Time Nick Message
23:58 eythian http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/local-papers/the-wellingtonian/70727559/thousands-of-years-history-kept-in-wellington-archives
22:42 cait yeah :)
22:42 wizzyrea don't dig too deep, you might get lost in there.
22:42 wizzyrea :)
22:42 wahanui goodnight cait. You'll be back.
22:42 cait night all
22:42 cait :)
22:42 cait i should not ask and just go to bed
22:41 cait hm but we do have a label permission...
22:41 wizzyrea with quite good success, I think.
22:41 wizzyrea or that's what I was doing yesterday evening.
22:41 wizzyrea to do stuff.
22:41 wizzyrea yeah, I'm poking around in the labels interface, removing the necessity of a billion clicks.
22:40 eythian "tools" is a dumping ground for all manner of crap that could probably be better organised.
22:35 wizzyrea its*
22:35 wizzyrea lulz, labels is a "tool" but it's permission is for "catalogue"
22:25 eythian oh, there was a meeting. I totally didn't know.
22:23 Francesca hi eythian
22:23 wahanui hi, eythian
22:23 eythian hi
22:16 drojf good night #koha
21:59 Francesca I can tell
21:55 wizzyrea ah alright, busy busy
21:54 Francesca how goes it?
21:54 wizzyrea hi Francesca
21:54 * Francesca waves at wizzyrea
21:53 wizzyrea My concern is what work comes out of it. I worry that it won't be very forward thinking, and will lead to "implement this like horizon did it" - that's the nicest way I can say that I think.
21:44 thd bag: I merely meant that a vendor dominated committee may spend funding more wisely than a librarian dominated one. However, the appearance will still be a problem.
21:42 wizzyrea for that.
21:42 wizzyrea ...for the record I am not in favour of a vote.
21:41 bag but wizzyrea it’s awesome so far - so thanks much
21:41 bag perhaps wizzyrea we can have something for people to vote on next meeting
21:41 wizzyrea ok great because I was winging it and it's not my thing :P
21:40 bag we can talk and figure out what’s best for language
21:40 bag wizzyrea: I’ll catch up with you
21:40 bag I’ve got to run
21:40 bag I don’t understand you thd
21:39 thd bag: For which was huh?
21:39 bag huh
21:38 wizzyrea that seems convoluted.
21:38 thd bag: Please understand that if I had money to give to Koha generally giving it too a group largely consisting of Koha vendors would probably best ensure that it would be spent wisely and frugally. However, such an arrangement is obviously problematic.
21:38 wizzyrea O.o
21:38 drojf wizzyrea: i will send an email to bag telling him what to tell THT to generate a code that they will probably send back to bag and he can send it to you. i think ;)
21:38 wizzyrea also I'm sorry I missed the section on that because I have opinions, and I feel like I need something to link to that explains wtf the money goes for.
21:37 wizzyrea what needs doing there
21:37 wizzyrea oh yes someone tell me
21:37 cait i forgot the action about the button
21:35 drojf :P
21:35 drojf i hope someone took notes of all the stuff i have to send tomorrow :O
21:33 cait thx everyone for attending
21:33 mtompset cait++
21:33 drojf cait++
21:33 bag thanks cait!
21:33 huginn Log: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2015/general_irc_meeting_5_august_2015.2015-08-05-20.03.log.html
21:33 huginn Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2015/general_irc_meeting_5_august_2015.2015-08-05-20.03.txt
21:33 huginn Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2015/general_irc_meeting_5_august_2015.2015-08-05-20.03.html
21:33 huginn Meeting ended Wed Aug 5 21:33:06 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
21:33 cait #endmeeting
21:32 cait #agreed 9 September, 10 UTC
21:31 thd drojf: Sorry, I only have anecdotal information about the range of academic calendars in the US running from times starting in late August to mid September.
21:31 mtompset September 8 is firstday of school, so people will be back from holidays, drojf.
21:31 mtompset http://www.ocdsb.ca/calendar/Pages/Proposed-calendar---2015-2016.aspx
21:31 cait don't make me start the votebot again
21:30 cait ok, so 10 UTC on september 9?
21:30 drojf citation needed
21:29 thd drojf: Yes, however, many academic calendars widely used would encourage a later rather than earlier time in the month
21:29 huginn Francesca: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 8.0°C (9:00 AM NZST on August 06, 2015). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: 7.0°C. Windchill: 5.0°C. Pressure: 29.44 in 997 hPa (Falling).
21:29 Francesca @wunder wlg
21:29 wahanui it has been said that 10UTC is what we've decided = 18UTC (today) -8
21:29 schnydszch 10UTC?
21:29 schnydszch 22:00+0000 is what time in the phils?
21:28 thd 10 UTC
21:28 drojf aren#t there always holidays somewhere?
21:28 cait drojf: you know it's your job to tell me the time of the next meeting :)
21:28 thd Also a specific request from one candidate should be given attention.
21:28 rangi what holidays
21:28 wahanui which time is probably better for my area? 10:00+0000 or 22:00+0000?
21:28 cait drojf: which time?
21:27 cait ok
21:27 thd I think that concluding a vote a week from 9 would be better for having people back from holidays etc.
21:27 cait hm i thought we had agreed to stick to the first week
21:27 schnydszch sept 9 please
21:26 drojf (you can still have a meeting then)
21:26 drojf me
21:26 drojf i think 9 does not work for m
21:25 thd 9 Sep.
21:25 cait first wednesday? that would be the 2nd
21:25 cait early september?
21:25 cait #topic Agree on date for next meeting
21:24 cait #link http://meetings.koha-community.org/2015/general_irc_meeting_8_july_2015.2015-07-08-10.00.html
21:24 cait and i will send the promised email soon
21:24 cait khall volunteered to run a virtual bootcamp during GBSD (will remind him :) )
21:24 cait #topic Actions from last meeting
21:23 cait moving on?
21:23 cait i will probably weed the links above a bit to make the page a bit more compact
21:22 cait please add yourself there if you plan to contribute something to the event!
21:22 cait there is a new section on the page "Specials for this GBSD"
21:22 cait or help testing features they developed... whatever you can think of
21:22 cait i want to ask for ideas, wish list item etc. and aso for people to host tutorials
21:22 cait #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/2015-09-03_Global_bug_squashing_day
21:21 cait there isa first draft of a wiki page available
21:21 cait i hope to get to that this week
21:21 cait the plan is sitll on - i haven't send an email yt
21:21 cait #topic GBSD
21:21 thd rangi++
21:21 cait #info Discussion about Paid support providers list to be postponed - please add to the RFC if you want things to move
21:20 cait but nothing has been communicated
21:20 cait i think we got some more company pages in the wiki now
21:20 rangi postpone for ever as far as im concerned
21:20 rangi everyone has opinions, no one wants to do anything
21:20 drojf +1
21:20 cait i'd like to postpone this topic as this meeting is a bit long already
21:19 wizzyrea heh
21:19 cait but sadly, it#s empty
21:19 cait #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Paid_support_providers_list_RFC
21:19 cait and a helpful soul set up a wiki page for proposed changes/solutions:
21:19 wizzyrea #info Liz Rea, Catalyst IT
21:19 cait i tihnkwe had agreed to have more discussion during this meeting
21:19 cait #topic Support vendor listing
21:19 cait ok
21:18 bag if there are no more questions - I think we can move on
21:18 cait anything that should go in th eminutes?
21:18 cait ok
21:18 bag that’s really it from me cait
21:18 bag back
21:18 bag bbias
21:17 bag also an update. I think we are finally almost past the legal stuff - where we finally get to have some fun and move forward with fund raising
21:17 drojf so many things to send tomorrow heh
21:17 bag #info and any suggestion to the committee on how to make it so more librarians are interested in joining :)
21:16 drojf i will send you an email tomorrow
21:16 bag cool drojf can you send me information. THT has control of the bank account - so I’ll talk to them
21:16 cait #info We are looking for more volunteers for the fundraising committee
21:16 thd The problem may be in the US a need for a US based funding organisation which is an issue which I had lost time to address for IRS non-profit status.
21:15 bag I think we need suggestions too cait…
21:15 cait and then ask them of course
21:15 drojf looks like someone with access to the account has to do it, but its possible
21:15 drojf "You can build your own Button Text Links from scratch or take advantage of the Online Button Creator within your PayPal Account.  After generating the button code online, select the "Email" tab to view the Text Link Code."
21:15 Francesca ohh cookies and chocolate
21:15 cait mybe indeed we could ask people to also suggest someone they think would be a good fit...?
21:14 bag I’ll send cookies and chocoloate
21:14 bag please :D
21:14 bag can you do that ?
21:14 bag do you have a suggestion for recruiting some of the librarians?
21:14 cait yeah.. but i think that's the point of asking for more members :)
21:14 bag thd agreed - hence we need more volunteers - they just aren’t coming
21:14 thd bag: Certainly, however, the appearance would be better if more librarians would be involved.
21:13 Francesca *morning
21:13 Francesca good moning
21:13 bag and thd if the committee once those rules are set - decides to hire a third party - let’s say equinox to do some sign-off/testing - then only those who work for equinox should remove themselves
21:12 cait #info committee to meet soon again
21:12 thd bag: As long as the issue is recognised and corrected in due course if it could not be corrected in advance to give more confidence.
21:12 cait #info donate button was added to the kc website (scroll down)
21:11 bag thd: the committee established so far is only to bring money into the fund - not spend it
21:11 drojf ok i will have a look
21:11 bag drojf: provide the code and we can
21:10 drojf can we have a non-paypal-servery button?
21:10 bag ah there you go drojf - that’s why
21:10 cait i mean ... at the top
21:10 cait but i don't know hwer to put it nicely
21:10 thd bag: There is still a basic problem that most everyone currently on the committee should by the conflict of interest rules recuse themselves in many circumstances leaving no quorum.
21:10 drojf :P
21:10 drojf no i do not allow third party stuff like loading things from paypal
21:10 bag s/backup/backing up
21:09 bag heh
21:09 bag thanks for backup my point drojf :D
21:09 mtompset you may need to scroll.
21:09 cait scroll down
21:09 wahanui bottom right is bridgton in maine
21:09 mtompset bottom right.
21:09 drojf i don't see anything
21:09 cait #link http://koha-community.org/
21:08 bag Establish rules for grants/invoicing committee
21:08 bag More volunteers needed on committee
21:08 bag Donate button added to main page of koha-community.org (In my opinion (will bring to the committee and the mailing list) too low on page - should be up top and not causing people to have to "search" for it)
21:08 bag Another committee meeting coming soon (talk about raising money, grants, and next steps)
21:08 bag here’s an update (few lines pasted in)
21:08 cait thx
21:08 bag thanks
21:08 bag cait++
21:08 bag Cool - ok I’m taking over again cait
21:07 cait #agreed Paul Poulain was elected to join the Fundraising committee
21:07 huginn Voted on "Are we ok with Paul Poulain joining the fundraising committee?" Results are
21:07 cait #endvote
21:06 schnydszch for Paul Poulain
21:06 ikourmou #vote yes
21:06 thd #vote yes
21:06 schnydszch #vote yes
21:06 cait we already elected the other people
21:06 bag (not voting since I am on committee)
21:06 mtompset #vote yes
21:06 cait to get things tidied up
21:06 cait yes
21:06 mtompset Okay, so we are just voting on Paul, because he was added after vote?
21:06 huginn Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
21:06 huginn Begin voting on: Are we ok with Paul Poulain joining the fundraising committee? Valid vote options are Yes, No.
21:06 cait #startvote Are we ok with Paul Poulain joining the fundraising committee?
21:05 bag and then vote on Paul_P acceptance
21:05 bag gmcharlt, BobB, bag, Romana
21:05 cait #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Fundraising
21:05 mtompset Can we recap who is on the committee?
21:04 bag I’ll answer questions
21:04 bag cait can you handle the vote process?
21:04 bag we want to vote on if that is ok with everyone for him to join the committee
21:04 bag So we voted in the general meeting and then afterwards paul_p added his name to the committee
21:04 bag topic is Voting on additional candidates (see Fundraising) for the Fund Raising Committee.
21:03 bag first a vote
21:03 bag Next steps in Fundraising
21:03 bag ok
21:03 * cait hands the hat to bag
21:03 cait #topic Fundraising
21:02 bag yup move on
21:01 cait moving on?
21:01 cait ok, i think we got it all?
21:01 cait #agreed the vote will ask for name and email
21:01 huginn Voted on "Shall the details being asked for be name and email address?" Results are
21:01 cait #endvote
21:01 cait #info votes are submitted secret except to those conducting the poll
21:00 drojf thd: yes
21:00 cait thd: yes i think so
21:00 thd #vote yes
21:00 mtompset #vote yes
21:00 thd The understanding is still that the votes submitted are secret except to those conducting the poll.
21:00 drojf #vote yes
21:00 rangi #vote yes
21:00 cait pf.
21:00 cait #vote yes
21:00 rangi you just voted wrong again :)
21:00 drojf lol
20:59 rangi no you arent
20:59 cait #yes
20:59 cait i am getting the hang of that vote thing *tortures you all*
20:59 huginn Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
20:59 huginn Begin voting on: Shall the details being asked for be name and email address? Valid vote options are Yes, No.
20:59 cait #startvote Shall the details being asked for be name and email address?
20:59 thd :)
20:59 drojf thd: i'm too shy ;)
20:59 thd drojf: You should always vote for yourself if you are not excluded by some rule.
20:58 cait #agreed We are going to let drojf set up the vote :)
20:58 drojf no cookie for huginn
20:58 huginn Voted on "Shall we let drojf set up the vote?" Results are
20:58 cait #endvote
20:58 cait #vote yes
20:58 mtompset #vote yes
20:57 ikourmou #vote yes
20:57 drojf #vote abstain ;)
20:57 thd #vote yes
20:57 cait i'd add a ! but the vote thing won't like it
20:57 bag #vote yes
20:57 rangi #vote yes
20:57 cait #yes
20:57 huginn Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
20:57 huginn Begin voting on: Shall we let drojf set up the vote? Valid vote options are Yes, No.
20:57 cait #startvote Shall we let drojf set up the vote?
20:57 bag for help that is :)
20:57 bag drojf: you can ask nengard - she’s done it before
20:57 huginn Unable to parse vote topic and options.
20:57 cait #startvote Shall we let drojf set up the vote=
20:56 drojf well, if that limesurvey still exists. lol not used that in ages
20:56 rangi sounds good
20:56 drojf and would probably nominate one or two people to have a look
20:56 rangi if you have time, that would be great drojf
20:56 drojf i can set something up if nobody wants to
20:55 rangi it's pretty easy to spot when that happens
20:55 cait and is someone volunteering to set up the tool for voting?
20:55 rangi most people are pretty good about it, we've only had one occasion in 8 years where people with no interest in koha were mobilised to vote
20:55 cait ok, can we agree on the voting procedure? email and name?
20:54 ikourmou got it.
20:53 drojf ikourmou: we will announce it to the koha mailing lists, but it is not restricted to that
20:53 cait ikourmou: every individual person has a vote
20:53 thd Actually, venue is probably best understood as part of the location column.
20:53 wahanui somebody said everyone was doin' the hot new dance the Cracked Out Kitty Tail Shiver
20:53 rangi everyone
20:53 ikourmou drojf: ok, and by "everyone" you mean?
20:53 rangi yeah thats about all
20:53 cait sounds good to me
20:53 drojf and a name
20:52 drojf i dont know. i asked for an email address when i did it
20:52 thd cait: You identified a reason for a more detailed proposal linked from the simple wiki table. However, a column for venue could be added.
20:52 cait what information did we require last time?
20:51 drojf ikourmou: someone will set up a website to vote. i did a limesurvey once for a vote, i think we had other systems too. it will be open for a week, everyone can vote
20:50 cait or maybe still misunderstanding
20:49 cait i didn't understand the difference until now i think
20:49 cait schnydszch: because it states as hosting organisation, so it looks like they organize it
20:49 cait ikourmou: good question
20:48 cait just to avoid confusion
20:48 cait schnydszch: maybe you can update the wiki page that it will not be national library?
20:48 ikourmou could someone please give a short explanation on the voting procedure?
20:47 thd cait: add Philippines to your note
20:46 cait schnydszch: yes, we will set the exact date at the end of this meeting
20:46 thd Yes, starting from the next general IRC meeting date.
20:46 cait #info venue will probably move from the national library to elsewhere - wiki page to be updated
20:46 drojf yes
20:46 schnydszch so voting will be this september right?
20:46 thd I suggest adding that the proposal from the Philippines is changing venues in the midst of changing venue and other details.
20:45 schnydszch i mean a website
20:45 schnydszch Yes and also bugging some people for the official site
20:44 cait hm what should i add to the minutes?
20:44 thd Please update the wiki when you have a new venue etc.
20:43 schnydszch I'm also bugging other people on this, since I'm elsewhere
20:43 schnydszch we really wanted to involve the National Library in this since they're the biggest koha user in the Phils.
20:43 mtompset I'll bug Manny about it.
20:42 schnydszch And it seems we can't contact NLP, so other koha people in the Philippines have to step up regarding our bid
20:42 schnydszch So we will find a venue elsewhere
20:42 schnydszch Yes the initial plan of holding it in the National Library of the Philippines seems not possible
20:41 cait schnydszch: do you want to say something about your kohacon proposal?
20:40 cait #info 8 yes, 0 no
20:40 schnydszch and was able to connect
20:40 schnydszch I tried this lunch Rome time
20:40 drojf i see 8 yes
20:40 cait #agreed The time to add bids for KohaCon will end in a week from now, drojf is going to send an email
20:40 schnydszch yes I can't connect to IRC since lastg week
20:40 cait hm it hangs
20:40 huginn Voted on "Shall we close the bidding in one week from now?" Results are
20:40 cait #endvote
20:39 mtompset Ah, we have a Philippine proposal person: schnydszch (Eugene Espinoza)
20:39 cait ready?
20:39 bag #vote yes
20:39 pianohacker #vote yes
20:39 mtompset #vote yes
20:39 schnydszch #infoEugene Espinoza philippines
20:39 cait #vote yes
20:39 thd #vote yes
20:39 ikourmou #vote yes
20:39 cait #action drojf to send out an email abou the end of the bidding process after the meeting
20:39 drojf #vote yes
20:39 rangi #vote yes
20:38 rangi thats fine
20:38 rangi thanks
20:38 drojf but probably tomorrow morning
20:38 rangi drojf++
20:38 huginn Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
20:38 huginn Begin voting on: Shall we close the bidding in one week from now? Valid vote options are Yes, No.
20:38 cait #startvote Shall we close the bidding in one week from now?
20:38 drojf i can do that
20:38 rangi with all the dates in it?
20:38 thd drojf++
20:38 rangi who is willing to send out an email after this meeting
20:38 drojf if you want to host it, you don't need a lot of reminders ;)
20:38 rangi there have been 3 in total
20:38 rangi yup
20:38 drojf i sent a reminder not too long ago, and i think at least one before that
20:37 thd We have had more reminders encouraging candidates in the past but no problems of lack of candidates on this occasion.
20:37 rangi hehe
20:37 drojf or you are just that awesome ;)
20:37 cait #info yes (7): cait, mtompset, bag, thd, drojf, rangi, ikourmou
20:37 rangi if you leave it to the last week .. well, you probably arent the best organiser ;)
20:37 cait sorry, forgot to end
20:36 huginn yes (7): cait, mtompset, bag, thd, drojf, rangi, ikourmou
20:36 huginn Voted on "Shall the vote be open for one week?" Results are
20:36 cait #endvote
20:36 drojf yup
20:36 rangi its been open for 6 months
20:36 rangi yeah, exactly
20:36 mtompset when is the september meeting?
20:36 bag I feel like we’ve asked for canidates for a few months now
20:36 rangi ok by me
20:36 drojf no need to wait really
20:36 cait good for me
20:36 drojf a week from now?
20:36 wahanui 2 weeks is not good nor bad, but thinking makes it so.
20:36 cait or 2 weeks?
20:36 rangi so that the voting site can be set up
20:36 drojf bag: i think doing that without announcement is not the best option
20:36 cait how about 1 week before the meeting?
20:36 cait ok, now we can agree on when to close the time for bidding
20:35 rangi bids will need to close before that
20:35 cait #agreed The vote will be open for 1 week before closed
20:35 rangi nope we didnt thd, we agreed we will start voting then
20:35 drojf or maybe i got confused :)
20:35 drojf thd: i think we agreed that we start voting then, not the other thing
20:35 ikourmou #vote yes
20:35 bag #vote yes
20:35 thd #vote yes
20:35 cait #vote yes
20:35 thd drojf: Did we not just now agree to close bidding from the next meeting?
20:35 rangi #vote yes
20:35 drojf #vote yes
20:35 mtompset #vote yes
20:35 cait yes
20:35 huginn Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
20:35 huginn Begin voting on: Shall the vote be open for one week? Valid vote options are yes, no.
20:35 bag yes
20:35 cait #startvote Shall the vote be open for one week? yes,no
20:34 mtompset yes
20:34 bag I’d say the deadline is now - but of course anyone can object
20:34 cait #vote Shall the vote be open for one week? yes,no
20:34 mtompset 1 week.
20:34 cait ok
20:34 bag 1 week
20:34 rangi cait: 1 week seems long enough for me
20:34 cait thd: i just thought i'd keep it a bit ismpler this time
20:34 drojf and deadline for bidding?
20:33 thd Is automated vote recording not functioning?
20:33 cait how long? 1 week or 2?
20:33 cait #agreed The voting on the bids will beginn with the date of the september general meeting
20:32 drojf +1
20:32 mtompset +1
20:32 rangi +1
20:32 cait +1 form me too
20:32 bag yes +1 (agreed)
20:32 cait start the online vote at the september meeting?
20:32 drojf until when do we accept new bids? right before that?
20:32 cait so can we agree on that?
20:32 cait ah ok
20:32 drojf works for me
20:31 rangi online voting for a week after that
20:31 thd rangi: Would we not have a community wide vote?
20:31 rangi i think thats a good time to start it
20:31 cait we did online votes in the past
20:31 drojf we vote at the meeting?
20:31 rangi when we decide that at the end of this meeting :)
20:31 drojf so we should decide now a) when no new bids are accepted b) when we vote
20:30 rangi it'll be the date of the meeting in september
20:30 drojf or we already did, but i did not find a date. just "september"
20:30 drojf we will decide that in a minute i guess
20:29 mtompset When will the vote be?
20:29 drojf would be good to know how that works out before we vote
20:29 drojf there was an issue with the location i think
20:29 mtompset Sadly, no... it's 4:30am there.
20:29 drojf apart from facebook friends? :P
20:29 cait oh yes, sorry
20:29 drojf someone from the philippines around to tell something?
20:28 cait ok, the next thing on the agenda was setting a date to start the vote?
20:27 drojf awesome, good luck
20:27 cait oh soon, good luck!
20:27 ikourmou my university library is pallning to go live on the 2nd week of september
20:27 thd Just to remind people, in the past the first column usually had a link in the past to a more detailed proposal than could be accommodated in a simple wiki table.
20:27 cait exciting
20:26 drojf nice
20:26 mtompset drojf: One is my colleague. :P
20:26 ikourmou and another university in Thessaloniki just began
20:26 cait ikourmou: cool - when will you go live?
20:26 bag excellent ikourmou (best of skills to you)
20:26 drojf mtompset: because you are friends with them on facebook? :)
20:26 ikourmou we are in the proccess of migration to koha
20:25 rangi ikourmou: that is perfect
20:25 cait great
20:25 ikourmou I will add this info (contact email, proposed schedule format) and some background info
20:25 mtompset ^big^bid^
20:25 mtompset The Philippine big is definitely valid.
20:25 thd Nevermind :)
20:25 mtompset I talk with one of them regularly too. :)
20:25 thd Ok, I recognise that the stopped communicating and entry from a third party were the most problematic elements.
20:25 mtompset 3 out of the 4 people listed in the Philippine proposal are friends of mine on Facebook. ;)
20:24 cait i believe both bids in this case are valid
20:24 rangi exactly
20:24 cait i think the stopped communicating might have been the bit - we also had the case wher esomoene else had entered information from an email to the mailing list as bid
20:24 rangi naw, that was when someone else entered that persons details in
20:24 drojf there are a lot of links already
20:24 drojf thd: have you looked at the wiki page?
20:23 thd We previously disqualified a prospective host and held no vote when one prospective host entered brief details in the wiki but did not link to anything more detailed and then stopped communicating.
20:23 rangi basically, unless you are planning to change the format of 3, 1, 3 to something else, venue, and dates are the main thing
20:23 cait i think one nice addition would maybe be a contact email address - but that's about the only thing i am missing
20:23 drojf mtompset: with blanks all along? because there is no call for papers before the vote
20:23 rangi naw, you dont do anything like that until after
20:22 cait ?
20:22 mtompset A proposed weekly schedule?
20:22 thd Maybe I should state the issue differently.
20:22 bag thd you thinking of code4lib or something?
20:22 drojf and ikourmou just said they will put up some more info
20:21 cait both bids are pretty detailed already
20:21 * thd looks for an example from previous years.
20:21 cait thd: did you see the link to the wiki page?
20:21 rangi proposed dates, proposed venue, .. it doesnt need much more info than that
20:21 ikourmou what info should it contain?
20:21 mtompset What sort of details are required? I'll nudge the Philippine proposal folks. :)
20:21 bag hmm don’t know what you’re talking about thd
20:20 thd What about a more detailed proposal which has traditionally been expected of candidate venues?
20:20 ikourmou we can host the next kohacon on may or june
20:19 ikourmou we will soon have a dedicated page containing info about the city (Thessaloniki), the university etc
20:19 thd Which respective page?
20:19 cait #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon16_Proposals
20:19 ikourmou our proposal appears in the respective page
20:18 ikourmou ok.
20:18 cait ikourmou: would you like to say something about your plans/proposal?
20:18 cait #topic KohaCon16
20:18 cait ok,... now
20:17 bag excellent news
20:17 cait rangi++
20:17 drojf :)
20:17 rangi thats all the kohacon15 news i have
20:17 rangi i am going
20:17 cait moving on i think
20:17 cait ok
20:16 rangi doesnt look like it
20:16 cait someone around?
20:16 cait #topic KohaCon15
20:16 mtompset That's why I was delayed paying attention. ;)
20:16 cait ok, moving on ...
20:15 cait as always... please test and sign-off on patches!
20:15 cait but not a lot that is easy to test :)
20:15 cait there is some interesting stuff in the qa queue
20:14 cait i think similar for 3.22 and 3.18 :)
20:14 rangi 3.20.3 is on track, nothing special to report
20:14 drojf it is not allowed to make the list longer while the meeting is already running :P
20:14 cait could you give an update on 3.20?
20:13 cait morning rangi
20:13 rangi #info chris cormack, catalyst, NZ
20:13 cait some additions have been made
20:13 mtompset #info Mark Tompsett
20:13 cait btw, please all refresh the agenda
20:13 thd My friend is accused of having too nice a private library for his apartment.
20:13 cait #topic Update on releases 3.18 - 3.20
20:12 cait moving on :)
20:12 cait thx thd
20:12 thd When the ordeal is over I will resume my interrupted work on migrating databases etc. for the wiki.
20:12 pianohacker cool :)
20:11 thd I have been helping a friend avoid eviction for the past two months and for the next month.
20:11 thd I missed the opening of some recent meetings to announce the following.
20:11 cait hm?
20:10 thd wait
20:10 thd I missed the opening of some
20:10 cait ok, moving on :)
20:10 cait #link http://bywatersolutions.com/tag/nakug15/
20:10 cait i will do it
20:10 pianohacker can I #link it?
20:10 pianohacker sorry, took a bit to find
20:10 pianohacker http://bywatersolutions.com/tag/nakug15/
20:09 cait *waits*
20:08 pianohacker cait: one sec
20:08 cait some other announcement?
20:08 cait i will have to read the blog posts later then
20:08 cait ah wrong time i guess
20:08 pianohacker I think most everyone at Koha NA is out of channel
20:07 cait someone from KohaNa maybe?
20:07 cait #topic Announcements
20:07 cait slowly moving on then :)
20:06 barton cait++
20:06 cait http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting_5_August_2015
20:06 barton can somebody post the link to the meeting itinerary? please? :-)
20:06 bag HA
20:06 cait bag: try not to fall apart :)
20:06 talljoy #info joy nelson bywater
20:06 bag I’m getting pulled in other directions so I maybe in and out (sorry)
20:05 bag #info brendan gallagher bywater
20:05 drojf nope
20:05 cait oh
20:05 cait wnickc: #info? :)
20:05 barton #info Barton Chittenden, BWS, Louisville, KY, USA
20:05 cait i will give a little bit more time for people to show up
20:04 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York - Busy helping a friend avoid eviction for having too wonderful a private library
20:04 cait #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting_5_August_2015
20:04 drojf small meeting this time
20:04 cait I think we forgot again to send a reminder about th emeeting... :)
20:04 ikourmou #info Giannis Kourmoulis, A.U.Th. Greece
20:03 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
20:03 JesseM #info Jesse Maseto , ByWater Solutions , USA
20:03 drojf #info Mirko Tietgen, Berlin, Germany
20:03 pianohacker #info Jesse Weaver, ByWater Solutions
20:03 cait please follow wahanui's example and introduce yourself with #info
20:03 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
20:03 cait #topic introductions
20:03 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'general_irc_meeting_5_august_2015'
20:03 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
20:03 huginn Meeting started Wed Aug 5 20:03:16 2015 UTC. The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:03 cait #startmeeting General IRC meeting 5 August 2015
20:03 JesseM Hi ;P
20:02 ikourmou hi Jesse. yes, i remembered your nick
20:02 cait ok, let's get this started, one sec
20:02 cait me too
20:02 cait yay :)
20:01 ikourmou hi Katrin, of course i remember you
20:01 pianohacker ikourmou: sweet! I'm Jesse, I was the young American
20:01 * cait tries to wake up people
20:01 cait rangi is on the bus, he says 10 min
20:01 cait cait = Katrin
20:01 ikourmou not this year's though. it was the 2014
20:00 pianohacker ikourmou: were you there in 2014?
20:00 cait i think we have met then :)
19:59 ikourmou yes
19:59 cait have you been to the hackfest in marseille by chance?
19:59 ikourmou ok!
19:59 ikourmou :-)
19:58 drojf ikourmou: i am mirko by the way :)
19:58 cait e
19:58 cait i was hoping you might be from greece - from the nicknam
19:58 cait very exciting :)
19:58 ikourmou first time on an irc meeting, Mirko invited me so that i could talk about our kohacon proposal
19:57 cait ok, 3 minutes :)
19:56 drojf thanks for joining in from your vacation :)
19:56 drojf oh, ok
19:55 ikourmou I'm on vacation (southern Crete) and my connection is through a wifi hotspot...
19:55 pianohacker hallo
19:54 drojf ikourmou: the webchat thing is a bit unstable i think
19:54 ikourmou hi there. i seem to have some problems with my connection
19:53 cait hi ikourmou :)
19:52 cait cool idea with the redirect
19:52 drojf now ikourmou_ left us :/
19:52 cait could be a short one if it's only us :)
19:52 drojf yep
19:50 cait irc meeting in 10?
19:36 pianohacker m'excellent
19:36 drojf if you can come to an arrangement with the ever-growing raspberry there is room for one more ;)
19:32 pianohacker *sigh* jealous, it's been a crazy day and I'd happily join you
19:32 drojf its almost dark here and i am sitting on my balcony with a bottle of cidre, don't listen to me
19:32 pianohacker gotcha, though, thanks :)
19:32 pianohacker hey, this is an international open source project, we're _all_ supposed to be confused
19:32 drojf for general, but it was not too long ago i think
19:31 drojf :D
19:31 drojf stop confusing me
19:31 pianohacker *blink* for general, or dev meetings?
19:31 drojf you missed that we abandoned split meetings a few months ago?
19:30 pianohacker oh gosh, I missed the morning meeting, didn't I?
19:29 drojf *need to
19:29 drojf now we only need elect a "next general irc meeting redirect page update manager"
19:29 drojf my community contribution for today is this shiny new wiki page ;) http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Next_General_IRC_meeting
19:25 mtompset Oh, there's a system preference for that.
19:24 mtompset Where are course reserves in 3.20?
19:21 ikourmou_ tcochen: thanks!
19:21 * tcohen crawls back home to recover from the flu
19:21 tcohen bye #koha
19:19 wahanui Welcome to zombo.com
19:19 tcohen ikourmou_: welcome!
19:18 drojf thanks for joining us btw
19:18 tcohen mtompset: thanks
19:17 drojf ikourmou_ i can see you twice ;)
19:13 pianohacker *best first step
19:12 pianohacker ConanTheLibrari: while we're happy to help, the manual is often the best step if you're looking for instructions rather than troubleshooting :)
19:12 ConanTheLibrari pianohacker - checking now, thanks!
19:11 drojf hi ikourmou
19:10 pianohacker ConanTheLibrari: Hi! Have you checked the manual, as a first step? (not super familiar with labels)
19:10 ikourmou hello there
19:10 pianohacker hi ikourmou
19:10 ikourmou test
19:07 ConanTheLibrari am I missing something in the wiki?
19:07 mtompset Signed off. :)
19:07 ConanTheLibrari I'm a newbie with Koha and I'm wondering how to print / setup barcode labels?
19:01 tcohen if it is not needed, it doesn't hurt either I guess
19:00 tcohen git grep MetadataRecord
19:00 tcohen merging, in general
19:00 tcohen I think is used in the merge authorities code
18:59 mtompset I just did a pull before I started this.
18:59 mtompset Metadata is not used.
18:59 tcohen just to make sure is 100% backwards compatible
18:59 tcohen e
18:59 tcohen because that class is used ther
18:59 mtompset tcohen: Why "prove t/Koha_Util_MARC.t"?
18:57 mtompset Haven't had time to read all the code.
18:57 tcohen mtompset: do u understand that 'options' might not be necessary anymore as each record carries the relevant information?
18:46 tcohen we will still have Z fr a while, so we should learn to love it
18:46 mtompset One more time, and it would appear and kill us all. :P
18:45 tcohen :-P
18:45 tcohen the first one i introduced a typo on purpose
18:45 tcohen only one time
18:45 mtompset Nooooo.... you said the Z-word! :P
18:45 tcohen and it turned out that if I run rebuild_zebra.pl manually, with -x it works
18:44 tcohen i had issues rebuilding zerba indexes for authorities on one instance
18:43 mtompset :)
18:43 mtompset oh my gmcharlt?
18:43 tcohen i cannot name him in vain
18:42 mtompset oh my?
18:42 huginn tcohen: The operation succeeded.
18:42 tcohen @later tell gmcharlt I updated the bug, please let me know if the tests are what you had in mind. I like them and the solution makes real sense
18:40 tcohen oh my
18:38 tcohen mtompset: if we were to do that kind of check on OO code in the Koha codebase, we could even hook it rewriting some Perl bits in runtime so we don't write that on all the files
18:37 mtompset But, yes, an enhancement for later.
18:36 mtompset checking that $self is the right class is a reasonable sanity check. :P
18:36 tcohen hehehe
18:36 pianohacker There's sanity checking and there's knowing Perl OOP :)
18:35 pianohacker mtompset: that's a universal issue, and not one that I think we should feel responsible for
18:35 mtompset I'll sign the bug off, but that extra check would be nice to prevent stupid coder mistakes.
18:35 tcohen once we have this pushed, fill all the bugs you want to enhance it
18:35 mtompset but some newbie programmer might blah::new
18:34 mtompset Koha::MetadataRecord is an object and should be called blah->new
18:34 tcohen no, don't bomb the bug, just sign it!
18:34 tcohen what?
18:33 mtompset blah::new vs. blah->new
18:33 mtompset Include error checking for incorrect call format.
18:33 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14639 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Needs Signoff , Extend Koha::MetadataRecord to handle serialization format
18:33 mtompset Oh... tcohen I have a suggestion regarding bug 14639
18:33 mtompset Which makes sense, I suppose.
18:33 tcohen that carry more information about themselves
18:32 tcohen we will now pass Koha::MetadataRecord objects
18:32 tcohen mtompset: my plan is that instead of passing just MARC::Record objects (or XML::LibXML::Document, or JSON)
18:32 tcohen i know
18:32 mtompset The variable names are confusing. :P
18:31 mtompset Perhaps options.
18:31 mtompset params.
18:31 tcohen mtompset: filter? wasn't it about the options?
18:28 mtompset Both are needed for ultimate flexibility.
18:28 mtompset My solution was to fix the string/object issue in the initialize call area.
18:28 mtompset Your solution was to add filter as a second parameter.
18:27 mtompset Recall our discussion about how to fix up Koha::RecordProcessor?
18:27 mtompset Which reminds me... I should bug report that...
18:25 tcohen i didn't finish making the Koha::RecordProcessor changes to make it handle Koha::MetadataRecord object properly, but i'm almost done
18:25 huginn mtompset: gmcharlt was last seen in #koha 2 hours, 47 minutes, and 42 seconds ago: <gmcharlt> (as well as various interpretations, each of which individually is sensible, but collectively are too inconsistent to bear)
18:25 mtompset @seen gmcharlt
18:25 mtompset I'm noting the needs sign offs is gone almost to 200.
18:25 mtompset Ah.
18:24 tcohen my CC was so you test and sign :-D and we have the tech
18:24 mtompset tech/structures/objects/schemas.
18:24 tcohen what underllying tech?
18:24 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11592 major, P3, ---, mtompset, In Discussion , opac detail scripts do not respect MARC tag visibility
18:24 tcohen bug 11592
18:23 mtompset I noticed the CC on the bug... I figured that means, I just don't attempt anything on 11592 until the underlying tech stops moving on me. :P
18:23 tcohen hi mtompset
18:23 huginn mtompset: tcohen was last seen in #koha 45 minutes and 58 seconds ago: <tcohen> hi
18:23 mtompset @seen tcohen
18:22 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
18:06 huginn indradg: The operation succeeded.
18:06 indradg @later tell khall was wondering if the KohaNA 2015 sessions were being recorded/podcasted/transcripted now or anytime later?
18:04 pianohacker oh hahaha okay :)
18:04 indradg pianohacker: i know... bag asked me to ping him here :)
18:04 pianohacker worth leaving a later though, he may check in
18:03 pianohacker indradg: Kyle is currently at the Koha NA user's group meeting, and may not respond until next week
17:57 huginn indradg: khall was last seen in #koha 1 day, 5 hours, 34 minutes, and 11 seconds ago: <khall> sounds like a good plan
17:57 indradg @seen khall
17:57 indradg hello #koha
17:37 wahanui bonjour, tcohen
17:37 tcohen hi
16:23 jgabin When a reserve is waiting, and this reserve is expired, there is a cronjob that cancel this reserve, but, the next one, that has priority 1 is not set as W. Do I have to set it manually or there is a cron that do this job?
16:23 jgabin Anyone could help me? :(
16:18 Kchris kivilahtio: thanks for the pointers.
16:07 kivilahtio you are precious :)
16:07 kivilahtio bye #koha
16:04 kivilahtio like having development environments for different versions of linux, or different versions of Koha
16:04 kivilahtio but if you want something that can access the internet and doesnät need to be exposed to the public, it is very easy
16:03 kivilahtio configuring the nwtworking is more challenging and you need to know about iptables and friends to get it working
16:03 kivilahtio Kchris: LXC is actually dead easy
16:03 huginn` cait: The operation succeeded.
16:03 cait @later tell drojf noooooooooooooo - now you are gone and i want to know!
16:02 kivilahtio Kchris: we use LXC because I don't need any extra middleware to debug, like with Vagrant or Docker or whatnot
16:02 kivilahtio don't ditch it just yet, if you have made some investment in learning it
16:02 kivilahtio Kchris: but I would ask around some more about Vagrant
16:02 kivilahtio Kchris: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LXC
16:01 Kchris kivilahtio: where would one get started with LXC?
16:00 jgabin When a reserve is waiting, and this reserve is expired, there is a cronjob that cancel this reserve, but, the next one, that has priority 1 is not set as W. Do I have to set it manually or there is a cron that do this job?
15:59 jgabin I have a question about reserves
15:59 kivilahtio Kchris: sorry, I don't know anything about Vagrant. We use pure LXC. It works :)
15:58 jgabin hello!
15:58 Kchris I have been trying to set up a development/testing environment with kohadevbox. I have had Koha running on it at times, but sometimes "vagrant up" fails. I am not really clear why.I get error messages such as "File [/home/vagrant/kohaclone/koha_perl_deps.pl] is not executable!
15:53 kivilahtio what do you mean?
15:53 kivilahtio pianohacker: can you elaborate that a bit?
15:51 pianohacker caching has the potential to create enough weird issues, especially in Perl, that they probably want to make sure you know what you're doing
15:50 kivilahtio Well how goes the saying? "Assume, makes an ass out of you and me" :)
15:50 kivilahtio Apparently DBIx doesnt do transparent caching?? I am surprised to find an ORM that doesn't.
15:49 pianohacker kivilahtio: hmm, yeah, technically redundant but might create a circular reference
15:48 kivilahtio pianohacker: you could do:: $item->biblio($biblio); $biblio->addItem($item); Which might get us into trouble
15:44 kivilahtio but also expensive DB calls for something which DBIx should automatically cache in the process memory
15:44 kivilahtio thus no circular reference
15:44 pianohacker right, same data but different object
15:44 kivilahtio it has the same data.
15:43 kivilahtio which is cloned in the biblio-object
15:43 kivilahtio pianohacker: it gets you back to a basically cloned object of the original item
15:43 wahanui apache is probably the ram hog
15:43 Koha_User Where can i find apache?
15:42 wahanui bidet, Koha_User
15:42 Koha_User Hello
15:42 pianohacker kivilahtio: so in other words, $item->biblio()->items()->[0], say, would not get you back to $item?
15:38 kivilahtio bye!
15:38 tcohen bye Joubu !
15:38 kivilahtio anyway. Just saying that there should be no circular reference issues with the way we currently get referenced objects.
15:38 gmcharlt (as well as various interpretations, each of which individually is sensible, but collectively are too inconsistent to bear)
15:38 Joubu Have to go, have a good day/evening #koha
15:37 kivilahtio and if we update one referenced version of the same business data the changes wont propagate to the other existing implementation. Not sure if that is bad, but it is inefficient.
15:37 gmcharlt (not that falling back to bib-level is an inherently silly notion -- not at all -- but it wouldn't be universally expected either, and we're in a situation where we've got the dead weight of history to deal with)
15:36 kivilahtio The downside is that DBIx doesnät do caching, or it summons a completely new resultset object for all of these different objects. Thus we don't get any caching
15:36 gmcharlt general idea is that if you set item-level_itypes, one *must* always set an item type for each item
15:35 kivilahtio sorry for getting hyped up.
15:35 kivilahtio so there is no circular reference when using DBIx or Koha::Object.
15:35 gmcharlt tcohen: cait: falling back across the board would be... new behavior
15:35 kivilahtio tcohen: Joubu: Ran some tests and the circular referencing object are actually different objects, even if they represent the same business data.
15:33 tcohen hi pianohacker
15:33 nengard hi pianohacker
15:31 pianohacker morning
15:08 * tcohen ends blasphemous mode
15:08 tcohen sorry
15:08 tcohen damn
15:08 tcohen ok, i'll fill a new bug...
15:06 cait i'd think it would make some sense to have it fallback
15:06 cait most likely
15:06 tcohen and some doesn't :-D
15:06 cait but ... not sure that's consistently so
15:06 cait i think some of the code falls back to bibio.itemtype
15:06 cait nope
15:05 kivilahtio prolly not :(
15:05 kivilahtio tcohen: item.ccode?
15:04 tcohen gmcharlt: do u remember what is supposed to be the behaviour when item.itemtype is NULL? fallback to biblio-level itype?
14:56 cait we'd have to read the code to see if the numeric hidden value it translates too has actually an effect
14:56 * nengard is being sarcastic
14:56 nengard hehe
14:56 nengard well that's encouraging
14:56 cait nengard: i think noone knows
14:55 wnickc There is a mention in the help for the page, but only says it is exclusive to all other options
14:55 wahanui salut, tcohen
14:55 tcohen hi
14:54 nengard tcohen cait?
14:54 nengard anyone else know??
14:54 nengard apparently the documentation manager had no clue cause she didn't include it in the manual
14:53 nengard um .... hehe
14:53 nengard OH!!!
14:53 wnickc Editing a subfield, under avdanced constraints with visibility
14:52 nengard I don't see it in the db or eding a framework
14:52 nengard wnickc in what context?
14:51 nengard um ....
14:47 wnickc Anyone know what flagged does in frameworks
14:37 wnickc Not surprising, she is good at that, I can just see Kyle doing the blog from my chair
14:37 * cait hopes for lots of testing of the new cataloguing editor
14:36 nengard I keep linking to her :)
14:36 nengard wnickc heather is doing a great job reporting on her own blog too
14:36 wnickc Hi cait
14:36 cait missed nengards question - don't answer
14:36 cait oh
14:35 cait wnickc: are you at kohana?
14:34 wnickc Khall is doing a nice job of recording on the Bywater blog
14:33 wnickc I am, no power near me so running on my phone and checking sporadically
14:33 kivilahtio tcohen: reading you loud and clear
14:31 tcohen and we don't follow it (if you look at updatedatabase.pl) :-P
14:31 tcohen the only mandatory guideline we embraced was not using plain SQL anymore
14:30 tcohen kivilahtio: you can either: provide a fix to Koha::Object(s), and/or stick with DBIx for that specific project from yours, when we adopted Koha::Object(s) is was explicitly stated that it wouldn't be mandatory to use them.
14:26 nengard are you at kohana
14:26 nengard hola wnickc
14:25 cait hmif someone talked to me in the last hour..... my irc client died and with it all the messages - please resent *sigh*
14:21 kivilahtio and do a lot of extra magic
14:21 Joubu that's why you have to provide a fix quickly!! :)
14:21 kivilahtio I am no DBIx expert, frankly I barely get by, but I think DBIx will deal with this mess for us
14:21 kivilahtio this is not something you fix with DBIx or Koha::Object, you have to refactor every subroutine with this programming pattern.
14:20 kivilahtio and I see this pattern everywhere
14:20 kivilahtio and they both store a reference to each others...
14:20 kivilahtio if contacts has similar subroutine which returns the object getting the contacts
14:20 kivilahtio return $self->{contacts};
14:20 kivilahtio $self->{contacts} = Koha::Acquisition::Bookseller::Contacts->search( { booksellerid => $self->id } );
14:20 kivilahtio sub contacts {
14:19 kivilahtio Joubu: we have to change every Koha::Object subclass ecause the code is each object references getter
14:19 Joubu kivilahtio: no matter if we have a layer with stupid methods like that. To me it's not important, just because it will be easy to fix when we will find a global fix
14:17 kivilahtio I am thinking :)
14:17 kivilahtio Joubu: thanks for the feedback
14:17 Joubu kivilahtio: really if you have a good option, I will be the first to be happy
14:16 Joubu no need to rewrite the callers
14:16 Joubu you will be able to replace Koha::Booksellers with what you like
14:16 Joubu I meant, if you manage to clean pl file and add readable code : my $baskets = Koha::Booksellers->find($id)->baskets
14:15 Joubu yes I know: it's not elegant, but extendable.
14:12 kivilahtio + return $self->{_result}->aqbaskets;
14:12 kivilahtio +sub baskets {
14:11 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11431 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Failed QA , Add additional sound options for warnings
14:11 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14544 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, In Discussion , Move the list related code to Koha::Virtualshelves
14:11 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13726 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Koha::Acquisition::Bookseller should use Koha::Object
14:11 Joubu bug 13726, bug 14544, bug 11431
14:11 kivilahtio something like "use base qw(Koha::Object Koha/Schema/Result/Subscription);"
14:10 kivilahtio Joubu: I don't feel ok with Koha::Object. I think I will try a tech sprint by doing multiple inheritance with DBIx and Koha::Object
14:09 kivilahtio Joubu: something which actually does something more complex in production thatn just search/find
14:09 kivilahtio and encoutner real issues you are bound to face when working with multiple referencing objects, like biblio-biblioitems and subscriptions
14:09 Joubu what is "real production code"?
14:08 kivilahtio Joubu: I am not saying Koha::Object is a bad thing, but I would have like somebody to actually write real production code with it before pushing it to master
14:08 kivilahtio Joubu: I am thinking of it
14:08 Joubu feel free to suggest something else
14:07 Joubu ok it's not perfect, but at least we have something into master
14:07 Joubu kivilahtio: the thing is we almost agree on Koha::Object after 4 years of "discussion"
14:07 kivilahtio also I rewrite what DBIx already does for us
14:07 kivilahtio this hapened to me when doing our data migration scripts. Man it was painful to track circular references
14:06 kivilahtio we cannot destroy the linkings if we lose the references to the biblios
14:06 kivilahtio for ex if koha.biblio and koha.biblioitems for the same biblionumber get their biblio and biblioitems invoked using these Koha::Object relational accessors we get a circular reference and that wont get garbage collected unless we explicitly destroy the linkings
14:05 kivilahtio and we don't cache the linked resource in the Koha::Object-implementations $self->{linkedresource}
14:04 kivilahtio we can just say $subscription->numberpattern() calling the DBIx
14:04 kivilahtio so instead of saying $subscription->_result()->numberpattern();
14:03 kivilahtio and my fingers are starting to hurt and I don't want to do that anymore
14:03 kivilahtio you have to implement a separate subroutine to access linked resources even if DBIx would do it for us, that is a lot of extra code we need writing.
14:03 kivilahtio implementing these Koha::Object subclasses is no easier than with DBI
14:02 kivilahtio this would lead to much much more prettier code
14:02 kivilahtio we should inherit the Koha/Schema/Result/Object
14:02 kivilahtio tcohen: also I feel dump rewriting the exact same code DBIx enables, but DBIx prolly takes care of the circular references issues for u
14:01 kivilahtio tcohen: they way we access linked resources from one object will sooner or later lead to circular references
14:01 tcohen kivilahtio: elaborate, did you find limitations?
14:01 kivilahtio tcohen: I am worried about the Koha::Object system and that it I am starting to see things with it
14:01 tcohen kivilahtio: weren't you about to complain about something?
13:48 Shane-S can I jus do cpan upgrade (/(.*)/ or something like that, or do the Perl modules need to be handle individually? I installed from packages back like 3.08 then to 3.12 and now from 3.12-> 3.20 and apt-get isn't touching Perl
13:34 gmcharlt will do
13:34 tcohen gmcharlt: i will post a followup with explicit tests for the case bl-itype && il-itype are defined for the item, and bl-itype is set, could you please review it?
13:32 gmcharlt it occurs to me that clearest change to GetItem() would be to have it add an effective_itemtype to its return value
13:32 tcohen Maybe sub GetItem { my $itemnumber = shift; return Koha::Item->search({ itemnumber => $itemnumber }) }
13:31 gmcharlt but a local fix to AddReturn() can be done in parallel
13:31 gmcharlt tcohen: yeah, arguably changing GetItem() is a separate bug
13:30 Joubu indeed
13:30 tcohen yes, that's what gmcharlt pointed about the schema
13:30 Joubu tcohen: khall did something will an "effective_ittemtype" or something
13:30 * tcohen means that for fixing GetItem
13:29 tcohen gmcharlt: i see what you mean, but I suspect that belongs to a separate bug
13:28 gmcharlt or line 622 in Koha/Schema/Result/Item.pm
13:28 tcohen ok
13:27 gmcharlt see C4::Circulation::TooMany() for an example of the logic I have in mind
13:27 gmcharlt i.e., not quite the same thing
13:27 gmcharlt when the expecation is that it return the bib-level type
13:27 gmcharlt tcohen: but in the case where item-level_itypes is off, but the items.itemtype is populated... it returns the item-level type
13:26 tcohen so the item always carries an itemtype
13:25 tcohen gmcharlt: C4/Items.pm:179-183
13:24 tcohen i noticed on writing the tests, that if bib-level itypes are set, the bib-level itype is recorded on the item
13:24 kivilahtio well, just asking, take care!
13:24 kivilahtio Looking at the code, it feels like O(n) * O(n) * O(n) is starting to add up
13:23 tcohen gmcharlt: you mean you will extend the regression tests?
13:23 gmcharlt tcohen: upshot - please poke me tomorrow and I will emit a counter-patch for discussion
13:23 Shane-S I have another Question, the PERL tab in About Koha reports 4 things yellow, and 2 red...how can I get PERL to add the missing or warnings?
13:23 kivilahtio has anybody done any performance tests with Koha::Object vs DBIx::Class related to referenced table access?
13:23 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9351 major, P5 - low, ---, fridolin.somers, Failed QA , item type not recorded correctly in statistics for returns and some local use
13:23 gmcharlt tcohen: reaction two - same thing for bug 9351
13:22 Shane-S Joubu: I did before the restart as per the DOM conversion Wiki...seems fine now
13:22 kivilahtio and that is very hard :)
13:22 Joubu Shane-S: Have you reindexed?
13:22 Shane-S so I rebooted...and the C4 error went away
13:22 kivilahtio I have been working with these Koha::Objects and mainly accessing referenced tables
13:22 tcohen heh
13:22 gmcharlt tcohen: reaction 1 - 14598 lacks an explicit test of the item-levels_itypes systpref, and since GetItems() doesn't do it...
13:21 kivilahtio tcohen: sorry to ruin your day but I came here to complain/discuss
13:21 kivilahtio hey but I do!
13:21 kivilahtio boy if that had a regression test
13:21 tcohen kivilahtio: sarcasm is discouraged here
13:20 kivilahtio I might crawl back to where I came from
13:20 kivilahtio tcohen: nice! That is something I would love to hear when returning from a loong holiday
13:18 tcohen CanBookBeIssued... is used... to record localuse loans... *blink*
13:17 * tcohen blinks
13:11 tcohen hi nengard
13:11 nengard hi all
13:11 Shane-S Now I get: Error: Can't call method "raw" on an undefined value at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Search.pm line 799. when I do a search
13:11 tcohen gmcharlt: done
13:11 Shane-S Hi all, I had to switch to DOM...followed http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Switching_to_dom_indexing. I got all my errors sorted, and checked system info...no issues there....however...
13:10 tcohen i'm adding my opinion on frido's
13:10 gmcharlt looking
13:10 tcohen you have more insight on how we deal with itemtypes, can you take a look?
13:09 tcohen I missed frido's, but I'm not happy with the patches either
13:09 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14598 normal, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Signed Off , itemtype is not set on statistics by C4::Circulation::AddReturn
13:09 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9351 major, P5 - low, ---, fridolin.somers, Failed QA , item type not recorded correctly in statistics for returns and some local use
13:09 tcohen gmcharlt: bug 9351 vs. bug 14598
13:09 gmcharlt tcohen: hmm?
13:08 tcohen gmcharlt: around?
12:47 tcohen cait
12:44 tcohen heh
12:44 tcohen waiiiit
12:44 tcohen no no
12:44 Joubu tcohen: lunch time ;)
12:44 Joubu I never know if everything is correctly checked
12:43 Joubu tcohen: it seems to work, but itemtypes make me crazy...
12:42 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14598 normal, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Signed Off , itemtype is not set on statistics by C4::Circulation::AddReturn
12:42 tcohen Joubu: what's your first thought about bug 14598? Maybe we should extract the regression tests for the original bug?
12:41 tcohen hi Joubu
12:41 Joubu tcohen: o/
12:41 misilot Joubu: :(
12:41 tcohen hi #koha
12:40 Joubu misilot: Not using the interface
12:33 misilot is there an easy way to mass modify course reserve? (ie a list of barcodes remove from any course they are attached to?)
11:55 nikesh join #koha
11:14 gaetan_B bye
10:42 Francesca goodnight
10:42 Francesca now to bed
10:42 Francesca essay is finished!
10:42 * Francesca does a happy dance
09:05 cdickinson it has to be finished for that, though :P
09:05 cdickinson in that case, I'll look forward to it
09:04 Francesca you'll see
09:02 cdickinson is it about the wild cats that basically become pests?
09:02 cdickinson yeah, I'll proof read it for you
09:01 Francesca I'll send you the draft another day
09:01 Francesca don't think that'd pass somehow
09:01 Francesca nope
09:01 cdickinson because you're probably not writing about how cute cats are :P
09:00 Francesca who knew writing about cats could be so hard
08:58 Francesca ish
08:58 cdickinson is it coming along? :P
08:58 * Francesca should return to her cat essay
08:58 Francesca anyways
08:58 Francesca I couldn't resist
08:57 cdickinson that pirate thing is clever
08:57 Francesca I haven't done anything see?
08:57 Francesca cdickinson: look up
08:57 wahanui cdickinson: cdickinson =is= <reply> I run Windows. Don't judge me.|a Linux admin who runs Windows. (blasphemer.)|<reply> cdickinson's worst fear is the worst fear of every programmer - the silent server fail
08:57 cdickinson literal cdickinson
08:57 Francesca I'm not going to do anything
08:56 cdickinson don't you do what I think you're going to do
08:56 nlegrand I have been using OpenBSD for a long time and juged everyone else. Now I'm on Debian and I feel like a hippie.
08:56 wahanui aye aye cap'n
08:56 Francesca wahanui roger that?
08:56 Francesca hehehehe
08:56 cdickinson oh boy
08:55 Francesca cdickinson the shell dweller
08:55 Francesca lol
08:55 cdickinson and live in shells
08:55 cdickinson have countless Ubuntu VMs for many different things here
08:55 Francesca but I have a vm with ubuntu installed
08:55 cdickinson lol
08:55 Francesca I run mac don't judge me
08:55 cait ok, now i am judging you ;)
08:55 Francesca hehehehe
08:54 cdickinson do I get a pass simply for being too lazy to replace it with Linux? :P
08:54 cait ... so hardly in a position to give him a hard time really
08:54 cait but ubuntu at home and debian for my dev environment here
08:54 cdickinson why hello there, Francesca
08:54 cait i am using windows at work too :)
08:49 Francesca (the wellington team so totally is)
08:49 Francesca cait: are you judging him yet?
08:49 cait ;)
08:49 cait ew
08:49 wahanui I run Windows. Don't judge me.
08:49 Francesca hey cdickinson
08:48 Francesca hello
08:47 nlegrand hello #koha
08:27 kivilahtio Joubu++
08:27 kivilahtio Joubu: the way you partitioned Koha::Acquisition::Bookseller::Contact is very good!
07:16 drojf not translatable either :/
07:08 huginn` Francesca: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 9.0°C (7:00 PM NZST on August 05, 2015). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Steady).
07:08 Francesca @wunder wlg
07:06 dcook drojf: Can't remember. Sorry :/
07:04 alex_a bonjour
07:01 drojf in serials, if i use 'manual history', does that mean nothing is filledinautomatically? i set up a subscription and received a few issues, but if i choose 'edit history' it's empty. is it supposed to be?
06:58 wahanui bidet, gaetan_B
06:58 gaetan_B hello
06:52 Francesca cat bot might be a better description
06:52 cdickinphone A cat person then
06:51 wahanui cats are endlessly entertaining.
06:51 Francesca wahanui: cats
06:51 Francesca hey cdickinphone_ check this out
06:50 Francesca *mine
06:50 Francesca my are particularly adorable
06:50 Francesca cats are adorable
06:48 dcook I feel like that sums up my feelings about them :p
06:48 dcook [off] https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153099337778947&set=a.10151008037238947.416668.517028946&type=1&theater
06:48 cdickinphone Whoop
06:48 dcook They are adorable though
06:48 dcook cdickinphone_: hehe yep
06:48 dcook Francesca: Technically they're my wife's cats :p
06:46 Francesca ok
06:46 Francesca hahaha
06:45 cdickinphone_ He might have a significant other that calls the shots on that one
06:44 Francesca dcook: you have cats but you're not a cat person??
06:43 cait brb
06:43 cait Francesca: :)
06:43 * dcook isn't a pet person despite having two cats
06:42 Francesca or should they be left alone, but have more regulations
06:42 Francesca dcook: Should cats be exterminated so as the preserve wildlife in nz
06:42 dcook Reminds me that I haven't seen gmcharlt around here in ages...
06:42 Francesca cait: I could send you my fanpen
06:42 dcook What's the debate?
06:42 dcook Or maybe you can!
06:42 dcook Can't go wrong with cats
06:41 Francesca Its about cats
06:41 dcook cait: :(
06:41 dcook Francesca: Nice :)
06:41 Francesca dcook: I have a topic for my essay now!
06:41 cait supposed to go over 30 agan this week :(
06:41 cait if it stayed at 20... there would be no problem
06:41 Francesca hey cait, dcook
06:33 huginn` dcook: The current temperature in Sydney, New South Wales is 16.0°C (4:00 PM AEST on August 05, 2015). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 31%. Dew Point: -1.0°C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010 hPa (Steady).
06:33 dcook heya cait
06:33 dcook @wunder syd
06:33 huginn` cait: The current temperature in Bodensee Konstanz City, Konstanz, Germany is 20.7°C (8:32 AM CEST on August 05, 2015). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 67%. Dew Point: 14.0°C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Steady).
06:33 cait @wunder Konstanz
06:32 dcook Ah right..
06:32 dcook That moment when you sit back down and try to remember what you were doing..
06:27 Francesca morning Joubu
06:23 Joubu morning #koha
06:21 Francesca its for my writing elective
06:21 Francesca I may be a music major, but the cat essay is not for a music paper
06:21 Francesca don't laugh at me
06:16 * liw is wearing a t-shirt saying "Eine kleine Tasse Schokoladenschnitzel mit Bananenkartoffeln und Kabelsalat auf der Hauptbahnhof, bitte" and should probably stay out of this discussion
06:09 drojf in german, we have the word "katzenmusik" (literally 'cat music') for cacophony, and for something that apparently is called 'rough music' in english https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rough_music
06:05 cdickinphone I do Japanese, as an Engineering major
06:05 cdickinphone ^ lol
06:04 drojf as a music major?
05:55 * Francesca is now writing an essay on cats
05:50 Francesca that is good
05:49 gavitor exit
05:49 gavitor Hello?
05:49 drojf much cooler today. and my flat is back to a normal temperature :)
05:48 huginn` Francesca: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 11.0°C (5:30 PM NZST on August 05, 2015). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 67%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa (Steady).
05:48 Francesca @wunder wlg
05:48 huginn` drojf: The current temperature in Berlin Tegel, Germany is 17.0°C (7:20 AM CEST on August 05, 2015). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 15.0°C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Rising).
05:48 drojf @wunder berlin, germany
05:48 drojf hi Francesca
05:47 Francesca morning
05:47 drojf morning #koha
05:35 gavitor Anyone getting my feed? I am having internet connectivity issues currently.......
05:26 gavitor Hello all....I am a new user and having successfully installed KOHA 3.20 on Monday I have found that I can't log on properly today...
04:51 dcook I think I saw that a while back
04:51 dcook Ahhh right
04:46 eythian http://git.catalyst.net.nz/gw?p=koha.git;a=blob;f=Koha/SearchEngine/Elasticsearch/QueryBuilder.pm;h=386073c6f44d31f1506c73330eaf5aeeeb35475a;hb=refs/heads/elastic_search#l155 <-- at the moment, I don't have to as the compatibility functions do that.
04:45 dcook So how are you going to handle regular free form search queries?
04:44 dcook For sure
04:44 eythian yeah, it's something we ought to have standard formats for really
04:44 dcook Koha definitely needs more coherent search in every way..
04:44 dcook eythian: I had to do something similar a little while back making a basic Koha search API
04:44 chrisvella hahaha
04:43 dcook You guys have a lot of channels, eh? ;p
04:43 chrisvella or he has chrisvella_ as a spy... who knows ;)
04:43 mtj shush dcook :0)
04:43 chrisvella mtj is playing around with nicks in our own channel
04:43 dcook eythian: Looks like it does the trick
04:42 chrisvella hahaha
04:42 eythian I always thought so
04:42 dcook mtj and chrisvella are one in the same?!
04:42 eythian it basically fufills my current needs and not a whole lot more :)
04:41 eythian http://paste.koha-community.org/35 <-- dcook, what I ended up with instead.
04:38 dcook I can't say I've missed it..
04:38 dcook Oh man... it feels like ages since I've done any web design
04:30 dcook I have no doubt there is, but it would be time consuming to discover it :/
04:29 eythian s'ok. I was just hopeful that there was something sensible there I could use, but it seems not :)
04:29 dcook sorry I couldn't help more, eythian :/
04:29 dcook Anywho, I should probably work on something else atm
04:28 dcook That might be the easiest way to do it
04:28 dcook You know... might be an idea to chat to Mike Rylander about it
04:27 eythian heh yeah
04:27 dcook Besides the lack of documentation :/
04:27 dcook That's actually sort of heartening I think
04:26 dcook Last modified 2013-11-26
04:26 dcook I'm guessing perhaps not
04:26 dcook http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=blob;f=Open-ILS/src/perlmods/lib/OpenILS/Application/Storage/QueryParser.pm;h=1b5458d2b9fb03822fe0bab1b9ec247863332ba8;hb=HEAD
04:24 dcook I sometimes wonder if the upstream Query Parser has been improved
04:24 dcook Yeah, I can't fault you for that
04:24 dcook I think it might go "query_plan" -> "node" -> "atom"
04:21 eythian screw it, I'm going to just make up a simple form that'll do the job now, and note that whoever failed to document the queryparser can be the person to convert it to use that in the future.
04:20 dcook In my day, everything was written in Greek, and we just hoped it worked!
04:20 eythian heh
04:20 dcook Bah, kids these days. They want everything written out for them!
04:20 eythian if only it actually said somewhere what it is that it returns
04:20 dcook Hmm I see something about abstract queries. That would be good..
04:19 eythian yeah, that would make sense
04:19 dcook I recall atoms also being important
04:19 dcook I figure it's output is the same output that you'd want to generate
04:19 dcook Which decomposes a free-form text string
04:19 dcook Ah, I'm just looking through "decompose"
04:18 eythian I don't know what any of that is :)
04:18 dcook I'm not sure how "top_plan" or "plan_level" factor in
04:17 dcook classed_node
04:16 dcook $struct->add_node
04:15 dcook $self->new_plan
04:15 eythian then I'd at least know if I was searching the right place.
04:15 dcook For sure
04:15 eythian if it had a nice bit somewhere saying what it does, that'd be a pleasant start.
04:14 dcook I'd look at the "decompose" function in QueryParser.pm
04:14 eythian yeah
04:14 dcook But since it's not...
04:14 dcook If the QueryParser were already an integral part of Koha, I'd say it would be a requirement
04:13 dcook Yeah, I know that feeling
04:13 eythian but I'm not sure it's not a waste of time
04:13 eythian I could
04:11 dcook But you could probably reverse-engineer what jcamins did?
04:10 dcook I'm amazed that someone was able to keep it all in their head without documentation to be honest
04:10 dcook It's certainly suboptimal :(
04:09 eythian it doesn't even have a copyright header :/
04:09 dcook Yeah, I spent hours just tearing it apart because of the lack of documentation :/
04:09 eythian http://perldoc.koha-community.org/OpenILS/QueryParser.html <--it's underdocumented
04:09 dcook and the Koha::QueryParser modules
04:08 dcook Definitely take a look at OpenILS::QueryParser
04:07 dcook Hmm
04:07 dcook Mmm I think I get you
04:07 eythian so if I can move it around in some sane format, that's good.
04:07 eythian so I don't have to deal with rubbish input
04:07 eythian well, there's no human typing a search term
04:07 dcook What do you mean about everything being computer generated?
04:07 eythian yes, a query tree would be good.
04:06 dcook Well, it's an internal format, I think
04:06 dcook But it's format is a parsed query tree I think
04:06 eythian right. but where can I find what X is?
04:06 dcook It would take a string and turn it into its own format X... then your driver would turn it from format X into a specific query language, yeah, I think so
04:05 dcook Hmm
04:05 eythian so I have to make up my own intermediate query language
04:04 eythian but that doesn't seem to be what happens.
04:04 eythian then I could just use X to be consistent
04:04 eythian e.g. it'd take a string, turn it to format X, then other things turn format X into a specific query language.
04:03 eythian but that doesn't seem to be how it works
04:03 eythian I was hoping that the QP has some nice standard intermediate format that I could steal
04:03 cdickinphone Francesca: what else do you do apart from that? You don't try to find common ground?
04:02 eythian so, I don't need to parse strings or anything
04:02 dcook Hmm?
04:02 dcook In the long-term, I would think it's the way to go?
04:02 eythian well, I'm in a position where everything is computer generated
04:02 dcook Although I think you'd have to write a driver for it
04:02 dcook Ideally, you could use the query parser
04:01 dcook That it does
04:01 eythian because parsing strings sucks
04:01 eythian I'm looking for some nice generic search structure that I can use, that I can transmute into an ES query.
04:01 dcook eythian: It needs some work :/
04:01 dcook As our implementation doesn't work the same as Evergreen's
04:01 dcook The link is both helpful/unhelpful
04:01 eythian it looks like it doesn't do what I wanted anyway
04:01 dcook http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=documentation:technical:search_grammar
04:00 eythian oh
04:00 dcook Hmm..
04:00 wahanui i heard probably was not, but i do not know another way
04:00 eythian probably
04:00 eythian heh
04:00 eythian in particular, I'm interested in its inputs and outputs
04:00 dcook insane?
04:00 eythian dcook: if I want to quickly learn about the query parser stuff, where would I go?
03:59 Francesca yup
03:59 cdickinphone And explore the debate... Are you supposed to take two opposing arguments and analyse them?
03:58 cdickinphone Okay
03:58 Francesca cdickinphone: yup
03:57 dcook (mostly because the experts weren't often that logical...)
03:57 cdickinphone I guess they want it to be cited?
03:57 * dcook always preferred to use logic than experts in his essays
03:56 cdickinphone Yeah, that sucks :(
03:56 cdickinphone Oh
03:56 Francesca but the tutor said it wasn't a strong enough debate, and didn't have enough expert opinions
03:56 Francesca I was going to write about the airport
03:55 Francesca in my case: obesity in nz
03:55 cdickinphone The debate being?
03:55 dcook No shortage of that on the internet
03:55 Francesca we are to 'explore a debate'
03:54 dcook I would say the people in #koha but I suppose not all of my work winds up here. Less and less really :/
03:54 cdickinphone Can you give me more of an idea of what they want?
03:54 dcook That's a good question
03:54 Francesca hahahahaha is there someone else we should ask?
03:53 dcook Well, in my self-critical opinion. I might be biased...
03:53 Francesca lol
03:53 * dcook learns on the job and somehow manages to not suck at it :p
03:53 Francesca yeah I think my tutor is fond of the learning on the job idea
03:53 * dcook would be avoiding this project as well in this case
03:53 Francesca cdickinphone: no idea
03:53 dcook Well then they should teach you, no? :p
03:52 Francesca but the course is called something like introduction to essay writing
03:52 cdickinphone How can a proposal not propose something?
03:52 Francesca I dunno
03:52 dcook How can a proposal be an essay? :S
03:52 Francesca its not all due tomorrow
03:52 dcook O_o
03:52 Francesca proposal, critique a source, and research
03:52 Francesca according to the course outline we write 3 essays
03:52 dcook Francesca: Every time I wrote an essay, I felt like I had to teach myself how to write essays all over again.
03:51 cdickinphone_ Francesca: what are you proposing then?
03:51 Francesca lol
03:51 dcook Although when I wrote a paper about A Scanner Darkly comparing the film and book, I was pretty disappointed as it was clear the prof wanted the paper written his way
03:51 Francesca cdickinphone_ : I don't think they're looking for a solution
03:50 dcook It was good times
03:50 dcook In my fourth year, I think I was writing essays about Ghost in the Shell
03:50 Francesca and really? essays? fun?
03:50 Francesca ugh 2 more years
03:50 dcook But usually not until third year..
03:50 cdickinphone_ Francesca: 1. Problem, 2. Proposed Solution, 3. Evaluation, 4. Requirements
03:50 dcook Essays can be fun!
03:48 Francesca no essays
03:48 Francesca The stuff I do for #koha is mainly web based
03:48 Francesca lol
03:48 dcook Well, other than my Bugzilla test plans. Those are practically essays.
03:48 * Francesca is jealous
03:48 * dcook is glad he doesn't have to write essays anymore
03:48 dcook Fun times!
03:47 Francesca course is called WRIT 101
03:47 Francesca nope its for an elective
03:47 dcook Is the essay about music or is it for an elective?
03:47 Francesca unfortunately that still means essays
03:47 * Francesca is a music major
03:46 dcook Git all the things!
03:46 dcook Just tweaked the EDS plugin :). I think I'll send along a pull request in a little bit
03:46 * dcook was an English major, so he's written a loooot of essays
03:42 Francesca ok
03:42 cdickinphone_ When i had to do the proposal for my project, there was four major points they boiled down to
03:35 Francesca anyone got any tips on writing a proposal?
03:32 Francesca just also working on other things at the same time
03:31 Francesca i am kinda doing it
03:31 Francesca lol
03:31 ibeardslee /kick Francesca Do your essay!
03:31 Francesca essay writing is evil
03:31 dcook Certainly a worthwhile effort :p
03:30 Francesca I'm avoiding writing an essay
03:30 dcook Mmm keeping super busy
03:30 Francesca what's up in your little corner of the world?
03:30 dcook yo Francesca :)
03:29 Francesca hi dccok!!
03:29 dcook That's really handy actually..
03:28 dcook Sweet as
03:28 dcook You can upgrade plugins just by uploading them again...
03:28 dcook Oooh
03:12 dcook Oh well. That's why I love open source. People can find and fix problems :D
02:59 dcook I thought it was supposed to "auto expire" though..
02:58 * dcook thinks perhaps the EDS plugin sets TTLs but doesn't get TTLs...
02:57 dcook Hmm the value in jStorage_update is about an hour ago...
02:52 dcook Mmm maybe it does..
02:51 dcook Interesting... not sure if there's actually an update mechanism for the local storage :S
02:44 dcook Which happened in this case because of an upgrade from 1.6 to 1.8...
02:41 dcook But not checked at all..
02:41 dcook Which is stored in local storage...
02:39 dcook It's because of DefaultParameters... or lack thereof...
02:30 dcook For any Pixies fans: https://play.spotify.com/track/4jNQkWhuzqrbqQuqanFFJ6
02:16 dcook Nope..
02:16 dcook Ah I think I know..
02:15 dcook But somehow it's the local storage :S
02:15 dcook Hmm nope not that..
02:14 * dcook tests this again
02:14 dcook I think it's because I updated the authentication info..
02:12 eythian erg
02:11 dcook That won't be fun telling a bunch of users that they need to clear their local storage...
02:11 dcook Yep. Local storage is me problem. Oh nose...
02:10 dcook Ugh maybe it's not a cookie maybe it's local storage..
02:05 eythian heh
02:05 dcook "My password is 'policeofficer' all lowercase."
02:05 dcook I'm midway through season 7 right now and my favourite line?
02:04 eythian yep
02:04 dcook eythian: Have you seen Weeds?
02:04 dcook Permission issue. Zap!
02:03 dcook Can't even uninstall the plugin in one of them :S
02:03 dcook Oh man... updating plugins for 4 different instances and they're each giving me their own special problems..
01:58 dcook That's not nice..
01:58 dcook Yep... cookie troubles
01:56 dcook Looks like maybe some missing cookie or something? :S
01:54 dcook But this didn't happen on my dev install yesterday...
01:54 dcook or something is..
01:54 dcook Yeah, for some reason when I search for "test" the EDS plugin is adding "undefined" into the search query
01:53 eythian but deadly
01:52 dcook Especially when they're silent..
01:52 dcook Ergh... unexpected errors are the worst
01:30 dcook Been too long since I set the thing up..
01:30 dcook I can't tell if the path I had in my dev was set by me or a default or what
01:30 dcook Cool. That makes sense
01:30 eythian and put the plugin in there
01:30 eythian I think I just set it to /var/lib/koha/instancename/plugins
01:29 dcook hey wizzyrea_, eythian, rangi: might one of you let me know what's in a sample <pluginsdir>?
01:00 * dcook needed a bigger desk to accomodate the second monitor and all these cookies and donuts...
00:59 dcook That reminds me I have a lot of sugary snacks to eat right now...
00:58 cdickinphone That's what happens before i descend into zombiedom
00:56 dcook I don't know why, but this just went through my head: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrwOxpac0XY
00:49 cdickinphone Thankfully, that's not why i missed my 12pn lecture
00:48 cdickinphone By definition, no, by feeling, yeah
00:48 Francesca tell me are you still a sleep deprived zombie?
00:48 cdickinphone Hiya Francesca
00:47 wahanui cdickinphone is also a sleep deprived zombie
00:47 Francesca hey cdickinphone
00:17 rangi oh yeah im not planning to go out wandering around by myself
00:16 wizzyrea_ haha
00:16 wahanui mmm meat
00:16 dcook Meeting time
00:16 dcook Yeah, there are a few places I might be reluctant to travel to
00:16 dcook hehe
00:15 rangi https://twitter.com/esilibrary/status/628579060482846720
00:11 eythian something something hundreds kidnapped something something ;)
00:10 rangi [off] so yeah the 7 people in nigeria who died of ebola outbreak ... not even the same magnitude :)
00:09 wizzyrea_ that is clearly an oversight
00:09 wizzyrea_ lol no I don't think so
00:08 rangi did we have any nine inch nails at whisky? I think don covered every other band from that era
00:08 wizzyrea_ [off] also there has been a mass shooting every day this year (defined as 4 or more people being shot - not killed) in the US
00:08 dcook Usually when I think of Trent Reznor, this is what I think of though :p
00:08 rangi heh
00:08 dcook I forgot about that video!
00:08 dcook Bahaha
00:07 dcook My wife bought it for my birthday back in June but I've been too sick to enjoy it, so I'm saving it for when I can smell and taste again..
00:07 wizzyrea_ hee
00:07 eythian > Uggh I hate that. You'll just be out buying a newspaper and Trent Reznor starts chasing you around. <-- t/hee
00:07 dcook What do I have at home at the moment...
00:07 * Francesca is very confused
00:07 dcook eythian: Mmmm beer
00:07 rangi [off] its pretty mental
00:07 wizzyrea_ [off] which made me think of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPVrFIP0CMs
00:06 rangi [off] on course to have more than 1150 this year
00:06 dcook [off] I thought I saw something like that..
00:06 rangi [off] 118 in july
00:06 eythian dcook: from another channel: <eythian> http://www.regionalwines.co.nz/gift.aspx/big-and-ballsy-beer-pack <-- wizzyrea_ should get the first one of these
00:05 dcook [off] That's interesting!
00:05 Francesca hi rangi
00:04 rangi [off] thats what i was telling people who were all 'Nigeria? isn't that dangerous' i was all well statistically im more likely to be shot by a cop in the USA when i visit the inlaws the month before than anything happen to me in nigeria
00:04 dcook [off] Oh?
00:04 wizzyrea_ [off] hm, this is a recurring theme today.
00:03 dcook [off] Actually, scratch that too. Oh the stories I have...
00:03 dcook [off] Unless you're white and male. Then you might be OK.
00:02 dcook [off] Yeah, that's pretty much true
00:02 rangi [off] i think the real note is under no circumstances ever interact with law enforcement anywhere in north america
00:00 dcook [off] Note to self: don't ride a bike in Vancouver... http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/ismail-bhabha-vancouver-police-officer-found-guilty-of-assaulting-cyclist-1.3179398