IRC log for #koha, 2013-09-24

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:11 dcook Hmm, looks like my verification email might be getting blitzed way before it reaches my inbox
00:11 dcook No votes for me..
00:14 Irma joined #koha
00:37 dcook Ooooh. Someone fixed some subject headings in the digital repository and they auto-updated when the OAI-PMH harvester cronjob ran...:D
00:38 dcook (As planned, of course, but always nice when things work as they should)
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01:49 BobB dcook, re:[…]ohacon13/Arrivals
01:50 BobB we arrive within 15 mins of each other (if we're both on time)
01:50 BobB Could share a taxi
01:52 wizzyrea no votes? I find that surprising
01:58 eythian dcook: launchpad
01:58 wahanui i think launchpad is bad because it creates accounts for developers without their consent, without telling them, without any way to opt out.
01:58 eythian wahanui: forget launchpad
01:58 wahanui eythian: I forgot launchpad
02:07 dcook BobB: I was thinking that I would just catch the shuttle on the quarter hour, but a cab could certainly be an idea
02:08 dcook wizzyrea: You can't vote with reputation, and I can't get reputation without the verification email, which isn't getting through :/
02:08 dcook Silencing wahanui, eythian? :p
02:08 wizzyrea ah that stinks
02:08 eythian have you made it resend?
02:08 dcook Yep
02:08 dcook Thrice
02:09 wizzyrea whitelist?
02:09 dcook I asked them for an address
02:09 dcook Our mail servers do get hammered so it probably has an address that gets caught up with the junk
02:10 dcook eythian: Might you have a URL?
02:11 eythian <-- well that's my openid
02:12 eythian <-- and info about using it with 2FA is here
02:13 wizzyrea < who mine came from
02:16 dcook Neato, eythian. I'll have to take a look at this sometime. I keep thinking better security would be a good idea...
02:16 dcook wizzyrea: Thanks, I'll see if that helps
02:18 eythian dcook: I use one slot on my yubikey for openid, and one for SSH:[…]-logins-with-ssh/
02:23 kathryn joined #koha
02:23 dcook Interesting...I was wondering what yubikey was
02:24 dcook So you plug that into your system and then login to launchpad?
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02:27 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
02:30 dcook hey mtompset
02:30 wahanui mtompset is fighting a test writing learning curve to get code in before feature slush.
02:32 eythian dcook: well, I log in to launchpad and if I haven't used it on this computer for a while, it'll ask for the 2-factor code. To get that, I need to plug the yubikey into the computer and press a button.
02:36 dcook Mmm. So you're focused on the screen and then the yubikey inputs it since it acts like a keyboard?
02:36 dcook Erm. eythian^^
02:38 eythian yeah
02:38 dcook Sweet
02:39 dcook I might have to look at getting one..
02:39 eythian the new one I have also does GPG and NFC, which I'm going to play with.
02:39 dcook NFC?
02:39 wahanui hmmm... NFC is no fine clue
02:40 eythian they're cheap enough, US$25 for the regular one, and $50 for the neo which is the NFC and GPG one.
02:40 eythian Near Field Communication
02:40 eythian like phones and RFID cards use.
02:41 dcook Mmm
02:41 eythian and each one can hold two different keys
02:42 dcook Ahh, so it would use NFC with a mobile or whatever else could receive the signal I guess
02:42 eythian yeah
02:43 dcook Sounds like fun
02:43 mtompset The global bug squashing day wasn't as productive as hoped, it would seem.
02:43 dcook I keep thinking about playing around with these technologies more but I'm never really sure to what end
02:43 dcook Aside from signing things, I suppose
02:45 eythian signing, logging in to things, etc.
02:46 jcamins You know what I don't understand? Why can't we Anglo-Americans (sorry, NZers and Aussies; and Canadians) produce data as good as what the Germans produce?
02:47 * dcook is somewhat confused by jcamins
02:47 mtompset Examples?
02:47 wahanui well, Examples is same
02:47 jcamins dcook: the data from BSZ is just so *nice*.
02:47 jcamins Then we have LC.
02:47 eythian jcamins: have you met Germans?
02:47 dcook eythian: I suppose I was thinking about anonymizers, 'secure' operating systems, and so on.
02:47 dcook hehe
02:48 * jcamins shoots self in foot repeatedly.
02:48 jcamins eythian: a few.
02:48 dcook I think everything from BSZ is really nice
02:48 mtompset BSZ?
02:48 wahanui BSZ is right liz :)
02:48 jcamins It really seems to be.
02:48 dcook Competent cataloguers?
02:48 dcook Actually...more than competent?
02:48 eythian dcook: ah right. In theory, you could have a key on the yubikey so that it's required to decrypt your home directory when you boot up.
02:49 dcook Super cataloguers?
02:49 eythian stuff like that.
02:49 wahanui it has been said that stuff like that is why I want to chew people's legs off sometimes
02:49 dcook hehe
02:49 dcook eythian: Of course, that's when I lose the yubikey...although I suppose a person should have backups.
02:50 eythian yeah
02:50 dcook Although then you need to make sure that those backups are encrypted using a different method..
02:50 dcook Or at least accessible via a different method
02:50 eythian though some things involving it aren't able to be backed up
02:50 dcook I meant backups of the home directory
02:50 eythian oh, yeah
02:50 dcook Or is that what you meant as well?
02:50 eythian no, I meant keys
02:51 dcook I suppose you'd want a key that couldn't completely be backed up
02:52 jcamins Uh-oh.
02:52 dcook Bleeding out, jcamins?
02:52 eythian yeah
02:52 eythian not suitable for the sort of people who lose their keys a lot
02:52 jcamins My import process has 1.4g worth of resources.
02:52 jcamins I forgot to change the OOM settings.
02:53 dcook eythian: For sure. Any tips on how someone might get started with all the security things? It seems like there is so much out there. I'm not even sure where to begin. I suppose this would be an idea though..
02:53 dcook Did you get your yubikey overseas or did they ship it?
02:54 eythian dcook: totally depends what you want to do. I've been putting a bit more of an effort into this for the past while, at the same time keeping usability at a suitable level.
02:54 eythian Many things are simple, like encrypted home dirs.
02:54 eythian Then you can move up to GPG signing/encrypting things.
02:55 eythian or using a password manager so you don't have the same login everywhere
02:55 eythian yubikey will post, they come in a regular envelope
02:56 eythian shipping was about US$5 for two of them.
02:57 dcook I suppose I'm skeptical of password managers. If someone gets that, then they get everything.
02:58 dcook Mind you, relying on muscle memory and mental memory to try to have suitable unique passwords isn't so great either.
02:59 eythian dcook: the alternative to having one central place that can be attacked is having hundreds of places, and all someone needs to do is successfully attack one of them
03:00 eythian frame it like that, and it's clear which is the better alternative :)
03:01 eythian[…]/password-hasher/ <-- though actually I use this, which can be totally memory-based.
03:04 jcamins Big news out of OCLC! They have released OCLC numbers to the public domain!
03:04 jcamins Wait...
03:05 jcamins I have an idea!
03:05 jcamins Watch this!
03:05 jcamins 12345678 <-- I have released this number into the public domain
03:05 jcamins 87654321 <-- this one too
03:06 dcook lol
03:07 dcook eythian: Right, but if you have hundreds of places with all different passwords, then you're only liable to lose some data. But yeah, the likelihood of having all different passwords isn't very high.
03:07 eythian jcamins: you can't use the first one, it's my PIN number.
03:08 eythian dcook: yeah, no one does that.
03:08 jcamins Oh, man.
03:09 dcook eythian: I almost do that :p
03:09 dcook But even best passwords are probably still nothing in comparison to the ones that you can generate, store, and manage
03:09 dcook So still pretty clear, as you say
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03:22 eythian anyway, going to have a go using the yubikey as my GPG key. It might get too annoying, not sure yet.
03:23 dcook Sounds like it would be much more complicated
03:25 eythian it's not really. It's just a matter of plugging it in and entering a PIN code (the PIN being cached like your password normally would be.)
03:26 dcook In that case, I look forward to hearing more :)
03:27 eythian[…]-logins-with-ssh/ <-- dcook, I also did this
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03:49 mtompset
03:50 dcook eythian: Thanks for the link. I'll have to read it more thoroughly later.
03:50 eythian np
04:03 eythian Koha 3.12.05 packages uploaded
04:07 dcook eythian++
04:08 wizzyrea \o/
04:08 wizzyrea eythian++
04:09 * dcook tromps off for food
04:14 mtompset nice, eythian. :)
04:27 jcamins @later tell kf Does your data not have 773$a/$t? How does that work? You automatically populate that based on the $w?
04:27 huginn jcamins: The operation succeeded.
04:35 jcamins @later tell kf RAK is weird. Just thought you ought to know.
04:35 huginn jcamins: The operation succeeded.
04:36 mtompset Have a great day, #koha.
04:36 eythian[…]ramming-language/ <-- I don't think we're doing our part as Koha developers.
04:41 eythian Koha 3.10.1 packages uploading
04:42 eythian s/ing$/ed/
04:54 * dcook is intrigued
04:55 dcook I don't think I've seen a single instance of profanity in Koha
04:55 dcook Not even locally :p
04:58 wizzyrea we are all very polite. Plus you don't really want your swearing immortalised in the git repo :P
04:58 wizzyrea at least I don't
05:01 dcook Neither do I
05:01 dcook Actually, I don't really even swear in person
05:01 dcook I'm a Canadian's Canadian, I guess :p
05:05 eythian Koha 3.13 packages uploading
05:05 eythian s/ing$/ed/
05:05 cait joined #koha
05:05 eythian oh hi cait
05:07 cait hi eythian
06:06 * dcook tries to blow up his computer
06:08 dcook Well, the server..
06:08 wahanui well, the server is built on perl catalyst
06:24 cait dcook: blowing up things is not something we shoudl talk about i think
06:24 dcook Mmm, good point
06:25 dcook But at least we're not swearing?
06:25 dcook :p
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06:29 reiveune hello
06:29 wahanui hello, reiveune
06:47 cait bbl
06:47 cait @later tell rangi - could you put QA sprint day in motd please? :)
06:47 huginn cait: The operation succeeded.
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06:51 drojf good morning #koha
06:52 dcook morning drojf
06:52 drojf hi dcook
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06:57 drojf nobody complained so far and vote are coming in, so i take it the kohacon survey works :)
06:57 drojf *votes
06:57 dcook Yep. It was nice :)
06:59 drojf yay :)
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07:05 gaetan_B hello
07:05 Topic for #koha is now QA sprint, run forest run!
07:05 rangi drojf: yep ive voted 8279 times already :)
07:07 drojf rangi: i know you did not :P
07:07 rangi now i have to fire up tor to do it for real
07:07 rangi hehe
07:08 * drojf feels like the nsa
07:08 rangi hehe
07:09 rangi many votes ?
07:09 drojf on the plus side, i can send you targeted travelling ads
07:09 dcook lol
07:09 drojf we are coming close to 30
07:09 dcook Is there a current result page?
07:10 drojf no, i did not do that to prevent craziness
07:10 dcook Probably a wise move
07:10 rangi yeah good idea
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07:12 kf lol thx rangi
07:12 kf @later tell jcamins I can explain the 773 if you show me an example i think
07:12 huginn kf: The operation succeeded.
07:13 drojf hi kf
07:13 kf hi drojf
07:16 christophe_c joined #koha
07:16 christophe_c hello #koha
07:18 samueld joined #koha
07:18 samueld hi everybody
07:19 * kf waves
07:22 rangi hi christophe_c, samueld and kf (and everyone else)
07:22 kf hi rangi
07:23 christophe_c hi rangi ;-)
07:25 kf heh
07:27 rangi hmm was my update to ketan ok?
07:29 rangi drojf: im looking at bug 8897
07:29 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8897 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, mirko, Needs Signoff , Optional GnuPG encryption of outgoing emails
07:30 kf rangi: yep
07:30 dcook Ooo
07:31 rangi it seems to be working fine
07:32 rangi the only bit that im worried about is
07:32 rangi $gpg->gpgbin('/usr/bin/gpg');
07:32 rangi as it might not always be there
07:33 rangi some distros put things in weird places
07:33 rangi however, i think as you do the does_exist check .. it wont throw an error at least
07:34 rangi ah nope
07:34 rangi # TODO: check if gpg binary is found before encrypting to avoid errors
07:34 rangi :)
07:34 rangi heh we obviously think alike
07:34 rangi ill have a think about how we can do that check, and try and do a follow up
07:35 rangi then i think ill be ok to sign off on the original
07:36 dcook Anyone know what happened with bug 7144?
07:36 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7144 enhancement, P1 - high, ---, srdjan, RESOLVED FIXED, Floating collection
07:36 * dcook didn't think that there were floating collections in Koha...
07:36 rangi theres a resurrect bug
07:36 dcook That Kyle did recently?
07:36 rangi yeah
07:37 drojf rangi: thanks for trying! :) yes, the hardcoded path isn't great. it should work for debian and ubuntu at least, i forgot what other distros i looked at. eythian proposed checking $PATH somewhere in the comments
07:37 rangi it got added, it got busted and removed, now its trying to be added again afaict
07:37 kf hm wasn't floating different to rotating?
07:37 kf floating being the setting for the returns on the circulation page?
07:37 rangi oh yeah true
07:37 drojf rangi++
07:38 dcook Hmm
07:38 * drojf hits the shower
07:38 rangi in that case i have no idea dcook
07:38 dcook hehe
07:38 dcook no worries, rangi
07:38 dcook Thanks in any case :)
07:38 * dcook wonders why everyone decides to email with problems on the same day..
07:39 kf dcook: don't say such things
07:39 dcook Oh?
07:39 kf my day just started and i  have a full todo list already - no need to make that happen :)
07:40 dcook Ah, but I said it, so the bad luck should just fall on me ;)
07:41 kf hopefully!
07:48 dcook Mmm, so a rotating collection is one where you temporarily change the "ownership" of the collection
07:48 * dcook would have to look at the code but gets the idea
07:48 rangi floating is one where they dont need to ome back
07:48 dcook Yeah
07:48 rangi come even
07:49 dcook Where they just stay where ever they're checked in
07:49 rangi yep
07:49 dcook I could see the utility of both
07:49 rangi yeah
07:51 dcook A bit confused about the difference between "AutomaticItemReturn" and "HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn" though...
07:52 dcook Or if they were in conjunction
07:52 dcook wth...
07:52 kf we should do some cleanup in the area of those prefs
07:52 kf like homeorholdingbranch and the other that has the complete same description :(
07:52 dcook The difference between "CircControl" and "HomeOrHoldingBranch" would also be nice...
07:52 rangi yep
07:53 rangi somethign i plan for 3.16 is profiles and tidying up sysprefs
07:53 rangi ie, you pick a profile when you install
07:53 rangi and it preselects mostly sane preferences for that
07:53 dcook Mmm, I like that idea
07:53 kf dcook: yep that one - i have filed a bug about that
07:53 dcook Might be difficult to maintain though, rangi
07:54 rangi yep would have to do it in a way that makes its easy to maintain
07:54 dcook I suppose you could have a core set that change based on profile
07:54 rangi probably extending the .pref files
07:54 rangi yep
07:55 kf rangi: like tags for prefs?
07:55 rangi yep, thats the idea
07:55 rangi its only half thought out
07:55 dcook I like the half so far ;)
07:55 rangi something
07:55 wahanui i guess something is fishy
07:56 rangi library types:
07:56 rangi school: no_fines
07:56 rangi public: fines
07:56 kf :)
07:56 rangi ie, what default value should we set
07:57 kf Brooke would love that
07:57 rangi i think special libraries would too
07:57 * dcook nods
07:57 rangi ketan++
08:01 dcook whoever_wrote_csv_export_profiles++
08:02 kf dcook: there are some enhancements for that underway it seems
08:02 dcook For floating collections?
08:02 kf if Joubu can provide some follow-ups... quite close :)
08:02 kf csv export
08:02 wahanui well, csv export is nice as well
08:02 dcook Hmm, neato
08:02 dcook :)
08:02 dcook Koha++
08:02 dcook @karma Koha
08:02 huginn dcook: Karma for "Koha" has been increased 43 times and decreased 3 times for a total karma of 40.
08:03 kf @karma koha
08:03 huginn kf: Karma for "koha" has been increased 43 times and decreased 3 times for a total karma of 40.
08:03 kf koha++
08:03 drojf decreased 3 times? i bet they confused it with the fork :P
08:06 dcook Well the plus and negative signs are right next to each other as well...:p
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08:10 rangi hmm i wonder where Mathieu is going
08:11 kf hm?
08:14 dcook Ah
08:14 dcook I just saw that myself
08:14 dcook I was just thinking that he was getting even more involved. Surprised that he's leaving
08:15 kf what are you all talking about?
08:16 dcook The devel listserv
08:16 dcook Mathieu said that he's leaving the community in a few months
08:16 kf i missed that :(
08:16 kf where?
08:16 kf oh found it
08:18 kf dcook: where do we set circulationconditions? :)
08:18 dcook System preferences, item types page, circulation and fines rules
08:18 dcook Those are only the ones I can think of off the top of my head
08:18 dcook :p
08:18 kf you are overcomplicating thigns :)
08:18 dcook Just too literal :p
08:18 * kf hands you a cookie
08:19 dcook I should have dinner..
08:19 dcook I have a movie in less than an hour..
08:19 dcook Putting in time for getting to skip out to the beach early on Friday
08:19 dcook Btw, it was great
08:19 dcook We ended up climbing some rocks in the bay...then high tide caught us out, so we had to wade through the water
08:19 kf rangi: question for you :) when does the qa queue turn green? I have been trying so hard... :)
08:19 dcook Under knee deep though..
08:19 dcook kf: Magnuse said it was hardcoded
08:20 kf it is, to a certain value i think
08:20 rangi i cant remember ill look
08:20 * dcook wonders where magnuse is now..
08:23 * dcook tries to remember how circ rules work..
08:23 dcook issuing rules is the top layer...
08:23 dcook Then default rules..
08:33 dcook Neato
08:34 dcook Thanks kf
08:34 dcook kf++
08:34 * dcook also enjoys librarians that say thanks :)
08:34 kf :)
08:38 dcook All right. Time for food then bad movie!
08:38 dcook Well, formulaic movie. It might be good.
08:38 dcook s/good/entertaining/
08:38 dcook Night all :)
08:42 rangi kf: naw its not gonna change on the dashboard
08:42 rangi what number do you think it should be below to go green?
08:43 kf hm 40? :P
08:43 rangi hehe
08:43 rangi 30?
08:43 kf passed qa is already green!
08:44 kf 35?
08:44 rangi its always green
08:44 kf oh
08:44 rangi none of them change
08:44 kf oh i thought they did
08:44 rangi nope, not on the dashboard
08:44 rangi but i can make them change
08:44 kf ah, i think i thought about that other sign-off count we have on the gbsd page?
08:44 rangi if you come up with numbers
08:44 rangi yep
08:45 kf hm what about...
08:45 rangi 30 for total
08:45 rangi under 20 for bugs ?
08:45 kf 30 is a really hard goal but ok :)
08:45 kf bit higher for needs signoff maybe?
08:46 rangi yeah 50 for signoff
08:46 kf well, although i hope we will be able to work some of that queue down sometime too
08:46 kf rangi++ :)
08:50 rangi hows that?
08:51 kf checking!
08:51 kf looks good to me :)
08:52 kf thx a lot :)
09:37 kf @wunder Konstanz
09:37 huginn kf: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 11.2°C (11:35 AM CEST on September 24, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 96%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Falling).
09:45 samueld i've installed master on a vm and i've discovered something new : what is course-reserves?
09:46 kf it's a new module... not surehow that is called in french
09:46 kf i only know the german term :)
09:46 kf Semesterapparate
09:46 kf if you set aside certain books for a lecture/course with different circ conditions
09:46 kf like the books students need for that lecture can only be checked overnight
09:46 kf the module gives you a nice presentation for the opac
09:47 kf and also you can apply temporary locations, circ conditions etc. that will revert back to former behaviour when you remove the item from the course reserve
09:55 samueld <kf> thank you for your answer. Course reserves hasn't been translated for the moment.
09:57 kf samueld: it's really new in 3.14
09:58 samueld ok
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11:57 pastebot "nengard" at pasted "looking for some jquery help, i want to change rcvd in the basket to green - none of the following worked quite right" (14 lines) at
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12:14 samueld i've a problem with zebra, when i do zebrasrv -f /home/koha/etc/koha-conf.xml, it doesn't work (zebrasrv doesn't exist). very strange
12:16 oleonard Hi #koha
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12:18 oleonard Joubu: Thanks for your help with Bug 2720 (something we helped sponsor)
12:18 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2720 enhancement, P3, ---, kyle, Passed QA , Overdues which debar automatically should undebar automatically when returned
12:18 oleonard Joubu++
12:21 fredericd Sending a List from the OPAC seems to be broken in 3.12 when using the OPAC in non-English. Can someone confirm the issue?
12:21 * jcamins waves cheerily to fredericd.
12:22 nengard is it possible with jquery to change just part of a string? I can change the color of an entire <p> but I just want to change the color of one word
12:23 pastebot "nengard" at pasted "I just want to change the 'rcvd' part - but this changes the entire line" (3 lines) at
12:23 jcamins nengard: sure, you can make any changes you want to the DOM.
12:23 * fredericd waves cheerily back to jcamins, even I'm not sure to understand exactly what I'm saying.
12:24 jcamins fredericd: we had a lovely dinner with your niece yesterday. :)
12:24 * jcamins is always cheerful after hosting dinner.
12:25 nengard jcamins can you tell me what to change in my jquery to do that?
12:25 * nengard is still learning
12:25 fredericd jcamins: :-)
12:26 jcamins nengard: in pseudo-code: $(find-element).html($(find-element).html()​.replace("text-to-replace","replacement"))
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12:35 pastebot "nengard" at pasted "jcamins i'm almost there ;) what am i missing?" (24 lines) at
12:37 jcamins Quotes and you're mixing HTML and text indiscriminately, respectively.
12:39 nengard I need to had html around the text to style just that bit of text (or so I thought) and the quotes seem nested right to me, can you point me in the right direction to see what you see?  I did double quotes around the values and single quotes in the html
12:41 jcamins You don't have any quotes at all in the second example, and text() returns strips out all HTML.
12:42 nengard so 'replace' is text only
12:42 nengard ?
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12:45 kf fredericd: i think i filed a bug - the changes we made for the cart never were ported to the list email
12:45 kf fredericd: but it's the same problem I am afraid - translations don't work right for plain text files :(
12:46 oleonard Bug 10605?
12:46 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10605 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , Problems with translated cart email sent from OPAC
12:47 kf oleonard: that's the cart and a new bug - it worked in between :(
12:47 kf it's quite a mess actually
12:48 kf bug 8368
12:48 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8368 critical, P5 - low, ---, fridolyn.somers, NEW , List email broken for non english templates
12:48 oleonard nengard: Where does this string appear in Koha?
12:49 nengard in acq in a basket with a received item
12:50 nengard I just don't understand the comment about using text and html indiscriminately ... since i don't know jquery functions well enough ... reading google results now :)
12:52 Pablo joined #koha
12:53 nengard hey want about the wrap() function ... or will that wrap the entire paragraph?
12:53 nengard off to try it
12:54 oleonard I should go back to working on Acquisitions navigation sometime... Still very confusing..
12:55 nengard heh
12:55 nengard i do agree
12:55 nengard you want me to find you a link you can use?
12:56 oleonard No I want Acquisitions navigation to make sense! :P
12:56 nengard well okay then :)
12:56 fredericd kf: I can't find the bug you filled. I confirm your diagnostic. For cart, the text was encoded in HTML to be translatable, and the converted into Text using html2text TT plugin.
12:57 fredericd I will propose a patch
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12:58 oleonard nengard: jcamins' pseudo-code was exactly correct. You need only replace $(find-element) with the selector which finds the relevant <p>
12:59 oleonard In place of "text-to-replace" you put the text you want to replace: "rcvd"
13:00 nengard the <p> doesn't have an id - the <tr> does - but it has 2 different ones (it's one of those color toggle things)
13:00 tcohen good morning #koha
13:00 oleonard nengard: You already had your selector correct
13:00 nengard oh whew
13:00 nengard :)
13:01 nengard and my text to replace is right
13:01 nengard so the part that's not right is what i'm replacing it with
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13:01 Pablo Good morning Tomás and all!
13:03 kf fredericd: we posted them earlier, let me see
13:03 kf fredericd: 8368, 10605
13:05 Pablo I was wondering if there is a more or less easy way to change MARC 21 help (the "?") on cataloguing framework, from Full manual to Concise version.
13:06 Pablo I could "concise/" on source code, but I feel dirty
13:06 Pablo *add
13:09 tcohen i don't follow you Pablo
13:09 fredericd kf: +1 thanks. 10605 is more another issue with cart when translated text contain non-ASCII characters?
13:10 kf let me check
13:10 kf fredericd: i tihnk it was encoding and structural problems - i filed it but hadn't time to go back to it
13:11 kf fredericd: but before you take a look at that code to fix the lists... better be aware of other problems with it
13:11 Pablo You are cataloguing something on koha/cataloguing/, you can see "100  ? - MAIN ENTRY--PERSONAL AUTHOR"
13:11 kf the new jquery documentation layout is nice
13:11 kf unrelated comment :)
13:11 Pablo <a class="marcdocs" onclick="PopupMARCFieldDoc('100', 1); return false;" href="#">
13:12 tcohen i know a lot about the ?, what do you want to change?
13:13 fredericd kf: You're correct, there may be relations between both bugs.
13:13 tcohen do u want that to link to some other place?
13:15 Pablo Yes, I know you know :).​Instead of here they want​​ something like[…]oncise/bd100.html
13:16 tcohen interesting Pablo, you can achieve that using javascript if is just a path change
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13:21 Pablo mmm dirty :P And what about changing intranetuserjs, overriding the function?
13:21 kf Pablo: that's the same effect and both work the same
13:21 kf hm i think i misunderstood
13:22 kf sorry
13:22 blou Holà, Kohaers!
13:22 * kf waves
13:22 blou kohaists?
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13:23 blou Anyone knows if we already have a Perl package in our dependencies that "generate a unique id" ?
13:24 blou We're using Data::UUID, but I don't want to add that if we could do it differently.
13:24 jcamins We do have something that does that.
13:25 jcamins Hm. Maybe not.
13:25 jcamins Just String::Random.
13:32 blou just found it.  Yes, I think that would do it.  Thanks!
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13:32 Pablo Thanks! And what you think about me fill a bug (wish) to add a system preference on cataloging section, to choose between Full and Concise MARC 21 manual help?
13:32 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
13:34 kf Pablo: i think making it configurable would be nice - there might be translations to link to in the future
13:34 kf Pablo: having the link configurable with a placeholder for marc and subfield information maybe?
13:34 kf but ig uess not totally easy
13:36 tcohen Pablo, fill the bug
13:36 Pablo Just to add the Concise alternative might be easy (I'm not sure if exist always a concise version for any field). But language alternative seems more difficult, since LOC (AFAIK) doesn't​​provide an API
13:37 kf Pablo: yeah, and German translation only exists as a pdf :(
13:38 Pablo Same with Spanish :(
13:38 tcohen not to speak about UNIMARC...
13:39 tcohen i was about to post a patch for having ? in authorities cataloguing
13:39 tcohen but UNIMARC only has a PDF
13:39 Pablo There is a bug about that (marc 21 help for aithorities)?
13:40 Pablo That would be great!
13:41 kf oleonard: around maybe?
13:41 oleonard Somewhat
13:41 wahanui Somewhat is probably not the adjective I would use
13:41 kf i am pondering a change a librry wants and am missing the right idea
13:42 kf i am trying to change the h1 text on the patron suggestions form and the 2 p
13:42 kf because they want their own text :)
13:42 tcohen Pablo: no bug filled for that
13:42 kf i have an id that is for all - h1 p p form
13:42 kf and i want to replace h1 p p
13:42 kf everything i try seems overly complicated
13:43 kf like... inserting after the h1... removing the other tags after...
13:44 tcohen are these all the MARC21 fields?
13:46 pastebot "oleonard" at pasted "Replacing text on suggestions form" (4 lines) at
13:46 kf oleonard: gah. thx :)
13:47 Pablo tcohen: I'm pretty sure
13:49 kf oleonard++
13:49 kf thx for giving my brain a kick in the right direction :)
13:52 drojf mtompset: you could increase the chance of others signing off on your patches by signing off on other patches, limiting the range to choose from. ;)
13:52 mtompset range?
13:52 wahanui range is defined from its beginning to its end, in drojf's understanding it should include the whole 2013-06-02
13:55 drojf the sum of all patches that need a signoff
14:02 mtompset drojf: I suppose I feel the same trepidation that others feel. "Do I even know how to test this to sign off?" I am working on starting sign offs.
14:02 drojf that is why we have test plans. and you will learn a lot about koha. ;)
14:03 oleonard ... and if the patch doesn't have a good enough test plan for you to understand how to test it, you can make a comment about that
14:03 kf testing patches is also good training for developers... I think :)
14:04 * drojf heads home
14:04 oleonard At the very least it teaches us about what is and isn't a good test plan!
14:05 Pablo Another one: On we have "Cataloging" (en_US), but koha folder on Koha is "cataloguing" (en_UK). There is a defined convention about what English flavor to use?
14:09 Pablo Or should I say "flavour"? :)
14:10 mtompset Whatever English is natural to you when using bugzilla? I never really thought about it for myself.
14:15 tcohen jcamins?
14:15 wahanui ask him about serials and/or acquisitions.
14:15 jcamins No, don't!
14:15 tcohen what english flavor should we stick to?
14:15 jcamins Whichever you prefer, really.
14:16 oleonard In Koha, American english is the standard we follow in the "en" templates
14:16 Pablo Is not a BIG issue, but sometimes I don't know what keyword use while searching.
14:19 tcohen it looks you'll need to use a logical or in your searches :-D
14:21 Pablo So using a convention is not possible...?
14:22 Pablo marcfalvour should be marcflavor, and cataloguing cagaloging, if using American English
14:23 oleonard Bugzilla is used by people all over the world with varying English skills, so it is to be expected that reports are inconsistent
14:24 tcohen yeah, think of spanish-native speaking guys like me, using spanish-isms all over the place
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14:28 alaquerre Hi all, is there any way to know how many users are currently using Koha on the server ?  We currently have strange slowest for some client and we can't tell what's going on exaclty ? Load look's good but some query can take up to 20-30 seconds ( Return a document)...
14:37 jcamins alaquerre: you could check all current connections.
14:38 jcamins (using netstat)
14:41 tcohen netstat -atpn | grep -c apache
14:41 jcamins Hey, cool.
14:41 jcamins I never knew about that.
14:42 jcamins (-p)
14:46 tcohen :D
14:49 Pablo I was talking about bugs.koha-community but just giving an example, I was proposing to choose a convention about what English to use all over the code and Koha default interface
14:49 jcamins Pablo: in the actual interface, everything is US English.
14:49 jcamins Or should be.
14:50 jcamins Well- other than file names, which are almost exclusively NZ English.
14:50 oleonard ...or French.
14:50 jcamins Right.
14:51 alaquerre Thanks!
14:55 druthb o
14:55 druthb o/
14:57 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 10803: make "Make payment" in circ easier to translate <[…]4bdde79932bb4edcf>
14:59 jenkins_koha Starting build #119 for job master_maria (previous build: SUCCESS)
15:05 reiveune bye
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15:15 Pablo jcamins: Thanks! I'm happy to know that at least exist a convention
15:15 tcohen julian maurice?
15:15 jcamins julian_m.
15:15 wahanui Good luck getting ten words out of this one...
15:16 tcohen julian_m++ # for caring about my language selection via URL patches
15:16 Pablo Bug created: MARC21 documentation links: Change between Full and Concise manual​illa3/show_bug.cgi?id=10940
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15:30 mtompset tcohen++ # thanks for the sign off on the improve INSTALL.ubuntu. :)
15:31 jenkins_koha Starting build #370 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: SUCCESS)
15:31 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs build #370: SUCCESS in 10 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]ob/Koha_Docs/370/
15:31 jenkins_koha * Nicole C. Engard: update merging image
15:31 jenkins_koha * Nicole C. Engard: update label creator images
15:43 oleonard We'll have to wait for more information before proceeding with voting.
15:43 jcamins We will?
15:44 oleonard Well, if you feel it makes a difference to the way you vote you should wait.
15:44 gmcharlt with only two choices this year ... does it matter?
15:44 jcamins Since there are only two options, it comes down to "which one got the most votes in position 1?"
15:44 gmcharlt exactly
15:45 oleonard Okay, so say so on list?
15:47 tcohen jcamins, that means weights would be 1 and 0
15:47 jenkins_koha Project master_maria build #119: SUCCESS in 48 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]master_maria/119/
15:47 jenkins_koha Katrin Fischer: Bug 10803: make "Make payment" in circ easier to translate
15:48 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10803 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, katrin.fischer, Pushed to Master , "Make payment" in circ is not easily translatable
15:48 jcamins tcohen: actually, I was going to use the proof for weights 2 and 1.
15:49 tcohen oh, you're right: as it is mandatory to choose both
15:50 jcamins tcohen: even if it weren't, I have a mathematical proof.
15:50 tcohen so, there's no case 2 this time
15:51 gmcharlt oleonard: I've done so; the only case I think it could possibly matter is if there were actually a groundswell of folks who for, whatever reason, firmly believe that KohaCon should be in neither location
15:51 nengard anyone around who can look at/test this report:[…]Unique_Management
15:51 nengard I get a useless syntax error on it
15:51 nengard ERROR 1064 (42000): You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near '' at line 10
15:52 nengard I tried removing all spaces and double spaces and other characters, not sure what else to do
15:54 oleonard A KohaCon choice of "neither" is an interesting idea, but would require, I think the consent of those proposing to host. They might want to host a con no matter how many people sign up.
15:54 jcamins If you won't go to either, don't vote.
15:54 jcamins That's how I'd look at it, and I think how most would think about it.
15:55 kf hm guess the problem is more if you would only be able to attend one of the locations
15:55 kf but not in the other?
15:55 rambutan <purely idle speculation> What would happen if there were two or more sites, and after a period of voting the lead site experienced some issue (natural disaster perhaps) that would be cause for reconisderation?
15:55 oleonard jcamins: If someone didn't want to host if not enough people were interested it would be a way to handle it
15:55 jcamins oleonard: I see.
15:56 rambutan reconsideration too
15:56 gmcharlt nengard: it's missing a closing parenthesis at the end of the 7th line
15:56 nengard thank you!!!
15:57 nengard i'll update the wiki
15:57 gmcharlt rambutan: presumably they would say, and then there would be either a revote or the other site would asked they would be still willing to do it, and get it by default
15:57 gmcharlt rambutan: or open up a (brief) proposal period
15:58 jcamins tcohen: actually, in the case where 100% of the people voting for one site didn't vote for the other, but 100% of the people voting for the other voted for the first, you could end up with a tie. But in that case both results are non-optimal.
15:59 jcamins And you have to resort to counting top choice because otherwise you have to ask every single person who voted for both to clarify their intent.
16:00 tcohen i agree jcamins, and i personally prefer a black and white vote
16:00 tcohen /voting/
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16:01 jcamins Well, I suppose we could probably change results slightly by greatly increasing the point value.
16:01 rambutan We need slef and thd to be here. I'm completely fascinated by systems like the McFarsen Klabber Partial-Derrivative Semi-Weighed Quasi-Preference Voting System.
16:01 jcamins So top choice gets 10 points, second choice gets 9 points.
16:01 jcamins rambutan: exactly!
16:02 gmcharlt rambutan: heresy!  you want the /Modified/ McFarsen Klabber Partial-Derrivative Semi-Weighed Quasi-Preference Voting System!
16:03 rambutan ah, of course, forgot that Modified version!
16:03 rambutan version 3.09.11 I think is current
16:05 oleonard Only a facist would use anything but the 27th revised McFarsen Klabber Partial-Derrivative Semi-Weighed Quasi-Preference Voting System
16:05 rambutan I am, btw, being quite serious. I immensely enjoyed the last session some time ago about the various preference voting systems. It added greatly to my knowledge of the world.
16:05 mtompset nengard... is the inner select empty?
16:05 rambutan I spent lots of time on wikipedia while the discussion was in progress
16:06 mtompset where field not in () gives a syntax error.
16:07 drojf if i would have known you people enjoy voting systems, we could have had a meeting or two to discuss it :)
16:08 drojf maybe there is even some folk dance group on youtube to explain them all, like the sorting thing
16:08 gmcharlt rambutan: I actually do see the point of preferential voting system and agree that they're interesting -- but not if there are only two choices, and I find there's a distressing tendency for folks to get mired in the details of the voting system to avoid making decisions
16:08 rambutan Well, put it on the topic list for KohaCon 2013. :)
16:08 nengard mtompset it was a closing )
16:08 jcamins drojf: that'd be awesome!
16:09 jcamins drojf: doesn't look like it. :'(
16:09 drojf oh. unfair :'(
16:09 drojf you could record something like that in reno :D
16:09 jcamins drojf: you should get your university to do one.
16:09 mtompset nengard, really? Where?
16:10 jcamins drojf: how many Hungarian folk dance groups do you think we're going to have?
16:10 nengard i fixed it on the wiki after gmcharlt pointed it out
16:10 drojf jcamins: i hope "a lot" :)
16:11 mtompset there... ah.
16:11 jcamins Heh.
16:11 gmcharlt nengard++
16:11 jcamins drojf: bad news...
16:11 wahanui somebody said bad news was that you're probably royally screwed
16:11 drojf only some?
16:11 drojf a few?
16:12 * jcamins can't bring himself to tell drojf the unfortunate truth.
16:12 pastebot "tcohen" at pasted "How does it look to you?" (5 lines) at
16:12 kf jcamins: now say it!
16:12 jcamins kf: but drojf will be crushed!
16:13 drojf oh. i should make my 2014 vote depend on that
16:13 kf the force is strong within him....(or something like that)
16:13 jcamins Heh.
16:14 drojf kohacon should always take place besides tha annual conference of hungarian folk dance groups
16:14 drojf the
16:14 drojf i mean next to. or in the same room
16:14 drojf they could dance template toolkit too!
16:16 * oleonard doesn't get it
16:16 kf jcamins: so no crushing going to happen?
16:17 jcamins oleonard: oh, you've missed out.
16:17 kf because i wanted to leave..
16:17 jcamins kf: I just can't.
16:17 kf how am i supposed to do qa with not knowing?
16:17 kf hm without knowing?
16:17 kf jcamins: you are so mean! :)
16:17 kf bye all :)
16:18 kf left #koha
16:27 gaetan_B bye!
16:29 tcohen gmcharlt:
16:29 tcohen i wrote that as a feature fr package upgrades
16:29 tcohen (defaults to no)
16:30 gmcharlt tcohen: seems reasonable, though I wonder if it should be making a backup of each file it touches
16:30 gmcharlt (just in case, of course)
16:31 tcohen do we have that for the DB update?
16:39 jcamins oleonard: <-- sorting and folk dance
16:42 oleonard I like the top comment on this one:
16:43 jcamins Heh.
16:45 jcamins Wow... watching them without sound is kind of bizarre.
16:48 mtompset paul_p++ # thanks for the secondary scenario example. :)
16:52 drojf gmcharlt++
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17:16 mtompset gmcharlt++ # like the idea of potential regional KohaCon's running.
17:33 drojf we can all do our own kohacon. at home. on irc
17:33 drojf oh, that is now
17:35 mtompset Where is druthb to throw skittles when silliness arises? :P
17:35 * druthb chucks skittles at mtompset
17:35 * mtompset ducks, and they hit drojf.
18:00 tcohen is there a way to define some char to be removed when searching for patrons?
18:01 tcohen (e.g. I could want to remove dots from a cardnumber, 28.118.401 -> 28118401)
18:03 cait tcohen: i think not currently
18:03 cait tcohen: why would you enter the dots?
18:03 cait if it's not saved like this in the database?
18:04 tcohen reusing university's id cards wrongly designed
18:05 tcohen i thought a search for 28.118.401 should give 28118401 as a result, they are really close
18:06 cait but not exact and this is searching mysql
18:07 cait hm i think maybe you can make the scanner do it
18:07 cait some can be quite extensibly programmed
18:10 mtompset jcamins, gmcharlt -- I have forwarded your feedback to the librarian colleague driving this project and my supervisor. Even if it is not the best solution for our scenarios, it does meet lesser scenario's needs.
18:11 jcamins mtompset: it would be difficult to express how bad an idea I think it is.
18:11 gmcharlt mtompset: thank you, I really appreciate your taking our concerns seriously
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18:25 mtompset[…]/share/7817104896
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18:35 tcohen thanks cait
18:35 cait hm and there are barcode filters...
18:35 cait and i probably don't quite understand what you wan tto do :)
18:40 tcohen i want to strip dots out of cardnumbers read using a bracode scanner
18:43 cait oh ok
18:43 tcohen for a library who's designer made wrongly print 3000+id cards
18:43 cait then maybe the advice was not so bd
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18:44 tcohen yes thanks
18:45 gmcharlt employ the designer in hand-entering barcode numbers at the circ desk for a month? ;)
18:45 gmcharlt but seriously, cait's right, there's a decent chance the scanner could be programmed to strip the periods
18:50 jeff depends on the scanner. the one on my desk can add, but not remove characters.
18:51 gmcharlt yeah, really depends on the specific model
18:55 jeff in theory, you could add some javascript to or some perl to to strip the characters in question. there might be other places where you'd need to do the same thing, and it would be a bit of an unfortunate hack either way.
18:55 jeff or, new feature! ;-)
18:55 cait we actually have barcode filters
18:55 cait but they don't work everywhere
18:55 cait i think only in circ
18:55 cait but we haven't really used that feature
18:55 jeff cait: i was looking for those, but didn't find them for patron numbers.
18:56 cait jeff: ah you might be right
18:56 cait only working for items maybe
18:56 cait i think maybe storing the dotted number in alias could work
18:56 cait or a searchable patron attribute
18:57 jeff itemBarcodeInputFilter in syspref with a multi-select containing a few options.
18:58 jeff cait: sounds like there's potential there (storing the "dotted" variant in a searchable field)... works if all of the cards in question have been assigned to students already. little more manual trouble if they're still being assigned.
18:59 jeff (though, i suppose no manual trouble if the students are imported from elsewhere and not manually entered into koha)
18:59 * jeff has some empathy for "we have weird barcode requirements"
18:59 cait we once had a library with ß in their patron barcodes...
18:59 cait all kind of troubles
19:04 jeff we allow patrons to use state license/ID cards, which have numbers in the barcode data that change every time you get a new card. we get to strip a variable amount of data from each barcode when scanned -- and we must lowercase the initial letter if the barcode scanner didn't already. :-)
19:09 drojf browsers[…]MAAoJ0Q.jpg:large
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19:32 tcohen bye #koha
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21:25 wizzyrea jeff you keep state issued ID numbers in your DB?!
21:26 wizzyrea danger, will robinson.
21:26 wizzyrea holy liability, batman!
21:30 jeff we also store patron names and birth dates. shocker, i know.
21:31 cait we only got names, no state issued ids or birthdates
21:36 jeff how about email addresses or phone numbers?
21:36 wizzyrea yea, but you can't sign up for a bank account with only a name and a phone number.
21:37 wizzyrea but you can with a name, a phone number, a birth date, and a state issued ID number
21:38 wizzyrea bank account, credit card, loan.
21:38 wizzyrea identity theft stuff.
21:41 jeff I can't recall every detail of every bank account I've ever opened, but those that I do remember required my SSN, and made no request for my drivers license number.
21:41 jeff perhaps "state id" is a more regional thing, and the term has other meaning elsewhere.
21:43 * gmcharlt had Googled -- in the US, some banks do allow checking accounts to be opened with just DL# -- but that's meant for foreigners; U.S. citizens and permanent residents are, I suspect, almost always expected to supply an SSN or a TIN
21:44 jeff in any case, we are subject to laws regarding disclosure of library account data that we do keep, up to and including personal liability for library staff.
21:45 wizzyrea At least you've got insurance.
21:45 wizzyrea pretty embarrassing for the library if you did ever have a staff account get compromised though
21:45 jeff *nod*
21:46 jcamins I had to provide both DL and SSN, but only the former had to actually be provided in hardcopy.
21:46 jeff regardless of if someone's drivers license was included in that data or not.
21:46 wizzyrea that's not data I would require of patrons or keep in the library system database - if I had to have it, I would keep it in hard copy.
21:47 wizzyrea me personally
21:47 jcamins Sorry, I meant to open a bank account.
21:47 jeff arguably "here are all of the people that have a hold on book X" is just as if not more embarassing as "here is Tom's drivers license number (which if Tom was born before X can be calculated using only his name and date of birth anyway)
21:47 jcamins My library accounts were actually obtained using only a piece of mail.
21:47 wizzyrea mine too
21:48 jcamins Oh, the first one required a lease.
21:48 jcamins But then I was able to use the fact that I had a library card as proof of residency to get additional cards.
21:48 jeff so we try not to have the "we don't have drivers license numbers, therefore we don't need to be conscientious about security" mindset
21:50 wizzyrea yea, I think it's best to a. not keep it and b. still be conscientious about security.
21:50 wizzyrea glad you have a policy that seems to work for you.
21:50 jeff and try to maintain the attitude of "one of our responsibilities is to protect the personally identifiable information of our patrons, without exception"
21:52 jeff wizzyrea: always the convenience and business requirements vs security trade-off. :-)
21:53 * wizzyrea often has unpopular opinions regarding the business requirements surrounding borrower data
21:53 jeff sorry if i was overly... enthusiastic in my response. always good to re-evaluate these things over time. :-)
21:53 wizzyrea nah all good
21:54 jcamins jeff: you were working on some sort of API for EG, weren't you? Where would I find the code for that?
21:54 jeff if 50% of our patrons in a given day didn't choose to use their drivers license to check out books, it might be a less complicated thing to decide "we don't need drivers license numbers anymore!"
21:55 wizzyrea out of curiosity, why is that even an option?
21:55 jeff jcamins: has the original experiment from April. I'm interested in reviving it, especially if others are interested.
21:56 jcamins Thanks.
21:56 jcamins I need a push API for Koha/EG.
21:56 jeff jcamins: feel free to pester me here or in #evergreen
21:56 jeff push in what sense?
21:56 jeff (and "need" in what sense, for that matter :-)
21:58 jeff wizzyrea: patrons often forgot their library card at home, but would have a drivers license with them. someone determined that it was possible to scan the drivers license, we started offering the option, and it was met with much interest and appreciation by our patrons. we've been offering it as an option ever since.
21:58 wizzyrea and of course a card is required to issue, so if you forget your card you're out of luck?
21:59 gmcharlt which speaks to the general issue that as a class, patrons are less sensitive to patron info security issues than the librarians are
21:59 jeff wizzyrea: if you come in without your library card or drivers license or other photo ID, yeah -- we're not going to be able to replace your card or open a new account.
21:59 wizzyrea but to issue an item?
21:59 jcamins jeff: a service that will push out updated bib records to a discovery layer as they're changed, rather than having the discovery layer requesting updates.
22:00 * jcamins goes out to pick up veggies.
22:00 jeff gmcharlt: yes. and that rubs against one of my pet peeves -- libraries that deny users a requested feature/service because "you don't really want THAT! since YOU aren't thinking of your privacy, we shall make the decision for you!" ;-)
22:00 wizzyrea gmcharlt: for the sake of argument, isn't it part of the library's job to educate people about such things?
22:01 wizzyrea so they can check out items without a card?
22:01 jeff wizzyrea: yes, without card, no checkout. that was what led to the original desire to add an additional option for card.
22:01 * gmcharlt thinks I know a possible panel if there's ever a joint Koha-Evergreen conference :)
22:01 * jeff grins
22:01 gmcharlt and I know who the panelists are
22:01 * wizzyrea does not volunteer ;)
22:01 gmcharlt but...
22:01 gmcharlt jeff: yes
22:01 gmcharlt wizzyrea: yes
22:02 wizzyrea in truth, I can't think of a single thing, besides possibly debt collection (and DONT get me started on fines. Really, just don't)
22:02 gmcharlt also: yes, the FBI really did try to access liibrary records inappropriately
22:02 jeff jcamins: ah. that's not something that has been touched on in this experiment, but i know that there are a few options out there. somewhat depends on semantics in terms of pull -- polling for changes vs querying every bib, or calling a service on interval with "these changed -- ask me how", etc.
22:02 gmcharlt also: yes - patrons are adults too
22:02 wizzyrea that would *require* a drivers license for.
22:02 gmcharlt it's not easy
22:03 wizzyrea using the license as a card number because it's convenient and people have it with them, yea it's a 'nice service' but... I am still highly dubious of this.
22:03 wizzyrea but I am glad it works for you
22:04 wizzyrea a compromise could be to store the borrower's picture and not require cards.
22:04 wizzyrea for issuing.
22:04 wizzyrea of *course* you would have to have ID to reissue a card or get a new account
22:05 wizzyrea I don't argue that, you have to authenticate people
22:05 wizzyrea but you don't have to store it.
22:05 jeff we also stored license number before we started using them on cards -- i don't know the history on that, but think i'll find out.
22:05 wizzyrea and now that I've thrown ALL THE BOMBS. ^.^
22:06 wizzyrea
22:06 jeff jcamins: your push changes for bibs (and holdings?) interest interests me. love to chat more at a later time.
22:07 wizzyrea jeff do you run Koha or evergreen?
22:07 wizzyrea out of curiosity
22:07 jeff wizzyrea++ Received "Grenade"!
22:07 jeff wizzyrea: Evergreen. :-)
22:08 cait good night all :)
22:08 * jeff departs for home
22:08 jeff nite for now!
22:08 wizzyrea safe travels :)
22:09 cait jeff: another angle - they are adults, but if you can't provide the necessary measures to keep critical data save, you shouldn't store it as institution :)
22:10 cait and data you don't need, you shouldn't store... things like that
22:10 wizzyrea ^^ this, I think, is mostly my concern, especially considering that many Kohas, at least, are internet facing for the staff client.
22:10 wizzyrea I worry perhaps a bit less about evergreen in that regard.
22:10 wizzyrea since it has a desktop client (or it did last time I checked, I admit I don't keep super good tabs on how evergreen works)
22:11 cait wizzyrea: not sure thatwould make much of a difference
22:11 wizzyrea it does if joe leet haxxor can't access a login screen from his house
22:12 cait yeah, but he can stil download the client :)
22:12 wizzyrea but he'd have to have connection information ^.^
22:12 wizzyrea which probably isn't public
22:12 cait yeah, but similar to koha i think?
22:13 wizzyrea mmm not as I understand it - it's more like sirsi's workflows I thought.
22:13 cait ishould really go :)
22:13 wizzyrea whereas a koha, you can just find the staff client login page on the public internet
22:13 * cait waves
22:13 wizzyrea later
22:14 cait left #koha
22:15 wizzyrea sorry everyone, I haven't slept well in days and that probably has something to do with the enthusiasm I'm currently having for being argumentative. I don't mean to offend anybody.
22:18 eythian hi
22:25 tcohen hi #koha
22:29 tcohen eythian: for testing the SIP-server-running, is there anything special to set the SIP portion?
22:29 tcohen or it is just koha-enable-sip ; koha-start-sip
22:29 eythian you probably need to customise the config file.
22:30 tcohen any tweaking needed? (I know nothing about how SIP is setup)
22:30 eythian but if you don't, yes
22:31 tcohen also, would you mind drinking a beer and thinking how should an "automatic translations update" be implemented in packages?
22:31 tcohen i wrote one possible implementation[…]ranslation_update
22:32 eythian tcohen: hmm. The best way probably is to make the languages built with the packages
22:33 eythian really it just needs a bit of testing and maybe updating.
22:33 eythian though if we don't want to do that right now, I'll dwell on it for a bit :)
22:33 tcohen eythian: agreed, i volunteer if you need some testing
22:33 tcohen guess is gmcharlt's call then
22:34 tcohen i see a screwdriver and think its cool to use it (command line admin scripts)
22:34 tcohen but of course i'd favour better approaches
22:34 gmcharlt does it make sense to make language-translation-packages
22:34 gmcharlt e.g,. apt-get install koha-translation-fr-FR ?
22:35 eythian the current method doesn't, but the package method would
22:35 tcohen that's what eythian proposes
22:35 tcohen koha-l10n-fr-FR
22:36 rangi jcamins++
22:36 gmcharlt thank you, that turned up the examples I was seeking
22:36 jcamins rangi: what did I do?
22:36 gmcharlt reasonable to have the l10n packages be built more or less automatically?
22:37 eythian that's the plan
22:37 tcohen is it a good hackfest project? or does it need to be done before that?
22:37 eythian it's been sitting around for a while now, so I don't think there's a rush :)
22:37 eythian it would be a good hackfest project.
22:38 eythian It's also 95% done I think
22:38 gmcharlt would I be correct in assuming that the l10n packages aren't particularly tied to set release dates?
22:38 eythian that's correct, they'll be built with every release anyway. We could add them in the middle of a cycle if we wanted without undue effect.
22:38 tcohen the problem is that (sometimes) fixes to templates also depend on code
22:38 rangi jcamins: the json for a syspref
22:39 jcamins rangi: ah. Right.
22:39 tcohen (written the other way: an upgrade could break "old" templates)
22:39 gmcharlt tcohen: that's a given, but I think my question is more whether the infrastructure to do it can be truned on in the middle of a cycle if need be
22:40 eythian We could. People wouldn't notice any change unless they went looking for it.
22:40 gmcharlt obviously the actual packages should be based on templates + translations as the exist at a particular minor release
22:40 gmcharlt with possibily an option to update translation packages more frequently than the monthly releases, if folks were feeling particularly ambitious
22:41 drnoe_away left #koha
22:42 eythian they would come from the same source package as koha itself, so that would be a little tricky.
22:42 tcohen error-prone
22:42 NateC joined #koha
22:43 tcohen also, there was that idea of removing to .po files from the main git repo too...
22:43 rangi yep
22:43 rangi the repo is sitting waiting :)
22:43 rangi i dont like the idea of rewriting history, ie removing all trace
22:44 rangi but i think shifting them to their own repo will slow the growth of the main repo, and make it easier to have pootle commit to git
22:44 gmcharlt well, it's easy enough to bring over the history of the PO files, mostly, to the new repo if desired
22:44 rangi[…]ons.git;a=summary
22:44 rambutan joined #koha
22:44 rangi yep
22:44 gmcharlt and just satisfying ourselves witha  git-rm in the main one
22:45 rangi yup
22:45 rangi pootle can backend into git
22:45 rangi so having it commit
22:45 tcohen rangi: would u glue all together again upon release?
22:45 rangi tcohen: yup
22:45 tcohen hmm, interesting
22:45 wahanui interesting is, like, sometimes good and sometimes bad
22:45 rangi having pootle commit to git, would take load of the translation manager
22:45 tcohen this time is good
22:45 rangi they just would have to push
22:46 rangi every so often
22:46 rangi instead of copying files around and and committing etc
22:46 rangi but modifying the release scripts to grab the .po files and add them to the tarball wouldnt be hard at all
22:46 rangi and the packages could build using the translation repo id imagine
22:47 eythian yeah, or do the subtrees thing or something
22:47 rangi *nod*
22:47 eythian not subtrees, the thing where you reference one repo in another
22:47 tcohen the TM would tag accordingly
22:47 rangi submodules
22:47 eythian anyway, I'm sure it could be made to work.
22:47 rangi tcohen: yep good idea
22:48 tcohen i see more work for the QA folks
22:48 rangi testing the translations?
22:48 rangi not too bad
22:49 rangi specially with the submodules idea
22:49 tcohen unless you are in the QA team of course
22:49 gmcharlt wouldn't take much to make automated tests of the translations pretty complete
22:49 rangi *nod*
22:49 tcohen so we need debian/ and t/ inside the koha-translation tree
22:49 rangi[…]it-submodule.html
22:49 dani left #koha
22:50 rangi tcohen: or the translation repo as a submodule of the main one
22:50 tcohen you re-use the current debian-related building scripts
22:50 rangi there are a few ways to solve it
22:51 gmcharlt submodules make me slightly nervous -- don't want people trying to patch against them directly
22:51 rangi true
22:51 tcohen the main question still remains: is it possible to do it rock-solid before release?
22:52 rangi this release? maybe not, but setting up the repo and testing pushing to it etc yes, we can still always do the release the old way
22:52 rangi and git rm from there after
22:52 eythian tcohen: no, it'd use the debian/ from the main repo
22:53 rangi but i think the the sooner we start using/testing the translation repo, the sooner we would be able to switch to it in the future
22:53 papa joined #koha
22:53 tcohen thanks eythian, I didn't read about submodules before commenting
22:53 rangi or decide its dumb and abandon it
22:53 rangi :)
22:53 * tcohen attaches his patch for the koha-common.postinst script just in case
22:54 tcohen ok, bgkriegel?
22:54 wahanui bgkriegel is on a signoff spree
22:55 tcohen we're talking about you in some way :-D
22:56 eythian wee, new Covenant album!
23:00 tcohen rangi: how shoudl we proceed with this?
23:00 tcohen eythian: what can i hear from Covenant to get an idea of them?
23:01 eythian <-- tcohen
23:02 rangi tcohen: id get bgkriegel to see if he wants to trying pushing to the new repo
23:03 rangi if he doesnt have time
23:03 rangi then thats fine
23:03 rangi we can also spend half a day on this at the hackfest if we want
23:03 Topic for #koha is now QA sprint, run forest run! |[…]-library-software
23:05 tcohen thanks eythian
23:06 tcohen rangi: i mixed things a bit, i was talking about the other part of the problem, lang packages
23:07 rangi ah yep
23:08 rangi those i reckon we could get done pre release
23:58 dcook joined #koha

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