IRC log for #koha, 2009-07-14

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
13:31 |Lupin| OT: any LaTeX users (experts) around ?
14:43 |Lupin| Is it possible in koha to create set of values where a value has an ID, a short textual representation and a long one ?
14:44 |Lupin| I guess it's not, so I'm asking just to be sure.
14:44 atz for some things... sounds like you are talking about authorities though?
14:45 |Lupin| atz: I don't konw
14:45 |Lupin| atz: I'm trying o find the best way to define a concept of format fr Koha
14:45 |Lupin| format -> file format
14:46 atz like .exe, .pdf, .txt, etc?
14:46 |Lupin| For that I'd need an id that may appear in tables, an extension and a description
14:46 |Lupin| at least these
14:46 |Lupin| but this may be a bit too much for KOha...
14:46 |Lupin| atz: yes, exactly
14:46 joetho it might be helpful to know why you need it.
14:47 |Lupin| joetho: we are trying to re-build a fornt end for a digital library around Koha, that's a story which is a bit long..
14:48 |Lupin| first I though creating an authorized value may be enough
14:48 |Lupin| but this one can't store extensions, for example
14:48 atz yeah, the part that would fall out is the "short textual description"
14:49 atz you only get one description field for auth. vals
14:49 atz but you can get an icon associated, which is nice for filetypes
14:50 |Lupin| atz: hmm. Assuming we use an icon, would there be an alternative text dsplayed ?
14:51 atz yeah, see[…]
14:52 atz The small "book" icon, for example
14:54 |Lupin| atz: the thing is we really need a textual desciption, since we wnat to say things like "word document but no structure", or "word document which is well structured".
14:54 |Lupin| And we also need file extensions.
14:55 |Lupin| atz: perhaps I could create an authorized value for the formats, which would store the long descriptions, and then another table in Koha's database which would bind each identifier to the other information Imay need ?
15:00 atz you could... sounds like a fair amount of design work though
15:00 atz you'd have to deal with zebra indexing and searching also, if you want that
15:01 |Lupin| atz: right... but I think it is something I can't avoid. After all, the intended use of koha is a bit special, so I don't think it is reasonable to expect being able to do everything without a bit of hacking.
15:01 |Lupin| atz: just trying to minimize this and to find the most elegant way of doing the adaptation...
15:01 atz right
15:02 |Lupin| atz: not sure I'll have to care about indexing so far, actually
15:02 |Lupin| atz: the file formats will be our CCODEs
15:02 |Lupin| atz: so I guess if we index them things will (should) work just fine.
15:03 |Lupin| the things kept in a separate table, such as extensions and so on, we don't really want to index...
15:05 |Lupin| atz: just one quesiton for clarifiaciton, pls
15:05 atz ?
15:06 |Lupin| atz: if in a table an authorizsed value is expected, what will apear in the table ? is it the content of the authorised_value field, or is it the content of the id field ?
15:07 atz not sure what you mean.... the authorsed_values table has a numerical primary key
15:08 |Lupin| yep
15:08 |Lupin| well
15:08 atz other tables typically use the "authorised_value"
15:08 |Lupin| assume you restrict a marc field to an authorized value field
15:08 |Lupin| ahah
15:09 |Lupin| atz: ok that's the answer I was looking for.
15:09 atz with the interface constraining the value to those available from a given category
15:09 |Lupin| atz: right
15:09 |Lupin| atz: and koha never has to go from an authorised_value to its primary kay ?
15:10 |Lupin| key
15:10 atz only when the key value itself is being updated, i think
15:11 atz not 100% sure on that
15:11 |Lupin| atz: ah I see, like if one wants to change the definition of one given value ?
15:11 atz that's what i'm thinking, yeay
15:12 atz *yeah
15:12 |Lupin| atz: ok. But then koha has to go through all the places where this value is used and update them ?
15:13 atz that does sound weird...  i guess i don't know
15:14 |Lupin| atz: ok, sorry for bugging you
15:14 atz s'ok, sorry i'm not more help
15:16 |Lupin| atz: np ! just going through a dump to see whether I couldn't figure it out
15:22 |Lupin| couldn't find anything obvious in the database
15:36 |Lupin| cioa tutti
15:51 kf hm, i'm looking for the Koha-Logo to use on on my documentation sheets - the logo[…]/?searchterm=logo reads free library system - the logo on fan stuff free library system und the logo used on login in my installation open-source integrated libary systems - i'm confused
15:51 kf ah, second is: open source library system, but there are three versions for the text
16:01 kf ok, nobody interested in logos ;) but I think you could get all versions and the green one on the old, now its only jpg and black and white :(
16:07 atz weird... feel free to use any of the current ones
16:09 kf I used "free library system" because I could download it from - would have preferred open source library systme, but cant get it - its on the cups and magnets
16:16 kf ok, time to go home - bye #koha
17:46 chris morning
18:08 pianohacker Good morning
18:09 pianohacker You're up early
18:09 chris yeah earlier than id like ... but not too bad
18:11 cait hi chris
18:11 cait thx for the logo!
18:13 chris no problemo
18:56 schuster wizzyrea around?
18:56 pianohacker schuster: Nope, doesn't seem to be around
18:56 pianohacker @seen wizzyrea
18:56 munin pianohacker: wizzyrea was last seen in #koha 3 days, 3 hours, 57 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <wizzyrea> hey, it made me laugh :P
18:57 pianohacker Anything we can help you with?
18:57 schuster Drat.
18:57 schuster Just curious what version of Koha they were running in production before I have LibLime upgrade my production server.
18:57 chris you can usually tell by looking at the source schuster
18:58 schuster I can tell what I'm running, I was curious what they were running and if they have run into any particular "bugs" that were problematic.
18:58 chris ame="generator" content="Koha 3.0100037"
18:58 chris i mean the html source :)
18:59 schuster OK so you are smarter than me when it comes to this Koha stuff, but we've known that for a LONG time!
18:59 chris got that by viewing the source of[…]kcs_submit=Search
19:01 chris its a handy trick when you are nosey like me :)
19:01 pianohacker schuster: My library is on the same version
19:01 pianohacker What about yours?
19:07 schuster My test system is now running 0100032 so that is what my production will upgrade to.
19:09 jdavidb I know how come they're getting that date calc error--it's trying to check in an item that was not due.  
19:09 jdavidb rackum...sorry, folks...wrong window.
19:09 chris we have a whole wiki page for that at work jdavidb :)
19:10 jdavidb I'm sure.
19:10 pianohacker Does forgetting that you disabled your screensaver and typing your password into an IM window qualify?
19:10 chris yep
19:10 jdavidb Done that, too.
19:11 chris almost all of them involve needing to then change your password :)
19:11 pianohacker Heh
19:11 pianohacker In my case, it was at least someone I trusted (who didn't know it was my password)
19:11 pianohacker has a few examples of typing it into a busy channel (hate to be them)
19:13 joetho someone you trusted?
19:13 joetho hmmm.
19:16 joetho I have another reports question- this one is about patrons and circulation
19:17 pianohacker shoot
19:18 joetho to get a report on patrons who haven't checked anything out, i join to issues.issuedate with a WHERE issues.issuedate IS <01/01/01   -right?
19:18 joetho date syntax is probabbly wrong but I'll look it up[
19:19 pianohacker I think there is a borrowers who haven't checked anything out canned reported
19:19 pianohacker *canned report
19:19 joetho doesn't work.
19:19 pianohacker Not very surprising
19:19 joetho that's what 'canned' means.
19:20 jdavidb If you join to issues, I don't think you'll get what you want.  If a user hasn't checked anything out, then no issues point at their borrowernumber.
19:20 pianohacker SELECT borrowers.* FROM borrowers left join old_issues using (borrowernumber) where issues.issuedate is null;
19:20 pianohacker should do the trick
19:20 pianohacker It does have to be old_issues, since checkouts get moved there once they're returned
19:21 joetho ahh
19:21 joetho no wonder this was not making sense.
19:21 jdavidb pianohacker++
19:21 joetho Yes.
19:22 joetho gotta run off to a meeting but I will try this later.
19:22 joetho The Colorado Kid  rides back over the ridge
19:23 joetho searching for another town that needs some LAW
19:24 pianohacker Actually, mainly just for a town with a restaurant. It's 1:23, and I haven't had lunch yet
19:24 schuster jdavidb - thanks for the info earlier everything was there.
19:24 jdavidb Thought it would be, schuster.
19:24 paul_p hello US !
19:25 pianohacker Hi, paul
19:25 paul_p lot of ppl here today.
19:25 paul_p 9PM in France. Nice weather in Marseille. and july 14th (holiday) tomorrow...
19:27 pianohacker Ahh, Bastille Day, yes
19:27 pianohacker Have any plans?
19:27 paul_p with my 4 boys, probably going to the beach (10mn by foot from my home. lucky me ;-) )
19:28 pianohacker Very nice.
19:30 chris paul_p: same here ... but unfortunately it would be freezing at the beach today :)
19:30 paul_p hi chris ! No more sleeping ?
19:31 chris 7.30am .. getting kahu dressed and fed (at the feeding part now)
19:31 paul_p chris is a true geek: chatting even when eating...
19:31 chris and shout "Vive la Révolution!"
19:32 jwagner Allons enfants de la patrie (that's as much as I remember)
19:32 paul_p le jour de gloire est arrivé
19:33 jwagner Marchons, citoyens, formez vos batailles (apologies for spelling, it's remarkable what the mind dredges up when prompted)
19:34 jwagner I was a summer exchange student in France once -- was in Paris for 14 July.  Fireworks were very nice :-)
19:34 paul_p "vos bataillons" (not bataille) a bataillon is a warrior group. "battaille" is the battle itself.
19:34 jwagner Hey, I said I'd forgotten most of my French by now :-)
19:34 paul_p lot of dancing parties outdoors too
19:34 paul_p jwagner: lol
19:37 chris whats the hymn?
19:37 jdavidb "God of our Fathers."
19:37 chris i never knew that
19:37 chris nz has 2 anthems (and one is sung in english and maori .. so kinda 3)
19:38 pianohacker jdavidb: I didn't know that either
19:38 jdavidb yep.  My daughter's band director had a thang for that song, and so it got played at the football games, in addition to the anthem.
19:39 pianohacker Butchering the anthem is definitely a danger, though; "And the laaand, of the freeeeEE<erk>"
19:39 jwagner chris, one of the MAJOR drawbacks to being a baseball fan and going to live games (or watching them on television) is that you have to hear people who think they can sing try to sing the Star Spangled Banner.  It's painful.  I was at a game with a friend once -- we went to see a very good player who was going to retire at the end of the year.  We speculated on how many times he'd had to listen to the song over his career and it came to 2-3 THOUSAND.
19:39 chris ouch!
19:39 jdavidb pianohacker: It happens all.  the.  time.  
19:39 chris here we only have anthems at international events
19:39 jwagner And very few people can actually sing it well....
19:39 chris if 2 nz teams are playing, no anthem
19:40 jdavidb It's not like it's that hard, as composed.  But any embellishment you put on it just automatically sounds bad, because there's really no room for it.
19:40 paul_p in France, la marseillaise is only played for major finals
19:40 jwagner The tradition of singing it at baseball games goes back to World War I. Not sure if all the other sports go back that far, but it's sung at all the major pro sporting events.
19:40 ecorrado I also get to hear the Canadian anthem at a lot of the tracks in New York as well
19:41 pianohacker It does sound good on piano, though. Better than the vocal version, to my mind
19:41 pianohacker Hi, ecorrado
19:41 ecorrado hi pianohacker
19:42 jdavidb There's a fellow in Abilene who does it really well.  He sings it tune-perfect, but throws the tempo out the window, when singing a capella.  Takes his sweet time finishing, and if you're not on your feet cheering, you're probably deaf.
19:45 chris the nz one sounds horrible all the time (well IMHO)
19:47 chris
19:53 chris ok, off to work i go, via 'simply paris' to get some croissant :)
19:53 chris ttyl
19:53 jdavidb See ya, chris.
19:54 paul_p good day chris
20:37 chris back
20:38 jdavidb Chris, I think the NZ anthem is a lovely piece of music.  :)  
20:39 jdavidb Not trivially easy to sing, to be sure.
20:39 chris hehe, to each his own :)
20:40 jdavidb It helps, I think, to hear the first verse in Maori--since I don't speak it.  Then I have to listen to the *music*.  It's nice.
20:43 paul_p bye & good "bastille day" to everyone (even if it means nothing specific for you ;-) )
20:43 pianohacker bye, you too
20:57 richard hi
20:57 chris heya richard
20:57 pianohacker richard: good morning
20:57 chris working from the lovely island bay today?
20:58 richard yep. my day of the week in wellington's costa del sol :)
20:58 chris :)
21:01 chris pianohacker: what do you use to read your mail?
21:01 pianohacker GMail
21:01 pianohacker you?
21:01 chris mutt
21:01 chris + offlineimap + buffycli
21:02 chris was gonna show you buffycli, which i love .. but if you use gmail it wont help :)
21:02 chris
21:04 pianohacker This does look interesting, though I wish she had a gitweb up
21:05 chris ill ping her
21:13 joetho where is sekjal today?
21:13 chris at ala
21:13 chris in the liblime coming soon session
21:13 chris[…]tions-at-ala.html
21:13 joetho but of course.
21:14 joetho that explains my verrrrry interesting twit feed that I just noticed.
21:14 chris oh excellent my question was answered, it will be in 3.2
21:23 joetho hello nahuel
22:33 Jo morning
22:34 chris hi jo
22:39 Jo just sending an email reminder about Friday.
22:39 Jo no word on whether Catalyst might like to sponsor lunch for 12? $180
22:40 Jo if not no problem - its a cheap enough day anyway
22:41 chris i think its a no i havent been able to pigeonhole a director long enough to get an answer
22:42 Jo no worries
23:20 pianohacker bye
03:24 Amit hi chris, Jo
03:24 Amit Good morning #koha
03:29 Novice I would like to send an aotometic notification mail to book borower if h/she near to deadline
03:29 Novice can any one suggest me anything that how could i do that?
03:29 Novice i m learning koha.....not expart user
03:32 Amit hi novice
03:33 Novice hello amit
03:58 Amit heya brendan
03:59 brendan heya Amit
07:08 SelfishMan My eye is twitching from trying to fix the old "Cannot decode string with wide characters" in error
07:09 SelfishMan For future reference: pulling the latest XML::LibXML from cpan makes it all shiny and happy
07:11 SelfishMan I also pulled the latest Encode, XML::SAX and XML::Simple before that so that may be part of it
07:11 SelfishMan (in that order)
07:11 chris i had lunch with Grant who wrote XML::Simple and still maintains no one should actually use it :)
07:12 SelfishMan I say that about *all* my code
07:13 chris[…]ERE_TO_FROM_HERE?
07:13 SelfishMan My standard warning starts with "If you are desperate enough to use this then seek immediate help.  If you insist on continuing, read on..."
07:14 SelfishMan This has been haunting me on a single install in one location and it pops up at random times for what seem to be no reason.  Personally, I blame OCLC.
07:14 chris[…]ng-FixLatin-1.00/  this is my current favourite module of his
07:14 chris it sounds like dubious encoding, something saying its utf8 when it isnt, or vice versa
07:16 SelfishMan Yeah, it certainly is and it looks like the bug has been lurking in koha installs since 2006
07:16 SelfishMan[…]lay.html?id=19367
07:17 chris yeah, using expat is documented
07:17 chris in the install file
07:19 chris at least in the INSTALL.debian one it is anyway
07:19 chris well, something to do with SAX and Expat :)
07:20 SelfishMan The expat thing didn't fix it though.  I tested it after I upgraded every one of those modules and it filed until I updated XML::LibXML
07:20 SelfishMan Expat was the first thing I played with
07:20 chris yeah thats what it says actually
07:20 SelfishMan eh?
07:20 chris You must be sure you're using the XML::LibXML SAX parser, not Expat or PurePerl, both of which have outstanding bugs with pre-composed characters.
07:21 SelfishMan hmmm...
07:21 chris section 2.3 of INSTALL.debian
07:21 SelfishMan where was that file when I needed it ;-P
07:23 chris :)
07:23 SelfishMan I guess that means it is time for bed
07:24 chris hehe
08:51 slef[…]tions-at-ala.html is interesting, especially Joann Ransom's comment.  Are LibLime aware of it?
08:55 chris the blog post, or jo's comment?
08:56 chris if its the former then yes, if its the latter, no idea :)
08:57 slef more about the comment... it reads like mild irritation that ALA conference-goers are knowing more than long-time koha community players, which I can understand, even if I suspect it may not be the case
08:58 slef marketing and truth aren't always best friends
08:58 chris *nod*
09:07 chris hi indradg
09:08 indradg chris, hi there :)
09:35 fredericd hi
09:35 fredericd Framework subfield definition 'hidden' seems not to work anymore. Has it worked at all? You can't control this way if a subfield is by default collapsed or expanded.
09:35 fredericd Can someone confirm?
09:36 fredericd (in biblio record editor)
10:31 greenmang0 indradg: hello
11:12 Amit hi galen, indradg
11:12 gmcharlt hi Amit
11:14 gmcharlt @later tell pianohacker I'll look into my notes about the skip-commit patch
11:14 munin gmcharlt: The operation succeeded.
11:42 Amit hi jwagner
11:46 gmcharlt hi jwagner

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