Time  Nick          Message
23:21 dcook         Totes
23:20 eythian       hmm, that's certainly worth being aware of
23:20 * dcook       shrugs
23:19 dcook         5.5.33 :S
23:18 dcook         http://bugs.mysql.com/bug.php?id=18274
23:18 dcook         But we're using MariaDB now
23:18 dcook         Looks like it's a bug in MySQL that was supposed to be fixed in 5.5?
23:17 dcook         Or rather the root cause
23:17 dcook         Kudos to the boss for finding that one
23:17 dcook         And it just seems like random chaos
23:17 dcook         So you can't cancel/fill holds for those duplicates
23:17 dcook         reserves gets reset and then you start producing duplicate IDs
23:17 dcook         Like..if you have 50 reserves, and move the 50th to old_reserves
23:16 dcook         Yeah, it only causes occasional problems
23:15 eythian       that's not so terrible
23:15 eythian       oh, I see
23:14 dcook         Looks like it does a max(id)+1 for the reset
23:14 dcook         Yep
23:14 eythian       so that's something you never want to do
23:13 eythian       ah
23:13 dcook         Turns out that MySQL's "OPTIMIZE TABLE" command resets your AUTO_INCREMENT
23:13 eythian       yup
23:13 dcook         eythian: Remember how I mentioned that reserves vs old_reserves issue I was having?
22:11 rangi         ill wait and see the summary, as long as its guidelines, not rules, i can probably work with anything
22:09 rangi         like gmcharlt said, probably in some modules
22:09 cait          to have the code in a Koha: module?
22:09 cait          i think the caching might be a good point
22:08 cait          people could comment on that
22:08 cait          i think there was supposed to be as ummary written
22:06 rangi         im kinda sick of dev meetings
22:06 cait          someone else wants to add something?
22:06 cait          heh kind of expected that answer
22:06 rangi         actually naw
22:05 cait          rangi: maybe we could have a quick... comments on first meeting one and you repeat what you siad for the logs? :)
22:05 cait          yeah mine too
22:05 oleonard      I thought the first one seemed productive, but it's all over my head.
22:05 cait          i am actuallystill a bit confused by who proposes what
22:04 cait          hmthere should be one
22:04 rangi         not sure, i dont think i have anything worth adding
22:04 oleonard      Is there another dev meeting?
22:03 cait          hm no tcohen yet
22:03 cait          hi oleonard
22:03 wahanui       somebody said oleonard was still here, if you just wish hard enough. or Koha's master UI designer
22:03 rangi         heya oleonard
22:01 oleonard      Hi again #koha
20:55 cait          gmcharlt++
19:56 rangi         and fwiw im against coupling objects tightly with the db, because the db wont always be there in its current state, and 2 we might want to cache objects a lot more than we do now, im mostly in the middle but lean more to Koha::Item than Koha::Schema::Resultset::Item .. because im not sure i want to add a caching layer to DBIx::Class level code .. however working code wins, probably time to finish the discussion and write code
19:54 huginn        rangi: The operation succeeded.
19:54 rangi         @later tell oleonard comments are off for new posts, old ones will switch off after 30 days or so ill kill that spam in the meantime, comments on the site are not really useful
18:58 * oleonard    is off as well
18:58 oleonard      Bye tcohen
18:58 tcohen        bye #koha
18:52 huginn        New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 12162 - Add class="branchcode" to body tag to make OPAC CSS-styleable per branch <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=6246f2c70049baf86bc942c2473793c83057a64f> / Bug 11672: (followup) warnings tested <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=b2839a7c9c8554097bd36de0ad439967e2035c5c> / Bug 11672: Untranslatable dropdown on Guided Reports and dictionary <http://git.koha-c
18:48 * oleonard    submits a patch for his patron attribute type bug
18:29 tcohen        i was kidding, i've just flaged it as spam
18:28 oleonard      tcohen: http://koha-community.org/koha-3-16-3-released/comment-page-1/#comment-54924
18:27 wahanui       which comment are you refuting?
18:27 tcohen        which comment?
18:23 cait          hm maybe only for new posts?
18:23 cait          there was some dicussion about that some days ago i think
18:23 cait          oleonard: hm don't know but i think she turned off the comments on most sites now
18:23 oleonard      http://koha-community.org/koha-3-16-3-released/comment-page-1/#comment-54924
18:22 tcohen        whic comment?
18:22 * oleonard    wonders if wizzyrea is the only one who can do that
18:21 * oleonard    would be happy to help delete comment spam on K-C web site if someone gave him the proper permissions
18:20 oleonard      Oh hey someone commenting on the K-C web site also checks website posts there in the early hours in the dawn as they love to learn more and more
17:54 cait          i somehow thought about patron categories and branch limists
17:54 cait          sorry
17:54 cait          ah, i was thiking patron categories, got confused
17:52 oleonard      Only if I remove the category restriction does the patron attribute entry field appear.
17:51 oleonard      I created a new patron attribute type and chose one patron category to limit it to. When I go to add a patron with that category the patron attribute type doesn't show up.
17:48 cait          and did it save correctly? i think sometimes it does not if you create a patron category from scratch
17:48 cait          oleonard: oh :( where are you looking?
17:46 oleonard      Patron attribute type limitation by category seems to be broken
17:18 gmcharlt      Joubu: thanks
16:53 Joubu         gmcharlt: sorry, I forgot your question about code2lib. So yes it is a "french local group of code4lib" (from the link you sent me)
16:42 cait          ribasushi: me too :) thx for helping us out
16:40 ribasushi     sorry need to attend to something else first, be with you in 30 mins folks
16:40 ribasushi     yes I am
16:38 Joubu         thanks ribasushi!
16:36 cait          ribasushi: oh, you are in Germany? :)
16:35 ribasushi     once again sorry for not making it, pesky deutchebanhn
16:35 ribasushi     tcohen: I will read backlog and write a summary for Joubu
16:34 fridolin      thanks for this meeting
16:33 cait          i have the exam this and a presentation next week... and then the trip, finding time is too had right now
16:32 cait          i hope after 26th i can do more again
16:32 cait          I saw paola tackled some of it:)
16:32 cait          i know, big project
16:32 Joubu         and it's just the plumbing...
16:31 Joubu         cait: it's non pushed patches
16:31 tcohen        i'm sorry, i have to leave now
16:31 Joubu         cait: I made it to show how apply a patch, for testers. There are too many deps, and it's hard to see what apply when you are on a bug report.
16:31 tcohen        ribasushi: we have splitted opinions on how show the ORM be used on the project
16:30 cait          ok
16:30 cait          with gliffy
16:30 cait          oh
16:30 cait          Joubu: what's the pic made with? it looks interesting
16:30 ashimema      missed it
16:30 ashimema      oh yeah..
16:30 Joubu         ashimema: yes, just before ribasushi said hi :)
16:29 tcohen        http://meetings.koha-community.org/2014/development_irc_meeting__23_september_2014__dbic.2014-09-23-15.06.txt
16:29 gmcharlt      ribasushi: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2014/development_irc_meeting__23_september_2014__dbic.2014-09-23-15.06.log.html
16:29 oleonard      Yeah-huh.
16:29 ashimema      we haven't done an end meeting yet
16:29 wahanui       somebody said link was broken. Also, we don't know what tools you're using to create the marc, but there is probably an option in that tool.
16:29 ribasushi     link?
16:29 Joubu         ribasushi: you can have a look at the minutes if you want :)
16:28 ribasushi     I am here now if of any use
16:28 ribasushi     I am really sorry I couldn't make it, delayed train :(
16:28 Joubu         gmcharlt: I don't know, Paul follows it, not me
16:28 ribasushi     folks, hi
16:28 gmcharlt      Joubu: https://groupes.renater.fr/sympa/info/code2bib - I think
16:28 huginn        Log:            http://meetings.koha-community.org/2014/development_irc_meeting__23_september_2014__dbic.2014-09-23-15.06.log.html
16:28 huginn        Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2014/development_irc_meeting__23_september_2014__dbic.2014-09-23-15.06.txt
16:28 huginn        Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community.org/2014/development_irc_meeting__23_september_2014__dbic.2014-09-23-15.06.html
16:28 huginn        Meeting ended Tue Sep 23 16:28:25 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
16:28 tcohen        #endmeeting
16:28 tcohen        ok, thanks every1
16:28 gmcharlt      Joubu: code2bib
16:27 Joubu         is*
16:27 Joubu         gmcharlt: what the name of the ml?
16:27 Joubu         for information, maybe not a lot of people is aware of that.
16:27 gmcharlt      Joubu: on a completely different topic, I just now learned of a code2bib French mailing list... is it like code4lib?
16:27 tcohen        because otherwise it discourages participation
16:26 Joubu         http://www.gliffy.com/go/publish/6160409
16:26 cait          i think the hackfest will be a chance and we can post the code for others to look at
16:26 tcohen        how it should be done
16:26 Joubu         or 1 is good, and it would be good to know :)
16:26 tcohen        I encourage people that disagrees with a specific dev approach, to make it explicit
16:26 tcohen        and we will work on this in person, during the hackfest
16:26 Joubu         so all approches is bad, and I will try something else
16:25 tcohen        some more thoughts will be expressed later
16:25 Joubu         There are tries on 12830, 12896, 8007, 10363
16:25 tcohen        ok, i think the meeting concluded
16:24 gmcharlt      Joubu++ # keeping at it
16:24 gmcharlt      IOW, I think we're making progress, as slow as it may seem
16:23 gmcharlt      and should get even more help when the NZers weigh in
16:23 gmcharlt      I think the discussion today has been helpful
16:23 gmcharlt      I don't disagree
16:23 Joubu         s/I/We
16:23 Joubu         I need to unfreeze this situation
16:23 gmcharlt      Joubu: I know; I'll get to it, but I'm not making promises as to when
16:22 Joubu         gmcharlt: I don't ask a lot. Just how instanciate an object, save it. And possibly a search
16:22 tcohen        Joubu: you're talking about using DBIC?
16:21 Joubu         gmcharlt: I had some tries, but they seem to be bad.
16:21 gmcharlt      utf8 test cases first, then we'll see
16:21 Joubu         gmcharlt: I just would like to know how continue to develop
16:21 tcohen        gmcharlt: do u have some sample test we can take a look at?
16:20 tcohen        :-D
16:20 gmcharlt      in the meantime, I've got more utf8 test cases to write today
16:20 tcohen        ok, i think we have exhausted the discussion for now. I'll try to sumarize on the wiki Joubu set for this topic
16:20 gmcharlt      Joubu: I'm not sure you get to make demands on anybody's time but your own -- but I think I have some ideas on how to implemnt some concision
16:18 tcohen        any more comments/opinions?
16:17 Joubu         just some lines here?
16:16 Joubu         Does nobody want to write some code?
16:15 Joubu         s/lisibility/readability
16:15 Joubu         it's for the lisiblity, maintenability
16:14 gmcharlt      yep, if we can avoid it :)
16:14 tcohen        by *too many* you mean one, right?
16:13 gmcharlt      the trick would be improving that without burying the DBIC classes udner too many layers
16:13 gmcharlt      as far as Joubu's question is concerned - well, current DBIC use in scripts like admin/categorie.pl isn't actually horrid, but I would grant that it's certainly verbose
16:12 gmcharlt      but knowing that it it won't be always possible
16:12 gmcharlt      right - my inclination is to have the RDBMS model match the desired class structure where possible
16:11 tcohen        if we can rely on DBIC for everything
16:10 tcohen        we could think Koha::Biblio makes sense "only" because of a bad underlying model
16:09 tcohen        and in that case, extending Koha::Schema::ResultSet::* should be the way to go
16:09 tcohen        we will still need to put business logic on top of that
16:09 tcohen        BUT
16:09 tcohen        i think in the long run we will have a better model, which makes DBIC classes represent our objects better
16:08 cait          i think the dual approach makes sense tome, but it might be hard to judge at times which route is better
16:08 ColinC        been using dbic and its nice to have a consitent reliable approach where we need classes that span tables like biblio the api should be as similar as possible
16:08 tcohen        i'm here
16:07 wahanui       Using deft allegory, the authors have provided an insightful and intuitive explanation of one of Unix's most venerable networking utilities. http://www.amazon.com/Story-about-Reading-Railroad-Books/dp/0448421658
16:07 Joubu         hum, ping?
16:05 Joubu         When we answered, we should try to have a consistent, simple, easy to use and flexible API
16:04 Joubu         I think it's the first question to consider
16:04 Joubu         I really would like to see how you (everybody) would like to write code in pl file. It's clear to me, but I didn't get ideas/thoughts from others. Don't you have a POC/try somewhere to show?
16:03 cait          i think we becasue we needed ot have this discussion - hopefully the bugs stuck now can then start moving forward
16:02 Joubu         (11518 (effective_itemtype) still NSO, for 6months, and we didn't get enough thoughts)
16:01 gmcharlt      and where needed, e.g., Koha::Biblio, override when something that's hand-constructed
16:01 gmcharlt      there might be the possibility of some AUTOLOAD magic or the like so that we can chop out the "Schema::Result" part of the names to use the DBIC classes directly
16:00 gmcharlt      but to continue my thought
16:00 gmcharlt      tcohen: items, for now
16:00 gmcharlt      there might be the possibility of some AUTOLOAD magic
16:00 tcohen        I don't like the hybrid approach: when does it suffice to use K::S::R?
15:59 gmcharlt      HOWEVER
15:59 gmcharlt      Joubu: I don't want to (or want anybody) to have to write 100+ sets of boilerplate objects to do that when K::S::R can handle that for most objects
15:58 Joubu         s/PatronSet/WhatYouWant
15:58 Joubu         and @patrons = Koha::PatronSet->search(name => 'smith')
15:58 ColinC        From the callers vire both should look the same
15:58 gmcharlt      Joubu: I want consistent *interfaces* for accessors -- I care much less about the base class
15:57 Joubu         my $patron = Koha::Patron->new($patron_info)->insert
15:57 gmcharlt      from the POV of the templates, either way it's going to look like [% object.attribute %] anyway
15:57 Joubu         gmcharlt: I just want consistency, I would like to create all objects using the same way
15:56 gmcharlt      Joubu: I think our main difference of opinion is that I think K::S::R objects should be used when they suffice, and that Koha::* classes should be created when they are necessary, but that we can do both and be happy
15:55 ColinC        No need for a Set object you just have a set of object much as ResultSet itself is a set of objs
15:55 Joubu         manipulate in pl
15:55 Joubu         "passing the K::S::R and K::* objects directly to the template" => to me, we should not manipulate both. Only Koha::*
15:55 gmcharlt      i.e., I could certainly see a Koha::CatalogSearchResultSet class
15:55 tcohen        patron searches?
15:54 gmcharlt      however, catalog searches are a special case
15:54 gmcharlt      Joubu: I disagree in the general case -- i.e., I wouldn't want to see a Koha::Vendor::Set or the like
15:53 Joubu         gmcharlt: do you have a poc to show us? A class with search+crud?
15:53 gmcharlt      and where possible, would be passing the K::S::R and K::* objects directly to the template so that the TT code can take care of fetching attributes for display
15:53 gmcharlt      but the key thing is this: the scripts should be focused on GETTING the objects, but they wouldn't be doing much if any business logic
15:52 Joubu         ok, my fieling is the same, except I would create a Koha::Biblios or Koha::Biblio::Set
15:52 gmcharlt      and as far as the scripts are concerned... yeah, I personally have no problem fetching data directly using DBIC in them
15:52 * jcamins     agrees with gmcharlt on everything that gmcharlt said.
15:51 gmcharlt      and uses plain old arrays and hashes for sets ;)
15:51 gmcharlt      provide constructures where needed so that you can (say) take a Koha::S::R::Biblio and initiatialize a Koha::Biblio object from it
15:51 ColinC        Yes it makes for clear robust code
15:51 cait          Joubu: 3 am in nz i think :(
15:51 tcohen        gmcharlt: even on front end stuff like the .pl scripts¿
15:50 gmcharlt      Joubu: so for now, my view is to use DBIC::ResultSet where possible
15:50 Joubu         rangi: around? if I remember correctly you was not fond of extending K::S::R into "Koha::Object"
15:48 gmcharlt      Joubu: one moment before I answer you, want to check something
15:47 Joubu         you*
15:47 ashimema      I think gmcharlt described it pretty succinctly really.
15:47 Joubu         gmcharlt: how do implement set/list?
15:45 * cait        helps searching... hard to put a hand back on with no hands...
15:45 tcohen        other opinions please?
15:45 * gmcharlt    goes under his desk to look for his hands, which have fallen off
15:44 gmcharlt      but to summarize: I'm suggesting a hybrid approach, one of whose big advantages is that it will allow us to continue to switch thigns over to using DBIC incrementally
15:44 gmcharlt      and thus ends my monologue for now
15:44 gmcharlt      if anything should be a universal base class, I'd go for Class::Accessor
15:43 gmcharlt      too much weight
15:43 gmcharlt      as far as our quesinon #6 is concerned -- I'm not a fan of a Koha::Object and/or Koha::Object::Set as a universal base class
15:43 cait          ok thx :)
15:43 gmcharlt      at least in the cases where the underlying tables have FK relationsips
15:43 cait          so it would get the extended patron attributes etc.
15:43 tcohen        welcome ribasushi
15:42 gmcharlt      well, K::S::R via DBIC does that for us for free
15:42 cait          sorry i am still trying to wrap my mind around it :)
15:42 cait          hm so we would put something there that pulls information from ohter tables as well?
15:42 gmcharlt      now that's not to say that we couldn't have a Koha::Borrowers, but for now it shoudl delegate/pass along as much as psosible to K::S::R::Borrowers
15:41 gmcharlt      so I think that for now K::S::R::Borrowers would be a good base class
15:41 gmcharlt      and (to answer in part a question that cait had asked me) borrowers is an example where the database schema mostly matches how we view the objects
15:40 gmcharlt      but for areas where our data model is good -- I think a lot can be done by adding attribute methods to the underlying K::S::R classes
15:39 gmcharlt      now we may want to provide some syntactic sugar to the reduce the typing to instantiant a K::S::R object
15:39 gmcharlt      so the upshot: on question #1, I fall firmly in the middle
15:38 gmcharlt      as we KNOW that those tables are eventually going to significantly change
15:38 gmcharlt      2. Not *everything* can be done that way -- e.g., I would call for a Koha::Biblio class to be written that (among other things) contains K::S::R::Biblio and K::S::R::Biblioitems objects, and makes some effort to hide the details of those tables
15:37 gmcharlt      e.g., K::S::R::Item->effective_itemtype is a good example
15:36 gmcharlt      1. I dislike adding layers of classes needlessly -- in particular, if a K::S::R object represents an entity adequately, I see no reason not to use it as a base class or a very thinly-encapsulated entity
15:35 gmcharlt      so as far as my current thinking on the overall matter is concerned
15:35 * tcohen      agrees
15:35 gmcharlt      as we have both db-dependent and non-db-dependent ways of testing
15:35 gmcharlt      IOW, I'm sayng that how we decide the DBIC usage questions need not be inlfuenced all that much by testing concerns
15:34 gmcharlt      either way, it can be tested
15:34 gmcharlt      first, I submit that it doesn't matter for the prupose of being able to test things whether code exists as a K::S::R method or as a K::Object method to be reachable for testing
15:33 gmcharlt      next, I'm going to talk about testing
15:33 cait          thx gmcharlt - that#s really helpful
15:33 gmcharlt      so what I've done so far is provided three examples of the sort of business logic we have to deal with
15:33 gmcharlt      (or build procedural code)
15:33 gmcharlt      but rather, build a new class
15:33 gmcharlt      but however you do it, the upshot is that it wouldn't be a good idea to add lots of methods to Koha::S::R::Issue to try to do all of this
15:32 gmcharlt      (and throw exceptions if the loan is against policy)
15:32 gmcharlt      where, in effect, the constructor of that object does things like calculate the due date
15:31 gmcharlt      my $loan = Koha::Loans->new($patron, $item)
15:31 gmcharlt      or a more OO approach
15:31 gmcharlt      e.g., my $due_date = Koha::Loans::get_due_date($patron, $item)
15:31 gmcharlt      now you can envision procedural code
15:30 gmcharlt      for example: the question of calculating the due date of a new loan
15:30 gmcharlt      and that's business logic that pretty much doesn't naturally look like an attribute of an object
15:30 gmcharlt      so, now I'm going to move on to my third (and final) example
15:29 gmcharlt      partcularly when we want to start traveling to related objects like items
15:29 gmcharlt      but if we right such a class ... it would be useful to delegate as much to the underlying K::S::R attribute methods as possible
15:28 gmcharlt      so there, I think the situation calls for (say) a Koha::Biblio object that can be *composed* of (say) a K::S::R::Biblio and a K::S::R::bibioitems object
15:27 gmcharlt      (which, we probably want to do in the long run)
15:27 gmcharlt      and it's vulnerabile to cases where we would want to redo the data structure
15:27 gmcharlt      and so on... but that's stretching things
15:27 gmcharlt      now you /could/ do things like add K::S::R::Biblio->marc to grab the MARC record
15:26 gmcharlt      as if you start from a K::S::R::Biblio object ... you have to go through some convulations to get at everything you might want to ask of a bib record object
15:26 gmcharlt      but the upshot - this is an example where the current relational data model is flawed for our current purposes
15:25 gmcharlt      (and of course, that represents drift from Koha's original quasi-FRBR model, but that's in the past, water under the bridge, etc.)
15:25 gmcharlt      so, as everybody here knows, you need to look at both biblio and biblioitems to get all of the info regarding a bib entity
15:24 gmcharlt      namely, bibs
15:24 gmcharlt      next, I'm going to move on to an example where things are less clear-cut
15:24 gmcharlt      so in that respect, I quite like it
15:24 gmcharlt      2. it gives a *single* place to ask the question - "what is the effective item type of an item?"
15:23 gmcharlt      1. it is definitely testable -- there's nothing stopping unit tests from being written on K::S::R::* objects
15:22 gmcharlt      and there's a lot going for that approach
15:22 gmcharlt      but it's somethat that can be well-encapsulated as (effectively) an attribute of K::S::R::Item
15:22 gmcharlt      there's a bit of business logic there, as of course the effective item type for circ polices depends on the item-level_itypes system preference
15:21 gmcharlt      and the big example is ->effective_itemtype
15:21 gmcharlt      but that it doesn't /exactly/ give everything we need to ask of any item record
15:20 gmcharlt      one thing we could say is that, OK, a Koha::Schema::Result::Item is a decent base class for an item record
15:19 gmcharlt      but let's stick with items for now
15:19 gmcharlt      in others, we haven't
15:19 gmcharlt      which, in many places, we have
15:19 gmcharlt      on the assumption that we've done a reasonably good job with our relational model
15:19 gmcharlt      one way of modeling an item record is to follow the DB schema closely
15:18 gmcharlt      so take, for example, item records
15:18 gmcharlt      so, one way business logic can manifest is as attributes of the underlying entities that we're dealing with
15:18 tcohen        :)
15:18 fridolin      yep sorry
15:18 gmcharlt      umm, may I please have the floor
15:17 fridolin      point 1 : i think since there are aleardy modules nammed nearly like a db table (ie C4/Borrowers.pm), I'll vote for a)
15:17 gmcharlt      OK, so when we are talking about business logic, there are at least two ways in can manifest itself
15:17 ashimema      go for it
15:17 tcohen        please
15:16 gmcharlt      I think that point perhaps could be clarified - may I go through a somewhat lengthly example?
15:16 gmcharlt      hmm
15:16 fridolin      +1 for UT
15:15 tcohen        i.e. using it inside modules, that can be unit tested
15:15 tcohen        I've already expressed that my personal POV is that we should keep the current way of using DBIC
15:14 tcohen        this issue is related to point (1) on th elink
15:14 tcohen        and on the other (b) relying on the ORM only for abstracting the DB and using it to implement our own API in which business logic should be put
15:13 tcohen        on the one hand (a) benefit from DBIC magic, and put (some degree) of business logic into it
15:12 tcohen        there are mainly two discussed POV
15:12 tcohen        the main discussion is related to how much stuff we expect DBIC to provide, and how to do it
15:11 tcohen        #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/DBIC_discussion_overview
15:11 tcohen        The main subject is our adoption of DBIC, and how we do it
15:11 oleonard      #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries
15:10 tcohen        #topic RM introduction
15:10 tcohen        to talk about a specific subject
15:10 tcohen        This is an unusual meeting
15:10 tcohen        ok
15:09 tcohen        khall?
15:08 jcamins       #info Jared Camins-Esakov, C & P Bibliography Services
15:08 tcohen        ok
15:07 Joubu         #info Jonathan Druart, BibLibre
15:07 bgkriegel_    #info Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel
15:07 bgkriegel_    hi
15:07 gmcharlt      #info Galen Charlton, Equinox
15:07 ashimema      do we need to ping ribasushi at some point ;)
15:06 ColinC        #info Colin Campbell PTFS Europe Ltd
15:06 tcohen        #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Universidad Nacional de Cordoba
15:06 cait          #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
15:06 ashimema      #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe
15:06 tcohen        please introduce yourselves using #info name
15:06 cait          good morning gmcharlt
15:06 wahanui       #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
15:06 tcohen        #topic Introductions
15:06 gmcharlt      good morning
15:06 huginn        The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting__23_september_2014__dbic'
15:06 huginn        Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
15:06 huginn        Meeting started Tue Sep 23 15:06:00 2014 UTC.  The chair is tcohen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:05 tcohen        #startmeeting Development IRC meeting, 23 September 2014: DBIC
15:05 cait          ashimema: same here :)
15:05 ashimema      just a random observation.. I can never remember the syntax for it
15:04 cait          you are looking for #startmeeting topic
15:04 ashimema      we've not used the proper vote syntax for a while..
15:04 ashimema      hehe...
15:04 * tcohen      is trying to find the meeting commands
15:03 ashimema      i beleive it is.
15:03 tcohen        it is
15:03 cait          isn't it time?
15:03 cait          hmmm
15:00 reiveune      bye
15:00 * cait        waves
14:05 cait          we can't lose you... or koha would turn out as ugly as....
14:05 * cait        jumps between oleonard and the sword
14:04 cait          noooooooo!
14:04 * oleonard    falls on his sword
14:04 huginn        04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12755 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , MARC Preview doesn't always display in managed MARC record
14:04 oleonard      Ack, Bug 12755 is MY fault!
14:02 oleonard      indradg: I regularly find Koha list messages marked as spam. Could that be it?
13:57 indradg       I seem to be missing a few mail lately
13:56 indradg       is the mailman list manager having issues??
13:52 huginn        04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10558 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, RESOLVED FIXED, Convert records table in manage-marc-import.pl to ajax DataTable
13:51 huginn        04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12755 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , MARC Preview doesn't always display in managed MARC record
13:51 oleonard      So Bug 12755 didn't exist when I tested and signed off on Bug 10558, but now it does...
13:41 indradg       good evening #koha
13:18 cait          Joubu: could you add a check?
13:18 oleonard      It's an obsolete way of doing things
13:18 oleonard      '<a href="javascript:void(0)" onclick=...' It's usually used as a way to fake a "return false" on a link click
13:17 cait          oleonard: can you tell a bit more about it? i can look out for it
13:16 oleonard      There should be a check in the qa tools for "javascript:void(0)"
12:57 Joubu         tcohen: you should have a look at this patch
12:57 ashimema      Thanks Joubu
12:57 Joubu         ashimema: I submitted a patch on it
12:57 ashimema      that was the one ;)
12:56 huginn        04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7372 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Stable , RoadTypes should be folded into Authorised Values
12:56 fridolin      ashimema: you mean pb with Bug 7372 ?
12:56 ashimema      i colleague came accross is again this morning in 3.16.3
12:56 ashimema      does anyone know if the upgrade path between 3.14 and 3.16 has been fixed.. hat nasty db issues
12:55 fridolin      ok
12:55 tcohen        we will coordinate releases
12:54 tcohen        once i get their feedback
12:54 tcohen        galen, or kyle
12:54 tcohen        i haven't heard from galne
12:54 ashimema      hello
12:52 oleonard      Hi tcohen
12:50 tcohen        morning!
12:44 * ashimema    needs some lunch
12:44 * magnuse     gotta run
11:57 oleonard      Hi #koha
08:24 Joubu         gmcharlt, rangi, khall: It would be awesome to see your points of view/notes added to the wiki page I created today (http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/DBIC_discussion_overview). I think we need a quick overview of our problems for the meeting (this afternoon)
08:22 ashimema      ah.. not read mail yet.. sorry
08:22 Joubu         ashimema: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/DBIC_discussion_overview
08:22 Joubu         ashimema: I sent an email yesterday on the ml
08:21 ashimema      what page Joubu?
08:21 ashimema      ?
08:21 Joubu         too bad, nobody updated the dbic wiki page :-(
07:41 fridolin      Hie all
07:39 magnuse       ashimema: yeah, i think winter might be approaching... there was fresh snow in the mountains yesterday
07:21 ashimema      bracing day there magnus
07:15 huginn        ashimema: The current temperature in Pin Green, Stevenage, United Kingdom is 10.9°C (8:10 AM BST on September 23, 2014). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 95%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 30.15 in 1021 hPa (Steady).
07:15 ashimema      @wunder stevenage, uk
07:15 magnuse       hm...
07:15 huginn        magnuse: The current temperature in Realtor, CABRIES, France is 15.1°C (9:05 AM CEST on September 23, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 77%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Rising).
07:15 magnuse       @wunder marseille
07:15 huginn        magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 3.0°C (8:50 AM CEST on September 23, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 70%. Dew Point: -2.0°C. Windchill: -2.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady).
07:15 magnuse       @wunder boo
07:15 magnuse       bonjour Joubu
07:13 Joubu         hello
06:50 alex_a        bonjour
06:43 huginn        magnuse: The operation succeeded.
06:43 magnuse       @later tell gmcharlt is it too late to fix bug 12883 "Holds tab on checkout screen never stops processing" in 3.16.4?
06:40 magnuse       ooh some nice comment spam on http://koha-community.org/
06:39 reiveune      hello
06:36 * ashimema    likes irc channels where the lead dev hangs out.. #mojo is great
06:32 ashimema      haha,.
06:31 * magnuse     imagines eythian's underground package building bunker
06:31 magnuse       a dedicated place, like a separate building or something?
06:30 ashimema      I think eythian goes a step further and has a dedicated place to build them.. then he uploads to a repo to server them
06:30 ashimema      so far so good ;)
06:29 ashimema      I have a dedicated machine for building and hosting my packages..
06:29 magnuse       eythian: i seem to recall you saying it is a good idea to have a dedicated virtualbox for building packages, because if anything goes wrong, it can go really wrong?
06:29 cait          no work today, but will try to be here for the meeting :)
06:28 cait          byeall
06:26 magnuse       ashimema++ for sharing!
06:25 ashimema      feel free to take it a buthcer it  thoguh ;)
06:25 ashimema      I remember it taking allot more steps to work through with more human interactions..
06:25 ashimema      that is the gitified version.. seems the non-gitified version ahs dissapeared into history somewhere..
06:24 ashimema      but it works ;) and has been slowly evolving for a while now.
06:24 ashimema      it's a hackish script as it wasn't ever really intended for anyone to see it ;)
06:24 ashimema      https://github.com/mrenvoize/koha-dev
06:16 * magnuse     can only imagine
06:16 ashimema      and it leads to all sorts of wierdness
06:16 ashimema      I've often run into issues where my background scripts are running off one set of code at one version.. and the rest is running off the clone..
06:15 ashimema      it's easy to get out of sync with a gitified install..
06:15 ashimema      yup..
06:15 magnuse       whereas with a trad dev install you can do make upgrade
06:14 ashimema      gets in the way rather than making things easier.
06:13 ashimema      yeah.. gitified is a bit of a mare for that sort of stuff
06:13 magnuse       especially for testing things like zebra config, right?
06:12 magnuse       yup
06:12 ashimema      but it deffo has it's flaws still
06:12 ashimema      gitified is certainly quick and easy to get up and running..
06:11 magnuse       that would be awesome!
06:11 ashimema      I could sanitize my script and stick it on github if you like?
06:11 magnuse       yeah, i cant quite decide between gitified and a tradtitional dev install either
06:11 magnuse       ashimema: sounds good
06:11 ashimema      I'm tempted to swap back to a non-gitified
06:10 ashimema      though I think at the moment it's set to do a gitified dev env..
06:10 ashimema      once you have a debian installed with a root account, I run my script and it adds appropriate users, grabs koha master, installs it, sets up git-bz, qa tools, vim plugins etc..
06:10 magnuse       ashimema: cool
06:10 magnuse       when i had trouble with my gitified setup the last couple of weeks it was caused by something i tested, it would have saved me a lot of time if could just have scrapped my current setup and got a new one with a couple clicks
06:09 ashimema      I do similar with a bash script at the moment..
06:09 ashimema      in which case, I'm all for it..
06:09 magnuse       the main point would be to be able to have a um, "pristine" environment to work in, quickly
06:08 magnuse       well, we'd use it for development too
06:05 ashimema      anything beyond the ability to test a few extra patches that the sandboxes don't cope well with?
06:05 ashimema      magnuse.. what extra's are you envisioning getting from that vs the sandboxes?
06:03 ashimema      good morning
06:00 eythian       That's about as much as I can contribute :)
05:59 eythian       it seems like a good idea.
05:58 magnuse       at opl we are thinking about creating a standardized dev environment to make it as easy as possible to get up and running with development/testing patches. something like using vagrant to create a virtualbox with a working dev install, git bz, the qa tools etc. anyone else considered something like that? or interested in it?
05:45 cait          aleisha++
05:45 cait          thank you!
05:45 magnuse       aleisha++
05:45 cait          cool :)
05:44 aleisha       i can sign that one off now :)
05:43 aleisha       ah yes that's more like it
05:42 cait          rangi: makes sense
05:41 cait          inthe system preferences - look for xslt
05:41 rangi         cait: only on new installs i think
05:41 cait          you need to turn on the xslt display - i thougth that was on by default
05:40 cait          ah
05:40 rangi         magnuse: no worries
05:40 cait          aleisha: sec, i have to look up the password
05:39 huginn        04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11401 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, magnus, Signed Off , Add support for Norwegian national library card
05:39 cait          i think it might index every 10 minutes if we are lucky
05:39 magnuse       rangi++ x100 for signing off bug 11401
05:39 aleisha       cait is this what it's supposed to look like? http://pro.test14.biblibre.com/cgi-bin/koha/catalogue/detail.pl?biblionumber=9
05:37 * magnus_away waves
05:35 cait          the last should open in a new window i think
05:34 cait          hm there should be 2 links i think, one to open the record as marc (from the title) and the biblionumber at the end of the table
05:34 aleisha       the link is clickable but doesn't take me anywhere
05:33 cait          yo could use the link from th estaged import to get there
05:33 cait          the problem is on result too, but you'd see the effect on deail immediately i think
05:33 rangi         ah right
05:32 rangi         you can get to the detail page without it being indexed though eh?
05:32 cait          for the result list it needs to be reindexed to see it... else we could change an existing record
05:32 cait          rangi: hm not sure
05:32 rangi         i wonder how often the sandboxes index?
05:32 cait          it should look like in the catalog link, without the patch the script all runs to gether and is not on the other side
05:31 cait          hm wait until it's indexed an dthen go to the detail page
05:31 aleisha       so then what do i do after I've imported it into the catalog?
05:25 cait          it's something not a lot of libaries use, but quite important to this one :)
05:24 cait          thx for taking a look :)
05:24 aleisha       thanks cait i'll try that!
05:22 cait          [off] an example would be this: https://hfjs.bsz-bw.de/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=30613
05:22 huginn        04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12281 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , RTL display for records using 880 broken in Bootstrap
05:22 cait          i saw your comment on bug 12281 - i think maybe easier to download some records that are cataloged that way
05:21 cait          aleisha?
05:15 rangi         sounds good
05:15 eythian       I'm planning to manually apply the patch and revert back the bits I want to keep.
05:14 eythian       I expect there will be quite a few conflicts.
05:14 rangi         its just a database update taht removes that variable
05:14 rangi         ill sign it off, and note that
05:14 rangi         thats the only bit of 12538 that overlaps i think
05:13 eythian       yep
05:13 rangi         eythian: does your elasticsearch code use teh SearchEngine syspref anywhere?
04:58 ibeardslee    seems to
04:52 rangi         http://www.pressreader.com/bookmark/EGG26VFDWDV/  does this url work?
04:22 rangi         aleisha: 12281, 12959, 12893, 12775, 12944
03:15 huginn        eythian: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 15.0°C (3:00 PM NZST on September 23, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 63%. Dew Point: 8.0°C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Falling).
03:15 eythian       @wunder nzwn
00:11 rangi         ive never tried to set up either so i have no idea
00:09 tcohen        will try evenbrite tomorrow with bgkriegel
00:09 rangi         hehe
00:09 tcohen        if evenbrite has a way to change the user's password, that's a win heh
00:08 rangi         sweet
00:08 rangi         is eventbrite any better?
00:08 tcohen        it is uncomfortable to set, but its pretty neat once you see it on the mobile app
00:07 rangi         ahhh the old freemium trick eh
00:07 tcohen        will complete the schedule there
00:07 tcohen        at least the free edition
00:07 tcohen        rangi: i found eventbase to have a limited functionality
00:06 tcohen        should check if there exists some system they use to xpose their catalog, online
00:05 wahanui       ah, that is, like, just to say that everything should be on one line
00:05 tcohen        ah, that
00:04 eythian       Bookpickeries
00:03 tcohen        what are those places where people pick books named?
00:03 * tcohen      should grab a Xenoxide's copy to read this weekend
00:02 rangi         heh
00:02 * tcohen      thinks is not a big loss, though
00:00 tcohen        hmm
00:00 * tcohen      accidentally deleted Ender's game copy
00:00 eythian       hi tcohen