Time  Nick          Message
00:25 wizzyrea      tcohen: thanks for all of that - really helpful <3
00:25 wizzyrea      humbug he's not here
00:26 wizzyrea      @later tell tcohen thanks for the advice, really helpful <3
00:26 huginn        wizzyrea: The operation succeeded.
05:51 paxed         it doesn't seem like Makefile.PL obeys a command line parameter like "--db_tls no"??
06:27 saa           is it possible to change koha patron category code details one of the library has added . while defining category code and after upgrading koha is not allowing to edit those patrons hw this problem can be solved
06:50 BobB          saa it should always be possible to edit a patron's category code
06:50 BobB          if you have permissions
06:51 BobB          have you just upgraded? clear the browser cache perhaps?
06:51 saa           will clearing browser cache solve issue
06:51 saa           i dont think
06:51 saa           from where can i create category code
06:51 saa           category code hw to edit
06:52 BobB          er, on the Koha Administration page?
06:52 BobB          or in the Patron Details page to change the patron's cateogory
06:53 BobB          you need to be a bit clearer about your exact problem
07:03 saa           we cannot change category code text right once it is created
07:04 saa           there is no edit option in koha admin for changing category code
07:18 sjamso        I am using koha 3.20. Now I want to use the latest koha i.e koha 17.11. But the issue is I cannot upgrade to new one with the old database. There is problem while dumping the old database to new koha system. Can anyone help with this. I installed the koha 17.11 on ubuntu 16.04.3
07:24 LibraryClaire saa: to edit patron categories go to administration. Under the heading Patrons and Circulation is the option 'Patron categories'
07:24 LibraryClaire saa: you can edit and create categories there
07:29 reiveune      hello
07:29 wahanui       privet, reiveune
07:29 saa           the code which is already created that cannot be edited
07:37 LibraryClaire saa: then you will need to create a new patron category with the code you want and use the patron batch modification tool to move patrons into the new category
07:43 eythian       hi
07:43 wahanui       bidet, eythian
07:43 alex_a        bonjour
08:06 fridolin      hi
08:27 tuxayo        Hi Koha \o
08:29 LibraryClaire hi tuxayo
08:54 LibraryClaire anyone else missing the 'diff' view on bugzilla?
09:42 * andreashm   waves
12:22 josef_moravec hi #koha
12:24 andreashm     hi josef_moravec
12:41 oleonard      Hi gang
12:41 josef_moravec hi oleonard
12:41 wahanui       hi oleopard
12:43 eythian       hi oleopard
12:54 LibraryClaire hi oleonard
12:54 wahanui       hi oleopard
13:15 tcohen        morning #koha
13:16 oleonard      Anyone here seen solutions for the process of transferring items from a "new" shelf to another specific shelving location?
13:16 oleonard      Catalogers identify the correct shelving location for an item, but then it should go to the "new" shelf for a certain period of time.
13:17 oleonard      How to know what the correct "original" shelving location is?
13:22 tcohen        oleonard: add a tmp_shelving_location attribute
13:22 tcohen        hehe
13:25 kidclamp      course reserves oleonard?
13:26 kidclamp      or automatic item modifications by age, and shove the real location in a secondary field?
13:27 oleonard      I was definitely hoping for, "Oh didn't you know about this feature which does exactly what you want?"
13:32 tuxayo        Has something changed on Bugzilla? It seems that I can't tag a comment obsolete now.
13:32 tuxayo        This might be related to the message of LibraryClaire few hours ago «anyone else missing the 'diff' view on bugzilla?»
13:32 LibraryClaire hullo
13:33 LibraryClaire yeah I was trying to obsolete something earlier and couldn't figure out how so I had a conversation with myself in the comments instead
13:36 LibraryClaire as well as the diff view being gone
13:40 kidclamp      It's a great idea oleonard, would you like to sponsor a development? ;-)
13:40 oleonard      kidclamp: I would if I could go back in time to one year ago and do it then
13:41 * kidclamp    checks ebay for deloreans
13:49 eythian       https://opensource.com/article/18/1/my-delorean-runs-perl <-- kidclamp
13:52 kidclamp      neat!
13:52 kidclamp      bug 20086
13:52 huginn        Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20086 major, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , AddRenewal is not executed as a transaction and can results in partial success and doubled fines
14:07 tcohen        Joubu++ # koha-plack --rebugger pushed!
14:07 tcohen        \o/
14:10 * LeeJ        waves
14:10 LeeJ          hi #koha
14:12 LibraryClaire hi LeeJ
14:13 LeeJ          hi LibraryClaire
14:13 tcohen        hi LeeJ LibraryClaire
14:13 LeeJ          hi tcohen
14:13 LibraryClaire hi tcohen
15:37 tuxayo        Hi, is there a wiki page where we can put debugging tricks and resources? (Koha specific and general Perl ones)
15:41 oleonard      If you dont find one, please make one tuxayo. That sounds useful.
15:48 tuxayo        oleonard: good, I'll start a draft. I have few things in text files that could be useful for someone learning Perl (actually I am, that why I document these things ^^)
15:58 tuxayo        see you tomorrow!
16:09 LeeJ          I second it that a page like that would be really useful
16:18 mtompset      Greetings, #koha.
16:18 mtompset      @seen tcohen
16:18 huginn        mtompset: tcohen was last seen in #koha 2 hours, 4 minutes, and 49 seconds ago: <tcohen> hi LeeJ LibraryClaire
16:29 tcohen        hi mtompset
16:29 mtompset      tcohen: I'm looking at bug 18336
16:29 huginn        Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=18336 normal, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Needs Signoff , Use utf8mb4 instead of utf8 for MySQL tables, columns, and connections
16:29 mtompset      And I've got this massive question.
16:29 mtompset      Why 191?
16:29 tcohen        I'm aware
16:30 tcohen        index size for VARCHAR on InnoDB has a max size, in bytes, of 767 bytes (or similar)
16:30 mtompset      Okay, but 767 > 255.
16:30 mtompset      OH...
16:30 tcohen        utf8 uses 3 bytes for each char, and utf8mb4, 4
16:31 tcohen        thus smaller max size
16:31 mtompset      767/4 ~= 191 ... okay...
16:32 tcohen        mtompset: this is good literature about it
16:32 tcohen        https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/charset-unicode-conversion.html
16:32 mtompset      Thanks for the explaination. I'll comment on it, and then sign off after testing. :)
16:34 tcohen        mtompset: I change the index size everywhere
16:34 tcohen        BUT
16:34 tcohen        for tags_* I also changed the column size
16:35 tcohen        because I couldn't find a way to make it work
16:35 mtompset      Right. I get it.
16:35 tcohen        ideally it should be like the rest of them
16:35 tcohen        but I didn't manage
16:35 tcohen        maybe you have better luc
16:35 tcohen        k
16:35 tcohen        I did it like that because it doesn't really matter :-D
16:35 mtompset      So technically, shouldn't all the other varchar 255's be 191 as well?
16:35 mtompset      For tags, it doesn't. :)
16:36 mtompset      anyways... I get it now. Thanks for the explanation.
16:40 mtompset      oleonard++ # thanks for telling me about the xulrunner version of chatzilla.
16:40 mtompset      The firefox quantum update just bleeped my chatzilla add on in my other machine.
16:40 * oleonard    is a longtime fan
16:42 mtompset      By the way... the overnight build is 17.06.x and not 17.12.x for the kohadevbox.
16:42 mtompset      Who do I ask to update that?
16:42 mtompset      Wait... I mean the default experimental build that comes with kohadev.
17:09 MartiF        Morning! I have a potentially super silly question about SIP messages if anyone has a second.
17:12 reiveune      bye
19:52 kidclamp      meeting in a bit, who's excited?
19:53 kidclamp      qaers?
19:53 kidclamp      qa team?
19:53 wahanui       i guess qa team is hunting all the bugs!
19:53 kidclamp      hmmm..I know there is magic for pinging all the pings
19:53 kidclamp      rmaints?
19:53 wahanui       it has been said that rmaints is kidclamp (17.11), fridolin (17.05), rangi (16.11)
19:53 kidclamp      qateam?
19:53 kidclamp      qa superfriends?
19:53 kidclamp      qa?
19:53 wahanui       qa is Quality Assurance?
19:54 kidclamp      qa_team?
19:54 wahanui       qa_team is alex_a jajm marcelr khall kidclamp tcohen josef_moravec
19:55 mtompset      kidclamp: I'm not excited about a meeting.
19:55 mtompset      I'm excited about being able to use emojis for passwords!
19:55 mtompset      bug 18336
19:55 huginn        Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=18336 normal, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Signed Off , Use utf8mb4 instead of utf8 for MySQL tables, columns, and connections
19:55 kidclamp      mtompset: humansnack
19:55 khall         https://i0.wp.com/libraryisopen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/cropped-minilogo.jpg?resize=180%2C180
19:56 kidclamp      🍺🍴😴
20:00 kidclamp      #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 24 January 2018
20:00 huginn        Meeting started Wed Jan 24 20:00:23 2018 UTC.  The chair is kidclamp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:00 huginn        Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
20:00 huginn        The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_24_january_2018'
20:00 kidclamp      #Topic Introductions
20:00 wahanui       #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
20:00 kidclamp      #info Nick Clemens, byWater Solutions
20:00 wizzyrea      #info liz rea, Catalyst IT
20:00 aleisha       #info Aleisha Amohia, Catalyst IT
20:01 kidclamp      hi catalyst!
20:02 khall         #info Kyle M Hall, ByWater Solutions
20:03 kidclamp      hmm..small crowd - forge ahead or reschedule? we can wait a bit too
20:03 thd           how many of us are there now?
20:04 kidclamp      with you 5
20:04 thd           5 is not terrible
20:05 kidclamp      I just odn't know if there are people too represent the topics in the agenda
20:05 kidclamp      forging ahead :-)
20:05 thd           I was just going to raise that.
20:05 kidclamp      #Topic Announcements
20:05 kidclamp      floor is open
20:06 wizzyrea      nice work on the "don't store bugzilla passwords in the clear" A+
20:06 thd           #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
20:06 kidclamp      yes, +1
20:07 wizzyrea      Aleisha did you have any comments from academy week, good or bad?
20:07 kidclamp      #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Development_IRC_meeting_24_January_2018 Agenda
20:07 kidclamp      #info kudos for work on not storing BZ passwords in plain text
20:08 wizzyrea      i guess on to 18.05 stuff?
20:09 kidclamp      #topic Update from the Release manager (18.05)
20:09 kidclamp      Joubu is not here - I think he wants more QA and offers free hugs
20:09 aleisha       oops sorry, Academy was awesome and the community was a huge help
20:09 wizzyrea      hugs for patches, seems fair trade
20:10 kidclamp      #info Joubu could not make meeting, no updates
20:10 kidclamp      #topic Updates from the Release Maintainers
20:10 kidclamp      #info Academy was awesome and the community was a huge help
20:10 kidclamp      #info 17.11.02 and 17.05.08 released today
20:10 kidclamp      that's the big news
20:10 wizzyrea      \o/
20:11 kidclamp      #topic Updates from the QA team
20:11 kidclamp      just working where I can
20:12 kidclamp      #info every day rhymes with QA day: e.g. Monday is QA day, Tuesday is QA day....
20:12 kidclamp      QA Monday, QA Tuesday etc. if you prefer
20:12 kidclamp      #topic General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...)
20:12 kidclamp      Bug 17241
20:12 huginn        Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=17241 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Signed Off , Start using Bower for installing and managing Koha's JavaScript Dependencies
20:13 kidclamp      khall?
20:13 wahanui       khall is volunteering to come over and fix it for you, it seems. ;)
20:13 khall         ah yes
20:14 khall         so, the question is basically: should we use bower for our web dependencies?
20:14 kidclamp      I think we maybe need marcel and other with opinions?
20:14 khall         just looking for a general yay or nay
20:14 khall         or we can just make owen decide
20:14 khall         ; )
20:14 thd           ;)
20:15 kidclamp      okay to table to next meeting?
20:15 kidclamp      unless there are comments?>
20:15 wizzyrea      i'm a general nay because every time we add on stuff like this it makes it harder to onboard developers.
20:15 khall         we don't webpack any of our assets, and even if owen adds webpack, I'm not sure if he's going to add our existing assets
20:15 wizzyrea      but I recognise that might not be the best reason.
20:15 thd           wizzyrea++
20:15 khall         wizzyrea: it actually makes things easier.
20:15 wizzyrea      well, actually, it doesn't.
20:16 khall         right now adding a new dep is a real pain. and for using existing libraries it doesn't affect anything at all
20:16 wizzyrea      ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ i'm happy to disagree with you
20:16 khall         can you explain your thoughts wizzyrea ?
20:16 wizzyrea      every time you add a new manager, when someone is a new dev, and they want to do work
20:17 wizzyrea      it's another barrier.
20:17 wizzyrea      I don't like that.
20:17 wizzyrea      but
20:17 wizzyrea      that may not be a good enough reason to not do it.
20:17 khall         wizzyrea: do you have experience with bower?
20:17 khall         have you had trouble using it in the past?
20:17 thd           khall: Would you adress the learning curve?
20:18 khall         thd there is no learning curve, seriously
20:18 khall         if I were to play devil's advocate, I'd say new developers see the stone age way we handle things and run for the hills ; )
20:18 wizzyrea      there is always a learning curve. Always. But as I said, it may not be a good enough reason not to do it.
20:19 kidclamp      maybe it would eb helpful to have a 'here's what we do now' versus 'here's waht we do with bower'
20:19 thd           wizzyrea: If implementation is trivial and khall writes a one line tutorial for the wiki then I will be for it. :)
20:19 kidclamp      I think that is what cait asked for too
20:19 khall         we can do that
20:19 khall         here it is: bower install <package>
20:19 wizzyrea      ^ this is fine, but we often end up not getting that
20:19 khall         as in: bower install jquery
20:20 khall         I'd be happy to write a companion wiki page for bug 17241
20:20 huginn        Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=17241 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Signed Off , Start using Bower for installing and managing Koha's JavaScript Dependencies
20:20 khall         assuming it gets pushed
20:21 khall         we already use far more complicated tools for compiling our css, yet we continue to use them and even move forward with better tools ( like scss )
20:22 wizzyrea      ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I can see you feel strongly about it. I really dont.
20:22 aleisha       the academy students were very intimidated by anything css because it's a lil hard to look at, especially the minified stuff
20:23 kidclamp      as long as the process is understandable I am generally for it
20:23 khall         lol, thanks wizzyrea ; )
20:23 khall         unless a dev is adding a new dependency, they'll never even know it's there
20:23 wizzyrea      all I'm getting at is, I've watched new developers try to do stuff. The more tools like this they have to learn before they can do work
20:24 wizzyrea      the less work they do.
20:24 khall         the *biggest* positive is also that it makes upgrading packages like jquery much simpler than what we do now
20:24 wizzyrea      and the more frustrating it is to contribute
20:24 khall         wizzyrea: bower is definitely a de-frustrator
20:25 wizzyrea      ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
20:25 kidclamp      I think owen's opinion or others is necessary, move on?
20:25 khall         if you install a library that requires another library, it gets installed automatically
20:25 wizzyrea      yep onward
20:25 khall         ok, can we say that owens decision stands?
20:25 khall         I'm fine with that
20:26 thd           wizzyrea's point should be well understood, but I am an outlier for avoiding JavaScript as much as I can myself and running noscript.
20:26 kidclamp      i am okay with that, but others may have mroe to add
20:26 aleisha       agreed, should wait for more devs to have some input
20:26 khall         works for me
20:26 kidclamp      #topic REST api
20:26 kidclamp      #info Vote: PATCH implementation. Proposal to implement JSON-merge (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7386) as a start. Then implement JSON-patch (http://jsonpatch.com/ https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6902). This could be done in two steps taking advantage of Content/Type application/json-patch+json to choose between implementations).
20:27 kidclamp      I don't knwo who added this, assuming tomas?
20:27 kidclamp      tcohen?
20:27 wahanui       tcohen is obsessed with packages' scripts
20:28 LeeJ          #info Lee Jamison, Marywood University
20:28 kidclamp      I am gonna say table unless someone can champion this
20:29 kidclamp      #info waiting for next meeting and tomas to explain
20:29 khall         we needs it
20:29 thd           What would be the alternative?
20:29 khall         there is no alternative
20:29 kidclamp      generally I am for whatever tomas needs for rest
20:29 khall         we don't support partial updates in the REST api without PATCH
20:30 khall         the alternative is to never allow partial updates and always require the full copy of whatever to put used with PUT
20:30 thd           Consequently, this is a mere formality about specifying an unavoidable standard.  Do I understand correctly?
20:31 khall         for example, if you want to change a persons surname, with PATCH you just send the surname
20:31 khall         bascially yes thd
20:31 notarock      Anybody know where i can find the code behind Email::Valid->address( ) ? I've seen this like in C4/Letters.pm, and Koha/Email.pm seems empty.
20:31 wizzyrea      notarock: in a minute, it's meeting time :)
20:32 khall         I'd propose a vote so tomas can get back to work ; )
20:33 thd           Unless there is some objection we few should vote on the formality.
20:33 kidclamp      #vote Shall we implement PATCH  using JSON-merge and JSON-patch as described in the agenda? Yes, No, Abstain
20:34 kidclamp      #startvote Shall we implement PATCH  using JSON-merge and JSON-patch as described in the agenda? Yes, No, Abstain
20:34 huginn        Begin voting on: Shall we implement PATCH  using JSON-merge and JSON-patch as described in the agenda? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain.
20:34 huginn        Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
20:34 kidclamp      Yes
20:34 kidclamp      voet yes
20:34 kidclamp      vote yes
20:34 kidclamp      #vote yes
20:34 kidclamp      do it like that ^
20:34 thd           #vote Yes
20:34 kidclamp      #vote Yes
20:35 khall         #vote Yes
20:35 wizzyrea      abstain, no opinion.
20:36 wizzyrea      #vote abstain
20:37 kidclamp      last call
20:37 aleisha       #vote abstain
20:38 kidclamp      #endvote
20:38 huginn        Voted on "Shall we implement PATCH  using JSON-merge and JSON-patch as described in the agenda?" Results are
20:38 huginn        Yes (3): kidclamp, thd, khall
20:38 huginn        Abstain (2): wizzyrea, aleisha
20:38 kidclamp      #topic Bug 20086
20:38 huginn        Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20086 major, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , AddRenewal is not executed as a transaction and can results in partial success and doubled fines
20:38 kidclamp      I just bring this up for opinions
20:39 kidclamp      we have an issue in that if AddRenewal fails partially we are generating doubled fines for patrons
20:39 kidclamp      it would be good to use more transactions for things like this, however, it may cause unforeseen issues
20:40 kidclamp      with patches there all tests pass, but I think we need more eyes/inputs on how we shold correctly implement multipart updates
20:40 * kidclamp    has opened the can of worms, that is all
20:40 thd           kidclamp: What qualifies as a multipart update?
20:41 kidclamp      so for instance - in a renewal we close the fine, then we update the issue, then we update the stats
20:41 khall         thd: any time a subroutine updates multiple tables
20:41 kidclamp      anytime that one action depends on another
20:43 kidclamp      #topic Review of coding guidelines
20:43 kidclamp      #info Stop using "type" attribute on <script> and <style> tags. See Bug 20053 and Bug 20054
20:43 huginn        Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20053 normal, P5 - low, ---, indradg, Signed Off , Drop type attribute "text/javascript" for <script> elements used in OPAC templates
20:43 huginn        Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20054 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Signed Off , Remove attribute "text/css" for <style> element used in the OPAC templates
20:44 thd           The issue seems to be that if one part of the multipart update fails we may need to roll back the others wich succeeded.  Do I understand correctly?
20:44 kidclamp      yes thd
20:46 kidclamp      I think this one makes sense, but needs to be written as a guidleine
20:46 * LeeJ        nods
20:46 kidclamp      #action indradg please write up a guideline for submission for removing 'type' attributes
20:47 kidclamp      #info New rule Coding_Guidelines#SQL12: Booleans (DRAFT)
20:47 kidclamp      Thi smakes sense to me, standardizing is always noce
20:47 kidclamp      any discussion?
20:48 LeeJ          kidclamp: if removing type resolves multiple bugs then it stands to reason the same situation would re-appear in the future
20:48 LeeJ          so I agree it makes sense to standardize the practice in favor of removing it
20:49 kidclamp      oh, I meant for the next topic :-) I think the type thing is good, just needs to be written up
20:49 LeeJ          :P
20:50 kidclamp      #startvote Should we adopt SQL12 as drafted in the coding guidelines? Yes, No, Abstain
20:50 huginn        Begin voting on: Should we adopt SQL12 as drafted in the coding guidelines? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain.
20:50 huginn        Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
20:50 kidclamp      #vote Yes
20:51 wizzyrea      #vote yes
20:52 LeeJ          #vote Yes
20:53 kidclamp      last call
20:53 thd           #vote Yes
20:53 kidclamp      #endvote
20:53 huginn        Voted on "Should we adopt SQL12 as drafted in the coding guidelines?" Results are
20:53 huginn        Yes (4): kidclamp, wizzyrea, LeeJ, thd
20:55 kidclamp      #action tomas please finalize SQL12
20:55 kidclamp      #Topic Set time of next meeting
20:55 kidclamp      two weeks out would be february 7th
20:56 kidclamp      but is alos gneeral meeting
20:56 kidclamp      so I suggest 2018-02-14 13 UTC?
20:58 kidclamp      #info Next meeting: 14 February 2018, 13 UTC
20:58 kidclamp      #endmeeting
20:58 huginn        Meeting ended Wed Jan 24 20:58:25 2018 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
20:58 huginn        Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community.org/2018/development_irc_meeting_24_january_2018.2018-01-24-20.00.html
20:58 huginn        Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2018/development_irc_meeting_24_january_2018.2018-01-24-20.00.txt
20:58 huginn        Log:            http://meetings.koha-community.org/2018/development_irc_meeting_24_january_2018.2018-01-24-20.00.log.html
20:58 kidclamp      thanks all
20:59 LeeJ          kidclamp++