IRC log for #koha, 2009-06-09

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:09 eiro i want to create an INSTALL.macports directory in the koha root with all required files. any objection ?
12:10 gmcharlt eiro: none from me
12:11 eiro so i do
12:11 gmcharlt eiro++
12:12 eiro :)
13:26 slef I don't like the INSTALL.freds-pet-OS proliferation
13:26 slef INSTALL should cover the basic principles with some "install as much as possible from packages and here's some ways to find them" section
13:27 slef but maybe I'm a lone voice
13:59 elwell IMHO it should be INSTALL.os and within that differences between versions (case in point - deb4/5 should be same file with notes about whats provided as std by vendor)
15:08 eiro slef, i agreed ... i just do as the others
15:09 eiro i don't try to change the abits of koha people
15:09 eiro just using it
15:09 gmcharlt one thing to keep in mind is a lot of newbie sysadmins try to install Koha
15:09 gmcharlt until a one-stop package is available for a particular platform
15:09 gmcharlt the INSTALL.foo have value IMO
15:11 eiro gmcharlt, i think it would never be like this with macports because you have to install mysql and apache as seraparated process
15:12 eiro the best we can do is use Module::Build to make a cpan Koha::Bundle and create a p5-koha-bundle port
15:13 gmcharlt eiro: there is a Bundle::Koha, but it hasn't been updated for nearly a year
15:14 gmcharlt Bundle::KohaSupport, rather
15:15 eiro gmcharlt, it's easier for me to create a new one than to hijack the old
15:16 eiro gmcharlt, the old one is using MakeMaker, afaik
15:16 gmcharlt eiro: go for it, then, though Mike probably should get a courtesy email
15:16 eiro this is the old way to build modules and i'm not confortable with it
15:24 slef gmcharlt: variously, they'll look at INSTALL if there's no INSTALL.my-pet-os and newbie sysadmins maybe should be a little scared
15:25 slef eiro: is Module::Build better than MakeMaker in this situation?  Didn't look like it gave much benefit when I looked a few years ago.
15:25 slef except M::B reduced portability very slightly IIRC
16:41 joetho I'm talkin but I ain't hearin.
16:42 joetho <---whoops, wrong channel. Excuse my dumbness.
16:44 slef huh?
19:46 pianohacker gmcharlt: What's the story behind chris's signoffs on your add warnings patches? One-time request for review?
19:49 gmcharlt pianohacker: yes
19:49 pianohacker ok
20:07 chris eiro you should talk to mike, who did koha::bundlesupport, and discuss your plans
20:07 chris i hate dupiclated work
20:07 chris sorry bundle::kohasupport
20:07 chris he updated it with the 3.0.0 release, im sure he would be happy to work with you
20:13 gmcharlt elwell: how would you know if the backup system silently stops working?
20:14 elwell gmcharlt: same as now - I only check the status once in a blue moon and then have to wade through mails. I cast an eye over the bacula client on wifes windows machine once in a while when I'm using it (handy systray icon) but the debian box that is the headless server rareley gets logged into
20:15 elwell (this is at home, not a production site)
20:15 gmcharlt could be just as important if you lose your wife's photos ;)
20:16 elwell meh, all the good ones are on flickr and my laptop :-)
20:17 elwell 'lost - one sipura voip adapter' I can see the LEDs blinking but can't remmber its IP. nmap time...
20:17 pianohacker elwell: http://bash.org/?5273
20:18 elwell that the ping but can
20:18 elwell t find it one?
20:29 pianohacker yup
20:29 elwell Product Information
20:29 elwell Product Name:SPA-3102
20:30 elwell :-) success
20:37 chris kahu just picked up the phone and 'called' his daycare and said "kahu not coming today, staying to watch dinosaurus rex with daddy"
20:38 wizzyrea chris: omg... too funny
20:38 chris 1/ he is going, and 2/ even if he wasnt, i have no idea where to find a tyrannosaurus rex in wellington anywyay
20:38 pianohacker dinosaurus rex!
20:40 wizzyrea well there's always the library, right?
20:40 wizzyrea probably plenty of tyrannosaurs there...
20:40 chris yeah, but they use TLC and i cant make their catalogue work
20:40 chris :)
20:40 wizzyrea HA
20:40 wizzyrea touché
20:41 wizzyrea LOL
20:41 gmcharlt chris++
20:41 wizzyrea devious, I like it
20:41 wizzyrea chris++
20:41 pianohacker Just sic the billing manager on 'im, he'll get his fill of tyrannosaurs
20:41 chris hehe
20:42 wizzyrea that's tyrants... oh never mind
20:42 wizzyrea this is my favorite time of day in #koha
20:43 chris end of the day for you?
20:46 elwell chris: age of koha?
20:46 wizzyrea yea, end of day for n. americans, beginning of the day for NZ, everyone has the promise of the rest of the day ahead of them
20:46 chris koha or kahu?
20:47 chris wizzyrea: heh yep, and i dont have to go to work either :)
20:47 elwell kahu sorry, I'm waiting for the 'my daddy is <something embarrasing>' when asked to say about home life. :-)
20:47 wizzyrea a little sad that the french folks are mostly asleep
20:47 chris elwell: 2 years and 7 months
20:48 wizzyrea chris: nice!
20:48 chris he is really dawdling on eating his toast
20:48 elwell ... we then moved :-)
20:48 chris delaying tactics
20:48 chris heheh thats mean
20:50 elwell chris: enjoy it while you can -- the days of being able to bribe them to do X with some smarties have long evolved into more expensive things. curses at apple for creating the ipod.
20:51 chris i can still bribe him with stories
20:51 chris long may it last
20:51 chris :)
20:51 elwell aye
21:04 chris gmcharlt: did you see we passed 10,000 ?
21:05 pianohacker $ git log --oneline | wc -l
21:05 pianohacker 10004 <- Yay!
21:06 chris :)
21:06 chris and thats just in master, so thats pretty neat
21:07 chris ill add that to the history doc, and ill leave it for gmcharlt to blog about :)
21:25 gmcharlt celebrating_arbitrary_numbers++ ;)
21:25 gmcharlt s/arbitrary/symbolic/
21:27 wizzyrea I think I"ll get excited when we hit 12345 patches
21:27 wizzyrea 12:34 is my favorite time of day
21:27 wizzyrea 11:23 is a close second
21:27 pianohacker gmcharlt: Would it be possible to take the old newlogbot logs, grep for '++|--', and feed them into munin, for total karma?
21:28 pianohacker Hehe, 12:34 is fun (12:34, too, if you're a night owl)
21:28 pianohacker *12:34 AM
21:28 gmcharlt wizzyrea: better get cracking then
21:28 wizzyrea man, I bet you do 1k patches a month... I'm not sure if/when you sleep
21:28 gmcharlt pianohacker: let's make a deal - I'll give you a text file of all log entries with ++ or --, and you give me a python script to feed it into munin's database
21:29 pianohacker Hmm. Sounds like a plan :)
21:29 wizzyrea ooh, it's a geek challenge!
21:29 gmcharlt a clever disguise for my plan to make pianohacker do most of the work
21:30 pianohacker Bah, I need a distraction from my Japanese kanji flashcards anyway
21:33 wizzyrea not such a clever disguise now that you've admitted it!
21:34 gmcharlt doh!
21:37 pianohacker Hello, owen
21:38 owen Hi pianohacker
21:38 pianohacker How're the kids treating you?
21:41 owen Sorry, I'd have answered sooner but they all started yelling at once ;)
21:41 pianohacker That's actually a fairly good answer :P
21:43 owen Hopping onto #koha when I'm at home usually is their cue to become needy
21:43 pianohacker Young children do have, if nothing else, a sense of timing
21:45 gmcharlt pianohacker: I just emailed you the data file for karma
21:46 pianohacker Ok, thanks
21:53 pianohacker There are not _nearly_ enough IE--'s in here
21:53 gmcharlt no stuffing the ballot box!
21:54 pianohacker Bah, I'll just have diebold write the script for me
21:54 gmcharlt considering Diebold used MS Access in their voting machines, I'd watch out for lots of IE++
21:55 pianohacker heh
22:22 gmcharlt pianohacker: are you anywhere near the Rangeview Library District?  http://www.rangeviewld.org/ran[…]ng-dewey%E2%80%9D
22:23 pianohacker Hmm, about two hours away
22:23 pianohacker I need to organize a road trip with some colleagues from my library
22:23 pianohacker thanks
22:30 chris 3back
22:30 chris -3
22:44 chris and now away again
22:54 pianohacker Okay, data sent back
22:56 pianohacker Bah, gmcharlt:
23:01 pianohacker gmcharlt: Logging off for day, let me know if the import succeeds
23:01 pianohacker Bye, all
23:02 chris that dudes a legend
23:02 chris pianohacker++
23:06 gmcharlt @karma
23:06 munin gmcharlt: Highest karma: "paul_p" (50), "hdl_laptop" (39), and "chris" (28).  Lowest karma: "savannah" (-3), "encoding" (-3), and "ie" (-2).  You (gmcharlt) are ranked 6 out of 221.
23:07 gmcharlt pianohacker++
23:07 gmcharlt @later tell pianohacker karma imported successfully
23:07 munin gmcharlt: The operation succeeded.
23:08 gmcharlt @karma koha
23:08 munin gmcharlt: Karma for "koha" has been increased 4 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 4.
23:08 gmcharlt @karma git
23:08 munin gmcharlt: Karma for "git" has been increased 3 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 3.
23:34 ryan uh, git++ ?
23:34 chris heh
23:35 chris @karma git
23:35 munin chris: Karma for "git" has been increased 3 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 3.
23:35 chris @karma uh, git
23:35 munin chris: git: 3.  uh, has neutral karma.
23:35 chris @karma uh, git?
23:35 munin chris: I didn't know the karma for any of those things.
23:35 chris i wonder where that karma went :)
23:35 chris git++
23:36 gmcharlt @karma git
23:36 munin gmcharlt: Karma for "git" has been increased 4 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 4.
23:36 chris i think the uh, must have confused it?
23:36 chris or maybe the ?
23:36 ryan i guess it doesn't count such  noncommittal kudos :)
23:37 chris hehe
23:37 gmcharlt or is it the spaces git++
23:37 ryan git++ !!!
23:37 gmcharlt @karma git
23:37 munin gmcharlt: Karma for "git" has been increased 4 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 4.
23:37 ryan dang
23:37 gmcharlt git++ ?
23:37 gmcharlt @karma git
23:37 munin gmcharlt: Karma for "git" has been increased 4 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 4.
23:37 chris yeah seems nothing can trail the ++
23:37 gmcharlt we'll see about that
23:41 gmcharlt @reload Karma
23:41 munin gmcharlt: The operation succeeded.
23:41 gmcharlt git++ # smarter, now?
23:41 gmcharlt @karma git
23:41 munin gmcharlt: Karma for "git" has been increased 4 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 4.
23:42 gmcharlt git++ # smarter, now?
23:42 gmcharlt @karma git
23:42 munin gmcharlt: Karma for "git" has been increased 4 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 4.
23:43 gmcharlt @reload Karma
23:43 munin gmcharlt: The operation succeeded.
23:43 gmcharlt git++ # smarter, now?
23:43 chris he's mocking you
23:43 gmcharlt @karma git
23:43 munin gmcharlt: Karma for "git" has been increased 4 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 4.
23:44 gmcharlt space git++
23:44 gmcharlt @karma git
23:44 munin gmcharlt: Karma for "git" has been increased 4 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 4.
23:44 gmcharlt @karma space git
23:44 munin gmcharlt: git: 4.  space has neutral karma.
23:46 gmcharlt git++ # work, damn you!
23:46 gmcharlt @karma git
23:46 munin gmcharlt: Karma for "git" has been increased 4 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 4.
23:46 gmcharlt git++
23:46 gmcharlt @karma
23:46 munin gmcharlt: Highest karma: "paul_p" (50), "hdl_laptop" (39), and "chris" (28).  Lowest karma: "savannah" (-3), "encoding" (-3), and "ie" (-2).  You (gmcharlt) are ranked 6 out of 224.
23:46 gmcharlt @karma git
23:47 munin gmcharlt: Karma for "git" has been increased 5 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 5.
23:47 gmcharlt fine, be that way for now
23:51 chris hehe
23:53 gmcharlt git++ # work, damn you!
23:53 gmcharlt @karma git
23:53 munin gmcharlt: Karma for "git" has been increased 6 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 6.
23:53 gmcharlt success!
23:56 chris hehe
23:56 chris gmcharlt++
01:14 LBA Hi Chris, thought you should know I made it in. Thanks!
01:15 chris excellent :)
01:15 bignose-work howdy all
01:16 bignose-work I'm hoping to figure out why LDAP authentication isn't working, as per my message to the mailing list yesterday
01:16 chris ahh you have missed gmcharlt and atz, who know the most about it
01:16 bignose-work missed them? they're gone for the day? sheesh, bloomin' early knock-off kiwis :-)
01:17 chris they are americans
01:17 bignose-work ah. well then I wonder why they didn't respond to my message yesterday?
01:17 chris i only just saw it on the mailing list this morning
01:17 chris it may have got held up
01:18 bignose-work right. I made sure to send it last night so that a USA business day would elapse with that message in their face :-)
01:19 chris yep, they are pretty busy people, and have a bunch of clients they have to look after, so i suspect they just got busy
01:19 bignose-work understood.
01:19 bignose-work what can I do to troubleshoot further?
01:19 chris no idea, LDAP isnt used by any of the people i do Koha work for im afraid
01:20 bignose-work is it possible to see more detail of what Koha is doing when I try to authenticate?
01:20 chris you could put some warns in the code
01:20 bignose-work is there a logging level parameter I can tweak?
01:21 chris some scripts have a $DEBUG switch you can set to on, not sure about the LDAP module
01:22 bignose-work hmm. no configuration-file parameter for logging level?
01:22 chris there is one in system preferences
01:30 bignose-work hold on, what exactly does the “Unauthorized userâ€? message mean?
01:30 bignose-work it is displayed from the ‘auth.tmpl’ template if ‘nopermission’ is set
01:31 bignose-work but that doesn't mean the *authentication* failed, does it?
01:31 bignose-work Could it be that I've actually succeeded in logging in, but the account has no authorization?
01:31 chris could well be
01:31 chris what permissions does the user have?
01:32 bignose-work I've no idea.
01:32 bignose-work I'm not a Koha user, I'm setting it up for a client, so I'm very new at how it works.
01:32 bignose-work how can I tell whether a user is known to Koha and what permissions they have?
01:32 chris if you go to the librarian interface, and search for that user, then you can check the permissions
01:33 bignose-work the librarian interface, is that what I get when I log in as the administrator of the Koha database?
01:33 bignose-work or do I need to visit a different page for that?
01:33 chris as long as your arent going to the opac thats right
01:33 bignose-work okay, I searched for the user by name and got no results.
01:35 bignose-work but if I succssfully authenticate, and the config has ‘<replicate>1</replicate>’ in the ‘<ldapserver>’ section, that should mean the user is replicated when they first log in. right?
01:36 chris i think so, as i said, i have never used the LDAP part of koha
01:39 bignose-work okay. which database table should I be querying to know whether the user is in it?
01:39 bignose-work the ‘user_permissions’ table has no records.
01:40 chris borrowers
01:40 bignose-work also empty.
01:40 chris doesnt look like it made the user then
01:41 bignose-work thanks. can you think of any further diagnosis I can do, before sending another message for our friends across the pond?
01:41 chris not apart from putting some warns in the code and seeing where its getting stuck
01:42 bignose-work I'd like to leave the code untouched since I'm not prepared to root around fixing it if I mess it up :-)
01:42 bignose-work thanks for your help
01:42 chris fair enough, good luck :)
02:51 chris hmm can anyone get to http://koha.org ?
02:52 Jo hi Chris.
02:52 Jo hows the family?
02:53 chris pretty good, kahu is at daycare and atarau is chilling on the couch with me
02:53 Jo lovely :)
03:50 chris wow koha.org is totally dead
06:00 thd chris: at least we know that the problem is not that NZ lost internet access as in times in the past :)
06:09 kf good morning #koha
06:09 thd good morning kf
06:31 eiro chris, i read your lines: i will (if i work on it)
06:50 chris thd: nope, im getting proxy error? looks like the plone instance is down
06:50 chris eiro: excellent :-)
06:51 thd chris: yes scripts to ensure your Zope instance keeps running are important
06:59 paul_p hi chris & thd & anyone else
06:59 chris hi there paul_p
06:59 thd hello paul_p
07:00 eiro hi paul_p
07:07 chris hi Kivutar
07:07 Kivutar hello all :)
07:07 chris i noticed with your patches, that you might need to run git-config
07:08 chris to set your email address
07:08 Kivutar it's strange, I ran it to set my name and email, but it doesn't seem to work
07:08 chris ahh did you do the --global option?
07:09 Kivutar and I checked my .gitconfig too
07:09 chris weird
07:09 Kivutar yeah I did
07:09 Kivutar this is my .gitconfig :
07:09 Kivutar [user]
07:09 Kivutar name = Jean-André Santoni
07:09 Kivutar email = jeanandre.santoni@biblibre.com
07:10 chris odd, not sure what happened ... unless they are old commits?
07:10 Kivutar no they aren't
07:10 Kivutar ahhh maybe!
07:11 Kivutar yeah, you're right, I commited before setting these options
07:13 Kivutar thanks
07:17 nahuel gmcharlt, hi
07:17 nahuel gmcharlt, my patch about diacritics in categorycodes, it's because diacritics are allowed in the code
07:17 nahuel gmcharlt, It's logical diacritics should not be allowed in "codes", but well, some installation already have diacritics.
07:20 chris i think he might still be asleep
07:23 chris right, getting kahu ready for bed, bbiab
07:23 nicomo_laptop hi all
07:23 nahuel chris, hmmm
07:23 nahuel chris, hi !
07:23 nahuel :)
07:23 nahuel munin, tell gmcharlt  my patch about diacritics in categorycodes, it's because diacritics are allowed in the code
07:23 nahuel munin, tell gmcharlt  It's logical diacritics should not be allowed in "codes", but well, some installation already have diacritics.
07:24 nahuel hehe
07:31 chris you can do this nahuel
07:34 chris @later tell gmcharlt something :)
07:34 munin chris: The operation succeeded.
07:34 chris but it works on login i think
07:34 chris @help later
07:34 munin chris: Error: There is no command "later".
07:34 nahuel ok
07:35 nahuel well i'll retell him when he'll be alive
07:35 chris so it only works for people who have logged out :)
07:35 chris paul_p:  did you see this?
07:35 chris @karma
07:35 munin chris: Highest karma: "paul_p" (50), "hdl_laptop" (39), and "chris" (28).  Lowest karma: "savannah" (-3), "encoding" (-3), and "ie" (-2).  You (chris) are ranked 3 out of 224.
07:36 chris you can do 50 bad things now :-)
07:36 paul_p hehe... I'm quite surprised, as I am quite silent here ;-)
07:42 chris @later tell nicomo_laptop stick around a bit longer this time :)
07:42 munin chris: The operation succeeded.
07:42 kf hi there, I have a question about Koha and nonfiling characters and sorting - I found that  sortbynonfiling (Sort search results by MARC nonfiling characters) is deprecated - so Koha cant sort according to nonfiling characters?
07:43 kf speaking of MARC21
07:43 chris ahh, i dont know im afraid
07:44 kf my tests say Koha cant - but dont wanted to say something like that without asking
07:45 kf http://lists.koha.org/pipermai[…]ruary/005805.html < Koha was able to do it
07:46 chris interesting, i think you might need to ask gmcharlt
07:46 kf cant find out, why its deprecated in bugzilla @bug 1960 :(
07:46 munin Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/b[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1960 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, paul.poulain@biblibre.com, ASSIGNED, sortbynonfiling deprecated
07:49 kf ok, thx chris
07:54 chris hmm maybe paul_p knows
07:57 kf I think its handled differently in UNIMARC, with nonfiling characters, marc21 uses second indicator
07:58 chris @wunder lyno
07:58 munin chris: I suck
07:58 chris @wunder lyon
07:58 munin chris: downloading the Perl source
07:58 chris @wunder lyon, france
07:58 munin chris: downloading the Perl source
07:58 chris gah
07:58 hdl_laptop Kf it depends on the ILS.
07:58 paul_p kf: yep, it's handled differentsly in UNIMARC
07:59 hdl_laptop kf: with MARC21 indicator, it could be managed with dom-config for MARC21.xml
08:00 kf for sorting or for search?
08:01 hdl_laptop for sorting, at leaset, and if you want for search
08:01 kf dont know what can be done with MARC21.xml and to make it more complicate we are using Zebra with ICU
08:01 kf ok, will have to ask my colleague to look into this
08:02 hdl_laptop we have done some testing on dom config and icu, and it worked out quite well, But I couldnot send the configuration and integrate it well into the project.
08:04 kf will ICU be part of Koha soon? We are using a file, I found on the mailing list
08:04 kf and you cant use fuzzy search with ICU
08:05 chris what are the benefits of ICU kf?
08:06 kf you cant search for hebrew without it
08:07 kf as far as I understand, without you can only index up to 256 characters
08:07 kf when searching for hebrew before using icu, you always got all hebrew titles back
08:08 kf in results
08:11 chris ahh
08:11 chris in that case its probably needed for lots of other languages
08:25 kf and ICU has some awesome features for transliteration
08:25 chris is there an RFC for it on the wiki?
08:28 kf no
08:29 chris i think we should write one up, would you be able to start one?
08:29 chris feel free to say no, if you dont have time
08:30 kf I cant do it, perhaps we can share the file we use
08:30 kf but all we did so far came from snippets on the mailing list
08:30 kf Im searching for one particular mail to show you atm
08:31 kf http://spedr.com/5j29b
08:32 chris i will try to talk to galen about it
08:33 kf Marc Nürnberger is German - found out last week
08:33 chris i see that other people have been trying to do it, (someone from thailand)
08:33 kf they have Chinese, Japanese and Korean titles
08:34 chris so definitely it is wanted
08:34 chris ohh cool
08:34 kf perhaps we can put something together
08:34 chris that would be awesome
08:35 kf dont know if hes here *looking around* but writing an email is on my list
08:35 chris :)
08:46 chris kf++
08:49 hdl_laptop chris: we already have one which is getting better and better for french
08:50 chris ohh, cool, so maybe we need a place like the sql page, where we can put all the files for people to use? or maybe a directory in git we can store them?
08:50 kf hi hdl, sorry, I did not remember you working on ICU :(
08:53 hdl_laptop chris: directory in git rather.
08:54 hdl_laptop hehe Kf I think it is I who sent first icu.xml ;)
08:54 chris yep that would be good, easier to track
08:54 kf uh
08:54 hdl_laptop or rather nahuel
08:54 kf I did not remember and when searching for the mail, I thought it was Galen - im sorry, again
08:55 hdl_laptop no problem
08:55 kf hdl++ (for the file :) )
09:09 chris paul_p: are you going to watch the game this weekend?
09:14 chris hmm what is SIGB?
09:16 hdl_laptop ILS
09:20 chris ahh ta
09:50 paul_p chris : SIGB is ILS in french : Système Intégré de Gestion de Bibliothèques
09:50 chris right nicomo's tweet makes sense now
09:50 paul_p Système = système. Intégré = integrated, bibliothèque = libary
09:50 paul_p Gestion = management
11:46 Gaurav Hi chris
11:46 Gaurav I am from osslabs.biz
11:46 gmcharlt hi Gaurav
11:47 Gaurav hi gmcharlt
11:47 gmcharlt clay is looking at the koha.org issue
11:53 Gaurav chris: koha staff hindi translation has been completed 100%
11:53 Gaurav see this : http://translate.koha.org/hi/
11:54 gmcharlt yay
11:54 Gaurav see also : http://kohav3demo.osslabs.biz:8080/
11:55 Gaurav kohaadmin/kohapassword
11:55 Gaurav click on Hindi
11:56 elwell Q - koha.org/showcase -- there's none in Europe showing. Shurely shome mishtake mr bond.
11:59 Gaurav gmcharlt : hey Galen..have u seen that hindi translation?
11:59 |Lupin| hello everybody

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