IRC log for #koha, 2009-12-01

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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00:15 Genji ah.. so doing 'not jn=55,435,34,234' is the wrong way? each journal number has to have its on jn=?
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02:52 genji-laptop Yay, got the not jn query working. I was doing jn=value,value,value...... instead, its actually 'not jn=value1 not jn=value2' etc
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03:14 CGI169 hey guys
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03:14 pianohacker Good evening
03:14 CGI169 where are yall from
03:14 CGI169 lol im like near russia right now
03:15 CGI169 and im outside
03:15 CGI169 its freezing
03:15 CGI169 thank goodness i found a chatroom
03:15 CGI169 i cant access anything
03:15 CGI169 it's all blocked
03:16 genji-laptop chris: Liblime acquired the koha division of Katipo..... yet you are not in liblime.... who have they actually got that was in katipo?
03:16 chris no one
03:16 chris we all left
03:16 chris as have most of their staff
03:16 genji-laptop chris: ...... acquisition fail then huh?
03:16 CGI169 what is this room about
03:17 chris genji-laptop: yeah fundamentally difference philosophies on what FLOSS is about
03:17 chris different even
03:17 pianohacker CGI169: http://www.koha.org/, open source library management software
03:17 pianohacker CGI169: If you have to ask, it'll probably bore you ;)
03:17 CGI169 oh ok
03:17 CGI169 no it wont
03:18 genji-laptop CGI169: Welcome to #koha. Its a support channel for Koha.... the Open-source intergrated library system. issues, returns, renewals, patron details, overdue accounts, acquisitions.... Its all here.
03:18 CGI169 oh i see lol
03:18 CGI169 im in the military
03:18 CGI169 and i was just looking for something to do
03:18 genji-laptop the russian military?
03:19 CGI169 no
03:19 CGI169 im just located near russia
03:19 genji-laptop ah.. okay.
03:19 CGI169 US
03:19 * genji-laptop ummms.... "Im not sure your supposed to be giving away your position, soldier."
03:19 CGI169 its ok
03:20 CGI169 it's a known location
03:20 genji-laptop uhhuh...... do you have a bbc news article referencing your div's deployment?
03:20 CGI169 yes
03:21 genji-laptop ah okay then.
03:21 CGI169 im jus wondering if obama has made any decision regarding the increase in troops
03:22 * chris has no idea, im in NZ so dont follow the US military that much
03:22 * CGI169 didnt know lol
03:22 CGI169 i used to go on mirc back in the day
03:23 CGI169 @ dalnet
03:23 munin CGI169: Error: "dalnet" is not a valid command.
03:23 CGI169 ?
03:23 genji-laptop munin = bot
03:23 munin genji-laptop: Error: "=" is not a valid command.
03:23 CGI169 lol
03:24 CGI169 alright
03:24 genji-laptop CGI169: also be aware that this channel is being logged. don't say anything that you don't want made permanantly available.
03:24 CGI169 i know
03:24 CGI169 i havent said anything important
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03:25 Amit heya brendan, chris
03:25 CGI169 hi amit
03:25 Amit hi CGI169
03:25 CGI169 where are u from
03:26 Amit I am from India u?
03:29 genji-laptop chris: so... if they failed... why don't they admit it, and sell it all back to katipo, or to a Koha foundation .... which the community is already setting up?
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03:30 chris im not sure they think they failed
03:30 genji-laptop So, they succeeded.. but not in the way the community hoped, eh?
03:31 chris well i dont think they succeeded
03:31 chris im just saying i cant speak for what they think
03:31 genji-laptop ahh.
03:31 chris they certainly have succeeded in backing themselves into a corner
03:32 genji-laptop LEF = vendor lock in?
03:32 genji-laptop err.. LEK.
03:33 chris well considering you can only get it from one vendor, then yep
03:33 genji-laptop which is contary to the concept of koha..... funnily enough, they say 'no vendor lock in' on their ... 'our' website.
03:34 chris *nod*
03:34 pianohacker Your _data_ might theoretically not be locked in
03:34 pianohacker But with normal koha, you could move to a version hosted by yourself or a different vendor, and expect the same features to be available
03:34 pianohacker LEK means, in effect, feature lock-in
03:34 chris yep
03:34 chris and database changes
03:35 genji-laptop you 'could' get someone else to look at your problems. Most likely liblime because no one else would have the knowledge to fix things, right?
03:35 chris no one else has access to the code
03:35 pianohacker Well, we can offer general advice, based on guesses on what has changed
03:35 genji-laptop ... isn't that against the GPL?
03:35 chris you can only get liblime to do it, its run as SaaS, they dont actually have access
03:35 chris no
03:35 chris not against the letter of GPLv2
03:35 genji-laptop ah... System as a service......
03:35 chris since they haven't distributed it
03:36 genji-laptop all hosted on their machines..
03:36 chris definitely against the spirit of it
03:36 pianohacker it's against the Affero GPL, but I think that was regarded by most as a step too far in the other direction
03:36 chris *nod*
03:36 pianohacker (and would be impossible to do retroactively)
03:36 genji-laptop And if liblimes upstream internet provider goes down... how many lib's lose access to their intranet?
03:36 chris thats the problem with cloud services
03:37 pianohacker yup
03:37 pianohacker but of course that never happens™
03:37 genji-laptop Ballpark figure, for postarity... how many?
03:37 pianohacker ... libraries hosted on lek?
03:37 * genji-laptop nods.
03:38 chris no idea
03:38 pianohacker Dunno. From press release volume, at least ten groups/libraries (including the ASCC consortium here in colorado, which has a fair amount of libraries)
03:42 genji-laptop anyway, got to go now. working on getting a cisco ip phone logged into asterisk. Thanks for the help and conversation, all.
03:45 pianohacker genji-laptop: glad to talk, have a good evening and good luck with the phone
03:51 pianohacker Good night
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06:41 Ropuch Good morning
07:02 chris hi Ropuch
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07:26 chris morning nicomo
07:27 Ropuch Hi chris, nicomo
07:27 imp moinsen
07:30 nicomo hi Ropuch
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07:49 paul_p2 hello world
07:49 paul_p2 chris_n++ (for the mail to Adrea Lund)
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08:00 kf good morning #koha
08:00 imp heyho kf
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08:45 Genji greetings all.
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08:56 kf hi Genji
08:59 Genji hiya kf. whats your connection to koha, im curious?
09:01 kf i m working at a German institution providing support for koha
09:02 nahuel hi all:)
09:06 Genji ah cool!
09:18 Amit heya kf, nahuel
09:18 nahuel heya
09:23 kf hi Amit and nahuel
09:23 kf Genji: and yours? ;)
09:30 Ropuch Guten Morgen, kf [;
09:31 kf hi Ropuch :)
09:35 Genji kf: Developer of Koha for a Saudi Arabian medical journal private library.
09:38 Genji so, nitty gritty coding level.
09:39 Genji worse than usual. its koha 3.0 code. not 3.04 or anything like that.
09:41 hdl_laptop Genji: are you sticking to 3.0 because you worked much on this release ?
09:44 Genji The saudi arabian library did work, making it truely Arabic compliant. (volume grammer etc, skip words like 'to' .. the arabic equivilent, ) and they are afraid of loosing their mods. That and they want features right now. They can't really afford time or $ on bringing their code up to current stable.
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11:45 magnusenger hm, i'm having some zebra weirdness... i have a file with 400k marc records, and bulkmarcimport'ed 1000 records from it into a virtual machine on my desktop with the -n switch, then did rebuild_zebra. A search for "oslo" gave 350 hits.
11:45 magnusenger Then I imported 10.000 records and did rebuild_zebra: http://blogg.enger.priv.no/wp-[…]rebuild_zebra.png - then a search for "oslo" only gave 85 hits, but the number is increasing steadily
11:46 magnusenger Looks like rebuild_zebra didn't actually do much the last time, and now zebraqueue_demon is slowly indexing the records?
11:47 magnusenger from what rebuild_zebra says in the screen dump i thought running it was a success, exept for one record - could that one record have messed it all up?
11:57 hdl_laptop yes
11:58 hdl_laptop if there is a failure on one record, indexing doesnot go further
11:59 magnusenger A ha, so when it says "Records: 10000 i/u/d 9999/1/0" that means failure?
12:00 magnusenger To my uneducated eye it looks like the error message could have been a bit less discreet... ;-)
12:01 hdl_laptop no.
12:02 hdl_laptop here it says : 9999 inserted
12:02 hdl_laptop 1 updated
12:02 hdl_laptop 0 deleted
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12:04 magnusenger hm, not sure i quite understand that, then...
12:04 magnusenger Shouldn't the 9999 inserted records be searchable?
12:05 hdl_laptop yes they should
12:07 magnusenger ah, but they are not. Indexing 1K records gives more hits for "oslo" than indexing 10K records...
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12:10 magnusenger ...initially, but the number is increasing slowly each time i do the search
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12:46 hdl_laptop magnusenger: very strange
12:48 jwagner Good morning all.
12:48 kf good morning jwagner
12:49 chris_n g'morning
12:51 kf @karma work
12:51 munin kf: Karma for "work" has been increased 0 times and decreased 1 time for a total karma of -1.
12:51 jdavidb harrrrumph!
12:51 jdavidb work--
12:51 kf hi jdavidb
12:51 jdavidb Hi, kf. :)
12:51 kf work-- #for imp
12:52 kf @karma work
12:52 munin kf: Karma for "work" has been increased 0 times and decreased 3 times for a total karma of -3.
12:52 imp :D
12:57 jwagner @karma vacation
12:57 munin jwagner: vacation has neutral karma.
12:57 jwagner vacation++
12:57 paul_p good morning USA !
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12:57 jwagner Bonjour Europe!
12:57 nengard moring paul
12:57 nengard and all
12:57 jdavidb vacation++ #agrees with jwagner, even though he doesn't know what a vacation looks like...
12:58 paul_p nengard: moring, really ? I don't know what it means, but thank you :D :D
12:58 nengard oh boy - it's still early and my fingers are very cold - hard to type :)
12:59 jwagner You sure that's not mooring, as in mooring a boat?
12:59 jwagner (und Guten Tag, kf)
12:59 paul_p jwagner: there's a see in Marseille, so maybe it's mooring. But I don't have any boat...
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13:38 jdavidb Howdy, owen!
13:38 owen Hi
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14:24 owen nengard around?
14:24 nengard yup
14:24 schuster I am looking for a way to know what the next bib number is or the last one?  suggestions?
14:24 schuster So great to have her around... nengard... ;)
14:24 owen Hi nengard, I've got a question about the Koha Facebook page
14:25 owen I just got a tweet from the kohails account pointing to this page: http://www.facebook.com/note.p[…]32171335&comments
14:25 owen (yeah I know it's in another language)
14:25 owen But the thing is...there's no URL or anything
14:26 owen It's confusing even for posts in English!
14:26 nengard hmmm - hang on
14:26 nengard owen - are you referring to the most recent tweet :  http://twitter.com/kohails
14:27 nengard if so it's an update to the wiki - I pull the wiki RSS feed in and that's the link it generates - is there a better feed to pull in?  I found it confusing at first too - but this way you're taking to the page that lists what has changed
14:27 owen Sorry, I'm getting my social media updates mixed up
14:28 owen I guess it was a Facebook notification, because the link I followed took me to the Facebook page above
14:29 owen The "Koha Integrated Library System's Notes" page on Facebook.
14:30 owen Oh wait, now I see it
14:30 owen There's a "View Original Post" link. That's what I wasn't seeing.
14:30 owen Never mind!
14:39 nengard :)
14:40 nengard no prob - and you're right - the same content is sent to Facebook & to Twitter
14:40 nengard I use the Yahoo! Pipe to feed them all
14:40 nengard http://pipes.yahoo.com/nengard/kohablogs
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14:45 Melanie Hi.  Does anyone use Amazon.com for the book jackets/reviews?  Our reviews don't seem show up.
14:45 hdl_laptop which version are you using ?
14:45 Melanie 3.01.00.032
14:47 Colin are you seeing none at all or just very rare ones?
14:48 owen Melanie: I think Amazon content is broken for all LibLime customers who haven't been migrated to LEK
14:49 owen We're on the same version (last updated sometime in June)
14:50 jdavidb "it's a *feature*!"   :P
14:53 nengard LOL
14:53 nengard jdavidb is a trouble maker - but he's a funny trouble maker :) hehe
14:54 nengard anyway - Melanie - I believe biblibre fixed that issue with Amazon Reviews with a patch that is available in the most recent version of Koha
14:54 nengard and will obviously be in 3.2
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14:57 hdl_laptop 3.0.4_fixed and 3.0.5 already integrates those things
14:57 paul_p Melanie: 3.0.5 will be released soon, don't try to get it now ;-)
14:58 owen Melanie is a LibLime hosted customer, so it's not up to her ;)
14:58 paul_p Melanie: LL customers with official Koha are still with 3.0.2 (dunno the reason, except to try to convince ppl to move to LEK)
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15:03 owen In LibLime's defense (gasp!), their goal is to get all their customers on the same version. I just disagree about which version that should be.
15:04 owen I sympathize with their desire to keep things simple by keeping their customers on the same version. I imagine other support companies face the same challenge.
15:05 Colin I think every vendor's tried and all have failed
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15:05 jwagner Certainly one of the issues I have is that apart from the actual codebase various customers want individual screen changes ranging from the very simple to the very complex.
15:06 owen jwagner: And you don't just say no? :)
15:06 paul_p jwagner: in this case we say: "OK, but you won't be in standard koha, and that will cost €X to maintain" ( X being BIG ;-) )
15:07 jwagner We try to accomodate where possible.  (But I have been known to say NO! to a few things.)  I need to go back and see if any of them can be handled through jquery, but there will still be some local template changes to merge with whatever the baseline code is.
15:07 paul_p it's better than just say "no", and our customers understand quickly the caveat
15:07 Colin So many customers seem to interpret a no as yes and its my top priority
15:08 jwagner Amazing how customers have selective hearing problems like that :-)
15:08 paul_p Colin: lol...
15:08 * jdavidb isn't saying *nuffin* about certain customers from New Jersey...
15:08 paul_p sometime, we also say : "ohhh... it could be a good idea, but, well, it's too frenchy, and the community will never accept that"
15:09 paul_p ( a trick you can't use ;-) )
15:09 jwagner A lot of the fiddly patches I've sent out for display changes are stuff that customers have asked for.  If more than one asks for the same thing, I figure it's worth doing as a patch.
15:09 paul_p (you could try "it's too US, the frenchies won't like that", but i'm not sure it will work...)
15:09 jwagner paul_p, but we could say "it's too Yank!" :-)
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15:09 bebbi Hallo kf
15:10 kf bebbi: hello bebbi
15:10 bebbi Hallo. Gerade eine Sekunde Zeit? Man sagte mir, du k�nntest mir vielleicht helfen ...
15:11 bebbi Aber da warst du nicht online hier im Chat ...
15:11 paul_p hey, fun, I can still understand a few german ;-)
15:12 paul_p (learned at school 24 years ago)
15:12 bebbi That's fine ... :-)
15:12 kf bebbi: um was geht es? hatte gerade noch ein kurzes Meeting
15:13 owen paul_p: It was almost as long ago that I studied French
15:14 Melanie thanks for the info.
15:15 nengard sorry we weren't of more help :(
15:15 paul_p Melanie: Hélas, i'm afraid we will have to write that more and more ( LEK is not Koha ) :'((((
15:15 bebbi Also: ich habe XP und will koha installieren. Die letzte windows Version ist schon etwas �lter, weil es wohl Portierungsprobleme gibt. Wir hatten hier im Chat dann soweit �berelgt, das dei einzige sinnvolle M�glichkeit h�chstens sein k�nnte eine virtuele maschine zu installieren und das Image von koha als Laufwerk da einzubinden *sowas noch nie gemacht hab* (Einen Server habe ich nicht zur Verf�gung). Aber die Mitdiskutanten war
15:15 bebbi en der Meinung, ich solle dich noch mal fragen ... ich will die aktuelle Version halt vor allem auch deswegen, weil es da ja die deutsche Benutzeroberfl�che gibt ...
15:16 Melanie yea.....
15:17 kf bebbi: soweit ich weiss war die letzte lauffähige version unter windows 2.2.0
15:17 kf 2.2.9
15:18 bebbi Paul_p: Seven years and a half ago i had my last english lesson at school and i was'nt good ... To iinterpret a text is even in German nothink for me ... :-(
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15:19 paul_p bebbi: you should come here more often, you'll learn English + get some help from all around the world (from france -me-) to USA - nengard, jdavidb, jwagner, owen - and New Zealand - chris -
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15:20 paul_p hi Nate, 'morning
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15:20 Nate Hiya paul_p!
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15:21 * jdavidb waves a greeting to bebbi.
15:21 bebbi Paul_p: i don't know so much words ... and - I think so - the problem ist, that you doesn't learn to talk in reality outside the school ...
15:21 jdavidb bebbi, I can understand you very well.  :)
15:22 jdavidb (And I don't have any other languages, besides English.)
15:22 jwagner jdavidb, that's not true.  You speak Texan!
15:22 kf :)
15:22 jdavidb harrrumph!
15:23 Nate and a good morning to everyone!
15:24 jwagner heh, heh
15:24 paul_p mine was quite good, thanks Nate ;-)
15:24 kf good morning Nate
15:24 kf bebbi: sometimes I think everybody here knows at least a little German
15:25 jwagner I had about a year's worth of German in college, but I've forgotten most of it.  Ich spreche nur ein bischen Deutsch...
15:25 kf jwagner: which is a perfect German sentence :)
15:26 jwagner I think I'm missing some diacritics, and I'm not sure about the spelling, but it gets the meaning across....
15:28 jwagner I learned just enough German to travel in Germany without being totally lost if I needed directions or help.
15:29 jwagner is now known as jwagner_meeting
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15:29 kf jwagner: where have you been in Germany?
15:33 jdavidb is now known as jdavidb_meeting
15:35 bebbi Jdavidb: I think, i make so much mistakes ... but I say to me "If the people unterstand you, it's all right :-) "
15:38 bebbi Jdavidb: I had to (It's the right past to must, or?) leard alidle bit of latin and old-greek and old-hebrew - but it's "f�r die Tonne" we say in Germany (means: you can't do anythink with it)
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15:42 kf bye #koha :)
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15:47 magnusenger hm, i've been seeing a bit of this lately: "DBD::mysql::db do failed: The total number of locks exceeds the lock table size at /usr/share/koha/bin/migrati​on_tools/bulkmarcimport.pl line 116." Anyone got an idea what i'm doing or not doing wrong?
15:48 hdl_laptop magnusenger: are you trying to bulkimport while having rebuild_zebra crojob active ?
15:48 paul_p magnusenger: it's a truncate biblio on a large DB
15:48 paul_p ?
15:49 magnusenger hdl_laptop: yup, not a good idea?
15:49 paul_p not a good idea, definetly ;-)
15:49 magnusenger paul_p: yes, about 400k records
15:49 hdl_laptop you might end up screwing your server
15:49 hdl_laptop because you start rebuild_zebra over and over again.
15:50 paul_p the foreign key constraint on biblio/biblioitems/items make truncate biblio fail on large DB. I had to do "DELETE FROM items WHERE biblionumber > 300 000"
15:50 paul_p the > 200 000, then 100 000, then biblioitems, then biblio
15:50 hdl_laptop rebuild_zebra cronjob should test whether a previous job is running or not
15:50 paul_p a little bit slower, but works
15:51 paul_p (another possibility I didn't try would be to do : SET FOREIGN_KEY_CHECK=0, then truncate biblio,biblioitems,items, then SET FOREIGN_KEY_CHECK=1
15:51 hdl_laptop but at the moment doesnot do that.
15:51 magnusenger hdl_laptop: actually, i don't have rebuild_zebra running from cron, but i have the two daemons, which may be the same thing?
15:51 paul_p ( magnusenger you've 2 solutions for 1 problem ...)
15:52 magnusenger paul_p: a "luxury problem" as we say in Norwegian...
15:52 hdl_laptop magnusenger: mmm koha-zebraqueue-ctl.sh is really slow to index.
15:52 magnusenger hdl_laptop: well, seems to do the job quite well for my customer with 13K records...
15:53 hdl_laptop 12000 biblios is not the same as 400000
15:53 magnusenger hdl_laptop: am i right in thinking that koha-zebraqueue-ctl.sh could interfere with bulkmarcimport.pl in the same way as rebuild_zebra.pl?
15:54 magnusenger hdl_laptop: true that! ;-)
15:55 magnusenger so: i'll try deleting from biblio,biblioitems,items "by hand", stopping cronjobs and queue-daemons and then try to import/index again. Thanks for these tips!
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16:12 bebbi Jwagner: " I learned just enough German to travel in Germany without being totally lost if I needed directions or help." I think, that's enough ... some months ago in was in the rench speeking Swiss ... and i ask a postman if he can change my money ... but i cann't french and he only french ... :-(
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16:30 jwagner_meeting is now known as jwagner
16:37 jwagner bebbi, Ich verstehe le probleme :-)
16:37 bebbi :-)
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17:14 Rob Does anyone know of a Koha implementation in or around Zambia?
17:15 Melanie Can anyone give me a KOHA library site that the amazon reviews work on?
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17:29 brendan Melanie http://demo.bywatersolutions.com
17:29 brendan http://demo.bywatersolutions.c[…]iblionumber=12307
17:29 Melanie thanks
17:37 chris Melanie: do you have a syspref set for AWSPrivateKey ?
17:38 chris since august, amazon have required that, and reviews simply dont work unless you have that set
17:40 chris i just tested with mine http://opac.koha.workbuffer.or[…]pl?biblionumber=6
17:40 chris was getting no reviews until i set that system preference
17:40 * chris will bbiab
17:42 * nengard watching coda try to catch the annoying fly that has been nagging us
17:42 nengard hehe
17:44 jwagner is now known as jwagner_lunch
17:46 owen nengard: I had a dog do that with a bee, and after that she was afraid of anything that flew and buzzed.
17:46 nengard awwww :(
17:46 nengard bees I get out of the house ASAP - flies I just ignore until they die
17:47 nengard one of the things you learn to deal with with dogs - always opening and closing the doors
17:51 Colin joined #koha
17:52 wizzyrea oh, melanie
17:52 wizzyrea you are on liblime, we don't have that option yet
17:53 wizzyrea it's not in our codebase
17:53 wizzyrea for the aws key
17:53 wizzyrea NEKLS doesn't have it either.
17:53 wizzyrea (very annoying)
17:53 paul_p left #koha
17:55 * jdavidb waves at wizzyrea.
18:06 * wizzyrea waves at jdavidb "hiya!"
18:07 jdavidb :)
18:09 Genji And with liblime, no instant new features. you'll have to wait until they add it. Why are you using liblime?
18:09 wizzyrea Gengi: we got in before it sucked.
18:10 Genji Ah, and now your stuck with it, can't go back?
18:10 wizzyrea Gengi: we're not particularly happy about the current state of affairs.
18:10 wizzyrea Gengi: we are discussing our options at this point.
18:12 Genji What features does liblime do that koha does not?
18:14 sekjal Genji:  Liblime Enterprise Koha, their customers-only fork, has a new Acquisitions interface, support for MARC format for Holdings Data, and course reserves, apparently
18:14 wizzyrea http://www.liblime.com/product[…]lek-release-notes
18:14 sekjal I assume it's got a few other unique features, as well
18:15 wizzyrea http://www.liblime.com/product[…]lution-comparison
18:15 wizzyrea do note that the comparison is for 3.0.0, not 3.0.4-5
18:15 wizzyrea and certainly isn't comparable to current head.
18:16 sekjal wizzyrea: I thought it was 3.0.2 they were running as "community"
18:16 sekjal at any rate, it's getting more out of date by the day
18:16 wizzyrea it may be, but that's not what they're comparing
18:16 wizzyrea but I will double check
18:17 * Genji laughs.. "They say "no vendor lock in" on the table under Enterprise edition."
18:17 wizzyrea sorry, sekjal, you're right, they claim they are running 3.0.2
18:22 jwagner_lunch is now known as jwagner
18:25 brendan heya sekjal wizzyrea
18:25 wizzyrea hey brendan
18:26 nengard kind of funny huh Genji
18:29 Genji Funny... no. false advertising, yes.
18:30 nengard was being sarcastic - i'm with you on this
18:31 sekjal hey, brendan
18:37 Genji Im thinking, what does liblime think of all this chatter against liblime? do they even care?
18:38 wizzyrea my theory is that they think they have the superior product, and much like Automattic did with Wordpress, they want their version to become the canonical version, releasing it free while using their proprietary version as their hosted version (like wordpress.com)
18:39 wizzyrea and yea, I think they do probably care.
18:40 joetho joined #koha
18:40 nengard left #koha
18:41 chris cake and eat it too springs to mind
18:41 chris aka being greedy dicks
18:41 Ropuch left #koha
18:42 * Genji omg's. "Can't believe you actually said that. Never thought I'd see that on #koha.... now recorded for all postarity."
18:44 chris yep, id say it to their face too
18:44 chris they have made life much harder than it needs to be for hundreds of people
18:44 Genji But you are right.... if they were a person, (in new zealand, companies become an entity, a legal person.. so lets play with it.) I'd call them egotistical, prideful, greedy ($299 for Koha Express, and then they want us to support it.), and self-serving.
18:44 chris i think greedy dicks is actually quite mild
18:44 jdavidb chris++
18:45 Genji Thats $299 USD btw....
18:45 Genji And then they want to charge for Koha Community Edition.
18:45 sekjal technical question: I'm running a second installation of Koha (a dev install for testing, vs. my pre-existing production installation).  Apparently, for the second instance of Zebra, I need different ports
18:45 joetho left #koha
18:45 sekjal is there a standard scheme for designating secondary Zebra ports?  Add 10,000 or something?
18:46 Genji @karma liblime
18:46 munin Genji: liblime has neutral karma.
18:46 Genji liblime--
18:46 joetho joined #koha
18:46 wizzyrea lol
18:46 Genji @karma liblime
18:46 munin Genji: Karma for "liblime" has been increased 0 times and decreased 1 time for a total karma of -1.
18:46 Genji @karma katipo
18:46 munin Genji: katipo has neutral karma.
18:46 joetho left #koha
18:46 Genji katipo++
18:46 Genji Katipo wins.
18:47 wizzyrea interesting that particular karma adjustment had never been done
18:47 Genji Its probably never been thought of.
18:47 joetho joined #koha
18:47 wizzyrea oh I'm sure it has lol
18:47 wizzyrea just not executed for whatever reason
18:47 Genji Where was liblime before Koha?
18:48 sekjal it wasn't
18:48 * chris is waiting for a stock to list before he can go to work
18:48 joetho left #koha
18:48 joetho joined #koha
18:48 chris liblime grew out of athens county public library
18:48 Genji And became a monster of its own.
18:49 wizzyrea a fine enough institution, I might add
18:49 chris the first US public library to run koha
18:49 joetho left #koha
18:49 Genji Any members of the library still in liblime?
18:49 chris and for the first couple of years they were awesome, we cant forget liblime did do a lot of good things
18:49 sekjal they absolutely did
18:49 wizzyrea ACPL still is hosted by LL
18:49 wizzyrea for now
18:50 sekjal its only the last several months that have been so horrid
18:50 chris yeah since about this time last year
18:50 * Genji loves the "for now" qualifier.
18:50 wizzyrea i use that one a lot. :P
18:50 * chris first met joshua in 2002, when he had long hair and talked about freedom
18:50 chris i miss that joshua
18:50 Genji But i mean, the development staff of liblime... any of them still part of ACPL?
18:50 wizzyrea not that I am aware of
18:50 Genji or vs versa?
18:51 chris im not sure they have any development staff anymore
18:51 chris all the ones i know have left
18:51 wizzyrea well, there's kados and ryan
18:51 Genji So...... its a dead horse.
18:51 owen Josh left ACPL to start LibLime.
18:51 owen No other ACPL people left.
18:51 wizzyrea enough of a juggernaut by some estimations to hijack an entire open source ILS
18:51 chris has anyone seen ryan ?
18:51 Genji @seen ryan
18:52 munin Genji: ryan was last seen in #koha 21 weeks, 5 days, 23 hours, 48 minutes, and 30 seconds ago: * ryan Ryan Higgins, LibLime
18:52 Genji Not in recent history.
18:52 Genji @seen joshua
18:52 munin Genji: I have not seen joshua.
18:52 wizzyrea @seen kados
18:52 munin wizzyrea: I have not seen kados.
18:52 sekjal @seen jmf
18:52 munin sekjal: I have not seen jmf.
18:52 Genji @seen Josh
18:52 munin Genji: I have not seen Josh.
18:53 sekjal @seen Titanic
18:53 munin sekjal: I have not seen Titanic.
18:53 chris 263 days
18:53 sekjal me neither
18:53 wizzyrea pity.
18:53 wizzyrea ;)
18:53 wizzyrea @seen Star Trek
18:53 munin wizzyrea: (seen [<channel>] <nick>) -- Returns the last time <nick> was seen and what <nick> was last seen saying. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself.
18:53 wizzyrea aww
18:53 wizzyrea i would get an error on that one
18:53 jdavidb nice try, wizzyrea
18:53 wizzyrea ty
18:53 owen is now known as owen-away
18:53 wizzyrea afk, lunch
18:53 * jdavidb thumps munin on the forehead.
18:54 joetho joined #koha
18:54 Genji @seen genji-laptop
18:54 munin Genji: genji-laptop was last seen in #koha 15 hours, 11 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: <genji-laptop> anyway, got to go now. working on getting a cisco ip phone logged into asterisk. Thanks for the help and conversation, all.
18:54 Genji is now known as StarTrek
18:55 * jdavidb raises an eyebrow.
18:55 chris sekjal: to answer you question, no, no standard scheme
18:56 chris pick a port not in use :)
18:56 StarTrek Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages of Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations; to boldly go where no man has gone before.
18:56 StarTrek @seen StarTrek
18:56 munin StarTrek: StarTrek was last seen in #koha 5 seconds ago: <StarTrek> Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages of Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations; to boldly go where no man has gone before.
18:56 StarTrek is now known as Genji
18:56 chris and it looks like your koha talk got accepted sekjal :)
18:56 Genji Now, munin has seen startrek.
18:56 sekjal chris:  thanks.  and yes, perhaps I did... haven't gotten an email one way or the other, but I'm hopeful
18:57 * jdavidb groans.
18:57 sekjal not that that would stop me from speaking; it just gives me 15 extra minutes
18:57 chris :)
18:58 chris ok stock is showing, time to catch my bus
18:58 chris bbiab
18:59 tomascohen left #koha
18:59 sekjal I had not looked at Kete too closely before, but I think I might want to roll it together with a home Koha install... its neat
18:59 ropuch joined #koha
19:02 brendan yes Kete is very nice
19:03 owen-away left #koha
19:09 sekjal jdavidb: did you have any time to play with a turnkeylinux.org Koha appliance in the last week?
19:09 jdavidb I've barely had time to do *laundry* in the last week.    It's been pretty brisk around here.
19:10 sekjal jdavidb:  totally understand.  I'm trying to find ways of making my horrendous commute home more productive, and was looking into turnkeylinux
19:11 sekjal I really want to do a home installation of Koha (and maybe now Kete), but I'm never home, and there isn't reliable internet on the train
19:11 jdavidb I'd like to work on my commute, but it's too broken-up.  I could do a lot in virtual-boxes, maybe, but a fifteen-minute bus ride, and ten minutes standing on a train, then a five minute ride...naah.
19:12 sekjal yeah, I suppose I do have some luck that my trip is only three legs, the middle being over an hour and a half
19:12 jdavidb I wouldn't call that "luck" myself.
19:13 Colin left #koha
19:14 sekjal its not a forever thing.... though I recall saying that a year ago....
19:14 jdavidb heh.
19:16 Melanie left #koha
19:46 chris back
19:47 Genji hmm.... you use 'screen' to keep the same irc session?
19:48 francharb left #koha
19:49 chris yep
19:50 Genji What is work, anyhow, chris? Catalyst website doesn't mention you.
19:51 chris yeah there are 108 staff at catalyst, most of them aren't on the website
19:52 chris i work on the fairfax team, doing stuff.co.nz (the infrastructure not the content)
19:52 chris as well as koha work
19:53 sekjal oooh, I get to talk up Koha to another area library.  I love that part of my job!
19:53 Genji Ah cool!
19:53 Genji (to both chris and sekjal.)
19:54 chris sekjal: ohh excellent
19:55 sekjal I'm drafting up my answers to their preliminary questions on selection, installation, and usage/reporting right now.
19:55 sekjal I'm sure more will come up as we talk (always do)
19:58 bebbi Hi. I want to use http://intranet.bywatersolutions.com/ (Username = bywater Password = bywater ) to try koha before installing. Do somebody of you know, why the Impotz with Z39.50 dosen't work?
19:59 brendan yeah I've got an error on that server :)
19:59 bebbi I get the error-information "Koha error
19:59 bebbi The following fatal error has occurred:
19:59 bebbi Can't call method "add_subfields" on an undefined value at /home/koha/kohaclone/cataloguing/addbiblio.pl line 141."
19:59 brendan give me a sec and I can fix that up for you
20:02 bebbi thx
20:04 Godzilla8NJ joined #koha
20:05 Godzilla8NJ Does anyone know if my browser crashed while doing a large import (under Manage import) did it rollback, continue or corrupt it?
20:05 bebbi How long is your sec? :-) *kindly ask*
20:06 schuster gozilla8nj - not sure - but you should be able to load it again and it won't do much depending on your match points usually it won't load items if they are already in the system.
20:08 Godzilla8NJ schuster - thx. i'm importing almost 30k records (project gutenberg) and i'd hate to overload system by duplicating work if it's still running. any way to check?
20:09 Genji Godzilla8NJ: Try 'top'
20:10 Godzilla8NJ genji, pretty much a koha virgin here...using koha for a library school project...not sure what you mean by 'top'?
20:11 paul_p joined #koha
20:12 sekjal godzilla8nj:  do you have command line access to your Koha installation?
20:12 Genji Ahh. good question, sekjal.
20:12 Godzilla8NJ i do.
20:13 sekjal ah, good.  in that case, it might be easier for you to use bulkmarcimport.pl to do the initial data load
20:13 jdavidb left #koha
20:14 sekjal its a commandline tool usually found in misc/migration_tools
20:14 Godzilla8NJ fair enough, so: roll back my server, wget the pj marc zip, and bulk import it?
20:15 Godzilla8NJ (pj = pg)
20:17 sekjal I'd recommend that over the GUI import method.  Are the MARC records in the PG zip separate files, or in batches?
20:17 sekjal bulkmarcimport.pl loads the contents of a single file at a time
20:20 Godzilla8NJ it's a single batch file. i think that's the way to go. last question, i did this all before (imported pg records using bulk tool at cmd line) but when i added records i suddenly found myself staring at the following msg when i tried a search: Can't call method "as_usmarc" on an undefined value at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Search.pm line 2133. Which I think has to do with indexing but am not sure.
20:22 sekjal Godzilla8NJ: did you get this error only when you added more records, or after the initial bulk load?
20:23 Godzilla8NJ i tried a gui import of several records, it failed, and i started seeing that.
20:23 sekjal are you running Zebra, or without?
20:24 ropuch left #koha
20:24 Godzilla8NJ with.
20:25 sekjal and you did the initial indexing after loading by running rebuild_zebra.pl -b?
20:25 Ropuch joined #koha
20:26 Godzilla8NJ did but after the crash it threw some errors. i felt lost, cold and alone so i just did a rebuild.
20:27 sekjal did you have rebuild_zebra.pl running as a cron job every X minutes?
20:27 Godzilla8NJ i did not, was just running it manually
20:27 sekjal ok
20:28 sekjal odd... its not apparent to me what caused search to stop working after you GUI-loaded those additional records... something about the MARC?
20:28 sekjal file permissions, perhaps?  I'm speculating wildly
20:29 sekjal were you always running rebuild_zebra.pl as your Koha user, or did you run it as another user at some point?
20:31 Godzilla8NJ as another user
20:32 sekjal that might be it; running it as a different user changes the ownerships of the files, and has tripped me up before
20:34 CGI504 joined #koha
20:36 CGI504 left #koha
20:36 Godzilla8NJ ah, ok. will be aware in the future. thx. going to try bulk import now. many thx to all.
20:37 sekjal good luck, Godzilla8NJ!  let us know if you need any further assistance
20:50 Godzilla8NJ left #koha
20:55 jwagner it
20:55 jwagner left #koha
21:13 magnusenger left #koha
21:24 jransom joined #koha
21:24 GeorgeSue joined #koha
21:24 jransom hi George
21:25 GeorgeSue Hi Jo
21:26 jransom Chris: you about
21:27 chris yep
21:27 jransom hey the koha meeting is friday night?
21:27 jransom or tonight?
21:27 jransom I saw on the wiki and the time convertor i checked said it would be tonight
21:28 Genji What time, nz time?
21:29 sekjal I think that's accurate; my calendar reads it early tomorrow morning, in about 12.5 hours.
21:29 chris thats the devel meeting jo
21:29 chris there are 2 meetings
21:29 chris the devel meeting is at 11pm tonight
21:29 Genji 11pm nz time?
21:29 chris yes
21:30 Genji Sweet!
21:30 jransom the message on my screen in this irc says its 3rd december
21:30 chris thats the foundation meeting
21:30 wizzyrea foundation forming
21:30 chris | Next foundation forming meeting is scheduled at 19:00 UTC 3rd december
21:30 chris thats a different meeting
21:31 chris 7am for us friday morning
21:31 chris (us being nz)
21:33 jransom I'd like to introduce George Sue
21:33 jransom he is our library trustee who led the development of koha back in 1999
21:33 jransom he is the HLT represntative who has been appointed to work with the koha community going forward
21:33 jransom and I am hoping he will join us for the community meeting - so he is learning how to use irc :)
21:33 brendan Hi GeorgeSue
21:33 brendan welcome
21:33 sekjal hello, GeorgeSue
21:33 wizzyrea hi GeorgeSue :)
21:33 Genji Cool Welcome GeorgeSue.
21:33 Genji GeorgeSue++
21:34 * Genji wonders if he can increase karma privately, instead of spamming channel.
21:34 jransom (George won't know what ++ means :)
21:34 GeorgeSue Hello to everyone in the Koha Community, I am just learning, please excuse
21:34 Genji @karma GeorgeSue
21:34 munin Genji: Karma for "GeorgeSue" has been increased 1 time and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 1.
21:35 Genji @karma rach
21:35 munin Genji: rach has neutral karma.
21:35 * Genji huhs.....
21:35 Genji @seen rach
21:35 munin Genji: rach was last seen in #koha 9 weeks, 4 days, 14 hours, 55 minutes, and 0 seconds ago: * rach is contemplating a trip to guntur at christmas (which is near-ish to hyderabad)
21:36 Genji @karma chris
21:36 munin Genji: Karma for "chris" has been increased 78 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 78.
21:37 Genji Not that anyone really keeps tabs on their karma.
21:37 wizzyrea @karma wizzyrea
21:37 munin wizzyrea: Karma for "wizzyrea" has been increased 21 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 21.
21:37 wizzyrea except for me >.>
21:37 * Genji facepalms.
21:37 wizzyrea j/k
21:38 wizzyrea gengi++ /for funniness
21:38 Genji ....
21:38 Genji its GenJi.... Genji..
21:38 * wizzyrea faceepalms
21:38 wizzyrea sorry sorry
21:38 Genji Gengi in Icelandish means 'original meaning'
21:39 wizzyrea Genji++ /for ... awesomeness?
21:40 Genji Genji is japanese, meaning commoner. Its from the Tale of Genji, a first novel in history, written by Lady Murasaki Shikibu. About a son of a courtisan, and the emperor, which of course being an illegitamate child, he can't really be a prince. Yet, hes very much part of court life... so you get a fair understanding of what it was like, back then.
21:42 Genji Huge book... I only read one volume of a two volume set... which I returned to the Kyoto Sanggyo University Office Library.. and then they shut up shop, so I can't ever read the same translation again....  unless I remember who translated it. Very fustrating.
21:42 wizzyrea yikes, sounds frustrating
21:44 brendan @wunder 93117
21:44 munin brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 16.3�C (1:38 PM PST on December 01, 2009). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 71%. Dew Point: 11.0�C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012.1 hPa (Falling).
21:44 Genji Translation was beautiful. Poems as original as possible to the original, while keeping all its cultural references in footnotes, instead of translating the poems as meaning, depriving it of cultural context.
21:46 chris hi GeorgeSue
21:47 wizzyrea oh that does sound nice. The japanese language definitely lends itself to poetry. Do you speak japanese?
21:47 Genji Only a tiny bit.
21:48 Genji Not enough to be convincing as to get a japanese person to mistake that I know japanese, and then talk over my head.
21:48 wizzyrea hehe!
21:48 Genji Wo betide someone who says 'moshi moshi' or 'Wei!' on the telephone in NZ.
21:48 * paul_p heads to bed. Have a good day, morning, night, whatsoever #koha
21:48 brendan night paul_p
21:49 chris wei ni hao
21:49 chris ni hao ma
21:49 Genji wu leao.
21:49 * chris has forgotten far more mandarin than he ever knew
21:49 * Genji nodnods.
21:50 Genji Did nightschool Chinese class a long time ago.
21:50 Genji Japanese too.
21:50 schuster see ya - won't be up at the meeting in the morning sorry can't wait to read about it when I get to work!  Just can't wait for it to be released really!
21:50 schuster left #koha
21:50 chris mine is just from a couple of visits to china, have a little bit of cantonese from visits to hong kong
21:50 chris my sister did her masters at shanghai university
21:51 Genji OMG... you visited china. Cool. Ive never set foot out of the country.
21:51 chris Japan too
21:52 chris i made a deal with myself in my first year of uni, once i graduated i would travel overseas at least once every year
21:52 chris i graduated with my 2nd degree in 97 and have managed to keep the deal :)
21:53 Genji My coding isn't that good, to be of note, nor my diplomacy. So neither have I landed a well paying job nor become an ambassador for Koha.
21:53 Genji So, travel is not likely.
21:54 chris my first travel for koha, was to ohio
21:54 Genji What doing?
21:54 chris which i paid for from mileage points
21:54 chris meeting with owen, stephen and joshua from ACPL
21:55 Genji Cool.
21:55 chris and presenting at the ohio library conference, and the thinklinunx conference in toledo
21:55 * chris doesnt very often get paid to travel for koha
21:55 chris i think 3 times
21:56 sekjal sent in my first grant application for funding to go to KohaCon.  working on a couple more
21:57 chris w00t
21:57 chris ok, i gotta go do meetings and stuff
21:57 sekjal cheers, chris
21:57 sekjal I've got to get moving, myself.  groceries, train, kitchen
21:57 sekjal left #koha
21:58 paul_p left #koha
22:06 Genji find  (rk=( kw,wrdl="school")) and yr,st-numeric=2008 gives me 'error: extra token' in a find (with lang ccl2rpn set).... whats wrong with it?
22:06 Genji It looks right...
22:10 Genji nevermind... oops. querytype.. not lang.
22:13 Genji ahh... interesting... pubdate query doesn't work if st-numeric is specified...
22:25 Genji and its a known problem in #koha.... was it fixed?
22:31 Genji whats the proper way to do match if pubdate > year?
22:32 bebbi Byebye :-)
22:32 bebbi left #koha
22:57 joetho left #koha
23:09 pianohackr|work joined #koha
23:17 Ian joined #koha
23:20 Ian ...would like the SQL for datelastborrowed <* or NULL.....getting screwy results from my efforts (eg changing the ccode's of the results)
23:23 Ian forgot to say please :-(...
23:27 * chris_n2 sets up extra coffee for the meeting later/tomorrow
23:31 chris_n2 Ian: try SELECT * FROM items WHERE datelastborrowed < '2009-12-01' OR NULL;
23:34 Ian thanks Chris...that's what i had but the OR seemed to trump the ccode criteria i had set. tried bracketing, still no
23:35 Ian i will go nibble on toast...
23:40 chris_n2 Ian: 'SELECT * FROM items WHERE (datelastborrowed < '2009-12-01' OR NULL) AND ccode <> NULL\G' returns an empty set for me which is correct since all ccode's are NULL in my development db
23:46 rhcl is now known as rhcl_away
23:50 Genji melm 260$c      pubdate:y,pubdate:s,pubdate:n,​pubdate:w,copydate,copydate:s .... this line correct? or is there a reason in this line, that my searching for a range or > <es fails?

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