Time Nick Message
00:12 dcook Anyone have any idea why 952$e "source of acquisition" exists?
00:12 dcook I suppose there might be value in knowing the source of acquisition for an item...but it doesn't appear that it really display anywhere in Koha.
00:13 jcamins For mapping 852.
00:13 dcook 852?
00:14 jcamins @marc 852
00:14 huginn` jcamins: Identifies the organization holding the item or from which it is available. May also contain detailed information about how to locate the item in a collection. (Repeatable) [a,b,c,e,f,g,h,i,j,k,l,m,n,p,q,s,t,u,x,z,2,3,6,8]
00:16 dcook O_o
00:16 dcook Still don't see how that would fit into the 852
00:16 dcook Especially as a "booksellerid" unless that's a DB name that's a holdover from something else
00:16 dcook Wouldn't the source of acquisition be the source of acquisition and not its holding location?
00:17 jcamins Sorry, that's not the one I was thinking of.
00:17 jcamins I don't have holdings bookmarked.
00:17 jcamins 876.
00:17 jcamins @marc 876
00:17 huginn` jcamins: [Described in full under field 876 in the MARC 21 Concise Format for Holdings Data.] (Repeatable) []
00:18 dcook Ahhh
00:18 dcook That makes more sense :)
00:19 dcook That's interesting how it sort of maps across
00:20 dcook Thanks jcamins :)
00:20 dcook jcamins++
00:21 dcook I suppose items.booksellerid is still a misnoner but at least it's a medium text field..
00:21 dcook So no real purpose aside from that?
00:22 jcamins There may have been, but that's my guess.
00:22 dcook Good guess
01:22 * mtompset grumbles about the pains of writing a test.
01:22 mtompset I can't seem to get it quite right.
01:23 mtompset Faking a dummy member should be easy.
01:23 mtompset I mean patron.
01:46 tweetbot_ [off] @oleonard: "A hundred quatloos to the one who signs off on my new #KohaILS OPAC theme."
01:49 * eythian bids three hundred quatloos for the newcomers.
02:01 mtompset Good Lord! I found a bug in a test that I was using to create my own.
02:01 mtompset What madness that was!
02:03 mtompset Could someone else confirm this: t/db_dependent/Members.t Line 50... the -> should be a ::
02:04 jcamins Confirmed.
02:05 rangi C4::Context->set_userenv ( @USERENV );
02:05 rangi that line?
02:06 jcamins rangi: yeah, C4::Context fails to handle the first argument.
02:06 mtompset Yes.
02:07 mtompset jcamins++ # thank you for checking.
02:07 rangi the pod needs to be fixed too
02:07 mtompset rangi++ # thank you for noticing. :)
02:08 rangi id file a bug to fix C4::Context
02:09 mtompset But you would also have to go looking for C4::Context(::|->)set_userenv calls.
02:09 jcamins Yeah, but you have to do that regardless.
02:09 rangi there are are precisely 2
02:09 rangi InstallAuth and Auth.pm
02:10 rangi there are more using -> than ::
02:10 rangi and having a hlaf object .pm is kinda mental
02:12 rangi its even worse
02:12 rangi C4/Auth.pm:645: C4::Context::set_userenv(
02:12 rangi C4/Auth.pm:1497: C4::Context->set_userenv( "$borrowernumber", $userid, $cardnumber
02:13 rangi so yeah it needs to be fixed
02:13 mtompset Oh mercy!
02:14 rangi luckily its only in 2 files (and the tests)
02:14 rangi C4/Auth.pm and installer/InstallAuth.pm
02:18 mtompset but looking at the content of Auth.pm -- Should there be any C4::Context::<blah>'s at all?
02:19 mtompset set_shelves_userenv
02:20 mtompset I suppose C4::Context::KOHAVERSION is a variable, so :: makes sense?
02:20 rangi kinda
02:21 mtompset Though, not in the purest object form sense. :)
02:22 rangi ideally you would have a method to get the version to
02:23 * mtompset nods.
02:25 mtompset So a bug report for each function/method of C4::Context that isn't called like an object?
02:27 eythian one bug to cover them all is probably sufficient.
02:28 mtompset *sigh* I just want my test for the patch to work on the current master, so I guess a bad test it is. :(
02:28 dcook One Bug to rule them all, One Bug to find them,
02:28 dcook One Bug to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
02:28 dcook A bad test?
02:28 mtompset Using the :: instead of the ->
02:28 dcook So a suboptimal test
02:29 dcook A bad test makes me think the test doesn't work :p
02:29 mtompset bad as in quality, not in functionality.
02:30 dcook Whoa...permissions have changed a lot in master..
02:30 eythian well, you could fix the test as an additional patch to your bug if it's needed. I don't imagine anyone would complain about that.
02:41 eythian arg master packages can't build due to test failure
02:41 eythian DBI connect('dbname=koha;host=localhost;port=3306','kohaadmin',...) failed: Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (2) at /tmp/buildd/koha-3.13/blib/PERL_MODULE_DIR/C4/Context.pm line 810
02:41 eythian ...
02:41 eythian do people not test this properly?
02:42 rangi i just fixed that
02:42 eythian oh, handy :)
02:42 eythian what's the bug number, I'll roll it in
02:42 rangi bug 10897
02:42 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10897 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Needs Signoff , t/ILSDI_Services.t is db dependent
02:42 rangi i fixed it by mocking the dbh call
02:44 rangi fwiw i test by switching off mysql
02:45 eythian I was thinking we should have the 00-load.t test behave like there's no connection, it'd catch a lot of the cases anyway.
02:46 eythian like, remove the connection details from C4::Context or something, so that things will fail no matter if there's a db there or not.
02:46 rangi yep
02:50 * rangi plays with git bisect run prove -l t/ILSDI_Services.t
02:50 rangi and it found me the bad commit
02:51 rangi 995f4b6ecb504e1648816b0841e90efb814f25c7
02:51 rangi +use C4::Auth;
02:51 rangi that did it
02:56 eythian there we go, now it's passed QA :)
02:56 rangi :)
02:56 * eythian uses power for good
02:56 eythian also, new packages from master published
03:12 eythian there are _far_ too many warnings coming out of Auth.pm
03:15 eythian hmm, might just be our version that has these issues. Probably needs a cleanup.
03:37 mtompset There. It took all day, but I have a test written. YAY!
03:39 eythian that's OK, the next one will only take half a day :D
03:41 mtompset I'll stop trying to add functionality. That will make writing the tests easier. :P
03:41 dcook Yeah, I wrote a test a while ago and now I figure I'll just wait until I'm done before revising that test..
03:42 eythian write the test first, and then write the code to stop it failing.
03:42 mtompset eythian: sometimes it's more fun to code on the fly.
03:42 dcook Yeah, I like that idea in theory
03:42 dcook But you don't know how your code is going to evolve over time
03:42 eythian it feels a lot slower, but you actually end up saving a lot of time.
03:43 eythian dcook: then you haven't properly specified it :)
03:43 dcook hehe
03:43 dcook Yeah, that's the thought in the back of my mind...
03:43 dcook Feels a bit late for that now though
03:43 mtompset sometimes the specification is a sentence from the user with so much running space. :)
03:43 eythian then you need to come up with the detail yourself. Which, at the level of code, you probably should be doing anyway.
03:47 mtompset eythian: It is slower. Writing the test takes as much time as the debugging, which wouldn't go any faster if the test was written first. Writing the specification first, then the tests, then the code only serves to find the flaw in the specifications, which revises the tests and then the code, and the cycle may repeat multiple times.
03:48 jcamins mtompset: I have never found that to be the case.
03:48 mtompset Sadly, I have.
03:48 jcamins Fastest development is always test first.
03:48 jcamins The larger the development, the more dramatic the difference.
03:48 eythian Writing the test is faster than the debugging, leads to code structured in a way that lends itself to being diagnosed in small units, and fewer iterations of "have I fixed it yet?"
03:49 eythian whereas if you write the tests after, you end up refactoring code to be testable which produces a better design, but is omething you should have done up-front.
03:49 jcamins eythian: on the other hand, more iterations of "gosh, that was dumb. Better fix it" Unlike the other way, where it's just one big "OMGOMGOMG MUST FIX ALL THE THINGS."
03:50 mtompset @quote add "jcamins: ... OMGOMGOMG MUST FIX ALL THE THINGS."
03:50 huginn` mtompset: The operation succeeded. Quote #278 added.
03:50 eythian well yes, though at least you have a handy tool that tells you how much dumb you have left to fix :)
03:51 mtompset Out of context quotes are the best for random quoting. :)
03:51 jcamins And then there are the unit tests that all pass, except for when you use the test harness in the makefile.
03:52 mtompset @quote random
03:52 huginn` mtompset: Quote #63: "<jwagner> But no one expects the Spammish Inquisition!" (added by jdavidb at 01:50 PM, March 01, 2010)
03:53 mtompset test harness in a makefile?
03:53 jcamins We use prove.
03:53 jcamins However, I figured out the problem. Sort of.
03:54 jcamins And it has nothing to do with Koha.
03:56 mtompset Hmmm... nearing midnight.
03:57 mtompset I may turn into a pumpkin.
03:57 mtompset However, it was a lovely time at the writing a test ball. :)
04:04 * mtompset goes poof.
04:04 mtompset Have a great day, #koha.
04:09 eythian http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-media/product-gallery/B004XXMUCQ/ref=cm_ciu_pdp_images_0?ie=UTF8&index=0
06:01 lost_and_unfound greetings all
06:03 lost_and_unfound I know that version 3.0.0 is ancient, however, I am trying to understand the setup of koha. Can I just run the zebra rebuilding without any implications / side effects: http://pastie.org/private/gusyfgrtpx8rndhwyspuqg#
06:05 cait lost_and_unfound: you already asked that yesterday i think ;)
06:06 lost_and_unfound I did, but i was AFK and my chat history does not go back that far :/
06:06 lost_and_unfound sorry for the repeat
06:06 cait hm your etc/koha is interesting
06:07 cait are there really running multiple kohas on that machine?
06:07 lost_and_unfound cait, this whole setup is interesting
06:07 lost_and_unfound yip
06:07 lost_and_unfound from from port 8080 to 8090
06:07 lost_and_unfound differnt MySQL db for each instance
06:08 cait i am not sure what advice to give you
06:08 cait i am not a system administrator
06:08 lost_and_unfound http://pastie.org/private/dqbrk73yffie8knwxhowbq
06:09 lost_and_unfound ^^ all the db's running
06:09 cait you will want to make sure you run the rebuild for the right instance
06:09 cait you can't run it for all of them at once I don't think - there should be separated indexes
06:09 cait andfor each the environment variables are a bit different - because pointing to the conf file
06:10 cait do you know who set your Koha up?
06:10 lost_and_unfound ok, but in the paste i mention that the zebra log files are old (thing 2008) and I do not see a zebra instance running, just the port 9999
06:10 cait he even changed the staff css it looks like :)
06:11 cait yeah, i have no idea about that :(
06:11 lost_and_unfound this is one of those "a guy work on in and left the company 3 years ago, no one touched it until now"-scenarios
06:11 cait if it's 3.0 it could be running without zebra even
06:11 cait oh
06:11 cait that's something you could check i guess
06:11 * lost_and_unfound is all ears
06:11 cait in 3.0 there was still a nozebra option
06:12 cait it's in administration system preferences.... search for zebra
06:12 cait it's not something that should be switched after installation, because needs setup, but would be intersting to see what it's set to
06:14 lost_and_unfound looking to see what I can find
06:16 lost_and_unfound cait, http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8670/5gvi.png
06:17 cait those are only the local use ones
06:17 cait i think it should be in search maybe
06:17 cait that or Admin
06:17 cait you can use the search on top, look for nozebra
06:20 lost_and_unfound ok... http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5001/bxl0.png
06:20 lost_and_unfound seemed to have found something
06:24 lost_and_unfound so let me see if I understand this correct. In the 'About' section it shows that the zebra utility is availble ( http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/3516/6oci.png ), however in the settings, the zebra is not used. So even if I do a rebuild it will have no effect on the current issue.
06:26 cait it looks like it
06:26 cait and it explains the missing setup for zebra
06:28 cait installing zebra with 3.0 and multiple instances (not quite a standard setup) might have proven to hard
06:28 cait so nozebra was used - which will use the mysql database for searching
06:28 cait that would be my guess
06:28 lost_and_unfound so yesterday I also did a mysqlcheck on the tables and found some tables needed to be repaired, I have also completed that
06:29 * magnuse waves
06:29 cait i think there is also a script to rebuild with using nozebra
06:29 wahanui okay, cait.
06:29 cait but i have never used such an installation
06:29 cait good morning magnuse
06:30 cait your problem can also have other sources i think
06:30 cait for example a misconfiguratoin in the marc frameworks
06:30 magnuse there is a rebuild_nozebra.pl script
06:30 cait you could try running the bibliographic framework test that is under administration
06:30 magnuse ...in 3.0.x
06:31 cait it could show you some more obvious problems
06:33 lost_and_unfound I am trying to find a pattern... I have done 3 word searches. 1.) law [valid], 2.)lawsa [error], 3.) notavalidsearch [invalid]. only using the "lawsa" word generates the error, the "law" and "notavalidsearch" word return data and no data respectively
06:33 cait nozebra might be a bit of a blind spot for most people here
06:33 cait it's been deprecated for ages now and has been removed since
06:35 lost_and_unfound I will run the framework test and see what is the results
06:38 cait have to go
06:38 cait bbl
06:39 lost_and_unfound thanks very much for the help cait
06:39 lost_and_unfound http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/9662/g4z8.png
06:51 gaetan_B hello
06:57 reiveune hello
07:09 paxed i'm guessing the install process is supposed to create the db schema at some point. koha no worky for me, because for some reason it didn't...
07:21 magnuse paxed: that is part of the web based installer - did you get that far?
07:25 lost_and_unfound when a koha deployment works with 'NoZebra' and you do a keyword or title search in the web interface, which MySQL table/field does it preform the search on?
07:25 kivilahtio BTW paxed is our head programmer here in Joensuu, Finland. And to our amazement installing Koha from source is a BIT difficult. Contradicting installation instructions don't help either.
07:26 * dcook is wondering why kivilahtio and paxed are installing from source and not Deb packages
07:27 kivilahtio dcook: paxed wanted to vecause he is hard-core. I think it has to do with git and making code commits possible?
07:27 rangi you can still do that with packages
07:27 kivilahtio rangi: relly?
07:27 kivilahtio rangi: now that awesome
07:27 rangi yup install with packages
07:27 magnuse kivilahtio, paxed: install on debian and use the packages
07:27 rangi koha-create
07:27 wahanui i heard koha-create was part of the package :)
07:28 rangi then just change your koha-conf.xml and corresponding apache conf
07:28 rangi to point to your git checkout instead
07:28 magnuse or at least run your live install off the packages and use a git/dev install for development/testing
07:28 kivilahtio wahanui: so true
07:28 wahanui kivilahtio: huh?
07:28 rangi course running git on a production server is mental
07:28 magnuse ah, never mind me, listen to rangi instead
07:28 rangi so dont do that
07:29 * magnuse used to do that, but stopped doing it a while ago
07:29 * rangi assumed you were talking about a dev install
07:29 kivilahtio rangi: dev install indeed
07:29 rangi there is even a script that will gitify a package installation for you
07:29 dcook https://github.com/mkfifo/koha-gitify
07:29 magnuse gitify?
07:29 wahanui somebody said gitify was at https://github.com/mkfifo/koha-gitify
07:29 * dcook swears that was coincidental timing
07:30 magnuse hehe
07:30 kivilahtio rangi: ok, paxed will be happy to read these after he returns from lunch
07:30 * dcook is a big fan of gitify
07:30 kivilahtio gitification sounds epic
07:36 lost_and_unfound With NoZebra enabled, what table/field in MySQL is used when doing a search? (koha 3.0.0)
07:47 magnuse lost_and_unfound: probably the biblio and biblioitems tables, at least (just guessing, though)
07:47 paxed magnuse: no, i never got that far - no idea why localhost:8080 doesn't answer.
07:48 magnuse paxed: did you add "Listen 8080" to the apache config?
07:49 dcook ^^
07:49 magnuse e.g. /etc/apache2/ports.conf or something like that
07:49 dcook Followed by a restart, I believe
07:49 magnuse or reload
07:49 paxed hm. i was sure i did that, but that must've been one of the previous VMs ...
07:49 paxed blah
07:49 magnuse easy to forget
07:50 magnuse "This must be filled in correctly for RSS, unAPI, and search plugins to work" - what on earth are "search plugins"?
07:51 dcook Hmm
07:52 dcook magnuse: What's that description attached to?
07:52 dcook I think I've wondered the same thing before
07:54 paxed why is the "Listen 8080" missing from INSTALL?
07:54 dcook It could be that someone forgot to add it
07:55 paxed also the 1.2 optional foreign lang install won't work as-is.
07:56 magnuse dcook: some syspref, let me find it...
07:56 dcook paxed: I don't do much multilingual stuff myself, so I don't have a ready answer for you there. What's "1.2 optional foreign lang install"?
07:57 magnuse dcook: it's the OPACBaseURL syspref
07:57 gaetan_B magnuse: just discovered your marc must die website !
07:57 gaetan_B pretty awesome !
07:57 gaetan_B :D
07:57 rangi gaetan_B: have you seen my slide?
07:57 paxed dcook: a part in INSTALL-file.
07:57 gaetan_B rangi: hmmm no
07:57 gaetan_B i was looking at bug 10726
07:57 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10726 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, sonia.lemaire, Needs Signoff , Default Unimarc framework in accordance with new edition of the Unimarc manual
07:57 gaetan_B and crying
07:57 dcook magnuse: Mmm, that's why is sounded familiar
07:57 gaetan_B when i saw the link
07:58 gaetan_B rangi: what slide ?
07:58 rangi gaetan_B: http://slid.es/ranginui/oyster
07:58 rangi hit the right arrow once
07:58 rangi :)
07:58 rangi if you hit it again, you see the code we can use to escape our MARC prison
07:59 cjh hahaha
07:59 * magnuse hopes to submit a patch for bug 10788 this week
07:59 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10788 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, magnus, NEW , Add a Linked Data/RDF browser to the OPAC
07:59 rangi awesome
07:59 dcook magnuse++
08:00 gaetan_B rangi: ah at first i thought it had to do with the reading app called oyster
08:00 magnuse hm, might be wise to save the ++ for when i have actually done it :-)
08:00 dcook It's encouragement ;)
08:00 magnuse rangi: do you think you will get your marc2rdf into 3.14?
08:00 dcook gaetan_B: That was my first thought too. Similar timing.
08:01 lost_and_unfound magnuse, thanks, I ran a rebuild_nozebra.pl and it appears to have fixed the issue
08:01 gaetan_B when i saw it i thought really hard "how nice it would be if we didn't have to spend time thinking of ways of doing interesting things like clustering with our data, instead of pulling our hair out thinking of ways marking marc work"
08:01 magnuse gaetan_B: thanks, but marc-must-die.info has been very inactive for a long time now...
08:01 magnuse lost_and_unfound: yay!
08:02 rangi gaetan_B: exactly
08:02 gaetan_B it's ok magnuse, its existence is still reassuring :)
08:02 rangi gaetan_B: instead of throwing more money down a hole with RDA, why not do something actually useful for people who use a library
08:02 jenkins_koha Starting build #351 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
08:03 cjh go jenkins go
08:03 gaetan_B rangi: oh my god don't even talk to me about rda
08:03 gaetan_B :D
08:03 * gaetan_B puts his fingers in his ears and starts singing loudly
08:03 dcook hehe
08:03 rangi im covering this in my talk at kohacone
08:03 rangi -e
08:03 rangi well one of my talks
08:03 dcook kohacone!
08:03 rangi hehe
08:03 magnuse rangi++
08:03 dcook It sounds delicious...
08:04 gaetan_B i wrote a very confiused sentence at (10:01:11) , i meant we should be doing clustering of course, but i guess that was clear
08:04 gaetan_B meanwhile
08:04 rangi the 'Yes, but what have you done for me lately' one
08:04 magnuse @quote add <rangi> instead of throwing more money down a hole with RDA, why not do something actually useful for people who use a library
08:04 huginn` magnuse: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
08:04 * dcook thinks MJ should have a Koha workshop at Cafe Koha in London : http://www.cafekoha.com/
08:04 gaetan_B i do have to thing of a way of pushing this bug forward, or we will have to suffer working on the frameworks for every customer to get this done
08:05 * dcook suspects you might have to suffer anyway
08:05 dcook Well, not you necessarily
08:05 dcook But someone
08:06 cjh dibs not.
08:08 magnuse bleargh, why can i never figure out how to identify...
08:08 * dcook always figured it was a huginn specific thing
08:11 * magnuse discovers http://wiki.perlrdf.org/view/Main_Page
08:15 lost_and_unfound thanks for all the help.
08:15 * lost_and_unfound waves goodbye
08:20 paxed argh. i guess installing to /root/koha-dev as suggested by Makefile.PL wasn't such a good idea.
08:21 rangi well running perl Makefile.PL as root isnt a good idea
08:21 magnuse huh, does Makefile.PL suggest that?
08:21 magnuse ah...
08:22 paxed well, i'm in a VM which has nothing else on it.
08:22 paxed but really, it should suggest a path that's not world-readable at least.
08:22 paxed shouldn't*
08:23 rangi its going to suggest your homedir, since you are root, thats /root
08:23 rangi dont run makefiles as root
08:23 rangi unless you want stuff owned by root
08:31 magnuse kia ora kf
08:31 * dcook waves to kf
08:35 kf dcook: go to bed! ;)
08:35 kf kia ora
08:36 dcook Wha?
08:36 dcook It's only 6:36pm!
08:36 dcook I shouldn't be at work but I shouldn't be in bed :p
08:37 dcook Just doing some last minute changes to a new template...and thinking there has to be a better way..
08:40 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.8.x build #351: SUCCESS in 37 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/351/
08:40 jenkins_koha * Owen Leonard: Bug 10516 - Improve titles, breadcrumbs, and confirmation messages for Z39.50 server adds and updates
08:40 jenkins_koha * Katrin Fischer: Bug 10516 - Follow up - Fixing capitalization
08:40 jenkins_koha * Mirko Tietgen: Bug 10621: use correct from-address for subscription alert emails
08:40 jenkins_koha * Kenza Zaki: Bug 10644: add unit tests for ClassSource.pm
08:40 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10516 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Stable , Improve titles, breadcrumbs, and confirmation messages for Z39.50 server adds and updates
08:40 jenkins_koha * Galen Charlton: Bug 10644: fix typos in test descriptions
08:40 jenkins_koha * root: Bug 10643: fix inappropriate uses of $sth->finish() in C4::ClassSource.pm
08:40 jenkins_koha * Galen Charlton: Bug 10644: (follow-up) remove inadvertant dependence on Perl 5.14
08:40 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10621 normal, P5 - low, ---, mirko, Pushed to Stable , Subscription alert emails have wrong from-address
08:40 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10644 normal, P5 - low, ---, kenza.zaki, Pushed to Stable , C4::ClassSource.pm needs unit tests
08:40 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10643 normal, P5 - low, ---, kenza.zaki, Pushed to Stable , Inappropriate uses of $sth->finish() in C4::ClassSource.pm
08:56 paxed looks like koha beats me. i can't even successfully install it.
08:58 kf how did you try to install it?
08:59 kf without more information we can't help
09:00 paxed by following the INSTALL* files. getting 403 when i go to localhost:8080
09:01 kf paxed: which Install files? whch version? which OS? :)
09:01 kf and did someone point you to packages?
09:01 kf packages?
09:01 wahanui it has been said that packages is at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Debian
09:05 paxed any of the INSTALL files. piecing things together, as every one of them seems to have slightly different instructions. git master. debian
09:06 magnuse well, INSTALL.debian should be the one to use then
09:07 kf yes, you first have to determine what you want to do
09:07 rangi id still do it with packages, then gitify it
09:07 kf there are different ways to install koha for different things
09:07 kf yeah, that's the easiest
09:07 rangi i mean i could go out and hunt my own food, but i prefer to buy it packaged
09:07 magnuse lol
09:08 dcook hehe
09:08 dcook Well said, rangi.
09:08 dcook Although I don't think gitify takes into account Zebra differences
09:09 paxed uh-huh. and when/if we'll start using koha, and i'd need to develop something to/for it, i'm sure you'll appreciate me doing patches against a released version.
09:09 dcook paxed: That's what gitify is for
09:09 dcook It allows you to have a package instance pointing at a git repository
09:09 dcook Your "kohaclone"
09:09 kf and you would not use your production installation for that :)
09:09 dcook ^^
09:09 kf we roll our own packages now as some others do
09:10 rangi and you do patches against master, not a released version
09:10 kf also that yep
09:10 magnuse http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Building_Debian_Packages_-_The_Easy_Way
09:10 dcook I think wizzyrea did a Debian package install in 20 minutes the other day
09:11 dcook I think my last one was 30 minutes because I got sidetracked by food
09:11 rangi but yep, gitify switches to running from git, but you get the benefit of all the package scripts
09:11 kf still have to try out gitify
09:11 kf but i will as soon as i get a free minute :)
09:11 rangi theres even a package built from master about 4 hours ago
09:15 paxed magnuse: yes
09:15 paxed oops. sorry.
09:15 paxed wrong window and tab
09:19 paxed so, you all are suggesting there's no need to follow the install process at all, and go with the packages + gitify instead?
09:21 dcook The packages have their own install process, but it's heaps easier
09:21 dcook http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_3.x_on_Debian_Squeeze
09:21 dcook Works on Wheezy too
09:22 dcook If you get stumped, people are here to help :)
09:22 dcook When I say process, I mean a handful of steps
11:39 drojf hi #koha
11:42 drojf any problems in 3.12 that should keep me from upgrading?
11:45 drojf woah, what happened to the website? :)
11:54 magnuse moin drojf
11:54 drojf hi magnuse
11:55 magnuse my customers have been using 3.12.x since 3.12.1 without any complaints (but then they are only using core functions, like circ and cataloguing)
11:55 magnuse drojf: wizzyrea got inspired, i think :-) pretty nice, eh?
11:55 drojf nice. 3.12 it is :)
11:56 drojf i'll also need to apply less patches manually i think
12:19 oleonard Hi #koha
12:30 oleonard I finally had an opportunity to install Koha from the packages, and I'm sold.
12:31 oleonard However, I came away wondering why the Debian and Ubuntu package installation instructions are different.
12:34 drojf i just learned you can't checkout a tag that git does not know about because you should rebase once in a while. who would have thought of that. ;)
12:35 drojf oleonard: my impression is that the debian instructions are all commands you need for the installation if you have any idea of a debian-based system, ubuntu instructions are kind of a really verbose version of that. but i have not looked at the ubuntu instructions in a while
12:37 oleonard I think that's right. I followed the Ubuntu package installation instructions while installing on Debian and found everything to work.
12:37 oleonard ...while the Debian instructions say things like, "Oh, and you might want to install mysql or whatever."
12:38 drojf i used the debian instructions in installation workshops with people that never used linux (at least some of them). i explained a lot about every step though
12:39 drojf so maybe i made an on-the-fly ubuntu version out of it ;)
12:39 kivilahtio drojf: I can say the packages worked for me using the Ubuntu-guide
12:40 kivilahtio drojf: You could say "I hit the ground running"
12:42 drojf maybe it would make sense to label them both package instructions then without any hint to a distribution
12:42 drojf ?
12:43 kivilahtio drojf: nevermind that :)
12:46 tcohen drojf: the ubuntu instructions are qa-ed on 12.04
12:47 drojf oleonard: the debian version has the option to install mysql on the same server as opposed to using an external database, which makes sense i think
12:47 tcohen they *should* be quite similar
12:47 tcohen morning #koha
12:47 drojf hi tcohen
12:47 kivilahtio hi tcohen!
12:53 oleonard Koha already has a problem of too many installation guides. If the package installation guides are different only in their verbosity I would think they should not be labeled as specific to different distros
12:56 oleonard Opinionator away!
12:56 * oleonard flies off
12:56 * oleonard flies back
12:56 oleonard And everyone should like the things I like.
12:56 * oleonard flies off again
12:57 tcohen i belive we need to think of the target people for those instructions
12:57 drojf lol
12:57 tcohen and as long as those are maintained...
12:57 drojf are they?
12:57 tcohen drojf: yes
12:59 drojf who is maintainer of the "debian" instructions?
12:59 tcohen not me :-D
13:00 tcohen and they are certaintly outdated
13:00 drojf i thought so, that is why i asked :P
13:02 jcamins No one really maintains them so far as I am aware.
13:02 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
13:03 tcohen hi mtompset
13:03 mtompset Greetings, tcohen. :)
13:04 drojf 25042 bytes sent in 0.00 secs (15198.9 kB/s)
13:04 drojf i think that is a lie
13:04 kivilahtio can I ask a question about Koha error recovery?
13:04 tcohen it was buffered
13:05 mtompset kivilahtio: You can ask anything, but there's no guarantee anyone in the channel at any given time knows the answer. :)
13:05 drojf ah, that was the wrong .deb. damn you, 'koha' not 'koha-common'!
13:05 jcamins drojf: that's okay, it took zero seconds to download.
13:05 * mtompset laughs, "I've made the same kind of mistake before, drojf."
13:05 drojf jcamins: true, could have been worse :D
13:06 drojf much worse if i would have started installing it
13:06 kivilahtio In some occasions I am working with some part of Koha, first time it was with "serials", now it was with "news". I make an action, like save a subscription or save a edited news article. I expect Koha to save my changes, but actually Koha stops responding, and then the browser says "This webpage is not available" for ANY Koha page. After few minutes the problem disappears and Koha continues to perate normally.
13:06 mtompset kivilahtio: So, what is your question? Again, I don't promise anything.
13:07 kivilahtio is this maybe apache2 related?
13:07 kivilahtio uncertain if OPAC is hindered o that changes are committed to DB
13:07 kivilahtio WHat happens that makes Koha resume operations after a error scenario?
13:08 mtompset Sounds proxy-ish in nature to me, but I don't know.
13:08 kivilahtio no apache errors in log
13:08 jcamins kivilahtio: unlike Evergreen, Koha doesn't actually have any server state if you're using a "normal" installation.
13:09 jcamins That sounds like a network issue.
13:09 kivilahtio running Ubuntu 12.04 JeOS virtual server on linuxmint libvirt KVM virtual host
13:09 kivilahtio Koha ports forwarded and accessing from a remote network
13:09 mtompset kivilahtio: Why are you virtualizing Ubuntu on Mint?
13:09 kivilahtio mtompset: For the encapsulation benefits virtualization provides
13:10 kivilahtio mtompset: secure testing environment, easier performance monitoring
13:10 mtompset Yes, but you can actually install directly to Mint.
13:10 kivilahtio I know
13:11 kivilahtio but we will be running things in virtual containers
13:11 mtompset How much memory did you give your VM?
13:11 kivilahtio mtompset: we have had some issues with Evergreen in virtual containers, but the problem has vanished. Possibly related to our virtual framework... hmm
13:11 kivilahtio 4GB
13:12 mtompset Okay, that isn't the issue. :)
13:12 kivilahtio 2x 3.8 GHz core
13:12 kivilahtio running on SSD :D
13:12 mtompset I've virtualized Koha in a 512MB environment, and it is truly painful.
13:12 mtompset It would generally work, but take forever, and sometimes have timeouts.
13:13 mtompset But behind the scenes, if I watched the processes, I could see it was still working.
13:13 kivilahtio mtompset: but the virtio network drivers are unoptimized. I think that might be the issue. I'll try to migrate on our real production cluster.
13:13 jcamins The fact that everything stops responding after a glitch and there is nothing in the Apache logs tells me that you need to look outside Koha for the problem.
13:13 kivilahtio jcamins: roger that
13:14 tcohen probably an I/O bottleneck kivilahtio
13:14 kivilahtio tcohen: on SSD?
13:14 * mtompset nods in agreement.
13:14 mtompset Oops... with tcohen and jcamins.
13:14 kivilahtio :)
13:14 kivilahtio it propably is networking related
13:15 tcohen try iotop on a lock scenario
13:15 mtompset I/O bottlenecks are not limited to disk, but networking, your VM environment.
13:15 mtompset (and others)
13:15 kivilahtio wow! iotop is kewl, how come I never knew this existed
13:16 mtompset I can virtualize Masters of Orion II in VirtualBox or DosBox. There is definitely a speed issue based on how I virutalize. :)
13:17 jcamins mtompset: KVM doesn't emulate the CPU.
13:18 kivilahtio jcamins: yup, it's pretty fast
13:18 * druthb bounces into the room, and flops into her beanbag chair.
13:19 mtompset You forgot to flash the ring, druthb. :P
13:19 jcamins Though, having said that, I have had problems with port forwarding with every single virtualization technology I have tried.
13:19 jcamins VirtualBox, KVM, LXC.
13:19 kivilahtio jcamins: I am happy to hear it is no because of my incompetence :)
13:19 jcamins kivilahtio: the two aren't mutually exclusive. I'm not really a sysadmin.
13:19 jcamins Sorry. ;)
13:20 * druthb waves her arm around, flashing her engagement ring
13:20 kivilahtio I was looking into LXC but then decided to take the easy, and presumably more reliable way out, KVM
13:20 jcamins What I ended up doing with LXC was proxying with nginx.
13:23 kivilahtio jcamins: sounds like a good idea.
13:23 kivilahtio native access to eth0 make the difference
13:24 kivilahtio tho there is not much non-native with KVM either, when you configure proper drivers
13:24 tcohen either KVM or Xen are mature
13:24 kivilahtio tcohen: we had INSANE issues with Xen + Evergreen
13:24 kivilahtio like ballistic bombastic fantastic. Tho we used the service provided by our IT-support company, so no idea really what they did and on what hardware
13:25 jcamins That surprises me. I thought that ESI used Xen.
13:25 kivilahtio jcamins: those issues were most likely network-related
13:25 kivilahtio no such issues on our own virtualized hardware
13:26 kivilahtio virtual guests failing to stop. No way to reboot other than reinstall
13:26 kivilahtio sounds incredible to me, and I guess they were doing something wrong. Hence our own hardware
13:27 tcohen we use Xen on a 200+ virtual servers infrastructure
13:27 tcohen and are moving to OpenStack+KVM flawlessly
13:28 tcohen there are really a lot of little tricks to keep in mind so everything works flawlessly
13:29 kivilahtio tcohen: I can imagine that. I am no sysadmin either
13:29 kivilahtio tcohen: But luckily our obstacles are smaller
13:30 tcohen i test the 3.12.x branch using VirtualBox on a Core2Duo with 4GB RAM
13:30 tcohen i mean, it works
13:31 mtompset jcamins: That -> vs :: thing I mentioned last night, what would you call it? I'm going to file a bug report.
13:31 jcamins "Incorrect calling convention"
13:32 mtompset Something more vulgar was coming to my mind. :)
13:32 kivilahtio btw setting the "creation_date" in "news -> edit/create" displays 02/00/0 when I set the date to 08/11/1940, should I file a bug?
13:35 mtompset "Incorrect calling conventions accessing C4::Context"?
13:35 jcamins That works.
13:35 jcamins kivilahtio: yes.
13:35 kivilahtio mysql database value is "opac_news.timestamp = 0000-00-00 00:00:00"
13:35 kivilahtio O-ou, looks like trouble
13:36 jcamins kivilahtio: yeah, 02/00/0 is the "uh-oh there is no valid date."
13:37 oleonard I can confirm in master
13:37 kivilahtio I mean this is really insignificant issue for us. I just tested this news thing with some old war-time speeches.
13:38 kivilahtio but I'll file it
13:42 drojf when i get 3.12.04 from git and build a package, does it come with the right translation files or do i have to download and update them manually?
13:44 jcamins drojf: if you check out the tag, it has the files.
13:44 drojf yay! magic :)
13:45 mtompset Well, if we are playing the "let's compare testing environments" game. I virtualize Koha under Ubuntu with 2GB RAM, 32GB Drive space using VirtualBox on a 32GB RAM Windows 7 Ultimate Box running an i7-3770. :P
13:47 mtompset Though, if you want to hear about virtualization problems... vserver. Enough said.
13:50 * mtompset cries about the pains our QA and production server have because the virtualization technology is so archaic.
13:55 kivilahtio mtompset: you are using win7... I heard Win7 is good for... well... surfing the net ;) But 32GB RAM is pretty nice :D how do you spend it all?
13:55 drojf friends don't let friends surf the web with win7 :P
13:55 jcamins I have VMs of Windows XP, Windows 7, and Windows 8.
13:56 jcamins And Windows Server 2012.
13:56 mtompset I sometimes run many VMs. That was the point of the memory.
13:56 jcamins Every time I have to boot one, a part of me dies.
13:56 kivilahtio drojf: ++
14:01 mtompset There is a time and place for everything: even Windows 7. :P
14:09 druthb win7 is *way* better than Vista. Turn off the desktop gadgetry, and install Chrome, and you almost have a decent machine.
14:12 jcamins druthb: yeah... fastest way to get an Ubuntu or Mint CD!
14:13 druthb I would throw Windows overboard, but there are a couple of games I have that just *won't* run in Wine.
14:14 mtompset Some people don't have time to figure out how to configure Wine either.
14:15 kivilahtio Quite frankly I find Win7 to be an excellent entertainment platform. I have it back home after getting bored to the lack of availability of Linux games.
14:15 * jcamins isn't quite sure of what this thing of which you speak is.
14:15 kivilahtio I don't like the thing one bit but I don't see an alternative for my current lifestyle
14:16 mtompset Let's not call windows-use a lifestyle. :P
14:16 kivilahtio jcamins: hardware support for more "exotic" sound cards for ex
14:16 jcamins kivilahtio: I meant "game." :P
14:16 kivilahtio mtompset: :)
14:19 mtompset You can't push back to @_ what you have shift'd off, right?
14:20 jcamins mtompset: what are you trying to do?
14:20 mtompset something the wrong way... :P -- best way to check for an object?
14:20 jcamins What are you trying to do?
14:21 mtompset :: vs -> check.
14:21 jcamins I think you need to rethink what you're trying to do.
14:22 mtompset Let's put it this way... I saw some code that just added a shift.
14:22 mtompset That's just plain wrong.
14:22 jcamins Why?
14:22 jcamins I think maybe you need to take a step back and figure out what you're trying to do.
14:22 mtompset What if you miss fixing a reference?
14:23 jcamins Then it's still broken.
14:23 mtompset No, it would have worked (because it was wrong before), but now is broken (because it is right now)
14:24 jcamins Half the calls are currently wrong. Half are write.
14:24 mtompset functions takes ::, have two calls :: and ->. One is broken. function takes ->, other one is now broken.
14:25 mtompset So, checking if you should shift, keep code that was working still working, even though it should be fixed.
14:26 mtompset You don't break what is working.
14:26 jcamins I have no objection to keeping it working when called incorrectly, but you still need to think about your approach, and answer the question "is there a way to do this that will not result in obtuse code"?
14:27 mtompset right, which is why "shift" is not the best answer.
14:27 jcamins s/"\?/?"/
14:27 mtompset You need to check if the first parameter is an object.
14:28 jcamins Yes! That is *exactly* what you need to do.
14:29 jcamins The sentence you just said includes the answer to your question.
14:31 kf tcohen: hm tanslate.koha-community.org is quite slow - all translators busy?
14:31 mtompset Yes, which is why I changed my question to how to change for an object. :P
14:31 mtompset check for an object. :P
14:32 jcamins Except that's not what you want to do, is it?
14:32 mtompset my $self = shift if (<check>);
14:33 jcamins C4::Context isn't actually object-oriented. It's called as C4::Context-> rather than $context->.
14:33 jcamins Which means that you actually want to check for... ?
14:34 jcamins Actually, better way to figure this out: add a new method to C4::Context and use Data::Dumper to inspect the results when you call it the two different ways.
14:35 mtompset well, three ways...
14:35 mtompset try to treat C4::Context as an object.
14:39 Joubu mtompset: not sure to understand what you want (did not follow the discussion). But if it is about static vs class method, I got the same problem short time ago
14:39 Joubu mtompset: first patch from bug 10855
14:39 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10855 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Additional fields for subscriptions
14:41 Joubu +sub all {
14:41 Joubu + my ( $class, $args ) = @_;
14:41 Joubu + die "BAD CALL: Don't use fetch_all_values as a static method"
14:41 Joubu + if ref $class and UNIVERSAL::can($class,'can');
14:41 Joubu (Except the bad c/p) Here I did want a call like $obj->all. only Class::all is allowed
14:41 Joubu s/did/didn't
14:41 mtompset C4::Context::set_userenv vs. C4::Context->set_userenv vs. $obj=C4::Context->new; $obj->set_userenv
14:47 kivilahtio speaking of code. Are you using some proper debuggers for your work? Like Eclipse?
14:48 kivilahtio I haven't looked at integrating a debugger to Koha yet
14:48 jcamins kivilahtio: just warn and nerves of steel.
14:48 kivilahtio And quite frnakly not sure how we ll debugging CGI-scripts work, after plack
14:49 kivilahtio yeah, atlest with Koha you don't have to restart Evergreen services to make your code changes happen
14:49 kivilahtio not that I have anything against plack
14:49 kivilahtio I just have a gut feeling that there has to be a apache2 script debugger. Atleast Komodo IDE should have one
14:50 jcamins I am sure there is. I just don't use it.
14:50 mtompset GAH! That is a horribly huge object.
14:50 kivilahtio mtompset: I guess it is properly documented somewhere?
14:50 mtompset it? what?
14:50 wahanui hmmm... it is changing a default behaviour
14:51 mtompset wahanui: forget it
14:51 wahanui mtompset: I forgot it
14:51 kf gmcharlt++
14:51 kivilahtio mtompset: C4::Context
14:51 wahanui it has been said that C4::Context is not very efficient, but the bigger issue is the overall load time.
14:52 mtompset Hmmm... mostly?
14:52 mtompset Perl POD stuff in the code.
14:53 kivilahtio http://docs.activestate.com/komodo/7.0/debugperl.html
14:54 kivilahtio Komodo IDE is only 300€ but it is the best Perl Ide out there. Definetely has been a lot of help when doing my data migration scripts
14:54 kivilahtio 300€ a year :D
14:55 kivilahtio http://www.epic-ide.org/guide/ch06s02.php
14:55 kivilahtio Also Eclipse EPIC seems to have some support for CGI debugging
14:59 kf kivilahtio: that's a lot
15:01 kivilahtio kf: So true, but I had to buy it for the data migration work. Impossible to trace issues in huge datasets without a proper compiler. Eclipse started freezing and crashing under large datasets, like arrays and hashes
15:01 kivilahtio ..."without a proper debugger".
15:02 mtompset jcamins: Actually 6 test cases... with and without parameters passed.
15:02 mtompset I believe I have the monstrosity figured out for my check.
15:02 kivilahtio anyway time for me to go home
15:02 mtompset Take care. :)
15:02 kivilahtio thanks for being here #Koha!
15:02 * druthb perks at "data migration work" and notes that a million-plus bib library can be converted using plain ol' perl, with some CPAN helpers. Been there, done that.
15:03 mtompset data migration work? where?
15:03 kivilahtio here
15:03 kivilahtio we have a Ingres DB, which has like 300+ tables, each labeled with 8 characters
15:03 druthb mtompset: My last job was as a migration specialist for ByWater.
15:04 kivilahtio each colum nlabeledwith 8 characters. Nad I have been trying to figure out our data from there for a loooong long time.
15:04 druthb ew. Messy.
15:04 kivilahtio 0 help from our current ILS provider and 0 help from our municipal department
15:04 mtompset Ah... I wasn't paying attention, I was writing tests BEFORE coding... In this case, it was really necessary.
15:04 kivilahtio municipal IT-support company which administers this server"
15:05 gaetan_B bye !
15:05 kivilahtio well I am not going to get started about the challenges at the start of this project :D
15:06 kivilahtio sleep tight
15:06 mtompset And here is the one liner that I believe I will use:
15:06 mtompset my $self = shift @_ if ($_[0] && ($_[0] eq 'C4::Context' || $_[0] eq 'C4::Context'));
15:07 kivilahtio mtompset: Remeber to DOCUMENT properly!
15:07 mtompset Oops. ref()
15:07 reiveune bye
15:07 mtompset my $self = shift @_ if ($_[0] && ($_[0] eq 'C4::Context' || ref($_[0]) eq 'C4::Context'));
15:08 jcamins Perfect.
15:08 wahanui i think perfect is the enemy of good
15:10 mtompset The first part of the || catches the C4::Context-> call, the second part catches the $context-> call.
15:19 tweetbot_ [off] @fernando__lopez: "en 8 horas comienza webinar sobre #Koha @KohaILS en #SocialBiblio http://t.co/g26wAankYb"
15:30 drojf and that was a smooth upgrade from 3.8.x to 3.12.4
15:30 drojf koha++
15:33 jenkins_koha Starting build #1423 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
15:35 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 7639: DBRev 3.13.00.020 <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=88d1e1472857a3996e8704c738e89acd2294369d> / Bug 7639: (follow-up) add Unit Tests <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=2f9cf0d29540f64905cb8dce9dfae88ef0962ef7> / Bug 7639: QA Followup - Fix update description <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=30c5d8ddc041a56014965f32134a0e4
15:44 jenkins_koha Starting build #105 for job master_maria (previous build: SUCCESS)
15:44 drojf roadmap?
15:44 drojf roadmap 3.14?
15:44 drojf hm
15:46 slef drojf: the infobot hates you
15:47 drojf slef: obviously :(
15:49 jcamins roadmap for 3.14?
15:49 jcamins schedule for 3.14?
15:49 jcamins release schedule?
15:49 wahanui i guess release schedule is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Proposal_for_RM_3_14_gmcharlt#Timeline
15:51 slef mtompset: what did you want to know about kohacon funding?
15:53 mtompset YAY!
15:53 mtompset Okay...
15:54 mtompset Most of the proposals tend to have no registration fee, so who pays for rooms, who pays for halls, who pays everything, and how are those funds raised?
15:54 jcamins The people staying in the rooms pay for them, and the rest is donated.
15:54 mtompset Seeing as you were involved in hosting one, I thought you'd be able to give some good ideas. :)
15:55 slef our costs were split between sponsors and the co-op
15:55 slef we raised the funds by emailing lots of people and inviting donations on the conference pages
15:55 slef I suspect it's still there... 1mo
15:56 slef http://koha-community.org/kohacon12/sponsors/
15:56 wahanui http://koha-community.org/kohacon12/sponsors/ is the website presentation
15:56 slef no
15:56 slef http://koha-community.org/kohacon12/sponsoring-kohacon12/
15:56 jcamins Oh, that reminds me. I got an e-mail from Nancy.
15:57 slef jcamins: I'm jealous ;)
15:57 * drojf heads home
15:58 slef wahanui: forget http://koha-community.org/kohacon12/sponsors/
15:58 wahanui slef: I forgot http://koha-community.org/kohacon12/sponsors/
15:58 tweetbot_ [off] @KohaILS: "#KohaILS [Koha-patches] [PATCH] Bug 10856 [Follow-up] Improve the previous and next items on… http://t.co/dDIpGqwat6"
15:58 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10856 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Improve the previous and next items on the shelf browser
16:02 mtompset Okay, that's sponsorship, but what about speakers?
16:03 slef What about them?
16:03 jcamins Whoever volunteers and has their talk approved gets to speak.
16:03 jcamins I think this translates to almost everyone who wants to speaking.
16:04 mtompset The hosts approve the speakers (which is generally everyone)?
16:04 slef http://koha-community.org/kohacon12/call-papers/
16:04 wahanui i think http://koha-community.org/kohacon12/call-papers/ is posted, please get submitting if it works for you!
16:04 slef kf wrote that
16:04 slef we had a review board
16:04 slef I think we turned down maybe 2 or 3 talks
16:05 slef and encouraged 2 sets of 2 where the speakers were from the same institutions to merge (which didn't matter in at least one case where they didn't show up)
16:05 oleonard slef: You had someone fail to show up to give the talk they signed up to do?
16:06 slef oleonard: yes
16:06 slef mtompset: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon12_Volunteers may be more useful
16:06 * oleonard hopes they had a good reason
16:06 slef oleonard: bosses refused to fund, late.
16:07 slef [off] actually that's more info than I should give. Sorry.
16:08 slef mtompset: aha, review board was kf thd-away jcamins and me
16:09 slef mtompset: I think rangi Brooke and rafael did a few each
16:09 slef by email as our meeting times didn't work for them
16:10 mtompset So, any other related advice on creating a proposal and hosting?
16:10 jcamins Involve the community.
16:10 mtompset I know my Filipino colleague is dreaming of potentially hosting.
16:10 slef jcamins++
16:11 slef I think if you're running it as a single-track conference, you really want a core team of at least 6, ideally with 2 staying near the venue >1 week ahead.
16:11 slef 6 with 2 super-substitutes.
16:12 slef I'm trying to remember who did what... I was a bit overloaded
16:13 slef Try to avoid paypal if you can. If you must use them, get the money out as fast as you can and don't let them have debit access to your bank account.
16:13 rambutan <unsolicited opinion>We used to pay big dollars for the Sirsi Superconference. I think the community should consider a nominal charge for Kohacon attendance
16:14 slef Yeah, that was one strong feedback... there should be a paid ticket option, as well as the free tickets.
16:14 mtompset So, involving the community would include asking for assistance on the mailing lists?
16:14 rambutan say $100 USD or something to cover the costs of snacks, et al
16:14 mtompset how would a paid ticket option work vs. a free ticket option?
16:14 slef Librarians can buy paid conference tickets, but can't sponsor things.
16:15 rambutan The problem with donations is that some libraries, like ours probably, would simply adopt the attitude that "why pay for something that's free?"
16:15 rambutan No sense of altruism when dealing with tax dollars
16:15 slef mtompset: I'd suggest calling the paid tickets "regular" or similar, maybe with "premium" and calling the free tickets "lite". I don't think I would specify what the difference is (if any).
16:15 rambutan but we understand (again, tnx to Sirsi) conference attendance fees
16:16 slef rambutan: it's worse than that. Some libraries are charitable and cannot donate to non-charity projects.
16:16 rambutan yep, understand that too
16:17 mtompset slef: Wouldn't it be easier to just have a paid ticket option period?
16:17 mtompset Did the speakers speak for free or for some kind of honorarium?
16:18 rambutan I doubt that any modest attendance fees could cover a reasonably number of speaker fees if they're charging customary rates
16:19 slef mtompset: easier, yes, but then you start to exclude people, like the smaller charity and soc.ent. libraries that have been the backbone of koha in England.
16:19 jcamins Free.
16:19 slef mtompset: for free.
16:19 jcamins I feel like if you paid speakers you'd lose all the core speakers.
16:19 mtompset -- with the knowledge that speaking is good PR. :)
16:20 jcamins Core developers, rather.
16:20 slef not sure that's true in my case ;) but I had something to say
16:20 rambutan what is customary where I've done presentations is to waive conference attendance fees for speakers/presenters
16:21 slef rambutan: true, we did that ;)
16:21 mtompset you're probably right. The idea that Koha is FOSS is a little contradictory to expecting payment for speaking. :)
16:21 jcamins slef: granted, I dislike speaking, but I'd be less likely to speak if I were getting paid an insulting amount- the fee provides no benefit to me, but is taking away from potentially doing something useful.
16:22 slef well it depends... we paid the singer
16:22 rambutan I would think that Linus gets paid for speaking? :)
16:22 slef rambutan: I would think that Linus is another big mouth ;)
16:22 * mtompset chuckles.
16:23 rambutan ah, oh, ok
16:23 mtompset Well, it's lunch, and I promised to take my family out for lunch, so I better go.
16:23 mtompset But thank you for some more insights and thoughts on this. I am really hoping my colleague is able to assemble something.
16:24 mtompset Philippines 2015, perhaps? :)
16:25 mtompset And depending on how quickly my wife gets her Canadian Citizenship, maybe I could be there. :)
16:25 mtompset Have a great day, #koha.
16:25 mtompset slef++ # thank you. :)
16:26 slef ttfn...
16:26 slef I wonder what Canadian Citizenship has to do with it
16:28 jcamins slef: she can't leave the country until it's been established.
16:29 slef ow
16:29 rambutan OK, I'm confused. Where is mtompset physically present at the moment?
16:29 slef I hate how we're divide-and-conquered.
16:29 jcamins Canada.
16:29 rambutan ah, ok
16:30 slef http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/User:M._Tompsett
16:30 jcamins And he can't leave.
16:31 jcamins Well- probably he could. But visiting your wife's hometown and leaving her with the kids seems cruel.
16:31 slef hehehehe
16:31 slef I've done that, except no kids.
16:32 jenkins_koha Project master_maria build #105: FAILURE in 47 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/master_maria/105/
16:32 jenkins_koha * Meenakshi.R: Bug 7639: add option to forgive overdue fines when declaring items lost
16:32 jenkins_koha * Kyle M Hall: Bug 7639 - system preference to forgive fines on lost items - QA Followup
16:32 jenkins_koha * Paul Poulain: Bug 7639: tiny QA follow-up
16:32 jenkins_koha * Kyle M Hall: Bug 7639: QA Followup - Fix update description
16:32 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7639 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Pushed to Master , system preference to forgive fines on lost items
16:32 jenkins_koha * Kyle M Hall: Bug 7639: (follow-up) add Unit Tests
16:32 jenkins_koha * Galen Charlton: Bug 7639: DBRev 3.13.00.020
16:37 oleonard slef: divide-and-conquered?
16:37 slef oleonard: split up into countries and told we can't move around freely
16:38 slef or areas, rather than countries
16:38 gmcharlt as opposed to capital, which has nary a bother at most borfders
16:38 slef as there's mutual movement around most of Europe
16:38 oleonard slef: If we didn't have border controls when would the government have opportunities to search our laptops?
16:38 slef oleonard: :,D
16:39 slef (crying and laughing0
16:40 tcohen oleonard: what do the 'Esc' key do for the upload modal? abort upload? nothing?
16:40 oleonard tcohen: Ideally it should be impossible to close the modal while the upload is in progress
16:40 oleonard tcohen: Is it even possible to abort the upload?
16:41 tcohen no
16:41 tcohen was thinking if disabling 'Esc' was the best solution
16:44 jenkins_koha Starting build #106 for job master_maria (previous build: FAILURE -- last SUCCESS #104 20 hr ago)
16:45 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 10897: remove test for module that has become DB-dependent <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=dcbe50cde84505198dffbd1a65d998287f0902dc>
16:45 oleonard tcohen: There is a built in option for that
16:45 tcohen i know
16:46 tcohen what i ws thinking is if we should allow cancelling the upload
17:05 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1423: FAILURE in 1 hr 32 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/1423/
17:05 jenkins_koha * Meenakshi.R: Bug 7639: add option to forgive overdue fines when declaring items lost
17:05 jenkins_koha * Kyle M Hall: Bug 7639 - system preference to forgive fines on lost items - QA Followup
17:05 jenkins_koha * Paul Poulain: Bug 7639: tiny QA follow-up
17:05 jenkins_koha * Kyle M Hall: Bug 7639: QA Followup - Fix update description
17:05 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7639 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Pushed to Master , system preference to forgive fines on lost items
17:05 jenkins_koha * Kyle M Hall: Bug 7639: (follow-up) add Unit Tests
17:05 jenkins_koha * Galen Charlton: Bug 7639: DBRev 3.13.00.020
17:06 jenkins_koha Starting build #1424 for job Koha_master (previous build: FAILURE -- last SUCCESS #1422 20 hr ago)
17:28 jenkins_koha Yippie, build fixed!
17:28 jenkins_koha Project master_maria build #106: FIXED in 43 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/master_maria/106/
17:28 jenkins_koha Galen Charlton: Bug 10897: remove test for module that has become DB-dependent
17:28 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10897 major, P2, ---, gmcharlt, Pushed to Master , t/ILSDI_Services.t is db dependent
17:39 slef @marc 952
17:39 huginn` slef: unknown tag 952
17:39 wahanui The 952 field is used by Koha to store item data in MARC21 and is described at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Holdings_data_fields_%289xx%29
17:42 jcamins Mmm. First fresh bread in months.
17:43 oleonard Just now cool enough jcamins?
17:43 jcamins oleonard: yup.
17:43 jcamins In fact, it's downright chilly this week. Glorious.
17:44 jcamins @wunder 11375
17:44 huginn` jcamins: The current temperature in Glendale, Glendale, New York is 17.5°C (1:42 PM EDT on September 17, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 40%. Dew Point: 4.0°C. Pressure: 30.41 in 1030 hPa (Falling).
17:44 oleonard @wunder 45701
17:44 huginn` oleonard: The current temperature in OHDOT 31-Athens County Garage, Athens, Ohio is 21.7°C (1:01 PM EDT on September 17, 2013). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 52%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 30.31 in 1026 hPa (Rising).
17:44 jcamins At least, chilly compared to what it has been.
17:55 magnuse @wunder boo
17:55 huginn` magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 16.0°C (7:20 PM CEST on September 17, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 63%. Dew Point: 9.0°C. Pressure: 29.53 in 1000 hPa (Steady).
17:55 magnuse not bad, not bad at all
17:55 jcamins magnuse: are you baking bread?
17:56 magnuse nope, it's been a loong time since last time i did
17:56 magnuse and i kind of took a break from reading the "artisan bread in 5 minutes" book
17:56 jcamins Aww.
17:57 jcamins It's so easy!
17:57 magnuse well, other books got in the way
17:57 magnuse the last 3-4 weeks have been intensely busy
17:57 magnuse maybe i should prioritize baking now that things are calming down a bit
17:58 jcamins I haven't actually read through the entire thing. I just looked up a recipe, threw a bunch of ingredients into a pail, and called it a success. :)
17:58 magnuse hehe
18:02 jcamins I just made rye bread out of that book.
18:02 jcamins Well...
18:02 jcamins I made rye bread inspired by that book.
18:02 jcamins Well...
18:02 jcamins I was inspired to make rye bread, and opened that book.
18:02 jcamins ^^ there we go
18:03 kf bye all
18:03 tcohen kf
18:03 magnuse jcamins: lol
18:04 tcohen what does "tracing links" stand for? (like in "the tracing links produced in the OPAC fail in XSLT mode")
18:04 jcamins subject tracings.
18:05 jcamins I think.
18:05 tcohen tracing == browsing?
18:05 jcamins The links to see other books with the same subjects.
18:06 magnuse unless it is a typo for "tracking links"?
18:06 tcohen ok, the action of tracing is following those links
18:06 * tcohen is learning english, sorry #koha
18:06 magnuse tcohen++
18:07 * magnuse is unsure of the meaning of tracing in that context too
18:08 jcamins magnuse: ooh, it could be a typo for "tracking."
18:08 jcamins tcohen: do you have more context? Now I'm unsure.
18:08 tcohen i've just found a bug with XSLT links to authorities
18:08 tcohen http://bmayor.biblio.unc.edu.ar/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=3608
18:09 tcohen its trivial, just need to know how to descrie the problem
18:09 tcohen similar bugs talk about "tracing links"
18:09 magnuse ...as in bug 8917
18:09 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8917 new feature, P5 - low, ---, chris, Pushed to Master , Track clicks to links external to Koha
18:09 magnuse nah, i'm afraid i'm just muddying the waters
18:10 tcohen http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9563
18:10 huginn` 04Bug 9563: normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , Author links don't generate correct search query url for UseAuthoritesForTracings
18:10 tcohen context of the question would be UseAuthoritesForTracings
18:10 jcamins Odd.
18:11 jcamins I wonder how the quotation marks got there.
18:11 tcohen not sure, how would you describe the problem in a bug jcamins?
18:11 jcamins "Author tracings incorrect when UseAuthoritiesForTracings is turned on"
18:21 tcohen i *might* have taken you literally
18:21 tcohen heh: bug 10905
18:21 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10905 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Author tracings incorrect when UseAuthoritiesForTracings is turned on
18:21 * jcamins noticed. :P
18:34 magnuse moin drojf and cait
18:34 cait moin? :)
18:34 tcohen cait: 10691
18:35 * magnuse tries to catch two flies with one greeting (norwegianism suspected)
18:36 drojf hei magnuse. moin works all day for me :)
18:37 druthb drojf! cait! magnuse!
18:37 drojf druthb!
18:37 cait druthb! drojf! magnuse!
18:37 * druthb flashes her shiny engagement ring again.
18:37 cait hehe
18:37 drojf huh what?
18:38 oleonard huh what?
18:38 cait engagement... i will have to lok that up
18:38 cait :P
18:38 druthb LOL
18:38 druthb https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/553581_10151889215892889_1328948159_n.jpg
18:39 jenkins_koha Yippie, build fixed!
18:39 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1424: FIXED in 1 hr 32 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/1424/
18:39 jenkins_koha Galen Charlton: Bug 10897: remove test for module that has become DB-dependent
18:39 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10897 major, P2, ---, gmcharlt, Pushed to Master , t/ILSDI_Services.t is db dependent
18:39 drojf druthb: i do non-koha things for a few days and you got nothing better to do than getting engaged? :P
18:39 magnuse druthb!
18:40 wahanui Well, she finally snapped, like we all knew she would.
18:40 druthb :D
18:40 drojf druthb: congratulations :)
18:40 magnuse yeah, huge congrats to druthb!
18:41 jcamins drojf: I have a question for you. When using bcrypt for hashing passwords, do you want to use the same hash on every run or is it reasonable to generate a new hash each session?
18:41 druthb thanks, drojf n magnuse. Raychel and I are kinda amped about it.
18:41 magnuse :-)
18:42 * cait apologizes for breaking the packages
18:43 drojf jcamins: you must confuse me with somebody who knows a lot about crypto :)
18:43 jcamins drojf: I meant new salt, not new hash.
18:43 jcamins drojf: you're interested in privacy and security. You should know these things.
18:44 drojf jcamins: i would if i had more time :)
18:44 * magnuse wishes there was a way to put the alpha subfields before the numerical ones
18:47 magnuse cait: you broke the packages?
18:50 cait yep
18:50 cait :(
18:51 magnuse how?
18:55 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
18:56 druthb hi, mtompset
18:56 mtompset I think the QA Sprint Day topic should be changed by now. Though, I suppose QA folks never stop running. *cheers for QA folks*
18:56 jcamins mtompset: no one can seem to change it.
18:56 mtompset Greetings, druthb.
18:56 mtompset Oh. Well, I didn't know someone tried. :(
18:57 * druthb blames jcamins.
18:57 * magnuse blames druthb
18:57 * druthb takes the blame, and offers cookies.
18:57 magnuse yay!
18:57 * jcamins takes the cookies, and offers rye bread.
18:58 * magnuse takes the rye bread and offers dried cod (stockfish)
18:58 mtompset No, no, druthb. "Blame Canada!" (http://youtu.be/bOR38552MJA)
18:58 magnuse what does the fox say to that?
18:58 magnuse what does the fox say?
18:58 wahanui https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jofNR_WkoCE
18:58 * drojf takes the dried cod and offers a flu
18:59 * magnuse declines the offer in the nicest way he can think of
18:59 jcamins magnuse: oh, speaking of which, What does the fox say? has made it to the level of major Internet meme.
18:59 magnuse moahahaha
18:59 drojf magnuse: you mean "get the hell away from me with that thing!!!" ?
18:59 magnuse jcamins: how can you tell?
18:59 jcamins Let me find it.
18:59 cait magnuse++
18:59 magnuse oh by the way: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/2013-09-23_Global_bug_squashing_day
19:00 magnuse be there or be square!
19:00 cait yay!
19:01 magnuse be there or i will rickroll you with "what does the fox say"
19:02 jcamins magnuse: still looking.
19:02 magnuse oh here is "the fox" played by a huge american marching band: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzETQCYW3GY
19:03 jcamins magnuse: here we go. http://waltzy.tumblr.com/post/61511139957/the-fox-new-fox-promo-x
19:03 jcamins It is being used to mock low-quality American TV channels.
19:04 magnuse ah, fox channel? heh!
19:05 magnuse ooh, jenkins has wall displays?
19:06 drojf what the fox did i just watch?
19:06 magnuse drojf: not sure i want to know? ;-)
19:07 jcamins drojf: clips from all of Fox channel's TV shows cut together to sync them against "What does the fox say?"?
19:10 * mtompset cheers for oleonard!
19:10 drojf jcamins magnuse no i meant the "official" fox video. i had seen the link here but not tried it yet
19:11 jcamins Bwahahahahahaha!!!!
19:11 drojf the fox clips did not make it better though
19:11 jcamins Who said anything about better?
19:11 jcamins I said it had become a true cultural meme.
19:11 drojf i love how i watch something for the first time that has 33 million views on youtube. my filter bubble works :P
19:12 magnuse hehe
19:12 drojf well kind of works, i watched it in the end
19:12 drojf :P
19:12 magnuse lol
19:14 jenkins_koha Starting build #17 for job Koha_Docs_3.12.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
19:14 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs_3.12.x build #17: SUCCESS in 10 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs_3.12.x/17/
19:14 jenkins_koha Nicole C. Engard: reoder librarything prefs
19:15 oleonard I always try to wait at least until after a marching band has performed it to watch the latest thing on YouTube.
19:15 magnuse oleonard: good idea, probably
19:16 magnuse hm, do we have to kind of starting thinking about roles for 3.14++ soonish?
19:16 jenkins_koha Starting build #367 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: SUCCESS)
19:16 jenkins_koha Starting build #61 for job Koha_Docs_3.10.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
19:16 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs build #367: SUCCESS in 9.3 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/367/
19:16 jenkins_koha * Nicole C. Engard: reoder librarything prefs
19:16 jenkins_koha * Nicole C. Engard: update OPACDisplay856uAsImage to be clearer
19:16 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs_3.10.x build #61: SUCCESS in 9.9 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs_3.10.x/61/
19:16 jenkins_koha * Nicole C. Engard: reoder librarything prefs
19:16 jenkins_koha * Nicole C. Engard: update OPACDisplay856uAsImage to be clearer
19:18 tcohen bye #koha
19:18 magnuse bye tcohen
19:21 mtompset What's the best way to compare two data structures in perl?
19:21 jcamins In a unit test?
19:21 jcamins Test::Deep.
19:21 jcamins In other contexts? It depends.
19:25 jcamins How long are we making random passwords now?
19:26 jcamins 16 characters.
19:29 jenkins_koha Starting build #18 for job Koha_Docs_3.12.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
19:29 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs_3.12.x build #18: SUCCESS in 8.9 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs_3.12.x/18/
19:29 jenkins_koha Nicole C. Engard: update OPACDisplay856uAsImage to be clearer
19:44 mtompset 16? AddMember_Opac only does 10.
19:52 magnuse depends on which passwords we are talking about
19:52 magnuse koha-create also creates passwords
19:52 * magnuse calls it a day and a half
19:53 jcamins koha-create
19:53 wahanui it has been said that koha-create is part of the package :)
19:55 rangi fwiw id boycott a paid kohacon (or one where speakers are paid)
19:55 rangi just my opinion
19:56 cait huh?
19:56 rangi oh, kist reading scroll back
19:56 rangi just even
19:57 cait hm not sure I want to
19:57 jcamins That's what I was getting at when I said I thought a paid Kohacon would lose core developers.
19:57 drojf i don't think i want to read that
19:57 drojf or be part of it in any way
19:58 rangi :)
19:59 oleonard Hi rangi
19:59 cait some people seem to misunderstand that free software free conference concept...
19:59 rangi heya oleonard, has your bug been signed off?
19:59 * cait will not read back.
19:59 oleonard Nope
20:00 oleonard Bug 10309
20:00 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10309 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , New OPAC theme based on Bootstrap
20:00 * rangi will try at lunchtime
20:01 oleonard It is no small thing I ask. Lots to test.
20:03 rangi yeah, but i could start and note anything
20:04 oleonard any amount of feedback is welcome, since I have received little!
20:04 rangi handily
20:05 rangi people can test
20:05 rangi http://responsive.mykoha.co.nz/
20:05 rangi there
20:05 cait :)
20:05 rangi without even needing to have a koha install
20:05 jcamins Is that up to date?
20:06 rangi should be, its cronned to update from oleonard's branch, but ill check
20:06 jcamins oleonard: bad news...
20:06 wahanui hmmm... bad news is that you're probably royally screwed
20:06 rangi with wizzyrea
20:06 oleonard Thanks wahanui
20:06 jcamins The search dropdown box on the main page is on top of the go button.
20:07 rangi i see that too, overlapping a few pixels
20:07 rangi but i will check it is totally up to date
20:07 rangi when i get to work
20:08 mtompset rangi: Is your parenthetical (or one where speakers are paid) what you meant by paid kohacon, and you didn't mean paid as in registration fee?
20:08 rangi both
20:08 rangi i hate both ideas
20:08 jcamins oleonard: and the "Additional content types for books/printed materials" is jogged downwards.
20:09 rangi jcamins: what page is that?
20:09 oleonard jcamins: Can you add comments to Bug 10309 please?
20:09 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10309 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , New OPAC theme based on Bootstrap
20:09 jcamins Oh, sorry. Advanced search.
20:09 jcamins Sure.
20:09 rangi ah yeah, when you switch on more option
20:09 rangi s
20:09 oleonard I don't understand what you're saying about the search dropdown box
20:10 rangi on my screen, its over the left of the go button
20:10 jcamins I'll take a screenshot, but part of the left of the go button is covered by the dropdown.
20:10 mtompset rangi: What do you hate about the idea of a registration fee? The inaccessibility it creates? Something else?
20:11 rangi the inaccessibility, the removing a point of difference, the killing of a tradition for no real gain
20:12 mtompset removing a point of difference? As in comparing one bid against another?
20:12 oleonard Differentiating ourselves from other conferences
20:12 rangi as in we are different to douchebag companies like sirsi dynix
20:12 jcamins No, Koha is about openness and inclusiveness.
20:13 mtompset AH... okay.
20:13 rangi we had no problem covering costs at kohacon10 in nz
20:13 rangi it takes organisation, and a willingness to door knock
20:13 rangi we had a lot of sponsors that have nothing to do with koha
20:14 rangi i think making it more clear hosting a conference is a LOT of work
20:14 rangi is worth doing, changing the entire tone of the conference, not so much
20:15 oleonard Time for me to leave. Bye #koha
20:15 mtompset Bye, oleonard. :)
20:15 mtompset Greetings, tcohen.
20:15 tcohen hi mtompset
20:22 * cait agrees with rangi on that
20:23 * jcamins would like to think out loud a bit: would it make sense to separate the MySQL and Koha system user credentials?
20:24 mtompset Separate how? What do you mean?
20:24 jcamins Have two sets.
20:24 drojf why?
20:25 jcamins Koha logs into MySQL using one set of credentials, but the kohaadmin user has a different password.
20:25 jcamins drojf: to reduce the number of MySQL servers with the password "katikoan"
20:26 * jcamins was just struck by this thought, and wondered what people thought of it.
20:26 drojf that sounds like a reasonable motivation
20:27 mtompset So where would the koha needs to access all the tables in the DB password be set and known? And how would you split that from a koha system user with different system credentials? Would user 0 exist now?
20:28 jcamins I'm not going to work on it because there are nowhere near enough tuits and that's low priority, it's just a thought.
20:28 jcamins mtompset: both passwords would be in koha-conf.xml. The difference is the MySQL credentials would not work to log in to Koha, and the Koha credentials would not work to log into MySQL.
20:29 jcamins In my ideal world, the Koha credentials would even be bcrypted, the same as passwords in the database.
20:30 mtompset jcamins: That's great from a security perspective, but think librarian who wants to try Koha out, and have never heard of Debian before.
20:30 mtompset Some people can't grasp that one password is different than another.
20:30 jcamins mtompset: if they're using packages it's taken care of, if they're running the Makefile manually, they still have to create a MySQL user.
20:30 jcamins If they then choose to make the two passwords the same, that's their prerogative.
20:31 mtompset And one could reasonably assume the manual folks should be able to handle that.
20:32 jcamins Right. If they can't, they're going to have problems anyway because their MySQL user isn't going to be able to connect by virtue of not existing.
20:32 jcamins And then you could have a koha-password script that generates one-time passwords for the Koha system users.
20:33 mtompset Do we have a koha reset password script? Because that would be useful already. :)
20:34 jcamins No, that can't be done.
20:35 mtompset when packages are installed, the password is autogenerated in the koha-conf.xml file. If one knows the root password for the MySQL server, can't one reset them?
20:36 jcamins Yes, but only if one knows the root password for the MySQL server.
20:41 mtompset So then it isn't a matter of can't, but rather a matter of difficult, annoying, and not so feasible. :)
20:41 jcamins "Not feasible" and "can't be done" are more or less the same.
20:42 jcamins And if you're manually changing the password, you might as well just edit the file yourself, since you must have sudo or root.
20:43 mtompset But in your ideal world, if the password is encrypted, you would edit in the encrypted password?
20:43 jcamins No, in my ideal world you use a script and don't need a root password.
20:45 mtompset Now there's a dream that can't be done.
20:45 jcamins No, what I just described is perfectly feasiable.
20:45 jcamins *feasible
20:46 jcamins The MySQL password can't be automatically changed, because that's simply not an option.
20:46 mtompset splitting the two credentials is feasible, yes.
20:46 mtompset Good security idea.
20:46 jcamins With them split, the Koha password can then be changed with a script easily.
20:47 wizzyrea yep, responsive is updated every night
20:47 mtompset wizzyrea!
20:47 wahanui wizzyrea is a fan of selecting hunks for committing.
20:47 wizzyrea hi
20:48 mtompset I thought of you the other night when I put up some tests as a patch.
20:48 wizzyrea yea?
20:48 mtompset Remember that conversation way, way long ago (it seems) about overriding OpacHiddenItems based on Patron Category code?
20:49 wizzyrea possibly?
20:49 mtompset You suggested that instead of just a single code, I could pipe delimit codes.
20:51 wizzyrea oh right yea
20:51 wizzyrea hopefully you weren't saying wizzyrea <swearing>
20:51 wizzyrea >.>
20:51 wizzyrea <.<
20:51 mtompset No, of course not!
20:51 mtompset We all know it is jcamins' fault. ;)
20:53 mtompset I just wanted to point out that I did things a bit backwards (oops!) and forgot to write tests until after. :)
20:53 mtompset And see if you wanted to test the patches. :)
20:55 wizzyrea aha
20:55 wizzyrea I am rather snowed with actual stuff that we get paid for atm :/
20:55 mtompset no problem.
20:55 wizzyrea >.< the hazards
20:56 tcohen wizzyrea: how do i set pre-due notices?
20:56 cait wizzyrea: it's annoying isn'tit?
20:56 wizzyrea set them
20:56 wizzyrea ?
20:56 wizzyrea oh you mean how do you enable them?
20:56 tcohen negative values?
20:56 cait tcohen: patron messaging preferences and advanced_notices script?
20:56 tcohen exactly
20:56 wizzyrea no, positive values
20:56 wizzyrea number of days before due date you want the notice to arrive
20:57 tcohen and the overdue ones?
20:57 cait tcohen: where are you looking? it should only offer a pull down with positives
20:57 wizzyrea so like, 4 for "four days before items are due"
20:57 mtompset http://www.kohacon10.org.nz/ doesn't work any more. :(
20:57 wizzyrea overdues are handled through the overdue status triggers
20:57 wizzyrea under Tools
20:58 tcohen "patron messaging preferences
20:58 tcohen hmm
20:59 cait tcohen: first turn on the system preference
20:59 wizzyrea you have to turn on enhanced messaging preferences in the system preference
20:59 cait tcohen: then go to a patron and set it :)
20:59 wizzyrea then it will be on the borrower detail
20:59 wizzyrea if you want to set defaults across all borrower categories
20:59 tcohen if I want it globally?
20:59 * cait is procrastinating and should let wizzyrea answer and work on slides...
20:59 cait slides?
20:59 wahanui kf should be writing slides
20:59 wizzyrea you have to do that in the category
20:59 tcohen same syspref
20:59 wizzyrea if you want that to be retrospective
20:59 wizzyrea yep
20:59 wizzyrea you have to use the script in misc/migration-tools for force-borrower-messaging-preferences
21:00 wizzyrea but I don't really recommend doing that on an already in use system because it will overwrite any borrower defined notice settings.
21:00 wizzyrea but if you are only now turning that on it would be fine tod o
21:00 wizzyrea to do*
21:00 tcohen thanks wizzyrea and cait
21:00 Brooke o/
21:00 tcohen \o
21:00 wizzyrea did that all make sense?
21:01 Brooke if it came from the lips of wizzyrea, sense is always included.
21:01 wizzyrea hm. I suppose.
21:03 Brooke wizzyrea++
21:05 cait wizzyrea++ and sorry for interrupting :)
21:06 Brooke hey cait :D
21:11 mtompset Woo hoo! Flash crash!
21:12 mtompset Okay... question about tests.
21:12 mtompset Every C4 library has methods/functions within it.
21:13 mtompset Should tests which focus on one function/method be in a separate test file?
21:13 mtompset Is there a recommended naming convention and placement to follow?
21:17 rangi back
21:19 rangi mtompset: no, tests for the package should be in one file
21:19 jcamins Unless your tests get really freaking absurd, in which case a separate file might be preferred (see the Acquisitions module for an example of a module that should be split up).
21:20 tweetbot_ [off] @KohaILS: "#KohaILS [Koha-patches] [PATCH] Bug 10892 : Make facets customizable - step 1 store… http://t.co/DdyawV4v20"
21:20 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10892 enhancement, P3, ---, mathieu.saby, Needs Signoff , Make facets customisable - step 1 : store facet config in YAML block
21:20 rangi yeah, if you need separate test files
21:20 rangi what you really need is
21:20 rangi separate modules
21:23 mtompset How long is too long for a test file, before these split considerations should start crossing your mind?
21:34 tcohen_ mtompset: did you try my unit tests?
21:35 mtompset not yet.
21:35 mtompset I've been writing more tests.
21:36 mtompset In this case for C4::Context's setenv.
21:45 mtompset C4::Context is a module that would generate a whack load of tests. Should I put my setenv testing into t/db_dependent/Context.t? Or should I put it into a separate test file?
21:45 mtompset set_userenv (I mean)
22:01 tcohen Context_set_userenv.t maybe
22:02 eythian hi
22:04 tcohen hey eythian
22:04 wahanui go back to bed, eythian
22:04 eythian wahanui: I would like to, but now it's too far away.
22:04 wahanui eythian: huh?
22:18 tcohen feature slush?
22:18 wahanui feature slush is March 15.
22:18 tcohen WTF?
22:18 tcohen schedule for 3.14?
22:20 drojf i think its september 25
22:20 drojf and wahanui does not know it. i found it in the logs for last meeting
22:20 cait release schedule?
22:20 wahanui release schedule is, like, http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Proposal_for_RM_3_14_gmcharlt#Timeline
22:21 drojf ok. then i do not know how to ask the bot
22:21 * drojf crawls away in shame
22:21 drojf at least the date was right
22:21 tcohen wahanui: feature slush is september 25
22:21 wahanui ...but feature slush is March 15....
22:21 tcohen wahanui: forget feature slush
22:21 wahanui tcohen: I forgot feature slush
22:22 tcohen wahanui: feature slush is september 25
22:22 wahanui OK, tcohen.
22:22 tcohen feature slush?
22:22 wahanui feature slush is september 25
22:22 cait hm?
22:22 cait slides?
22:22 wahanui kf should be writing slides
22:22 cait kf is not here :P
22:23 tcohen wahanui: feature slush is also the date stuff didn't get passed-qa won't make it into 3.14
22:23 wahanui okay, tcohen.
22:23 tcohen feature slush?
22:23 wahanui feature slush is september 25
22:24 tcohen feature slush?
22:24 wahanui feature slush is the date stuff didn't get passed-qa won't make it into 3.14
22:25 drojf i don't think that is true
22:25 drojf exactly
22:25 drojf i thought what passed qa is in, you have to beg for rest
22:27 tcohen wahanui: forget that
22:27 wahanui tcohen: I forgot that
22:27 drojf 18:15:49 <gmcharlt> cait: feature slush -- any new features that have hit passed QA by that date will be included in 3.14, assuming they don't raise signfiicant QA concerns on my part 18:16:29 <cait> thx :) 18:16:33 <gmcharlt> new features that have /not/ hit passed QA by feature slush are more liable to be left for the next release; if you want something that misses slush to make it in, you'll need to advocate for it
22:28 drojf from the meeting log
22:28 tcohen feature slush?
22:28 wahanui i guess feature slush is the date stuff didn't get passed-qa won't make it into 3.14
22:28 tcohen wahanui: forget feature slush
22:28 wahanui tcohen: I forgot feature slush
22:28 tcohen wahanui: feature slush is september 25
22:28 wahanui OK, tcohen.
22:30 tcohen wahanui: feature slush is also the date stuff that got passed-qa makes it into 3.14 with high probability
22:30 wahanui okay, tcohen.
22:47 tweetbot_ [off] @nzKoha: "A chance to become a #KohaILS developer for librarians attending #lianza2013 http://t.co/76vaGCzFdx"
23:41 tweetbot_ [off] @wizzyrea: "https://t.co/1pInWMdWJz I think this is interesting - crowd funding for open source software. Wonder if #KohaILS could benefit."
23:44 eythian so you can no longer log in to the opac using the database user details?
23:58 wizzyrea ooo can ya not? I thought you could
23:58 trea since when?
23:58 wahanui since when are you normal people?
23:59 trea good point wahanui
23:59 wizzyrea i have only observed it in 3.12, but I thought it was a side effect of something else
23:59 wizzyrea like wacky integrations.