IRC log for #koha, 2013-07-03

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:00 wizzyrea also, if you happen to break the bulb, or it comes out
00:00 wizzyrea you can use a potato to twist the bulb out
00:00 wizzyrea just cram the potato on the broken bit
00:00 jcamins wizzyrea: smart! That's my new backup plan.
00:00 dcook Potatos!
00:00 tcohen tongs
00:00 * druthb has used the potato trick.  :)
00:00 wizzyrea zzzzap
00:01 jcamins Actually, I think that might be my first plan.
00:01 * dcook would probably turn off the electricity in any case
00:01 dcook Although slight electrical shocks are...interesting
00:02 dcook To Australia's credit, this whole putting switches on electrical outlets...pretty smrat
00:02 dcook smart even...
00:02 dcook I think they do it in Europe as well..
00:02 dcook Means fewer accidental shocks. That's for sure.
00:02 druthb India and Jordan both do, too.  'course, both of them are running at 220VAC, too.
00:03 druthb get hit by that, it hurts *lots*
00:04 jcamins Success!
00:04 wahanui success is a good thing jenkins
00:05 jcamins Out of curiosity, what on earth is it that they put in those lightbulbs?
00:06 jcamins (the metal leaf that's coating everything)
00:07 dcook Metal leaf?
00:07 dcook For the base?
00:07 druthb compact fluorescents contain mercury, IIRC
00:07 jcamins Yeah. Never seen it on another bulb.
00:07 jcamins druthb: this was an incandescent.
00:07 druthb That's odd.
00:07 dcook Hmm, no idea what you're talking about?
00:07 dcook Pics or it didn't happen
00:07 jcamins It sure looked like mercury, though.
00:08 jcamins dcook: having laboriously gotten it into a trash bag, I'm not inclined to run the risk of getting all over everything again.
00:08 * tcohen heads to the kitchen: crab raviolis almost cooked
00:08 tcohen bye #koha!
00:08 dcook Touché
00:08 dcook Seee ya, tcohenn
00:08 dcook tcohen*
00:08 tcohen bye dcook
00:08 dcook Mmm ravioli...
00:09 jenkins_koha Yippie, build fixed!
00:09 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.12.x build #62: FIXED in 40 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]b/Koha_3.12.x/62/
00:09 tcohen that's great :-D
00:09 dcook lol
00:10 jenkins_koha Starting build #328 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: STILL FAILING -- last SUCCESS #325 9 days 23 hr ago)
00:10 wizzyrea mercury would be either gaseous or liquid at room temp
00:10 wizzyrea if under pressure, gaseous (as in a bulb)
00:10 wizzyrea or ... i'm feeling wrong
00:10 * cjh double checks channel
00:10 wizzyrea I think it would be liquid at room temp
00:10 wizzyrea kek
00:11 druthb no, you're right, wizzyrea.  It should be liquid at room temp, at normal atmosphere.
00:11 * wizzyrea had a look at sirsi enterprise today
00:11 wizzyrea it does some neat things, and some utterly nonsensical things
00:11 druthb Take a shower afterward?  Decontaminate?
00:11 wizzyrea well I know it would be liquid at room temp, not sure about in a bulb
00:13 jcamins druthb: yeah, guess I won't be eating dinner just yet.
00:13 druthb Not you, jcamins.  Wizzyrea...after dealing with SirsiDynix, I've always felt really dirty and wrong.
00:13 jcamins lol
00:13 jcamins I just checked. It is definitely an incandescent bulb.
00:14 wizzyrea jcamins - I'd vent your apartment
00:15 wizzyrea but if it's flakes it's probably not mercury
00:15 jcamins wizzyrea: mercury is definitely not an ingredient in incandescent bulbs, though.
00:15 wizzyrea definitely not.
00:15 wizzyrea it's in the CFL's tho
00:15 wizzyrea so, in case you were wondering
00:16 jcamins Yeah, but the CFL is fine.
00:16 wizzyrea decontamination = bag the clothes, vent the area, take a shower
00:16 wizzyrea (for mercury)
00:16 wizzyrea http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/mmg/m[…]asp?id=106&tid=24
00:51 jenkins_koha Yippie, build fixed!
00:51 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.8.x build #328: FIXED in 42 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]b/Koha_3.8.x/328/
00:54 jenkins_koha Starting build #1284 for job Koha_master (previous build: STILL UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #1274 4 days 23 hr ago)
01:01 BobB joined #koha
01:08 dcook joined #koha
01:09 dcook First thought "Canadian Football League" when I saw CFL...
01:12 wizzyrea stuff
01:12 dcook stuff?
01:12 wahanui stuff is probably working quite well... ... But not ready for production at the moment. or in xslt
01:15 mtompset Compact Flour... whatever... Lightbulb.
01:16 dcook fluorescent?
01:16 mtompset But yes, if you didn't catch the context, that was a reasonable assumption, dcook. ;)
01:16 mtompset yes, but I didn't want to look up the spelling. :P
01:16 dcook If you just think about it as flourescent but remember that the u comes before the o, you're pretty good to go
01:17 dcook I find it interesting that we're tempted to write flourescent...but we stop after flour because something seems wrong
01:17 dcook But we assume it's with the rest when it's actually the position of the U and the O
01:17 dcook Words are interesting...
01:51 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 9987: DBRev 3.13.00.009 - remove acqorders.biblioitemnumber <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]e6195d4fd67f00480>
02:11 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1284: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 19 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1284/
02:11 jenkins_koha Jonathan Druart: Bug 9987: Remove DB field aqorders.biblioitemnunmber
02:11 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9987 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , biblioitemnumber is useless for orders.
02:17 jenkins_koha Starting build #1285 for job Koha_master (previous build: STILL UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #1274 5 days 1 hr ago)
02:49 gmcharlt http://koha-community.org/koha[…]anagers-update-1/
02:49 jcamins gmcharlt++
02:51 rangi gmcharlt++
02:55 dcook gmcharlt++
02:56 mtompset gmcharlt++
03:02 mtompset @quote random
03:02 huginn mtompset: Quote #196: "oleonard: maybe if I didn't have all this Bugzilla stuff stored in my head I would be able to walk and chew gum at the same time." (added by wizzyrea at 04:41 PM, April 02, 2012)
03:03 mtompset @quote add  gmcharlt: I like patches that remove dead code almost as much as I like cookies.
03:03 huginn mtompset: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
03:04 mtompset @quote add  gmcharlt: I like patches that remove dead code almost as much as I like cookies.
03:04 huginn mtompset: The operation succeeded.  Quote #267 added.
03:04 * gmcharlt was very careful to word it that way for fear that nobody would ever give me cookies again if I sounded too enthusiastic about dead code removal ;)
03:05 * mtompset laughs, "Totally understandable."
03:18 dcook Hmmm, how do fines get generated?
03:18 dcook fines.pl?
03:19 dcook I swear that I have an overdue item, but if I run fines.pl, it doesn't increment...
03:19 dcook Note, this is 3.8.0
03:19 dcook I thought it was related to the bugs that Galen cites but I'm starting to think it's not...
03:19 rangi theres a syspref
03:19 rangi finesmode
03:19 rangi check that
03:19 dcook finesMode?
03:19 dcook Yeah, alreayd have :/
03:19 dcook already*
03:19 dcook Calculate and charge
03:20 rangi and your rules?
03:20 rangi for overdues
03:20 dcook ...
03:20 rangi under tools
03:20 dcook That would probably do it
03:20 dcook Under tools?
03:20 rangi and circ rules
03:20 rangi (one for notices one for fines)
03:20 dcook Mmm
03:20 rangi circrules has the fines
03:21 rangi bearing in mind it has to match
03:21 rangi so if your rule is 1 day, and 1 day increments
03:21 rangi then it shojld match pretty much everything
03:21 rangi but if its 3 days, and 3 day increments
03:21 rangi it will only increment on hte 3rd (or 4th i forge) then 6 or 7th etc
03:22 rangi forget even
03:22 dcook Nice
03:22 dcook Thanks, rangi :)
03:22 dcook And with pre-patched 3.8, it'll also add fines on check-in
03:22 dcook Hence the need for your patch
03:22 rangi yup
03:23 dcook rangi++
03:23 dcook Thanks heaps :)
03:23 rangi no worries
03:24 dcook I have the feeling the problem someone has raised likely has to do with their fines rules then..
03:24 dcook circ rules even
03:25 dcook Hmm...they look ok too...not sure
03:31 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1285: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 15 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1285/
03:31 jenkins_koha Galen Charlton: Bug 9987: DBRev 3.13.00.009 - remove acqorders.biblioitemnumber
03:31 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9987 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , biblioitemnumber is useless for orders.
03:32 jenkins_koha Starting build #1286 for job Koha_master (previous build: STILL UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #1274 5 days 2 hr ago)
04:15 Irma1 left #koha
04:29 dcook gmcharlt: "I was release manager for Koha 3.12." ?
04:32 mtompset Have a great day, #koha.
04:44 gmcharlt 3.2, 3.12 .... both still not quite pi yet ;)
04:44 gmcharlt dcook: thanks for finding the typo
04:47 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1286: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 15 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1286/
04:53 dcook No worries :)
05:02 paul_p joined #koha
05:12 jenkins_koha Starting build #1287 for job Koha_master (previous build: STILL UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #1274 5 days 4 hr ago)
05:14 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 9987: remove reference to biblioitemnumber from test case <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]076fe68303313da90>
05:36 cait joined #koha
06:02 cait gmcharlt++
06:16 dcook Yay for master using jquery v1.7.2!
06:16 dcook Boo for 3.8 being on v1.3.2...
06:21 * magnuse waves
06:21 dcook Hey ya magnuse
06:22 magnuse hiya dcook
06:25 magnuse wassup?!?
06:27 * magnuse thinks he will probably upgrade his customers to 3.12.1 tonight
06:27 dcook Nice one!
06:27 dcook I'm going...to have pretzels and beer tonight :)
06:28 * magnuse would rather upgrade koha than drink beer ;-)
06:29 dcook :O
06:29 magnuse (not because of the alcohol, but because of the awful taste)
06:29 dcook O_O
06:29 * cait is with magnuse on that
06:29 magnuse yay cait!
06:30 cait we will have an update party with cookies and pretzels and dcook can get beer :)
06:30 dcook Shattering my preconceived notions of Norway and Germany here!
06:30 jenkins_koha Yippie, build fixed!
06:30 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1287: FIXED in 1 hr 17 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1287/
06:30 jenkins_koha Galen Charlton: Bug 9987: remove reference to biblioitemnumber from test case
06:30 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9987 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , biblioitemnumber is useless for orders.
06:30 cait gmcharlt++
06:30 cait seems i can't stop giving our RM karma
06:30 cait i have a bit of a weird patch coming up... someone want to volunteer to review?
06:30 cait might take a bit longer, but it will be on bug 10519
06:30 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10519 normal, P5 - low, ---, katrin.fischer, Signed Off , Suggestions: 'Organize by' and correct display of tab descriptions broken
06:32 alex_a bonjour
06:32 magnuse dcook: we might not be representative :-)
06:32 magnuse gmcharlt++
06:41 reiveune joined #koha
06:42 reiveune hello
06:45 cait ok
06:45 cait 10519 ready for testing :)
06:45 cait i am not overly confident about this... but it seems to make it work better
06:53 drojf joined #koha
06:53 drojf good morning #koha
06:57 dcook morning drojf
06:57 magnuse moin drojf and reiveune
06:58 drojf hi dcook and magnuse
06:59 asaurat joined #koha
07:01 asaurat hi
07:01 magnuse bonjour asaurat
07:04 kenza joined #koha
07:05 christophe_c joined #koha
07:05 christophe_c hello #koha
07:06 drojf @wunder berlin, germany
07:06 huginn drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 20.6°C (8:43 AM CEST on July 03, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 59%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Steady).
07:11 sophie_m joined #koha
07:26 magnuse bonjour kenza christophe_c sophie_m
07:26 sophie_m hello magnuse and #koha
07:26 * magnuse wonders if renewing his I-name is worth it
07:26 christophe_c bonjour magnuse ;-)
07:26 kenza hello!
07:27 magnuse welcome to #koha kenza!
07:29 kenza :)
07:29 magnuse first time here, i think?
07:30 gerundio joined #koha
07:30 kenza yes!
07:30 magnuse yay!
07:35 magnuse yes, our bug queues are too long, but having 158 bugs signed off in june is still pretty awesome
07:36 sophie_m magnuse: kenza is trainee at BibLibre
07:37 rangi 190 to needs signoff, it just means lots and lots of work is being done
07:38 magnuse yup
07:39 magnuse sophie_m: i know, and that is awesome! :-)
07:43 kf joined #koha
07:43 magnuse 116 bugs are "in discussion"
07:43 magnuse wb kf
07:43 kf :)
07:46 paul_p joined #koha
07:49 magnuse gmcharlt++ for 3.14 RM update #1
07:50 kf gmcharlt++ for his blog tutorial too :)
07:50 lds joined #koha
07:52 * magnuse thinks "in discussion" might not be serving it's puropse
07:53 drojf i think it is more a "nothing to sign off here atm"
07:55 magnuse yeah, but i also have a feeling it is a place where bugs go to die in silence...
07:57 rangi thats only if the person who wrote the patch doesnt care enough .. in which case they should die
07:57 rangi imho
07:59 magnuse yeah, that might be tru
07:59 magnuse e
07:59 bigbrovar_ joined #koha
08:00 rangi in more positive news, jenkins now has 2 extra nodes to use
08:00 magnuse yay!
08:00 rangi one in tokyo (galen's) and bernardo's (in argentina)
08:01 magnuse what does that translate to? faster testing?
08:02 rangi yep and more
08:02 kf nice!!
08:02 kf maybe some nice news for the newsletter/koha blog too?
08:02 kf showing once again that koha has a strong international community :)
08:02 rangi eg
08:02 rangi we could have one of those nodes running maria
08:02 rangi then the unit tests would be running against mysql and maria
08:03 kf :)
08:03 magnuse kewl!
08:13 gaetan_B joined #koha
08:13 gaetan_B hello
08:13 gaetan_B i am running into some really awful zebra related RTL problems here
08:14 kf gaetan_B: what's the problem?
08:14 wahanui well, the problem is it's human beings doing it. Rebuild your indexes.
08:14 drojf lol wahanui
08:15 magnuse lol
08:15 gaetan_B wahanui: you have a point here
08:15 wahanui gaetan_B: what?
08:15 gaetan_B well
08:15 gaetan_B they have entered quite a few titles in RTL languages so far
08:15 gaetan_B and it was all fine and nice
08:15 gaetan_B but just this one title
08:16 gaetan_B has two words with a space in between
08:16 gaetan_B (we have had titles with this structure and no problems)
08:16 drojf what does it do?
08:16 drojf or not do
08:17 gaetan_B and it shows up in the search results with the two words in the wrong order
08:17 gaetan_B also if you search
08:17 gaetan_B you need to enter them in the wrong order to get the right result
08:17 gaetan_B but in the detailed view
08:17 gaetan_B it shows in the right order
08:17 gaetan_B say if the title was "funny stuff"
08:17 gaetan_B you have to search "stuff funny"
08:18 gaetan_B and in the search results looking up funny would bring you "stuff funny" in the results list
08:18 gaetan_B and looking at the detailed record
08:18 magnuse i *think* the data in the result list comes from zebra, and the data in the detail view comes from the MARC in the database?
08:18 gaetan_B you would see the proper title "funny stuff"
08:18 gaetan_B it does look like it
08:18 gaetan_B which means zebra does some pretty evil voodoo with RTL languages
08:19 drojf but only in one case?!
08:19 gaetan_B drojf: yes and also systematically reproductible with this words in this order
08:19 magnuse weird!
08:19 gaetan_B but the same words in another sentence might not give you any trouble
08:20 kf ugh.
08:20 drojf the zebra is a strange animal :/
08:21 drojf out of curiosity, what are the words?
08:21 gaetan_B kf: someone here told me "but it's very easy someone in  germany told us we only have to set it to RTL and everything will be fine!" i hope it wasn't you :D
08:22 gaetan_B زانست وسه رده م
08:22 gaetan_B drojf: ^^
08:22 drojf also, why does the search results take the title from zebra and not from the marc recordß?
08:22 kf gaetan_B: more likely the library they visited
08:22 gaetan_B yes i am only kidding
08:22 magnuse drojf: probably because it would be slower?
08:22 gaetan_B they were probably not talking about zebra anyway
08:22 kf gaetan_B: but i have never heard of something like this from the library with hebrew records.
08:22 gaetan_B it seems to be super specific
08:23 gaetan_B it could also be a system problem
08:23 gaetan_B because we had a whole lot of records that zebra refused to index
08:23 gaetan_B on our migration instance
08:23 drojf where do you have to set it to rtl? i don't think i did that when i tested icu and it looked ok by default
08:24 gaetan_B when we sent everything to their production instance (which we installed ourselves, so it's a regular French debian like the other should be) these problems almost vanished
08:24 gaetan_B drojf: i was sort of joking, i don't think there's any rtl setting for zebra
08:24 kf i think the only thing you need for sure is icu
08:24 drojf ha you really got me confused there :D
08:24 kf then it 'should' work
08:25 gaetan_B drojf: :D that's ok this problem should confuse pretty much any sane person
08:25 gaetan_B it is icu, but that's not enough it seems
08:26 kf maybe try the mailing list? haven't seen karam in a while, but he might know
08:26 drojf gaetan_B: there would not be any strange ligature/replacement settings in the icu configuration? have you tried without anything in there?
08:31 gaetan_B i have addes what karam added on the wiki
08:32 gaetan_B that's the only thing i have here
08:32 gaetan_B i don't see how this would invert word oder though
08:32 gaetan_B but i don't understand this very well
08:32 drojf i'd try it without any of those just to make sure. it may not even be the rules but a bug in there, who knows
08:33 drojf but it's something that zebra definitely uses to manipulate the indexes
08:36 eythian joined #koha
08:37 magnuse kia ora eythian
08:37 eythian g'day
08:37 magnuse nice time to show up for work! ;-)
08:38 eythian it's a bit weird, yeah :)
08:38 kf heh
08:38 kf 9:40? :)
08:39 magnuse 10:40 here
08:39 eythian yeah, 9.40
08:39 magnuse ah, england
08:40 eythian merry old, yep.
08:40 magnuse is there a way to make it so that only one patron category is able to check out a given item type?
08:41 magnuse i thought adding a sepecific rule in "Circulation and fines rules" for Patron category = x and Item type = y would do it, but it seems i got that wrong...
08:44 magnuse do i have to set "Current checkouts allowed" = 0 for all the other Patron categories, for this Item type?
08:45 eythian that would seem like it could do it.
08:46 eythian but I don't think I've ever tried this.
08:48 magnuse yeah, i think that must be it
08:51 kf magnuse: that should work yes
08:53 magnuse thanks
08:53 magnuse not 100% elegant, but it seems to work
08:53 magnuse :-)
09:00 drojf gaetan_B: fwiw i copied your title and put it in a record, it looks the same to me in results and detail view
09:01 kf os it works after recataloging it?
09:01 drojf what do you mean? change the record?
09:04 * drojf has to leave. see you later
09:04 kf bye drojf
09:09 eythian wahanui: facepalm is a tiny member of the Arecaceae family whose preference for warm, humid environments makes it a perfect choice for cultivation in the human nasal cavity.
09:09 wahanui ...but facepalm is <reply>http://buikitty.files.wordpres[…]120202-094434.jpg...
09:10 eythian wahanui: facepalm is also a tiny member of the Arecaceae family whose preference for warm, humid environments makes it a perfect choice for cultivation in the human nasal cavity.
09:10 wahanui okay, eythian.
09:21 jransom joined #koha
09:22 magnuse hiya connordewar
09:22 connordewar hi magnus
09:25 eythian http://awfullibrarybooks.net/the-final-frontier/ <-- this is excellent
09:28 connordewar @rangi are you about?
09:28 huginn connordewar: I'll give you the answer just as soon as RDA is ready
09:28 kf hi connordewar :)
09:29 connordewar hello kf
09:29 magnuse eythian: that blog inspired a norwegian blog: https://trangtihylla.wordpress.com/
09:31 eythian connordewar: I wouldn't be too surprised if he wasn't. Anything I can help with?
09:32 eythian magnuse: I'm reduced to judging them by their terrible covers :)
09:32 connordewar hi eythian well I was going to ask him about seeing if I could tag along with the python team or something at catslyst these school holidays.
09:32 magnuse eythian: yeah, even that should be good for a few laughs :-)
09:33 magnuse python?!? ewww ;-)
09:33 eythian connordewar: ah, nice.
09:34 connordewar nothing wrong with python! im now dabbling in some c++
09:34 eythian connordewar: I'd email ian@catalyst.net.nz, he runs our academy stuff, he might have some ideas too.
09:35 connordewar good idea thanks!
09:35 eythian Of course, I think you'd be better off doing Perl, but I'm biased ;)
09:36 connordewar c++ has alot of game possibiltys though thats my freetime project
09:37 eythian then you should perhaps also look into pygame.
09:37 connordewar iv already had alot of fun with pygame but wasnt happy with the speed :)
09:38 eythian heh OK
09:39 connordewar I still dont see why theres such an anti python attitude
09:40 eythian Because it's an upstart trying to take over the areas that Perl does perfectly well, and we use perl :)
09:40 magnuse because it's not perl :-)
09:41 connordewar ahh I did help with some koha unit tests and the perl was very pretty code
09:41 magnuse nah, i really don't care, honestly
09:42 magnuse as long as you have fun!
09:42 mtj hey connor, fwiw, i've been meaning to have a poke at love2d for games
09:42 mtj https://love2d.org/
09:43 connordewar is it a python library?
09:43 eythian lua
09:44 mtj it uses sdl as well, but ive heard its fast and lean
09:45 mtj website has some nice demos, too  :)
09:45 connordewar looks nice iv only played with lua on a mod for minecraft
09:46 eythian I think lua is pretty popular for game scripting environments. Never used it myself, but see it around a bit.
09:47 mtj i think its a good middle-ground between pygame and native c, for game stuff
09:47 magnuse LÖVE - is that a heavy metal umlaut? :-)
09:49 eythian of course it is, why else would you have an umlaut?
09:50 connordewar oh yeah I might have a play! always good to play with another language
09:51 magnuse eythian: dunno, ask kf
09:52 kf ?
09:53 connordewar well im off . goodbye all
09:53 eythian later
09:56 mtj connordewar, keep us posted, aye :)
10:03 kf hm i think Now() is a mysqlismß
10:03 kf ?
10:04 mtj kf, yeah i think so
10:04 mtj http://stackoverflow.com/quest[…]ent-of-mysqls-now
10:05 mtj 'You can also use CURRENT_TIMESTAMP, if you feel like being more ANSI compliant' ?
10:05 kf wondering abu bug 8367
10:05 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8367 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , How long is a hold waiting for pickup at a more granular level
10:08 mtj aaah, interesting ...
10:08 mtj CURRENT_TIMESTAMP(), CURRENT_TIMESTAMPSynonyms for NOW()
10:08 mtj http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refma[…]me-functions.html
10:08 mtj kf, so yeah… you are correct :)
10:09 kf so are we sure current_timestamp is safe? :)
10:11 mtj yeah, i think so… its a synonym of now() - but ANSI compliant
10:11 kf ah, that should be an easy one then
10:20 mtj hey, that would be a good sub-bug, under 'removing mysqlisms'
10:26 mtj i didnt really know this until now, but… i guess what we are aiming for is ISO/IEC spec SQL, for Koha
10:26 mtj http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL:2011
10:29 mtj all very interesting stuff, that i know very little about :o)
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10:36 viktorsarge_ (test)
10:36 kf hi viktorsarge_
10:36 viktorsarge_ Hi kf
10:36 viktorsarge_ Just trying to get my regular nick :)
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10:36 viktorsarge_ Hi drojf
10:37 Viktor (thats better)
10:42 Viktor Update from our translators btw - Swedish should be done by end of july/during august.
10:42 kf khall: around?
10:43 Viktor But what functions does the file pref.po have?
10:45 kf it translates the system preferences
10:46 kf in administration
10:46 kf make sure to take a look at an existing translation before - you have to leave out the comments at the beginnings of each entry in your translation to make it work right
10:46 Viktor Thanks kf
10:46 gaetan_B in marc21 which fields are mandatory for Koha to properly generate an authority ? it seems just filling the $a is not enough
10:47 Viktor Guess we'll have to do that too, but I'll save it for last.
10:47 kf it's depending on your configuration too if koha will add an authority
10:47 kf Viktor: that sounds reasonable :)
10:48 Viktor gaetan_B no idea - sorry :/
10:48 eythian gaetan_B: I would have expected $a to be it
10:49 gaetan_B hmm configuration is ok, maybbe there is a bug in 3.10.04 then, because even with the default framework i am having troubles now
10:49 gaetan_B and bigger troubles than with my custom framework at that :D
10:50 jcamins kf: I did think it, yes.
10:50 jcamins *fix it
10:51 gaetan_B never mind, i was wrong the default framework is fine
10:51 jcamins I'll split it into a separate patch.
10:55 kf gaetan_B: why using 3.10 for them?
10:56 kf gaetan_B: there was a ton of work for RTL display in 3.12
10:56 gaetan_B because that's what was available when we did the install
10:56 gaetan_B i'll see if i can update the code before leaving indeed
10:56 gaetan_B but we we applied the patches actually
10:56 kf ah ok
10:56 gaetan_B it's still far from perfect
10:56 gaetan_B and
10:57 gaetan_B it seems the arabic translation is just a google translate of the interface
10:57 gaetan_B at least that's what they were saying
10:57 kf oh?
10:57 kf that's weird
10:57 jcamins gaetan_B: you know that 3.10 was never translated to Arabic at all, right?
10:58 gaetan_B err
10:58 gaetan_B there are files on pootle though
10:58 jcamins It has translations that were copied from 3.8 and 3.12, but my understanding was that Karam didn't translate 3.10 since it didn't play nicely with RTL.
10:58 gaetan_B and they seem to indicate it had been translated
10:58 gaetan_B oh ok
10:59 gaetan_B that would explain what they saw
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11:11 gaetan_B all documents have "books" in the detailed display whatever their document type is, is it a bug in the default marc21 xslt ?
11:13 jcamins No. That is a result of the LEADER not being set correctly.
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11:13 jcamins @marc leader
11:13 huginn jcamins: unknown tag leader
11:13 eythian the leader is never set correctly.
11:13 jcamins eythian: you have a point there.
11:13 eythian many of our libraries have that turned off. I think there might be a syspref for it.
11:13 jcamins OpacIconsXSLT.
11:14 magnuse #marcmustdie
11:14 eythian magnuse: there's no one in that channel...?
11:15 magnuse yeah, it's just a twitter habit to prefix with a #...
11:16 gaetan_B jcamins: aaah ok, that's a good explanation
11:17 gaetan_B i don't really want them to get a headache with ideas such as encoded fields though
11:18 gaetan_B i'll just set this syspref off then, thanks eythian and jcamins :)
11:18 kf eythian: our libraries are all using it :D
11:19 kf eythian: one of the advantages of the union catalog... I think it's mandatory there
11:19 eythian kf: for many library types, it simply doesn't make sense even when used correctly.
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11:19 eythian For many others, especially when converted from a system that had no concept of marc types, it's just plain wrong.
11:19 kf eythian: I think some things like distinguishing beween serials and monographs make a lot of sense
11:19 kf because you can also use it to limit your search
11:19 eythian yeah, but users don't care.
11:20 eythian (usually)
11:20 eythian and when it's misleading, it does more harm than good.
11:21 marcelr hi #koha
11:33 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 10428: undefined check in add additem.pl <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]30c8a87c8cfebe472> / Bug 10488: Followup replacing DELETEs by more restricted INSERTs <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]0a5ba2d869f1966bf> / Bug 10488 - New MARC21 authority tags and subfields should be propagated to non-defau... <http://gi
11:35 phred joined #koha
11:41 gaetan_B coming back later...
11:42 jenkins_koha Starting build #1288 for job Koha_master (previous build: FIXED)
11:57 oleonard joined #koha
11:59 * drojf yawns
12:00 drojf @wunder berlin, germany
12:00 huginn drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 28.1°C (1:43 PM CEST on July 03, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 35%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 29.80 in 1009 hPa (Steady).
12:00 oleonard It's siesta time drojf
12:00 drojf paid siesta time? :)
12:01 * oleonard wishes
12:03 drojf hej Viktor. that's great about the swedish translation
12:03 magnuse @wunder boo
12:03 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 15.0°C (1:50 PM CEST on July 03, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 72%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 29.80 in 1009 hPa (Steady).
12:03 drojf can somebody recommend a video projector for office use?
12:04 Viktor drojf Yes - good to finally get it done (even if it's to early to celebrate just yet).
12:05 marcelr oleonard: hi! can i still ask you to have a look at the shared lists stuff :) ?
12:05 drojf looks like projectors nowadays are only sold as "3d ready" and other things that i don't care about at all
12:05 marcelr hi drojf
12:05 drojf hi marcelr
12:05 oleonard marcelr: Yes. Is there something in particular, or are you just hoping to get it signed off?
12:05 magnuse 3d-- = 2d ;- )
12:05 Viktor Hei magnuse
12:06 marcelr oleonard: just curious if you have a reason not to sign off perhaps?
12:06 jcamins drojf: ooh, thanks for reminding me.
12:06 oleonard marcelr: Last time I looked it was working well, but I didn't have time to test enough for a signoff.
12:06 marcelr ok
12:06 jcamins I need to arrange for a projector.
12:06 drojf yay, i'm useful :)
12:10 magnuse heia Viktor
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12:45 marcelr Joubu++ for diligent testing
12:46 oleonard Indeed.
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12:55 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1288: SUCCESS in 1 hr 12 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1288/
12:55 jenkins_koha * Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel: Bug 10488 - New MARC21 authority tags and subfields should be propagated to non-default frameworks
12:55 jenkins_koha * Marcel de Rooy: Bug 10488: Followup replacing DELETEs by more restricted INSERTs
12:55 jenkins_koha * Fridolyn SOMERS: Bug 10428: undefined check in add additem.pl
12:55 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10488 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, bgkriegel, Pushed to Master , New MARC21 authority tags and subfields should be propagated to non-default frameworks
12:55 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10428 trivial, P5 - low, ---, fridolyn.somers, Pushed to Master , undefined check in add additem.pl
12:59 magnuse success! \o/
13:02 tcohen morning #koiha
13:02 marcelr hi tcohen
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14:10 marcelr no bgkriegel here?
14:32 lds joined #koha
14:32 rambutan whatever did we do in the days before translate.google.com?
14:35 tcohen joined #koha
14:38 marcelr not translate?
14:43 drojf open a printed dictionary? a so-called 'book'. weird stuff, made from dead trees
14:43 rambutan or some people (me?) would have dug up a language dictionary and painstakingly translated every word, hoping to get the gist of the message
14:44 rambutan but the language dictionaries don't help with the grammar
14:45 drojf there are printed grammars too. nothing wrong with a few hours of language learning fun to translate a sentence ;)
14:46 rambutan and in some languages, Korean for one, only the verb stems are listed in the dictionary, in actual use verbs get completley mangled and for a non-speaker of the language there's no way to get the meaning
14:49 drojf take some evening classes in korean then if you need to translate a sentence. or ask a native speaker :D
14:50 rambutan well, I speak korean, although not perfectly certainly. Even have a degree in interpreting and translating Korean.
14:50 drojf cool
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15:04 drojf "Network Setting by Using an HTTP Browser ... Please be sure to use'Microsoft Internet Explorer 6.0' or a higher version for the web browser."
15:05 eythian at least you're not using a gopher browser!
15:05 drojf lol. this NEC projector gets deleted from the list for that entry in the manual
15:06 eythian sounds reasonable
15:12 drojf unfortunately i should delete the acer projectors too, for bullshit bingo reasons. acer eview/etimer/epower/e3d management;  ColorBoost II+, DLP™ BrilliantColor™ DarkChip™
15:12 asaurat left #koha
15:13 drojf and the user menu makes me aggressive just by looking at it in the manual
15:14 eythian heh
15:16 kf drojf: what are you doing?
15:17 drojf project wants to buy a non-expensive video projector for meetings
15:17 kf aah
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15:20 drojf from the projector use i have seen here i'd guess nobody will ever use the menu, they just place the thing somewhere, focus it a little and maybe put a few books under it to get the picture higher up the wall. so why should i care...
15:22 eythian yeah, all it needs is a button for power and focus. Bonus points if the remote has a laser pointer.
15:26 eythian heh
15:26 druthb o/
15:26 druthb <—sitting in the back of the room while her boss is interviewing a candidate for a peer position.
15:27 drojf i bet the candidate is happy s/he got some audience ;)
15:28 druthb nope.  It's a firing squad interview.
15:28 druthb He's clearly rattled.
15:29 druthb He holds an MS in CompSci, ink still wet.  Nice guy.
15:29 druthb polyglot, which we need.
15:29 eythian oh, that's a terrible way to interview.
15:30 oleonard What is a "peer position?"
15:30 druthb It's a pretty evil trick, yes.  But what we do is that one presents whiteboard problems, and he solves 'em, may ask any of us for resources.
15:30 christophe_c left #koha
15:31 eythian well, it's not that it's an evil trick, it's that it's an ineffective method that sets up a threatening or at least stressful environment, meaning that you don't get to see what the person is actually like in real life.
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15:36 mtompset joined #koha
15:36 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
15:36 drojf eythian: for some reason interviewers often don't care about what you are like, just what you do under stress. which leads me to believe they see the positions they want to fill as permanent stress situations
15:36 druthb I'm not entirely sure there's *any* interview method that lets you see what they're really like.  Given that we're throwing programming problems, which is What We Do Here, and asking him to think out loud, which we do a *lot* here, we get to see if he can do that. :)
15:37 mtompset Greetings, drojf druthb.
15:37 mtompset druthb: Talking about the grilling you will be giving soon? ;)
15:37 druthb He's settling down now, doing some good thinking; his initial solution to one problem was not the most efficient, but it was sound, and he immediately spotted improvements.
15:38 druthb mtompset:  the one we're giving now. :)
15:38 smeagol Hello everyone. I have a conundrum. When I install debian squeeze, i get many gpf's, crashes, etc when i never did before. But when i install Wheezy, i get this error. failed: Network is unreachable. gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found: Does this mean that the server is down, or there's no package for Wheezy yet for zebra?
15:38 eythian sure, it's hard to get a realistic view on a person, but there are better ways than picking a known-bad method. You're testing a person under a totally different form of stress to what they'd normally have, too.
15:38 eythian smeagol: gpf?
15:39 eythian You didn't install windows by accident, did you? :)
15:39 mtompset general protection faults?
15:39 eythian mtompset: linux doesn't tend to have those :)
15:39 smeagol no, that's what it said.
15:39 drojf green plastic frogs
15:39 mtompset eythian: I know. Unless you aim to do something stupid like intentionally try to write to null pointers and other stupid things.
15:40 eythian mtompset: that's a segmentation fault
15:40 mtompset from an end-user perspective, they are the same. :P
15:40 eythian mtompset: no, because they have a different message and occur in different places.
15:40 mtompset smeagol: Are you sure your hardware isn't failing?
15:41 eythian now, if it's something like:
15:41 eythian general protection fault: 0000 [#12] SMP
15:41 eythian CPU 1
15:41 smeagol eythian: that's IT
15:41 eythian Modules linked in: btrfs zlib_deflate libcrc32c ufs qnx4 hfsplus hfs minix ntfs vfat msdos fat jfs xfs reiserfs ext2 nfsd nfs lockd fscache auth_rpcgss nfs_acl sunrpc dm_crypt ppdev ipt_REJECT ipt_LOG ipt_MASQUERADE xt_state iptable_mangle iptable_nat nf_nat nf_conntrack_ipv4 nf_conntrack nf_defrag_ipv4 iptable_filter ip_tables x_tables joydev sp5100_tco edac_core i2c_piix4 serio_raw k8temp edac_mce_amd snd_hda_codec_hdmi snd_hda_intel snd_hda_codec snd_hwde
15:41 eythian p snd_pcm snd_timer snd soundcore parport_pc snd_page_alloc mac_hid shpchp lp parport radeon 8139too ttm drm_kms_helper drm pata_atiixp i2c_algo_bit usbhid hid wmi r8169
15:41 eythian and so on
15:41 eythian then that's a kernel level fault.
15:41 reiveune bye
15:41 reiveune left #koha
15:42 smeagol Yes, the kernel is crashing all over the place.
15:42 rambutan core file?
15:42 eythian I don't think that drops a core, not totally sure though
15:43 eythian anyway, there are packages for wheezy.
15:43 mtompset smeagol: I installed koha on a wheezy vm yestesterday with no problems.
15:43 eythian but the fact it's saying you have no network is probably a good place to start.
15:43 smeagol I would like to do a dev install.
15:43 smeagol git
15:43 eythian it might also be your hardware is unsupported on Linux.
15:43 smeagol I've never had a problem with these servers before...
15:44 mtompset Good point, eythian. Unsupported hardware.
15:44 mtompset How old are the servers? nic cards die eventually.
15:44 eythian hmm. could be memory failure, or something that's gone screwy in the installation.
15:44 mtompset as does memory.
15:45 smeagol Well, i'm primarily interested in an install.debian text for wheezy....i guess. Not to get off track.
15:45 eythian usually when I see that I run memtest etc., if that comes back clean, I format and reinstall from fresh on the theory that cosmic rays got in during installation/upgrade.
15:45 eythian packages work on wheezy, I'd use them and convert them to a git install.
15:45 eythian wahanui: gitify
15:45 wahanui i guess gitify is at https://github.com/mkfifo/koha-gitify
15:45 eythian ^-- using that
15:46 mtompset I do the old-school (long download) git clone. ;)
15:46 smeagol It doesn't like...deb http://ftp.indexdata.dk/debian wheezy main
15:46 pianohacker Does debian have a quick way to run a system-wide checksum verification?
15:46 tcohen hi eythian
15:46 eythian smeagol: don't do that
15:46 eythian you don't need the indexdata one, zebra is in debian
15:46 mtompset smeagol: No need to mention those repos.
15:46 eythian pianohacker: possibly, I'm not sure.
15:47 smeagol Ahhh so...that's the problem..didn't know that..thanks, you guys are the best!
15:47 eythian your kernel oopses and network messages would be concerning though.
15:48 smeagol I haven't had them yet, since I loaded Wheezy...we'll see, I guess.
15:49 smeagol Do I not have to do... $ wget -O- http://ftp.indexdata.dk/debian/indexdata.asc | sudo apt-key add - then, as well?
15:49 smeagol i guess not.
15:49 mtompset Where are you getting those instructions?
15:49 smeagol install.debian    http://git.koha-community.org/[…]LL.debian;hb=HEAD
15:50 mtompset Well, it seems like pre-squeeze instructions haven't been updated.
15:51 eythian http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]on_Debian_Squeeze <-- there's a perfectly nice wiki page
15:51 eythian (also works identically for wheezy)
15:51 eythian and needs a rewite one da
15:51 eythian y
15:51 eythian but otherwise perfectly nice.
15:53 smeagol Thank you very much!
15:58 tcohen eythian, is it possible to pack missing dependencies for 12.04?
15:58 mtompset Speaking of instructions, I think I managed to chop the 22K long ubuntu packages instructions down to 10k.
15:59 * drojf did not know about koha-gitify
15:59 drojf nice!
15:59 eythian tcohen: I didn't think there were any missing ones.
15:59 mtompset you'll have to forgive Ubuntu. ;)
15:59 eythian ubuntu 12.04 should be a bit newer that squeeze, so I'd expect it to have pretty much everything.
16:00 mtompset It's missing 4. I pulled 2 from raring, if I recall.
16:00 tcohen there is only one missing
16:00 mtompset the library::lc::call?
16:00 tcohen 2 older versions
16:00 eythian if you're missing library::lc::callnumbers, then you just haven't updated.
16:01 eythian (It went into the repo a couple of days ago)
16:02 tcohen data::pagination seems missing on my demo site, archive::extract seems old, the same for test::www::mechanize
16:02 tcohen it is really possible that i messed things there
16:03 tcohen eythian++ # for the library::lc::callnumber work
16:05 eythian Data::Pagination is explicitly blacklisted as we don't have the rights to distribute it. it shouldn't even be in Koha.
16:05 kf that was used by solr, right?
16:06 eythian I think so, yeah
16:06 eythian libarchive-extract-perl isn't in squeeze at all.
16:07 * tcohen is doing grep -R "Archive::Extract" *
16:08 eythian libtest-www-mechanize-perl is 1.30-1 in squeeze, 1.36-1ubuntu1 in precise.
16:08 tcohen plugins
16:08 * drojf is doing a "10 goto home"
16:08 tcohen you are right eythian
16:08 tcohen maybe I missunderstood what the yellow color means?
16:09 tcohen "too new"?
16:09 eythian yellow colour means you might have liver failure.
16:11 tcohen http://snag.gy/vHL1d.jpg
16:11 eythian oh, optional I think.
16:12 tcohen thank god is not a liver failure i have...
16:12 tcohen did u see the history.txt patch btw eythian?
16:12 eythian I did
16:12 eythian I haven't looked at it yet though
16:13 tcohen how is your europe tour going?
16:13 tcohen r u a rockstar eythian?
16:13 kf i think yello wmeans maybe an older version
16:13 eythian well, I'm still in Brighton, and will be for a while, so not really much of a tour so far :)
16:13 oleonard Wait, eythian is on another European tour?
16:14 eythian it could also mean that, though that module is optional anyway.
16:14 kf oleonard: when are you finally coming over? :)
16:14 eythian oleonard: it's perhaps more realistic to say that sometimes I'm on a tour at home.
16:14 kf oh lol
16:14 kf we have lots more yellow and red in the stest installation
16:14 kf nothing exploded yet
16:15 tcohen kf: minimum archive::extract version on PerlDependencies.pm is 0.60, we have 0.48 on precise
16:15 kf MooseX::Types?
16:15 kf i think the non-bold ones were optional
16:15 kf but not sure
16:15 eythian people should be more careful about their versioning. If we're supporting squeeze, then requiring a higher version than exists there is a bad idea unless essential.
16:16 eythian also, it makes more work for me.
16:16 tcohen 1.44 for mechanize, we have 1.36
16:16 eythian probably what they do is install the latest from cpan and set the version to that.
16:16 eythian which is bad.
16:16 tcohen (1.30 on squeeze)
16:16 tcohen really bad...
16:17 eythian maybe we should add that to the QA tools somehow, so it flags it if they require something that's not in squeeze.
16:17 tcohen so khall and magnuse are to blame
16:17 tcohen :-P
16:17 eythian bad khall and magnuse!
16:18 khall sorry!
16:18 khall I tend to install modules via apt if I can, cpan otherwise
16:20 tcohen what license do we need eythian?
16:20 tcohen (for data::pagination)
16:20 eythian something that allows it to be redistributed.
16:21 tcohen heh, something
16:21 eythian yeah
16:21 eythian currently it has nothing
16:22 eythian https://rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug[…]lay.html?id=80000 <-- and no reply to my query about it.
16:22 eythian So Data::Pagination can't be redistributed by us.
16:22 tcohen yes, was just reading it trying to fill a bug too
16:31 kf nice bug number
16:33 eythian it is :)
16:34 mtompset yellow means not high enough version. doesn't say optional or not, as far as I know.
16:34 kf bye all
16:36 eythian bye kf
16:36 kf left #koha
16:46 tcohen mtompset: as kf said, bf means non-optional
16:49 drojf joined #koha
17:26 drojf ping
17:30 tcohen pong
17:35 magnuse huh, what did i do?
17:37 magnuse i don't think i ever added a new dependcy to koha...
17:40 * magnuse upgrades his customers to 3.12.1
17:42 * magnuse talks to himself
17:43 * drojf watches magnuse talk to himself
17:47 * magnuse gives three cheers for koha-translate
17:49 * tcohen feels proud for helping magnuse
17:49 magnuse tcohen++
17:50 magnuse it's very nice not to have to remember sudo perl KOHA_CONF=... etc!
17:51 tcohen yes, it checks the po files are there too, before deleting sutf
17:53 magnuse yay
17:54 maximep hi gmcharlt. Could you tell me the status of bug 9394 ? I'm not sure if you were waiting on something from khall or not
17:54 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9394 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Passed QA , Use reserve_id where possible
17:54 magnuse everything looks ok, so that is 50 instances updated in less than 15 minutes :-)
17:55 magnuse packages++
17:55 magnuse eythian++
17:55 magnuse liw++
17:55 * liw bows in memory of his ancient contributions
17:56 tcohen @karma eythian liw
17:56 huginn tcohen: eythian liw has neutral karma.
17:56 tcohen @karma eythian
17:56 huginn tcohen: Karma for "eythian" has been increased 214 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 214.
17:56 mtompset @karma liw
17:56 huginn mtompset: Karma for "liw" has been increased 40 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 40.
17:56 gmcharlt maximep: just doing some testing; I expect to push it in the next few days
17:57 maximep cool! gmcharlt++
17:57 mtompset liw: All contributions regardless of time are still good. :)
17:59 drojf magnuse: 50 instances? you alone rule over more koha installations than i expect there are in whole germany
17:59 maximep khall: is it normal your latest rebased patch on bug 7710 has more changes in request.pl than the previous ones ?
17:59 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7710 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Signed Off , multiple holds per title
18:00 magnuse drojf: about half of those are from my "gratis koha" offer (to library people in norway)
18:01 drojf magnuse: i wish there were that many people interested in koha over here
18:01 sophie_m left #koha
18:01 magnuse hehe, try offering them gratis installations :-)
18:01 drojf heh yes i probably should
18:01 khall maximep: yes, there were a number of changes to that file that I had to take into account during the rebase
18:02 maximep khall: should I sign off again ?
18:02 tcohen are they on the same metal magnuse?
18:02 khall maximep: it wouldn't hurt!
18:03 drojf tcohen magnuse one linode to rule them all ;)
18:03 magnuse tcohen: yup, a virtual server at linode
18:03 tcohen you should try my koha-common-3.12.1-1~indexer build then ;)
18:04 * mtompset goes back to the grind singing, "Knives! Knives to grind. Any knives to grind?"
18:04 * magnuse will soon move the gratis installations and the demos (of which there are quite a few) to a separate server
18:04 * magnuse is reminded of a joke from marseille ;-)
18:05 * drojf has not been to marseille and woners what the joke is
18:05 drojf wonders even
18:09 mtompset Yes, magnuse. Grant us a joke to cheer our day. ;)
18:10 magnuse well, you kind of had to be there, right khall?
18:10 khall gahh! I'm never going to shake that one, am i  ; )
18:15 magnuse hey, it's the first time i mention it :-)
18:16 tcohen hmmm, i've been told nothing astonishing happened at marseille...
18:17 magnuse khall: and the last, if you so wish :-)
18:17 khall : )
18:17 khall I don't think dpavlin will let it go so easily!
18:18 magnuse ah, that is outside my jurisdiction, i'm afraid :-)
18:20 * magnuse wanders off
18:21 tcohen does it involve beer magnuse ?
18:25 jcamins oleonard++
18:28 cait joined #koha
18:28 cait hey all :)
18:32 tcohen hi cait
18:33 cait hi tcohen :)
18:35 rambutan khall: was tinkering with your offline circ the other day. Had problems getting it installed on Mint14. Looked like the problems involved dependencies apparently in debian but not in Mint. Any wise thoughts offhand?
18:35 khall you can always compile it from source!
18:36 rambutan hummm, I'm sure that musta been there but don't remember seeing it. On sourceforge? I was in a hurry so probably missed it.
18:37 khall http://sourceforge.net/p/koha-[…]e/ci/master/tree/
18:38 rambutan yep, I just looked under "files"
18:38 * khall wonders of that repo should be moved to git.koha-community.org
18:43 drojf oleonard++
18:44 drojf hi cait
18:52 cait oleonard++
18:52 cait hi drojf
18:58 rambutan left #koha
18:58 tcohen bye #koha
19:02 cait bye tcohen :)
19:11 cait hm
19:11 cait ok, google translate makes no sense
19:12 pianohacker that's its job, yes
19:14 cait :)
19:14 cait oleonard: maybe we could find a server or sandbox for this
19:14 cait then libraries could test easier
19:14 oleonard I would like that very much
19:14 cait woul dit work on one of the biblibre sandboxes? if you installed it?
19:15 cait hmm
19:15 cait *ponders*
19:16 cait i don't have an installation i could offer as a test box currently :(
19:16 jcamins I can set up an example server running it.
19:16 jcamins But not right now.
19:16 jcamins I'll even hook it up so that people can enter the comments directly on the OPAC.
19:17 cait !
19:17 cait jcamins++
19:17 cait that sounds awesome
19:18 cait oleonard: i like the new breadcrumbs :)
19:18 jcamins oleonard: is there a bug the OPAC should be locked to, or is there a different way you'd like comments?
19:18 cait oleonard: and the save record options :)
19:18 jcamins Your options are... bug or wiki, so I guess I shouldn't have made that sound so open-ended.
19:19 jcamins Errr... separate wiki.
19:19 oleonard There is a bug: Bug 10309
19:19 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10309 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , New OPAC theme based on Bootstrap
19:19 * jcamins is not a saint, and it would take a saint to automate posting comments on the general wiki.
19:19 jcamins Bug it is.
19:19 cait hm interesting
19:19 wahanui interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
19:19 cait broken umlaut in the library pulldown
19:19 cait is that thme or koha?
19:19 drojf hm. i tried koha-gitify that i leanred about a few hours ago to point an instance koha_oleonard to my clone at /home/mirko/oleonard/koha-dev and i am on the origin/bootstrap-opac branch but i don't have a bootstrap theme to choose from in my installation. am i missing something?
19:20 oleonard I wouldn't think it was the theme's fault cait, since it's straight HTML
19:21 cait more tihnking of the templates... but you are most probably right
19:21 cait i like the advanced search too :)
19:21 cait only thing is maybe making the pull downs for boolean a bit smaller
19:21 cait they seem a bit huge for the small ocntent :)
19:24 oleonard Goot point cait. Bootstrap wants to style all dropdowns with a fixed width, and it's not always appropriate.
19:25 cait oleonard: still looking at the advanced search page :)
19:25 cait would it be possible to optimize the itemtype display a bit more? it moves to 1 column very soon
19:26 cait i wonder if that will still be usable on a small screen with lots of itemtypes, not sure what's possible
19:26 oleonard I don't know, but I can look into it.
19:29 cait ok, one more thing - the search form for authorities behaves a bit weird when you change the screen size
19:29 cait and on the big screen
19:29 cait it alings them all in one row and when making the screen smaller they are a bit... zig zag?
19:30 cait if that is an english term... even.
19:31 jcamins cait: it is an English term, but the more idiomatic term would probably be "staggered."
19:31 cait thx
19:32 oleonard I don't think I have tested responsiveness on the authority search yet
19:32 jcamins Or "askew," I suppose.
19:32 jcamins Depending on the exact problem. :)
19:32 * oleonard spends most of his time ignoring them :P
19:33 oleonard I see what you mean though cait
19:33 cait the label seems to move in a wrong place too
19:33 cait i suddenly have Search: order by: [authority type pull down]
19:33 oleonard I think a similar problem is on the patron update screen--that form layout needs alternate CSS for smaller screens
19:38 drojf for the record, just checking out bootstrap-opac instead of origin/bootstrap-opac worked.
19:41 * drojf will continue his little soliloquy outside
19:43 cait ?
19:43 oleonard One thing that worries me is that sometimes (at least in Chrome), the narrow layout doesn't switch back to the full layout if I resize when I'm on a different tab. However, that's very much an edge case.
19:46 mtompset If every other row was shifting back and forth, I'd go with staggered. :)
19:47 oleonard Feel free to email comments directly to me or add them to the bug. I'm out for the day.
19:55 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 10346 - "Add multiple copies" should be labelled "Add multiple items" <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]815ed50c70093a057>
19:57 jenkins_koha Starting build #1289 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
21:13 rangi hmmmmmmm
21:13 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1289: SUCCESS in 1 hr 16 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1289/
21:13 jenkins_koha Owen Leonard: Bug 10346 - "Add multiple copies" should be labelled "Add multiple items"
21:13 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10346 trivial, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , "Add multiple copies" should be labelled "Add multiple items"
21:14 cait hmmmmm?
21:14 cait morning rangi
21:14 drojf sleepwalking?
21:14 rangi getting grumpy at emails
21:14 cait one specific?
21:14 cait and that doesn't seem to be a good plan
21:15 drojf rangi: chill out, get a personal live dvd :P
21:15 rangi heh
21:16 rangi fragmentation and unmaintainable systems for people who dont know how to look after a server ....
21:16 rangi how is that helping
21:16 drojf my guess is "not"
21:16 cait ok, now I am getting curious about that mail
21:34 cjh heh
21:35 cait drojf++ :)
21:37 jcamins Right, I have serious objections to that e-mail message.
21:37 rangi yep
21:38 * cait nods
21:38 jcamins I would like to send an e-mail that starts with "Speaking as the immediate past Release Manager, I have *NEVER* been so ashamed..." except I'm not sure what comes after that.
21:40 rangi heh
21:44 drojf the latest feature i came up with for my livedvd is that it spits out a sysadmin that installs a real debian and a real koha. and steals the dvd drive. i'm still working on the compression though
21:48 maximep it seems to me that writing a chef recipe for koha would be a better way to help installing it than a livedvd
21:49 maximep combined with a vagrantfile that uses that chef recipe, if you want to try out koha in a vm
21:49 jcamins maximep++
21:49 pianohacker Or a debian netinstaller CD with Koha's repositories and packages set up to install by default
21:50 rangi maximep: its even been done
21:50 jcamins pianohacker: shhh. That's not complicated, silly.
21:50 maximep rangi: yeah I know, used it to work a bit on my own
21:50 rangi http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]_Chef_and_Vagrant
21:50 maximep the problem is that it used a base box with all dependency installed
21:50 maximep so it only works on 3.10
21:51 maximep a better one would start with a clean debian 7
21:51 maximep just didnt have the time yet to do it
21:51 pianohacker jcamins: No, it isn't. Closest sane alternative to the livedvd imo
21:52 jcamins pianohacker: I don't think you understand what the LiveDVD is for. The LiveDVD is for complication!
21:52 pianohacker hahahaha wellllll
21:54 maximep on another subject, i'm working on a feature that I wonder if anyone ever worked on
21:54 maximep hmmm
21:55 maximep just tought that I it relies on local stuff. bleh.
21:55 drojf do you want us to guess what it is? ;)
21:55 maximep hourly holds
21:55 maximep iirc aren't in koha, right ?
21:55 jcamins What do you mean?
21:55 pianohacker hourly how?
21:56 jcamins You can place holds on items that only circulate for a few hours.
21:56 drojf what would that err yes what the others say
21:56 pianohacker why wouldn't you be able to now?
21:56 maximep creating a hold in the future, for exemple tomorrow from 10 to 12
21:56 jcamins Ah.
21:56 jcamins Someone was working on that.
21:56 pianohacker maximep: does the course reserves module cover any of that?
21:57 maximep yeah... I forget what we have and what is in a vanilla koha :/
21:57 maximep my bad
21:57 jcamins pianohacker: not really.
21:57 jcamins I'm pretty sure khall was working on a different feature that does that, though.
21:57 jcamins Where a patron can reserve an item for a specific period.
21:58 pianohacker hmm, okay. khall's probably out for the day, but should be back thursday morning
21:58 maximep I will have more time this summer this send some patches.... afraid they conflict with his stuff
21:58 maximep so much happenning in holds right now
21:58 jcamins Wait... who the heck is it who sent that e-mail?
21:59 rangi not vimal
21:59 rangi someone else
21:59 wahanui someone else is, like, going to have to look at acquisitions
21:59 jcamins Yeah, I just realized that.
21:59 jcamins That guy didn't even volunteer to do a livedvd.
21:59 jcamins I'm not sure if I am more or less offended by this.
22:00 maximep his customizations in the opac are....
22:00 drojf he said in the other email (like, yesterday) he did a livedvd for 3.9.8 or something before
22:00 jcamins drojf: ah.
22:01 pianohacker maximep: what are you talking about? It's inclusive! He didn't forget a single one of the web-safe colors
22:02 maximep let's just say it would look good in 2001
22:02 jcamins Hehe.
22:02 cait is there a screenshot somehwere?
22:03 maximep on the sourceforge page
22:05 drojf there is blinking text at the end of the video
22:05 drojf in the beautiful opac
22:05 cait hm must havemissed that
22:05 rambutan joined #koha
22:06 jcamins http://paste.koha-community.org/106 <-- anyone have a good subject?
22:11 NateC joined #koha
22:12 drojf jcamins: i can tell you what some people will read: "my name is jared, please ask me for free support of the live dvd"
22:12 jcamins drojf: they read that anyway.
22:12 cjh heh
22:13 jcamins And if need be I'll send a message to the list stating categorically that all e-mail messages requesting free help that are addressed to me will be deleted unread.
22:14 drojf but you said you are volunteering your time! :O
22:14 * drojf hides
22:14 * jcamins does the "not RM and therefore able to tell people to... errr... go bug someone else" dance.
22:15 rangi heh
22:15 drojf lol
22:33 drojf midnight_mango++
22:34 jcamins Okay, message is sent.
22:36 pianohacker jcamins: Small question for you, as you've poked at Plack a fair amount. Are there specific coding practices/modules/problems that make it easy or hard to throw an existing CGI script into Plack?
22:36 jcamins plack?
22:36 wahanui Plack is a FastCGI thingy that works with Koha. See http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Plack for more information.
22:36 jcamins Hm.
22:36 jcamins plack guidelines?
22:36 jcamins fastcgi?
22:36 jcamins Oh well.
22:36 jcamins File-level variables are the worst.
22:37 jcamins Any sort of caching that doesn't include cache invalidation.
22:37 pianohacker File-level variables? "our" declarations in modules?
22:37 jcamins File-level returns and exits.
22:37 jcamins "our" works, but is almost always the wrong thing to do.
22:38 jcamins "my" will fail under Plack.
22:38 pianohacker gotcha. aside from the usual things like @EXPORT and @ISA, of course
22:38 jcamins Right.
22:38 cjh my variables are bad when you rely on them having a default value (ie; undef)
22:38 pianohacker jcamins: woah, what? something as simple as my $input = new CGI count (line 33 of admin/cities.pl, for example)?
22:38 cjh that can cause state to 'leak' between sessions T.T
22:39 jcamins pianohacker: it's okay in pl files that are compiled only into a single function.
22:39 rangi my is only bad
22:39 pianohacker also, what would you use in a script as a replacement for return or exit if you know that you need to fail early?
22:39 rangi because we are running an emulation mode
22:40 rangi which like jcamins says, means its all compiled into one
22:40 cjh sorry, I was saying 'that can cause state to leak' as a carry on to my previous comment, not in reply to pianohacker :)
22:40 rangi if its a true psgi script, that is not a problem
22:40 jcamins pianohacker: you can use return/exit, but you have to be very careful of side effects.
22:40 pianohacker right, the emulation is what seems to make this tricky
22:41 rangi pianohacker: its exactly that
22:42 pianohacker Do you have any scripts in particular in the plack repo that follow these guidelines well
22:42 pianohacker ?
22:43 jcamins Oh, and subs in pl files are really annoying.
22:43 cjh most of https://perl.apache.org/docs/g[…]rl_reference.html also applies to plack
22:43 pianohacker I'm guessing because of the "compiling-into-sub" trick...
22:43 cjh see the section talking about my variables for an explanation of the issues that arise (it talks about inner subroutines/closures which is exactly how the cgi->plack emulation works)
22:43 pianohacker which sucks, because they're an awesome way to encapsulate functionality in things like admin scripts
22:44 rangi its better to just put them in a module :)
22:44 rangi even if you only think you might use them once
22:45 pianohacker well, if they're messing with the DB, absolutely
22:46 rangi ideally your .pl file is 5 lines long
22:46 rangi get a template, get some user input, give it to a sub, output
22:47 rangi hell of a lot easier to unit test too
22:47 cjh rangi++
22:47 jcamins Hey... if we needed a macro in a pl file, we could use closures: my $thingy = sub { dostuff };
22:47 pianohacker hrm, I suppose. Feels kind of silly to have both all of our model _and_ controller code in C4 though
22:48 pianohacker Is that what we're aiming for? I'd hate to be griping at a strawman :)
22:48 rangi nothing new should be in C4
22:48 cjh model and controller arent really well defined anyway :)
22:48 rangi mvc is a nice idea ..
22:49 rangi but you cant take it too seriously
22:49 rangi like agile
22:49 rangi follow it strictly and suddenly its really unagile
22:49 cjh heh
22:49 pianohacker just using it as a terminology reference :)
22:50 rangi *nod*
22:51 rangi but yeah i think our biggest win
22:51 rangi for anything
22:51 rangi is 90% test coverage of all the subs ;)
22:51 pianohacker let me make sure I have this straight, though. Let's say I want to add a new admin module, to control library-specific frabnars. Would I make an admin/frabnar.pl that called subs from Koha::Admin::Frabnar, which in turn called data access subs in Koha::Frabnar, then generated the necessary output in the $template?
22:51 rangi then we can rearrange things to our hearts content and be sure we arent busting things
22:52 rangi most likely it wouldnt no
22:52 rangi what i would do is
22:52 rangi Koha::Admin::Frabnar
22:52 rangi subclass of Koha::Admin (if that made sense)
22:52 rangi and Koha::Database
22:52 rangi is where you access data
22:52 rangi using the $schema object
22:53 pianohacker Koha::Database::Frabnar?
22:53 rangi i wouldnt separte
22:53 pianohacker and, in the present day, using the $dbh module of course
22:53 rangi i would be more focused on getting Koha::Database pushed
22:54 rangi and using $schema->resultset etc
22:54 cjh so is Koha::Database using DBIx::Class ?
22:54 rangi yup
22:54 cjh neato!
22:55 pianohacker where is this Koha::Database you speak of? :)
22:55 pianohacker and thanks for going along with my silly example, trying to get a feel for where we're trying to go in terms of coding style
22:55 rangi id run this all past gmcharlt of course
22:56 pianohacker roight
22:56 rangi dang
22:56 rangi it was in its own patch
22:56 rangi but some people think squahing patches together is actually helpful
22:56 cjh has it now been absorbed by another feature?
22:56 rangi http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]&attachment=19248
22:56 rangi paul squashed all the patches on that bug together
22:56 rangi i mean sweet jesus
22:57 rangi who could code review that
22:57 pianohacker hahahaha holy god, the file listing alone almost goes off my screen
22:57 rangi exactly
22:57 cjh lol
22:57 cjh simple to qa, just test everything... T.T
22:57 rangi but if you click on Database.pm
22:58 rambutan left #koha
22:58 rangi actuall 2 secs
22:58 cjh use Modern::Perl, nice.
22:58 pianohacker woops, clicked all files, sorry firefox
22:58 jcamins cjh: just so long as it isn't also "use Moose;"
22:59 cjh heh
22:59 rangi http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]&attachment=19141
22:59 rangi easier to see
22:59 rangi the unit test is kinda a good tutorial
22:59 mtompset !@#$!@$ 469K patch?!
23:00 cjh I love it how it provides a nice interface but still allows you to grab the dbh :D
23:00 rangi also
23:00 rangi http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]g.cgi?id=8798#c86
23:00 huginn Bug 8798: enhancement, P3, ---, elliott, In Discussion , Add the use of DBIx::Class
23:00 pianohacker we'd still have some modules that deal with logic and may access the db on behalf of something else, correct? i.e., there would eventually be a Koha::Circulation that went through Koha::Database ?
23:00 rangi most likely yes
23:01 pianohacker kk
23:01 rangi however Koha::Database gives us almost all the methods we need
23:01 rangi so youd have something like
23:01 rangi Koha::Borrower
23:01 rangi Koha::Item
23:01 rangi and Koha::Circulation would interact with them
23:01 gmcharlt rangi: BTW, I'm toying with the notion that we don't actually check in the DBIC::Schema::Loader files
23:01 rangi is how id imagine it
23:01 cjh the future of Koha is bright.
23:02 gmcharlt instead, just generate them during installation
23:02 pianohacker that would be cleanest
23:02 rangi sounds good to me
23:02 cjh that does avoid a bunch of problems around versioning/modifying them, I like.
23:03 rangi pianohacker: the good thing is, Koha::Database worked with postgres
23:03 bag :)
23:03 rangi i just had to hack at my config file a bit
23:03 pianohacker damn, very cool
23:04 rangi i dumped the schema out
23:04 rangi of mysql
23:04 rangi created a postgresql db, loaded the schema in
23:04 rangi then had to manually insert some stuff
23:04 bag how much stuff?
23:04 rangi but i got gmcharlt's test script to run
23:04 bag small medium large?
23:04 bag heh
23:04 bag ah nice
23:04 rangi well i didn't try loading in any data
23:05 rangi so i just made some branchcategories and a branch
23:05 rangi manually
23:05 rangi but i suspect most of the .sql files would load in
23:13 pianohacker question: admin/cities.pl seems fairly straightforward, and does not depend on any sort of closure in StringSearch. the redirect line (85) seems questionable, but aside from that, would this break horribly under Plack?
23:13 pianohacker (just as an example)
23:13 rangi nope
23:14 rangi well there might be scope issues
23:14 pianohacker cool
23:14 pianohacker how so?
23:14 rangi lemme just quickly read it
23:15 pianohacker rangi++ # for patient explanation of all this
23:15 rangi actually no that should be ok
23:15 pianohacker cool
23:15 bag actually pianohacker it's awesome to have these questions in the logs :)
23:16 rangi you can test it easily enough :)
23:16 pianohacker my next project needs to be plackable (as opposed to implackable?), so I want to make sure I have a clear understanding of it
23:17 jcamins What's your next project?
23:17 jcamins Depending on what it is, you might be able to just make it a PSGI application.
23:18 rangi yeah
23:18 pianohacker SRU gateway to funnel axis360 (ebook service) through the Pazpar2 work I've been doing
23:18 rangi if that was possible that would be nicer
23:18 rangi you can write something that can be run as psgi and cgi
23:19 rangi and avoid having to use the wrapper/emulation
23:19 pianohacker would that significantly complicate deployment? It would be much technologically cleaner, but I'm looking at making more of these in the same vein, and don't want to make things too crazy
23:20 pianohacker I suppose I could make just one, actually
23:20 pianohacker but regardless
23:22 rangi thats why i like the .pl to be small, cos then converting it from pure CGI to PSGI is easy peasy :)
23:22 rangi also
23:22 rangi https://soundcloud.com/robscot[…]-the-fucking-moon
23:23 rangi will help your code
23:23 rangi specially from about 5 mins on
23:25 pianohacker hahahahaha wow
23:28 pianohacker I like the mix, though, thanks
23:28 pianohacker Good night #koha
23:28 rangi and while im distracting people https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xow-aK9KGs
23:29 maximep left #koha
23:34 irma joined #koha
23:36 jcamins be wizzyrea?
23:36 wahanui do you like my aspirational, irritatingly American, optimism?
23:36 jcamins Wow. I think that lightning strike was across the street.
23:36 jcamins Better shut down the computer, since it's a desktop.
23:37 * jcamins hopes to be back later, since he was actually planning on working.
23:45 drojf "The antenna design has been perfected to maximize read range with such a small device." why of course i wouldn't want to know the actual range but prefer to read what your marketing department made up?!

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