Time  Nick         Message
04:46 philor       even though it's The Koha Way to never change bad defaults, only add preferences to allow for individually changing them, if adding the preference accidentally changes the default and nobody notices for 4 years, does The Koha Way no longer apply?
04:49 philor       wups, only 3.3 years, I might have to keep quiet until the Four Year Rule applies
08:55 ashimema     QA are only human philor
09:18 philor       ashimema: I don't fault QA for missing the bustage, nor do I fault the patch author for not realizing that he couldn't test for a preference being undefined because QA was going to add a database update to define it as a followup
09:20 philor       what I fault is The Koha Way of fixing a bad default by adding a preference to choose absolutely any other value as the default, if you know the preference even exists, and if all 14 of your libraries can agree on a different value
09:20 ashimema     No worries..
09:21 ashimema     We do change defaults for new installs.. we don't change defaults behind the scenes so we don't change what people want..
09:22 ashimema     I suppose the onboarding could list changed defaults and ask.. but then, is the administrator who does an upgrade the right person ask ask about changed defaults?
09:22 philor       nope
09:22 ashimema     If you have a suggestion on how to do better I think people would be happy to give it a go.
09:22 ashimema     It bugs me too btw
09:23 ashimema     But I've never managed to come up with a better alternative
09:24 philor       the only one I have is the one that consumer software uses: if you picked a bad default, and you realize it's a bad default and something else would be better, switch the default to the better thing
15:26 oleonard_    What was that about?
15:59 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_U18 build #298: SUCCESS in 39 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_U18/298/
16:02 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #371: SUCCESS in 42 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/371/
16:06 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D9 build #302: SUCCESS in 45 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D9/302/
16:10 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
16:10 wahanui      Congratulations!
16:10 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_U16 build #54: FIXED in 49 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_U16/54/
16:17 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_U20 build #196: SUCCESS in 56 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_U20/196/
16:35 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D10 build #137: SUCCESS in 36 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D10/137/
17:01 philor       cataloging trivia, the default value for place of publication in 008, in this case
17:03 philor       the fact that "leave it like it always was by default, add a pref to make it better" means that I will never see it better in production, in general
17:25 oleonard     philor: What is the problem?
17:25 wahanui      the problem is it has several code issues
17:28 oleonard     wahanui: forget the problem
17:28 wahanui      oleonard: I forgot problem
17:29 oleonard     wahanui: The problem is time travel hasn't been invented.
17:29 wahanui      OK, oleonard.
17:30 philor       both correct answers
17:31 philor       current problem? https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27738 is a daring proposal to fix a bug by going to a new default value rather than by going back to a badly-chosen default value
17:31 huginn       Bug 27738: normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Fix fallback for unset DefaultCountryField008 system preference
17:32 philor       instead of that being a daring proposal, it should be normalized behavior, so that by default Koha makes good choices rather than making whatever choice it made once upon a time
17:34 oleonard     So you propose to change the fallback to "|||" ?
17:34 philor       or, my general problem? changing a pref requires either a supermajority or an executive order, and my party (of one) doesn't control the executive branch or have a supermajority, so "add a pref" is exactly the same as "don't fix it"
17:34 philor       yes
17:37 oleonard     Has there been a discussion on the Koha mailing list about making this change?
17:39 philor       not that I know of, the discussion of xxu in bug 13912 is all I've seen
17:39 huginn       Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13912 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, josef.moravec, CLOSED FIXED, Add syspref for default place of publication (country code) for field 008, range 15-17
17:41 oleonard     philor: You seem to be assuming that you'd get pushback on your proposal, but I don't see why
18:22 philor       how does changing an existing translatable string work?
18:23 philor       I just change https://github.com/Koha-Community/Koha/blob/6bd75d6dcaf77a7d5b11c1eabcbdb17ae0f6e12a/koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/admin/preferences/cataloguing.pref#L66 and the translation tooling notices it changed and presents that fact to translators?
18:26 tuxayo       philor: hi :)
18:26 philor       tuxayo: hey!
18:27 tuxayo       IIUC a string (the old one) will disappear from the pool of strings to translate and a new string (the changed version) will appear in the translatable strings.
21:50 Awazez       Hi everyone ! I'm trying to delete a library and the system says "This library cannot be deleted. Patrons or items are still using it."
21:50 Awazez       What does this means ?
21:51 cait         that you have items or patrons with this library :)
21:52 cait         as it say
21:52 cait         s
21:52 Awazez       Thx