IRC log for #koha, 2020-04-22

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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00:23 tuxayo hayley: Too bad. You can't even break in because our Jenkins is well updated :P
00:25 hayley dang it! lol
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01:03 oleonard How can we still, after all these years, have too many ways to make pagination happen
01:11 philor banish all the ones that don't have an All choice, that would be a good start
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02:00 philor fun, I wonder what that bug was
02:01 philor 2015-12-30, someone on my production system created a bib record for Star Wars IV, and AutoCreateAuthorities seems to have created a couple hundred each for at least Carrie Fisher and George Lucas
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04:02 * philor has never actually seen "one tab plus one space" indentation before
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06:34 reiveune hello
06:43 magnuse \o/
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06:52 alex_a Bonjour
06:52 wahanui bonjour, alex_a
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08:33 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 25223: Make join of aqbasket and aqorders explicit <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]13f4f5177f69797d1>
08:33 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 20501: Don't cut strings when unhighlighting in intranet search results <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]1e3bd74f904a1e4f8>
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09:05 Null404 Hello there, I have a question: Koha 19.11 work better on  Ubuntu 16.04 LTS or Ubuntu 18.04 LTS ?
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09:09 davidnind Null404: Ubuntu 18.04 LTS recommended I think (see https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]i/Koha_on_Debian) or Debian 9. Debian 10 is mostly working now, bt not sure exactly where that is at at the moment.
09:10 Null404 okay
09:10 Null404 thank you for information
09:11 davidnind :)
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09:39 lari Joubu: thx for the sign off, cool to see my old bugs moving
09:40 lari & rebase
09:40 Joubu I only rebased the patches
09:40 Joubu and I asked a question :)
09:43 lari oh indeed i take my thanks back then :)
09:43 lari kidding
09:43 lari but we might have some follow-ups in koha finland repo
09:43 lari let me see
09:44 lari it's been in production for 3 years or so for us
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09:50 lari there is one by Olli https://github.com/KohaSuomi/K[…]8d528afb8f0d93283
09:50 Null404 I have a one question - how to update KOHA 18.11 to 19.11 ?
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09:57 davidnind Null404: Ask away, and if someone is around who knows the answer they will hopefully respond (I've no experience with upgrades, so will probably not be much help...)
09:59 Null404 I tried $sudo apt-get install koha-common but its only updates to newest version of KOHA18
10:02 cait1 Null404: it depens on how you installed it
10:03 Null404 is on Ubuntu 18 LTS
10:03 cait1 do you know how yours was installed? There are some options, likely it#s a pacakge installation
10:03 Null404 I think it was  pacakge installation
10:04 davidnind See what version you are following in your /etc/apt/sources.list.d/koha.list --> https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]version_to_follow
10:05 davidnind It is probably set to oldoldstable  or 18.11
10:05 Null404 okay
10:05 cait1 waht davidnind said :)
10:06 davidnind (hopes you are testing the upgrade on a test system, or have made backups of database and any local files required)
10:06 cait1 you need to check what your sources are set to and change that to what you want - for 19.11 "stable" or even 19.11 (so you don't get the 20.05 update right away)
10:06 cait1 we are only one month to reelease of 20.05 and I thnk stable will move then
10:06 Null404 @davidnind first I want to update on test system
10:06 huginn Null404: I've exhausted my database of quotes
10:06 cait1 davidnind++
10:07 davidnind what cait1 said :)
10:07 cait1 always a good way to approach these things :)
10:07 davidnind Null404: excellent!
10:07 wahanui darn tootin' it is.
10:07 cait1 davidnind: btw, as you are here, thx for testing my patches!
10:07 Null404 so better to update from 18.11 to 20.05 ?
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10:07 davidnind cait1: no problem!
10:08 cait1 i'd wait
10:08 cait1 for 20.05
10:08 cait1 it will be released in may, 19.11 is probably more solid
10:08 cait1 especially if you haven't done this very often yet
10:08 Null404 but if my friend is using 17.11 he will also to wait fo 20.05 ?
10:09 Null404 I would like to update to more stable version
10:09 davidnind Null404: personally I would update to 19.11 and wait to update to 20.05 until after a couple of monthly maintenance releases
10:09 cait1 yep
10:09 Null404 yes, that sound nice idea David
10:10 cait1 jumping 2 versions (19.05, 19.11) will already give you lots of shiny new things to deal with :)
10:10 Null404 :)
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10:25 Null404 it is normal that teminal is thinking on "Upgrade to 19.11.01.001 done (Bug 23233 - Rename AllowItemsOnHoldCheckout syspref)" ?
10:25 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=23233 minor, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Pushed to oldstable , AllowItemsOnHoldCheckout is misnamed and should only work for for SIP-based checkouts
10:26 cait1 it's probably thinkingo n the next one
10:26 ashimema[m] it'll be working on the next pdate after that Null404.. which may well be a slow one
10:26 cait1 the output is printed after
10:27 Null404 next one is command prompt only
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10:28 Null404 oh, is moving on now
10:28 Null404 false alarm
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10:28 ashimema[m] patience is a virtue.. some of the updates are slow be nessecity
10:29 Null404 yes,  is updated successfully :)
10:30 Null404 I think
10:32 cait1 you might want to do a full reindex, it's not strictly mandatory, but if new indexes were added, this will help
10:32 cait1 to fill them
10:35 Null404 you mean ?
10:36 cait1 new search indixes
10:36 cait1 your index was built with the configuation of 18.11
10:37 cait1 so if we changed the configuation of how the search indexes are filled, the outcome might be a bit different after you reindex
10:37 cait1 for example, if we make a new field searchable for the search engine
10:37 Null404 oh I get it
10:39 Null404 OPAC design is reseted now
10:39 Null404 after update test server
10:42 Null404 I mean changed design
10:44 Null404 and  Polish characters have other font
10:44 Null404 like "ą ę ł ń" etc.
10:49 davidnind Maybe translations? https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]bian#Translations
10:49 davidnind Or is that in the search results?
10:50 Null404 in search results
10:50 cait1 yes, there was a layout update
10:50 Null404 like books / patrons name etc
10:50 cait1 but it shoudl not have reset your changes... where did you store them?
10:51 cait1 hm actually, the layout changes was before 18.11, so it be only your css missing
10:51 cait1 i think you might have used ane xternal css styleshee
10:51 cait1 t
10:51 Null404 in 18.11 OPAC have brown lines, now is all white and blue / black text
10:51 cait1 check the system preferences with "CSS"
10:51 cait1 if there is a patch in one
10:52 Null404 OpacAdditionalStylesheet is empty is stable version
10:52 cait1 it should have kept yoru config, i was going to see if maybe the file was removed by the update
10:52 cait1 also check opaclayoutstylesheet
10:53 cait1 mine reads: opac.css by default, if you had manual changes in there - the update might have overwritten them
10:53 cait1 better to always use yourown files and put them outside probably
10:53 Null404 in opaclayoutstylesheet is "opac.css" only
10:53 cait1 could it be that was edited?
10:54 cait1 oh
10:54 cait1 is your production system public?
10:54 Null404 I think it wan't edited, I don't know
10:54 Null404 yes
10:54 cait1 i might be able to see
10:54 Null404 how to pm ?
10:54 cait1 dependson your messenger
10:54 cait1 hm try /msg cait
10:54 cait1 well cait1 today it seems
10:55 Null404 okay
10:55 davidnind Also check OPACUserCSS
10:55 cait1 you might also be able to double click my name
10:55 Null404 OPACUserCSS is empty in both ones
10:55 cait1 yeah i thought so, it would not have changed with the update
10:55 cait1 we leave the database ones alone
10:57 Null404 "No such nick/channel: cait"  when I trying /msg cait
10:57 Null404 oh I forgot to add "1" sorry
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11:00 cait1 sorry, timeout :(
11:00 cait1 what i was going to do is
11:00 cait1 find soemthing that looks different
11:00 cait1 hit F12 to get the developer tools open
11:00 cait1 use the element inspector see the css it is affected by - and it will also tell you where it pulls that from
11:01 Null404 okay
11:01 cait1 a color might be a good thing to look for
11:02 cait1 koha standard has no brown, so that is likkely something done for your library
11:03 davidnind it also pays to clear the browser cache after an upgrade/update as well, but if you are using a different URL I don't think that will matter
11:03 Null404 hm.. good to know
11:04 Null404 before was "/opac-tmpl/bootstrap/css/opac.css" now is "/opac-tmpl/bootstrap/css/opac_19.1104000.css"
11:07 cait1 hm that is to be expected
11:07 cait1 we added the versions to avoid issues with the cache
11:07 davidnind right, finished for the evening ... now to see if I wake up in time for the development meeting!
11:07 cait1 you might want to compare the 2 opac.css files
11:08 cait1 davidnind: sleep well!
11:08 davidnind :)
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11:09 cait1 hm an Owen would be good to have now
11:09 cait1 oleonard-away: ping?
11:09 Null404 okay so I will look after this css file
11:10 cait1 it might be you just need to copy it on the other server - on theserver it's probably still named opac.css
11:10 cait1 because apache might be involved in what you see from outside
11:10 Null404 @cait1 do you know in what catalog I can find this file ?
11:10 huginn Null404: I suck
11:11 cait1 oleonard is a good person too to ask about the CSS stuf
11:11 cait1 you mean the path?
11:12 cait1 I am not sure, my paths in a dev environment are different from packages
11:12 Null404 yes
11:12 Null404 oh, okay
11:13 cait1 bootstrap/css will be the same
11:27 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 24183: (RM follow-up) Remove re-introduced UseKohaPlugins <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]e3cf9deb04bd91c80>
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11:55 oleonard I have been summoned
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11:56 oleonard Null404 still around?
12:04 magnuse Oak
12:04 Oak magnuse
12:05 Oak \o/
12:05 Oak How is everyone is these strange times.
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12:15 Null404 yes
12:15 Null404 @oleonard> yes
12:15 huginn Null404: I'll give you the answer as soon as RDA is ready
12:15 wahanui i already had it that way, huginn.
12:15 oleonard Were you having a CSS problem?
12:15 Null404 I think that css on test server wasn't set
12:16 Null404 I looking where I can find Css file
12:16 Null404 I mean file path location
12:16 Null404 to copy css file from main koha to test one
12:16 oleonard A custom css file?
12:16 Null404 now on test server OPAC is default one
12:16 Null404 yes
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12:46 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 25172: Add missing filter <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]2b4419c1fe5f3dea8>
12:46 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 25186: Fix accordion sections height in columns configuration page <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]88da13346c47d4d22>
12:46 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 25172: Identify and display possible problems on the about page <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]c3974a4efc6fbe3d7>
12:46 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 25172: Adjust tests <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]235cee1bc78a760e3>
12:46 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 25172: Remove _recheck_logfile <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]948291c77530609a1>
12:46 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 25172: Make Koha::Logger explode if init went wrong <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]c5f115769bf2c9f55>
12:46 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 5614: Organize 'patron' system preferences <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]e696ecbf762d7f584>
12:46 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 16962: Remove the use of "onclick" from serial collection template <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]55494f40227e43adf>
12:46 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 20816: Make SIP tests pass under ES <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]a3022ebda7492ff47>
12:46 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 20816: Add ability to define custom templated fields in SIP patron responses <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]1ca9c2bee70ca4f1a>
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12:57 oleonard philor: I posted a follow-up to Bug 25235, I hope you approve of the changes
12:57 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=25235 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, phil, Needs Signoff , Don't alert when replacing an authority record via Z39.50
13:00 oleonard Oh shoot I missed that there was a separate bug for addbiblio :(
13:00 oleonard Never mind
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14:26 wizzyrea hi
14:26 wahanui niihau, wizzyrea
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14:30 caroline_crazycatlady Is there a way through batch modification to change a topic_term authority record to a genre/form authority record?
14:30 caroline_crazycatlady I did a try by changing the 150 to a 155 and changing the value of 942a, but my authority record just disappeared... even after reindexing...
14:31 caroline_crazycatlady it's still in the db though
14:31 cait3 i think they still belong the wrong fframework then
14:31 cait3 as that is not in the MARC
14:31 ashimema[m] cait3 now
14:31 cait3 sorry
14:31 cait3 got a new vpn client installed (remotely) hoping it will help my disconnect issues
14:31 ashimema[m] :)
14:31 caroline_crazycatlady wow we have 4 caits now? are you cloning yourself to get more work done?
14:32 caroline_crazycatlady ok, so we can only do batch modifications within an authority type
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14:42 Joubu ashimema[m]: follow-up attached on bug 25172
14:42 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=25172 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to master , Koha::Logger init is failing silently
14:42 ashimema[m] awesome, thanks dude
14:44 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 25172: Fix Auth_with_ldap.t <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]a6d5bbb586cf1612e>
14:45 philor oleonard-away: good idea changing the button text, I knew it was too big but I wanted the result more than I wanted small :)
14:46 cait3 irc meeting in 15?
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14:50 ashimema[m] yup
14:50 * ashimema[m] goes to grab a cuppa ready
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14:51 cait3 switching computers brb
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14:56 * cait wonders which cait she is
14:56 tcohen @seen leej
14:56 huginn tcohen: leej was last seen in #koha 1 year, 23 weeks, 6 days, 19 hours, 41 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: * LeeJ passes gavel to caroline
14:59 cait brb
15:00 kidclamp caroline_crazycatlady: you still jave the gavel?
15:00 ashimema[m] Development IRC meeting 22 April 2020#startmeeting
15:01 ashimema[m] #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ing_22_April_2020 Agenda
15:01 ashimema[m] #topic Introductions
15:01 reiveune bye
15:01 cait joined #koha
15:01 ashimema[m] #info Please preceed your name with #info to appear in the minutes
15:01 thd joined #koha
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15:01 ashimema[m] #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe
15:01 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
15:02 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
15:02 amoyano #info Agustin Moyano, Theke Solutions
15:02 enkidu #info Mengü Yazıcıoğlu, Devinim, Turkey
15:03 enkidu :)
15:04 ashimema[m] Right.. lets get this show on the road
15:04 ashimema[m] #topic Announcements
15:04 ashimema[m] #info Freeze dates are now in the community calendar.
15:04 tcohen #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Theke Solutions
15:05 cait we are still looking to fill some roles on the release team
15:05 ashimema[m] #info 20.05 Feature Freeze - Friday 1st May
15:05 ashimema[m] #info 20.05 String Freeze - Friday 8th May
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15:05 kidclamp #info Nick Clemens, ByWater Solutions
15:06 Joubu #info Jonathan Druart
15:06 ashimema[m] #info 20.05 Planed release date - Friday 22nd May
15:06 ashimema[m] #info We should all be focusing on bugfixes and last minute polishing at this point.. and planning our next big features and big pushes for the next cycle :)
15:07 ashimema[m] Anyone have any other anouncements?
15:07 cait advertise release team? we shoudl have the vote next general meeting
15:08 ashimema[m] #info Maintanence releases are imminent, just waiting on packaging
15:08 Joubu .
15:08 ashimema[m] #info The roles for next cycle page is available on the wiki now.. please add your names :)
15:08 tcohen tuxayo++
15:08 ashimema[m] #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]i/Roles_for_20.11 Roles for 20.11
15:08 Joubu We pushed some significant changes this release, technical ones. I think we should have a dedicated part in the release notes about them.
15:09 Joubu We should have some doc/advertisement about what has been done this cycle
15:09 ashimema[m] can we talk about that during general dev discussion in a moment Joubu?
15:09 ashimema[m] I agree
15:09 ashimema[m] #topic Update form the Release Manager
15:10 ashimema[m] #info What a busy cycle we've had, great work everyone.. keep up the hard work getting the last polish and bugfixes in to make a great release.
15:10 ashimema[m] #topic Update from the Release Maintainers
15:10 ashimema[m] rmaints?
15:10 wahanui hmmm... rmaints is talljoy, lukeG, hayley
15:11 ashimema[m] #info The next maintanence release is currently being packaged and will be anounced shortly.. It includes another small number of security patches so please update.
15:11 ashimema[m] #topic Update from the QA Team
15:11 ashimema[m] cait, cait1, cait2 and cait3 ?
15:11 ashimema[m] any news
15:12 Joubu yes, we need help
15:12 cait oh oops sorry
15:12 cait yes, help :)
15:12 Joubu 108 today, I have been QAing big part of my time recently, and the numbers don't go down
15:12 cait I tihnk there are actually more 'bigger' features in there than used to
15:13 cait the small stuff moves through fast, but the more complicated ones take longer
15:13 cait and are not picked up as easily
15:13 ashimema[m] Joubu++ for being a QA machine allot this cycle
15:13 tcohen Joubu++
15:13 cait Joubu++ :)
15:13 amoyano Joubu++
15:13 Joubu but, you know, I am tired of that
15:13 ashimema[m] #info QA has been crazy busy the last few weeks.. we're working hard but the numbers just aren't going down..
15:14 cait also for a lot of bug fixing
15:14 tcohen I would've loved to do more QA, hope the next cycle will be better
15:14 cait you still can... ;)
15:14 cait honestly, we still got a release to finish and polish - everry little bit helps :)
15:14 cait but i think we will have a good one there
15:15 * ashimema[m] is partially hoping to catch some more company high ups in the next few days to try and get more time commited to QA
15:16 ashimema[m] We need more QA persons and we need some of our more experienced one's available more
15:16 ashimema[m] the dashboard is very telling of whose managing to spend time and who isn't ;)
15:16 Joubu not necessarily more, but more active for sure yes
15:17 ashimema[m] I like to try and add one QA person a cycle if I can find a suitable candidate ;)
15:17 cait i think even an hour dedicated every week consistently could help
15:17 tcohen In my own case, I would really need to schedule some day to just QA, as doing it in scattered hours only allows me to do small ones
15:17 ashimema[m] Joonas was a good call for example ;)
15:17 cait it's not only the amount, but also being able to come back to things regularly heps
15:17 cait helps
15:17 ashimema[m] agreed tcohen..
15:18 ashimema[m] but.. to be able to commit to that you need to have the bills paid up first else paying customers have to take priority..
15:18 cait a lot of QA is also involved in bug fixing, keeping Jenkins alive... I know it's always a never ending list of tihngs for all of us
15:18 ashimema[m] that's my standpoint anyway
15:19 cait so QA_team++
15:19 ashimema[m] :)
15:19 ashimema[m] shall we move on
15:19 cait yes
15:19 ashimema[m] #topic General development discussion
15:19 ashimema[m] lets slot Joubu's one in first whilst I remember it.
15:20 ashimema[m] #info We should have some specific mentions of big changes that have progressed this cycle in the release notes.
15:20 ashimema[m] I totally agree with this, but haven't yet gone through the note to pick out which area's of improvement we should highlight
15:20 cait I like the idea, especially if there are changes sys admins need to be aware of, but also for advertising
15:20 ashimema[m] any help on that front would be greatfully received.
15:20 Joubu should we start a pad?
15:20 cait was going to ask that :)
15:21 tcohen +1 for the pad
15:21 ashimema[m] good diea
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15:21 ashimema[m] idea.. even
15:21 Joubu ok, I will create one and share the link
15:21 ashimema[m] Joubu++
15:22 tcohen Joubu++
15:22 ashimema[m] ok.. lets move on then
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15:23 ashimema[m] #info A new holds table - discussing a different approach to the merging of x + deleted_x/old_x tables.
15:23 ashimema[m] generalised it a bit there tcohen..
15:23 ashimema[m] I hope people have had at least a short moment to take a look at the idea.. I really like the approach
15:24 cait i have just checked the kohastructure patch - and it doesn't look so different from before (if at all?)
15:24 tcohen yeah, I don't think it is exactly the same, but yeah, it is very related
15:24 cait could you highlight changes?
15:24 tcohen the deleted* tables for biblio and items
15:24 cait and i already have a wish: expiration_date - separte the expiration date picked by the patron from the pickup date
15:24 tcohen are really about archived things
15:25 ashimema[m] #info tl:dr Create new tables from scratch using modern best practice, use Views for backwards compatability for reports as a route to migration
15:25 tcohen thanks ashimema[m]
15:25 tcohen :-D
15:25 cait I wonder if we could avoid the views even - we have done without for the biblio_metadata change
15:26 cait if it's only for the reports
15:26 ashimema[m] hope I didn't simplify the idea too much there.. ;)
15:27 tcohen I would use the views, with a visible deprecation warning on reports that use the old tables
15:27 cait ok
15:27 amoyano we had the fortune that the term reserves is not used anymore, so we could use 'holds' as table name, but having views for old terms is great, because we don't break custom reports
15:27 cait so they would not be something to keep long-term
15:27 Joubu I already shared my opinion with Tomas, so will do here. Doing it half the way will let us in this unfinished state for a long time.
15:27 tcohen in the case o f the holds table, we tried to also re-think it a bit, so we have completed and completion_date
15:27 ashimema[m] I have a feeling all the little accounts fixes I made might have put a few people off having to rework lots of reports ;)
15:28 cait i have not got there yet, I might hate you a little later :)
15:28 ashimema[m] I like the idea of having views.. we could make them an option rather than a requirement at time of submission?
15:28 cait Joubu: so half the way = you favor no views?
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15:28 Joubu The views are good for the reports (if really needed), but not to push something that is not completely done, and will never (if not done at the beginning, it will be like you know, all the stuffs we started but never finished)
15:28 cait I share that worry sadly, been around for a while to see htat happen
15:29 cait QueryParser (
15:29 cait :(
15:29 cait for a recent example
15:29 tcohen I played with this during the weekend
15:29 cait i think the 'inner workiings' should be finished in a release cycle
15:29 Joubu I would be in favor of a group working at the same time on that, in 10 days it's done. But done for real, not half the way. ie. no more old_reserves ref in the code
15:29 tcohen because code speaks
15:29 tcohen and my conclusion was the the views weren't useful for the codebase
15:30 cait so basically we all agree there? :)
15:30 tcohen it was easier to make things JOIN the right table with the right where
15:30 ashimema[m] So we need some working groups to make sure we get such things through in full.. I would happily be part of such an effort
15:30 ashimema[m] we need the next RM on side for that
15:30 cait yes... we need the RM to agree
15:30 cait but we got no RM candidate yet
15:30 Joubu we need an RM
15:30 tcohen as I said I started with the idea of using the view, but the result was it was useless
15:30 ashimema[m] cait for RM
15:30 tcohen cait++
15:31 cait you all just want me to push your stuff and think you'd get favorable treatment ;)
15:31 tcohen we all know you won't allow us to break things
15:31 cait ashimema[m]: what's the amount of time you reckon for RM duty atm?
15:32 ashimema[m] My alternative for RM proposal.. which I've not fully thought through yet.. was to try and split it with a small group.. say 4 prior RM's each taking a week of duty each month to spread the load a bit
15:32 ashimema[m] hmm.. RM time really depends on your own individual style.
15:33 tcohen ashimema[m] but then Joubu would revert my pushes on his turn
15:33 tcohen LOL
15:33 Joubu RM needs an overview of what has been pushed/done/need to be done. Hard to see how you can be 1/4 of the time on it
15:33 tcohen can I ask to follow the agenda
15:33 tcohen and then discuss this ?
15:34 cait i see Joubu's point too
15:34 cait harder to keep a consistent... line?
15:34 ashimema[m] I tend to try and keep up with the queue and do an hour or two every morning.. I also lean heavily on the QA team and spend a little less time on personally testing work than some previous RM's.. instead I focused on maintaining close relationships with bug authors so when tests started to fail or we spotted issue I was confident I could go find the person responsible and get help fixing it.
15:34 ashimema[m] hehe tochen
15:35 cait I can also see tcohen's point ;)
15:35 ashimema[m] fair
15:35 ashimema[m] so.. we all think rather than ever adapting the existing tables, where it makes sense we should create a new table and work through as a group to impliment modern best practices using it.
15:35 tcohen I agree with Joubu, but I think some people communicate well and share where to go
15:36 ashimema[m] and use views where needed for report compatability.. but only for reports.
15:36 cait and only for a limited time
15:36 tcohen +1 # limited and known time
15:37 ashimema[m] specific questions you had
15:37 tcohen Joubu I didn't find a real use on the views in the code to 'cheat' (not finish the job)
15:37 ashimema[m] foreign key field names
15:37 tcohen there's no coding guideline for that
15:37 cait i was wondering... why only for the FK?
15:38 tcohen but I've been told several times we should use the related column name
15:38 cait i mean if we name the FK patron_id... shoudl we not do that for new tables as well?
15:38 cait columns i mean?
15:38 ashimema[m] I think we should use intended table names as aposed to existing table names
15:38 tcohen \o/
15:38 ashimema[m] so.. as you say.. patron_id in preference to borrowernumber.. and then one day we might have 'patrons' as the table and 'id' as the primary key on it.
15:39 tcohen yup
15:39 tcohen if we agree on this path, we should end up there soon
15:40 ashimema[m] I would be happy to have that as a guidline myself.. I often find myself asking what route I should take with a column name to be consistent.. having a guideline would help with that and we can work towards updating the old field names over time
15:40 cait maybe not soon, with the reports and all, but sometime
15:40 ashimema[m] I think renaming fields wouldn't be too horrific for reports actually.. I think a db update should be able to catch those
15:41 ashimema[m] do we want to add an action / vote for that proposal?
15:42 tcohen I would go for it, unless people want to send an email to gather more opiions on koha-devel
15:42 cait we could write up something an dstill send it to list
15:42 tcohen *opinions
15:42 cait people will disagree if they hate it i think
15:42 ashimema[m] brill
15:43 cait ashimema[m]: renaming borrowernumber in a report woudl probably cause isuses, it's too many times from different tables :) others would probably work better
15:44 ashimema[m] #action Martin Renvoize Write up a guideline for foreign key field names and distribute it for comment.
15:44 tcohen I cannot volunteer to write that email today
15:44 cait hm didn't we agree to make ti broader?
15:44 cait also for new tables?
15:44 ashimema[m] next point..
15:44 ashimema[m] DB Triggers
15:44 ashimema[m] tcohen?
15:44 wahanui i think tcohen is the man you want to thank
15:44 Joubu IIRC I wanted to use them once, but people disagreed on that
15:45 tcohen I've read the whole Reserves + Holds code this weekend
15:45 cait hm i have worked with a really trigger heavy db
15:45 ashimema[m] We've generally avoided triggers to date.. I'm not entirely sure why.. is there a historical reason or has it generally been a lack of knowledge?
15:45 cait it's not the fun it sounds like
15:45 tcohen (no wonder why I got a peak of stress on monday hm)
15:45 cait it adds another thing to think of
15:45 cait to explain behaviour
15:45 Joubu the cons were that 1. it's not portable (DBMS dependent), and 2. not exported with a dump (and so need additional stuff to backup)
15:46 cait they are depending on dbms not as powerful as perl (at least in my sybase experience)
15:46 Joubu (and, it's a nightmare to write)
15:46 cait and also yeah, mariadb/mysql... versions... we already got tons of trouble with that
15:47 ashimema[m] any country arguaments to that tcohen?
15:47 * ashimema[m] is trying to remain unbiased
15:47 amoyano pros we can ensure that certain actions are done in a single transaction
15:47 cait my coworkers stated quite a few times that they think koha db is working as well and stable because we are not using triggers, procedures etc.
15:47 Joubu amoyano: you can to that in perl as well
15:48 ashimema[m] for db agnostic aims we're better off without db level triggers.
15:48 tcohen I don't think we will ever support postgres, so I don't mind that much. I think it really depends on the complexity of the actions carried by those triggers
15:48 Joubu you can open a transaction, do your stuff or rollback
15:49 Joubu I hope we will support postgres at some ponit
15:49 cait we already got issues between mariadb and mysql...
15:49 cait and the whole idea of the orm was to make us mroe database agnostic some day
15:49 cait i think we can't/should not walk in 2 directions at once
15:49 cait :)
15:49 tcohen I will help anyone wanting to support postgres, but I think there are better things to spend the time on
15:50 ashimema[m] I had issues just getting check constraints to work with mariadb and mysql.. so many issues that I ended up removing them entirely so we're unconstrained.
15:50 ashimema[m] if we were using just postgres I would jump at triggers (they can be perl inside the db)
15:50 ashimema[m] I think we should add triggers at the perl level.. inside dbic classes or koha::objects more likely
15:50 enkidu I have not see any better advantage of using postgres
15:50 ashimema[m] add/maintain
15:50 ashimema[m] +1 tcohen
15:51 tcohen As I was saying earlier, I spent the weekend reviewing all the weirdness in Reserves + Holds
15:51 ashimema[m] in terms of real world performance I've not really testing if db triggers out perform code level triggers
15:51 tcohen and the only thing that doesn't fit our current OO practices
15:51 tcohen is _FixPriorities
15:51 tcohen I didn't manage to see how to make it fit
15:51 cait hm can you explain?
15:51 tcohen the rest of it can just be class regular methods
15:52 ashimema[m] I've not looked at the particular routine yet
15:52 cait it does the renumbering when people change priority or a hold is filled/cancelled right?
15:52 tcohen it basically calls Koha::Holds->search and does things on the related holds priorities
15:52 tcohen if I wanted to keep Koha::Hold->clean
15:52 tcohen this would be a callback or something
15:53 tcohen but we don't have such mechanisms
15:53 tcohen and DB triggers seem to be the cleanest way
15:53 tcohen I mean Koha::Hold->store
15:54 Joubu Is your plan to rewrite C4::Reserves?
15:55 tcohen It is already an ongoing process, right?
15:55 ashimema[m] In Koha::StockRotationStage we use DBIx::Class::Ordered.. I think that approach could work here too?
15:56 tcohen Joubu I don't have the time to do that, but I think it is fairly simple to do. And also, this is the oportunity to find our good/bad patterns and evolve
15:56 tcohen that's why I raised this discussion to start with
15:57 Joubu I think I just don't understand what the next steps are
15:58 Joubu removing/replacing _fixpriority sounds quite far in the tree
15:58 Joubu so yes we could think how to replace it, but we will certainly face other problematics before
15:58 cait maybe we should have a pad to gather thorughts on this too?
15:58 tcohen good idea
15:59 tcohen I'm being called for lunch
15:59 cait and see if we can get a group interested to meet up and discussmore deeply
15:59 Joubu it's hard to imagine how that could be done without the other things (the ones that leave around _fix_priority) moved
15:59 ashimema[m] ok..
15:59 cait holds sig ;)
16:00 ashimema[m] shall we jump to davids topic then
16:00 tcohen the triggers question was not something to implement right now, but a general question
16:00 tcohen because I see a use for it
16:00 ashimema[m] #action Group to continue discussion out of meeting, but genreally we all agree to the idea of creating clean new tables.
16:00 tcohen and as a dev this are the things that take most of the time, thinking how to do it in a consistent and productive way
16:00 Joubu what means creating new tables?
16:00 tcohen gotta run
16:01 Joubu ok nevermind
16:01 cait i think 'holds'
16:01 ashimema[m] as in.. create a 'holds' table rather than continuing with 'reserves' and 'Koha::Holds' as two different things
16:01 ashimema[m] ok.. lets move onto
16:01 ashimema[m] #info Release notes for bugs
16:02 ashimema[m] I've held off being evil about enforcing this, but it would certainly make RM and Docs people's lives simpler
16:02 ashimema[m] ensureing the 'Text to go in release notes' box is populated
16:03 ashimema[m] I would opt to leave that for the next RM to propose and consider ;)
16:03 ashimema[m] #topic Review of coding guidelines
16:04 ashimema[m] #info Terminology: staff client vs staff intranet vs staff interface vs intranet
16:05 cait hm davidnind might not have made it
16:05 cait caroline_catlady: around?
16:05 ashimema[m] I am happy to use staff interface personally
16:05 cait we said staff client was acutally incorrect = no client
16:05 cait and staff interface was the better liked
16:05 ashimema[m] I do think we shouldn't have two different wiki pages for terminology thought ;)
16:05 Joubu https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Terminology
16:06 ashimema[m] #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Terminology Terminology
16:06 ashimema[m] #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]/Word_usage_-_A-Z Words
16:06 cait terminology is older i think
16:06 ashimema[m] yup
16:07 ashimema[m] we could merge it into the new one and add a redirect
16:07 ashimema[m] I'm happy to do that
16:07 cait i like the styling of the new one
16:08 ashimema[m] #action Martin Renvoize will merge the old terminology page into the new words page on the wiki
16:08 cait note: terminology is referred int he coding guidelines
16:08 Joubu or the other way around?
16:08 ashimema[m] me too ;)
16:08 Joubu sounds better to keep the old one
16:08 cait maybe easier yes
16:08 talljoy good morning
16:08 cait keeps the link sintact
16:08 cait just use the style and new additions look good too
16:08 ashimema[m] with a re-direct in place it should be transparent
16:09 cait i know, but one click less
16:09 cait if we keep temrinology in most cases
16:09 ashimema[m] fair enough
16:10 ashimema[m] perhaps our mediawiki requires an extra click.. redirect don't generally if it's not a disambiguation page.
16:11 cait move on?
16:11 ashimema[m] any more to talk about this?
16:11 ashimema[m] or can I move on
16:11 cait i think noone disagrees with staff interface (or i missed it?)
16:11 ashimema[m] #topic
16:11 ashimema[m] #topic Set time of next meeting
16:12 ashimema[m] 6th May suit people?
16:13 cait yup
16:13 amoyano yes
16:13 ashimema[m] early or late slot?
16:14 ashimema[m] I tend to stick early more recently.. the later one seems to genreally not be well attended
16:14 cait really bad for nz at this slot
16:15 cait 3 am?
16:15 cait we should keep rotating
16:16 ashimema[m] so 19:00 UTC (20:00 in UK, 07:00 In NZ and 15:00 in USA(ish))
16:16 Joubu last one did not take place
16:16 ashimema[m] yup
16:16 ashimema[m] because no-one turned up
16:16 Oak__ joined #koha
16:16 ashimema[m] myself included :(
16:17 ashimema[m] oops
16:17 ashimema[m] #info Next meeting: 6 May 2020, 19 UTC
16:18 ashimema[m] ok with everyone?
16:18 * ashimema[m] is getting hungry
16:18 Joubu go for it
16:18 ashimema[m] #endmeeting
16:18 * cait is hungry too
16:18 cait what's for dinner ashimema[m]?
16:18 ashimema[m] thanks everyone
16:19 ashimema[m] seafood pasta
16:19 Joubu you messed with the #startmeeting
16:19 Joubu we don't have log
16:19 cait ohoh
16:19 cait we could still link ot the irc log, but do we need to start/end another for the script?
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16:32 Joubu #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 22 April 2020
16:32 huginn Meeting started Wed Apr 22 16:32:22 2020 UTC.  The chair is Joubu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:32 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
16:32 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 22 April 2020)
16:32 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_22_april_2020'
16:32 Joubu #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ing_22_April_2020
16:32 Joubu #info the logs of this meeting are at http://irc.koha-community.org/[…]0-04-22#i_2239112
16:33 Joubu #info Next meeting: 6 May 2020, 19 UTC
16:33 Joubu #endmeeting
16:35 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software http://koha-community.org
16:35 huginn Meeting ended Wed Apr 22 16:33:08 2020 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
16:35 huginn Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-04-22-16.32.html
16:35 huginn Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]0-04-22-16.32.txt
16:35 huginn Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]22-16.32.log.html
16:35 ashimema[m] crap :(
16:35 cait don't worry.... i guess we all had that meeting ones
16:35 ashimema[m] stupid irc client
16:35 cait once
16:35 ashimema[m] it's in the right order for me.. but looking at the irc logs it's reverse it!
16:40 lisettelatah Hello all
16:40 cait hi lisettelatah!
16:40 lisettelatah I got my devbox working again just in time for Kohathon tomorrow.
16:41 cait yay!
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16:55 * philor takes several deep breaths
16:56 philor the first-time experience merging authorities with LinkerModule: FirstMatch is... startling
16:56 talljoy indeed.
16:57 * ashimema[m] is heading for dinner now
16:57 ashimema[m] if anyone fancies checking my work on https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]/Word_usage_-_A-Z (doing it there before moving it accross to https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Terminology
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19:10 caroline Somebody pinged me earlier? Sorry, I was doing a training
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