Time  Nick             Message
06:57 alex_            Bonjour
06:57 wahanui          que tal, alex_
07:06 cait1            good morning #koha
07:06 ashimema         morning cait1
07:06 cait1            :)
07:06 paulderscheid[m] Morning #koha, morning cait1
07:07 ashimema         It's Friday 😄
07:07 ashimema         morning paulderscheid
07:07 cait1            guten Morgen paulderscheid[m] :)
07:09 ashimema         question.. in German, do you generally always use the long hand 'guten Morgen' or is it acceptable and understood to just say 'Morgen' ?
07:09 paulderscheid[m] That depends
07:09 cait1            yeah it depends
07:10 ashimema         ha.. fair
07:10 cait1            it's more colloquial i'd say? explaining German is like.. hard
07:11 paulderscheid[m] You can use 'Morgen' in a certain tone if you don't want to be talked to
07:11 ashimema         I tend to follow-up with 'Sprechen Sie Englisch' as my German stretches littel beyond the very basics..
07:11 ashimema         but still
07:11 ashimema         oh really.. that's interesting
07:11 cait1            well, that's pretty great already :)
07:11 ashimema         in general the tone of 'Morning' in the UK is up beat and is a short hand
07:12 cait1            but you can say it friendly too
07:12 paulderscheid[m] Yeah
07:12 paulderscheid[m] There is nuance
07:12 ashimema         haha.. 'Ich möchte...' followed by pointing and 'Danke' is about as much as my brain remembers at the minute
07:13 ashimema         two years of secondary school german and those are the man bits that stuck ☹️
07:13 ashimema         not great aye
07:13 paulderscheid[m] Many germans automatically switch to english if they hear an accent
07:13 ashimema         yeah.. it makes us english even more lazy ☹️
07:13 ashimema         myself included
07:13 cait1            ashimema: you should come and visit sometime with the family .... we'll practice :)
07:14 cait1            and lots of campsites around the lake
07:14 paulderscheid[m] I often hear that it's hard for native english speakers to practice their german because of this
07:14 ashimema         though I did end up having a challenging chat with a 7 year old german boy whilst washing up at the campsite last week ;')
07:14 ashimema         between my bad german and his little english it was hilarious
07:15 ashimema         yeah.. I find that in most countries people fall back to english very quickly
07:15 paulderscheid[m] I'm guilty of that myself
07:15 paulderscheid[m] I'm not a patient person
07:16 ashimema         I managed to practice some french a fair bit but they tend to fall back too now.. the current generation are a lot more forgiving and love seeing people try.
07:16 ashimema         I picked up a fair bit of Chinese when I spend a few months there... pretty much no-one spoke english when I travelled there over a decade ago
07:16 paulderscheid[m] My cousins in Montpellier couldn't speak english to save their lives so that's always a good opportunity
07:18 ashimema         Korean was plain too hard for my brain to comprehend though.. that one I ended up just using the translation gadget all the time
07:18 ashimema         long before google translate though.. translations were hilarious...
07:19 paulderscheid[m] I get that
07:20 fridolin         > You can use 'Morgen' in a certain tone if you don't want to be talked to
07:20 paulderscheid[m] Sorry to bring work back into the mix, but yesterday I had a problem when using the upgrade hook in a plugin. It just failed whenever I used it, even... (full message at https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/mInREKiCdMilqIMbReHEMASv)
07:20 fridolin         In french same, you can say 'Bonjour' or shortly '...jour'
07:24 ashimema         oh really.. I'd never have considered shortening 'Good day' to 'day'..
07:24 ashimema         that 'feels weird' in english.. haha
07:25 ashimema         "G'day" maybe.. haha
07:25 ashimema         hmm
07:25 fridolin         like "'sup"
07:25 fridolin         for wats up
07:25 ashimema         make sense
07:26 ashimema         so what about upgrade wasn't working paulderscheid
07:28 paulderscheid[m] After restarting plack it just errors out if I use the hook. But in the logs it only says that the compilation failed.
07:29 paulderscheid[m] Even if upgrade just returns true.
07:29 ashimema         oh weird.. compilation failure is strange
07:29 ashimema         have you 'perl -c YourModule.pm'
07:29 ashimema         just to spot any obvious compilation issues
07:30 paulderscheid[m] Yeah but the problem is that it stops at Plugin Base being empty.
07:30 ashimema         had a feeling you might say that ☹️
07:31 cait1            fridolin: the most amazing French thing for me still is camenbert diagrams )
07:31 paulderscheid[m] I tried to spot any errors with perlcritic on brutal but there is nothing
07:32 cait1            fridolin: for everyone else it's cake, for French it's cheese :)
07:32 fridolin         ahah :D
07:32 paulderscheid[m] Other plugins don't have that problem on the instance I test
07:32 paulderscheid[m] s/test/tested on/
07:32 fridolin         bar diagrams are wine diagrams maybe ^^
07:34 ashimema         in english it's pie
07:35 ashimema         and pie's tend to be more savoury than sweet
07:36 cait1            but ther eis apple pie...
07:36 cait1            :)
07:36 ashimema         indeed
07:36 ashimema         it's not a given
07:36 cait1            typical Friday
07:36 ashimema         in other news.. I just got my 'TrustedSelfCheckout' stuff to work...
07:37 ashimema         this is gonna need some serious Testing/QA and a fair bit of tidy up..
07:37 ashimema         but.. it's a pretty cool feature
07:43 fridolin         Apfelstrudel diagrams ^^
07:56 paxed            why is it even possible to install koha without plack, if code written and run without plack can fail in incomprehensible ways under plack?
07:56 ashimema         ?
07:56 ashimema         I run my dev env without plack all the time..
07:56 ashimema         it's slow as a dog, but I've never really noticed any horrible failures?
07:57 paxed            variable scoping is different under plack
07:57 ashimema         yes, indeed it is
07:57 paxed            you need to pass all the damn variables as params.
07:58 ashimema         what exactly are you seeing?
07:59 paxed            not real code obviously, but this should show it: my $foo = "foo"; sub blah { warn "foo is:$foo"; } blah();
08:00 ashimema         that should work
08:00 paxed            without plack: foo is "foo" in blah, under plack: foo is undefined in blah.
08:01 * ashimema       dives into a meeting he's late for.. sorry
08:01 paxed            yeap, no biggie, i'm off to summer vacay today. i'm sure to completely forget about this and get bitten about it again when i come back ... ;)
08:14 cait1            @seen liliputech
08:14 huginn           cait1: liliputech was last seen in #koha 1 day, 0 hours, 46 minutes, and 28 seconds ago: <liliputech> morgen cait1 and paulderscheid[m] :)
08:14 cait1            liliputech++
08:38 magnuse          ashimema++ for trustedselfcheckout etc
08:46 ashimema         🙂
09:32 tcohen           morning
09:34 ashimema         mornin'
09:42 tcohen           o/
09:43 * tcohen         just got back with some warm herbs infusion
09:43 cait1            early tcohen!
09:43 tcohen           Yeah, I leave for a long weekend trip early today, so online earlier to get some things done heh
10:49 oleonard         Hi all
11:18 oleonard         tuxayo around?
12:00 domm[m]          Can somebody explain why IndependentBranches has to "be set before going live and that it NOT be changed"?
12:03 cait1            i think maybe something about interactions that wuld be left invalid
12:03 cait1            like a hold that will never be filed or such
12:03 cait1            there wassome more info on the bug that added the note IIRC
12:06 domm[m]          ok, so not some core changes to the actual data/database
12:08 ashimema         nope
12:08 ashimema         more that expectations would not be correct
12:09 oleonard         No good info on Bug 27798, but this comment in the IRC logs: "largely it was that many unexpected things stop working. I think holds was the large one, but it affects more than expected"
12:09 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27798 normal, P5 - low, ---, kyle, CLOSED FIXED, Independent branches should have a warning
12:09 oleonard         (from kidclamp)
12:12 oleonard         @later tell Joubu Were you able to get serial claims filtering by date working in Bug 30718? It didn't work for me.
12:12 huginn           oleonard: The operation succeeded.
12:28 domm[m]          Is it possible to have different values for LOC (or use a different list) for 952$c, depending on the homebranch of the item?
12:30 oleonard         domm[m]: Authorized values can have library limitations
12:31 domm[m]          Ah, great, thanks, now I see it :-)
13:04 domm[m]          I see there is a docker-compose.es7.yml in koha-testing-docker. What is the timeline for switching to ES7? As we're soon starting to implement a geosearch, should we target ES6 or ES7?
13:07 cait1            bweare... the limitations also affect the advanced search afaik
13:08 cait1            bug 25439 shoudl show the status
13:08 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25439 critical, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , [Omnibus] Prepare Koha to ElasticSearch 7 - ES7
13:08 cait1            it looks like all dpeendent bugs have been marked resolved
13:12 domm[m]          ok, so this seems that ES7 will be the default soon? 22.11? Or will multiple version be supported?
13:26 cait1            domm[m]: tuxayo worked a lot on those, he might now for sure
13:26 cait1            I am not sure what the 'official' guideline is
13:26 cait1            if you look at the versions of those bugs, a lot seeem to be in older versions already
13:26 cait1            backported
13:27 cait1            so we seem to expect people are using 7 already
13:48 cait1            oleonard: the missing required on the article request form
13:48 cait1            it shows below the form fields - should it do that or better behind the field?
13:49 oleonard         It must admit had to double-check, but that's the way it is on other forms too
13:49 cait1            ok, thx :)
13:59 ashimema         is there a reason we display cardnumber/userid instead of name when logged into the staff client?
13:59 cait1            maybe length
13:59 cait1            userid is often smething short, whle a name can be quite long
13:59 ashimema         true
14:00 ashimema         but we don't apply the same logic to branch or cash register there
14:00 cait1            hm?
14:00 cait1            cash register is usually something short i'd think... or you couldmake it short
14:00 * ashimema       is looking at the new UI and notes it now puts 'cardnumber' above 'branchname'.. and if you have a cash register is then adds `| register name` next to it center aligned
14:00 ashimema         that looks a bit weird to me
14:01 cait1            yeah, cardnumer is not good
14:01 cait1            noone knows their cardnumber
14:01 ashimema         branch is often fairly long
14:01 cait1            the whole design on top needs to be rethought
14:01 ashimema         I'd rather use patron-title.inc passing in the 'short'
14:01 cait1            there is lots of prefs that add stuff there too
14:01 cait1            we need to spend more 'space'
14:01 cait1            but there is no short form for german double names
14:02 cait1            and you could easily have several smiths müllers etc
14:02 ashimema         true
14:02 cait1            userid was/is a good compromise for staff accounts
14:02 ashimema         fair enough
14:03 ashimema         how about taking a leaf out of googles book and putting a users avatar instead
14:04 oleonard         That would require that everyone have an avatar
14:04 ashimema         they fall back to first initial and a random generated color
14:04 ashimema         we could do similar
14:04 ashimema         it would encourage photo id's 😜
14:05 oleonard         The trouble with random generated color is that it's not easy to recognize in the context of, "Am I logged in correctly or not?"
14:06 ashimema         I'm still torn on the search stuff.. I have no idea how to make that nicer
14:06 ashimema         is that something your working on?
14:06 cait1            yeah andphotos are a data privacy issue
14:06 cait1            don't wnat to go there here
14:06 ashimema         well I say 'random'.. it's random but generated from your own details.. so assuming you don't change your name the color stays consistent for you
14:06 cait1            i tihnk we should not discuss saving even more space... but make sure all works
14:07 cait1            intranetnav
14:07 cait1            teh new library pull down
14:07 cait1            the added search option pull down
14:07 cait1            those are all prefs
14:07 ashimema         new library pulldown?
14:07 cait1            yeah
14:07 cait1            youcan now have a library pull down added in staff too
14:07 cait1            it's a recent addition
14:08 cait1            behind simple search form, like in the opac
14:08 cait1            this all needs room
14:09 oleonard         ashimema: I feel like decisions were made about how to change the originally accepted design which were not discussed. For instance, I'm confused by staff home page being back to the same layout. What happened to the circles?
14:09 cait1            there was a commen ton that from Julian I tihnk
14:09 cait1            on the bug
14:09 oleonard         I think the circles didn't really work, so I don't have a problem with it, but I'm confused by the decision-making process.
14:10 * ashimema       didn't like the circles
14:10 ashimema         yeah.. I agree..
14:10 ashimema         I'm happy to see that change, but agree I have no idea how the decision was made
14:10 * ashimema       can't find a pref to enable a branch pulldown
14:11 cait1            +        console.log("TEST: " + PhoneNotification ); < debugging code or can stay?
14:12 ashimema         wow.. IntranetNav goes in a really weird place.. and is black text on a black background by default
14:12 oleonard         cait1: Bad
14:12 ashimema         looks like debugging code to me cait1
14:13 oleonard         jajm around?
14:14 oleonard         ashimema: IntranetNav is not well thought out
14:15 oleonard         (in general)
14:15 ashimema         true
14:15 ashimema         I thought I'd see what it does
14:15 cait1            ok, I'll add a comment thx :)
14:15 ashimema         appears to assume you know to put it in an '<li>'
14:15 cait1            i thin it does that onw too
14:15 ashimema         indeed
14:16 ashimema         not well documented
14:16 oleonard         ashimema: I works great if you know how to use Bootstrap menu markup XD
14:16 ashimema         hehe
14:16 ashimema         yeah.. I think it's not a bug with the new UI.. bug between screen and keyboard 😜
14:17 oleonard         It should be more user-friendly. Like offering to accept a list of links and automatically format it into a menu
14:18 ashimema         indeed.. that would be nice
14:18 cait1            but please make sure ther eis enough room
14:18 cait1            libraries love using it
14:18 ashimema         with the new ui.. i do feel like the least we could do is set the text to default to white
14:18 ashimema         right now it's black on black
14:18 cait1            and especially as a one click fast thing
14:19 oleonard         I think it should be automatically made into a dropdown menu, so I guess that conflicts with your one-click concept cait
14:19 ashimema         ah.. it's OK so long as it's in an achor
14:20 ashimema         I image it would be simple enough to make it a quick link if only one link is added and a dropdown if more than one is?
14:21 oleonard         If we can dream it we can do it
14:24 ashimema         lol, bug 12688
14:24 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12688 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, CLOSED WORKSFORME, Better IntranetNav
14:25 cait1            ashimema: they have more than one...
14:25 ashimema         perhaps just having clear documentation with the preference would be better...
14:25 ashimema         indeed
14:25 ashimema         they wanted side by side instead of menu
14:25 cait1            a menu again saves on space... but it also limites use more
14:25 cait1            right now you can put links
14:25 cait1            form fields
14:25 cait1            etc.
14:26 ashimema         so in reality we can't easily do magic.. right now it's as flexible as it possibly could be.. but we could do better by documenting how to make it look like x, y or z.
14:26 cait1            if we add a lot of automation, it will also limit what you can do
14:26 ashimema         exactly
14:26 cait1            that's what I am thinking
14:26 wahanui          i guess thinking is so much easier
14:26 oleonard         wahanui: Who told you that?
14:26 wahanui          oleonard: wish i knew
14:28 lukeg            hi
14:28 wahanui          privet, lukeg
14:28 cait1            hm pretty sure that one iddn't go through QA! :) Bug 24857: No words
14:28 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24857 new feature, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Pushed to master , Add ability to group items for records
14:29 cait1            commit title
14:30 ashimema         I think it changed somewhat with rebases and things
14:31 ashimema         right.. I think I'm going to call it a day and spend some time with the kids
14:32 ashimema         have a good weekend #koha
14:33 cait1            you too!
14:55 cait1            hm this looks odd:
14:55 cait1            +                                                                [% IF ( itemLoo.itemlost == 1 || itemLoo.itemlost == 2 ) %] [%# FIXME Why only for 1 or 2? Shouldn't we test for withdrawn as well? %]
14:55 cait1            <span class="lost">Unavailable (lost or missing)</span>
14:55 cait1            [% END %]
14:55 cait1            should we not just do >0?
14:55 cait1            and display the LOST description?
15:04 cait1            koha... never stops to surprise :)
15:10 cait1            I filed it
15:30 cait1            have a nice weekend #koha!
16:22 ashimema         * Also need to check new staff UI for mobile view..
18:52 paulderscheid[m] Have a nice weekend #koha
20:19 tuxayo           Hi :)
20:19 tuxayo           does Offline circulation works for anyone?
20:29 tuxayo           (checkout)