Time  Nick         Message
23:20 jcamins      tcohen: directories have been reorganized.
23:16 tcohen       is there any difference between texlive 2012 and 2013? (besides the version number heh)
23:06 tcohen       heh
23:05 eythian      also, involuntary vision quests if you get the wrong one
23:04 jcamins      It adds body to soups.
23:04 jcamins      It's good.
23:03 tcohen       never used salvia
22:59 jcamins      Plantain bruschetta.
22:59 jcamins      Oooh.
22:57 jcamins      And leaning towards using the rosemary rather than the sage.
22:56 jcamins      I'm thinking sauteeing will work well.
22:56 jcamins      Plantains, potatoes, and rosemary or sage. How should I combine them?
22:46 wizzyrea     :)
22:43 jcamins      wizzyrea: you'll be glad to know that Shari has been converted to a dyed-in-wool Whovian.
22:13 wizzyrea     it shouldn't though - I just fixed my script. But do @later me if you find it busted.
22:05 wizzyrea     golly that's purty
22:04 wizzyrea     right - kindly let me know in the future if the bootstrap responsive demo gets stuck in maintenance mode ;)
21:58 eythian      http://uksg.metapress.com/content/f195g8ak0eu21muh/?id=f195g8ak0eu21muh <-- how meta!
21:55 cait         good night :)
21:55 cait         hm sleep... interesting concept
21:46 jcamins      Hehe.
21:46 mtompset     Well, the long day is over. Now for the long night. Have a great day, #koha.
21:45 tcohen       mental note: ctrl-r service <enter> might not restart ther service you expect
21:37 tcohen       thanks cait
21:36 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10309 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , New OPAC theme based on Bootstrap
21:36 wahanui      an up to date demo of the Bootstrap OPAC can be found at http://responsive.mykoha.co.nz - it's tracking from oleonard's branch bootstrap-opac on gitorious. Bug reports should be filed on bug 10309.
21:36 cait         bootstrap?
21:36 tcohen       bootstrap opac?
20:58 mtompset     I like the song. What does the fox say?
20:57 mtompset     Saw that yesterday.
20:56 huginn`      cait: The operation succeeded.
20:56 cait         @later tell magnuse http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/music/9148120/The-Fox-isn-t-even-Ylvis-best-music-video
20:45 mtompset     Tweaked the bug report.
20:45 mtompset     There... added the optimization.
20:40 cait         hm.
20:32 mtompset     If that is what you are asking about.
20:32 mtompset     I didn't optimize GetHiddenItems.
20:31 cait         mtompset: i hope it only uses it if there is actually something in the parameter?
20:29 mtompset     Actually, opac-detail uses GetHiddenItems() regularly now, but I think other use statements load modules that end up using YAML.
20:28 jcamins      mtompset: use will also work. I favor require because obviously it is used very infrequently.
20:27 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10872 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , C4::Items.pm has YAML::Load in GetHiddenItems but lacks use or require
20:27 mtompset     jcamins: I know you said require, but rangi said use yesterday. I put up the a line patch. It's a case of eyeballing, as far as I'm concerned. I don't know how to trigger it with the current code. bug 10872 if anyone is interested in commenting on it. :)
20:27 oleonard     Bye #koha
20:00 jcamins      I mean, based in Europe, but they were working with Venezuela in 2007.
20:00 jcamins      rambutan: not really.
19:59 rambutan     EIFL seems to be a European organization/program?
19:55 rangi        some of the koha users around the world should totally apply for this
19:54 rangi        http://www.eifl.net/news/new-award-creative-use-ict-public-libraries
19:51 rangi        yep
19:50 druthb       rangi:  I'd love to see our Kiva team at 100 loans by the end of the year!  Only 9 to go!
19:50 rangi        plus windy
19:44 huginn`      rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 15.0°C (7:00 AM NZST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Rain. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 29.65 in 1004 hPa (Steady).
19:44 rangi        @wunder nzwn
19:44 huginn`      cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 11.3°C (9:40 PM CEST on September 10, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: 9.0°C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Steady).
19:44 cait         @wunder Konstanz
19:43 cait         morning rangi
19:43 rangi        and morning
19:43 rangi        http://www.kiva.org/team/koha
19:37 tcohen       bye #koha
19:33 oleonard     Okay, that's a clear majority
19:33 jcamins      oleonard: I prefer catalog.
19:30 oleonard     jcamins: Do you have a vote? "Catalog" or "Bibliographic" ?
19:29 * cait       switches to QA mode
19:27 * cait       fixes 2 tiny bugs and is happy
19:26 oleonard     That's right oleonard_, you run!
19:25 oleonard_    I don't know if oleonard's question is a valid one, but I for one think all his opinions are terrible.
19:23 cait         lol, now i scrolled down.. :)
19:23 cait         maybe catalog and authority?
19:22 * oleonard_  takes the opposite position as oleonard, whatever that position is.
19:17 oleonard     Is an authority search not a search of the catalog?
19:14 wahanui      catalog is no longer broken
19:14 gmcharlt     catalog?
19:11 oleonard     gmcharlt: I'm trying to suggest something besides "biblio" as the term to use
19:11 tcohen       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIVHNylH1Mk
19:11 gmcharlt     yeah, in that case, bib/authority seems fine to me
19:11 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10862 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Add an search history for the staff interface
19:11 oleonard     Bug 10862
19:11 gmcharlt     oleonard: ah, sorry, missed that context
19:10 gmcharlt     oleonard: browse, maybe?
19:10 oleonard     It's in the staff client gmcharlt
19:10 tcohen       heh
19:10 patron       what's an authority?
19:09 oleonard     Two search history tabs, "Bibliographic" and "Authority" ? Any opinions?
19:09 tcohen       thx
19:08 tcohen       :-D
19:07 jcamins      Because you're logged in as the system user.
19:07 tcohen       why do i read "You must define a budget in Administration" if i already have?
19:05 oleonard     "Delete your current biblio history" ... "Delete your current bibliographic search history?" instead?
19:04 oleonard     Here's another case where the term "biblio" needs a better term: The new staff client search history feature separates search history items into two tabs, "biblio" and "authority"
18:57 cait         i think some might copy it for use in academic papers/citing
18:57 cait         i had people complaining about incorrectness in the isbd view
18:57 mtompset     But in the OPAC?
18:55 cait         and regularly someone asks to print out result lists in isbd
18:54 jcamins      I don't remember exactly when.
18:54 jcamins      mtompset: apparently someone does. There was a message on the list about it recently.
18:54 * mtompset   laughs, "Seriously, does anyone use it?"
18:53 cait         and sounds like i got i almost right? :)
18:52 cait         hm to clarify - that was my guess for the tickets druthb was talking about
18:52 oleonard     ISBD's job is to sit there and say "Anyone want to use ISBD? ... Anyone? ..."
18:50 mtompset     Silly, jcamins.
18:50 mtompset     with respect to ITEMS.
18:50 jcamins      Display ISBD. :P
18:50 mtompset     And I haven't even figured out wat ISBD view is supposed to be doing.
18:49 mtompset     MARC view does not.
18:49 mtompset     OPAC view respects OpacHiddenItems.
18:48 mtompset     Look at OPAC view, MARC view, and ISBD view.
18:48 druthb       They're trying to use someone else's login credentials.  Wondering why they can't get them.
18:48 mtompset     find an entry with some hidden and some not hidden items.
18:48 mtompset     okay...OpacHiddenItems...
18:47 cait         it's a bad idea what you are trying to do there?
18:46 druthb       Three of which have been closed, all with the same answer.
18:46 druthb       nope, but a search has determined that they have seven open tickets across our two ticketing systems, all on this issue, targetted at different groups.
18:45 mtompset     druthb: Did they contact the janitors this time? ;)
18:45 wahanui      :)
18:45 druthb       wahanui:  botsnack annoying plugin developers.
18:43 druthb       hm.
18:43 * druthb     pokes wahanui with a pointy stick.
18:42 mtompset     Either works. I don't care. It just blows up triggering the "can't do the YAML::Load" code in the GetHiddenItems() when patching opac/opac-MARCdetail.pl
18:42 wahanui      also that is a giant undertaking
18:42 jcamins      Also that.
18:41 jcamins      It should be require YAML.
18:41 cait         how does the problem show?
18:40 mtompset     C4::Items ... missing "use YAML qw/Load/;"
18:40 cait         what kind of bug fix?
18:40 jcamins      If you want it to go in, yes.
18:40 mtompset     okay... question... should I really split a one line bug fix into a seperate report and create a bug that depends on another?
18:38 mtompset     sort of like calling all malware, trojans, etc. viruses for non-computer people. :)
18:37 oleonard     Of course a better librarian will quibble with the oversimplification ;)
18:36 mtompset     oleonard++ # for succinctly clarifying the difference between multivolumes and serials.
18:35 mtompset     Okay, that makes sense, thanks.
18:34 oleonard     Multi-volume: encyclopedia. Serial: Magazine.
18:34 mtompset     I'm not a library geek, forgive my ignorance.
18:34 mtompset     Or more properly what is a serial and what is a multivolume?
18:33 mtompset     How are multivolumes different from serials?
18:29 cait         c
18:29 cait         not sure about unimar
18:29 cait         mtompset: in germany for example we don't put multivolumes on the same record, every volume gets its own record - it would only happen for serials
18:29 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10859 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , Alert if a patron already has an issue for the same biblio
18:28 oleonard     mtompset: Bug 10859
18:28 cait         mtompset: i think it doesn't make a different - item on record
18:28 oleonard     Yes of course
18:28 cait         has a?
18:27 jcamins      Both.
18:27 mtompset     Is this covering multiple copies of the same book, or multiple volumes in the same series, or both?
18:22 oleonard     "Patron already has copy of this title checked out" <-- less precise but more understandable?
18:18 druthb       As paul_p said in Mumbai, "We could complain about it…that's what we do, because we're French."  lol
18:18 cait         as it#s normally me complaining about translatability issues... that would be a nice change :)
18:17 oleonard     I would love to toss that into the English translation, cait, and see how long it takes for someone to complain.
18:17 * tcohen     grumbles as more and more patches depend on 9394
18:17 cait         Der Benutzer hat bereits ein Exemplar dieses Titels ausgeliehen....
18:16 cait         oleonard: propose a new one? :)
18:16 cait         hm one item of this title?
18:16 mtompset     Record sounds too logical structure-ish.
18:16 cait         i will translate it as Titel anyway :P
18:15 oleonard     I don't think there is a way to make that sentence sound good.
18:15 cait         or record
18:15 cait         i like title
18:15 mtompset     Title fits more nicely in the sentence.
18:15 druthb       mmmm….sushi...
18:15 oleonard     "Patron already has an item from this title checked out."
18:15 * cait       is still thinking about suhi mostly
18:15 cait         which sentence?
18:15 cait         ?
18:15 druthb       jcamins++   # consulting someone who actually translates about translation issues
18:14 jcamins      cait: We're discussing that sentence. In particular, we're wondering if putting "title" in there instead of record would be reasonably translatable.
18:13 jcamins      oleonard: let's consult cait.
18:13 jcamins      mtompset: except then there's no referent at all.
18:13 mtompset     No need to reference biblio or record.
18:13 mtompset     "Patron has already checked out one of these items"?
18:11 oleonard     "Patron already has an item from this record checked out."
18:09 jcamins      "Title" sounds better to me in English, but I don't think it works in other languages.
18:09 oleonard     Good point.
18:09 jcamins      I think probably "record" because of translation issues.
18:09 oleonard     "record?"
18:09 oleonard     Would you vote for "title" jcamins?
18:08 jcamins      That sounds like a pretty strong argument.
18:08 oleonard     Maybe, "biblio is not a word?"
18:08 oleonard     I'm pretty sure there are instances where we do. Looking for a good argument for not adding another.
18:06 jcamins      oleonard: are we really using "biblio" in the UI?
18:05 oleonard     ...but what is the better term, if any?
18:05 oleonard     I don't like using the word "biblio" in the staff client to refer to a title/bibliographic record/thing
18:05 jcamins      (even if I feel obliged to make snarky comments about MARC)
18:03 jcamins      (seriously, though, I think it's a good idea)
18:03 jcamins      Took me a little while.
18:03 jcamins      [off] http://theplowcreative.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/lipstickpig.jpeg
18:03 tcohen       unlike...?
18:02 jcamins      ... and not unlike...
18:02 jcamins      I think that would be *awesome*.
18:02 tcohen       i as thinking of writing a configurable value builder plugin to target TemaTres vocabulary servers
18:01 tcohen       heh
17:59 * mtompset   cheers, "YAY! I think I have something working for MARCview that respects OpacHiddenItems."
17:58 jcamins      You can use 880s, but they're supposed to be used only for different scripts.
17:58 jcamins      Not pleasantly.
17:57 jcamins      Or, to put it differently...
17:57 jcamins      tcohen: yes. Step 1, throw out MARC. Step 2, use a sensible metadata schema.
17:57 tcohen       jcamins, is there a way to do multi-language cataloguing with MARC?
17:56 druthb       Never *ever ever* a good idea.
17:56 mtompset     Sounds like malware waiting to happen.
17:56 druthb       yep.
17:56 oleonard     Retrieving others' passwords... Never a good idea, or never EVER a good idea?
17:56 mtompset     other people's passwords?!
17:55 druthb       Wonder who they'll ask next…the janitor?
17:55 druthb       (their plugin is trying to retrieve other people's passwords so you can do something on behalf of another user.)
17:54 druthb       Third-party dev trying to integrate their stuff with cPanel…they've been told "no, it doesn't work like that" *at least* thrice…and so they asked again…this time, to *marketing*.
17:54 oleonard     ?
17:53 * druthb     's mind has been boggled.
17:42 nengard      hello
17:42 mtompset     Greetings, nengard. :)
17:41 jcamins      mtompset: probably by using the term "value builder" for the cataloging module, since that's what they're actually called.
17:40 mtompset     Is there a better way to express the lack of connect without changing the word plug in?
17:40 mtompset     jcamins: Remember how the word plug-in confused me with respect to Koha plugins vs. cataloging plugins? It would seem that is what happened with VKV. He just sent me a thank you for my comment.
16:43 mtompset     ... yes... me like idea. :)
16:07 jcamins      Given that we already have TT, I see little point in switching, but a template system that also works on the client side _could_ be used in Koha for record rendering.
16:06 jcamins      Right.
16:06 gmcharlt     well, replace "from scratch" with "now that we using TT for the page templates..."
16:05 gmcharlt     I would actually suggested template toolkit, were I to do it from scratch nowadays -- not client based, of course, but TT cetainly has everything needed, there's nothing per se that prevents templates from being stored in the database, and if paired with future work to use TT for notice tempalte and the like ... would have the end result of using a single template system for almost everything
16:05 jcamins      I, personally, am using Handlebars.
16:04 jcamins      Well, stated categorically that I couldn't think of any.
16:04 jcamins      gmcharlt: I'm actually not proposing to use any, but oleonard had asked me a few weeks ago if there was any use for a client-side templating language like handlebars or mustache, and I had stated categorically that there was not.
16:03 gmcharlt     jcamins: what template language are you proposing to use?
15:53 kf           bye all :)
15:53 kf           time to have sushi!
15:52 jcamins      And it strikes me that A) this is a heck of a lot friendlier than XSLT to the novice, B) more amenable to in-database storage, and C) could enable fully client-side display, for the cataloging module, or faster paging.
15:52 oleonard     Sounds diverting ;)
15:51 jcamins      I'm writing a template for displaying MARC-in-JSON.
15:51 oleonard     Oh yeah?
15:51 jcamins      oleonard: right now I'm working on something where Koha might actually benefit from a templating system like handlebars.
15:41 mtompset     oleonard++ # for evil ideas. :P
15:41 oleonard     Darn, I wanted the nested @seen to work too
15:41 huginn`      oleonard: mtompset was last seen in #koha 10 minutes and 20 seconds ago: <mtompset> @seen tcohen
15:41 oleonard     @seen mtompset
15:30 huginn`      mtompset: tcohen was last seen in #koha 2 hours, 18 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <tcohen> is git down?
15:30 mtompset     @seen tcohen
15:29 mtompset     Hence the question, because the MARCdetails.pl grabs data differently than details.pl
15:29 mtompset     Hmm... okay... let me check that idea... opac/opac-MARCdetails.pl is not operating on OpacHiddenItems system preference.
15:27 huginn`      jcamins: unknown tag 952
15:27 wahanui      The 952 field is used by Koha to store item data in MARC21 and is described at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Holdings_data_fields_%289xx%29
15:27 jcamins      @marc 952
15:26 mtompset     Given the MARCXML for a biblio, is there a way to know the koha itemnumbers in the 952 fields?
15:23 kf           oleonard++ :)
15:20 kf           yeah, but struggling with her CSS!
15:20 kf           lol
15:19 oleonard     kf++
15:19 oleonard     kf: Brilliant--Indeed I can replicate that error message if I try to switch languages
15:18 kf           sometimes if you have a broken cookie that could do that
15:17 reiveune     bye
15:17 kf           hm maybe with translations
15:16 * oleonard   can't figure out why it is failing for him
15:16 oleonard     I wonder if bkriegel is testing the new OPAC theme with a system preference setup I haven't anticipated
15:11 mtompset     They're just questions, Leon. In answer to your query, they're written down for me. It's a test, designed to provoke an emotional response... Shall we continue?
15:10 mtompset     http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083658/quotes
15:08 oleonard     Sorry, Blade Runner reference
15:06 wahanui      jcamins: no idea
15:06 jcamins      wahanui: turn the turtle over?
15:05 jcamins      turtle?
15:05 * oleonard   asks wahanui why he doesn't just turn the turtle over
15:04 wahanui      somebody said huginn was a bot, not a person.
15:04 kf           wahanui and huginn?
15:04 wahanui      OK, kf.
15:04 kf           wahanui and huginn are bots
15:04 kf           yep
15:04 blou         that's a bot, right?
15:04 blou         kf: thanks.  First ones are the hardest.  I'll ask a lot of them in the coming weeks.
15:03 wahanui      coding guidelines are http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Coding_Guidelines
15:03 kf           coding guidelines?
15:03 wahanui      hmmm... workflow is described at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Bug-enhancement-patch_Workflow
15:03 mtompset     workflow?
15:03 kf           blou: feel free to ask lots of questions :)
15:03 kf           some information on the workflow is in git, i don't know how to link to the developers handbook - but you can see it on the bottom of the page: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Version_Control_Using_Git
15:02 blou         kf: lot of our changes have since been done (differently) by community.  We need to go through all that (some customers are on 3.4) and make sense of it before we even file our first Bugzilla
15:02 kf           not a specific version
15:02 kf           blou: develop always against the master branch
15:01 blou         kf: but we wanted to make our branch on "latest".  Trying to determine what is "latest" right now, for one.
15:01 gmcharlt     postmortem sent
15:01 blou         kf: sure, that's the plan.
15:00 kf           hm good starting point... i think you already know about git probably :)
15:00 kf           blou: got starting points might be getting familiar with bugzilla - logging what you want to contribute ther eor look if someone else is already working on it
15:00 blou         I work with ebegin
15:00 oleonard     Okay, thanks
15:00 blou         oleonard: sorry, we are "inlibro"
15:00 kf           blou: generally sounds good and welcome
14:59 oleonard     blou: Who is "we?" Sorry if you already said and I missed it.
14:58 blou         oleonard: very varied.  We have changes done to various libraries.  We want(need) to streamline our process.  Bringing what we can to the community (and official release), isolate the rest on branches following LATEST version
14:58 wahanui      release schedule is probably http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Proposal_for_RM_3_14_gmcharlt#Timeline
14:58 jcamins      release schedule?
14:56 wahanui      release is, like, the 22nd nz time every month
14:56 mtompset     release?
14:56 wahanui      i think releases is the type
14:56 mtompset     releases?
14:56 wahanui      hmmm... schedule is not fixed yet..there has been some delay from the client side..
14:56 mtompset     schedule?
14:55 oleonard     Hm, I thought wahanui had something for that.
14:55 oleonard     roadmap?
14:55 blou         What is 3.13(14) roadmap?  Looking for release schedule but can't find it.
14:55 mtompset     Isn't Oak from pakistan?
14:55 oleonard     blou: What are you hoping to work on?
14:53 * blou       reading the wikis to know how to start contributing
14:53 oleonard     Details, details.
14:53 mtompset     That would probably be useful if you had an address to send them, oleonard. :)
14:51 * oleonard   mails 79 LiveDVDs to Pakistan
14:51 * gmcharlt   has disabled the snapshot-download feature in Koha's gitweb
14:51 mtompset     Is there a url? We should find the person that pointed to grabbing a tarball snapshot from gitweb. Perhaps a set of bad instruction exists out there.
14:50 kf           hope the person does not do that again
14:50 mtompset     79 attempts to download a tarball?!
14:49 kf           gmcharlt++ khall++
14:48 huginn`      gmcharlt: The operation succeeded.  Quote #276 added.
14:48 gmcharlt     @quote add oleonard shakes his fist and shouts taaaarbaaaaaallll!
14:46 * oleonard   shakes his fist and shouts taaaarbaaaaaallll!
14:44 gmcharlt     that's what killed it
14:44 gmcharlt     a single IP address in Pakistan made 79 attempts to download tarball snapshots from gitweb
14:40 mtompset     gmcharlt++
14:40 mtompset     khall++
14:35 oleonard     gmcharlt++
14:35 oleonard     khall++
14:35 khall        Good idea, np!
14:35 gmcharlt     khall: thanks for bouncing it
14:35 * gmcharlt   will look at logs and do a post-mortem
14:35 khall        I couldn't shell in, so I gave it a boot and now it's looking good to go
14:35 khall        back up!
14:32 khall        my bad, I was on the wrong git server!
14:31 khall        investigating
14:29 gmcharlt     khall: so 174.143.233.17 is no longer its IP address?
14:29 khall        or only a dns issue and the startup error is normal
14:29 khall        I wonder if we have a dns issue as well
14:28 khall        try ssh'ing to 50.56.246.75
14:28 gmcharlt     khall: hmm, it's not letting me ssh in
14:28 * kf         hands out cookies
14:26 khall        I can't even tell what's being used, and what is just cruft ; )
14:25 khall        startpar: service(s) returned failure: git-daemon git-ultrasphinx git-poller ... failed!
14:25 khall        gmcharlt: git-daemon won't start
14:25 huginn`      druthb: Quote #7: "Snow_Fox: a rift opens in space the information is shuffled to dev_hyperspace rift then closes" (added by wizzyrea at 03:28 PM, June 18, 2009)
14:25 druthb       @quote random
14:25 khall        it looks like both gitolite and gitorious have been installed on this server
14:25 gmcharlt     khall: what's the capsule summary?
14:24 khall        gmcharlt: most definitely!
14:24 kf           hi gmcharlt :) we were just looking for you :)
14:24 gmcharlt     khall: need a hand?
14:24 gmcharlt     back
14:24 kf           hdl might not be available
14:24 kf           I think we shoudl update this list
14:23 kf           http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Website_Administration#git.koha-community.org
14:21 * jcamins    just loses any coherent language selection when overwhelmed... bits of Arabic and Russian start appearing.
14:21 mtompset     I need to practice my Tagalog skills more for when that happens. :)
14:21 chris_n      seems many people's native language is the same or very similar... ;-)
14:20 mtompset     chris_n: Personal experience too. :)
14:20 khall        yeah, git-daemon isn't starting
14:20 chris_n      mtompset: interesting observation
14:19 chris_n      but the site will not load up
14:19 chris_n      ping seems ok
14:19 * chris_n    notes git is down too
14:19 khall        yeah, I know bywater hosts the server, but I'm not sure who adminitrate it
14:19 mtompset     kf: Most people fall back to their native tongue when they are overwhelmed.
14:19 kf           d
14:19 kf           that doesn't look goo
14:17 khall        looks like git.koha-community.org is down, I gave it a reboot, but it failed: startpar: service(s) returned failure: git-daemon git-ultrasphinx git-poller ... failed!
14:15 kf           my brain falls back to german when i get overwhelmed anyway :)
14:14 druthb       An upset German is a fearsome thing.
14:14 druthb       uhoh.  jcamins, you're in trouble.
14:12 mtompset     And the language joke falls flat. ;)
14:11 * kf         promises to talk fast and german to jcamins at kohacon!
14:11 kf           pf.
14:11 jcamins      kf: gesundheit!
14:11 kf           not really general too i guess
14:11 kf           Lesesaalausleihe
14:11 kf           reading room use here i guess
14:10 jcamins      I'm trying to think of a general term for what you're describing. I'd usually call it "supervised use," but that's not really general.
14:10 kf           and the first one is hiding ;)
14:10 jcamins      "In-house use" usually means "this item was used in the library without being checked out."
14:09 talljoy      let me see if I have a git expert in the house.
14:09 jcamins      Joubu: I think the issue with 10860 (pardon the pun) is a language issue.
14:08 talljoy      perks up at her name
14:06 * jcamins    refuses to register a party affiliation, so he's never voted in a primary.
14:05 jcamins      I presume.
14:05 jcamins      All contested positions that are up for election this year.
14:05 mtompset     elections for what?
14:05 jcamins      kf: primary elections are today.
14:05 kf           primaries?
14:05 jcamins      I guess everyone else is off for the primaries.
14:04 jcamins      Someone at ByWater. Maybe talljoy can help?
14:03 kf           oleonard: rangi already did this morning until late
14:03 mtompset     good thing I'm testing tarball. ;)
14:02 kf           hm git still not recovered :(
14:02 mtompset     I agree, blou. :)
14:02 oleonard     Who do we have to poke to ask to poke the git server?
14:02 blou         But "good morning" is more jolly.  Always a nice sense of hope and sunshine for the day coming ahead
14:02 mtompset     Yes, greetings which are unlinked to time work very well too. :)
14:01 oleonard     "Hello" is also nice.
14:01 mtompset     blou: Greetings! I prefer good day, because the 24 hour sense of the word day is always correct. :)
14:01 blou         hi!
14:00 kf           hi blou
14:00 blou         ... afternoon... evening
14:00 blou         good morning!
13:26 vfernandes   there is another syspref?
13:25 vfernandes   in other versions the renews where blocked
13:25 vfernandes   another problem: in koha 3.12 i can renew books that are on hold
13:22 druthb       My company (which doesn't have a thing to do with libraries, actually) is a sponsor of the con already; never know, you might find some odd way to get to go, if you get creative about it.
13:19 mtompset     It would a good opportunity to meet people, and participate in the hackfest portion. Everything else library related would probably go over my head though.
13:19 druthb       :)
13:18 mtompset     druthb: I would not be adverse to that idea. :)
13:17 druthb       kf:   shhhhhhh!  Givin' away my secrets.
13:17 kf           mtompset: she has that on a shortcut I think *rollseyes*
13:16 * druthb     thinks someone oughta sponsor mtompset coming to KohaCon, so she'll have someone to throw Skittles at.
13:15 druthb       :P
13:15 mtompset     druthb: Your reply was too fast for a human. ;)
13:15 * mtompset   cheers kf on. :)
13:15 druthb       kf++
13:14 druthb       ?
13:14 * kf         is in a bug filing frenzy - also known as working through my training notes :)
13:14 mtompset     And now I know you are a skittles bot, druthb. :P
13:14 druthb       morning, mtompset! :)
13:14 mtompset     Greetings, #koha.
13:12 jcamins      tcohen: seems to be.
13:12 talljoy      smoked pens?  with some bacon flavor?
13:12 tcohen       is git down?
13:12 * druthb     wonders how one would do that.  Like fumed oak, maybe?
13:12 druthb       lol
13:11 jcamins      Actual flavor!
13:11 jcamins      For people who chew on their pens.
13:11 jcamins      druthb: I vote for bringing brined pens.
13:11 * druthb     chucks Skittles at jcamins.
13:11 druthb       s/brining/bringing/
13:11 jcamins      Brined pens.
13:11 jcamins      Mmm.
13:10 druthb       talljoy:  I'll be brining my pens with me, so if you want to do some gift-shopping, you'll have your chance.
13:09 druthb       The speed limit on much of the stretch between Houston and Dallas is 120 kph, and my engine will be turning around 2000 rpm for much of that way.  An easy cruise.
13:08 tcohen       nice car
13:08 tcohen       heh
13:08 druthb       tcohen:  I have a 2011 Nissan Sentra.  It *likes* the highway.  good fuel mileage.
13:07 tcohen       what car druthb?
13:07 talljoy      ooooo  romance is in the air.
13:07 druthb       True 'nuf.  And I'll be driving by, even closer, this weekend, on my way up to Denison.
13:06 talljoy      funny we have to go 1500+ miles to see each other when we live just 250-300 miles away!!
13:06 druthb       17th thru 20th.  Just a few days.
13:05 talljoy      how long will you be out there?
13:05 talljoy      oh yay.  i'll get to see you then!!
13:05 druthb       talljoy:  at KohaCon. :)
13:05 tcohen       impress.js
13:05 talljoy      giving a speech druthb?
13:04 druthb       tcohen:  presentation—abbreviation, sorry.  There's a couple of ways I can take this one, and I've not decided which way to go.
13:04 talljoy      hi druthb!!
13:03 tcohen       'preso' like 'jailed'
13:03 druthb       Hi, talljoy! :)
13:03 * druthb     spent some time working on her KohaCon preso last night.
13:01 druthb       Hi, tcohen.  :)
13:00 tcohen       hi druthb
12:58 * druthb     wriggles happily
12:58 kf           hi druthb :)
12:58 druthb       o/
12:55 tcohen       :)
12:54 kf           oleonard-away has gone to bake cake and cookies for the event - I think
12:49 kf           yes - thursday :) bring cake!
12:49 tcohen       so there is a QA party kf?
12:44 kf           good morning tcohen :)
12:43 tcohen       morning #koha
12:35 kf           Joubu: the one with the warning about item already checked out is something one of our libraries have asked for as well :)
12:30 Joubu        oleonard: I will try to explain in a comment asap
12:29 oleonard     That looked like one of those post-library-interview/training bug batches :)
12:28 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5500 major, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , shelf browse changing bib record
12:28 oleonard     Same as Bug 5500?
12:27 huginn`      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10856 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , Improve the previous and next items on the shelf browser
12:27 * oleonard   is curious about Bug 10856 too. Joubu?
12:26 kf           hi oleonard :)
12:24 oleonard     Hi #koha
11:02 kf           time for lunch - bbl :)
11:01 kf           mtj: just wanted to get it out fast now - because it's only 2 days away :)
11:00 kf           mtj++ - thx for setting up a page
10:58 mtj_         yeah, too quick :)
10:54 kf           ah now he was a little too fast for me :)
10:54 connor_dewar Seeya everyone iv gota get to bed. Thanks #kf
10:52 connor_dewar and trying to set up koha
10:52 connor_dewar with some php and ruby
10:52 connor_dewar i have but mainly iv been expanding my coding horizons
10:51 mtj_         hey connor, have you been experimenting more with pygame?
10:50 mtj_         kf, thanks for helping me with the qa-sprint wiki page
10:49 connor_dewar hey
10:48 mtj_         heya kf, connor_dewar
10:48 connor_dewar GRANT ALL ON kohadata.* TO 'koha'@'localhost' IDENTIFIED BY '{koha user password}';  this thing?
10:48 kf           if the mysql user has to be a real user... so maybe it's easier to change the conf file to match
10:47 kf           hm not sure really right now
10:47 kf           it has kohaadmin - you said koha earlier :) - I think maybe modify and run the grant permissions again
10:47 kf           <user>kohaadmin</user><pass>katikoan</pass>
10:47 kf           i think your user and password are probably wrong:
10:46 kf           look for mysql
10:43 connor_dewar what am i looking for?
10:43 connor_dewar http://pastebin.com/UbTm1Sua here it is
10:41 kf           there are multiple passwords in there - os have to be a bit careful to see the right one
10:41 kf           the xml one
10:41 connor_dewar koha httpd conf or koha conf xml
10:41 kf           did you have koha installed on this machine before?
10:40 kf           i think run now, but I guess it won't fix
10:40 connor_dewar i thought it just said id need them later
10:39 kf           can#t check currently
10:39 connor_dewar oh . i didnt run them'
10:39 kf           it's in .... koha-dev/etc? i think?
10:39 kf           next i would check the koha-conf file
10:39 kf           ok
10:39 kf           did you run the export commands at the end of the make install run?
10:39 connor_dewar yup that connects fine
10:38 kf           mysql -u koha -p kohadata
10:38 kf           did the mysql command work and connect?
10:38 connor_dewar i did give kohadata and i did use dev
10:38 kf           you did a dev installation?
10:37 kf           when you ran the makefile, did you give kohadata as the name of your db?
10:37 connor_dewar hmm i did this: GRANT ALL ON kohadata.* TO 'koha'@'localhost' IDENTIFIED BY '{koha user password}';
10:37 kf           and can check if that's what is in the koha-conf.xml file
10:36 kf           then you know the right connection data
10:36 kf           first thing i would try is using mysql -u <user> -p  <database> and see if you can log in
10:36 kf           maybe when you created the database you forgot to grant permissions?
10:36 kf           connor_dewar: database most probably really
10:35 vfernandes   for example I have a patron with 1.5€ of fines where the due date is 2013-09-05
10:34 vfernandes   kf - fines.pl is calculating one day less
10:33 connor_dewar appears it might be a login issue? it aborted at Auth.pm
10:31 kf           I think
10:31 kf           so far othing needed the database
10:30 connor_dewar which is odd. .. i think
10:30 connor_dewar i didnt get any other errors
10:29 connor_dewar hmm ill have a look at what i did and see
10:29 kf           connor_dewar: not sure, maybe you got your connection data to the database not quite right
10:29 vfernandes   kf - no errors this time
10:28 kf           hm
10:26 connor_dewar so the instruictions said to go to:http://127.0.1.1:8080/ and i got:  http://pastebin.com/aFhWWh6i
10:19 huginn`      drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 15.2°C (12:13 PM CEST on September 10, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 70%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Steady).
10:19 drojf        @wunder berlin, germany
10:16 vfernandes   wait... I'm running it
10:16 vfernandes   it writes the log file, but gives a little erro with Koha::Calendar
10:15 kf           what happens when you run fines.pl with -v?
10:15 vfernandes   calculate and charge
10:14 wahanui      system preference is, like, ReservesMaxPickUpDelay
10:14 kf           system preference
10:14 vfernandes   finesmode?
10:14 kf           hi drojf :)
10:14 kf           what about finesmode?
10:13 vfernandes   days
10:13 kf           vfernandes: hours or days as unit?
10:12 drojf        hi #koha
10:12 vfernandes   grace period = 0, fine interval = 1... the due date was 2013-09-09 23:59 and the script runned at 2013-09-10 01:00
10:12 kf           is the system prefrence finesmode activated?
10:11 kf           what's your grace period? what's your fine interval?
10:11 vfernandes   maybe because of the hours...
10:11 vfernandes   I think the days aren't being correctly calculated
10:10 vfernandes   manually I done a checkout where the due date was yesterday... the script fines.pl run everynigth, but the fine wasn't calculated, and it should be 0.50€
10:09 vfernandes   related to fines I have another problem
10:07 kf           vfernandes: it should not happen - but maybe check the fine related system preferences to se fi they make a difference? there are quite a few related to blocks in circ and messages
10:06 kf           vfernandes:  i have not seen any bug report yet
10:06 vfernandes   anyone had my problem?
10:03 connor_dewar ahhh that makes sense
10:03 connor_dewar ohkay
10:00 kf           the other make test i think
10:00 kf           ah the first is the end of make install
09:59 kf           hm but it ended with all tests successful?
09:59 kf           sec
09:51 connor_dewar just the last page of what i did get
09:49 connor_dewar what i shpouldve got: http://pastebin.com/Uq0vBq8t  . what i did get: http://pastebin.com/tij0kXpK
09:47 * kf         stopped - only clicked on a link then realized why it didn't work
09:47 rangi        re git
09:47 rangi        the more people hit it, the harder it is to get back
09:46 connor_dewar hmm possibly an issue . i ran: make test . and it said all tests passed but the atricle says i should get code similar to this. but mine is not simmilar at all :/
09:44 kf           hm seems git is still ... on vacation
09:43 kf           :)
09:43 connor_dewar haha i have info from the creator in the room why not use it :)
09:41 kf           ;)
09:41 * kf         thinks connor_dewar is cheating :P
09:40 connor_dewar Mum also said they chose just because they needed a name and it was a nice word :)
09:40 kf           and http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/The_Koha_Logo_:_Origins_and_Explanation :)
09:40 kf           http://journal.code4lib.org/articles/1638
09:40 Herwig       oki
09:40 kf           Herwig: there is also a nice article about koha ... let me find it
09:39 vfernandes   ?
09:39 Herwig       thx for the info i'm reading ;)
09:39 vfernandes   »
09:39 vfernandes   there is any bug related to this
09:39 connor_dewar words from the creators mouth : a gift with strings. our gift to the world :)
09:39 vfernandes   the checkouts are blocked to patrons with fines
09:38 vfernandes   today when trying in koha 3.12 to checkout an item to a patron with charges the system gives an empty error message
09:38 kf           http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koha_%28custom%29 - not sure how accurate :)
09:38 connor_dewar yes to the extent of my knowledge its just a donation.Quote:  koha      (noun) gift, present, offering, donation, contribution.
09:37 Herwig       have ademo of our koha this afthernoon so i just ask ;)
09:37 kf           so not an abbreviation for something, i have heard the translation gift too
09:37 Herwig       ok
09:37 Herwig       ow :)
09:36 kf           Herwig: it's a word from the maori language (connor can probably explain better)
09:36 vfernandes   hi :)
09:36 connor_dewar i beleive a koha is a donation?
09:35 Herwig       Hey koha ... question where does the name Koha stands for  ... ? or is it just a name
09:28 connor_dewar thanks will get back to you :)
09:28 kf           i think you can safely continue :)
09:28 connor_dewar oh cool :)
09:27 kf           all those shoudl not give you problems
09:27 kf           ah maybe your version is a bit different to the listed requirement
09:27 connor_dewar already newest version?
09:27 connor_dewar http://pastebin.com/zPnm4NZv
09:25 kf           often you can add lib at the beginning and -perl at the end :)
09:25 connor_dewar no ill try it
09:25 kf           have you tried apt-get install libtest-www-mechanize-perl?
09:25 kf           and the last one is I think used for the test suite maybe
09:25 kf           Archive::Extract is also only used by one feature.... i think the plugin system, so you can ignore it for now
09:24 kf           you don't need that
09:24 kf           Data::Pagination is ony for SOLR
09:23 connor_dewar so i see im missing/arnt updated those modules but i am unsure how to get/upgrade them
09:22 connor_dewar try this: http://pastebin.com/9S4eHRvA
09:20 connor_dewar its going a bit slow , probably my internet
09:18 wahanui      paste is, like, found at http://paste.koha-community.org
09:18 kf           paste?
09:18 kf           ah, I will wait for the paste .)
09:18 kf           have you isntalled the koha-common package?
09:17 connor_dewar well i ran the code: ./koha_perl_deps.pl -m -u to check for perl dependincies and it gave me this : (ill try use the past page)
09:15 kf           where are you stuck connor_dewar?
09:14 connor_dewar Hello :) could you give me a hand with installing koha?
09:14 kf           hi mtj and connor_dewar :)
09:05 Viktor       Morning kf!
09:04 kf           good morning Viktor
09:00 * kf         waves to liw
08:57 liw          rangi, good luck!
07:50 kf           [off] fingers crossed - hope it ends well
07:47 rangi        [off] i checked with lawyers i was allowed to say that
07:46 rangi        [off] trademark hearing on 23rd october, hopefully this will be the end of it
07:39 rangi        didnt miss anything
07:34 kf           [off] hm must have deleted it already
07:32 rangi        [off] koha mailing list
07:30 kf           [off] hm?
07:29 rangi        [off] hmmm how to reply to someone, who has answered his own question, when asking the question
07:29 rangi        yep
07:28 kf           ah, out of memory?
07:28 kf           OOM?
07:28 rangi        can't ssh to it either, gonna need a kick i think, probably OOM
07:26 kf           morning
07:26 rangi        evening
07:26 rangi        yep looks down to me
06:48 cait         it starts raining when i have to leave to work... doesn't it always?
06:47 cait         course
06:47 cait         hm of coruse
06:42 cait         hm is git down?
06:31 wahanui      hey, reiveune
06:31 reiveune     hello
04:23 wizzyrea     later :)
04:23 mtompset     Bye, dcook wizzyrea ducnq.
04:22 mtompset     Have a great day (24 hour period), #koha. :)
04:22 * mtompset   rummages around for the skittles gun. ;)
03:51 wizzyrea     shoot :)
03:49 ducnq        so need to help from all of you
03:49 ducnq        I'm starting to learn about koha
03:49 wahanui      bonjour, ducnq
03:49 ducnq        hi
03:48 eythian      hello ducnq
03:46 ducnq        nice to meet all you
03:46 ducnq        I'm new member
03:46 ducnq        hello
03:39 dcook        Yeah, I get the head exploding thing :p
03:19 mtompset     It's data structure intensive reading.
03:19 mtompset     probably because their head is exploding like mine reading the code. ;)
03:19 mtompset     So, basically... the person who implemented OpacHiddenItems... failed to get opac/opac-MARCdetail.pl
03:18 mtompset     That's okay.
03:18 dcook        I don't think I have anything that could work at the moment on my dev site and might be a bit too tired to make anything
03:18 dcook        Yep. Certainly a bug in 3.8.0.
03:16 dcook        Hmm, I might have something that fits the bill
03:14 mtompset     look it up in the OPAC. normal view... partially hidden as expected. MARC view... fully listed.
03:14 mtompset     you need a biblio record with multiple items some of which are hidden using OpacHiddenItems. :)
03:13 mtompset     dcook... care to confirm a bug for me?
03:12 mtompset     Yep, the response for my name is still true.
03:12 wahanui      i think dcook is missing part of that original link due to a smiley face that comes up in dcook's IRC client
03:12 mtompset     dcook?
03:12 mtompset     Greetings, dcook.
03:12 wahanui      somebody said mtompset was disliking finding bugs while testing.
03:12 dcook        hey mtompset
03:03 mtompset     Greetings, #koha.
01:31 dcook        I'm just grumpy.
01:31 dcook        Well, not really.
01:30 dcook        Note to self: Don't add new features to Koha.
01:28 dcook        Hmm
01:28 jcamins      dcook: yeah, something to demonstrate that the entire Z39.50 stack is working both now and after you're done.
01:27 dcook        jcamins: Integration test?
01:27 dcook        Hmm?
01:26 jcamins      Except actually, you have to write an integration test first either way.
01:26 dcook        Seems like it
01:26 jcamins      dcook: six or one half dozen.
01:26 dcook        Then writing the unit test
01:26 * dcook      wonders which is more difficult...writing a unit test for Breeding.pm or just re-writing how remote Z39.50 searching is done...
01:22 jcamins      So I had to avoid it all. :P
01:22 jcamins      No.
01:22 dcook        :p
01:22 dcook        There was good music in the '90s?
01:22 jcamins      :P
01:22 jcamins      dcook: avoiding bad music.
01:22 * dcook      wonders where jcamins was in the '90s
01:22 dcook        O_O
01:21 jcamins      wizzyrea: might be. I heard the original song only after the fixed version.
01:21 dcook        That sounds familiar
01:20 dcook        Could be
01:20 dcook        Hmm
01:20 wizzyrea     like that was the point from the get go.
01:20 wizzyrea     I thought the whole deal of the song ironic was that it wasn't actually ironic.
01:20 dcook        I found a script that had the more recent snippet as well
01:20 dcook        Thanks though :)
01:20 dcook        Yeah, I saw that before.
01:19 mtj          dcook:  -> http://git.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=koha.git;a=blob;f=LICENSE
00:34 dcook        I know I have an example somewhere..
00:34 dcook        Hmm
00:34 wahanui      gpl3 is rangi's default
00:34 dcook        gpl3?
00:34 wahanui      i heard gpl3 was rangi's default
00:34 dcook        gpl3?
00:30 dcook        Thanks
00:30 dcook        hehe
00:30 jcamins      And non-ironic.
00:30 jcamins      That's correct.
00:30 dcook        When fixing something something during the QA process...you keep your new versions as signed off still?
00:29 dcook        Hmm quick question
00:28 dcook        I'm going to go do something productive now though :p
00:27 dcook        Maybe I"m being too literal in how I'm interpretting "start smoking"
00:27 dcook        You stop smoking, get a sign, start smoking, but can't smoke, because of the sign.
00:27 dcook        The smoking one and the couple's therapy one
00:26 jcamins      Oh?
00:26 dcook        I'm not sure that I get some of their examples either
00:23 jcamins      A lot of the ironic bits are kind of slurred, though, in order to fit them in.
00:23 jcamins      dcook: the redo actually is ironic.
00:23 dcook        Mmm maybe it is
00:22 dcook        Maybe I'm not listening closely enough to that redux but...I still don't think it's ironic
00:21 huginn`      dcook: The operation succeeded.
00:21 dcook        @later tell tcohen Who doesn't enjoy Sigur Ros? :P
00:20 tcohen       dinner time, bye dcook, and listen to Sigur Ros, icelandic post-rock band.
00:17 tcohen       http://mashable.com/2013/07/19/ironic/
00:17 dcook        Funny how almost every Canadian male celebrity says that...:p
00:17 dcook        "Bublé had a strong passion for ice hockey and wanted to become a professional ice hockey player for the Vancouver Canucks growing up..."
00:17 dcook        Gotta love Alanis ;)
00:16 dcook        Hmm, didn't know that Michael Bublé was Canadian...
00:16 tcohen       not-ironic Alanis?
00:16 dcook        We try to pretend that Justin Bieber is American...
00:16 dcook        Mostly recent ones
00:15 dcook        Maybe
00:15 dcook        Actually, there are heaps of Canadian bands I like
00:15 dcook        I haven't listened enough to Neil Young to really make an informed opinion
00:15 dcook        That's what I hear :p
00:15 ibeardslee   dcook: Neil Young
00:15 tcohen       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fBbKtq_Li8
00:15 dcook        I'm sure they exist
00:15 tcohen       is "Ladies and gents" an australian expression? or just powderfinger?
00:15 * dcook      tries to think of a good Canadian musician
00:15 dcook        Actually...
00:14 dcook        ibeardslee: Same thing happens to me with Canada ;)
00:14 dcook        They'll have an amazing clear singing voice, but have the thickest accent when speaking
00:14 ibeardslee   heh .. mind you I have been surprised on more than one occasion .. oh that's a kiwi band?  I think that sometimes we just forget how awesome we are ;)
00:14 dcook        Although sometimes hearing a singer sing and then speak...is so bizarre
00:14 dcook        Lots of good music in Australia though
00:13 dcook        I just figure everything is American
00:13 * dcook      had no idea that Savage Garden was Australian until his wife lectured him one night on the bus :p
00:11 tcohen       didn't remember it was from Oceania :-P
00:11 tcohen       its australian
00:11 tcohen       hey, I also have a Powderfinger CD :-D
00:10 dcook        Ahh
00:10 ibeardslee   Kiwi record label
00:09 dcook        Flying nun?
00:09 ibeardslee   A lot of videos on here .. http://www.nzonscreen.com/watch/music-video
00:09 dcook        Not that I'm criticizing either
00:08 dcook        I think my only exposure to NZ music has been from #koha and Lorde :p
00:06 tcohen       the only nz music i knew was Bic Runga
00:06 dcook        Interesting how 2013 doesn't seem all that different from 1979 in some ways
00:05 ibeardslee   :)
00:05 dcook        I'll never think of that expression the same way again
00:05 tcohen       interesting it is from 1979
00:01 ibeardslee   dcook: .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2mmD9ubjzM