Time Nick Message 00:03 tcohen bye #koha, gotta cook tonight 00:03 dcook mmm food 00:03 dcook Right, openshift.. 00:08 mtompset where in the .git/config file do I put the alias suggested by http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Git_bz_configuration#Signing_off_2? 00:08 mtompset in the [core] section? 00:08 jcamins https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Aliases 00:09 mtompset Ah, add an [alias] section. 00:10 dcook Hmm... 00:10 * dcook wonders if he has done this 00:10 dcook I must've as my sign offs include my name/email.. 00:11 dcook Hmm, not noticing it.. 00:11 dcook Oh...durrr 00:11 dcook nevermind 00:11 dcook Pays to read the whole page.. 01:41 mtompset I'm calling it a day. Have a great day, #koha. 04:03 mtj peeps, could i get some advice about which caching method to use for Koha? 04:03 mtj is the memoize stuff the preference? 04:05 mtj i have my 'carousel' feature using a hardcoded '127.0.0.1' memcached server 04:05 mtj but before i submit the patch, i need to fix this 04:06 wizzyrea mtj you missed a most epic discussion of this from earlier 04:06 wizzyrea you might want to catch the log 04:06 wizzyrea from about... 8-10 this morning 04:06 mtj yeah, i spotted it wiz 04:06 wizzyrea cool 04:06 mtj which was very topical for me :) 04:07 wizzyrea what's the feature do? 04:08 mtj -> demo.calyx.net.au 04:09 mtj ...it displays 'recently added' items to the OPAC 04:09 wizzyrea pretty :) 04:09 dcook mtj++ 04:09 mtj its queries OpenLibrary for each ISBN and stored the success/fail in memcached 04:10 mtj so, 1st load takes 30 seconds.. :/ 04:10 mtj but 2nd load takes 0.05 seconds :) 04:12 wizzyrea neat! 04:14 wizzyrea there are about a zillion of these fancy things out now 04:14 mtj yeah, would be nice to give Koha a working default one 04:15 dcook True that 04:15 wizzyrea it'd have to be a super flexible one :/ 04:16 wizzyrea can you imagine - "I want two rows of three, auto moving after 10 seconds, that stops when I hover" 04:16 wizzyrea vs "I want a slick 3D interface that ... " etc etc etc 04:17 wizzyrea so either it will be really flexible, or it will be easily replaceable 04:17 * wizzyrea is not really naysaying 04:17 wizzyrea it sounds like it but i'm not 04:17 dcook Just...realistic 04:17 wizzyrea it's just... people have crazy ideas about thsi stuff 04:18 mtj naw…. just a feature that can be disabled ;) 04:19 mtj problemo solved 04:21 mtj so, i think im looking for good examples of Koha::Cache stuff now 04:24 dcook On a completely unrelated note, I wonder if we handle the "Deleted" record status for position 5 of the Leader... 04:24 * dcook has his doubts 04:30 mtj heres a genuine Q - how do i enable 'Koha::Cache' to get 'prove -v ./t/Cache.t' to pass 04:31 pastebot "mtj" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "prove -v ./t/Cache.t" (39 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/181 04:32 mtj . 04:32 mtj oops, i think i know 05:16 dcook hey ya cait :) 05:16 dcook brb, lunchtime... 05:16 cait ok :) 05:19 dcook back ^_^ 05:19 cait hm seriously? 05:19 cait what was for lunch 05:19 cait ? 05:20 dcook Well, I'm eating it presently 05:20 dcook Just sandwiches 05:20 dcook I am tempted to read Akira...but want to keep working at the same time 05:20 * dcook made it to the library in time to grab the last 5 volumes of the manga :D 05:20 cait heh 05:20 cait you shouldn't work and eat 05:20 cait poeple keep telling me that 05:21 dcook They're probably right 05:21 dcook I occasionally go to the park in the summer or the public library around the corner 05:22 dcook But...I'm a bit focussed 05:22 dcook Maybe too focussed.. 05:25 dcook Hmm 05:25 dcook Maybe you can answer me a question 05:26 cait maybe :) 05:26 dcook With your union catalogue, does the "control_number" column in the "import_biblios" table get used? 05:33 dcook I'm trying to figure out the matching for this OAI-PMH harvester 05:33 dcook At the moment, I'm just looking at "matched_biblio", but if control_number is useful too, I'll try to build that in 06:12 cait dcook: it's never filled no - not sure why it is not 06:12 dcook cait: Thanks. 06:13 dcook No idea. I just saw it in the DB so I thought I'd ask :) 06:13 cait i only recently discovered it existed :) 06:13 dcook Same :) 06:13 cait it would be useful sometimes for querying things faster 06:13 cait but it's not high on my priority list to fix 06:14 dcook I wonder if this will work in your context then.. 06:14 dcook So you have your union catalogue 06:14 dcook It imports records from other sources 06:14 dcook Actually, the other sources don't matter so much 06:14 dcook In your union catalogue, do you use the 001 and the 999? 06:15 cait hm i think there is a misunderstanding :) 06:15 dcook Could well be :) 06:15 cait the union catalog is the main cataloguing platform 06:15 cait and we import from there into koha 06:15 dcook O_o 06:15 cait guess that means there was one? 06:16 dcook ? 06:16 * dcook is using fewer and fewer characters apparently :p 06:16 cait so the libraries first attach their holdings in the union catalog or create a new record there 06:16 cait then they use z39.50 or wait for the nightly import 06:16 cait and it would be nice if the nightly import could be replaced with something like oai one day 06:17 dcook I hope I can help out with that :) 06:17 cait maybe 06:17 dcook So...the union catalog...what is it exactly? 06:17 dcook What system? 06:17 wahanui system is running nothing else... 06:17 cait in what terms? 06:17 cait the software name is PICA i think 06:17 dcook Is it another instance of Koha or is it a different ILS or a different piece of software all together 06:17 dcook Mmm 06:18 cait i like koha, but koha couldn't really handle what the union catalog does 06:18 dcook OCLC? 06:18 wahanui OCLC is probably proof of how well *that* works. Bah. 06:18 cait sec 06:19 dcook "OCLC PICA software is used by the Netherlands union catalog, several German library consortia (including GBV, Hebis and SWB), the Australian national library, the French union catalog SUDOC and many other libraries. Sisis and Fretwell-Downing also have many notable customers in Germany, the UK and worldwide." 06:21 cait well, not sure what you want to know really :) 06:22 dcook I think I understand now :) 06:22 dcook If I understand correctly, it's like a more localized version of Worldcat? 06:22 cait hm maybe 06:22 dcook Or a union catalogue belonging to a cataloguing cooperative 06:23 * dcook thought about creating a union catalogue for legal bibliographic records in Canada but ended up moving to Australia 06:23 cait cooperative cataloguing and ILL are the main points i think 06:23 dcook Then you import into Koha when you want a record for an item 06:24 cait basically yes 06:24 dcook In some cases, you'd copy catalogue, and in some cases you'd catalogue in PICA then download into Koha 06:24 dcook Makes sense 06:24 cait or we import a packages of ebooks 06:24 dcook When I was at the provincial library in Saskatchewan, they did that as well 06:24 cait basically we update Koha every night 06:24 cait with the records that have been changed in the union catalog 06:24 cait or added 06:24 cait when you want to finish your catalouging it's easier to use z39.50 and download the record immediately of course 06:24 dcook Does your Koha have all the same records as the union catalogue? 06:24 cait but at night the import will add the authorities to the system 06:25 cait and also provide a record that has been cleaned up a bit to better work in Koha 06:25 cait all the records that the library has added holdings for 06:26 cait we can only automatically grabthose, they can of course download other records too 06:26 dcook Hmm, if PICA includes all of your records in an OAI set...that could work 06:27 cait i don't know if it can, we didn't investigate so far 06:27 dcook Mmm, I see 06:27 cait right now it works quite well as it is 06:27 dcook Well, I'll keep it in the back of my mind 06:27 dcook Sounds like it 06:27 wahanui Sounds like it is beer o'clock for you dcook? ;) 06:28 dcook Almost, wahanui 06:28 wahanui dcook: what? 06:28 dcook :( 06:28 dcook How does the automatic grab happen? 06:28 dcook Z39.50 or a bulk export/import of MARC records? 06:28 cait we get the marc data from an ftp server 06:29 cait the records for each library get provided there by the union catalog every night 06:29 cait and then we have scripts using the staged marc import tools 06:29 dcook Using the 001 as a matcher, I imagine? 06:30 dcook I'm using some of the staged marc import tools. Just trying to figure out the best way of managing the replacement of records. 06:31 * magnuse waves 06:31 dcook hey ya magnuse :) 06:31 * magnuse will soon have to deal with a situation like that too 06:31 magnuse hiya dcook and cait 06:32 cait dcook: yes, using 001 06:32 dcook magnuse: Oh? 06:33 * dcook almost wonders if he should've waited for someone smarter than himself to design a more elegant system :p 06:33 magnuse don't wait for me, then :-) 06:33 dcook cait: So when the record is in Koha, it has the same number in the 001 and the 999$c and 999$d? 06:33 dcook magnuse: You're too modest :p 06:33 cait no 06:33 cait for marc21 we don't overwrite 001 with the bibnumber currently 06:33 cait i think unimarc does, but not sure 06:34 magnuse Viktor wants a system like that, where records are fetched and imported into Koha, but he wants it to happen almost instantly, when there are records available 06:34 cait we could also switch to 035 maybe, as the number is there too 06:34 cait dcook: we link records in hierarchies 06:34 magnuse the provider has been talking about pubsubhubbub, but i don't think that is in place yet 06:34 cait dcook: in order to do that, 001 is used with $w subfields 06:35 cait if we put the biblionumber in 001.... it would break 06:35 rangi magnuse: so polling? or does the union catalogue have some kinda stream you can listen to? 06:35 magnuse rangi: not sure about the details yet... 06:35 cait evening rangi 06:35 rangi i mean, it mostly has to happen on their end 06:35 magnuse and evening rangi 06:36 rangi because they have to have someway of us knowing new records exist 06:36 rangi and then the rest is easy peasy 06:36 rangi evening 06:36 magnuse yeah, i think we will use a simpler solution until the provider/union catalogue has worked out the details for the fancy solution :-) 06:36 dcook cait: I think I follow. I imagine that 001 must have an OCLC control number... 06:37 cait we have our own 06:37 dcook Interesting. I've wondered recently about the difference between a control number and a bib number are 06:37 cait we also have oclc identifiers in our data tho - because we deliver data to oclc and then we add the identifiers to the records 06:38 cait but 001 has the PPN - pica production number I think 06:38 dcook Hmm, does Voyager use the 001 for the bib number.. 06:39 cait so the internal record number from the union catalog 06:39 dcook Right. 06:41 dcook It seems like the 001 is one of those fields that gets treated differently by different libraries 06:41 cait that's probably true 06:42 marcelr good morning #koha 06:43 dcook hey ya marcelr 06:43 dcook cait: It looks like the authorities put their authority # in the 001 06:43 dcook I think ideally Koha should probably put the bib number in the 001, but...*shrug* 06:44 dcook Reality and ideals aren't always the same thing 06:44 magnuse there's a bug for that 06:44 dcook It shouldn't matter in my case anyway, as I'll just pass the biblionumber to the XSLT and let people choose which field they want to use.. 06:44 dcook magnuse: Yeah? It seems like it would break the workflow for folks like cait and I'm sure others though :/ 06:44 dcook I suppose if you could turn it on/off... 06:44 magnuse bug 9921 06:45 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9921 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nunyo, Needs Signoff , Make it possible to force 001 = biblionumber 06:45 dcook But that wouldn't necessarily work so well either 06:45 cait it would indeed break our record linking 06:45 magnuse yeah, it definitely needs a syspref that defaults to off 06:45 dcook I guess if Koha used 999 internally still but put the bib number in the 001 as well.. 06:45 cait and it would be really hard to fix that 06:45 dcook For sure 06:45 rangi im not sure why you would ever do that 06:45 dcook I think I had someone recently ask for the 001 to have the bib number 06:45 rangi it is a unique number 06:46 rangi for use only by koha 06:46 cait rangi: hm do what? 06:46 wahanui do is just a loop with the condition at the end 06:46 rangi why do librarians have to break everything!! 06:46 dcook hehe 06:46 rangi humans should not see know or care about biblionumbers 06:46 rangi just like itemnumbers 06:46 dcook True, but 001 is more standard than 999 06:46 rangi its unique to precisely your installation, and means nothing outside of koha 06:46 rangi 999 is for localuse 06:46 rangi 001 isnt 06:47 dcook But if you're designing a system th at uses a record's ID 06:47 dcook Actually, 001 should be 06:47 rangi the record id should be different to biblionumber 06:47 magnuse the norwegian national library harvests records for a national meta-search, they in effect demand to find the biblionumber in 001 06:47 dcook "Contains the control number assigned by the organization creating, using, or distributing the record." 06:47 rangi exactly 06:47 rangi not the software creating a row in a db table 06:48 cait well enforcing biblionumbr would be bad for us - so I am not for that :) and now i have to run! 06:48 cait cya all a little later 06:48 dcook ta ta cait 06:48 dcook Hmm 06:49 dcook Actually, you could argue that biblionumber isn't just used "internally" per se 06:49 rangi ie the control number should be purposefully assigned, not an accidentally assigned database primary key 06:49 dcook As we put it in the URLs 06:49 dcook You're probably right, rangi 06:49 rangi but it only makes sense for koha 06:49 dcook But in that case, we should probably use record/control ids for access rather than primary keys 06:49 magnuse i had to come up with this to comply with the nat lib demands: https://gist.github.com/MagnusEnger/1918264 06:49 rangi you cant give me a biblionumber and have it match the same record in my catalogue 06:50 rangi it means exactly nothing, outside of your koha 06:50 dcook Mmm, I saw that, magnuse. 06:50 dcook rangi: Your Koha isn't necessarily a silo though. 06:50 dcook It's the one unique identifier that people outside the system can use to find it 06:51 magnuse but do we have a scheme for globally unique identifiers to put in 001? 06:51 magnuse rdf/linked data solves so many problems... 06:51 dcook magnuse++ 06:51 rangi its only locally unique dcook 06:51 rangi thats the problem 06:51 dcook True true 06:51 dcook There really should be a scheme for globally unique identifiers 06:52 marcelr bug 9921 06:52 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9921 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nunyo, Needs Signoff , Make it possible to force 001 = biblionumber 06:52 marcelr the title is not really good 06:52 magnuse dcook: there is one: the URI 06:53 reiveune hello 06:53 marcelr hi reiveune 06:53 dcook Right. Looking forward to the move to linked data/rdf 06:53 dcook salut reiveune 06:53 magnuse :-) 06:53 reiveune salut marcelr, dcook, magnuse :) 06:53 dcook rangi: To be honest, in the end, I only really care insofar as I'm able to meet the needs of my librarians 06:54 dcook The one who asked me most recently probably is encountering a similar situation to magnuse 06:54 rangi yep, i care that your needs dont break others needs ;-) too much of that has happened in koha 06:54 dcook Mmm, also true 06:54 marcelr dcook: it should just be one way to fill 001 06:54 dcook marcelr: Agreed 06:54 marcelr and leave room for other ways 06:54 * dcook nods 06:54 dcook Couldn't agree more :) 06:55 * dcook has 6 minutes to figure out his other problem.. 06:55 dcook The OAI-PMH unique identifiers seem all right 06:55 dcook Although matching them in Koha looks like a no go because of the colons 06:55 dcook The current plan.. 06:56 alex_a salut 06:56 wahanui privet, alex_a 06:57 dcook Use the OAI-PMH unique identifier to find if that record has been imported in the past...if it has and the incoming record has an updated datestamp...use the import_record_id of that record to look up the matched_biblionumber...and put that into the incoming record for matching the 999$c or 999$d 06:57 dcook Roundabout...but it's the only idea I've got at this point 06:58 dcook Whew. Figured the problem out in 4 minutes.. 07:03 magnuse yay! 07:04 gaetan_B hello 07:04 wahanui hi, gaetan_B 07:04 dcook At some point, I probably should just post it on Bugzilla so people can tell me how Idea #3 and Idea #5 are completely ridiculous ;) 07:05 dcook bonjour gaetan_B :) 07:05 gaetan_B bonjour :) 07:05 magnuse yay for Bug 10775 07:05 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10775 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Create humans.txt from the history document 07:06 dcook wizzyrea++ 07:06 dcook Great idea :) 07:09 dcook Ok, I should probably take off 07:09 dcook Got to the library in time last night btw 07:10 dcook Barely but got there ^_^ 07:11 magnuse yay! 07:11 rangi right, ive had it with bad instruction wiki guy 07:11 * rangi volleys his serve back 07:11 * dcook looks forward to reading rangi's response 07:11 magnuse yay 07:13 dcook All right. Must leave. Can't stay. Sort of want to stay. Must go! 07:13 dcook Cheers everyone :) 07:13 rangi not too mean i hope 07:13 magnuse ah, he made it out in time :-) 07:14 magnuse nope, very civil 07:16 rangi hmm not sure how the humans.txt would work 07:16 rangi i think its supposed to be site specific? 07:16 magnuse i think for me, the main question is: why not contribute to the official wiki? having lots of half baked instructions all over the place is not good for anyone 07:16 rangi yeah 07:16 marcelr rangi: i must have missed more emails from the bad wiki guy? 07:17 rangi there's a few in the last few days 07:17 magnuse rangi: the way i understood it, it could just be ralted to the software that runs the site 07:17 rangi magnuse: i totally should have made that point 07:17 rangi magnuse: ahh ok, that makes more sense 07:17 magnuse s/ralted/related/ 07:18 marcelr magnuse: is the idea then: create it from history.txt? 07:18 magnuse marcelr: i think that is wizzyrea's plan, yeah 07:19 magnuse plus probably a hat tip to things we use, like jquery etc 07:20 kf back 07:20 magnuse wb kf 07:22 rangi hi kf 07:25 kf hi magnuse and rangi :) 07:28 marcelr hi kf 07:28 kf hi marcelr 07:29 kf sorry that you can't make the meeting - but i think we are going to ahve another some time soon if it turns out useful 07:32 mtj hi all 07:34 marcelr kf: yes too bad; i saw no specific agenda items btw? 07:34 marcelr hi mtj 07:34 kf hi mtj 07:34 kf i have only added gbsd so far, but may add some more today 07:34 magnuse marcelr: patches are welcome ;-) 07:34 kf everyone can add agenda items 07:35 marcelr magnuse: there will always be patches :) 07:36 rangi marcelr: mtompset was talkinga bout these instructions 07:36 marcelr rangi: i just stumbled over that tone, but did not see what was before that 07:36 rangi http://wiki.lib.sun.ac.za/index.php/KOHA 07:37 marcelr but i did not dare to be more specific than oops 07:37 rangi which the person who wrote them has now posted to the list 5 or so times 07:37 rangi and they are really really bad instructions 07:37 marcelr ok 07:37 marcelr he could not be convinced 07:37 rangi nope 07:38 rangi and is now volunteering to talk to the eifl-floss people to .. on koha's behalf 07:38 marcelr oops again 07:38 rangi yeah 07:38 marcelr oops++ 07:38 rangi heh 07:38 marcelr that is oops again 07:42 * magnuse adds his .02$ 07:43 rangi :) 07:46 magnuse this reminds me of http://koha.dk/?p=installation-af-ekstra-sprog, where you can now download danish templates for Koha. huh? 07:46 marcelr magnuse++ why do people always write KOHA 07:47 magnuse because they think it must be an abbreviation, perhaps? 07:48 marcelr i should think about the meaning of that acronym then 07:50 kf marcelr: lots of people here write KoHa - that's even weirder 07:50 marcelr :) 07:52 rangi Depending on the situation, it might be written "koha" or "Koha" or maybe even "KOHA". Writing "kOha" just means you got the shifting out of sync, though. 07:53 rangi < owen> If your vendor calls it KOHA you know it's not really Koha. 07:53 magnuse :-) 07:54 marcelr so bad instructions should really be contexted with KOHA 07:55 magnuse ooh, gbsd starts in ~2 hours, if you choose to go by kiribati-time 07:55 marcelr cool 07:56 mtj hey rangi, i just got the carousel thing running with Koha::Cache :) 07:56 rangi awesoome 07:57 rangi magnuse: not sure how much ill get done this one 07:59 * magnuse neither :-( 08:00 mtj my theory for KOHA spelling - is that its more VISIBLE in emails and text 08:01 magnuse hey, maybe we should change the name to <blink>KOHA</blink>? 08:01 marcelr in color please 08:01 mtj pls frieads HELP my with the my KOHA!! 08:02 marcelr :) 08:02 kf i am nto sure if shouting the name out will help :) 08:02 marcelr remember the plzzz plzzz guy 08:04 mtj plzzZ plszzZ - KOHA keeps falling asleep!! 08:07 * magnuse roots for bug 10240 08:07 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10240 new feature, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Needs Signoff , Offline circulation using HTML5 and IndexedDB 08:07 kf :) 08:07 kf iwill probably be around until 2 or so tomorrow 08:07 kf depending if my familiy visits or not 08:08 * magnuse tries to find ways to delay kf's family ;-) 08:08 kf hey! 08:19 rangi magnuse: ahh well, you tried 08:20 rangi that reply makes no sense 08:25 magnuse nope, but i'll answer him :-) 08:35 rangi magnuse++ 08:35 marcelr magnuse: 166 became 165; unfortunately it moved to failed qa 08:36 magnuse marcelr++ any movement is progress :-) 08:38 drojf good morning #koha 08:39 drojf i see you are having fun on the list ;) 08:42 marcelr hi drojf 08:42 drojf hi marcelr 08:42 magnuse moin drojf 08:43 drojf hei magnuse 08:43 magnuse there is always some fun to be had in Koha-land :-) 08:48 * magnuse throws http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/How_was_my_Koha_installed out there and hopes people will contribute 08:49 rangi :) 08:50 magnuse kia ora khall 08:50 magnuse rangi: not sure what is the best way to distinguish between a tarball and a git install... 08:52 rangi hmm 08:53 rangi yeah 08:55 drojf check if there is a .git folder in whereever koha-conf.xml points at? 08:56 rangi that would do it 08:57 magnuse and the prize for best suggestion is... the pleasure of adding it to the wiki page! ;-) 08:57 rangi hehe 09:01 drojf <intranetdir> is the koha root folder for git installations, so that's probably the best one to try? 09:03 drojf look what i stole from eythian… 09:04 drojf sudo xmlstarlet sel -t -v 'yazgfs/config/intranetdir' /etc/koha/sites/koha/koha-conf.xml 09:04 drojf now somebody make that check for .git ;) 09:05 rangi :) 09:21 magnuse hah, i knew it! that swedish system with multiple barcodes per item? it also has multiple barcodes per patron. awesome! 09:21 rangi lol 09:22 rangi someones first database 09:22 rangi referential integrity.... what's that? 09:22 drojf :) 09:25 rangi magnuse: http://kohadevreactions.tumblr.com/post/58848751862/just-found-out-that-they-subtly-changed-how 09:28 magnuse lol 09:31 drojf by the god of bash script noobness, this looks like it works for me 09:31 drojf kohapath=$(sudo xmlstarlet sel -t -v 'yazgfs/config/intranetdir' /etc/koha/sites/koha/koha-conf.xml); if [ -d $kohapath/.git ]; then echo "Looks like a git installation."; else echo "Looks like a tarball installation.";fi 09:32 rangi yep 09:32 magnuse but if you have a dev install there will probably not be a /etc/koha/sites/koha/koha-conf.xml ? 09:32 rangi but only the packages put stuff in /etc/koha/sites 09:33 rangi what he said :) 09:33 drojf no you have to put the path to your file 09:33 drojf of course 09:33 drojf the instance could have a different name too ;) 09:33 rangi for tarball or git 09:33 drojf in general 09:33 rangi its /etc/koha/koha-conf.xml 09:33 drojf i know 09:33 drojf ah it's always that 09:34 rangi yup 09:34 drojf you only have one instance 09:34 rangi yup 09:34 drojf ok that would be better than 09:36 drojf hm no. git can be everywhere 09:36 drojf this actually is my git installation ;) 09:36 drojf if you gitify a package installation it ends up there 09:37 rangi yep 09:37 rangi but most people dont do that 09:37 rangi and if they can manage that 09:37 rangi they dont need this wiki page ;) 09:38 drojf :) 09:39 magnuse well, you might have inherited the server... 09:39 drojf i just wanted to say that 09:39 drojf wasn't that the point of the page? :) 09:40 rangi true, i think youd be pretty unlucky to install one some had gitified from packages tho 09:40 drojf indeed 09:40 rangi because youd most likely be getting it from me or you 09:40 rangi :) 09:40 drojf but if you know, you can burn it and do a fresh install :D 09:40 rangi locate koha-conf.xml 09:41 rangi is probably the easiest way 09:41 magnuse rangi: agreed, a gitified package install is an edge case 09:41 drojf yeah locate makes sense. if there are several you woul dhave found the koha sites before with the other test and not run the script 09:42 rangi yeah 09:43 drojf anyway, i'll put it on the wiki as it is now, have a shower and do things i really have to do. feel free to enhance it or i might do it eventually :) 09:44 magnuse drojf++ 09:44 rangi :) 09:47 kf :) 09:47 kf about that gitifying 09:47 kf are there instructions for that somewhere? :) 09:48 rangi in the pod :) 09:49 rangi basically you checkout the script 09:49 rangi the run koha-gitify instancename path_to_gitclone 09:49 kf ok, so where does the script live? 09:49 kf gitify? 09:49 wahanui well, gitify is at https://github.com/mkfifo/koha-gitify 09:49 kf aah 09:49 rangi or 09:49 kf is it the right one? 09:49 rangi http://git.segfault.net.nz/?p=koha-gitify.git;a=summary 09:49 rangi yep 09:50 kf ok :) 09:50 * magnuse needs a break 10:00 Joubu hello #koha 10:01 Joubu I have a question, nobody is able to answer here... 10:01 Joubu How do you call the returner variable for GetAuthorisedValueCategories? 10:01 Joubu $categories_names, $category_names, $categories_name? 10:02 kf hm is it the code or the description? 10:03 kf hm ok, we only have codes there 10:03 kf guess iam the wrong person to ask :) 10:04 Joubu kf: yes it is the code 10:04 Joubu same question with s/name/code/g :) 10:05 rangi its an arrayref Joubu ? 10:05 rangi if so 10:05 rangi $category_names 10:05 rangi $category_codes 10:06 Joubu rangi: ok thanks! 10:12 Joubu rangi: but... so there is no difference with a routine called GetNamesForACategory? why isn't it categories_names? 10:12 rangi because that isnt valid english 10:13 rangi category_names = names of categories 10:14 rangi if we ever have GetNamesForACategory we are doing something wrong 10:17 Joubu rangi: yes, it was simply a grammatical question :) 10:17 rangi :) 10:17 rangi english is weird, but you would never say categories names 10:18 Joubu OK it's noted! 10:28 magnuse how about "categorie's names" 10:28 magnuse ? 10:28 magnuse oh btw IT's ON! http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/2013-08-23_Global_bug_squashing_day 10:29 rangi magnuse: category's names 10:29 rangi if you mean the names owned by a category 10:29 magnuse ah, yes 10:29 rangi english is dumb 10:30 magnuse nah, it's fun! 10:30 magnuse unpredictable sometimes, but fun 10:30 magnuse :-) 10:37 magnuse rangi++ for the dashboard 10:40 kf :) 10:40 kf dashboard? 10:40 wahanui dashboard is probably at http://dashboard.koha-community.org/ 10:51 magnuse kia ora Viktor 10:52 Viktor kia ora Magnus 10:52 magnuse Viktor: global bug squashing day just started in Kiribati - a perfect occasion for your first signoff ;-) 10:53 Viktor Very bad reception here, I'm going into a tunnel now ;) 10:53 kf ah, travelling by train? 10:53 kf i hate those tunnels. 10:55 Viktor Yes very annoying how the text breaks up :) 10:56 Viktor But no kf - just a bit swamped with other stuff. I think my plans for delving deeper into the inner workings of Koha (and the community) will have to be delayed until winter. 10:56 * magnuse thinks tunnels are just an excuse for dodging gbsd ;-) 10:57 magnuse oh well, i tried ;-) 10:57 * Viktor thinks magnuse is quite insightful :) 10:57 * magnuse thinks Viktor is already doing really well with delving into the community 10:58 magnuse Viktor++ in fact 10:58 magnuse @karma Viktor 10:58 huginn` magnuse: Karma for "Viktor" has been increased 15 times and decreased 1 time for a total karma of 14. 10:58 magnuse decreased?!? 10:58 Viktor Thanks magnuse :) 10:58 * Viktor is curious 10:59 kf Viktor++ 11:00 Viktor Are you going to KohaCon kf magnuse? 11:01 kf I am 11:01 magnuse i am not, sadly 11:02 Viktor Yay kf 11:02 Viktor And sorry magnuse 11:02 magnuse (the -- was from druthb, probably a typo, judging by the context) 11:02 Viktor But I'm not either from the looks of it. 11:02 magnuse :-( 11:02 magnuse Viktor: we can be miserable together then 11:03 Viktor magnuse Let's :) 11:03 magnuse rangi still around? 11:03 * magnuse hopes there will be video 11:04 Viktor agreed magnuse 11:06 * magnuse hopes there will be time to watch the video too :-) 11:06 Viktor That is a problem yes. 11:06 magnuse but the real fun (for me) would be the hackfest and the hallway track... 11:07 Viktor true 11:07 Viktor Trying out a new idea: 11:07 Viktor I see a lot of failed searches since people post to the wrong part of the search bar 11:08 Viktor How about if when a search fails in the staff interface the search term is left in the bar and you can search another part of the interface by just clicking the relevant tab? 11:09 magnuse sounds good to me 11:09 magnuse i have that problem sometimes too 11:09 magnuse i think there is actually one search box/form per tab though 11:09 Viktor Ok. Then I guess it might be relevant. I was afraid that it was just when you are new to it that it's a problem. 11:09 magnuse so youd have to put the search term in each of them 11:10 Viktor I guess it could be done with javascript and some DOM-manipulation? 11:12 magnuse probably 11:12 magnuse did we set a deadline for the kohacon14 proposals? 11:13 kf xyes 11:13 magnuse ah found it 11:13 magnuse kohacon14? 11:13 magnuse kohacon14 is submissions due by 15 September, voting to commence first week of October 11:13 magnuse kohacon14? 11:13 wahanui kohacon14 is submissions due by 15 September, voting to commence first week of October 11:16 * magnuse adds it to the next irc meeting, as a reminder 11:17 * magnuse goes back to munging Viktor's data 11:17 Viktor magnuse++ 12:08 oleonard Hi #koha 12:10 magnuse kia ora oleonard 12:12 oleonard Got your GBSD whip ready magnuse? 12:17 kf :) 12:17 kf if not i can help out 12:19 magnuse oleonard: oh yes! 12:25 oleonard The whip! 12:26 oleonard wahanui: The whip! is <reply> http://i.imgur.com/SE12zHB.png 12:26 wahanui i already had it that way, oleonard. 12:26 oleonard wahanui, is the exclamation point giving you troubles? 12:36 kf wahanui - oleonard asked you a queston1 12:36 wahanui kf: i'm not following you... 12:36 kf hm. 12:37 oleonard wahanui: forget The whip! 12:37 wahanui oleonard, I didn't have anything matching whip 12:37 oleonard wahanui: forget The whip 12:37 wahanui oleonard, I didn't have anything matching whip 12:37 oleonard wahanui: The whip is <reply> http://i.imgur.com/SE12zHB.png 12:37 wahanui OK, oleonard. 12:37 oleonard The whip 12:37 wahanui http://i.imgur.com/SE12zHB.png 12:37 oleonard The whip! 12:37 wahanui http://i.imgur.com/SE12zHB.png 12:37 * oleonard shrugs 12:41 marcelr gbsd seems to be a hit 12:45 kf marcelr: it just started in kiribati :) 12:45 kf it hasn't even reached europe yet 12:46 marcelr yes: i was in kiribati still am btw 12:46 marcelr but this signoff goes in the failed qa direction unfortunately 12:46 marcelr bug 9312 12:46 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9312 minor, P5 - low, ---, fridolyn.somers, Needs Signoff , strict perl for picture-upload.pl 12:47 kf ah 12:47 kf it happens :( 12:50 marcelr but citing the famous magnuse, this bug is moving 12:52 oleonard If it's still moving, step on it again! 12:53 kf lol 12:53 marcelr ah 12:56 druthb o/ 12:57 kf hi druthb 12:58 druthb :) 12:59 tcohen \o hi druthb kf 12:59 kf hi tcohen :) 13:04 druthb hi, tcohen! 13:36 jcamins I think the "sysprefs.sql is boring to rebase bug may be a little counter-productive. 13:40 magnuse which bug is that? 13:40 magnuse and didn't we almost have a new db update system - what happened to that? 13:41 jcamins Bug 10610. 13:41 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10610 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , sysprefs.sql is really boring to rebase 13:43 drojf meh. write mail to koha list, remember i can't send from that email address from the university network when i'm done. 13:43 jcamins drojf: save it as a draft? 13:43 drojf i did 13:44 drojf i suppose there will be a few other "no it's not KOHA" mails before i will be able to send it :D 13:47 magnuse jcamins: hopefully it will be beneficial in the long run? :-= 13:48 magnuse s/=/)/ 13:48 jcamins Let's hope. 13:55 Joubu jcamins: why do you think that about sysprefs.sql ? 13:55 Joubu Sure, that will cause some conflicts in a first time (for already submitted patches). But it should avoid a lot of conflicts for others. 13:56 jcamins Joubu: because instead of having to rebase sysprefs.sql, we now simply can't apply patches that change it at all. 13:56 jcamins And if they do apply, it's hard to figure out what the patch was supposed to add. 13:57 Joubu Yes, it will not be easy ... in a first time :) 13:58 gmcharlt jcamins: FWIW, I'll take care of any merge conflicts on stuff that's already been added 13:58 Joubu the "easy" method is to c/p the syspref added by the patch and to add it to the sysprefs.sql file from master 13:58 gmcharlt I'm not sure what you mean by " we now simply can't apply patches that change it at all." 14:00 jcamins gmcharlt: sha1 is missing errors. 14:00 jcamins So only the original author can rebase, it looks like. 14:00 * jcamins is rebasing all his outstanding patches as we speak. 14:01 kf Joubu: the problem with that is that you have to reformat the sql 14:01 kf you can' just jopy 14:01 kf hm can#t just copy 14:01 kf i think if we had kept the single insert into's it would have been a little eaiser 14:01 kf i already rebased one of those and you have to be quite careful 14:01 Joubu jcamins: hum... weird, I didn't get this error, just a big conflicts (tested with others patches than mine) 14:02 jcamins kf: was it your patch? If not, how did you get it to apply? 14:02 kf i had a conflict too 14:02 kf I didn't get the error message 14:02 kf it was kyle#s lost item stuff 14:02 jcamins My problem wasn't a conflict. It was an absolute refusal to apply the patch. 14:02 kf adding 2 new system preferences 14:03 jcamins Hm, so maybe other people just have merge conflicts. 14:03 jcamins That's good. 14:03 kf [off] we shouldn't let him to the EIFL thing. 14:03 jcamins [off] rangi said he would do it, I think. 14:04 kf [off] hm that's good 14:04 oleonard [off] "Koha.org? Yeah, probably the same thing. Go ahead and use that one." 14:04 oleonard [off] ^^ nightmare scenario 14:04 gmcharlt [off] I've been seeing signs that a general reminder of recent history may be in order 14:05 jcamins Oops. 14:05 jcamins I just ran cat koha-error.log. 14:06 gmcharlt jcamins: terrible thing to feed Myshkin 14:06 gmcharlt ;) 14:06 jcamins lol 14:06 kf lol 14:06 drojf lol 14:08 drojf now i see what the mobile internet is for. sending my emails that are blocked by university :D 14:08 * drojf switches back 14:15 drojf what happened to the trademark issue btw.? i remember someone saying it should be over "soon", that was some time ago 14:15 kf i think it's not over yet 14:18 drojf :( 14:18 kf you'd have to ask rangi I think 14:34 mtompset Greetings, #koha. 14:35 mtompset [off] I have a new person that frustrates me. 14:37 tcohen jcamins: does dedup_records.pl depend on a DOM setup? 14:37 jcamins tcohen: yes. 14:38 jcamins Well... 14:38 jcamins no. 14:38 jcamins But you should use DOM for authorities because the GRS-1 configuration for MARC21 authorities is iffy. 14:38 tcohen ok, that's the default a while ago anyway 14:38 jcamins Not an issue with UNIMARC, where the GRS-1 configuration is up-to-date. 14:40 tcohen is it ok to sign even if i didn't test with {uni|nor}marc data? 14:41 jcamins That's up to gmcharlt, but I'd think yes, given the backlog of UNIMARC patches. 14:41 jcamins And NORMARC authorities == MARC21 14:42 gmcharlt tcohen: that's fine -- one can only test what one can test; just make it clear in a comment in the bug that you haven't tested with UINMARC 14:42 * druthb finally has her testing environment set up, and wants to smoke-test a few UNIMARC patches this week. 14:43 gmcharlt druthb++ 14:44 druthb I have some rather high-maintenance company in the house right now, so not sure how much I'll get done. But I'll take a swing at some. 14:45 oleonard druthb: Teach them how to use the sandboxes and get them signing off 14:45 gmcharlt heh 14:46 druthb bah. This person is not even close to that sort of level. I wouldn't hire him to shelve books in my library. 14:46 drojf lol 14:49 druthb He'll be here through next Thursday. If I don't put him on a bus home before then out of sheer desperation for some peace and quiet. 14:49 kf druthb++! 14:50 druthb In the time it took me to install an SSL cert last night, and tinker with my webpage to put the comodo logo on it, I had to remind him *thrice* that I was trying to concentrate. grrrrr 14:55 jcamins Hey, is it a known issue that the fr-FR PO files are broken in master, again? 14:55 druthb Needy, manic-depressive extroverts, and hyper-busy introverts are a hypergolic mixture. One of us may not survive the week, and I'm bigger. 14:55 kf lol 14:58 oleonard jcamins: Broken as in causing tests to fail? I thought they always were. 14:59 jcamins oleonard: broken as in won't allow me to update them using ./translate update 15:05 gmcharlt jcamins: giving it a go myself 15:06 gmcharlt jcamins: hmm, no errors when I run ./translate fr-FR 15:06 gmcharlt er, ./translate update fr-FR 15:07 jcamins Really? I just ran it on master and was told there was no encoding. 15:08 gmcharlt jcamins: paste? 15:08 wahanui I eat paste! It's tasty! http://paste.koha-community.org 15:09 jcamins Oh, wait. I think I might see the problem. 15:09 jcamins PERL5LIB was set for my other repo. 15:09 jcamins No. 15:09 jcamins Darn. 15:09 pastebot "jcamins" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "Translate error" (6 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/182 15:11 druthb wahanui: botsnack paste 15:11 wahanui thanks druthb :) 15:12 drojf mmmh, paste 15:13 mtompset him who? 15:15 jcamins dbs: I'm looking at the results from validator.nu, and it's really unhappy. However, the other validators all seem to like it. Reasonable to ignore validator.nu? 15:15 dbs jcamins: lemme look 15:16 gmcharlt jcamins: OK, one issue I had -- the translation tools really ought to actually complain if gettext is not installed 15:16 gmcharlt after fixing that, I'm now seeing the same issue you are 15:16 dbs jcamins: for context I grabbed a quick bib at http://stuff.coffeecode.net/schema.org/koha/basic_bib.html and have been testing that, but it's very basic. Can you point at a URL? 15:17 jcamins [off] dbs: http://kohadev.cpbibliography.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=2073 15:19 dbs jcamins: ah, there's the holdings, which I wasn't able to test; good, I can see brokenness :) 15:19 * dbs will fix that up & see what else might be going awry 15:20 jcamins Thanks. 15:24 reiveune bye 15:30 dbs jcamins: fixed the terrible holdings error and pushed a commit for that 15:35 jcamins dbs: looks good now. 15:37 dbs jcamins: And.... advice from #rdfa is to shuffle the span elements back outside of the a elements to avoid unwanted default chaining. So, once more into the breach. 15:39 kf bye all :) 15:45 pastebot "tcohen" at 172.16.248.213 pasted "jcamins: the output" (98 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/183 15:51 dbs jcamins: okay, I swear that's the last commit in this rapid-fire iteration. If you are feeling brave and want to try again, I suspect validator.nu will be much happier. 15:52 dbs (Well, it's unhappy about many other preexisting things, but nothing I've introduced) 15:53 jcamins Right. 15:53 tcohen does anyone know what this means in zebrasrv log? [log] Unknown esetname 'marc' 15:53 jcamins Yup, looks like everything is happy. 15:53 dbs rdfa.info/play and the rdfa.info/tools python and ruby rdfa validators are happy, as is google rich snippets 15:56 jcamins Okay, I'm going to sign off and attach it to the bug. 15:59 dbs jcamins: sweet! thanks for making my first real steps in #koha so welcoming! also gmcharlt++ and rangi++ for pointers over the last 24 hours 16:04 pastebot "gmcharlt" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "the downside of writing a new test" (678 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/184 16:05 gmcharlt jcamins: ^^ 16:07 jcamins Ouch. 16:08 pastebot "gmcharlt" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "corrected version that gets the sense right" (563 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/185 16:08 gmcharlt bit less ouchy, but still ouch 16:17 oleonard Working on the OPAC holds page again: http://www.screencast.com/t/VcnaiTlu 16:18 mtompset How do I "Set the MARC framework to use "upload.pl" plugin for 856$u"? 16:19 gmcharlt oleonard: I like it 16:19 oleonard mtompset: Edit the MARC subfield structure for 856$u maybe? 16:19 oleonard mtompset: That's where you set other plugins for subfields. 16:21 mtompset Ah... there it is... I don't usually navigate the interface. :) 16:23 mtompset oleonard++ # Koha administration ->MARC bibliographic framework ->MARC structure for a framework code -> search for 856 -> Subfields ->Edit for 'u' -> Other Options -> plugin value setting. 16:38 oleonard [off] It's like people are deliberately oblivious... 16:39 gmcharlt [off] that, or (to be charitable) it's time to take another look at how well we do guiding people to the better path 16:40 oleonard [off] In this case I mean oblivious to the fact that the last few messages to the list were about installation instructions 16:41 jcamins [off] If you can't find the INSTALL file in the tarball, or instructions that have been discussed on the mailing list in the last day, or the instructions linked from the top of the download page, I don't think you really get much charity. 16:45 oleonard mtompset keeps a cool head 16:45 gmcharlt [off] perhaps -- but I think it useful to check every now and again whether there's a process issue. I admit that the current person, who has been subscribed to the list since at least the 14th, does not appear to be reading the responses he's gotten before 16:47 oleonard GMail used to warn people when they were sending emails without subjects. Apparently people complained about that enough that Google dropped the warning. 16:48 gmcharlt jcamins: http://git.librarypolice.com/?p=koha-galen.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/po-errors 16:50 mtompset Actually, I only just now noticed mirko's reply. 16:51 mtompset Sometimes, I just don't have time to see who is actually reading responses. 16:51 rambutan Who would think that an ILS mailing list and corresponding chat channel could be so entertaining? 16:52 gmcharlt quick, we're too funny around here! back to the RDA salt mines! 16:53 gmcharlt mtompset: yeah, nothing wrong at all about just responding to a question as asked -- sometimes repetition does eventually get the answer through 16:55 * druthb waves to mtompset. 16:58 mtompset Greetings, druthb. :) 17:03 gaetan_B bye ! 17:07 * drojf confuses the hell out of some unknown nz person :D 17:10 rambutan I am not from NZ 17:11 drojf lol 17:11 drojf i had a typo in a phone number and told someone in BZ to meet me at a station in berlin 17:11 drojf s/BZ/NZ 17:12 drojf i wonder if s/he will come :) 17:15 mtompset [off] This person on the mailing list is asking about setting up Liblime's version. DOH! Told him that I couldn't help him if he wished to use liblime's version. 17:16 oleonard [off] direct reply to you? 17:24 mtompset [off] Yes. 18:36 mtompset Are tests supposed to be 644 or 755? 18:38 jcamins .t -> 755 18:38 jcamins Well... usually. 18:40 mtompset I was just asking, because I was creating the backport by hand from reading the patch files, and I noticed I had forgotten to chmod one or two .pl files. 18:40 mtompset and then I thought, oh what about the test files. 19:04 rambutan make up my mind meliss 19:05 mtompset rambutan: Don't you mean make up your mind, meliss? 19:06 rambutan I'm more concerned about my state of mind frankly. :) 19:07 rambutan I have two open cans of diet Canada Dry and one open can of Diet Dr. Pepper, and I can't decide which is the current version I should be drinking 19:07 rambutan ah, the one on the right seems to be a bit cooler than the other two 19:07 rambutan see what I have to deal with here? 19:22 rangi hmmm 19:23 jcamins Is it too late to tell you that you shouldn't read your e-mail? 19:27 rangi yeah :( 19:28 jcamins Whoops. 19:29 jcamins On the plus side, dbs' schema.org microdata is awesome. 19:29 dbs *ahem* RDFa Lite :) 19:30 * dbs prefers the non-inflammatory "structured data" (although that might inflame the MARC folks) 19:31 rangi :-) 19:31 rangi dbs: ive already done that, with my rda tweet, you're all good 19:42 dbs rangi++ 19:42 oleonard In other news, trying to track back-and-forth conversations on the Twitter site is a terrible experience. 19:42 rangi it sure is 19:43 oleonard From what I could tell you didn't get any convincing counterarguments about RDA? 19:43 rangi didnt convince me 19:44 rangi i think in the end we all came to the conclusion RDA + MARC is a horrible idea 19:44 cait :) 19:44 rangi and that RDA + bibframe is potentially a good idea 19:44 rangi but the more they poke at it, the less good it will be 19:45 rangi (that last bit might be just my cynicism) 19:45 oleonard So we should all forget about RDA until bibframe is ready? I like forgetting about things. 19:45 rangi thats my theory 19:45 jcamins dbs: you've been following the bibframe discussion, haven't you? 19:46 rangi investing money into it now, prolongs marc dependency 19:46 rangi cold turkey man 19:46 rangi its the only way :) 19:46 jcamins If you have, you what I understand is a terrible misapprehension. 20:28 oleonard Later #koha 21:04 * wizzyrea just read email... wow. 21:05 wizzyrea i think RDA in MARC is a bad idea. It's like forcing a human to wear horseshoes 21:05 wizzyrea not that anyone asked my opinion, but there it is. 21:06 wizzyrea also good morning 21:07 wizzyrea bug squashing day! 21:08 wizzyrea hoo boy 21:08 wizzyrea dashboard? 21:08 wahanui i think dashboard is at http://dashboard.koha-community.org/ 21:10 wizzyrea version control using git? 21:10 wahanui hmmm... version control using git is at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Version_Control_Using_Git 21:13 cjh he didn't seem so sure about that one. 21:16 wizzyrea hehe 21:22 rangi back 21:29 dbs jcamins: I've been following BIBFRAME a bit, enough to feel like it might be going off the rails, but that's based on a heavy dose of ignorance on my part 21:31 cait good night all :) 21:31 jcamins Is someone who is more of an expert in public library fine policies going to respond to that message on the list? 21:33 rangi dunno, im not 21:34 wizzyrea which one? 21:34 wahanui which one is that? The fixed navbar? 21:35 jcamins About the cron job. 21:35 rangi not running hte cron job 21:35 jcamins I'm pretty sure that it translates to "we would like to have a tax on poor and computer illiterate people." 21:35 jcamins I'm testing now. 21:36 * wizzyrea is totally not seeing the message 21:36 jcamins Ah, no. 21:36 jcamins Good news. 21:36 wahanui good news is it looks like it's running properly. 21:36 jcamins It translates to "we won't be using fines." 21:36 jcamins Oh. 21:36 jcamins Unless we have a syspref that I sensibly disabled. 21:37 rangi there is one, for calculating fines on return 21:37 rangi not sure if its in 3.10.x tho 21:38 jcamins I had calculate fines on return turned on and it still didn't charge fines. 21:38 jcamins I see that as a good thing. 21:39 jcamins I mean, not a thing-that-I-would-have-expected, but better than a fine-on-being-poor-or-computer-illiterate. 21:39 wizzyrea ...is this a recent message? 21:39 wizzyrea never mind, 21:40 * wizzyrea goes to do something else. 21:40 jcamins Oh, never mind. 21:40 wahanui Good, I'm glad you figured it out. I didn't understand, and probably never will, being a bot. 21:40 jcamins I have fines capped at $0. 21:42 jcamins Yeah, sorry folks, that was lousy initial testing on my part. 21:42 Lee_in_Butte Hey there Kohafriends just demoing this IRC for Colin 21:42 rangi heya Lee_in_Butte 21:43 gmcharlt hi Lee_in_Butte 21:43 wizzyrea hi Lee_in_Butte 21:43 Lee_in_Butte hey Guys! 21:43 Lee_in_Butte and girls 21:43 Lee_in_Butte !! 21:43 jcamins Should I be less appalled than I am? 21:45 rangi jcamins: not sure 21:45 jcamins But... no one else is appalled? 21:46 jcamins That's probably a sign that I am overreacting. 21:47 rangi i didnt pay enough attention to be anything :) 21:47 jcamins I will summarize. 21:48 jcamins Someone asked on the list about turning off the fine cron job and (as I gather) just using the fine-on-return for fines. 21:48 jcamins The reason for this is to make it possible for people to renew their books on the OPAC. 21:48 * wizzyrea still doesn't see the message 21:48 jcamins Since the cron job is turned off, that means anyone with a computer at home won't be charged fines, and anyone without a computer, or without the computer savvy to renew their books themselves, will be. 21:49 gmcharlt wizzyrea: http://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2013-August/037111.html 21:49 jcamins And that is wrong, Wrong, WRONG, WRONG!!!! That is antithetical to all that a library should stand for. 21:49 jcamins That is... 21:49 rangi oh yeah 21:49 rangi true 21:49 * jcamins actually doesn't have anything else. 21:49 wizzyrea well, ok so ... the borrower won't *know* that there are fines until they return the book 21:50 wizzyrea presumably the fines will be assessed when the books are returned? 21:50 jcamins NO!!!! 21:50 Lee_in_Butte Colin will be setting up a Kohacon program app for us.We will have it ready to preview next week at the IRC meeting for Kohacon 13. Look for him logging in here in the near future. 21:50 jcamins Only for the poor, disadvantaged people. 21:50 jcamins The rich, computer-savvy people won't get charged fines. 21:50 wizzyrea but the poor disadvantaged ones can still renew at the library? 21:50 wizzyrea and won't get fines? 21:51 jcamins I believe they will get fined, yes. 21:51 gmcharlt sounds like a hole that could be filled with a calculate-accrued-fines-before-renewing patch? 21:51 rangi Lee_in_Butte: excellent 21:51 jcamins I will test more. 21:51 * wizzyrea is not for punishing people who don't have internet access, mind 21:52 wizzyrea ... I think this might be a people problem at the library, not a technological one. 21:52 jcamins I agree. 21:53 * gmcharlt is also for assuming good faith on the part of folks asking questions on the mailing list unless proven otherwise 21:53 wizzyrea well "allow renewals over the fine limit" might do it too 21:53 jcamins I'm suggesting the allow renewals over the fine limit option. 21:53 gmcharlt for one thing, I could envision scenarios where the exact time of day that the cronjob is run might affect things 21:54 wizzyrea but in truth 21:54 wizzyrea I think they are *imagining* customer service issues 21:54 wizzyrea and perhaps, if you are reaching the threshold so quickly, it's time to lower your fines :P 21:55 Lee_in_Butte thanks for the excellent demo you peeps. Hey Liz are you coming to Kohacon? would love to see you and the boys! 21:55 wizzyrea borrowers aren't a source of income, they're your reason to exist. 21:55 wizzyrea not this year 21:55 gmcharlt well, we actually don't know what the issues are ... the question could certainly stand a bit of unpacking 21:56 * jcamins has taken out his horror over the suggestion on you folks, and written a polite response for the list. 22:00 wizzyrea you did say the magic word that will at least make them stop and think, hopefully 22:01 wizzyrea "digital divide" 22:02 jcamins That's my hope. 22:05 * gmcharlt adds "adding logic to calculate accrued fines" on demand to a list of strings to pull on, time permitting 22:05 gmcharlt er, move the second quotation mark two words to the right 22:05 wizzyrea :) 22:08 * Lee_in_Butte slaps Lee_in_Butte around a bit with a large fishbot 22:09 Lee_in_Butte ha lar ious! 22:27 * wizzyrea hates troutslap 22:27 jcamins ? 22:28 jcamins Huh. I never knew there was such a command. 22:28 wizzyrea what's the difference between staffaccess and permissions 22:28 wizzyrea in the... permissions 22:28 wizzyrea staffaccess Allow staff members to modify permissions for other staff members 22:28 wizzyrea permissions Allow staff members to modify permissions for other staff members 22:29 wizzyrea these things read the same to me? 22:30 jcamins wizzyrea: I think permissions is wrong. 22:30 jcamins I think staffaccess is necessary to set permissions > than the current user's permissions. 22:30 wizzyrea I think permissions does it for users that are not category staff 22:30 jcamins Maybe. 22:30 wizzyrea ? 22:30 jcamins That may be too. 22:31 wizzyrea not sure. either way, those descriptions are wrong. or one is anyway 22:31 gmcharlt wizzyrea: the stock description for 'permissions' is Set user permissions 22:32 gmcharlt but looks like permissions == set permissions at all 22:32 gmcharlt and staffaccess == for users whose category's type is S 22:34 wizzyrea oh cool then it's just me 22:34 wizzyrea that's reassuring :) 22:35 * wizzyrea will double check that nothing untoward is happing at say, DB update time. 22:36 wizzyrea in regards to that 22:36 wizzyrea cuz 'm not not sure how mine got that way 22:36 wizzyrea but I was mucking about in there, it's not inconceivable that I did that myself :) 22:39 gmcharlt yes 22:40 gmcharlt (er, that was in response to something else) 22:44 gmcharlt wizzyrea: it's not just you 22:45 wizzyrea that means it's still probably my fault heh. 22:45 * wizzyrea will file a bug and self flagellate 22:46 * wizzyrea will poke at that here in a couple of mins 22:47 gmcharlt wizzyrea: oddly enough... look at commit 79e8b928ab 22:47 * wizzyrea gets the flail 22:48 mtompset wizzyrea: there is no relationship between category and permissions. 22:48 mtompset At least in my hunting around. 22:49 gmcharlt mtompset: er, in the very thing we've been talking about, vis-a-vis staffacess, there is 22:49 mtompset in koha? 22:49 gmcharlt in that staffaccess is required to change the pemrissions of a user whose category has a type of S 22:50 mtompset But conversely, if you set someone to S, it doesn't affect default permissions for the patron. 22:50 wizzyrea no, it doesn't 22:50 wizzyrea but it does change who can change their permissions. 22:50 jcamins No, there are no role-based permissions, but that's a different issue. 22:51 mtompset okay... I'll go back to picking through files with a fine tooth comb, to make sure I got the 6874 applicable. 22:53 wizzyrea I guess then we need to decide what the title for permissions should be 22:54 wizzyrea "set user permissions" I guess. 22:54 gmcharlt how about: "Set user permissions. To set permissions for staff users, staffacess is required as well."? 22:54 wizzyrea heyyyy I like that. 22:54 * wizzyrea will make it so. 22:54 * gmcharlt braces for the Picard maneuver 22:55 wizzyrea loool 22:56 wizzyrea http://yodaismybackpack.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/engage.gif 22:56 gmcharlt wizzyrea++ 22:57 * wizzyrea was hoping to find one of the actual maneuver 22:57 wizzyrea ^ was easier 22:57 wizzyrea http://fi.somethingawful.com/safs/titles/9a/42/00158580.0001.gif 22:58 wizzyrea http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb455/lurok91/GIFS/tumblr_m95h87351V1qchwd9o2_250.gif ? 22:58 * wizzyrea is terrifically amused now 22:59 gmcharlt http://www.decipherperth.net/public/FirstEdition/Tactics/Picard%20Maneuver.gif 23:19 wizzyrea gmcharlt++ 23:47 mtompset Greetings, dcook. 23:58 dcook hey ya mtompset