Time  Nick                  Message
19:10 caroline              Somebody pinged me earlier? Sorry, I was doing a training
16:57 ashimema[m]           if anyone fancies checking my work on https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Word_usage_-_A-Z (doing it there before moving it accross to https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Terminology
16:57 * ashimema[m]         is heading for dinner now
16:56 talljoy               indeed.
16:56 philor                the first-time experience merging authorities with LinkerModule: FirstMatch is... startling
16:55 * philor              takes several deep breaths
16:41 cait                  yay!
16:40 lisettelatah          I got my devbox working again just in time for Kohathon tomorrow.
16:40 cait                  hi lisettelatah!
16:40 lisettelatah          Hello all
16:35 ashimema[m]           it's in the right order for me.. but looking at the irc logs it's reverse it!
16:35 cait                  once
16:35 ashimema[m]           stupid irc client
16:35 cait                  don't worry.... i guess we all had that meeting ones
16:35 ashimema[m]           crap :(
16:35 huginn                Log:            http://meetings.koha-community.org/2020/development_irc_meeting_22_april_2020.2020-04-22-16.32.log.html
16:35 huginn                Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2020/development_irc_meeting_22_april_2020.2020-04-22-16.32.txt
16:35 huginn                Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community.org/2020/development_irc_meeting_22_april_2020.2020-04-22-16.32.html
16:35 huginn                Meeting ended Wed Apr 22 16:33:08 2020 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
16:33 Joubu                 #endmeeting
16:33 Joubu                 #info Next meeting: 6 May 2020, 19 UTC
16:32 Joubu                 #info the logs of this meeting are at http://irc.koha-community.org/koha/2020-04-22#i_2239112
16:32 Joubu                 #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Development_IRC_meeting_22_April_2020
16:32 huginn                The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_22_april_2020'
16:32 huginn                Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
16:32 huginn                Meeting started Wed Apr 22 16:32:22 2020 UTC.  The chair is Joubu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:32 Joubu                 #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 22 April 2020
16:19 cait                  we could still link ot the irc log, but do we need to start/end another for the script?
16:19 cait                  ohoh
16:19 Joubu                 we don't have log
16:19 Joubu                 you messed with the #startmeeting
16:19 ashimema[m]           seafood pasta
16:18 ashimema[m]           thanks everyone
16:18 cait                  what's for dinner ashimema[m]?
16:18 * cait                is hungry too
16:18 ashimema[m]           #endmeeting
16:18 Joubu                 go for it
16:18 * ashimema[m]         is getting hungry
16:18 ashimema[m]           ok with everyone?
16:17 ashimema[m]           #info Next meeting: 6 May 2020, 19 UTC
16:17 ashimema[m]           oops
16:16 ashimema[m]           myself included :(
16:16 ashimema[m]           because no-one turned up
16:16 ashimema[m]           yup
16:16 Joubu                 last one did not take place
16:16 ashimema[m]           so 19:00 UTC (20:00 in UK, 07:00 In NZ and 15:00 in USA(ish))
16:15 cait                  we should keep rotating
16:15 cait                  3 am?
16:14 cait                  really bad for nz at this slot
16:14 ashimema[m]           I tend to stick early more recently.. the later one seems to genreally not be well attended
16:13 ashimema[m]           early or late slot?
16:13 amoyano               yes
16:13 cait                  yup
16:12 ashimema[m]           6th May suit people?
16:11 ashimema[m]           #topic Set time of next meeting
16:11 ashimema[m]           #topic
16:11 cait                  i think noone disagrees with staff interface (or i missed it?)
16:11 ashimema[m]           or can I move on
16:11 ashimema[m]           any more to talk about this?
16:11 cait                  move on?
16:10 ashimema[m]           perhaps our mediawiki requires an extra click.. redirect don't generally if it's not a disambiguation page.
16:09 ashimema[m]           fair enough
16:09 cait                  if we keep temrinology in most cases
16:09 cait                  i know, but one click less
16:08 ashimema[m]           with a re-direct in place it should be transparent
16:08 cait                  just use the style and new additions look good too
16:08 cait                  keeps the link sintact
16:08 talljoy               good morning
16:08 cait                  maybe easier yes
16:08 Joubu                 sounds better to keep the old one
16:08 ashimema[m]           me too ;)
16:08 Joubu                 or the other way around?
16:08 cait                  note: terminology is referred int he coding guidelines
16:08 ashimema[m]           #action Martin Renvoize will merge the old terminology page into the new words page on the wiki
16:07 cait                  i like the styling of the new one
16:07 ashimema[m]           I'm happy to do that
16:07 ashimema[m]           we could merge it into the new one and add a redirect
16:06 ashimema[m]           yup
16:06 cait                  terminology is older i think
16:06 ashimema[m]           #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Word_usage_-_A-Z Words
16:06 ashimema[m]           #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Terminology Terminology
16:05 Joubu                 https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Terminology
16:05 ashimema[m]           I do think we shouldn't have two different wiki pages for terminology thought ;)
16:05 cait                  and staff interface was the better liked
16:05 cait                  we said staff client was acutally incorrect = no client
16:05 ashimema[m]           I am happy to use staff interface personally
16:05 cait                  caroline_catlady: around?
16:05 cait                  hm davidnind might not have made it
16:04 ashimema[m]           #info Terminology: staff client vs staff intranet vs staff interface vs intranet
16:03 ashimema[m]           #topic Review of coding guidelines
16:03 ashimema[m]           I would opt to leave that for the next RM to propose and consider ;)
16:02 ashimema[m]           ensureing the 'Text to go in release notes' box is populated
16:02 ashimema[m]           I've held off being evil about enforcing this, but it would certainly make RM and Docs people's lives simpler
16:01 ashimema[m]           #info Release notes for bugs
16:01 ashimema[m]           ok.. lets move onto
16:01 ashimema[m]           as in.. create a 'holds' table rather than continuing with 'reserves' and 'Koha::Holds' as two different things
16:01 cait                  i think 'holds'
16:01 Joubu                 ok nevermind
16:00 tcohen                gotta run
16:00 Joubu                 what means creating new tables?
16:00 tcohen                and as a dev this are the things that take most of the time, thinking how to do it in a consistent and productive way
16:00 ashimema[m]           #action Group to continue discussion out of meeting, but genreally we all agree to the idea of creating clean new tables.
16:00 tcohen                because I see a use for it
16:00 tcohen                the triggers question was not something to implement right now, but a general question
16:00 ashimema[m]           shall we jump to davids topic then
15:59 cait                  holds sig ;)
15:59 ashimema[m]           ok..
15:59 Joubu                 it's hard to imagine how that could be done without the other things (the ones that leave around _fix_priority) moved
15:59 cait                  and see if we can get a group interested to meet up and discussmore deeply
15:59 tcohen                I'm being called for lunch
15:58 tcohen                good idea
15:58 cait                  maybe we should have a pad to gather thorughts on this too?
15:58 Joubu                 so yes we could think how to replace it, but we will certainly face other problematics before
15:58 Joubu                 removing/replacing _fixpriority sounds quite far in the tree
15:57 Joubu                 I think I just don't understand what the next steps are
15:56 tcohen                that's why I raised this discussion to start with
15:56 tcohen                Joubu I don't have the time to do that, but I think it is fairly simple to do. And also, this is the oportunity to find our good/bad patterns and evolve
15:55 ashimema[m]           In Koha::StockRotationStage we use DBIx::Class::Ordered.. I think that approach could work here too?
15:55 tcohen                It is already an ongoing process, right?
15:54 Joubu                 Is your plan to rewrite C4::Reserves?
15:53 tcohen                I mean Koha::Hold->store
15:53 tcohen                and DB triggers seem to be the cleanest way
15:53 tcohen                but we don't have such mechanisms
15:52 tcohen                this would be a callback or something
15:52 tcohen                if I wanted to keep Koha::Hold->clean
15:52 tcohen                it basically calls Koha::Holds->search and does things on the related holds priorities
15:52 cait                  it does the renumbering when people change priority or a hold is filled/cancelled right?
15:52 ashimema[m]           I've not looked at the particular routine yet
15:51 tcohen                the rest of it can just be class regular methods
15:51 cait                  hm can you explain?
15:51 tcohen                I didn't manage to see how to make it fit
15:51 tcohen                is _FixPriorities
15:51 tcohen                and the only thing that doesn't fit our current OO practices
15:51 ashimema[m]           in terms of real world performance I've not really testing if db triggers out perform code level triggers
15:51 tcohen                As I was saying earlier, I spent the weekend reviewing all the weirdness in Reserves + Holds
15:50 ashimema[m]           +1 tcohen
15:50 ashimema[m]           add/maintain
15:50 enkidu                I have not see any better advantage of using postgres
15:50 ashimema[m]           I think we should add triggers at the perl level.. inside dbic classes or koha::objects more likely
15:50 ashimema[m]           if we were using just postgres I would jump at triggers (they can be perl inside the db)
15:50 ashimema[m]           I had issues just getting check constraints to work with mariadb and mysql.. so many issues that I ended up removing them entirely so we're unconstrained.
15:49 tcohen                I will help anyone wanting to support postgres, but I think there are better things to spend the time on
15:49 cait                  :)
15:49 cait                  i think we can't/should not walk in 2 directions at once
15:49 cait                  and the whole idea of the orm was to make us mroe database agnostic some day
15:49 cait                  we already got issues between mariadb and mysql...
15:49 Joubu                 I hope we will support postgres at some ponit
15:48 Joubu                 you can open a transaction, do your stuff or rollback
15:48 tcohen                I don't think we will ever support postgres, so I don't mind that much. I think it really depends on the complexity of the actions carried by those triggers
15:48 ashimema[m]           for db agnostic aims we're better off without db level triggers.
15:47 Joubu                 amoyano: you can to that in perl as well
15:47 cait                  my coworkers stated quite a few times that they think koha db is working as well and stable because we are not using triggers, procedures etc.
15:47 amoyano               pros we can ensure that certain actions are done in a single transaction
15:47 * ashimema[m]         is trying to remain unbiased
15:47 ashimema[m]           any country arguaments to that tcohen?
15:46 cait                  and also yeah, mariadb/mysql... versions... we already got tons of trouble with that
15:46 Joubu                 (and, it's a nightmare to write)
15:46 cait                  they are depending on dbms not as powerful as perl (at least in my sybase experience)
15:45 Joubu                 the cons were that 1. it's not portable (DBMS dependent), and 2. not exported with a dump (and so need additional stuff to backup)
15:45 cait                  to explain behaviour
15:45 cait                  it adds another thing to think of
15:45 tcohen                (no wonder why I got a peak of stress on monday hm)
15:45 cait                  it's not the fun it sounds like
15:45 ashimema[m]           We've generally avoided triggers to date.. I'm not entirely sure why.. is there a historical reason or has it generally been a lack of knowledge?
15:45 cait                  hm i have worked with a really trigger heavy db
15:45 tcohen                I've read the whole Reserves + Holds code this weekend
15:44 Joubu                 IIRC I wanted to use them once, but people disagreed on that
15:44 wahanui               i think tcohen is the man you want to thank
15:44 ashimema[m]           tcohen?
15:44 ashimema[m]           DB Triggers
15:44 ashimema[m]           next point..
15:44 cait                  also for new tables?
15:44 cait                  hm didn't we agree to make ti broader?
15:44 tcohen                I cannot volunteer to write that email today
15:44 ashimema[m]           #action Martin Renvoize Write up a guideline for foreign key field names and distribute it for comment.
15:43 cait                  ashimema[m]: renaming borrowernumber in a report woudl probably cause isuses, it's too many times from different tables :) others would probably work better
15:42 ashimema[m]           brill
15:42 cait                  people will disagree if they hate it i think
15:42 tcohen                *opinions
15:42 cait                  we could write up something an dstill send it to list
15:42 tcohen                I would go for it, unless people want to send an email to gather more opiions on koha-devel
15:41 ashimema[m]           do we want to add an action / vote for that proposal?
15:40 ashimema[m]           I think renaming fields wouldn't be too horrific for reports actually.. I think a db update should be able to catch those
15:40 cait                  maybe not soon, with the reports and all, but sometime
15:40 ashimema[m]           I would be happy to have that as a guidline myself.. I often find myself asking what route I should take with a column name to be consistent.. having a guideline would help with that and we can work towards updating the old field names over time
15:39 tcohen                if we agree on this path, we should end up there soon
15:39 tcohen                yup
15:38 ashimema[m]           so.. as you say.. patron_id in preference to borrowernumber.. and then one day we might have 'patrons' as the table and 'id' as the primary key on it.
15:38 tcohen                \o/
15:38 ashimema[m]           I think we should use intended table names as aposed to existing table names
15:38 cait                  columns i mean?
15:38 cait                  i mean if we name the FK patron_id... shoudl we not do that for new tables as well?
15:38 tcohen                but I've been told several times we should use the related column name
15:37 cait                  i was wondering... why only for the FK?
15:37 tcohen                there's no coding guideline for that
15:37 ashimema[m]           foreign key field names
15:37 tcohen                Joubu I didn't find a real use on the views in the code to 'cheat' (not finish the job)
15:37 ashimema[m]           specific questions you had
15:36 tcohen                +1 # limited and known time
15:36 cait                  and only for a limited time
15:36 ashimema[m]           and use views where needed for report compatability.. but only for reports.
15:35 tcohen                I agree with Joubu, but I think some people communicate well and share where to go
15:35 ashimema[m]           so.. we all think rather than ever adapting the existing tables, where it makes sense we should create a new table and work through as a group to impliment modern best practices using it.
15:35 ashimema[m]           fair
15:35 cait                  I can also see tcohen's point ;)
15:34 ashimema[m]           hehe tochen
15:34 ashimema[m]           I tend to try and keep up with the queue and do an hour or two every morning.. I also lean heavily on the QA team and spend a little less time on personally testing work than some previous RM's.. instead I focused on maintaining close relationships with bug authors so when tests started to fail or we spotted issue I was confident I could go find the person responsible and get help fixing it.
15:34 cait                  harder to keep a consistent... line?
15:34 cait                  i see Joubu's point too
15:33 tcohen                and then discuss this ?
15:33 tcohen                can I ask to follow the agenda
15:33 Joubu                 RM needs an overview of what has been pushed/done/need to be done. Hard to see how you can be 1/4 of the time on it
15:33 tcohen                LOL
15:33 tcohen                ashimema[m] but then Joubu would revert my pushes on his turn
15:32 ashimema[m]           hmm.. RM time really depends on your own individual style.
15:32 ashimema[m]           My alternative for RM proposal.. which I've not fully thought through yet.. was to try and split it with a small group.. say 4 prior RM's each taking a week of duty each month to spread the load a bit
15:31 cait                  ashimema[m]: what's the amount of time you reckon for RM duty atm?
15:31 tcohen                we all know you won't allow us to break things
15:31 cait                  you all just want me to push your stuff and think you'd get favorable treatment ;)
15:30 tcohen                cait++
15:30 ashimema[m]           cait for RM
15:30 tcohen                as I said I started with the idea of using the view, but the result was it was useless
15:30 Joubu                 we need an RM
15:30 cait                  but we got no RM candidate yet
15:30 cait                  yes... we need the RM to agree
15:30 ashimema[m]           we need the next RM on side for that
15:30 ashimema[m]           So we need some working groups to make sure we get such things through in full.. I would happily be part of such an effort
15:30 tcohen                it was easier to make things JOIN the right table with the right where
15:30 cait                  so basically we all agree there? :)
15:29 tcohen                and my conclusion was the the views weren't useful for the codebase
15:29 tcohen                because code speaks
15:29 Joubu                 I would be in favor of a group working at the same time on that, in 10 days it's done. But done for real, not half the way. ie. no more old_reserves ref in the code
15:29 cait                  i think the 'inner workiings' should be finished in a release cycle
15:29 tcohen                I played with this during the weekend
15:29 cait                  for a recent example
15:29 cait                  :(
15:29 cait                  QueryParser (
15:28 cait                  I share that worry sadly, been around for a while to see htat happen
15:28 Joubu                 The views are good for the reports (if really needed), but not to push something that is not completely done, and will never (if not done at the beginning, it will be like you know, all the stuffs we started but never finished)
15:28 cait                  Joubu: so half the way = you favor no views?
15:28 ashimema[m]           I like the idea of having views.. we could make them an option rather than a requirement at time of submission?
15:28 cait                  i have not got there yet, I might hate you a little later :)
15:27 ashimema[m]           I have a feeling all the little accounts fixes I made might have put a few people off having to rework lots of reports ;)
15:27 tcohen                in the case o f the holds table, we tried to also re-think it a bit, so we have completed and completion_date
15:27 Joubu                 I already shared my opinion with Tomas, so will do here. Doing it half the way will let us in this unfinished state for a long time.
15:27 cait                  so they would not be something to keep long-term
15:27 amoyano               we had the fortune that the term reserves is not used anymore, so we could use 'holds' as table name, but having views for old terms is great, because we don't break custom reports
15:27 cait                  ok
15:27 tcohen                I would use the views, with a visible deprecation warning on reports that use the old tables
15:26 ashimema[m]           hope I didn't simplify the idea too much there.. ;)
15:26 cait                  if it's only for the reports
15:25 cait                  I wonder if we could avoid the views even - we have done without for the biblio_metadata change
15:25 tcohen                :-D
15:25 tcohen                thanks ashimema[m]
15:25 ashimema[m]           #info tl:dr Create new tables from scratch using modern best practice, use Views for backwards compatability for reports as a route to migration
15:24 tcohen                are really about archived things
15:24 cait                  and i already have a wish: expiration_date - separte the expiration date picked by the patron from the pickup date
15:24 tcohen                the deleted* tables for biblio and items
15:24 cait                  could you highlight changes?
15:24 tcohen                yeah, I don't think it is exactly the same, but yeah, it is very related
15:24 cait                  i have just checked the kohastructure patch - and it doesn't look so different from before (if at all?)
15:23 ashimema[m]           I hope people have had at least a short moment to take a look at the idea.. I really like the approach
15:23 ashimema[m]           generalised it a bit there tcohen..
15:23 ashimema[m]           #info A new holds table - discussing a different approach to the merging of x + deleted_x/old_x tables.
15:22 ashimema[m]           ok.. lets move on then
15:22 tcohen                Joubu++
15:21 ashimema[m]           Joubu++
15:21 Joubu                 ok, I will create one and share the link
15:21 ashimema[m]           idea.. even
15:21 ashimema[m]           good diea
15:21 tcohen                +1 for the pad
15:20 cait                  was going to ask that :)
15:20 Joubu                 should we start a pad?
15:20 ashimema[m]           any help on that front would be greatfully received.
15:20 cait                  I like the idea, especially if there are changes sys admins need to be aware of, but also for advertising
15:20 ashimema[m]           I totally agree with this, but haven't yet gone through the note to pick out which area's of improvement we should highlight
15:20 ashimema[m]           #info We should have some specific mentions of big changes that have progressed this cycle in the release notes.
15:19 ashimema[m]           lets slot Joubu's one in first whilst I remember it.
15:19 ashimema[m]           #topic General development discussion
15:19 cait                  yes
15:19 ashimema[m]           shall we move on
15:19 ashimema[m]           :)
15:19 cait                  so QA_team++
15:18 ashimema[m]           that's my standpoint anyway
15:18 cait                  a lot of QA is also involved in bug fixing, keeping Jenkins alive... I know it's always a never ending list of tihngs for all of us
15:18 ashimema[m]           but.. to be able to commit to that you need to have the bills paid up first else paying customers have to take priority..
15:17 ashimema[m]           agreed tcohen..
15:17 cait                  helps
15:17 cait                  it's not only the amount, but also being able to come back to things regularly heps
15:17 ashimema[m]           Joonas was a good call for example ;)
15:17 tcohen                In my own case, I would really need to schedule some day to just QA, as doing it in scattered hours only allows me to do small ones
15:17 cait                  i think even an hour dedicated every week consistently could help
15:17 ashimema[m]           I like to try and add one QA person a cycle if I can find a suitable candidate ;)
15:16 Joubu                 not necessarily more, but more active for sure yes
15:16 ashimema[m]           the dashboard is very telling of whose managing to spend time and who isn't ;)
15:16 ashimema[m]           We need more QA persons and we need some of our more experienced one's available more
15:15 * ashimema[m]         is partially hoping to catch some more company high ups in the next few days to try and get more time commited to QA
15:14 cait                  but i think we will have a good one there
15:14 cait                  honestly, we still got a release to finish and polish - everry little bit helps :)
15:14 cait                  you still can... ;)
15:14 tcohen                I would've loved to do more QA, hope the next cycle will be better
15:14 cait                  also for a lot of bug fixing
15:13 ashimema[m]           #info QA has been crazy busy the last few weeks.. we're working hard but the numbers just aren't going down..
15:13 Joubu                 but, you know, I am tired of that
15:13 amoyano               Joubu++
15:13 cait                  Joubu++ :)
15:13 tcohen                Joubu++
15:13 ashimema[m]           Joubu++ for being a QA machine allot this cycle
15:13 cait                  and are not picked up as easily
15:13 cait                  the small stuff moves through fast, but the more complicated ones take longer
15:12 cait                  I tihnk there are actually more 'bigger' features in there than used to
15:12 Joubu                 108 today, I have been QAing big part of my time recently, and the numbers don't go down
15:12 cait                  yes, help :)
15:12 cait                  oh oops sorry
15:12 Joubu                 yes, we need help
15:11 ashimema[m]           any news
15:11 ashimema[m]           cait, cait1, cait2 and cait3 ?
15:11 ashimema[m]           #topic Update from the QA Team
15:11 ashimema[m]           #info The next maintanence release is currently being packaged and will be anounced shortly.. It includes another small number of security patches so please update.
15:10 wahanui               hmmm... rmaints is talljoy, lukeG, hayley
15:10 ashimema[m]           rmaints?
15:10 ashimema[m]           #topic Update from the Release Maintainers
15:10 ashimema[m]           #info What a busy cycle we've had, great work everyone.. keep up the hard work getting the last polish and bugfixes in to make a great release.
15:09 ashimema[m]           #topic Update form the Release Manager
15:09 ashimema[m]           I agree
15:09 ashimema[m]           can we talk about that during general dev discussion in a moment Joubu?
15:09 Joubu                 We should have some doc/advertisement about what has been done this cycle
15:08 Joubu                 We pushed some significant changes this release, technical ones. I think we should have a dedicated part in the release notes about them.
15:08 ashimema[m]           #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Roles_for_20.11 Roles for 20.11
15:08 tcohen                tuxayo++
15:08 ashimema[m]           #info The roles for next cycle page is available on the wiki now.. please add your names :)
15:08 Joubu                 .
15:08 ashimema[m]           #info Maintanence releases are imminent, just waiting on packaging
15:07 cait                  advertise release team? we shoudl have the vote next general meeting
15:07 ashimema[m]           Anyone have any other anouncements?
15:06 ashimema[m]           #info We should all be focusing on bugfixes and last minute polishing at this point.. and planning our next big features and big pushes for the next cycle :)
15:06 ashimema[m]           #info 20.05 Planed release date - Friday 22nd May
15:06 Joubu                 #info Jonathan Druart
15:05 kidclamp              #info Nick Clemens, ByWater Solutions
15:05 ashimema[m]           #info 20.05 String Freeze - Friday 8th May
15:05 ashimema[m]           #info 20.05 Feature Freeze - Friday 1st May
15:05 cait                  we are still looking to fill some roles on the release team
15:04 tcohen                #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Theke Solutions
15:04 ashimema[m]           #info Freeze dates are now in the community calendar.
15:04 ashimema[m]           #topic Announcements
15:04 cait                  [off] 2 many computers and matching mouses in this household right now :)
15:04 ashimema[m]           Right.. lets get this show on the road
15:04 ashimema[m]           [off] lol
15:03 enkidu                :)
15:03 cait                  [off] just spent 10 minutes figuring out why my mouse was not working... (wrong mouse)
15:03 ashimema[m]           [off] /me picks himself up off the floor after tripping over the dog whilst rushing to secure tea
15:02 enkidu                #info Mengü Yazıcıoğlu, Devinim, Turkey
15:02 amoyano               #info Agustin Moyano, Theke Solutions
15:02 thd                   #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
15:01 cait                  #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
15:01 ashimema[m]           #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe
15:01 ashimema[m]           #info Please preceed your name with #info to appear in the minutes
15:01 reiveune              bye
15:01 ashimema[m]           #topic Introductions
15:01 ashimema[m]           #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Development_IRC_meeting_22_April_2020 Agenda
15:00 ashimema[m]           Development IRC meeting 22 April 2020#startmeeting
15:00 kidclamp              caroline_crazycatlady: you still jave the gavel?
14:59 cait                  brb
14:56 huginn                tcohen: leej was last seen in #koha 1 year, 23 weeks, 6 days, 19 hours, 41 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: * LeeJ passes gavel to caroline
14:56 tcohen                @seen leej
14:56 * cait                wonders which cait she is
14:51 cait3                 switching computers brb
14:50 * ashimema[m]         goes to grab a cuppa ready
14:50 ashimema[m]           yup
14:46 cait3                 irc meeting in 15?
14:45 philor                oleonard-away: good idea changing the button text, I knew it was too big but I wanted the result more than I wanted small :)
14:44 huginn                News from kohagit: Bug 25172: Fix Auth_with_ldap.t <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=b50d891c099d0f21f2528c5a6d5bbb586cf1612e>
14:42 ashimema[m]           awesome, thanks dude
14:42 huginn                Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25172 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to master , Koha::Logger init is failing silently
14:42 Joubu                 ashimema[m]: follow-up attached on bug 25172
14:32 caroline_crazycatlady ok, so we can only do batch modifications within an authority type
14:31 caroline_crazycatlady wow we have 4 caits now? are you cloning yourself to get more work done?
14:31 ashimema[m]           :)
14:31 cait3                 got a new vpn client installed (remotely) hoping it will help my disconnect issues
14:31 cait3                 sorry
14:31 ashimema[m]           cait3 now
14:31 cait3                 as that is not in the MARC
14:31 cait3                 i think they still belong the wrong fframework then
14:31 caroline_crazycatlady it's still in the db though
14:30 caroline_crazycatlady I did a try by changing the 150 to a 155 and changing the value of 942a, but my authority record just disappeared... even after reindexing...
14:30 caroline_crazycatlady Is there a way through batch modification to change a topic_term authority record to a genre/form authority record?
14:26 wahanui               niihau, wizzyrea
14:26 wizzyrea              hi
13:00 oleonard              Never mind
13:00 oleonard              Oh shoot I missed that there was a separate bug for addbiblio :(
12:57 huginn                Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25235 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, phil, Needs Signoff , Don't alert when replacing an authority record via Z39.50
12:57 oleonard              philor: I posted a follow-up to Bug 25235, I hope you approve of the changes
12:46 huginn                News from kohagit: Bug 20816: Add ability to define custom templated fields in SIP patron responses <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=41b5db64b352a9cf33595171ca9c2bee70ca4f1a>
12:46 huginn                News from kohagit: Bug 20816: Make SIP tests pass under ES <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=a40ef6ece7211ef139e9440a3022ebda7492ff47>
12:46 huginn                News from kohagit: Bug 16962: Remove the use of "onclick" from serial collection template <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=5f586e3d963be70dc1d3b5f55494f40227e43adf>
12:46 huginn                News from kohagit: Bug 5614: Organize 'patron' system preferences <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=10b60d577053843c2b8935be696ecbf762d7f584>
12:46 huginn                News from kohagit: Bug 25172: Make Koha::Logger explode if init went wrong <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=bfa921665abfc4fcf8c5c3bc5f115769bf2c9f55>
12:46 huginn                News from kohagit: Bug 25172: Remove _recheck_logfile <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=fb9268417bfd9e39f50053e948291c77530609a1>
12:46 huginn                News from kohagit: Bug 25172: Adjust tests <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=16a030ebf64ce2a43af097f235cee1bc78a760e3>
12:46 huginn                News from kohagit: Bug 25172: Identify and display possible problems on the about page <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=7283a3a3e7777b1d34a7bf8c3974a4efc6fbe3d7>
12:46 huginn                News from kohagit: Bug 25186: Fix accordion sections height in columns configuration page <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=74b8c05cfb72146c738d41e88da13346c47d4d22>
12:46 huginn                News from kohagit: Bug 25172: Add missing filter <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=37e6fe6ae59469aeb2078c52b4419c1fe5f3dea8>
12:16 Null404               yes
12:16 Null404               now on test server OPAC is default one
12:16 oleonard              A custom css file?
12:16 Null404               to copy css file from main koha to test one
12:16 Null404               I mean file path location
12:16 Null404               I looking where I can find Css file
12:15 Null404               I think that css on test server wasn't set
12:15 oleonard              Were you having a CSS problem?
12:15 wahanui               i already had it that way, huginn.
12:15 huginn                Null404: I'll give you the answer as soon as RDA is ready
12:15 Null404               @oleonard> yes
12:15 Null404               yes
12:05 Oak                   How is everyone is these strange times.
12:05 Oak                   \o/
12:04 Oak                   magnuse
12:04 magnuse               Oak
11:56 oleonard              Null404 still around?
11:55 oleonard              I have been summoned
11:27 huginn                News from kohagit: Bug 24183: (RM follow-up) Remove re-introduced UseKohaPlugins <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=82090e2673f44aea18a205ee3cf9deb04bd91c80>
11:13 cait1                 bootstrap/css will be the same
11:12 Null404               oh, okay
11:12 Null404               yes
11:12 cait1                 I am not sure, my paths in a dev environment are different from packages
11:11 cait1                 you mean the path?
11:11 cait1                 oleonard is a good person too to ask about the CSS stuf
11:10 huginn                Null404: I suck
11:10 Null404               @cait1 do you know in what catalog I can find this file ?
11:10 cait1                 because apache might be involved in what you see from outside
11:10 cait1                 it might be you just need to copy it on the other server - on theserver it's probably still named opac.css
11:09 Null404               okay so I will look after this css file
11:09 cait1                 oleonard-away: ping?
11:09 cait1                 hm an Owen would be good to have now
11:08 davidnind             :)
11:08 cait1                 davidnind: sleep well!
11:07 cait1                 you might want to compare the 2 opac.css files
11:07 davidnind             right, finished for the evening ... now to see if I wake up in time for the development meeting!
11:07 cait1                 we added the versions to avoid issues with the cache
11:07 cait1                 hm that is to be expected
11:04 Null404               before was "/opac-tmpl/bootstrap/css/opac.css" now is "/opac-tmpl/bootstrap/css/opac_19.1104000.css"
11:03 Null404               hm.. good to know
11:03 davidnind             it also pays to clear the browser cache after an upgrade/update as well, but if you are using a different URL I don't think that will matter
11:02 cait1                 koha standard has no brown, so that is likkely something done for your library
11:01 cait1                 a color might be a good thing to look for
11:01 Null404               okay
11:00 cait1                 use the element inspector see the css it is affected by - and it will also tell you where it pulls that from
11:00 cait1                 hit F12 to get the developer tools open
11:00 cait1                 find soemthing that looks different
11:00 cait1                 what i was going to do is
11:00 cait1                 sorry, timeout :(
10:57 Null404               oh I forgot to add "1" sorry
10:57 Null404               "No such nick/channel: cait"  when I trying /msg cait
10:55 cait1                 we leave the database ones alone
10:55 cait1                 yeah i thought so, it would not have changed with the update
10:55 Null404               OPACUserCSS is empty in both ones
10:55 cait1                 you might also be able to double click my name
10:55 davidnind             Also check OPACUserCSS
10:55 Null404               okay
10:54 cait1                 well cait1 today it seems
10:54 cait1                 hm try /msg cait
10:54 cait1                 dependson your messenger
10:54 Null404               how to pm ?
10:54 cait1                 i might be able to see
10:54 Null404               yes
10:54 Null404               I think it wan't edited, I don't know
10:54 cait1                 is your production system public?
10:54 cait1                 oh
10:53 cait1                 could it be that was edited?
10:53 Null404               in opaclayoutstylesheet is "opac.css" only
10:53 cait1                 better to always use yourown files and put them outside probably
10:53 cait1                 mine reads: opac.css by default, if you had manual changes in there - the update might have overwritten them
10:52 cait1                 also check opaclayoutstylesheet
10:52 cait1                 it should have kept yoru config, i was going to see if maybe the file was removed by the update
10:52 Null404               OpacAdditionalStylesheet is empty is stable version
10:51 cait1                 if there is a patch in one
10:51 cait1                 check the system preferences with "CSS"
10:51 Null404               in 18.11 OPAC have brown lines, now is all white and blue / black text
10:51 cait1                 t
10:51 cait1                 i think you might have used ane xternal css styleshee
10:51 cait1                 hm actually, the layout changes was before 18.11, so it be only your css missing
10:50 cait1                 but it shoudl not have reset your changes... where did you store them?
10:50 Null404               like books / patrons name etc
10:50 cait1                 yes, there was a layout update
10:50 Null404               in search results
10:49 davidnind             Or is that in the search results?
10:49 davidnind             Maybe translations? https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Debian#Translations
10:44 Null404               like "Ä… Ä™ Å‚ Å„" etc.
10:44 Null404               and  Polish characters have other font
10:42 Null404               I mean changed design
10:39 Null404               after update test server
10:39 Null404               OPAC design is reseted now
10:37 Null404               oh I get it
10:37 cait1                 for example, if we make a new field searchable for the search engine
10:37 cait1                 so if we changed the configuation of how the search indexes are filled, the outcome might be a bit different after you reindex
10:36 cait1                 your index was built with the configuation of 18.11
10:36 cait1                 new search indixes
10:35 Null404               you mean ?
10:32 cait1                 to fill them
10:32 cait1                 you might want to do a full reindex, it's not strictly mandatory, but if new indexes were added, this will help
10:30 Null404               I think
10:29 Null404               yes,  is updated successfully :)
10:28 ashimema[m]           patience is a virtue.. some of the updates are slow be nessecity
10:28 Null404               false alarm
10:28 Null404               oh, is moving on now
10:27 Null404               next one is command prompt only
10:26 cait1                 the output is printed after
10:26 ashimema[m]           it'll be working on the next pdate after that Null404.. which may well be a slow one
10:26 cait1                 it's probably thinkingo n the next one
10:25 huginn                Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=23233 minor, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Pushed to oldstable , AllowItemsOnHoldCheckout is misnamed and should only work for for SIP-based checkouts
10:25 Null404               it is normal that teminal is thinking on "Upgrade to 19.11.01.001 done (Bug 23233 - Rename AllowItemsOnHoldCheckout syspref)" ?
10:10 Null404               :)
10:10 cait1                 jumping 2 versions (19.05, 19.11) will already give you lots of shiny new things to deal with :)
10:09 Null404               yes, that sound nice idea David
10:09 cait1                 yep
10:09 davidnind             Null404: personally I would update to 19.11 and wait to update to 20.05 until after a couple of monthly maintenance releases
10:09 Null404               I would like to update to more stable version
10:08 Null404               but if my friend is using 17.11 he will also to wait fo 20.05 ?
10:08 cait1                 especially if you haven't done this very often yet
10:08 cait1                 it will be released in may, 19.11 is probably more solid
10:08 cait1                 for 20.05
10:08 cait1                 i'd wait
10:07 davidnind             cait1: no problem!
10:07 Null404               so better to update from 18.11 to 20.05 ?
10:07 cait1                 davidnind: btw, as you are here, thx for testing my patches!
10:07 wahanui               darn tootin' it is.
10:07 davidnind             Null404: excellent!
10:07 cait1                 always a good way to approach these things :)
10:07 davidnind             what cait1 said :)
10:06 cait1                 davidnind++
10:06 huginn                Null404: I've exhausted my database of quotes
10:06 Null404               @davidnind first I want to update on test system
10:06 cait1                 we are only one month to reelease of 20.05 and I thnk stable will move then
10:06 cait1                 you need to check what your sources are set to and change that to what you want - for 19.11 "stable" or even 19.11 (so you don't get the 20.05 update right away)
10:06 davidnind             (hopes you are testing the upgrade on a test system, or have made backups of database and any local files required)
10:05 cait1                 waht davidnind said :)
10:05 Null404               okay
10:05 davidnind             It is probably set to oldoldstable  or 18.11
10:04 davidnind             See what version you are following in your /etc/apt/sources.list.d/koha.list --> https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_Debian#Pick_which_Koha_version_to_follow
10:03 Null404               I think it was  pacakge installation
10:03 cait1                 do you know how yours was installed? There are some options, likely it#s a pacakge installation
10:03 Null404               is on Ubuntu 18 LTS
10:02 cait1                 Null404: it depens on how you installed it
09:59 Null404               I tried $sudo apt-get install koha-common but its only updates to newest version of KOHA18
09:57 davidnind             Null404: Ask away, and if someone is around who knows the answer they will hopefully respond (I've no experience with upgrades, so will probably not be much help...)
09:50 Null404               I have a one question - how to update KOHA 18.11 to 19.11 ?
09:50 lari                  there is one by Olli https://github.com/KohaSuomi/Koha/commit/d03bc1a84cae29024dd41e68d528afb8f0d93283
09:44 lari                  it's been in production for 3 years or so for us
09:43 lari                  let me see
09:43 lari                  but we might have some follow-ups in koha finland repo
09:43 lari                  kidding
09:43 lari                  oh indeed i take my thanks back then :)
09:40 Joubu                 and I asked a question :)
09:40 Joubu                 I only rebased the patches
09:40 lari                  & rebase
09:39 lari                  Joubu: thx for the sign off, cool to see my old bugs moving
09:11 davidnind             :)
09:10 Null404               thank you for information
09:10 Null404               okay
09:09 davidnind             Null404: Ubuntu 18.04 LTS recommended I think (see https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_Debian) or Debian 9. Debian 10 is mostly working now, bt not sure exactly where that is at at the moment.
09:05 Null404               Hello there, I have a question: Koha 19.11 work better on  Ubuntu 16.04 LTS or Ubuntu 18.04 LTS ?
08:33 huginn                News from kohagit: Bug 20501: Don't cut strings when unhighlighting in intranet search results <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=4a84f7a9e0d13898d9a17071e3bd74f904a1e4f8>
08:33 huginn                News from kohagit: Bug 25223: Make join of aqbasket and aqorders explicit <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=03ece9452a5eef8ca76dab413f4f5177f69797d1>
06:52 wahanui               bonjour, alex_a
06:52 alex_a                Bonjour
06:43 magnuse               \o/
06:34 reiveune              hello
04:02 * philor              has never actually seen "one tab plus one space" indentation before
02:01 philor                2015-12-30, someone on my production system created a bib record for Star Wars IV, and AutoCreateAuthorities seems to have created a couple hundred each for at least Carrie Fisher and George Lucas
02:00 philor                fun, I wonder what that bug was
01:11 philor                banish all the ones that don't have an All choice, that would be a good start
01:03 oleonard              How can we still, after all these years, have too many ways to make pagination happen
00:25 hayley                dang it! lol
00:23 tuxayo                hayley: Too bad. You can't even break in because our Jenkins is well updated :P