IRC log for #koha, 2005-08-10

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
14:54 kados more power probs in NPL
15:02 owen Yeah, I thought our internet was down at first, but it's just our network
15:03 owen I should have known since my screen session dropped out but not IRC
15:33 rach morning
15:33 owen Hi rach
15:38 rach hmm did we send you updated templates?
15:47 owen rach, I'm not sure... Chris sent me some recently, but I didn't receive a second round, if that's what you're asking
15:56 kados owen: did you figure out authorities>
15:56 owen No, have you? :)
15:56 owen I'd really like to understand it so I can understand the templates better
15:57 kados no ... I don't grok it
15:59 owen Yeah, rach?
15:59 kados please share
15:59 owen Where do you start?
16:01 rach oh now I know this :-)
16:01 rach someone kindly explained it to me
16:02 rach umm *really* you should/would start by importing a file of words into the database in the right spot I believe - ie if you were a big library changing systems
16:02 rach so like many things in a library system, it kinda is a bit clumsy to try do it by hand
16:03 rach however I have done it
16:03 rach umm I wonder if we have any spare kohas about
16:05 kados I'm confused about the initial import of authority records
16:05 kados do you just grab LOC or some other authority file and import it?
16:06 rach erm - as long as when you think me, you replace "you" with "chris" and "magic" then yes :-)
16:06 kados :-)
16:06 rach or from your old system if it has them
16:07 kados right
16:07 rach so if you have a big authority list of authors then you'd grab them from that system
16:07 rach to do them by hand, you actually have to type in each authority - ie each author name or whatever
16:07 rach which is tedious in the extreme
16:08 rach for much other than subjects I'd gues
16:08 rach oh you could do states or countries I guess as well
16:08 rach but you wouldn't want to do much else
16:11 owen So what if I wanted to do it the tedious way, do you know how I would begin?
16:11 rach yeah I have done it
16:12 rach sorry I'm trying to think of an install that we have that I can play on :-)
16:12 rach but I don't think we have any freshies at the moment
16:13 rach um you need to do 2 things
16:13 rach first is you need to a make a category of authority values
16:14 rach use /cgi-bin/koha/admin/
16:14 rach make a category like "sub" for subjects
16:14 rach and then you add a value - so just hte word that it is  - I have one for Maori for example
16:15 rach then you need to link your "sub" category with the "subject" marc field
16:15 rach so you have to make the category first then link it to the marc field
16:17 rach and then if you're in MARC cataloguing, it should check what you put in against the authorised words, and do some sort of warning I assume if it's not in your list
16:18 rach we did authority files in 1.3 (so rosalie has them for subjects) that work in the non marc environment, but I believe that these won't/don't and we'll be needing to make some code/tempolate changes to get them going
16:18 rach particularly for normal acquisitions, but probalbly simple as well I'd guess
16:19 owen What does this have to do with authorities? (/cgi-bin/koha/authorities/
16:19 rach that hasn't tended to bother us because our simple acquisitions people if they have an authority list for subjects generally get us to make a pick list of subjects for them
16:20 rach well if it's nothing - then I've no idea what authorites are :-)
16:21 owen Bummer
16:21 rach umm you gotta think that they are related
16:21 kados I thought there were two types of authorities: author and subject
16:22 kados and that they defined the correct punctuation/spelling for things like names, etc.
16:22 owen Well, the process rach described can create *any* kind of authorised values, for many different kinds of input
16:22 rach I think we might need your stephen
16:22 kados yea ... stephen could probably explain it
16:22 rach yes you can - so you can have them for locations, like country, for publisher, for anything really
16:22 owen Authorities might be something specifically MARC-related
16:23 rach so I was all clear, up until you just showed me that page :-)
16:23 owen But there doesn't seem to be anywhere to begin (from
16:23 owen All you can do is search, but if you're just starting out there's nothing to search!
16:24 kados right
16:24 kados I was confused about that too
16:24 kados but I think
16:24 kados that there's an option in the install
16:24 kados to load an authorities file
16:24 rach I thought that you did that in the authorise values admin
16:25 kados there's also a
16:25 kados in misc
16:25 kados and a
16:25 kados command-line scripts
16:25 rach yeah that sounds likely to me
16:25 kados so I'm guessing you nab LOC's authority file
16:26 kados and import it with
16:26 rach but my one I'd made isn't getting searched
16:26 kados then you can search on it and such
16:26 owen Oh, simple as that, eh? :)
16:26 kados hehe
16:26 rach OH but probably it's not linked to a marc record thingy
16:26 thd_ kados: LC charges money for their authority files but they are in the public domain and available from other suppliers.  Free to copy if you know someplace that has them.
16:26 kados
16:27 kados thd_: know of any good sources?
16:27 thd_ kados: that URL can only get you authorities one at a time.
16:27 kados owen:
16:28 kados thd_: right
16:28 thd_ kados: I had preferred laserquest but sadly AT&T seems to have closed them last year.
16:28 kados bummer
16:29 kados be back in <30 mins
16:29 thd_ kados: TLC has them in ITS MARC and could also sell them in ISO 2709 format if you asked very nicely.
16:46 kados thd_: I'm of course looking for a free solution ;-0
17:09 thd_ kados: the LC files are public doamin if you know a place that has them and can persuade them to give them to you.
17:12 kados thd_: right ;-)
17:16 thd_ kados: If you just want test files .
17:17 thd_ kados: What do you actually need to do?
19:06 chris heya owen
19:06 owen Hi chris
19:06 owen How's it going?
19:07 chris not too bad at all
19:07 chris its a nice sunny winters day
19:07 chris[…]asp?ID=IWELLING14
19:08 chris thats a weather station on my friends house, on the other side of the valley to me
19:08 owen Not very wintery, is it?
19:09 chris yeah its a bit warmer than usual
19:09 chris its the lack of wind thats unusual, wellington doesnt get that cold temperature wise .. but the wind usually is very biting
19:11 chris and it hasnt rained much, winter here is usually windy and rainy
19:11 chris so we'll probably have a crap summer
19:11 chris but oh well
19:12 owen It's been very dry here.  The paper today had a story about the farmers lamenting their poor crops
19:18 chris so there is only english in the dropdown?
19:18 owen On the test server I'm working on now, there's only one template loaded, and no other languages.
19:19 owen (Probably the first time I've seen Koha this way)
19:19 chris right, it should be simple enought to make it go, hmm only one language available, dont put the change language bit
19:19 chris need to pass something thru that we can <TMPL_IF on
19:21 owen That must be it: "languages => \@options,"
19:21 owen Can @options be evaluated as a number representing its size?
19:22 chris yep
19:22 chris my $count_of_options=@options
19:22 chris then
19:22 chris if ($count_of_options > 1) {
19:22 chris something like that :)
19:29 owen Works like a charm
19:30 owen I'm sure it's an almost impossible case, though.  Usually Koha will look for translations from any installed template
19:31 chris itd be nice for it to be real smart
19:31 chris and offer only ones for the template you are in, and only if the page exists
19:33 chris but if templates/translations were up to date .. wouldnt need that anyway ;)
19:34 kados and to ignore any CVS dirs ;-)
19:56 owen Have you looked at the opac-main script, kados?  It already is hard-coded to ignore 'images'
19:56 owen "next if $language eq 'images';"
19:56 owen Could you do the same with 'CVS' ?
20:04 kados I don't see why not
20:04 kados just add that line and it should work
20:09 thd_ kados: what do want to dow with authorities
20:09 thd_ ?
20:10 owen We don't actually use authority records at our library at the moment
20:10 thd_ owen: no use of authorities at NPL, that is terrible :)
20:11 chris down with the man
20:11 chris npl doesnt respect authority :)
20:11 owen :)
20:11 thd_ owen: install UNIMARC Koha to find out how Koha uses auhorities.
20:12 thd_ owen: I have not investigated closely yet, but that was on my very long.... list :)
20:13 owen Why UNIMARC?
20:14 thd_ owen: paul has scripts for authorities in UNIMARC.  You can see how they work.
20:15 thd_ owen: linking to the authorority file is provided in UNIMARC bibliographic but not in MARC 21 bibliographic so adaptation may be necessary.
20:16 thd_ owen: I will be back in circa 1.5 hr., if you will still be up then.
20:16 owen I doubt it :)
20:32 kados also grabs isbns 
20:59 kados chris I've got this script working real nice ... it's based on Net::Z3950
20:59 kados but I've got one prob
20:59 kados the connection only seems to work for the first 30-40 queries
21:00 chris the connection to?
21:00 chris the z3950 server?
21:00 kados I think it dies
21:00 kados I'm not really sure what's happneing
21:01 kados but I think I do one connection at the beginning:
21:01 kados my $conn = new Net::Z3950::Connection("$zserver", "$zport",
21:01 kados                                           databaseName => "$zdb")
21:01 chris not the database connection eh?
21:01 kados no
21:01 kados just z3950
21:01 chris right
21:01 kados then inside the loop I do:
21:01 kados my $rs = $conn->search(-prefix => "$searchterm") or die $conn->errmsg();
21:01 kados so after 30-40 queries it dies
21:02 kados but I need to to do another connection instead
21:02 kados should I do a $conn subroutine?
21:02 kados $conn = getconn();
21:02 kados ?
21:02 chris hmm
21:02 chris yep
21:02 kados after the or ... and if I do that how can I pick up where I left off
21:03 chris what methods do you get with $conn ?
21:03 chris can you do
21:03 chris if (!$conn->connected){
21:03 chris $conn=reconnect();
21:03 chris }
21:03 kados ahh ... nice
21:04 chris or something to that effect, just before you do the search
21:04 kados I just use the 'search'mentod
21:04 kados method even
21:05 chris hmm
21:06 chris seems that all you get
21:07 chris in that case id do
21:07 chris if (my $rs = $conn->search(-prefix => "$searchterm")){
21:07 chris  do something;
21:08 chris }
21:08 chris else {
21:08 chris $conn=reconnect();
21:08 chris my $rs = $conn->search(-prefix => "$searchterm");
21:08 chris }
21:08 chris hmm with the die still
21:09 chris or you could even do something with a while
21:09 chris which would make it keep trying until it got a result
21:09 chris or a for loop .. with a sleep
21:09 chris try 10 times .. then give up
21:09 chris :-)
21:09 kados hehe
21:09 chris depends how robust you want to get
21:09 kados right
21:09 kados ok ... I'll think it over
21:09 kados thanks
21:12 kados chris:
21:13 kados chris: don't see any built in checks to see if a connection exists
21:13 kados do you?
21:13 chris nope doesnt look like it from the man pages
21:13 chris so i think we;ll have to do it ourselves
21:13 kados right
21:14 kados we'll have to make sure that Perl/ZOOM has a check
21:14 kados ;-)
21:14 chris :)
21:14 kados though I suppose I could do something like:
21:14 kados if (!$conn->name){
21:15 kados                $conn=getconn();
21:16 chris[…]tion.html#manager()
21:17 chris i wonder what that does
21:19 kados yea ... I was looking at that
21:19 kados well this little if seems to be working
21:19 chris $mgr = $conn->manager();
21:19 chris        $conn = $mgr->wait();
21:19 chris        if ($mgr->failed()) {
21:26 thd kados: What are you trying to do with authorities?
21:26 kados thd: owen already answered that ;-)
21:27 kados thd: btw: I got LOC working with Net::Z3950
21:27 thd kados: what was the secret?
21:27 kados thd: the problem was the default record syntax returned LOC didn't support it
21:28 kados sorry ... that didn't make sense
21:28 kados Net::Z3950's default record syntax isn't supported by LOC
21:29 kados and I declared my preference after I searched which is a bad thing to do ;-)
21:29 thd kados: Do you mean 1 syntax for LC and another for the rest of the world?
21:29 kados but it's working like a charm now
21:29 kados no ... I didn't specify to use USMARC
21:29 kados for the return syntax
21:29 kados $conn->option(preferredRecordSyntax => Net::Z3950::RecordSyntax::USMARC);
21:29 kados until after I did the search
21:30 kados once I bumped it up it worked fine
21:30 chris so we should be able to fix that for the koha z3950 client too
21:31 thd kados: you had specified no syntax and the Voyager server refused to understand that you must have meant USMARC? :)
21:32 kados no ... Net::Z3950 request a syntax not supported by LOC by default (don't remember what it's called)
21:33 thd chris: As far as I know, the Koha Z39.50 client works fine with LC presently, although, it could work better in general.
21:35 thd kados: Does NPL have a subscription to ITS.MARC services?
21:37 thd kdaos: Sorry, that was not clear. Does NPL subscribe to the record services from TLC for ITS.MARC?
21:38 thd kados: You could obtain MARC 21 authority records matching your MARC 21 bibliographic records that way.
21:40 thd kados: But if you want to have all the authority records locally, then you have a problem of a different order.
21:41 kados no ... they only subscribe to the program ... not the service
21:43 thd kados: Many libraries have authority records, and if you found a nice one, you could just copy them with your government's blessing..
21:44 thd kados: You have actually paid for them already when you paid your taxes.
21:46 thd kados: Does your university library have authority records?
21:50 thd kados: Many libraries merely validate authorities from an external source without holding the authority records locally.  Also, many ILS systems as you well know are not good at exporting records in the standard communications format.
21:56 thd kados: How do I manage multiple Koha's on a single system for the koha.conf.  I want to have both MARC 21 Koha and UNIMARC Koha running at the same time?
22:02 thd chris, rach, russ: Perhaps kados has gone to sleep.  I want to have different types of Koha configurations running on one system at the same time but I am uncertain what do with koha.conf .
22:02 chris i do this
22:02 chris cp /etc/koha.conf /etc/koha-2.2.2.conf
22:03 chris then cp /etc/apache/conf.d/koha-httpd.conf /etc/apache/conf.d/koha-httpd.2.2.2.conf
22:03 chris then i edit /etc/apache/conf.d/koha-httpd.2.2.2.conf
22:04 chris SetEnv KOHA_CONF "/etc/koha.conf"
22:04 chris change that to /etc/koha-2.2.2.conf
22:05 chris and thats about all you need to do ... actually dont cp, use mv
22:05 chris then you will be able to install another koha without it thinking you are upgrading
22:06 thd chris: How can the environment variable point to more than one location?
22:06 chris eh?
22:06 chris why would it need to?
22:07 chris the environment variable only needs to point at the conf file for that koha
22:07 chris so you have /etc/koha-1.2.3.conf and /etc/koha-2.2.3.conf etc
22:08 thd chris: I want  SetEnv KOHA_CONF "/etc/koha.conf" and  SetEnv KOHA_CONF "/etc/koha-2.2.2.conf" to use your example.  I want both running at the same time.
22:08 chris and then you koha-httpd-1.2.3.conf and koha-httpd-2.2.3.conf which sets the KOHA_CONF
22:09 chris thats fine you just have 2 virtual host
22:09 chris s
22:09 chris one telling it to use /etc/koha.conf the other telling it to use /etc/koha-2.2.2.conf
22:10 thd chris: Oh, I had assumed that the www or whatever user would share the same environment space however virtual hosts were used.
22:10 chris nope its per virtualhost
22:11 chris luckily :)
22:11 chris on one of our boxes i have 23 kohas running
22:12 thd chris: Well virtual hosts do more than I expected, happily, not always as expected.
22:13 thd chris: You should have 12 more Koha clients for those instances.  :)
22:13 chris thats just our demo box
22:14 chris so we set up a little sandbox for potential clients to play in
22:15 thd chris: I leave that business to you, kados, paul, etc.  I want multiple sandboxes, with matching swings :)
22:46 thd kados: I just read what you had actually been speaking to chris about.  There is another method of addressing your Z39.50 server connection issues.
01:40 osmoze hi
02:23 osmoze I search for a how-to for opac-style, i don't find it on kohadocs, have you got some idea ?
02:26 paul salut j sebastien
02:26 paul tu veux savoir quoi exactement ?
02:27 osmoze bonjour paul, en fait, je viens de recevoir notre logo, et j aimerai sur ma version de test , tester avec les couleurs
02:27 paul et bien tu vas dans le répertoire ou es Koha,
02:27 osmoze ok
02:27 paul puis celui de l'opac
02:28 paul htdocs/opac-tmpl/css/en/include
02:28 paul là, il y a une feuille de style opac.css
02:28 paul tu la copies ailleurs
02:28 paul tu l'édites pour l'adapter à tes couleurs
02:28 paul ensuite, tu la mets dans un endroit accessible par ton serveur web.
02:28 paul et tu vas dans
02:29 paul koha >> parametres >> pref systemes
02:29 paul >> opacstylesheet >> modifier >> mettre l'url de ta feuille de style.
02:29 paul dans un 1er temps, je te conseille de mettre un truc évident, genre background-color:red pour la mainbloc
02:30 paul comme ca, tu verras tout de suite si elle est à la bonne place !
02:30 osmoze vi, petite astuce pas bete le red :)
02:30 osmoze merci ^^
02:30 paul dans, si tu regardes le source, tu dois avoir au début, dans le stylesheet... l'url que tu auras mise
02:30 paul de rien.
03:04 hdl chris around ?
03:04 paul chris sleeping, for sure ;-)
03:05 russ at 8pm
03:05 hdl hi paul.
03:05 russ i think not :-)
03:05 hdl hi russ.
03:05 russ hi
03:05 paul ??? nz is GMT -8 isn't it ?
03:05 russ no
03:06 russ it is GMT - 12
03:22 thd paul: what are you trying to do with your leader plugin?
03:22 paul help user filling the leader
03:22 paul (should not need to know which byte contain which value)
03:22 paul I mean here for values that are not automatically calculated
03:23 chris gmt +12
03:23 chris at the moment
03:23 chris +13 during summer
03:23 paul hello chris.
03:23 chris so its 8.23pm
03:23 paul gmt +12 or gmt -12 ?
03:24 chris +12
03:24 paul is tuesday or wednesday for you ?
03:24 chris its tuesday 8.23pm
03:24 paul chould be tuesday or monday
03:25 thd paul: Is your email is asking about recommended default values?
03:25 paul yes
03:26 chris hi hdl, just reading your email now
03:26 chris re-reading :)
03:26 hdl hi chris.
03:26 hdl Thx.
03:28 chris i think that sql is mysql dependent
03:29 chris so the question really is, is it much faster than doing an it another way
03:29 chris and if so ... what is more important, database independence or speed
03:30 hdl sure, sql is mysql independant, but are DATE manipulation functions SQL functions or mysql add-ons ?
03:30 hdl That was the core.
03:31 chris i was meaning that particular SQL :-)
03:31 hdl :)
03:31 paul you mean : it's standard mysql SQL but not ANSI SQL ;-)
03:31 chris yeah
03:32 chris im not sure about INTERVAL, ill do some googling
03:33 chris hmm no interval looks ok
03:35 hdl Wow. Thx.
03:35 hdl The fact is that we wouldn't like to tie development to mysql more than it as atm. If I understood some dev goals.
03:35 hdl But using DATES in queries is so useful when it comes to stats, and lists, that ti would be a pity not to use that facility.
03:38 chris yeah
03:38 chris date_sub is now the only bit im worried about
03:38 thd chris: I would vote for database independence, if speed kills :)
03:39 chris that appears to be the only bit that isnt ansi sql compliant
03:40 chris in that i cant find it mentioned anywhere except mysql documentation
03:41 hdl Is there a work around ?
03:42 chris i wonder if just - works
03:42 chris it would work for postgres
03:42 chris from the postgresql datesintervals faq
03:42 chris Now, to work with TIMESTAMP and INTERVAL, you need to understand these few simple rules :
03:42 chris   1. The difference between two TIMESTAMPs is always an INTERVAL :
03:42 chris      TIMESTAMP '1999-12-30' - TIMESTAMP '1999-12-11' = INTERVAL '19 days'
03:42 chris   2. You may add or subtract an INTERVAL to a TIMESTAMP to produce another TIMESTAMP :
03:43 chris      TIMESTAMP '1999-12-11' + INTERVAL '19 days' = TIMESTAMP '1999-12-30'
03:43 chris You may add or subtract two INTERVALS :
03:43 chris INTERVAL '1 month' + INTERVAL '1 month 3 days' = INTERVAL '2 months 3 days'
03:43 chris so i wonder if
03:43 chris $delay DAY)
03:44 chris could be (CURDATE - (INTERVAL $delay DAY))
03:44 chris (CURDATE() - (INTERVAL $delay DAY))
03:44 chris even
03:44 chris i wonder if that works in mysql
03:45 chris if it did, it should be ansi compliant
03:47 thd chris: If you need DB flavour specific code, a check for if (MySQL) { MySQL specific code; } elsif (Postgres) { Postgres specific code; } else { ANSI code; }
03:47 chris good idea thd
03:57 thd paul: I suggest additional default values of MARC 21 000/17 '7' and 00/18 'a'; and UNIMARC 000/17 '3' and 000/18 #(blank).
03:58 paul you mean 'minimal level' for marc21 char 17 ?
03:58 paul and AACR-2 for char 18
03:58 thd paul: yes
03:58 thd yes
04:00 paul ok, done
04:00 hdl chris : I tested your solution :(CURDATE() - (INTERVAL $delay DAY))
04:00 hdl It does not work :( in mysql.
04:00 hdl So should I add a syspref for dbstyle or is there one in order to do what thd propose ?
04:01 paul there is none.
04:01 paul if you add such a systempref, it should be discussed on koha-devel before i think
04:02 paul (& i'm not sure it's a good idea to putvthis in 2.2)
04:02 chris yeah, would be good to go in head though
04:02 russ hi shaun
04:03 shaun hi russ
04:03 hdl $context->{"config"}{"db_scheme"}
04:03 hdl is in
04:03 hdl and db_scheme gives dbdriver....
04:05 thd paul: I would hope that some X.X  would have a system preference for MARC 21 and UNIMARC with the record type of each record identified in the DB and recorded in a local use field.
04:09 thd paul: where does the DB record field order for repeating fields?
04:10 paul ???
04:12 thd paul: There has always been a column recording subfield order.  Where is the column for repeating field order.  The templates seem to interpret this correctly.  Is it by natural first in first out design when reading data?
04:15 chris ok gotta give the laptop to my wife, see you's later
04:17 thd paul: Furthermore, how does Koha identify the correct repeated holdings field to update the item information in a record, or am I imagining something that does not happen?
04:22 paul thd : there's also a column for this
04:22 paul marc_subfield_table.tagorder
04:27 thd paul: I was not expecting to look in the same table :)
04:42 hdl see you chris.
04:42 thd paul: Does UNIMARC 000/17 '3' mean partial record and not minimal record as I had imagined?  There are fewer possibilities for 000/17 in UNIMARC.  Partial record would be MARC 21 000/17 '5' which is not what I meant.
04:50 thd paul: Does UNIMARC have the national/minimal level record concept encoded?
04:54 thd paul: maybe the concept is shared with completeness in UNIMARC.  There is a strong conceptual relation.
05:01 thd paul: I do not recall specification of mandatory and optional fields and subfields distinguished by encoding level as in MARC 21.  A national level record may merely be presumed to use more optional fields in UNIMARC.
07:47 hdl paul_away around ? kados ? in http://localhost/cgi-bin/koha/[…]pl?basket=#basket
07:47 hdl it looks to me like order has two VERY different meanings :
07:47 hdl - order a basket or a new book
07:47 hdl - choose the order of the list displayed (First col A col B col C or first Col C col A col B)
07:47 hdl Do I get it right ?
07:48 paul_away yep
07:48 paul (internet connection problems for me today...)
08:12 osmoze petite question, je n arrive pas a faire changer la couleurs du defilement de la souris dans une boite de dialogue dans l opac, une idée ?
08:13 paul c'est le select:hover
08:14 osmoze ok, merci
08:23 osmoze paul, c etait aussi le pacement de la souris, quand la souris passe, ca change de couleur, mais ma demande porte sur ce que la souris fait en choix en passant dessus ( chez moi c est jaune pour l instant et je ne retrouve pas la correspondance dans la feuille de style)
08:24 osmoze alors, dans la boite de choix
08:24 osmoze quand tu ouvre pour faire ton choix, le backgroud entier change
08:24 osmoze cependant, lors du passage de la souris a l interieur pour le choix, c est jhaune
08:25 osmoze et je voudrait changer, mais je ne sais ou le faire
08:27 paul ah, j'ai compris
08:27 paul je crois hélas qu'on ne peut pas trop faire, en tous cas je ne sais pas
08:27 paul c'est comme la forme des boutons radio et autres checkbox, on change pas ca
08:27 paul c'est géré par le toolkit qui l'affiche (Qt, Gtk ou autre)
08:28 osmoze ok :)
09:38 hdl hi owen...
09:38 owen Hi hdl
09:38 paul hi owen
09:38 owen Hi paul
09:38 hdl you're first.
09:39 kados hehe ... now it's a race eh?
09:39 paul ;-)
09:40 paul i've sent many mails & commits & recieve no mails from sf
09:40 paul kados, did you recieve mails called "long is the road" ?
09:40 paul (in koha-devel)
09:40 kados let me check
09:41 kados I don't see it
09:41 owen Me neither
09:41 paul sf MTA is down
09:41 paul once again...
09:41 kados grr
09:41 paul works in the morning, until americans wake up...
09:41 kados hopefully no emails are lost
09:42 hdl Nasty americans .... :)
09:42 kados only delayed ... right?
09:42 kados hehe
09:42 paul I hope !!!
09:42 kados we'll keep tabs on it
09:42 paul (anyway, i've the copy, i can re-sent them if needed)
09:42 owen Not nasty, just hard-working open source fans! :)
09:42 kados if we've lost the mail we should definitely consider switching from sf
09:43 paul (for sure : with 5 weeks holidays + 13 closed days every year + 35 hours a week in France, we can't be considered as hard-working ;-) )
09:43 paul (hopefully, you have got the best frenchies with hdl & me ;-) )
09:43 kados hehe
09:44 owen paul, do authorities work with MARC21 or just UNIMARC?
09:44 paul should work with both.
09:44 paul except if there is some tricky marc21 thing I've missed
09:45 owen How do you start using authorities?  Do you have to import them, or can they be added manually?
09:45 paul 3 possibilities :
09:45 paul * enter them manually
09:45 paul * rebuild them from biblios after bulkmarcimport'ing them
09:46 paul * import them from external source (like BNF in france) & rebuild the links after.
09:46 shaun kados: is there an agenda for tomorrow's meeting?
09:46 paul I have experienced only 1 & 2 atm
09:47 paul (& for 2, i have a nice script that rebuild them as efficiently as possible. not in official CVS yet, but I should commit it...)
09:47 owen So you can build authority records from your existing MARC records?
09:47 paul of course, when you rebuild auth from biblios, you don't have rejected forms & associated forms as they aren't in your biblios usually
09:47 paul yep.
09:48 owen Cool.  That sounds useful.
09:48 owen I'd really like to know more about how authorities work, if only so that I can understand the templates better
09:49 owen How do you manually enter an authority?
09:49 paul let me explain...
09:49 paul (with unimarc samples)
09:49 paul you have a biblio :
09:49 paul 200$aThe 2 towers
09:50 paul $f JRR Tolkien
09:50 paul 700$a Tolkien
09:50 paul 700$b Junior Robert (not sure it's the true name ;-) )
09:50 paul in unimarc, 700 contains "main author authority"
09:50 paul (physical author)
09:51 paul 701 additionnal author
09:51 paul 702 other responsability
09:51 paul that's for the biblio
09:51 paul in the authority, you will have a MARC structure as well.
09:51 paul it says :
09:51 paul 200$a => authority main entry, physical person (the name of the author)
09:52 paul 200$b => authority additional entry (the surname of the author)
09:52 paul 200$f => dates (birth/death)
09:52 paul 200$c => title (like Sir, Lord, King, Holy...)
09:52 paul PLUS :
09:52 paul 250$a => main entry rejected form
09:53 paul 250$b => surname rejected form
09:53 paul ...
09:53 paul for example :
09:53 paul 200$a Tolkien
09:53 paul 200$b Junior Robert
09:53 paul 250$a Tolkien
09:53 paul 250$b JRR
09:53 paul 250$a Tolquien
09:54 paul 250$b JRR
09:54 paul (we supposes Tolkien is spelled tolquien sometimes)
09:54 paul once you have defined " physical author" authority type
09:55 paul you can define the cataloguing framework for it exactly as for biblios
09:55 paul choose which field you want, which you don't want...
09:55 paul you also must say "for this authority type, you must report the 200 field into the biblio"
09:55 paul then you go to the biblio framework.
09:55 paul say, in 700.
09:56 paul Here, you just have to :
09:56 paul * modify subfields to say : OK, guy, 700$a is related to "physical author" authority type
09:56 paul * create a $9 subfield (hidden)
09:56 paul that's all.
09:56 paul now, in MARC editor, you have ...
09:57 paul that opens a popup where you can search your authority.
09:57 paul and once you have choosen it :
09:57 paul ALL subfields from 200 entry are copied in 700 subfields
09:57 paul (so $a in $a, $b in $b, ...)
09:57 paul + the authid is copied in $9 to keep trace of the link.
09:58 paul if you want to enable secondary authors in your biblio framework, just enable 701
09:58 paul and say for 701$a "related to authority physical person"
09:58 paul you've got the same ..., related to the same authorities.
09:58 paul does that sound OK ?
09:59 paul just one more thing:
09:59 paul in misc you have a script
09:59 paul that you should run without args to see what it does, as it's very useful
10:00 owen Where do you set up the authority in the first place?
10:00 paul Koha >> parameters >> thesaurus structure
10:00 paul (as thesaurus is an organized authority structure. a "flat" thesaurus is an authority list ;-) )
10:01 owen thesaurus structure?  I always wondered what that was for :)
10:01 paul now you are "aware" ;-)
10:01 paul (do you know who is Jean claude van damme ?)
10:01 owen Yes, but I don't think I got the reference
10:02 paul probably.
10:02 paul JC van damme is really crazy. He often goes to TV and explains "moi, tu vois, je suis  "aware", parce que les fleurs et les petits oiseaux, je les enjoy, et que la life, elle est super"
10:03 paul and mixed english/french, really crazy.
10:03 paul so, in france, when you say "tu es aware", you speak like him ;-)
10:03 owen :)
10:03 hdl got an other one from him :
10:04 hdl when you sleep and you dream you are sleeping, you need to awake twice before being awake...
10:04 paul lol
10:05 paul that's better in it's true version, half french, half english !
10:07 paul
10:08 hdl He often shows on TV under illegal and strong substances.
10:08 owen Too many blows to the head maybe.
10:08 paul probably...
10:09 owen Okay, paul, I must be doing something wrong, because there's nothing in the 'thesaurus' drop-down menu in MARC structure
10:09 paul did you define a thesaurus ?
10:09 paul in koha >> systempref >> tuehsaurus structure ?
10:10 paul >> add authority type
10:10 owen Oh, I just went straight to MARC structure on that page
10:11 paul NO
10:11 paul you should be on
10:11 paul
10:11 owen
10:11 paul (that smells like biblio framework I agree, but it is not biblioframework !)
10:11 paul[…]dmin/
10:11 paul (test/test)
10:11 owen Yes, I'm there
10:12 owen And tag reported is the MARC tag the authority relates to?
10:12 paul if you click on "MARC structure" for default framework, what do you get ?
10:12 paul in my previous sample, it's 200
10:13 owen Oh, so it's the authority tag
10:14 owen And /then/ I go into MARC structure on the authorities page?
10:15 paul (the authority field number that goes into the bilbio field)
10:15 paul ???
10:15 owen
10:16 paul yes.
10:16 owen
10:16 paul here, you can define MARC structure for authorities
10:16 paul exactly like you define MARC structure for biblios
10:17 paul (if your tables are empty, you can fill them with : 22/misc/sql-datas/english/authorities_normal_marc21.sql
10:17 paul )
10:18 owen Is there anything special I should do when adding the new subfield?
10:45 paul just for testing koha-hackers :
10:45 paul
10:51 paul scoring : 88
10:54 owen Koha seems to have great difficulty returning an item that has been cancelled.
10:57 kados yea ...
10:57 kados I'll add that to my list
10:58 owen I guess I'd vote to have Koha warn the user that the item is cancelled and link them to the interface to un-cancel if necessary
10:58 owen ...rather than uncancelling automatically.
11:27 thd owen: what is the nature of the bug that you had mentioned for the template to modifying the framework?
11:28 owen I've seen a bug in the NPL templates where after you edit and save a MARC subfield structure, instead of replacing the old values the updated values are /added/, so you get duplicates
11:28 owen I thought I saw the default templates to this too, today, so now I'm not sure where the problem comes from.
11:28 owen I haven't heard anyone else report that they've seen this behavior too
11:29 thd owen: If not enough people use a feature, its bugs will tend not to be reported :)
11:30 owen Does it work for you?
11:32 thd owen: I have been afraid to introduce a problem in the DB after you had mentioned the bug, so I have not tested that.
11:32 owen You could try it safely by creating a new framework and playing around with that.  Then the framework could be deleted without affecting your other data
11:33 thd owen: a fine idea. more sandboxes with different coloured sand.
11:43 kados for anyone who's interested, Northland Bible Baptist College, a client of LibLime's webt live today. You try out the OPAC at :
11:44 hdl Congratulations kados.
11:45 hdl quite sexy.
11:57 thd kados: extended Z39.50 services might address your connection problem.  Had you asked Mike Taylor about that issue?
11:58 thd kados: I mean the time out issue.

| Channels | #koha index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | plain, newest first | summary