IRC log for #koha, 2013-05-16

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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01:22 mtj wizzyrea , about?
01:24 wizzyrea wuddup
01:24 mtj we should swap the problematic mibbit link on the support page, for this one
01:25 mtj
01:25 wizzyrea yep
01:25 mtj fwiw, i just tried the mibbit link and got a banned error, too
01:26 mtj cool ^^
01:26 wizzyrea there is some kind of drama going on there
01:28 wizzyrea shouldn't need the mibbit greeter anymore :)
01:28 mtj ahem ;)
01:28 mtj oops, amen
01:28 wizzyrea can you detect when people are coming in from a particular domain?
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01:29 wizzyrea I suppose you could have it greet everybody that isn't on the IRC regulars list ;)
01:29 wizzyrea everybody who joins, that is
01:29 mtj hmm, looks like you can...
01:29 mtj test1_ has userhost and realname OFTC WebIRC Client
01:30 eythian wahanui: caps lock is CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL
01:30 wahanui OK, eythian.
01:31 mtj my secret reason for the mibbit greeter was to encourage people to choose a proper username
01:32 eythian I think it never worked
01:32 mtj it ws really a mibbit nagger
01:32 mtj yep
01:32 jcamins I never saw anyone change their nick.
01:32 eythian wahanui: caps lock is also <reply>bash: LS: command not found
01:32 wahanui okay, eythian.
01:33 dcook I may have seen o ne or two people change their nick, but that might be wishful thinking on my part
01:35 mtj i would be thrilled to say goodbye to both mibbit and the mibbit greeter :)
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01:36 cjh welcome bcak tcohen
01:36 cjh where bcak is back... close enough.
01:36 tcohen hi cjh
01:36 * wizzyrea saw people change their nick
01:36 tcohen just finished watching latest how  met your mother's episode
01:37 tcohen and passing by
01:37 trea caps lock
01:37 wahanui bash: LS: command not found
01:37 trea heh
01:38 mtj tho, in mibbit's defense - it may well be possible to turn off mibbit's auto-nick feature
01:39 wizzyrea yea I think it is
01:39 jcamins The problem was never with the mibbit service.
01:39 wizzyrea i think my reasoning was
01:39 wizzyrea to make it as easy as possible for people to just hop in here and talk
01:39 mtj …so, that may have been our fault, for leaving that on
01:40 mtj yeah, a fair call liz :)
01:40 jcamins I was never bothered by the nick.
01:40 jcamins The questions, on the other hand...
01:40 wizzyrea I figured, I think, that if they really intended to stay around, they'd choose a nick eventually
01:40 jcamins Not that all mibbiters asked painful questions, nor that non-mibbiters don't occasionally ask painful questions.
01:40 wizzyrea if it was a drive by mibbiting, oh well.
01:44 mtj i guess you cant stop people asking stupid questions…
01:44 mtj you can just hope to identify them better :)
01:55 wizzyrea anyway, that's fixed.
01:59 mtj wooo, thanks wizzyrea++
02:01 jcamins rangi: what's the best way to get old release notes, in your opinion?
02:01 rangi hm?
02:01 rangi pre when we were sticking them in the repo?
02:01 jcamins I think it would be helpful to have release notes for previous stable releases.
02:02 jcamins We have 3.0.* and then just the 3.x.0 release notes.
02:02 rangi they'll be in the mailing list archives
02:02 rangi someone could hunt them down and commit them
02:02 rangi would be good
02:03 jcamins Ah, let me clarify the question: I have two proposals for doing this, and I want to know which one is better.
02:03 rangi we must know some librarians who could do that :)
02:03 jcamins Option one: figure out git grep, retrieve all commits that touch misc/release_notes/*, cherry-pick to master.
02:03 rangi right
02:03 jcamins Option two: copy all newer release notes out of misc/release_notes on each branch, commit them en masse.
02:04 rangi option 3
02:04 rangi put them all in kohadocs repo
02:04 wizzyrea ^
02:04 jcamins Ooh.
02:04 jcamins I like that option better.
02:04 jcamins A lot better.
02:04 jcamins That is a nice option.
02:05 rangi yep, just as long as we dont get in the way of the manual
02:05 rangi but i think a release_notes dir
02:05 rangi would be fine
02:05 rangi then if ppl wanted they could do
02:05 rangi en/ fr/ es/
02:05 rangi etc
02:18 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Update 3.12 release notes for Koha 3.12.0-rc2 <[…]50cf4a9da00587017> / Language update for 3.12-RC <[…]a1338a5257d6f0fb7> / Merge branch 'bug_10030' into 3.14-master <[…]a6d044d0754950b55
02:19 jcamins Building RC2.
02:24 jenkins_koha Starting build #34 for job Koha_3.12.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
02:31 mtompset Have a good day. :)
03:02 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.12.x build #34: SUCCESS in 38 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]b/Koha_3.12.x/34/
03:02 jenkins_koha * D Ruth Bavousett: Language update for 3.12-RC
03:02 jenkins_koha * Kyle M Hall: Bug 10030 - MaxFines checks against amount, not amount outstanding
03:02 jenkins_koha * Marcel de Rooy: Bug 10030: QA Followup for trivial false warning detected while testing
03:02 jenkins_koha * Jared Camins-Esakov: Update 3.12 release notes for Koha 3.12.0-rc2
03:02 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10030 major, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Pushed to Master , MaxFines checks against amount, not amount outstanding
03:03 jenkins_koha Starting build #1175 for job Koha_master (previous build: STILL UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #1164 9 days 13 hr ago)
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03:16 eythian wahanui: welcome is <reply>Welcome to
03:16 wahanui OK, eythian.
03:16 * cjh keeps waiting
03:18 trea anything? anything at all?
03:18 eythian the only limitation is yourself, at
03:18 trea i knew it.
03:18 trea tv
03:18 trea tv?
03:18 trea bah
03:18 wizzyrea wahanui: tv?
03:18 wahanui no idea, wizzyrea
03:19 wizzyrea aw
03:19 eythian are you losing an argument with yourself?
03:19 wizzyrea yea.
03:19 wizzyrea clearly
03:19 trea could be
03:19 cjh if you are losing an argument with yourself, at least you are also winning.
03:20 * wizzyrea blinks at
03:20 cjh wizzyrea: it is worth the wait.
03:20 wizzyrea uhhuh
03:21 * ibeardslee waits
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04:16 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1175: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 13 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1175/
04:16 jenkins_koha * Kyle M Hall: Bug 10030 - MaxFines checks against amount, not amount outstanding
04:16 jenkins_koha * Marcel de Rooy: Bug 10030: QA Followup for trivial false warning detected while testing
04:16 jenkins_koha * D Ruth Bavousett: Language update for 3.12-RC
04:16 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10030 major, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Pushed to Master , MaxFines checks against amount, not amount outstanding
04:16 jenkins_koha * Jared Camins-Esakov: Update 3.12 release notes for Koha 3.12.0-rc2
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06:28 * magnuse waves
06:29 magnuse jcamins++ druthb++ for rc2
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06:42 reiveune hello
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06:42 marcelr hello #koha
06:43 magnuse bonjour!
06:43 magnuse @wunder boo
06:43 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 13.0°C (8:20 AM CEST on May 16, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 44%. Dew Point: 1.0°C. Pressure: 29.80 in 1009 hPa (Steady).
06:43 magnuse woohoo!
06:43 magnuse @wunder marseille
06:43 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Marseille, France is 13.0°C (8:30 AM CEST on May 16, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 29.42 in 996 hPa (Steady).
06:43 magnuse hah!
06:46 magnuse :-)
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06:53 christophe_c hello #koha
06:53 magnuse bonjour christophe_c
06:53 marcelr hi christophe_c
06:53 christophe_c bonjour magnuse ;-)
06:53 marcelr hi magnuse
06:54 christophe_c hello marcelr
06:54 magnuse hiya marcelr
07:05 rangi evening
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07:06 huginn GERMS!!!!
07:06 wahanui Germs originated in Germany, before rapidly spreading throughout the rest of the world.
07:07 kf wahanui botsnack cookie
07:07 wahanui thanks kf :)
07:12 magnuse hi rangi and kf
07:13 alex_a hello
07:13 wahanui hey, alex_a
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07:45 rangi
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09:01 * magnuse imagins that everyone on #koha followed rangi's link and is now bouncing around on youtube :-)
09:31 kf :)
09:42 magnuse @wunder boo
09:42 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 14.0°C (11:20 AM CEST on May 16, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 48%. Dew Point: 3.0°C. Pressure: 29.80 in 1009 hPa (Steady).
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10:56 jcamins What should I make for breakfast?
10:58 magnuse pizza!
10:59 jcamins Ummm...
10:59 jcamins probably not.
11:00 magnuse awww...
11:00 jcamins Myshkin has grabbed my sweater and pulled me down to nearly bent in half.
11:01 jcamins Apparently he really wants his ears scratched right now.
11:02 magnuse better prioritize that ocer breakfast then
11:07 kf_away croissant?
11:07 jcamins kf_away: yes, I'll just throw one together quickly... :P
11:12 * magnuse wishes there was a way to make real croissants quickly ;-)
11:12 magnuse or pain au chocolate
11:12 jcamins magnuse: me too! If there were, I could have one for breakfast!
11:12 jcamins Mmmm.
11:13 magnuse hm, is it really "pain"?
11:13 jcamins In more ways than one! :P
11:13 magnuse yup
11:13 * magnuse does not find pain au chocolate painful... ;-)
11:13 jcamins Not when eating.
11:13 magnuse oh the bakeries in marseille...
11:14 jcamins When making, on the other hand...
11:15 slef depends how many razor blades are put in it
11:16 slef jcamins: do you get Jus-Rol over there?
11:17 jcamins slef: I don't think so. Never heard of it.
11:17 jcamins It's based in Berwick-upon-Tweed!
11:17 slef yeah, but licensing spreads stuff everywhere
11:18 jcamins Sure, but I've visited Berwick-upon-Tweed. Exciting!
11:18 slef[…]aspx?ProductId=33
11:18 jcamins Heh. I'd never be able to convince myself to use that.
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11:19 slef I wouldn't bother with most of the pastry, but the pain au chocolate and the croissants are worth it, unless you like getting up earlier to do it properly.
11:19 jcamins Which I do not.
11:20 slef Is there any way to do the first steps of a dough overnight and then chill it? I've yet to find one that works well.
11:21 slef Anyway, I looked in because I'm trying to remember how to see if one string is in another in SQL :)
11:21 slef Not to discuss morning goods!
11:21 magnuse #koha - the food channel :-)
11:21 marcelr you have to eat :)
11:22 jcamins There is, so long as you want want to make an artisan-style bread. Folded pastries like croissants are more problematic, I think.
11:22 jcamins slef: LOCATE('York', 'New York')
11:22 slef arrrrrrrrrgh it has just reminded me I've forgotten to start the bread baking for lunch though :)  As soon as I've done this, I'll go sort that out
11:22 slef LOCATE!  Doesn't involve STR at all!
11:23 slef thanks jcamins
11:23 slef jcamins: now you see, I thought they were pastries, but Jus-Rol label it "Dough" :-/
11:26 jcamins Alas, I have no fruit.
11:30 slef @quote add <jcamins> Alas, I have no fruit.
11:30 huginn slef: The operation succeeded.  Quote #249 added.
11:30 * slef gets 0 lines from this report, goes to read the wiki again :-/
11:36 jcamins I do have blueberry jam, though.
11:54 * magnuse just got "artisan bread in 5 minutes a day" in the mail
11:54 jcamins :)
11:54 jcamins Maybe I should do that for tomorrow.
11:55 kf_away jcamins: did you see msaby's comment?
11:55 magnuse i'm a little worried that the next book by the same people is called *healthy* bread in 5 minutes a day... ;-)
11:55 jcamins kf_away: now I did.
11:57 jcamins magnuse: hehe.
11:57 jcamins That's referring to the "healthy" craze in the US, not the actual healthfulness of the bread.
11:57 magnuse hehe
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11:58 magnuse maybe they got hit by the low carb wave or something
12:00 slef Do we have an easy way to spot unused authority headings?
12:00 slef depends how many razor blades are put in it
12:01 magnuse isn't there a syspref that decides if unused headings are displayed or not?
12:01 magnuse must be some logic connected to that
12:01 * slef looks
12:01 slef OPACShowUnusedAuthorities
12:03 slef my @usedauths = grep { $_->{used} > 0 } @$results;
12:03 slef where...
12:03 slef my ( $results, $total, @fields ) = SearchAuthorities( \@marclist, \@and_or, \@excluding, \@operator, \@value, $startfrom * $resultsperpage, $resultsperpage, $authtypecode, $orderby );
12:03 slef so this is doable from perl
12:04 slef is uses the zebra index
12:05 slef which may be why trying to do it in a SQL report sucks... thank magnuse
12:05 * slef sends a "here's a perl script" reply
12:06 jcamins Yes.
12:07 jcamins That would definitely make doing it via SQL problematic.
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12:17 slef I love it when library catalogues contain stuff like this "Lovenheim, Peter. 2024, Portrait of a burger as a young calf :, c2002"
12:19 jcamins lol
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12:24 oleonard Hi #koha
12:25 slef hi Doctor oleonard!
12:25 kf_away what did we miss? :)
12:28 oleonard If I was given an honorary doctorate I must have missed the ceremony.
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12:32 tcohen morning #koha
12:36 tcohen jcamins: arond?
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12:36 tcohen s/o/ou/
12:36 jcamins I am.
12:37 tcohen as you noted in that koha-* bug, i didn't notice I changed the semantics of several koha-* commands
12:38 tcohen basically, I output to stderr that no instances where specified
12:38 tcohen i'd need to add a check or a redirection to devnull
12:38 tcohen in in a very specific script that is run on install
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13:02 slef oleonard: I was usggesting it was fake, like doctor Nick in the Simpsons
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13:03 * oleonard deflates
13:04 * kf_away feels for 27point7
13:04 kf_away can we help him somehow?
13:04 kf_away he is talking about bug 7593
13:04 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7593 major, P5 - low, ---, mathieu.saby, Pushed to Master , merging bib records loses connection to order line
13:05 jcamins I can't.
13:05 jcamins If you know data is missing you can post it on the bug.
13:05 kf_away no idea what jenkins has as data
13:06 jcamins All the sample data, and nothing else.
13:06 kf_away I think we should try and make this available somewhere at some pint
13:06 kf_away i think it has some items
13:06 kf_away and records, but not totally sure
13:06 jcamins Yes, all the sample data.
13:06 jcamins Including the bibliographic data.
13:07 kf_away there is no bibiographic official sample data
13:09 magnuse there are some records associated with tests
13:09 jcamins Last time I ran an install I was very surprised to be asked if I wanted to install bibliographic records.
13:09 magnuse huh?
13:10 jcamins In addition to the usual options, there was an option to install sample bib records.
13:10 jcamins I presume it was added during 3.10 and I wasn't paying attention, because I certainly didn't push it.
13:11 jcamins Anyway, anyone is welcome to document things however they like, so long as further questions are directed toward someone not me.
13:12 magnuse hehe
13:13 * magnuse can't see any sample records in installer/data/mysql/en/
13:13 kf_away jcamins: there is no such options
13:13 kf_away sorry to say that
13:13 jcamins Hm.
13:13 jcamins I wonder why I was offered one.
13:13 jcamins Must've been a patch I failed.
13:13 kf_away hm maybe only en?
13:14 jcamins If you want a copy of an out-of-date Jenkins database, it is available at for a few days more.
13:14 kf_away hm don't find any on master
13:15 * jcamins shrugs. Must've been something I was testing at some point.
13:16 jcamins Wow. Over a thousand patches in 3.12.
13:16 magnuse yay
13:17 jcamins Not counting merges.
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13:18 tcohen OMG
13:18 tcohen that's a lot of human labour!
13:19 kf_away it is :)
13:19 tcohen jcamins: do I remove the check or add one in koha-common.init?
13:19 kf_away koha is awesome :)
13:21 magnuse it is :-)
13:24 jcamins tcohen: it's up to you. I don't have a strong opinion either way.
13:25 tcohen ack jcamins
13:26 magnuse there are test records at least in t/db_dependent/www/data/ and t/db_dependent/Record/testrecords/
13:26 jcamins magnuse: yeah, but those are for unit tests.
13:26 magnuse the first one has one each for marc21 and unimarc, there are more in the second dir
13:27 jcamins I don't doubt that those are the ones on Jenkins, though I never looked at the second to see what they are.
13:27 jcamins I *do* doubt.
13:27 magnuse this was mostly in reply to kf saying "there is no bibiographic official sample data" :-)
13:27 jcamins I shouldn't have revised my statement from "I don't think" to "I doubt." It just results in confusion.
13:27 magnuse hehe
13:35 oleonard Hey, you know who's a string-safe patch that still needs signoff? Bug 9773 is a string-safe patch that still needs signoff!
13:35 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9773 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Replace YUI AJAX calls in cataloging plugins with jQuery
13:35 jcamins You know what other string-safe patches still could do with sign offs?
13:36 jcamins Bug 9452 and bug 10230.
13:36 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9452 blocker, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Needs Signoff , C4::Letters does not function under Plack
13:36 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10230 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Needs Signoff , Match points do not work with authorities
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13:49 gmcharlt @quote random
13:49 huginn gmcharlt: Quote #190: "<jcamins> Hehe. Guillotine: the revolutionary card game you win by getting a head <asaurat> lol <asaurat> I mean mdr" (added by slef at 03:46 PM, February 28, 2012)
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14:03 Viktor Having a sort of embarrassing problem - can't seem to get Kyles virtual appliance to work in Virtual box?
14:10 kf_away Viktor: sorry - have never used it
14:10 kf_away khall around?
14:10 khall what's up?
14:11 kf_away oh that worked fast :D
14:11 kf_away Viktor has a problem with the virtual appliance and I thought noone would know better than you :)
14:11 khall heh ; )
14:11 Viktor Wow :)
14:11 khall what's the issue? Is it a networking problem?
14:11 Viktor khall Yes. Did not get any IP address.
14:12 Viktor Tried some different networking settings in virtualbox
14:12 khall did you try the option in the Koha shell menu that's supposed to fix it?
14:12 khall it's an issue with Debian,
14:12 Viktor But can't seem to find the hotwos that I think used to be on your site back in 2009 or so :)
14:12 Viktor Yes I did.
14:13 Viktor Just
14:14 Viktor Just tried some random stuff from the webb but no real help there.
14:14 Viktor sudo sh -c ?cat /dev/null > /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules?
14:14 khall yeah, that's the one
14:14 Viktor Tried it and powered the machine off and booted. Still nothing :/
14:15 khall if you run '/sbin/ifconfig' do you see eth0?
14:16 Viktor Yes I do.
14:16 Viktor (and it's bridged to WiFi in virtualbox)
14:17 khall ok, that's good and bad. It means it's not a problem with the virtual appliance, but with your virtualbox configuration. That bad is that I probably can't help you any further.
14:17 khall Have you tried setting it to NAT instead?
14:17 jcamins Viktor: are you trying to access it from the same computer you're running VirtualBox on?
14:17 Viktor My college tried NAT yesterday on his computer and got an IP but no response when accessing it on the host computer.
14:18 khall that makes sense,
14:18 Viktor I tried NAT before executing the command stated above - nothing. Might be worth a new shot.
14:18 khall NAT will only let the VM access the outside world, not visa versa
14:18 Viktor Do you know anything on what issues I should research?
14:18 khall so, for that config, you need a NATed network interface, and a local network interface
14:19 Viktor I see.
14:19 khall that is, a Host-Only Adapter
14:20 jcamins You can also forward ports with NATed network interfaces, though I always use NAT + Host-Only Adapter.
14:20 khall so you will  have two virtual networking interfaces, one lets the VM access the outside world, and the other let's the host machine access the VM
14:21 Viktor Hm. Setting up stuff like that is a bit outside my area of expertise :)
14:22 jcamins Not for long! :D
14:22 Viktor Guess I'll fool around a bit further with the settings in VirtualBox.
14:22 Viktor jcamins :)
14:23 khall I understand. Just go into the VirtualBox network configuration, and enable adapter 1 as NAT, and adapter 2 as Host-only Adapter. Then boot it up and run /sbin/ifconfig. You should see eth0 and eth1
14:23 khall type the ip of eth1 into a web browser on your host machine and you should be good to go
14:24 Viktor Hm. Wont let me save that config "invalid settings detected"
14:25 Viktor If i disable all network interfaces it says "non-optimal settings detected" but won't help me identify what the non-optimal ones are.
14:26 Viktor Fresh install of VirtualBox on a new machine and the virtual appliance with no changes.
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14:34 jcamins Viktor: if you go through each tab, it will tell you what settings are invalid.
14:37 Viktor jcamins - I think so too. But I see nothing. Just the red ! at the bottom with "Non-optimal settings detected". Nothing lights up in any of the tabs and the text can't be clicked. Clicking the question mark produces the manual but no context.
14:38 tcohen jcamins: bug 10259
14:38 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10259 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Needs Signoff , koha-*-zebra scripts are expected to run without warnings if no instance name passed
14:38 jcamins Odd. On my system it will tell me "not enough RAM/duplicate MAC/etc."
14:38 jcamins tcohen: thanks!
14:40 Viktor jcamins - It's happier now with the non-optimal stuff since I pulled up the amount of video memory. But that shouldn't help with the networking I think...
14:41 jcamins Viktor: no, but it will make it stop complaining, anyway.
14:41 jcamins :)
14:41 Viktor Lol yeah :)
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14:45 tcohen @later tell rangi you forgot to mention tagging
14:45 huginn tcohen: The operation succeeded.
14:53 tcohen jcamins, do release maintainers need a gpg key?
14:53 jcamins tcohen: yes.
14:53 jcamins You have to sign your tags, tarballs, and potentially packages.
14:53 tcohen great
15:02 Viktor joined #koha
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15:03 pianohacker mornin'
15:03 * oleonard welcomes pianohacker back to the ole salt mines
15:04 Viktor Thanks for the help people! The best I managed was to get but not being able to connect to it. I'll fool around some more but have to run now.
15:06 kf_away morning pianohacker
15:06 kf_away hm wondering, does this column name still make sense with hourly loans? Fine grace period (day)
15:07 * druthb waves at kf_away, who is clearly kf_not_away
15:07 kf_away oh yeah
15:07 pianohacker hi druthb, kf
15:07 kf i was
15:07 druthb hi, pianohacker! :D
15:08 kf The 'Fine Grace Period' is the period of time an item can be overdue before you start charging fines.      Important: This can only be set for the Day unit, not in Hours  < so it probably is sitll right
15:08 jcamins kf: right, it's still days-only.
15:13 kf all libraries want to have different fines for each notice level :(
15:13 kf it's driving me crazy to tell them 'no you can't do that'
15:13 kf *sigh*
15:14 slef but they can... just tell them the estimated price of adding it... puts most libraries off "nah, it's not that important"
15:14 jcamins ^^ works every time
15:15 kf heh
15:18 reiveune bye
15:18 reiveune left #koha
15:18 oleonard That's why Koha doesn't have NCIP support (and we've never missed it)
15:27 christophe_c left #koha
15:28 Dyrcona kf: You could always migrate to Evergreen.... ;)
15:29 * oleonard stones Dyrcona for heresy
15:29 * druthb hands oleonard more rocks.
15:30 Dyrcona Help, help! I'm being repressed! :p
15:30 * Dyrcona gets in trouble in #evergreen for suggesting new people also look at Koha before deciding on an ILS.
15:30 * oleonard switches to smaller rocks
15:30 Dyrcona :)
15:32 kf oleonard: aren't smaller rocks meaner actually?
15:32 kf .)
15:32 oleonard Geez, everyone complained when I threw peanut M&Ms too. I can't win!
15:32 kf Dyrcona: I think my head can only store all the config options for one ILS
15:32 kf limited memory up there :)
15:33 oleonard Last week someone added a new system pref to Koha and it made me forget how to use a microwave.
15:33 kf lol
15:34 * kf does neither have a microwave nor a tv...
15:37 kf and now I am leaving :)
15:37 kf bye all
15:37 kf and Dyrcona++ for getting in trouble in #evergreen :)
15:37 kf left #koha
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18:07 oleonard Never do I hate Windows more than when I'm searching for a file.
19:03 huginn joined #koha
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19:08 tcohen best feed reader?
19:08 pianohacker feedly atm
19:08 oleonard The one that suits your needs and doesn't rely on Google Reader.
19:09 tcohen i need one i can tag feeds, like "this goes for 3.12"
19:09 pianohacker yeah, and the latter knocks out about half of them unfortunately
19:09 pianohacker tag feeds or posts?
19:09 pianohacker what do you use, oleonard
19:10 oleonard I think Tiny Tiny RSS is the best FOSS option at the moment
19:10 oleonard I've tried it, but it
19:10 oleonard was pretty clunky
19:10 * gmcharlt likes TT-RSS
19:10 gmcharlt and it's now getting some quick updates because of the attention
19:11 pianohacker tt-rss does sound like quality, though the hearsay is that the devs are a bit grouchy
19:11 oleonard I've been using Fever because I wanted something self-hosted, although it isn't free:
19:11 jcamins I like TT-RSS.
19:11 tcohen i want to set my rmaint toolbox
19:12 oleonard I also like Fever because there's a nice app for iOS which works well with it.
19:12 * oleonard is full of heresy today, Dyrcona should gather some stones.
19:12 mcooper joined #koha
19:13 * maximep likes what a colleague at work is doing
19:14 pianohacker iOS heresy?
19:14 oleonard non-free
19:15 * jcamins shakes his head dolefull. For shame for shame.
19:15 pianohacker okay. can't do much about non-free, but iOS use in this channel is punishable by snide comments about Swype
19:15 tcohen swype++
19:16 jcamins *dolefully
19:16 jcamins s/shame for/shame, for/
19:17 oleonard s/head/distinguished melon
19:22 rangi rss2email + procmail is what i use
19:23 rangi tcohen: you dont tag until you release, wasnt planning to cover that until its closer to time for you do a release
19:23 tcohen great rangi
19:24 jcamins That reminds me. I remembered in the middle of the night I forgot to push the tags for the RCs.
19:25 jcamins ... and I don't see them at all.
19:25 jcamins Hmm.
19:27 * jcamins creates new ones, pushes them.
19:32 tcohen rangi, you run r2e from a cronjob?
19:32 rangi yep
19:33 oleonard rangi: I submitted a couple of 3.10.x versions of patches that didn't apply, but I wasn't sure if they needed new signoffs. I recreated them from scratch so they don't have the original signoffs on them.
19:33 oleonard Was there a more correct way of handling that?
19:33 rangi thats the new rmaints problem :) or at least i wont be pushing them before the 3.10.6 release
19:34 rangi nope thats the right way
19:34 oleonard Should they get new signoffs?
19:35 rangi depends on how complex they are
19:35 rangi basically thats a judgement call from the rmaint
19:48 pianohacker Is Koha::Cache intended as a replacement for C4::Context->memcached?
19:48 lavamind joined #koha
19:48 lavamind hello
19:48 wahanui hi, lavamind
19:49 rangi !jenkins build koha_master now
19:49 jenkins_koha rangi: job koha_master build scheduled now
19:49 rangi pianohacker: yes
19:49 jenkins_koha Starting build #1176 for job Koha_master (previous build: STILL UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #1164 10 days ago)
19:50 lavamind I run about 150 Koha instances on a server for teaching (every student has an instance), but the zebra_rebuild processes weight heavily on the server, but now I just dicovered this :[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6566 (Checking if DB records are properly indexed)
19:50 huginn Bug 6566: enhancement, P3, ---, christophe.croullebois, Pushed to Master , Checking if DB records are properly indexed
19:50 lavamind can I use this script to re-index *only when needed* ?
19:51 rangi it should only index when needed anyway
19:51 rangi ie, it does incremental indexing
19:51 rangi you are using the debian packages right?
19:51 lavamind rangi: yes, and reindexing through a cronjob
19:51 tcohen lavamind: you need to use koha-index-daemon from Koha::Contrib::Tamil
19:51 pianohacker rangi: Okay. It seems like the only way to use the cache robustly is to use Koha::Cache->is_cache_active, but that depends on the CACHING_SYSTEM env variable being set, which is not mentioned anywhere outside of Koha/ Am I missing something?
19:52 jcamins pianohacker: you are not.
19:52 jcamins is_cache_active is my least-favorite part of the caching system.
19:52 jcamins And, for the record, not my idea.
19:52 pianohacker Has memcached been made de-facto-required?
19:52 jcamins Nope.
19:53 jcamins Completely optional.
19:53 tcohen because the process spawn for every call to rebuild_zebra will make the server load go high
19:53 tcohen memcached is not supported by the default install method (packages)
19:53 jcamins pianohacker: is_cache_active is used to check whether you should even try to use the cache.
19:53 pianohacker That's what I figured; which makes the choices kind of crappy
19:53 jcamins pianohacker: what are you trying to do?
19:53 pianohacker RightR
19:53 rangi lavamind: hmm you have your own cron job, not just using the one that comes set up wih the packages?
19:54 lavamind rangi, tcohen: I'm using the default cronjob : test -x /usr/sbin/koha-rebuild-zebra && koha-rebuild-zebra $(koha-list --enabled)
19:54 rangi tcohen: yes i use memcached with packages, you just edit config, same as with tarball
19:54 pianohacker sorry about that, irc had a hiccup
19:54 jcamins pianohacker: in that case, you might not have seen me ask what you were trying to do.
19:54 lavamind I had to set it to */15 instead of */5 because it was killing the server
19:54 pianohacker jcamins: caching of oauth token for a search API
19:55 jcamins pianohacker: ah-ha.
19:55 tcohen tarball install provides you a way of getting it work out-of-the-box
19:55 tcohen check bug 8773 lavamind
19:55 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8773 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Needs Signoff , Add per-instance koha-index-daemon in .deb setup
19:55 rangi lavamind: the problem is it has to connect to the db to check to see if it needs to index
19:56 pianohacker The choices seem to be either use context->memcached, which is the old way but won't break, or try to use Koha/ and be ready to catch an error with eval{} if ($@)
19:56 tcohen you might tweak the koha-common init script the same way those patches do
19:56 rangi tcohen: only for one single instance, otherwise its busted and 2 instances use the same cache namespace
19:56 jcamins pianohacker: don't use context->memcached.
19:56 tcohen and use koha-index-daemon
19:56 tcohen heh
19:56 tcohen I use the instance name as namespace
19:56 tcohen was for rangi)
19:56 rangi tcohen: for the tarball
19:57 rangi you said it can set it up
19:57 jcamins If you use that directly, you're ruling out any alternative caching systems.
19:57 rangi i say it does it wrong if you have 2 installs
19:57 tcohen rangi: the tarball asks for a namespaec
19:57 pianohacker jcamins: That's my understanding, so I'll just use a "try-catch"
19:57 lavamind tcohen: yes,  Koha::Contrib::Tamil sounds like exactly what I need
19:57 jcamins That's the best bet.
19:57 tcohen we have a pre-packages setup with 38 instances
19:58 tcohen we use koha_<instance> as namespace
19:58 tcohen and use koha-index-daemon for the reindexing
19:58 tcohen 10 sec interval
19:58 rangi how do you upgrade? 38 make upgrades?
19:59 tcohen before i got here (and moved everyone to git) we deployed stuff using SVN
19:59 tcohen right now we continue to do it like that
19:59 rangi eeeeeew
19:59 tcohen i do a standard install in /usr/share/koha_xxx
19:59 tcohen and put that on SVN
20:00 tcohen then the upgrade scripts fix every koha_xxx for the right instance name
20:00 lavamind I use a Puppet class over here
20:00 pianohacker Is it a horrible Perl practice to return undef from a constructor if things went pear-shaped? That would be a handy modification to Koha::Cache->new
20:00 rangi i use a apt-get update
20:00 rangi and apt-get install koha-common
20:00 rangi done :)
20:00 lavamind when I upgrade I ensure => absent all instance
20:00 tcohen we are moving to packages with 3.12
20:00 rangi cool
20:01 tcohen but, will be building our own until 8773 is included
20:01 rangi the problem with that is
20:01 tcohen (or something that replaces it of course)
20:01 kathryn joined #koha
20:01 rangi it makes koha dependent on moose
20:01 jcamins pianohacker: that's a good question. I don't see why.
20:01 jcamins I mean, I don't see why that's bad.
20:02 tcohen yes rangi, that's why that patch got the lines commented
20:02 rangi yep
20:03 rangi so what someone needs to do, is package Koha::Contrib::Tamil
20:03 rangi and all its dependencies
20:03 tcohen eythian did that already
20:03 rangi its not clean
20:03 rangi it fights with the moose needed for solr
20:04 tcohen oh c'mon, so we have moose already ? :-D
20:04 rangi no
20:04 rangi its an optional thing, just like this would have to be
20:04 rangi because moose while great for programming in
20:04 lavamind tcohen: I'm running 3.8.6, references to koha-*-indexer are absent from the initscript, can I just add them in ?
20:04 rangi is slow as hell
20:04 jcamins Not to mention, you need different versions.
20:05 rangi and that
20:05 tcohen of course lavamind, but make sure Puppet fixes stuff when you upgrade
20:05 lavamind un, I just apt-get installed libkoha-contrib-tamil-perl
20:05 rangi i wonder if we could do it with mouse
20:05 rangi maybe tchohen and I will fix that at hackfest :)
20:05 jcamins rangi: I liked mouse better than moose anyway.
20:05 lavamind tcohen: yep good call
20:05 rangi its a zillion times faster
20:06 jcamins That's why I liked it.
20:06 jcamins Other than that, they both seem to over-promise.
20:06 tcohen i have (the first) appointment with the US embassy @ Buenos Aires by May 28
20:06 rangi excellent
20:06 rangi yeah
20:07 rangi[…]1.2/lib/
20:07 rangi hehe
20:08 rangi but it would be nice to get that 8773 as a recommends, that conflicts with the solr stuff
20:09 pianohacker tcohen: Appointment with the US embassy?
20:09 rangi so if you wanted it it's there, but acknowledge the fact you cant use it an solr together .. currently
20:09 jcamins For a visa!
20:09 tcohen i had to pay for the visa and choose a date to go to buenos aires
20:10 tcohen its two consecutive days
20:10 tcohen (2 interviews)
20:10 pianohacker oh, cool. irritating that it's that much work though
20:11 tcohen i'll take a day to visit my family there, not big deal
20:11 rangi right now im really leaving :)
20:12 tcohen pianohacker: did I mention the two meetings in cordoba?
20:14 tcohen lavamind: how living with Puppet is?
20:15 tcohen is it difficult to deploy/maintain?
20:15 pianohacker tcohen: no, don't think so
20:16 tcohen our production guys are a bit reluctant to implement it
20:16 tcohen (at least they are trying openstack for our datacenter)
20:18 pianohacker jcamins: Come to think of it, the module isn't robust in general; the tied scalars/hashes require an existing $cache, which can't happen unless caching is enabled
20:19 jcamins pianohacker: error-checking is always welcome.
20:20 jcamins However, as far as I am aware, it works perfectly with caching disabled.
20:20 jcamins There is simply no caching.
20:21 jcamins I had hoped that some of the people who were pushing Plack would build on that to make Koha's codebase generally Plack-compatible, but in hindsight that was mostly just a time-consuming way for me to learn about variable tying.
20:21 lavamind tcohen: I couldn't do my job without Puppet, it's a life saver
20:22 pianohacker jcamins: really? I could be doing something wrong, but it seems like if Cache::Memcached::Fast is installed, new() will always try to load and use it, regardless of whether it's set up
20:23 lavamind tcohen: one thing I love about Puppet is that it's like documenting your setup at the same time
20:24 pianohacker constructing tied variables using Koha::Cache->create_scalar, per the original patch notes, fails with a "can't use string as ref" error
20:24 lavamind and no it wasn't difficult to set up, everything is packaged in Debian including backports
20:24 jcamins pianohacker: I can't say I particularly recall now, but it will not _use_ the cache unless caching is enabled.
20:24 jcamins Hm.
20:24 jcamins Guess a patch is needed, then.
20:24 lavamind tcohen: can I find the koha-*-indexer scripts somewhere other than the diff files ?
20:24 pianohacker okay, thanks. Just trying to figure out if I was misunderstanding, or whether there was a bug
20:25 pianohacker as it's the former more often than the latter some days :)
20:25 jcamins pianohacker: it could be either, but I'd suspect the latter. In the intervening months I have reviewed about 700 patches.
20:25 jcamins (so I simply don't remember)
20:25 tcohen lavamind: let me put them somewhere, i see the patch doesn't apply anymore
20:26 pianohacker Your name's in the author field, you're supposed to have a perfect memory of what it is and how it works
20:26 jcamins lol
20:28 jcamins Also, a point about Koha::Cache versus Koha::Cache::Object... the latter is mostly to simplify the painful job of making Plack + memcached not disastrous. There is no reason not to use Koha::Cache directly for cache access, if you're designing around the idea of caching from the start.
20:30 pianohacker makes sense
20:30 jcamins Indeed, using Koha::Cache directly is more efficient.
20:30 jcamins Tying variables is expensive.
20:30 jcamins It's just less expensive than a cron job that restart Plack every five minutes.
20:30 pianohacker hah! True that
20:31 pianohacker How does the koha-with-persistence work go, anyway? That was just starting when I left last time
20:31 jcamins And insignificant next to the amount of time it takes Apache to start.
20:31 tcohen lavamind:
20:31 tcohen[…]er-scripts.tar.gz
20:31 jcamins Koha's OPAC works mostly with Plack.
20:31 jcamins I run into problems with the staff client under Plack daily, or at least weekly.
20:32 pianohacker makes sense, much more complicated code
20:32 jcamins Unfortunately, we announced complete compatibility for 3.10.
20:32 pianohacker ... oh
20:33 tcohen can you get it lavamind ?
20:33 jcamins On the plus side, Plack on the staff client works way better than it used to.
20:34 lavamind tcohen: yes, thank you, I'm reviewing the scripts carefully :)
20:35 lavamind tcohen: our usernames have the format koha_username, is that a problem ?
20:36 lavamind actually nevermind, the system users are username-koha
20:36 tcohen are u using packages?
20:36 lavamind yes
20:36 tcohen ok ok
20:36 lavamind I was confusing the logins... it's been a while since I haven't touched the Koha stuff
20:36 lavamind since I have*
20:38 tcohen we could use this one instead of the moose-dependent code from tamil[…]ment.cgi?id=17790
20:38 lavamind oh boy, will this work ? it'll spawn 111 daemons :p
20:38 tcohen and build a new indexer daemon
20:38 tcohen it will lavamind
20:38 tcohen :-P
20:39 tcohen lavamind: you could try runnning that for one instance for testing?
20:39 lavamind yes, about to.
20:43 lavamind tcohen: 20130516 16:43:16 prof-koha-indexer: client (pid 3661) exited with 2 status
20:44 tcohen koha-indexer-daemon-output.log?
20:45 lavamind Can't locate C4/ in @INC .....
20:46 lavamind seems like deja-vu ...
20:47 tcohen if you prepend "export " to the KOHA_CONF definition?
20:47 tcohen (on koha-start-indexer)
20:47 tcohen bbl, sorry
21:00 jenkins_koha Yippie, build fixed!
21:00 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1176: FIXED in 1 hr 11 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1176/
21:15 JesseM_away left #koha
21:34 cait joined #koha
21:37 pianohacker maximep: caporss looks quite interesting; do you have any screenshots or anything similar?
21:39 laurence left #koha
21:40 rangi back
21:42 pianohacker augh, the issues-rules table has exploded in the past two years
21:43 wizzyrea heh yea
21:46 * pianohacker gets an itch to do crazy things to the admin interface again
21:47 cait pianohacker: sounds like an excellent idea to me :)
21:53 maximep pianohacker: I can ask him to add a few to github. It basically looks like greader, but with bootstrap
21:54 pianohacker maximep: That's pretty clear, actually
21:55 pianohacker greader with better color choice and border-radius, essentially?
21:56 maximep basically :p
21:56 pianohacker awesome :)
21:56 maximep he has 0 design/html/css skills, so really default bootstrap
22:04 pianohacker ^^ use case of bootstrap
22:04 pianohacker plus laziness/lack of time, but mainly that
22:17 eythian rangi, trea: you remembered it's whisky o'clock this evening?
22:17 * trea points to the bottle of balvenie behind him.
22:18 pianohacker ?
22:18 wizzyrea "dudes drinking whisky"
22:18 wizzyrea and possibly some chicks.
22:18 wizzyrea at a specified o'clock
22:19 pianohacker self-explanatory enough, then :) Any particular reason?
22:19 eythian because friday
22:19 trea because....reasons
22:20 pianohacker oh, right, international date line
22:20 pianohacker timezones--
22:20 cait timezones++
22:20 cait lol
22:20 cait timezones-- timezones--
22:20 cait i typoed
22:21 pianohacker My favorite timezones moment was trying to schedule something with people in the US, France and India
22:21 pianohacker and the cute little "optimum meeting scheduler" showed all three 8-hour workdays right next to each other, with absolutely no overlap
22:22 eythian wahanui: new zealand is <reply>[…]ng-in-new-zealand
22:22 wahanui OK, eythian.
22:22 pianohacker very much a "somebody's going to drink a lot of coffee that day" moment
22:25 pianohacker okay, what is going on in #24 and how is it legal
22:26 cjh "suits $20 not stolen" cant get much better.
22:26 rangi how else do you expect students to shift house pianohacker
22:26 cjh pianohacker: well it isnt overhanging the front of his vehicle...
22:26 pianohacker Is that a full-size refrigerator? Good lord
22:26 rangi it is
22:26 cjh although I am not sure about the visibility concerns.
22:27 rangi and a lawn mower on the roof
22:30 eythian nah, you'd be able to see out the driver's window
22:38 bag it's a baby zebra!!!
23:10 talljoy bre
23:10 talljoy oops.  my bad.
23:27 NateC joined #koha
23:37 rangi i didnt even know this existed
23:37 rangi[…]a3/duplicates.cgi
23:38 wizzyrea oooo
23:39 eythian oh nifty
23:41 * jcamins curses Time Warner.
23:41 jcamins They have found a new and creative way to drive me nuts.
23:42 jcamins They poisoned Google's DNS.
23:42 eythian oh?
23:42 jcamins Well, Google's records in their DNS.
23:42 wizzyrea O.O
23:42 jcamins The DNS records are actually valid, but about 1 in 10 connection attempts succeeds.
23:43 eythian change your DNS to another provider?
23:43 wahanui eythian: that doesn't look right
23:43 wahanui joined #koha
23:43 jcamins eythian: yep, did that.
23:43 eythian wahanui: sorry, but it is.
23:43 wahanui eythian: huh?
23:44 eythian jcamins: and are they still being weird?
23:44 jcamins It's better, though not perfect.
23:46 wizzyrea have you checked the twitterz for other reports of such nonsense
23:46 jcamins And as soon as I said that, it went screwy.
23:46 jcamins I have not. Good idea.
23:48 wizzyrea "turning off google DNS fixed my internet" from 5 hours ago
23:48 jcamins Yeah, I was noticing that.
23:48 jcamins So...
23:48 jcamins Google's DNS is at fault, and Time Warner is using it?
23:48 wizzyrea perhaps the problem has recurred.
23:48 jcamins Bahahahahaha!!!!!
23:48 jcamins Nah, it was a problem this morning, too.
23:51 jcamins (so I'm thinking it is not a reoccurrence so much as still going on)

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