IRC log for #koha, 2013-06-10

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:31 edveal joined #koha
00:55 tcohen night #koha, cya tomorrow
01:17 rangi @later tell tcohen i always called it one week before so the 15th
01:17 huginn rangi: The operation succeeded.
01:19 bag hey chris
01:19 rangi hey bag
01:20 bag good weekend?
01:20 rangi yep not too bad, you?
01:20 bag eh worked on a migration
01:20 rangi ahh not the most fun weekend then
01:21 bag it was just me and Aloo this weekend - so that was fun!
01:21 rangi cool
01:22 rangi did you see the video i did?
01:27 bag which one?
01:27 bag from last weekend?
01:27 rangi[…]&
01:28 bag ha no I hadn't
01:29 wizzyrea that is really cool
01:33 mtj heyas...
01:33 mtj ooooh, is it done with gource chris?
01:36 rangi yep
01:37 jcamins What made you think of doing that visualization?
01:38 rangi id been planing to do it for a while, just finally got around to it
01:38 rangi its something you could run slightly delayed on a monitor if you wanted
01:39 wizzyrea would be cool for the library website too
01:40 rangi you could do it for anything that you timestamp
01:40 rangi i just have a little perl script that does a db query and generates a changelog from it
01:40 rangi then gource can do stuff like that
02:05 eythian joined #koha
02:06 jcamins eythian: you should demand a static IPv6 IP.
02:06 jcamins *address
02:06 eythian I should.
02:07 * jcamins gets out the signs for picketing Catalyst.
02:07 eythian I could also have my machine's name point to an AAAA on our internal network.
02:07 jcamins "Static IPv6 addresses for eythian! Static IPv6 addresses for eythian!"
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02:23 dgchina anybody here messed around with the mobile CSS for CCSR?
02:54 mtj hmm, not me dgchina...
02:56 wizzyrea the first question?
02:56 wahanui "What are you trying to do?" or "What is the goal?"
02:58 dgchina I noticed when you have content in the right sidebar of the ccsr theme, it shows up at the bottom of the mobile theme on some devices. That's with the css out of the box for both.
02:58 dgchina trying to figure out what needs to be changed in the mobile theme to either move it or remove it
03:00 mtj curious, what device...?
03:00 dgchina Samsung Galaxy S2
03:02 jcamins dgchina: you can change the OpacUserCSSMobile.
03:02 jcamins The right sidebar is supposed to be responsive.
03:02 dgchina if I edit OpacUserCSSMobile, it replaces the default CSS? Or is appended?
03:05 dgchina Haven't figured out yet what div I should be editing in OpacUserCSSMobile to move the right sidebar
03:05 jcamins It's appended.
03:06 jcamins #opacrightsidebar
03:06 jcamins I generally use Chrome's built in web developer tools or Firebug to find things like that, BTW.
03:06 jcamins I happen to know that only because I was working on bug 10405 earlier.
03:06 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10405 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , User-editable sections should have ids
03:07 dgchina yeah, I found #opacrightsidebar in Chrome, but its not mentioned at all in mobile.css
03:07 wizzyrea probably because it's using the CSS from non-mobile for that.
03:08 jcamins Why would it be mentioned in mobile.css?
03:14 jcamins Yay! Finished washing the dishes!
03:14 jcamins Good night, #koha.
03:15 eythian later
03:15 dgchina thx jcamins
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05:21 saa i am getting an error in kohaadmin and opac "Tag '0' is not a valid tag line 2346. how to sort out this error.
05:27 AmitG joined #koha
05:27 AmitG hi bag
05:27 AmitG hi bag
05:28 bag hey AmitG
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05:38 * magnuse waves
05:38 * cait waves
05:38 magnuse :-)
05:47 bigbrovar joined #koha
05:57 cait @wunder Konstanz
05:57 cait more rain :(
05:57 huginn cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 11.8°C (7:55 AM CEST on June 10, 2013). Conditions: Rain. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Steady).
06:00 magnuse @wunder boo
06:00 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 8.0°C (7:50 AM CEST on June 10, 2013). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: 7.0°C. Windchill: 5.0°C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Steady).
06:00 magnuse here too
06:00 bag @wunder 93102
06:00 huginn bag: The current temperature in Westside, Santa Barbara, California is 16.0°C (11:00 PM PDT on June 09, 2013). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 89%. Dew Point: 14.0°C. Pressure: 29.90 in 1012 hPa (Rising).
06:00 magnuse and wow did pootle get a facelift while i was away :-)
06:01 magnuse 16 in california in june - is that kind of cold?
06:01 magnuse and hiya bag
06:01 bag yo magnuse
06:02 magnuse wassup!
06:03 AmitG joined #koha
06:06 bag gosh I love a good wassup!
06:06 magnuse :-)
06:35 reiveune joined #koha
06:35 reiveune hello
06:35 wahanui hola, reiveune
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06:48 bigbrovar Hi guys, I installed koha (3.12) using the debain packages following the wiki, I just want to understand which user runs koha (and koha services) I understand that a koha user was created on the system with home directory at/var/lib/koha/library .. I am asking before, my previous experience with koha was with building it from source, and in that case I had to create a koha users who was responsibile for ownership of all koha related directories and and
06:49 bigbrovar runs the crons otherwise things won't work
06:49 bigbrovar is this the same case with the package install? I noticed root owns files under /usr/share/koha
06:49 cait have you looked at the commands made available by the packages?
06:50 cait the packages should take care of all of that I think
06:50 bigbrovar the tl;dr of all am saying is which user do koha crons run under
06:50 cait if you mess with permissoins you might break their magic :)
06:50 cait the user of your instance i think
06:50 cait but you shoudl take a look at the commands
06:50 cait it's mostly taken care of
06:50 bigbrovar cait: so I leave things as there are?
06:50 cait yeah, iw ould start with leaving things as they are
06:50 bigbrovar cait: can I run the debian command as root?
06:50 cait you are more likely to break something
06:50 AmitG heya cait
06:51 cait sorry i have to run
06:51 cait maybe ask around a little later
06:51 cait left #koha
06:53 bigbrovar cait: thanks
06:57 asaurat joined #koha
06:57 asaurat hi
06:57 magnuse bigbrovar: the short answer is that the packages take care of everything elated to users and permissions :-)
06:58 magnuse s/elated/related/
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07:07 bigbrovar magnuse: Thanks. but in case I want to setup crons like the /usr/share/koha/bin/cronjob​s/ under which user do I setup the cronjob
07:07 bigbrovar or does the package take care of cronjobs too?
07:07 magnuse they do, for a lot of things
07:07 magnuse the packages also provide commands for doing a lot of tasks
07:08 magnuse do "man koha-common" for an overview
07:08 bigbrovar magnuse: wow... am confused.. I just not use to people doing stuff for me.. but that is super cool.. but takes getting used to :D
07:09 magnuse hehe
07:09 magnuse for sending email messages there is koha-email-disable and koha-email-enable
07:09 bigbrovar makes koha very accessible especially and lowers the entry barrier
07:09 magnuse yup
07:10 magnuse those two should be all you need to enable sending email
07:11 bigbrovar let me get this right (its sounding too good to be true) so u mean I don't have to bother with setting up a cronjob and koha-common does that, or there is a koha-common command for setting up cronjobs
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07:12 gaetan_B hello
07:12 wahanui niihau, gaetan_B
07:13 magnuse bigbrovar: koha-common sets up a lot of cronjobs for you, have a look at /etc/cron.daily/koha-common  /etc/cron.d/koha-common  /etc/cron.hourly/koha-common to see which ones are set up
07:15 magnuse bigbrovar: in /etc/cron.d/koha-common there is: "*/15 * * * * root koha-foreach --enabled --email /usr/share/koha/bin/cronjob​s/" which means that messages are processed every 15 minutes, *for those instances that have email enabled* - which means all you have to do is run "sudo koha-email-enable <yourinstancename>"
07:16 AmitG joined #koha
07:16 saa can some one help me i am getting an error in kohaadmin and opac "Tag '0' is not a valid tag line 2346" hw to sort out this error. is it related to marc framework.
07:16 bigbrovar magnuse: :-o
07:18 bigbrovar magnuse: wow !
07:18 magnuse bigbrovar: :-)
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07:22 christophe_c hello #koha
07:28 saa joined #koha
07:30 bigbrovar magnuse: I am still having problems getting koha's email notification to work, especially after creating a user.
07:31 bigbrovar I configured postfix as mta and that work fine. and I set it that koha sent account details to newly created users. But when I create a user no email is sent
07:32 sophie_m joined #koha
07:34 magnuse bigbrovar: did you do "sudo koha-email-enable <instancename>"?
07:34 Oak joined #koha
07:35 * Oak waves
07:36 magnuse Oak
07:36 Oak magnuse
07:36 Oak :)
07:36 magnuse :-)
07:38 lds joined #koha
07:40 bigbrovar magnuse: yeah I did. My bad.. didnt include email in the user detail of the user I created. facepalm
07:44 magnuse bigbrovar: :-)
07:52 paul_p hi #koha
07:53 cait joined #koha
07:53 * cait waves
07:53 paul_p 'morning cait
07:53 cait hi paul_p :)
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08:03 mtj saa, sounds like a bad framework to me
08:05 cait hi mtj
08:07 mtj hi cait, and good morning europe
08:07 magnuse good evening mtj
08:07 Oak hello cait
08:07 wahanui hello cait are you here?
08:07 cait oh Oak!
08:07 cait i was thinking about you
08:07 Oak :)
08:39 bigbrovar_ .
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08:51 bigbrovar Hi guys, How can I customize the email notices sent by koha, especially concerning the contents
08:52 magnuse bigbrovar: have a look at Home › Tools › Notices & Slips
08:56 bigbrovar magnuse: Thanks.. am on it now
09:02 cait @wunder Frankfurt, Germany
09:02 huginn cait: The current temperature in Frankfurt, Germany is 16.8°C (11:00 AM CEST on June 10, 2013). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 29.85 in 1011 hPa (Rising).
09:07 bigbrovar @wunder Abuja, Nigeria
09:07 huginn bigbrovar: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
09:07 bigbrovar oh well
09:10 magnuse @wunder lagos, nigeria
09:10 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Lagos, Nigeria is 27.0°C (9:30 AM WAT on June 10, 2013). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 84%. Dew Point: 24.0°C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014 hPa (Steady).
09:10 magnuse @wunder boo
09:10 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 9.0°C (10:50 AM CEST on June 10, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 6.0°C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa (Steady).
09:10 magnuse @wunder abv
09:10 huginn magnuse: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
09:11 magnuse silly bot :-)
09:11 cait brr
09:14 cait wahanui botsnack cookie
09:14 wahanui thanks cait :)
09:41 cait joined #koha
09:55 magnuse @later tell khall: CONGRATULATIONS!
09:55 huginn magnuse: The operation succeeded.
10:26 bigbrovar joined #koha
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10:41 cait internetconnection_on_trains--
10:41 cait @wunder Baden-Baden
10:41 huginn cait: The current temperature in Buhlertal, Germany is 15.6°C (12:30 PM CEST on June 10, 2013). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 79%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Steady).
10:46 bigbrovar How can I get ldap authentication to work with Koha. I need just the authentication part not the user sync part. Hence users created in koha get to authenticate via ldap.. but an ldap user who hasn't been created in koha can't authenticate
10:52 cait i suggest you take a look at the manual :)
10:52 cait manual?
10:52 wahanui manual is at
11:21 saa joined #koha
11:21 saa as mentioned earlier i am getting Tag'0' is not a valid tag line 2346. is this related to bad marc framework. if so hw to delete existing bad marc framework and restore default one.
11:23 Oak @wunder islamabad
11:23 huginn Oak: The current temperature in Islamabad, Pakistan is 43.0°C (4:00 PM PKT on June 10, 2013). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 28%. Dew Point: 21.0°C. Pressure: 29.44 in 997 hPa (Rising).
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11:59 libsysguy happy b-day khall :)
12:14 khall hey libsysguy, thanks!
12:18 oleonard joined #koha
12:20 oleonard Hi #koha
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12:25 jcamins Good morning, #koha.
12:25 tcohen joined #koha
12:25 jcamins Happy birthday, khall!
12:25 khall thanks jcamins!
12:25 tcohen morning jcamins, #koha
12:25 tcohen happy birthday khall!
12:26 khall fun fact: each KohaCon I've been to has been during my birthday! Reno will break this pattern though.
12:26 tcohen @later tell rangi thanks
12:26 huginn tcohen: The operation succeeded.
12:27 * tcohen sings *its rmaint day, alleluya... itsrmaint day*
12:27 druthb mmf.
12:27 * druthb waves
12:27 tcohen hi druthb
12:29 druthb happy birthday, khall.  I didn't realize yours was just two days after mine.
12:29 khall thanks druthb! Happy birthday to you too!
12:30 druthb Thanks. :)
12:31 oleonard Happy birthday to you khall, and a belated happy birthday to you druthb
12:31 druthb :)
12:32 khall : )
12:32 * druthb is *trying* not to be a crotchety old woman this morning.  "fake it 'til you make it," mama always said.
12:32 Dyrcona joined #koha
12:33 oleonard I'm always extra-crotchety around my birthday
12:34 druthb I got to do some different things for my birthday weekend—on Friday, took Lindsey to the Natural Science museum.  It was lovely, and the butterflies were out in force at the Cockrell Butterfly Center.
12:34 druthb Lindsey found a butterfly that had escaped elsewhere in the museum, and shuttled it back quickly.  It wasn't very active, but was still alive.
12:35 druthb Saturday, my 45th birthday, I put her on a bus to Dallas to go apartment-hunting.
12:36 magnuse "gratulerer" to khall and belated "gratulerer" to druthb!
12:36 khall heh, thanks magnuse!
12:36 druthb Thanks, magnuse! :)
12:39 jcamins Gosh I have a helpful cat.
12:39 jcamins He is bound and determined to help me endorse a check.
12:40 tcohen heh
12:40 jwagner jcamins, he associates check with purchase of cat food?
12:40 jcamins Aaand he just put a claw most of the way through my hand.
12:40 druthb ow!
12:40 jcamins I'll say!
12:41 oleonard Oh no, and that was your signing-off hand!
12:42 * tcohen thinks Myshkin over stepped there, he'll have his food anyway
12:43 jcamins Yeah, he's lost his desk privileges for the day.
12:44 oleonard The shame.
12:57 jcamins oleonard: I have a question for you about how we do layouts in Koha. Is there a way to tile divs without having a separate row div (yui-g) for each row?
12:57 jcamins If I just use yui-b, I end up with a result like this:
12:58 oleonard jcamins: Not using the built-in YUI grid. You'd have to add some new layout CSS.
12:58 oleonard Are you not wanting to deal with the logic of when to create a new row?
12:59 jcamins Okay then, next question: do you have any objection to me adding layout CSS or using some of Bootstrap's layout CSS?
12:59 oleonard I have no objection to adding the CSS you need to get the job done
13:00 jcamins Right. I am adding the ability to specify as many contacts as you want, and I'd rather not have special case code for rows, when merely using a "float: left" on each div results in the desired layout.
13:04 magnuse jcamins: lazy! ;-)
13:04 jcamins magnuse: do you really want to maintain code in which a [% FOREACH %] starts with [% IF ... %]<div...>[% ELSE %]</div>[% END %] ? :P
13:05 oleonard jcamins: Have you looked at flexbox?
13:05 jcamins I have not. Do we use that/
13:05 jcamins *?
13:05 oleonard I don't think there is enough browser support for it yet, but it looks very useful:
13:05 oleonard CSS3
13:06 jcamins Ooh, interesting!
13:06 wahanui well, interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
13:07 oleonard
13:07 jcamins Yeah, the lack of current support in anything is a bit of an issue.
13:08 magnuse css3++
13:09 oleonard lack_of_current_support_in_anything--
13:09 oleonard IE-- # just for good measure
13:10 druthb @karma ie
13:10 huginn druthb: Karma for "ie" has been increased 1 time and decreased 94 times for a total karma of -93.
13:10 druthb whoa.
13:10 druthb @karma chrome
13:10 huginn druthb: chrome has neutral karma.
13:10 druthb !
13:10 druthb chrome++
13:10 jcamins druthb: presumably that karma increase was for "il est" rather than "internet explorer."
13:11 magnuse @karma firefox
13:11 huginn magnuse: Karma for "firefox" has been increased 1 time and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 1.
13:12 magnuse looks like ie is the only browser that evokes strong emotions :-)
13:12 druthb There are reasons for that.
13:13 druthb Chrome vs Firefox seems to be a preference thing, but they both appear to work *just fine* (except's pharmacy….that requires FF).  But IE..  uhm.
13:13 druthb doesn't.
13:13 magnuse lol
13:14 jcamins's pharmacy doesn't work in Chrome? That's kind of specific.
13:14 druthb It didn't, last time I tried to refill a scrip.  When you get to the "place this order" phase, to check and make sure your pickup store is  correct, Chrome just *hangs*
13:15 druthb In FF, it looks kind of AJAX-ey, so it may be doing something dodgy with a modal or something.  Not my itch to scratch.
13:16 jcamins Eww.
13:18 jcamins Wow, flexbox looks very cool.
13:23 khall question: now that we have used all the subfield letters in 952, where should additional item-level data be stored in a marc record?
13:24 jcamins Bit fields?
13:24 jcamins ^^ not a serious suggestion! Don't take it and run with it!
13:25 khall heh!
13:26 jcamins Headline: "Software developer single-handedly put library technology back thirty years, meets teenaged Henriette Avram."
13:27 jcamins *puts
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13:48 khall fyi, it looks like the answer to my question is field 942
13:49 khall or maybe not
13:50 khall it as fields for call number, which is item level, but also subfield 0 is for "Koha issues (borrowed), all copies" which isn't exactly item level.
13:50 khall s/as/has/
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14:04 magnuse khall: i think MARC is supposed to distinguish between uppercase and lowercase in subfield "names"? not sure how koha will eract to that, though
14:04 magnuse the correct answer is of course: "get rid of marc" ;-)
14:06 magnuse i might be wrong about uc/lc, though. not sure what my source is...
14:16 gmcharlt khall: no, not 942, that's bib-ish level
14:16 gmcharlt khall: what new field are you proposing?
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15:05 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: bug 6281: add Library::CallNumber::LC as a required Perl dependency <[…]d38a14b6fb93c904d> / bug 6281: introduce LC::CallNumber::LC for sorting LC call numbers <[…]56001d97f2a36fba5> / bug 6281: add test case for sorting LC call numbers correctly <http://git.
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15:07 reiveune bye
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15:43 oleonard Is rangi having problem with the machine running the IRC log?
15:43 jcamins Looks like it's working.
15:43 jcamins logs?
15:43 wahanui rumour has it logs is
15:44 jcamins The URL did change slightly. He took out /irclog/
15:44 mtompset joined #koha
15:44 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
15:45 * oleonard had always used stats.workbuffer...
15:46 jcamins Ah. Yeah, that server died.
15:52 gmcharlt @quote random
15:52 huginn gmcharlt: Quote #23: "<gmcharlt> /msg huginn register nick password" (added by wizzyrea_ at 04:25 PM, August 06, 2009)
15:52 gmcharlt boring
15:52 gmcharlt @quote random
15:52 huginn gmcharlt: Quote #211: "<paul_p> mtate a bug in C4/Search ? That's unbelievable !" (added by slef at 12:35 PM, July 17, 2012)
15:56 pianohacker heheheheheh
15:56 pianohacker <shiver>
15:59 oleonard Bug 2774 is going to take many blows to kill.
15:59 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2774 normal, P3, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , Path to theme is hard-coded in many places
16:00 gmcharlt oleonard: ZERG RUSH
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16:04 pianohacker kekekekekekeke
16:21 * oleonard tries to get QA's attention with Bug 9924
16:21 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9924 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Signed Off , Simplify and rename patron card creator error message include
16:22 pianohacker oleonard: Come to think of it, you're just the person. Mind if I ask you for a bit of admin styling advice?
16:22 oleonard Not at all
16:24 pianohacker oleonard: Working on a simple form to add a record to a table, much like the z39.50 admin, but I have a set of labeled checkboxes (corresponding to libraries) as the "value" for one item in the fieldset ol. What would be the best way to mark that up?
16:25 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 10311 - Holds queue ignores item-level holds where only one items exists <[…]b4b9a6dd2817ad8e9>
16:26 cait pianohacker: what will it do in the end? *curious*
16:26 oleonard pianohacker: I can't really picture what you want based on that description
16:26 oleonard pianohacker: checkboxes and radio buttons are always tricky to deal with, so I usually recommend looking to existing examples in the templates
16:28 oleonard Hang on, be right back.
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16:31 pianohacker cait: It's an option to select which libraries' patrons can use an external search target in the OPAC
16:32 cait oh
16:32 cait that sure sounds interesting
16:32 cait is that for licensensed databases?
16:32 cait with a properly spelled lic... word
16:32 pianohacker cait: I think eventually maybe, still working on that :)
16:32 cait oook
16:32 cait will try to be patient
16:32 cait :)
16:33 * oleonard can't spell license either without wondering if he got it right
16:33 pianohacker oleonard: So, one option here would be to use a select-multiple to select branches, but those things are kind of user-hostile IMO
16:33 oleonard Agreed.
16:33 pianohacker a set of checkboxes seems easier to navigate
16:33 * jcamins favors a more tag-y approach, but that has no justification in the existing Koha style guide.
16:34 pianohacker the problem is marking it up. May just end up throwing some custom CSS into the page header. As it's page specific, you have any problems with that?
16:34 oleonard jcamins: I worry that the concept of tags has never caught on and is now fading
16:35 jcamins oleonard: I don't know, that interface predates the web by quite a lot. Most of the old green screen programs used something similar for selecting.
16:35 oleonard pianohacker: No, but I'm still confused about what is so special about this situation. Not just a list of checkboxes in a standard form?
16:35 jcamins Okay, maybe not most.
16:35 oleonard jcamins: Perhaps I misunderstand what you mean by "tag-y"
16:36 pianohacker oleonard: Take a look at the "Branches limitation" part of the patron category edit form
16:36 jcamins But the student information horror that TCNJ used had something similar.
16:36 jcamins oleonard: where you select one of the unapplied tags, and it goes into a list of what's been applied, and then you can remove it from that list of applied tags.
16:37 jcamins The only place I've seen that on the web is with tags.
16:37 pianohacker oleonard: That's the functionality I'm aiming for. It would be possible to have it as checkboxes within the form, but it seems clearer to have it nested within a line of the form
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16:37 pianohacker jcamins: Ah! I think I know what you mean. I like that for editing tags, but I don't know if it's appropriate for this situation
16:37 pianohacker plus, it would be more work :)
16:38 jcamins Well, yeah, of course it would.
16:38 jcamins Never, _ever_ ask me for advice on a UI question.
16:38 jcamins (and I noticed you didn't... very clever;)
16:39 jcamins I generally like to do Bootstrap-like control-replacement, so that -- for example -- underneath it all is a slew of checkboxes, but the user doesn't have to see them.
16:40 jcamins I actually haven't done that for this particular interface element, though.
16:40 cait that sounds nice
16:40 pianohacker jcamins: Heheh, not intentionally not asking you ;) oleonard's just the guru
16:40 * jcamins makes a note of how useful that functionality would be.
16:41 jcamins pianohacker: ah, see, there's your mistake. You should've intentionally not asked. :P
16:41 * jcamins decides to eat some lunch.
16:41 pianohacker oleonard: nvm, that same patron category editing screen has a fieldset nested, that would work perfectly
16:41 * pianohacker runs off after having asked another question so long that it answered itself
16:42 * gmcharlt welcomes our rubber duck overlords
16:43 * pianohacker needs a rubber duck with the Google logo on the back
16:45 cait hm can someone explain the rubber duck joke? :)
16:45 pianohacker cait:[…]r-duck-debugging/
16:46 cait every time I think my english is pretty sufficient by now... you people start talking about something i have nooo idea about :)
16:48 pianohacker if select-multiples are user-hostile, english is user-detesting
17:03 paul_p joined #koha
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17:22 tomascohen is jenkins working?
17:24 cait hm it takes a whlie sometimes
17:25 cait tcohen: it looks like it's currently running the tests for master - you can see it on the dashboard
17:26 cait maybe it can't do all at the same time?
17:26 tcohen yes cait, just saw it, i missed jenkins telling us here that it started building 3.12.x
17:26 cait http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]/job/Koha_master/
17:26 cait it looks still working
17:31 tcohen bug 8600
17:31 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8600 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, pelletiermaxime, Pushed to Master , Remove search terms in advanced search
17:37 cait pianohacker++ thx for the rubberduck link )
17:37 pianohacker one of those wonderful terms that you learn and then realize you do it all the time
17:39 cait true
17:48 jlozano joined #koha
17:51 jlozano Hello! Anybody on?
17:53 * pianohacker is half-on, it's a monday
18:03 jlozano Ahh! I cant really see, have to use android client :(
18:04 pianohacker ahh, shoot. What's your question?
18:08 jlozano Weeeeel so. If someone searches the catalog (koha 3.11) after they click on a result they get a 500 sever error..
18:08 cait jlozano: hm there is no stable 3.11
18:08 cait the uneven number indicates this is a prerelease version
18:08 jlozano Buuut if they are logged in... even as a patron it works!
18:08 magnuse hm, still something iffy with the 3.10.6 packages? after upgrading i have "Koha version:"
18:09 tcohen bye #koha, see u tomorrow
18:09 cait bye tcohen
18:11 jlozano Ah. Didnt know about the uneven number thing.
18:12 cait but apart form that
18:12 cait i am not sure what would cause the problem you see
18:12 cait maybe try turning off opacsuppression if you have activated it
18:12 cait and empty out opachiddenitems
18:12 cait that could be something that is diferent between opac and staff
18:12 jlozano Obviously a permisson issue, oh well, were only using that instance of koha until august
18:14 jcamins You should think about upgrading (or downgrading) to a released version.
18:14 cait have you changed the xslt views?
18:14 jcamins There was a problem with anonymous search history.
18:14 jcamins You could also disable saving search history.
18:15 jlozano K, gonna start with opac suppression...
18:15 cait what jcamins says sounds familiar - maybe start even there:)
18:16 jcamins cait: yeah, the 3.12 RM threw a hissy fit about that breaking everything for anonymous users.
18:17 cait yeah... but he threw so many... hard to remember... ;)
18:17 druthb the 3.12 RM was good at throwing those.  :P
18:18 cait well, they were for the right reasons mostly
18:18 jcamins *Mostly*?
18:18 * cait ducks
18:19 jlozano OK JUST FIXED IT!
18:20 jlozano Disabling opacsearchhistory did the trick!
18:22 jcamins Good. I'd still suggest upgrading to a released version.
18:22 jlozano Jcamins, thanks! Gonna get a bywater in august, but untill then well use this.
18:24 jcamins That's 2-3 months using code that the RM (me) felt wasn't suitable for production use. I'd upgrade anyway.
18:34 rambutan joined #koha
18:35 rhcl joined #koha
19:18 maximep hey, I have a Holds question for you guys
19:18 maximep do I understand correctly that with the "Place a hold on the next available copy " checkbox, I can do infinite holds at the same hour ?
19:19 cait ?
19:19 maximep there's no check to really validate that a copy will be available ?
19:19 cait maximep: i don't understand your question really :)
19:19 cait the checkbox means that the next item that becomes available can fill the hold
19:19 cait or more precise that any item of that record can fill the hold
19:19 maximep ok so it's when you do the checkout that you choose an item ?
19:20 cait in opposite to an item level hold
19:20 cait maximep: i still think what you try to do should be a plugin ;)
19:20 cait because I am worried it will not really fit in with existing options :)
19:21 cait the difference is between only a special item fan fill the hold and all items of that record can fill the hold
19:21 maximep ok
19:21 cait when there is more than one item on the shelf, it won't matter which you check-in
19:21 cait they should all fill the hold and trigger the hold message
19:22 maximep ok, but if I understand correctly, in that case there's no check that an item will be available at the date of the hold
19:22 cait are you referring to the hold date in future feature?
19:22 maximep man, this whole holds thing is so confusing to me
19:22 cait it is confusing.
19:22 cait it is complex.
19:22 jcamins maximep: of course. If the item is going to be on hold until the future hold date, you might as well not make it a future hold date.
19:23 maximep especially since I haven't been to a library in 10 years
19:23 cait maximep: maybe with your job you shoudl remedy that
19:23 cait and go and sit at a circ desk for a while :)
19:23 maximep 2 years too late for that :p
19:23 cait it's never too late
19:24 cait :)
19:24 maximep yes, i'm talking about a an hold date in the future
19:24 jcamins maximep: you should visit a library.
19:24 maximep haha I should
19:25 cait seriously.
19:25 pianohacker "oh god this is why the circ people are always so grumpy!"
19:25 maximep but it really is our client's job to explain those stuff to me
19:25 * cait thinks library visits should be mandatory for all koha developers who are not librarians :P
19:25 pianohacker I dunno. Some liasons do a good job of explaining some things, but you don't get the... urgency of some things
19:25 oleonard maximep: Except your client doesn't know how to explain things well, even if they think they do.
19:26 pianohacker "It just takes 10 clicks to do that, why is that a problem?"
19:26 cait and they don#t know what's technically possible
19:26 cait so they will not tell you the best solution to the problem necessarily
19:26 jcamins pianohacker: even the ones who do a good job explaining things don't do a good job.
19:26 jcamins If you see what I mean.
19:27 jcamins Because they are living with the problem.
19:27 pianohacker heh, in some ways, yeah
19:27 maximep well, my client knows koha better than me and is pretty technical
19:28 maximep of course he doesn't know the code
19:28 maximep but who does -_-
19:28 libsysguy[…]tem-for-starters/
19:28 jcamins libsysguy: it's released?
19:29 jcamins Ah.
19:29 jcamins No.
19:30 Callender_ joined #koha
19:32 libsysguy not yet
19:32 libsysguy but the grid system is fairly stable
19:32 Callender__ joined #koha
19:33 cait maximep: don't let us make you grumpy :)
19:33 cait maximep: i think the hold date in future means it will take effect at that date, but not that you will get the item at this point
19:33 cait if they are all checked out then... you are out of luck
19:33 maximep hmmm
19:33 gmcharlt cait++ # agreed re Koha devs visiting libraries, including ideally some time working a circ desk
19:34 maximep the problem is that were not really a koha shop
19:34 maximep cait: that makes sense... somehow
19:35 cait i think marcelr has been some dev on the hold in future feature - but i haven't tested it yet
19:35 maximep i guess that's why we added a "set aside" feature, to make sure no one can borrow it in the meantime
19:35 cait it's in different states of sign off/qa etc.
19:35 gmcharlt at least one part of it is passed-QA
19:36 maximep hmmm didnt see that
19:37 Callender joined #koha
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19:42 rhcl joined #koha
19:50 libsysguy joined #koha
19:56 kathryn joined #koha
19:59 * magnuse adds some thoughts to bug 6590
19:59 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6590 enhancement, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, juan.sieira, In Discussion , Removing hyphens from isbn and issn when cataloging a biblio
19:59 rangi oleonard: used to be .. so it was pretty old, probably infused with evil, and was due to die
19:59 rangi brb atarau has got trapped in his pajamas
19:59 magnuse exorcise the demons!
20:02 rangi yeah so the logs run off my linode now, instead of an old server under a desk in my house
20:03 magnuse yay! :-)
20:04 * oleonard thinks rangi should pass around a hat at KohaCon for that linode
20:04 * magnuse would gladly contribute
20:05 rangi heh
20:05 rangi maybe i will
20:05 rangi but i want it filled with library cards
20:06 magnuse :-)
20:06 rangi may 2010
20:06 rangi so 3 years now
20:07 rangi wahanui: 24.95*13
20:07 wahanui 324.35
20:07 rangi its not so much :)
20:07 jcamins 13?
20:07 wahanui 13 is this one
20:07 rangi oh yeah
20:08 rangi hehe
20:08 rangi wahanui: 24.95*36
20:08 wahanui 898.2
20:08 rangi ok, so a bit more
20:08 oleonard Remember, when rangi says "library cards" he means the kind that go in here:[…]-a-liquor-cabinet
20:09 rangi heh
20:09 jcamins I like it!
20:09 pianohacker wahanui: acos(-1)
20:09 wahanui pianohacker: excuse me?
20:09 pianohacker aww
20:09 rangi i actually should do another call for library cards, so i can take some photos for kohacon13
20:10 jcamins You know, if I could get a narrow card catalog cabinet, it'd actually be perfect for the pantry.
20:10 rangi right time to take kids to school
20:12 * magnuse calls it a day
20:12 cait have a nice evening magnuse
20:12 cait well... or good night :)
20:14 oleonard Bye #koha
20:27 cait germs?
20:27 wahanui Germs originated in Germany, before rapidly spreading throughout the rest of the world.
20:27 jcamins germs?
20:27 wahanui rumour has it germs is
20:33 pianohacker hah!
20:48 mtompset anyone here familiar with encryption calls in PHP and Perl?
20:54 mtompset I'll take that as a no. Now for a nap.
20:54 mtompset Have a great day (24 hour period).
21:02 pianohacker rangi: I don't know if you're ever going to stop getting questions about 3.10.6's version number :)
21:02 cait ah
21:02 cait it will solve itself as soon as we have the next version out :)
21:07 rangi 11 days i will pianohacker
21:14 khall_away joined #koha
21:26 rangi welp
21:26 rangi i still hate that logger implementation
21:26 cait hm?
21:26 cait oh
21:27 rangi[…]g.cgi?id=8190#c58
21:27 huginn Bug 8190: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Add a logging module to Koha, that can report log message to staff interface (for developer use)
21:27 rangi i stand by this comment still
21:28 rangi i do not see the need for a great big new module that we then have to maintain, when someone has already solved the problem for us
21:29 * gmcharlt agrees with rangi
21:29 gmcharlt especially since the proposed logger doesn't even add syslog support
21:29 rangi *nod*
21:29 mcooper joined #koha
21:32 cait so how do we continue with the logger?
21:33 cait I can see that reusing something existing would make a lot of sense, but the bug is a bit of a dilemma
21:34 gmcharlt cait: well, the counterpatch rangi includes in the bug is actually a pretty comprehensive start
21:34 cait yeah, but noone picked it up so far, which is sad
21:34 gmcharlt the main things missing are (a) the usual documentation and syspreffing
21:34 gmcharlt and (b) implementing the in-HTML logs, which folks seem to want
21:35 cait hm yes
21:37 rangi ye
21:37 rangi s
21:42 cait ok, time to sleep - good night #koha :)
21:43 cait left #koha
22:00 jcamins The time has come to make pizza.
22:12 laurence joined #koha
22:12 laurence left #koha
22:21 laurence joined #koha
22:21 laurence left #koha
22:34 mtj i guess we can add/improve the logging patch, after its pushed
22:37 mtj add syslog stuff, swap the logging module to log4perl, etc…
22:37 rangi hell no
22:37 rangi swapping the module is not whats needed
22:38 rangi the point is, we dont need a whole new module
22:40 jcamins rangi: in my opinion, the point is more technical debt. We could replace the module, but that's one more thing that already "works" (for some value of "working") and needs to be refactored when someone has time and funding to do refactoring.
22:41 rangi yeah, pushing it now, would just make a mess for later
22:42 gmcharlt and we already have enough to refactor
22:50 tcohen joined #koha
23:06 rangi hi tcohen
23:07 tcohen hi rangi
23:07 tcohen its been a while
23:07 rangi yep, timezones
23:07 tcohen thanks for the repository thing
23:07 rangi hmm?
23:07 tcohen ppa?
23:07 wahanui somebody said ppa was ok for ubuntu
23:07 rangi ahh yep :)
23:09 tcohen i filled a bug on packaging naming, something only tcohen cares about
23:09 rangi heh
23:09 tcohen just wanted to write it somewhere
23:09 rangi you mean repository naming :)
23:09 tcohen should i mark it "In discussion"
23:09 rangi or pocket naming even
23:10 rangi ie not changing the name of the packages, just the pockets they live in
23:10 rangi thats right eh?
23:10 tcohen i'm fine with squeezy (love the name)
23:10 jcamins It involved changing the names of the packages, too.
23:10 rangi ahh thats much more problematic
23:10 rangi breaks upgrades
23:11 jcamins Yeah.
23:11 tcohen in an ideal world with transition packages it shouldnt
23:11 tcohen but its too much work!
23:11 rangi changing the names of the pockets i dont mind
23:11 rangi but the packages themselves are following the debian standard
23:12 rangi so we should stick with that, and our focus should be getting them into debian proper
23:12 jcamins What I'd do is make the change at the 3.14 release, since all the package naming gets screwed up every time we do a major release anyway.
23:12 tcohen oh, naming the pockets would do it, that's what you mean rangi?
23:12 rangi so our repo goes away (except for dev packages)
23:12 rangi jcamins: its never changed from koha-common
23:13 jcamins rangi: yeah, but suddenly koha-common is the wrong package.
23:13 rangi why?
23:14 rangi i can see that the pocket is wrong, if we put a new major version into stable
23:14 jcamins Exactly.
23:14 rangi but it should still be called koha-common
23:14 rangi so the package name doesnt change
23:14 rangi just we need better pocket names
23:15 jcamins That makes sense to me, and is how I handle my packages, but that's not what the bug report was for.
23:15 maximep left #koha
23:15 * rangi only skimmed it
23:16 rangi i think having a pocket for each major version number, would work
23:16 tcohen i actually didn't think of pockets... if i had... maybe i would have named the bug otherwise
23:16 rangi :)
23:17 tcohen my main concerns are (1) stable versions limit (2) forced upgrade because of (1)
23:17 tcohen i just liked the way virtualbox solved it (in debian apache 2.2 vs 2.4 would be the same thu)
23:17 rangi not quite
23:18 rangi they change far less
23:18 tcohen and didn't think of pockets
23:18 rangi thats workable if you only change every 2 years or so
23:18 papa joined #koha
23:18 rangi every six months, = mess
23:18 rangi pockets better for that i think
23:19 tcohen suppose we had 3.8, 3.10 and 3.12 pockets
23:19 rangi yep
23:19 tcohen how does it fit for koha-common inclusion in Debian?
23:20 gmcharlt tossing an idea out here ... why not aim for matching postgres' packaging
23:20 gmcharlt ?
23:20 gmcharlt e.g., koha-common-3.10, koha-common-3.12, etc., along with some scripts to 'move' Koha databases from one koha-common cluster to another?
23:20 tcohen that would be too tcohen-ish
23:21 rangi thats still every six montsh
23:21 rangi thats gonna be a nightmare to maintain
23:21 rangi id deal with that when we get a package ready for debian
23:22 gmcharlt yep, but would mean that our apt repo would serve the same function in Koha-land that does for Pg
23:22 rangi ie clean up the copyright, get a working koha package
23:22 * gmcharlt fully realizes that he's invoking the invisible smally army of packagers
23:22 rangi and then deal with numbering for debian
23:22 rangi but to solve the problem now of people accidentally going from 3.10.x to 3.12.x because they arent paying attention
23:22 rangi pockets would solve that
23:23 jcamins rangi: actually, to my mind the problem is less accidental upgrades and more "uh-oh, what happened to my preferred package?"
23:24 gmcharlt rangi: sure -- but I think the more time passes, the more pressure there's going to be to have the pockets be named anything other than squeeze for koha-common itself
23:24 jcamins The need for dist-upgrade prevents people upgrading by accident.
23:25 gmcharlt jcamins: though, to be pedantic, only by coincidence
23:25 gmcharlt one could imagine a Koha releae that adds no dependencies
23:25 jcamins Hmmm... yes, I suppose one could.
23:25 gmcharlt (one could also imagine porcine aviation, granted)
23:25 BobB joined #koha
23:27 * tcohen realizes people might be starting to hate him
23:28 rangi naw, i just think more important things to work on
23:28 rangi and that changing the package names unless we get 12 more packagers is not really sustainable
23:28 rangi the pockets however could be done
23:30 pianohacker bah. apparently installing dsl service does not, to centurylink's mind, include installing a jack and phone line. that's extra!
23:30 * pianohacker grumbles about waiting for his own internets 4 days longer
23:31 tcohen how often does debian release? two years?
23:31 tcohen hmm... that'd be 4 koha releases
23:36 dcook joined #koha
23:37 dcook morning #koha
23:37 tcohen morning dcook
23:37 dcook hey ya tcohen :)
23:38 pianohacker good night
23:38 wahanui I'll be waiting for you to come back, pianohacker.
23:38 dcook hehe
23:39 tcohen we don't have a fines or overdues table, am i right?
23:40 dcook Accountlines contains fine information, but I think only once they've been charged
23:40 jcamins There's accountlines and issues.
23:41 dcook Oh maybe FU is while accumulating..
23:41 rangi yes it is
23:41 rangi FU is if the item is still on loan
23:41 tcohen so accountlines/FU means unpaid fine
23:41 rangi FU and F can both be paid and unpaid
23:42 rangi if amountoutstanding = 0 they are paid
23:42 rangi one is still acruing though, the other isn't
23:42 tcohen i'm trying to think how to tie an OO model for recording suspensions with the way we handle overdues
23:42 tcohen (and fines)
23:42 rangi we should make
23:42 rangi Koha::Accounts
23:42 rangi and Koha::Accounts::Fines
23:43 rangi Koha::Accounts::Payments
23:43 * dcook thought that khall was looking at an accounting rewrite
23:43 rangi blah blah
23:43 wahanui rumour has it blah blah is important
23:43 rangi the hard bit is mapping, but thats soluble
23:43 tcohen what about suspensions rangi=
23:43 rangi but trying to fit an OO model to something that isnt OO
23:43 rangi will just make a mess
23:44 rangi so you need to start again
23:44 rangi and map to your new tables
23:46 tcohen the only thing i didn't figure yet is how to make a suspension a consecquence of an aggregation of overdues
23:47 tcohen something like "all overdues of items that were checked-in the same day" is a suspension

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