Time  Nick               Message
21:49 caroline_catlady   bye everyone!
21:16 * ashimema         heads to bed
21:16 ashimema           there's a wopping 17
21:16 ashimema           done
21:07 ashimema           I'll email you rangi.. likely easier
20:03 rangi              ashimema: which ones don't have a commit ? if you let me know I can tell you what the did :)
18:58 oleonard           Bye #koha
18:06 huginn`            ashimema: The operation succeeded.
18:06 ashimema           @later tell cait I've PQA'd bug 5770 but I wouldn't mind a second pair of eyes on the very last followup just to sanity check my understanding of replyto.
18:02 magnuse            horrible mistake, i can't imagine anything else
18:00 ashimema           yowsers
18:00 oleonard           magnuse: Serial, horrible mistake, or both?
17:58 oleonard           :O
17:57 magnuse            ooh, nice, a biblio with 985576 items...
17:51 oleonard           Wow this prefs idea is kicking my butt, unexpectedly.
16:39 oleonard           [off] Yeah we'd all like better circulation rules, bub, but life is hard ain't it?
16:31 m23                Thank you
16:30 m23                I did some test with maual install, but still no result
16:30 oleonard           Good job Oracle, still impressing the FOSS world at every turn
16:29 ashimema           ping.. were you aware of this... it'll kill koha-testing-docker too no doubt
16:29 ashimema           tcohen
16:29 ashimema           it's something we'll need to fix at our end I'm afraid.. not much you can do about it right now :(
16:29 m23                strange Oracle :-)
16:28 ashimema           so kohadevbox for the time being is broken when attempting to run it with ES
16:28 ashimema           Oracle appear to have suddenly decided to kill of the PPA we use for install oracle-java8-installer
16:27 ashimema           funny you should run into that today.. we we're just discussing it this morning m23
16:26 m23                Ansible config looks good.
16:25 m23                Can somebody help with kohadevbov? I stuck on install Javo for ES. I get Error: TASK [kohadevbox : Elasticsearch 5.x | Install Oracle Java 8] ****************** fatal: [stretch]: FAILED! => {"changed": false, "msg": "No package matching 'oracle-java8-installer' is available"}
16:24 m23                Hello Koha
16:19 oleonard           So Dumbledore is still alive, but he's being a real jackass
16:17 wizzyrea           "your greatest challenge is yet to come" or something.
16:17 wizzyrea           no no, more like, harry potter around book 5
16:16 wizzyrea           percy at the beginning of the lightning thief?
16:16 oleonard           If I succeed I'm going to be so jacked
16:16 wizzyrea           rofl
16:16 oleonard           I'm skinny-Hercules from the start of the Disney movie
16:15 wizzyrea           no I don't think it is really
16:15 wizzyrea           is that better?
16:15 wizzyrea           sorry, you are a green, inexperienced, but plucky hero who fights for the user
16:15 oleonard           Don't say that before I return from my quest
16:14 wizzyrea           you are a champion
16:14 oleonard           I'm definitely doing that
16:14 wizzyrea           for the tickboxes
16:14 wizzyrea           is to give them the same labels as what is on the patron input form
16:14 wizzyrea           but not one you have to do
16:14 wizzyrea           a potential improvement on just the table names
16:13 oleonard           I think I'll build a proof-of-concept using json files
16:12 oleonard           Looking at letter.pl, we already need a way to designate table columns as non-interesting to the user (it manually skips "timestamp", for instance)
16:11 wizzyrea           hehe
16:10 oleonard           Maybe tcohen can build me an API for table columns
16:10 wizzyrea           it's a way I guess
16:09 oleonard           Hm.... "show columns" SQL embedded in letter.pl... Not great
16:08 * oleonard         looks
16:08 oleonard           That's a good point.. How do notices do it...
16:08 wizzyrea           please do it
16:08 wizzyrea           anyway I think it's brilliant
16:07 wizzyrea           i'm sure someone wants to make that automagic as well haha
16:07 wizzyrea           or at least they were hard coded/hand selected last time I checked
16:06 wizzyrea           I don't see how it's much different
16:06 wizzyrea           they are hard coded
16:06 wizzyrea           and not all of them are there
16:06 wizzyrea           well, a potential argument is that we have a list of fields in the notices template
16:06 wizzyrea           i like the simplicity of the tickboxes
16:06 wizzyrea           well that's what I think too
16:06 oleonard           Possible... But an undesirable complication for the user
16:05 wizzyrea           i mean if we 100% have to solve that "this might not be in the list because new field" problem
16:05 wizzyrea           like a text input box "I ticked all of these but I don't see this new thing in the list i'll type it in"
16:04 wizzyrea           or the ability to add your own?
16:04 wizzyrea           and a box for typing in
16:04 wizzyrea           alternatively you could offer the table
16:04 wizzyrea           now that would be a good thing. 1 place to change it if required. :)
16:03 * oleonard         needs to see if there's a way to use some kind of include to keep from repeating the list in the .pref file
16:03 oleonard           That's certainly been very true for quite a while
16:02 wizzyrea           the table doesn't change that often for *the fields libraries care about putting in there*
16:02 wizzyrea           overrides any "this should be automatic propagated and not hard coded because reasons" argument in my mind
16:01 wizzyrea           it SUCKS for them
16:01 wizzyrea           i've trained libraries on this
16:01 oleonard           That number is accurate to 4 decimal places
16:01 wizzyrea           for a 10000000000% usability improvement?
16:00 wizzyrea           yeah but imo, objecting is dumb :P
16:00 wizzyrea           the speculative problem of objections to hard coding the list
16:00 oleonard           Not that that ever kept anyone from objecting... :P
16:00 wizzyrea           a few years ago it might have
16:00 wizzyrea           the problem they're objecting to might really not come up very often at all
15:59 wizzyrea           these essential borrower data fields
15:59 wizzyrea           it's been relatively static for these kind of fields for a while
15:59 wizzyrea           that doesn't involve adding things to that table
15:59 wizzyrea           we have a mechanism to add additional fields
15:58 wizzyrea           we don
15:58 wizzyrea           I don't feel like the table is going to change that much
15:58 wizzyrea           i guess what im saying is
15:58 wizzyrea           idk
15:58 wizzyrea           the list is already limited by what's in the schema, just that humans have to type it in.
15:57 wizzyrea           what I mean is
15:57 wahanui            well, do you mean is reserves.tt the only place where a hold gets placed?
15:57 oleonard           What do you mean?
15:57 wizzyrea           imo
15:56 wizzyrea           the list is already hard coded, you can't put anything in there that isn't on the schema
15:56 oleonard           I have a feeling there would be objections to hard-coding the list... Maybe not. I think I'll take it to the devel list for suggestions.
15:55 wizzyrea           anything new is gonna go in an attribute, it might be a relatively safe assumption
15:55 wizzyrea           do we see that table changing much now that we have extended borrower attributes?
15:55 wizzyrea           hm not quite then
15:54 oleonard           sms_provider_id, privacy, privacy_guarantor_checkouts, checkprevcheckout, updated_on, lastseen, lang, login_attempts, overdrive_auth_token
15:53 wizzyrea           it's basically everything in the table except borrowernumber yea?
15:53 wizzyrea           hmm
15:52 oleonard           The question is: How to keep that list in sync with the current database schema
15:52 wizzyrea           oh please oh please oh please
15:52 wizzyrea           tell me you are doing that
15:52 wizzyrea           oh hell yes
15:51 oleonard           We should not make people hand-type database columns. It's not fun.
15:50 oleonard           I want something like this: https://zivotdesign.com/p/view.php?p=15567257970310
15:26 wizzyrea           my claim to fame is the "test bug for git-bz"
15:26 * oleonard         already has too many bugs created in his honor (honoring bugs he caused)
15:25 wizzyrea           that'd be awesome.
15:25 wizzyrea           lol
15:25 wizzyrea           you should sign that off
15:25 wizzyrea           ^.^
15:25 eythian            Help! I'm being oppressed!
15:25 wizzyrea           hehehe
15:24 eythian            well of course it is. Who would even question that.
15:24 wizzyrea           <3
15:24 wizzyrea           i think currently it's at the "is this really required" stage :P
15:24 eythian            wizzyrea: I wouldn't expect anything less.
15:24 caroline_catlady   It's still at need signoff?
15:23 huginn`            Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=21892 minor, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Needs Signoff , Robin Sheat is not a typo
15:23 wizzyrea           bug 21892
15:23 wizzyrea           eythian did you know you had a whole bug dedicated to you
15:16 * oleonard         tries to change his nick to OLEONA~1 without success
15:14 wizzyrea           hm, technically I am done for this week
15:11 Oak                Huh, same number of letters!
15:11 Oak                Hi oleonard :)
15:11 Oak                Hi wizzyrea :)
14:58 * oleonard         clutters up the message queue with test registrations
14:56 oleonard           </ zuul voice>
14:55 oleonard           There is no Oak only Guest1518
14:55 wizzyrea           hi oak
14:54 wizzyrea           but koha has an internal number for that
14:54 wizzyrea           because lots of systems use the cardnumber as the unique id
14:53 oleonard           Okay, yeah, so Koha definitely doesn't care if cardnumber is empty. For some reason I thought it would.
14:53 wizzyrea           there is probably some nuance there i'm missing
14:52 wizzyrea           with physical cards unassigned
14:52 wizzyrea           and could prevent possible collisions
14:52 wizzyrea           to me, if you're just going to give them a new number when they walk in anyway, do remote registrations really need a card number?
14:51 oleonard           Yes
14:51 wizzyrea           you can do different ones for each
14:51 wizzyrea           I think the mandatory fields are separated for self reg and intranet reg
14:50 wizzyrea           my feeling is that it's not?
14:50 oleonard           They don't need one, but Koha will try to assign them one. I'm not sure if it's a problem to have registrations with blank cardnumber fields
14:50 wizzyrea           it's not an interrogation :)
14:49 wizzyrea           i'm just thinking this through to try and understand
14:49 wizzyrea           why do they need a card number for remote registration?
14:49 oleonard           We'll change their card number if they come in to "upgrade" to a regular account
14:48 wizzyrea           for a remote reg
14:48 wizzyrea           unless it's in a different range
14:48 wizzyrea           so if you have an automembernum, how will you know that you're giving the right card to the right borrower?
14:48 oleonard           Yes, so we just scan the card we're giving them.
14:48 wizzyrea           do you have preprinted cards?
14:47 wizzyrea           oleonard, what is the workflow like for adding members? like, how do you give the right card number to a patron?
14:47 cait               hm true
14:45 oleonard           Can't do that if automembernum is on
14:45 oleonard           That's too bad. I want card number to remain mandatory on the staff client patron entry screen
14:37 cait               i dont think we have another mechanism
14:35 wizzyrea           im not sure
14:35 wizzyrea           hmm
14:24 oleonard           I thought it was separate, but we're getting online registrations with no card number
14:24 oleonard           Do you have to have automembernum turned on to have patron self-registration assign a library card number?
14:18 wizzyrea           i've seen that one a lot lol
14:18 wizzyrea           hahaha
14:17 oleonard           Keep this handy so you'll know when you've taken a wrong turn: https://zivotdesign.com/p/view.php?p=15180992229249
14:17 wizzyrea           or I have, at the very least, heard of it before
14:16 wizzyrea           >.>
14:16 wizzyrea           well tbf I volunteered because I think i have fixed that before
14:16 oleonard           ashimema: Bring some back for the rest of us too
14:16 wizzyrea           yeah ashimema you should go on the school run and then go get icecream or something
14:15 oleonard           Ooh lucky wizzyrea got assigned an XSLT bug :)
14:03 cait               bbiab
14:01 cait               go onthe school run, give your brain a moment to breathe
14:01 * ashimema         apologises now for the typos that will ensue
14:01 cait               yeh
14:01 * ashimema         switches to phones..
14:01 ashimema           came accross this and it made things worse as my vague memory told me that's wrong
14:01 ashimema           I was looking for an example to remember how it's done
14:01 cait               oi
14:01 ashimema           old code
14:01 * ashimema         runs off for school run
14:01 ashimema           the same patturn is in a few places and feels wrong in most
14:01 cait               ashimema: new or old code?
14:00 wizzyrea           bah
14:00 wizzyrea           good luck
14:00 facuy              Guys I have to go... Thank you so much for your help! God bless you all!
14:00 ashimema           me too
14:00 cait               so the first 2 different
14:00 cait               i'd have said.. branchreplyto, branchemail, replyto, kohadmin
13:59 cait               branchreplyto not always?
13:59 cait               branchemai lis usually set
13:59 cait               i'd have expected it the other way around
13:59 cait               hm
13:59 * ashimema         tries to regain his email knowledge
13:58 ashimema           isn't this wrong: https://github.com/Koha-Community/Koha/blob/master/opac/opac-issue-note.pl#L83
13:58 ashimema           cait ...
13:56 facuy              And how do I know what server must I reboot? :'(
13:55 wizzyrea           but you'd have to know which server to reboot!
13:55 wizzyrea           possibly just rebooting the thing would bring it back
13:55 wizzyrea           good luck, always a bit tricky when you don't know where the server is or how to get into it
13:55 facuy              I'll try to
13:54 wizzyrea           that seems right to me
13:54 facuy              guys here said that I have to contact the person who installed koha!
13:54 wizzyrea           that's ok, we understand most things :)
13:54 facuy              It was hard, because my english is not very fluent
13:53 facuy              hahaha hi!
13:53 wizzyrea           i'm glad you found the IRC
13:53 wizzyrea           hi :)
13:53 facuy              wizzyrea, in fact :)
13:53 facuy              cait: I hope It will help! I will try to find the guy!
13:52 wizzyrea           hi facuy are you the one who emailed me?
13:52 cait               to acces the server, you need to know where it leaves and have an account etc.
13:52 cait               the the first problem is htat he needs to be able to access it
13:52 cait               facuy: more a sysadmin
13:51 caroline_catlady   lol!
13:51 ashimema           lol
13:51 oleonard           ashimema: Get your nephew to show you how to launch AOL from the CD
13:50 ashimema           grr
13:50 * ashimema         can't remember how email works now.. even though he had a really good handle on it at one point
13:50 facuy              But, does he need to be a programmer or sth?
13:49 cait               if he gets stuck while on there, we might be able to help better
13:49 cait               is there enough disk space etc
13:49 cait               and why it might have died
13:49 cait               i think starting with checking if mysql is running
13:49 facuy              But, in the case I found the guy, what must he do?
13:49 cait               that you can access through your browser
13:49 cait               it's installed on a server somewhere
13:48 facuy              oleonard: I think I can find the guy who installed Koha. But I don't know... I'm using koha from the web, from chrome in windows 10... I don't know if it's installed or something
13:47 cait               but yeah, nothing we can do to help until someone gets there on the command line
13:47 cait               it might just need a restart
13:46 oleonard           facuy: It looks like something has caused the database to stop running on the server, so there's really no way for you to proceed without finding someone who has access to that server.
13:45 facuy              But now, it fails hahah
13:45 facuy              I started to work in this library and got used to koha easily
13:44 facuy              I'm in Tucuman right now
13:44 * ashimema         thinks Tomas could get some business
13:44 facuy              We started to use Koha about six years ago i think.
13:43 cait               which city?
13:43 cait               :)
13:43 facuy              Yes, I am!
13:43 cait               you are in argentina?
13:43 cait               i don't think that's likley
13:43 facuy              My fear is to have lost my library data for ever haha
13:42 cait               I am sure it was not your fault either oleonard
13:42 oleonard           I don't know who you're talking to cait but I'll take it.
13:42 cait               can you get to any page? staff or opac?
13:41 cait               i don't think that was your fault
13:41 facuy              I was using it, updating some members data, when the error happened
13:41 cait               the problem is, with an error like this you will probably need someone to check things server sde
13:41 facuy              No, I didn't. And I don't know who was the installator. Koha was functionating when I arrived to the library
13:40 cait               did you install it?
13:39 cait               who is taking care of your koha installatoin?
13:39 facuy              I really have no idea... I'm not a programmer, I'm just a libarian :'(
13:38 kidclamp           is mysql running?
13:38 facuy              And I'm terrified!!
13:37 facuy              Every time I want to open biblioteca.com.ar (my library page) i receive this error message: Software error: DBIx::Class::Storage::DBI::catch {...} (): DBI Connection failed: Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (111) at /usr/share/perl5/DBIx/Class/Storage/DBI.pm line 1492. at /usr/share/koha/lib/Koha/Database.pm line 100 For help, please send mail to the webmaster ([no address given]), giving thi
13:37 cait               you'll tell us what it is about first :)
13:36 facuy              Hello! Can someone please help me with the problem I'm having?
13:35 ashimema           to handle reply-to
13:35 ashimema           just working on my third followup
13:34 ashimema           indeed
13:34 cait               really interesting
13:33 huginn`            Bug 2776: normal, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, chris, CLOSED FIXED, emailPurchaseSuggestions system preference deprecated
13:33 ashimema           https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2776
13:33 ashimema           aha!
13:32 cait               maybe remove thenote in a follow-up?
13:32 ashimema           not that I can see
13:32 cait               is there still a refernce in the code?
13:32 * ashimema         might pretend he didn't see that
13:31 ashimema           :(
13:31 ashimema           should it take that into account during upgrage
13:31 ashimema           that opens a can of worms for this patch..
13:31 ashimema           interesting
13:31 ashimema           so there once was an emailPurchaseSuggestions pref which as some point got deprecated/lost
13:31 ashimema           oh really
13:30 cait               pref i mean
13:30 cait               i have seen a working one
13:30 cait               jesse not knowing what things did
13:30 ashimema           jesse ;)
13:30 cait               can you git blame see who added it?
13:30 cait               some very ealry comments go back to jesse
13:29 cait               ugh no idea
13:28 ashimema           and wondering where it came from
13:28 ashimema           Suddenly spotted `# Broken, omitted: acquisitions, emailPurchaseSuggestions` as a header line in the sysprefs yaml config files
13:28 ashimema           is there a history for this emailPurchaseSuggestions thing I don't know about?
13:28 ashimema           cait...
13:09 cait               hi caroline_catlady :)
13:05 cait               marcelr: i was hopeful... but after looking more... ithink you might be right
13:04 * caroline_catlady waves
13:04 marcelr            cait: maybe a report that you do not want to add just before freeze too
13:02 huginn`            Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11529 normal, P5 - low, ---, ere.maijala, Failed QA , Add subtitle, medium and part fields to biblio table
13:02 * cait             just failed bug 11529... some additinal insight welcome
13:01 ashimema           just doing these email patches for mengu first
13:01 marcelr            ok
12:56 ashimema           So.. looks safe enough to switch to straight up YAML.. I'll add a followup marcelr
12:51 huginn`            Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7170 normal, P3, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Remove use of XML::Simple
12:51 cait               hm and some discussion on bug 7170 about speed
12:50 cait               was just sure i had seen Syck somewhere in the old bugs
12:50 huginn`            Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9125 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Syck parser error caused by uploading Koha Offline Circulation file
12:50 cait               bug 9125
12:49 cait               ashimema: check bugzily
12:49 ashimema           there's really no reason to have YAML and YAML::syck
12:49 cait               weird
12:49 cait               maybe the cache after all
12:49 cait               ok
12:49 cait               hm it worked onw
12:49 ashimema           marcelr.. what are you're thoughts about me creating a bug to remove YAML::Syck from our deps
12:48 cait               it does still look at the frameworkcode
12:47 cait               basically stuck right at the beginning with this
12:47 marcelr            no default should be enough
12:47 cait               should that be enough? or shoudl we remove the frameworkcode=""
12:47 marcelr            debugging is fun
12:47 cait               +        });
12:47 cait               +            WHERE (kohafield IS NULL OR kohafield='') AND frameworkcode='' AND tagfield='245' AND tagsubfield='p'
12:47 cait               +            UPDATE marc_subfield_structure SET kohafield='biblio.part_name'
12:47 cait               +        $dbh->do(qq{
12:47 cait               ere does:
12:47 cait               or the db update... i am really not sure righ tnow
12:46 cait               i think the script might be wrong
12:46 cait               which led me to the mappign tables
12:46 cait               i am trying to figure out why batchRebuildBiblioTables didn't update my columns
12:46 marcelr            no we look at default
12:45 cait               or is default enough?
12:45 cait               marcelr: all frameworks should have hte mapping, right?
12:45 * ashimema         now wonders what we use YAML::Syck for
12:44 cait               thx
12:44 cait               hm restart_all... but i will try again
12:43 marcelr            cait: think about the cache
12:43 ashimema           but I can't for the life of me remember why
12:43 ashimema           curse my bad memory.. nearly 8 months ago I wrote a script that converted from a YAML strcuture built with YAML.pm to the structure produced by YAML::xs
12:43 cait               do we need to do something else since we changed to use default?
12:43 cait               if i change the mapping in the frameowrks with sql... why wuld it not show up in the gui as Koha Link?
12:42 cait               marcelr: i think you know htat
12:37 ashimema           it's easily done
12:36 cait               so it is a fail, but i am doing some mor etesting
12:36 cait               turns out ere is using a non-required dep too :(
12:36 ashimema           another one that's already on my list cait :)
12:36 cait               steps
12:36 cait               small stpes
12:35 cait               but not there yet by far
12:35 cait               maybe one day we want to have a nicer config page for all those notice things
12:35 cait               so
12:35 cait               no i don't think to
12:35 cait               ther eis also another newer one that kyle did - for the payment/writeoff emails
12:35 ashimema           okies.. so not a terrible idea to introduce such a check on the pref then
12:35 cait               i tihnk having a pref is nice
12:35 cait               and if we add the notice with the database update, the feature will 'auto-activate'
12:34 cait               while others (like slips) will cause errors
12:34 cait               there is some notices you can delete safely
12:34 cait               ashimema: i tihnk the current behavioru is not ideal
12:34 marcelr            just an internal server error ;)
12:34 ashimema           good spot though
12:34 ashimema           let me have a play
12:34 ashimema           hmm
12:34 ashimema           if I remember correcly xs handles unicode much more accurately (which for names is really important)
12:33 marcelr            no
12:33 ashimema           I thought it was already in there
12:33 ashimema           pants
12:33 ashimema           oh.. is it
12:33 marcelr            ashimema: can you do it with the regular yaml module too ? yaml/xs is a new dep
12:33 ashimema           is it bad that I'm suggesting we shortcut using the system preference instead?
12:32 ashimema           if most places rely on 'Is there a letter template for this' to turn on/off notifications
12:32 ashimema           I'm second guessing myself now
12:32 ashimema           I'm back on 5770 again now cait
12:31 ashimema           hmm
12:30 ashimema           never got out of the habbit and can't even remember what the alternative it now
12:30 * ashimema         still does rebuase -i for signing off
12:30 ashimema           both patchsets should apply to the 18.11.x branch reasonably trivially too btw... which should help with testing it a little
12:29 cait               and upload them one by one..
12:29 cait               i remember when i had to do a git rebase -i to sign off multiple patches
12:29 cait               lazy
12:29 cait               all the new tools made us azy
12:24 ashimema           not sure if I could live without that now.. it's central to my workflows
12:24 marcelr            right assumption ;)
12:23 ashimema           not using gitbz with the apply dependancies patch?
12:22 ashimema           brill
12:22 marcelr            ok we'r efine now
12:22 ashimema           sorry..  couldn't work out a way to keep them independant
12:22 ashimema           haha, yup, they're dependant
12:21 marcelr            i need the other one too !!
12:21 marcelr            oh wait
12:20 marcelr            still: error: sha1 information is lacking or useless (about.pl).
12:19 ashimema           if not I've pushed a branch.. it annoys me that git doesn't do well with a rebase and then push of patches fairly often
12:19 ashimema           ta
12:18 marcelr            will try
12:11 ashimema           hopefully 21626 now applied too marcelr
12:06 ashimema           21662 updated :)
11:59 cait               huh
11:59 cait               +[% USE Stash %]
11:49 ashimema           thanks
11:49 ashimema           ok, on it
11:48 marcelr            ashimema: 21626 does not apply
11:48 cait               right now we have dev, so and manual in release notes at least
11:47 ashimema           yupd
11:47 cait               we can't pay... but we sure can recognize
11:47 cait               i am always for that
11:47 cait               :)
11:47 ashimema           I want to recognise everyones contributions. Not just the Devs... we're an awesome team, lets recognise it :)
11:46 ashimema           funnily enough I was talking to him about the history stuff this morning.. we're gonna have a chat at kohacon and come up with a plan for giving better attribution to people
11:46 ashimema           I was going to quiz rangi about them to see what they're contribution was
11:45 ashimema           also the ones that don't have a commit count (or first_commit date) for that matter are those that don't appear in the git history but were already in the contributors list
11:44 ashimema           thanks
11:44 ashimema           indeed
11:44 ashimema           I'll get back onto it.
11:44 ashimema           sorry
11:44 ashimema           oh.. I'd missed that it had failed again
11:44 cait               the commits don't sohw... we can figure that out later
11:44 cait               ashimema: i tihnk the only thing 'needed' for 21662 is some capitalization fixes
11:43 marcelr            ok i will close 22819
11:43 ashimema           should make it much easier in future cycles
11:43 ashimema           it's the second one.. it changes how we do release teams
11:43 cait               have to say i forgot aobut the onnibus
11:43 huginn`            Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=21626 enhancement, P5 - low, 19.05, martin.renvoize, Needs Signoff , Add 'current maintenance team' to the 'Koha team' page
11:43 cait               and bug 21626
11:43 huginn`            Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=21662 enhancement, P5 - low, 19.05, martin.renvoize, Failed QA , Missing developers from history
11:43 cait               bug 21662 is one
11:42 marcelr            cant find your patch ?
11:42 * ashimema         reads back
11:42 ashimema           was commeting on a bug
11:42 ashimema           sorry
11:42 cait               maybe he just wend to lunch?
11:41 cait               he has been working on updates for about and history
11:41 marcelr            ashimema: see also omnibus 18303
11:41 marcelr            ashimema: did you submit new release team patch ?
11:39 cait               hm reminds me i should do a webinstaller thing for german too
11:39 huginn`            Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=22819 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Release team 19.05
11:39 cait               bug 22819 might overlap with ashimema's work
11:38 cait               ..or me please
11:36 marcelr            ashimema++
11:36 ashimema           marcelr don't shoot me ;)
11:36 marcelr            hi #koha, cait
11:36 * ashimema         also loves that working with postgres forced him to be better at db design up front
11:36 cait               hi marcelr
11:35 * ashimema         loves json types in postgres for example
11:35 ashimema           but.. also doesn't see the point of going all out DB agnostic in the sense of not writing DB specific queries for things.. use a db for what it's good for and take advantage of as much of it as you can I say.
11:34 * ashimema         really like postgres
11:34 ashimema           I'm sure we could do it.. it's as much about whether we want to as anything
11:34 * ashimema         took the approach of trying to tempt him into helping ;)
11:33 * cait             waves at khall :)
11:30 cait               will try to come back
11:30 cait               kidclamp: staring at subtitle stuff
11:30 kidclamp           follow-up posted cait
11:29 cait               probabl someone else shoudl answer heh
11:29 cait               dbix?
11:29 cait               thnking of Kohastructure and slow move to Koha namespace using dbic
11:29 cait               wonder if it's ok to say we ar enot as close as we'd like to be?
11:29 cait               [off] https://twitter.com/MengTangmu/status/1123369614673506304
11:21 cait               sleep well!
11:19 ashimema           nighty night rangi
11:18 ashimema           oh.. wrong window
11:18 rangi              right now im going to sleep
11:18 ashimema           i.e. the pref should accept undef or something to allow for "Don't email purchase suggestions"
11:17 ashimema           this should also be entirely optional right?
11:17 ashimema           oooh
11:15 cait               also seemed more reliable
11:15 cait               from a testers point of view they ar enicer
11:14 ashimema           it's the new one's that are causing me fun and games at the moment
11:14 ashimema           and a server for the new ones
11:14 ashimema           we still have two old ones
11:14 ashimema           that's also the intention.. I need to poke Kyle
11:14 cait               are you running old or new sandbox?
11:14 ashimema           yup
11:14 cait               woudl be good if they all worked before
11:13 * cait             feels like most of the time with kohadevbox she gets told it's something I did and it just needs me to destroy everything and start from scratch
11:13 * ashimema         needs to spend a bit more time on the PTFS sandboxes.. there are bugs lurking
11:13 cait               so at least it's not just me
11:13 cait               the only thing to get it up was to disable
11:13 cait               rangi: that's what i had too :(
11:12 ashimema           I have a meeting to discuss tomorrow.. I'll raise it
11:12 rangi              oh can totally get it running, as long as no elastic
11:12 cait               ok :)
11:12 ashimema           I'm pretty sure that's the intention cait
11:12 cait               and if people are up for it we could try to get a devbox running
11:12 ashimema           annoying
11:12 ashimema           :(
11:12 cait               sandboxes...
11:12 cait               sorry, not funny
11:12 cait               lol
11:12 rangi              is there nothing you don't ruin
11:11 rangi              god damnit oracle
11:11 cait               i'd like to at least file bugs with them
11:11 cait               because that will make it much more fun.. but not sure how to make people aware
11:11 cait               I noted 'bring your laptop' for testing
11:11 cait               i tihnk it would be helpful
11:11 cait               ashimema: do you know if the abstracts will go on the website too?
11:11 rangi              https://launchpad.net/~webupd8team/+archive/ubuntu/java
11:11 rangi              so this is going to be a problem for docker too
11:09 * ashimema         want's one of those
11:09 ashimema           hehe
11:09 cait               to go to overlapping classes :)
11:09 cait               i need this sand clock thing form harry potter hermione had
11:09 ashimema           which reminds me.. I need to go chase mst and make sure he's still good
11:09 rangi              ahh we depend on a ppa for oracle8 and that ppa no longer has it
11:09 ashimema           speak up if any of you see a better way to re-arrange stuff.. I hit a wall in the end
11:08 ashimema           totally.. I think a fair few of us fall into that camp.. we want to go to everything
11:08 cait               i overlap with librarian and dev things... so I am a difficult 'group' :)
11:08 ashimema           as you say.. doc with bugs may not have been my best move
11:07 cait               same for ill and modern perl withme.. but I tihnk it's the best you could do
11:07 ashimema           the workships schedule isn't 100% set in stone.. I will play it by ear a little if I hear I've got some of my predictions wrong
11:07 rangi              *nod*
11:07 ashimema           gonna be painful that many of them overlap.. but I've tried really hard to predict what groups of people will want to go to them and space them out nicely
11:06 rangi              im a bit sad its the docs one at the same time
11:06 * ashimema         wants to attend pretty much all the workshops..
11:06 ashimema           cool
11:06 ashimema           I couldn't do lots of devboxes.. my dev server isn't big enough to support that much virtualisation
11:06 rangi              mostly im getting ready for the bug workshop
11:06 ashimema           totally understand.. same'ish' workflow
11:05 rangi              but i like to start from fresh every so often and make sure it still works
11:05 ashimema           it's lovely being able to checkout multiple branches and set multiple testing-dockers running the whole test suit against them
11:05 rangi              i just have a bunch of devboxes
11:05 ashimema           so.. I use git worktree's on my dev server and then run up lots of koha-testing-dockers pointing to different worktrees as I need them
11:04 ashimema           but then.. that's my own use case
11:04 rangi              often in a few different devboxes at once actually
11:04 ashimema           I think importing lots of helper functions from devbox into testing-docker was the wrong way to go.. I don't use any of that
11:04 rangi              often yes
11:04 ashimema           rangi , do you dev inside the devbox then?
11:03 cait               and i still fail with stuff like elastic
11:03 ashimema           means I can throw away the DB and things and not worry about config side at all
11:03 cait               took me forever to get kohadevbox running
11:03 wahanui            kidclamp: I forgot it
11:03 kidclamp           wahanui forget it
11:03 cait               so i tend to use not the newest you guys come up with
11:03 ashimema           and it's the immutable nature I love about it..
11:03 wahanui            okay, kidclamp.
11:03 kidclamp           it is also v useful for selenium
11:03 cait               I feel like often the new tools don't have lots of docs for the 'not daily devs' like me
11:03 ashimema           and use the container really just for runtime
11:02 ashimema           Indeed.. I dev outside of koha-testing-docker
11:02 rangi              hmm i think i'll continue with the devbox
11:00 kidclamp           and you can now have your mysql persist between sessions too, it really just makes getting all the things running and working together easier
11:00 kidclamp           you import the git repo though, so that remains even after containers are destroyed
10:59 rangi              isnt the idea of containers they are immutable, and disposable, doesn't seem like the best place to do dev work. Testing, sure, I can see that but doing dev, not so much?
10:57 ashimema           sure
10:57 cait               ashimema: teach me in dublin? :)
10:56 ashimema           I tend to use koha-testing-docker these days.. I've just found it to generally be more reliable
10:56 rangi              heh yeah nearly 11pm going to sleep soon
10:56 rangi              yeah trying to start up a new devbox with elastic
10:55 * cait             guesses ont he couch at home
10:55 * ashimema         wonders where rangi is right now.. timezone doesn't feel right
10:55 cait               still have to fix it
10:55 cait               i remember i had to turn off elastic on one of mine a while ago, but don#t remember the issue
10:54 cait               hm java... related to elastic maybe?
10:54 rangi              in the devbox using stretch
10:54 rangi              fatal: [stretch]: FAILED! => {"changed": false, "msg": "No package matching 'oracle-java8-installer' is available"}
10:54 rangi              hmm has anyone else bumped into
10:45 cait               how are you doing?
10:45 cait               it has been!
10:45 Oak                It's been ages.
10:44 Oak                Hello cait :)
10:32 cait               h Oak :)
10:18 ashimema           also.. my target milestone (which was used for that trello like bz board) experiment didn't really pay off.. so we can probably kill that back off I reckon
10:17 cait               something new in this version?
10:17 ashimema           if not before I will catch you at kohacon for that rangi :)
10:17 cait               looks good to me
10:17 * ashimema         still needs to follow through with his ambitions to clean up BZ status's a bit
10:16 ashimema           working for me
10:16 rangi              working now?
10:16 ashimema           rangi++
10:12 cait               just had an error
10:12 cait               ah
10:10 rangi              upgrading bugzilla if you notice it go away shouldnt be long
10:08 cait               kidclamp: I expect a quick follow-up on the keyboard shortcuts! ;)
09:49 cait               you just helped marcel
09:49 cait               you could send a sign-off request too
09:47 ashimema           but slept well
09:46 * ashimema         is at work
09:46 ashimema           nice.. even
09:46 ashimema           ice
09:46 ashimema           hehe
09:46 cait               i got a secret: sleep and public holiday
09:43 ashimema           you're on a role today cait :)
09:39 huginn`            Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=21411 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nick, Signed Off , Advanced cataloging editor - rancor - Allow configuration of Keyboard shortcuts
09:39 cait               ashimema: on bug 21411 next
09:39 cait               hi andreashm :)
09:35 ashimema           cool
09:35 cait               oh so much better
09:33 cait               just tagging a bunch of stuff
09:33 cait               i am on the tag cloud one
09:33 huginn`            Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=21036 trivial, P5 - low, ---, m.de.rooy, Needs Signoff , Fix a bunch of older warnings
09:33 cait               bug 21036
09:33 * ashimema         is currently QAing 21036
09:32 ashimema           he's offered that to me.. ;)
09:32 cait               yet
09:32 cait               i stayed out of it because i don't fully undrestand the new mechanics et
09:32 cait               but trying to recruit some SO today would be good
09:32 cait               maybe we can talk to nick to extend deadline on some
09:32 cait               i agree we should finish more of it
09:30 ashimema           do give me some bugs to SO/QA in return though ;)
09:30 ashimema           for example
09:30 ashimema           it would lead to some really funky reports :(
09:30 ashimema           they lay the foundations for lots of work I want to do next cycle.. I'd love to be able to start with a clean slate at that point.. and.. not spread this type of change over multiple releases.. as a chunk of the changes are already in for 19.05 it would be nasty not to follow through and complete the process
09:29 ashimema           I personally count them as bugs.. but code clean up is usually an enhancement
09:28 ashimema           sorry
09:28 cait               hm enh, was hoping bug :)
09:28 huginn`            Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=22563 enhancement, P4, ---, martin.renvoize, Needs Signoff , Convert lost handling to use 'status' instead of multiple accounttypes
09:28 cait               bug 22563
09:28 * cait             summons wizzyrea
09:27 ashimema           either 22563 or 22610 are next in the queue for accounts.. neither have signoffs yet though :(
09:27 ashimema           I reckon so (tag cloud)
09:26 cait               i am tempted to
09:26 huginn`            Bug 22766: critical, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, RESOLVED DUPLICATE, Tags cloud link in OPAC does not work
09:26 cait               https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=22766#c5
09:26 cait               do you think we can just ad claudio's sign off on the tag ccloud bug?
09:26 cait               what is the next one yo uneed to move?
09:25 ashimema           but that hope may be in vein
09:25 * ashimema         is still really hoping some more of his accounts tree will move
09:25 ashimema           :)
09:24 cait               i am on 22808 :)
09:24 cait               and my typing is really bad today
09:19 ashimema           haha
09:19 cait               [off] and you rtrets get wet and dirty - i think you got a clever dog
09:18 ashimema           [off] He does have a nice big garden he could use (though we don't encourage digging in the garden either)
09:18 cait               [off] sounds more like a squirrel :) but aren't there comics where dogs bury bones for later? might not be possible to do with your floors :)
09:15 ashimema           [off] does anyone else's dog go and 'burry' treats in random places within the house..  Lupin has just emptied a bookshelf to hide a treat and then pushed all the books back on it again!
09:15 cait               i don't want to put our way of dong things on everyone... but what I see from coris work and others, i think we are not too far off
09:14 cait               collided with my follow up
09:14 ashimema           thanks cait
09:14 ashimema           and commented just before I say you comment
09:14 ashimema           yup.. I just came to the same conclusion
09:12 cait               it won't be super fast, but as this doesn't need to be
09:11 cait               even without a proper mapping table, we could change the host record search to look for a matching 001
09:11 cait               ashimema: i think we could do a search
09:10 cait               i hope it makes sense
09:10 cait               ashimema: I've commented
09:01 cait               which might lead to wrong behaviour in cases where hte numbers match by accident to an existing record
09:00 cait               and there is no way to turn this feature off
09:00 cait               I think the assumption record contorl number = biblionumber is not safe
08:59 cait               [3] Create an ART biblio record, no items. Include a 773w pointing to the     SER record with '(MARCorgcode)[recno]' (keep the parentheses, remove     the square brackets when inserting the biblionumber).     Include text in 773$g too.
08:52 cait               wizzyrea: oleonard: at least we fixed something there for item search a while aog.. might be a different setting than you were discussing
08:51 cait               he knows :)
08:51 cait               marcel extended on my xslt code to understand prefixed
08:51 cait               wizzyrea, oleonard: one problem with fluid width was the column for title getting really narrow in some cases i think, because titles can break well, while other data can not
08:47 ashimema           I know I don't fully understand either
08:47 ashimema           he may just not understand it or how Koha does things right now
08:47 ashimema           as you say.. it's about the most obtuse area of MARC21 in my opinion
08:43 cait               he usually works with the standard, soi wonder why not here
08:43 cait               but marcel might be around you might want to leave your questions
08:43 cait               let me catch up on emails and i will hae a look
08:42 cait               yeah :(
08:42 ashimema           scary
08:42 cait               heh
08:42 ashimema           it's always there for updates if you learn more.. share the love ;)
08:42 ashimema           https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Multipart_Bibliographics
08:42 cait               and than the fact that $w is repeatable... and things get even harder
08:42 cait               so probably the $w(prefix)something should look for 001+003 and 035(prefix)...
08:41 ashimema           indeed
08:41 cait               but it could well be 035
08:41 ashimema           the test plan makes it clear
08:41 cait               i always assumed 001, becuase that is how Germany works
08:41 ashimema           well.. it's just hard coded to do a '->find' and that uses biblionumber
08:41 cait               if you read the MARC documentation it's not clear what $w links to
08:41 cait               i've had some mind bending relaization too
08:41 ashimema           yup
08:40 cait               true
08:40 cait               i tihnk our feature to create analytics does that, the one colin did (Add > add analytic)
08:40 ashimema           then link to that rather than always using biblionumber
08:40 ashimema           I think we need to add a db field which maps 003 + 001 (whatever they may contain in the mark record)
08:40 cait               why does it not use $w 001?
08:39 cait               and yeah, union catalogs
08:39 cait               as you have to safe first and edit again
08:39 cait               and making 001 biblionumber manually is tedious
08:39 * ashimema         would put money on the feature not working for you for example
08:39 cait               the problem is that in marc21 you don't want to change that mapping i think, because of indexing
08:38 ashimema           haha.. well this code also ignore unimarc
08:38 ashimema           interesting
08:38 cait               but it's not a safe assumption i think
08:38 cait               Unimarc used to map 001 to biblionumber i think in some old frameworks
08:38 ashimema           there's nothing in Koha which maintaina 001 = biblionumber though is there?
08:38 cait               orif you decide to make 001 = biblionumber...
08:38 ashimema           the bug always assumes 773$w contains a biblionumber
08:37 cait               it would in $9 i think if you use EasyAnalytics
08:37 cait               which subfield?
08:37 ashimema           I've never seen a catalogue where the 773 contains biblionumbers (or the 001's match bibliobnumbers).. am I missing something somewhere?
08:37 cait               hm I have to read it first
08:36 huginn`            Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20310 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, m.de.rooy, Signed Off , Article requests: Can we redirect article records without items to host record?
08:36 ashimema           I was going to ask your thoughts on bug 20310
08:36 cait               ashimema: ?
08:34 cait               sleeping in
08:34 cait               around now :)
08:30 ashimema           cait around yet this morning?
07:58 ashimema           :)
07:58 rangi              but with davidnind coming we will have a doc manager back up there too
07:57 ashimema           but then I remember how awesome it is I have friends from so many far flung places
07:57 rangi              i hope caroline is able to come too
07:57 rangi              yeah, thats why the kohacon are so important
07:57 rangi              hi magnuse
07:57 ashimema           it's times like these I regret how dispersed we all are.. there's nothing quit like sitting in a room together with the right key players for a few hours
07:56 rangi              yep :)
07:56 ashimema           kohacon for the win
07:55 rangi              i figure we can happen out a consistent plan in person, and document it, and then make it so
07:54 rangi              theres an email thread going at the moment
07:54 rangi              we sorta do
07:54 ashimema           sounds like a similar approach from the start would be good
07:54 ashimema           I've lost track somewhat there
07:53 ashimema           do we have a consistent plan for manual translations yet
07:53 ashimema           that would be great
07:52 rangi              yeah
07:52 ashimema           oh yeah, that would be great.. especially as splitting it out means we don't really loose the history.. just move it
07:52 rangi              i reckon we can aim for 19.11 to be the first release that uses a sep repo for translations
07:52 ashimema           we don't have anyone signed up as translation manager for the next cycle yet :(
07:51 rangi              the diffs of those are big
07:51 rangi              i think if we remove the history of the po files, it would drop us a lot of GB
07:51 * magnuse          waves to rangi and ashimema, then goes for a drive
07:51 rangi              yeah
07:51 ashimema           I'm sure there's lots we can do to slim it down, but it's more about making decisions on how/what to lose
07:51 rangi              http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha-translations.git;a=summary
07:50 ashimema           indeed
07:50 rangi              even if we move them out, it wont slim, but it will stop it growing so fast, then we can slim it next step
07:49 rangi              same with the packaging scripts
07:49 * ashimema         is more than happy to be forward thinking there
07:49 rangi              to get the .po files from elsewhere, and add them to the tar etc
07:49 ashimema           sounds great
07:49 rangi              basically we just need to change the release procedure
07:49 ashimema           :)
07:49 rangi              so ill talk with you in 2.5 weeks
07:49 rangi              one of the plans and I made the repo
07:49 ashimema           we've discussed slimming it all down a number of times before haven't we?
07:48 rangi              its mostly the .po files
07:48 ashimema           2 decades of history I suppose
07:48 * ashimema         will admit he still doesn't understand git behind the scenes enough to know why/how our repo is so huge
07:46 rangi              it doesn't seem to
07:46 ashimema           do we not already shallow clone and things?
07:46 rangi              just thinking tricks for the bugs session cait and I doing
07:45 rangi              would go from 3 hours to 10-15 mins
07:45 rangi              and the set the origin
07:45 ashimema           not a bad idea at all
07:45 rangi              we could in theory make the devbox grab a bundle
07:45 ashimema           I've used it a few times myself elsewhere
07:45 ashimema           I see.. it's pretty cool
07:44 rangi              but they only just added this bundle trick
07:44 ashimema           indeed
07:44 rangi              so repo.cz has been mirroring for years
07:44 ashimema           gitlab is complaining when it tries to mirror
07:44 ashimema           blimey
07:44 rangi              yep
07:44 rangi              ie a new devbox
07:43 ashimema           is our repo really over 10G now
07:43 rangi              when you are starting from scratch
07:43 ashimema           oh good.. I certainly hadn't noticed any
07:43 rangi              its just super slow to clone the repo
07:43 rangi              nope
07:43 * ashimema         wonders where that git bundle trick suddenly came from.. have we been having git server overload issues again?
07:42 wahanui            somebody said ashimema was RMaint for 18.05 ?
07:42 rangi              hey ashimema
07:42 ashimema           oh.. hello rangi
07:42 rangi              https://repo.or.cz/koha.git/bundles
07:41 rangi              this is a cool trick
05:11 indradg            Hi #koha
00:49 kathryn            hi wizzyrea :) am back after a large working-at-home lunch hehe
00:36 wizzyrea           hi kathryn
00:26 * oleonard         is away: I'm busy
00:26 * oleonard         disappears again
00:25 wizzyrea           oleonard++
00:25 wizzyrea           that's insanely good thing to know
00:25 wizzyrea           jeez
00:25 wizzyrea           right
00:23 oleonard           Some table have relatively readable data without table headers, others don't
00:22 oleonard           The collapsing table is something separate... Should probably be improved upon.
00:22 wizzyrea           hehehe
00:22 oleonard           I should have changed more lines just to make the effort look heroic
00:22 wizzyrea           i mean, collapse nicely for responsive view
00:21 wizzyrea           is that what makes the table squish nicely too?
00:21 wizzyrea           so it's just that one little bit there :P
00:21 wizzyrea           haha
00:21 * oleonard         has a talent for uttering famous last words
00:20 oleonard           I can't think of a reason to have it keep a fixed width
00:20 oleonard           I commented on the bug that the "autowidth" option should probably be set to "false" in a global configuration rather than table by table
00:20 wizzyrea           would the same fix work?
00:20 wizzyrea           the holdings table also does that weird thing
00:19 oleonard           Yeah I had the same problem at first
00:19 wizzyrea           I was like it's not doing that!
00:19 wizzyrea           yes thank you for the tip I see it now
00:19 wizzyrea           oh there it is
00:18 oleonard           Yes, subscriptions on opac-detail
00:18 wizzyrea           this is the opac right?
00:18 oleonard           I was only able to reproduce the problem if I started with a narrow browser, then expanded it. I don't think it has to do with columns being hidden. I think it just has to do with DataTable initially rendering a table with a pixel-defined width
00:17 wizzyrea           but not the subscription ones
00:17 wizzyrea           the holdings table is squished
00:16 wizzyrea           on master
00:16 oleonard           That's me
00:16 wizzyrea           i was looking at 22803 and I'm not seeing the table squish?
00:16 wizzyrea           speaking of you
00:16 wizzyrea           she should be, alexuckley is away on holiday tho so she might be really busy
00:12 oleonard           Is Hayley ever on here?