IRC log for #koha, 2016-02-02

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:01 talljoy joined #koha
00:37 dan_ joined #koha
00:39 dan_ Hi people
00:40 talljoy hiya
00:40 dan_ In bug titles as "Bug 11347 - PROG/CCSR deprecation: ...", someone could tell me what's the meaning of the abbreviation 'CCSR', please?
00:40 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11347 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, CLOSED FIXED, PROG/CCSR deprecation: Remove opacsmallimage system-preference
00:45 pianohacker dan_: it was the name of an old theme for the Koha OPAC
00:48 dan_ That was previous to Koha 3, isn't it? I really didn't know it
00:50 pianohacker dan_: according to git, we only finally got rid of it in 3.18
00:51 chrisvella joined #koha
00:51 pianohacker I can't remember what we called the themes in Koha 2, those are old dark memories
00:51 pianohacker dan_: hi, by the way, don't think we've met
00:59 dan_ pianohacker: Indeed, we have not met. I'm just an occasional visitor of this channel, whenever I have exhausted all my solving resources
00:59 dan_ pianohacker: Thank you very much for your answer
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01:12 mtompset
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01:25 Francesca joined #koha
01:35 kathryn hi, does anyone admin the Koha facebook account? I wondered if they would be able to post about this event[…]-system-melbourne
01:36 rocio left #koha
01:36 mtompset which one, kathryn?
01:36 kathryn ohhh hmmn true..the best one? :)
01:37 kathryn Just trying to put the word out
01:37 kathryn all sharing is welcome
01:37 kathryn[…]fo/?tab=page_info
01:37 kathryn ^ I was on that one
01:37 kathryn oh it's nicole
01:38 kathryn I didn't have to look far
01:41 mtompset I've posted it to two others that I know about. :)
01:41 kathryn thanks heaps!
01:41 mtompset But I'm not sure people from India or the Philippines would be able to come on such short notice and so far away. :)
01:41 kathryn no, we mostly invited people via local library mail lists
01:43 kathryn we can fill the room just with locals :)
01:45 Francesca joined #koha
01:51 mtompset Is there any benefit to "use Foobar;" when neither foo nor bar are used at all in the code?
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04:41 mtompset @later tell khall git grep uniout only shows that one line of code. Throwing 'my' on it only masked a larger problem. I can't find a definition even back to 3.0.x
04:41 huginn` mtompset: The operation succeeded.
05:02 SamEEE joined #koha
05:28 mtompset Have a good day (24 hour period), #koha.
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06:13 cait joined #koha
06:41 caren joined #koha
06:48 * magnuse waves
06:55 * cait waves back
07:22 Francesca joined #koha
07:40 reiveune joined #koha
07:40 reiveune hello
07:44 Francesca joined #koha
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07:59 alex_a joined #koha
08:00 alex_a bonjour
08:00 wahanui bonjour, alex_a
08:05 cait joined #koha
08:06 cait me waves
08:12 cait wiki editing works better when you actually save your changes... *sigh*
08:15 gaetan_B joined #koha
08:15 gaetan_B hello
08:25 magnuse cait: that does tend to make things more permanent, yes
08:29 Francesca joined #koha
08:35 SamEEE joined #koha
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08:42 cait magnuse: it appears so...
08:56 paul_p rangi = are you around & available ? the "old" jenkins server will be switched off in a few minutes by our provider, I'd like so see if I renew it for 1 month or not. The only missing thing is the DNS change AFAIK
08:59 cait paul_p: he is in australia at a conf at the moment - so different timezone than usual
08:59 Joubu hi #koha
08:59 paul_p hi cait
08:59 paul_p :(
08:59 paul_p well, in fact, it's a better TZ for us in AUS. But he may be AFK...
08:59 * paul_p has seen tweets about the conf
09:00 * paul_p feel he will take another month. Not a big expense.
09:01 cait hi paul_p ;)
09:01 cait maybe sent him a twitter dm or email instead
09:01 cait or be safe with another month :)
09:03 paul_p cait 15€ for one month. paying now ;-)
09:03 paul_p yikes, much more than 15 : 15.99€ !!!
09:03 paul_p :D
09:04 cait hm reminds me... i should look into getting a server again probably
09:32 * magnuse could not imagine life without servers
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09:58 mveron-away Hi #koha
10:09 Francesca joined #koha
10:19 * Francesca waves
10:21 * magnuse waves
10:24 * mveron waves
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11:17 Monis1 hi all
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12:22 tcohen morning
12:48 meliss joined #koha
12:50 cait morning tcohen :)
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13:00 tcohen joined #koha
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13:05 oleonard Hi #koha
13:07 kidclamp hi oleonard
13:20 Dyrcona joined #koha
13:25 oleonard Who worked on Bug 15106? I don't recognize the name.
13:25 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=15106 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Needs Signoff , Batch Patron Modification Performance Improvement
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13:38 tcohen morning
13:40 oleonard Hi tcohen. Do you know if nengard was able to get in touch with bgkriegel?
13:41 tcohen i'm not sure
13:41 tcohen let me ask him
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14:08 oleonard dev meeting in just under one hour?
14:08 cait yes
14:14 JoshB joined #koha
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14:34 * magnuse will be eating dinner during the dev meeting, then
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14:45 marcelr joined #koha
14:45 marcelr hi #koha
14:45 andreashm hi marcelr
14:46 aleisha joined #koha
14:50 bag good morning
14:50 wahanui the only good morning is a dead one
14:51 oleonard You're in luck wahanui, this meeting may kill it!
14:53 talljoy ha
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14:55 cait t-5 minutes
14:56 cait get out your notes everyone
14:56 cait ... and coffee/tea... etc.
14:57 pianohacker strong coffee
14:58 andreashm haha
15:00 oleonard Is there an agenda?
15:00 cait yes
15:00 cait one sec
15:00 cait https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]g_2_February_2016
15:01 cait ok, about to start the meeting, get ready everyone :)
15:01 cait #startmeeting Developer IRC Meeting, 2 February 2016
15:01 huginn` Meeting started Tue Feb  2 15:01:10 2016 UTC.  The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at
15:01 huginn` Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
15:01 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: Developer IRC Meeting, 2 February 2016)
15:01 huginn` The meeting name has been set to 'developer_irc_meeting__2_february_2016'
15:01 cait #topic Introductions
15:01 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
15:01 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Developer IRC Meeting, 2 February 2016)
15:01 cait Please introduce yourself using #info like wahanui just did
15:01 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
15:01 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries
15:01 pianohacker #info Jesse Weaver, ByWater Solutions, USA
15:02 cait #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]g_2_February_2016
15:02 talljoy #info Joy Nelson, ByWater Solutions, USA
15:02 jajm #info Julian Maurice, BibLibre, France
15:02 Joubu #info Jonathan Druart
15:02 matts #info Matthias Meusburger, Biblibre, France
15:02 marcelr #info Marcel de Rooy, Rijksmuseum, Netherlands
15:02 andreashm #info Andreas Hedström Mace, Stockholm University Library
15:02 bag #info Brendan Gallagher ByWater
15:03 oleonard_ joined #koha
15:03 cc #info Colin Campbell, PTFS-Europe
15:03 kidclamp #info Nick Clemens, ByWater Solutions, USA
15:03 drojf2 #info mirko tietgen, not really here
15:03 tcohen #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Theke
15:04 khall #info Kyle M Hall, Bywater Solutions
15:04 NateC #info Nate Curulla, BWS
15:04 bag hi mirko not really here :D
15:04 cait before we start with the topics on the wiki - any announcements?
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15:05 cait RM notes? :)
15:05 bag Currently few notes
15:05 bag pushed the XSS so please test test that and let’s see if we can find any missing spots
15:05 indradg joined #koha
15:06 bag the web-installer needs some touch up - but I think mtompset caught some of that
15:06 Joubu (there is one already, patched, passed qa)
15:06 cait #info XSS patches were pushed, please test and help to find any remaining problems
15:06 bag yes :)  awesomeness
15:06 bag Still looking for more testers of Elastic Search
15:07 cait bag: which branch is recommended for testing?
15:07 cait catalyst or kc?
15:07 Joubu kc
15:07 bag there is a branch in kc
15:07 bag kc :)
15:07 indradg #info Indranil Das Gupta, L2C2 Technologies
15:07 cait #info Elastic search needs testing as well - please use the branch on the main repository
15:07 tcohen instructions?
15:07 wahanui instructions are coming right now to the wiki near you or at
15:07 * bag will catch up with tcohen sometime this week to get some more lessons - especially with jenkins and packaging
15:07 cait I think there is a page on the wiki with some notes at least
15:08 tcohen thanks cait
15:08 bag so that I start to hopefully clean up the tests and get master to be passing stable on jenkins
15:08 cait #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]iki/Elasticsearch
15:08 Joubu the branch is named remotes/origin/new_12478_elasticsearch
15:08 bag yes ^^
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15:08 cait #info Elastic search branch: remotes/origin/new_12478_elasticsearch
15:09 bag that is it for me - I will keep pushing what I see from PQA
15:09 cait ok, let's move to our first big topic
15:09 bag if I miss something - just shoot me an @later and I’ll get on it
15:09 cait #topic Review of Coding guidelines
15:09 Topic for #koha is now Review of Coding guidelines (Meeting topic: Developer IRC Meeting, 2 February 2016)
15:09 cait I have tried to group the various topics a bit - I hope people are ok with it :)
15:10 cait we have a lot to get through in this meeting, for some topics i think we can only start discussion and will need a draft to vote on next
15:10 cait I will go through them by sequence, but we have to watch the time a bit today with our long agenda
15:10 cait let's start with the first item
15:11 cait #info [marcelr] In relation to Plack: Should we add a PERL rule that  prohibits defining lexical variables (my $var) in MODULES at the  outermost block (file level), and also prohibits directly accessing file  level lexicals in subroutines of SCRIPTS.
15:11 marcelr first part is less mandatory than the second part, i guess
15:11 cait I'd suggest that ideally all additions to the coding guidelines should include a good/bad example if possible
15:11 ashimema ooh.. meeting
15:11 ashimema #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe
15:12 cait i am a bit out of my depth here - any comments, questions?
15:12 marcelr the first part needs some common sense
15:12 cc It would be more useful yo explain the rational behind this than to make it a rule it dosent apply to scripts which will never be used by plack
15:12 bag examples are good :)
15:12 tcohen I agree with the proposal, as it is also a clearer way to program
15:13 tcohen :-P
15:13 khall I totally agree
15:13 Joubu I almost agree with everything too
15:13 cait ok, so shoudl we note exceptions?
15:13 tcohen who likes global variables in modules?
15:13 cait or a scope where this applies?
15:13 Joubu There is no new things, we just need to update the wiki page
15:13 cc A good guideline would be to discourage globals where possible
15:14 pianohacker cc: to clarify, by "scripts which will never be used by plack", do you mean things like cronjobs?
15:14 cc yes
15:14 cait would someone be willing to work out a draft?
15:15 jajm i believe global variables can't be completely avoided in modules (for instance $VERSION, @EXPORT, ...), so why forbid it ?
15:15 marcelr obviously
15:15 pianohacker jajm: those are read-only, though, correct?
15:15 tcohen jajm: but they are not storing state
15:15 * ashimema has gotta go collect kids.. sorry for me absence.. again!
15:15 barton #info Barton Chittenden, bws, Louisville, KY, USA
15:16 cc no they can be manipulated at runtime
15:16 * ashimema will read the minutes
15:16 pianohacker cc: huh?
15:16 jajm pianohacker, tcohen, ok, so forbid global variables that are storing state ?
15:16 cc VERSION and EXPORT are not readonly
15:17 tcohen cc: forbid touching VERSION and EXPORT could be another rule :-P
15:17 cait again, someone willing to make a draft? I am eager on an #action :)
15:17 pianohacker jajm: I'd say so. Forbid state globals in modules/CGI scripts as it causes issues with plack, and discourage them in other places for style reasons?
15:18 cc lots of modules thouch EXPORT for good reasons
15:18 jajm that sounds right pianohacker
15:18 marcelr i think that we all understand exceptions for EXPORT etc.
15:18 * cait volunteers pianohacker
15:19 cc Document what the issue is with plack lets try and minimise "magick"
15:19 cait pianohacker: can you wite a draft that we can review later?
15:19 pianohacker cait: does the above work, or are you talking in the form of a coding guideline
15:19 tcohen cc: +1
15:19 pianohacker cait: either way, sure
15:19 marcelr cait: i think we already had a draft
15:19 cait a coding guideline: :)
15:20 cait marcelr: hm?
15:20 pianohacker I volunteer
15:20 tajoli joined #koha
15:20 cait just to summarize the discussion here in a short form
15:20 marcelr from the agenda
15:21 pianohacker cc:[…]ested_Subroutines <- for context
15:21 cait marcelr: I thought adding the addtional remarks to it as discussed
15:21 marcelr ok
15:22 pianohacker #action pianohacker will draw up a draft of a coding guideline regarding global variables in modules/CGI scripts, see[…]ested_Subroutines for context
15:22 cait thx
15:22 cait moving on to the next item for now
15:23 cait [marcelr] What about DBIx, Koha::Object versus old school MySQL statements in code ?  [khall] I think the use of direct DBIx should be deprecated in  favor of Koha::Object, and direct sql statements should be limited to  queries that don't work well with the object model
15:23 cait there are some rules about use of SQL in the current coding guidelines
15:23 pianohacker I think the above has been so strongly enforced on new patches that it's a de facto coding guideline
15:24 cait hm in part
15:24 cait the problem is that we have patches of different 'age' sitting in the queue
15:24 cait i think we can say DBIx before SQLfor sur, but not sure about enforcing Koha::Object for everything
15:25 tajoli #info Zeno Tajoli, CINECA, Italy
15:25 khall cait: I think we should add a grandfather clause for all new rules
15:25 cait khall: ?
15:25 khall to give them some leeway
15:25 cc I'm very unpersuaded by Koha::Objects in their current form
15:25 cait can you quickly explain a grandfather clause? :)
15:25 pianohacker agreed, there's a lot of precedent for that
15:25 khall cait: meaning these new rules affect only patches submitted after the rules were voted in
15:25 khall for older patches, we can give them more latitude
15:26 barton grandfather clause: a case that violates the proposed rules, but will be allowed because it's already there.
15:26 Joubu it's not possible to force people using dbix::class, but we get more and more module using Koha::Objects in the Koha namespace
15:26 Joubu it will be more and more easier for devs to use it
15:26 marcelr we had this discussion before about allowing DBIx in all modules or not
15:26 Joubu especially because we will get ot of example
15:26 Joubu lot*
15:26 khall marcelr: Koha::Object(s) is what came out of that discussion
15:26 cait hm we only have this in the coding guidelines: PERL19: The use of C4::SQLHelper module is deprecated   C4:SQLHelper has been superseded by DBIC (examples), please use this instead.
15:27 reiveune joined #koha
15:27 cait the lin goes here: https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]s_of_DBIC_in_Koha
15:27 marcelr i remember that this was not a decision
15:27 tcohen i'd leave it as a de-facto coding guideline, and let the RM have the last call on each situation
15:27 pianohacker yup, we need something stronger
15:27 Joubu cait: this page has not been updated
15:27 cait Joubu: correct - so that's not ideal... but i suggest removing the PERL19 entirely
15:27 khall tcohen: that's the situation we should avoid. It's better to give devs the info they need to write it correctly the first time
15:28 pianohacker what khall said
15:28 cait SQLHelper is no longer part of the codebase
15:28 reiveune joined #koha
15:28 cait cc: can you detail the problems you encountered ?
15:28 tcohen pianohacker: khall: I agree
15:28 Joubu PERL18 a PERL19 should be removed, yes
15:28 Joubu and*
15:28 khall agreed
15:29 tcohen +1
15:29 cait can we agree on removing those right away?
15:29 marcelr +1
15:29 cait one is C4::Dates deprecated, the other SQL::Helper
15:29 cait +1
15:29 pianohacker +1
15:29 khall +1
15:29 Joubu +1
15:29 tajoli +1
15:29 jajm +1
15:29 barton +1
15:29 kidclamp +1
15:29 talljoy +1
15:29 indradg +1
15:30 cc Performance, aldo negates some of the benefits of DBIIx::Class by obscuring the interface to the returned objects with an extra layer - it seems to add code rather than functionality
15:30 Joubu (add PERL11 to the list)
15:30 cait #agreed PERL18 and PERL19 to be removed, as the deprecated modules are no longer part of the codebase (C4::Dates and SQLHelper)
15:30 cait actually removing ws a later topic, i just jumped into as we were already discussing it
15:30 bag +1
15:30 cait let me read back a second for the dbix discussion
15:31 khall Joubu is right about PERL11
15:31 cait I am not sure if I remember correctly, but I think we didn't vote to enforce Koha::Object and agreed not to use DBIx in .pl files directly
15:31 pianohacker And PERL12, by its own admission?
15:32 khall pianohacker: seems that way
15:32 marcelr cait: maybe add the DBIx rule with some clause that we need good arguments to bypass it or so
15:32 cait marcelr: sorry, not sure i understand - the rule about not using in .pl files?
15:32 marcelr the rule under discussion
15:32 pianohacker cait: Perhaps to enforce usage where a Koha::Object already exists, to match what is current QA practice?
15:33 cait I am sorry, I got a bit lost
15:34 pianohacker cait: for context: https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]g.cgi?id=14659#c4
15:34 huginn` Bug 14659: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jweaver, Needs Signoff , Allow patrons to enter card number and patron category on OPAC registration page
15:34 cait I think there are still some doubts about Koha::Object - see cc's comment, so giving some room to move would be good
15:34 cait so where a Koha::Object module exists - use that?
15:34 khall I'd like to understand cc's doubts. I don't think we've heard anything against from anyone else
15:34 pianohacker not to pick on Joubu, just to point out what I mean
15:35 pianohacker cait: yes
15:35 Joubu cait: yes, everybody has doubts about Koha::Object, but nobody never provided either a an alternative or valid arguments not to use it
15:35 khall The defacto recently has been to use Koha::Object(s)
15:35 bag I was under that thought too - the defacto
15:35 marcelr it was not decided yet
15:36 cc I've never seen a convincing rationale for using them
15:36 Joubu you can refer to "Koha and DBIC" from Septembre 2014 on Koha-devel
15:36 marcelr that discussion never reached a good conclusion iirc
15:36 Joubu then "Koha::Object" on July 2015
15:37 marcelr i would prefer a rule now with an escape for convincing arguments to qa/rm
15:37 khall marcelr++
15:37 pianohacker marcelr: basically every rule has that escape, out of necessity, but I agree :)
15:37 cait maybe we coudl summarize
15:37 marcelr pianohacker: nobody tends to provide the args
15:38 cait - use where an Object already exists
15:38 cait - use preferrably
15:38 cait ß
15:38 cait ?
15:38 khall that sounds reasonable and good to me!
15:38 tcohen i think every medium sized project for improving Koha (new module) should be discussed with the core team so (without interfering) we agree on different alternative approaches
15:38 cait again, someone willing to draft?
15:38 pianohacker Joubu: are you referring to http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.[…]ct-td5848332.html ?
15:38 Joubu "core team" needs to be defined
15:39 tcohen arguments against an approach supporting the other will raise, win-win situation
15:39 pianohacker what Joubu said
15:39 tcohen koha-devel
15:39 wahanui well, koha-devel is most likely the best koha list there is (Hey, Im a bot, im biased) and can be found at http://lists.koha-community.or[…]stinfo/koha-devel
15:39 Joubu yep
15:39 pianohacker Joubu: and http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.[…]IC-td5811156.html ?
15:39 tcohen the worse situation we've seen is starvation
15:39 khall cait: I think we can vote on what you just wrote
15:39 khall it's simple enough
15:39 tcohen no one answers, deve does what he wants
15:39 Joubu pianohacker: yep
15:40 tcohen it's the RM call
15:40 nengard joined #koha
15:40 tcohen period
15:40 cait i'd like something a bit more polished in full sentences for the wiki:)
15:40 khall cait: ok, I'll get something written right now
15:40 cait that someone will udnerstand outside of this meeting
15:40 cait and with a clear escape clause - as the proof might be in the code... i don't know
15:40 cait thx
15:41 cait moving on for now
15:41 cait the grandfather clause
15:41 marcelr grandfather is implicit for more rules
15:41 marcelr probably
15:41 cait my suggestion woudl be: we should state the date and the meeting in the guidelines added clearly. Then we can say, code submitted before guidelines with a clear 'start from' date is still ok
15:42 Joubu and with "feel free to provide an alternative if you are not convinced with this one" clause? :)
15:42 cait or 'grandfather rules stated below applies' or whatever
15:42 pianohacker cait: agreed
15:43 tcohen vote?
15:43 wahanui vote is probably going to the list regardless of what we decide
15:43 marcelr ... for exceptions to this rule we need convincing arguments for using or skipping DBIx/Koha::Object
15:43 cait formal vote or +1?
15:45 cait i'd like to stick with +1 actually, becuase it's a littler faster today
15:45 cait but again, i need someone to write it up - the grandfather rule
15:45 khall cait: will do
15:45 cait thx
15:46 cait moving on to next opic for now
15:46 ablj joined #koha
15:46 cait [marcelr] New modules should be added if possible into the new Koha namespace (and not in C4).
15:46 pianohacker while it sounds like we're pushing the K::O discussion to the mailing list, should we vote on the grandfather rule here and now?
15:46 cait i think this is pretty clear
15:46 pianohacker sorry, just missed timing :)
15:46 cait pianohacker: will return to all the 'write up somethings' at the end
15:47 barton cait++
15:47 khall cait: I've got those writeups, should we do a quick review / vote?
15:47 cait yes, where?
15:47 khall cait: I was just going to paste them here
15:47 khall PERL16 - Modules in the Koha namespace should be object oriented when possible, using Koha::Object(s) as a preferred base.
15:47 khall PERL16.1 - If an Koha::Object already exists, use it instead of other methods of table CRUD.
15:48 khall XXX - Patches submitted before the introduction of a new rule may pass qa even if they do not meet the current coding guidline requirements of the discretion of the QA team member.
15:48 khall also, we'll want to put the date on new rules from now on
15:48 khall but that's implied
15:49 pianohacker cait: are there any patches old enough that we should do some wiki archeology to figure out the date-added of the existing rules?
15:49 cait pianohacker: i hope not, but probably will do so when the problem arises :)
15:49 pianohacker seems reasonable
15:50 cait any comments?
15:50 Amit_Gupta joined #koha
15:50 cait don't go quiet...
15:51 khall going once
15:51 nengard joined #koha
15:51 khall twice
15:51 cait no comments?
15:51 cait ok, voting on PERL16/16.1 please
15:51 khall +1
15:51 marcelr +1
15:51 pianohacker +1
15:51 kidclamp +1
15:51 barton +1
15:52 cc -1
15:52 indradg +1
15:52 Joubu +1
15:52 tcohen +1
15:52 bag +1
15:53 tajoli +1
15:53 cait #agreed PERL16 - Modules in the Koha namespace should be object oriented when possible, using Koha::Object(s) as a preferred base.  PERL16.1 - If an Koha::Object already exists, use it instead of other methods of table CRUD.
15:53 cait for the XXX rule - at the discretion of the qa team member...
15:53 khall +1
15:54 barton +1
15:54 cc +1
15:54 tajoli +1
15:54 cait do we want to keep it that way? so i can say 'no'? :) heh
15:54 marcelr +1 for XXX :)
15:54 Joubu +1 #QA team member*s*
15:55 marcelr yeah there are more
15:55 pianohacker cait: my understanding of the wording (which I think should be slightly clarified) is that QA team members can choose to say _yes_, not no, on grandfathered patches
15:55 pianohacker khall: is that what you had in mind?
15:55 bag yes sounds about right khall
15:55 khall pianohacker is correct
15:56 bag :)
15:56 cait pianohacker: ah right - can say 'yes'
15:56 Joubu The 's' is important I think
15:56 cait qa team members?
15:56 marcelr Joubu: member is the member at hand
15:56 marcelr the one doing the qa
15:56 cait it's adifference indeed
15:57 Joubu I'd ask for another QA POV in this case, so I won't be alone
15:57 pianohacker that's probably a good thing to put in the guideline
15:57 Joubu What we did for the recovery pwd patchset for instance
15:57 pianohacker it's an existing habit, should be written down :)
15:57 Joubu it did not fit the requirements, *we* agreed to let it pass
15:57 Joubu anyway
15:57 cait hm what about
15:58 marcelr but is not a coding rule
15:58 cait Grandfather clause:  XXX - Patches submitted before the introduction of a new rule may pass QA even if they do not meet the current coding guideline requirements in agreement with the QA team.
15:58 Joubu ok, let's forget that, not important
15:58 marcelr whole team is not needed i guess
15:59 cait #agreed Grandfather clause:  XXX - Patches submitted before the introduction of a new rule may pass QA even if they do not meet the current coding guideline requirements after consulting with the QA team members. ?
15:59 Joubu imo, more than 1 is needed
15:59 cait i am nto sure how to phrase that there shoudl be a window for discussion
15:59 marcelr at discretion of QA team member (and possibly another QAer)
15:59 cait if noone chimes in... that woudl be ok
15:59 marcelr some things are trivial
16:00 barton I like that wording, cait.
16:00 khall I would also like to bring up bug 8753 for a quick discussion and vote. In that but I wrote two scripts, one for display, and the other for CRUD
16:00 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8753 enhancement, P1 - high, ---, charles.farmer, Pushed to Master , Add forgot password link to OPAC
16:00 cait consulting would practically mean asking for opinions - if response is low... so it's up to those who work it out
16:00 khall the general consensus is that we shouldn't do this, so I think this should have a rule as well
16:01 pianohacker khall: do you mean bug 14610?
16:01 cait one thing after the other please
16:01 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=14610 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Signed Off , Add ability to place article requests in Koha
16:01 cait which is the preferred phrasing now? so i can add it to the minutes
16:01 khall cait: yes, you are correct ; )
16:01 cait quick please
16:01 bag yes cait is correct there - phew
16:01 marcelr khall: you cannot catch every exception in a rule (or you don't want to)
16:02 khall marcelr: I was failed qa for something not in the qa guidlines, I don't want that to happen to future developers or forgetful me ; )
16:02 cait i think what rangi said in argentina always applies... rules are good, but rules can be broken  (I choose to read broken as questioned :))
16:02 cait i thin we need to find somethin gin between
16:03 khall right, it's better to allow a rule to get broken than to fail someone who hasn't broken a rule
16:03 tcohen1 joined #koha
16:03 cc maybe less rules but more recommendations
16:03 cait anyway consulting, dicrestion or agreement?
16:03 bag good point
16:03 wahanui I know! The blade went right through that child!
16:03 marcelr i think it should be possible to fail although there is no rule
16:03 marcelr but you should explain of course
16:03 marcelr the rules are just tools :)
16:04 rocio joined #koha
16:04 cait transparency is also key
16:04 khall yes, and a failure without a rule should generate discussion and a new rule
16:04 TGoat joined #koha
16:04 cait so can we finish please with the XXX rule?
16:04 cait so we can move on?
16:04 khall I thought the XXX rule was finished
16:04 barton cait: I'm ok with any of consulting, dicrestion or agreement.
16:05 cait there was discussion about the wording
16:05 khall I would propose PERLXX: CGI scripts that handle CRUD operatiosn ( Create, Rad, Update, Delete ) should all be handled in the same script
16:05 khall ok, let's table my recent discussion and finish XXX
16:05 cait thx
16:05 cait just tell me which, i will log and we can move on
16:06 khall the idea behind XXX is that even if a patch fails the current qa guidlines, a QA'er can still give it a pass if the rules it fails were made after the patch's submission
16:06 cait yes
16:06 khall should we revote, or are we just discussing the specific wording?
16:06 cait i think the question was if one qa'er or after asking other qa'ers for opinions
16:06 cait i think only the wording
16:06 cait if noone insists
16:07 khall well, we can always elevate it to the head of QA ; )
16:07 cait heh
16:07 marcelr only one rule
16:07 cait head of QA is mean i have heard... better not
16:07 cait i will log as suggested if there is no strong opinion
16:07 cait #agreed Grandfather clause:  XXX - Patches submitted before the introduction of a new rule may pass QA even if they do not meet the current coding guideline requirements of the discretion of the QA team member.
16:07 cait ok
16:07 cait next
16:08 cait Kyle suggested a rule about the handling of CRUD operations
16:08 khall PERLXX: CGI scripts that handle CRUD operatiosn ( Create, Rad, Update, Delete ) should all be handled in the same script when possible.
16:08 cait triggered by bug 14610
16:08 khall s/Rad/Read
16:08 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=14610 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Signed Off , Add ability to place article requests in Koha
16:08 cait any questions, comments?
16:08 barton that looks sensible to me.
16:08 Joubu I have failed it, so I am ok with the proposition
16:09 cait I also commented, so ok as well
16:09 marcelr sounds reasonable
16:09 pianohacker I think it's a good rule for future patches; a majority though not all of Koha follows this pattern
16:09 cait hah
16:09 Joubu I have rewritten the admin scripts to follow this pattern
16:09 Joubu using the same $op value would be better
16:09 khall we can include a script to point to as the best example
16:10 Joubu add_form, add_validate, list, delete_confirm, delete_confirmed
16:10 Joubu admin/cities is the smaller one I guess
16:10 marcelr afk
16:10 cait hm modify?
16:10 Joubu add_form
16:11 Joubu There is no need to have a different op, if an id is passed, you are modifying, otherwise you are adding
16:11 khall Joubu: I don't think we need to be *quite* that specific in the rule, but yes, that's what we are looking for.
16:12 cait ok, no general disagreement
16:12 cait i think?
16:12 bag no disagreement here
16:12 Joubu khall: if we don't specify, we will get different wording for the same action
16:12 nengard joined #koha
16:12 Joubu but not important
16:13 cait i think adding an example would be good
16:13 cait as suggested
16:13 cait pointing to an existing file
16:13 Joubu so you can add admin/
16:13 khall Joubu: I understand. We can work out a basic action list later, but I think the example should suffice for now
16:13 cait can we vote please?
16:13 Joubu if everybody had a look at it already
16:13 pianohacker no, though I think we should revisit Kyle's general concern about failing QA for rules not in the coding guidelines after we vote on this :)
16:13 Joubu khall: yep, agreed
16:13 cc We might want to show good examples - an example is more useful than a rule for someone learning the codebase
16:13 barton vote.
16:13 cait cc: totally agree
16:14 khall cc: also agreed
16:14 cait can we have +1 or -1 please?
16:14 khall +1
16:14 barton +1
16:14 cait +1
16:14 Joubu +1
16:14 cc +1
16:14 pianohacker cc: and it can help address Joubu's concern about consistency in the details without having to put them in stone
16:14 pianohacker +1
16:14 kidclamp +1
16:15 bag +1
16:15 jajm +1
16:15 cait #agreed PERLXX: CGI scripts that handle CRUD operatiosn ( Create, Rad, Update, Delete ) should all be handled in the same script when possible.
16:16 cait #info PERLXX shoudl link to admin/ for a good example
16:16 cait ok, any loose ends right now or can we move to next?
16:16 barton next.
16:16 pianohacker cait: what I mentioned above (:13t
16:16 cait ok, go for it
16:16 Joubu It's *my* good example, I don't know if everybody agrees with that
16:17 khall Joubu: I think everyone is happy with it
16:17 cait Joubu: noone disagreed so far... we will see if the topic reappears on next agenda ;)
16:17 barton Joubu++
16:18 pianohacker I'm not pushing for anything dramatic, but I think we should codify that, if a QA team member has concerns about coding style (as opposed to intended functionality not working correctly), they should be either in the coding guidelines or the patch should be used to introduce a new coding guideline in a meeting / koha/devel
16:18 cait I think failing without a coding guileline should actually be an 'in discussion' - it indicates a disagreement about something and it should lead to a discussion with more people / dev meeting
16:18 cait i see this is a defacto actually
16:18 pianohacker cait: I think that's somewhat the practice, but we should connect such things more strongly to the coding guidelines
16:19 Joubu pianohacker: if a dev wants to use a new pattern, the easier is to ask on koha-devel or here on #koha
16:19 khall I think you both agree. It'd like it to be dejure
16:19 pianohacker as it is, the guidelines are incomplete and somewhat unloved
16:19 cait khall: now i need the dictionary
16:19 khall cait: just means it should be a codified rule
16:19 khall de facto - rule in practice
16:20 pianohacker cait/Joubu: the main reason I'd like this (and khall as well, to my understanding), is that it would be much better to have up-to-date coding guidelines that reflect as much as possible of our current practices
16:20 khall de jure - rule codified in law ( i.e. coding guielines )
16:20 cait this is one of the thing sthat I am nt sure it needs to be a rule... it seems more like a right to me... people disagree, it should lead to discussion
16:20 Joubu it's impossible to list all we can do or not do :)
16:20 cait i'd just like to say that i thik we have followed that
16:20 Joubu but if you need to introduce a design change, ask other devs
16:20 khall Joubu: you are correct, but we should do out best to help out those devs that haven't been around for years
16:21 pianohacker so that code can be written to match those practices from the beginning
16:21 pianohacker and what khall said
16:21 cait and disagreeing with QA is fine (well... maybe not that TOO often ;) )
16:21 pianohacker Joubu: I agree not everything can be codified, but as much as is reasonable _should_ be :)
16:21 cait i am just not sure how that would read as a rule
16:22 Joubu pianohacker: yes, that's what we are doing for 90min :)
16:22 cait yeah... running out of time soon :)
16:22 bag :D
16:22 bag ha
16:22 barton aaand on that note... next topic?
16:22 cait i thnk maybe this can be both sides
16:23 pianohacker cait: I'll send a possible wording to the dev list after the meeting :)
16:23 cait if you introduce a design change - aks others... if you don't agree with a qa ruling... bring it to a dev meeting
16:23 khall thanks pianohacker!
16:23 khall QA court!
16:23 cait yeah... i'd like to avoid that a bit heh
16:23 khall jk ; )
16:23 Joubu I definitively agree to have a list of "best pratices" to fill when QAing and vote them on the next dev meeting
16:23 cait i mean it goes both ways - devs shoudl talk about what they do.. as should qa
16:24 cait Joubu: can you give a quick example?
16:24 cait pianohacker: ok i wil action
16:24 Joubu no, I don't have any in mind
16:24 khall the problem is often we get either radio silence or a split down the middle when we discuss things
16:24 cait #action pianohacker to suggest a possible guideline for handling disagreements
16:24 Joubu but I will try to think about that when failing qa
16:24 cait ok
16:25 cait we i think the namespace rule is already passed?
16:25 khall yes
16:25 pianohacker yeah, very very defacto, should be dejure
16:25 khall how about the update to JS4?
16:25 oleonard_ Sorry, but what is JS4?
16:25 pianohacker oleonard_: https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]h_other_variables
16:25 pianohacker khall: because of the new %s support?
16:25 khall right
16:26 cait sorry, help me
16:26 cait did we vote on 'new modules shoudl be in Koha::'?
16:26 khall oh, I mis-understood
16:26 Joubu It has been voted years ago, isn't it??
16:26 cait not in the coding guidelines as of today
16:26 cait an oversight
16:26 khall ok, quick vote on that?
16:26 pianohacker let's get that outta the way
16:27 pianohacker +1 to add 'new modules should be in Koha::'
16:27 talljoy +1
16:27 cait PERL XXX: New modules should be added to the Koha namespace as C4 is deprecated. ?
16:27 khall +1
16:27 cait +1
16:27 cait wording can be refined of course
16:27 pianohacker I agree with cait's proposed wording
16:27 cc +1
16:27 khall also agree
16:27 barton +1
16:28 Joubu +1 # yes please...
16:28 cait #agreed PERL XXX: New modules should be added to the Koha namespace as C4 is deprecated.
16:28 cait ok
16:28 bag +1
16:28 Joubu new subroutine as well actually...
16:28 cait bag, you are too slow :)
16:28 talljoy lol
16:28 cait Joubu: would you have tomove the wholemodule in this case? or just make a new one for the routine?
16:28 pianohacker Joubu: I think that's a bit too tricky to codify
16:29 khall cait: I'd like to table my sub-rule on that ( single argument stuff ) for another meeting so we can get though more important stuff this meeting ; )
16:29 cait we already voted on removing perl 18 / perl 19
16:29 cait i'd like to finish removals if ossible
16:29 cait then we will probably have to stop
16:29 bag (Ginny was distracting me) ;)
16:29 khall what's left for removals?
16:29 Joubu perl11 and perl12?
16:29 cait [kfischer] 'HTML5: Deprecation of the 'prog' and 'CCSR' OPAC themes.' Templats are long gone.
16:30 cait [kfischer] 'PERL11: No CVS - Development has moved from CVS to git.  Therefore the use of CVS keywords $Id$ and $Revision$ should be  discontinued.' Is this rule still needed?
16:30 pianohacker Joubu: things like adding new circ functionality as Koha:: modules without just calling back into a million C4 modules would be a pretty high bar
16:30 cait [kfischer] 'PERL12: VERSION [Deprecated as of start of 3.12 release  cycle] Each module should have a $VERSION variable to preserve  progressive levels of compatibility with dependent code.' A bit  confusing - should remaining VERSION variables be removed?
16:30 cait html5 - is easy i think
16:30 pianohacker I'm up for a vote to remove all of the above, any objections?
16:30 cait the code is no longer there .)
16:30 Joubu pianohacker: yes indeed there are exceptions :)
16:30 cait for the last one, just a question: shoudl re remove existing VERSION variables?
16:31 cait they appeared earlier today in discussion as not being readonly - but i am not sure what they are used for actually
16:31 khall easy enough to do
16:31 Joubu We never used them
16:31 khall I volunteer to remove them if we so wish
16:31 pianohacker would that break any plugin that put the version number in the use statement?
16:32 khall pianohacker: not plugins I'm aware of do that.
16:32 khall plugins can specify a *Koha* version though
16:32 pianohacker then I'd say kill 'em
16:32 cait I think the koha plugins check version differently?
16:32 cc we say run perlcritic at one point but it complains if VERSION is missing
16:32 cait oh
16:32 pianohacker cc: is that configurable?
16:32 cait hm haven't seen that in my qa script - possible we already did?
16:33 Joubu there is certainly a perlcritic rule to remove it
16:33 cc almost certainly -- (if you want to spend time configuring it)
16:34 pianohacker Joubu: are you comfortable volunteering to make perlcritic happy?
16:34 cait hm right now i wonder where i got my perlcritic file from... that it uses
16:34 cait let's postpone that one and vote on the other 2 for now?
16:34 pianohacker yar
16:34 khall sounds good
16:34 cait please vote on removal of html5 and perl12
16:34 pianohacker cait: well, I think we're in agreement about removing the rule
16:34 cait argh
16:34 Joubu Actually I don't understand, we have added some new module without the $VERSION var defined, and the tests passed
16:34 cait perl 11
16:34 khall +1
16:34 cait html5 and perl11
16:34 pianohacker but +1
16:34 cc +1
16:34 tajoli +1
16:34 Joubu +1
16:35 cait Joubu: yeah i think we need to investigate :)
16:35 cait +1
16:35 barton +1
16:35 bag +1
16:35 talljoy +1
16:35 kidclamp +1
16:35 cait #agreed to remove PERL11: No CVS - Development has moved from CVS to git. Therefore the  use of CVS keywords $Id$ and $Revision$ should be discontinued.
16:36 cait #agreed to remove HTML5: Deprecation of the 'prog' and 'CCSR' OPAC themes.' Templats are long gone
16:36 cait ok
16:36 barton *templates
16:36 cait who is going to amek the agreed to changes?
16:36 cait barton: toolate :)
16:36 cait I can try to - but woudl encourage people to check the wiki changes
16:37 cait i can send an email to the list
16:37 cait once done
16:37 cait ok?
16:37 khall cait: let me know when you've done it and I can review it
16:37 barton np.
16:37 tajoli ok
16:38 cait #action cait to apply agreed to changes on the wiki
16:38 cait that way... if i messed up the minutes i will have to sort it out :)
16:38 cait bag: next meeting?
16:38 wahanui it has been said that next meeting is December 5th 18 UTC
16:38 cait forget next meeting
16:38 wahanui cait: I forgot next meeting
16:39 bag looking
16:39 pianohacker should we go for sooner than later, as there's plenty we couldn't get to?
16:39 bag 2nd of March ?
16:39 khall would be nice if we could do bi-monthly dev meetings ( 2 a month ). Is that too often ?
16:39 khall I think sooner would be better
16:39 barton agreed.
16:40 pianohacker it would make these meetings less of a marathon :)
16:40 Joubu I wanted to talk about the 2 last entries...
16:40 bag 16th of Feb
16:40 cait bag: my birthday...
16:40 bag happy birthday cait
16:40 Joubu I should have put them at the beginning
16:40 cait 2nd of march
16:40 bag :D
16:40 cait i think a sooner meeting as we didn#t get through the agenda would be good
16:40 cait i am fine with 16th
16:41 pianohacker it might be a good idea to schedule both now
16:41 barton +1 for the 16th.
16:41 khall +1
16:41 bag ok 16th at 17utc or 19utc
16:41 cait i think once the agenda empties out
16:41 cait we can go monthly
16:41 khall agreed
16:41 bag this one started at 15utc
16:41 khall 15utc was great for me, any reason we shouldn't keep it at that time?
16:41 cait hm would both work for me
16:42 pianohacker khall: ;_;
16:42 cait khall:  for some it's a really bad time :)
16:42 bag khall: oceana couldn’t join
16:42 khall ok, I'd pick 17utc if we were voting on it ; )
16:42 cait 19 utc shoudl be better for them - 8 am if i amnot mistaken
16:42 bag Joubu: 19utc ok for you?
16:42 * khall is an early bird
16:43 Joubu late :)
16:43 bag yeah that’s what I was worried about
16:43 cait i am tired.. i just saw imagined kyle growing wings :) we need to end this meeting :)
16:43 barton 19 utc is fine by me.
16:43 cait ok, so 16th for next meeting
16:43 bag ok let’s do 19utc 16th of Feb
16:43 cait #Topic Next meeting
16:44 cait #topic Next Meeting
16:44 bag then march 2nd we can go back to 15utc most likely :D
16:44 Joubu bag I can try to attend, but not 100% sure
16:44 cait hm... it doesn't work
16:44 bag ok
16:45 cait 19utc then?
16:45 pianohacker +1
16:45 cait +1
16:45 talljoy +1
16:45 tajoli +1
16:45 barton +1
16:45 cc +1
16:45 cait #agreed Next meeting will be February 16 at 19 UTC
16:45 cait #endmeeting
16:45 cait hm did we lose the bot?
16:45 cait that would be not so good
16:46 cait #endmeeting
16:47 barton cait, which bot runs the meetings?
16:47 tajoli quit
16:47 cait @later tell gmcharlt could you take a look at the meetbot/huginn? It seems something went wrong during the dev meeting today.
16:47 cait huginn does
16:47 Joubu khall: No package-scoped "$VERSION" variable found at line 1, column 1.  See page 404 of PBP.  (Severity: 2)
16:47 Joubu Missing "VERSION" section in POD at line 86, column 1.  See pages 133,138 of PBP.  (Severity: 2)
16:47 cait and... also does the laters
16:48 pianohacker @later tell pianohacker HI
16:48 pianohacker .
16:48 pianohacker yeah, it's flubbernucked
16:48 cait hm no gmcharlt online either
16:48 cait maybe some sever problem
16:48 cait will try to do the later... later
16:49 barton heh.
16:49 barton pianohacker: nice word.
16:49 pianohacker @later tell bwsbot physician, heal thyself
16:49 talljoy ha
16:49 oleonard cait++ # thanks for running the meeting
16:49 pianohacker agreed
16:49 bag cait++
16:49 barton pianohacker: it's huginn, I think.
16:49 pianohacker cait++
16:49 pianohacker barton: yeah
16:50 cait hope it was not totally awful
16:50 pianohacker huginn` more often than not
16:50 pianohacker cait: well, you broke the bot
16:50 cait ... right
16:50 cait shame on me
16:50 pianohacker but aside from that
16:50 kidclamp cait++
16:50 barton cait++
16:50 pianohacker Joubu: could you put some quick notes on your thoughts regarding the stuff we didn't get to on the agenda, so somebody else can take point if you can't attend the next meeting?
16:53 Joubu pianohacker: basically I wanted to get feedback on the 2 topics: item-level_itypes pref and merge deleted* tables
16:53 Joubu The ML did not work, so I wanted to try the dev meeting
16:54 bag just curious Joubu what is the benefit of doing a “delete” flag for the borrowers?
16:54 pianohacker Joubu: yeah, I get ya
16:54 cc joubu: I think a lot of places rely on item-level_itypes
16:54 talljoy cait++
16:55 Joubu cc: yes
16:55 Joubu bag, for instance I tried to fix some bug recently (bug 14849, bug 13668, bug 13534, bug 13533, bug 13515) which could be fixed easier with only 1 table
16:56 Joubu It will permit to keep a track of some info
16:56 * bag looking at those bugs
16:56 Joubu and could allow to restore a patron is deleted accidentally (but not a big deal)
16:56 talljoy that would be nice functionality.
16:57 bag ok right I see that would be easier to fix some of those.
16:57 Joubu talljoy: actually we could already implement that, but we will lost some info (foreign keys)
16:58 talljoy right.
16:58 Joubu But I am a bit afraid to find some big problems I have not thought about it
16:58 bag yeah but merging the tables would not cause FK problems right?
16:59 bag either way I’m trying to think of a spot.  no feedback for you Joubu
16:59 Joubu bag merging the table will simplify some problems and allow us to keep a track of some data
16:59 bag right
16:59 Joubu on the other way, we will have to manage some deletion manually (to preserve anonymity)
17:00 bag reports would have to be changed
17:00 Joubu and it will break existing reports
17:00 bag jinx
17:00 bag :P
17:00 Joubu :)
17:01 pianohacker Joubu: one question: the anonimity was related to staff members writing reports, correct?
17:01 bag part of the fix would be a migration of data from deleted borrowers back into borrowers table?
17:01 reiveune bye
17:01 reiveune left #koha
17:01 bag or just drop the functionality of moving data into deletedborrowers and keep the deletedborrowers table?
17:02 Joubu Are you referring to a bug in particular?
17:02 Joubu bag: yes of course
17:03 bag ok
17:03 cait cc: i thik the question is only about removing the preference - not removing the itemtype on item level
17:03 nengard joined #koha
17:04 Joubu pianohacker: are you talking about bug 13668?
17:04 cc cait: ah should have read up on it
17:04 cait cc: also keeping itemtype on bib-level... just have a workflow on how to use them that doesn't has so many ifs
17:04 nengard Hi #koha I'm at a conference teaching open source say hi!!!
17:04 nengard (and be nice you're on the big screen)
17:04 cait they just missed the big meeting :)
17:04 Joubu hi :)
17:04 * cait waves
17:04 oleonard Hi nengard
17:04 cc Hi
17:04 talljoy hi!
17:04 bag hello
17:05 nengard they're waving
17:05 nengard back to work
17:05 nengard left #koha
17:07 pianohacker Joubu/cait: yeah. Granted, I'm just an American, but it seems like a bare borrowernumber given credit for a report is a very innocuous piece of data to be generating this much fuss
17:09 cait ?
17:09 pianohacker cait: bug 13668
17:09 Joubu pianohacker: sorry, didn't get it neither :)
17:09 pianohacker ugh hugiiiiiiiiinn
17:09 pianohacker https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=13668
17:09 cait we really depend on those bots.... shoudl we worry? :)
17:10 Joubu pianohacker: yep, at the moment, without 13668, reports.borrowernumber is kept when the patron is deleted
17:10 pianohacker It seems like knowing just the borrowernumber that created a report is very innocuous
17:10 Joubu pianohacker: with the patch, it will be set to null (because the patron is removed from the borrowers table)
17:10 cait it kidn of woudl be more ok if we ever deleted deletedborrowers... or anonymized
17:10 cait the argument "i want to know who wrote it" is not really valid here for keeping things forever I think :)
17:10 Joubu The idea would be to know how did create the report, even if the patron is "deleted"
17:10 pianohacker I know it's not the only reason you're proposing the merge, but I'm mostly just curious as to why it needs to be wiped out :)
17:11 pianohacker cait: and no, bywater would grind to a partial halt without our bot :)
17:11 cait pianohacker: also, we only store the initial writer... what about someone changes it?
17:11 oleonard pianohacker: Does neatness count?
17:11 cait It's in the logs now, but not really that useful information
17:11 pianohacker okay, so it's not so much an anonimity issue as a database issue?
17:12 cait I think... i'd be ok with it now, as we also need to keep the number in some other places i think
17:12 cait acq
17:13 cait you might not be able to access some things without a borrowernumber in the right places there as the visibility is determined by the person who did things...
17:13 pianohacker acq, the everlasting pile of exceptions...
17:13 cait I initially wrote it up when i was working on our data privacy documentation
17:14 cait maybe too strict - keeping the borrowernumber and working on actually anonymizing/killing a deleted staff member would be good
17:14 Joubu I wrote the patch to avoid that borrowernumber is linked to a nonexistent patron
17:15 cait sorry... not making sense i guess and have to leave :) cya all later
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17:25 Joubu pianohacker: As you can see, it's not clear in my mind :)
17:25 Joubu pianohacker: I need to think about it. That was the idea of my email on koha-devel: try to get more ideas, try to know if it's useful or not :)
17:26 pianohacker yeah. It doesn't help that Koha's database schema isn't really black and white on this point
17:27 pianohacker old_issues which is used vs deletedborrowers/deleteditems/etc. which are really only in reports
17:28 Joubu have to go, see you tomorrow #koha!
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18:18 gmcharlt @quote random
18:18 huginn gmcharlt: Quote #240: "<wizzyrea> we will have no hazing of RM's" (added by gmcharlt at 10:22 PM, April 05, 2013)
18:23 pianohacker bug 12321
18:23 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=12321 normal, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , indicators not editable after linking authority
18:23 pianohacker cool
18:23 pianohacker gmcharlt++
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18:42 pianohacker gmcharlt: any idea why it died?
18:42 gmcharlt pianohacker: Linode in Atlanta sufferred a routing snafu
18:43 pianohacker ah kk
18:46 oleonard My error logs these days are all "CGI::param called in list context from package..." Makes it hard to see the real issues.
18:47 pianohacker do we even have a bug for that yet?
18:49 cait oh you got huginn breathing again
18:50 cait gmcharlt: anyhtng we could do about the meeting logs?
18:52 oleonard pianohacker: Bug 14121 similar?
18:52 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=14121 minor, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, RESOLVED FIXED, Silence warnings t/db_dependent/Auth_with_cas.t
18:56 pianohacker oleonard: yeah, that's the same error
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19:00 gaetan_B bye
19:06 oleonard I imagine there exists a project where the newer bug always gets marked as the duplicate even if it has patches on it.
19:08 cait maybe it's a language thing?
19:08 cait i haven't read all of today's bug mail yet - guess i will find it sooner or later
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20:45 gmcharlt hmm
20:45 gmcharlt #endmeeting
20:46 cait hm, he forgot :(
20:47 gmcharlt hmm, could you try it, cait? since you started the meeting?
20:47 cait sure
20:47 cait #endmeeting
20:47 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to the IRC home of Koha | Code of conduct -[…]/code-of-conduct/ | Please use for pastes | Installation guide for Koha is
20:47 huginn Meeting ended Tue Feb  2 20:47:20 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
20:47 huginn Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-02-02-15.01.html
20:47 huginn Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]6-02-02-15.01.txt
20:47 huginn Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]02-15.01.log.html
20:47 cait oooh
20:47 cait awesome
20:47 gmcharlt ;)
20:47 cait :)
20:47 cait almost complete too
20:47 cait only missing the next meeting date at the end i think
20:48 cait so it must have died pretty to the end of it
20:48 cait thx :)
20:48 cait feeling silly now for not trying that :)
20:53 cait hm bug 15551
20:53 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=15551 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , checked out items not showing on
20:54 cait not sure if it's me misunderstanding or something else?
20:55 cait "... -- checking an item in previously showed other items checked out by the same borrower, which was useful for renewing items and/or telling patrons what items they still had checked out." (on
20:56 pianohacker barton or kidclamp: any insights? ^
20:57 cait barton filed it
20:57 cait :)
20:57 cait but i am pretty sure... it didn't work that way - the recent change is still debatable, but i can't imagine us showing items that haven't been scanned at all?
21:00 kidclamp I think it was a confusion, though the bug title is a good one :-)
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21:00 kidclamp or I guess "not checked out items nto showing" is what i want
21:00 barton I think that I filed it on kidclamp's behalf... he was ... ... 'annoyed' by the new behavior.
21:01 barton ;-)
21:02 cait hm but comment 2?
21:02 kidclamp yeah, what did Karl end up saying barton?
21:03 cait he says items checked out :(
21:03 cait he just commented on the bug
21:03 cait that#s why i was scratching my head
21:04 kidclamp you know, I would read that as that change of items not showing by default on the checkout screen
21:04 kidclamp but I don't know what they were on befroe 3.20
21:04 kidclamp if they came from 3.16 it would make sense
21:05 cait kidclamp: i wanted to file a comment about the changed bheaviour - if people don't like it, we should revisit
21:05 cait but still wouldn#t work like stated on the bug :)
21:05 cait could it have been a jquery trick? some customization that is broken now?
21:06 kidclamp yeah, I think a separate bug
21:07 pianohacker heh: tools/    my @bad_dates;  # I've had a few.
21:07 cait hehe
21:07 pianohacker credit goes to atz apparently
21:07 cait i think there is a haiku somewhere too
21:12 liw yellow leaf falls down / I can yes has cheezeburger / cat hunts mighty mouse
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21:37 cait good night all
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21:39 eythian
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21:42 pianohacker that was a rather rapid descent into complete nonsense
21:44 eythian Yep
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