IRC log for #koha, 2010-04-06

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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01:02 larsw Koha declares a dependency on HTTP::OAI, but[…]2/lib/HTTP/ says it is a stub module
01:02 larsw does Koha really need HTTP::OAI?
01:03 larsw ah, the module is not empty, after all, so I assume it will be needed
01:04 chris yeah it lets you allow your OPAC to be harvested
01:05 larsw I need some sensible description for the Debian package -- dh-make-perl just extracts the manpage's "this is a stub", which is not good
01:05 chris righto, 2 secs
01:13 chris larsw: try perldoc opac/
01:13 chris thats how we are using it at least
01:14 larsw is what I came up on my own
01:14 chris seems fine to me
01:14 larsw the perldoc command does not seem to give me any output
01:14 larsw ok, then I'll keep that, thanks :)
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02:53 abdullatef Hi there
02:53 abdullatef I'm Abdullatef from Malaysia
02:54 abdullatef yesterday i ask a question on searching
02:54 abdullatef we have install koha on debian
02:54 abdullatef but unfortunately the search is not working
02:55 abdullatef hdl_laptop ask me to check the zebra in install.debian
02:56 abdullatef we have checked it and the zebra is already installed
02:56 abdullatef but the search is still not working
02:57 abdullatef please help us
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03:44 Amit hi all
03:44 Amit good morning #koha
04:17 Jo woo hoo: Local Iwi are happy to co-host Koha conference attendees for a powhiri and evening meal out at the marae :)
04:17 Jo after the mayoral reception ... Levin really is turning it on!
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04:26 abdullatef hi
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07:12 magnus g'day #koha - and thus endeth the easter holiday in norway...
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07:39 chris evening
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07:57 kf good morning #koha :)
07:59 Ropuch Good morning #koha ;>
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08:57 Amit heya Ropuch
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10:05 Nouman hi all
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10:52 gmcharlt good morning
10:57 chris hi gmcharlt
10:57 gmcharlt back and energized from a mini-vacation
10:59 chris excellent, and well deserved
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11:58 kf gmcharlt: around?
11:58 gmcharlt hi kf
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11:59 kf hi :)
12:01 kf gmcharlt: I have marc21 samples from our union catalog ready for you
12:01 gmcharlt kf: thanks
12:02 kf its about 5 mb - is email ok?
12:02 kf which address?
12:02 gmcharlt yep -
12:03 kf ok
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12:11 kf ok, sent
12:12 Amit heya kf, gmcharlt
12:13 gmcharlt hi Amit
12:13 gmcharlt kf: got it, thanks
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12:14 kf gmcharlt: ah, we normally do some changes before importing them into koha
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12:15 kf gmcharlt: we move authority numbers from our union catalog to $9 (withoug last number and (DE-576) and we use another utf-8 normalization
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12:17 kf gmcharlt: just let me know if you want me to convert the data for koha - my colleague wrote a python program for this task
12:17 gmcharlt kf: thanks - could you send me a copy of that python script?
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12:18 kf have to ask my colleague
12:21 kf gmcharlt: I will write him an email and ask for the script
12:24 chris_n morning
12:25 kf morning chris_n
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12:47 owen Hello quiet peoples of #koha
12:47 jdavidb hi, owen.  :)
12:48 jwagner When they're quiet, they're plotting things.....
12:48 owen Great things I hope
12:48 kf jwagner: you know us ;)
12:48 jwagner heh, heh
12:49 jwagner owen, you have small kids -- you know what it means when they're suspiciously quiet :-)
12:49 owen Yeah. Murder cover-up.
12:50 * jwagner makes mental note to be exceptionally noisy from now on.
12:50 * jdavidb has a little list....none of them will ever be missed...
12:55 * jwagner starts singing Julia Ecklar's "Black Widows In the Privy"
12:58 jwagner is now known as jwagner_meeting
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13:21 hilongo gooood morning #Koha :)
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13:35 owen Anyone up for a git question? "fatal: unable to chdir or not a git archive"
13:35 jdavidb Context?
13:35 owen Trying to git clone a remote repo.
13:36 owen "The remote end hung up unexpectedly"
13:36 jdavidb if the directory you're trying to clone to already exists, that's bad.  clone to a name that does not exist; also make sure the logged in user has write privs where you are intending to put it.   On the far end, make sure the clone url is correct;
13:36 jdavidb a typo there will cause that problem.
13:37 jdavidb (in the case of GitHub repos, the suffix .git is *always* needed)
13:38 owen I wonder if git would have a problem following a symbolic link?
13:38 jdavidb It might.
13:38 owen git clone ssh://
13:38 owen "public_html" is a symbolic link
13:39 jdavidb try the absolute directory spec?
13:41 owen Counting objects!
13:41 jdavidb :)
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14:42 jess i'm sorry that i wanna aske some question about Koha
14:43 jess can i develop my own cataloging sheme instead of MARC which koha defaulted?
14:44 owen jess: You could create your own framework
14:44 owen It would be very tedious to do, but it's possible
14:44 wizzyrea you never have to apologize for asking questions here. :)
14:44 wizzyrea and good morning.
14:45 kf good morning wizzyrea :)
14:45 jess good morning to you all~~^^
14:45 jess is it mean that i have to delete the default framework and create a new one?
14:46 owen It might be easier to create a new framework by cloning the default one. Then you could delete what you don't need and add anything that's missing
14:49 jess actually i'm doing my university assignment, and we are trying to develop a small size library about paint......
14:49 jess the metadata scheme we developed is totally different from MARC
14:51 wizzyrea ohh.
14:52 jess thus we are now puzzling whether there is open source ILS which can allow us to develop our own sheme....>.<
14:52 owen How would your own scheme differ from a MARC one?
14:55 jess for example, we would have the manufacturer's name, the function of the paint (e.g. interior emulsion, external emulsion etc.), the application of the paint (e.g. wood, wall, metal etc.), and the colour of the paint etc.
14:56 jess all of them are totally different from MARC, coz they are not print material....><
14:56 owen To have a system which would allow you to create your own schemes from scratch would involve quite a bit of abstraction
14:57 sekjal you could encode that information in MARC format.  You'd just need to define your own meaning to the various fields and subfields, which is done throught the MARC frameworks
14:57 owen You're talking about defining your own data structure, setting up a system for indexing and querying that structure, and setting up a system for outputting that data
14:57 sekjal so, as opposed to MARC21 and UNIMARC, you'd have PAINTMARC
14:58 hdl_laptop mmm... would result in many problems for indexing and sharing biblios
14:59 sekjal yes, the indexing would need to be rewritten, as well
14:59 sekjal and the bibs would not be standard in anyway
15:00 jess mm.....we know.......we have already write our own tagging system...
15:00 owen jess: Part of the reason an open source ILS works is that it uses standards which are shared by libraries around the world
15:00 owen Many many hours of work have gone into making the system work within those standards.
15:01 jess seems that i can't use koha to finish my assignment....
15:01 owen What exactly is the assignment?
15:01 jess the course call Metadata
15:02 jess we have to develop a metadata scheme for a topic and develop a database which can allow user to retrieve the information
15:03 jess the easiest one is just use MS access, but we want to have the OPAC for value added.....
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15:04 wizzyrea I don't think any of the foss ILS's would explicitly allow that :/
15:04 wizzyrea as owen said, they all follow the standards
15:04 jess seems that is impossible....
15:05 owen jess: Is programming part of your assignment?
15:05 sekjal Perhaps a CMS like Drupal or Joomla?
15:06 wizzyrea yea, i think there are wordpress plugins that let you do catalog-type stuff
15:06 wizzyrea which is really I think what you're looking for
15:06 wizzyrea like, store-type catalogs
15:06 wizzyrea not library type catalogs
15:06 wizzyrea 1s, let me look
15:07 jess yes...u're right, it isn't exactly a library catalog, we just need the function to searching..
15:08 jess it's just because we dont want to write the SQL lanuage, it's very troublesome
15:08 sekjal I'd recommend a CMS, then.  Wordpress is pretty great, and I think it may be faster to configure than Drupal or Joomla.
15:08 wizzyrea I would look into e commerce solutions
15:08 wizzyrea they will probably do what you need
15:09 wizzyrea[…]ns/wp-e-commerce/
15:09 wizzyrea as an example
15:09 jess thank you very much~~~u all help me a lot~~~^^
15:11 wizzyrea :) even when we can't help, we still try ;)
15:11 jess thanks a lot~~u all are so kind~~
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15:52 chris_n are we there yet?
15:54 paul_p hello chris_n & wizzyrea & owen & everybody
15:56 chris_n howdy paul_p
15:56 chris_n is it friday yet?
15:56 gmcharlt hi paul_p
15:57 gmcharlt chris_n: it's Friday ... nowhere, I'm afraid
15:57 * chris_n puts his head down and sobs into his keyboard
15:57 sekjal I've heard of this restaurant that advertises to the contrary...
15:57 paul_p chris_n, why are you asking about friday ? expecting for a week-end already ?
15:58 sekjal perhaps they have some kind of time dilator
15:58 kf it feels like monday...
15:58 * paul_p send chris_n a wave of spring sun from Marseille
15:58 chris_n paul_p: sometimes time moves verrrrry slooowww
15:59 paul_p chris_n, lucky man. For me, it's always too fast...
15:59 * chris_n will take all of the spring he can get
16:00 wizzyrea chris_n: hey, at least it's the day before the day before the day before friday
16:00 paul_p wizzyrea++
16:00 paul_p lol :D
16:00 chris_n paul_p: it all depends on prospective.... going to vacation takes forever... coming back is very fast ;)
16:00 chris_n wizzyrea: :)
16:01 wizzyrea I was going to say we are at the apex of distance from friday, but I think actually we're over that hump
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16:02 wizzyrea that being the point in the week at which you are equidistant from the last friday and your next one
16:02 wizzyrea equi-temporally-distant, I should say
16:02 wizzyrea am I being obtuse enough?
16:02 wizzyrea you are distracted now, nonetheless
16:02 wizzyrea ;)
16:02 paul_p wizzyrea, and this is really depending on your TZ !
16:02 wizzyrea paul_p: too true!
16:03 wizzyrea chris_n: you're only 2 days from friday if you're in NZ :P
16:03 hilongo So ... from now on... its all way down to next Friday .. :)
16:04 hilongo we'll have to relax... and slide
16:04 wizzyrea hilongo: yes, the sled of time is sliding ever nearer to friday. I say throw up your hands and scream all the way ;)
16:04 chris_n lol
16:06 wizzyrea oh good he's laughing now instead of sobbing
16:06 * wizzyrea wins
16:06 gmcharlt wizzyrea++
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16:12 * chris_n heads off in search of food
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16:15 paul_p chris_n, if you want to see some images of Marseille beaches, head here :[…]=plages&page_id=1
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16:23 kf ok, more koha tomorrow - bye all :)
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17:07 indradg chris, ping
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17:18 DRUlm Yes, it *is* 80 degress and like summer here - but I am replacing the firewall :)
17:18 DRUlm Glad to have the work mind you!
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17:42 chris_n @wunder 28334
17:42 munin chris_n: The current temperature in Dunn, North Carolina is 31.7�C (1:43 PM EDT on April 06, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 8%. Dew Point: -7.0�C. Pressure: 29.62 in 1002.9 hPa (Falling).
17:45 fredericd Does anyone has any issue with the way biblio data entry form handles mandatory fields and hidden subfields?
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17:49 thd fredericd: what issue are you having?
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17:49 fredericd thd: hello, how are you?
17:49 fredericd hidden subfields are not hidden
17:50 fredericd All subfields of a mandatory fiels are visible, even if they are supposed to be hidden
17:50 DRUlm Mandatory fields. Hmmm. Well, you need to setup the normal fields you use and then allow other ones that you might need as hidden.
17:50 DRUlm Really? I have not found that, what version?
17:51 fredericd head version
17:51 thd fredericd: would you have hidden mandatory subfields auto-filled?
17:51 fredericd thd: I don't understand...
17:52 thd fredericd: is the hidden subfield intended to be mandatory?
17:52 fredericd no
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17:54 thd The rules about hidden and mandatory are very blunt and not allow subtle conditions.
17:55 thd fredericd: Record editing needs a complete rewrite.
17:55 DRUlm Seems that way to a point
17:55 DRUlm Or a simple raw editor included as an option
17:55 DRUlm would solve many problems
17:55 fredericd I agree. In the meantime...
17:56 thd RRUlm: PTFS has released a currently non-free raw editor.
17:56 fredericd thd: It's not an editor.
17:57 thd fredericd: It could be used as an editor.
17:57 DRUlm No I just mean built into koha
17:58 thd DRUlm: Lack of being built into Koha is part of the reason the programmer had given for not releasing the code last year.
17:58 owen thd: Can you elaborate?
17:59 DRUlm Not really thinking about politics, just thinking about the software
17:59 slef evening
17:59 thd fredericd: I will come back to your problem quickly
18:00 thd owen: John Yokley tried to persuade the programmer Rashid to release the code last spring.
18:00 DRUlm Well, I agree, release the code!
18:01 thd owen: John Yokley told me that he would not order him to release the code.
18:01 slef date -d @1267556400 is not Tuesday, 6 April 2010 at 19:00 UTC+0 (spotted on[…]etingnotes10apr06 )
18:01 thd DRUlm: You have to persuade Rashid personally.
18:02 DRUlm I do?
18:02 thd Asking PTFS is not the best approach in this case.
18:02 slef I think it should be date -d @1270580400 - anyone agree?
18:02 owen This Rashid is not an employee of PTFS?
18:03 gmcharlt slef: yep, looks that way
18:03 gmcharlt i.e., community handover meeting is 56 minutes from now
18:03 thd owen: he is, I met him during the SLA conference
18:04 thd owen: I think that he is quite friendly but personally too much of a perfectionist too be very willing to release his code
18:04 DRUlm gmcharlt, what will go down at this meeting, voting?
18:04 owen As an employee of PTFS doesn't PTFS hold the copyright to his work?
18:04 thd owen: That is not the point
18:05 gmcharlt DRUlm: not much, I suspect - I'm not aware of any issues to vote on
18:05 thd owen: PTFS could have released the code a year ago
18:05 thd owen: The impression which I took is that PTFS has respect for the preference of programmers
18:06 gmcharlt DRUlm: main issue as Jo mentioned in her post earlier today is no progress on domains and trademark xfrs since last meeting
18:06 DRUlm Thanks, been up since 5am, starting to fade
18:06 thd owen: I sent a message to PTFS for Rashid giving good arguments for releasing the code last summer
18:07 gmcharlt DRUlm: there may be discussion of Kaitiaki, but I don't know if anybody has anything specific to say regarding that position
18:07 thd I am told that the message was passed on to Rashid
18:08 * owen wonders what other restrictions PTFS programmers are allowed to place on how their work is used
18:10 thd owen: think of it the other way round
18:11 thd owen: think of PTFS deferring to some extent to the choices of their employees
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18:12 thd owen: individual choices, such that if individuals are well motivated towards free software then that would be great
18:12 thd owen: I actually had a quite favourable impression of PTFS over this
18:12 slef In my experience, such setups don't work in favour of worker or software freedom, but I don't know what goes on in this particular case.
18:13 thd owen: the impression I had was that PTFS respected the views of their programmers
18:13 DRUlm Cool
18:13 owen I worry that PTFS could be using that as an out
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18:13 thd slef: the problem here is persuading one individual to give up clinging too tightly to his own standard of perfection
18:14 thd slef: I have the same problem, so I am sympathetic
18:14 owen Here's a way to think of it the other way round: what if a programmer was being paid to create software for a client and insisted that it be released as open source?
18:15 thd owen: They might be now with the acquisition of LibLime but there position had been very different a year ago.
18:15 thd owen: exactly
18:15 thd owen: That is a good way of looking at it.
18:15 chris i vote jdavidb insists LLEK is open source now
18:16 chris lets see how that goes
18:16 slef bbl (DST caught me out, again)
18:16 thd owen: Persuade the programmers individually and we will all be in a better situation.
18:16 DRUlm Ha
18:17 DRUlm There are good reasons to do so
18:17 thd chris: I think that the only problem is that programmer choice would not be decisive if a contract or policy prevents code release.
18:17 chris exactly
18:17 chris so its convient in this case
18:17 chris i call BS
18:17 chris and shenanigans
18:18 thd chris: I think that this case about the record editor is different.
18:18 gmcharlt thd: the record editor is a sideline (or side show?) in any event
18:18 slef there is another possible problem: instruct the programmers that they must oppose, but tell the world that licensing is responsibility of the programmers.  Not that I'm saying it happened here, but I've seen that sort of thing.
18:19 slef Combined with NDAs, it's a whole bundle of subterfuge.
18:19 DRUlm gmch: agreed
18:19 chris gmcharlt++
18:19 slef now really bbl
18:19 DRUlm we'll or just business. it is what it is
18:20 thd gmcharlt: I think that it may be less of a sideshow than would be evident
18:21 gmcharlt one of the beauties and flaws of a command-and-control company is that although an owner can and ought to accept input from the staff, ultimately the owner can just say that something has to get done already; conversely, the owner is always thereby responsible for the actions of the company
18:22 chris yup, the freeware release had ptfs/liblime's name all over it, not rashid
18:23 thd chris: I note that Rashid's name is prominent in the press release
18:23 owen It's a sign of how far we've come that the term "freeware" struck me as quaint
18:24 chris Liblime, a division of PTFS, has released its MARC Utilities – Metadata Converter, for the manipulation and editing of MARC records in batch mode.
18:24 thd chris: I would suggest that we start a conversation with Rashid personally in very positive terms.
18:24 thd chris: his name is not in the title of course
18:24 chris Liblime released the MARC Utilities editor in the hopes that this library freeware tool will make MARC data conversion easier for library staff and ILS database administrators.  Liblime invites all users to let us know if you have any comments or suggestions on enhancing or adding more functionality to MARC Utilities.
18:24 chris it doesnt say "persuade our employee for us since we can't"
18:25 chris it says contact liblime
18:25 thd chris: it would never say that
18:25 chris well it should, if thats the truth of the matter
18:25 nengard :)
18:25 thd chris: I am giving information which I know from a year ago
18:26 chris right, im sayng its not relevant
18:26 chris ptfs/liblime released it, ptfs/liblme own the decision not to release it as free software
18:26 thd chris: I think that it is relevant to how PTFS sometimes works as a company.
18:27 chris its how they told you they work
18:27 thd chris: I agree that they own the decision
18:27 thd chris: I am not trying to defend PTFS here
18:27 chris i dont know if thats true or not, all we can do is look at the results and the actions or inactions of them
18:27 chris so far
18:27 chris no action on
18:27 chris and releasing freeware
18:27 chris thats what the current tally is
18:28 thd chris: the question is what is the best way to effect a change towards the change we want.
18:28 chris thd: im actually past caring
18:28 thd chris: My information is that the best way is to persuade the individuals
18:29 chris i vote we just ignore the whole sideshow and when/if ptfs decide they want to interact with the project we'll still be here
18:30 chris theres bugs to fix, and releases to be made, lets worry about that
18:30 nengard chris++
18:30 owen I note also that no one got any on-list response from the person who posted the announcement to the Koha list
18:30 nengard heading to the city to do a presentation now ... kind of wish i didn't have to go
18:31 nengard talk to you all later
18:31 chris cya later
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18:31 thd chris: If I had taken the ignore them until they are ready approach, then they would not have been participating in the community the way they had last year.
18:32 chris well that's your call, so far emails from jo and i have been ignored, im not going to waste my time, there are many more things id rather use it on
18:33 thd chris: I would not expect big changes because understand that they are overwhelmed.
18:34 chris i call BS on that too
18:34 chris you dont wake up and buy a company
18:34 thd chris: They do not have enough people to meet the demands of LibLime customers yet.
18:34 chris its not like they had it sprung on them
18:35 chris and that stops a 2 line dns change?
18:35 DRUlm nengard, Arlington - yeah, west DC is better.
18:36 DRUlm Oh wait, C.I.L. has not started yet, next week
18:36 thd chris: I suspect that they are not likely to make such a change without considering it for a few months after addressing other issues first.
18:37 chris probably so, hence lets just not worry about it, and do stuff that is actually useful
18:37 DRUlm I think if they open the code up, it will take 2-3 months to do so, however, the longer the wait, the more differences, sooner would make more sense from an open source standpoint
18:37 chris DRUlm: it would take about 30 mins
18:37 chris to make a public repo
18:37 DRUlm Also, has there been a TarBall produced for LLEK yet, is there not supposed to be a release at least occasionally?
18:37 chris its already all licenses under the GPL, it has to be
18:38 DRUlm Yes, this is true.
18:38 chris the truth is there is no desire, not that its hard
18:38 DRUlm Decision making in business can be 90% of the overhead and tech 10% - depends how a company runs.
18:38 thd chris: If we are willing to accept for the moment what they may be willing to do shortly I think that we can have real progress even if we do not get what we would like.
18:38 thd chris: I think that you are right.
18:39 chris thd: im unconvinced we need them, they need the community, not the other way round
18:39 thd chris: Yet there is still much to be gained short of what we would like.
18:39 thd chris: I also agree
18:39 DRUlm It could take them years if a company has some large wing of decision makers. Who knows.
18:39 thd chris: I am willing to take what me be available.
18:40 chris and there is only wilful ignorance available as an excuse at this point
18:40 thd DRUlm: They are not that big.
18:40 chris since many many overtures have been made
18:40 DRUlm Oh, well. I guess there are decisions being made.
18:41 DRUlm So has there been a LLEK tarball yet?
18:41 chris so i say, lets just move on, and they'll do what they do, there are so many other things we could/should be talkng about instead
18:41 chris DRUlm: you are joking right? :)
18:41 DRUlm Isn't it based on the orginal Koha open source code? How can it not be released?
18:42 thd chris: They announced at ALA midwinter that they would not be making any changes affecting the LLEK business model for at least three months after acquisition.
18:42 chris it is all licensed under the same license, but they are not distributing it
18:42 sekjal LLEK is hosted-only, which gets around the GPL's requirement to release
18:42 chris they are only providing it as software as a service
18:43 DRUlm While the code is running remote on their servers, legally, parts of the code (like the HTML and JAvascript) run locally at a library, so I am not sure if the licence still applies since ALL the code is not running remote, much of it (and in this case, *any*) is running off their servers on the web-browser clients, so one would think by the licence even as it stands, it needs to be released
18:43 thd chris: I think that we do not need PTFS or LibLime but we would be better off with some cooperation from them that they would be willing to provide.
18:44 DRUlm Hosted, yes, but *much* of the code runs un-hosted on the browsers
18:44 chris DRUlm: better lawyers than I have tried that line ... it doesnt work hence the AGPL
18:44 DRUlm Nutty.
18:44 chris thd: when they decide that, we'll be right here
18:45 DRUlm Well, good luck.
18:45 thd chris: I know of some specific small things which I suspect that they would be willing to discuss now.
18:47 thd fredericd: sorry for neglecting your question.  (I have not been communicating much with others recently.)
18:48 thd fredericd: the way in which the mandatory flag functions for the record editor is problematical.
18:48 chris thd: so far all Jo and I have received is silence ... so feel free to continue yourself, but I'm not going to waste my time
18:49 DRUlm left #koha
18:51 thd chris: I have had the experience answering the telephone in a retail shop after some significant publicity where I had not time to do anything but answer the telephone for a few days.
18:52 chris thd: its not a new thing, its months
18:52 chris like i say, im not going to tell you what to do, but im not expending energy on it
18:52 thd chris: It is officially and actually a new thing despite months of planning.
18:53 chris no, the emails being ignored isnt new
18:54 thd chris: I have an advantage of proximity but I will not ask them anything directly on behalf of the community because I do not want to be treated in a formal way.
18:55 thd chris: Perhaps they need both a formal and informal approach.
18:55 chris thd: i feel sure they know what the community wants
18:56 chris they just need to decide what they want
18:56 chris in the meantime, lets fix some bugs instead
18:56 thd chris: We both know that they are not prepared to consider what the community wants most at this time.
18:57 chris the domain name?
18:57 chris yeah ive heard as much
18:57 Colin joined #koha
18:57 chris evening Colin
18:57 thd chris: I think that being too insistent about the domain at this time is only likely to obtain silence.
18:58 Colin hi all
18:58 chris thd: hence why i say, lets not bother
18:58 chris since thats all we actually want
18:59 thd chris: The answer to that question may ultimately be no, but there are real advantages short of that.
18:59 gmcharlt greetings folks - it's 19:00 UTC+0, time for the community handover IRC meeting
18:59 gmcharlt[…]etingnotes10apr06
18:59 wizzyrea you know, all I really want from ptfs is coopetition in the community.
19:00 wizzyrea I want them to behave like any other koha support company
19:00 wizzyrea like *every* other koha support company.
19:00 wizzyrea (that I know of)
19:00 gmcharlt wizzyrea++
19:00 chris Jo sends her apologies
19:00 thd wizzyrea++
19:01 gmcharlt let's do roll call
19:01 * gmcharlt = Galen Charlton, ESI
19:01 chris Chris Cormack, Catalyst
19:01 Colin Colin Campbell PTFS-Europe
19:01 * wizzyrea = Liz Rea, NEKLS
19:01 thd Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
19:01 owen Owen Leonard, Nelsonville Public Library
19:01 Sharon Sharon Moreland, NEKLS
19:01 slef MJ Ray, member of
19:02 sekjal Ian Walls, ByWater Solutions
19:04 brendan left #koha
19:04 gmcharlt so agenda is
19:04 gmcharlt - Welcomes and introductions.
19:04 gmcharlt - Report on Subcommittee
19:04 gmcharlt - Report on status of negotiations over assignment of trademarks and domains.
19:04 gmcharlt - Possible suggestions on unresolved negotiations.
19:04 gmcharlt - Next issues if negotiations have concluded.
19:04 gmcharlt - Agree time of next meeting.
19:05 chris i can take the first one
19:05 * Ropuch = Piotr Wejman, Biblioteka CSNE
19:05 chris the subcommittee decided not to meet yet, as there is no pressing business
19:09 gmcharlt and Jo answered the second point, I believe - no change re status of negotiations
19:09 chris which pretty much is the same answer for the 2nd point too
19:09 chris yup :)
19:10 Nouman left #koha
19:10 chris_n <= Chris Nighswonger, FBC
19:10 gmcharlt so on to suggestions for unresolved negotiations - as chris says, we're here
19:10 collum Garry Collum, KCPL
19:10 gmcharlt if/when PTFS is ready to to discuss openly
19:11 chris openly++
19:11 chris back_room_deals--
19:13 owen Given the impasse we're at now, is there a point in holding regular handover meetings?
19:14 thd are there not other parties and is there not other business?
19:14 gmcharlt owen: possibly not, except as a vehicle for dealings of the Koha Committee of the HLT
19:15 wizzyrea oh, one thing I would like to talk about very briefly: I am planning on changing how the support company news is displayed on
19:15 wizzyrea I would like to change it from a "post on our site" to an aggregate of all of your individual news feeds
19:15 wizzyrea 1. less work for you and me and 2. more fair
19:15 gmcharlt wizzyrea: +1
19:16 thd wizzyrea: What would be aggregated and in what manner?
19:16 wizzyrea RSS feeds of press releases, through yahoo pipes.
19:17 thd wizzyrea: Use them if they work for you but yahoo pipes are non-free.
19:17 wizzyrea thd: noted.
19:18 slef wizzyrea: feedwordpress worksforme
19:19 thd wizzyrea: multiple companies would aggregate feeds together or each company would aggregate its feed separately?
19:19 gmcharlt I would a imagine that each company would provide a relevant RSS feed or feeds to be included in the aggregator at wizzyrea's discretion?
19:19 chris wizzyrea: works for me
19:20 wizzyrea I think the latter, I'm depending on the companies to provide the news
19:20 wizzyrea I"m just collecting it
19:20 wizzyrea and outputting it on our site
19:20 slef left #koha
19:20 chris i like that much better than them being posts there
19:20 slef joined #koha
19:20 * slef glares at ERC
19:20 thd wizzyrea: thanks, I was merely confused about how the difference would actually appear
19:21 wizzyrea Aha :)
19:21 francharb left #koha
19:21 wizzyrea well, tell you what, if you give me a lil time here, I will have an example and you can *see* what I"m talking about :)
19:21 thd slef: ERC
19:22 thd slef: ERC?
19:22 slef thd: the IRC client I use.
19:22 wizzyrea the reason I want to change it is that we currently really only have one support company posting things
19:22 wizzyrea I know the others have had releases
19:22 wizzyrea but they are not posting them on
19:22 wizzyrea (laziness, poutiness, you name it)
19:23 wizzyrea (busy-ness)
19:23 wizzyrea (more likely the 3rd)
19:23 thd wizzyrea: I am all for anything that gives even the appearance of more fairness
19:23 wizzyrea they *are* posting them on their own sites though
19:23 wizzyrea and rather than copy/paste, this seems like a fairer solution
19:24 slef Basically, every hour we spend reposting news releases is an hour not spent on developing cool features for our users or supporting k-c.  I already have things I want to add to k-c when I get comfortable with it.
19:24 wizzyrea oh, and I am still working on the directory
19:24 wizzyrea looking for solutions there
19:24 slef That's one of them :)
19:24 wizzyrea slef++
19:24 wizzyrea :)
19:24 chris yeah, aggregate rss feeds seems like a much better plan
19:25 wizzyrea alright, I shall make it so then.
19:25 chris i mean thats what its for, syndication :)
19:25 wizzyrea ty for your time
19:25 gmcharlt wizzyrea++
19:25 sekjal thank you, wizzyrea!
19:26 slef wizzyrea: Thanks for your work.  I'm horribly intermittent today, but I should talk to you about what we can do most helpfully.
19:26 chris re the meeting, i think we should leave the next one unscheduled, and call one if/when we need it
19:26 wizzyrea whenever you're ready slef ;)
19:26 chris the general meeting can catch pretty much everythng we want to discuss
19:27 slef maybe just add a quick report on the subcommittee to the generals?
19:27 chris that'd work
19:28 thd are there not other parties aside from PTFS/LibLime who may have yet to be asked about community related assets?
19:28 wizzyrea oh, which also means: if you have a news feed URL, send it to me, please. PM's/Email/carrier pigeon, all work.
19:29 wizzyrea I'm going out looking for them but if I miss you, send me the urls, please.
19:31 slef thd: I don't remember our current situation.  Let me look it up.
19:31 * chris_n goes out to dispatch a covey of pigeons
19:33 slef We asked if HLT would offer FOSS-friendly trademark terms which would allow us to enter some sort of agreement and we are waiting for reply since 10 February.
19:33 slef bbi10ish
19:35 chris slef: its pretty much impossible to trademark koha in nz
19:35 thd As I understand the issue which slef may be raising, using a mark in business without evident permission is a criminal offence in the UK.
19:35 chris but for the EU one, im sure the subcomittee could deal with that
19:35 thd chris: slef is not concerned about what would happen to him in NZ :)
19:36 chris slef: want to send me an email with what it would entail and ill raise it
19:38 chris afaik we are still waiting on bureaucrats for the transfer, once its done im sure terms that are foss friendly can be worked out
19:40 slef back
19:40 slef chris: will do.
19:40 slef thd: it should be similar in most WIPO nations, as I understand it.
19:41 chris acta will fix all that
19:41 chris WIPO is being relegated
19:41 * chris be's pessimistic
19:42 thd slef: I think that trademarks are still only a civil matter in the US.
19:42 slef thd: however, hold pre-existing rights which I understand should protect us, and also invalidate the CTM registration attempt (aka the EU one) if we don't agree to it.
19:43 slef chris: *sigh* when I'm done with the Digital Economy (destruction) Bill, I'll take a look at ACTA :-(
19:43 chris thd: acta will fix that too
19:44 jwagner_meeting is now known as jwagner
19:45 cait joined #koha
19:45 chris slef: next round of acta negotiations are here
19:46 chris nz are pushing for openness .. but we are small fry
19:46 chris i suspect we will just be bullied, like anyone not the US or EU
19:46 slef oh well, is being dissolved soon, so maybe I can raise it in the campaigns
19:47 owen Is the meeting still on or can I ask a Koha question?
19:47 chris ah yeah, saw that on the news, may 4th election?
19:47 chris owen: i think ts finished
19:47 owen Anyone know about where items.cn_sort comes from? I've got a couple of variations on the kind of data there
19:47 * chris has 10 mins before the bus
19:47 chris ahhh
19:47 chris yeah i did know that
19:48 owen Example one: 204_420000000000000_JA Example two: 205.677 My
19:48 chris its supposed to be a sortable version of the callnumber
19:48 chris but yeah, its broken
19:48 chris i did a patch for someone at waldo, it got thrown in the bin i think
19:48 chris ill find it
19:49 owen Is Koha generating that long version of the call number?
19:49 chris yes
19:49 slef chris: I thought 6th May but I've not seen the news today.  Been busy working.
19:49 chris owen: it pads it to make it sortable
19:49 Colin yes 6th of may
19:49 chris Colin: shows how much attention i was paying, i got distracted by the puppets in the background :)
19:49 owen chris: My initial assumption was that the shorter format call numbers were older data before the sortable version was developed
19:49 chris owen: could well be
19:50 slef how well are patches getting into koha mainline at the moment?  I think I have ones on gitorious koha smallbugs branch waiting.
19:50 chris but i do know that the sort routine doesn't fully work
19:50 owen chris:  The routine for generating the sortable version?
19:50 chris slef: gmcharlt is still the release manager for master, so send a request to pull
19:51 chris (or if its 3.0.x its still hdl .. same thing applies)
19:51 chris owen: yes, at least i think thats what i am remembering
19:51 gmcharlt slef: working on clearing out backlog - there will be pushes tomorrow
19:52 chris owen: if you send me an email (i use my inbox as my todo list) ill look into it on my lunch
19:52 slef smallbugs is for 3.0.x
19:52 chris slef: hdl_laptop is your man then
19:52 slef I've sent pull requests.
19:53 slef will resend
19:53 chris cool
19:53 chris ok bus time
19:53 ebegin joined #koha
19:54 wizzyrea[…]s/press-releases/
19:55 wizzyrea these are the first 3 I have added.
19:55 sekjal thanks, wizzyrea.  looks good to me.
19:55 slef now in kitchen... no web here... will look in 70mins or so
19:57 slef ok, bye all
19:57 wizzyrea ty for the feedpress suggestion
19:57 wizzyrea just what I needed
19:58 jwagner left #koha
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20:14 owen Bye all
20:14 owen left #koha
20:15 cait good night #koha
20:15 cait left #koha
20:18 collum left #koha
20:19 sjeffery left #koha
20:20 Colin left #koha
20:27 Jo joined #koha
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20:31 richard joined #koha
20:31 richard hi
20:31 Jo hiya
20:35 jdavidb left #koha
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20:43 chris back
20:49 Jo hita Chris.
20:49 Jo hiya
20:49 Jo just read the logs of the meeting.
20:49 gmcharlt hi Jo
20:49 Jo Hi Galen
20:49 Jo sorry about that folks.
20:50 Jo the boys got invited to stay on a dairty farm for a week and its been a blind panic arranging gumboots and raincoats and booking buses etc .. anyway they are now safely off on their first unaccompanied bus trip to the middle of nowhere
20:51 Jo and I'm a nervous wreck .... just breathing. Anyone who kidnapped my boys wouldn't keep them for long :)
20:51 larsw joined #koha
20:52 wizzyrea hehe
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22:08 * jdavidb notes chris's nomination of 18:15 server time, and declines; he prefers to be still working, over abrupt unemployment.
22:16 rhcl2 does anybody understand this?
22:17 rhcl2 I must be too tired, but whatever (s)he's trying to say confustes me
22:19 chris jdavidb: :-)
22:19 larsw "open source programmers don't do it for the money, we do it to express ourselves" -- that's delusional
22:19 chris jdavidb: it was tongue in cheek :-)
22:19 jdavidb :)
22:20 rhcl2 Public IP's software is mostly open source. It's been built using 100% open source (commercial licensing has been purchased for some of the source code to avoid re-releasing modified code as specified in the GPL).
22:20 rhcl2 The ideal of open source drives Public IP.
22:20 rhcl2 so which is it?
22:21 rhcl2 I should have put quotes around the above
22:21 rhcl2 is now known as rhcl_away
22:22 chris i think they are going for the ideal of open source, not free software maybe :)
22:37 chris_n wow...[…]es/us2010utc5.php
22:37 chris ack
22:37 * chris goes to check
22:38 chris i always have an urge to check the traffic graphs whenever any news breaks
22:38 chris_n yeah, the pipes fill up quick
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