| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 12:00 |
|
owen |
For our library, I'm talking about pretty simple stuff: like a framework with only 3 or 4 tags |
| 12:00 |
|
thd |
owen: the templates hide unneeded fields. |
| 12:01 |
|
owen |
Oh, you mean in setting up the subfields, right. |
| 12:01 |
|
thd |
owen: Or fields too. |
| 12:01 |
|
owen |
i guess I hadn't thought of that approach. |
| 12:03 |
|
thd |
owen: MARC records were meant to be exchanged between institutons, you can provide benefits to the user from the data in hidden fields without burdening the user with looking at that data directly in the editor or OPAC view. |
| 12:04 |
|
hdl |
thd : sure. I agree with you. |
| 12:04 |
|
owen |
But when I create a MARC record at my branch for a periodical that's going to get recycled in three months, I'm not going to do more than add information in a couple of tags. |
| 12:05 |
|
thd |
owen: When copy cataloguing you can get the benifit of someone elses hard work, without lokking at the details. |
| 12:06 |
|
thd |
owen: Would you not have a record for the serial title where you are only changing issue information? |
| 12:06 |
|
hdl |
That's where Z3950 clients and servers are important ;) |
| 12:07 |
|
owen |
thd: because Koha doesn't handle serials well enough to use it in our library |
| 12:07 |
|
thd |
hdl: exactly, no one should ever need to create his own records if better ones are available elsewhere a few key strokes away. |
| 12:08 |
|
hdl |
Sure, but Frameworks are a way to display information cleverly and usefully. |
| 12:09 |
|
owen |
Okay, so even with the choice of hiding tags instead of deleting them in a new framework, I still have the problem of having to go in and edit possibly dozens of tags |
| 12:09 |
|
thd |
owen: what serials defecit are you referring too. Koha is missing some the good holdings fields from the MARC21 framework. The should be put in the framework by default. |
| 12:09 |
|
hdl |
thd : OK. |
| 12:10 |
|
owen |
Koha can keep track of issues, but you can't attach item information to individual issues, so they can't circulate |
| 12:10 |
|
hdl |
But Owen says he needs only 3 or 4 tags.. |
| 12:10 |
|
hdl |
that's why he asks for a facility in editing a new framework. |
| 12:11 |
|
hdl |
Frameworks are a powerfull feature in Koha. |
| 12:11 |
|
thd |
owen: I see the problem now. |
| 12:12 |
|
thd |
owen: The defect is how Koha treats items for holdings in that case. |
| 12:12 |
|
hdl |
But USMARC is far more richer than the needs of any library, or only for powerfull library which have dozens of cataloguers ;) |
| 12:13 |
|
hdl |
No he merely asked me to make a checkbox in create a new framework.... |
| 12:13 |
|
hdl |
I sould simply do this. |
| 12:13 |
|
thd |
hdl: you can take advantage of the power within the system yet hide the details from the user. |
| 12:14 |
|
thd |
hdl: since you do not have to create your own records but just modify 3 or 4 fields. |
| 12:14 |
|
hdl |
Yes But then, it is a setting issue, not a developpment one. |
| 12:16 |
|
hdl |
We should have good and up-to-date default frameworks in any language... And would be able to choose from the tags which one are valuable. |
| 12:16 |
|
hdl |
But that's another story/problem.... |
| 12:16 |
|
thd |
It should only be a settings issue but the most detailed serials holdings fields are missing from the framework |
| 12:17 |
|
hdl |
which ones ? |
| 12:18 |
|
hdl |
In Unimarc, they are in. |
| 12:18 |
|
hdl |
;) |
| 12:18 |
|
thd |
items should be able to identify an issue of a serial so that the rest of the infromation is obtained from the main MARC record for the title. |
| 12:18 |
|
hdl |
UNIMARC norm is a 600 pages book. I think USMARC is the same . |
| 12:19 |
|
hdl |
I worked on 4XX links in UNIMARC... ;) |
| 12:19 |
|
hdl |
I don't know USMARC normalization. |
| 12:20 |
|
thd |
hdl: UNIMARC does not have comparable holdings field for the bibliographic format to those in MARC21. This has been a problem for academic libraries in France. |
| 12:21 |
|
hdl |
thd : 4XX fields have now two ways : Copy information or simply link to another biblio. |
| 12:21 |
|
hdl |
IMO, it is basically the same as what you tell holding fields. |
| 12:21 |
|
thd |
hdl: recommendation 995 is not good for machine reading of missing issues, or years, and varient electonic database holdings. |
| 12:21 |
|
hdl |
Or is there a difference ? |
| 12:22 |
|
hdl |
I don't speak about items. That's another pb. |
| 12:22 |
|
thd |
thd goes to check the documentation |
| 12:22 |
|
hdl |
But about serials and detailing articles in them. |
| 12:23 |
|
hdl |
thd : owuld you mind providing me with a USMARC complete doc ? |
| 12:29 |
|
thd |
hdl: do UNIMARC records detail articles in journals as opposed to other types of serials? |
| 12:30 |
|
hdl |
No. |
| 12:31 |
|
hdl |
in UNIMARC, you can have 4 levels of details.... |
| 12:31 |
|
thd |
hdl: http://www.loc.gov/marc/ has concise formats for MARC21 for bibligraphic and other formats as well as some simple explanations. |
| 12:31 |
|
hdl |
thx. |
| 12:36 |
|
hdl |
To Continue 19:32 You can have an article linked to an issue linked to the serial.... Each of these parts woul be a biblio, but with more and more detailed information. |
| 12:36 |
|
thd |
hdl: http://www.itsmarc.com/crs/CRS0000.htm is a copy of more detailed manuals from LC with free access where LC charges a fee for access to the same material. The content, however, if not the display system, is public domain in the US. |
| 12:39 |
|
hdl |
thx. |
| 12:40 |
|
thd |
hdl: MARC21 allows for the same but it is little used. However, I believe cataloguing practise in continental Europe often creates separate records for each volume in a set or series instead of one as is common using AACR. |
| 12:41 |
|
hdl |
But how is it achieve to catalogue an article then ? |
| 12:42 |
|
hdl |
If a person would make a search, wouldn't the search only look at titles and then ...???? |
| 12:43 |
|
hdl |
Or is it coped with by the use of SeeAlso fields ? |
| 12:50 |
|
thd |
hdl: articles in journals are linked with OpenURL resolvers. OpenURL resolvers need detailed holdings information. |
| 12:51 |
|
thd |
Koha MARC21 framework is missing, amongst others, fields 853-865 for detailed holdings information. |
| 12:55 |
|
thd |
Koha MARC21 fromework has text holdings fields that are easy for humans to read but difficult for computers to parse. Fields 853-865 can be difficult for humans to read and must be no fun to catalogue without good supporting software. |
| 13:06 |
|
thd |
hdl: Serials and books can have detailed contents specified in MARC21 but that level of cataloguing is unusual and almost never done for journal articles where indexing and abstracting databases together with OpenURL address that problem. Some libraries may routinely catalogue multi-author contents for non-journal serials and books, and that is becoming easier with that information sometimes encoded in an ONYX file from the publisher. Those |
| 13:06 |
|
thd |
extra hard working libraries would be the ones to copy catalogue from with your z39.50 search :) |
| 13:29 |
|
Ryanbisd |
is kohas marc records system setup for any specific marc database type? |
| 13:29 |
|
Ryanbisd |
(not marc21 or unimarc) but the way the fields are displayed? |
| 13:45 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: We were just discussing a closely related issue. |
| 13:46 |
|
thd |
owen: If I want field XXX to appear in the MARC editor I must change the template, right? |
| 13:46 |
|
owen |
You have to edit the framework |
| 13:47 |
|
thd |
owen: I see the setting for make visible in the framework, but that changes nothing for me. |
| 13:49 |
|
Ryanbisd |
also, are holdings stored in the marc information? |
| 13:51 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: They should be stored there in the 8XX fields for MARC21. |
| 13:52 |
|
Ryanbisd |
humm.. foir some reason, either the marc magician isnt adding them, or koha isnt reading it right... |
| 13:52 |
|
owen |
thd: I'm not sure what you mean by 'making visible in the framework' |
| 13:52 |
|
Ryanbisd |
also, is there a step that I run after bulkimport.pl? |
| 13:52 |
|
owen |
You have to set the 'tab' value for the tag's subfields in marc_subfield_structure.pl |
| 13:53 |
|
Ryanbisd |
in our follett export program, its like it keeps the call number and barcodes seperate from the actual marc record |
| 13:54 |
|
Ryanbisd |
but, it appears in the marc record viewer......... aggravating me |
| 13:54 |
|
owen |
Ryanbisd: I think it's fairly common for systems to store "item information" separately from the MARC record |
| 13:55 |
|
thd |
owen: I have not looked for a while, as I had been concentrating on other issues. If changing the marc_subfield_structure.pl is necessary then it is a user friendly task with a nice interface :) |
| 13:55 |
|
Ryanbisd |
does koha store it seperatley? |
| 13:56 |
|
owen |
Koha stores it both in the MARC record and in other tables in the database. |
| 13:56 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: what type of file are the call number and barcodes in for your export from Follet? |
| 13:56 |
|
owen |
So you do you have to have a place for them in the MARC record. |
| 13:56 |
|
owen |
But for most operations Koha refers to the 'items' or 'biblioitems' tables. |
| 13:57 |
|
Ryanbisd |
It should export them all in one file... |
| 13:57 |
|
Ryanbisd |
but I cant tell if it does or not... |
| 13:58 |
|
owen |
Ryanbisd: It could very well be that Follette *won't* export them for you all in one file. |
| 13:58 |
|
owen |
I wouldn't be so surprised if it didn't. |
| 13:59 |
|
Ryanbisd |
see, but we have a 3rd party exporter we use called Marc Magician that should let us.. |
| 13:59 |
|
Ryanbisd |
it gives the information, just not as a Marc record entry |
| 13:59 |
|
Ryanbisd |
as far as I know, I cant view the file.... |
| 14:01 |
|
Ryanbisd |
but, under "export options" it lists several different database types (I assume) such as Follett, Libraryzone, etc, etc. |
| 14:02 |
|
thd |
Koha uses the local use 952 field by default as the field linked for items. |
| 14:04 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: The export options in MARC Magician, are they for the format you are exporting from or the format you are exporting to. |
| 14:05 |
|
tim |
I exported MARC records from a Follett system a few years back. |
| 14:06 |
|
thd |
tim: How did you go about that task? |
| 14:06 |
|
Ryanbisd |
both |
| 14:06 |
|
tim |
Their records weren't very complicated, but if I remember right, the copy information was in the 852 tags. |
| 14:06 |
|
thd |
tim: What software did you use for export? |
| 14:07 |
|
tim |
I can't remember a darn thing about how I did anything with it. |
| 14:07 |
|
tim |
It was an old DOS based version. |
| 14:07 |
|
thd |
tim: :) |
| 14:07 |
|
tim |
I just went in one day to help them get their records out so they could switch to a different system. |
| 14:08 |
|
tim |
Looked kinda cool in a klunky sorta way :) |
| 14:08 |
|
thd |
At least everything runs faster in MSDOS than MSWindows. |
| 14:08 |
|
Ryanbisd |
I am installing marc magician right now, so once its setup, I can give you some more info.. |
| 14:08 |
|
tim |
Yup. Windows woulda choked trying to do the same work on that system. |
| 14:10 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: You should export into the standard MARC communications format. I have not used MARC Magician for many years. |
| 14:10 |
|
tim |
I'd think the best thing would be to try to export directly from Follett if you can. |
| 14:11 |
|
tim |
thd: I missed a question. I exported directly from Follett. |
| 14:11 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: I believe it allowed you to map any field and subfield combination to any other so you could taylor a conversion from one system to another. |
| 14:13 |
|
Ryanbisd |
what is the barcode field and dewey for koha? |
| 14:13 |
|
thd |
MARC Magician maybe a useful tool even if you use Follet directly to export the data initially. |
| 14:14 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: barcoce is 952 $p by default |
| 14:15 |
|
tim |
I chucked the call number into 952 $a because Athena had it split into a pile of 852 subfields. Dunno what's the best place to put it. |
| 14:16 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: look at system preferences MARC lincs items http://"your base admin address"/cgi-bin/koha/admin/koha2marclinks.pl |
| 14:18 |
|
thd |
A pile of 852 subfields would be good but Koha has to be designed and/or setup to use them. |
| 14:20 |
|
tim |
We have what Athena calls the prefix, main, cutter and suffix. I put 'em all together into one tag for Koha. |
| 14:22 |
|
Ryanbisd |
alright, Marc Magician is asking me to choose which kind of holding I want to use. |
| 14:22 |
|
thd |
tim: Koha should understand how to assemble the constituent parts correctly but I guess it does not yet. |
| 14:22 |
|
Ryanbisd |
Alexandria |
| 14:22 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: what are the options |
| 14:22 |
|
Ryanbisd |
athena |
| 14:22 |
|
Ryanbisd |
dynix |
| 14:22 |
|
Ryanbisd |
follet plus 4.1 |
| 14:22 |
|
Ryanbisd |
5.0 |
| 14:22 |
|
Ryanbisd |
unison |
| 14:22 |
|
Ryanbisd |
library pro 2.2 |
| 14:23 |
|
Ryanbisd |
library world 2.2 |
| 14:23 |
|
Ryanbisd |
mandarin EZ transfer |
| 14:23 |
|
Ryanbisd |
852 qith 1 part call number |
| 14:23 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: Is this for the source file or the destination file? |
| 14:26 |
|
Ryanbisd |
it didnt say... Im assuming how to read the records.... it was used just during the initial setup |
| 14:26 |
|
Ryanbisd |
Im importing the records now... once thats done I will let you know what the info says |
| 14:27 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: While you were diconnected you missed 2 ansers I had given you to earlier questions. |
| 14:27 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: barcode is 952 $p by default in Koha |
| 14:28 |
|
Ryanbisd |
cool... |
| 14:28 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: look at system preferences : MARC links : items, http://"your base admin address"/cgi-bin/koha/admin/koha2marclinks.pl |
| 14:31 |
|
Ryanbisd |
what do you want me to look for there? |
| 14:33 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: that shows you the items table mappings to MARC |
| 14:33 |
|
Ryanbisd |
alright... I have my Marc DB up in Marc Magician. |
| 14:33 |
|
Ryanbisd |
now.. from the main view it shoes the call number and barcode.. |
| 14:34 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: the biblioitems table has the call number. |
| 14:34 |
|
Ryanbisd |
but, when I click on the records it doesnt show this information in the actual marc record |
| 14:35 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: there is a selection box for choosing the table at that URL above. |
| 14:36 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: Are you now referring to Koha or MARC Magician? |
| 14:36 |
|
Ryanbisd |
sorry, marc magician |
| 14:37 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: do you have the option of mapping the information to a MARC field and subfield for export |
| 14:38 |
|
Ryanbisd |
im not sure, hold on |
| 14:40 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: For default Koha behaviour, call number to 942 $k and map barcode to 952 $p. |
| 14:43 |
|
Ryanbisd |
alright, our marc records set the dewey up to 900a |
| 14:45 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: Is the complete call number in 900 $a ? |
| 14:45 |
|
Ryanbisd |
yes |
| 14:45 |
|
Ryanbisd |
im tyring to see if it will export it to 942 $k |
| 14:47 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: Check each of the tables at http://"your base admin address"/cgi-bin/koha/admin/koha2marclinks.pl to be sure the data you will import matches or edit the field in Koha to remap to whatever you import into Koha. |
| 14:49 |
|
Ryanbisd |
alright, so, where in koha do i go to add 900.a |
| 14:49 |
|
Ryanbisd |
when I go to dewey, it doesnt have that as an option. |
| 14:49 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: There is more to consider than just the call number and barcode. You need a biblionumber and biblioitem as a key. I have not done a system conversion for Koha yet so I am not the best one to advise about all the issues. |
| 14:52 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: Dewey has nothing by default for Koha, however, classification is mapped to 942 $k |
| 14:52 |
|
Ryanbisd |
I see that, but there is no option to 900 a |
| 14:53 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: You need someone more familiar with Koha than I to distinguish the use of dewey and classification in Koha. |
| 14:54 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: You would need to edit the MARC framework and add 900 $a |
| 14:54 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: 9XX are local use fields. 900 is not defined by default in Koha. |
| 14:57 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: Edit the biblio framework from system preferences : biblio framework |
| 14:59 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: After following the link for MARC structure you would be at http://"your base admin address"/cgi-bin/koha/admin/marctagstructure.pl?frameworkcode= |
| 15:00 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: Add tag is at the bottom of the page. |
| 15:08 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: Do your records have a unique control number in field 001? |
| 15:09 |
|
Ryanbisd |
yup |
| 15:11 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: you should be sure that the Koha MARC framework includes any field you have in your records so that Koha has the information. You may need to add the fixed fields 001 to 008. They are not part of the default Koha MARC framework yet. |
| 15:15 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: 001 could be used for the biblioitemnumber field in the biblioitems table instead of the Koha default 090 $d. |
| 15:16 |
|
Ryanbisd |
You wanna look at my marc records?? hahah |
| 15:17 |
|
Ryanbisd |
i dont understand why it shows the barcode info in the main view... |
| 15:17 |
|
Ryanbisd |
but in the marc view it desnt show it.. |
| 15:17 |
|
Ryanbisd |
but, its all comming from the same darn file |
| 15:18 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: I think that is a template issue. Owen is disconnected, too bad. |
| 15:19 |
|
tim |
Athena won't show the tags used for copy information in MARC view. I just figured with both acting that way that it was a feature. |
| 15:20 |
|
thd |
tim: what file does the user have to modify for a different functionality in Koha for the MARC view and other views? |
| 15:21 |
|
Ryanbisd |
thats what it is... |
| 15:21 |
|
Ryanbisd |
if I knew what template it was, it would show up.. |
| 15:21 |
|
thd |
tim: to see fields hidden by default, which files should be modified? |
| 15:22 |
|
tim |
thd: I'm just finally getting somewhere with this. I still don't know much about making any changes. |
| 15:23 |
|
tim |
But I think you'd need to change the MARC mappings. |
| 15:23 |
|
tim |
If I'm understanding the question. |
| 15:24 |
|
Ryanbisd |
yeah... I can go thru the whole list in marc magician, and find barcode. |
| 15:25 |
|
tim |
Where's the barcode tag in your records? |
| 15:26 |
|
tim |
You'd want to map that tag to items.barcode |
| 15:26 |
|
thd |
Owen said in answer to changing which fields appear in the MARC editor that, "You have to set the 'tab' value for the tag's subfields in marc_subfield_structure.pl." |
| 15:28 |
|
tim |
Yeah. You need to add the subfields to a tab. |
| 15:28 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd said that barcodes were in 900 $a on the Follet system. |
| 15:29 |
|
thd |
oops that was the call number |
| 15:30 |
|
Ryanbisd |
i have no idea where the barcode tag is... |
| 15:30 |
|
Ryanbisd |
its shows up, but it doesnt show up in the tag |
| 15:31 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: did you find no export option in MARC magician to put the barcode in a field and subfield of you choice? |
| 15:31 |
|
Ryanbisd |
i would have to know the field it was stored in first.. |
| 15:32 |
|
tim |
Is there somplace on the net where you can put some records so we can grab the file and take a look at it? |
| 15:32 |
|
Ryanbisd |
yeah.. .hold up |
| 15:32 |
|
tim |
Just a small sample |
| 15:33 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: If you export a record and inspect where the barcode appears, then you should know as long as the barcode is exported. |
| 15:37 |
|
thd |
owen: what files need to be modified for changing what fields appera for various views? Is it just the *.pl file for a particular view? |
| 15:39 |
|
owen |
Are you talking about pages like detail.pl? |
| 15:39 |
|
thd |
owen: yes |
| 15:40 |
|
owen |
Sometimes the variables are made available by the script, but not included in the template. Other times the script and template both must be changed. |
| 15:40 |
|
owen |
Are you thinking of anything in particular? |
| 15:40 |
|
Ryanbisd |
www.bsaclaims.com/~ryan/marctest.oo1 |
| 15:40 |
|
Ryanbisd |
opps... 001 |
| 15:41 |
|
thd |
owen: Ryanbisd asked a related question when you were disconnected |
| 15:41 |
|
Ryanbisd |
those are 10 marc records |
| 15:43 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: Have these records been modified by MARC Magician or are they direct from Follett? |
| 15:45 |
|
Ryanbisd |
they came from marc magician |
| 15:45 |
|
Ryanbisd |
but havent been altered. |
| 15:53 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: what is the barcode for one of those appearing in the set you exported? |
| 15:57 |
|
owen |
Ryanbisd: the lack of barcode/item information in detail.pl is a bug in the NPL template |
| 15:58 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: You should define the leader as field 000 for the MARC framework and fixed fields 001 to 008 make best use of your records losslessly in Koha. A default should already be provided but it is not. |
| 15:59 |
|
Ryanbisd |
t0060186 |
| 15:59 |
|
Ryanbisd |
that was the barcode for Woog, Adam |
| 15:59 |
|
thd |
owen: Why were the leader and the other fixed fields left out of the default MARC framework for Koha? |
| 16:00 |
|
owen |
Got me. |
| 16:01 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: Your barcodes are in 852 $p |
| 16:01 |
|
thd |
owen: What system was NPL using before Koha? |
| 16:02 |
|
owen |
Spydus. Now called Civica, I think? |
| 16:03 |
|
thd |
owen: what happened to your leader and 001-008 fixed field information after conversion to Koha? |
| 16:05 |
|
owen |
I don't know |
| 16:09 |
|
owen |
I'm not a cataloging expert, so it wasn't on my radar |
| 16:09 |
|
thd |
owen: It vanished into the ether or stayed in the backup set of data from prior to the Koha conversion if you did not add fields 000-008 to your MARC framework. |
| 16:10 |
|
owen |
Okay. |
| 16:10 |
|
owen |
was that a quiz? :) |
| 16:11 |
|
thd |
owen: there is a lot of useful and required information in those fields. Koha should be exploiting that information not making it vanish, although, the user never needs to see it in raw format. |
| 16:12 |
|
thd |
owen: no, I just imagined that with circa 350,000 records you would have added to the framework to preserve the information in Koha at the time of conversion. |
| 16:13 |
|
thd |
owen: Is circa 350,000 records correct? |
| 16:13 |
|
Ryanbisd |
sweet... |
| 16:13 |
|
Ryanbisd |
so, what does that me that I do now? |
| 16:13 |
|
Ryanbisd |
ahahah |
| 16:14 |
|
owen |
300k items, not records |
| 16:15 |
|
Ryanbisd |
I have my barcodes set to 852p in kohamarclinks.pl |
| 16:16 |
|
Ryanbisd |
do I need to rerum bulmarcimport? |
| 16:16 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: You should do what NPL may not have done, and define the leader as 000 and fixed fields 001-008 in the MARC framework to preserve and use that information. |
| 16:19 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: you need to discover how your system treats multiple copies of the same bibliographic manifestation. Do they each have their own MARC record? |
| 16:20 |
|
Ryanbisd |
no, I dont belive so. |
| 16:21 |
|
Ryanbisd |
actually, I think they do |
| 16:21 |
|
thd |
owen: how many separate records do you have for circa 300,000 items? |
| 16:21 |
|
Ryanbisd |
now that I look at them |
| 16:21 |
|
owen |
When I count(biblionumber) from biblio I get 146685 |
| 16:23 |
|
thd |
Owen: do you delete the records for the recycled serial issues or just hide them from view? |
| 16:23 |
|
owen |
Delete |
| 16:25 |
|
owen |
I'm not sure how those numbers add up, though, because they would imply that we have a lot of biblios with no items attached. |
| 16:25 |
|
Ryanbisd |
alright, I have barcode set for 852p... |
| 16:25 |
|
Ryanbisd |
do I need to reimport the marcs |
| 16:25 |
|
thd |
owen: :) |
| 16:25 |
|
Ryanbisd |
or should that info just appear now? |
| 16:26 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: Have you already imported all your records? |
| 16:26 |
|
Ryanbisd |
well, just the ones that im using right now, yes |
| 16:26 |
|
Ryanbisd |
but I can re-import them if need be |
| 16:28 |
|
tim |
rebuildnonmarc.pl should fix things up after the change shouldn't it? |
| 16:28 |
|
thd |
owen: Does Koha automatically assign an incremented value for biblionumber and itemnumber when importing with bulkmarcimport ? |
| 16:30 |
|
thd |
owen: ... where itemnumber would be set to 1? |
| 16:30 |
|
owen |
I haven't used bulkmarcimport myself, but I assume it must have to |
| 16:30 |
|
Ryanbisd |
should I try that rebuildmarc.pl? |
| 16:31 |
|
Ryanbisd |
and, will that put it in to my inventory? |
| 16:31 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: rebuildnonmarc sounds right and tim must know. I have never tried. |
| 16:32 |
|
Ryanbisd |
should I do that on the import file, or what? |
| 16:32 |
|
tim |
bulkmarcimport.pl will increment bilionumber and itemnumber for you. |
| 16:33 |
|
tim |
rebuildnonmarc.pl will just move things around in what's already loaded on your system. |
| 16:33 |
|
SteveL |
DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Column 'biblionumber' cannot be null at /home/ryan/koha-2.2.2/modules//C4/Biblio.pm line 1522. |
| 16:33 |
|
SteveL |
.DBD::mysql::db do failed: You have an error in your SQL syntax near '' at line 1 at ./rebuildnonmarc.pl line 98. |
| 16:33 |
|
Ryanbisd |
thats what we are getting |
| 16:34 |
|
Ryanbisd |
if you want to take a look at our settings in koha you can go to lib-intra.burlesonisd.net |
| 16:34 |
|
Ryanbisd |
theusername is kohaadmin |
| 16:34 |
|
Ryanbisd |
pw is temp123 |
| 16:39 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: had you checked whether system preferences MARC check was iwthout errors, before running any action? |
| 16:39 |
|
thd |
s/preferences/administration |
| 16:41 |
|
tim |
All this talk about fixed tags made me look for what was put in Koha. |
| 16:41 |
|
tim |
Our 008 tags were a mess and it made multiple 008 tags for a lot of the records with nothing in them. |
| 16:43 |
|
thd |
tim: Do you mean that your tags were a mess in your source records or that you added 008 to the Koha MARC framework and then the import went wrong for 008? |
| 16:44 |
|
tim |
The 008 tags were a mess before the import. Mostly a bunch of | characters causing Koha to start a new tag. |
| 16:44 |
|
tim |
I think these were the recordsthat were done by someone else to get us automated. |
| 16:44 |
|
thd |
tim: you should have used MARC lint first. |
| 16:45 |
|
tim |
It's just a test system, so I still have time. |
| 16:45 |
|
tim |
I just need to figure out how to use it :) |
| 16:46 |
|
thd |
tim: I only have valid copy catalogued records for my use so far, and therefore, I have not had to worry about that issue yet :) |
| 16:47 |
|
tim |
Ours were supposed to be valid copy catalgued records. |
| 16:48 |
|
tim |
But it was a free retro-conversion, so I guess we can't complain a whole lot. |
| 16:48 |
|
tim |
And since it's 8 or 9 years after the fact.... |
| 16:49 |
|
tim |
I'll look it up. Is it the MARC::lint perl module you're talking about? |
| 16:50 |
|
Ryanbisd |
im just re-running bulkmarcimport.pl |
| 16:50 |
|
tim |
If it is. It looks like I already have it, so all I need is to figure out how to use it. |
| 16:50 |
|
Ryanbisd |
that should put in the added barcode info, right? |
| 16:51 |
|
thd |
tim: yes |
| 16:51 |
|
tim |
Thanks. I'll look into that. |
| 16:52 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: you have an error in your configuration |
| 16:52 |
|
Ryanbisd |
? |
| 16:52 |
|
tim |
Ryanbisd: did you use the d option with bulkmarcimport.pl? That clears your records and starts fresh. |
| 16:52 |
|
Ryanbisd |
yeah, we did |
| 16:52 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: item fields ALL items fields MUST : |
| 16:52 |
|
thd |
* be mapped to the same tag, |
| 16:52 |
|
thd |
* and they must all be in the 10 (items) tab |
| 16:53 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: that is from MARC Checks in System Administration |
| 16:53 |
|
Ryanbisd |
are you talking about the biblonumber? |
| 16:53 |
|
Ryanbisd |
because I changed that back |
| 16:54 |
|
Ryanbisd |
its importing the records |
| 16:55 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: What did you change it back to? MARC check still shows the same error message for your system. |
| 16:56 |
|
Ryanbisd |
I changed the biblonumber back to the same as the biblioitemnumber |
| 16:56 |
|
Ryanbisd |
i had accidently changed it to nothing earlier |
| 16:57 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: you should hve no errors before you import any records or things will not work right |
| 16:57 |
|
Ryanbisd |
alright... |
| 16:58 |
|
Ryanbisd |
alright... |
| 16:58 |
|
Ryanbisd |
what does that error mean exactly? |
| 16:59 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: I do not know what happens if you import without a validated set of tables. |
| 17:00 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: It seems to be complaining of an improper mapping for itemnumber in the items table. |
| 17:02 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: If you imported with an invalid set of tables the results may be very unpredictable and it may be easier to drop the database and start fresh than fix an error that cannot be fixed but I do not know. |
| 17:02 |
|
Ryanbisd |
what is the items tab? |
| 17:02 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: I believe that means items table. |
| 17:02 |
|
Ryanbisd |
alright... we are out for today!!! |
| 17:03 |
|
Ryanbisd |
continue this tomorrow..... |
| 17:03 |
|
Ryanbisd |
thanks guys |
| 17:04 |
|
kados |
msg rach so that's about 1,600 US eh? |
| 17:04 |
|
kados |
oops ;-) |
| 17:06 |
|
rach |
:-) |
| 18:01 |
|
ryanbisd |
"guess whos back.... back again" |
| 18:05 |
|
thd |
ryanbisd: yes |
| 18:05 |
|
ryanbisd |
im just hangin out in here... |
| 18:05 |
|
ryanbisd |
no questions rigt now... |
| 18:05 |
|
ryanbisd |
my brain is super fried |
| 18:07 |
|
thd |
ryansbisd: best to supercool your brain before extra strain :) |
| 18:10 |
|
ryanbisd |
I know... |
| 18:11 |
|
ryanbisd |
Im fairly new to linux, and all that encompasses that.. |
| 18:11 |
|
ryanbisd |
and I have NO idea about anything library oritnets |
| 18:11 |
|
ryanbisd |
oriented |
| 18:11 |
|
ryanbisd |
so.. |
| 18:22 |
|
Genji |
morning all. |
| 18:22 |
|
Genji |
its 11:22. |
| 18:23 |
|
Genji |
anyone know the maximum length of characters a textarea can hold? |
| 18:25 |
|
Genji |
indradg: know the maximum length of characters a textarea can hold? |
| 18:27 |
|
thd |
Genji: are you aking an HTML question? |
| 18:27 |
|
Genji |
yup |
| 18:28 |
|
Genji |
When using the get method to send data to an HTTP server, the amount |
| 18:28 |
|
Genji |
of data that can be sent is limited by the maximum length of a URL. |
| 18:28 |
|
Genji |
In this case the URL cannot be longer than 2048 bytes." |
| 18:28 |
|
Genji |
so.. nevermind. |
| 18:30 |
|
Genji |
guess i might have to use a browser push for importing stocktake data. |
| 18:34 |
|
Genji |
oooh.. looks easy. |
| 18:36 |
|
thd |
Genji: what was the new feature you were implementing? |
| 18:37 |
|
thd |
Genji: with the shelf barcode for Koha |
| 18:42 |
|
Genji |
its for stocktaking/loading books onto bookshelves. |
| 18:43 |
|
Genji |
Stocktaking barcode scanner, you scan the bookshelf barcode, then the books... bookshelf barcode, then the books. |
| 18:43 |
|
Genji |
So, you have this big file, with shelf barcode, then books following it. |
| 18:43 |
|
thd |
Genji: where is the shelf barcode stored? |
| 18:43 |
|
Genji |
in bookshelf.barcode |
| 18:44 |
|
Genji |
also... items has items.physicalshelf |
| 18:44 |
|
Genji |
which is a number that goes to bookshelf.shelfnumber |
| 18:49 |
|
thd |
Genji: did you change the templates so that they appear to the user? |
| 18:52 |
|
Genji |
haven't finished the feature yet. but on my copy, proof of concept is http://opac.genjimoto.is-a-gee[…]etail.pl?bib=2979 |
| 18:55 |
|
thd |
Genji: I assume the shelf barcode is not visible there |
| 18:55 |
|
Genji |
did you look? |
| 18:56 |
|
Genji |
hmm... anyway.. why would an opac user need to know the shelf barcode? They wouldn't really. |
| 18:56 |
|
thd |
Genji: Yes I looked but, I did not know how to identify what you had added from the labels at that URL |
| 18:57 |
|
thd |
Genji: a shelf barcode could suport a map of eactly where to find the book |
| 18:57 |
|
Genji |
oh.. hold on. wierd.... hmm... gimme one second. |
| 18:58 |
|
thd |
Genji: I read abbout someone hacking that feature onto an Innovative Interfaces ILS |
| 19:01 |
|
Genji |
k. take a look at the url again. |
| 19:02 |
|
thd |
Genji: a map of the shelving system keyed to the items gives you an exact location that can be signified with a mark |
| 19:02 |
|
Genji |
for most koha libraries, they use the itemtype as a physical representation. |
| 19:02 |
|
Genji |
hmmm..... interesting.. a visual map.... |
| 19:03 |
|
thd |
Genji: What should I see at the URL? |
| 19:03 |
|
Genji |
the second item should show a location in brackets. |
| 19:04 |
|
thd |
Genji: yes it had but it did not seem like a shelf designation so I was confused |
| 19:05 |
|
Genji |
err.. its in the location field.... |
| 19:05 |
|
Genji |
its where the callnumber field would show, if it did have acallnumber. |
| 19:06 |
|
thd |
Genji: I had seen that origianlly, It just confused me when I saw room istead of shelf. |
| 19:08 |
|
Genji |
ya. we have two rooms in our library. the Meditation room (hardly gets used for meditation anymore) and the hall. |
| 19:10 |
|
thd |
Genji: Browsing shelves remotely would be nice. There are may ways what you have done could be extended for novel features. |
| 19:11 |
|
Genji |
so, yes, the physical shelves will be remotely browsable. |
| 19:13 |
|
thd |
Genji: Would need a search by shelf feature with an forward and previous link for adjacent shelves. |
| 19:19 |
|
Genji |
hmm... could be done. |
| 19:46 |
|
Genji |
might want to create a totally new table, though. one with pointers to previous and next shelf. |
| 19:46 |
|
Genji |
so.. it would be like.... shelfname, category, barcode, previous, next |
| 19:47 |
|
thd |
unfortunately I have to depart a few minutes ago |
| 21:50 |
|
jo |
Chris - are you about. |
| 21:50 |
|
chris |
yep jo |
| 21:50 |
|
jo |
hiya |
| 21:50 |
|
jo |
i'm typingin hlt for you |
| 22:14 |
|
ryanbisd |
whats up guys |
| 07:32 |
|
Ryanbisd |
mornin guys |
| 07:44 |
|
mason |
hi ryan, whatcha up to? |
| 09:43 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: Do you have everything reloaded in Koha? |
| 10:02 |
|
Ryanbisd |
I never figured out what the errors meant to change |
| 10:02 |
|
Ryanbisd |
should I delete the DB and start over? |
| 10:02 |
|
Ryanbisd |
not just the data, but the whole DB, and rebuild it |
| 10:22 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: If you do not find an obvious source of the error, I think it might be less time and trouble to delete the database and start again from the point where I imagine your are in your tests. The warning about not doing anything without passing MARC check is very strong and just maybe you will have invalid data trapped somewhere in the database otherwise, but I have no detailed knowledge to use as a basis of judgement. |
| 10:30 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: Just be sure that "System Administration : MARC Check" is good before importing again. Also, if you make configuration changes that might affect database integrity, then it seems prudent to use MARC Check before working with data. |
| 10:35 |
|
thd |
Ryanbisd: The problem you might have attempting to only purge data at this point is that you maybe unable to purge some data because it does not have a properly identified key unless you use the database directly and know exactly where to find all the data. Unpurged data might cause strange problems. |
| 10:44 |
|
thd |
Genji: are you still there? |
