Time  Nick            Message
00:06 jenkins_koha    Starting build #464 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: STILL FAILING -- last SUCCESS #457 1 day 10 hr ago)
00:06 jenkins_koha    Yippee, build fixed!
00:06 wahanui         o/ '`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`
00:06 jenkins_koha    Project Koha_Docs build #464: FIXED in 2 min 22 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/464/
00:06 jenkins_koha    * Nicole C. Engard: update local cover images info
00:06 jenkins_koha    * Nicole C. Engard:  update patron holds info in opac
00:06 jenkins_koha    * Nicole C. Engard: update images for opac patron record
00:10 wizzyrea        hahaha it throws confetti when the build works. That's awesome
00:27 mtompset        Why is MiJ?
00:27 mtompset        ^Why^What^
00:28 eythian         It means "me" in Dutch.
00:30 mtompset        "MiJ is faster than Marcxml" -- What was jcamins talking about?
00:30 eythian         http://search.cpan.org/~gmcharlt/MARC-File-MiJ-0.04/lib/MARC/Record/MiJ.pm
00:32 mtompset        [off] And why was tcohen cursing indexdata? Because of Zebra, ICU, and facets?
00:33 eythian         probably
00:40 mtompset        Greetings, tcohen
00:41 tcohen          hi mtompset
00:41 mtompset        [off] Since you just popped back in why were you cursing indexdata? Because of Zebra, ICU, and facets?
00:47 tcohen          [off] facets, didn't find a way to control how many facets are retrieved, looks like it is hardcoded at 20
00:47 tcohen          there's an option, that it is not documented to control that
01:06 tcohen          night #koha
01:53 dcook           What are folks thoughts on clone-rules.pl?
01:53 dcook           Creating a temporary table then dropping it?
01:56 eythian         dcook: is it actually using "create temporary table"?
01:56 eythian         if so, I have less issue with it than if it was creating a real one.
01:56 dcook           Yep
01:57 dcook           Could use "DROP TEMPORARY TABLE" instead of "DROP TABLE" but I'm not sure how cross-database that is
01:58 eythian         don't know.
01:58 eythian         basically, I'd say if it's the best way to do whatever it's trying to do, then it's fine. If it's not, then it's not :)
01:58 dcook           hehe
01:58 dcook           Well said, eythian ;)
02:00 dcook           Seems to me that it could be done a bit more elegantly although I'm not sure if that's relying on MySQLism or not *shrug*
02:00 dcook           Does the trick anyway
02:31 mtompset        I think I finally have a solid test plan. I wish people would write clear, mildly verbose, instructions for their test plans.
03:17 mtompset        I hate putting failed QA, but that's the proper setting. :(
03:33 mtompset        11213 down... 11909 to start.
03:49 quyen           Hello
03:49 wahanui         hi, quyen
03:49 quyen           I try to start with koha 3.12
03:49 quyen           I know it is a good ILS
03:50 quyen           Now, I would like to setup plugins but I can't please guide me how to do it
03:50 quyen           And I'm not sure to convert data from ISIS to koha
03:51 quyen           Althoug I have read Mark Edit
03:51 quyen           But my data is vietnamese code
03:54 quyen           I'm sorry, maybe you are busy
03:54 quyen           Please send me your guidance when you have free time.
03:55 quyen           and 1 more, I'd like integrated dspace on e-resource of bibliographic framework
04:10 mtompset        wahanui: Is a bot. It is not human.
04:11 mtompset        You probably was to start with 3.14, if you are just starting using Koha.
04:11 mtompset        You probably want to start with 3.14, if you are just starting using Koha.
04:11 mtompset        Data conversion. I can't help you. I'm not familiar with ISIS.
04:12 mtompset        And given that I should have gone to sleep 12 minutes ago (it is 12:12AM here), I can't quite understand your third request.
04:13 mtompset        There are not many people here right now (lunch for a lot of people), midnight for others.
04:13 mtompset        You may wish to ask on the mailing lists.
04:13 mtompset        mailing lists?
04:13 wahanui         mailing lists are http://koha-community.org/support/koha-mailing-lists/
04:13 mtompset        Have a great day, #koha.
04:13 wajasu          gnight
04:22 wajasu          quyen: this may be helpful: http://isistomarc.pbworks.com/w/page/7858377/FrontPage
04:25 quyen           Thank you very much! Best wishes to you!
04:28 quyen           the third request, I mean that I have a file .kpz (koha plugins) but I can't install it into koha system. Please guide me when you can. Thank you very much.
04:42 wajasu          quyen: might give guidance. http://bywatersolutions.com/koha-plugins/
04:45 wajasu          note sure, but you might also see if you need ICU for your vietnamese characters for searches.  but get some data loaded, and indexed so you can get searches going.
05:11 huginn          New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 7339] Help System in IE8 Does Not Load With 500 Error <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7339> / [Bug 6875] de-nesting C4 packages <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6875> / [Bug 6536] Z3950 Enhancements: SRU targets, MARC conversion, additional XSLT processing (umbrella report) <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6536>
05:45 * dcook         waves
05:45 dcook           Oh, I forgot to eat lunch...
05:45 * dcook         remedies that
06:14 cait            late lunch?
06:14 * cait          waves back
06:15 dcook           Late lunch/early supper?
06:15 dcook           It's Friday and I'm down to 30 local issues in our bug tracker :D
06:15 dcook           Hopefully I'll reduce that number quickly at the start of next week and get back into some community involvement (he says for the third time in three months)
06:19 cait            woohoo
06:19 cait            not sure when i last saw that :)
06:24 dcook           Hehe. It wasn't that long ago, but hopefully it's for real this time. I've been working hard to get caught up. Hopefully I'll be putting up a few bug reports and testing...
06:24 paxed           what do cataloguers use to catalogue? because i don't believe for a second they'd use koha's current system
06:24 dcook           I think they usually use their brains and their fingers
06:24 dcook           But I think I'm just being facetious :p
06:24 dcook           You can do cataloguing in so many different ways
06:25 dcook           In lots of different systems at lots of different experience levels
06:25 dcook           As a fairly experienced cataloguer, I would ideally use "Rancor" that pianohacker is developing. It's old school and lots of pro cataloguers would probably love it.
06:25 paxed           right, that's why i said "koha's _current_ system"
06:25 dcook           Lots of non-pros don't necessarily mind Koha's current system.
06:25 dcook           Aside from some of the scary MARC labels
06:26 paxed           why would a non-pro be allowed to catalogue anyway?
06:26 dcook           O_o
06:26 dcook           "allowed to catalogue"?
06:26 paxed           GIGO
06:26 * dcook         facepalm
06:26 wahanui         http://buikitty.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/20120202-094434.jpg
06:27 dcook           Not every library can employ full-time cataloguers or library technicians
06:27 dcook           Nor is cataloguing a required course in library schools
06:27 dcook           "many" library schools*
06:27 dcook           I would say 99% of the librarians I support have never taken a cataloguing course
06:27 paxed           ours would kill us if we tried to get them to use koha's current system.
06:28 dcook           Many of them don't know AACR2/RDA, MARC, etc
06:28 dcook           I had the feeling you might have your own cataloguers, paxed ;)
06:28 dcook           Are you at a public or academic institution?
06:28 paxed           public library
06:28 dcook           There you go
06:28 dcook           And they'd be right to kill you
06:28 dcook           Koha's current system isn't set up for a pro who is doing this 8 hours a day
06:29 paxed           so what do they use?
06:29 dcook           Well, I suspect that they do use it
06:29 dcook           But there are alternatives
06:29 dcook           If it's a wealthy public library, they could use OCLC and then import the records into Koha using a few different methods
06:29 cait            paxed: did you ask them what especially they don't like?
06:30 paxed           OCLC is not an option - we are not an american library
06:30 dcook           OCLC is quite active outside America as well, but I take your point
06:30 dcook           There are other cataloguing agencies out there. Lots of cataloguing is outsourced these days.
06:31 dcook           But I guess the real question is...
06:31 dcook           What's your question, paxed?
06:31 dcook           Does your public library use Koha?
06:31 dcook           Or do you want it to use Koha?
06:31 paxed           ask kivilahtio when we will be using it.
06:32 paxed           supposedly we'll start using it this summer.
06:33 dcook           Mmm, so you're worried about what the cataloguers will think.
06:34 dcook           What's your role in the migration?
06:34 paxed           i'm one of the devs.
06:35 dcook           Do you have a project manager who is managing the softer side of things?
06:35 paxed           translation was a big part of my job, but that's now 99% done. now i've tackled some koha deficiencies our library needs, but there's still lots to do.
06:36 paxed           yes
06:36 dcook           In my experience, it's handy to have someone talk to everyone (especially in technical services) and figure out what they've been doing with the past system.
06:36 dcook           That way, you can figure out what they will need to do in the current system, and address any gaps.
06:37 dcook           (And of course create efficiencies wherever possible as older workflows almost always have redundant steps in them.)
06:37 dcook           Perhaps they already use a third-party tool for cataloguing.
06:37 dcook           If not, find out what they do currently use.
06:37 paxed           closed-source ILS.
06:37 dcook           That's not what I mean really
06:38 dcook           How do they use that ILS
06:38 dcook           What does the screen look like? How do they interact with it?
06:38 dcook           Is it web-based?
06:38 paxed           no, it's windows program.
06:39 dcook           So does it use form fields or is it more like a text editor?
06:39 paxed           for example, koha's system doesn't populate eg. LDR, 008, etc. correctly when changing frameworks.
06:40 dcook           I think you might not understand the purpose of frameworks
06:40 paxed           could be.
06:40 dcook           Or maybe I don't understand them quite right ;)
06:40 dcook           I'll look
06:41 dcook           Ah, right.
06:41 dcook           Yeah, frameworks are arbitrary.
06:41 dcook           There's no reason why they would change values for the LDR, 008, or certain other fixed fields
06:41 dcook           I suppose in theory that could be changed...
06:42 dcook           It would probably even be a good idea
06:42 dcook           It would reduce user error
06:42 dcook           Cataloguing is a bit of a weakness with Koha, I think
06:43 dcook           But, the joy of open source is that it can be changed :)
06:43 cait            you can set a default value for the fixed fields i think
06:43 cait            but probably only works when you first open the framework
06:43 dcook           I didn't see any defaults for 008 or Leader as they use plugins
06:43 cait            i do that for our FA
06:43 dcook           Ah...although I suppose you could use a default value...
06:43 cait            you can set the string in the normal configuration, but it's a bit fiddly with the plugins, i have only used it, when the plugins are not used
06:44 dcook           Hmm, that would be interesting to try
06:45 paxed           aösp bug 9093
06:45 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9093 normal, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , 008 forgetting what material type was chosen
06:45 paxed           also*
06:47 dcook           Ah, I think that might not mean what people think it means
06:48 dcook           I'd have to look at the code, but I think - as Bernardo points out - the values are probably fine
06:48 cait            it could be a good thing to fix that bug
06:48 dcook           It's just the label that is probably off
06:48 cait            yeah i think that's it
06:49 dcook           In any case, I need to head to the vet!
06:49 dcook           Finally found out what is wrong with one of our cats \o/
06:49 dcook           Debugging the cat!
06:55 cait            oh
07:07 * magnuse       waves
07:35 reiveune        hello
07:36 alex_a          bonjour
07:39 markvandenborre buongiorno, goedemorgen
07:47 sophie_m        hello #koha
07:58 * magnuse       waves again
08:20 magnuse         kia ora cait!
08:20 cait            hi Magnuse :)
08:22 magnuse         :-)
09:09 paxed           OPAC doesn't show how many reserves a book has?
09:19 gaetan_B        hello
09:25 ashimema        Morning Koha...
09:34 magnuse         hiya ashimema
09:57 * paxed         goes ah-ha
09:57 paxed           lovely, a FIXME in code clears up the situation.
10:18 paxed           except when RoutingListAddReserves is set.
10:24 cait            routinglistaddreserves doesn't work
10:24 paxed           oh?
10:25 cait            well in my experience it does not - but you can test it again
10:25 cait            i filed a bug report with my findings
10:31 paxed           the only place where AddReserve is called with constraint other than 'a' is routing-preview.pl ... and that piece of code looks a bit weird.
10:45 paxed           the weirdness dates back to 2006, coming from katipo.
10:59 cait            paxed: it#s not weirdness, but holds worked differently back then
10:59 cait            katipo wrote the first version of koha
11:00 paxed           cait: well, unused variables. see $totalcount and $count
11:01 cait            yeah, someone broke it
11:01 cait            adding a new feature... not thinking about how an existing one worked
11:02 cait            reasons why we have QA today - trying to make sure nothing gets broken
11:04 paxed           was it broken when the changes from katipo were folded in 2006?
11:06 cait            it wasn't broken then no
11:06 cait            it used to work in the first koha I saw, which was past 2007
11:06 paxed           because $count and $totalcount weren't used in katipo's code either. git show f408ead60b7d55eb9f6fde05097a4e99278c1d1f
11:06 cait            git is sometimes hard to read
11:06 cait            especially the real old commits
11:08 cait            @later tell pianohacker - want to test the external targets bug with you next week - suggest a time? ideally my afternoon would be good if that's doable. I will have a Debian machine then to test with :)
11:08 huginn          cait: The operation succeeded.
12:02 slef            @seen magnuse
12:02 huginn          slef: magnuse was last seen in #koha 2 hours, 27 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <magnuse> hiya ashimema
12:02 slef            (hi all)
12:05 cait            hi slef
12:06 mtompset        Greetings, #koha.
12:25 wajasu          i built a fresh new debian VM with koha packages and non-ICU, and tried to get facets to respond in yaz-client  like dcook did in bug 11232, but just can't get it to work.
12:25 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11232 new feature, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Retrieve facets from Zebra
12:26 mtompset        Sucky, wajasu. :(
12:27 wajasu          thats what i was thinking
12:30 mtompset        wajasu: Could you check that you can git bz apply 7567 on a new branch of master with minimal difficulty?
12:31 wajasu          sure. one moment
12:35 wajasu          yay! i got the facet behavior to work. like dcook did.
12:35 wajasu          grabbing your bug now.
12:35 ashimema        thats promising
12:35 oleonard        Hi #koha
12:35 ashimema        hi oleonard
12:35 mtompset        ashimema, only slightly. There are ICU issues.
12:36 wajasu          i will try to investigate ICU later.
12:37 ashimema        less promising..
12:37 ashimema        I played with it with dcook at kohacon.. but don't remember the details tbh
12:41 mtompset        wajasu: There... confirmed the sha1 problem of Joubu. It should work no problems now.
12:42 wajasu          11 patches for that one. in progress.
12:42 mtompset        Yes, tiny, incremental patches.
12:42 mtompset        Easy to test each piece.
12:45 wajasu          let me try again. :)
12:50 wajasu          fatal: sha1 information is lacking or useless (C4/NewsChannels.pm) on  patch id 25325  Use Display Filter,,  Cannot fall back to three-way merge
12:51 wajasu          mtompset: i was doing git am -i -u -3 ...
13:37 tcohen          morning #koha
13:39 rhcl            Morning tcohen
14:03 magnuse         any koha people going to http://code4lib.org/conference/2014/schedule ? (appart from anne-lena and asgeir from opl)
14:18 francharb       hi!
14:20 magnuse         hiya francharb
14:24 dbs             magnuse: Do I count as a koha person? If so, yes
14:31 magnuse         dbs: sure! and: ah, yes :-)
14:32 magnuse         dbs: make sure you have a good talk with Anne-Lena Westrum and Asgeir Rekkavik - they are going to replace marc with rdf in a year or two
14:32 magnuse         (with the possibility to dumb rdf down to marc if there are no other options)
14:37 dbs             magnuse: cool! will do
14:39 magnuse         marcmustdie!
14:55 magnuse         friday?
14:55 wahanui         friday is pizzaday!
14:55 magnuse         w00t!
14:55 * magnuse       calls it a week
14:55 JesseM          Pizza Day!!!
15:20 Oak             kia ora #koha
15:20 Oak             hello cait
15:20 Oak             magnuse
15:20 Oak             hello mtompset
15:21 druthb          kia ora, Oak!
15:21 Oak             @wunder Konstanz
15:21 huginn          Oak: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 20.0°C (4:00 PM CET on March 21, 2014). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 13%. Dew Point: -1.0°C. Pressure: 29.85 in 1011 hPa (Falling).
15:21 Oak             hello druthb ! :)
15:59 jenkins_koha    Starting build #465 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: FIXED)
15:59 jenkins_koha    Project Koha_Docs build #465: SUCCESS in 2 min 34 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/465/
15:59 jenkins_koha    Nicole C. Engard: update AcqItemSetSubfieldsWhenReceived
16:13 jenkins_koha    Starting build #466 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: SUCCESS)
16:13 jenkins_koha    Project Koha_Docs build #466: SUCCESS in 2 min 1 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/466/
16:13 jenkins_koha    Nicole C. Engard: add SelfCheckReceiptPrompt
16:55 cait            hi Oak!
17:19 francharb       hey jcamins, if you still dont know what to do with the frogs you might buy one day at your local store : http://dailypicksandflicks.com/2011/12/21/bullfrog-playing-ant-crusher-video/
17:19 francharb       ;)
17:21 jcamins         francharb: I see a problem with that. After the frog is done playing on the iPad, it will attack the owner.
17:23 francharb       well, you'll never know until you try it... ;)
17:39 reiveune        bye
17:39 druthb          ZOMGBRILLIANT:  http://usecloak.com/
17:50 * cait          waves
17:51 tcohen          hi cait
17:51 cait            hi tcohen :)
17:51 cait            looking at the schedule just this moment :)
17:51 cait            asado? :)
17:52 tcohen          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asado
17:53 jcamins         tcohen: asado doesn't seem very good for vegetarians.
17:53 cait            oh food!
17:53 tcohen          oh, we put several vegetables on the grill too!
17:54 * cait          is persuaded ... just have to persuade some others now as well
17:56 tcohen          jcamins: when I do an asado, I usually put half meat and half vegetables
17:57 jcamins         tcohen: oooh. I like grilled vegetables!
17:57 jcamins         Though, alas, I probably won't be able to make KohaCon this year. :(
17:57 tcohen          oh, that's sad!
17:58 jcamins         Yeah. :(
17:59 jcamins         No Argentine tango in Argentina for us.
18:01 tcohen          :(
18:34 tcohen          is there a wiki page for the work on retrieving facets from Zebra?
18:37 cait            hm ont sure, it hink most is on the bug
18:39 cait            tcohen: is the last line on the schedule correct?
18:39 cait            there is a gab between12 - 20
18:40 tcohen          its very wrong :-D
18:42 mtompset        @later tell Oak Sorry, I had my chauffeur hat on.
18:42 huginn          mtompset: The operation succeeded.
18:48 tcohen          cait: it is 10/12
18:48 tcohen          dunno why get wrote that with bgkriegel
18:48 tcohen          oh, i get it
18:48 tcohen          by brain and my fingers haven't reached a consensus
18:52 cait            you want to keep us around :)
18:52 tcohen          of course !
18:52 tcohen          maybe until january then?
18:55 tcohen          cait. icu?
19:01 cait            hm?
19:31 cait            tcohen: did you just post the solution for facets with zebra AND ICU??!
19:31 cait            tcohen++
19:50 * mtompset      is excited to hear about the facet progress. Combine that with something customizable, and we'll be awesome. :)
19:50 cait            we'll totally be :)
19:54 oleonard        Bye #koha, have a good weekend!
20:10 cait            printer--
20:10 mtompset        Why, cait?
20:10 cait            because i wasted a lot of paper printing my train ticket for tomorrow
20:10 cait            *sigh* printers hate me
20:18 mtompset        It's probably not 100% your fault. Blame the application designers who provided it in a way that is difficult to print. ;)
20:20 rhcl            yea, it's those layer 7 programmers...
20:38 mtompset        maybe layer 6? ;)
20:39 rhcl            well, if it applications then layer 7, but if it the device drivers that's layer 2
20:39 rhcl            its
22:24 wajasu          i am getting results for facets for non-ICU now.  looking at ICU, I get results, but the displayed text is garbled, so I cam looking at the ICU transliteration rules for the phrases :p option
22:24 wajasu          refereing to http://userguide.icu-project.org/transforms/general/rules#TOC-Context
22:25 cait            wajasu: did you see the newest comments on the bug?
22:25 wajasu          yes
22:26 wajasu          it looks like tcohen got some results.  i haven't got there yet.
22:28 wajasu          i get <term coccur="4" occur="2">&quot;1/I3OKCAK7A+=&apos;7I)</term>
22:29 cait            that looks like a weird mix
22:29 wajasu          i had success with non-ICU.  but am trying to ICU.   wasn't sure is tcohen did ICU.
22:30 wajasu          well you can see xml escaped stuff in there.  and the count of chars i believe matches the correct result closely.  so i think its a transliteration icu-chain rule.
23:54 jcamins         wajasu: I can't help you with this now, but I think Tomas may have documented how he set up facets to work with ICU. The key point is that -- as pointed out way back at KohaCon  -- the :p indexes CANNOT BE USED FOR FACETS. You MUST use :0 indexes.