Time Nick Message 06:51 reiveune hello 06:56 drojf morning 07:00 alex_a bonjour 07:00 wahanui bonjour, alex_a 07:46 LibraryClaire morning #koha 07:59 gaetan_B hello 07:59 wahanui privet, gaetan_B 08:09 drojf meeting in 2 hours? 08:11 cait yep 08:11 cait i might be a little late 08:11 cait drojf: could you chair if I don't make it on time? 08:11 cait I have another meeting at work before the koha meeting 08:16 drojf cait: depending on UPS i have to leave the office for half an hour at an unknown time :( somebody decided to not show up as planned yesterday 08:16 cait ah 08:16 drojf i have no idea when this will be 08:16 cait so i need to find a second backup :) 08:16 drojf i can start the meeting if its not ŕight then 08:16 cait yep please do then 08:17 cait if i am late, it should not be by much 08:17 drojf they also decided to not answer my email and you need to agree to 100 (!) pages of terms and services to choose a deliver date, wtf 08:17 drojf dear kids at home, never use UPS 08:17 cait heh 08:35 sophie_m hello #koha 08:36 sophie_m I have difficulties to find release notes of old releases of Koha. Is there a way to have a list of those ? 09:58 cait here 09:58 cait sophie_m: did you look in koha itself? 09:58 cait sophie_m: which version are you missing? 09:58 cait sophie_m: the major releases relese notes are all shipped in master, the in between bugfixes in the branches i think 09:59 * Oak waves 10:00 ikourmou hello 10:00 wahanui bonjour, ikourmou 10:01 cait hi ikourmou :) 10:01 cait it's time 10:01 cait let's get started 10:01 ikourmou @cait: is it possible to discuss KohaCon16 a little bit later? 10:01 huginn ikourmou: I'll give you the answer as soon as RDA is ready 10:01 sophie_m cait : we are translating all release notes for our clients. Looking into Koha implies to checkout each release. Wouldn't it be possible to have a link on the release notes page in the wiki with the old releases ? 10:02 cait maybe something for the meeting :) 10:02 cait #startmeeting General IRC meeting 6 April 2016 10:02 huginn Meeting started Wed Apr 6 10:02:49 2016 UTC. The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 10:02 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 10:02 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'general_irc_meeting_6_april_2016' 10:02 mveron Hi #koha 10:02 cait #topic Introductions 10:02 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient 10:02 ikourmou I have a meeting with the University Dean right now, but I also want to inform you on the Kohacon preparation progress 10:03 cait please introduce yourself with #info, followuing wahanui's example 10:03 drojf #info Mirko Tietgen, Berlin, Germany 10:03 cait ikourmou: if we do kohacon first, would that work for you? 10:03 mveron #info Marc Véron, marc veron ag, Allschwil, Switzerland 10:03 drojf hi mveron 10:03 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany 10:03 LibraryClaire #info Claire Gravely, UAL, UK 10:03 ikourmou I would be glad if we could talk about it in an hour or so... 10:03 Oak #info Arslan Farooq, Islamabad, Pakistan 10:03 davidnind #info David Nind, Wellington, New Zealand 10:03 cait ikourmou: i can push it to the end, but not sure it will last an hour this time :) 10:04 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City 10:04 cait mabe come back and people interested will still be around? 10:04 drojf we can make it last an hour :P 10:04 cait #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting_6_April_2016 10:04 ikourmou #info Giannis Kourmoulis, AUTh, Greece 10:04 ikourmou ok, thanks. I will try to be back ASAP 10:04 cait ok :) 10:05 cait let's wait for 2 more minutes then move 10:05 cait on 10:05 Oak [off] I'll have to leave in 20 minutes :-| Please excuse me in advance. 10:06 * drojf throws coffee at bag 10:06 cait drojf: he won't attend - 3 am :) 10:06 drojf more coffee!1 10:07 cait kidclamp: #info! :) 10:07 kidclamp #info Nick Clemens, ByWater Solutions 10:07 kidclamp morning cait 10:07 kidclamp and all 10:07 cait #topic Announcements 10:07 cait so, any announcements? :) 10:08 Oak related to koha? 10:08 cait yes, or anything else that fits here 10:09 cait bag told me he thinks about having an ES bug sqash/test day 10:09 cait so keep an eye out for that 10:09 cait anything else? 10:09 wahanui well, anything else is just being crap 10:10 * drojf throws coffee at jajm 10:10 * drojf throws coffee all around ;) 10:11 cait aggressive germans... :) 10:11 cait ok, moving on 10:11 drojf nooo. coffee is love :) 10:11 cait #topic Update on releases 10:11 cait one sec, looking for a link 10:13 cait #info Freeze dates for 16.05 have been set: Feature freeze - April 28th and Release on May 26 10:13 cait #link http://lists.koha-community.org/pipermail/koha-devel/2016-March/042559.html 10:13 cait the queues are looking ok'ish right now 10:13 cait but there is a lot stuck in failed qa 10:13 cait and also a lot of nice things waiting for sign-off 10:14 cait Needs Signoff - 136, 20 bugs 10:14 cait Failed QA - 251 10:14 cait Patch Doesn't apply - 82 10:14 cait GBSD went well I think - thx everyone for attending! :) 10:15 cait anything else people woud like to add? 10:16 cait drojf: more coffee throwing please! 10:16 cait moving on 10:16 kidclamp :-) 10:16 cait #topic Hackfest in Berlin 10:16 cait drojf: ? 10:16 Oak white shirt here, cait! 10:17 drojf i got ~10 registrations so far and another two or three pending (of up to ~20), which is pretty cool 10:17 cait #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Berlin_Hackfest_2016 10:17 drojf apart from that… we got the catmandu workshop, we might have a workshop or talk about ILL if atheia can join us 10:17 drojf (maybe magnuse would like to tell something about the norway part too if he can attend?) 10:17 cait #info 10 registrations so far 10:17 cait #info catmandu workshop will happen, other workshops pending 10:18 drojf i think that is it basically 10:18 cait will you advertise on the german mailing list too? 10:18 drojf yes. did not get to that yet 10:18 drojf but i will 10:18 thd Any plans to record informational presentations from HackFest? 10:18 cait I sent the link to a few people - but i think we can get to 20 easily :) 10:19 drojf i think there will be more demand than places easily 10:20 cait is 20 a super hard limit? 10:21 drojf no. there maybe be options for a few more, but not all in one room then 10:21 drojf depending on the weather there is a terrace we can use and i might talk my office mates into sharing that too 10:21 cait cool 10:21 drojf but i would look into that once it is relevant 10:22 cait yeha makes sense 10:22 * cait will be attending :) 10:22 drojf thd: you mean audio/video? that is not planned 10:22 drojf i think we got nz, usa, italy, hopefully uk and maybe norway so far. well and germany of course 10:23 thd drojf: Yes, I mean more or less impromptu introductions to something as tend to occur at hackfests. 10:23 cait drojf: netherlands? 10:23 drojf ah right, still count eythian as nz :D 10:24 cait an incomplete list canbe found here: https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Kohacon_2016:_Who_is_arriving_when 10:24 drojf that is very incomplete 10:24 cait yeah, people should add themselves :) 10:25 cait i think everyone can tell... i am very excited about this event - and also about kohacon, but we will talk about that later when ikourmou is back 10:25 drojf thd: i do not really have equipment for that. if there are presentations (like slides and stuff) i guess that can be shared 10:25 cait if we take any notes/draw up something that could be shared too 10:26 cait anything else? 10:26 wahanui somebody said anything else was just being crap 10:26 drojf i think that is all 10:26 thd People seldom have anything as formal as slides for hackfest introductions to some technical issues. Anything that might ... 10:26 drojf for now 10:27 cait #chair drojf 10:27 huginn Current chairs: cait drojf 10:27 thd help with sharing useful stuff more widely would be good. 10:27 drojf thd: if people take notes and want to make them public we can put them in the wiki 10:28 drojf but i can't promise anything, it depends on the people taking part :) 10:28 thd drojf: Of course ;) 10:28 drojf i hope we got some kind of writeuo in the end to see what we have done :) 10:28 drojf writeup 10:29 * cait can try to help with that 10:29 drojf so we skip kohacon 16? 10:29 cait but maybe poke me/remind me about it 10:30 cait i think we skip kohacon16 for now and see when ikourmou comes back 10:30 drojf yep 10:30 cait moving on 10:30 cait #topic Rules for announcements to the main mailinglist 10:30 drojf we could have done kohacon 17 ;) 10:31 drojf anyway 10:31 drojf my notes are gone 10:31 cait hm? 10:31 drojf simple question is, do we want some kind of rules for recurring announcements on the mailing list or do people not care? 10:32 cait it seems ot have settled down a bit now 10:32 farooq hello 10:32 wahanui hola, farooq 10:32 drojf personally i think its a little much on a list with not too much traffic to have announcements for an event like every five days, as it happened lately. but that was probably the only event where that ever happened 10:32 farooq i m trying to import data.. in koha library system 10:33 cait hi farooq - we are having an irc meeting right now - can you please come back with your question in half an hour or so? 10:33 thd What kind of rules has anyone thought might be necessary or helpful. 10:33 drojf and i know i am easily annoyed by such things, basically i'd like to know if others are too or if i just filter such things when they happen 10:33 cait you can of course stay and listen in 10:33 ikourmou I'm back 10:33 farooq ok sure 10:33 farooq thank you 10:33 cait i think that case was a little annoying, but maybe don't need a rule yet 10:34 drojf thd: something simple like "do not repeat announcements more often than every 2 weeks" or somehting like that 10:34 cait and see if that is a repeeating thing 10:35 drojf we are not really many people today anyway, maybe i send the question to the list instead 10:35 thd Anyone announcing something every five days where the interval seems disproportionate might simply be sent a simple private reminder about being more polite on a fairly low traffic list. 10:35 davidnind I tend to filter, but I think the recent example was probably a "one off" (hopefully) 10:35 kidclamp thd +1 10:36 thd If there has only been one incident that people can site of something without grave harm, making rules at this point would seem to be overkill. 10:36 drojf thd: i sent a reminder and got a snarky remark 10:36 drojf like "its different info now" which was not true 10:36 drojf which i found even more annoying 10:36 drojf and then they switched the person sending it 10:36 cait ok, seems there is soem tendency to not 'rule' it for now, but also that it is in fact annoying if it happens more often? 10:37 drojf the problem with filterin is, you miss the point where it is annoying for everyone 10:37 thd How 'moderated' is the Koha list currently? 10:37 drojf but i am not the list admin, so… 10:38 cait thd: to my knowledge not moderated if you are subscribed 10:38 drojf thd: i think "not". only mails that are not on the list are moderated, otherwise i don't remember any interference 10:39 thd There have been triggers for moderation in the past for too many CCs. 10:39 thd Usually examined and passed with some delay. 10:39 drojf ok so we wait and see if it happens again and leave it for now? 10:39 cait and back you up next time it happens 10:40 davidnind okay with me 10:40 drojf so, kohacon then? 10:40 thd Even a rule for this annoying incident would need some work to achieve the intended effect if people are ignoring a polite request for politeness. 10:41 cait #info wait and see if there are more repeated announcements, leaving it for now 10:41 cait yes 10:41 cait #topic KohaCon16 10:41 cait ikourmou: please start :) 10:41 drojf thd: if there is a rule (or at least i know there are others that think its annoying) it is easier to ask people to stop 10:41 drojf otherwise its maybe just me ;) 10:41 ikourmou ok, thanks for waiting for me! 10:41 ikourmou We have just published the program 10:42 ikourmou http://kohacon2016.lib.auth.gr/?page_id=2417 10:42 drojf oops i think i missed the deadline for the final abstract 10:42 ikourmou we have 170 people registered already 10:42 cait #link http://kohacon2016.lib.auth.gr/?page_id=2417 10:43 cait very cool, might be the biggest one so far 10:43 ikourmou We seem to be reaching the venue limits... 10:43 drojf how many people can get in? i thought you said ~175? 10:43 cait you might have to account for a few people not showing up - it seems that was some factor in the past 10:43 ikourmou and the registrations deadline is the 22nd of April 10:43 ikourmou yes, it's about 175 10:44 drojf will you have a wait list once its full? 10:44 davidnind a nice "problem" to have! 10:44 cait #info deadline for registrations i April 22nd 10:44 drojf there will probably people cancellinhg 10:44 drojf *be 10:45 cait or not cancelling - from what i remember in argentina and reno some just didn't show ... so it might be ok to add a little on top 10:45 ikourmou yes, we think that even if 200 people register, we could manage 10:45 drojf yeah that is a problem with free events 10:45 drojf not everyone will be in all the time 10:45 ikourmou we don't have any particular problems on the preparation side 10:46 ikourmou I think it goes well so far 10:46 drojf what are your next actions? 10:46 drojf to obvious things seem to be covered 10:46 farooq sorry, i need some urgent solution if possible.. i m getting following error, when i try to upload .mrc file to import data in koha......... error: Upload failed -- unable to store file on server 10:46 ikourmou We are going to update the program with abstracts and bios... 10:46 ikourmou as soon as we have them 10:47 drojf ikourmou: i still have to send that 10:47 drojf will do it today 10:47 ikourmou we are communicating with our sponsors 10:47 drojf farooq: sorry, but we are in a meeting 10:47 ikourmou and try to arrange coffee breaks, meals etc 10:47 cait how is the call for sponsors going in general? 10:48 cait did your receive enough funds for the basics yet? or is there a lot missing? 10:48 ikourmou we will probably be able to cover the budget 10:48 cait #info program to be updated with abstracts and bios soon 10:48 farooq ok.. sorry for interruption... pls help me to fix it as you come back.. thank you for replying 10:49 cait ikourmou: so things are ok? 10:49 ikourmou and provide coffee breaks / lunch / etc for free 10:49 cait cool 10:49 ikourmou yes! 10:49 davidnind great 10:49 LibraryClaire :) 10:50 thd For people travelling from the US, I noted some significantly lower air fares especially on KLM in the last couple of weeks which were not available previously. [Unfortunately, while the price is reasonable for me I cannot now make the schedule commitment for travel but will work on Koha from home.] 10:50 ikourmou is there anything that you want to point out? or comment? 10:51 cait any ideas about the day trip yet? 10:51 ikourmou not something particular, justo thoughts: 10:51 cait and a general thank you to everyone involved in organizing! I 10:52 ikourmou we could visit archaeological sites 10:53 ikourmou or go for a day trip to the sea 10:53 ikourmou or a combination of both 10:53 cait :) 10:53 ikourmou we are open to suggestions though 10:53 cait i noticed there was no feedback mail for registration... but i think all is good anyway? 10:53 cait with places filling up i suddenly start to worry a little :) 10:54 ikourmou yes, we plan to do this: 10:54 ikourmou by the end of next week we will send a mail to everyone registered... 10:54 ikourmou with info about the program... 10:55 ikourmou and asking people who will not be able to make it to Thessaloniki to let us know 10:55 cait sounds good 10:55 ikourmou It's gonna be a week before deadline 10:56 cait #info an info email about the schedule will be send to people registered, also asking to let the organizers know if attending is not possible 10:56 ikourmou that's all from me :-) 10:56 cait thx ikourmou - great update 10:56 cait any more questions? 10:56 drojf no. but excited to go :) 10:57 LibraryClaire looking forward to it :) 10:57 cait yeah me too :) 10:57 cait ok, moving on? 10:57 drojf +1 10:58 cait #topic KohaCon17 10:58 cait current proposals can be found here: 10:58 cait #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon17_Proposals 10:58 cait currently there are 2 entries 10:59 cait oen from the philippines and one from ireland 10:59 cait is anyone here for the proposals? 11:00 drojf i think we can skip the bids until we fix a voting date? 11:00 drojf as long as there are no new ones 11:00 cait probably 11:01 cait we could also send another reminder as soon as a deadline has beens et 11:01 cait set 11:01 drojf not much going to happen before i guess 11:01 thd Have we decided to exclude a consecutive KohaCon in the same continent? 11:01 cait did we agree on a deadline yet? 11:02 drojf cait: i think we did at least vaguely in some past meeting. but i don't remember what it was 11:02 cait me neither 11:02 cait thd: also a good question 11:03 cait ther eis this page 11:03 cait #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_Conference_Bidding 11:04 cait hm nothing clear there i think, more suggestion 11:04 cait s 11:04 kidclamp gotta run 11:05 cait i think there was some agreement on not having the same continent for 2 years after the con was there 11:05 thd I remember discussing a rule and maybe voting on the principle. 11:06 cait what we coudl do is 11:06 cait - discuss a wording 11:06 cait - add it to vote on the next meeting 11:06 thd Such a rule would need an exception for a case of no bids available to satisfy the rule in a particular year. 11:06 cait true 11:06 cait but it hink with koh agrowing that could be less and less a problem 11:07 cait i would ike to have 2 places to pick from next vote 11:07 cait at least 11:08 thd I am surprised there are not more bids and more repeat bids previously unsuccessful bidders despite the work involved in hosting. 11:08 cait well i always think it's nicer to have a vote :) but there might be cases where it won't happen 11:08 thd s/previously/from previously/ 11:09 cait would someone volunteer to write something up for the next agenda? 11:09 cait or how shoudl we handle this? 11:10 thd I will try to form a coherent statement for the agenda. 11:10 cait thx htd 11:10 cait #action thd to add a coherent statement for the next agenda with the option to have the vote then on 'content rotation' 11:10 cait moving on? 11:10 cait is there someone around from the international fund? 11:11 drojf hey 11:11 cait hm? 11:11 drojf i wanted to give people a small homework 11:11 drojf regarding voting options 11:11 drojf or that will never be started 11:11 cait ok 11:12 drojf there are four basic options that i tried to outline in the wiki, based on our disussion at the last vote. it would be good to move this forward slowly without using much meeting time today. so… 11:12 drojf i propose everyone _reads_ in the wiki (link following) about the four options until next meeting and we _decide_ if we want to have seperate "maybe" and "no" options next time. that still leaves room to add more elaborated voting options if anyone feels like it, but we slowly start working on it. does that make sense? 11:12 thd A discussion on the mailing list has not happened yet. 11:13 drojf then reading that is a good start i guess? 11:13 thd I may not start that discussion but I will try to find it if someone else starts the discussion. 11:13 davidnind they look like good starting options to me, to get the ball rolling 11:14 drojf #action everyone: homework: read the four options for counting kohacon votes at https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Processes_for_KohaCons#Counting_votes 11:14 drojf #action everyone: make up your mind if you want to have the option to choose between "maybe" and "no" (options 2 and 4). discuss on the mailinglist before if you like 11:14 cait i had the action all typed out... 11:14 drojf #info we will write a test about that next time 11:14 cait lol 11:14 drojf i did too 11:14 drojf :P 11:14 cait moving on ok now? 11:14 drojf yep 11:14 thd Evaluation of the relative merits of voting options requires more than merely reading the options. 11:15 cait #topic International Koha Fund - Draft Rules for THT Grants Committee 11:15 thd Some of those options are especially vulnerable to strategic voting. 11:15 drojf thd: anything that has to happen _before_ reading it? 11:15 cait #info scheduled to be discussed today and voted on next meeting 11:15 cait #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Fundraising 11:15 drojf thd: if no, i would still see this as the starting point, otherwise we will do nothing 11:16 thd drojf++ 11:16 cait I actually did my homework there and have some comments - but i can send them as an email if people want to 11:16 drojf nobody around? 11:16 cait doesn't seem like it :( 11:16 drojf i think we were to discuss today and vote next meeting? 11:17 cait yes, what i said above 11:17 drojf i'd like to hear the comments, but we lack a discussion partner taht is involved in the process then 11:17 cait i can be quick 11:17 cait 1e Any one library, organisation or company (including a Listed Koha Support Company) may have only one principal, employee or contractor serve on the Committee at any given time. 11:17 cait i had to look up some of the words, so i hope i understood i all right 11:18 cait in this one i wonder about contractor 11:18 cait because the koha support companies and libraries contract /subcontract... 11:18 cait the definition is not clear to me 11:19 drojf good point 11:19 wahanui I know! The blade went right through that child! 11:19 drojf that should probably be defined in a clear way 11:20 cait in 3a it mentions 'proposals are invited in the current quarter' but the meetings are 'at least 2 times per year' - maybe a mismatch from a change at some point? 11:21 drojf good catch. seems to me like a revision error too 11:21 cait hm and in 3j is a reference to 3h that should be 3i - so that#s more of a typo 11:22 cait i think also an error that came from adding another paragraph in between 11:22 cait so i think the most debatable comment i have is about 'contractor' definition 11:23 cait becuase would that mean a library and it's support company can not have a representative at the same timeß 11:23 drojf this is how i understand it 11:23 cait or if one company uses development from another - woudl that be a contractor etc 11:23 drojf which means a library with several contractors could keep everyone out of it :P 11:23 cait it might be on purpose or a bad pick as a term in the koha context :) 11:23 cait nice trick heh 11:24 cait does anyone want to add something? 11:24 thd Would the conflict of interest rule against lobbying prevent people from advocating outside of deliberations for some reasonable idea? Would some qualification of what is meant by lobbying be better? 11:24 cait sorry, not sure i udnerstand 11:26 thd If a particular party has an interest in some outcome in which they may have an interest and would be necessarily barred from discussion and voting ... 11:26 cait is that 3? Whenever a member has a financial or personal interest in any matter coming before the Committee, the affected person shall a) fully disclose the nature of the interest and b) withdraw from discussion, lobbying, and voting on the matter unless a majority of disinterested members vote that it is in the best interest of the Fund to allow it. The minutes of meetings at which such votes are taken shall record such disclosures, abstentions or rational 11:27 cait i think they left an option there with the majority of disinterested members 11:27 thd should the same party also be barred from giving information advocating the merits of the idea. 11:27 thd Yes article 3. 11:27 cait hm there is also 2e: 11:27 cait 2e Any member of the Committee who may receive financial benefit if a proposal is accepted must recuse themselves from voting on that proposal. Furthermore, they may receive no more opportunity to advocate for that proposal than any other proposer. 11:28 cait maybe there is a slight mismatch there between not receiving more time than others and 'withdraw totally' ? 11:28 thd 2e clarifies. Thank you cait. ;) 11:29 drojf cait: thd: since nobody is available of the people in charge, would you send the concerns to the list? if we are supposed to vote in may we have to talk about it before. or do we wait for the committee to start a discussion on the list? 11:29 drojf (which i guess won't happen) 11:30 cait #action Koha Fund Fundraising Committee members - review full logs for discussion of the proposed document 11:30 thd Withdraw totally should conflict with 2e. Maybe that could be explicitly stated to not be the case in 3. 11:30 cait drojf: i can send a link to the discussion here 11:30 drojf excellent idea 11:31 cait @action cait to send a link to the fundraising discussion to the list 11:31 huginn cait: I suck 11:31 cait #action cait to send a link to the fundraising discussion to the list 11:31 cait i'd like to skip the next topic for today 11:31 cait an dmove on to setting a new date 11:31 drojf what is that? 11:31 wahanui i think that is the bueaty of the plugins :) 11:32 drojf the brainstorming? 11:32 cait brainstomring about sign offs 11:32 drojf personally, i doubt that there will ever be much brainstorming about this at the end of a general irc meeting. i propose to either move this to one of the mailing lists or form a group of people that try to come up with ideas outside of the meeting 11:32 drojf my brain is not storming after 1,5 to 2 hours of meeting, how about yours? 11:32 cait will you send an email to the mailing list? 11:33 cait yeah, the meetings tend to get a little too long recently 11:33 drojf the big one or the debv one? 11:33 cait #topic Brainstorming about sign-offs 11:33 drojf i'd say dev 11:33 cait #info drojf to send an email to the mailing lists to move discussion there 11:33 drojf i can send an email 11:33 drojf hey i had not volunteered yet :P 11:34 cait #info will be removed from next meeting's agenda, until someone wants to add it back for discussing some concrete ideas 11:34 cait too late 11:34 cait #topic Next meeting 11:34 cait Wednesday, 4th May? 11:34 drojf how does 4 may 2016 sound? time was 10 UTC today, would be… 20 UTC next time? 11:34 cait +1 11:35 drojf +1 11:35 drojf heh 11:35 mveron +1 11:35 davidnind 4th May sounds good (April 10:00 UTC, March 20:00 UTC, February 10:00 UTC ) 11:35 cait #agreed Next meeting will be 4 May 2016, 20 UTC 11:35 cait thx :) 11:35 cait thx everyone for attending! 11:35 thd +1 11:35 cait #endmeeting 11:35 huginn Meeting ended Wed Apr 6 11:35:53 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) 11:35 huginn Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2016/general_irc_meeting_6_april_2016.2016-04-06-10.02.html 11:35 huginn Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2016/general_irc_meeting_6_april_2016.2016-04-06-10.02.txt 11:35 huginn Log: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2016/general_irc_meeting_6_april_2016.2016-04-06-10.02.log.html 11:35 drojf cait++ 11:36 mveron cait++ 11:36 davidnind cait++ 11:36 LibraryClaire cait++ 11:36 thd cait+++ # in case you do not have enough ;) 11:39 thd #ME sleeps at last ... 11:40 * thd sleeps at last ... 11:41 drojf sleeping would be nice 12:26 oleonard Hi #koha 12:27 nengard morning oleonard 12:36 tcohen morning! 12:36 drojf hola other parts of the world 12:37 * LibraryClaire waves 12:38 tcohen hi LibraryClaire drojf 12:38 tcohen drojf: did u succeed with your LE patches? 12:41 drojf tcohen: moving some stuff to koha-letsencrypt to make it work for new and existing installations and the renewal cronjob is pending. i wrote most of it but have not tested it 12:42 drojf also they announced to move the client to EFF and rename it, i am not sure what to make out of that now 12:42 drojf but they changed the limits to 20 certs per 7 days (from 5), which is pretty good for us 12:46 drojf it better be in the next version of koha or i'll look stupid with my kohacon talk ;) 12:48 tcohen hehe 12:48 tcohen lets test it then! 12:49 cait you know the deadlines - test it! 13:02 drojf what is up on the bugtracker now can be tested now. what is missing is mostly moving stuff around, the functionality will not change drastically 13:04 oleonard Have item search results never shown data in the 'collection' column? I've looked back through 3.18.x. 13:16 oleonard Oh, I'm expecting "collection" to mean ccode, but it looks like it actually means biblioitems.collectiontitle. I have no idea what that is. 13:16 oleonard A UNIMARC thing? 13:16 wahanui a unimarc thing is probably somewhat incomplete from the look of it 13:17 cait oleonard: might be series 13:17 cait but mislabelled then 13:18 tcohen drojf: I'd say my patches enabling the indexer by default are worth 13:20 tcohen bug 16190 and bug 15113 13:20 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=16190 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Needs Signoff , Enable the indexer daemon by default 13:20 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15113 normal, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Needs Signoff , koha-rebuild-zebra should check USE_INDEXER_DAEMON and skip if enabled 13:20 tcohen let users rejoice Koha's capabilities that remain hidden 13:24 Joubu tcohen: did not you notice an issue with syspref cache when upgrading yesterday or today? 13:25 Joubu I had to restart memcached, I always got the installer 13:25 tcohen Joubu: i didn't 13:25 tcohen i got a couple internal server error pages 13:25 Joubu did you upgrade?:) 13:26 tcohen until i upgraded and restarted plack 13:33 Joubu ha yes, the problem only appears if you execute updatedatabase.pl via the commandline 13:35 tcohen we should exclude KOHA::Version from the cache 13:36 tcohen Joubu: i cannot reproduce the Members.t failure on jenkins 13:36 Joubu tcohen: I don't think it's an issue. 13:36 benjamin tcohen/Joubu: we might have run into caching issues too regarding sysprefs 13:36 Joubu benjamin: on master? 13:37 benjamin on 3.22.05 the sysprefs language and opaclanguage shifted on every page reload... on 3.22.03 they didnt. Haven't tried on master 13:37 MichaelKuhn Hello, in https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=737 I have seen some people worked on the possibility to show the location of a book on a map of the library, but nothing has come out of it so far. Has anyone tried an individual solution? 13:37 huginn 04Bug 737: enhancement, P2, ---, magnus, NEW , Map of library in search system 13:40 Joubu benjamin: It certainly comes from 11998. Please open a bug report and link it to 11998 if you have steps to reproduce the issue 13:42 benjamin Joubu: I suspected that, yes. I see there are some caching patches waiting for signoff, should I look into them as well? bug 16105 f.ex? or please tell if there are others pertinent for 3.24 13:42 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=16105 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Cache::Memory is loaded even if memcache is used 13:43 Joubu benjamin: I'd need more info to know where it could come from (plack or not, memcache or not) 13:44 Joubu and what you meant by "shifted" 13:50 benjamin Joubu: it certainly is 11988, which came in 3.22.5. By "shifted", I mean, with more than two languages, eg. nb-NO and en, every reload of a page shifts the language syspref from one to the other. Interesting feature ;) I will look more into it and see if is 13:50 benjamin ...repeatable 13:52 Joubu that's scary! 13:53 Joubu but really I don't see how it could be possible :) 13:53 Joubu looking forward to see the bug report 14:05 tcohen random_behaviour++ 14:06 * oleonard balances a stapler on his head 14:07 * tcohen jumps from one desk to the other repeatedkly 14:08 oleonard Did I hear that there was some way to find out if a particular file is affected by pending patches? 14:08 tcohen Joubu: what do u want to pass 14598? 14:08 tcohen splitter 14:08 wahanui splitter is cool 14:08 tcohen oleonard: http://splitter.koha-community.org/ 14:09 Joubu want to? why would I want to that? 14:09 tcohen damn idiomatic issues 14:09 tcohen what prevents 14598 to be passed QA? 14:10 Joubu see comments 63-65 14:10 Joubu (same as the last 4x you asked me:p) 14:11 tcohen Joubu: :-P 14:11 tcohen 63: ready 14:11 tcohen 64-65: you want it to read the deleted{biblio|items} tables too? 14:12 tcohen what behaviour would you expect it the sysadmin cleaned those tables? 14:12 Joubu It was 2 months ago, I don't remember the question so I won't understand the answer 14:12 tcohen (you mentioned some warnings during upgrade it the items where delented) 14:12 Joubu anyway, answer comment 64&65 and I will have a look again 14:13 Joubu Usually I don't look at bug reports when I asked for something and did not get an answer. It's a general rule 14:13 tcohen boo 14:30 Joubu tcohen: with 14598 and without a global fix for 15599, all our test files will produce lot of warnings 14:30 tcohen 14598 is not tied to 15599 to me 14:31 Joubu 14598 generates the warnings 14:31 tcohen i respect that you think so, but i dont agree, maybe kyle should've just fixed the warnings issue for 14598 only 14:32 tcohen i went beyond that 14:32 tcohen i'll take a look at the global problem you mention, don't worry 14:33 tcohen right now i reproduced your warning during upgrade, and am fixing it 14:34 Joubu iirc the warnings do not appear before 14598, so I don't understand "maybe kyle should've just fixed the warnings issue for 14598 only" 14:35 tcohen i didn't notice the fix introduced problems on the tests, i'm on it right now 14:42 * cait is confused but shares Joubu's rule 14:43 cait well i try to... sometimes i get soft... or fail it to get it out of my queue :P 14:45 tcohen we need to fix the bug, the fact that our tests create bad scenarios and need to be fixed should not block the bugfix 14:45 tcohen i'll try to work on that, though 14:45 tcohen i will just flood your inboxes too :-P 14:51 tcohen Joubu: how can i test the new warnings nightmare? 14:51 tcohen prove t/db_dependent/ ? 14:51 Joubu t/db_dependent/Items/* I guess 14:52 Joubu t/db_dependent/Items* even 14:52 tcohen thanks 14:54 tcohen Joubu: I see 14:55 tcohen those are silent for me, but there are several others 14:55 tcohen the problem is that tests are not correctly coded 14:56 tcohen and I don't think there can be a global solution 15:00 reiveune bye 15:26 oleonard Hi pianohacker 15:28 pianohacker hello hello 15:30 oleonard pianohacker: Re: Your required fields question, HTML5 "required" attribute is the minimum. A JS layer is a good second layer. 15:30 oleonard This are both IMHO, since there's no official rule. 15:31 oleonard pianohacker: I recommend looking at the markup of admin/cities.pl?op=add_form for a simple example. 15:32 pianohacker oleonard: okay, makes sense. Thanks. I'll throw together a quick patch to fix the EDI thing if you're not poking at it 15:33 oleonard pianohacker: I submitted a patch yesterday with a bunch of template changes 15:33 oleonard ...but without changes to required fields 15:33 oleonard Bug 16206 15:33 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=16206 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Corrections to templates related new EDI feature 15:36 pianohacker I'll make sure it's based on that 15:38 bag morning 15:38 oleonard Hi bag 15:40 cait oleonard: i noticed a lot of Edifact Messages yesterday 15:40 cait wondering if that shoudl be EDIFACT messages? 15:42 oleonard As far as I can tell, yes 15:42 cait .. and with that i run away t have dinner :) 15:42 cait have a nice evening #koha :) - will probabl be back later 15:43 oleonard y 15:43 * oleonard reminds himself, Focus! 15:58 * geek_cl still fighting with Koha performance :-/ 16:36 Joubu tcohen: did you mean t/db_dependent/Members.t pass on D7?? 17:05 * drojf heads home 17:05 drojf later #koha 18:58 oleonard Bye #koha 20:00 cait huh 20:00 cait i have problems with the wiki - especially adding a new page for the next meeting 20:00 cait does this link work? https://wiki.koha-community.org/w/index.php?title=Development_IRC_meeting_4_May_2016&action=edit 20:01 cait hi kidclamp 20:01 kidclamp hi cait 20:02 cait could you try something for me? 20:02 kidclamp sure 20:03 cait can you try the red link on this page? https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/IRC_Meetings 20:03 cait i have difficulties adding the page for the next agenda 20:03 kidclamp there is currently no text in thispage 20:04 cait can you add it? there should be en edit link 20:04 cait i can't 20:04 cait keeps timing out :( 20:04 kidclamp yes 20:04 cait weird 20:04 kidclamp can edit 20:04 kidclamp https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Talk:General_IRC_meting_4_May_2016 20:05 cait still loading.... 20:05 kidclamp oh, I edited the talk 20:05 kidclamp can;t get in to main page 20:05 kidclamp you are right, borked 20:05 rangi i can 20:06 kidclamp the wiki knows better than to mess with rangi 20:06 rangi hmm actually that feels like disk space issues 20:06 cait so should ask gmcharlt to take a look? 20:06 rangi yup, i forget who else has shell 20:06 gmcharlt seems advisible 20:06 cait hi gmcharlt :) 20:06 cait i didn't want to summon you if it was just me 20:07 gmcharlt disk space isn't an issue 20:07 cait editing the old agenda worked fine, then it started when wanted to add the new page 20:10 cait gmcharlt: on another note - lots of dicussion on the funds fundraising... proposal in today's meeting 20:19 rangi hmm there goes my theory then 20:19 cait still not working for me - i will wait and write the email 20:19 cait homework from today's meeting 20:28 gmcharlt cait: try again now 20:28 cait onit 20:28 gmcharlt looks like a bug in the SelectCategory extension, which I've disabled for now 20:29 ccordova hi, i have problem in my koha 3.22.5 this log see : http://paste.koha-community.org/398 20:29 cait much better :) 20:29 cait aah 20:29 cait thx a lot for the quick help :) 20:30 gmcharlt yw 20:31 rangi ccordova: is the machine out of memory? id take a look at top 20:33 ccordova rangi : this is memory http://snag.gy/ugelu.jpg 20:35 ccordova is very slow for search 18 seg for search 20:35 * andreashm waves 20:35 cait hi andreashm :) 20:36 rangi ccordova: hmm i'd try (on your test server) enabling plack 20:36 andreashm hi cait 20:36 rangi and make sure caching is switched on 20:36 rangi also 20:36 ccordova not plack is disabled 20:36 rangi yes, i mean try it with plack enabled on your test server, to see if that is faster 20:37 ccordova it's server in production 20:37 rangi yes 20:38 rangi but you have a test server right? 20:39 ccordova if I've had, but not change, only a couple of seconds less. 20:42 andreashm I know I've asked this a bunch of times, but really - what is the difference between CCODE and LOC? Are they interchangeable or do they affect different parts of the system? 20:43 rangi not interchangebale 20:43 * andreashm is asking because we are having a discussion about which one to use for our locations. 20:43 rangi well they could be, if you mess around with the marc frameworks 20:43 rangi CCODE is collection code 20:44 rangi you can switch to searching by it instead of itemtypes 20:44 rangi i wouldn't use it for location, id use LOC (which is for location :)) 20:45 andreashm rangi: yes I know. but there is a library here that is using ccode for locations, and it seems to work fine. 20:45 cait hm not only instead 20:45 cait you can have all three to search on 20:45 andreashm so the difference is maninly searching options? 20:45 rangi just because you can, doesn't mean you should 20:45 rangi :) 20:45 andreashm hehe 20:45 cait andreashm: what speaks against using loc for locations? :) 20:46 cait i'd say the difference is in the display in the item mostly LOC displays below the library - if it's home or holding you can confiugre using prefs. collection has its own column 20:46 cait you can both use for advanced search 20:46 cait one difference i can think of is maybe that you can use collections for branch transfer limits 20:46 andreashm cit: not sure. I'm not there to discuss. but I would guess the look on item (an own column or not) 20:47 andreashm a, home or holdings branch setting affects loc and not ccode? 20:47 cait hm there is a separate one 20:47 cait sec 20:48 cait OpacLocationBranchToDisplayShelving 20:49 cait there is also a cart feature tied to location 20:49 andreashm cait: oh, thanks. we're not using the opac though. 20:49 cait ok 20:49 cait InProcessingToShelvingCart ReturnToShelvingCart NewItemsDefaultLocation 20:50 andreashm thanks 20:50 cait so maybe branch transfer limits if you use those and the cart feature would make a difference 20:51 andreashm yes, very good to know. 20:51 cait BranchTransferLimitsType 20:56 andreashm anything specific for LOC similarly? 20:56 andreashm that using ccode wouldn't do/affect? 20:57 cait can't think of anything apart from the cart right now 20:57 cait course reserves can change both i think 20:59 andreashm cait: interesting, thanks. 20:59 andreashm seems to me that they are somewhat interchangeable after all, except some minor functionality. =) 21:01 rangi this is true 21:01 rangi but so is pretty much every field in MARC ;) 21:01 rangi i think putting location in the location subfield make sense .. that may be a NZ thing though :) 21:01 andreashm depends what one means with location, I guess. 21:02 andreashm oh, so much ambiguity 21:02 andreashm =) 21:03 rangi yup 21:05 pianohacker we've seen folks use the word location to mean between 4 and 5 different things 21:05 pianohacker occasionally within the same conversation 21:07 gmcharlt “When I use a word,†Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.†21:08 gmcharlt pianohacker: I hope this clarifies things immensely ;) 21:08 pianohacker oh, by far... 21:13 andreashm yes, very. 21:14 andreashm Now I got that damn Humpty Dumpty song on my head. 21:14 andreashm thanks gmcharlt! =) 21:15 gmcharlt andreashm: I think you just revenged yourself on me 21:15 gmcharlt I had not been thinking of that song... BUT I AM NOW!!! 21:15 gmcharlt :) 21:15 andreashm haha 21:15 * cait is glad she doesn't know the song 21:19 andreashm cait: now go straight to youtube! 21:21 cait nope nope nope 21:21 cait i don't want to dream about humpty dumpty 21:25 cait cool 135 needs sign off 21:25 cait that's the lowest in a while i think 21:29 bag yeah 21:30 cait community++ :) 22:04 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 16215: Missing closing quote in checkout template <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=22a33b7868bf1f0b312d548c5abdb642bfa72d6e> 22:14 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 16171 - Show many media in html5media tabs <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=c2f92f68d84753d62880e17e9d1bd19c8b9bff47> / Bug 16184 - Report bor_issues_top shows incorrect number of rows <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=2c68980467009a9d19116440d4f28356707e9e7c> / Bug 16214: Fix typo 'To.jon' -> 'To.json' <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=com 23:55 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 15928 - Show unlinked guarantor <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=e4d0363bc72403b4eea69cd7375e06ee2ecd729d> / Bug 16191: t/Ris.t is noisy <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=5b909a82693d452d233e95d7598092aa5ee14c17>