IRC log for #koha, 2010-09-30

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:20 chris[…]b/Koha/lastBuild/
00:20 chris[…]/29/HTML_Report/?
00:20 chris good to see hudson is still on the job
00:20 richard chris: those reports are pretty cool
00:21 chris yeah, it just automatically runs the tests everytime a commit is pushed
00:21 chris certainly easy to spot where we are lacking tests
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01:17 brendan_l @wunder 93117
01:17 munin brendan_l: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 23.6�C (6:20 PM PDT on September 29, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 59%. Dew Point: 15.0�C. Pressure: 29.72 in 1006.3 hPa (Steady).
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02:02 wasabi wow, how clever is chris.c!
02:03 chris ?
02:03 wasabi quite clever....
02:03 wasabi twas was a rhetorical question
02:03 chris heh
02:05 wasabi the hudson,chan-ops and commit-msg stuff in #koha is great
02:05 chris ahh gmcharlt did the commit-msg stuff
02:06 wasabi yes, he is also great
02:08 wasabi a little paws for our tireless RMs
02:08 wasabi
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05:29 brendan_l heya Amit
05:29 brendan_l night all ;)
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07:18 ivanc hallo #koha
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07:35 kf good morning #koha
07:44 magnus guten morgen kf
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07:48 magnus hiya davi
07:49 magnus wow, wizzyrea was on a roll on twitter yesterday ;-)
07:50 ivanc guten morgen kf
07:50 ivanc hi magnus
07:51 magnus hi ivanc
07:51 davi hi magnus
08:07 kf hi ivanc
08:23 chris heh
08:27 magnus chris?
08:29 chris oh just laughing at myself
08:30 chris[…]roject.html#c2984
08:35 magnus ah...
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10:31 kf @wunder Konstanz
10:31 munin kf: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 12.7�C (12:37 PM CEST on September 30, 2010). Conditions: Light Rain Showers. Humidity: 92%. Dew Point: 11.0�C. Pressure: 30.05 in 1017.5 hPa (Steady).
10:31 kf @wunder Wellington
10:31 munin kf: Error: No such location could be found.
10:31 kf @wunder Wellington NZ
10:31 munin kf: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 15.0�C (11:00 PM NZDT on September 30, 2010). Conditions: Light Rain Showers. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 13.0�C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007 hPa (Steady).
10:31 kf :)
10:53 magnus @wunder bodo norway
10:53 munin magnus: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 10.0�C (12:50 PM CEST on September 30, 2010). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 71%. Dew Point: 5.0�C. Pressure: 30.18 in 1022 hPa (Steady).
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11:41 chris_n` is now known as chris_n
11:41 chris_n @wunder 28334
11:41 munin chris_n: The current temperature in Dunn, North Carolina is 25.1�C (7:24 AM EDT on September 30, 2010). Conditions: Rain. Humidity: 84%. Dew Point: 22.0�C. Pressure: 29.09 in 985.0 hPa (Falling). Flash Flood Watch in effect through this afternoon...
11:41 * chris_n drags out more floaties
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11:56 chris_n fwiw: if you would like to change the tracking branch of a bare git repo you can do 'git symbolic-ref HEAD refs/heads/foo'
11:58 * chris_n greets jwager
11:59 chris_n jwagner: it seems that the mods to the advance due notices worked well... last night's round of notices presented nicely formatted due dates for each item
12:00 jwagner Hi chris_n.  Did I miss something? Not tracking too well today...
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12:01 chris_n I noticed you had subscribed to bug 5263 and thought you might like to know how the first production run of that mod went
12:01 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5263 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, cnighswonger, ASSIGNED, Add support for including fields from the ISSUES table in advanced due notices
12:02 jwagner Oh, I thought you were referring to something I'd done, and I hadn't done anything with notices :-)  That's good to hear -- it would be a nice addition to functionality.
12:03 jwagner Speaking of functionality (I think I've asked this before), do you have a git site or someplace where _all_ your label creator patches & commits are gathered together?  I think we're missing one or two.
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12:07 chris_n I currently publish all of my work either here:
12:07 chris_n[…]fbc.git;a=summary
12:07 chris_n or here:
12:07 chris_n[…]s_n.git;a=summary
12:08 chris_n the label/patron card stuff is in the first one
12:09 chris_n I use a branch-per-bug
12:10 chris_n there were two bugs which rendered the patron card creator non-functional
12:10 chris_n they were committed to HEAD yesterday or so, so you should get them when you rebase
12:11 chris_n for your reference, they are bug 5182 and bug 5183
12:11 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5182 critical, PATCH-Sent, ---, cnighswonger, ASSIGNED, Attempting to export a patron card with no text causes an error to be thrown
12:11 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5183 critical, PATCH-Sent, ---, cnighswonger, ASSIGNED, Incorrect hash dereferencing syntax causes an error to be thrown when attempting to export patron cards
12:13 jwagner I saw those, but I think we missed an earlier one somewhere.  I'll poke around.  Thanks.
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12:13 chris_n jwagner: the production branch is what we presently run in production here
12:14 chris_n it has all of the labels and patron cards work to date in it
12:14 chris_n heya owen
12:14 owen Hi
12:14 jwagner Great, thanks!
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12:56 Topic for #koha is now Topic for #koha is Koha ILS | Don't ask to ask, just ask! | |
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13:24 brendan morning all
13:31 kf morning brendan
13:31 brendan heya kf
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13:48 * druthb strolls in with a song stuck in her head.
13:48 brendan morning druthb
13:48 druthb Hi, brendan! :)
13:48 kf hi druthb :)
13:48 * kf waves
13:48 druthb Hi, kf! :)
13:50 * kf shares a cookie with druthb
13:50 druthb yay!
13:50 * jwagner gets jealous
13:50 * druthb munches on the cookie.
13:50 magnus mmm, cookies...
13:52 * kf hands out one mor cookie for jwagner and magnus to share
13:53 kf cookie shortage here, must ration them ;)
13:53 magnus oooh, thanks
13:53 * jwagner feels better :-)
13:53 * druthb had not heard of a regional cookie shortage in Europe.  That's baaaad.
13:53 druthb Congress is just down the road; I'll whistle them up and see about an aid package.
13:54 * jwagner was thinking about baking cookies this weekend, but doesn't have the energy
13:54 kf druthb: ... perhaps.. someone has eaten all the cookies?
13:54 druthb I might bake some.  I have some cooking and maybe some canning to do anyway.
13:55 druthb don't blame *me*, kf!
13:56 kf I was not talking about you ;)
13:56 druthb All right...good.  :P
14:07 wizzyrea_ hmm I think my signoff of chris's patch for + signs in patron barcodes got held for moderation
14:07 wizzyrea_ I just now noticed it
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15:11 CGI112 hello everybody
15:12 CGI112 witch is the difference between koha and liblime
15:12 CGI112 tarley
15:13 owen CGI112: You should go to for information about the Koha project
15:13 owen is under the control of Liblime
15:14 owen Harley is their fork of Koha, with some bug-fixes and improvements but is months behind the main Koha project in many respects
15:14 owen CGI112: Harley installations are not supported by the community
15:15 mib_0zoee Alrighty.....silly question of the day long do you guys reckon it would take a complete programming n00b (but IT literate person) to be proficient enough in Perl to contribute to Koha..
15:15 owen mib_0zoee: It depends entirely on how hard you study I suppose :)
15:15 sekjal mib_0zoee: what percentage of this person's hours are available to dedicate?
15:15 mib_0zoee Yeah, it is realative I suppose......assume a couple of hours a day
15:16 mib_0zoee that is 2 hours!
15:17 sekjal mib_0zoee: small bug fixes within a month, I'd say.  bigger developments within 3-6 months, depending on what exactly they were, circumstances, etc.
15:17 sekjal these are just my off-the-cuff guesses, of course
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15:18 mib_0zoee Seriously? I would have thought a lot longer.....anyway, it is what I have tasked myself to do, so hopefully I will get there.....I suppose there are other parts too though, of Koha, like........
15:18 mib_0zoee XML, XSLT, Perl Templates etc
15:18 owen HTML, CSS, JavaScript
15:19 mib_0zoee Well, HTML and CSS I have reasonably covered.....JavaScript - not so much!!!
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15:20 CGI112 can i install the harley version in my server
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15:20 cait hi #koha
15:20 owen CGI112: You can, but I don't recommend it
15:21 CGI112 hareley has more features than koha ?
15:21 wizzyrea_ I have reasons to believe that you really should not install it.
15:21 mib_0zoee I can vouche for not installing it (Harley)......spent hours before I realised that it, well, how can I put this.....has some short comings.....
15:22 sekjal CGI122: no, Koha has more features in total
15:22 owen CGI112: PTFS/Liblime calls Harley as a "release," where it really should have been offered only as a development branch
15:22 sekjal but Harley does have features that Koha has not yet integrated (for a variety of reasons)
15:29 ivanc hi cait
15:31 wizzyrea_ is now known as wizzyrea
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15:34 * druthb waves to cait and wizzyrea.
15:34 cait :)
15:34 * wizzyrea waves to druthb
15:41 ivanc :)
15:49 paul_p hello world !
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15:50 wizzyrea hey paul_p
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15:57 cait hey paul_p
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16:08 jcamins_a is now known as jcamins
16:10 jcamins Hey there, #koha
16:10 jcamins Did I miss anything exciting?
16:10 sekjal jcamins:  someone asked us the difference between koha and liblime
16:11 jcamins Yeah, I saw that.
16:11 sekjal other than that, I'm working on parsing MFHD
16:11 SJeffery Do you have a designated place on your desk or wall to bang your head against every time you get asked a question like that?
16:11 jcamins mib_0zoee: I think sekjal's estimate of how long it would take to learn Perl is reasonable, *but* that's not the only way to contribute to Koha.
16:11 SJeffery <--Had to explain the difference four times to his bosses, and expects to have to repeat it many more times.
16:12 jcamins sekjal: you have my condolences. And, of course, my deepest respect.
16:12 sekjal SJeffery: the trick is explaining the difference clearly and concisely without letting my personal feelings on the whole matter color anything I say.
16:13 sekjal jcamins: yeah, with any luck the work I do for this project can be merged back into the Koha importers
16:13 sekjal let us import/export our serials holdings a little easier
16:15 mib_0zoee What else could I do....? - eager beaver.....
16:16 owen mib_0zoee: I got started by working on templates. All it took was knowledge of HTML and CSS
16:17 owen Documentation is ALWAYS appreciated :)
16:17 jcamins mib_0zoee: testing, helping with documentation, fixing problems with templates (you said you knew HTML and CSS)...
16:17 jcamins Whoops. Apparently I'm getting some lag and owen already suggested two of my ideas.
16:18 mib_0zoee Ah yes, documentation..... well if I ever contribute I will certain document it......yep, HTML and CSS is fine with me, however, I can't say I have found any bugs....yet!
16:18 jcamins mib_0zoee: want a list? ;)
16:19 mib_0zoee :-) ^^ But there not just template bugs though!
16:20 mib_0zoee Actually , I did find a strange Marc display bug yesterday, which I meant to log as a bug......
16:20 SJeffery I think people are going to enjoy the code that we end up having contributed, looking at lots of nifty small features.
16:20 jcamins Go to Search, Advanced Search, and choose "Templates" as the Component.
16:22 jcamins Then roll up your sleeves and have fun. ;)
16:22 owen mib_0zoee: Are you up to speed on using Git?
16:22 mib_0zoee OK.....I see now....plenty to do.....
16:22 jcamins owen: oh, yeah, forgot about that requirement.
16:23 jcamins mib_0zoee: if not, this page is really helpful:​i/Version_Control_Using_Git
16:23 mib_0zoee Regarding, I have been trying to get my head around it but time has been against me, I have it on my list though!
16:23 owen It's a good place to start since you'll want it set up before you submit patches
16:25 mib_0zoee Cool, will look into it.......gotta go now though, knocking off time where I am.......I'll be back!
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16:27 wizzyrea oh, I was oging to point him to
16:28 wizzyrea nuts. That's what I get for going down the youtube vortex
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16:35 druthb @roulette
16:35 munin druthb: *click*
16:35 druthb @roulette
16:35 munin druthb: *click*
16:35 druthb hm
16:35 druthb @roulette
16:35 munin *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
16:35 * munin reloads and spins the chambers.
16:35 druthb heh.
16:35 wizzyrea >.>
16:35 druthb @roulette
16:35 munin druthb: *click*
16:35 wizzyrea <.<
16:36 druthb @roulette
16:36 munin druthb: *click*
16:36 druthb @roulette
16:36 munin druthb: *click*
16:36 druthb dang.
16:36 druthb @roulette
16:36 wizzyrea munin likes you today
16:36 munin druthb: *click*
16:36 munin wizzyrea: Error: "likes" is not a valid command.
16:36 druthb guess so.
16:36 druthb pity.
16:36 wizzyrea aw
16:37 druthb I keep hopin' munin will put me out of my misery.  But it had a shot, and blew it.
16:38 owen You must seek the munin within to find peace
16:38 druthb heh
16:38 wizzyrea @roulette
16:38 munin wizzyrea: *click*
16:38 druthb @roulette
16:38 druthb was kicked by munin: BANG!
16:38 * munin reloads and spins the chambers.
16:38 druthb joined #koha
16:38 druthb that's better.
16:39 SJeffery It being a web app, is it technically possible to have the printing of labels bypass the output as pdf stage and send it directly to the printer?
16:39 jcamins SJeffery: I think chris_n said something about that not working because Firefox won't let you change the margins.
16:40 owen I don't think that's what SJeffery means
16:40 jcamins Oh.
16:40 owen And anyway I think chris_n got his margin problem sorted out
16:40 jcamins Oh, did he? Hooray!
16:41 jcamins SJeffery: so in conclusion, don't listen to me wrt labels.
16:41 owen SJeffery: Do you mean printing directly from the browser?
16:41 SJeffery I mean either have it display a webpage that you can click file->print and have it print correctly when the proper printer is selected or something similar (for example, I believe Zebra printers can have code directly sent to them)
16:42 owen SJeffery: The problem with printing from the browser is that you'll get different results from different browsers
16:43 owen But I suppose it's possible, through trial and error.
16:44 SJeffery I'm going to be starting a project of retroactive cataloging of 5k items, all of which need new labels and book cards, so the less time and frustration it takes the better.
16:45 wizzyrea chris_n might have advice about using the zebra printers
16:46 wizzyrea the other option is to do them in batches: catalog 50, print 50 labels
16:46 wizzyrea apply 50 labels
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16:47 SJeffery Yeah, doable (as long as you keep them in order), but PDFs have their own problems with printing to Zebras.
16:47 SJeffery Is there already a template or function to print book/circulation cards in Koha?
16:47 wizzyrea I would use a laser for a project like that, honestly
16:48 wizzyrea but maybe I'm underestimating the awesomeness of the zebra printers
16:48 mib_f0dw8 i want to show certain marc fields like 041a "language code", 952p "barcode" in search results or on item details in the opac similar to how the "Physical Description" is displayed when the 300a field exists.  i thought this might be in koha to marc mapping but it seems that's not what i'm looking for
16:48 wizzyrea I don't think there's a template for that
16:48 wizzyrea but it shouldn't be too hard to do
16:48 jcamins mib_f0dw8: in order to do that you'd need to edit the template by hand.
16:48 wizzyrea if you can measure.
16:48 wizzyrea (I'm sure you can)
16:49 jcamins mib_f0dw8: what version of Koha are you on?
16:49 mib_f0dw8 jcamins: the latest git
16:49 SJeffery Wizzyrea, I have a laser for the circulation cards and a Zebra for barcodes and spine labels.
16:50 mib_f0dw8 jcamins: sorry, i dont think i understand what you mean by the template
16:50 jcamins mib_f0dw8: do you use MARC21 or UNIMARC?
16:50 mib_f0dw8 mib_f0dw8: MARC21
16:50 mib_f0dw8 whoops
16:50 mib_f0dw8 jcamins: MARC21
16:51 jcamins Okay, the files you'll need to edit are koha-tmpl/opac-tmpl/prog/en/x​slt/MARC21slim2OPACDetail.xsl and MARC21slim2OPACResults.xsl in the same directory and...
16:52 jcamins koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/x​slt/MARC21slim2intranetDetail.xsl
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16:53 jcamins Those are XSLT stylesheets that are used for the OPAC Detail page, OPAC Results page, and Intranet Detail page, respectively.
16:53 jcamins *used to format those pages
16:53 mib_f0dw8 ahh i see now how this is going to work
16:53 owen Welcome CGI415, have you seen the new home of the Koha project?
16:53 CGI415 hola
16:54 CGI415 alguien me puede auadar?
16:54 CGI415 ayudar
16:54 mib_f0dw8 jcamins: thanks a bunch
16:54 mib_f0dw8 jcamins: also, just another question.  is there anything like amazon aws for DVDs?
16:55 CGI415 anyone can help me whit a question?
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16:57 owen Give us a try CGI415, we don't know the question!
16:57 CGI415 about save a record!
16:57 jcamins mib_f0dw8: you mean for covers? I'm not sure. Not to my knowledge.
16:57 CGI415 a need enable
16:57 mib_f0dw8 jcamins: yeah , oh well, it was worth a shot
16:57 CGI415 a need enable "save a record in the opac
16:58 CGI415 sorry, no enable "save a record" in the opac
16:59 owen CGI415: The "save record" feature is enabled by default in the OPAC
16:59 jcamins CGI415: what do you mean? By default there's an option to save records as BIBTEX, MARC, MARCXML, MODS, etc.
16:59 CGI415 yes, but i cant not enable?
17:00 jcamins CGI415: you mean you want to disable it so that it is not visible?
17:01 CGI415 es
17:01 CGI415 yes
17:01 owen CGI415: You could add custom CSS to your OpacUserCSS preference: #export { display: none; }
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17:03 CGI415 on value?
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17:05 CGI415 owen.... i dont understand....explain me please
17:05 owen In Koha's system preferences, look for one named "OpacUserCSS"
17:05 CGI415 ok
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17:06 CGI415 and...
17:06 owen Edit that preference, and add this as the value:
17:06 owen #export  { display: none; }
17:06 CGI415 and variable type?
17:07 owen Don't change anything else
17:07 CGI415 ok
17:07 CGI415 value : #export  { display: none; }
17:07 CGI415 only #export  or #export  { display: none; }
17:07 owen #export  { display: none; }
17:08 CGI415 ok
17:09 CGI415 owen)
17:10 CGI415 i have other you can help me owen
17:11 jcamins CGI415: ask your question, and we'll see if anyone can help.
17:13 CGI415 i need to do the same whit the "Search for this title in:" i want disable, not visible in the opac
17:14 owen CGI415: What version are you running?
17:14 CGI415 3.0.2
17:16 owen #further { display: none; }
17:16 owen Add that to OpacUserCSS as well
17:17 CGI415 ok
17:25 CGI415 thank you
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17:33 owen Lots of traffic from today
17:33 CGI594 how can get the koha enterprise
17:33 owen Welcome CGI594, have you seen the new home of the Koha project?
17:34 owen CGI594, if you're referring to "Liblime Enterprise Koha," you'll have to ask Liblime. It's not really Koha, so we don't deal with it here.
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17:35 CGI578 mum thew me nd dad out  *we got 28 days can some one help with htis eroor
17:35 CGI578 can some one help with an error plz
17:35 CGI578 The following fatal error has occurred:  Modification of non-creatable array value attempted, subscript -4 at /usr/share/koha/intranet/cgi-b​in/cataloguing/ line 196.
17:36 CGI594 left #koha
17:37 CGI578 anyone ?
17:38 jcamins is now known as jcamins_a
17:39 owen What version are you using CGI578, and what led to the error?
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18:00 owen Glad we were so much help CGI578
18:03 rhcl Probably needs to find lodging for the night.
18:04 CGI415 owen i need delete "Publication Date Range" in the opac advanced seach
18:04 owen yeah, rhcl, my mom only kicked me out for a week when my Koha installation went down.
18:05 owen CGI415: Try #pubrange { display: none; }
18:05 rhcl :)
18:05 CGI415 and the same whit "Limit to any of the following:"
18:07 owen #advsearch-itemtype { display : none; }
18:09 CGI415 yeaap thank you
18:15 CGI415 other do i can the words "and" "or" "not" to spanish words "y" "o" "no"
18:15 CGI415 change
18:15 CGI415 sorry
18:16 chris[…]ANET_staff_client
18:17 CGI415 only need change from "search for"
18:18 CGI415 spanish and english is the same...
18:18 CGI415 and, or, not
18:18 CGI415 i need change it for y, o , no
18:19 owen CGI415: Why not use a fully translated template?
18:24 owen @wunder 45701
18:24 munin owen: The current temperature in Ohio University, Athens, Ohio is 22.8�C (2:30 PM EDT on September 30, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 41%. Dew Point: 9.0�C. Pressure: 29.52 in 999.5 hPa (Steady).
18:24 owen Beautiful day out there. Here's to offices with windows that open!
18:25 wizzyrea @wunder 66049
18:25 munin wizzyrea: The current temperature in Lawrence Live-Courtesy of the Khoury's, Lawrence, Kansas is 23.1�C (1:32 PM CDT on September 30, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 39%. Dew Point: 8.0�C. Pressure: 30.16 in 1021.2 hPa (Falling).
18:26 wizzyrea yep, similarly perfect here
18:27 CGI415 ok....owen the same to "Subtype limits" delete it in the opac
18:29 owen #subtypes { display : none; }
18:29 CGI415 thanks
18:29 owen You're not going to have a lot left CGI415 :)
18:38 mib_f0dw8 left #koha
19:20 hdl left #koha
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19:27 * chris_n tries to crawl out from under a major ac outage which has caused his gateway server to crash :-P
19:28 richard joined #koha
19:28 richard hi
19:32 paul_p left #koha
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20:00 chris_n one dhcp and bind fix later... the natives are happy again
20:01 chris :)
20:03 rhcl was it your ac power or air conditioning?
20:04 hdl left #koha
20:09 alan joined #koha
20:16 francharb left #koha
20:19 darling joined #koha
20:23 jcamins_a Is it just me or has this been a strange day in #koha?
20:23 jcamins_a is now known as jcamins
20:25 alan left #koha
20:27 SJeffery Strange here? Not as far as I have sene. Then again, I have been buried in a literature search for five hours.
20:29 jcamins I guess by "strange" I meant "an unusual number of people from, including one who was apparently kicked out of his/her house."
20:31 * SJeffery checks whether it is a full moon tonight
20:34 chris hehe
20:35 chris yeah there were a lot of hte CGI ppl
20:36 sekjal perhaps it's people gearing up for tomorrow's WEBCAST
20:37 jcamins What's tomorrow's WEBCAST?
20:37 SJeffery There's a webcast?
20:37 chris another one?
20:37 jcamins What was the first one?
20:38 sekjal LibLime is sponsoring a webcast, like they did a few weeks ago
20:38 sekjal apparently there is a Fall Series
20:38 chris about how not to do open source?
20:38 chris they are experts in that
20:39 sekjal the title, I think, is "Exploring KOHA"
20:39 chris </friday_snarkiness>
20:39 sekjal it seems to cover the "evolution of Koha"
20:40 chris heh, that'll be interesting
20:40 sekjal By attending this Webcast you will learn:
20:40 sekjal Koha Then and Now
20:40 sekjal The Evolution of Koha Support Companies
20:40 sekjal Who is using Koha? See their systems
20:40 sekjal Explore patron and staff client capabilities of Koha
20:40 sekjal tomorrow, at 11am EDT
20:40 chris if anyone goes id love a report
20:41 chris i suspect a lot of history will be rewritten
20:41 jcamins I wasn't invited.
20:41 jcamins At least, I don't think I was.
20:41 chris some librarians in nz were
20:41 sekjal Please RSVP to on or before Wednesday September 29, as space is limited
20:42 sekjal I'd love to sit in on it, but I have work to do.
20:43 chris *nod*
20:43 chris id just like to point people at
20:44 chris
20:44 chris and
20:44 chris but its friday .. ill be happy again now :)
20:45 sekjal oh, wow, I'm really off by a day...
20:45 sekjal I think I need a weekend
20:45 SJeffery I insist that it is Thursday and you crazy kiwis have it all wrong.
20:45 chris heh
20:45 richard definately friday on my calendar :)
20:45 chris its precisely 6 hours and 8 minutes until beer oclock
20:47 jcamins Heh. Lucky.
20:47 chris sekjal: you booked hotel and stuff eh?
20:49 sekjal haven't done the hotel yet; it's just been bumped up my list
20:49 sekjal my very long, ever-growing list
20:49 sekjal ::sigh::
20:49 chris :)
20:49 sekjal but I'm registered, and going on the Levin trip
20:49 chris they are starting to fill up
20:49 cait sekjal: don't wait too long
20:49 chris yay!!
20:49 chris what cait said
20:49 cait hi chris and sekjal :)
20:49 chris i cant have too many ppl on my floor
20:49 cait jcamins around?
20:49 chris :)
20:50 sekjal I'm really excited to learn more about Maori culture; I don't know nearly as much as I feel I should
20:50 sekjal chris: any books you'd recommend for some pre-reading?
20:50 chris you'll be learning a song on the bus on the way up :)
20:50 chris hmm yeah 2 secs
20:50 * chris calls his dad
20:51 jcamins cait: Yes I am.
20:51 cait sekjal: I am staying at travelodge, I think some others are at west plaza and magnus is at book lovers
20:51 cait still interested in my ohloh patch? :)
20:52 chris_n rhcl: either one could be equally devastating, but this was a total power outage for about 1.5 hours
20:52 cait I thought I had it in my installation at workt... but it was on the laptop all the time
20:52 chris_n long enough to kill every ups on the place
20:52 jcamins cait: Sure, signing things off is a good way to start accomplishing things this evening.
20:52 chris_n that particular box had been up for over 700 days
20:52 sekjal hopefully I'll have a little time tomorrow to get my accomodations squared away
20:52 sekjal it's been a crazy week
20:52 cait cool, can you pm me your mail adress?
20:52 cait my organisation lacks a bit today
20:53 cait sekjal: definitely
20:53 * chris_n wants to see a windows box do that
20:53 chris
20:54 chris thats a good one sekjal
20:56 sekjal thanks, chris.  Added to my list.
20:58 chris_n bbl
20:58 CGI578 joined #koha
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21:01 schuster left #koha
21:02 * wizzyrea moaned the day she took down her KanGuard server that had an uptime of 1500 days
21:03 wizzyrea plenty of squid restarts for config changes, but no crashes.
21:10 chris no kernel upgrades .. thats crazy talk :)
21:12 wizzyrea I inherited it... I was half afraid if I turned it off it would die >.>
21:13 wizzyrea I iprobably won't ever have one that goes on that long ever again, sadly.
21:13 chris yeah theres always the danger the disks wont spin up again
21:15 SJeffery Does Koha link through the 773 field?
21:16 jcamins SJeffery: kind of.
21:16 jcamins cait's working on some super linking code, though. :)
21:16 jcamins cait++
21:18 cait SJeffery: yep, I am working on something, using $w and Control number from 001
21:19 jcamins cait++ # the linking code is so awesome she needs double karma
21:19 SJeffery cait, any estimate on when it will be done?
21:20 cait I hope to send something out on the weekend
21:20 cait for qa and comments
21:21 * jcamins is absolutely thrilled and amazed
21:21 chris not a developer my butt
21:21 cait my plan is to implement a sys pref to turn it off and on and push it to a public repo for chris to pull from
21:21 chris :)
21:21 chris cati++
21:21 chris heh and
21:21 chris cait++
21:23 bankhead joined #koha
21:24 cait chris?
21:25 chris yes?
21:25 cait hm, scroll down first...
21:25 SJeffery sweet, glad to hear it cait...doing some planning with our project to start cataloging 1000+ "in analytics" per year and adding them to our catalog.
21:25 cait my ? was about your butt and developer comment :)
21:25 chris ahh
21:25 SJeffery And a lack of linking makes it suck\
21:25 chris theres no way you can pretend you arent a developer now :)
21:25 cait we have a lot more links, but I hope my code will be useful for others too
21:26 SJeffery cait, are you doing from the child to the parent, parent to the child, or both?
21:26 cait jcamins: all you see is in staff too
21:26 cait including your article icon :)
21:26 cait i did article to serial, but not seral to article
21:26 sekjal okay, #koha, this is my stop.  Have a great rest of the day/night/weekend, wherever you all are
21:26 cait it will produce no results most of the time, not many articles in our catalogs
21:26 sekjal left #koha
21:27 cait SJeffery: sekjal has a RFC on the wiki about analytics
21:27 SJeffery cait, not really useful for journals, but we deal with a lot of conference papers where it could come in handy
21:27 cait I think you can find out how many results there wil be with jquery, but a server side solution would be better
21:27 cait perhaps we could make it a sys pref
21:28 cait if the top down links for analytics show
21:28 jcamins cait: All signed off.
21:29 SJeffery Yep. Could also limit it to certain types (as in don't show for magazines but show for X)
21:30 cait can be more difficult
21:30 SJeffery Once I get our test instance up (*crosses fingers that it will actually be before the end of October*) analytics will be our main focus, so I will start doing some planning on it.
21:31 cait SJeffery: I would appreciate your comments on my work - really want to build something that chris will include in 3.4 :)
21:31 SJeffery Though really, FRBR makes defining these relationships a lot easier, but as RDA is looking to be implemented it will be really messy.
21:31 cait our goal is to have no local customizations in our installations :)
21:34 SJeffery sure cait. Just let me know when and how:D
21:36 SJeffery Doh. I was just shown why I hate bugzilla.
21:36 jcamins SJeffery: why's that?
21:36 SJeffery You can't silently add yourself to the CC list.
21:36 jcamins Yes, I see you added yourself as a CC on one of my bugs.
21:37 jcamins I need to update that bug, actually.
21:37 cait SJeffery: bug 4506
21:37 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4506 enhancement, P5, ---, katrin.fischer, NEW, Add support of record linking by record control number in $w
21:37 cait that's what my work is about
21:37 SJeffery Ah, ok. I just did a search for analytics and that was the only one that came up, so I added to that
21:38 jcamins Oh, I already updated it.
21:38 jcamins That was smart of me.
21:38 SJeffery heh
21:38 SJeffery I prefer Mantis over Bugzilla, but at least the interface has improved over the last five years.
21:39 SJeffery Cait, did you look at the (what there is) existing RDA documentation for how linking will change and whether 773 is going to be used for that?
21:39 cait SJeffery: I am sorry, i have not looked at RDA yet
21:40 cait I was trying to build something that will work with our existing data
21:40 jcamins (zing!)
21:40 cait but RDA is discussed here in Germany too and one of my coworkers is kind of an expert, I can try to get some information from her
21:41 cait zing?
21:41 jcamins One way to interpret that statement is that RDA doesn't work with the existing data. ;)
21:42 SJeffery What FRBR does (and RDA does a poor job of implementing) is add the concept of relationships between items/works/whatever...more than just the existing effectively unlabeled 773 field. So for example, you could define that X is a summary of Y, or included in, a part of, annotated by, etc. I just have not looked at the latest RDA stuff to see if they
21:42 SJeffery implemented it using the 773 or what they did.
21:42 chris RDA is a pile of mess
21:42 chris thrown on top another pile of mess
21:42 chris in the hopes that they will cancel each other out
21:43 SJeffery I love FRBR and have worked a lot with it, but RDA is the result of too many compromises. They tried to make it as compatible as possible with existing MARC records instead of just coming out with a completely new standard.
21:43 chris yeah exactly
21:44 chris koha 1.0 was frbrish without any idea what frbr was/is
21:44 SJeffery Even worse, they continued the tradition of making nightmarishly complex and long documentation that doesn't really provide any assistance.
21:44 SJeffery RDA documentation = just as bad as AACR2
21:44 chris its moved further away as native MARC support was added
21:45 SJeffery I almost wonder if it would be worth adding all of the linking functionality on top of MARC and within Koha (independant of the records) to give all of the great linking/relationship options present in FRBR.
21:46 * SJeffery cringes as hordes of angry catalogers start running in his direction
21:46 cait jcamins: oh, not intended.
21:47 ebegin joined #koha
21:50 jcamins cait: well, _I_ probably would have intended it. ;)
21:50 cait after all teh karma I got today... is it a good time to mention my not signed-off bug list?
21:50 cait :)
21:52 cait bug 5194
21:52 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5194 major, PATCH-Sent, ---, katrin.fischer, NEW, Patron notification on new issues not working
21:54 davi left #koha
21:55 wizzyrea!/jlongipl/status/26003375344
21:55 bankhead left #koha
21:57 chris!/wizzyrea/status/26005210768
22:00 jcamins cait: I signed off on all the patches I could.
22:01 cait and I am grateful for that jcamins :)
22:02 cait jcamins##
22:02 cait jcamins++
22:02 cait @karma jcamins
22:02 munin cait: Karma for "jcamins" has been increased 18 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 18.
22:06 Braedon joined #koha
22:08 jcamins Ooh, that's a lot of karma. :)
22:08 jcamins @karma cait
22:08 munin jcamins: Karma for "cait" has been increased 26 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 26.
22:08 jcamins @karma kf
22:08 munin jcamins: Karma for "kf" has been increased 29 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 29.
22:09 cait 29 cookies + 26 cookies = .... yum
22:09 Braedon now if only munin would start sending people cookies
22:10 * Braedon would prefer muffins (blueberry) if anyone wants to start this
22:10 jcamins munin: I would prefer chocolate chip cookies.
22:10 munin jcamins: Error: "I" is not a valid command.
22:10 Braedon @karma Braedon
22:10 munin Braedon: Karma for "Braedon" has been increased 1 time and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 1.
22:10 Braedon woo, one for me
22:11 robin @karma zebra
22:11 munin robin: Karma for "zebra" has been increased 3 times and decreased 3 times for a total karma of 0.
22:11 robin sounds about right :)
22:12 Braedon @karma nozebra
22:12 munin Braedon: nozebra has neutral karma.
22:12 Braedon nozebra-
22:13 chris yeah when zebra works its awesome, when it doesnt, its hard to figure out why
22:13 chris but usually its our fault
22:13 chris C4::Search--
22:14 Braedon @karma nozebra
22:14 munin Braedon: nozebra has neutral karma.
22:14 Braedon damn, forgot the second - didn't i
22:14 Braedon nozebra--
22:15 jcamins regional_cookie_shortages--
22:16 SJeffery Boy would it be nice if I didn't have to do original cataloging for every single thing I receive.
22:16 jcamins SJeffery: I can wholeheartedly relate to that.
22:16 jcamins What does your library relate to?
22:17 SJeffery Received five conference proceedings, all are lacking records, only one has had any previous conference in LC, and all will need analytics for each paper.
22:17 SJeffery jcamins, we are one of the larger mining companies
22:18 jcamins Yeah, that's pretty specialized.
22:18 jcamins If you want to feel better about the state of your cataloging records...
22:18 jcamins Do a search by item type AR (Article).
22:20 SJeffery jcamis, I think that page needs an explanation of what numastics is :D
22:20 jcamins Heh. The study of coins.
22:20 jcamins But I was just referring to the...
22:20 jcamins Oh, wait, yes, it should.
22:20 jcamins I see what you mean.
22:20 jcamins 120388 in-analytics.
22:21 SJeffery And if you want to feel better, every single one of our records is created in a system that does not support MARC and in fields that are 100% uncontrolled and by people with no training as a librarian.
22:21 SJeffery Ouch, we are only at somewhere around 15k.
22:21 jcamins And it's been over a year since we suspended indexing.
22:22 SJeffery Grr, and the logo in the top left should be clickable to the society
22:22 jcamins It should also not be horribly pixelated, and the colors should match on the OPAClogo.
22:22 SJeffery And don't forget definitely needs to blink
22:23 jcamins Heh.
22:23 jcamins At least the HTML seems to be basically standard-compliant now.
22:24 jcamins closing_tags++
22:24 SJeffery What are these standards you speak of? I do not think my organization is familiar with them:D
22:26 jcamins Maybe we should have a support group... ;)
22:26 SJeffery Your analytics link back to a search of just the title? Ouch. (reason I am excited others are doing work on the Koha code for them)
22:27 chris_n1 joined #koha
22:27 jcamins Some of the analytics link to a search by ISSN/etc.
22:27 SJeffery Sure, but our meetings will have to be scheduled around my support group for librarians who have been told by their IT department that their library catalog needs to be put into SharePoint instead because it can do everything and is the standard.
22:27 * jcamins giggles - sorry, I totally understand that
22:28 robin SJeffery: that..that happens?
22:28 robin tell me you made that up
22:28 robin please
22:28 SJeffery Three times in five years.
22:28 SJeffery Most recently in February
22:28 robin :<
22:29 SJeffery At least this time it didn't get to the SVP of the 25,000 person company.
22:31 cait jcamins: I have not added a fallback to issn yet :(
22:31 cait and yes, I am still awake... hmpf.
22:31 jcamins cait: that's okay. Our fallback to issn doesn't really work.
22:32 SJeffery ISSN wouldn't really work for us either, about half would not have them.
22:33 * jcamins sighs -- he's not accomplishing anything this evening
22:33 * chris_n1 hands cait a pillow
22:34 cait chris_n thx :)
22:34 SJeffery jcamis do you think of proceedings as being a serial record or a monograph record?
22:35 robin anyone happen to know the purpose of 'notify_id' in the accountlines table? Trying to work it out from the code is tricky, and the documentation isn't helpful
22:35 cait robin: a features that was once there
22:35 cait not anymore
22:35 Braedon left #koha
22:35 robin ah, good, I'll ignore it then, ta
22:35 cait there are more leftovers in other tables, code and even templates
22:35 cait like the overdue reports in staff
22:36 cait I think chris will know more
22:36 robin we should see about getting a "negative lines of code added" for 3.4 :)
22:36 robin he has no idea
22:36 jcamins SJeffery: monograph.
22:36 cait hm
22:36 cait hm, I remember talking to him about that :P
22:36 chris there will be public floggings for removing features without good documentation as to why
22:36 robin maybe he's forgotten :)
22:37 cait something about another system of fines and notices
22:37 chris notify_id is not something i did
22:37 chris not understanding how something works is not a good enough reason to remove it
22:37 cait I believe you :)
22:37 * chris_n1 thinks notices needs to be entirely overhauled
22:37 cait chris_n++
22:37 SJeffery jcamis, k, glad I am not the only one. The official practice seems to be serials, but from the practical perspective it seems like you have to do them as monographs to embed TOCs and such.
22:37 chris_n1 its sort of hacky atm
22:37 robin (/me is reimplementing refunds for a client, as they got removed in 3.0)
22:38 chris reimplementation is fine, but no turning the feature off until its replaced
22:38 Braedon joined #koha
22:38 jcamins SJeffery: if you really wanted you could have a serial record for the conference, an analytic for each *volume* and then analytics for each *article*, but that sounds... icky.
22:38 chris security would be the one exception to that rule
22:38 * cait immediately things about the nice links in the budgets table on acq homepage
22:38 cait s/things/thinks
22:39 chris cait: exactly like that
22:39 cait we have our first ever acq training on monday
22:39 * jcamins sighs -- it's official- he hasn't accomplished anything this evening.
22:39 cait and serials on tuesday...
22:39 SJeffery jcamis: That is something I have been considering, at least in cases where the conference name has either changed a lot or is confusing
22:39 cait jcamins: you spend time with us and signed off on my patch :)
22:40 jcamins cait: true.
22:40 cait jcamins: perhaps a set like we have?
22:40 jcamins SJeffery: once kf's analytic patches are in, that will work better.
22:40 jcamins Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
22:40 cait look at handbuch der religionspädagogik
22:40 SJeffery I do hope so
22:40 cait it's a work with 3 volumes
22:41 jcamins SJeffery: my personal bias is to have a 490/811.
22:41 jcamins Well, actually I always use 810.
22:41 cait and a set record (I took the word set from the marc21 documentation, not sure if it's correct)
22:41 cait it will work for 800/810/811 and 830 (if I remember correctly)
22:42 cait perhaps needs some more subfields added to show, I did not have time to find an example for each
22:42 jcamins cait: yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking of.
22:43 SJeffery I still need to find some good examples of journal article and conference paper analytic records in OCLC that I can use as a template...have not had much experience with them as marc records.
22:43 jcamins SJeffery: I don't think analytics are supposed to be uploaded to OCLC.
22:44 SJeffery they are
22:44 SJeffery It just is not that common, but I have been noticing more and more as some of the databases out there have been imported into worldcat
22:46 cait I think ours might be there to
22:46 cait o
22:46 cait but we had to remove all the nice links and new things...
22:46 SJeffery The real problem with them in worldcat is the holdings information is useless as only the original library ever has holdings and OCLC does not sync it with those that have the issuing publication.
22:47 jcamins Right.
22:47 SJeffery this is the response I got from OCLC in July about analytic records :
22:47 SJeffery In, OCLC has loaded analytic records with the WorldCat bib records to show users all the items available on the topics they are searching.  This shows up only in, not in the cataloging view of the database.   I am not sure how many analytic records appear in WorldCat through Connexion.
22:48 SJeffery So relatively rare, but allowed (they even have posted guidelines for them).
22:49 SJeffery On the plus side, OCLC will be paying us for using their services since we will end up creating far more records than we download (after the initial conversion).
22:50 jcamins That's very nifty.
22:52 jcamins Sadly our cataloging historically has been so abysmal that pretty much none of our records could be uploaded to OCLC.
22:53 SJeffery Same here, but new records are another matter, though since I am the one that will have to do them I am not particularly delighted with that.
22:55 SJeffery And on that note, time to get away from the office
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