IRC log for #koha, 2012-12-16

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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07:13 cait joined #koha
07:14 cait hi #koha
08:07 rangi hi cait
08:08 cait hi rangi
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13:08 jcamins_away drojf++
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14:07 drojf wow, cleaning bugzilla would take years
14:08 cait hm?
14:08 cait cleaning from?
14:09 cait have you seen the signed off is up to over 70 again? :(
14:09 * cait needs more tea to deal with this
14:10 drojf cleaning from "new" bugs dating back to 2009
14:19 liw possibly relevant: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/[…]s/2012/07/09.html
14:22 cait drojf: oh yeah
14:22 cait want to have a bug squashing party with me?
14:22 cait I only need to get a bit warmer first
14:22 cait hi liw :)
14:25 cait Then close as “won’t fix” everything left in the bug database. Don’t worry, the severe bugs will come back.
14:25 * cait cites
14:25 cait i think the time frames are a bit har here... so many different people involved
14:26 cait hard
14:26 * jcamins_away isn't really here, but has a question for liw about the Debian Perl project...
14:27 jcamins_away I'm thinking of packaging the QueryParser module used by Evergreen (and soon Koha too) for Debian, and trying to get it included.
14:27 * cait waves to jared
14:27 cait who is not really here
14:27 cait like drojf and druthb_away
14:27 jcamins_away Is that something someone like me, who doesn't have any reputation as an expert Debian developer, could reasonably do?
14:29 drojf cait: after doing a few bugs in the last hours i am getting closer to that "close as won't fix" attitude…
14:30 cait oh
14:30 cait go and have soome food
14:30 cait meet here in 30? ;)
14:30 jcamins_away I think closing old bugs as WONTFIX is a good idea.
14:31 jcamins_away It's easy to reopen or open new ones.
14:31 jcamins_away But we are so concerned about "not closing anyone else's bugs" in this project that our bug tracker is entirely worthless.
14:32 drojf cait: sorry, i am done for today
14:32 drojf it's not the most rewarding thing to do ;)
14:32 jcamins_away The last time I used bugzilla for anything was probably a year and a half ago.
14:33 jcamins_away (anything other than obtaining a bug number/moving a specific bug along status-wise)
14:33 drojf jcamins_away: when a search for "new" bugs shows "This result was limited to 500 bugs" something is definitely wrong
14:34 drojf 1614 bugs found.
14:34 jcamins_away Exactly.
14:34 * jcamins_away goes to find out which doorman is on duty.
14:34 wahanui i already had it that way, jcamins_away.
14:34 cait drojf: ouch!!
14:34 cait I guess ... you limited it to open bugs?
14:35 drojf Status:       NEW,       REOPENED,       ASSIGNED
14:37 cait *sigh*
14:37 cait drojf: one step at a time...
14:38 drojf anything from the old tracker is useless anyway. a lot is reported by dafork™-people or libraries that are not subscribed to the "new" bugzilla anyway. i vote for "close everything that rangi imported from the old tracker immediately"
14:39 drojf the few things that are still valid in koha 3-4 years later will be reported again at some point
14:40 drojf i think i had only two that are still valid of maybe 10 or how many i checked. and checking takes too much time. so screw them all
14:43 drojf i started because i thought it would be nice to get an overview and be able to marc bugs as duplicate. but it is impossible than anyone could know all these bugs
14:45 cait hm that's not true
14:45 cait about the old tracker
14:45 cait and try me about knowing the bugs ;)
14:46 cait sometimes we fix something as a side effect of another
14:46 cait so that's why some of the older bugs might be invalid now
14:46 cait I will check what you did :P
14:49 cait not really :)
14:51 drojf yes. that is the point. koha looks very different now from 2008. do we really want to re-evaluate all that old stuff on terms of koha 2012/13 to see if it is still valid?
14:53 drojf it would take at least one dedicated month's work to go through all the bugs
15:02 drojf http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]Cleaning_bugzilla
15:07 liw jcamins_away, you don't need to have any prior experience in Debian to help the Debian Perl modules packaging team make packages -- if you prepare the package, submit it for review (#debian-perl), and fix any issues, they'll have a Debian developer who'll do the upload for you, sometimes very quickly
15:07 liw jcamins_away, though right now Debian is in freeze, so it might take longer; also, new packages have be manually approvaed by the ftpmaster team, which can also take a few days
15:08 liw jcamins_away, so I say: go for it! and say hi from me to gergor herrimann
15:08 liw gregor, even
15:09 jcamins_away liw: thanks!
15:10 * jcamins_away leaves to spend the day with friends.
15:55 * druthb is about to pull some cookies out of the oven.  She'd make someone a great housewife...
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18:02 cait drojf: good work - you found some really weird bugs it seems :)
18:07 drojf cait: weird = 10 oldest bugs
18:07 drojf there will be 100 more
18:07 drojf or, 300
18:07 cait weird bugs?
18:07 cait probably
18:07 cait i think 3311 might still be vlaid
18:07 cait hm
18:07 cait maybe not
18:07 cait seems to work :)
18:08 cait cool
18:09 drojf i tried the wizard
18:09 cait yeah me too :)
18:09 cait works nicely now
18:09 drojf i suppose that module looked completely different when that bug was reported
18:09 cait maybe not completely differet, but hte radio buttons probably worked differently
18:10 drojf reported  2009-06-08. has there been a wizard at all back then?
18:10 cait yeah
18:10 cait they are old
18:10 drojf ah ok. somehow i thought that was more of a recent thing
18:10 drojf nevermind then
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18:22 rangi Morning
18:22 wahanui Morning is, like, a state of mind. or whenever the cat wants breakfast
18:23 cait morning rangi
18:23 drojf hey rangi
18:24 rangi Thanks for tidying up old bugs
18:25 cait drojf is cool :)
18:25 cait drojf++
18:26 drojf joined #koha
18:26 drojf meh. funny network
18:27 drojf rangi: http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]Cleaning_bugzilla not sure if the mailing list would be a better place for it
18:27 rangi Hmm I think meeting first then mailing list
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18:35 cait drojf: I think 3309 is a bug jared found recently
18:35 cait they renamed the column... to follow some new coding guideline and broke it
18:35 cait I bet
18:35 drojf yes i was about to patch that
18:35 drojf the column part
18:35 cait it jsut used to delete them and there is a warning on the page
18:35 cait I think there already is a bug...
18:35 cait was sometimes last week we noticed
18:36 drojf "about to" is maybe a little much. thinking about it and looking for the bug…
18:37 cait hm let me try and find it?
18:39 drojf that would be great :)
18:39 rangi @wunder nzwn
18:39 huginn rangi: The current temperature in Brooklyn, Wellington, New Zealand is 16.5°C (7:38 AM NZDT on December 17, 2012). Conditions: . Humidity: 57%. Dew Point: 8.0°C. Pressure: 30.18 in 1022 hPa (Steady).
18:40 cait @wunder Konstanz
18:40 huginn cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 5.1°C (7:35 PM CET on December 16, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 91%. Dew Point: 4.0°C. Windchill: 5.0°C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Steady).
18:41 drojf @wunder berlin, germany
18:41 huginn drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 5.2°C (7:12 PM CET on December 16, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 91%. Dew Point: 4.0°C. Windchill: 4.0°C. Pressure: 29.71 in 1006 hPa (Steady).
18:41 drojf ha! beat you by .1°C :P
18:42 cait hehe
18:42 drojf you win windchill though
18:43 cait hm I am checking
18:43 cait #koha logs next
18:44 cait and ping jcamins_away
18:45 cait drojf: I must have imagined it....
18:45 cait *wonders*
18:46 rangi Hehe
18:47 drojf hm. alternative to closing the old things: find a library to sponsor me and i try them one by one, starting at the latest change (like what i did today). i suppose checking everything <2011 takes about 50 hours
18:47 cait :)
18:47 drojf of course that is nothing a library would be interested in…
18:47 rangi That would be cool
18:47 cait maybe we need microfunding or how that is called for you
18:47 rangi I think that's where joining spi would be good
18:48 drojf spi?
18:48 rangi We could collect funding for stuff like that easy
18:48 rangi Software in the public interest
18:48 drojf ah
18:49 cait drojf: I am still quite sure jcamins_away talked about it - so maybe you want to wait until we make sure it's nto doubled up effort?
18:49 rangi It's what debian and postures and others belong to
18:49 rangi Postgres even
18:49 drojf cait: patching the db error is adding 'id_' in one line
18:49 cait right
18:49 rangi Association that has treasurers and bank accounts and not for profit status
18:50 rangi So can handle money etc
18:50 drojf rangi: yeah i read when that came up in koha discussions, just wasn't familiar with the acronym
18:50 drojf err, read about them
18:51 rangi Ah cool
18:51 rangi They are really hands off unless you want them to do something
18:52 rangi I've been an individual member for 2 years now
18:52 rangi My stop bbiab
18:54 drojf rangi: the associated projects list alone makes them very likeable. what is between us and spi?
18:54 drojf s/is/stands/
18:55 cait a community made decision
18:56 cait and you know how hard they can be to make
18:57 drojf i remember governance discussions on the list and bobs talk at kohacon. i don't see anything happening in between though. is there some kind of decision making process going on or is it just another thing that gets postponed whenever it comes up?
18:57 cait kind of
18:57 cait at least we got gpl3 now
18:58 drojf true. i am not around long enough to remember endless discussions of that before but it sounded like it was a big deal
18:59 slef mainly with a certain company that wanted to set up a puppet foundation...
18:59 slef anyway I'm not here, I'm working ;)
18:59 drojf a certain company that is not part of the community?
18:59 cait late slef
18:59 slef drojf: not any longer, indeed
18:59 drojf so let's get over with it :)
18:59 slef thing is spi is not a substitute for governancwe
19:00 slef we would still need some way to decide what we tell spi to do and/or who tells them that
19:00 drojf no i think that are two different things
19:00 drojf but i learned about spi in that discussion
19:00 slef spi is just a way to hold/traffic assets
19:00 drojf yes
19:00 slef although they'll also run elections if you want
19:01 drojf elections for us?
19:01 slef as they do for oftc I think
19:01 slef yeah
19:01 drojf i see. i think we do ok without that but its always nice to have options
19:02 slef but at the moment, in theory, HLT holds stuff for Koha in a sort of SPI-like laissez-faire way
19:02 slef not sure what's the status there
19:02 drojf i wonder what the trademark status is, too
19:02 slef stuff I'd like to fix but bleeeeah time
19:02 drojf in the HLT area
19:02 slef There Is No Trademark ;)
19:02 slef argh! blue pill! blue pill!
19:03 drojf lol
19:03 * slef returns to headbanging against overduerules
19:03 cait slef:i warned you
19:04 drojf slef: are you messing with the messaging thing a lot?
19:08 slef drojf: no, only overduerules
19:08 slef drojf: I'm staying out of C4::Letters so it should be forward-compatible
19:08 cait slef: but aren't thy about sending overdues? :)
19:08 cait ah
19:09 slef I'm in kohastructure.sql, updatedatabase.pl, overduerules.pl, overduerules.tt and overdue_notices.pl
19:10 drojf slef: i play with letters.pm for email encryption so please don't completely reorganise it ;)
19:10 slef like jcamins_away said, I'm leaving the UI alone for the basic enh
19:10 slef my enh enh messes it up
19:10 * slef goes to post this on bugzilla while he thinks of it
19:11 slef I love bugzilla quotes "<owen> I'm a crazed branch-creating maniac"
19:11 slef hmmm opinion please!
19:11 rangi back
19:11 slef Is this Architecture, internals and plumbing, or database?
19:12 cait what exactly are you doing?
19:12 slef restructuring the overduerules table to allow future (like 2 hours) extension
19:13 cait hm
19:13 cait architecture should be ok then I guess
19:13 rangi that
19:13 rangi or patrons
19:15 cait there is also one for notices I think
19:16 drojf i'm leaving for tonight, but i leave you with the threat of putting more things on the irc agenda, like discussions opf things like spi and governance. not sure when i take the time to look up the old stuff and write about it but expect me to be bored under the christmas tree at some point :P
19:16 cait lol
19:16 cait hope you show up again before christmas :)
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19:17 slef WE ALWAYS PUT A BOARD UNDER THE CRHISTMAS TREE TOO!!!1!
19:17 cait good morning kathryn
19:17 kathryn hi cait! :)
19:18 slef hmmm there's Overdues.pm I'd not spotted
19:18 * slef checks it
19:19 slef Bug 9296 has been added to the database
19:19 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9296 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, mjr, ASSIGNED , overduerules table needs restructuring to allow future extension
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19:24 slef my $query = qq|SELECT debarred$notify_level FROM overduerules WHERE categorycode=?|;
19:24 * slef cries
19:24 cait interesting
19:24 wahanui interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
19:24 cait isn't notify_level dead code?
19:25 slef no, it's a parameter to the function
19:25 cait hm we got a new dependency
19:25 cait ?
19:25 cait Can't locate String/Random.pm in
19:26 cait hm self registration probably
19:26 slef cait: it's interpolating an arbitrary (as far as the module author knows) variable into SQL... that's how to help a injection security vulnerability occur
19:26 cait apart from that slef i think you should check if the notify_level is still used in the db/code
19:27 slef it'll be 1, 2 or 3
19:27 slef but my rewrite will kill it
19:27 rangi cait: yep it is self registration
19:27 slef as it's Evil, Bad and Wrong
19:27 cait slef: I am curious about this
19:28 slef cait: it's $notify_level, in C4/Overdues.pm
19:28 cait we gotnotify level in someplaces in the ui - but it's always empty
19:28 slef although I am working on 3.8.x at the moment for this client
19:28 slef but maybe it's gone from master
19:28 cait since... forever
19:28 cait and you are really sure?
19:29 slef cait: sounds like a hangover... it's in the code, as 1 2 3... but maybe it's gone from the UI
19:29 slef cait: and the pl scripts are generating it and ignoring the UI... so no injection security vulnerability this time, just now
19:29 cait slef: does your 3.8 have soemthing in table notifys?
19:29 slef cait: look in Overdues.pm for yourself
19:29 cait slef: I know it's there
19:29 cait but I looked at it quite some time ago and found it to be dead
19:29 slef cait: no, but that's using overduerules table
19:30 slef cait: ah maybe nothing calls that function. I'd not noticed it before. Maybe half-finished rewrite of overdue_notices.pl?
19:30 cait no I think it's much older
19:30 * slef searches
19:31 slef cait: it's only used internally in Overdues.pm and by KohaTest. Phew.
19:31 cait ah
19:32 slef cait: you know, we really should find some developers who know this code. ;-)
19:32 cait don't look at me
19:32 cait it predates my koha involvement
19:32 cait a lot
19:32 slef not mine
19:32 slef doesn't mean I remember it ;)
19:33 slef I think 10 years in 10 minutes sums up the futility of trying to understand it all
19:33 slef like bees in a hive
19:33 cait I like being a little bee in the swarm :)
19:36 slef I just like being a little B
19:36 * slef wonders how many 2L English-speakers will get that
19:37 slef cait: S says hello
19:37 * cait waves back to S
19:38 slef S brandishes a knife at you... I think it was a wave, but she's cooking
19:38 cait lol
19:38 cait ok :)
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19:42 cait if you get told off you probably deserve it ;)
19:42 * cait sides with S
19:48 cait hm ok
19:48 cait I got a question
19:49 * wizzyrea waves
19:49 cait Yes, Check Out (Y) - shouldn#t something happen when I press Y?
19:49 cait hi wizzyrea :)
19:49 cait and yes, it's wrong capitalization
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19:53 slef I think so... if not, might be a javascript fu
19:53 drojf shen is the newsletter stuff due? 20th?
19:53 slef wizzyrea: S waves to you
19:53 drojf s/shen/when/
19:53 slef drojf: RTFEmail
19:53 drojf meh
19:53 slef but yes, I think this month's deadline is earlier
19:54 drojf slef: you get your FEmail when i manage to write for that :P
19:54 slef Koha - developed with Gin!
19:54 slef I'm working from the bar in the ktichen this evning
19:54 slef you might want to check the resultant patches more closely than usual
19:54 drojf was hoping to get more feedback but i suppose i have to deal with 3 (!) people answering a short survey after a free workshop
19:54 slef drojf: out of?
19:55 slef also, "what's in it for them?"
19:55 slef and have you mailed them 5 times yet? ;-)
19:56 drojf slef: no, but i will put the download link for the script in the "post-limesurvey-url" the next time
19:57 slef heheh
19:57 slef drojf: try guilt-tripping them. Suggest if you don't get feedback, there might be no future workshops
19:58 cait drojf: or mail them all and ask for personal feedback
19:58 slef drojf: doh!
20:06 * cait nods
20:06 cait are you really surprised?
20:07 drojf no, i'm not
20:07 drojf and i did that just for fun
20:09 rangi that reminds me, i should do a 2012 round up blog post
20:10 cait peppercorn contracts?
20:10 slef cait: like 1p/year
20:10 cait and yes, you should, rangi
20:10 cait we love your blog posts
20:10 cait slef: just to make a point? :)
20:11 slef cait: wikipedia probably knows "peppercorn rent" if you want more.
20:11 cait sounds totally reasonable
20:11 slef cait: just so they realise it's not infinite
20:11 cait yeah
20:11 slef used to be a peppercorn cost a fraction of a penny
20:11 cait ah
20:11 slef but the law still respected it as consideration, so there's still a valid contract
20:12 cait in my experience customers that actually pay are nicer and less demanding than those that get your services for free
20:12 cait it's werid
20:12 slef price psychology is very strange
20:12 rangi 81 developers committed stuff to koha this year
20:12 rangi 30 of them for the first time
20:12 cait hm
20:12 rangi thats a pretty sweet stat
20:13 cait what's wrong here? (a little riddle)
20:13 cait name;surname;address1;address2;zipcode;​city;country;email;itemcount;itemsinfo
20:13 cait Henry;Acevedo;"c/o Somewhere";"4345 Library Rd.";44224;"Springfield, MA";Germany
20:13 cait oh, now i get it, it only uses "" when it's more than one word
20:13 rangi yep
20:13 cait so maybe nothing is wrong. :)
20:13 slef bbl
20:13 cait why do I only find out after asking the stupid question?
20:14 slef cait: there are not stupid questions
20:14 slef *no
20:14 cait thx slef
20:14 slef cait: thx Einstein IIRC
20:16 drojf library degrees? you mean MARC studies? :P
20:17 cait hehe
20:17 cait @quote random
20:17 huginn cait: Quote #219: "You can't hit a perl module in the face. You can only hit it in its package!" (added by wizzyrea at 03:03 PM, October 10, 2012)
20:17 cait rofl
20:18 drojf lol
20:18 wizzyrea that's a great one.
20:18 drojf i know who said that. to whom
20:18 wizzyrea someone who didn't want me to put their name on it
20:18 drojf but s/he wanted to remain private :P
20:18 * wizzyrea doesn't remember who it was
20:18 cait do i really have to look in the logs and lose qa time?
20:18 drojf i do
20:18 cait or is someone going to tell me
20:18 drojf because it was said to me
20:19 drojf btw, is 'french kohacon' really called that? or is that just a generic name for non-frenchies?
20:20 rangi i think generic for non frenchies
20:21 cait i think it's called symposium
20:21 rangi hmm there are still 14 days of 2012 left
20:21 cait or similar, I don't speak french
20:21 rangi too early for my post?
20:21 cait rangi: hm, don't think so, you could wait if you want, but we are curious
20:21 cait well I am. :)
20:21 rangi :) ill do it today and can update if it changes much
20:23 cait :)
20:24 cait drojf: http://symposium.koha-fr.org/
20:24 drojf thanks :) so he whole conference is done in french=
20:24 drojf ?
20:25 cait looks like it
20:25 cait :)
20:25 drojf haven't seen a call for papers for that. not that i could read it
20:25 cait hehe
20:25 cait paul told me that it will be in limoges this year
20:25 cait but there seem to be no dates yet
20:25 cait so maybe no cfp
20:27 drojf i see a fixed program for 2012, so i assume somebody should have called for papers
20:27 drojf or isn't that customary in france?
20:27 drojf « Install-Party » Koha.   9h30-12h30. Animation par Guillaume Hatt. -
20:28 drojf if that is going to be anything like ours, they will spend the whole day :P
20:28 cait 2012?
20:28 wahanui well, 2012 is the International Year of Co-operatives http://www.2012.coop/
20:28 drojf http://symposium.koha-fr.org/?page_id=500
20:28 cait they did maybe...
20:28 drojf pardon my french but Programme du Symposium Koha 2012
20:29 cait past
20:30 drojf oh, right, that year is almost done. i should start counting
20:30 * drojf hides
20:32 * cait sends cookies
20:32 drojf cookies!! :)
21:03 cait yay
21:03 * cait goes reading
21:32 eythian hi
21:33 wizzyrea whaddup
21:33 eythian wizzyrea: you have matresses
21:33 eythian well, at least one
21:33 wizzyrea YAY
21:33 wizzyrea :)
21:33 wizzyrea did they impede your getting out?
21:36 eythian No, just saw them as I was heading out, after one of them came up and asked if I was your place.
21:36 eythian (which also happened on Saturday or Sunday or whatever day it was :)
21:36 eythian they seem to just keep on going up the stairs :)
21:37 cait eythian: so you have moved in with the rea's now?
21:37 cait :)
21:37 eythian No, different house
21:38 eythian I'm just further up the hill.
21:38 cait I know :)
21:39 wizzyrea lol. no, get off at the first stop!
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