IRC log for #koha, 2007-11-29

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
11:58 kados hiya paul
13:06 paul hello kados
13:41 paul kados around ?
13:43 owen Hi paul
13:43 paul hello owen
13:43 paul about your yesterday circ question :
13:44 paul I don't know either, I think it's just to be sure the librarian has taken the request in account.
13:44 paul and has put the book in the shelf for transfert.
13:44 paul iirc, it's a katipo v1 feature.
13:44 owen I think we should remove the "confirm" button, and simply display the message. What do you think?
13:45 owen To me, the confirm button implies that the user must stop and click it in order to continue
13:45 paul I agree. having just a "ok" button is useless.
13:45 paul and I don't know why we would have another option
13:52 kados I think the reason for the confirm button originally was to force the user to make the concious choice to initiate the transfer
13:52 kados ie, they had to 'stop'
13:52 kados and make sure the put it in the right basket
13:52 paul yep, that's my feeling
13:52 kados rather than just being able to scan ... scan ... scan ...
13:53 paul kados : i've activated : WebBasedSelfCheck, but can't see anything in opac
13:53 paul have I missed something ? or is it still not working ?
13:53 kados it works
13:53 kados go to /cgi-bin/koha/sco/
13:53 paul so what should I see in OPAC ?
13:53 paul ah, no link directly in OPAC ?
13:53 kados no
13:53 kados it's secret :-)
13:54 paul ok, so that's what i missed ;-)
13:54 kados and it requires a librarian to log in first
13:54 kados perhaps in a future version it will become a separate interface
13:54 paul so why do we need a syspref ?
13:54 kados to enable/disable it
13:54 paul if the librarian must activate it everytime, he's supposed to know that he want the feature !
13:54 kados some libraries won't want it at all
13:55 kados every time?
13:55 paul (note that choosing SCO as directory name will make floss ppl laught or be upset)
13:56 kados hehe, yea
13:56 paul http://o15.bureau.paulpoulain.[…]a/sco/
13:56 paul the page is blank.
13:56 paul (I'm supposed to have an uptodate repo)
13:56 kados not blank for me
13:57 kados I see some french stuff :-)
13:57 paul (I mean just the blue header + "Ma bibliothèque" as title
13:57 paul but no link to checkout
13:57 kados did you log in with permissions?
13:57 kados or as a normal patron?
13:57 kados you must log in as a librarian first
13:57 paul i've logged in with a library account.
13:58 paul all permissions
13:58 kados then as a patron, use your cardnumber (not password)
13:59 owen Ah, so you log in to the OPAC as a librarian, then go to
13:59 paul If I don't login before reaching, same result : request for login/password and once i've typed it, empty page
13:59 paul (login : abel/abel)
14:01 owen Paul, is that installation working properly? When I go to http://o15.bureau.paulpoulain.[…]koha/ I get an unstyled page. It looks like the header include isn't loading
14:01 paul it's french that is not uptodate. force english
14:01 paul (i've set english by default myself now)
14:02 owen Strange... sco-main is coming up for me in my test install, but not in yours.
14:04 paul ok, i'll investigate this problem later.
14:04 paul kados, another question that is important : does adv search for you on staff and opac ?
14:04 paul because it works fine on opac, but not on staff.
14:05 kados it works fine for me on both
14:05 owen paul: I noticed the same thing this morning
14:05 paul search works fine when done through a tab form however
14:05 owen ditto
14:05 kados hmmm
14:06 kados I'll look today
14:06 owen When I put in a single keyword in the adv form I get an error: Can't call method "size" on an undefined value at /blah/blah/blah/C4/ line 391
14:06 paul another question : on opac, on, I see : [similar products:] at the bottom of everypage :
14:06 paul http://o15.bureau.paulpoulain.[…]
14:07 kados that should be wrapped in a TMPL_IF
14:07 paul owen or kados : do you have an idea where it can come from ?
14:07 kados my fault, sorry
14:07 kados it's a long-standing feature of, but wasn't in the template previously
14:07 owen kados: you an I need to work together on that today, if you have time
14:08 kados I should have some time early this afternoon to work on that
14:08 paul kados : I've my own account for amazon now. Some weeks ago I told you that someone told me that Amazon contract has changed, and it may be a problem for us.
14:09 paul someone told me that their feature were only for commercial partners, that our libraries are not.
14:09 kados paul: yep, I'm aware of that, but I don't see a problem with it
14:09 paul I've read the contract, and couldn't see anything related to that
14:09 kados paul: I've reviewed the contract since the change
14:09 paul ok, so maybe the ppl who told me that was wrong.
14:09 kados I'll be back on in a few hours
14:10 paul 3PM here in france.
14:10 paul hope to see you later.
14:14 gmcharlt good morning #koha
14:17 paul hello gmcharlt
14:17 gmcharlt how's it going paul?
14:18 paul fine, thanks. Except we are a little bit overloaded by the number of commits done on git those days ;-)
14:18 gmcharlt :)
14:19 gmcharlt hope things will stabilize soon
14:19 gmcharlt will you be at the installer discussion later today on IRC?
14:19 paul I think yes.
14:20 paul mmm... what GMT is it ?
14:20 paul 17:00+0
14:20 paul will be here if it's a short meeting.
14:20 paul as it will be 17:00+1 for me
14:21 gmcharlt hopefully it will be short -- I'm mostly trying to get a sense of the bugs with the installer and any big changes people want
14:22 gmcharlt will subsequently move discussion of any major details to koha-devel
14:39 owen paul, I've got another question about I'm getting a different message in these two cases:
14:39 owen 1. Checking in something that was checked out, and belongs at another library
14:40 owen 2. Checking in something that was not checked out, and belongs to another library
14:40 owen Why are these two cases considered different?
14:40 paul (on phone)
14:41 owen One comes up via <!-- TMPL_IF Name="transfer" --> and the other <!-- TMPL_IF name="WrongTransfer" -->
14:50 paul owen: i'm back
14:51 paul to answer your question :  I don't know "WrongTransfer" was something from SAN-OP
14:51 paul maybe something silly
14:51 owen :)
14:55 owen I'm inclined to make the messages identical in each case, since I don't understand what is relevant about the difference.
16:18 fbcit g'morning koha
16:19 gmcharlt hi fbcit
16:20 fbcit owen: re: bug 1627... Koha
16:20 fbcit but maybe something is broke on my install...
16:53 slef The IRC server's clock seems to be wrong.  A bit under 10mins to go, right?
16:53 gmcharlt right
16:54 gmcharlt about 6, actually
16:56 slef gmcharlt: where are you publishing your patches?
16:56 gmcharlt slef: work in progress -- will be setting up a public git repo in the next day or two for my installer branch
16:57 slef gmcharlt: have you figured out what variable should be in the PL_FILES?
16:57 slef that's what's got me stumped and it's slow rebuilding the tarball over and over
16:57 slef (must buy more RAM)
16:58 gmcharlt slef: not yet, but will be looking at it by Friday
16:58 slef do you have fbcit's map_tree recurser?
16:58 slef if so, can I have a copy, please ;-)
16:59 gmcharlt slef: will send in a moment
16:59 slef 17033 things to do
17:00 gmcharlt slef: sent
17:01 gmcharlt and slef: *only* 17033 :)
17:01 gmcharlt OK, its 17:00 UTC, so I'll get started
17:01 thd slef: how long did it take for you to calculate that number?
17:01 slef gmcharlt: I know, I know, you're having to get up 3 hours before you go to bed
17:02 slef thd: it's quick - we have a ticket system, so we know just how screwed we are
17:02 gmcharlt yep :)
17:02 slef ok, anyone got an agenda (I really ought to have asked before - sorry)
17:02 gmcharlt I'll list the points I wanted to raise
17:03 gmcharlt 1. who's this gmcharlt after all -- kados asked me to start looking at the installer, with goal to get it stable and documented for upcoming 3.0 beta
17:03 gmcharlt whenever that beta is, precisely :)
17:03 gmcharlt 2. what are the points of pain in the installer
17:04 gmcharlt 3. any major issues, particuarly, that weren't raised on koha-devel in the past few days
17:04 gmcharlt 4. next steps
17:04 gmcharlt and that's it for my agenda points
17:04 gmcharlt anybody have other topics?
17:05 slef I think so
17:05 slef it's sort of mixed between your 4 and 1 - timeline
17:05 gmcharlt 5. timeline
17:05 slef best to cover it with 4, probably
17:05 gmcharlt 4.5 timeline :)
17:05 slef hi lajeepster are you here for the meeting
17:06 lajeepster no sorry..didn't know I landed in the middle of a meeting.  I was told to look here for posible answers to upgrading to the Beta
17:06 fbcit so... are we on point 2 yet? :)
17:07 slef lajeepster: ok, give us a few
17:07 lajeepster no prob
17:07 slef minutes
17:07 gmcharlt well, end of point 1 -- I will be setting up a public git repo for my installer branch
17:07 gmcharlt and will post to koha-devel when it's up
17:07 gmcharlt branch time will be this afternoon
17:07 slef gmcharlt: got homepage?
17:08 gmcharlt slef: also work in progress -- just get new web host :)
17:08 slef gmcharlt: ok, me too, got bored waiting, hence serene
17:08 gmcharlt I have patches from fbcit and rangi that I will be going over and adding to my tree
17:08 gmcharlt so that's it for 1 -- on to 2, points of pain
17:09 slef gmcharlt: what are you?  worker for liblime, but employee? owner?  from where? ;-)
17:09 gmcharlt slef: eep, sorry
17:09 gmcharlt my name is Galen Charlton, and I'm an employee for LibLime
17:09 slef ok, just wondered
17:10 gmcharlt started mid-October, and mostly been working on MARC stuff
17:10 gmcharlt slef: no problem -- sorry for missing the obvious :)
17:10 slef oh, you started on the easy jobs, huh? ;-)
17:10 gmcharlt well, continuation of what I've been doing -- prior to LibLime, worked for 9 years with other propietary ILS vendors
17:10 slef gmcharlt: you know who the rest of us are, right?  kados has slandered us all?
17:11 gmcharlt I wouldn't call it slander ;-)
17:11 gmcharlt but yeah, I know nicks and names
17:12 gmcharlt slef: and working on the installer and packaging issues, right?
17:12 thd slef: it is not slander if it is reasonably true :)
17:12 slef thd: are you
17:12 thd slef: yes
17:12 paul i'm around, as well, but mostly looking
17:13 slef gmcharlt: yes, mostly tidying stuff up for debian, hoping we can stop instructing unsuspecting users to break their stuff with CPAN shell
17:13 slef but I've been trying to install on MacOS X recently
17:13 slef paul/hdl are, right?
17:13 paul yep
17:13 hdl yes
17:14 slef thd: are you stress-testing the installer for us now?
17:14 slef ok, I'll stop being noisy... point 2
17:15 gmcharlt ok
17:15 gmcharlt so points of pain that I"m aware:
17:15 gmcharlt PL_FILES
17:15 gmcharlt what should correct destination locations be
17:15 gmcharlt separate config and data for Zebra
17:16 gmcharlt (discovered this morning) a bunch of C library dependencies that woudl be nice to catch
17:16 gmcharlt install documentation could stand to be expanded a bit
17:16 paul ++
17:17 gmcharlt and what packagers will need to make RPMs/DEB/etc. easily
17:17 gmcharlt anything else?
17:18 slef that's about the size of it... suspect the C library deps is bigger than our installer can do and will need leaving to the distribution packagers
17:18 thd slef: well I was stressing the installer until kados asked me to edit whatever frameworks I could gather.
17:19 gmcharlt slef: yeah, but at the least I think we should document any C library deps that we're aware of
17:19 slef as I don't think koha itself depends on C libraries, so we'd need to fix other people's CPAN modules, which is more awkward AIUI
17:19 gmcharlt slef: even though installer will not be able to automatically add them
17:19 gmcharlt slef: correct, all the C lib deps are from CPAN modules
17:20 slef do you want to walk through the other pain points, or just take the list as a summary?
17:21 thd slef: for Debian documentation specific documentation is pointing to your collection of Debian packages OK until they are in an apt based repository?
17:21 slef thd: fine by me... when we move it, I'll put up a redirect
17:21 gmcharlt slef: I'll mention a couple
17:21 slef C library deps - libyaz, or other stuff?
17:22 hdl libexpat0-devel
17:22 hdl libxml
17:22 hdl libxslt
17:22 gmcharlt slef: libxml, libxslt, libgdbm, a few others, plus -dev versions
17:22 gmcharlt -dev packages, rather
17:22 slef ah, those are recent additions by the RSS and/or Cardview stuff, aren't they?
17:22 hdl gmcharlt: yes
17:23 hdl no slef.
17:23 hdl it is required by xml parsing so for all marcdetail and other stuff.
17:23 gmcharlt slef: reqs for XML::Dumper, XML::LibXSLT
17:24 gmcharlt XML::Dumper requires expat and its headers from libexpat1-dev deb
17:24 gmcharlt XML::LibXML for libxml and libxslt
17:25 gmcharlt so as to not bog this down, I'll post what I have re C deps to koha-devel
17:25 gmcharlt and others can chime in
17:26 gmcharlt I'm working on a Debian Etch box, and won't be branching out to other platforms for my testing for at least a few more days
17:26 slef ok... I think some of these are bogus, if you use debian packages for XML::LibXML
17:26 gmcharlt so as far as the directory locations are concerned, I have a couple questions or issues
17:26 slef erm, XML::LibXSLT
17:26 gmcharlt right -- I was doing XML::LibXSLT from CPAN
17:27 slef IMO you should read the XML::LibXSLT docs to find out how to install that, not duplicate it in the Koha docs
17:28 slef at least, not in the package ones... maybe on as a "Koha from scratch" installation guide
17:28 slef where you do it all without distribution packages
17:28 fbcit even a reference to other docs would go a long way for those unfamiliar with debian...
17:28 gmcharlt references++
17:29 gmcharlt I assume that a complete Koha .deb would include all of the deps anyway?
17:29 gmcharlt or reference them, rather
17:29 slef no, it will name them in its control file
17:29 slef yes, reference them
17:30 gmcharlt my immediate focus is in fact on the install-from-scratch scenario
17:30 gmcharlt both out of sheer bloody-mindedness :)
17:30 gmcharlt and because it's what packagers and some devs will have to deal with
17:31 gmcharlt back to directory locations, I find the default structure a little confusing
17:32 fbcit ++
17:32 gmcharlt e.g., why are the web page templates off of a Perl module directory
17:33 gmcharlt and I'm inclined to think (but I could be wrong) that the Koha C4 modules
17:33 slef probably because general policies were set and that's where they ended up so far
17:33 gmcharlt since they're an integral part of the app
17:33 slef some of the specifics are undoubtedly wrong
17:33 gmcharlt perhaps should have a separate install point
17:33 gmcharlt separate from ordinary CPAN modules, that is
17:34 gmcharlt in particular, thiking of a situation where a library or host needs to run multiple versions of Koha for a while, like during an upgrade
17:34 thd gmcharlt: until they are in CPAN :)
17:34 slef then they can override PREFIX or INST_* or whatever
17:35 gmcharlt thd: yeah, good point
17:35 slef I don't like having C4 in a special location because it confuses new sysadmins that they have to set -I and/or PERL5LIB
17:35 slef but others have different opinions, so can set the make variables as they like
17:35 slef I think the default should be to have C4 available to perl by default
17:36 fbcit IMO they probably should go where ever a CPAN install will put them eventually... If that is the direction they are moving.
17:36 slef I think some distribution policies may also require them to be in the perl modules tree
17:37 gmcharlt OK, I'll buy that
17:37 slef sysadmins will still be able to run multiple versions like of any other package
17:37 thd needing to set environment variables can be a nuisance
17:37 slef or install from scratch if they want total control
17:38 gmcharlt slef: yep.  I do think multi-version support is important, particularly for common distros like Debian
17:38 slef template locations may be wrong, yep... zebra locations almost certainly are, as I feel that's pretty undocumented
17:39 thd How would it be possible to run Koha 2.2 and 3.0 on the same system at the same time?
17:39 gmcharlt I'm more conerned about the template locations -- perhaps create a separate makefile directory var for them, but also change default to get them out of the Perl module tree
17:40 gmcharlt thd: asuming two databases and proper jugging of the Perl module search path, should be possible in principle
17:40 gmcharlt and is something that I would like to ensure is possible
17:40 gmcharlt s/jugging/juggling/
17:40 slef thd: you can install packages under different roots and mess about with filesystem links
17:40 thd What about conflicting C4?
17:41 gmcharlt that's where we'd have to be careful
17:41 slef They wouldn't, they'd be under different roots...
17:42 slef so one would be /usr/lib/perl... and the other would be /opt/old-koha/lib/perl or something
17:42 fbcit PREFIX or whatever.... would differ.
17:42 gmcharlt slef: but if only one perl is used, @INC would have to be adjusted somehow
17:42 gmcharlt or PERL5LIB set
17:42 slef aye... usual sysadmin trickery
17:43 gmcharlt yep -- but will need thorough doc -- not all Koha users will be Perl hackers
17:44 thd Would that not require code changes to avoid calling the wrong C4 function with the same name?
17:44 slef No, will need references.  We're not here to teach people advanced sysadmin skills and shouldn't get distracted into it.
17:44 gmcharlt thd: I think a version check should do it
17:45 thd gmcharlt: Is a version check present in the code now for calling C4?
17:45 gmcharlt slef: of course, that is the usual user/dev split :)
17:46 gmcharlt thd: not consistently, but could be added easily
17:46 gmcharlt for Koha 2, sysadmin will have to verify that @INC is correct
17:47 gmcharlt since adding version check to Koha 2 codebase will not necessarily help anybody running it now
17:47 slef I don't like the version check idea... if people want to try running the right koha with the wrong C4, that's up to them.  Best we can do is put big "WARNING" labels on the "Running two koha versions side-by-side" instructions
17:49 slef although, actually, we can put a version check by each use statement IIRC
17:49 gmcharlt slef: we can't absolutely prevent using the wrong C4, but I do think adding a version check would make easier to avoid data loss
17:49 gmcharlt slef: yes, adding the version to the 'use C4::' was waht I had in mind
17:49 slef C4::Context now has $C4::Context::VERSION
17:50 gmcharlt or have each submodule of C4 compare its version string against C4::Context::VERSION and abort a 'use' if there is a serious mismatch
17:50 gmcharlt or rather, compare with DB version in database
17:50 slef I thought you meant the second, which I think seems evil, bad and wrong
17:51 slef adding version to each use C4::Context should be fine and stop anything running with the wrong C4
17:51 gmcharlt slef: yeah, that would be good enough to prevent CGI/C4 mismatches
17:53 thd I can certainly see this as an issue for those running Koha 2 now who want to test thoroughly before switching to version 3 and do not want to be forced to set up an extra system.
17:53 slef it's under the "use" heading in "man perlfunc" after "If the VERSION argument is present between Module and LIST" if anyone wants to read more
17:55 gmcharlt if we introduce this, I suggest keeping the C4 version number simple -- only two levels, e.g., 3.0, 3.1, 3.2, etc.
17:55 slef it's already four
17:55 slef it's the koha version number
17:55 slef something like at the moment
17:55 gmcharlt slef: I'm distinguishing between the Koha version and the C4 (aka API) version
17:55 slef we don't have to use all of that in the use statement
17:55 lajeepster what is C4 (sorry - newbie)
17:56 slef gmcharlt: perl won't
17:56 slef lajeepster: the bits that connect koha's web front end to its databases, essentially
17:56 lajeepster thanks
17:57 slef lajeepster: I can't remember why it's called C4
17:57 lajeepster LOL
17:57 thd lajeepster: C4 has Koha specific Perl dependencies
17:58 slef So shall we version tag each use C4::Context?
17:58 slef Agreed?
17:58 gmcharlt slef: I agree
17:58 thd chris would know but I think that it is an old standard convention for private modules or something like that
17:59 gmcharlt slef: I will do some testing and propose to koha-devel
17:59 slef thd: if so, maybe we should look to rename it to Koha:: over time (ow!)
17:59 gmcharlt certainly if Koha gets added to CPAN, having Koha in the module names would be nice :)
17:59 slef gmcharlt: ok... want to cover any more pain point?
17:59 thd slef: I have wondered if it would lead to problems by keeping it as C4
18:00 thd I am interested in knowing what people thought of separating Zebra configuration info from data records.  No one commented on that part of my koha-devel list message.
18:00 gmcharlt slef: I'll also post to koha-devel about providing option to put web templates in a different dir
18:00 slef thd: it's a good idea - I still don't grok the zebra bits and just copied them from an old kados tarball
18:00 gmcharlt thd: I agree in principle
18:00 owen Koha lore says it was named C4 because it was so unstable
18:01 slef owen: !
18:01 fbcit hehe
18:01 lajeepster an even better reason to rename it
18:01 gmcharlt thd:  just will need to see how big a change is required to implement
18:02 fbcit zebra also presents a lang issue as well, but I think galen has fixed the pathing for that?
18:02 gmcharlt fbcit: working on it
18:03 thd gmcharlt: I already separated the Zebra parts on my system but have not tested yet
18:03 gmcharlt ok -- if you need to patch any of the zeb utility perls, please post them patches
18:04 slef lajeepster: I don't know. I like the idea of an explosive library system.  Then again, all of my local systems are named after bombs, so maybe I'm atypical.
18:04 gmcharlt Library 2.0 depends on C4 :)
18:04 slef If someone documents and sorts out the zebra bit, I'll buy them a beer next we meet
18:05 gmcharlt ok, since we're over an hour, shall we briefly touch on the timeline?
18:05 slef fine by me
18:05 slef (aside: report on trying to debianise the current koha:
18:05 slef make: *** [build-stamp] Killed
18:06 slef so it's not ready for debbing yet and the error is a little cryptic.)
18:06 gmcharlt alas :(
18:07 gmcharlt anyway, I'm figuring to hopefully spend about 1.5 weeks on installer improvements
18:07 gmcharlt with hopefully the major imrovements in palce and ready for review by Friday next
18:08 gmcharlt and stabilized enough for packagers to have something to work with that's less of a moving target
18:09 gmcharlt I'd also like to get make test doing something a little more useful than dummy.t
18:09 gmcharlt although clearly creating a full testsuite is a longer-term project :)
18:09 slef ok, I'm likely to keep banging my head against PL_FILES and MacOS X portability, as well as my just-created "debianised" branch
18:09 gmcharlt I'll set up my public git tree for the installer by tomorrow
18:10 gmcharlt anything else before we 'adjourn'?
18:10 slef thd: when do you think you can post your zebra tests?
18:11 thd slef: when I have time to test them which may not happen :(
18:11 slef ok, no matter
18:11 thd slef: I have to scramble at the moment to be certain of paying my expenses
18:12 gmcharlt thd: if you have anything you can quickly hand over, I'd be happy to test
18:12 gmcharlt if not, no worries
18:13 gmcharlt OK, thanks, folks
18:14 thd paul: did you see my question to you about items.wthdrawn ?
18:15 slef gmcharlt: thanks to you too
18:16 gmcharlt slef: good to virtually meet you
18:17 slef gmcharlt: I'm more often than IRC these days
18:19 lajeepster let me know when I'm no longer interrupting
18:19 gmcharlt slef: thanks, I'll keep that in mind
18:19 gmcharlt lajeepster: sorry, please go ahead
18:19 jamesarnall hi
18:20 lajeepster Jamesarnall and I work for the LA County Law Library and I am very interested in Koha...we are leaving Voyager
18:21 lajeepster We are migrating to a propriatary system (not so innovative) and have a week to cancel so we're scrambling to install a beta 3 here for review but...
18:21 lajeepster James is a developer...any advice?
18:22 lajeepster we were going to upgrade the VM appliance of Koha 2.2.9 head still hurts from a late night
18:22 thd lajeepster: it is not quite ready for installation unless you fix the installation issues yourself and then there are still bugs
18:23 lajeepster Being the largest public law collection second only to the library of congress, I would think being on Koha could be a huge leap for all of us
18:24 thd lajeepster jamesarnall: ping ryan
18:24 thd lajeepster jamesarnall: perhaps he can show you a running test system
18:25 jamesarnall thanks thd -- 1 sec
18:25 lajeepster Josh showed me some screens.  We need a test server I can show some screens/functionality to our head librarians
18:26 lajeepster any prefered OS for a fresh install?
18:27 atz debian
18:27 atz (etch)
18:28 kados lajeepster: hiya lajeepster
18:28 kados lajeepster: kados == Josh
18:28 lajeepster hey Kados
18:28 lajeepster ah..
18:28 jamesarnall are the installation issues primarily related to making sure all dependencies are installed?
18:30 atz loading MARC data is always library-specific
18:31 atz there are a variety of settings and preferences that you will probably want to modify for your system
18:32 atz depends if you are calling this kind of stuff "installation" or "integration"
18:32 gmcharlt jamesarnall: yep, dependencies, some tweaking of default directories, and squashing a few installer bugs
18:32 atz gmcharlt happens to be expert on migrating from Voyager  :)
18:33 jamesarnall of course.  "installation" is the appropriate term -- we're loading a fresh installation, but on ubuntu.
18:33 lajeepster less concerned about data loads..mainly looking for a blank system to review with minimal data
18:34 lajeepster an expert huh... that's always a plus ;)
18:35 fbcit gmcharlt: one addition to the installer discussion: a --dev install option to build symlinks, etc. for a dev environment would be nice also.
18:35 gmcharlt lajeepster: I spent a few years being an expert on migrating *to* Voyager :)
18:35 gmcharlt fbcit: gotcha
18:36 jamesarnall realistically, would you think that starting over in deb/etch would take less time than sorting out ubuntu quirks?  thanks very much for your help, BTW.
18:36 kados jamesarnall: yes, probably
18:36 slef I think that needs to be done by something else... or could we subvert MakeMaker's copy functions somehow... hrm
18:36 lajeepster I like voyager...too bad our executive director doesn't.
18:37 atz jamesarnall: depends on your tolerance for navigating the differences between linux distros
18:38 atz ubuntu is workable
18:38 fbcit slef: apparently MM does not handle symlinks.
18:38 atz for a base installation, the snags are usually yaz and zebra
18:39 atz strictly speaking, you can demo w/o zebra (indexing), so I would say try to get yaz installed on ubuntu
18:40 jamesarnall atz: yeah, zebra is where i just spun out.  i'll try ignoring it and focusing on yaz.
18:40 slef fbcit: search man ExtUtils::MakeMaker for CP to see what I'm thinking
18:40 slef fbcit: setting DIST_CP to ln
18:40 slef fbcit: in other words, this may already be possible, if not simple - we just don't know how ;-)
18:41 slef actually, DIST_CP is irrelevant
18:41 slef I believe there's a similar one for install called CP, but I can't find the documentation for it
18:42 slef let alone how to set it :)
18:42 slef biab
18:47 fbcit kados: hi
18:47 kados hiya fbcit
18:48 fbcit after a rebase today, some things look messed up in the intranet and opac interfaces...
18:48 fbcit The link to set the library has disappeared...
18:48 kados fbcit: hmmm, which things?
18:48 kados fbcit: yea, that was a bugfix
18:48 kados fbcit: turn off IndependantBranches
18:49 fbcit and in opac-main, the book bag icon is rendered over top of the log off button...
18:49 kados yep, and that's a known bug, owen's working on the OPAC this week
18:49 fbcit k
18:49 fbcit just checking... :-)
18:49 kados :-)
18:50 fbcit kados: where is IndependantBranches set?
18:50 kados fbcit: it's in systempreferences
18:50 kados fbcit: yes, it's a Frenchism :-)
18:51 kados we've got a few of those :-)
18:51 kados Letters -> Notices :-)
19:04 owen fbcit, you've got problems with the book bag icon?
19:05 fbcit owen:right
19:06 fbcit it renders over top of the logoff button
19:06 fbcit since rebase time this morning...
19:12 owen fbcit and kados: do you have "LibraryName" defined in system preferences?
19:13 fbcit its not defined in mine...
19:13 fbcit should it have a default?
19:13 kados owen: yes
19:15 fbcit kados: is it possible to define multiple login accounts for the intranet interface? (ie. librarian-a, librarian-b, etc.)
19:16 kados fbcit: oh, yes
19:17 kados fbcit: any user account can be given permissions to various modules
19:17 kados fbcit: check the 'More' -> 'Change Permissions' option on the user account
19:18 fbcit kados: user==patron?
19:19 kados fbyup
19:19 kados fbcit: yep
19:19 owen LibraryName is appropriate for systems with a single branch, or where branches are not independent... But what if each branch wants to have their own name appear there?  Does the OPAC incorporate any of the IndependentBranches stuff?
19:19 kados owen: not yet, but it will in 3.2
19:21 owen So for 3.0, LibraryName could either have a default value, or the template could fill it in if LibraryName isn't populated
19:21 kados sure
19:21 kados good idea
19:21 fbcit next question kados...
19:21 fbcit can I restrict which fields in a MARC record a particular account can update/modify?
19:21 fbcit yet
19:22 kados fbcit: no, but we have a library who's paying for that already
19:22 kados fbcit: not sure if it'll be in 3.2 or 3.4, but it's coming
19:22 fbcit eta?
19:22 owen That's really interesting, I hadn't thought of that
19:22 kados project hasn't started yet
19:22 kados fbcit: next year :-)
19:23 fbcit on the audiolibrary we talked about the other day, I need to have some users who edit some fields but not others...
19:23 kados right
19:23 fbcit sounds great.
19:23 fbcit owen: what shall I put in LibraryName?
19:24 fbcit this is just a demo setup...
19:24 owen Whatever. The name of your library :)
19:24 fbcit :-O
19:29 fbcit owen: that fixed the bookbag button on my installation....
19:30 owen Good. I'm modifying the templates so that LibraryName isn't required
19:31 fbcit do you think the session issue is an problem with my installation?
19:32 owen No idea. All I can say is that it works okay for me. Tested with Firefox on OSX and WinXP
19:32 kados yea, ditto
19:38 fbcit kados: I notice that in the address fields of the new patron form there is not a field for "State"?
19:39 kados fbcit: yea, that's also on the list
19:39 kados ryan's handling that one
19:40 kados something we lost between 2.2, dev_week and 3.0 ... another Frenchism :-)
19:40 fbcit k
19:42 fbcit hehe
19:43 fbcit owen: I discovered the session issue problem...
19:43 fbcit try this:
19:44 fbcit 1. Log into intranet interface as your mysql koha user...
19:44 fbcit 2. in another tab, navigate to opac-main
19:44 fbcit on my system I am logged into opac automatically as kohaadmin...
19:44 fbcit whereas
19:45 fbcit if I log into intranet as a superlibrarian
19:45 fbcit then I can log into opac as another user just fine...
19:46 fbcit it appears that koha does not realize that the mysql user is not "really" a koha user...
19:46 owen I'm still not getting it
19:48 fbcit well, at any rate, the issue clears up when I do not use the kohaadmin (mysql) account...
19:48 fbcit sorry for the trouble... :-\
19:50 fbcit heh
20:05 slef owen: do you really want to know?
20:06 owen Yeah
20:06 slef owen: you know a stack of plates in a restaurant?
20:06 owen Sure
20:07 slef owen: spring-loaded hole thingy... well, the stack is a memory area organised in a similar way, where you usually put stuff on the top and take it off
20:07 slef the top
20:07 slef a stack overflow means you're trying to put more stuff on when it's full
20:07 masonj morning #koha
20:07 slef a stack underflow means you're trying to take stuff off when it's empty
20:07 slef and your editor is having one because it's rubbish and not Emacs ;-)
20:08 slef evening masonj
20:08 owen :D I knew it would come down to that!
20:08 owen Thanks slef
20:08 gmcharlt slef: and what's wrong with vi? ;-)
20:08 slef gmcharlt: I can't tell you because I'm in the wrong mode. ;-)
20:08 gmcharlt lol
20:09 masonj that was sweet
20:09 slef masonj: ?
20:09 masonj your mode  joke...
20:10 masonj iyour mode  jAoxke...
20:10 slef oh, ok, I thought you were after the "non-sequitur of the day" award
20:10 slef gmcharlt: I can use vi, but tbh, if I'm on that restricted a system, ed is a better bet
20:11 fbcit vi's wonderful... :-)
20:11 gmcharlt Emacs: the swiss army chainsaw of software
20:11 slef fbcit: Emacs is a virtual machine runtime for God's Own Language which just happens to edit text.
20:12 slef seriously... search for eternalflame.mp3 (God wrote in Lisp)
20:14 masonj haaaaay, an emacs port of koha.....  !
20:14 slef masonj: just need to get rid of the javascript, then we could use emacs-w3 as the user interface...
20:15 atz gah.... i can only imagine the difficulty of rewriting everything in lisp
20:16 slef I think someone once wrote a python interpreter in lisp and there's at least one lisp interpreter in perl... fear the turing-completeness
20:24 gmcharlt slef:
20:33 slef heh
01:13 qiqo hi guys!
01:13 qiqo hows every one
01:13 qiqo kados you there?
01:15 masonj hiya qiqo
01:16 qiqo hi mason
01:16 qiqo how are you
01:16 masonj pretty busy today
01:16 qiqo ohh something new with koha?
01:16 masonj hows thing with you?
01:16 qiqo im fine, im working for dell now
01:17 masonj ooooh, sweet
01:17 qiqo just need to connect my former professor here
01:17 qiqo because the whole national library is shifting to koha
01:17 qiqo im just walking them through the support available
01:18 masonj woah, that huge
01:18 qiqo yeah,, they are on testing now
01:18 masonj qiqo++
01:18 qiqo told paul and kados about this
01:20 masonj hmm, kados looks to be offline at the moment
01:21 qiqo wait.. my prof is asking where to download the source of koha
01:22 chris if you want to get a release then if you want to get the latest version from git then
01:22 masonj is a good start
01:23 masonj[…]lopment:git_usage
01:23 chris mason beat me :)
01:23 qiqo yeah, so the release has the source codE?
01:23 qiqo can we check the cvs?
01:23 masonj yep
01:23 masonj but we have moved from cvs to git
01:23 chris we dont use cvs for version 3 onwards (ie all the work we are doing now is in git)
01:26 qiqo ohh ok
01:28 chris (what the linux kernel uses)
01:28 chris its a distributed versioning system, vs a centralised one like cvs
01:28 qiqo anyway they are having problems showing the cutter number in the opac
01:32 chris they will probably want to run 3.0 when it is released (first prerelease very soon) its significantly better than the 2.2.x series
01:33 qiqo wow really?
01:33 qiqo so it's really soon?
01:34 chris a prerelease yes, then once we fix the bugs found in that, probably a couple more, then a full release
01:34 chris you can get it running from git now, if you have time and patience :)
01:35 qiqo cooom
01:35 qiqo cool
01:35 qiqo haha
01:44 qiqo il try that on my own library
02:02 lajeepster hello all
02:02 chris hi lajeepster
02:03 lajeepster Can someone tell me what version of Debian is best to install under?
02:03 chris i use etch
02:03 chris (stable)
02:03 lajeepster hmm
02:04 lajeepster looking for an iso of etch on but dont see it...let me look again
02:04 lajeepster and thanks for the response :)
02:04 chris etch=stable
02:05 chris so the latest stable release (4.0) is etch
02:05 chris 3.1 was sarge
02:05 lajeepster great!  Thanks so much
02:05 chris no worries
02:06 lajeepster going to attempt a fresh install with no docs tonight...wish me luck
02:06 chris :)
02:07 lajeepster thank god for coffee & koha

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