IRC log for #koha, 2007-10-07

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
13:24 kados g'morning #koha
15:27 thd kados: what should the plugin name be for 952 $f Coded location qualifier
15:28 thd ?
15:28 kados hmmm
15:28 kados locationqualifier.pl
15:29 thd kados: should that be marc21_locationqualifier.pl?
15:29 kados sure
15:30 kados wasn't there a subfield reserved for linking one item to another?
15:30 kados (I'm talking abotu one 852 to another 852)
15:31 thd kados: If anyone were ever using it the OPAC should use the values in 952 $f to generate a plain language statement interpreting the code for record display
15:31 thd kados: why would you join 2 852s?
15:32 kados I don't know, I just thought I remembered that
15:32 thd or do you mean join 852, 86X, and 876-8?
15:34 kados ahh, yes, nevermine
15:34 kados we'll do that in 3.2
15:34 thd kados: for joining multiple holdings fields for the same item copy number $t is usually used
15:35 thd kados: $6 or $8 are used in more complex serials cases
15:35 kados thd: here's our TODO list:
15:35 kados THD: add authorized value DPT to items.location
15:35 kados THD: add plugin bookseller.pl to items.booksellerid
15:35 kados THD: fix items.dateassessioned (put dateaccessioned.pl in plugin column)
15:35 kados THD: add marc21_locationqualifier.pl to 952 $f
15:35 kados THD: add classcodes.pl to 952 $2
15:35 kados JMF: create marc21_locationqualifier.pl plugin
15:35 kados JMF: create classcodes.pl plugin
15:35 kados JMF: create authorized value for STACK
15:35 kados JMF: fix wthdrawn in koha db and code
15:37 thd kados: should that not be CLASSCODES authorised value or can it not be because the values could then only be a code without explanation?
15:38 kados lets do it as an authorized value for now
15:38 kados you're right
15:38 thd kados: can they have explanation?
15:38 thd oh I forgot they are supposed to show the edition so they need a plugin
15:39 kados hmmm
15:39 kados that is a bit too complicated
15:39 thd ie edition of the classification
15:39 kados yea, but how would I know what editions exist?
15:39 thd ask me
15:40 thd DDC is currently at 22
15:40 thd 21 is still in common use
15:41 kados the list os quite long
15:41 kados we won't have time to check all of them
15:41 kados I think we'll have to be satisfied with an authorized value for now
15:42 thd kados, but edition is more important than that list of classifications for your customers
15:42 kados edition of the classification?
15:42 thd yes
15:42 kados so it would be ddc22 ?
15:43 thd format is a little different
15:43 kados what ist he format?
15:45 kados msdocs/1975
15:45 kados The code may be followed by the edition or date of publication of the source work. The code is separated from the edition or date by a slash (/). Omission of the year or edition will imply that the assigning institution used the most recent edition of the source work available.
15:46 kados thd: fine, we can do it as a plugin
15:48 thd kados: actually edition might only be used for $2 in 0XX where it is called edition because the field usually indicates classification already but that sees a little inconsistent
15:48 kados if we do it as a plugin, it's easy to manupulate
15:48 kados so lets do it as a plugin
15:49 kados thd: here's our TODO:
15:49 kados THD: add authorized value DPT to items.location
15:49 kados THD: add plugin bookseller.pl to items.booksellerid
15:49 kados THD: fix items.dateassessioned (put dateaccessioned.pl in plugin column)
15:49 kados THD: add marc21_locationqualifier.pl to 952 $f
15:49 kados THD: add marc21_classcodes.pl authorized value to 952 $2
15:49 kados THD: describe lcc vs ddc behavior
15:49 thd kados: I believe that I have seen edition included as 852 $2 ddc; 21
15:50 kados *noted*
15:52 kados thd: 'Call Number Prefix' . 'Classification Part' . 'Call Number Suffix' . 'Copy Number'
15:52 kados thd: is that the appropriate concatenation of those elements?
15:52 thd kados: some documentation can only be found in circulars from LC where questions about ambiguities or inconsistencies in the standard documentation are answered
15:53 thd you are missing item part after the classification part
15:53 kados ahh, right
15:53 kados and that works the same way in lcc and ddc?
15:54 thd kados: I already wrote a Perl script for that which I used for Afognak
15:54 kados ok, can you send it to me?
15:54 thd yes
15:54 kados thx
16:01 kados thd: I'm adding items.damaged
16:01 kados thd: so please add that to your list :-)
16:02 thd kados: I was going to put that in $f and remove location qualifier :)
16:03 thd kados: I will remove call number suffix instead
16:04 kados akk
16:04 kados why?
16:04 kados I thought we needed call number suffix
16:04 thd kados: only to the extent we need everything
16:05 thd kados: I have hardly ever noticed call number suffix used in real records
16:08 kados it seems like $8 would be less frequently used in koha
16:08 thd kados: I have never noticed coded location qualifier but that seems much more useful to know how many recent years/months/issues of a serial are kept at the serials desk
16:08 thd kados: yes $8 would never be used in Koha except for preserving previous use
16:08 kados or $3
16:09 kados I think we should remove those from 3.0
16:09 kados simply because they aren't used in koha
16:09 thd kados $3 is important
16:09 kados but we don't use it
16:09 kados it will be in 3.2
16:09 thd and would be used by many people
16:09 kados but doesn't belong in 3.0 I don't think
16:09 kados Materials Specified refers to what?
16:10 thd Journal of blabla 852 $3 v. 3-4 $call number $p barcode
16:11 thd maybe I should put the parenthesis explanation back
16:12 kados Materials specified should be linked to items.multivolumenumber
16:13 thd $3 Materials designated (bound volume or other part)
16:13 kados which we removed
16:13 thd $3 Materials specified (bound volume or other part)
16:13 kados we don't handle multi-part items right now
16:13 kados we will in 3.2
16:13 kados so i think we shoudl remove this from 3.0
16:14 kados anyway, we're getting distrated :-)
16:14 thd kados: this is not a record relationship issue
16:14 thd kados: understanding this is important
16:14 kados ok
16:14 thd kados: everyone binds serials
16:14 kados so $3 is used to store a human-only textual string
16:14 thd almost everyone
16:15 thd yes
16:15 kados ok, that's fine
16:15 thd so the patron/librarian knows what that is for
16:16 kados ok, so we'll leave that in, and I've got a note to look into that when we do binding for serials
16:16 kados so the issue is, where do we put items.damaged
16:16 thd kados: it could also be used to designate a CD separately from the book with an empty back pocket all for the CD but all in the same record
16:16 kados sure
16:17 thd $m Call number suffix will go
16:17 kados ok
16:18 thd kados: If you have a customer using call number suffixes then it is probably infrequently and they might temporarily be stored with some delimiter in $z public note
16:19 kados sure
16:19 kados we can alwasy customize it for customers
16:19 kados it's the rest of the community I worry about for 3.0 :-)
16:19 thd :-)
16:19 thd what rest?
16:20 thd developers ? :)
16:20 kados no, I mean the libraries running koha without support
16:20 kados there are far more of those than supported ones
16:20 kados by a factor of 5-6 at least
16:20 kados anyway ...
16:20 thd oh, well they have the mailing list and very friendly people to help
16:21 kados THD: add authorized value DPT to items.location
16:21 kados THD: add plugin bookseller.pl to items.booksellerid
16:21 kados THD: fix items.dateassessioned (put dateaccessioned.pl in plugin column)
16:21 kados THD: add marc21_locationqualifier.pl to 952 $f
16:21 kados THD: add marc21_classcodes.pl authorized value to 952 $2
16:21 kados THD: describe lcc vs ddc behavior
16:21 kados THD: add mapping for items.damaged
17:19 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: eloise212 n=aimecs@cpe-74-79-243-242.twcny.res.rr.com
17:40 ryan thd: and kados:  how about changing DPT to SHELF_LOC ?
17:41 ryan DPT isn't hardcoded anymore...
17:41 thd kados: that makes sense to me
17:42 thd kados: do you concur with ryan's suggestion?
17:43 thd kados: I will presume that you concur in the absence of signification otherwise :0
17:48 kados hi thd
17:48 kados ryan: yea, that' fine
17:49 kados ryan: just that the departments feature in Koha exists
17:49 kados that's where the list comes from
17:50 kados actually, departments seems to be missing now from 3.0
17:50 kados where did it go?
17:51 kados thd: with SHELF_LOC stored in items.location, what is the purpose of items.stack?
17:52 kados nevermind, it's the coded qualification of that
17:52 thd what is the purpose of SHELF_LOC ?
17:52 thd :0
17:52 kados i assumed some libraries use Shelving location
17:52 kados like for instance, 'Circ Desk'
17:53 kados or ... 'New Books Shelf'
17:54 thd kados: I believe that shelf.location was already in use by Chis
17:54 kados thd: did you remember that 'Call number' should be 'Koha Call number'?
17:54 thd kados: yes
17:54 kados thd: so are the frameworks finished?
17:54 kados :-)
17:55 thd kados: or maybe Koha full call number would be better
17:55 kados or do you want to explain the lcc and ddc stuff beforehand so I can decide what plugins I'll need?
17:55 thd kados: I was writing an explanation of that in a comment at the beginning of a file with extracted code
17:56 kados excellent
18:13 kados thd: there are still some missing authorized values
18:13 kados thd: items.itemlost => ITEMLOST
18:14 kados items.damaged => DAMAGED
18:14 kados items.notforloan => NOTFORLOAN
18:15 thd kados: when I wrote those originally no one ever told me that there was a values table to report
18:15 thd :)
18:15 kados :-)
18:16 kados that's my fault
18:18 kados thd: can we change the nomenclature a bit?
18:18 kados instead of Item Status (withdrawn)
18:18 kados Withdrawn Status
18:19 kados instead of Item status (lost)
18:19 kados Lost Status
18:19 kados also, please label damaged as Damaged Status
18:19 thd kados: that is not MARC 21 :)
18:19 thd ok
18:20 kados marc21 doesn't define more than one type of Item status :-)
18:20 kados also, where is items.notforloan?
18:21 thd kados: in MARC 21 different status types are stored in a repeatable status field
18:21 thd kados: that would be in restricted
18:22 kados it seems we have both items.restricted and items.notforloan
18:22 kados hmmm
18:23 thd ('952', 'y', 'Use restrictions (not for loan)'
18:23 kados ahh, ok
18:23 kados it doesn't seem to be mapped to items.notforloan, is it?
18:24 thd ('952', 'y', 'Use restrictions (not for loan)', 'Use restrictions (not for loan)', 0, 0, 'items.notforloan', 10, '', '', '', 0, 0, '', '', '', NULL),
18:24 kados ok
18:24 kados thanks
18:25 thd -- ('95k', 'y', 'Use restrictions (not for loan) (similar to 506 $a, 876-8 $h)'
18:25 kados no!
18:25 kados :-)
18:25 thd that was the explanation from the comment :)
18:26 kados it seems items.restricted is used, but I don't see how to set it anywhere
18:26 thd kados: is that not set by a script?
18:27 thd s/a script/in the code/
18:27 kados it's not set anywhere
18:27 kados but its used in circulation
18:27 thd kados: I assumed that something triggers the setting
18:28 kados no, I don't see any triggers
18:28 kados what would it be good for?
18:29 thd to keep the careless or dishonest from handling the especially fragile or valuable material without close supervision
18:29 kados how does it differ from notforloan?
18:29 thd kados: well they are not equal
18:30 kados why?
18:30 thd kados: reference material might be on an open shelf but not for loan
18:30 kados restricted would be 'OK for adults', 'not OK for children' ?
18:30 kados (or something like that)
18:31 thd kados: restricted material might be in a special climate controlled vault with armed guards :)
18:31 kados hehe
18:31 kados ok, I get it now
18:31 kados give items.restricted an authorized value of RESTRICTED
18:31 kados please
18:31 kados :-)
18:31 thd OK
18:45 kados russel: you really awake?
19:00 paul_away hello new zealand !
19:00 paul chris around ?
19:00 chris hi paul
19:01 paul I suppose you're happy of the result of australia / england ;)
19:01 chris a little
19:02 paul I would never have bet 0.01€ for this result !
19:02 chris me either
19:02 russel hiya paul
19:02 paul hiya russel
19:02 paul strange to see all blacks in grey...
19:03 paul my 1st son Simon says hello to you
19:03 chris hehe
19:03 chris hello simon
19:03 paul (simon : hello chris)
19:04 kados hi paul
19:04 kados hi simon :-)
19:04 paul hi kados
19:04 paul you"re looking for the match too ?
19:04 kados hehe, no
19:06 chris ouch
19:06 chris head in the wrong place in that tackle
19:06 paul yep. KO...
19:06 paul what time is it for you exactly ?
19:06 chris 8.06am
19:09 paul ouch... seems really KO.
19:09 chris yeah
19:11 paul not that far...
19:11 chris nope was worth a shot
19:12 paul is it rugby or soccer ??
19:12 chris hehe finals rugby always lots of kicking
19:13 chris everyone to nervous
19:17 chris hmmm
19:17 paul should do 3-0
19:17 chris the ref likes to blow the whistle for rucks
19:18 paul (simon says : it's not all blacks, but all greys !)
19:19 chris hehe
19:19 paul (simon laught...)
19:19 paul in french we call that a "cocotte"
19:20 paul when 4-X players advances hidding the ball
19:20 paul n the middle of them
19:20 chris ahh
19:21 paul houhou...
19:21 chris i think he was out
19:21 paul yep
19:21 paul yes...
19:21 paul in french "ouf" !
19:23 paul 10-0 !
19:23 chris macalister is playing the best ive seen him
19:24 paul could have choosen another day !!!!!
19:24 chris hehe
19:25 paul the score reflect the play for instance
19:27 chris hmm this stadium has always had bad grass
19:27 paul the TV says one of the all blacks will play in england next year, and thus never more play for all blacks ?
19:28 paul when you leave NZ you can't be all black anymore ???
19:28 chris yeah
19:28 paul wow, very strict !
19:28 chris you can come back and play in z
19:28 chris nz
19:28 chris and then become one again
19:28 paul ah, ok
19:28 chris like troy flavel did
19:29 chris so not quite never again, but never if you are old :-)
19:29 paul hi hdl ?
19:30 hdl salut paul.
19:30 hdl En train de regarder le match ?
19:30 paul looking for the match ?
19:30 paul yep, of course.
19:30 paul and chatting with chris ;)
19:30 chris hehe
19:30 paul sweet dreams
19:30 hdl I hope the best will win.
19:31 hdl seen 5 minutes.
19:31 hdl And it seems NZ are really having the hand over the match.
19:31 hdl already
19:31 paul yep. but in 99 the match started like that as well
19:31 hdl So Happy chat.
19:32 paul sweet dreams to you
19:33 paul the kiwi was out with the ball. should have be for us.
19:33 chris the officials arent doing so well so far
19:36 paul the ref is right for this
19:36 paul wow... 43m...
19:36 chris right in front
19:38 chris hmm i think maybe michalak for the 2nd half
19:40 paul yellow card ?
19:41 paul could have had one...
19:42 paul 3 "touches" missed...
19:42 chris this is the danger time, just before halftime
19:43 paul oh no !
19:44 kados what happened?
19:44 chris maybe too nervous?
19:44 paul a french missed a penalty, it's the 2nd one that was not that hard
19:44 paul (although not as easy as possible)
19:46 chris crazy  kick
19:46 paul kados : score is 13-0, and a succesful penalty is 3 points
19:46 chris the all blacks have gone mental
19:46 paul crazy kick ! nice word !
19:46 paul yep.
19:47 paul a new one (crazy kick)...
19:48 chris hehe
19:48 paul then half time
19:48 chris yep
19:48 paul 47m !
19:48 russel but it is straight
19:48 paul 13-3
19:48 chris maybe he can kick only hard ones
19:48 russel :-)
19:48 paul lol
19:48 russel man it is a bit stop start
19:48 russel too much kicking
19:49 chris yeah
19:49 paul see you back soon, I go to cook the bread for tomorrow morning
19:49 chris yum
19:50 chris made me hungry for breakfast :)
19:55 paul there is an ad with zinedine zidane playing rugby !
19:55 paul he makes everything wrong.
19:55 paul very very poor
19:55 paul at the end, he scores a goal with the head & is very happy.
19:55 chris heh
19:55 paul except it's a "soccer goal"...
19:55 paul so the trainer is quite disappointed !
20:04 paul !!!!
20:04 chris better play from france
20:04 paul yep
20:05 paul 3m
20:05 paul 2m
20:05 chris card i think
20:05 paul in french it's "anti-jeu"
20:06 paul yep. yellow card
20:09 paul in french "un petit pas, un petit tas"
20:10 paul "a small step, a small group"
20:10 chris pick and go in nz
20:10 chris stupid pass
20:11 paul yes, but 3 or 4 minuts left...
20:11 paul kudos to the blacks
20:11 chris yes used up time
20:12 paul szarzesky & chabal should enter soon says the TV
20:12 paul ??? the ball was out already isn't it ?
20:12 chris yeah these officials are crazy
20:12 paul strange referees decisions...
20:13 slef hi all
20:13 paul hi slef
20:14 slef so, who wants to lose to England next?
20:14 chris heh
20:14 paul lol !
20:14 slef and will this match be won by the referees?
20:14 chris looks like it so far
20:14 paul lol again !
20:14 chris strange decisions
20:14 paul slef : referees are engladers if i don't mind
20:15 slef shame they have the roof closed... no lights visible from my office (so I'm sat in the lounge)
20:15 slef actually, it's probably too misty to see Cardiff anyway
20:15 paul yeah !!!!
20:15 slef tryyyy
20:16 slef heh, paul cheered before they scored here... I wonder how many satellite hops are involved for the pictures to reach me... maybe 1, maybe 3
20:16 chris hehe
20:16 slef funny given I have line-of-sight to the stadium
20:17 slef ow, that was close
20:17 paul ...
20:17 paul kados : 13-13 ...
20:19 paul ? the referee has taken a good decision !
20:19 paul everything happend !!
20:19 paul (probably a frenchism...)
20:22 slef refs: 3 england, 1 safrican, 1 irish...odd mix
20:22 paul 3 englands on the field if I don't mind. dunno which it the TV ref
20:23 slef 2 englands, 1 safrican on the field; tv ref is english
20:23 slef paul: you watching on analogue tv?
20:23 paul yep
20:23 slef that's most of the reason you're faster than me then ;-)
20:24 paul 2055 !
20:24 slef cycle racing++
20:25 slef listened fr-nz 2000-2030 on radio though
20:25 slef another try
20:25 paul try !
20:25 chris try!
20:25 slef did refs see it, though
20:25 chris tv ref must
20:26 slef guess so, from the cheer
20:26 paul another strange descision ?
20:26 slef yikes, the ref only looks 12
20:26 paul 'from the refs)
20:26 chris how can it take this long
20:27 chris ?
20:27 russel w00t
20:27 paul missed
20:28 slef there is no kiwi wilkinson...
20:28 chris he's subbed off
20:28 paul subbed ???
20:28 russel evans should be kicking
20:28 chris substituted
20:30 paul yo !
20:30 slef there is no kiwi flood?
20:30 paul well don ekiwi
20:30 paul & well done froggy as well
20:30 chris yep, 1 more inch
20:30 paul but it was limit..
20:31 paul (another frenchism i'm afraid...)
20:31 slef hrm, what animal are england rugby?
20:31 slef england football is lions, but lions are british in rugby...
20:31 chris ogre?
20:31 chris :)
20:31 slef lawyers ;-)
20:31 chris hehe
20:32 paul haha
20:32 paul yeah !
20:32 slef disturbing number of lawyers and military officers in england rugby over the years
20:32 paul yeah !
20:32 paul yeah !
20:32 paul yeah !
20:32 slef wow
20:32 slef out of nothing
20:32 chris forward pass
20:32 paul yep
20:32 paul I think you"re right
20:32 paul just at the beginning
20:32 chris the ref has a lot to answer for
20:33 slef yep
20:33 chris i dont think he will be reffing again
20:33 paul probably
20:33 slef won't be able to - england will be too involved ;-)
20:33 paul france behind !
20:33 slef er, ahead?
20:33 paul kados : 20-18
20:33 paul sorry
20:33 paul ahead, right
20:34 slef 10mins to go
20:34 slef ack, called to kitchen
20:35 paul !
20:35 paul kick of the century !
20:36 chris momentum shifted to france here
20:37 paul the last 5mn will be loooooonnnnggggg ...
20:38 slef 1 penalty needed
20:38 chris yep
20:39 chris but we dont have our 2 best kickers
20:39 paul do you have a pass counter on your TV ?
20:39 chris no
20:39 paul it's 13th
20:39 paul 14th
20:39 paul 16th
20:39 paul 17th
20:40 paul 19th
20:40 chris cmon
20:40 paul cmon ?
20:40 paul 21th
20:40 chris yelling at the tv
20:40 chris come on nz
20:41 paul ouf !!!
20:41 chris jeez
20:41 chris what is the touch judge doing
20:41 slef smoking pot
20:41 chris hands on the ground
20:41 slef I hear it's easy to get around the stadium
20:41 chris hehe
20:42 paul 2mn to go ...
20:43 paul maybe 3
20:45 chris :(
20:45 paul ...
20:45 chris well i wont be sending the ref a christmas card
20:45 chris but well played france
20:46 paul yeah !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
20:47 paul france win !
20:47 paul after 7 misses against blacks.
20:47 paul but i'm not that proud of that victory
20:47 chris i think there will be lots of talk
20:47 chris about the officials
20:47 paul semi final : no more than 1 team of southern hemis
20:48 paul probably the 1st time this happends
20:48 chris argentina and south africa
20:48 chris 2 maybe
20:49 paul I was just counting NZ/AUS/SAF
20:49 paul the 3 best teams in the world
20:49 paul 2 eliminated !
20:49 chris i think SAF will win from here
20:50 slef nah, eng to retain
20:50 slef ;-)
20:50 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: ru55el_ n=russel@203-118-134-114.netspace.net.nz
20:50 paul ok, time to go to bed for frenchies.
20:50 chris gnight
20:51 paul (sincerely)
20:51 russel night paul
20:51 paul gday russel
20:51 russel well played france
20:51 chris ill be happy again in a few hours
20:51 chris but it probably cost the nz economy a few million $
20:51 chris hehe
20:51 paul the TV sing a famous french song : "we all are going to paradise"
20:52 paul "you and me"
04:48 Brooke what's up?
05:30 chris hi hdl

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