Time Nick Message
05:23 drojf morning #koha
06:09 * dcook wavs
06:09 * dcook also waves
06:13 drojf hi dcook
06:13 dcook heya drojf :)
06:48 reiveune hello
07:00 alex_a bonjour
07:02 morgane hi
07:17 cait hi #koha
07:17 cait remember: today is a developer meeting! :)
07:32 fridolin hie
07:39 gaetan_B hello
07:39 wahanui privet, gaetan_B
08:29 LibraryClaire morning #koha
08:36 * LibraryClaire goes hunting for coffee
08:53 petter morning!
08:53 petter happy hunting
08:54 cait hi petter :)
08:54 cait how are you doing? OPL going live soon?
08:54 petter hi cait!
08:54 petter I'm fine
08:54 petter we're going live in end of september
08:54 cait i spotted something in Jo's itinerary :)
08:55 petter yeah, exciting!
08:55 cait hope everything goes well :)
08:55 petter me too:)
08:55 petter but I guess not everything will be perfect at first
08:55 cait is the new building then done too?
08:55 petter nope
08:55 cait aah
08:55 cait ok
08:55 petter still some years with construction left
08:55 cait ok :)
08:55 petter 2019 i think? it keeps getting postponed
08:55 cait i was wondering because I thought it was meant to be a rather long project
08:55 petter indeed
08:56 cait but cool that you can get started with Koha now
08:56 petter yes, I'm looking forward for more control
08:56 petter (but also more responsiblity when things break)
08:56 cait true
08:58 petter how are things going with you?
08:58 cait super busy
08:58 wahanui super busy is the new normal
08:58 drojf lol
08:58 cait good and bad :)
08:58 petter better busy than not
08:58 cait yeah true, but there is a limit heh
08:59 drojf hi cait, petter and LibraryClaire
09:00 cait morning drojf
09:01 petter hi drojf
09:02 LibraryClaire hi drojf
09:02 LibraryClaire and cait, and petter :)
09:12 cait hi LibraryClaire :)
09:14 * LibraryClaire waves enthusiastically post-coffee
09:14 cait heh
09:15 drojf i would like such a coffee
09:16 LibraryClaire It was badly made by me
09:16 drojf @wunder berlin, germany
09:16 huginn drojf: The current temperature in Berlin Tegel, Germany is 17.0°C (10:50 AM CEST on July 13, 2016). Conditions: Light Thunderstorms and Rain. Humidity: 77%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Rising).
09:16 drojf i don't see thunderstorms, just a sky that is almoszt completely black
09:16 LibraryClaire @wunder LCY
09:16 huginn LibraryClaire: The current temperature in London City, United Kingdom is 16.0°C (9:50 AM BST on July 13, 2016). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 68%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 30.04 in 1017 hPa (Steady).
09:26 eythian @wunder ams
09:26 huginn eythian: The current temperature in Schiphol, Badhoevedorp, Netherlands is 16.2°C (11:17 AM CEST on July 13, 2016). Conditions: Drizzle. Humidity: 84%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa (Steady).
09:27 eythian we had a brief but visible thunderstorm yesterday
09:27 drojf i have the most rain ever now
09:27 eythian saw the flashes out the window and everyone was all " .. was that lightning?", and then 20 seconds later the thunder arrived.
09:28 eythian drojf: they manage their water better here, part of being below sea level
09:28 LibraryClaire it rained yesterday for 25minutes of my 30 minute run
09:29 drojf good timing
09:29 LibraryClaire the best
09:29 wahanui well, the best is probably the CSS-only one.
09:29 * LibraryClaire pats wahanui
09:29 LibraryClaire meeting...
09:29 wahanui meeting is in two days, i thought was tomorrow. plenty of time then
09:30 eythian https://www.lightningmaps.org/blitzortung/europe/index.php?lang=nl <-- unfortunately the realtime stuff seems to currently be broken
09:30 eythian or the proxy here is being awful
09:31 eythian maybe I should build a lightning detector, I have spare computer things that need projects.
09:34 LibraryClaire no meeting
09:34 drojf the best
09:34 wahanui the best is probably the CSS-only one.
09:37 LibraryClaire yeah
10:53 eythian https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnPUMEZXgAErRbS.jpg:large <-- LibraryClaire
10:54 LibraryClaire that's Larry :)
10:55 LibraryClaire currently the country's most popular politician
10:57 eythian lack of empathy, casual cruelty, self-focused, ... sounds like an appropriate post for a cat then.
10:59 LibraryClaire heh
11:01 LibraryClaire lunch...
11:01 wahanui i heard lunch was a good idea :)
11:01 LibraryClaire :D
12:18 marcelr hi #koha
12:30 LibraryClaire hi marcelr
12:30 marcelr hello LibraryClaire
12:37 test__ Hi, anyone here?
12:51 oleonard Yes test__ , people are here. Do you have a Koha question?
13:06 nengard morning
13:24 test__ oleonard: What kinda things do you guys have in your library?
13:25 oleonard Books, magazines, DVDs, audio CDs, tablets, laptops, bicycles, pocket digital projectors, infrared thermometers
13:25 nengard :)
13:25 nengard I love the bikes
13:25 nengard I talk about that all the time
14:04 Joubu hi #koha
14:05 Joubu Was not supposed to be a meeting now?
14:05 oleonard I thought so
14:05 khall me too
14:06 Joubu :)
14:06 khall cait: dev meeting?
14:06 cait aaaah
14:06 cait sorry
14:06 cait i am here
14:06 cait give me a second
14:07 cait closing my door and pulling up the agenda
14:08 cait #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 13 July 2016
14:08 huginn Meeting started Wed Jul 13 14:08:13 2016 UTC. The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:08 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:08 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_13_july_2016'
14:08 cait #topic Introductions
14:08 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
14:08 cait please introduce yourself following wahanui's example
14:08 Joubu #info Jonathan Druart
14:08 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
14:09 cait today's agenda is at
14:09 cait #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Development_IRC_meeting_13_July_2016
14:09 khall #info Kyle M Hall, ByWater Solutions
14:09 drojf #info Mirko Tietgen, koha.abunchofthings.net
14:10 druthb #info Ruth Bavousett, nobody important.
14:10 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries
14:10 cait moving onto next topic in a moment
14:11 cait #topic announcements
14:11 cait #chair drojf
14:11 huginn Current chairs: cait drojf
14:11 cait backup - as I am at work :)
14:12 cait any announcements?
14:12 drojf not a useful backup today, only here with one eye .)
14:12 cait are you a pirate now?
14:12 cait ok
14:12 drojf heh
14:12 cait moving on to the next one
14:13 cait #topic Review of coding guidelines
14:13 cait Someone has put up a question for discussion:
14:13 cait #info Should cache-only bugs require benchmarks to prove confirm speed improvements?
14:14 Joubu It seems that khall did
14:14 Joubu khall: what's the context?
14:14 wahanui the context is everything?
14:14 cait khall: can you explain a bit about the context please?
14:14 Joubu I think I provide benchmarks for these kind of changes
14:14 khall yes. The idea being that if a patch is only about speed improvements, should the author be required to post data proving there is a speed increase
14:15 khall Joubu does, so we should probably just put it in the guidelines
14:15 marcelr #info Marcel
14:16 Joubu khall: I'd it's like unit tests for method/subroutine changes, if you think your patch adds speed improvements, you must prove it :)
14:16 Joubu say*
14:16 khall Joubu: it sounds like your in favor of it then?
14:17 Joubu yep
14:17 cait hm I must say it sounds logical to me for this kind of patches
14:17 cait I think it's also likely to speed thing up if people see there is somethign to gain
14:17 khall agreed
14:17 marcelr some other patches could use benchmarks too ?
14:17 Joubu we could provide a bunch of lines testing the cache speed
14:19 cait i think we once agreed that if we have doubts about a patch - like if we are afraid it will slow down things significantly, that qa can ask for benchmarks
14:20 cait checking the coding guidelines one sec
14:20 cait hm nothing for speed, benchmark or performance in there...
14:21 Joubu khall: What's the context? Did you ask for a specific patchset?
14:21 khall Joubu: I don't really recall to be honest.
14:22 khall I think if we are going to be able to ask for benchmarks on non-cache patches, the bar should be set fairly high.
14:22 marcelr wouldn't hurt to have a general rule to ask for benchmarks where we doubt
14:22 marcelr but yes, not to quick
14:22 khall Yes, but it's also another hurdle that developers have to jump.
14:23 khall It makes sense for performance patches, but I think we've got plenty of hoops to jump through already ; )
14:23 Joubu I will check if I can add some benchmarks in the qa tools (optional) for QA
14:24 Joubu That could launch a series of tests before and after the patches applied
14:24 Joubu and compare the diff
14:24 khall Joubu: that would be very useful!
14:24 khall that would definitely lower the bar. Thanks!
14:24 cait cool
14:24 cait i will log an action for that :)
14:24 Joubu yes please do :)
14:25 marcelr lots of success :)
14:25 cait #action Joubu is going to check if some performance testing can be included in the qa scripts (launch a series of tests and compare diff)
14:25 cait so shoudl we just add one rule for now?
14:25 cait performance patches should improve performance gain?
14:25 marcelr or: patches should not dramatically impact performance ?
14:25 khall I think so. Should we do a vote?
14:26 cait marcelr: would be nice if that was a given heh :)
14:26 khall marcelr: I think that's a slippery slope ; )
14:26 marcelr whats in a drama
14:27 cait #startvote new coding guideline: performance and chache related patches should include benchmarks of some sort to prove their effects. Question? (yes,no)
14:27 khall ?
14:27 huginn Begin voting on: new coding guideline: performance and chache related patches should include benchmarks of some sort to prove their effects. Question? Valid vote options are , yes, no, .
14:27 huginn Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
14:27 khall #vote yes
14:27 marcelr #vote yes
14:27 Joubu #vote yes
14:27 cait i have to add a question mark somewhere... so it works
14:27 cait #vote yes
14:27 druthb #vote yes
14:27 drojf #vote yes
14:28 oleonard #vote yes
14:28 cait #endvote
14:28 cait #agreed new coding guideline: performance and chache related patches should include benchmarks of some sort to prove their effects.
14:28 huginn Voted on "new coding guideline: performance and chache related patches should include benchmarks of some sort to prove their effects. Question?" Results are
14:28 huginn yes (7): Joubu, cait, oleonard, marcelr, druthb, khall, drojf
14:28 khall @later tell oleonard this looks interesting https://nosir.github.io/cleave.js/
14:28 huginn khall: The operation succeeded.
14:28 cait who is going to add it?
14:28 khall cait: I will
14:28 cait #action khall to add new benchmark rule to the coding guidelines
14:29 cait do we have a page about benchmarking/tools? might be good to link if we have - to give some hints
14:29 cait moving on to next topic
14:29 cait #topic Bugs in discussion
14:29 cait #info Topic: Koha::Patrons::Import (bug 12598) vs Koha::Exporter::Record (bug 14722)
14:29 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12598 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Failed QA , New misc/import_borrowers.pl command line tool
14:29 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14722 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , Refactor the catalogue export tool (command-line tools/export.pl does not work anymore. Use misc/export_records.pl instead)
14:30 cait again, i need some help here about the context please
14:30 Joubu It's just about the name/structure of the import/export new modules we are going to add
14:30 Joubu I have added Koha::Exporter::Record in 14722
14:30 Joubu and 12598 adds a Koha::Patrons::Import
14:30 Joubu that does not make sense to have both
14:31 Joubu we should have either Koha::Exporter::Record(s?) and Koha::Exporter::Patron(s?)
14:31 marcelr consistency++
14:31 Joubu of Koha::Patrons::Export|Import and Koha::Records::Export|Import
14:32 cait i am all for concistency... but I don't have a strong prefrence there
14:32 Joubu My opinion is that having Koha::Exporter|Importer::Stuffs will add the ability to have a Koha::Exporter::Importer to group export/import methods, if we have to
14:32 cait exporter sounds a little odd to me - so from language.. maybe i'd look under patrons first
14:34 khall personally, I like how Koha::Object::Export and Koha::Object::Import read, it really revolves around the object, and not the "Exporter" which is a thing that doesn't exist
14:34 Joubu can be Koha::Import|Export::Objects instead
14:35 khall yep, I don't think either one is really "better" than the other
14:35 Joubu anyone else?
14:36 cait hm
14:36 Joubu khall: no, but it's bad if they both exist :)
14:36 cait i think we have no inheritance, is that right? as kyle said, there is no exporter object?
14:36 Joubu We will want to export in csv, odt, pdf, etc.
14:37 khall Joubu: yes, I agree with that. We should pick one or the other
14:37 Joubu and we will want to centralise some of these functions under the same namespace
14:37 khall Koha::Patron::Export::CSV
14:37 khall vs
14:37 khall Koha::Export::CSV::Patron?
14:37 khall I think the former makes more sense
14:37 Joubu or Koha::Export::Patron::CSV
14:38 khall that's not bad either
14:38 Joubu ok I will ask on the mailing list...
14:38 khall ok, I think we need to just have a majority rule vote. We're bikeshedding ; )
14:38 cait yeah, ask so they pick one
14:38 cait and state it clearly
14:39 Joubu just thought dev meeting would be appropriate to get feedbacks
14:39 khall Joubu: why not just decide now? It's like we're arguing over what color to paint the house ; )
14:39 cait not sure we will have a clear vote
14:39 Joubu as we will get this color for ages, I'd prefer not to have my house pink
14:39 cait i woudl abstain i think - not sure either way
14:39 marcelr it depends on the focus of the code
14:40 cait but... pink is pretty!
14:40 khall I would probably abstain as well
14:40 oleonard_ Yeah, not enough opinionated voters here today I think
14:40 marcelr is the focus export first or patron first ?
14:40 khall cait: you'd like florida then ; )
14:40 cait :)
14:40 drojf not that it matters in any way, but catmandu has Catmandu::Exporter::CSV
14:40 cait i'd say,... ask on the mailing list and count that out after a week or so
14:40 * drojf contributes random information
14:40 * nengard is confused about what we're voting on
14:41 cait ah they have exporter
14:41 Joubu drojf: thanks, I will have a look at their code then
14:41 khall I think drojf brings up a good thought though, I think Koha::Patron::Export::CSV is more "CPAN-like"
14:42 khall but again, I don't think the choice is that important, the consistency is
14:42 cait #action Joubu to ask on the mailing list about which namespace scheme should be used for the 'export things'
14:42 Joubu I have plenty of other questions for devs, so I will shoot all of them in an email to koha-devel
14:42 drojf so we don't have a lot of opinions, but rather none in particular?
14:43 khall now if we built a system where we could import and export arbitrary objects ( patrons, libraries, etc ) then Koha::Export::Patron::CSV would make a lot more sense
14:43 Joubu that was the idea
14:43 khall drojf: I think that's the case. I think Joubu is championing Koha::Export::Patron::CSV
14:43 khall Joubu: ok, I'll through my hat in your ring ; )
14:43 oleonard_ It's hard to plan for what we think we /might/ do in the future.
14:44 khall indeed
14:44 khall so I'm now in favor of Joubu's choice if that matters ; )
14:44 drojf +1 for consistency is my only opinion
14:44 Joubu we have at least patron and record (biblio+auth) and we could add reports, etc.
14:44 drojf so if we have 2 people agreeing on something, i am all for that
14:44 cait ok
14:44 cait so we do vote
14:45 cait #action ... delete last action
14:45 marcelr i vote for mailing list
14:45 vfernandes hi #koha
14:45 cait marcelr: 2 seconds earlier...
14:45 drojf marcelr: do you expect new input on the topic? or just postpone it to "not now"?
14:45 Joubu I will abstain :D
14:45 marcelr more info
14:46 cait so mailing list? or vote this, that, ml? heh
14:46 cait i think it's not super urgent - but shoudl be resolved
14:46 cait so i think mailing list would be ok
14:46 khall agreed
14:46 cait if there is no conclusion, we will have a vote next meeting
14:46 drojf ok
14:46 cait #action ... and action item is in effect again
14:46 vfernandes there is any easy way or any report to verify which records have repeated authorities?
14:46 cait moving on
14:46 oleonard_ vfernandes: we are in a meeting right now
14:46 drojf vfernandes: we are in a meeting
14:46 cait #info Topic: Allow Koha::Objects to be used as hashrefs ( Bug 15759 )
14:46 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15759 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, RESOLVED WONTFIX, Allow Koha::Object derived objects to be used as hashrefs
14:46 Joubu well, we have 2 big patches waiting for QA, so it's not so urgent but...
14:47 cait ah
14:47 Joubu I think authors (me included) would prefer not to rebase them for 1 year :)
14:47 Joubu but I will ask on the ML
14:47 drojf Joubu: you wanted to abstain :P
14:47 vfernandes sorry!
14:47 cait thx
14:47 cait i hope the opinions will be one onse side or the other
14:47 cait so a vote won't be necessary then
14:48 cait so for the next topic there has been some discussion and also on the mailing list
14:49 cait do we need more discussion or are we ready for a vote?
14:49 Joubu khall closed the bug
14:49 * oleonard_ gets a stiff neck from watching all the discussions go over his head
14:50 khall I'd still be open to discussion if anyone is interested
14:50 Joubu so I don't really know if it's stilll valid
14:50 khall I'm be willing to reopen it
14:50 Joubu :)
14:51 khall does everyone here know about bug 15759?
14:52 cait i think i lean more onto not doing it
14:52 * Joubu whispers yes
14:53 khall I think it would give us a *huge* leap on improving our code
14:53 cait for the reasons alex and other stated
14:53 khall the argument against it is "we should be rewriting all that code instead"
14:53 khall but, I must ask, who is going to volunteer to do that?
14:55 Joubu I do!
14:55 Joubu I have plenty of patches waiting for signoff and QA
14:55 Joubu moving code from C4 to Koha
14:56 cait true :)
14:56 Joubu and it will help to manipulate objects and only objects
14:56 Joubu instead of mixing objects and hashrefs
14:56 khall ok, put that in the actions ; )
14:57 Joubu If these patches could be pushed in an easier/quicker way, I could continue the same job for other modules
14:57 khall I think the writing is on the wall for 15759. I thought it was clever and interesting at least.
14:58 khall Joubu: I think we need a special ops team. You to write, someone to sign off, and someone to qa
14:58 khall I'd volunteer for the qa part
14:58 khall if you can find someone for sign-offs, we could add focus and speed to your project
14:58 cait sounds good
14:59 cait I think some are in the signed off state already
14:59 cait I was focusing on the 'bugs' the last 2 days, trying to get back into things
14:59 khall Joubu wil get me the bug numbers and I'll take a look!
14:59 khall we're wandering off topic
14:59 khall shall we move on?
15:00 cait #action khall volunteers to focus on rewrite patches for QA
15:00 cait #action Jobuu to provide a list of bug numbers waiting for QA in that area atm
15:00 cait ok
15:00 cait #topic Deprecate support for Debian Wheezy?
15:01 cait drojf: ?
15:01 drojf i think we agreed that if we want to abandon wheezy at some point, we would have to announce we deprecate support for it before.
15:01 drojf AFAIK, we add more things that won't work in wheezy. like plack out of the box (and all other apache 2.4 related things that may come) and elasticsearch (unless i'm mistaken here)
15:01 drojf so we do not fully support wheezy any longer. do we want to "support" it at all, or just label it deprecated? like, announce it now, drop support for 16.11
15:01 drojf related quetion: are there a lot of people still using wheezy, and for what reasons?
15:01 drojf *question
15:02 khall I think we should just go ahead and deprecate it, and drop support for 16.11
15:03 cait 16.11?
15:03 khall that is, drop official wheezy support in 16.11
15:03 cait aah
15:03 khall too many important things don't work in wheezy
15:03 cait sorry, got confused
15:04 khall np ; )
15:04 drojf 16.11 may be the "ES in koha" release (don't know the status), so i think it would make sense to have the cut then
15:04 cait do we have a kind of list?
15:04 drojf list of what?
15:04 cait so that we coudl say... due to this that and so... it will be deprecated
15:04 khall cait: well, plack and elastic
15:04 cait ok
15:04 cait good list :)
15:04 drojf and apache 2.4 in general
15:04 cait shall we vote on that?
15:04 cait what woudl be the consequences? a note in the release notes
15:04 khall drojf: indeed!
15:05 cait not fixing bugs related only to wheezy?
15:05 drojf not backporting whatever things. from the packaging side
15:05 drojf because those might get a lot
15:05 cait ok
15:06 oleonard Does it have the potential to exclude Koha users because they are unable to upgrade for some reason?
15:06 drojf it will probably work for a while, apart from some things. don#t know. i would not mind backporting security stuff for a little longer. but not all of catmandu and things like that
15:06 cait #info Deprecating Wheezy because of problems with ES, Plack, Apache 2.4 - will mean: note in release notes, not fixing bugs specific to wheezy, not backporting from packaging side
15:06 drojf oleonard: i don't know and i don't know how we could find out about it
15:07 cait probably they shoudl be using a supported current OS
15:07 drojf what is a valid reason not to uprade your server operating system?
15:07 cait ?
15:07 cait shoudl we vote?
15:07 khall drojf: I don't think there is one ; )
15:07 khall cait: yes, I think we should vote
15:08 cait #startvote Should we officially deprecate Debian Wheezy? (yes,no,abstain)
15:08 huginn Begin voting on: Should we officially deprecate Debian Wheezy? Valid vote options are , yes, no, abstain, .
15:08 huginn Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
15:08 eythian if you vote no, you are offering to support it :)
15:08 khall #vote yes
15:08 drojf #vote yes
15:08 cait #vote yes
15:08 drojf lol eythian
15:08 Joubu #vote yes
15:08 cait done?
15:09 cait #endvote
15:09 huginn Voted on "Should we officially deprecate Debian Wheezy?" Results are
15:09 huginn yes (4): Joubu, cait, drojf, khall
15:09 cait #agreed Wheezy is officially deprecated
15:09 cait #action bag to add a note to the next release notes
15:09 bag woot
15:09 cait ok?
15:09 drojf so long, wheezy
15:09 cait moving on
15:09 cait and hi bag ;)
15:10 cait #topic General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...)
15:10 bag hola
15:10 cait ther is nothing listed under this topic
15:10 cait does someone have something he/she wants to add?
15:10 Joubu 4 votes for deprecating wheezy...
15:10 khall I'm interested in thoughts on Angular vs React
15:11 khall I think the nature of Koha would make React better suited
15:11 cait React seems to be somewhat... hotter? right now - but I don't have any technical knowledge/views :(
15:11 drojf Joubu: none against it :P
15:11 Joubu (The rewrite work is on https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/showdependencygraph.cgi?id=15449, but I have already paste this number thousands of times)
15:11 cait but maybe... pick only one please
15:11 khall cait: exactly
15:11 cait Joubu: if someone wants to fight the decision... they always can next meeting :)
15:11 khall I think React is a better fit because:
15:12 cait #info Topic: thoughts on Angular vs React
15:12 khall a) we already have a code base, Angular is more happy being the app, it doesn't share well ; )
15:12 khall b) React is all about create "widgets" which we could re-use from page to page
15:13 khall so it would greatly simplify our code if we used react
15:13 khall Consider the patron info sidebar, that could be converted to a React widget that could be used across multiple pages
15:13 khall or the checkouts table, or the holds table
15:13 khall we just tell the widget "show the data for this patron" and it does it's thing
15:14 khall I'm sure it's possible with Angular as well, but Angular is much "heavier"
15:14 khall I think we need to pick just one
15:14 drojf i'm happy to learn a little of one of them. after you decide what you want to use ;) not qualified to pick one
15:15 Joubu kivilahtio presented the diff between these 2 frameworks and his conclusion was the same as yours: React is better
15:15 khall React is also easier to learn
15:15 wahanui okay, khall.
15:15 Joubu I dont remember the details, but he had a big list of pros/cons
15:15 drojf i like easier to learn
15:15 khall excellent! Just looking for input, I don't want to code myself into a corner ; )
15:16 oleonard khall: Are you interested enough in it to put together a proof of concept?
15:16 Joubu what I was going to ask for
15:16 cait would it make sense to ask kivilahtio for his list?
15:16 khall oleonard: yes, that's the plan! I'm going to start with something small
15:16 cait can i action that?
15:16 cait :)
15:16 khall I wrote the item messages feature using Angular, I'll rewrite it using React
15:16 khall cait: sure!
15:17 oleonard Yes, coordinating with kivilahtio sounds sensible
15:17 Joubu khall: does it make sense to use React to call the rest api?
15:17 cait #action khall to provide a proof of concept for using React in Koha
15:17 khall Joubu: yes, I think that should absolutely be done
15:17 cait #info more information in chat log about this - not easy to info all :)
15:17 khall *but* first we need to get the API enabled by default
15:17 Joubu in that case, I am waiting for an example on bug 14974 for month
15:17 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14974 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Patch doesn't apply , Use the REST API for cities
15:17 Joubu :)
15:17 khall also a good reason to move on from wheezy to jessie
15:18 cait i'd be happy if we could do a little api tutorial sometime
15:18 cait one of the things I didn't achieve at the hackfest... missed out on that
15:18 khall cait: I think that's an excellent idea!
15:18 cait how to activate, how to test, how to validate... whatever comes to mind
15:18 khall I volunteer Julian ; )
15:19 khall let's vote on that since he's not here : ) =
15:19 oleonard I hate to see any major changes to our JavaScript infrastructure before we get a front-end build tool in place.
15:19 khall oleonard: how's that going?
15:20 khall what do we want to use? Gulp and Bower?
15:21 oleonard We never reached a consensus, although pianohacker volunteered to build custom packages for something like Gulp if that would move it forward.
15:22 oleonard I'm not really familiar with Bower
15:22 khall I think Gulp is the way to go. Bower is great for js deps. We could manage all our libraries using Bower. jQuery and such
15:22 cait #info cait would be interested in an online api tutorial - how to set it up, test, validate etc.
15:23 khall oleonard: it's like apt-get but for javascript libraries
15:23 cait shudl we put this as a topic on the next agenda?
15:23 cait or maybe ask for ideas on the mailing list?
15:24 khall both I think
15:24 khall oleonard: would you be willing to start a mailing list thread?
15:24 cait #action khall to add react/angular and frontend build to to next agenda ;)
15:25 cait oleonard? :)
15:25 oleonard Yes
15:25 khall thanks!
15:26 oleonard gro
15:26 oleonard whoops, focus!
15:28 cait #action oleonard to start a mailing list thread about the frontend build tool
15:28 cait ok sorry
15:29 cait moving on
15:29 Joubu I have a question, if we have finished with the this topic
15:29 cait ah ok
15:29 cait go for it :)
15:29 Joubu How can we motivate other devs to attempt dev meetings?
15:29 Joubu :D
15:29 drojf by deprecating stuff when they are not looking
15:29 Joubu just kidding, you can move on something else
15:29 cait hehe yes
15:29 cait ok
15:29 morgane bye !
15:30 cait #topic Updates from the QA team
15:30 khall ha!
15:31 cait first... sorry for the absence - I hope to improve on that
15:31 cait and a thank you to Joubu for his summaries
15:31 cait i think they contain a lot of good info
15:31 cait Joubu: do you have something for QA?
15:31 cait ah... I had wanted to compile a list about mysql 5.x bugs - but I didn't get to it
15:32 Joubu The last 2 months I have sent a "what's on in koha-devel" email
15:32 cait I'd like to get some focus on them if possible
15:32 cait we have a lto of people ignoring the warning in the release notes or not reading it
15:32 Joubu to summarise what's happen on bugzilla and koha-devel ML
15:33 Joubu like that devs won't have excuse not to follow/know what is going on
15:33 Joubu I have started the move of C4::Members to Koha::Patrons
15:33 cait Joubu++
15:33 Joubu see bug 16846 and related
15:33 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=16846 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, ASSIGNED , Move patron related code to Koha::Patron
15:34 cait #info read Joubu's summary emails "what's on in koha-devel"! :)
15:34 cait #info Joubu started move of C4::Members to Koha::Patrons
15:34 Joubu and the others on the graph I paste earlier
15:35 cait are we ready to se tthe date for the next meeting?
15:36 cait #topic Set time of next meeting
15:36 reiveune bye
15:36 cait the next general meeting is august 3
15:36 cait maybe a week after?
15:36 cait august 10?
15:36 Joubu k
15:36 cait which time?
15:36 wahanui it has been said that which time is better for my area? 10:00+0000 or 22:00+0000?
15:36 cait 21 utc ?
15:36 wahanui somebody said 21 utc was fine and might be better for local time adjustments.
15:37 cait rather late in europe... better in other places
15:37 Joubu wow, not ok :)
15:37 cait 19 utc?
15:37 wahanui somebody said 19 utc was fine by me.
15:37 Joubu I don't know, I let you decide
15:38 Joubu still late for me, but if it can help to get other devs, it's ok for me (who?)
15:38 cait let's try
15:38 cait trying to see what that is in nz but failing
15:39 cait hm 7 am
15:39 cait #agreed next meeting will take place on august 10 at 19 UTC
15:39 cait if it doesn't work out, we will set another date close
15:39 cait #endmeeting
15:39 huginn Meeting ended Wed Jul 13 15:39:29 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
15:39 huginn Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2016/development_irc_meeting_13_july_2016.2016-07-13-14.08.html
15:39 huginn Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2016/development_irc_meeting_13_july_2016.2016-07-13-14.08.txt
15:39 huginn Log: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2016/development_irc_meeting_13_july_2016.2016-07-13-14.08.log.html
15:39 cait thx all for attending
15:39 cait a general question: has anyone worked with sorting in zebra?
15:40 cait as specially stuff that shoudl not sort? :)
15:40 * drojf heads home
15:40 drojf #later #koha
15:41 khall bye!
15:55 gaetan_B bye
16:02 oleonard Oh yeah, now I remember why I went down the rabbit hole of removing "onclick"
16:03 oleonard Not just good practice, but a precursor to moving JS out of the header and into the footer
16:22 cait ie--
16:23 cait oleonard: can you tell why $("option[value*='acqdate']").hide(); wouldn't work in IE but does in firefox?
16:23 cait it doesn't seem to like using the attribute as a selector... is my guess... but gr.
16:23 cait i am trying tot hide the acquisition date sort for an archive - it doesn't make sense for them
16:24 cait i try to avoid using the text - as I need mroe lines for german and english then and any other language that might get added
16:25 oleonard cait: What page? And which version of IE?
16:26 cait the result list in opac
16:26 cait or the advanced search page
16:26 cait 3.22 koha
16:27 cait ie 1
16:27 cait 11
16:33 oleonard cait: No I don't know why it doesn't work.
16:34 oleonard ...but it's just two <option>s right? So you could run two commands with specific values instead.
16:44 cait oleonard-away: hm?
16:45 cait oleonard-away: sorry, was dealing with another ticket...
16:45 cait oleonard-away: translations change, so avoiding going for the text woudl have been nice
16:48 cait oleonard++ thx for taking a look
16:50 cait $("option:contains('Acquisition date')").hide(); doesn't work either :(
16:51 cait oleonard-away: changing remove to hide worked... ...
16:51 cait hm hide to remove
16:52 kidclamp wrap the option in a span then hide cait, that seems to work better
16:52 cait adding an element and then hide it?
16:52 cait i hate IE.
16:52 cait $("option:contains('Acquisition date')").remove();
16:52 cait $("option:contains('Erwerbungsdatum')").remove(); works apparently
16:53 kidclamp yeah {selector}.wrap(<span>).hide()
16:53 cait i will keep that in mind
16:53 kidclamp ti works sometimes with out, the span seems to guarantee
16:53 kidclamp ie--
16:53 cait it's still really odd
16:53 kidclamp :-)
16:54 cait thx for sharing the trick kidclamp++
16:54 kidclamp np
18:30 tcohen hi
18:31 kidclamp hi tcohen
18:31 pianohacker hi tcohen!
18:32 pianohacker tcohen: Iiiiiii have a question for you :)
18:32 tcohen shoot
18:33 tcohen pianohacker: i was born like that, no point trying to fix me
18:33 tcohen (if that was the question)
18:33 pianohacker tcohen: how hard would it be to make __MEMCACHED_*__ replaced in apache-shared-*-plack.conf on debian?
18:33 pianohacker heh
18:33 pianohacker same here man
18:34 tcohen you mean like having one of those files per-instance?
18:35 tcohen the apache-shared-*.conf files are there in a way we can patch them on upgrade
18:35 tcohen they are reused on all instances
18:36 tcohen and the plack ones
18:36 tcohen started using apache variables for the instance names
18:37 pianohacker hmmmm
18:37 drojf hi tcohen and pianohacker
18:37 pianohacker tcohen: could apache variables work for the memcached namespace?
18:37 pianohacker hi drojf !
18:37 tcohen pianohacker: look at apache-site.conf.in
18:37 drojf we deprecated wheezy at the dev meeting and drop support at 16.11. do all complaining and/or happy dances now
18:38 * bag happy dancer
18:38 tcohen pianohacker: and then how we use it in apache-shared-*-plack.conf
18:38 tcohen ${instance}
18:39 pianohacker wooooooooooooohah
18:40 tcohen so generated files cannot be patched (for now)
18:40 tcohen but the plack ones can
18:40 tcohen they are just included and make use of variables to solve this
18:42 pianohacker hmmm
18:42 * drojf expected a happy dance from tcohen :P
18:42 pianohacker (of course, all of this becomes irrelephant if we put memcached back in koha-conf)
18:43 * tcohen dances happily!
18:44 tcohen drojf: that's really good news
18:44 tcohen is anyone using rfid cards for their patrons?
18:46 drojf i'm not, but interested in the question
18:48 drojf unless that was the question :P
18:50 pianohacker tcohen: are the debian memcached namespace and server consistent enough that we could hardcode them with instance variables?
18:50 pianohacker *apache variables
19:06 tcohen pianohacker: we let the users set the namespace prefix
19:06 tcohen which defaults to koha_
19:06 tcohen and cannot imagine people changing it
19:08 pianohacker hmmmmmmmm
19:08 oleonard cait: I use this to hide publication date: $("option[value='pubdate_asc']").remove();
19:08 pianohacker I may just bug 16218 a dep of memcached-in-koha-conf
19:08 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=16218 trivial, P5 - low, ---, veron, Pushed to Stable , printfeercpt.tt (and others) does not include jQuery
19:08 oleonard The value doesn't change with translations
19:08 pianohacker woops
19:08 cait oleonard: i tried that - but it only worekd when i changed hide to remove
19:08 pianohacker bug 16520
19:08 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=16520 minor, P5 - low, ---, jweaver, Failed QA , Per-virtualhost SetEnvs don't work with Plack
19:08 cait so it might not have been the selector all along
19:09 cait pianohacker: so hard to fix?
19:11 cait oleonard: figured it out after you had left
19:13 cait oleonard++
19:40 nuentoter so after looking and looking i have a couple questions, is there a listing somewhere of all the possible authorized values categories?
19:40 nuentoter and is that where i would go to edit the "search category" field in the item types?
19:40 drojf i doubt it. as you can create whatever authorized value you want
19:41 oleonard drojf: True, but there are authorized values which some features require but which are not created by default in Koha
19:41 oleonard That's where the gap is.
19:41 nuentoter i know you can create new ones from thin air, but i do believe there are many not implemented by default in the available listing
19:41 drojf true. UPLOAD comes to mind as an annoying example
19:42 nuentoter yeah like oleonard said lol, is there a page that lists them all?
19:42 drojf if by "page" you mean bugzilla, i am sure it's all in there
19:42 oleonard No there isn't nuentoter, not that I know of.
19:43 drojf but somewhere in 16000 bugs
19:43 drojf not a single one :P
19:43 drojf but…
19:43 drojf awesome quest for a community contribution. find them all, add them to the wiki. for the greater good
19:44 nuentoter ok then i thought my google skills were just lacking, second question to edit the list of "search categories" that show up under the item types list, where do i go?
19:46 nuentoter oh wow nm i just lack reading skills
19:49 oleonard Interesting that ITEMTYPECAT exists with not values but UPLOAD simply doesn't exist.
19:49 oleonard I guess that's a bug!
19:50 drojf it's the only one that i had to add 20 times to show stuff. does not mean there are no others, but that one bugs me
19:51 oleonard In other news, I have no idea what "search categories" are supposed to do
19:53 oleonard Nothing in the help file either
19:53 cait oleonard: group itemtypes for search
19:54 cait say you have dvd and video
19:54 cait youcould create a group 'fillm'
19:54 cait you put both itemtypes in it
19:54 cait and then the advanced search will only show film as a limit
19:54 cait and it will search both itemtypes when you click it
19:55 oleonard cait: And it will hide the individual item types you grouped together?
19:55 cait yep
19:55 cait not from other pages, i think, but it works on the advanced search
19:55 cait it will also use th icon from the authorised value
19:56 cait we set it up in 3.22 just yesterday for a library - so still fresh on my mind:)
19:57 oleonard I wish that worked for collection codes too
19:57 oleonard Maybe that's why I wasn't aware of it.
19:58 cait yeah it would be nice to add that
19:58 cait and also the translation feature that we have for itemtpes now
19:58 cait i'd really like that for authorisedvalues
19:58 cait but probably needsto be done one by one... lots of work
19:58 drojf i thought i tested that for authorized values
19:59 cait only itemtypes i think - at least i haven't seen the other bug
19:59 drojf hm maybe i am just confused. which is very likely
20:01 rangi morning
20:02 oleonard Hi rangi
20:03 drojf cait: https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14063#c4 (yay not confused but i think we don't have it)
20:03 huginn 04Bug 14063: enhancement, P3, ---, veron, RESOLVED DUPLICATE, Implement language overlay for authorised values
20:03 cait morning rangi
20:04 drojf hi rangi
20:05 oleonard drojf: That bug is a duplicate of a bug which is marked as fixed.... But fixed in what way?
20:08 cait maybe a confusion
20:08 cait the itemtype bug first was phrased very general
20:08 drojf oleonard: not sure, only skimmed through it, but i don't think it fixed authorized values
20:15 oleonard cait: I agree that the Admin preferences patch is a step back from the point of view of the settings being incorporated into sentences
20:15 oleonard I assumed based on the patch that this system wasn't working well for languages other than English. Is that not the case?
20:16 cait you have to get creative sometimes... because you can't change sequence
20:16 cait but it's a lot of translation work this will cause too
20:16 cait good to give it some thought
20:17 oleonard Does splitter not link directly to bug reports from anywhere?
20:18 cait oleonard: hm?
20:18 oleonard yy
20:18 oleonard Sorry
20:18 oleonard I'm bad at keyboards today
20:19 cait i had a long day - i might not be thinking very clearly :)
20:19 cait waht did you mean to say?
20:19 oleonard Where splitter lists the bug reports which modify a file... It doesn't seem to link to the bug report, just to the attachment
20:20 cait ah
20:20 cait maybe because it takes the attachements as base for figuring it out
20:20 cait but it shows the number i think
20:20 cait i shoudl totally use it more
20:34 mveron Good evening / daytime #koha
20:35 rangi hi mveron
20:35 mveron hi rangi
20:37 drojf hi mveron
20:37 mveron hi drojf
21:35 tcohen hi
21:35 tcohen we'll miss you nengard!
22:00 bag general_meeting?
22:00 talljoy general meeting?
22:00 wahanui general meeting is 8 April 2015 at 19:00 UTC
22:00 bag heya cait do you know when the next general meeting is
22:04 wizzyrea isn't it on the wiki?
22:04 talljoy lazyweb
22:09 cait it is on the wiki :)
22:09 cait i think first week of august
22:18 tcohen is anyone using RFID cards for their patrons?
22:19 rangi HDC does
22:20 rangi te takere
22:20 tcohen hi rangi
22:20 tcohen hdc?
22:20 rangi horowhenua district council
22:20 tcohen who can I talk to about it?
22:21 rangi we host their Koha, so me?
22:21 rangi why?
22:21 tcohen i'd like to know how you hook it into KOha
22:21 rangi self check machines
22:21 rangi or any other rfid reader
22:21 tcohen and store the RFID as carnumber?
22:21 rangi koha doesnt even know/car
22:21 rangi e
22:22 rangi it sees everythign as input from a webbrowser
22:22 rangi it has no idea how it got into that web browser
22:22 rangi (or as a SIP transaction)
22:22 tcohen yeah, but you use what is read, as a cardnumber
22:22 tcohen right?
22:22 rangi yup
22:22 tcohen this library uses the patron's national ID right now
22:23 tcohen they should just move it somewhere else I guess...
22:23 tcohen and then, patrons loose their cards
22:23 tcohen so what's the workflow?
22:23 rangi scan a card
22:23 rangi like you would scan a barcode
22:23 rangi then end ;)
22:24 rangi the reader does all the work
22:24 rangi theres usually a bit of software that comes with the reader
22:24 tcohen yes, I know how the checkout would work
22:24 tcohen problem is patron DB maintenance
22:24 rangi that understand how it is stored and stuff on the card
22:24 rangi that doesnt change
22:24 rangi the card just has cardnumber
22:25 rangi if you put more info on the card .. then you are asking for trouble
22:25 tcohen ah
22:25 tcohen so that's all I need to know
22:25 tcohen i thought people relied on the ID of the RFID card
22:26 tcohen so that's it, thanks
22:27 rangi ahhh naw, you want to store your own id on it, lose a card, just put the id on another one
22:28 rangi otherwise you're stuck forever :)
22:28 tcohen yeah, they were concerned about people re-using lost cards to cheat
22:28 tcohen so they wanted to rely on their unique ID
22:29 tcohen thus the need for a workflow for assgning new id's to patrons+
22:29 rangi you could do it that way
22:29 rangi its just the same as if someone loses a card with a preprinted barcode, and you ahve to give them another
22:29 rangi you change the number in Koha
22:29 rangi lots of libraries already do that
22:29 wizzyrea it's the standard way, really.
22:30 wizzyrea but you can't change a "national ID number" so you'd probably need a different one.
22:30 rangi yeah
22:30 wizzyrea I can't think of a way to keep the ID number, but expire the card that carries it
22:31 rangi the thing with barcode, you can store one thing
22:31 rangi with rfid, you can store multiple
22:32 rangi you can have national id number, library number, whatever else .. all on the same chip
22:32 tcohen rangi: the hardware probably lets you choose a cdefault field
22:32 wizzyrea if you can do that then it'll be fine.
22:32 * tcohen has no idea of course
22:34 rangi yep
22:34 rangi every 'system' does it a bit differently, and you pretty much have to have their software to read the chips
22:37 tcohen thanks wizzyrea rangi
22:38 rangi no problem
22:45 tcohen could we add https://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ewd02xx/EWD215.PDF to the coding guidelines at some point?
22:46 rangi we have goto ?
22:46 tcohen sure
22:46 rangi that's already against all guidelines ever
22:46 tcohen overdue_notices.pl:591
22:47 rangi you wouldn't think that would have to be explicitly spelt out
22:47 tcohen it is a hidden goto
22:47 tcohen nah, a goto
22:48 wizzyrea oh, if you are poking in overdue_notices you are already down the rabbit hole.
22:49 rangi the next?
22:49 wahanui well, the next is packaging manager... do we have a volunteer for that?
22:49 rangi thats a continue, not a goto
22:51 tcohen I hate my mother's wifi router
22:51 rangi hehe
22:52 * tcohen read the logs
22:52 tcohen you are right
22:52 rangi still confusing though
22:53 tcohen i hate it too :-D hehe
22:53 tcohen will work on 'overdue_notices.pl should have a test mode' bug, will try to refactor it abit
22:55 rangi sweet
22:56 tcohen C4/AuthoritiesMarc.pm and sms_listen.pl have goto's :-D
23:40 * dcook is just going to leave this here: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XR23o6rnjjI/Vwp5F_dkytI/AAAAAAAEE-I/SvaggctTIKg_fCcZkFtopH3TzJoYj80MQ/w426-h237/7b6949a30870c9f9.gif
23:40 dcook eythian: ^
23:41 wizzyrea hahahahahahaha
23:41 dcook Best. Thing. Ever.
23:42 wizzyrea that ending tho
23:47 Francesca see you guys soon!
23:50 bag yeah that’s pretty awesome dcook