IRC log for #koha, 2009-10-28

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:00 pianohackr|work mysql database on one of the two?
00:01 pianohackr|work wherever you put it, it would actually be pretty easy; just do two koha installs, point them to the same db and just remove the correct virtualhost on each one
00:41 chris back
00:42 chris same db, same zebra (or different zebras actually that would be better)
00:42 chris search locally, talk back to the central db for other stuff
00:42 pianohackr|work is there a Perl or koha coding standard regarding bareword hash keys? they seem to be out of favor
00:43 chris_n2 best practices says no barewords as hash keys
00:43 chris i just like not using them, because my syntax highlighter makes it easier to read
00:43 chris_n2 readability++
00:43 pianohackr|work diff zebras are good, though one will have to  run on infrequent total index rebuilds due to the the shared zebraqueue afaik
00:44 chris you could update the rebuild_zebra job on one of them
00:44 chris so that one sets them to done=1 and the that means the other does them and sets them to done=2
00:44 pianohackr|work never would have guessed before I started programming how truly important a good syntax highlighter is
00:45 chris (or something like that)
00:45 pianohackr|work that's actually not a bad idea. maybe that should be a command line param
00:45 chris pianohackr|work: definitely
00:45 chris wrt syntax highlighter
00:46 pianohackr|work zebraqueue.done is a full int for no apparent reason, may as well make use of it
00:46 chris *nod*
00:49 pianohackr|work bbl, headed home
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01:42 chris @quote random
01:42 chris damn, thats right no munin
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02:08 chris_n2 this is insane
02:08 chris ?
02:09 chris_n2 CGI::Session makefile is nearly exactly like Koha makefile syntactically
02:09 chris ahh the make issues
02:09 chris_n2 C::S makefile dmakes fine, Koha's borks
02:09 chris yeah, that is insane
02:10 chris_n2 diff -u shows only expected differences
02:10 chris_n2 ARGHHH!
02:10 chris_n2 :-P
02:11 chris_n2 maybe we should be using Build.PL
02:12 chris_n2 I believe Module::Build is a pure perl solution for installing perl stuff
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02:55 chris_n2 awesome...
02:56 chris_n2 using the latest version of dmake works... :-)
02:56 * chris_n2 wonders why he did not figure that out earlier
02:57 chris_n2 must be the Heisenbug principle slef mentioned earlier
03:16 chris_n2 heh
03:16 chris_n2 A schroedinbug is a bug that manifests only after someone reading source code or using the program in an unusual way notices that it never should have worked in the first place, at which point the program promptly stops working for everybody until fixed.
03:16 chris :)
03:16 chris so using the latest version, you can get it installed on windows?
03:21 chris_n2 ahh... not quite
03:22 chris_n2 dmake makes the all: target now, but there needs to be some syntactical changes to the install: target methinks
03:22 chris ahhh
03:22 chris well it's definitely progress
03:22 richard is now known as rich
03:22 chris_n2 gmcharlt and I had this worked out nearly two years ago, but several things have changed in the Makefile.PL since them
03:22 rich is now known as richard
03:22 chris_n2 then even
03:23 chris_n2 but this is a big step forward
03:23 chris *nod*
03:23 chris_n2 I have this sort of ethereal hope that there might be an INSTALL.win32 file in the 3.2 release
03:23 chris that would be pretty sweet
03:37 chris_n2 now it installs
03:37 chris oh wow, sweet
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04:41 chris_n2 oh well, stuck on apache config now
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05:12 mason w00t, ive *just* managed to get a koha3_HEAD running on my osx 10.4 lappy
05:13 mason it took many hours of mistakes and dead-ends :/
05:13 mason macports versus fink, etc...
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05:24 chris_n2 mason++
05:25 * chris_n2 wonders how it suddenly got to be 1:20am
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05:54 * richard backs
05:55 * chris_n2 heads off to sleep
06:03 brendan night
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06:20 zico hi
06:21 zico i hv just installed a new koha 3.0.1 server... just took datas from my another server as sql format
06:21 zico imported those sql data into my new server...but... i cannot search data there
06:21 zico i mean... though i hv data in my new server...but... i cannot find those by searching
06:45 chris have you built the indexes
06:45 chris (either zebra or no-zebra)
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06:50 chris hiya nicomo
06:51 nicomo hello chris
06:51 nicomo hello all
06:53 chris hows france today?
07:01 Ropuch Hello chris, nicomo
07:01 nicomo hi Ropuch
07:02 chris hi Ropuch
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07:03 chris hi magnusenger
07:04 magnusenger hi chris and the rest of #koha
07:05 Ropuch chain-greetings reminds me of some word-memorization game
07:05 Ropuch Hello magnusenger
07:05 magnusenger hi Ropuch
07:31 frederic1 good morning everybody
07:31 chris hi frederic1
07:32 frederic1 chris: France is depressed and suicidal this morning, as usual (in response to your above question)...
07:32 chris heh
07:33 chris drinking coffee and smoking a cigarette? :)
07:37 frederic1 I don't say that for myself... Just google 'france telecom suicides' to get an idea of what I'm talking about
07:38 zico chris:
07:38 zico i didn`t install zebra here.... so...there is no zebra
07:38 chris right, did you run ?
07:38 zico but.. i ran ./rebuild_nozebra -b -w
07:39 Ropuch frederic1: it is pesemistic, actually - I was nearly sure Poland is more depressed than France ;>
07:39 zico yep...this problem occured
07:39 zico Can't locate C4/ in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.0 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.0 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at ./ line 3. BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at ./ line 3.
07:39 chris frederic1: wow .. that is a lot
07:39 chris zico before you run it you need to do
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07:39 chris export PERL5LIB=/path/to/C4
07:40 chris eg export PERL5LIB=/home/chris/git/koha
07:40 chris for me
07:40 chris and export KOHA_CONF=/home/chris/koha-dev/etc/koha-conf.xml
07:40 chris (but change for your setup)
07:40 chris and then try running it
07:41 Ropuch It's export PERL5LIB=/usr/share/koha/lib && export KOHA_CONF=/etc/koha/koha-conf.xml in debian/ubuntu install by default
07:41 chris thanks Ropuch
07:44 zico thanks chris
07:53 zico imp: chris
07:53 zico when i go 2 upload marc
07:54 zico then... i get this error
07:54 zico Can't locate Algorithm/ in @INC (@INC contains: /usr/share/koha/lib /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.0 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.0 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 25. BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 25. Compilation failed in require at /usr/share/koha/intranet/cgi-bi
07:54 zico :(
07:54 chris you have missed installing a module
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07:55 chris sudo cpan Algorithm::CheckDigits
07:55 kf morning #koha
07:56 kf morning chris
07:56 chris hiya kf
08:06 Ropuch zico: what distro are you using?
08:06 Ropuch Morning kf
08:06 zico imp: chris, which module?
08:06 Ropuch libalgorithm-checkdigits-perl
08:06 Ropuch (in debian/ubuntu)
08:07 Ropuch I'm not sure it's in stable though
08:07 zico Ropuch, i am using Debian 5.0
08:09 Ropuch zico: tru apt-get install libalgorithm-checkdigits-perl
08:09 Ropuch try
08:09 Ropuch If it's not working: sudo perl -MCPAN -e 'install Algorithm::Checkdigits'
08:10 chris or the less typing way
08:10 chris sudo cpan Algorithm::CheckDigits
08:11 chris :)
08:11 Ropuch Oh, didn't know that
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08:12 Ropuch Guess i missed cpan chapter in my "Becoming perl hacker in less than 10 minutes" ;>
08:13 chris :)
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08:34 * chris reads frederic1 's proposal
08:35 chris looks good
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08:52 kf chris: 2 proposals for tanslation manager :)
08:54 chris yep im hoping we get a few for each, give people some choice :)
08:56 kf but 3.4 has a nice start I think
08:57 chris yep
09:03 zico Ropuch: thanks a lot
09:03 zico but... the problem is
09:03 zico when i edit BIBLIO record... i repeat... when i EDIT ANY BIBLIO RECORD... it becomes two items
09:03 zico that means... if i search with the ISBN.... it shows two same items
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09:58 gmcharlt @quote random
09:58 munin gmcharlt: Quote #2: "<jwagner> Hope springs eternal in little kitty hearts. Better watch the doors :-)" (added by gmcharlt at 12:04 PM, June 03, 2009)
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09:59 gmcharlt @wunder 32605
09:59 munin gmcharlt: The current temperature in FoxFire Woods, Gainesville, Florida is 21.3�C (5:58 AM EDT on October 28, 2009). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 98%. Dew Point: 21.0�C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011.1 hPa (Rising).
10:04 kf @wunder konstanz
10:04 munin kf: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 7.0�C (11:00 AM CET on October 28, 2009). Conditions: Heavy Fog. Humidity: 96%. Dew Point: 6.0�C. Pressure: 30.22 in 1023 hPa (Rising).
10:04 kf yay, munin is back :)
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10:22 nicomo @wunder lyon france
10:22 munin nicomo: The current temperature in Lyon, France is 12.0�C (11:00 AM CET on October 28, 2009). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 77%. Dew Point: 8.0�C. Pressure: 30.15 in 1021 hPa (Steady).
10:24 magnusenger @wunder bodoe, norway
10:24 munin magnusenger: Error: No such location could be found.
10:24 magnusenger @wunder bodo, norway
10:24 munin magnusenger: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 4.0�C (10:50 AM CET on October 28, 2009). Conditions: Light Rain Showers. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: 3.0�C. Windchill: 2.0�C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Steady).
10:24 magnusenger anyone colder? ;-)
10:27 nicomo magnusenger: any snow yet?
10:28 magnusenger nicomo: we had some a couple weeks back, but it's gone now, just a bit on the highest mountain peaks
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10:29 nicomo as for Lyon, munin's answer doesn't give a good feeling of what it's like. Really sunny. It feels warmer than 12°C
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10:29 CGI646 hi
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10:30 CGI646 can any one help me
10:31 kf CGI646: ask your question, if we can help we will
10:32 kf magnusenger: cold and foggy enough for me here :)
10:33 magnusenger kf: yeah, 7 isn't too warm either... I can see patches of blue sky - yay! ;-)
10:33 kf magnusenger: all grey here, normal autumn weather for Konstanz
10:34 magnusenger kf: constant grey? Hihi...
10:36 CGI646 hello
10:36 kf kf: I think its because of the lake we have so much fog here, can get a little depressing in winter, but in the summer its really nice here
10:36 kf magnusenger:... my typing fingers will never learn
10:37 CGI646 [Wed Oct 28 16:05:42 2009] Makefile.PL: Warning: prerequisite XML::LibXSLT 1.59 not found.Writing Makefile for koha
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10:37 magnusenger kf: talking to youself, eh? ;-)
10:38 kf magnusenger: who does not? :)
10:38 magnusenger kf: ;-)
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11:12 slef so, Koha Express is v3.00.02-final with Zebra
11:12 slef on ec2
11:12 slef Anyone got comments on that?
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11:38 kf general question: is it common to have one koha staff user for all staff or individual koha users for each staff person?
11:39 kf discussion started with public lists, because only the owner can edit them
11:40 kf slef: sorry, no comments - I just wonder what they get access to and how often they will get updated etc.
11:42 slef individual koha users for each staff person I think
11:43 slef I think you can have legal problems in England with unauthorised modifications to patrons if you can't tell who changed what.  Koha's modification log won't allow you to discover the modification source without individual staff users.
11:44 kf slef: thx
11:44 kf slef: I fear we are not allowed to keep the information who changed what and when... because of privacy law
11:45 slef kf: where are you?
11:45 kf slef: Germany
11:46 kf slef: I sill have to look into it, but we will need to write documents and we cant keep some information or only keep it for a specified amount of time
11:46 slef kf: your law should be similar to ours.  If you don't keep track of which member of staff changed a patron's personal information, I think you can't show that you have processed it fairly.
11:47 kf slef: its on my todo list ... we need a kind of treaty with our customer, describing everything first.
11:47 slef kf: yes, one has to do some work on purging old information which you have no need to keep.
11:47 slef kf: I think there are some history-anonymising tools but I'd have to look up exactly what/where they are.
11:48 kf slef: so for the time being I think its better to keep individual users and perhaps add a user just for editing lists
11:48 kf slef: I got the impression that some of them are not secure to use or need extensive testing before using them
11:49 slef for info,[…]n/the_basics.aspx is a guide to our law, but I think much of it comes from or went to EU directives.
11:49 kf slef: I d like to go with anonymizing data as much as possible, so the information is still usable for statistics
11:50 slef kf: they've worked for us.  Or at least, only one librarian has reported a grave bug with them and that was partly because they didn't follow our advice on staff users.
11:51 kf slef: what was your advice?
11:53 slef kf: to use individual staff users as much as possible.
11:53 slef kf: instead, I think several were still logging in as the koha-conf user.
11:56 kf slef: ok, this wont happen here, because they cant log in as root - only I can
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11:58 headbang hi
11:59 kf slef: I just talked to my colleague, who is responsible for privacy / data protection. he does not know if our laws are similar. perhaps I can tell you when Im finished with the paperwork
12:00 kf lunch time - bbl
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12:28 owen good morning schuster
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12:29 chris_n g'morning owen, everyone
12:29 chris_n Nate too
12:29 chris_n wb munin
12:29 chris_n @wunder 29334
12:29 munin chris_n: The current temperature in Rogers Bridge Rd Area, Duncan, South Carolina is 13.2�C (8:16 AM EDT on October 28, 2009). Conditions: Fog. Humidity: 99%. Dew Point: 13.0�C. Pressure: 29.90 in 1012.4 hPa (Rising). Dense fog advisory in effect until 9 am EDT this morning...
12:29 Nate morning chris_n, everyone
12:30 chris_n @wunder 28334
12:30 munin chris_n: The current temperature in Erwin, North Carolina is 23.0�C (7:59 AM EDT on October 28, 2009). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 21.0�C. Pressure: 29.84 in 1010 hPa (Steady).
12:37 chris_n slef: well crafted response
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12:42 owen Really we're all arguing about points that are tangential to the real problem. I think Josh will keep inventing objections as long as we're asking for control over "his" territory.
12:42 slef @wunder Weston-super-Mare, SOMERSET
12:42 munin slef: The current temperature in Weston-Super-Mare, United Kingdom is 16.3�C (12:41 PM GMT on October 28, 2009). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 83%. Dew Point: 13.0�C. Pressure: 30.08 in 1018.5 hPa (Steady).
12:48 indradg @wunder kolkata
12:48 munin indradg: The current temperature in Kolkata, India is 28.0�C (5:50 PM IST on October 28, 2009). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 54%. Dew Point: 18.0�C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010 hPa (Steady).
12:50 indradg good evening all
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13:01 slef owen: I tried to get it back to community management.  Dunno if I succeeded.  Didn't want to ignore the historical and release-quality points, though.
13:02 owen I just don't know that we're going to make any headway
13:02 owen I guess we have to try (I certainly feel compelled to)
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13:04 schuster owen - that was why I thought going through the original creator as the starting foundation might give some credibility to the community for control.
13:05 slef yes, that's one plus
13:05 schuster Question - I searched my sysprefs for opacsuppression and found a setting but it tells me to check with the system admin before changing the settings.
13:05 schuster Well here I am and can't find any information on it.  Is that something LibLime threw in and will be in the next release or does everyone have that syspref?
13:05 schuster I can't find it documented anywhere.
13:05 gmcharlt schuster: agreed; although I think ultimately it's going to boil down to who wears out first
13:05 slef schuster: I think I have that syspref. Checking.
13:06 gmcharlt schuster: OPAC suppression may not currently documented but has existed in the public version of Koha since at least 3.0
13:06 schuster gmcharlt - in the long term the community will persist.
13:06 slef "requires further setup"
13:06 schuster slef - yep - so I was wondering what and how it worked...
13:07 schuster or what that means?  suppress items, the whole opac what is it?
13:07 gmcharlt basic it simply boils down to checking whether the 942$n (for MARC21) of a bib records contains a 1
13:07 gmcharlt if it does, that bib (and the items attached to it) won't be displayed in OPAC searches
13:07 schuster to hide the bib from pac?
13:07 owen schuster: We use this feature to hide interlibrary loan items in the OPAC
13:07 schuster WOW! but they will display in staff pac?
13:07 slef oh I think this relates to a bug I have
13:08 owen We were getting holds on ILL stuff that could only circulate once.
13:08 gmcharlt schuster: yes, they'll display in staff
13:08 schuster VERY interesting...  So if you do a most circulated type report in pac those won't display?
13:09 schuster May have to play with it...  So all I need is a 942$n with a 1 and that syspref turned on.
13:09 gmcharlt it's not that deep; numbers from suppressed bibs would currently display in that report
13:09 slef bug 3006
13:09 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3006 enhancement, P3, ---,, NEW, ability to hide a collection / location from OPAC users
13:10 schuster Do others know about this feature?  seems someone was looking for this functionality to hide items from the public.
13:10 gmcharlt schuster: correct - the base index config already knows what to look for re 952$n
13:10 slef gmcharlt: 952$n or 942$n ?
13:10 gmcharlt sorry, 942$n
13:10 schuster slef types faster than me!
13:10 owen gmcharlt: So there is no further setup required?
13:10 schuster OK thanks for the clarification.
13:10 gmcharlt owen: no
13:11 owen So the syspref description should be revised to remove the comment about checking with system admin
13:11 slef So how does this differ from[…]ug.cgi?id=3006#c1 ?
13:11 munin Bug 3006: enhancement, P3, ---,, NEW, ability to hide a collection / location from OPAC users
13:11 schuster Way cool...  I'll write this up as a 3.00x and send it to nicole.
13:11 gmcharlt schuster: note that there currently isn't a way to hide individual items
13:11 schuster That is a great question slef
13:11 schuster OK yes HIDES WHOLE BIB...
13:11 gmcharlt slef: current suppression is per bib; to suppress an entire collection, you'd have to suppress its bibs individually
13:12 slef gmcharlt: sure, for the general ticket.  But that's not what NELKS say they're paying for.
13:12 schuster Ah yes they wanted to do it by collection thanks for the clarification.  gmcharlt needs to hang out for at least 2 more years as he knows the system soooo well.
13:13 gmcharlt slef: bug 3006 is also talking about a per-item suppression flag AFAICT
13:13 owen We should set up gmcharlt as an Amazon ec2 instance that we can fire up at will.
13:14 slef owen: fnarr
13:14 * gmcharlt doesn't like that idea - means you all can turn me off at will too ;)
13:14 owen gmcharlt: You'll be like our holographic doctor.
13:15 gmcharlt Please state the nature of your ILS emergency
13:15 chris_n hehe
13:15 chris_n @gmcharlt: it's broken; how do I fix it?
13:15 munin chris_n: Error: "gmcharlt:" is not a valid command.
13:15 chris_n opps ;-)
13:16 slef @quote add <chris_n> @gmcharlt: it's broken; how do I fix it? <munin> chris_n: Error: "gmcharlt:" is not a valid command.
13:16 munin slef: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
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13:16 slef munin: go boil yourself.
13:16 munin slef: Error: "go" is not a valid command.
13:17 slef bbl
13:17 chris_n gmcharlt: do we need to re-register with munin now
13:18 chris_n nm
13:18 gmcharlt chris_n: no, it shouldn't be necessary to reregister, just identify yourself to munin again
13:18 chris_n @quote 42
13:18 munin chris_n: Error: The "Quote" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "42" in it.  Try "list Quote" to see the commands in the "Quote" plugin.
13:18 chris_n slef: ^^
13:18 chris_n opps
13:19 chris_n @quote help
13:19 munin chris_n: Error: The "Quote" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "help" in it.  Try "list Quote" to see the commands in the "Quote" plugin.
13:19 chris_n @help quote
13:19 munin chris_n: Error: There is no command "quote".
13:19 chris_n grrrr
13:19 chris_n @quote
13:19 munin chris_n: Error: "quote" is not a valid command.
13:19 chris_n @quote random
13:19 munin chris_n: Quote #9: "pianohacker ponders drumstick->ear as a method of food acquisition...We haven't gone to this good mexican restaurant in a while..." (added by wizzyrea at 04:23 PM, June 19, 2009)
13:20 gmcharlt @quote get 42
13:20 munin gmcharlt: Quote #42: "<chris_n> @gmcharlt: it's broken; how do I fix it? <munin> chris_n: Error: gmcharlt: is not a valid command." (added by chris_n at 09:17 AM, October 28, 2009)
13:20 gmcharlt @help Quote
13:20 munin gmcharlt: Error: There is no command "quote".
13:20 gmcharlt @help quote
13:20 munin gmcharlt: Error: There is no command "quote".
13:20 gmcharlt @list Quote
13:20 munin gmcharlt: add, change, get, random, remove, search, and stats
13:20 chris_n ahhh
13:27 schuster New question - I'm sure this is documented...  I don't often catalog in Koha - so I have this record and I want to add the 942$n - but the record displays a 942$c only - and the only option I see is the "-" to delete the tag.
13:28 gmcharlt schuster: click on the tag's label, and that should expand the other subfields
13:29 schuster AH! see - ask and you shall be answered by gmcharlt! - thank you doctor - Please state the nature of your ILS emergency
13:30 schuster Before I put this bug in I want to ask about it here.  When you create a bib or edit one in exitance - it asks for the 003,  003    - CONTROL NUMBER IDENTIFIER  −  to be filled in when you click on it it defaults in my situation to TxPlISD
13:31 schuster Which is our LC org code.  Then it asks for the 040 c transcribing agency to be filled in, but DOESN'T automatically fill that in.
13:32 schuster Is there an easy way to get it to default to that or auto fill it in?
13:32 gmcharlt check your MARC frameworks and verify that the same cataloging plugin is set for the 003@ and the 040$c
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14:44 schuster Yikes - MARC frameworks...  I have not played with those so this could be dangerous... Off to my test server to play.
14:46 schuster When I look at it - 003 authorized values are blank and I don't see anything there withTxPlISD.
14:47 owen schuster: Did you click "display more contraints" ?
14:47 owen That's where the plugin is set
14:48 schuster I know the only place I have put TxPlISD - is in the syspref/cataloging section where it says "org code" so how did it get to the 003 - is there a problem with the coding?
14:48 schuster where is this display more contraints I don't see that anywhere in the MARC Framework setup
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14:49 schuster I am going to MARC Bibliographic framework - and click "Marc Structure" - on the default
14:49 schuster then I see this 003  CONTROL NUMBER IDENTIFIER  No  No   Subfields  Edit  Delete
14:50 schuster When I click on either subfields or Edit I don't see anything about display more contraints...???
14:50 owen That's correct. When you click "Subfields" you should see one line in the table, Subfield "@"
14:51 kf perhaps instead of using a plugin to set a default value you can set the default value directly via marc framework
14:51 schuster ok I do see this - @   control field   Tab:0, Not repeatable, Mandatory, |,  Delete
14:52 owen schuster: Click the "edit subfields" button
14:52 schuster I like kf's solution.
14:52 schuster So I want to do that on the 040 subfield c
14:52 kf click edit subfields first, owen is right
14:53 kf you get tabs with all subfields after that and can see what is configured for each
14:54 kf I see there is a new log option: letter log - but I dont find any entries in statistics table or in by browsing system logs in the browser - does someone now how this works?
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15:10 ccurry Does anyone have experience with MarcEdit's Script Wizard?  I'm using MarcEdit 5.1.3401.12539.  I can get it to add fields, but I can't get the conditional option to work.  I haven't tried using RegEx; I can't even get "HAS" to work.  I can't find documentation that describes the syntax that this field is expecting.
15:11 schuster whew - way cool !!!  2 new things learned today - my work is done can I go home now?
15:12 schuster ccurry - I have used it limited as it creates vbs script and I don't know that.  Terry is usually very good about answering questions.  I had asked him at one point if he would post some examples/samples but he hasn't done that yet.
15:13 schuster Generally I use the full MarcEdit to edit and the F11 where you have options for replacing etc.. rather than the scripts .  I use find/replace a lot as well.
15:14 ccurry schuster: thanks.  I'll contact him.  Maybe I'll try xslt first, since that's the only scripting language I know well.
15:15 ccurry Yeah, MarcEditor has been sufficient for every need I've come upon so far, but now I need to insert individual 008 fields into records based on a unique id, a much more complex operation.
15:15 schuster hmmm I did as owen and kf suggested and put some "default" text in the 040 c - but it isn't coming in when I click on that field.
15:18 kf I only used default for 952 subfields so far, its works nice there. used it for classification scheme and branches (only one branch in our system)
15:18 kf perhaps its there after you save?
15:19 schuster well it wiped it out after I saved it...
15:20 owen schuster: I would expect the default text to appear automatically, not on click. But that's just a guess.
15:20 schuster I added the plugin for and it worked - even put the data in rather than calling an error.  hmmm wonder how it will handle items that we edit locally but don't transcribe?
15:22 schuster whew as long as there was data in the 040c it left it alone!!  Way cool!
15:39 jwagner wizzyrea, online?
15:39 wizzyrea yo jwagner, how's it going?
15:39 jwagner Fair to middlin', you?
15:40 wizzyrea about the same :) what's on your mind?
15:40 jwagner We were talking a while back about how you handled placing holds on on order items, & you sent me your dummy item setup.  Question on that -- if your dummy item is marked not for loan, you can place a title-level hold on the title?
15:40 jwagner And do you allow on-shelf holds?
15:41 wizzyrea we do allow on-shelf holds
15:42 wizzyrea yes, I believe we can place title holds on the item, the procedure we outlined for you is what one of our libraries actually does
15:42 wizzyrea and afaik it works and allows hold
15:42 jwagner Hmmm.  Need to do some experimenting.  With that setup on dummy items, and onshelf holds not being allowed, not sure how it will work.
15:42 wizzyrea but it doesn't show on pick list (because there are no items availalble)
15:42 wizzyrea ooh, yea
15:43 wizzyrea that is a wrench in the clockwork for sure
15:43 ccurry left #koha
15:44 jwagner Got to do some testing....
15:44 wizzyrea let me know what you find out (I'm curious))
15:45 jwagner will do.
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17:07 kf leaving work - bye #koha :)
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17:20 owen is now known as owen-away
17:21 chris_n the more I learn the more I know the less I know.... :-P
17:22 jwagner chris_n, reminds me of something I realized somewhere in my 20s -- the older I got, the smarter my parents got :-)
17:23 chris_n hehe
17:24 * chris_n realized that about the time he also found out that hind-sight is nearly worthless
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17:36 chris morning
17:37 sekjal morning, chris
17:39 joetho Has anyone here had any experiences with the Koha inventory tool?
17:41 chris not in a few years
17:41 hdl_laptop joetho:  ?
17:42 joetho yes, hdl_laptop?
17:42 hdl_laptop your question ?
17:43 joetho Just wondering how it would work with a barcode file. One of these days I hope to have time to experiment with it.
17:43 joetho Very few of the libraries we have migrated into our koha consortium had inventoried recently.
17:44 joetho Most had NEVER inventoried.
17:44 hdl_laptop in 3.2 there has been some improvements on it.
17:45 hdl_laptop with a barcode file, you just ingest your data.
17:45 joetho Perfect!  "Let's just wait on this, until after the 3.2 rollout..."
17:46 joetho I say that a lot anyway.
17:46 chris :)
17:46 chris what version are you running ? it might be live on yours already
17:46 hdl_laptop chris : I had to reintroduce the submit button translation
17:47 saorge joined #koha
17:47 hdl_laptop because most of submits need to be translated.
17:47 joetho version
17:48 joetho although I was messing about on our test installation, which is older
17:48 chris yeah i think you have it, last change was in june joetho
17:48 chris hdl_laptop: ok
17:48 joetho Speaking of which, I wonder what we will have for version numbers in the future, on our hosted system.
17:49 joetho For some reason I keep thinking about the term "Stockholm Syndrome"
17:49 chris
17:50 joetho well don't tell me then.
17:50 chris heh
17:50 joetho Whew, another bullet DODGED
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17:50 chris ok bbiab
17:51 joetho I will look at the inventory changes to see what to look for. Thanks!
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18:13 thd-away is now known as thd
18:14 thd When is tomorrow's #IRC meeting?
18:15 thd s/IRC/koha IRC/
18:16 owen-away is now known as owen
18:16 thd hello owen
18:16 Ropuch Hi thd, owen
18:17 thd hello Ropuch
18:17 Ropuch I was sure the meeting is today
18:20 slef Koha: foundation-association forming - 19:00 UTC, Reference:[…]09-10-07#i_316191
18:21 slef says the co-op shared calendar
18:21 slef HTH. BBL.
18:21 chris someone really should send out an email then, because i dont think many people remembered
18:22 Ropuch[…]etingnotes09oct07 Agree times of next meetings: Foundation-forming 19 UTC 28 October 2009
18:22 Ropuch Yep
18:22 slef I've got to go discuss the road company.  Can someone else send it, please?
18:22 slef Ropuch: postponed a day so that nengard could be here.
18:23 slef Ropuch: see the summary link to the wiki pages that need creating
18:23 thd chris: I suggested sending an email and tentative agenda posted in the wiki  to nengard but I only had an autoreply
18:23 chris she is at a conference that is why
18:23 chris and yes it was postponed was my recollection
18:23 thd chris: was it postponed until after tomorrow?
18:24 chris ok, 10/29 for the foundation IRC meeting
18:24 chris and 4 Novmeber for the next general meeting
18:24 chris both 19:00 UTC
18:24 Ropuch Nice
18:24 chris so thats in about 24 hours
18:24 * paul_p did 6 patches for 3.2 today (acquisitions). Very happy to have had some time for some coding those days :D
18:24 chris -25 mins
18:24 paul_p 'morning chris
18:24 chris paul_p++
18:24 gmcharlt hi chris, paul_p
18:24 Ropuch paul_p: ++
18:24 paul_p hi gmcharlt
18:25 chris thd: if you have time to send out an email that would be good, otherwise i will send one when i get to work
18:25 chris hiya gmcharlt
18:25 paul_p still some to do... (there are some dirty bugs -merge problems, as it used to work at SAN-OP- that we must fix before you can merge our branch, gmcharlt
18:26 gmcharlt ok
18:26 chris paul_p: HLT are very excited to test, when you give the word :)
18:26 thd chris: my time is very short at the moment but I will look at the previous format and try.  I will at least start a blank agenda page first.
18:26 paul_p + jean andré is working on - select the delivery place and - better pdf printing (more flexible)
18:29 chris thd: thank you
18:31 * paul_p hungry. It's 7:30PM here, so, I go back home (tomorrow, my family come back after a few days vacations)
18:31 paul_p see you tomorrow #koha !
18:33 chris cya paul_p
18:42 chris_n paul_p: is jean working on pdf generation in koha?
18:42 chris_n if so, I'd love to collaborate
18:43 chris_n @later tell paul_p if jean is working on pdf generation in koha, I'd love to collaborate
18:43 munin chris_n: The operation succeeded.
18:45 brendan @wunder 93117
18:45 munin brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 17.2�C (11:40 AM PDT on October 28, 2009). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 25%. Dew Point: -3.0�C. Pressure: 29.90 in 1012.4 hPa (Steady).
18:49 francharb left #koha
18:50 chris ok off to work now
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19:24 |Lupin| joined #koha
19:24 |Lupin| hello there :)
19:25 chris_n hi |Lupin|
19:26 |Lupin| is it possible in Koha to search all records which have one item of a given ccode and no item with another given ccode, please ?
19:26 |Lupin| hello chris_n
19:30 sekjal |Lupin|: I think you could write some SQL that would give you all those records, but I'm not sure if the regular search interface would do that
19:31 |Lupin| sekjal: hmm, not ure it would be doable inpure sql, cause you have to extract the item fields and test their subfields...
19:32 schuster Question about record matching rules - search index - how do I found out what my options are?  Is there an index for 001 tag?
19:32 sekjal do you have your ccode mapped from MARC to a Koha database field?
19:34 |Lupin| sekjal: no
19:34 |Lupin| sekjal: hmm let me check...
19:36 |Lupin| sekjal: actually yes ! ccode is an fields of the items table, so the ccodes are mapped to that
19:36 |Lupin| but I'm not powerful enough with mysql to find out how to express it
19:37 |Lupin| it's something like
19:37 |Lupin| list all the biblionumbers
19:37 sekjal |Lupin|: great!  give me minute or two, and I'll see if I can whip up an SQL statement
19:37 |Lupin| such that there is a row (biblionumber,ccode1) in items and such that there is no row (biblionumber, code2) in items
19:38 |Lupin| with ccode1 and code2 fixed
19:38 joetho left #koha
19:38 |Lupin| sekjal: sure, thanks ! I'd be vry interested in learning how you'd soleve such a prolem, cause my sql is so rudimnetary...
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19:43 sekjal |Lupin|:  I think it would be something like this:
19:44 sekjal select distinct biblioitems.biblionumber from biblioitems, items where biblioitems.biblionumber = items.biblionumber AND items.ccode = $code1 AND items.ccode != $code2
19:44 chris schuster: you need to check the zebra files
19:46 chris specifically zebradb/marc_defs/marc21/biblios/record.abs
19:46 sekjal |Lupin|: the data set on my machine isn't really conducive to testing this, though.
19:46 |Lupin| sekjal: hmm the two tests should be on different column
19:47 |Lupin| sekjal: there are to conditions. (1) there is a row associating biblionumber and ccode1. (2) there is no columns associating biblionumber and ccode2
19:48 sekjal |Lupin|: yes, you're right, my SQL doesn't do it right
19:48 sekjal dang
19:48 schuster chris - you know another question is coming after that response to a librarian...  where are those and what am I looking for or where can I go to find the information I need to find out?
19:49 chris you are gonna have to learn a lot about zebra before those files make sense, short answer is no, there isnt an index on 001
19:49 schuster shucks
19:49 chris heres 245a
19:50 chris melm 245$a      Title-cover:w,Title-cover:p,Title​-cover:s,Title:w,Title:p,Title:s
19:50 chris that says it has a bunch of indexes
19:50 chris Title:w,Title:p,Title:s
19:50 chris a word one :w, a phrase one :p and its sortable :s
19:50 chris now 001 is this
19:51 chris melm 001        Control-number
19:51 chris no indexes
19:52 schuster do you have to have an index to match on it?
19:52 gmcharlt that does signal that it's indexed - just not specific qualified as a word or phrase index
19:52 gmcharlt and yes, a tag has to be indexed in order to find records in the database that are matches
19:53 schuster It is indexed, I know that but can I use that as a match point?
19:53 gmcharlt yes, assuming that the index is also mapped to a CCL index name (in
19:55 schuster where would I find to determine if it is mapped?
19:56 schuster dig and yea shall find... :)
19:56 schuster found it.
19:58 schuster so I see #control number-local then I see
19:58 schuster local-number 1=12 (notice no # in front)
19:59 schuster then sn Local-number
20:00 gmcharlt ah, right I skipped a step
20:00 gmcharlt is Control-number listed in bib1.att
20:00 gmcharlt ?
20:02 schuster where would I found that information?
20:03 gmcharlt bib1.att is yet another Zebra config file
20:05 sekjal |Lupin| well, one inefficient way to do it is to do a couple nested statements;  get a list of all the biblionumbers that match the first criteria, and another that match all the second criteria, and then select only biblionumbers that are IN both those sets
20:06 jwagner left #koha
20:06 |Lupin| sekjal: wouldyou use create view to build both sets, or which construct ?
20:07 thd is now known as thd-away
20:08 chris @later tell thd thanks for sending the email
20:08 munin chris: The operation succeeded.
20:08 sekjal |Lupin| not sure the more efficient way; I experimented with 'IN'
20:09 schuster gmcharlt - ok bib1.att looks like att 12 is local-number based on the above?  local-number 1=12?
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20:10 sekjal select biblionumber from biblio where biblionumber IN (select distinct biblionumber from items where ccode = $code1) AND biblionumber IN (select distinct biblionumber from items where ccode != $code2)
20:10 gmcharlt ah is your 001 mapped to Local-number in record.abs?
20:12 schuster melm 001 Control number?
20:12 |Lupin| sekjal: ah I didn't know the IN bit, many thanks ! This one will definitely be _very_ helpful, thanks a lot !
20:13 schuster WOW this has been a very educational Koha IRC day for me ;O
20:14 sekjal |Lupin| I ran a query with just 1 IN clause, and it took a VERY long time.  it seems to me there has to be a more efficient way to do it, but if you only need the report once, this'll do
20:16 |Lupin| sekjal: yeah, it's one shot.. thanks :)
20:16 sekjal |Lupin| happy to help!
20:19 schuster unfortunately when I type what is in the 001 as sn = 277250 it doesn't find anything, but if I search sn = 171127 which is in the 999 $c it does find it.
20:19 chris sekjal, if you wanna know why it took a while
20:20 chris run it with explain
20:21 schuster I already have a match point for the 999 reloading.  Unfortunately the MARC records that I have don't have the KOHA biblio number in them drat.
20:24 sekjal chris: I think I was searching on field that wasn't indexed.  the statement I gave |Lupin| ran MUCH faster, since biblio.biblionumber is indexed
20:24 chris yep, explain will confirm that for ya :)
20:24 sekjal thanks, chris!
20:28 chris @wunder wellington, nz
20:28 munin chris: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 6.0�C (9:00 AM NZDT on October 29, 2009). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: 4.0�C. Windchill: 1.0�C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Rising).
20:28 chris i thought it was cold
20:30 schuster @wunder plano, TX
20:30 munin schuster: The current temperature in Crooked Lane, Plano, Texas is 19.9�C (3:29 PM CDT on October 28, 2009). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 81%. Dew Point: 17.0�C. Pressure: 29.64 in 1003.6 hPa (Falling). Flash Flood Watch in effect from late tonight through Thursday evening...
20:30 wizzyrea @wunder lawrence ks
20:30 munin wizzyrea: The current temperature in Channel 6 Downtown, Lawrence, Kansas is 18.6�C (3:29 PM CDT on October 28, 2009). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 54%. Dew Point: 9.0�C. Pressure: 29.67 in 1004.6 hPa (Falling).
20:30 brendan @wunder 93103
20:30 munin brendan: The current temperature in Upper Riviera - Camino Alto, Santa Barbara, California is 16.9�C (1:29 PM PDT on October 28, 2009). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 19%. Dew Point: -7.0�C. Pressure: 29.80 in 1009.0 hPa (Falling).
20:31 chris_n2 @wunder 28334
20:31 munin chris_n2: The current temperature in Erwin, North Carolina is 25.0�C (3:59 PM EDT on October 28, 2009). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 57%. Dew Point: 16.0�C. Pressure: 29.91 in 1013 hPa (Steady).
20:31 sekjal @wunder 10016
20:31 munin sekjal: The current temperature in Peter Cooper Village, New York, New York is 12.9�C (4:30 PM EDT on October 28, 2009). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 98%. Dew Point: 13.0�C. Pressure: 29.55 in 1000.6 hPa (Rising).
20:31 owen munin: Is it time for me to go home?
20:31 munin owen: Error: "Is" is not a valid command.
20:31 chris_n2 @clockout
20:31 schuster munin time to go home?
20:31 munin chris_n2: Error: "clockout" is not a valid command.
20:31 munin schuster: Error: "time" is not a valid command.
20:31 chris southerly front come in from antartica .. there was actually a snow warning
20:32 * owen thinks it's time
20:32 owen Bye all
20:32 owen left #koha
20:33 chris_n2 meanwhile, we had an easterly that brought tropical air for an eye popping 26.6 C
20:33 chris the weather is mental
20:33 chris normally we are in the high teens by now
20:35 richard is now known as rich-away
20:37 wizzyrea chris: from Internet Librarian
20:37 chris looking now
20:37 sekjal is there a reason why Cataloging doesn't have a 'home' screen?  its the only area that doesn't.  it just goes straight to
20:37 chris there was talk on twitter about a kitty and fork or something and koha yesterday, i was wondering what that was about
20:38 chris wizzyrea: who was talking?
20:38 wizzyrea I'm not sure of his name >.<
20:39 wizzyrea oh yea, I didn't think it was all that funny but meh
20:39 |Lupin| k, till soon guys, have a nice continuation of day, nomatter what time it is in your TZ
20:39 wizzyrea there was I guess a graphic of a cat with a lime skin hat
20:39 wizzyrea and a giant fork
20:39 chris yeah, seemed they had it bass ackwards
20:39 wizzyrea they were like HAHA THIS IS FUNNY
20:39 sekjal
20:39 |Lupin| left #koha
20:39 wizzyrea and I was like, I don't get it
20:40 chris yeah
20:40 chris yeah i tried asking who was talking
20:41 sekjal the tweets surrounding seem to reference this event:[…]dayEveningSession
20:42 chris wizzyrea: oh yeah thats an nz accent but someone who has lived overseas for a while
20:43 chris sekjal:
20:43 chris and i replied
20:43 chris
20:44 chris seriously, what is wrong with ben ide?
20:44 chris he has like email tourettes
20:45 chris from what i hear he is fine in person, but geez, what a troll on the lists
20:45 * chris isnt gonna feed the troll
20:46 sekjal yeah, he's a good guy in person, but some of the stuff he posts is... I dunno... ill-conceived?
20:46 chris im leaning to purposefully inflamatory
20:46 sekjal I finally looked up the two alternate domains he proposed
20:46 sekjal wtf?
20:46 chris happens to regularly to be anything eles
20:46 chris yeah, thats why i replied, "why would we want them? are you joking?" (in maori)
20:47 chris the latest one is a purposefully trollish one too
20:49 sekjal yeah, can't help but agree
20:50 chris_n2 Ben just does not get it
20:52 sekjal he's perfectly civil in person.  his presentation last Friday at UH was great
20:53 chris some people do weird things with email
20:53 chris its like they have different personas
20:53 sekjal I've known folks like that
20:54 chris "people arent close enough to hit me, ill act like a jerk"
20:57 sekjal ok, let's NOT use for KohaCon '10....
20:57 chris heh
20:58 wizzyrea that was actually the camera I think
20:58 wizzyrea the sound being so bad
20:58 chris yeah, i closed mine
20:58 sekjal wizzyrea: I'm having problems loading
20:59 wizzyrea :/ not so cool
20:59 wizzyrea it's a good idea though
20:59 sekjal indeed
20:59 chris yep, i think real time is gonna be hard to pull off
20:59 sekjal perhaps my frustrations are context dependent.
20:59 chris for kohacon10
21:00 sekjal chris:  yeah.  I did realtime streaming for my cataloging class one semester... absolute nightmare
21:00 gmcharlt I think the best we could likely manage for real-time stream would be slides and audio - full video would be expensive
21:00 chris *nod*
21:01 chris i think if we had digital camera's we could get them up within an hour or 2 of the session finishing though
21:01 gmcharlt and of course, there's that rather big ocean in the way (from a parochial non-ANZAC POV) ;)
21:01 chris yep
21:01 chris the lag would be a mare
21:02 chris realtime audio and slides would be doable i think
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21:03 chris and then the video on a US site within an hour or 2
21:03 chris the other thing to remember is
21:03 chris the time diff
21:03 sekjal yup
21:04 chris realtime if you have to stay up to 3am to watch it .. not so good
21:04 wizzyrea right, i'm guessing that the US'ers would probably not watch it real time
21:04 wizzyrea we'll watch it yesterday
21:04 wizzyrea wow, that's weird.
21:04 wizzyrea lol
21:04 chris BUT
21:04 wizzyrea :)
21:04 gmcharlt wizzyrea++
21:04 chris i would like to have a moderator for each session
21:04 chris who watches irc/twitter
21:04 chris_n2 wizzyrea: if you want to know what tomorrow will be like ask chris :-)
21:05 chris so we can take questions from there also
21:05 wizzyrea hehehehe
21:05 wizzyrea I do, almost every day
21:05 wizzyrea CHRIS... TELL ME ABOUT THE FUTURE!!!
21:05 schuster Chris et al - depending on what you want to do and when...  I might have a couple of solutions we could use.  Chris played with one yesterday.
21:05 wizzyrea mua hahahahaha
21:05 chris so that people who cant make it, can still participate if they want
21:05 chris yeah that worked pretty well
21:05 wizzyrea he's really good at staying on target
21:05 chris i have kids wizzyrea
21:05 wizzyrea oh snap, too true
21:06 schuster gone...  another night of american football unless it is raining too hard or lightening
21:07 schuster left #koha
21:09 chris Rutherford house is the leading contender for the conference so far
21:10 chris its part of victoria universtity
21:12 chris[…]rutherford+house/
21:15 chris and is right by the bus terminal, and railway station
21:17 sekjal sounds like a winner.  I REALLY hope I can make it
21:17 chris me too :)
21:19 sekjal stupid travel sites won't let me search for tickets over a year in advance
21:24 sekjal alright, time to travel on home.  cheers, #koha
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21:57 chris ahh thd took the bait
21:59 brendan that would be an interesting conversation to sit in on
22:00 brendan if that was an in-person meeting
22:00 brendan assets?
22:00 chris i think ben is saying we should have to buy
22:01 wizzyrea from LibLime
22:01 chris yeah
22:01 brendan I enjoyed the response in Maori
22:01 brendan you up for writing any more
22:01 chris sure :-)
22:01 brendan like why would we want to do that?  (again)
22:01 wizzyrea ok ttyl
22:01 chris cya wizzyrea
22:01 brendan later wizzyres
22:01 brendan wizzyrea
22:02 brendan so nengard will be stopping in SB in a little over an hour from now
22:02 chris ill think ill let it play out, thd's response was good
22:02 chris ohh cool
22:04 Ropuch Is "I'm hoping for new tutorials soon" a correct sentence?
22:04 chris yep
22:04 Ropuch Thanks :)
22:24 * chris_n2 wonders if Ares I-X had any perl running in it's "veins"
22:30 hdl_laptop hi
22:32 chris hiya hdl_laptop
22:32 chris working late
22:32 hdl_laptop just passing by. ;)
22:34 chris :)
22:38 brendan hi hdl_laptop
22:39 brendan cya in a bit
22:39 hdl_laptop hi brendan
22:43 hdl_laptop ok folks good night
22:44 chris sleep well
22:49 brendan left #koha
22:53 Nate ok time to signoff
22:53 Nate have a good evening everyone!
22:53 brendan joined #koha
22:58 Nate left #koha
23:16 chris left #koha
23:44 nahuel left #koha
23:53 nahuel joined #koha

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