Time Nick Message 00:23 tuxayo hayley: Too bad. You can't even break in because our Jenkins is well updated :P 00:25 hayley dang it! lol 01:03 oleonard How can we still, after all these years, have too many ways to make pagination happen 01:11 philor banish all the ones that don't have an All choice, that would be a good start 02:00 philor fun, I wonder what that bug was 02:01 philor 2015-12-30, someone on my production system created a bib record for Star Wars IV, and AutoCreateAuthorities seems to have created a couple hundred each for at least Carrie Fisher and George Lucas 04:02 * philor has never actually seen "one tab plus one space" indentation before 06:34 reiveune hello 06:43 magnuse \o/ 06:52 alex_a Bonjour 06:52 wahanui bonjour, alex_a 08:33 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 25223: Make join of aqbasket and aqorders explicit <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=03ece9452a5eef8ca76dab413f4f5177f69797d1> 08:33 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 20501: Don't cut strings when unhighlighting in intranet search results <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=4a84f7a9e0d13898d9a17071e3bd74f904a1e4f8> 09:05 Null404 Hello there, I have a question: Koha 19.11 work better on Ubuntu 16.04 LTS or Ubuntu 18.04 LTS ? 09:09 davidnind Null404: Ubuntu 18.04 LTS recommended I think (see https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_Debian) or Debian 9. Debian 10 is mostly working now, bt not sure exactly where that is at at the moment. 09:10 Null404 okay 09:10 Null404 thank you for information 09:11 davidnind :) 09:39 lari Joubu: thx for the sign off, cool to see my old bugs moving 09:40 lari & rebase 09:40 Joubu I only rebased the patches 09:40 Joubu and I asked a question :) 09:43 lari oh indeed i take my thanks back then :) 09:43 lari kidding 09:43 lari but we might have some follow-ups in koha finland repo 09:43 lari let me see 09:44 lari it's been in production for 3 years or so for us 09:50 lari there is one by Olli https://github.com/KohaSuomi/Koha/commit/d03bc1a84cae29024dd41e68d528afb8f0d93283 09:50 Null404 I have a one question - how to update KOHA 18.11 to 19.11 ? 09:57 davidnind Null404: Ask away, and if someone is around who knows the answer they will hopefully respond (I've no experience with upgrades, so will probably not be much help...) 09:59 Null404 I tried $sudo apt-get install koha-common but its only updates to newest version of KOHA18 10:02 cait1 Null404: it depens on how you installed it 10:03 Null404 is on Ubuntu 18 LTS 10:03 cait1 do you know how yours was installed? There are some options, likely it#s a pacakge installation 10:03 Null404 I think it was pacakge installation 10:04 davidnind See what version you are following in your /etc/apt/sources.list.d/koha.list --> https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_Debian#Pick_which_Koha_version_to_follow 10:05 davidnind It is probably set to oldoldstable or 18.11 10:05 Null404 okay 10:05 cait1 waht davidnind said :) 10:06 davidnind (hopes you are testing the upgrade on a test system, or have made backups of database and any local files required) 10:06 cait1 you need to check what your sources are set to and change that to what you want - for 19.11 "stable" or even 19.11 (so you don't get the 20.05 update right away) 10:06 cait1 we are only one month to reelease of 20.05 and I thnk stable will move then 10:06 Null404 @davidnind first I want to update on test system 10:06 huginn Null404: I've exhausted my database of quotes 10:06 cait1 davidnind++ 10:07 davidnind what cait1 said :) 10:07 cait1 always a good way to approach these things :) 10:07 davidnind Null404: excellent! 10:07 wahanui darn tootin' it is. 10:07 cait1 davidnind: btw, as you are here, thx for testing my patches! 10:07 Null404 so better to update from 18.11 to 20.05 ? 10:07 davidnind cait1: no problem! 10:08 cait1 i'd wait 10:08 cait1 for 20.05 10:08 cait1 it will be released in may, 19.11 is probably more solid 10:08 cait1 especially if you haven't done this very often yet 10:08 Null404 but if my friend is using 17.11 he will also to wait fo 20.05 ? 10:09 Null404 I would like to update to more stable version 10:09 davidnind Null404: personally I would update to 19.11 and wait to update to 20.05 until after a couple of monthly maintenance releases 10:09 cait1 yep 10:09 Null404 yes, that sound nice idea David 10:10 cait1 jumping 2 versions (19.05, 19.11) will already give you lots of shiny new things to deal with :) 10:10 Null404 :) 10:25 Null404 it is normal that teminal is thinking on "Upgrade to 19.11.01.001 done (Bug 23233 - Rename AllowItemsOnHoldCheckout syspref)" ? 10:25 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=23233 minor, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Pushed to oldstable , AllowItemsOnHoldCheckout is misnamed and should only work for for SIP-based checkouts 10:26 cait1 it's probably thinkingo n the next one 10:26 ashimema[m] it'll be working on the next pdate after that Null404.. which may well be a slow one 10:26 cait1 the output is printed after 10:27 Null404 next one is command prompt only 10:28 Null404 oh, is moving on now 10:28 Null404 false alarm 10:28 ashimema[m] patience is a virtue.. some of the updates are slow be nessecity 10:29 Null404 yes, is updated successfully :) 10:30 Null404 I think 10:32 cait1 you might want to do a full reindex, it's not strictly mandatory, but if new indexes were added, this will help 10:32 cait1 to fill them 10:35 Null404 you mean ? 10:36 cait1 new search indixes 10:36 cait1 your index was built with the configuation of 18.11 10:37 cait1 so if we changed the configuation of how the search indexes are filled, the outcome might be a bit different after you reindex 10:37 cait1 for example, if we make a new field searchable for the search engine 10:37 Null404 oh I get it 10:39 Null404 OPAC design is reseted now 10:39 Null404 after update test server 10:42 Null404 I mean changed design 10:44 Null404 and Polish characters have other font 10:44 Null404 like "ą ę ł ń" etc. 10:49 davidnind Maybe translations? https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Debian#Translations 10:49 davidnind Or is that in the search results? 10:50 Null404 in search results 10:50 cait1 yes, there was a layout update 10:50 Null404 like books / patrons name etc 10:50 cait1 but it shoudl not have reset your changes... where did you store them? 10:51 cait1 hm actually, the layout changes was before 18.11, so it be only your css missing 10:51 cait1 i think you might have used ane xternal css styleshee 10:51 cait1 t 10:51 Null404 in 18.11 OPAC have brown lines, now is all white and blue / black text 10:51 cait1 check the system preferences with "CSS" 10:51 cait1 if there is a patch in one 10:52 Null404 OpacAdditionalStylesheet is empty is stable version 10:52 cait1 it should have kept yoru config, i was going to see if maybe the file was removed by the update 10:52 cait1 also check opaclayoutstylesheet 10:53 cait1 mine reads: opac.css by default, if you had manual changes in there - the update might have overwritten them 10:53 cait1 better to always use yourown files and put them outside probably 10:53 Null404 in opaclayoutstylesheet is "opac.css" only 10:53 cait1 could it be that was edited? 10:54 cait1 oh 10:54 cait1 is your production system public? 10:54 Null404 I think it wan't edited, I don't know 10:54 Null404 yes 10:54 cait1 i might be able to see 10:54 Null404 how to pm ? 10:54 cait1 dependson your messenger 10:54 cait1 hm try /msg cait 10:54 cait1 well cait1 today it seems 10:55 Null404 okay 10:55 davidnind Also check OPACUserCSS 10:55 cait1 you might also be able to double click my name 10:55 Null404 OPACUserCSS is empty in both ones 10:55 cait1 yeah i thought so, it would not have changed with the update 10:55 cait1 we leave the database ones alone 10:57 Null404 "No such nick/channel: cait" when I trying /msg cait 10:57 Null404 oh I forgot to add "1" sorry 11:00 cait1 sorry, timeout :( 11:00 cait1 what i was going to do is 11:00 cait1 find soemthing that looks different 11:00 cait1 hit F12 to get the developer tools open 11:00 cait1 use the element inspector see the css it is affected by - and it will also tell you where it pulls that from 11:01 Null404 okay 11:01 cait1 a color might be a good thing to look for 11:02 cait1 koha standard has no brown, so that is likkely something done for your library 11:03 davidnind it also pays to clear the browser cache after an upgrade/update as well, but if you are using a different URL I don't think that will matter 11:03 Null404 hm.. good to know 11:04 Null404 before was "/opac-tmpl/bootstrap/css/opac.css" now is "/opac-tmpl/bootstrap/css/opac_19.1104000.css" 11:07 cait1 hm that is to be expected 11:07 cait1 we added the versions to avoid issues with the cache 11:07 davidnind right, finished for the evening ... now to see if I wake up in time for the development meeting! 11:07 cait1 you might want to compare the 2 opac.css files 11:08 cait1 davidnind: sleep well! 11:08 davidnind :) 11:09 cait1 hm an Owen would be good to have now 11:09 cait1 oleonard-away: ping? 11:09 Null404 okay so I will look after this css file 11:10 cait1 it might be you just need to copy it on the other server - on theserver it's probably still named opac.css 11:10 cait1 because apache might be involved in what you see from outside 11:10 Null404 @cait1 do you know in what catalog I can find this file ? 11:10 huginn Null404: I suck 11:11 cait1 oleonard is a good person too to ask about the CSS stuf 11:11 cait1 you mean the path? 11:12 cait1 I am not sure, my paths in a dev environment are different from packages 11:12 Null404 yes 11:12 Null404 oh, okay 11:13 cait1 bootstrap/css will be the same 11:27 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 24183: (RM follow-up) Remove re-introduced UseKohaPlugins <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=82090e2673f44aea18a205ee3cf9deb04bd91c80> 11:55 oleonard I have been summoned 11:56 oleonard Null404 still around? 12:04 magnuse Oak 12:04 Oak magnuse 12:05 Oak \o/ 12:05 Oak How is everyone is these strange times. 12:15 Null404 yes 12:15 Null404 @oleonard> yes 12:15 huginn Null404: I'll give you the answer as soon as RDA is ready 12:15 wahanui i already had it that way, huginn. 12:15 oleonard Were you having a CSS problem? 12:15 Null404 I think that css on test server wasn't set 12:16 Null404 I looking where I can find Css file 12:16 Null404 I mean file path location 12:16 Null404 to copy css file from main koha to test one 12:16 oleonard A custom css file? 12:16 Null404 now on test server OPAC is default one 12:16 Null404 yes 12:46 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 25172: Add missing filter <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=37e6fe6ae59469aeb2078c52b4419c1fe5f3dea8> 12:46 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 25186: Fix accordion sections height in columns configuration page <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=74b8c05cfb72146c738d41e88da13346c47d4d22> 12:46 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 25172: Identify and display possible problems on the about page <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=7283a3a3e7777b1d34a7bf8c3974a4efc6fbe3d7> 12:46 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 25172: Adjust tests <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=16a030ebf64ce2a43af097f235cee1bc78a760e3> 12:46 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 25172: Remove _recheck_logfile <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=fb9268417bfd9e39f50053e948291c77530609a1> 12:46 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 25172: Make Koha::Logger explode if init went wrong <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=bfa921665abfc4fcf8c5c3bc5f115769bf2c9f55> 12:46 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 5614: Organize 'patron' system preferences <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=10b60d577053843c2b8935be696ecbf762d7f584> 12:46 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 16962: Remove the use of "onclick" from serial collection template <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=5f586e3d963be70dc1d3b5f55494f40227e43adf> 12:46 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 20816: Make SIP tests pass under ES <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=a40ef6ece7211ef139e9440a3022ebda7492ff47> 12:46 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 20816: Add ability to define custom templated fields in SIP patron responses <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=41b5db64b352a9cf33595171ca9c2bee70ca4f1a> 12:57 oleonard philor: I posted a follow-up to Bug 25235, I hope you approve of the changes 12:57 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25235 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, phil, Needs Signoff , Don't alert when replacing an authority record via Z39.50 13:00 oleonard Oh shoot I missed that there was a separate bug for addbiblio :( 13:00 oleonard Never mind 14:26 wizzyrea hi 14:26 wahanui niihau, wizzyrea 14:30 caroline_crazycatlady Is there a way through batch modification to change a topic_term authority record to a genre/form authority record? 14:30 caroline_crazycatlady I did a try by changing the 150 to a 155 and changing the value of 942a, but my authority record just disappeared... even after reindexing... 14:31 caroline_crazycatlady it's still in the db though 14:31 cait3 i think they still belong the wrong fframework then 14:31 cait3 as that is not in the MARC 14:31 ashimema[m] cait3 now 14:31 cait3 sorry 14:31 cait3 got a new vpn client installed (remotely) hoping it will help my disconnect issues 14:31 ashimema[m] :) 14:31 caroline_crazycatlady wow we have 4 caits now? are you cloning yourself to get more work done? 14:32 caroline_crazycatlady ok, so we can only do batch modifications within an authority type 14:42 Joubu ashimema[m]: follow-up attached on bug 25172 14:42 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25172 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to master , Koha::Logger init is failing silently 14:42 ashimema[m] awesome, thanks dude 14:44 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 25172: Fix Auth_with_ldap.t <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=b50d891c099d0f21f2528c5a6d5bbb586cf1612e> 14:45 philor oleonard-away: good idea changing the button text, I knew it was too big but I wanted the result more than I wanted small :) 14:46 cait3 irc meeting in 15? 14:50 ashimema[m] yup 14:50 * ashimema[m] goes to grab a cuppa ready 14:51 cait3 switching computers brb 14:56 * cait wonders which cait she is 14:56 tcohen @seen leej 14:56 huginn tcohen: leej was last seen in #koha 1 year, 23 weeks, 6 days, 19 hours, 41 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: * LeeJ passes gavel to caroline 14:59 cait brb 15:00 kidclamp caroline_crazycatlady: you still jave the gavel? 15:00 ashimema[m] Development IRC meeting 22 April 2020#startmeeting 15:01 ashimema[m] #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Development_IRC_meeting_22_April_2020 Agenda 15:01 ashimema[m] #topic Introductions 15:01 reiveune bye 15:01 ashimema[m] #info Please preceed your name with #info to appear in the minutes 15:01 ashimema[m] #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe 15:01 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany 15:02 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City 15:02 amoyano #info Agustin Moyano, Theke Solutions 15:02 enkidu #info Mengü Yazıcıoğlu, Devinim, Turkey 15:03 ashimema[m] [off] /me picks himself up off the floor after tripping over the dog whilst rushing to secure tea 15:03 cait [off] just spent 10 minutes figuring out why my mouse was not working... (wrong mouse) 15:03 enkidu :) 15:04 ashimema[m] [off] lol 15:04 ashimema[m] Right.. lets get this show on the road 15:04 cait [off] 2 many computers and matching mouses in this household right now :) 15:04 ashimema[m] #topic Announcements 15:04 ashimema[m] #info Freeze dates are now in the community calendar. 15:04 tcohen #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Theke Solutions 15:05 cait we are still looking to fill some roles on the release team 15:05 ashimema[m] #info 20.05 Feature Freeze - Friday 1st May 15:05 ashimema[m] #info 20.05 String Freeze - Friday 8th May 15:05 kidclamp #info Nick Clemens, ByWater Solutions 15:06 Joubu #info Jonathan Druart 15:06 ashimema[m] #info 20.05 Planed release date - Friday 22nd May 15:06 ashimema[m] #info We should all be focusing on bugfixes and last minute polishing at this point.. and planning our next big features and big pushes for the next cycle :) 15:07 ashimema[m] Anyone have any other anouncements? 15:07 cait advertise release team? we shoudl have the vote next general meeting 15:08 ashimema[m] #info Maintanence releases are imminent, just waiting on packaging 15:08 Joubu . 15:08 ashimema[m] #info The roles for next cycle page is available on the wiki now.. please add your names :) 15:08 tcohen tuxayo++ 15:08 ashimema[m] #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Roles_for_20.11 Roles for 20.11 15:08 Joubu We pushed some significant changes this release, technical ones. I think we should have a dedicated part in the release notes about them. 15:09 Joubu We should have some doc/advertisement about what has been done this cycle 15:09 ashimema[m] can we talk about that during general dev discussion in a moment Joubu? 15:09 ashimema[m] I agree 15:09 ashimema[m] #topic Update form the Release Manager 15:10 ashimema[m] #info What a busy cycle we've had, great work everyone.. keep up the hard work getting the last polish and bugfixes in to make a great release. 15:10 ashimema[m] #topic Update from the Release Maintainers 15:10 ashimema[m] rmaints? 15:10 wahanui hmmm... rmaints is talljoy, lukeG, hayley 15:11 ashimema[m] #info The next maintanence release is currently being packaged and will be anounced shortly.. It includes another small number of security patches so please update. 15:11 ashimema[m] #topic Update from the QA Team 15:11 ashimema[m] cait, cait1, cait2 and cait3 ? 15:11 ashimema[m] any news 15:12 Joubu yes, we need help 15:12 cait oh oops sorry 15:12 cait yes, help :) 15:12 Joubu 108 today, I have been QAing big part of my time recently, and the numbers don't go down 15:12 cait I tihnk there are actually more 'bigger' features in there than used to 15:13 cait the small stuff moves through fast, but the more complicated ones take longer 15:13 cait and are not picked up as easily 15:13 ashimema[m] Joubu++ for being a QA machine allot this cycle 15:13 tcohen Joubu++ 15:13 cait Joubu++ :) 15:13 amoyano Joubu++ 15:13 Joubu but, you know, I am tired of that 15:13 ashimema[m] #info QA has been crazy busy the last few weeks.. we're working hard but the numbers just aren't going down.. 15:14 cait also for a lot of bug fixing 15:14 tcohen I would've loved to do more QA, hope the next cycle will be better 15:14 cait you still can... ;) 15:14 cait honestly, we still got a release to finish and polish - everry little bit helps :) 15:14 cait but i think we will have a good one there 15:15 * ashimema[m] is partially hoping to catch some more company high ups in the next few days to try and get more time commited to QA 15:16 ashimema[m] We need more QA persons and we need some of our more experienced one's available more 15:16 ashimema[m] the dashboard is very telling of whose managing to spend time and who isn't ;) 15:16 Joubu not necessarily more, but more active for sure yes 15:17 ashimema[m] I like to try and add one QA person a cycle if I can find a suitable candidate ;) 15:17 cait i think even an hour dedicated every week consistently could help 15:17 tcohen In my own case, I would really need to schedule some day to just QA, as doing it in scattered hours only allows me to do small ones 15:17 ashimema[m] Joonas was a good call for example ;) 15:17 cait it's not only the amount, but also being able to come back to things regularly heps 15:17 cait helps 15:17 ashimema[m] agreed tcohen.. 15:18 ashimema[m] but.. to be able to commit to that you need to have the bills paid up first else paying customers have to take priority.. 15:18 cait a lot of QA is also involved in bug fixing, keeping Jenkins alive... I know it's always a never ending list of tihngs for all of us 15:18 ashimema[m] that's my standpoint anyway 15:19 cait so QA_team++ 15:19 ashimema[m] :) 15:19 ashimema[m] shall we move on 15:19 cait yes 15:19 ashimema[m] #topic General development discussion 15:19 ashimema[m] lets slot Joubu's one in first whilst I remember it. 15:20 ashimema[m] #info We should have some specific mentions of big changes that have progressed this cycle in the release notes. 15:20 ashimema[m] I totally agree with this, but haven't yet gone through the note to pick out which area's of improvement we should highlight 15:20 cait I like the idea, especially if there are changes sys admins need to be aware of, but also for advertising 15:20 ashimema[m] any help on that front would be greatfully received. 15:20 Joubu should we start a pad? 15:20 cait was going to ask that :) 15:21 tcohen +1 for the pad 15:21 ashimema[m] good diea 15:21 ashimema[m] idea.. even 15:21 Joubu ok, I will create one and share the link 15:21 ashimema[m] Joubu++ 15:22 tcohen Joubu++ 15:22 ashimema[m] ok.. lets move on then 15:23 ashimema[m] #info A new holds table - discussing a different approach to the merging of x + deleted_x/old_x tables. 15:23 ashimema[m] generalised it a bit there tcohen.. 15:23 ashimema[m] I hope people have had at least a short moment to take a look at the idea.. I really like the approach 15:24 cait i have just checked the kohastructure patch - and it doesn't look so different from before (if at all?) 15:24 tcohen yeah, I don't think it is exactly the same, but yeah, it is very related 15:24 cait could you highlight changes? 15:24 tcohen the deleted* tables for biblio and items 15:24 cait and i already have a wish: expiration_date - separte the expiration date picked by the patron from the pickup date 15:24 tcohen are really about archived things 15:25 ashimema[m] #info tl:dr Create new tables from scratch using modern best practice, use Views for backwards compatability for reports as a route to migration 15:25 tcohen thanks ashimema[m] 15:25 tcohen :-D 15:25 cait I wonder if we could avoid the views even - we have done without for the biblio_metadata change 15:26 cait if it's only for the reports 15:26 ashimema[m] hope I didn't simplify the idea too much there.. ;) 15:27 tcohen I would use the views, with a visible deprecation warning on reports that use the old tables 15:27 cait ok 15:27 amoyano we had the fortune that the term reserves is not used anymore, so we could use 'holds' as table name, but having views for old terms is great, because we don't break custom reports 15:27 cait so they would not be something to keep long-term 15:27 Joubu I already shared my opinion with Tomas, so will do here. Doing it half the way will let us in this unfinished state for a long time. 15:27 tcohen in the case o f the holds table, we tried to also re-think it a bit, so we have completed and completion_date 15:27 ashimema[m] I have a feeling all the little accounts fixes I made might have put a few people off having to rework lots of reports ;) 15:28 cait i have not got there yet, I might hate you a little later :) 15:28 ashimema[m] I like the idea of having views.. we could make them an option rather than a requirement at time of submission? 15:28 cait Joubu: so half the way = you favor no views? 15:28 Joubu The views are good for the reports (if really needed), but not to push something that is not completely done, and will never (if not done at the beginning, it will be like you know, all the stuffs we started but never finished) 15:28 cait I share that worry sadly, been around for a while to see htat happen 15:29 cait QueryParser ( 15:29 cait :( 15:29 cait for a recent example 15:29 tcohen I played with this during the weekend 15:29 cait i think the 'inner workiings' should be finished in a release cycle 15:29 Joubu I would be in favor of a group working at the same time on that, in 10 days it's done. But done for real, not half the way. ie. no more old_reserves ref in the code 15:29 tcohen because code speaks 15:29 tcohen and my conclusion was the the views weren't useful for the codebase 15:30 cait so basically we all agree there? :) 15:30 tcohen it was easier to make things JOIN the right table with the right where 15:30 ashimema[m] So we need some working groups to make sure we get such things through in full.. I would happily be part of such an effort 15:30 ashimema[m] we need the next RM on side for that 15:30 cait yes... we need the RM to agree 15:30 cait but we got no RM candidate yet 15:30 Joubu we need an RM 15:30 tcohen as I said I started with the idea of using the view, but the result was it was useless 15:30 ashimema[m] cait for RM 15:30 tcohen cait++ 15:31 cait you all just want me to push your stuff and think you'd get favorable treatment ;) 15:31 tcohen we all know you won't allow us to break things 15:31 cait ashimema[m]: what's the amount of time you reckon for RM duty atm? 15:32 ashimema[m] My alternative for RM proposal.. which I've not fully thought through yet.. was to try and split it with a small group.. say 4 prior RM's each taking a week of duty each month to spread the load a bit 15:32 ashimema[m] hmm.. RM time really depends on your own individual style. 15:33 tcohen ashimema[m] but then Joubu would revert my pushes on his turn 15:33 tcohen LOL 15:33 Joubu RM needs an overview of what has been pushed/done/need to be done. Hard to see how you can be 1/4 of the time on it 15:33 tcohen can I ask to follow the agenda 15:33 tcohen and then discuss this ? 15:34 cait i see Joubu's point too 15:34 cait harder to keep a consistent... line? 15:34 ashimema[m] I tend to try and keep up with the queue and do an hour or two every morning.. I also lean heavily on the QA team and spend a little less time on personally testing work than some previous RM's.. instead I focused on maintaining close relationships with bug authors so when tests started to fail or we spotted issue I was confident I could go find the person responsible and get help fixing it. 15:34 ashimema[m] hehe tochen 15:35 cait I can also see tcohen's point ;) 15:35 ashimema[m] fair 15:35 ashimema[m] so.. we all think rather than ever adapting the existing tables, where it makes sense we should create a new table and work through as a group to impliment modern best practices using it. 15:35 tcohen I agree with Joubu, but I think some people communicate well and share where to go 15:36 ashimema[m] and use views where needed for report compatability.. but only for reports. 15:36 cait and only for a limited time 15:36 tcohen +1 # limited and known time 15:37 ashimema[m] specific questions you had 15:37 tcohen Joubu I didn't find a real use on the views in the code to 'cheat' (not finish the job) 15:37 ashimema[m] foreign key field names 15:37 tcohen there's no coding guideline for that 15:37 cait i was wondering... why only for the FK? 15:38 tcohen but I've been told several times we should use the related column name 15:38 cait i mean if we name the FK patron_id... shoudl we not do that for new tables as well? 15:38 cait columns i mean? 15:38 ashimema[m] I think we should use intended table names as aposed to existing table names 15:38 tcohen \o/ 15:38 ashimema[m] so.. as you say.. patron_id in preference to borrowernumber.. and then one day we might have 'patrons' as the table and 'id' as the primary key on it. 15:39 tcohen yup 15:39 tcohen if we agree on this path, we should end up there soon 15:40 ashimema[m] I would be happy to have that as a guidline myself.. I often find myself asking what route I should take with a column name to be consistent.. having a guideline would help with that and we can work towards updating the old field names over time 15:40 cait maybe not soon, with the reports and all, but sometime 15:40 ashimema[m] I think renaming fields wouldn't be too horrific for reports actually.. I think a db update should be able to catch those 15:41 ashimema[m] do we want to add an action / vote for that proposal? 15:42 tcohen I would go for it, unless people want to send an email to gather more opiions on koha-devel 15:42 cait we could write up something an dstill send it to list 15:42 tcohen *opinions 15:42 cait people will disagree if they hate it i think 15:42 ashimema[m] brill 15:43 cait ashimema[m]: renaming borrowernumber in a report woudl probably cause isuses, it's too many times from different tables :) others would probably work better 15:44 ashimema[m] #action Martin Renvoize Write up a guideline for foreign key field names and distribute it for comment. 15:44 tcohen I cannot volunteer to write that email today 15:44 cait hm didn't we agree to make ti broader? 15:44 cait also for new tables? 15:44 ashimema[m] next point.. 15:44 ashimema[m] DB Triggers 15:44 ashimema[m] tcohen? 15:44 wahanui i think tcohen is the man you want to thank 15:44 Joubu IIRC I wanted to use them once, but people disagreed on that 15:45 tcohen I've read the whole Reserves + Holds code this weekend 15:45 cait hm i have worked with a really trigger heavy db 15:45 ashimema[m] We've generally avoided triggers to date.. I'm not entirely sure why.. is there a historical reason or has it generally been a lack of knowledge? 15:45 cait it's not the fun it sounds like 15:45 tcohen (no wonder why I got a peak of stress on monday hm) 15:45 cait it adds another thing to think of 15:45 cait to explain behaviour 15:45 Joubu the cons were that 1. it's not portable (DBMS dependent), and 2. not exported with a dump (and so need additional stuff to backup) 15:46 cait they are depending on dbms not as powerful as perl (at least in my sybase experience) 15:46 Joubu (and, it's a nightmare to write) 15:46 cait and also yeah, mariadb/mysql... versions... we already got tons of trouble with that 15:47 ashimema[m] any country arguaments to that tcohen? 15:47 * ashimema[m] is trying to remain unbiased 15:47 amoyano pros we can ensure that certain actions are done in a single transaction 15:47 cait my coworkers stated quite a few times that they think koha db is working as well and stable because we are not using triggers, procedures etc. 15:47 Joubu amoyano: you can to that in perl as well 15:48 ashimema[m] for db agnostic aims we're better off without db level triggers. 15:48 tcohen I don't think we will ever support postgres, so I don't mind that much. I think it really depends on the complexity of the actions carried by those triggers 15:48 Joubu you can open a transaction, do your stuff or rollback 15:49 Joubu I hope we will support postgres at some ponit 15:49 cait we already got issues between mariadb and mysql... 15:49 cait and the whole idea of the orm was to make us mroe database agnostic some day 15:49 cait i think we can't/should not walk in 2 directions at once 15:49 cait :) 15:49 tcohen I will help anyone wanting to support postgres, but I think there are better things to spend the time on 15:50 ashimema[m] I had issues just getting check constraints to work with mariadb and mysql.. so many issues that I ended up removing them entirely so we're unconstrained. 15:50 ashimema[m] if we were using just postgres I would jump at triggers (they can be perl inside the db) 15:50 ashimema[m] I think we should add triggers at the perl level.. inside dbic classes or koha::objects more likely 15:50 enkidu I have not see any better advantage of using postgres 15:50 ashimema[m] add/maintain 15:50 ashimema[m] +1 tcohen 15:51 tcohen As I was saying earlier, I spent the weekend reviewing all the weirdness in Reserves + Holds 15:51 ashimema[m] in terms of real world performance I've not really testing if db triggers out perform code level triggers 15:51 tcohen and the only thing that doesn't fit our current OO practices 15:51 tcohen is _FixPriorities 15:51 tcohen I didn't manage to see how to make it fit 15:51 cait hm can you explain? 15:51 tcohen the rest of it can just be class regular methods 15:52 ashimema[m] I've not looked at the particular routine yet 15:52 cait it does the renumbering when people change priority or a hold is filled/cancelled right? 15:52 tcohen it basically calls Koha::Holds->search and does things on the related holds priorities 15:52 tcohen if I wanted to keep Koha::Hold->clean 15:52 tcohen this would be a callback or something 15:53 tcohen but we don't have such mechanisms 15:53 tcohen and DB triggers seem to be the cleanest way 15:53 tcohen I mean Koha::Hold->store 15:54 Joubu Is your plan to rewrite C4::Reserves? 15:55 tcohen It is already an ongoing process, right? 15:55 ashimema[m] In Koha::StockRotationStage we use DBIx::Class::Ordered.. I think that approach could work here too? 15:56 tcohen Joubu I don't have the time to do that, but I think it is fairly simple to do. And also, this is the oportunity to find our good/bad patterns and evolve 15:56 tcohen that's why I raised this discussion to start with 15:57 Joubu I think I just don't understand what the next steps are 15:58 Joubu removing/replacing _fixpriority sounds quite far in the tree 15:58 Joubu so yes we could think how to replace it, but we will certainly face other problematics before 15:58 cait maybe we should have a pad to gather thorughts on this too? 15:58 tcohen good idea 15:59 tcohen I'm being called for lunch 15:59 cait and see if we can get a group interested to meet up and discussmore deeply 15:59 Joubu it's hard to imagine how that could be done without the other things (the ones that leave around _fix_priority) moved 15:59 ashimema[m] ok.. 15:59 cait holds sig ;) 16:00 ashimema[m] shall we jump to davids topic then 16:00 tcohen the triggers question was not something to implement right now, but a general question 16:00 tcohen because I see a use for it 16:00 ashimema[m] #action Group to continue discussion out of meeting, but genreally we all agree to the idea of creating clean new tables. 16:00 tcohen and as a dev this are the things that take most of the time, thinking how to do it in a consistent and productive way 16:00 Joubu what means creating new tables? 16:00 tcohen gotta run 16:01 Joubu ok nevermind 16:01 cait i think 'holds' 16:01 ashimema[m] as in.. create a 'holds' table rather than continuing with 'reserves' and 'Koha::Holds' as two different things 16:01 ashimema[m] ok.. lets move onto 16:01 ashimema[m] #info Release notes for bugs 16:02 ashimema[m] I've held off being evil about enforcing this, but it would certainly make RM and Docs people's lives simpler 16:02 ashimema[m] ensureing the 'Text to go in release notes' box is populated 16:03 ashimema[m] I would opt to leave that for the next RM to propose and consider ;) 16:03 ashimema[m] #topic Review of coding guidelines 16:04 ashimema[m] #info Terminology: staff client vs staff intranet vs staff interface vs intranet 16:05 cait hm davidnind might not have made it 16:05 cait caroline_catlady: around? 16:05 ashimema[m] I am happy to use staff interface personally 16:05 cait we said staff client was acutally incorrect = no client 16:05 cait and staff interface was the better liked 16:05 ashimema[m] I do think we shouldn't have two different wiki pages for terminology thought ;) 16:05 Joubu https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Terminology 16:06 ashimema[m] #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Terminology Terminology 16:06 ashimema[m] #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Word_usage_-_A-Z Words 16:06 cait terminology is older i think 16:06 ashimema[m] yup 16:07 ashimema[m] we could merge it into the new one and add a redirect 16:07 ashimema[m] I'm happy to do that 16:07 cait i like the styling of the new one 16:08 ashimema[m] #action Martin Renvoize will merge the old terminology page into the new words page on the wiki 16:08 cait note: terminology is referred int he coding guidelines 16:08 Joubu or the other way around? 16:08 ashimema[m] me too ;) 16:08 Joubu sounds better to keep the old one 16:08 cait maybe easier yes 16:08 talljoy good morning 16:08 cait keeps the link sintact 16:08 cait just use the style and new additions look good too 16:08 ashimema[m] with a re-direct in place it should be transparent 16:09 cait i know, but one click less 16:09 cait if we keep temrinology in most cases 16:09 ashimema[m] fair enough 16:10 ashimema[m] perhaps our mediawiki requires an extra click.. redirect don't generally if it's not a disambiguation page. 16:11 cait move on? 16:11 ashimema[m] any more to talk about this? 16:11 ashimema[m] or can I move on 16:11 cait i think noone disagrees with staff interface (or i missed it?) 16:11 ashimema[m] #topic 16:11 ashimema[m] #topic Set time of next meeting 16:12 ashimema[m] 6th May suit people? 16:13 cait yup 16:13 amoyano yes 16:13 ashimema[m] early or late slot? 16:14 ashimema[m] I tend to stick early more recently.. the later one seems to genreally not be well attended 16:14 cait really bad for nz at this slot 16:15 cait 3 am? 16:15 cait we should keep rotating 16:16 ashimema[m] so 19:00 UTC (20:00 in UK, 07:00 In NZ and 15:00 in USA(ish)) 16:16 Joubu last one did not take place 16:16 ashimema[m] yup 16:16 ashimema[m] because no-one turned up 16:16 ashimema[m] myself included :( 16:17 ashimema[m] oops 16:17 ashimema[m] #info Next meeting: 6 May 2020, 19 UTC 16:18 ashimema[m] ok with everyone? 16:18 * ashimema[m] is getting hungry 16:18 Joubu go for it 16:18 ashimema[m] #endmeeting 16:18 * cait is hungry too 16:18 cait what's for dinner ashimema[m]? 16:18 ashimema[m] thanks everyone 16:19 ashimema[m] seafood pasta 16:19 Joubu you messed with the #startmeeting 16:19 Joubu we don't have log 16:19 cait ohoh 16:19 cait we could still link ot the irc log, but do we need to start/end another for the script? 16:32 Joubu #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 22 April 2020 16:32 huginn Meeting started Wed Apr 22 16:32:22 2020 UTC. The chair is Joubu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:32 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 16:32 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_22_april_2020' 16:32 Joubu #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Development_IRC_meeting_22_April_2020 16:32 Joubu #info the logs of this meeting are at http://irc.koha-community.org/koha/2020-04-22#i_2239112 16:33 Joubu #info Next meeting: 6 May 2020, 19 UTC 16:33 Joubu #endmeeting 16:35 huginn Meeting ended Wed Apr 22 16:33:08 2020 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) 16:35 huginn Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2020/development_irc_meeting_22_april_2020.2020-04-22-16.32.html 16:35 huginn Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2020/development_irc_meeting_22_april_2020.2020-04-22-16.32.txt 16:35 huginn Log: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2020/development_irc_meeting_22_april_2020.2020-04-22-16.32.log.html 16:35 ashimema[m] crap :( 16:35 cait don't worry.... i guess we all had that meeting ones 16:35 ashimema[m] stupid irc client 16:35 cait once 16:35 ashimema[m] it's in the right order for me.. but looking at the irc logs it's reverse it! 16:40 lisettelatah Hello all 16:40 cait hi lisettelatah! 16:40 lisettelatah I got my devbox working again just in time for Kohathon tomorrow. 16:41 cait yay! 16:55 * philor takes several deep breaths 16:56 philor the first-time experience merging authorities with LinkerModule: FirstMatch is... startling 16:56 talljoy indeed. 16:57 * ashimema[m] is heading for dinner now 16:57 ashimema[m] if anyone fancies checking my work on https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Word_usage_-_A-Z (doing it there before moving it accross to https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Terminology 19:10 caroline Somebody pinged me earlier? Sorry, I was doing a training