IRC log for #koha, 2013-06-06

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:00 eythian that does sound like something one could challenge.
00:00 jcamins He did.
00:00 jcamins And was told that the problem was that he his "citation was wrong."
00:00 dcook Time to see the department head?
00:00 dcook That sounds ridiculous
00:01 jcamins Yeah, I think so.
00:01 dcook Mind you, then you possibly get in that situation where you're sunk for the rest of the semester with that prof
00:01 dcook Mmm, lack of accountability in universities
00:01 dcook Lack of scholarship...
00:01 dcook Lack of...
00:01 jcamins Since it's the first class of his second MA, which he's doing part-time, he's thinking he'll just transfer.
00:01 * dcook isn't critical of formalized education at all...
00:02 dcook Mmm, fair enough.
00:02 dcook What's he studying?
00:02 jcamins Criminology.
00:02 dcook I'm a bit surprised that's an MA, but interesting nonetheless.
00:03 jcamins I think it's because he already has an MS in psychology, though I'm not really sure, now that you point that out.
00:10 eythian wahanui: insult
00:10 wahanui eythian: i'm not following you...
00:10 eythian wahanui: insult is <reply>I hope you step on a lego
00:10 wahanui No luck, eythian
00:11 eythian wahanui: insult is <reply>\I hope \you step on a lego
00:11 wahanui No luck, eythian
00:11 eythian ...
00:13 cjh[…]trategy-35619.jpg
00:13 eythian heh
01:09 drnoe joined #koha
01:15 jcamins So cool![…]erica-2013-6?op=1
01:18 dcook Mmm, that's interesting
01:19 dcook Oh my...
01:19 dcook That's surprisingly accurate with my corresponding anecdotal evidence
01:19 * jcamins grew up in a corridor of weirdness.
01:19 dcook The word for "sweetened carbondated beverage"
01:19 dcook I thought that all Americans had the tendency to say soda, based on the fact that my sister's ex said soda all the time
01:20 jcamins Bah. His main page is slashdotted. :(
01:20 dcook But he grew up on the border of Missouri and Illinois
01:20 dcook Which apparently is a hot spot for soda
01:20 jcamins I say soda.
01:20 dcook In a pop zone
01:20 tcohen joined #koha
01:20 dcook I think you're in a soda zone as well :o
01:21 dcook Hmm, this could be useful for memorizing USA geography...
01:27 dcook I wonder if I can get any of the Americans here saying fizzy drink...
01:27 * dcook swears sometimes that Australians make stuff up just to tease him
01:28 dcook Still learning all the slang here after a year and a half...
01:28 tcohen_ joined #koha
01:29 wizzyrea they do fizzy drink here too
01:29 * jcamins contemplates airline tickets to Reno.
01:30 dcook wizzyrea: I quite like the sound of it to be honest.
01:30 dcook I really need to remember to book my hotel for Reno this weekend..
01:31 dcook Apparently there were 44 non-fatal shootings in NSW in April 2012...
01:31 dcook Down to "only" 24 in March 2013
01:32 dcook[…]e.html?newsid=801
01:32 dcook Apparently, criminal intent has risen by 57.9% in two years..
01:33 * dcook knows how to kill the mood :p
01:33 dcook Figuratively...
01:38 jcamins Okay, I get into Reno 12:45pm on Thursday, and leave at 1:30pm on Monday.
01:39 dcook Cool. Look forward to seeing you there ^_^
01:46 mtompset Umm... I'm getting a strange error in my git koha.
01:46 dcook mtompset: What's up?
01:46 pastebot "mtompset" at pasted "What broke in the last update?!" (5 lines) at
01:47 jcamins Something in C4::Letters?
01:47 mtompset I didn't touch C4::Letters.
01:47 mtompset I did do a git rebase recently.
01:47 jcamins Something is broken in C4::Letters, based on that error message.
01:47 jcamins No idea what.
01:48 wahanui no idea what is, like, going on
01:48 mtompset is there a way of knowing what was updated in the last couple hours?
01:50 * dcook shrugs
01:50 dcook You're on master?
01:50 eythian did you look on line 220 of C4/
01:51 dcook Looks like the getalert sub
01:51 dcook In master, at least
01:51 jcamins mtompset: `git log` but that's not likely to help you here, because it probably wasn't something pushed in the last few hours.
01:52 mtompset it was.
01:52 mtompset because I did a git pull this morning.
01:52 mtompset and I did a git pull this afternoon.
01:52 dcook Yeah, you could use git log and --name-only to see which files were changed and go from there if you want
01:53 eythian or just 'git log C4/'
01:53 eythian but first you should have a look at the line the error is coming from
01:53 jcamins The last change to that file was two weeks ago.
01:53 dcook It might not be
01:53 dcook It might be a file that uses the getalert sub from it
01:53 eythian but it might be
01:53 eythian the error is coming from there
01:53 dcook Certainly worth a look :)
01:55 dcook Actually..
01:55 dcook I haven't done much with prepared SQL statements
01:55 dcook But does that sub look funny to anyone else?
01:56 dcook Oh wait, nvm
01:56 dcook Durr
01:56 dcook Looking at the wrong line
01:56 drnoe_away left #koha
01:56 jcamins In the sense of "surely we could do it better" or the sense of "wrong"?
01:57 dcook In the sense that I was looking at a line which was irrelevant to the problem
01:57 dcook Saw @bind with one eye and part of a different line with the other
01:58 mtompset I triggered a database update, and it fixed itself.
01:58 mtompset I blame the patch that changed Independant to Independent. :P
01:58 dcook Although now that you mention doing it better...
01:59 mtompset But I don't really know.
01:59 * dcook shrugs and goes back about his business
02:01 mtompset YAY! I successfully logged in as an authenticated and real email address OpenIdP user. :)
02:02 mtompset Now for the uglier part of the code tomorrow. :)
02:02 mtompset Adding an authenticate user with basic permissions into koha and then using that. :)
02:05 rangi[…]rizon-court-order
02:05 rangi if you verizon, dont say bomb
02:06 eythian what happens if you do really bad at a play?
02:06 rangi actually if you call anyone using verizon too
02:06 rangi thast a lot of phone calls
02:09 dcook "The document shows for the first time..."
02:09 dcook I have my doubts there
02:09 dcook I'm sure it's been going on for years at this point
02:10 dcook I doubt a switch of government really stopped that
02:10 jcamins dcook: you're misreading that.
02:11 dcook I must be
02:11 jcamins For the first time, it is shown that (all along)...
02:11 dcook lol
02:12 dac joined #koha
02:15 jcamins dcook: are you using the OFTC web client?
02:15 eythian is it just me, or does this warning:
02:15 eythian > NOTE: If you change an authorised value, existing records using it won't be updated.
02:15 eythian sound like the exact opposite of what happens?
02:15 eythian ah, it's cos you can change the code
02:16 jcamins I think that should say "if you change the code of an authorised value..."
02:16 eythian so of the handful of fields, only one of them doesn't cause records using them to be updated
02:16 eythian it should probably be moved into the edit screen, too
02:17 dac joined #koha
02:17 dcook Sporadic internet troubles :/
02:17 * jcamins observed. :P
02:17 jcamins Are you using the web client?
02:17 jcamins Your hostmask looks odd.
02:20 dac joined #koha
02:28 dcook I think I'm back now...
02:29 dcook Nope, no web client. Using Xchat on my workstation. Having issues with the office link, me thinks.
02:29 eythian bug 9299 could really do with a signoff if someone has nothing better to do, or uses LDAP.
02:29 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9299 major, P3, ---, srdjan, Needs Signoff , for loop in requires an extended patron attribute to be set or LDAP logins fail
02:33 dac joined #koha
02:34 jcamins Heh. I'm thinking the internet is not quite sorted.
02:35 dac I am inclined to agree. I'll probably just log off in a minute to save you all the nuisance of my constant entry and exit :p
02:36 eythian jcamins: say we wanted an authority search to _only_ search 690, ignoring the fact that another record might have a match in 650. How would you go about doing that?
02:37 eythian Actually, specifically the "Search Main Headings" thing
02:41 jcamins eythian: you'd need to add an index that only searches that field.
02:42 jcamins Something along the lines of...
02:42 jcamins[…]979e931b26e1c727b
02:43 jcamins Except you'll probably not want to make a change that can only be done in the processed DOM filter.
02:43 eythian so you add something like that, and then you add a new authority type in Koha that matches that?
02:43 eythian I'm not sure what you mean there
02:44 eythian (my zebra knowledge is a bit weak)
02:44 jcamins What are you trying to do?
02:44 jcamins Since you're talking about authority types, I think maybe I didn't understand.
02:44 eythian trying to figure out how hard it would be to have a search that would only search on 690.
02:45 jcamins 690 is a bibliographic not authority heading field, so I thought you wanted to search for bibliographic records based on their 690 field.
02:45 jcamins Very easy.
02:45 eythian ah right
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02:45 jcamins Actually, I have examples that are slightly less voodoo-y.
02:46 jcamins[…]d81aa2089ee60e2d2
02:46 eythian I think effectively, if I can remove anything 6[^9]. from the "Search main heading" function, that would do the job.
02:46 dcook We actually added a separate index for the 690..
02:46 dcook Keep meaning to submit a patch for that
02:46 jcamins I don't think we're talking about the same things.
02:46 eythian Actually
02:46 jcamins Because "Search main heading" and 690 fields are completely unrelated.
02:47 eythian oh
02:47 jcamins So, walk me through an example of what you're trying to accomplish, and I'll answer your question instead of mine. :)
02:47 eythian I can just make the linker not link the 650 stuff up
02:48 jcamins Okay, so actually what you want is to link 690 fields but not 650s, etc.?
02:48 eythian Well, their concern is that if you search for "archives" in "Search main heading" you get three records. Two of which have "archives" in the 650. They only want 690 to show up.
02:48 eythian yeah. I think I was looking at it from the wrong direction
02:48 jcamins Where do they do this "Search main heading"?
02:49 jcamins Search main heading searches 1xx, only.
02:49 eythian authorities/, using hte 'search main heading' tab.
02:49 eythian oh, I short-cutted
02:49 eythian you get one authority record with three biblios
02:49 eythian that probably clears it up noticably more
02:50 jcamins Ah!
02:50 jcamins Okay, yes, you'll just have to tell the linker to skip 6[^9]. fields.
02:50 eythian OK cool
02:51 mtompset Well, have a great day (24 hour period), Koha.
02:51 * mtompset leaves hopping and skipping and screaming, "It works for existing users! It works for existing users!"
02:53 wizzyrea ...
02:55 eythian dcook: what is your 690 patch, cos I submitted one a wekk or two ago
02:55 eythian that just adds it to the authorities linker.
02:55 dcook Mmm, this is one that Edmund wrote a little while ago
02:55 * dcook takes a look
02:55 dcook I think it just adds it the Zebra indexes
02:56 * dcook isn't too familiar with the linker
02:56 dcook "isn't too" = "not at all"
02:57 dcook Yep, our patch just adds it to bib1.att,,record.abs, and
02:57 dcook Like the example that jcamins posted, me thinks
02:57 dcook Yep. Just like that.
02:58 eythian ah right
02:58 eythian different from mine then :)
02:58 dcook In other words, we attach it to an arbitrary attribute in bib1.att, link it to the label "LocalSubject" in, melm the 690 to "LocalSubject" (and Subject, apparently)
02:59 dcook Then tell to retrieve it
02:59 dcook What's yours?
02:59 wahanui well, yours is better actually
02:59 eythian just allows 690 to be linked to the TOPIC_TERM authority values
03:01 dcook Hmm, I'm not sure that I follow
03:03 dcook bug 10308
03:03 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10308 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, robin, Needs Signoff , Authorities linker should handle the "local subject added entry" fields.
03:04 eythian yeah, that one
03:04 wahanui yeah, that one is probably worrisome to me
03:06 dcook I think I follow now
03:06 dcook do you "make sure your framework doesn't have 690 set up to link to
03:06 dcook authorities (or it'll get linked as part of cataloguing.)"?
03:07 eythian oh, that's just for testing. It's because if you tell the framework that 690 is linked, it'll do it for you, which isn't testing the linker
03:08 dcook But how do you tell the framework that it's linked?
03:09 dcook Through the "thesaurus" field?
03:09 eythian I think that's it, yeah
03:09 eythian yep, it is
03:11 dcook So when you run that linker script, it updates the framework?
03:11 eythian no
03:11 dcook It sets up the $9 to link the bib and authority?
03:11 eythian yep
03:12 dcook Why would having a value in the thesaurus field change that?
03:12 eythian it doesn't, but if the framework was set up with a thesaurus, the process of cataloguing will create the link for you, so the linker does nothing
03:13 dcook Mmm, I see what you're saying now
03:13 dcook Hence the for testing part...I gotcha
03:13 eythian yeah
03:13 dcook Thanks for enlightening me :)
03:13 eythian np :)
03:15 dcook I find the linker syspref descriptions to be a bit...unhelpful :p
03:15 dcook But I haven't had enough cause to really investigate yet
03:15 dcook :/
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03:27 mtj hi peeps, does anyone have a good file of bib records for importing into koha - with 952 items?
03:28 dcook I don't but that would be great to have and post on the wiki...
03:28 mtj ages ago, i wrote a script to generate and attach random items to bibs
03:29 mtj i wonder where the hell that is! :p
03:30 mtj dcook, if i sort one, i will :)
03:30 dcook :D
03:35 wizzyrea mtj - the one in my github has items that go with the sample branches
03:36 wizzyrea[…]master/MARC21.mrc
03:36 wizzyrea ^ you'll wanna download that
03:36 mtj wizzyrea++ <3
03:36 wizzyrea science and bear both work as searches on that data.
03:36 wizzyrea :P
03:36 wizzyrea there's lots of stuff.
04:06 dcook IE--
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05:09 eythian > Error converting time/date. Value supplied: 01/91/1991, Format used: %d/%m/%Y
05:09 eythian what the I don't even...
05:10 dcook O_o
05:10 cjh lol
05:10 * dcook waves to cait
05:10 cait1 joined #koha
05:11 cait1 good morning #koha
05:12 cjh good night cait1 :)
05:12 cait1 night? :)
05:12 * cjh is about to wander home
05:13 cjh it is 5:15, that is night enough :)
05:14 cait1 have a nice evening :)
05:15 cjh you too... in 8 hours or so.
05:15 dcook cya cjh
05:17 cjh cya :)
05:17 * eythian wonders if I have any more cases of ninetyonember.
05:17 eythian apparently not
05:20 cait1 ?
05:20 eythian <eythian> > Error converting time/date. Value supplied: 01/91/1991, Format used: %d/%m/%Y
05:20 eythian <eythian> what the I don't even...
05:21 eythian for all the failings of the various MARC formats, it does have the advantage that this works:
05:21 eythian $ cat dia_liberty.marc dia_articles.marc > dia.marc
06:11 cjh oh neat, I wasnt aware marc worked in a way that allowed cat-ing.
06:11 cjh (marc is still black magic to me)
06:15 dcook Javascript is still somewhat black magic to me
06:15 dcook But I'm building a plugin for Tinymce anyway O_O
06:15 dcook It's actually surprisingly fun...
06:30 Irma joined #koha
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06:31 reiveune hello
06:32 dcook hey ya reiveune
06:32 dcook wb Irma
06:33 cait1 morning all :)
06:33 cait1 dcook: a koha plugin?
06:33 dcook late afternoon, cait1 ^_^
06:33 dcook cait1: Nope, it's for that side project we're doing
06:34 dcook But after I'm done with this, I think I'll feel reasonably knowledgeable about doing Tinymce plugins for Koha
06:34 drojf joined #koha
06:34 dcook Not that we use it that much, me thinks
06:34 dcook hey ya drojf
06:34 marcelr joined #koha
06:34 marcelr hi #koha
06:34 dcook hey marcelr
06:34 cait1 hi marcelr :)
06:34 marcelr hi dcook and cait1
06:35 drojf good morning #koha
06:35 marcelr hi drojf
06:37 drojf hi dcook, cait and marcelr
06:37 cait morning drojf
06:38 kathryn joined #koha
06:39 cait hi kathryn
06:39 kathryn hi cait :)
06:41 christophe_c joined #koha
06:42 christophe_c hello #koha
06:42 marcelr hi christophe_c
06:42 cait :)
06:42 christophe_c hi marcelr ;-)
06:44 cait bbl :)
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06:59 asaurat joined #koha
06:59 asaurat hi
07:02 francharb joined #koha
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07:02 francharb good morning  #koha
07:03 francharb` joined #koha
07:04 marcelr hi francharb
07:11 kf joined #koha
07:11 kf good morning #koha
07:15 gaetan_B joined #koha
07:15 gaetan_B hello
07:15 wahanui hey, gaetan_B
07:17 marcelr hi gaetan_B
07:18 marcelr any news wahanui?
07:18 marcelr :)
07:19 * marcelr posted a question on a pushed bug report, bug 7718
07:19 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7718 normal, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Pushed to Master , Remove itemnumber column from serials table
07:20 * marcelr and wonders if it gets noticed
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07:34 kf joined #koha
07:34 kf hm
07:34 kf for some unknown reason my compuer decided to restart?
07:34 kf bug 9999
07:34 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9999 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Reconstruct pref values via action_logs
07:35 kf after i clicked on a link
07:35 marcelr hope it was not the link to bug 9999 :)
07:36 kf that was just for testing :)
07:36 marcelr nice bug
08:00 laurence joined #koha
08:16 rangi heh fridolyn is answering mails from october last year
08:29 kf maybe he is going back in time? :)
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10:22 cjh finally found some time to catch up on rmaint for 3.8.x \o/
10:23 kf cjh++ :)
10:26 cjh after jenkins gives me the good news I think it will be time for bed.
10:46 * cjh gives up waiting and crawls into bed
10:47 kf wise :)
10:54 gaetan_B i am trying to edit the community wiki
10:55 gaetan_B to add an handy way of having a more multilingual opac
10:55 gaetan_B but i keep getting an internal error when saving
10:55 gaetan_B any idea what is going on ?
10:56 gaetan_B i get this :
10:56 gaetan_B MediaWiki internal error.
10:56 gaetan_B Exception caught inside exception handler
10:58 kf ugh
10:58 kf when you try to do what?
10:59 gaetan_B just saving the page
10:59 gaetan_B ow
10:59 gaetan_B i need to run
10:59 gaetan_B catch you later ;) !
10:59 kf ok, cya later
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12:19 gaetan_B back
12:19 gaetan_B so
12:19 gaetan_B am i the only one having troubles editing a page on the wiki ?
12:21 drojf joined #koha
12:24 jcamins I can't even log into the wiki.
12:28 gaetan_B well i am still logged ine
12:28 gaetan_B i'll try logging out and back in
12:29 NateC joined #koha
12:29 gaetan_B ah, now it says there seems to be a problem with my login session
12:30 jcamins We should have a bookmarklet like that for Koha.
12:32 edveal joined #koha
12:34 gmcharlt @quote random
12:34 huginn` gmcharlt: Quote #229: "rangi: relax, I signed it off :)" (added by wizzyrea at 08:59 PM, January 02, 2013)
12:34 jcamins gmcharlt: oh, I was going to leave a message for you with huginn to ask if there was any chance you could check what's wrong with the wiki.
12:35 gmcharlt looking
12:35 jcamins Thanks.
12:39 gmcharlt jcamins: gaetan_B: should be better now
12:39 jcamins Thanks.
12:39 * gmcharlt turns to looking at the *main* website
12:40 jcamins Uh-oh. Problems there too?
12:40 jcamins Oh. Ouch.
12:40 gmcharlt OOOOOOM-KIIIILLLLLERRRR! </shatner>
12:43 gmcharlt OK, better now
12:43 gmcharlt @later tell wizzyrea I think the website box needs more swap
12:43 huginn` gmcharlt: The operation succeeded.
12:45 NateC joined #koha
12:49 gaetan_B thanks gmcharlt ;)
12:50 gaetan_B here's what i added, people with multiple languages on the opac might want to use this and maybe make it better :
12:50 gaetan_B[…]more_multilingual
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12:52 jcamins gaetan_B: I have a suggestion for improvement. ;)
12:52 jcamins It would be possible to make it CSS-only with a very simple patch.
12:53 jcamins Add class="lang-xx-XX" to the body on every page.
12:53 gaetan_B oh
12:53 gaetan_B that could be welcome
12:53 gaetan_B i didn't want to touch the code
12:53 jcamins Then you don't have to worry about someone overwriting your custom JS.
12:54 jcamins :)
12:54 gaetan_B yes, or the part of the js you have to fetch from outside at the moment to be unavailable
12:54 jcamins I think jquery.cookie is in 3.12.
12:55 jcamins But I still like my suggestion. :)
13:04 gaetan_B i also favor doing it without javacript anytime
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13:12 kf gaetan_B: sneaky! I did something similar but with if/else constructs... that is a lot niver
13:12 kf nicer
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13:15 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 10413 - Odd space character breaks translation <[…]2c6cdd3ee78559f6a>
13:15 gaetan_B :)
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13:32 jcamins Probably not the recommended way for finding duplicate authorities: grep -E "^1" auths.mrk | sort | uniq -c | grep -vE "^ *1 " | sort -nr
13:32 kf @later tell tcohen can you please consider bug 10249 for 3.12? :)
13:32 huginn` kf: The operation succeeded.
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13:38 samueld hi everybody
13:39 gmcharlt jcamins: heh
13:40 rhcl joined #koha
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13:42 jcamins gmcharlt: I am trying to prepare a sample file for testing authority deduplication.
13:43 jcamins I figure a quick grep in a file containing 190k authorities should turn up something useful.
13:43 khall joined #koha
13:43 gmcharlt jcamins: figured -- and not actually knocking that bit of shell -- certainly is a good approximation
13:43 jcamins I suspect it's actually not far off what some of the authority control vendors do.
14:09 jcamins I think this is my favorite 150: 150 ## $a** REQUIRED FIELD **
14:14 jcamins gmcharlt: I have a question about MARC::Batch. Does ->next() create a new object, or does it reuse the existing object?
14:20 gmcharlt jcamins: new record
14:21 jcamins Yay!
14:21 jcamins Thanks.
14:21 gmcharlt though that's determined by the decode method of method of the MARC::File::FOO class in question
14:21 gmcharlt but those all create new objects
14:23 * jcamins hums the "I hate bad data" song.
14:23 jcamins Thank goodness for strict_off.
14:27 jcamins Weird data of the day: Invalid indicators " " forced to blank.
14:40 jcamins Is there a preferred way of writing an array of MARC::Records to a file?
14:40 jcamins I usually just print ->as_usmarc().
14:44 gmcharlt as do I
14:45 jcamins Not that I really need to worry about best practices with a script that I will run only once.
14:55 MurphyIsTheLaw jcamins: quite sure that you'll need it just once?
14:55 gmcharlt ;)
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15:08 reiveune bye
15:08 reiveune left #koha
15:09 jcamins You know, I don't feel so good about the included technology at Kohacon.
15:10 jcamins Apparently the hotel can't manage to send confirmation e-mails.
15:10 BigRig_ joined #koha
15:11 kf jcamins: the hotel?
15:11 jcamins Right.
15:11 jcamins I just booked the room.
15:11 BigRig_ joined #koha
15:11 jcamins And got a nice error message saying something like "Can't send e-mail failed to find template EMLMFHD Close[X]"
15:12 jcamins The Close[X] was a button.
15:12 BigRig__ joined #koha
15:14 kf oh
15:14 kf i hope it will work for me... hm.
15:15 jcamins The booking appears to have gone through okay.
15:15 jcamins It's just the confirmation message that failed.
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15:25 pianohacker goood morning
15:31 jcamins Oh, yes.
15:31 jcamins Now I remember why I found working with matching rules so frustrating.
15:31 jcamins You have to restart plack every time you want to view the administration page.
15:33 pianohacker that's odd. what happens otherwise?
15:33 jcamins It doesn't work.
15:33 jcamins No errors, but also nothing saved.
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16:58 gaetan_B bye !
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19:08 jcamins Alas, no oleonard.
19:18 rambutan joined #koha
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19:23 jcamins Gee, I really wish a TT expert like rangi or cjh was around!
19:23 * jcamins looks around hopefully.
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19:27 rangi sup?
19:28 jcamins I'm wondering if there is any way to make sure that only local variables are used in a block.
19:28 jcamins I have a block that uses the [% contact %] variable.
19:29 jcamins I'd like to make sure that it doesn't fall back to the global contact variable if contact= wasn't specified when it was processed.
19:30 cait morning rangi hi all
19:30 jcamins If I have to, I'll change it to use [% %] but I'd prefer not to dramatically change the existing templates if possible.
19:33 rangi hmmm
19:34 rangi hi cait
19:35 rangi jcamins: i dont know of a way other than dotting
19:35 jcamins Okay. That's what I'll do, then.
19:36 jcamins Actually, I just realized something.
19:36 jcamins I could do [% INCLUDE show_contact var={'contact' => ...
19:37 jcamins Thus avoiding any API changes and making it clear what I'm doing all at once.
19:38 rangi true :)
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20:43 jcamins You know what?
20:43 jcamins I'm changing this API because I think the current API is dumb.
20:44 cait yay :)
20:45 JesseM left #koha
20:49 jcamins gmcharlt: I seek your opinion. I am working on but 10402, and my inclination is to maintain the existing acquisitions structures as-is because of the principle of least surprise.
20:49 jcamins *bug 10402
20:49 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10402 new feature, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, ASSIGNED , Add multiple contacts for vendors
20:50 jcamins However, the part of me that likes elegant says "why can't the existing contacts be made into the first contact entry in the new aqcontacts (or whatever) table.
20:50 jcamins "
20:50 jcamins And it says that in a quizzical tone of voice appropriate for a question.
20:50 cait hm
20:52 jcamins So my question is, what do you think on the matter?
20:54 cait something in me says having the first will make migrations easier... and it woudl be the one to use the email address from for mails etc.
20:54 mtompset joined #koha
20:54 cait which makes me wonder where else we are using vendor information... i think claim mails, claim letters... and?
20:54 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
20:54 mtompset Greetings, cait.
20:55 * cait should just continue reading bug mails
20:55 jcamins cait: unfortunately we use "contact" for both vendors and patrons, which makes a quick grep rather useless.
20:55 mtompset Greetings, jcamins.
20:56 jcamins However, so far I've only found it when displaying the vendors and in notices.
20:58 cait hm maybe check the email sending for claims too
20:58 jcamins That was included in "notices."
20:58 jcamins :)
20:58 cait ok :)
20:59 jcamins But we haven't even established whether it would be worthwhile to worry about identifying where contact information is used.
21:01 cait how will you distinguish between the different contacts?
21:01 cait is there a type? or something like primary secondary?
21:01 mjk joined #koha
21:01 jcamins Primary/secondary.
21:02 mjk hey there. quick question: does the barcode generator rely on some specific fons or something? i tried to create some barcodes on my test instance based on the koha live dvd and they were all garbled/blank
21:02 jcamins I believe it does, yes.
21:03 jcamins Unfortunately, I don't know anything more than that, and I don't think anyone who uses the barcode printer is around.
21:03 mjk oh well
21:03 mtompset Oh yuck. Persona logins use javascript.
21:03 jcamins Wait around a few minutes, in case someone else sees your question and knows the answer.
21:03 jcamins mtompset: yes.
21:04 mjk also, is there a good free z39.50 target for a/v materials?
21:04 jcamins Ooh, only tough questions from you today!
21:04 rangi or the livedvd for that matter
21:04 jcamins Or the livedvd, yeah.
21:04 jcamins It depends on what exactly you have, but generally the answer is "not really."
21:05 mjk i'm working on building a catalog for my local sciefce fiction club's 10,000+ volume library and while the TPL has been a good source of book records, nobody seems to have dvds
21:05 mjk *science
21:05 jcamins I'd see about some of the bigger/richer public library systems.
21:06 * wizzyrea waves
21:06 jcamins Minneapolis, Minute[something] etc.
21:06 jcamins Not Minneapolis. Hennepin.
21:07 cait hi wizzyrea
21:07 cait :)
21:07 gmcharlt jcamins: gut reaction -- aqcontacts++
21:08 mtompset Greetings, rangi mjk wizzyrea and gmcharlt. :)
21:08 mjk hey
21:08 jcamins gmcharlt: okay, thanks.
21:08 gmcharlt hi mtompset
21:08 jcamins And if it's too messy, I'll bail and suggest that we keep one contact in aqbooksellers.
21:09 mjk personally i'm sad because so many libraies have gone over to the oclc/worldcat dark side and shut off public z39.50 access
21:09 jcamins Actually, I'm not sure it's so much shutting off public Z39.50 access as never having known how to set it up in the first place.
21:11 mtompset Why do you call it the dark side, mjk?
21:11 jcamins Because they have a bona fide Darth Vader escorted by storm troopers?
21:12 jcamins Oh, wait, that's Bowker.
21:12 jcamins Do we have anywhere in Koha that we set up both an object and it's 1-n children on the same page?
21:12 mjk because the oclc terms mean that non-member have to be prevented from getting access to machine readable records and that makes my life as a volunteer for a SF club a lot harder
21:12 rangi and elsevier
21:12 rangi mtompset: its also yucky proprietary software :)
21:13 mjk i'm especially annoyed about the university of california as their uc riverside library was a good source for SF records untul UC shut down public z39.50 access after moving to worldcat
21:13 mtompset I just started browsing their site. I see now. Never knew of these guys.
21:14 mtompset mjk: probably had to in order to keep the licensing agreement conditions.
21:14 jcamins rangi: I think Elsevier had a lion or something like that. No Darth Vader. Though they could have.
21:14 rangi true
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21:15 mjk mtompset: i know. thus the people who set those licensing conditions are evil ;)
21:18 mtj mjk, you have the sympathy of many here
21:21 mtj one of the things i have never quite understood is the 'ownership' of a libraries bib/auth records?!
21:22 jcamins mtj: I shall summarize: "disputed."
21:22 mtj hmmm, yeah… :/
21:23 pianohacker #koha: Minimum perl version requirement, currently?
21:23 pianohacker Looking to use 5.14 features
21:23 mjk i don't get it either
21:23 mtj it sees to be a grey enuff subject that libraries wont share their records, in case they breach some vague copyright
21:24 rangi pianohacker: talk to gmcharlt about what he wants to set for 3.14
21:24 jcamins pianohacker: I think gmcharlt said something about upping the minimums for 3.14.
21:24 rangi its 5.10 in 3.12
21:24 mjk actually, i have just found a way to get MARC records as text. Can Koha import text files full of marc records?
21:24 pianohacker kk, thanks
21:25 gmcharlt pianohacker: which features do you have in mind?
21:25 jcamins mjk: nope. You need those records in iso8406 or MARCXML.
21:25 pianohacker gmcharlt: when as statement modifier, would make this admin script I'm writing quite clean. Can live without them
21:26 jcamins pianohacker: I thought when was removed?
21:27 pianohacker jcamins: not to my knowlege, don't see anything like that in the version history
21:28 jcamins I think eythian shared an article about that.
21:28 gmcharlt perldoc as of 5.16.2 still lists it as experimental
21:28 jcamins Oh, no, different new 5.14 feature.
21:28 jcamins I remember now.
21:28 mjk oh well. thanks for the hints
21:28 jcamins It was ~~
21:29 gmcharlt pianohacker: but for now, that's not enough -- need use case more compelling than that to abandon support for Debian oldstable
21:30 pianohacker gmcharlt: kk, makes sense
21:30 * pianohacker sadly puts the pretty syntax back in the box
21:30 * cait offers pianohacker the cookie jar
21:30 jcamins There has to be an elegant way to include N contacts related to the main object in a form .
21:31 gmcharlt pianohacker: ask again on May 5, 2014 ;)
21:31 pianohacker ooh, what happens then?
21:32 jcamins That was actually a question... does anyone know of an elegant way to do that?
21:32 gmcharlt pianohacker: that's roughly when security updates for squeeze would stop
21:33 pianohacker ahh, okay
21:33 pianohacker jcamins: In terms of UI or HTML form workings?
21:33 jcamins HTML form.
21:34 jcamins I can have multiple contact_name, etc., and split it up into multiple record from the lists, or I can have contact_name_1... and a contact_count, but...
21:34 jcamins One feels that there should be an accepted and elegant way to handle this.
21:35 pianohacker jcamins: The first is more common, especially in Koha, afaik
21:36 jcamins That'll do.
21:36 jcamins Thanks.
21:36 pianohacker jcamins: You could always do it the same way addbiblio does it ;)
21:36 pianohacker but that would require dipping your hands into that massive mess of a template
21:37 jcamins pianohacker: *ELEGANT*?!?!?!?
21:37 jcamins That is the first time I have ever heard of addbiblio being compared to anything like elegant. :P
21:37 pianohacker yeaaahhhhh
21:38 pianohacker the cataloging interface in general makes me sad
21:38 * jcamins too.
21:38 jcamins In fact, just thinking about it I am now sad.
21:38 * jcamins looks at the Biblionarrator editor, feels better.
21:38 pianohacker it does what it needs to, and it's gotten about twice as good as it was in the 2.2 days, but the code backing it is frightening
21:39 jcamins Very frightening, and it's not very usable.
21:40 gmcharlt and it's copied all over the place
22:12 rangi[…]h-giants-nsa-data  <-- and that is why drojf is right
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22:17 jcamins Okay, is there any way to retrieve CGI parameters as an array without creating an array variable for every single parameter?
22:19 wizzyrea what is drojf right about again?
22:21 rangi not using google calendar
22:21 eythian jcamins: it was also when/given I think
22:21 eythian also, hi
22:21 wizzyrea oh. well according to that you should probably just go completely offline all the time
22:22 wizzyrea and there's probably an argument to be made for that.
22:22 wizzyrea and it's probably what they want - to cut off intelligent people from talking.
22:22 rangi nope
22:22 pianohacker eythian: Mind I ask where you saw that?
22:22 rangi according to that you should use software you can audit, or that someone else can
22:22 jcamins Bah. I lost my alternative phone.
22:23 eythian[…]ch-and-given-when <-- pianohacker
22:23 pianohacker jcamins: If you run $input->param in array context it looks like it should give it to you
22:24 wizzyrea that only works if you trust the auditors.
22:24 jcamins pianohacker: yeah, my workaround was to just create a temporary array.
22:24 jcamins Kinda dumb, really.
22:24 jcamins But I don't see any way around it, so I'm telling myself that "dumb is smart enough if it works."
22:24 jcamins I can't seem to find any examples of us doing this elsewhere in Koha.
22:24 pianohacker jcamins: I _think_ you should be able to do it by asking for it in an arrayref constructor, or throwing it into anything that needs an array, like join or map or foreach
22:25 rangi wizzyrea: in that case, screw it, lets all just use proprietary software
22:25 jcamins pianohacker: how can I persuade it that it's an arrayref constructor?
22:25 pianohacker jcamins: [ $input->param( 'contact_name' ) ] should create an arrayref of all the values for contact_name
22:26 jcamins Cool!
22:26 jcamins Thanks.
22:26 pianohacker please, if another dev knows one way or another, please correct me :)
22:26 jcamins That's ever so much more elegant.
22:26 * jcamins tests.
22:26 jcamins Indeed you can.
22:26 jcamins Oh.
22:26 jcamins Hm.
22:27 jcamins That was a bad test.
22:27 * jcamins tests again.
22:27 pianohacker using proper scientific methods, I see ;)
22:27 wizzyrea oy, not what I'm saying - i'm saying that people who can't audit their own security either take the risk of spying, or don't use it at all, because how can you verify the trustworthiness of an external auditor?
22:27 wizzyrea how do you know for sure they're not in bed with the spies
22:28 jcamins Okay, that was a good test, I think, and it worked.
22:28 wizzyrea ^ that may sound overly paranoid.
22:28 rangi you dont just have one auditor, you have everyone
22:28 wizzyrea (she says ON THE INTERNET)
22:28 eythian wizzyrea: keep in mind it doesn't have to be all or nothing, it's a continuum.
22:29 eythian you can get it to the point where you feel comfortable, if that's getting 20 people you don't know to look over it, or just relying on the fact it's public and assuming that someone who cares has.
22:33 wizzyrea open is better, we agree about that. :)
22:33 eythian s/you don't know/who don't know each other/
22:33 eythian error between brain and keyboard...
22:36 pianohacker eythian: thanks for the article. from what I can tell, given/when should be safe to use as long as you're very unclever in their use
22:37 eythian well, if you also accept that you're going to get a warning from them.
22:37 pianohacker they themselves don't seem to be disappearing, just changing their details
22:37 pianohacker right
22:37 * eythian would like to get rid of the huge amount of runtime warnings that are currently in Koha as it is :)
22:37 eythian they hid real problems
22:37 eythian *hide
22:38 cait probably
22:46 * pianohacker decides to use it; by the time 5.18 is around, they'll have figured out what comes next
22:47 pianohacker and if it's just given/when with reduced functionality, yay
22:47 pianohacker s/around/in debian stable or testing/
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23:23 rangi i malign twitter a lot, but they did deal well with that icelandic member of parliament, and so far not cooperating with nsa
23:23 rangi[…]b04497_story.html
23:23 rangi wow
23:23 rangi NSA reporting increasingly relies on PRISM” as its leading source of raw material, accounting for nearly 1 in 7 intelligence reports.
23:24 rangi the dude or dudess who leaked this is super brave, specially after what happened to private manning
23:24 wizzyrea no kidding
23:27 jcamins Well, this is weird.
23:27 jcamins (screenshot coming)
23:28 jcamins
23:28 jcamins wtf is with that positioning?
23:29 jcamins Oh, I figured it out.
23:30 eythian wahanui: excuse
23:30 wahanui eythian: The server at (port 666) appears to be down.
23:30 eythian jcamins: there's your problem.
23:30 jcamins Of course!
23:31 jcamins Ugh.
23:31 jcamins YUI--
23:31 jcamins @karma
23:31 huginn` jcamins: Highest karma: "rangi" (826), "oleonard" (716), and "jcamins" (594).  Lowest karma: "<!" (-115), "failed" (-103), and "ie" (-92).  You (jcamins) are ranked 3 out of 2527.
23:32 jcamins @karma yui
23:32 huginn` jcamins: Karma for "yui" has been increased 0 times and decreased 10 times for a total karma of -10.
23:33 dcook Wow, oleonard is getting up there.
23:33 dcook I seem to remember last year that rangi was way further ahead
23:33 jcamins oleonard did a bunch of Bootstrapifying.
23:33 dcook That's true. Which is gorgeous!
23:33 jcamins Seriously, YUI *sucks*.
23:34 dcook It really really does
23:34 jcamins I can't believe this was ever considered "good technology."
23:34 dcook Although I think a few features break more with Bootstrap than they did with YUI when JS is turned off...
23:34 wizzyrea such as?
23:34 wizzyrea file bugs!
23:34 dcook Z39.50  searching
23:34 wizzyrea that's important file a bug
23:35 dcook That's a good point. Sometimes, I forget to file a bug when I'm not going to fix it myself. Silly, David.
23:35 jcamins Really? I didn't think the Z39.50 search ever worked without Javascript.
23:35 * dcook goes to make sure that he's not telling fibs
23:35 dcook Oh wait
23:35 dcook Well, Z39.50 searching in acquisitions does
23:35 dcook It would probably be better to go to a model like that
23:35 dcook Rather than using the pop-up window which won't work
23:35 jcamins Oh. I don't use that.
23:35 jcamins Yeah, that's a good point.
23:36 dcook Now that I think about it, YUI lets you get into the z39.50 interface that won't work. Bootstrap doesn't even let you get into the interface. So maybe the latter is better...for now.
23:36 cjh \o/ I didnt break the build
23:36 dcook Yay, cjh :D
23:36 jcamins I would like to have these boxes flow.
23:36 jcamins Does that really seem so unreasonable?
23:37 * jcamins does not think it is unreasonable, regardless how it seems.
23:37 dcook flow?
23:37 jcamins Yeah.
23:37 jcamins So that they will tile nicely, and when you resize the screen there will be more of them.
23:37 jcamins etc.
23:37 jcamins YUI has taken that dream, and stomped on it.
23:37 maximep left #koha
23:37 dcook I'm more of a visual sort of person, but sounds nice?
23:37 jcamins Brutally.
23:38 dcook Mmm. YUI really does need to get nixed.
23:38 jcamins Did you see my screenshot?
23:38 dcook Ish
23:38 * dcook goes back
23:38 jcamins Now imagine the second and third contacts not being randomly placed.
23:38 jcamins That's what I want.
23:38 dcook Ohhh...
23:38 dcook Oh.
23:38 dcook Fair enough.
23:39 jcamins I guess I could do some sort of complex loop that divides them into thirds.
23:39 jcamins Sorry, sets of two.
23:39 jcamins Not sets of three.
23:39 jcamins YUI would throw a fit.
23:40 pianohacker jcamins: Why not just have a yui-main like usual then have a bunch of inline-block elements inside that?
23:41 jcamins pianohacker: oh, that's what I'm going to do.
23:41 jcamins But isn't the point of having a CSS grid system that it should do this for me?
23:41 jcamins yui-u doesn't actually do anything useful that I can find.
23:42 jcamins It lets me divide a space into two columns.
23:42 jcamins But I can only have one thing in each column or it explodes.

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