Time  Nick             Message
20:28 caroline         just in case...
20:27 huginn`          caroline: The operation succeeded.
20:27 caroline         @later tell davidnind[m] Hey David, can you read this discussion I had with ashimema and mtj and let us know your thoughts? http://irc.koha-community.org/koha/2022-11-08#i_2460668
20:25 ashimema         :D
20:25 caroline         do I need to ping him with the [m] too or both work?
20:24 huginn`          caroline: The operation succeeded.
20:24 caroline         @later tell davidnind Hey David, can you read this discussion I had with ashimema and mtj and let us know your thoughts? http://irc.koha-community.org/koha/2022-11-08#i_2460668
20:12 mtj              caroline: no probs, there are a few options here :0)
20:12 ashimema         Hugs
20:12 ashimema         We'd definitely run it past david
20:11 caroline         (jk, I don't know his schedule, but he seems around at all hours, except now lol)
20:10 caroline         I feel bad talking about while he is (hopefully!) sleeping after having stayed up all night testing patches
20:09 caroline         I'm all for optimizing, but we definitely should include davidnind in the discussion as he is DM right now
20:09 mtj              i think a good rule could be... if you refer to an image twice, use an alias in the image.rst
20:04 ashimema         Anywho...
20:04 ashimema         But... This particular bit with images doesn't convert nicely.. it takes loads of manual intervention if I want to put them into our images.rst file and then use substitutions instead
20:03 ashimema         Our team here seems to like drafting in Google docs (it's sooooo much easier to write simple docs in).. then they spend hours converting.. I'm using pandoc to turn Google docs to rst markup
20:03 ashimema         Except it's a bit if a pain... Especially with merge conflicts or if trying to use pandoc to convert from other formats
20:02 caroline         oh definitely, I wouldn't want to reinvent the wheel all the time. If what has been done so far works, it works
20:01 ashimema         Why bother with an images.rst file at all?
20:01 mtj              (like how we handle koha database updates)
20:01 ashimema         Yeah, but they were built from what we already had seen done.. rather than thought about independently
20:01 mtj              ..or split the images.rst update into a temp file, to be manually merged
20:01 caroline         There are some guidelines https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/ReStructuredText_-_Tips_and_Tricks
20:00 mtj              perhaps a script that updated images.rst before a release
20:00 ashimema         Well.. we've always added them this way.. as substitutions.. there are no real hard guidelines to our rst procedures.. we've just done what has been done before us
20:00 caroline         just copy paste the line where you want it and that's it
20:00 caroline         I don't think that would even be necessary for the couple of images that are used twice
19:59 mtj              ashimema: i think would be ok ^
19:59 ashimema         We should just use images in the simple form and only transplant them into a substitution in perhaps a shared_images.rst later if we decide to use said image in multiple places
19:58 caroline         I honestly never questioned it, except when I get rebases with images and that's when I rage about it lol
19:58 caroline         mtj, I don't think so, but I thought there might have been a reason
19:58 ashimema         I'd suggest we're making things overly complex up front
19:58 ashimema         I was just reading similar
19:58 ashimema         https://sublime-and-sphinx-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/images.html
19:55 mtj              caroline: ok, so images are not technically required to be added to the images.rst file
19:54 mtj              oops, rst calls them 'Substitutions', not aliases
19:53 mtj              https://github.com/MarkHoeber/sublime_sphinx_guide/blob/master/source/images.rst#use-image-substitutions
19:52 caroline         the instances where an image is used many times are very rare afaik
19:51 mtj              ..if you plan on using the image many times in your document, you can use the image's alias instead
19:50 mtj              ashimema: it seems the images.rst file defines an 'alias' for each image
19:47 ashimema         I wonder if rangi knows.. I have a feeling there was a reason at the time we migrated from doxygen to rst
19:45 caroline         the current method is a nightmare for merges and rebases
19:45 ashimema         https://gitlab.com/koha-community/koha-manual/-/commit/cd27f5bef555fa92d46412056c29bf96e2801e99
19:45 ashimema         See the eRM chapter that got merged today for that approach
19:44 ashimema         I still think we need alt text and stuff.. but I get the distinct feeling it would all be a bit simpler to do inline in the file your working in rather than the big list file
19:44 ashimema         But when I use pandoc to convert a docx to rst (with the extract images options, it just links images from a directory directly.
19:43 mtj              aah, thats a rst/sphinx thing, not related to older oxygen
19:43 caroline         or maybe not loaded but checked at least
19:43 caroline         So it seems the images are loaded every time there is the include
19:43 caroline         I thought maybe it was to "load" the images once, but when I build locally and there is an image error, it pops up for every chapter
19:42 ashimema         I'm not close enough to sphinx to really understand why we're doing what we're doing .
19:42 ashimema         So we link to a link in a file that links to a ln image in a file
19:41 ashimema         Lol, caroline beat me
19:41 ashimema         https://gitlab.com/koha-community/koha-manual/-/blob/master/source/images.rst
19:40 caroline         line 1 of circulation.rst for the include and line 46 for the alias
19:40 caroline         and if you go in any other file, you'll see the include at the top and the aliases in the text example https://gitlab.com/koha-community/koha-manual/-/blob/master/source/circulation.rst?plain=1
19:39 caroline         Here is the file with all the images https://gitlab.com/koha-community/koha-manual/-/blob/master/source/images.rst?plain=1
19:39 caroline         mtj sure!
19:38 mtj              caroline: can you show me an example in the git repo?
19:38 caroline         ashimema, your proposal was just to have them directly in the text?
19:38 caroline         I'll try to catch him later
19:37 caroline         We'd have to talk with davidnind see what he thinks
19:37 caroline         interesting, so it's an historical thing that we're bringing forward. It might not be necessary anymore...
19:36 mtj              caroline: hmm.. i think its probable
19:33 caroline         mtj is that what made it necessary to have images in one seperate file?
19:33 mtj              https://www.oxygenxml.com/xml_editor.html
19:33 mtj              hi caroline, we used a tool oxygenxml for the older versions of the manual
18:13 oleonard         Yes
18:13 tcohen           oleonard around?
16:08 reiveune         bye
16:00 marcelr          cu later
15:59 oleonard         https://snipboard.io/r8CwSI.jpg
15:56 lukeg            hi
15:55 ashimema         I kinda hate that idea now I've written it down.. lol
15:55 ashimema         so it uses card but if it's nested we switch from white to the grey background...
15:55 * ashimema       just wondered if nesting should invert the background..
15:47 oleonard         Now I'm having second thoughts about the lack of contrast between the white of the tab and the page background
15:33 cait             hm hte holds one a little more difficult ok...
15:33 cait             sorry, still catching up
15:32 oleonard         The holds page probably doesn't need the <fieldset> wrapper at all
15:31 ashimema         not so sure about the first one oleonard highlights
15:30 ashimema         yeah.. for that one I reckon we can
15:30 cait             we do that on hte advanced search
15:30 cait             could we mabe break that up into several sections?
15:30 ashimema         perhaps leave them as is when inside a container... come back to it later.. but do the case where there not inside a container here?
15:28 oleonard         Another example of tabs within a container: https://snipboard.io/t6JvbK.jpg
15:27 * ashimema       contemplates for a moment
15:27 ashimema         this feels like another case of perhaps we should be rethinking support for nesting such an element
15:26 ashimema         grr
15:26 ashimema         so needs thinking about for the nesting case
15:26 ashimema         damn
15:26 ashimema         ah.. yes
15:26 ashimema         jhaha.. there's always a but
15:26 oleonard         Not good on a white background... https://snipboard.io/g3579J.jpg
15:25 ashimema         my brain stalled when I tried..
15:25 oleonard         ashimema: However...
15:25 ashimema         do you think it's achievable?
15:25 ashimema         🙂
15:18 oleonard         I like that one ashimema
14:36 huginn`          04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=31759 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Tabs vs Pills
14:36 ashimema         I just added another mockup to bug 31759 if people are interested.. not sure how to achieve it but I like the look
14:35 ashimema         I'll ask around
14:35 ashimema         Nicole I think isn't likely to know.. I think it's a relic from migrating from another software tool she used..
14:27 caroline         For the images thing, maybe ask ppl who were there at the beginning? I know nicole is the one who did most of the manual at first, maybe someone who worked with her would know
14:23 ashimema         hehe
14:22 caroline         I was doing that while in a conference last week (#sorrynotsorry but not all talks were interesting lol)
14:21 ashimema         I had entirely not thought about that
14:21 ashimema         ooh.. thanks for taking on the tools > cataloging manual change..
14:20 ashimema         that's how the automated google doc to rst conversion spat it out.
14:19 ashimema         at the moment it just direct links to the images and skips the images.rst file bit entirely
14:19 ashimema         well.. the erm merge I just did does it a little differently.. and that's something we're working to get more community like..
14:19 caroline         I've seen some cases but there aren't that many.
14:18 ashimema         feels a little odd to need to reference an image twice.. I'd imagine it would be better to crosslink to the definitive description of whatever it was the image is showing
14:18 ashimema         I don't really see any cases where we use the same image twice.. but I've probably just not been looking very hard
14:18 ashimema         interesting
14:16 caroline         No idea. It was like this when I started and it never was explained... I thought it was to be able to reuse the same image in various places, but the way it was done the same image had different aliases (I've been trying to consolidate those and also the one that are *almost* the same)
14:06 ashimema         with an alias.. I don't really understand it..
14:06 ashimema         i.e. rather than referencing them directly we add them to another file that lists a tonne of images and then reference that?
14:05 ashimema         is there a reason we do it the way we do ?
14:05 ashimema         I also wanted to ask you about images..
13:59 ashimema         🙂
13:58 caroline         sure no problem
13:58 ashimema         Lucy is keen to help refine them but to do so following the standard process she needs the automated stuff I created merged.. would it be ok for me to merge that and then she can clean up on top?
13:57 ashimema         I was going to ask about merging in the erm docs we've written
13:57 caroline         ashimema, I just came in, what's up?
13:56 huginn`          04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=31908 major, P5 - low, ---, m.de.rooy, Needs Signoff , New login fails while having cookie from previous session
13:56 marcelr          title changed bug 31908
13:48 marcelr          the bug title could still improve btw
13:45 huginn`          04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=31908 major, P5 - low, ---, m.de.rooy, Needs Signoff , Context accessed but not always set on mainpage.pl
13:45 marcelr          kidclamp: new patch on bug 31908, please test
13:45 marcelr          o/
13:15 tcohen           :-D
13:15 tcohen           welcome, PedroAmorim[m]
13:14 ashimema         caroline or davidnind around yet?
12:26 magnuse          PedroAmorim[m]: welcome from norway
11:48 PedroAmorim[m]   ashimema: Yes that is correct! Happy to be able to contribute and be part of this. It's truly a privilege. Thank you!
11:45 oleonard         Hi PedroAmorim[m], welcome!
11:32 paulderscheid[m] * Congrats 🎉
11:32 paulderscheid[m] Gongrats 🎉
11:31 ashimema         So, Pedro is joining PTFS-E full time from January and has been doing a few contracts including helping on erm..  so great to have you joining the team Pedro
11:22 ashimema         Hi Pedro
11:22 PedroAmorim[m]   hi
11:10 tcohen           hola #koha
11:05 schnyd           OpenSSL version: OpenSSL 1.1.1f  31 Mar 2020
11:05 schnyd           CPython version: 3.8.10
11:05 schnyd           docker-py version: 4.1.0
11:05 schnyd           docker-compose version 1.25.0, build unknown
11:05 schnyd           tuxayo: root@ubuntu-s-2vcpu-4gb-sgp1-01:~# docker-compose version
10:32 ashimema         caroline around
10:22 ashimema         needs some reviewing and markup may need some correcting as I used pandoc to convert from google doc to docx to rst and then only did a littel manual intervention to make it fit our repo a bit better.
10:22 ashimema         erm docs submitted: https://gitlab.com/koha-community/koha-manual/-/merge_requests/598
09:50 paulderscheid[m] e.g. like TypeScript
09:43 paulderscheid[m] For me personally it'd help working with dbi
09:42 paulderscheid[m] Want to catch type mismatch at compile time rather than ending up with weirdness on runtime.
09:40 Joubu            why would you that?
09:39 paulderscheid[m] Does anyone know an easy solution for stricter type checking in perl?
08:56 paulderscheid[m] Morning #koha
08:38 ashimema         There are also individual developers that may be able to help of course, Joubu who answered above being one.  All really depends on what you are looking to achieve really. Hope that's helped
08:38 Lee              Thanks
08:35 ashimema         Not sure about emea
08:35 ashimema         PTFS-Europe are UK
08:34 Lee              or EMEA
08:33 Lee              Anyone in the UK then?
08:30 ashimema         I don't see any listed
08:30 ashimema         https://koha-community.org/support/paid-support/country/char/R/#sa
08:28 Lee              Which company in South Africa handles this so i can contact them
08:28 ashimema         What are you looking for Lee,, Koha is open source and community 'owned'.. there are support companies in various countries that distribute and support Koha
08:27 Lee              We are looking at ways to intergrate with our library system
08:23 Joubu            Lee: Hi, nobody, what's your request exactly?
08:16 Lee              Good day, I am writing to you  from an Edtech company called Snapplify and I am looking for the person at Koha that is responsible for partnerships
06:35 Joubu            ...but?
06:27 dcook            Just a few more fixes I think then the first level of testing should be good. A bit concerned that people are marking it Signed Off when they're not testing all the features but..
06:26 huginn`          04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=31378 new feature, P5 - low, ---, agustinmoyano, Failed QA , Add a generic OAuth2/OIDC client implementation
06:26 dcook            bug 31378 is certainly coming along
05:54 reiveune         hello
05:26 huginn`          Joubu: The operation succeeded.
05:26 Joubu            @later tell tcohen "Current branch erm is up to date." - it was rebased already, did you forget to fetch?