Time Nick Message
23:51 eythian gar
23:51 gmcharlt http://koha-community.org/koha-3-18-5-1-released/
22:13 tcohen hi cait
22:12 wahanui goodnight cait. You'll be back.
22:12 cait night all!
22:11 wizzyrea hehe, there are myriad ways of screwing a git repo. I know, I've done them all.
22:11 KotH pfuuset guet! :)
22:11 KotH good night everyone
22:11 KotH anyways.. time to sleep
22:08 KotH i dont remember how many times i had to fix the repo, because cvs messed up the locking
22:08 KotH now think about a project, that was a fraction of the size of koha in number of loc, 20-30 active developers, and a couple of dozen commits a day...
22:07 cait yeah that doesn't sound very inviting
22:07 KotH and having used cvs/svn for so long... git still takes a lot to get used to
22:06 KotH subversion was god send back in those days
22:06 KotH cvs was a pain.. lots of ways to screw up royaly...and f** up the repo
22:06 KotH dont worry, you didnt miss much
22:05 cait i missed out on the cvs days - so only know git :)
22:05 KotH i'm glad those days are over ^^'
22:05 KotH my first patches were done using cvs :)
22:05 cait :)
22:04 cait that would explain that heh
22:04 cait aaah
22:04 KotH it's not my first patch ;)
22:04 cait you were quick :)
22:04 KotH still takes me a while to wrangle with git.. i'm still not used to it ^^'
22:03 cait cool, looking good :)
22:03 KotH cait: done
22:01 cait patch files can be created with git format-patch HEAD^ or similar - there is also git bz - but bit more work to set up
22:00 cait a patch should include the bug number in the subject line - and a short description, you basically already have those things on the bug
21:58 cait so you'd push it one step further
21:58 cait and then the bug status would be set to 'needs signoff' so the testers can go and test it
21:57 KotH been a long day.. with too much math
21:57 cait our process is that we attach a patch file to the bug report
21:57 KotH sorry
21:57 KotH ah.. i get what you mean
21:57 cait on your local repo you can do whatever you want :)
21:57 KotH do i have commit rights?
21:57 cait did you commit your change?
21:57 KotH yes
21:57 cait i got you already have the repository?
21:56 cait yep - but not with a patch file with your name in it :)
21:56 KotH any other place i should put it?
21:56 KotH cait: i just entered it into bugzilla
21:56 KotH cait: submit?
21:56 cait KotH: looks like you already got the solution - would you like to submit the patch yourself?
21:52 KotH ok.. bug submitted, have fun patching ;)
21:51 KotH 1.5G... that's some repo!
21:35 wizzyrea gnite
21:30 andreashm alright, off to bed. bye everyone!
21:30 andreashm wizzyrea: I'll keep that in mind for next time!
21:28 cait wizzyrea++ community_mind++
21:28 cait :)
21:27 wizzyrea always always.
21:27 wizzyrea oh yeah, always a good idea to clear the cache after an upgrade.
21:26 andreashm yup, I usually use chrome
21:26 wizzyrea woohoo!
21:26 andreashm thanks wizzyrea! clearing the cache worked.
21:24 wizzyrea you usually use chrome and not firefox?
21:22 andreashm ok, testing that
21:21 wizzyrea it might be you have old JS
21:21 wizzyrea if you just upgraded.
21:21 wizzyrea andreashm: clear the cache
21:20 cait andreashm: hm maybe check if one of the filters got stuck? might be set to a patron category you don#t have or similar
21:20 andreashm wizzyrea: in firefox it works. in chrome, not so much.
21:20 KotH i'm already at 62%.. i can wait those minutes
21:19 wizzyrea always have to look it up.
21:19 wizzyrea you can do a shallow fetch, sometimes that helps. I can't remember the syntax for it off the top of my head though.
21:18 wizzyrea heh
21:18 KotH wizzyrea: definitly... i havent waited this long since i checked out the linux kernel :)
21:18 wizzyrea andreashm: does your firefox console tell you anything?
21:18 andreashm weird. upgrade issue, or something we broke ourselves?
21:18 wizzyrea KotH: lots of history.
21:18 andreashm but they are there. using check out (I was attempting to check the autocomplete function) it's no problem.
21:17 andreashm I wondered what happened to all our patrons. doing a patron search gives no hits. the table is empty.
21:16 andreashm humm....
21:16 KotH .o0(cloning koha takes a loooot of time)
21:15 andreashm ouch
21:15 wizzyrea yeah :(
21:14 cait ugh rangi on twitter :(
21:12 wizzyrea specifically the "do some work" section
21:12 wizzyrea ^ have a look at that
21:12 wahanui version control using git is at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Version_Control_Using_Git
21:12 wizzyrea version control using git?
21:11 wahanui well, git is mostly needed when you want to do development, there are packages for debian that can make my life eaiser installing it
21:11 wizzyrea git?
21:11 wahanui well, using git is targeted for people developing, is pretty much similar to using tarball
21:11 wizzyrea using git?
21:11 KotH thanks
21:11 wizzyrea start there. :)
21:11 KotH oki
21:11 wizzyrea at bugs.koha-community.org
21:11 wizzyrea have you created a bug for your issue?
21:11 KotH where do i send my patch?
21:10 wizzyrea 4 letters limits more, 5 more yet, and so on
21:10 wizzyrea example, in the movie library software we use, 3 letters starts getting results, in a contains sort of fashion
21:10 wizzyrea well it obviously will change the list of names compared to what it finds now. I'm trying to think of how other autocomplete type things I've used work
21:09 wizzyrea hm.
21:08 cait andreashm: feel free to add your opinion too :)
21:08 cait morning eythian
21:08 eythian hi
21:08 cait the patch makes it act like the normal search, but i wondered how that will affect the list of names it suggests
21:07 cait wizzyrea: the autocomplete starts reacting on 3 letters - i was wondeirng if it doing a contains search might be helpful or the opposite
21:07 andreashm cait: interesting. I was wondering a couple of days ago why autocomplete for patrons gave totally different result than a regular patron search. now I know. =)
21:07 wahanui i guess something is sketchy
21:07 wizzyrea or something
21:07 wizzyrea is a pop out "search help" that's just, not a modal window but a callout
21:07 wizzyrea What you really want there, cait
21:06 wizzyrea hi magnuse >.>
21:05 andreashm hi magnuse
21:05 andreashm We had noticed that the biblio-number got doubled earlier today, so we were on the right track. But updating and getting that notice probably saved me a couple of hours of work.
21:05 * magnuse waves
21:03 cait there
21:03 cait i am looking for opinions here
21:03 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13822 minor, P5 - low, ---, kyle, In Discussion , Patron autocomplete search is severly limited
21:03 cait hm wizzyreacould you take a look at bug 13822?
21:02 cait i totally understand that :)
21:02 andreashm cait: I hope your right. We'll see if anything else breaks. =) But I'm happy to have figured it out after tinkering with it for a week.
21:01 cait andreashm: it should work without the mapping - but the feature is optional anyway
21:00 KotH what i dont get is, that the init script looks ok
21:00 wizzyrea coolio
21:00 KotH but i have a script that cleans up /tmp once a week. so the pid file should not be there
21:00 wizzyrea heh
21:00 KotH none :)
21:00 andreashm cait: hopefully, there was no need for that mapping... and that we just did it because we though it was needed.
21:00 wizzyrea besides "the pid file ended up in /tmp
21:00 wizzyrea what's the problem you are experiencing?
20:59 KotH Version: 3.18.05
20:59 KotH dpkg -s koha-common|grep Version
20:59 KotH deb http://debian.koha-community.org/koha squeeze main
20:59 KotH wizzyrea: debian package
20:59 wizzyrea KotH: how did you install koha
20:59 andreashm hi wizzyrea
20:58 andreashm why is it even possible to mapp it to marc, one wonders? =)
20:58 KotH can someone give me a hand, i'm trying to figure out where the pid file for koha is generated, but cannot find it. the reason why i'm looking for it is, because it ended up in /tmp/ instead of in /var/run/koha
20:58 cait not quite behaving like the rest
20:57 cait it's a weird one that column
20:57 wizzyrea ^
20:57 cait maybe you thought something was missing :)
20:57 andreashm now we just need to figure out why we did that in the first place (I have no idea)
20:57 cait hard one to figure that out
20:57 cait ooh
20:57 andreashm I took it away.... now it works.
20:57 andreashm item perm location was mapped to 952 k
20:56 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7817 critical, P1 - high, ---, olli-antti.kivilahti, Pushed to Master , Items Permanent location (shelving location) is set to NULL when item is edited
20:56 andreashm bug 7817
20:56 cait what was it?
20:56 cait ah cool
20:56 andreashm upgrading helped us figure out what was wrong with our holds though, so that was good.
20:55 cait yep, should be ok :)
20:55 andreashm cait: ok. noothing worrying for us then as we don't use that. good. =)
20:55 wizzyrea hi
20:55 cait the problem is when cancelling an order and entering the reason - fixes are under way
20:54 cait we missed a dependency on a database update
20:54 cait we will fix it
20:52 andreashm saw some info in the log about some issue with updating to 3.18.5. What was that? (Of course, we updated to that today)
20:52 andreashm hi cait
20:51 cait hi andreashm
20:51 andreashm hey
20:51 wahanui niihau, nengard
20:51 nengard hello
20:50 KotH good evening!
20:48 wizzyrea \o/
20:47 andreashm whoop. I managed to fix the problems with holds that we had.
20:45 andreashm hi all
19:25 huginn cait: The operation succeeded.
19:25 cait @later tell rangi - works alright afaikt - kohaversion needs to be updated still
19:24 cait it's looking good
19:22 cait i think i need to update kohaversion?
19:22 cait hm
19:19 cait ok, dumped the databae - runnign the update to 3.18.5 now
19:19 rangi no have to take kids to school now
19:15 cait ah not at work yet?
19:14 rangi well just email if it works and when i get a chance ill have to roll another release
19:14 rangi k
19:13 cait that's why i am cancelling things before runnign the update
19:13 cait the code is a number, the description is your text
19:12 cait it numbers
19:12 rangi that will still break
19:12 rangi what if you entered something longer than 32 chars before
19:12 cait into authorised values
19:12 cait but it also converts stuff you entered before
19:12 cait it adds sample data
19:12 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5511 normal, P5 - low, ---, amitddng135, Pushed to Stable , Check for Change in Remote IP address for Session Security. Disable when remote ip address changes frequently.
19:12 cait looks like we miss a line break :) Upgrade to 3.18.03.002 done (Bug 5511 - SessionRestrictionByIP)Upgrade to 3.18.04.000 done (3.18.4 release)
19:12 rangi it populates the authorised values
19:12 rangi the upgrade to 3.18.5 adds the data
19:11 rangi im not sure you have to have any data
19:11 cait that will take a moment
19:11 cait oh the old databaesis 3.13.00.22
19:11 cait then updating to the new updated branch should put the data in the right state... hopefully
19:10 cait creating the data on a 3.18.4
19:10 rangi cool
19:10 cait then updateing
19:10 cait just creating data
19:10 rangi because the column width is still wrong
19:10 cait i won't
19:10 rangi it cant work
19:10 rangi its not worth testing that patch by itself
19:10 rangi the brnach should fix everything
19:09 cait just need to run the update now and cancel a few things
19:09 cait i found an old dbwith acq data
19:09 cait but give me a few more mins?
19:09 cait ah yeah i can test that
19:09 rangi http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/3.18.x
19:09 rangi before i roll a new release
19:09 rangi fixes are pushed, i need someone else to test it
19:08 cait rangi: hm?
19:08 rangi can you try branch 3.18.5 now
19:05 cait that will put us in the state it should have been after the update
19:05 cait and then change the authorised value category to the right value
19:05 cait what we can do is push the patch to change the column change now after
19:04 rangi wont get the column size change
19:04 rangi else anyone who has already upgraded
19:04 cait i talked to Joubu
19:04 cait of course
19:04 rangi be reordered
19:04 rangi and it cant
19:03 cait will take a bit becuase of creating the acq data
19:03 cait i am going to test the follow up... creating a 3.18.4 database now
19:01 cait no data is lost - but it's messy I agree :(
18:59 rangi will have to do a new release, but everyone who has downloaded the old one is already messed up
18:58 rangi its been released
18:58 rangi its too late to include it
18:54 * AndroUser tries an irc app on the phone
18:40 gaetan_B bye
18:40 * magnuse wonders if there is a us holiday
16:51 Joubu have a good day/night #koha
16:45 wahanui apparently is vitally important to librarians
16:45 cait apparently
16:44 drojf oh. again? :)
16:44 cait drojf: today is the day of strange things
16:42 drojf for the record, you cannot upgrade koha if you got an instance that is only installed half way (not running the web installer part). probably not a common thing to happen, i tried it by accident ;)
16:34 drojf oh. looks like i never fully installed koha on that vm so it's probably myfault that everything exploded
16:31 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13380 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Stable , Auto fill order cancellation reasons from authorised values
16:31 cait bug 13380
16:31 cait i'd wait
16:31 cait but yes
16:31 cait drojf: we made our own
16:29 drojf anyone tried an upgrade to 3.18.5 with packages?
15:46 bag morning
15:46 andreashm hi all
15:26 cait ColinC++
15:18 fridolin hie cait
15:16 cait hi fridolin
15:15 fridolin hie
15:12 cait because it might try to turn the authorised value codes into new authorised value entries
15:12 cait Joubu: the other thing is that we probably shoudl add a condition in master so that the database update is not run twice
15:10 huginn cait: The operation succeeded.
15:10 cait @later tell rangi - sorry, but we got a bigger problem with the database update on bug 13380
15:09 cait Joubu: i can fix our databases, but i think we need a full blown patch now - fixing the wrong codes as well
14:55 cait and we need a fix
14:55 cait too late :( 3.18.5 is releeased
14:51 Joubu cait: you should ping rangi to include it asap
14:51 Joubu that's was linked
14:51 Joubu cait: ha yes!
14:49 cait now my updated database has ORDER_CANCELLATI
14:49 cait the field is too short - we missed the dependency to change the code to varchar(16)
14:49 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13380 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Stable , Auto fill order cancellation reasons from authorised values
14:49 cait bug 13380
14:47 cait Joubu: jut found a problem in 3.18.5 with the backport for the order cancellation reasons
14:08 khall Joubu: I was thinking a subroutine with a parameter to control that, thus avoiding YAS
14:07 Joubu khall: actually if you absolutely need this behavior, the best would be a pref to set "contains" or "start_with" as a default
14:02 khall agreed, I see no reason to not move forward with your work. My issues can be dealt with later
14:01 Joubu At the moment, we can use it as it, but it would be nice to refactor the code a bit (to move it into Koha::Borrowers)
14:00 Joubu khall: the one to use is the one in C4::Utils::Datatables::Members
14:00 Joubu khall: I am removing the Search subroutine calls ... :)
14:00 khall I would like to see an actual patron search subroutine in Koha still, to avoid bespoke searching code
14:00 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13892 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , SQLHelper replacement - C4::Members::Search - ysearch.pl
14:00 Joubu khall: I submited bug 13892 this morning, to use Koha::Borrowers from ysearch
13:58 cait we had another place, i think in patron list, where a library says she can't get to the right patron, because too many with the same name
13:57 cait sorry for that - just not sure a contans search is a good fit there
13:57 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13822 minor, P5 - low, ---, kyle, In Discussion , Patron autocomplete search is severly limited
13:57 khall Joubu: bug 13822 uses Search() but it's now in discussion
13:49 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13894 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , SQLHelper replacement - C4::Members::Search - reserve.pl
13:49 Joubu I really would like to get opinions on the patch I have just submited on bug 13894. Since the UI is affected, it could be great to get feedback
13:47 marcelr ok; but i am not fully convinced yet :)
13:45 khall so the extension distinguishes it from a perl script
13:45 khall marcelr: because it's just a snippet of perl code and not a fully executable perl file
13:45 drojf 999c i mean
13:45 marcelr ?
13:45 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13893 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Needs Signoff , Add ability to execute perl scripts in atomicupdates
13:45 marcelr khall: bug 13893 why do you not stick to the .pl extension
13:45 drojf i don't see problems with a copy. but i would not mess with koha internally where to look for the biblionumber and just leave it in 999x or what it is
13:45 gaetan_B i *guess* it should work
13:44 gaetan_B i could map biblio.biblionumber to 999c and biblioitems.biblioitemnumber to 001
13:44 cait just not ure how you would do that - have both
13:44 cait doubles between 999 and 001 would be less problematic i think
13:43 cait hm no
13:43 gaetan_B so maybe i'll move it
13:43 gaetan_B at first i wanted to copy it, but we would have doubles which might be really problematic
13:43 cait gaetan_B: do you want to move or copy it?
13:42 cait as i understood he wants to change where koha stores the biblionumber... not copy it
13:42 gaetan_B threre is already an index on 001 : control-number
13:41 drojf 001
13:41 drojf they want the index changed? i thought you'd just use the regular and copy the biblio number to 01
13:40 cait unless we'd change it for all our libraries
13:40 cait I think we'd see it as too expensive
13:40 gaetan_B it seems i will have to do it as they really want to have it this way for some reason
13:39 cait i think i wouldn't change it out of fear for side effects - and gladly our libraries haven't asked for something like that
13:39 cait 001 is only unique per definition in combination with 003
13:38 cait if you use 035 it should be (MARCOrgCode)Number
13:38 cait if you change the index
13:38 cait because koha won't deal well with that
13:38 cait gaetan_B: i think the important bit is to prevent double ups
13:36 drojf ok that would be a similar workflow then
13:35 gaetan_B i don't know how other ils do it, there is no specification for this actually
13:35 gaetan_B for the record, the french unimarc academic union catalog (sudoc), does provide its unique identifier in the 001 field, but we move it to a custom field on import to have the koha biblionumber in 001
13:34 gaetan_B that's probably what i'll end up doing
13:33 drojf i think that's possible, as koha does not care about the combination of 003+001 as it probably should. there is also the option to have your local number in 001 and put the 001 from the union catalogue (or somewhere else) into an alternative field (like 035)
13:30 gaetan_B so you could find yourself with two identical 001 fields in your catalogue, provided the records come from two different sources?
13:28 Viktor We stick the internal id of the Libris och Burk databases in 001 and if I'm not way off we have the librarys id in 003
13:28 Viktor I think we have the same use of 001 and 003 as drojf gives as example in most cases.
13:26 drojf s/of/or
13:26 drojf (or if at all)
13:26 drojf possibly, i don't know how others use it. maybe magnuse of Viktor could tell us how it is used in scandinavia
13:25 gaetan_B i feel like this way of using the 001 might be specific to the german union catalogues, cait was mentioning this too
13:25 drojf but this way, exporting data and importing it somewhere else, linking with 773 and 001 would still have worked. with biblionumber, not necessarily
13:24 drojf i think in the library i worked at, we just made them up. we were not part of a union catalogue and a special library, but needed it for 773
13:24 misilot is there a list of the variables available for notices in the manual somewhere? I looked buy cannot find them.
13:23 drojf in germany, union catalogues use it. you got a number of the union catalogue there and your own library code in 003 and the combination of 003 and 001 is what makes it unique
13:22 gaetan_B in unimarc we have the biblionumber in 001, so i haven't had to deal with this case so much
13:22 gaetan_B drojf: are there really libraries manually assigning this number ?
13:21 drojf gaetan_B: the biblionumber is the identifier in the system. i would not regard it as an identifier by the library. they do not assign it, the system does. so i wonder what you would want to do with it on export level. you can't just reuse it when you import somewhere else because it may already be used there. they should assign their own (really unique across systems) identifier if they need one
13:17 gaetan_B if your library wants to be able to export its records, and have its own identifier there, you don't have the choice then i guess ?
13:16 gaetan_B cait: i have more questions regarding having the biblionumber in 001
12:17 andreashm kivilahtio: but likely hat we will make an rfc regarding holds based on locations.
12:14 andreashm kivilahtio: thanks, will take a look at that.
12:14 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13068 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, paul.poulain, Passed QA , New feature for DB update and sandbox
12:14 kivilahtio andreashm: yes. I think that was it.
12:14 magnuse bug 13068
12:13 kivilahtio andreashm: I can't really remember, i think the fastblock was the one
12:13 andreashm kivilahtio: it's the second patch (fastloan etc.) that has the holds block, right? Or is there stuff in all three that need to be reviewed?
11:54 kivilahtio andreashm: I hope you can connect the missing pieces
11:53 andreashm kivilahtio: thanks
11:51 oliver_ thx again, laters
11:51 cait i certainly fix a lot of those - but there are other things that make me want to complain mroe ;)
11:51 kivilahtio cait: I certainly hope so
11:51 cait but i think there might be a change soon about the database updates
11:51 kivilahtio I am more annoyed by the conflicts when I am moving patches between multiple environments
11:50 kivilahtio I understand
11:50 kivilahtio we miss a lot of things :)
11:50 cait which is annoying me more than fixing the conflict
11:50 kivilahtio cait: it is entirely possible
11:50 cait and i need to touch them now and move them for testing
11:50 kivilahtio now the patches simply apply more easily and you don't need to do so much maunal work
11:50 cait the problem is, you might miss to move it down
11:49 kivilahtio cait: you can easily move it down when you are pushing, You are bound to get a ton of these updatedatebase.pl -conflicts anyway when pushing
11:49 kivilahtio cait: sounds good :)
11:48 cait kivilahtio: I don't thik that works that you refuse to move it down ;) but we can just use kyle's patch hopefully
11:26 khall cait: I've fixed up 13790 with all we've learned. I believe this to be the One True issues_id patch! ; )
11:21 kivilahtio andreashm: even better use our solution to make a better solution with a GUI :)
11:20 kivilahtio andreashm: I would really appreciate if you could generalize our solution with a GUI. That would be super awesome!
11:20 kivilahtio andreashm: some examples on how to stab Koha in the guts :)
11:20 kivilahtio andreashm: https://oiva.vaarakirjastot.fi/patches.tar.gz
11:16 andreashm ok, off for lunch. bbl
11:15 andreashm thanks!
11:15 kivilahtio ill dig the code for you
11:15 kivilahtio for 3.16, we prevent some location from being held
11:14 andreashm kivilahtio: ah, yeah. it adds a column to reserves
11:14 kivilahtio andreashm: We have an in-house hack to prevent Holds from working for certain shelving locations
11:14 kivilahtio andreashm: atleast hte GUI modifications for circulationrules you can copy from there
11:14 kivilahtio andreashm: I remeber it had something similar to waht you need
11:13 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8367 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, olli-antti.kivilahti, Patch doesn't apply , How long is a hold waiting for pickup at a more granular level
11:13 andreashm kivilahtio: isn't bug 8367 about holds waiting for pick-up, not on how holds are handled? to you mean something can be based on that patch? Otherwise I don't see how it will fit.
11:12 khall sounds like a plan!
11:12 kivilahtio khall: I'' let you deal with it :)
11:12 kivilahtio khall: ok
11:11 khall cait: I'll work on bug 13790
11:11 kivilahtio cait: I won't move the updatedatabsae down because it would conflict SOOOO badly with all the developments I have in our productiion
11:10 kivilahtio cait: what do you want for 13743? No AUTOINCREMENT for oldissues?
11:10 cait lunch time, brb
11:09 cait t
11:09 cait it got a bit messy, would be happy if we could resolve tha
11:09 cait and kivilahtio's patch is a duplicate actually - 13743 and 13790
11:08 cait khall: i like to see it on a separte bug, but maybe we can use what we learned from 9303
11:08 khall cait: I see that. I'll see what I can do!
11:08 cait i left notes
11:07 cait but there was still a problem with it
11:07 cait i thin bug 9303 had the most testing
11:07 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13743 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Failed QA , Primary key for issues-table
11:07 cait and bug 13743
11:07 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9303 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Failed QA , relative's checkouts in the opac
11:07 cait bug 9303
11:07 andreashm kivilahtio: looking at it now
11:07 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9011 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, BLOCKED , Add the ability to store the last patron to return an item
11:07 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13790 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Needs Signoff , Add unique id issue_id to issues and oldissues tables
11:07 cait khall, kivilahtio read your bug mais :) - there are bug 13790, bug 9011
11:06 huginn 04Bug 13790: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Needs Signoff , Add unique id issue_id to issues and oldissues tables
11:06 khall cait: http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13790
11:06 kivilahtio and please rebase and sign it off :)
11:06 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8367 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, olli-antti.kivilahti, Patch doesn't apply , How long is a hold waiting for pickup at a more granular level
11:06 kivilahtio andreashm: check Bug 8367, it is quite similar to what you want
11:06 cait i think it might have been the last item checked out one - but not sure
11:06 cait i linked them together - but i think ther eis one missing
11:05 kivilahtio what was the bug number?
11:05 kivilahtio I think I submitted the issue_id
11:05 kivilahtio but I have time to make something regarding Items prolly
11:05 khall cait: do you know which bugs use issue_id? I know that accounts rewrite does
11:05 kivilahtio we actually need parallel holds for Items and Biblios
11:05 kivilahtio andreashm: it is part of the serials improvement I am abou to do based on the new REST API this summer
11:05 andreashm kivilahtio: your going to do that?
11:05 cait btw kivilahtio and khall - please come up with a working patch for issue_id - please? :)
11:04 huginn 04Bug 8367: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, olli-antti.kivilahti, Patch doesn't apply , How long is a hold waiting for pickup at a more granular level
11:04 kivilahtio http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8367
11:04 kivilahtio cait: tell me about it, I need to soon write a parallel holds feature
11:04 andreashm cait: yes, it would have to be another parameter. that could work together with itemtype for instance
11:03 cait holds are... beasts
11:03 cait kivilahtio: anything is possible, but i think it's nothing you can do quick and dirty :)
11:03 kivilahtio it had to do with defining the hold waiting for pickup duration in circulationrules.pl
11:03 wahanui it has been said that shelving location is now in italic underneath the library name.
11:03 andreashm khall: yes, shelving location.
11:03 andreashm ashimema: oh, really? sounds interesting!
11:03 kivilahtio there is a bug from Joubu and me where a similar issue is already dealt with
11:02 cait kivilahtio: i think the gui is not the problem :)
11:02 khall I see no reason why we couldn't add shelving location as an option parameter to the circulation rules
11:02 kivilahtio and then tweak the 3-4 places in code where that value is accessed
11:02 cait i think either or.. probably won't work - there is also the problem of the itemtype being on record and item level (intheory) and location only item level
11:02 ashimema one of my collegues was going to open a bug on it
11:02 ashimema andreashm, that's another one I'd love to see..
11:02 kivilahtio cait: big rewrite? just add the location column to the circulationrules.pl ?
11:02 khall andreashm: when you mean location, do you mean shelving location?
11:02 cait andreashm: i think that woudl be a big rewrite - and then probably you'd still also need the itemtypes
11:02 kivilahtio andreashm: we need that as well. To allow/block holds and checkouts per location
11:01 khall that's the idea
11:01 andreashm another thing I'd like to throw out there is to hear opinions on whether adding the possibility of having holds based on location, rather than branch or itemtype, would be a ggod idea? (yes I've talked about this before, sorry if you've heard it before)
11:01 kivilahtio khall: on the hindsight I am not so sure if it is such a good idea :) What if we want to change DBIx to something else?
11:00 khall kivilahtio: subclassing resultset was an option that was proposed and passed on.
10:59 kivilahtio khall: Adding the count() to Koha::Object is not that hard :) Maybe this way everybody doesn't have to know DBIx to deal with Koha::Objects?
10:55 kivilahtio khall: Having read the DBIx manual (finally) I can't but wonder why the Koha::Object is not a subclass of DBIx::ResultSet? We could directly access all the DBIx methods, like count, but now we have to create wrapper functions for the DBIx-operations. That is code duplication?
10:55 andreashm yeah, starting out with an rfc would probably be the best way forward. get a lot of input, on how to do it.
10:51 andreashm thanks joubu!
10:49 Joubu andreashm: give me your email address please (see pm)
10:49 Joubu +is
10:48 Joubu andreashm: it really far, I am sorry. I should have head back in the code to refresh my thought
10:48 cait because you still need to send emails etc. just like with holds
10:48 cait but reuse lots of the logic
10:48 cait we used to have something like that
10:48 ashimema indeed
10:48 cait again
10:48 cait i think maybe have a reserve type
10:48 ashimema shuold start out small, and only grow as required ;)
10:48 ashimema both had their own issues.. So I think we aught to do some stand alone logic specially for it..
10:47 cait andreashm: hm maybe this would be worth writing up an RFC - i think more libraries with closed stacks than one might think
10:47 ashimema I've seen hacks based on the basket logic.. I've seen hacks based on the reserves lgic..
10:47 oliver_ cait: so, as usual, assess, think, plan, act
10:47 andreashm magnuse: thanks, interesting!
10:46 andreashm joubu: better to make a new, seperate logic for closed stacks then? or what was the problem with basing it on reserve logic (which to me seems a pretty straight-forward way of doing it)
10:46 oliver_ cait: and you always ask yourself: that problem should already be solved by now, shouldn't it...
10:45 wahanui http://xkcd.com/1172/
10:45 huginn magnuse: Quote #123: "rangi: #thingsihavelearnt if there is a mad scheme a library somewhere will be doing it ... except madder" (added by wizzyrea at 09:20 PM, March 30, 2011)
10:45 magnuse @quote get 123
10:45 cait oliver_: we all are in some way or the other - i am sking myself that quite often too
10:45 oliver_ cait: still waiting for the source data. will reassess the situation then...
10:45 magnuse andreashm: i am digging around in the NCIPServer developed by rangi and others. starting to get a grip on it. i will have to add some services + create an ncip client as well. so... "just getting started" is probably an accurate status
10:44 drojf avantgarde!
10:44 oliver_ cait: why am I always the first?! ;-)
10:42 andreashm thanks joubu, very interesting!
10:41 Joubu but it's far in my memory...
10:41 Joubu but if I remember correctly, the "main idea" was stupid... We should not have based the logic on the reserve logic
10:40 Joubu you should see the main idea in this commit
10:40 cait oliver_: hm we never migrated directly from that :(
10:40 andreashm I can probably manage the french... with google's help. =)
10:39 Joubu https://git.biblibre.com/biblibre/koha_biblibre/commit/7cfac0b37e854242466cb9fda77541ab3754be98
10:39 andreashm specs would be interesting!
10:39 Joubu andreashm: Otherwise the first commit is 7cfac0b37
10:39 Joubu andreashm: I think there is a sort of spec (but in French...) somewhere in our wiki (non public).
10:37 andreashm joubu: there was a lot of stuff in that list. any tips on where to look?
10:34 andreashm Joubu: yeah, Gaetan told me that there had been some work from BibLibre previously. Thanks, I'll take a look!
10:34 Joubu and 2/ It seems quite buggy...
10:34 Joubu BUT 1/ It's based on the 3.2 BibLibre fork (so quite old...)
10:33 Joubu Note that I developed a closed stack feature, see https://git.biblibre.com/biblibre/koha_biblibre/commits/paris8/ft/MT10264
10:33 oliver_ drojf: LIBERO
10:33 ashimema :)
10:32 andreashm yup, that's the second step. just wanted to check if someone knew, straight up. =)
10:32 ashimema you can do that for free and it woudl certainly progress things a bit and give a better idea of how much work there is invovled ;)
10:32 ashimema first thing to do would be to write up an RFC for the wiki.. so we have a spec to work from ;)
10:31 ashimema sorry I couldn't be more usefull.
10:31 andreashm ashimema: alright, thanks.
10:31 ashimema no idea.. it's been a long time since I looked at it i'm afraid andreashm
10:30 andreashm there might be funds available here. =)
10:30 ashimema does zebra facets work with query parser enabled?
10:30 andreashm would it be major work, or something manageable?
10:30 ashimema it's on my 'nice to have' list for one day I have a spare moment
10:30 ashimema but none willing to sponsor it ;)
10:29 ashimema we've had interest in closed stacks for ages..
10:29 atheia hi andreashm
10:28 andreashm hey ahteia
10:28 andreashm would there be interest in the community to build functionality for closed stacks, you guys think?
10:28 atheia ILL — indeed :-)
10:27 andreashm ashimema: sounds great.
10:27 ashimema ncip.. pass
10:27 ashimema ;)
10:27 ashimema it's moving forward fast..
10:27 andreashm magnuse: how's the ncip work going then? =)
10:27 cait css--
10:26 ashimema andreashm: atheia is the man to ask ILL wise ;)
10:26 cait they are exporting internal format > mab internal format > marc i think - we do the same here for our union catalog
10:25 cait oliver_: yes there is... but they did not migrate directly - becuase they are using a pica system with its own internal format
10:24 andreashm magnuse: how's the ill work going?
10:21 drojf oliver_: what system is your data coming from?
10:20 oliver_ drojf: agreed, but it should help mapping the fields that I'm interested in. I'm not in search of a 120% solution.
10:18 magnuse tjänare andreashm
10:17 drojf oliver_: yes there is a lot of text. but implementing that from scratch might take a while ;)
10:17 drojf hi andreashm
10:15 andreashm hi #koha
10:03 oliver_ and, FYI, the german national library migrated from MAB -> MARC so there's at least some reference mapping available..
10:01 oliver_ exactly
10:01 magnuse since someone created Catmandu::Importer::MAB2 it seems kind of likely they converted it to marc at some poeint
10:01 oliver_ yep, sounds like a plan
10:01 magnuse you caould ask on the catmandu/librecat mailinglist if anyone has experiences with MAB2 -> MARC that they can share
10:00 oliver_ ok, I'll read up on catmandu
10:00 magnuse but you can run a series of fixes too
10:00 magnuse oliver_: i have no idea :-)
09:56 * cait tries to remember what she has been taught at the catmandu workshop and fails
09:55 cait hm i think you can't directly convert... need to store it in between i think
09:51 oliver_ I mean, how's the mapping done since it's not 1:1
09:51 oliver_ magnuse: can't be that easy "$ catmandu convert MAB2 to MARC < records.mab"
09:45 nlegrand ^^
09:43 magnuse yay for easy solutions :-)
09:42 nlegrand I guess this was my problem ^^, thank you cait!
09:42 nlegrand :)
09:40 cait hm do you have an FA framework?
09:39 nlegrand I wanted to try fast add cataloguing, but it doesn't appear in my circulation page (3.18/master) thought I have super librarian powers. Do I miss something?
09:38 magnuse :-)
09:38 nlegrand god morgen magnuse!
09:38 magnuse bonjour nlegrand
09:37 nlegrand hey #koha!
09:37 magnuse $ catmandu convert MAB2 to MARC < records.mab
09:37 oliver_ hehe, will do
09:37 magnuse http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaUsers/Europe
09:37 drojf and publish your mab to marc21 conversion tool chain :)
09:36 cait ... and don't miss to add your library to the wiki later :) we are always curiosu about new libraries :)
09:36 magnuse oliver_: feel free to join the community any time you like ;-)
09:35 oliver_ guys, you've been really helpful and I'd like to say that Koha is a really nice software from what I can tell so far. I really appreciate the way the project is run, in particular from a software engineering point of view. keep up the great work!
09:35 drojf lol i remember those
09:34 cait especially the sloths :)
09:33 oliver_ who doesn't :-)
09:32 * cait likes the zoo
09:32 oliver_ ah, beautiful area and worth a visit
09:32 drojf cait: no, it's just that it shows in my client when people join
09:32 cait ok, can't compete there i see :)
09:32 * drojf grew up in landkreis hannover ^^
09:32 cait drojf: that only reveals you were curious too :)
09:31 cait heh
09:31 oliver_ obviously ;-)
09:31 drojf hannover :P
09:31 cait oliver_: where ar you from? :)
09:31 oliver_ thanks guys, I'll have a look
09:31 oliver_ great!
09:30 magnuse https://metacpan.org/pod/Catmandu::Exporter::MARC
09:30 drojf still have not played with it
09:30 magnuse Catmandu is a toolset desgined to do import, massaging and export of data
09:30 drojf oh catmandu does everything
09:29 drojf it lives in different places
09:29 magnuse oliver_: take a look at https://metacpan.org/pod/Catmandu::Importer::MAB2
09:29 drojf not sure if that is the latest version
09:29 drojf https://gitorious.org/koha-migration-toolbox/koha-migration-toolbox/source/b8d8f6ae391fefd6bc9a1aa28b146aa472de3431:migration/Generic/csvtomarc.pl
09:29 cait where does it hide?
09:29 oliver_ nice
09:29 drojf csvtomarc.pl
09:29 cait looking for the link - does someone else remember? the tool eythian built?
09:28 cait drojf: will show you in a minute
09:28 cait if you could get it into csv... it might help
09:28 drojf cait: i think i had a short look at it some time ago. what are you trying to do?
09:28 oliver_ any pointer?
09:28 cait there is a generic conversion tool for csv data i think
09:27 oliver_ granted, every conversion is somehow unique but given an input parser, a rule-based mapping/conversion engine and a MARC21 output generator it should be feasible to come up with a generic solution
09:27 cait drojf: have you played witht he bootstrap breakpoints yet?
09:27 drojf maybe ask on the inetbib maling list?
09:26 cait there are also some service providers that do conversions
09:26 cait that would be my guess too
09:25 oliver_ I mean, there must have mean various institutions that switched from MAB(2) to MARC21 but it seems no one ever published their toolchain, probably because everyone just hacked up a one-off script...
09:25 cait have been asked about it often tho
09:24 cait i am sorry, but I haven't seen one so far
09:24 oliver_ hey
09:23 cait hi :)
09:22 drojf i haven't. maybe cait has
09:22 oliver_ unfortunately MAB is mostly used in German language context so the relevant community with experiences should be rather limited :-/
09:22 drojf hi oliver_
09:21 oliver_ has anyone ever come across a tool/script that facilitates MAB -> MARC catalog record conversion?
09:20 oliver_ hi
09:19 atheia quite… I'll poke those things today.
09:18 magnuse also, https://github.com/PTFS-Europe/koha/blob/ill_master/installer/data/mysql/atomicupdate/ill_schema.sql#L23 should probably be VALUES ('21','manage','Able to manage ILL requests');
09:18 magnuse :-)
09:17 atheia Ah — great minds think alike ;-)
09:17 atheia I think that would probably cause an error like that…
09:17 atheia hmm, interesting… Ah, I think I might have "optimized" that column away, without updating the dbix schemas.
09:17 magnuse yup that fixes it
09:16 magnuse ah "ALTER TABLE categories ADD illlimit VARCHAR(60) AFTER issuelimit;" has gone missing
09:13 magnuse but i get the same error
09:13 magnuse then i loaded installer/data/mysql/atomicupdate/ill_schema.sql into the db and tried to add the user again
09:13 magnuse atheia: i dropped and recreated the database, tried to add a user but got "DBIx::Class::ResultSet::find(): Unknown column 'me.illlimit' in 'field list' at /home/magnus/kohaclone/C4/Members.pm line 876"
09:09 ashimema atheia++ magnuse++
09:09 ashimema nice to see a bit of interaction going on in the ILL space now :)
09:06 magnuse cool
09:05 atheia (there will definitely be some conf changes you'll have to carry out in koha-conf.xml)
09:02 * magnuse will take a quick look
09:01 atheia ah, well, thanks :-) hopefully it all still works…
09:01 magnuse ooh, someone has been working hard... :-)
09:01 cait hm can i do that?
09:00 * magnuse does a git pull on the ill_master branch
09:00 cait and i need to move the point a table brekas into a list
09:00 cait or does someone else know... i have a layout problem with german
09:00 * cait needs oleonard
09:00 atheia
09:00 atheia Hei magnuse!
08:59 magnuse hiya atheia!
08:58 cait morning atheia :)
08:58 atheia morning cait
08:51 cait morning ashimema
08:51 magnuse yeah, that is hot!
08:51 magnuse hiya ashimema
08:50 ashimema positively tropical today ;)
08:49 huginn ashimema: The current temperature in Pin Green, Stevenage, United Kingdom is 6.3°C (8:42 AM GMT on March 23, 2015). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 78%. Dew Point: 3.0°C. Windchill: 6.0°C. Pressure: 30.01 in 1016 hPa (Steady).
08:49 ashimema @wunder stevenage, uk
08:49 ashimema morning
08:47 magnuse huh?
08:47 magnuse not really
08:43 * magnuse wonders who will be rm for 3.22
08:39 cait morning #koha
08:26 wahanui hi, gaetan_B
08:26 gaetan_B hello
08:01 alex_a bonjour
07:56 drojf :)
07:52 magnuse northern europe all set and ready to go ;-)
07:48 Viktor Hi drojf and marcelr
07:46 marcelr hi magnuse drojf Viktor
07:46 drojf hi Viktor and marcelr
07:45 magnuse hiya marcelr
07:45 marcelr hi #koha
07:45 Viktor Kia ora Magnuse
07:44 magnuse kia ora Viktor
07:41 huginn drojf: The current temperature in Berlin Tegel, Germany is 3.0°C (8:20 AM CET on March 23, 2015). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 41%. Dew Point: -9.0°C. Windchill: 0.0°C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Falling).
07:41 drojf @wunder berlin, germany
07:40 drojf hei magnuse
07:40 * magnuse notes a tie with ribasushi
07:40 magnuse moin drojf
07:40 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 2.0°C (8:20 AM CET on March 23, 2015). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: 1.0°C. Windchill: -3.0°C. Pressure: 29.24 in 990 hPa (Steady).
07:40 magnuse @wunder boo
07:40 drojf morning #koha
07:39 huginn ribasushi: The current temperature in Maastricht, Germany is 2.0°C (8:25 AM CET on March 23, 2015). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: 0.0°C. Windchill: -1.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady).
07:39 ribasushi @wunder Aachen
07:37 cait bbiab
07:17 huginn cait: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 6.0°C (8:00 AM CET on March 23, 2015). Conditions: Mist. Humidity: 84%. Dew Point: 4.0°C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Rising).
07:17 cait @wunder Konstanz
07:16 magnuse cait++
07:16 magnuse ie--
07:13 cait ie--
07:08 huginn cait: Highest karma: "cait" (199), "gmcharlt" (161), and "tcohen" (151). Lowest karma: "ie" (-19), "-" (-13), and "^" (-12). You (cait) are ranked 1 out of 381.
07:08 cait @karma
07:08 huginn cait: Karma for "acq" has been increased 1 time and decreased 2 times for a total karma of -1.
07:08 cait @karma acq
07:08 wahanui acq is very restrictice
07:08 cait acq?
07:08 * cait balances out the initial typo
07:08 cait acq-- acq--
07:08 cait hm
07:08 cait acq++
06:44 cait thx mveron++
06:24 * cait waves
05:39 * dcook says only realizing that as he was typing out the first statement
05:39 dcook I suppose that might make sense if you're sending a basket to someone other than yourself
05:39 dcook Interesting... apparently when you email a basket the replyto address is set to the address of the user
04:46 eythian It's mostly a high-level look at the design, followed by details on the large chunks of what needs to be done
04:41 dcook Looks good at a glance. Excited to read it later.
04:41 dcook Like many things I suppose
04:40 eythian I probably wouldn't have been able to write much about it if I didn't already know what I was writing about
04:40 dcook Oh man, I do rain on parades..
04:40 dcook hehe
04:40 eythian pfft deadline
04:40 dcook eythian++
04:40 dcook But otherwise:
04:40 dcook I think the deadline was in the past?
04:36 eythian http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/User_talk:Eythian/ES_RFC <-- my draft RFC for elasticsearch work
03:23 dcook Just too many projects to juggle at once. Can't remember the last time I sent in a Koha patch now... :(
03:23 dcook But that's true. I keep meaning to open more bug reports for issues that I'm not ready to upstream, but which might be worth discussion
03:23 dcook [off] I suppose I could've been more specific. It's more about breaking existing designs that rely on established frameworks
03:19 ibeardslee even if your changes need to be developed further to take into account how others may use that feature
03:11 dcook That too
03:09 wizzyrea if appropriate to do so.
03:09 wizzyrea rather, if you find that you need it to be customised, you should contribute back your changes.
03:01 dcook That advice should be added to every open source download :p
03:00 dcook I recall cait once advising me not to customize Koha too much
02:18 rangi [off] as trivial as sending passwords in the clear? on the same subnet as the wifi? i doubt anything is that easy to exploit ;-) but fixing anything security related is definitely a priority
02:17 mtj [off] this one is pretty trivial, conpared to others
02:16 rangi [off] but file it on koha-security anyway :)
02:15 rangi [off] SIP is a security bug
02:15 mtj [off] hmm, i think ive found a little security bug around sip
01:55 rangi nengard++
01:55 rangi hehe
01:39 eythian ibeardslee: it makes it very easy to subscribe to things
01:39 ibeardslee oh
01:38 mtj thanks for the tt-rss tip eythian
01:38 eythian ibeardslee: note that it has an option to add tt-rss as a feed reader in firefox
01:37 mtj now i can install all those apps i was curious about
01:37 mtj i recetly worked out how to root my android
01:34 dcook Soup time!
01:00 gmcharlt er, tt-rss
01:00 * gmcharlt can echo eythian's endorsement of tt-ssh
01:00 eythian you can define it in there
01:00 eythian .ssh/config
01:00 gmcharlt and boy howdy is it annoying that the git client doesn't let one explicitly specify which ssh key to use
00:59 gmcharlt ok, mirroring via post-receive hook in place
00:58 eythian fairly straightforward, yeah
00:58 ibeardslee was it easy to setup?
00:57 eythian reminds me, tt-rss is a pretty nice RSS reader with a GPLed android reader (though it has a payfor unlocker too, which is fine.) If anyone wants an account on mine, let me know, on the proviso that it's $0 so you may end up getting what you pay for :) (that said, I've been using it for a week or so now, don't expect that to change.)
00:55 mtj they have recently added an 'export bug history' feature... thats handy
00:53 rangi that and the sexism are my issues
00:50 eythian them
00:50 eythian that's my unhappiness with the,
00:50 eythian send them a patch ... oh wait, you can't.
00:50 mtj i just wish you could disable the 'issues' feature, on your github project
00:49 mtj im not *that* grumbly with them
00:48 eythian but you're the one putting stuff there! :)
00:48 mtj heh, dont get me started
00:47 eythian grumble github grumble
00:47 mtj cheers for that, gmcharlt
00:46 mtj done.. ^
00:46 mtj your way is much better, tho :p
00:45 gmcharlt ok, go ahead and turn it off now, please
00:45 mtj yeah... i have
00:45 gmcharlt have you been running something to update it?
00:45 gmcharlt easily done
00:45 mtj (the magic that you added to the kohadocs repo)
00:44 mtj ..would you be interested in adding the same github magic to the koha.git repo ?
00:44 mtj hiya
00:44 gmcharlt mtj: hmm?
00:43 mtj hey gmcharlt, about?
00:43 wahanui yeah, yeah, hello, hello. Now fix some bugs for me, please.
00:43 mtj hi all...
00:38 dcook Oh, I meant in terms of countries :p
00:38 dcook cheers eythian also for the mention of the ComposeKey. That's going to make things way easier.
00:38 ibeardslee "The PM & Government Daily Show"
00:37 dcook Which comedy show?
00:36 ibeardslee yeap .. we are sitting on this side of the ditch, wondering which comedy show is going to fail first
00:32 dcook ibeardslee: It sometimes feels like I'm living in a tv show. Can't believe the headlines are real.
00:31 dcook hehe
00:31 eythian "My boss said he wanted the fire drill to be as realistic as possible, but then he yelled at me for looting. Make up your mind, bro."
00:30 dcook Lots of memories bound up in making and eating perogies.
00:30 dcook Well, I can choose not to make them, but my family has made them for many generations.
00:28 eythian perogies are a lifestyle choice?
00:27 * dcook shudders
00:27 ibeardslee but hell no it's a lifestyle choice
00:27 dcook Hmm, I guess I should read more, eh? ;)
00:27 eythian though they do say: "This new DNA study powerfully confirms that Aboriginal Australians are one of the oldest living populations in the world, certainly the oldest outside of Africa,"
00:27 wahanui i guess Complicated is far too mild a term to describe Search.pm.
00:27 dcook Complicated
00:26 dcook Exactly
00:26 eythian well, keep in mind that the Australian aborigines were isolated, maybe that comes into it. Whereas africa would have had millenia of migration, people coming back, interbreeding, conquering, etc.
00:25 dcook Also, regardless of where they come from, perogies are awesome.
00:25 * dcook just finds immigration of all sorts interesting :p
00:25 dcook Not my area of expertise
00:25 dcook I suppose it's still possible that they had an older continuous culture than people in Africa, but that seems... I don't know
00:24 dcook The thing I don't understand about the Australian claim... so they might be one of the first to leave Africa... but what about the people who stayed?
00:23 dcook I think I've heard a few of those
00:23 dcook Ahh yeah
00:23 eythian there's some pretty wacky theories here, based on no evidence and belived only by crazy people, that the Celts were in NZ before the MÄori.
00:23 dcook http://www.australiangeographic.com.au/news/2011/09/dna-confirms-aboriginal-culture-one-of-earths-oldest/
00:22 * dcook can't figure out how to say what he's thinking now
00:21 dcook I'm actually pretty intrigued about that..
00:21 dcook Ah yeah
00:21 dcook I mean that there were no indigenous people there before the other folk got there
00:21 eythian people got there somehow.
00:21 eythian well, it applies to most places
00:20 dcook Hmm?
00:20 eythian to be fair, the same applies to NZ
00:20 eythian heh
00:20 dcook Seeing that all Icelanders are immigrants originally
00:20 eythian I wouldn't say no to a trip to Iceland
00:20 dcook I wonder what their policy on immigration is...
00:20 * dcook needs to meet some Icelanders to confirm this
00:19 dcook Yep. From what I recall, it hasn't changed much in the past 1000 years
00:19 eythian just that it's a pretty old form of Scandinavian languages
00:17 eythian I don't know a whole lot about it.
00:16 dcook Icelandic is neat
00:15 dcook ^ for both statements
00:15 dcook Yeah, I imagine
00:15 eythian Icelandic still uses it, I think
00:15 dcook That would've been useful for the Old Norse lit days
00:15 eythian yeah, they're probably expecting different keycaps in that case
00:15 dcook The French ones seem to use ? mark key for é
00:15 eythian though, it does risk confusion with p
00:14 eythian don't forget the þorn letter
00:14 dcook Yeah?
00:14 dcook Cedille, I guess
00:14 eythian I think most international layouts bind altgr to the most common accent for that language
00:14 dcook Acute, grave, circumflex... not sure what else I need..
00:13 dcook This seems way more straightforward now than it did to me back then
00:10 dcook That sounds like exactly what I need
00:10 eythian in my case, rÄ«ght Ält gives macrons, and right-menu is ©ompose
00:09 dcook That's what I'm reading now :)
00:09 eythian https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ComposeKey
00:09 eythian ©°mp°ßə key is the best key
00:08 * dcook seems to recall reading about this years ago
00:08 dcook compose?
00:08 eythian compose-e-'
00:08 dcook What do you do in that case?
00:08 eythian but only in a few cases.
00:08 eythian it does use accénts
00:08 dcook Double sweet
00:08 eythian hmm, mostly no.
00:07 dcook Does Dutch use umlauts?
00:07 dcook Sweet
00:07 eythian nl layout is virtually identical to the en layout. I think the only difference is € keys.
00:07 dcook eythian: You don't switch it when you type Dutch?
00:05 eythian dcook: on my computer? I just run the MÄori layout.