Time Nick Message 04:46 philor even though it's The Koha Way to never change bad defaults, only add preferences to allow for individually changing them, if adding the preference accidentally changes the default and nobody notices for 4 years, does The Koha Way no longer apply? 04:49 philor wups, only 3.3 years, I might have to keep quiet until the Four Year Rule applies 08:55 ashimema QA are only human philor 09:18 philor ashimema: I don't fault QA for missing the bustage, nor do I fault the patch author for not realizing that he couldn't test for a preference being undefined because QA was going to add a database update to define it as a followup 09:20 philor what I fault is The Koha Way of fixing a bad default by adding a preference to choose absolutely any other value as the default, if you know the preference even exists, and if all 14 of your libraries can agree on a different value 09:20 ashimema No worries.. 09:21 ashimema We do change defaults for new installs.. we don't change defaults behind the scenes so we don't change what people want.. 09:22 ashimema I suppose the onboarding could list changed defaults and ask.. but then, is the administrator who does an upgrade the right person ask ask about changed defaults? 09:22 philor nope 09:22 ashimema If you have a suggestion on how to do better I think people would be happy to give it a go. 09:22 ashimema It bugs me too btw 09:23 ashimema But I've never managed to come up with a better alternative 09:24 philor the only one I have is the one that consumer software uses: if you picked a bad default, and you realize it's a bad default and something else would be better, switch the default to the better thing 15:26 oleonard_ What was that about? 15:59 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_U18 build #298: SUCCESS in 39 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_U18/298/ 16:02 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #371: SUCCESS in 42 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/371/ 16:06 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D9 build #302: SUCCESS in 45 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D9/302/ 16:10 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed! 16:10 wahanui Congratulations! 16:10 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_U16 build #54: FIXED in 49 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_U16/54/ 16:17 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_U20 build #196: SUCCESS in 56 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_U20/196/ 16:35 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D10 build #137: SUCCESS in 36 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D10/137/ 17:01 philor cataloging trivia, the default value for place of publication in 008, in this case 17:03 philor the fact that "leave it like it always was by default, add a pref to make it better" means that I will never see it better in production, in general 17:25 oleonard philor: What is the problem? 17:25 wahanui the problem is it has several code issues 17:28 oleonard wahanui: forget the problem 17:28 wahanui oleonard: I forgot problem 17:29 oleonard wahanui: The problem is time travel hasn't been invented. 17:29 wahanui OK, oleonard. 17:30 philor both correct answers 17:31 philor current problem? https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27738 is a daring proposal to fix a bug by going to a new default value rather than by going back to a badly-chosen default value 17:31 huginn Bug 27738: normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Fix fallback for unset DefaultCountryField008 system preference 17:32 philor instead of that being a daring proposal, it should be normalized behavior, so that by default Koha makes good choices rather than making whatever choice it made once upon a time 17:34 oleonard So you propose to change the fallback to "|||" ? 17:34 philor or, my general problem? changing a pref requires either a supermajority or an executive order, and my party (of one) doesn't control the executive branch or have a supermajority, so "add a pref" is exactly the same as "don't fix it" 17:34 philor yes 17:37 oleonard Has there been a discussion on the Koha mailing list about making this change? 17:39 philor not that I know of, the discussion of xxu in bug 13912 is all I've seen 17:39 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13912 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, josef.moravec, CLOSED FIXED, Add syspref for default place of publication (country code) for field 008, range 15-17 17:41 oleonard philor: You seem to be assuming that you'd get pushback on your proposal, but I don't see why 18:22 philor how does changing an existing translatable string work? 18:23 philor I just change https://github.com/Koha-Community/Koha/blob/6bd75d6dcaf77a7d5b11c1eabcbdb17ae0f6e12a/koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/admin/preferences/cataloguing.pref#L66 and the translation tooling notices it changed and presents that fact to translators? 18:26 tuxayo philor: hi :) 18:26 philor tuxayo: hey! 18:27 tuxayo IIUC a string (the old one) will disappear from the pool of strings to translate and a new string (the changed version) will appear in the translatable strings. 21:50 Awazez Hi everyone ! I'm trying to delete a library and the system says "This library cannot be deleted. Patrons or items are still using it." 21:50 Awazez What does this means ? 21:51 cait that you have items or patrons with this library :) 21:52 cait as it say 21:52 cait s 21:52 Awazez Thx