IRC log for #koha, 2012-03-17

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:03 melia left #koha
01:09 jcamins_away Woohoo!
01:09 jcamins_away eythian++
01:18 eythian jcamins_away: the working copy had 5 patches, I think the patch I sent only had 3 of those, the last two were fixups (and adding the actual auth check in)
01:18 jcamins_away Ah.
01:18 jcamins_away Thanks.
01:18 eythian well I would, but my terminal seems to have locked up.
01:20 jcamins_away Kill bash, restart it?
01:27 jcamins_away This is... weird.
01:36 eythian it wasn't bash, it was xfce4-terminal
01:36 eythian jcamins_away: can you resolve
01:37 jcamins_away Yup.
01:41 eythian joined #koha
01:41 eythian and my network (on the local computer) went a bit crazy. I think this hardware might be getting unhappy.
01:41 jcamins_away Uh-oh.
01:41 jcamins_away Time for a new computer?
01:45 jcamins_away Time for bed for me.
01:45 jcamins_away I'll try to sign off on the PKI patch over the weekend if you post a new one.
01:49 eythian joined #koha
01:50 eythian_ joined #koha
01:51 eythian_ ah, I had openvpn running, and it was providing a false route
01:54 eythian k'know, if ever there was a candidate for a file-wide perltidy, I think is it.
06:51 cait joined #koha
06:54 cait hi #koha
07:06 Oak joined #koha
07:06 Oak kia ora #koha
07:06 Oak Hello cait
07:07 cait hi Oak :)
07:07 Oak :)
07:12 Oak Library I am going to automate for my MLIS project, with Koha, has around ~3K books on Management Sciences, no classification scheme used, just put in shelves like, Accounting books in one place, Business Comm. books in one place and so on. There is no record in any electronic form, like in an Excel sheet or anything. There is just one register which has serial no, book title, author name, vendor name and price. That's it. Question: how do I proceed? Do I first
07:12 Oak collect all data (title, author name, edition, publisher, place of publication, ISBN No, DDC no, etc) and put it in Excel sheet and then start feeding in Koha, copy pasting data from Excel (or importing if possible, I need to learn that, never done it). OR do I jump straight in... start picking books and just entering in Koha?
07:21 cait reading
07:22 cait I think I would skip using an excel list
07:22 cait and do it from the books
07:22 cait can you work in the library?
07:22 Oak yup.
07:23 Oak all day.
07:23 cait ah
07:23 cait I think that will be not that hard then
07:23 cait do you have a barcode reader perhaps?
07:23 Oak 9:00 am to 8:00 pm and two guys for my help, but they are not library professionals
07:23 Oak nope
07:24 cait ah, I think you will be fine
07:24 cait how many computers?
07:24 Oak 4 computers, for patron use
07:24 cait ah, so your helpers could even help with cataloguing
07:24 Oak yes
07:25 cait I think you will be fine )
07:25 cait :)
07:25 cait I think you might give items a thought
07:25 cait before starting
07:25 cait like if you want to use collections
07:25 cait or locations
07:25 cait so you can make them put those in when cataloguing the books
07:25 cait like all accounting books get a collection accounting
07:26 cait do you want to add a classification scheme or keep them as is? I mean is printing labels part of the project?
07:26 Oak yes! please tell things like that as I have not done this before
07:26 cait look at the item fields
07:26 cait and think how you want to organize it
07:26 Oak it's not part of the project... but should I do it? how much time it may consume?
07:26 cait are there different locations in the library?
07:27 Oak locations?
07:27 cait are there collections people might want to search for or that would make it easier to find a book?
07:27 cait hm yes
07:27 cait that can be pretty mucn everything
07:27 cait like the room
07:27 cait or a special place in the library, like the shelf for  new books
07:27 Oak it's just a big room, with tables in the middle
07:28 Oak i mean reading desks for users
07:28 cait ah ok
07:28 cait so do you want to use callnumbers for the books?
07:28 cait I mean print some and label them?
07:28 cait it#s good to think about this things I think before starting to enter data
07:28 Oak should I be doing that? I want to finish in 2 months.
07:29 cait so you can do as much as possible with each book while you have it in your hands
07:29 cait you could do it in steps
07:29 cait start with cataloging and add simple item records
07:29 cait oh
07:29 cait barcodes
07:29 wahanui barcodes are all in weird places
07:29 cait pssht wahanui
07:29 cait will the books be checked out later?
07:29 Oak yes.
07:30 cait do they have barcodes already?
07:30 Oak no
07:30 cait hm
07:30 cait can you buy preprinted barcodes?
07:30 cait or print them yourself?
07:30 Oak i can print them myself
07:30 cait I thnk when cataloguing the books, you chould give them a barcode
07:30 cait if you catalog first and do the barcodes later it's double work
07:31 cait because oyu have to get every book again... search for the right record... and so on
07:31 cait better to do in one step
07:32 Oak okay, so I should work in a sequence, and that sequence (in general terms) should be:
07:34 Oak 1: decide whether use collections or locations
07:34 cait or both :) whatever makes sense
07:34 Oak 2: decide will I be printing spine labels or not
07:35 cait yep, but I think you could do that later - if you are worried about time
07:35 Oak yes :) the director said if this goes well, he would to automate another library in the university and link the two collections...
07:35 cait :)
07:36 Oak i *am* worried about time as I am doing it for the first time. everything for the first time.
07:36 Oak only read stuff in books, never worked in a library
07:36 cait 3. catalog the records, add items with barcodes
07:36 Oak yes. okay.
07:36 cait we have to do lots of internships here
07:36 cait while we are studying
07:36 cait I was at 3 libaries, 2x 6 weeks and 1x half a year
07:36 Oak I wish I had done one
07:36 cait it's mandatory
07:37 Oak hmm.
07:37 cait but training to be a librarian here is different - I don't have an MLIS but more something like a bachelor
07:38 cait 3.5 years - longer than a master degree
07:38 Oak :)
07:39 Oak okay, so when cataloging the records, any logical steps to do a book?
07:39 cait hm?
07:40 cait I think search for isbn, if that does not work, try the title and authors
07:40 cait put aside books you don't find at all and catalog them later, when the easy stuff is done
07:40 Oak okay
07:40 cait and make sure you put a barcode label in each book and catalog an item fo rit
07:40 mbalmer joined #koha
07:41 cait so you can find easily later, which books have been cataloged - they will have a barcode label and scanning it into koha will find the right record
07:41 mbalmer g'morning
07:41 cait or typing it into koha in that case
07:41 mle :)
07:41 cait hi mbalmer
07:41 cait hi mle :)
07:41 cait scotland! yay! :)
07:41 mle hey cait
07:41 Oak cool, got it
07:42 cait Oak: hope I am not talking total nonsense :)
07:43 Oak :) what are you talking about cait? you help me a lot always.
07:43 cait aaw
07:43 Oak true story.
07:44 cait I hope your project goes so well... that you will start automating libraries with koha all over the country ;)
07:44 Oak oh bless you. have some cookies.
07:44 cait yum
07:44 cait but perhaps should get hotel breakfast first
07:44 * Oak offers cait a another basket of freshly baked cookies
07:44 Oak traveling?
07:45 cait a basket? I am lost...
07:45 cait yep, see your pm ;)
07:45 cait I am doing a distance study, had one exam yesterday and today it's presentations
07:45 cait and then going back home, getting my suitcase and going to marseille for the hackfest
07:49 Oak cooool. have fun then.
07:50 mbalmer Am I overseeing sth or does the SIP2 standard not define which fields may occur more than once?
08:00 cait mbalmer: no idea
08:02 mbalmer seems they say it implicitely:  .. must be sent for each ...
08:04 cait ok, time to go
08:04 cait bye all
08:04 cait left #koha
08:38 Oak wizzyrea?
08:38 wahanui I LIKE SCIENCE
08:49 mle .. it works (bitches)
08:49 mle
08:51 jcamins_away Woohoo!
08:51 jcamins_away eythian++
08:52 Oak eythian++
09:54 cait-m joined #koha
09:54 * jcamins_away waves to cait-m.
09:56 cait-m :-)
09:56 Oak hello cait-m :)
09:56 Oak uh electricity will go in few minutes
09:56 Oak so...
09:57 jcamins_away Bye. :)
09:57 Oak later... :)
11:49 kmkale joined #koha
11:58 jcamins_away kmkale: if you have any bug reports in Bugzilla where the patch has been pushed and the issue fixed, you should close them. :)
11:58 jcamins_away And good morning.
11:58 kmkale hey jcamins_away
11:58 wahanui somebody said jcamins_away was probably not here, but you don't have to take my word for it!
12:32 cait-m joined #koha
12:37 Oak joined #koha
12:52 mbalmer trying to build a selfcheckout with an IBM Anyplace Kiosk (
12:52 mbalmer problem is to get the serial input from the scanner as keyboard input into X.  It will need a specific X input driver.
12:53 Oak kia ora #koha
12:54 Oak hello cait-m :)
12:57 cait-m hry Oak
12:57 cait-m hey
12:57 Oak :)
13:05 NateC joined #koha
13:27 libsysguy joined #koha
13:30 libsysguy bug 5549
13:30 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5549 enhancement, P1 - high, ---, tdavis, Signed Off , Hourly Loans
13:35 * libsysguy was really excited this morning when I  got an email about hourly pushed to master...
13:36 libsysguy then I saw jcamins_away's email
13:36 cait-m joined #koha
13:37 jcamins_away lol
13:37 jcamins_away I sent it for you. :)
13:38 libsysguy yeah I woke up in a state of euphoria
13:38 libsysguy only to be killed when I went to bugzilla
14:10 NateC joined #koha
14:32 cait-m joined #koha
14:57 libsysguy joined #koha
15:05 cait-m joined #koha
15:37 cait joined #koha
16:02 cait joined #koha
16:03 jcamins_away cait++
16:03 cait only following a good example :)
16:03 cait jcamins++
16:03 jcamins Isn't it nice to have things cleaner? :)
16:03 cait yep it totally is
16:03 cait and  it's something I can do from the trian
16:04 cait at least until I start feeling nauseous
16:20 mbalmer already en route to marseille, cait?
16:20 cait nope
16:20 cait doing a detour
16:20 cait back from dortmund to konstnaz to pick up my things
16:21 jcamins_away Bug 7700
16:21 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7700 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, katrin.fischer, Passed QA , Cart's more details view shows identity numbers
16:21 cait will leave to marseille tomorrow morning
16:23 mbalmer ah, I see.  I will only arrive on monday evening.
16:25 cait sunday afternoon (I hope)
16:27 NateC joined #koha
16:46 cait joined #koha
16:46 cait t
16:47 jcamins_away u
16:50 cait :)
17:00 cait uh
17:00 cait 1319 open bugs and enhancements
17:00 cait wouldn't it be great to get that down... to 999?
17:00 cait in the bug squashing week?
17:01 cait hm
17:01 cait perhaps we should move bug 7619 to in discussion?
17:01 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7619 blocker, P2, ---, paul.poulain, ASSIGNED , 3M self checkout don't work in France
17:01 cait it seems a step backwards to me
17:05 seneca joined #koha
17:05 * magnus_afk waves
17:06 * cait waves back
17:07 seneca does the wave
17:08 seneca I'm finally here without a problem... just to hopefully help someone else;)
17:08 cait magnus_afk: I was just saying it would be nice to push the total bug/enh number from over 1300 to less than 1000 next week ;)
17:08 cait seneca:  :)
17:10 magnus_afk cait: sure - but is it doable?
17:10 magnus_afk fix 300 bugs in a week?
17:10 cait not sure :)
17:10 cait but shoulnd't we always reach for the stars? :)
17:11 magnus_afk yeah!
17:11 magnus_afk the sky is the limit!
17:11 cait and a lot of bugs that only need to be retested and closed in that list
17:11 cait like jcamins pointed out earlier today
17:11 magnus_afk how did you find that number?
17:11 cait so if we could get rid of those 700 alone... we would reach the goal
17:11 cait I have a saved search you can use
17:11 cait ALL by prio
17:11 magnus_afk ah, yeah if they can just be closed we might cover some ground
17:12 magnus_afk ahm got it
17:12 magnus_afk s/ahm/ah/
17:13 magnus_afk maybe we should promote that as an activity for gbsw
17:13 cait :)
17:13 cait yep
17:13 cait I think jared already did a little
17:13 magnus_afk it's something people can do with just a current master
17:13 cait now we only have to remind people this week
17:13 magnus_afk yeah
17:14 cait yep
17:14 cait or a current stable
17:14 cait tunnels--
17:15 magnus_afk hehe
17:15 magnus_afk yeah, that too
17:19 magnus_afk mbbl
17:20 cait so, 1319 is my personal starting point ;)
17:37 libsysguy joined #koha
17:38 jcamins moving--
17:54 liw joined #koha
18:19 rangi morning
18:19 jcamins Morning.
18:19 wahanui morning is a state of mind.
18:19 jcamins How's Sunday looking?
18:19 seneca and a state of geography ;)
18:22 rangi so far not bad
18:22 rangi @wunder nzwn
18:22 huginn rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 16.0°C (7:00 AM NZDT on March 18, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 30.18 in 1022 hPa (Falling).
18:45 rangi hmm i wonder if a bug has been reported at the bugzilla bugzilla
18:47 sekjal joined #koha
18:48 rangi hi sekjal
18:48 sekjal hi, rangi
18:50 cait-m joined #koha
18:51 rangi its travelling cait-m
18:51 sekjal anyone have a bug they want to nominate for first QA of the day?
18:52 jcamins Bug 6296.
18:52 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6296 enhancement, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, robin, Signed Off , Allow authentication to Koha via PKI / x.509 certificates
18:53 jcamins :)
18:56 sekjal jcamins:  I'll take a look
18:59 rangi ohh roles for 3.10 in the next meeting
19:00 sekjal it is about that time, isn't it?
19:00 jcamins Let's see... that's 2pm on Wednesday?
19:01 rangi hmm something like that
19:01 * sekjal nominates magnuse and cait for QA Assistants or QA Manager
19:01 cait-m_ joined #koha
19:01 * rangi puts his name down for release maintainer, hopefully to share with someone else
19:02 cait-m_ rangi++
19:04 * jcamins puts his name down for co-release maintainer.
19:05 rangi yay
19:05 cait-m_ yay
19:05 * sekjal nods approvingly
19:05 cait-m_ jcamins++
19:09 * jcamins considers how much he could automate.
19:09 rangi chris_n has scripted a lot of it already
19:09 * jcamins has all the virtues of Perl programmers.
19:10 rangi what we could do is make a branch that we push to first, then have jenkins test it
19:10 jcamins rangi: I know. I look forward to scripting more of it so that I can be lazy. :P
19:10 cait-m_ hmm
19:10 sekjal well, I think this has been before, a lot by rangi, but we're going to need more unit tests
19:11 rangi yep
19:11 rangi more tests
19:11 sekjal anyone who runs for Release Manager on a platform of "no unit test, no commit" would likely garner quite a bit of support
19:12 rangi be interesting to see who puts their name down for RM
19:12 jcamins Didn't paul_p volunteer to do 3.8 and 3.10?
19:12 sekjal jcamins:  lots of whitespace cleanup for 6296... was slowing me down until I remembered I could just git diff -w
19:13 sekjal I'm sure paul_p will run again
19:13 jcamins sekjal: heh. I didn't even notice, I always use -w.
19:13 sekjal jcamins: I usually read the patch in bugzilla
19:13 rangi you saw the nice way to fix the whitespace stuff too on patch apply?
19:13 Brooke joined #koha
19:14 sekjal same -w flag on git apply?
19:14 sekjal or git am?
19:15 rangi[…]patches-with-git/
19:15 * jcamins uses that.
19:15 cait-m_ me too
19:16 sekjal rangi:  nice!  I'll add that to my git config
19:17 rangi brb poo emergency
19:17 rangi the joys of fatherhood
19:19 sekjal oh dear
19:22 sekjal jcamins: am I completely crazy for writing an Amazon2MARC xslt?
19:22 jcamins sekjal: yes.
19:22 jcamins sekjal: however, it's a cool idea. :)
19:22 sekjal that's a quicker response than I was expecting :p
19:22 jcamins sekjal: really?
19:22 jcamins Did you really think there was any question?
19:22 sekjal I mean, would anyone actually WANT MARC records from Amazon data?
19:22 * jcamins would.
19:23 sekjal they DO have really good information on the size, shape and weight of things
19:24 jcamins Also, some sort of information on a lot of things that other places probably don't.
19:25 sekjal you'd be able to flush out ASIN/UPC/EAN data, which would give you more keys to search on later
19:25 sekjal for music, they're a handy source of individual track information
19:26 sekjal so I could automatically recreate basic MARC records for each track of CD, and link them back to the album record with analytics
19:26 rangi back
19:29 jcamins True. You should do that.
19:33 * jcamins observes that AMD motherboards don't seem to support much RAM, as a general rule.
19:35 jcamins Actually, it looks like even 8GB DIMMs aren't too bad.
19:37 cait-m_ joined #koha
19:37 * jcamins still exists in a world where 4GB DIMMs are out of reach of normal people.
19:38 cait-m_ waves once more
19:38 jcamins Black Forest?
19:40 cait-m_ almost
19:40 cait-m_ waiting for my last train
19:40 cait-m_ and yes, near the tunnels now
19:51 sekjal jcamins: 6296 requires a one-line fix to get past QA
19:51 jcamins What's that?
19:51 wahanui that is failed qa
19:51 jcamins wahanui: yes, I want to avoid it.
19:51 wahanui jcamins: huh?
19:52 sekjal the updatedatabase info for the new syspref is different from the sysprefs.sql value
19:52 sekjal so upgrading users and new installs will have divergent values for that preference
19:52 sekjal minor
19:52 sekjal but not acceptable
20:20 logbot joined #koha
20:20 Topic for #koha is now General IRC Meeting 21 March 18.00 UTC
20:20 rangi Jenkins can run tests against the unstable branch too
20:21 sekjal jcamins:  so, are you talking about having 3 levels, then, of stability?  master, unstable-stable and stable-stable?
20:22 jcamins Basically, except the idea is that no one should use unstable-stable.
20:22 jcamins That middle level is for transparency.
20:22 rangi Maybe call it testing
20:22 jcamins At least, no one should use it in production.
20:22 jcamins Better.
20:22 jcamins I will do that.
20:22 rangi Like debian
20:22 sekjal that sounds a lot like what Paul was talking about in his 3.8 RM proposal
20:23 cait hm
20:23 cait but means
20:23 cait if someone discovers a bad evil bug
20:23 rangi But without relaxing qa
20:23 cait in the stable release
20:23 cait he will have to wait 2 months
20:23 rangi Which his proposal also had
20:23 cait becuase 1 release cycle it will be still in embargo perio
20:23 sekjal rangi:  right
20:23 cait d
20:23 cait and then will go into the second after the bug was found and fixed
20:24 rangi If its bad enough it can jump
20:24 jcamins cait: if s/he can make a convincing argument that the fix is *provably* safe, I'd consider appeals.
20:24 rangi But there have been a few too many regressions in stable
20:25 rangi Be nice to reduce that
20:25 cait I agree
20:25 rangi Is the idea
20:25 cait I love stable
20:25 cait only trying to think aobut how this will work
20:25 rangi And you could go to 3.8
20:26 sekjal metaphorically:  we're adding more pools to the waterfall
20:26 rangi Which won't have the embargo.  But if it works for 3.6 maybe both stables will do it in the future
20:27 jcamins sekjal: but hopefully not drowning.
20:27 sekjal rather than providing a tighter filter on the flow
20:27 sekjal the risk being that if you filter too aggressively, nothing gets through
20:28 rangi It's just for transperancy
20:28 sekjal but in the extra pool, little fishes can help catch some of the unfiltered bugs before they get to our stable pool
20:28 * sekjal has probably abused this metaphor enough
20:28 rangi We could do it without pushing another branch
20:29 rangi Just hold patches anyway
20:29 rangi But nice to do it out in the open
20:29 jcamins sekjal: right, because on average, stable is pretty stable. It's just that with large bugfixes, there are often regressions discovered in the first few days, and it would be good to never have the branch in a regressed state.
20:29 sekjal and just because something gets committed to the stable branch doesn't mean it makes it into a stable release
20:30 jcamins sekjal: right, though we *hope* that all regressions get fixed.
20:31 sekjal I'm probably not the best person to speak towards this... I don't even work for a Koha library anymore!
20:31 sekjal and my home library will be on master
20:32 * jcamins wanted to know it made sense.
20:33 * jcamins doesn't run on any standard branch. 3.6.x+a couple of additional patches for major CSS changes and required features.
20:35 sekjal jcamins:  got the patches in the right order for 7310
20:35 sekjal now to test
20:37 sekjal but first a quick run out to the shed with the recycling!
20:37 jcamins[…]camins_RMaint_36x
20:40 jcamins libsysguy: around?
20:40 libsysguy yeah
20:40 libsysguy whats up
20:41 * libsysguy is trying to figure out amazon aws
20:41 jcamins Did you ever figure out the direct RefWorks export after they changed the API?
20:41 libsysguy I didn't know they changed the api?
20:41 jcamins Yeah, the jquery I provided didn't work.
20:42 libsysguy haha how long has that been broken?
20:42 jcamins Uhhh... a while.
20:42 jcamins You were working with them to set up different kind of interface.
20:43 jcamins Weren't you?
20:43 * jcamins hasn't actually tried his jquery again.
20:43 jcamins I should do that.
20:43 libsysguy lmao nobody has mentioned it….which is really REALLY funny because we had a librarian preach about how we couldn't get rid of refworks…it was an existential experience
20:44 libsysguy when I try and use ours im prompted for a login
20:44 jcamins But, you're not using the jQuery, are you?
20:44 libsysguy yes I think so
20:44 sekjal hey, libsysguy!
20:44 wahanui somebody said libsysguy was Koha's hottest developer or partying with swedes on his deck
20:44 jcamins Oh.
20:44 libsysguy yes I am using jquery
20:44 jcamins Okay, I'll try this.
20:44 libsysguy hey sekjal
20:46 * sekjal hopes to have a little time for Hourly Loans tomorrow
20:46 libsysguy that would be amazing
20:47 libsysguy is interested to see if it makes it past the gatekeeper
20:47 jcamins You know what would be nice? An open-source Refworks alternative.
20:48 jcamins Not like Zotero, which is more of an Endnote alternative, but a Refworks alternative.
20:48 libsysguy is there not one of those available
20:48 jcamins libsysguy: not that I know of.
20:49 libsysguy hmm
20:49 jcamins Let me rephrase that.
20:49 jcamins One that is still being developed.
20:49 jcamins Connotea is the same idea, but the last release was 2006.
20:50 libsysguy yeah, I know we talked about switching to zotero
20:51 libsysguy or even endnote
20:51 libsysguy refworks kind of sucks for $5K a year
20:52 jcamins Refbase looked really cool back in 2008, but that was also when it was last released.
20:53 jcamins *the last version was released
21:17 logbot joined #koha
21:17 Topic for #koha is now General IRC Meeting 21 March 18.00 UTC
21:17 rangi True
21:17 sekjal cheers, #koha!
21:37 * rangi wanders off for a bit
23:07 cait joined #koha

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