IRC log for #koha, 2011-12-01

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:05 Soupermanito joined #koha
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00:50 NateC left #koha
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00:51 wizzyrea
00:51 wizzyrea j'
00:51 wizzyrea m ;jk[; ]'
00:51 wizzyrea ; [
00:53 Judit hi rea, having fun?
00:53 wizzyrea that would be "3 year old typing detected"
00:55 rangi heh
00:55 mtj peeps.. any idea when 3.4.7 is being released?
00:55 mtj ... with the security patches?
00:56 rangi 7th december
00:56 mtj ah, i just missed chris_n  :/
00:56 mtj ok, thanks chris
01:13 melia left #koha
01:24 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 7278] In the items table, make items.materials of type text, and show its contents at circulation <[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7278>
01:24 Judit can you change the timezone in koha? i dont seem to find it in the manual
01:24 rangi no
01:25 rangi it runs on the servers timezone
01:25 Judit thanks
01:25 rangi changing it in koha would be messy
01:25 rangi cos the crons will still run on system time
01:25 Judit hm
01:25 Judit i see
01:25 rangi and all the emails etc
01:27 Judit if the server time is back in USA and the library is in AU, it could mess up even the circulation rules
01:27 Judit it could mean almost a day delay
01:27 rangi yes
01:27 rangi so you would want to switch ethe server time to be AU
01:28 wizzyrea probably no big deal really
01:30 Judit you just need to remember when browsing the logs that the time is behind
01:30 Judit oki
01:31 wizzyrea well there's one for the log
01:31 wizzyrea I just told my 3 year old "no, we don't ever ever ever put our gum in our ears!!!"
01:31 Judit :D so he put it up in his nose?
01:32 wizzyrea not yet!
01:38 druthb joined #koha
01:39 druthb o/
01:40 wizzyrea \o
01:40 druthb :D  hi, wizzyrea!
01:40 wizzyrea hiyas :)
01:42 trea joined #koha
01:43 druthb hi, trea!
01:43 trea hi druthb
01:43 trea how goes it?
01:45 druthb giggling like a maniac.
01:50 * BobB waves to druthb
01:51 druthb hi, BobB!  :D  how's things down your way?
01:51 rangi hi druthb
01:51 druthb hi, rangi! :D
01:52 BobB Hi Ruth, all good here.
01:53 druthb :D  Good to hear!
01:56 BobB Its near the end of the year now - it gets busy.
01:56 BobB Australia shuts for January.
01:56 BobB Except a couple of libraries want to go live whilst the rest of the country is quiet.
01:57 BobB :)
02:01 tcohen joined #koha
02:01 rangi hmmm
02:02 rangi @later tell paul_p shouldnt the db version in master by 3.07 ? not 3.06
02:02 huginn rangi: The operation succeeded.
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02:22 lizzy hmm indeed
02:22 rangi heh
02:22 lizzy hrmph
02:24 druthb joined #koha
02:26 * druthb is kind of irritated to discover that there are no Koha contributors on this list:[…]of_women_in_FLOSS    May have to correct that.
02:32 rangi ibeardslee:!/taratj/[…]42067720719048705
02:38 lizzy left #koha
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02:43 brendan_ripon evening
02:44 rangi hiya brendan_ripon
02:45 brendan_ripon yo rangs - what's happening
02:46 rangi same old same old
02:47 * chris_n hears the pillow calling
02:49 * brendan_ripon loves training libraries - that's where it's at
02:54 druthb hi, brendan_ripon! :)
02:57 brendan_ripon yo druthb
02:58 * brendan_ripon is on mibbit - since I'm blocked by the hotel
02:58 druthb gotta love hotel wifi.  when it works, at all.
02:58 druthb just's better than Vihang's!
02:59 Judit it is usually easier and cheaper to buy a sim card and use itin a unlocked phone
03:00 Judit and share the network
03:00 Judit that is what we always do
03:00 rangi brendan_ripon: hotel blocks ssh?
03:00 Judit once we found a hotel with - "free-WiFi"- it meant that you could browse the site of the hotel for free :D
03:03 brendan_ripon ports above 6000 are blocked
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04:47 rangi back
04:47 rangi on the bus
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05:00 Judit joined #koha
05:08 Oak joined #koha
05:09 Oak kia or a#koha
05:09 Oak uh oh
05:09 Oak hello druthb :)
05:09 Oak rangi
05:12 druthb hi, Oak! :D
05:12 Oak :)
05:13 cait joined #koha
05:22 rangi hi Oak
05:22 rangi morning cait
05:22 Oak :)
05:22 Oak hello miss cait
05:23 cait hey rangi and mr Oak :)
06:31 Judit left #koha
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07:04 magnus_afk kia ora #koha
07:05 cait morning magnuse :)
07:05 magnus_afk morgen cait
07:05 cait :)
07:05 magnus_afk wow, 1st of december
07:06 Oak magnus
07:07 magnus_afk Oak
07:07 cait yeah it is
07:07 Oak yes. another year.
07:07 cait scary
07:07 Oak scary, yes, which reminds me, how do people start their presentation?
07:08 cait hm
07:08 Oak starting is weird.
07:08 cait telling them a bit about myself most of the time
07:08 Oak once you get going... then it's fine
07:08 Oak it's rude to talk about oneself
07:08 Oak kidding
07:08 cait hehe
07:08 Oak :)
07:08 cait and welcome, nice you are here... will be talking about ... today
07:09 Oak oh thank you, i'm happy to be here
07:09 Oak kidding, again
07:09 Oak got it
07:09 Oak Hello and welcome. good.
07:10 cait talking about me = librarian, work at BSZ... what do I do there
07:10 cait things like that :)
07:10 cait not about my hobbies and my favourite dish
07:10 Oak i was just kidding cait :-)
07:10 cait not really awake yet
07:11 Oak it would be fun to hear you talk about your hobbies and favorite dish, though
07:11 Oak any day of the year
07:12 cait koha and almost everything that is not cauliflower :)
07:13 Oak :)
07:13 Oak okay me go now.
07:13 cait ok, bye Oak :)
07:13 Oak later. will tell about today'a adventure :)
07:13 Oak thanks
07:13 Oak left #koha
07:27 alex_a1 morning cait
07:27 cait morning alex_a1 :)
07:30 alex_a1 is now known as alex_a
07:30 alex_a voila
07:34 cait asaurat++
07:34 cait just finished testing 6893 - works great
07:35 magnus_afk bug 6893
07:35 wahanui bug 6893 is evil :(
07:35 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6893 critical, PATCH-Sent, ---, adrien.saurat, ASSIGNED , Order from suggestion does not remove suggestion from 'accepted' list
07:42 cait wahanui: no longer!
07:42 wahanui cait: excuse me?
07:42 cait wahanui: bug 6893 is no longer that evil
07:42 wahanui ...but bug 6893 is evil :(...
07:42 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6893 critical, PATCH-Sent, ---, adrien.saurat, ASSIGNED , Order from suggestion does not remove suggestion from 'accepted' list
07:42 cait forget bug 6893
07:42 wahanui cait: I forgot bug 6893
07:53 cait bbiab
07:54 cait left #koha
07:56 matts_away is now known as matts
08:03 paul_p joined #koha
08:03 magnus_afk kia ora paul_p
08:05 rangi hi paul_p
08:05 asaurat joined #koha
08:05 paul_p hi magnus_afk & rangi (here just for a few minuts, after, heading for a meeting)
08:06 magnus_afk is now known as magnuse
08:06 reiveune joined #koha
08:06 magnuse have a nice meeting paul_p!
08:06 Guillaume1 joined #koha
08:06 reiveune hello
08:07 asaurat hi! !
08:07 sophie_m joined #koha
08:07 Judit joined #koha
08:08 magnuse bonjour!
08:12 julian_m joined #koha
08:13 julian_m hi
08:19 magnuse stupid norwegian strings getting themselves marked as fuzzy!
08:19 kf joined #koha
08:20 magnuse wieder guten morgen kf
08:20 kf another good morning to you too :)
08:20 magnuse yay
08:20 rangi wie gehts kf?
08:21 * paul_p just requested a link to DL LLK 4.8 Will report you about the results...
08:21 kf gut :)
08:21 paul_p time to leave for my meeting. See you soon
08:21 kf paul_p: ?
08:21 rangi paul_p: its all in github
08:21 paul_p really ? it's not written anywhere.
08:21 paul_p is now known as paul_away
08:22 kf ... and it's really not that interesting
08:22 rangi yeah, not much diff to 4.2
08:22 kf but it's 4.8
08:22 kf not 4.4...
08:22 * kf shakes her head
08:22 rangi 3.6 kf
08:23 kf hm?
08:23 rangi its all about confusing
08:23 rangi but meh
08:23 rangi not important
08:24 kf ah ok.
08:26 juan_sieira joined #koha
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08:31 francharb joined #koha
08:32 francharb morning
08:32 kf hi francharb
08:32 magnuse hiya francharb and juan_sieira
08:33 magnuse yay nb-NO opac is 100% translated again
08:33 magnuse stupid norwegian strings getting themselves marked as fuzzy!
08:33 rangi woo whoo
08:33 magnuse only 81% left on the staff side... gah!
08:33 kf woohooo!
08:33 kf magnuse++
08:34 * magnuse considers campaining for adopting english as the official language in norway
08:35 rangi hehe
08:35 juan_sieira hi magnuse
08:35 magnuse wassup juan_sieira?
08:37 juan_sieira none
08:37 juan_sieira keep on working
08:37 magnuse yay, that's the spirit! ;-)
08:38 juan_sieira I just arrived now to office
08:38 juan_sieira I need some coffee to start...
08:41 magnuse my goal for the day: an empty inbox...
08:42 Judit go magnus, go!
08:42 Judit you can do it
08:42 kf magnuse: you believe in miracles?
08:44 magnuse well, the plan is to solve/answer what i can do now, and move the rest to my todo list
08:44 magnuse thanks Judit
08:44 kf :)
08:46 rangi i currently only have 488 mails
08:46 kf magnuse: i was not very supportive... sorry
08:47 kf for me it really depends on the folder
08:47 rangi thats my inbox
08:47 magnuse kf: yes, i did make a note of you non-supportiveness ;-)
08:47 kf uoh
08:47 rangi 9971 currently in my koha folder
08:47 magnuse i have 22 threads to go through, then it's empty
08:48 kf inbox at 33 today... but i have todo folders
08:48 magnuse yeah, i have 370 unread *threads* in my "koha tech" folder, mostly patches and bugzilla updates
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08:59 kf is now known as kf_mtg
09:01 rangi 3/ws 18
09:01 rangi hmm
09:02 kf_mtg ?
09:03 rangi typing fail
09:09 Judit left #koha
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09:34 rangi @wunder wellington nz
09:34 huginn rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 15.0�C (10:00 PM NZDT on December 01, 2011). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 72%. Dew Point: 10.0�C. Pressure: 30.36 in 1028 hPa (Rising).
09:39 kf_mtg @wunder Konstanz
09:39 huginn kf_mtg: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 4.9�C (10:35 AM CET on December 01, 2011). Conditions: Fog. Humidity: 97%. Dew Point: 4.0�C. Windchill: 5.0�C. Pressure: 30.28 in 1025.3 hPa (Rising).
09:55 magnuse @wunder boo
09:55 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 8.0�C (10:20 AM CET on December 01, 2011). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 71%. Dew Point: 3.0�C. Windchill: 4.0�C. Pressure: 28.94 in 980 hPa (Steady).
09:55 magnuse yay
09:55 kf_mtg is now known as kf
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10:14 Brooke 0/
10:16 asaurat joined #koha
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10:24 magnuse o/
10:25 Brooke :D
10:37 kf hi Brooke - go to bed ;)
10:37 Brooke NU!
10:38 Brooke It's 5.35 here. That's uh, not even early if I'm lead to believe our meeting schedule is decent. :P
10:38 kf hehe ok
10:38 kf but today is not a meeting?
10:38 * Brooke hops
10:38 Brooke nope
10:48 * Brooke suspects that no one in Horowhenua turns in before 10.
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11:02 Brooke bananacremepie++
11:20 matts is now known as matts_away
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11:44 francharb 0/ Brooke!
11:44 francharb ;^)
11:45 francharb time for lunch!
11:45 francharb is now known as francharb_lunch
11:45 Brooke rats
11:47 paul_away left #koha
12:16 syed joined #koha
12:16 syed hi all
12:16 Brooke howdy
12:16 wahanui what's up, Brooke
12:18 syed I have "placehold" a book on OPAC which has only 1 copy ... but the same book still available to other OPAC user?
12:21 Brooke I think it stays available until the Librarian fetches it and places a hold on it. Unless they finagle though, you ought to stay first in the holds queue though.
12:21 kf syed: it still displays as available, until you go and get it and return it
12:21 kf what Brooke said
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12:31 syed Brooke: kf:  If I placed hold any book from OPAC... is there any option that the same book will show "on hold" to other OPAC user
12:31 kf no
12:32 syed ok
12:32 kf hm
12:32 kf or perhaps
12:32 kf no, I think there isn't but you might still want to check the hold related system preferences
12:33 syed kf: let me try 1st to fetch this book through librarian  (as brooke: said)
12:39 chris_n @wunder 28334
12:39 huginn chris_n: The current temperature in Erwin, North Carolina is 0.0�C (7:15 AM EST on December 01, 2011). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 100%. Dew Point: 0.0�C. Windchill: -2.0�C. Pressure: 30.27 in 1025 hPa (Rising).
12:40 chris_n heh, humidity... not
12:41 kf hi chris_n
12:42 NateC joined #koha
12:42 Brooke oi Nate
12:45 jcamins_away is now known as jcamins
12:45 jcamins Good morning, #koha.
12:46 chris_n g'morning/afternoon kf
12:46 * chris_n hands jcamins coffee
12:46 NateC morning Brooke!
12:46 NateC morning jcamins
12:46 chris_n and anyone else who would like some
12:46 NateC and everyone else too!
12:48 * jcamins sips the coffee from chris_n.
12:49 matts_away is now known as matts
12:50 * chris_n reads the mail
12:51 kf can I get hot chocolate?
12:54 * Brooke gives Cait some hot chocolate.
12:54 * chris_n hands over some truffles
12:55 chris_n and maybe a chocolate donut or two :)
12:55 chris_n ok, off to teach algebra
12:55 * Brooke posits that chris_n is also prolly a Yorkshireman at heart ;)
12:55 Brooke cheers
12:55 chris_n :)
12:57 asaurat left #koha
12:57 jcamins Heh. ".not-a-LibLime-fake"
12:58 kf chris_n++ :)
12:58 jcamins cheese++
12:59 Brooke feck cheese
12:59 Brooke wine.
12:59 Brooke we're running Koha Syrah.
12:59 kf cookie flavours :)
12:59 jcamins Koha Bordeaux 3.8.0.
12:59 kf that's much more logical for us than wine or cheese
12:59 Brooke I can be persuaded to run cookie flavours.
12:59 jcamins Koha Gouda 3.8.0.
12:59 kf that's stinky
13:00 kf cookies on the opposite...
13:00 Brooke Bordeaux sounds better
13:00 Brooke but cookies ARE more fun.
13:00 kf or sweets in general :) yum. hehe
13:00 jcamins Koha Oatmeal-chocolate chip 3.8.0.
13:00 kf yeah, and suddenly you want to update!
13:00 Brooke we could honour the country that hosted KohaCon that year
13:00 jcamins lol
13:00 Brooke in naming the sweets locally
13:01 kf also a nice plan
13:01 kf what for india?
13:01 Brooke Koha Gulab Jamun
13:01 kf huh?
13:02 kf picture?
13:02 jcamins
13:02 Brooke[…]2/23/gulab-jamun/
13:03 kf looks yummy enough
13:03 kf[…]eets_and_desserts
13:04 kf Koha Lassi?
13:04 Brooke you're back to drinks :P
13:04 kf it's in the list of sweets
13:05 kf it counds
13:05 kf coutns
13:05 kf counts
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13:16 libsysguy1 so I was doing some early morning domain name browsing and I saw some interesting dn's for sale related to Koha
13:17 libsysguy1 Ex:,, and
13:20 libsysguy1 secondly I thought that .org was only for non-profit organizations
13:20 Brooke nope that's an Interwebs myth
13:20 libsysguy1 hmm
13:21 Brooke it was intended for non profit use initially
13:21 Brooke but not everyone with one is non profit.
13:21 Brooke indeed. MITRE was the first with it
13:21 Brooke and they're a defence contractor
13:21 Brooke so
13:22 libsysguy1 well thats sad then...
13:23 libsysguy1 i wonder if would consider selling
13:23 Brooke it gets sticky, but it's not like there's someone at the registrar's going "Hey buddy, hand over your 501c3 paperwork"
13:23 Brooke and even if there were, not all 501c3s are created equal ;)
13:23 libsysguy1 yeah but i was thinking there might be a tip line ;)
13:27 kf hi asaurat :)
13:27 asaurat hi!
13:28 kf asaurat++
13:28 asaurat I saw the updates about our bug :D
13:28 kf tested the fix for suggestions you did and it works very nicely :)
13:28 asaurat thx =)
13:28 kf I also might have given some pointers to other related bugs...
13:28 kf :P
13:28 oleonard joined #koha
13:29 Brooke 0/
13:29 asaurat yep, saw that, you don't lose any time ;) good!
13:29 kf I think we could consider the status thing working perfectly if it would go into AVAILABLE sometime
13:29 kf hehe
13:29 kf hope you don't mind :) still very happy that this part works now!
13:30 asaurat is there already an AVAILABLE status used somewhere, or would it be something to be created ? I don't remember that
13:31 kf it's in the templates
13:31 Callender left #koha
13:31 kf I am not sure how much of that has been implemented :(
13:31 asaurat ok
13:31 kf but I found traces of it
13:31 kf so it seems to me like it was intended
13:31 syed left #koha
13:31 kf and we are supposed to send out letters when things get available
13:31 asaurat seems logical indeed, I'll take a look
13:31 jcamins Koha ash-covered goat cheese 3.10.0?
13:31 kf we have notice templates, and available shows up in the template for suggestions
13:32 kf but I no not much more than that
13:32 kf no = know
13:32 kf jcamins: Koha cha cham 3.6
13:32 kf
13:34 paul_away joined #koha
13:34 kf hi paul_away
13:37 libsysguy1 I know the community doesn't own any money but has anybody contacted to see how much they would want for their domain?
13:38 oleonard I don't think that ever works out well
13:38 kf I don't think so
13:38 asaurat maybe could they surrender it to us if we beat them in a hockey game
13:38 libsysguy1 hehe
13:38 kf belongs to a publisher
13:38 kf asaurat: rugby!
13:38 libsysguy1 well I used to work for a company that dealt in domains
13:38 libsysguy1 and honestly sometimes it was worth the call
13:39 libsysguy1 their whois record shows a public contact
13:39 asaurat well, that's a hockey team and we have a project from new zealand, they will refuse any rugby game I'm afraid ;)
13:40 paul_away is now known as paul_p
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13:48 Brooke they had the trade mark to Koha in the US for like forever
13:48 Brooke so I don't think they'll fork over the domain.
13:48 Brooke plus
13:48 Brooke it's not like anyone would be confused by their website.
13:48 kf asaurat: ok, that makes sense then :)
13:49 libsysguy1 Brooke you mean the hockey team?
13:49 Brooke yep
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13:51 Brooke It's theoretically abandoned, but it wouldn't surprise me if they reactivated at some point
13:51 Brooke[…]e=4001:5l2e23.2.1
13:52 libsysguy1 i see the wordmark on Koha from Metavore
13:52 libsysguy1 i assume they were bought by ptfs
13:52 kf hm
13:52 Brooke yep Metavore is LibLime's real name
13:52 libsysguy1 thus ptfs now owns that mark
13:52 kf ah
13:53 libsysguy1 Would anybody be opposed to me shooting the maintainer an email just to see what his price was?
13:54 Brooke personally, I'd just leave them alone
13:54 kf the hockey team?
13:54 libsysguy1 yeah
13:54 kf yeah, I would think leve them
13:54 libsysguy1 ok
13:54 asaurat libsysguy1: try to look poor
13:54 libsysguy1 hehe i can do that…im in college :p
13:54 Brooke where else would they host their hockey site?
13:54 Brooke and why?
13:54 oleonard Yeah, I don't think that's something we should pursue. We have our own domain
13:55 libsysguy1 ok, I just know that when we first started looking for Koha we found ptfs first
13:55 kf hm
13:55 kf koha is a character mark
13:55 oleonard I think it would just create more confusion if our project were and ptfs were
13:55 Brooke deceptive business practices are deceptive?
13:56 kf so the symbol is not trademarked, right?
13:56 libsysguy1 it wasn't until we called and found out it wasn't the open source koha that we found koha-community
13:56 libsysguy1 no its not, and we should file for a mark on our symbol
13:56 kf that's what I was thinking
13:56 kf because it's nice - and has a meaning
13:56 * libsysguy1 is taking a business law class this semester
13:56 kf yay ;)
13:57 libsysguy1 so I am kind of interested in what is going on with this
13:57 libsysguy1 technically we could run into problems if we bought
13:57 libsysguy1 since we have "confusingly similar" products
13:57 libsysguy1 and they have the wordmark
13:58 oleonard Too bad libraries in the United States have been using Koha under that name since before Liblime existed.
13:58 Brooke I personally think the horse has long left the stall
13:58 Brooke it'd be interesting to see what the courts said.
13:59 libsysguy1 agreed
14:00 oleonard If the trademark issue in NZ is resolved as PTFS has promised I wonder if we could use those donations to challenge the TM in the US
14:01 libsysguy1 ^^
14:03 kf hm let's wait ok?
14:03 Brooke interresante.
14:03 kf they have not tried to enforce it
14:04 libsysguy1 because no court would uphold it...
14:05 libsysguy1 BUT
14:05 libsysguy1 if they did…we'd basically be royally screwed
14:07 Brooke not entirely
14:07 Brooke we'd name change and move on
14:07 Brooke which would hose a leech.
14:07 Brooke no more blood to suck
14:07 Brooke oh well.
14:08 libsysguy1 yeah…so its basically comes down to…what is your name worth to you
14:09 oleonard It would be great press to have PTFS say they would go after libraries using the term Koha
14:11 libsysguy1 haha that would be pretty funny to see actually
14:12 oleonard jwagner: When will PTFS/LibLime seek a direct dialog with Koha stakeholders to determine an equitable solution for the disposition of the trademark?
14:13 jwagner oleonard, would you like a history lesson, and to have me correct all the misstatements in the preceding discussion?
14:13 jwagner Or to just note that we HAVE sought dialog multiple times and been rebuffed.
14:13 oleonard Actually I was just wondering when  PTFS/LibLime would seek a direct dialog with Koha stakeholders to determine an equitable solution for the disposition of the trademark
14:13 oleonard they said they "encouraged"
14:14 oleonard If you're telling me, jwagner, that PTFS cannot reach the Koha stakeholders, then I'm confused.
14:14 * Brooke is pretty sure oleonard knows his history as he works at the Library that was one of the first running Koha in the states.
14:15 oleonard The first, to my knowledge.
14:15 JesseM @wunder 06614
14:15 huginn JesseM: The current temperature in Brewer Stratford Marina, Stratford, Connecticut is 4.8�C (9:13 AM EST on December 01, 2011). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 24%. Dew Point: -14.0�C. Windchill: 0.0�C. Pressure: 30.10 in 1019.2 hPa (Rising).
14:15 jwagner Maybe it is time for the history lesson.  When PTFS first entered the Koha field, our attempts to get listed as a support provider were blocked repeatedly and we were ordered to stop using the Koha logo etc. by people who now have conveniently short memories.
14:15 oleonard jwagner: We don't want to hear your history lession. We just want to know when PTFS will be contacting us.
14:16 Brooke You were blocked by a party that no longer participates, no?
14:16 jwagner This was done at the instigation of Josh and Liblime who were afraid of us, but supported and enabled by many of the same people who now represent "the community".
14:16 Brooke So that obstacle no longer exists, yes?
14:17 Brooke Your CEO professed a fresh start, yes?
14:17 jwagner So you're asking us to hand over things like trademarks etc. to people who participated in trying to use them against us
14:17 Brooke Then continued to war with the community, yes?
14:17 oleonard jwagner: You're misrepresenting again
14:17 Brooke at no point did anyone use a mark against you
14:17 Brooke the self preservation argument is ridiculous on the face.
14:17 jwagner Brooke, yes they did.  We have the correspondence.
14:17 Brooke by all means, make that public
14:17 Brooke I'd love to see it.
14:18 jwagner We have not and will not attempt to enforce trademarks, but also will not hand them over without the guarantees we've stated.
14:18 Brooke I'd still like to know why John Yokley promised community involvement and has failed to deliver on that.
14:18 sekjal joined #koha
14:18 jwagner Because every time we've tried we've been rebuffed.  I've participated in several of those discussions myself.
14:18 Brooke and I believe that it was just stated that HLT can do just that and are validated by the community to do so.
14:19 Brooke what has been rebuffed
14:19 Brooke is that a Koha Foundation, controlled solely by PTFS, can hold a mark
14:20 Brooke and perhaps your memory is short indeed
14:20 Brooke the very first time I met you
14:21 Brooke I offered to talk over Community issues
14:21 maximep joined #koha
14:21 Brooke and you rebuffed me.
14:21 talljoy joined #koha
14:21 jwagner I did not.  I passed that offer on to my bosses.
14:21 jwagner My memory is not short, but my patience is exhausted.
14:21 Brooke and did they contact me?
14:21 Brooke no.
14:22 Brooke you had my information
14:22 oleonard jwagner:[…]10150377460456996
14:22 Brooke they chose not to use it
14:22 oleonard jwagner: "PTFS/LibLime encourages a direct dialog with Koha stakeholders to determine an equitable solution for the disposition of the trademark that serves the best interests of the libraries who use Koha"
14:22 Brooke PTFS willingly repeated past mistakes.
14:22 oleonard jwagner: We are waiting.
14:23 Brooke "As promised, PTFS will continue to support the Koha open source community."
14:23 Brooke I'm still waiting for that.
14:23 Brooke[…]April/023548.html
14:23 jwagner We have done so.
14:24 Brooke oh really?
14:24 Brooke how so?
14:24 jwagner Let's see.  Definition of support?  Participate in meetings, create bug reports, submit patches, participate on the listserv and IRC, what else?
14:24 * chris_n reads an email with an offer to use the koha dataset from the House of Representatives Congressional Library Bureau of the Philippians in it
14:25 jcamins Woohoo!
14:25 chris_n for development purposes
14:25 Brooke oh sweet chris
14:25 jcamins philippines_house_of_representatives++
14:25 chris_n they say they have received such invaluable support thorough the list and irc that they want to give back
14:25 Brooke submitting patches to your own fork's repository doesn't count.
14:26 Brooke patronising over IRC also doesn't count.
14:26 edveal joined #koha
14:27 Brooke there's still time to do what you said you would
14:27 jwagner Brooke, would you care to compare how many patches I and other PTFS people have submitted to _community_ code versus how many you have done?
14:28 Brooke sure.
14:28 Brooke Stack your negligible commits to master v my documentation
14:28 Brooke Go.
14:28 Brooke *LibLime* initially participated
14:28 Brooke but if you look at git for the last year
14:29 Brooke PTFS commits from US are negligible at best.
14:29 Brooke do the maths to see what I've done for the community this past year alone
14:29 jwagner So there's a time limit on "participation"
14:29 Brooke versus the harm you've sought to do
14:29 Brooke go ahead.
14:29 oleonard jwagner: Obviously there is, because time has changed your participation level
14:29 oleonard jwagner: You don't get to "buy" the credit for Liblime's participation in the past
14:30 jwagner oleonard, for precisely this reason -- I'm tired of being attacked
14:30 oleonard jwagner: You don't want to submit patches because you get attacked for it?
14:30 jwagner and I'm not trying to buy credits.  I'm talking about patches I have personally written and submitted.
14:30 sekjal[…]t=author&s=wagner
14:30 sekjal I believe that's a fairly accurate search... I'm willing to refine as necessary
14:31 oleonard jwagner: Why do you think PTFS has not moved to start a direct dialog with Koha stakeholders to determine an equitable solution for the disposition of the trademark that serves the best interests of the libraries who use Koha?
14:32 jwagner why do you think the stakeholders haven't?  We've tried talking to the committee in the past; we're willing to try again.
14:33 Brooke then show up at the next General IRC meeting
14:33 Brooke instead of insisting that things are done under cover of darkness.
14:33 Brooke we work in sunlight.
14:33 oleonard jwagner: Your press release says PTFS wants it. So do it.
14:33 jwagner Brooke, I've attended almost every meeting.
14:33 oleonard Don't throw the question back at me jwagner
14:33 oleonard jwagner: Are you saying you speak for PTFS?
14:33 Brooke can you cite in the meeting minutes when you've brought up this issue?
14:33 jwagner And at the risk of ending this enjoyable conversation, I have a client call scheduled that I have to make.  I'll be back later.
14:34 oleonard Come back with new information jwagner
14:34 Brooke if they were earnest, they'd have signed over the assets
14:35 libsysguy1 is now known as libsysguy_afk
14:37 larryb joined #koha
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14:38 brendan_ripon morning all
14:38 brendan_ripon irc_logs?
14:38 brendan_ripon logs?
14:38 wahanui logs are at
14:38 brendan_ripon thanks
14:38 jcamins wahanui: irc logs are at
14:38 wahanui ...but irc logs is ibot's friend :)...
14:38 wahanui ...but irc logs are ibot's friend :)...
14:39 jcamins irc logs?
14:39 wahanui irc logs are ibot's friend :)
14:39 kf lol
14:39 jcamins Uhhh...
14:39 brendan_ripon heh
14:39 kf irc logs are also at
14:39 wahanui okay, kf.
14:39 kf irc logs?
14:39 wahanui irc logs are ibot's friend :) or at
14:39 brendan_ripon whenever I type log - I always think of the sound..  log log
14:39 brendan_ripon whoops song not sound
14:40 Brooke it's big it's heavy it's wood?
14:40 brendan_ripon yup that one
14:40 Brooke :)
14:40 magnuse ?
14:41 Brooke
14:41 Brooke clearly this is the intended purpose of Reference. ;)
14:42 * magnuse 's mind boggles
14:43 sekjal ah, that brings me back...
14:43 paul_p yeah ... we've found a stupid SQL query that load all framework just to retrieve one value. Patch coming, that reduce the CPU consumption a lot ! (from 5.98s to 4.23s on our tests...)
14:43 paul_p (on each result page)
14:44 kf cool :)
14:44 kf improving_koha++ :)
14:44 kf paul_p++
14:44 Brooke way to go paul!
14:44 Brooke paul_p++
14:44 libsysguy_afk @karma improving_koha
14:44 huginn libsysguy_afk: Karma for "improving_koha" has been increased 1 time and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 1.
14:44 paul_p joubu++ would be more honest ;-)
14:44 Brooke I'm really excited to hear about all of the good stuff that came out of conference performance wise
14:45 sekjal paul_p++.  that kind of work is VERY satisfying
14:45 sekjal joubu++
14:46 libsysguy_afk left #koha
14:46 kf I like this better than discussions about past and things - let's make koha the best ils
14:46 Brooke a yep
14:46 Brooke :)
14:47 sekjal I've got a feature idea I need to discuss a bit, if anyone has time
14:47 Brooke oooh oooh
14:47 Brooke discuss
14:47 sekjal nothing super fancy
14:47 Brooke I <3 features.
14:47 Brooke should we do a type with me for speccing, or what?
14:47 sekjal half bugfix, half feature, really
14:47 kf spill :)
14:47 * sekjal worries he may have oversold this...
14:47 kf making us more and more curious...
14:47 jcamins sekjal: I'd like to hear about it, anyway.
14:48 sekjal so, in a multi branch environment, circulation is naturally more complex
14:48 paul_p we had a Solr expert last week, for 3 days. The speed of Koha/Solr sometimes goes very bad. The reason is not Solr. It's Koha !
14:48 sekjal a material is owned by one library, and possibly lent by another, and could in theory be returned to a third
14:48 jcamins paul_p: was that a surprise? :P
14:49 sekjal paul_p:  is there a solution, or at least a good place to start?
14:49 paul_p well, we hoped it was a shared problem...
14:49 kf I imagine it#s probably slowing down zebra now too
14:50 juan_sieira left #koha
14:50 jcamins sekjal: yes, that's a common situation with large consortia.
14:51 sekjal so, there are really two questions that come into play in a return
14:51 sekjal 1) can the patron return the material here?
14:51 sekjal 2) if so, where does that material go next?
14:51 juan_sieira joined #koha
14:51 sekjal right now, we're using HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn to answer both of those questions
14:51 * Brooke nods.
14:51 Brooke I grok ye sekjal.
14:52 sekjal the problem being, of course, that if you can only return to the HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn library, then your automatic transfer won't kick off, because you're already there
14:53 sekjal and, with IndependantBranches on, you cannot return to anything BUT the HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn library
14:53 rhcl_asm joined #koha
14:54 sekjal so, we need to break HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn down into two separate mechanisms.  one to answer question 1, the other to answer question 2
14:54 sekjal what should those mechanisms look like?
14:54 Brooke I'd also suggest
14:54 Brooke a weighting mechanism
14:54 Brooke and cleverness in construction
14:55 Brooke that takes delivery in mind
14:55 Brooke in general, Libraries have a set schedule for delivery
14:55 Brooke if we know that the truck is going to the next Library down the road, it's easier to send it on so it gets there today
14:55 Brooke rather than wait a week
14:55 Brooke does that make any sense?
14:56 Brooke it's also waste when it is mailed back to central rather than just filled on the spot.
14:56 jcamins It does, but might be a little NP-complete.
14:56 rhcl_asm I just wonke up, may I ask the subject?
14:56 rhcl_asm woke
14:57 jcamins rhcl_asm: return routing.
14:57 Brooke HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn
14:57 wahanui hmmm... HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn is being used two different ways in AddReturn
14:57 sekjal rhcl: working on handling circ returns in a multi-branch environ
14:58 rhcl_asm think google circles--we have a route driver for an "external" consortial group, and we have our own intra-branch deliveries.
14:58 rhcl_asm there, my contribution
14:59 kf sekjal: have you seen the floating collection patch?
14:59 Brooke the first domino is yes or no though
14:59 kf and I think weighting was part of the planned holds rewirte?
14:59 Brooke yes, we will take this piece of material
14:59 kf I think I have seen bugs for this.
14:59 Brooke no, we won't bring it back to the home library
14:59 Brooke so that is certainly "right"
14:59 brendan_ripon left #koha
14:59 kf bug 7144
14:59 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7144 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, srdjan, ASSIGNED , Floating collection
15:00 Brooke question 2 would be a table with confirmation
15:01 Brooke which is where a neat chat window or good relationships within a consortium would come in handy
15:01 Brooke back in the olden days
15:01 Brooke I used to telephone for ILLs
15:01 Brooke "Hey, they returned this to me, can I send it on to X Library? Cause one of _their_ Patrons wants it now."
15:02 Brooke the only time people seem to get a bee in their bonnet
15:02 Brooke in this context
15:02 Brooke is when you have a bestseller
15:02 Brooke that functionally never sees its home library
15:02 Brooke so there should be an itemtype thinger
15:02 sekjal sorry, phone
15:02 sekjal will look at 7144
15:02 Brooke that checks to ensure that newer stuff might not be subject to a hold or transfer.
15:03 sekjal because I do need the functionality wherein, depending on item type and homebranch, the item either stays at the return location, or goes home
15:04 Brooke that's part of it
15:04 Brooke but it's not the whole
15:05 Brooke things are even trickier if you effectively have a central library and branches operating within a consortium
15:05 Brooke they might have floating collections within their own island
15:05 Brooke but they might not want their stuff going outside of their moana
15:07 kf sekjal: sounds like floating should be a circ matrix thing?
15:07 nengard joined #koha
15:08 kf without borrower category
15:08 sekjal kf:  I believe so
15:08 sekjal since it's a return, who had it is not likely to be important
15:08 sekjal though, quote123 will factor in
15:09 kf true
15:11 sekjal so, for question 1, what would acceptable values be?
15:11 sekjal by question 1, I mean "where am I allowed to return this book?"
15:11 Brooke that's interesting
15:11 Brooke when you phrase it that way
15:11 Brooke there's a gradient
15:11 sekjal some possibilities:  homebranch, issuingbranch, homebranch OR issuingbranch, anywhere
15:12 Brooke when you have "Can I return this here?" it's a toggle.
15:12 rhcl_asm Tweeting #MPLD
15:12 trea left #koha
15:12 sekjal anywhere "on the same network as the homebranch", for some definition thereof
15:12 Brooke do we want to lose the first lock?
15:12 kf sekjal: homebranch, issuingbranch, patron's home branch?, holding branch
15:12 Brooke I mean your way might well be better
15:12 kf oh
15:12 kf and anywhere
15:13 trea joined #koha
15:13 kf perhaps we need soemthing with checkboxes
15:13 sekjal oh, right, patron home branch could be different than home or issuing
15:13 kf so you can combine
15:13 kf make it a list
15:13 Brooke 0/ trea
15:14 trea hi Brooke
15:14 Brooke I'm just trying to figure out how you would deal with an anti social Library or collection
15:14 Brooke cause I was always like "ya! Lend that.:
15:14 sekjal would it ever be a problem to return a book to the library that owns it?
15:14 Brooke oh wait, that's Local History / Rare, no freggin way."
15:14 Brooke no
15:14 Brooke or else we're in big trouble
15:15 sekjal I mean, shouldn't homebranch ALWAYS be okay?
15:15 Brooke yes
15:15 kf hm
15:15 Brooke it might be immediately sent to Guam
15:15 kf if it's been given to the holding branch as a kind of collection
15:15 Brooke but that's a risk we've to take ;)
15:15 kf supposed to stay there for a while
15:15 Brooke Cait I think we're thinking alike
15:15 kf I might not want it to be returned anywhere else thatn the holding branch
15:15 kf uhoh
15:15 kf ;)
15:15 Brooke :)
15:16 sekjal oh geeze, now we're bringing in a new question
15:16 sekjal we have o
15:16 sekjal sorry
15:16 Brooke yeah it seems like there has to be some sort of time based expiry jobby
15:16 sekjal we have "owning library", and "possessing library"
15:16 kf possessing = has it right now?
15:16 Brooke like hey, I just sent this floating St. Patrick's display over to Pine Hills
15:16 sekjal kf:  yes
15:16 Brooke even though the books are from Main
15:16 Brooke I don't want em back again
15:16 Brooke so send em back to Pine Hills.
15:17 Brooke some people are like
15:17 Brooke meh
15:17 Brooke they can stay at Main
15:17 Brooke then we know how successful the display was..
15:17 sekjal do we need a third level of "temporary home library"?  for things sent away from their owners for an extended visit?
15:17 Brooke I think that's what the floating collection thing is meant to address, but doesn't quite yet as specced.
15:18 Brooke the description is scant though
15:18 Brooke so I might well be misinterpreting it.
15:20 kf sekjal: rotating collections I think - was supposed to do that
15:21 kf sekjal: the files are still in koha, but there were some bugs with it, so it's not displayed...
15:21 sekjal yeah, that's a pre-3.2 feature, so I think it needs a pretty big overhaul to make it work
15:21 kf I am not sure building anything on the current system wil work out really
15:21 kf having a rewrite for the holds is perhaps the way to go - thought it was kinda planned?
15:21 Brooke there's a difference between an individual item
15:21 Brooke and a floating collection though
15:22 sekjal kf:  yeah, the holds rewrite will factor into this, as well
15:22 Brooke the stuff I pull off of bookmobile
15:22 Brooke is different
15:22 sekjal I'm mostly considering cases where holds aren't involved, though, at least for right now
15:22 Brooke from the stuff I'd borrow directly.
15:22 kf book mobiles are entirely differnt
15:22 kf I was told
15:22 kf people wnat a "bus stop management module" for that
15:22 Guest18734 O.O
15:22 kf so, when you only get to a bus stop once every 3 weeks, the due dates should be calculated accordingly
15:22 Guest18734 is now known as wizzyrea
15:22 Brooke but there's still a difference between a collection
15:23 Brooke and an individual one off
15:23 kf being able to set up circulation rules by bus stop, while your items are all at the bus as a home library...
15:23 Brooke I'd return this where it belongs, but I've a screaming child in the car, so it's going to this branch.
15:23 kf hi wizzyrea
15:23 Brooke 0/
15:24 libsysguy joined #koha
15:24 Brooke wb
15:24 libsysguy 0/
15:24 Brooke I think the ratio overall
15:24 Brooke is more favourable than scattering
15:25 Brooke so in excess of about 80% of materials are just returned "normally"
15:25 Brooke at least from what I've experienced.
15:25 sekjal idea:  a complete "temporary item record" for any given item
15:25 Brooke but someone someplace big like NYPL might have a whole different story to tell.
15:25 sekjal so you can change some aspect of the record for a while, then go back
15:25 sekjal possible use cases:
15:25 sekjal floating collections
15:26 sekjal 'new' or 'featured' items on in a different shelving location
15:26 Brooke how much of a load would that produce?
15:26 sekjal course reserves
15:26 sekjal Brooke:  I think it could be done with minimal system load
15:26 sekjal mostly just increase storage
15:26 * Brooke nods.
15:30 rhcl_asm so sad - nobody following me?
15:30 sekjal so, a new table, temp_items or items_backup
15:30 sekjal and a mechanism to push values in there, and pull them back out
15:30 wizzyrea rhcl- on what?
15:30 rhcl_asm twitter
15:31 rhcl_asm #MPLD
15:33 wizzyrea there, feel better? :)
15:33 wizzyrea well you're not following anybody
15:33 kf sekjal: I think we talked about that in nz :) I like it
15:33 kf sekjal: perhaps better have a backup table? easier to fit in into current workflow?
15:33 rhcl_asm I'm at a meeting
15:33 wizzyrea sekjal: batch edit could probably do that
15:34 sekjal extending the idea... why just backup items?  why not biblios?
15:34 sekjal how many libraries have run into a situation where someone accidentally overwrites a record with something else?
15:34 nengard left #koha
15:35 sekjal wouldn't it be handy to have a quick 'revert' option there?
15:35 wizzyrea well they are kind of backed up in the action logs
15:35 wizzyrea you can at least see the changes
15:35 kf sekjal: I think a first step here would be to make use of our deleted_* tables again
15:35 kf I was told earlier version had features to bring back things from there... but it got broken
15:35 wizzyrea well a revert would be awesomes
15:35 kf undo deletions
15:35 kf we have the information
15:35 kf but not a way to do it
15:35 wizzyrea ^^
15:36 sekjal what we'd need here is not just the last version, or a deleted version, but all versions from initial creation to now
15:36 sekjal so, basically, a git log
15:36 Brooke oh wow
15:36 wizzyrea revision history
15:37 wizzyrea wordpress has such a thing.
15:37 wizzyrea but you also need a way to dump the history.
15:37 sekjal if we kept biblio revision history in a git-like way, we could easily share changes to biblios across libraries
15:37 * Brooke thinks Sekjal intends to cast MassRes for Records.
15:38 Brooke nice
15:39 kf sekjal: I am not sure if this is going a step too far
15:40 kf sekjal: there is an option right now to turn on logging of changes...
15:40 kf perhaps we could go from that?
15:40 rhcl_asm are they doing it in secret? no, open discussion at MPLD (Missouri Public Library Directors meeting -where I'm at)
15:40 kf store the log in a useful way, make it possible to undo steps
15:42 * sekjal looks at where this started, and where it's wound up, and wonders how he's going to get this feature coded any time this decade
15:42 oleonard rhcl_asm: Just wondered why that should be "off"
15:44 rhcl_asm ya, probably wasn't necessary. I'm passing notes, tweeting, and trying to follow an active discussion.
15:44 * chris_n sees oleonard survived "the chair" yesterday :)
15:45 rhcl_asm @seen gmcharlt
15:45 huginn rhcl_asm: gmcharlt was last seen in #koha 20 hours, 13 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <gmcharlt> cait: idempotent means that if you repeat an operation more than once, nothing changes
15:45 kf I asked something, he popped in, answered it and left again :)
15:45 oleonard chris_n: The dentist is usually quite kind to me
15:46 chris_n 'idempotent' usage example: "Arguing with PTFS is idempotent"
15:47 * chris_n better check the part of speech :)
15:48 chris_n oleonard: I'm glad for you; they always seem to be driving for china when numbing me up... 8-P
15:51 rhcl_asm chris_n: == funny
15:54 jcamins Is there any context in which end-of-subfield punctuation is significant in an authorized heading?
15:54 francharb left #koha
15:56 * chris_n wishes they'd do away with end-of-(sub)field punctuation... period
15:56 * jcamins too.
15:56 chris_n folks are constantly asking me what it is there for
15:57 * wizzyrea recalls the library that systematically removed it - and then had to put it back when they came into our catalog >.<
15:57 * chris_n has used some regexps to strip it out when printing labels
15:57 chris_n which helps make everybody happy some of the time :-)
15:59 * chris_n reminds peps that we do control #koha-news over on freenode; huginn hangs out there and posts koha news as it occurs in case you are interested
16:00 wizzyrea nice!
16:01 * magnuse thinks mixing punctuation and data is evil
16:02 kf yep
16:02 kf it is
16:03 kf wizzyrea: I think if we made isbd and some other views work without... we could strip them....
16:03 francharb joined #koha
16:03 kf it's only some things look ugly now without the stupid punctuation
16:07 * Brooke hugs francharb
16:11 reiveune bye
16:11 reiveune left #koha
16:11 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 7282] invalid language selection <[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7282>
16:15 * chris_n rids himself of another $0.02
16:15 maximep anyone ever had an error saying all.pref not found when doing a system preferences search?
16:16 maximep am i supposed to have all.pref?
16:16 kf hm no
16:16 kf and never heard of all pref
16:16 oleonard PTFS continues to do all its communicating in the form of comments on 3rd party blog posts​emplar-of-stupid-koha-vs-liblime-trademark/
16:16 kf chris_n: I think I disagree here - and I am really hoping peopel without local changes are on the same db version
16:17 oleonard Sorry, http://diligentroom.wordpress.[…]iblime-trademark/
16:17 kf chris_n: because everything else will make helping people impossible
16:18 chris_n kf: with the new system the "admin" or whatever, may choose to apply or reject any update
16:18 chris_n so...
16:18 chris_n there will be a greater chance that divergence will occur
16:18 asaurat auf wiedersehen!
16:18 kf but he shouldn't
16:18 * francharb hugs Brooke
16:18 chris_n it may not
16:18 francharb ;)
16:18 kf and we shouldn't tell him it's a good idea
16:18 kf or leave the impression it is
16:18 chris_n but the possibility is increased
16:18 kf yeah
16:19 kf which is what I don't like about the idea :(
16:19 kf I like having numbers and I like having a chance of everyone being on the same database structure
16:19 asaurat left #koha
16:20 * chris_n personally does not see that it is possible to reduce the risk given the additional "surface area" non-linear updates will add to that
16:21 julian_m left #koha
16:21 chris_n requiring every update would render non-linear updates pointless unless I've missed something
16:23 jcamins Ah, maybe Periodicals can be both subfield x and subfield v?
16:25 jcamins Maybe not. Maps?
16:27 Brooke left #koha
16:27 jcamins No.
16:27 jcamins Bibliography?
16:28 chris_n jcamins: ?
16:28 chris_n feeling ok?
16:28 * chris_n notes you're chatting with yourself ;-)
16:28 jcamins chris_n: I'm trying to find an example of two headings that are identical except for the subdivision code.
16:29 jcamins So, like, $aWizards$vBibliography and $aWizards$xBibliography.
16:29 kf chris_n: I think the intended use was for 'local' things
16:29 kf chris_n: not skipping things in general
16:30 * chris_n just got finished badmouthing MARC with a colleague
16:30 jcamins chris_n: for good reason. Do you have an example of that?
16:30 chris_n kf: I agree, but there are no guarantees once the lid is off of that pandora's box
16:31 chris_n jcamins: not without digging through the catalog
16:31 jcamins chris_n: nor do I.
16:31 chris_n kf: and the most responsible thing we can do is ensure track-ability
16:31 chris_n and to me it seems hashes do a fantastic job
16:32 jcamins Agreed.
16:32 jcamins I put in my vote for hashes ages ago.
16:33 * chris_n would like to hear gmcharlt 's $0.02 on the subject
16:33 kf can't we have both?
16:33 kf a hash and a number to be displayed?
16:33 kf so people ilke me can ask: which of your numbers are red and have exploded?
16:34 ago43 left #koha
16:34 chris_n kf: but how would you determine what "version number" to display
16:34 kf the last applied with a link to the page
16:34 kf perhaps
16:34 chris_n if I have a,b,c applied and you have a,b,z applied what version are we at?
16:34 kf or the last applied and failed updates in () behind that
16:35 kf z = local change? because I think they will only be local, not having a number
16:35 chris_n probably displaying the most recent "sync'd" db version number would be the best we could do
16:35 kf or that
16:35 chris_n no, z being a change you like, and I don't
16:35 matts is now known as matts_away
16:36 kf with a hash + local changes - the hashes will never match, so I will have no idea where the person is in a general view?
16:36 kf I think it's insane to not do the updates... but if you wanted to do that, I couldn't stop you
16:36 kf and that's where I think this is idea is not good
16:36 kf but, a lot of people seemed to like it
16:36 kf ...
16:36 kf so.
16:36 chris_n I think the probability of that happening is small, but real
16:37 chris_n and so must be accounted for
16:37 kf well, if you tell me you have done local changes, I will tell you: you are not runnign koha, I can't help.
16:38 kf sorry, but i am worried about this :(
16:38 ago43 joined #koha
16:38 chris_n we could always "enforce"  the application of "community-wide" changes....
16:39 chris_n paul_p about?
16:39 jcamins chris_n: he's training a library, I think.
16:39 paul_p chris_n, yes ?
16:39 jcamins Or not.
16:40 paul_p jcamins, don't play your wahanui !!!
16:40 paul_p (frenchism suspected)
16:40 chris_n paul_p: will someone doing a normal release upgrade have the option of applying db updates via the admin/ interface
16:40 paul_p chris_n, yep
16:41 jcamins paul_p: I thought you said yesterday you were training today.
16:41 chris_n so it is possible that someone could "choose" not to run db update X?
16:41 chris_n for whatever insane reason
16:41 paul_p chris_n, yep, except he will be switched back to this page (from everytime he tries to "fake" Koha
16:41 paul_p so, in fact, no real choice...
16:42 paul_p jcamins, I had a meeting this morning, not a training
16:42 jcamins paul_p: in other words, the only way to avoid installing updates would be to modify the code?
16:42 chris_n so why wouldn't we just apply all db changes automagically during an upgrade?
16:42 jcamins paul_p: I knew you were away *somewhere*.
16:42 chris_n and not even open the door for potential "skips"
16:42 sekjal maybe I'm being dense or forgetful (wouldn't be the first time).  but what problems are we looking to solve with the change in updatedatabase method?
16:42 chris_n paul_p: the non-linear application is really for devs (which includes "in-house" mods), right?
16:43 chris_n sekjal: I "think" it is really a development problem
16:43 paul_p chris_n, could be an improvement, you're right. But doing this silently seems a bad idea.
16:43 chris_n not a "average user" problem
16:43 paul_p He could just have the option to "apply" (all updates)
16:43 paul_p so, he could see what has been made
16:44 sekjal problems I see:  we cannot 'downgrade' a database as we can downgrade code
16:44 chris_n no rollback
16:44 paul_p sekjal, nothing new here. It's already the case.
16:44 sekjal we also have a hard time switching from master to stable once we're down the release cycle a ways
16:44 paul_p sekjal, why ? (the hard time)
16:45 sekjal paul_p:  if master has introduced a complex database change that has not been committed to stable
16:45 sekjal then we don't have a way to undo that change
16:45 sekjal like the fix for bug 6328
16:45 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6328 major, PATCH-Sent, ---, paul.poulain, ASSIGNED , Fine in days does not work
16:45 jcamins sekjal: the problem we're trying to solve is that with updatedatabase working as it does, there's a disincentive to testing the interaction of two patches.
16:45 jcamins sekjal: that's no different from the situation now.
16:46 sekjal okay, so it looks like I'm thinking about problems that are outside the scope of this proposed change
16:46 paul_p jcamins++
16:46 paul_p right
16:46 chris_n right
16:46 kf sekjal: running from master is dangerous
16:46 paul_p (plus, the more I think of it, the more I think running master is a perillious idea...)
16:46 sekjal so, the problem we're trying to solve is encouraging folks to test two patches in conjunction?
16:46 kf in my opinion
16:46 * chris_n thinks this move is one step to a full solution
16:46 kf not sure we should make that easier
16:46 paul_p kf, all bywater customers run master...
16:46 sekjal kf: its certainly a lot of work
16:47 * chris_n runs from master every time he can get away with it ;-)
16:47 jcamins sekjal: and when I say "disincentive" I mean "I, at least, ignore all changes that might conflict, instead letting them bitrot, because I don't have the time nor ability to handle any sort of complex testing."
16:47 kf paul_p: I know, but I am not sure it's a good plan
16:47 jcamins kf: we want people to test multiple patches, and spot problems *before* something's been pushed to Master.
16:47 paul_p kf, agreed
16:47 jcamins kf: oh, you mean running Master?
16:48 kf I think if we want to have an undo option
16:48 jcamins This change doesn't make it easier or harder to run master.
16:48 chris_n kf: paul_p has cleared up the question
16:48 paul_p jcamins, yes, she means that
16:48 kf it needs to be a separate sql or pl file
16:48 jcamins kf: I agree with you about running Master.
16:48 kf which means making it harder to submit database changes
16:48 sekjal kf: we at ByWater looking at changing that particular policy; meeting is schedule for Monday
16:48 jcamins Undo is not included in paul_p's proposal.
16:48 chris_n undo is only relevant to development
16:48 kf sekjal: I didn#t want to offend you - it's only a personal opinion
16:48 chris_n not to production
16:48 sekjal kf: no offense taken
16:49 * chris_n wonders who would want to "undo" a patch sequence on a production box?
16:49 paul_p my feeling is that having a few/some libraries should/could running master is good.
16:49 jcamins chris_n: I'd prefer not to speculate.
16:49 chris_n paul_p: we basically run master
16:49 paul_p *if* they know what they're running & are ready to face some problems sometimes
16:49 chris_n and assume the liability involved
16:49 paul_p chris_n++
16:50 sekjal my proposal for updating updatedatabase was to introduce a three-command API
16:50 kf yeah, but having an undo button... means inviting it
16:50 sekjal CHECK, DO, and UNDO
16:50 chris_n but that's because /me is here to "fix it" when it breaks
16:50 jcamins kf: no undo button.
16:50 chris_n git is my "undo"
16:50 paul_p (i'm speaking as BibLibre here : we're thinking of proposing to a few of our libraries to run master. But only wisely choosen ones)
16:50 jcamins I think.
16:50 jcamins paul_p: did you propose an undo feature?
16:50 jcamins If so, I missed that.
16:50 paul_p jcamins, no.
16:51 chris_n I think an undo feature would involve backup up the db prior to application
16:51 paul_p and I think it's almost impossible to have an undo sometimes.
16:51 jcamins Agreed.
16:51 sekjal paul_p:  sometimes
16:51 sekjal it can be lossy
16:51 chris_n with a db backup and git, undo is very possible
16:51 chris_n been there, done that
16:51 jcamins I mean, undo would be really cool, but something to consider in the future.
16:51 sekjal but if you're reverting to an earlier code state, you DB state must match
16:51 kf paul_p: we started our first koha libraries on a version of master too - because of some sip things we needed, thoroughly tested it before that and updated to stable later
16:51 kf so I can understand why someone wants it
16:51 chris_n sekjal: hence my statement about backing up first
16:51 kf andit can work too
16:52 sekjal chris_n:  yes, backups++
16:52 chris_n so 1) backup db 2) apply update 3)things are screwed up 4) restore backup 5)git revert 6) everyone's happy
16:53 chris_n maybe we should just integrate koha and git :-)
16:53 sekjal git-based backups
16:53 chris_n yup
16:53 sekjal I've been interested in doing that for a while
16:53 chris_n a git hook
16:53 sekjal tried at my previous institution
16:53 sekjal immediately ate up all the RAM
16:53 * jcamins thinks that might be git-or-miss.
16:53 chris_n ie before git am or git rebase, we backup
16:53 sekjal because I did it naively
16:54 sekjal jcamins: ::groan::
16:54 jcamins :D
16:54 chris_n lol
16:54 wizzyrea git or miss. awesome.
16:54 chris_n heya wizzyrea
16:54 wahanui I LIKE SCIENCE!
16:54 jcamins wizzyrea?
16:54 wahanui I LIKE SCIENCE!
16:55 chris_n wahanui: I LIKE GIT!
16:55 wahanui chris_n: excuse me?
16:55 wizzyrea bg?
16:55 wizzyrea rangi?
16:55 jcamins chris_n is <reply> I LIKE GIT!
16:55 wizzyrea natec
16:55 jcamins chris_n?
16:55 wahanui chris_n is probably release maintainer for 3.2, 3.4, and 3.6.
16:55 wizzyrea natec?
16:55 wahanui I LIKE SPACE AND MY WIFE
16:55 wizzyrea chris_n is also <reply> I LIKE GIT
16:55 wahanui okay, wizzyrea.
16:55 wizzyrea chris_n?
16:55 wahanui chris_n is release maintainer for 3.2, 3.4, and 3.6. or <reply> I LIKE GIT
16:55 wizzyrea hm no
16:56 * wizzyrea whispers sweet nothings into wahanui's ear
16:56 talljoy is now known as talljoy_lunch
16:57 * chris_n also likes lunch
16:57 sekjal mmm, lunch
16:58 chris_n paul_p: perhaps we should auto apply the updates and then display what updates were applied
16:58 chris_n that may avoid upgrade confusion
16:58 chris_n with that note, I'm off to lunch with my 5yr old
16:58 sekjal I like that Koha automatically applies all the applicable updates to the DB
16:58 paul_p chris_n, may be a good idea.
16:58 wizzyrea :D
16:58 * jcamins doesn't see how there's a change between the existing system and that proposal.
16:58 sekjal I wouldn't want that to change
16:58 paul_p maybe we could do that is DEBUG=0, and let the user choose if DEBUG=1
16:59 jcamins You enter your password, and then you wait.
16:59 jcamins If you hack the code to get around the webinstaller, that's your funeral.
16:59 wizzyrea well a choice to "apply all" by default, and a "see details" (like osx does) would be good
16:59 chris_n wizzyrea++
16:59 wizzyrea those that are curious can see what the changes will be, those that don't care can just click through
17:00 chris_n ok, lunch for real this time :)
17:00 sekjal seeing the updates before upgrading (optionally) is a good feature
17:00 * wizzyrea knows that's more work
17:00 kf system preference!
17:00 wahanui system preference is ReservesMaxPickUpDelay
17:00 * kf goes to hide
17:01 sekjal add a fourth API call to databaseupdate:  DESCRIPTION
17:01 sekjal so, each database update must include a check method (is this even necessary), a do method (like we have), and undo (revert the change) and a description (display a textual summary of what this is set to accomplish)
17:02 Guillaume1 left #koha
17:02 wizzyrea or at least a link to the bug
17:03 sekjal that could be by convention
17:03 sekjal "for more info, see bug xxxx"
17:03 wizzyrea that's just like MS does with windows updates, they always reference the KB article
17:03 wizzyrea with a link
17:03 sekjal but this API would let us auto upgrade (if code version > db version) AND auto downgrade (if code version < db version)
17:04 wizzyrea right
17:04 sekjal we could so check if the update is already applied (and skip if so)
17:04 sekjal s/so/also/
17:04 sophie_m left #koha
17:04 wizzyrea do and iterate :)
17:04 wizzyrea lots of this stuff can be added
17:05 sekjal description method would let us preview changes before committing
17:05 sekjal and perhaps an additional button could be added "backup DB before applying"
17:05 wizzyrea ^^ I like that idea
17:05 wizzyrea the button would probably also put the catalog in maintenance mode
17:05 melia joined #koha
17:05 wizzyrea I guess the install already does that
17:06 sekjal tie that in with some other automatic backup code
17:06 sekjal we so need to get the Task Scheduler working through the staff client again....
17:07 jcamins I feel like this is not leading to a net simplification of the development and testing process.
17:07 kf nope
17:07 rangi sup peeps
17:07 sekjal is such simplification even possible?
17:07 rhcl_asm </#MPLD>
17:07 sekjal sup, rangi
17:08 rhcl_asm meeting over, I'm outta here
17:08 rhcl_asm left #koha
17:08 magnuse ata marie rangi
17:09 kf hi rangi
17:09 kf can we concentrate on getting something that works and will not break things in?
17:10 kf so we can get bug fixes into master again?
17:10 kf and 3.4?
17:10 wahanui it has been said that 3.4 is still on schedule
17:10 kf hm 3.6 I mean
17:10 jcamins sekjal: well, I would think that paul_p's original proposal would simplify it.
17:10 jcamins Developers don't have to write any additional code (compared to now) to make a database change, and testers have a much simpler time of applying database updates they're testing, and checking for interactions.
17:10 jcamins 3.6?
17:10 wahanui 3.6 is more relevant
17:10 jcamins Heh.
17:11 sekjal jcamins:  I think I need to reread the proposal... it seems like we're getting off track from that, and into an overly-complex change
17:12 jcamins sekjal: agreed.
17:12 sekjal something that's introducing a lot of overhead and instability for very little gain
17:12 magnuse kf++
17:12 paul_p jcamins, right: the new system is ++ for devs. It has also some additional pluses, like being able to see the result of an updatedatabase at anytime. For support, it's a big + !
17:12 ago43 is now known as ago43_lunch
17:12 jcamins paul_p: a good point.
17:13 sekjal I repeat my recommendation of waiting until 3.8 to deploy this, in order to give us adequate time to test
17:13 * sekjal hates rushing anything
17:13 paul_p It also ease managing 2 versions, as I can push something that will be only in 3.8 without causing any trouble to 3.6 update & customers
17:14 kf paul_p: I can agree on those 2 points
17:14 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 7282] invalid language selection <[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7282>
17:14 paul_p sekjal, we've tested it a lot. We use this mechanism in production for our customers, chris_n signed it off. I don't feel we're hurrying
17:14 kf paul_p: seeing the updates later on is nice - I only don't want to encourage people doing stupid thigns - like skipping updates they don't understand
17:15 paul_p (and I'm OK to wait for your/marcel QA validation)
17:15 francharb is now known as francharb_afk
17:15 sekjal I think I've got too low of blood sugar right now to fully comprehend the recommendation, the patch, and all the details. I shall eat now
17:16 jcamins kf: I don't think you can skip an update.
17:18 jcamins (at least, not one that's marked as required) Right, paul_p?
17:19 trea anybody know what the upper limit to display items to delete in the batch item deletion tool?
17:19 trea it looks like past a certain point it simply says "there's too many to display"
17:19 larryb left #koha
17:20 rangi trea: 1000
17:21 trea thanks rangi
17:21 trea does batch item deletion check for holds and fines? i'm guessing it probably dos.
17:22 trea s/dos/does
17:22 oleonard So optimistic!
17:22 trea hope springs eternal, as they say
17:22 rangi ill look
17:24 rangi it calls DelItemCheck
17:25 rangi which checks onloan
17:25 rangi and if it has waiting reserve
17:25 trea rangi++
17:25 rangi but if you have reserve/hold that isnt waiting, but is itemlevel
17:25 rangi that wont stop it
17:26 rangi does that help?
17:26 trea yes, i believe so
17:26 trea thanks for checking
17:26 ago43_lunch is now known as ago43
17:27 rangi C4::Items DelItemCheck
17:27 rangi if you want to check
17:30 trea okay, i see the sub now. thanks for pointing that out.
17:31 rangi i think the sub could be updated to check a few more things
17:32 rangi fredericd: are you about?
17:34 rangi for 7282 should the regexp be $lang =~ s/[^a-zA-Z_-]*//g;  (with the g?)
17:42 jcamins is now known as jcamins_away
17:43 paul_p rangi, & trea I think we've made some improvements. trea, drop a mail to christophe.croullebois at, he could tell you
17:43 paul_p time to go back home. bye & see you tomorrow !
17:44 rangi cya paul_p
17:50 magnuse huh, how do i figure out what SMS::Send::* modules exist? searching CPAN gives very few results...
17:50 rangi thats about how many exist
17:50 rangi not a lot
17:50 magnuse ah
17:51 kf I think one is in koha of those, somewhere?
17:51 magnuse oh wait, this gave a number of hits:[…]SMS%3A%3ASend&s=1
17:51 paul_p left #koha
17:52 magnuse sunno why i wasn't getting more then 2 at first...
17:52 kf ok, time to leave
17:52 kf bye all
17:52 kf left #koha
17:52 wizzyrea by--- bother!
17:53 rangi hmm yeah more than when i last looked
17:53 oleonard s'okay wizzyrea, she'll be back
17:53 magnuse tw = taiwan? seems to be a lot of those...
17:53 rangi yup
17:54 wizzyrea not like some OTHER people I know who are so fast on the exit button you can't ever catch them
17:54 rangi big mobile phone users/producers
17:54 * wizzyrea looks at oleonard
17:54 sekjal magnuse:  I believe list of SMS::Send::* modules are in the Koha manual somewhere
17:55 magnuse ah
17:55 oleonard wizzyrea: Next time I'll way for your goodbye. If I don't receive it I'll just stay at work.
17:55 wizzyrea noooo
17:56 trea lol
17:56 wizzyrea I just like to say goodbye is all ;)
17:56 magnuse sekjal: http://manual.koha-community.o[…]html#smsnoticefaq "Some common options in the US (that have Perl drivers) are..."
17:56 talljoy_lunch is now known as talljoy
18:12 cait joined #koha
18:12 cait back
18:15 rangi wb cait
18:16 tcohen joined #koha
18:16 ago43 is now known as ago43_phone
18:16 tcohen hi #koha
18:17 tcohen is there any demo site
18:17 tcohen with koha/solr ?
18:19 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 7282] invalid language selection <[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7282>
18:29 adminacct joined #koha
18:29 adminacct is now known as indradg
18:41 ago43_phone is now known as ago43
18:55 magnuse is now known as magnus_afk
18:56 rangi fredericd++
18:56 rangi semarie++
18:57 cait yep
18:57 cait fredericd++ semarie++
18:59 edveal is now known as edveal-lunch
19:06 tcohen is there any work on having idfferent type of circulation rules for different items on a record?
19:07 cait you can use different itemtypes
19:07 tcohen i mean, not item type-based but configurable per item
19:07 cait for each item on your record
19:07 cait like how?
19:07 indradg left #koha
19:07 cait can you give an example?
19:07 tcohen you have three items
19:07 tcohen have a circulation rule for each of them
19:07 cait um
19:07 tcohen but having all them listed as 'books' (itemtype)
19:08 rangi @quote get 123
19:08 cait itemtypes
19:08 huginn rangi: Quote #123: "rangi: #thingsihavelearnt if there is a mad scheme a library somewhere will be doing it ... except madder" (added by wizzyrea at 09:20 PM, March 30, 2011)
19:08 rangi use itemtypes
19:08 cait I think most people misjudge itemtypes
19:08 cait it does not have to be the type of the item
19:08 rangi and use the collectioncode for books
19:08 cait you can put that into collections
19:08 rangi what cait said
19:08 cait what rangi says
19:08 cait hehe
19:08 rangi lol
19:08 cait have itemtypes like: not for loan, 4 weeks, short loan, overnight only
19:09 jcamins_away cait: bug 7284
19:09 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7284 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, NEW , Authority matching algorithm improvements
19:09 cait jcamins_away: thx, reading now
19:09 jcamins_away Thanks!
19:11 tcohen rangi: collectioncode should be filled with things like 'book', 'magazine', etc
19:11 tcohen right?
19:11 indradg joined #koha
19:12 rangi it can be filled with whatever you want
19:12 cait what he says
19:12 rangi the same with itemtype
19:12 rangi its just that itemtype is used to control circ rules
19:12 cait you have to find out what you want to display at item level and choose the fields accordingly
19:12 cait and... listen to rangi
19:12 tcohen I have a record, that contains a DVD and a book
19:13 jcamins_away listening_to_rangi++
19:13 tcohen at item level i'd like to have them listed as DVD and book accordingly
19:13 tcohen i've been using itemtypes to express that
19:13 wizzyrea I'd use ccode for that
19:13 wizzyrea we use itypes in exactly the way they are describing
19:14 maximep cait and rangi make a good support duo... completing each other phrases :p
19:14 sekjal tcohen: do the two things have different circulation behaviours?
19:14 wizzyrea itypes are more like "rule types"
19:14 sekjal that is, to DVDs loan differently than books?
19:14 tcohen hi wizzyrea
19:14 rangi maximep: this is a FAQ almost, we should write it up
19:14 tcohen sekjal: of course :-D
19:14 sekjal if they loan differently, then they'll need different item types
19:14 wizzyrea *nod*
19:14 tcohen and different DVD's have different circ rules too!!
19:15 wizzyrea you can make different itypes for each type of dvd that circs in a different way
19:15 cait than perhaps you might want to consider having item types for kinds of circ rules
19:15 wizzyrea example: DVD - New Release
19:15 wizzyrea = short loan period
19:16 wizzyrea DVD = gets longer loan period
19:16 cait or
19:16 cait itemtype: short loan > collection dvd
19:16 wizzyrea the point is - itypes go with the circ rules
19:16 cait and locations and collections do not
19:16 wizzyrea ^^
19:17 wizzyrea but all are arbitrary - you can name them however you want
19:17 wizzyrea make senes?
19:17 wizzyrea sense*
19:17 tcohen wizzyrea: i'm just in fear LOL
19:17 edveal-lunch is now known as edveal
19:17 wizzyrea also is to say: koha doesn't need any modification to work the way you want it to, your data does . ;)
19:17 tcohen just got it wrong for a long time...
19:18 wizzyrea all good, we have batch edit now ^.^
19:19 tcohen I'll move my item-types/kind of material to CCODE (or whatever I choose to use)
19:19 tcohen and let itemtypes to mean circulation rule applying
19:20 tcohen thanks everyone
19:21 Phlunk3 joined #koha
19:28 wizzyrea yw, gl
19:34 maximep I can't find how to translate the text "NOTE: you can only choose one source" in the system preferences. Anyone did it ?
19:35 maximep in 3.6
19:36 oleonard maximep: Was that not picked up for translation by the translation tool?
19:36 maximep tried msgid "enhanced_content.pref## <strong>NOTE"
19:36 maximep can't find it in fr-FR at least
19:36 maximep didn't try doing a translate update
19:37 cait ah
19:37 cait it refers to covers
19:38 cait it's not in a pref, somewhere above or beyond I think
19:38 cait iirc
19:38 cait you can only have one source for cover images
19:38 cait check the enhanced content pref page
19:38 maximep I know what it is and what it does
19:38 maximep just can't translate it
19:39 cait it's not in the po file?
19:39 maximep nope
19:39 maximep translate update didn't seem to catch it either
19:39 cait have yo utried only searching for NOTE?
19:39 oleonard The file in question is intranet-tmpl/prog/fr-FR/modules/adm​in/preferences/enhanced_content.pref
19:41 cait maximep: I see it, it's not translated for me either, perhaps because it's not part of a system preference
19:41 maximep yeah, that's the problem
19:41 cait maximep: little bug in the tool getting the strings for translation
19:41 maximep ok
19:41 maximep but can't do it manually either
19:42 maximep translate install doesn't catch it
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19:42 nengard got a reservior question in training
19:42 cait yep, the script extracting the strings is probably mssing it
19:42 nengard it looks like the reservoir is getting filled with records imported using z39.50
19:42 cait yep
19:42 nengard what are these? the search results of our z searches?
19:42 cait it imports I think the first 10 of each search you do
19:42 cait yes
19:42 cait there is a bug explaining that
19:42 jcamins_away nengard: yup.
19:42 maximep ok. iirc there's a bug for translation tool problems, right?
19:42 cait an old one
19:43 cait maximep: right
19:43 jcamins_away nengard: there's an open bug on that.
19:43 nengard so the reservoir gets filled up with z search results?
19:43 cait yes
19:43 nengard okay do you know which it is ? :) I'm gonna search for it
19:43 cait searching..
19:43 wahanui searching is not working
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19:43 cait[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3069
19:43 huginn Bug 3069: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Koha Z39.50 client process discussion
19:44 nengard yeah
19:44 nengard i found that one
19:45 maximep arg, can't find the bug
19:50 nengard back to training
19:50 nengard thanks al
19:50 nengard all
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19:53 cait maximep: which bug?
19:53 cait i don't think there is one for your problem yet
19:53 cait I would file a new bug
20:00 rangi bug 7072
20:00 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7072 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, fcapovilla, NEW , Use MARCAuthorityControlField008 to generate default 008 fields in AddAuthority
20:00 rangi i dont know enuff MARC voodooo to know if thats correct
20:01 cait hm
20:01 cait sounds good to me
20:01 cait if it works like that?
20:02 jcamins_away Hmmm... is that a MARC21-only block?
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20:02 cait oh good point
20:03 jcamins_away Because if it's not MARC21-only, I'd fail it until some sort of handling for UNIMARC defaults is provided.
20:03 * jcamins_away isn't at home, so can't check.
20:04 * rangi will leave it for the smart ppl to check
20:05 jcamins_away Useful looking patch, though.
20:05 jcamins_away rangi: any chance you could add me to the CC list?
20:05 rangi will do
20:06 jcamins_away Thanks.
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20:16 JesseM @wunder 06614
20:16 huginn JesseM: The current temperature in Brewer Stratford Marina, Stratford, Connecticut is 8.9�C (3:14 PM EST on December 01, 2011). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 24%. Dew Point: -11.0�C. Windchill: 5.0�C. Pressure: 30.13 in 1020.2 hPa (Steady).
20:24 oleonard Ha, whatever I just did to the js on, now it wants to automatically delete the order on reload :P
20:25 cait uh
20:25 cait are you trying to fix the minus?
20:26 cait or only all the js errors?
20:26 oleonard Actually Bug 7206, but I was trying a js menu
20:26 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7206 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , delete links in basket could use design work
20:27 cait ah
20:27 cait still a good deed!
20:27 sekjal rangi:  there doesn't seem to be a t/Circulation.t or t/db_dependent/Circulation.t
20:28 sekjal where would I put the unit test for a new C4/Circ subroutine
20:28 cait there is nothing for circ?
20:29 * cait wonders
20:29 cait thought we caught all at kohacon
20:30 sekjal it might be me and this headcold, but I can't see it if we've got it
20:32 cait hm I see
20:32 cait Circulation_barcodedecode.t
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20:33 sekjal ah ha! there it is
20:33 cait hm yes, but only for part of it? I guess
20:33 sekjal it's a different color in my terminal, and is blending in with other lines
20:33 sekjal yeah, so I guess just that subroutine
20:33 sekjal nothing for issues, renewals and returns
20:33 cait I think adding one for circulaton will probably be good
20:34 sekjal agreed
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20:36 oleonard Hey, didn't you hear #koha tell you guys to go play outside for a change?
20:36 cait in the darkness?
20:39 jcamins_away #koha doesn't care the time, apparently.
20:43 gmcharlt #koha is ALL the time
20:44 wizzyrea @quote add gmcharlt: #koha is ALL the time
20:44 huginn wizzyrea: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
20:44 wizzyrea humbug.
20:44 wizzyrea @quote get 23
20:44 huginn wizzyrea: Quote #23: "<gmcharlt> /msg huginn register nick password" (added by wizzyrea_ at 04:25 PM, August 06, 2009)
21:03 chris_n @quote add gmcharlt: #koha is ALL the time
21:03 huginn chris_n: The operation succeeded.  Quote #168 added.
21:03 wahanui i already had it that way, chris_n.
21:04 chris_n right wahanui, right
21:04 chris_n your always on top of it
21:04 jcamins_away @quote get 167
21:04 huginn jcamins_away: Quote #167: "<sekjal> yes, major project. very important" (added by chris_n at 07:58 PM, November 18, 2011)
21:04 chris_n arn't they all :)
21:05 jcamins_away They are indeed.
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21:14 melia is now known as melia_lunch
21:15 cait night all
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21:30 wizzyrea I guess there's no bug for what happens when you delete a bib that still has items with reserves on them
21:30 wizzyrea delete a bib + items
21:30 wizzyrea does this ring a bell for anybody?
21:30 oleonard It rings a vague indistinct bell
21:31 wizzyrea we're getting lots of holds with no biblionumber left over when items are deleted
21:34 oleonard I shall not be able to assist you in this quest wizzyrea, for I must depart.
21:34 wizzyrea GOOD BYE, oleonard
21:34 oleonard Farewell #koha, until we meet again.
21:34 wizzyrea :)
21:34 * oleonard tried to draw it out this time
21:35 oleonard left #koha
21:35 * wizzyrea giggles
21:35 * wizzyrea applauds
21:39 sekjal okay, that patch is ready
21:39 sekjal anyone feel like doing so a very long circulation-based test plan?  bug 6151
21:44 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6151 major, PATCH-Sent, ---, jonathan.druart, ASSIGNED , IndependantBranches and HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn can prevent items from being checked in
21:44 wizzyrea oh zowie
21:44 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6151] IndependantBranches and HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn can prevent items from being checked in <[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6151>
21:47 libsysguy anybody on that is checking out my hourly branch?
21:48 libsysguy you should be aware of a rebase error
21:50 liw eythian, hi, are you awake?
21:50 eythian liw: I am
21:51 liw eythian, any progress on getting the perl cpan packages related to koha that are still under my name in Debian adopted?
21:52 eythian Not so much yet. Too much travel, too much work :) keep nagging though, it'll happen. Maybe today even, if things don't end up being too busy.
21:53 liw whom do you need to nag?
21:55 eythian you need to keep nagging me :) that said, I think they are all reownered in the Perl staging area. I'll have to see if any need updates.
21:56 liw ah, sorry, misunderstood the nagging sentence
21:57 liw none seem to need updates, but I think I'd like to see adoption uploads anyway, so they get removed from my list of packages
21:57 eythian OK
21:57 eythian I'll do that then, when I work out their new system
21:57 eythian sounds like good friday afternoon work
21:57 liw cool. thanks!
21:57 eythian in between security package updates and migrations :)
21:58 liw if I give a debian packaging tutorial at kohacon, you can get lots of helpers with the packages :)
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21:58 liw well, if someone gives, but I'm happy to
21:58 liw indeed, you should give a talk about the koha packages
21:58 eythian yeah. I need to sit down in a pub with mtj at some point and teach him how they all work
21:58 eythian I probably should
21:59 liw in fact, there should possibly be one talk for people interested in using the packages, and a separate workshop for people interested in improving the packages
21:59 JesseM left #koha
21:59 liw but that's for next year, this is thursday evening and it's bedtime -- night! :)
21:59 eythian heh yeah :)
21:59 eythian catch you later
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23:50 jcamins_away @later tell sekjal Two bugs for QA- 6997 and 7216. Both are pretty simple.
23:50 huginn jcamins_away: The operation succeeded.

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