Time  Nick        Message
00:00 pianohacker @zyxel--
00:00 huginn`     pianohacker: I'll give you the answer just as soon as RDA is ready
00:00 pianohacker oh right
00:00 pianohacker zyxel--
00:00 pianohacker ^ above make really crappy modems/routers
00:04 gmcharlt    I am a little surprised that nobody seems to have ever had an itch that would be scratched by writing a Perl binding for fontconfig
00:06 jcamins     gmcharlt: I think maybe those itches turned out to be fatal.
00:08 gmcharlt    I wonder why; fontconfig itself is nothing more than a fancy database
00:08 jcamins     gmcharlt: sure, but fonts on Linux = guaranteed madness up until recently
00:09 jcamins     It was like looking into the abyss... and having it stare back at you.
00:09 * jcamins   shudders.
01:41 mtompset    Greetings, #koha.
01:45 mtompset    Greetings, tcohen.
01:51 druthb      o/
01:58 mtompset    Greetings, druthb.
02:10 * druthb    duct-tapes talljoy to her chair
02:11 talljoy     crikey i know.
02:11 talljoy     it's pidgin.  acting flighty tonight
02:19 mtj         can anybody think of a clever way to use .po files to translate the marc21.sql files, into various languages?
02:20 mtj         hmm, druthb  - any ideas? ^^
02:21 druthb      mtj: That's a problem I've been thinking about some, but don't have any firm answers for.  And the solution would still mean you get *one* language choice, not a true-multi-language system, which irks my sensibilities.
02:22 mtj         yeah, i clicked to that too
02:23 mtj         a bit like having a marc21 or unimarc system…. but never-ever an ILS that handles *both* formats
02:23 druthb      yes.
02:23 mtj         i still dont fully understand the .po process
02:25 druthb      as it is *right now*, it pretty much only does templates for admin and opac, plus the sys prefs.  Anything in the .pl or sql is untouched.
02:27 mtj         druthb, its not possible to translate a raw .sql file, is it?
02:27 mtj         … the .sql file needs to have its strings extracted/dumped to another file, for processing?
02:28 mtj         …and then, ?somehow? the translated strings are substituted back into the .sql file
02:28 mtj         is that how it works?
02:29 druthb      Basically.
02:29 druthb      it's pretty gnarly--you'd have to do that *before* you install!
02:30 mtj         or, the RM could build those files when releasing
02:31 mtj         and then those files would not need to be built before installing, coz the RM did that already
02:34 mtj         hmm, i might leave that chat for another day
02:35 mtompset    Just when the ideas were getting interesting. :(
02:38 druthb      heh.
02:38 druthb      adding_more_RM_work--
02:38 druthb      plus, that's not very dynamic.
02:38 mtompset    True enough.
02:38 mtj         hmm, i think ive finally clicked to how the po stuff works
02:39 mtj         yes, perfectly true… but
02:40 mtj         running a single script to build 50 framework files, is a bunch more dynamic that manually doing it
02:41 mtompset    Yes, couldn't that vapour-ware script be run as part of the package/tar.gz building?
02:42 druthb      yes.  What I'd *prefer*, though, is the ability for the system to be truly multilingual.  That's going to take some pretty broad DB changes.
02:42 mtompset    There's probably already some sort of script to run to do the building of the packages or a tar.gz.
02:43 jcamins     Everyone uses a different script.
02:43 mtompset    So something like, pull out the strings for the pages from a DB query keyed on and id and language id?
02:44 jcamins     The problem is not translating.
02:44 mtj         sorry, when i said 'doing it' , i meant tracking updates to the .sql files
02:44 jcamins     I mean, someone would have to write the string extracting and merging parts for misc/translator/translate, but that's not technically difficult.
02:45 jcamins     The problem is is still that the system is about as multi-lingual as an American.
02:45 mtompset    jcamins: Glad an American said that. ;)
02:46 * jcamins   wanders off to get some sleep.
02:46 mtompset    Have a good night, jcamins. :)
02:48 mtompset    I suppose, I'm not understanding what you mean by truly multilingual, druthb.
02:49 mtj         well, atm you can only choose 1 framework,  for 1 language
02:49 druthb      For instance, if you're in the staff client in English mode, and edit a bib, the labels are in English.  If you change the staff client to, say French--or Klingon--or whatever, then edit a bib, the labels are in....English.
02:50 mtompset    Really?!
02:50 wahanui     really is off now
02:50 druthb      *everything* should change.  And it doesn't.  If it's contained in the database, and *not* a syspref description, it's not getting changed, at all.
02:50 mtompset    I haven't tried, so I wouldn't know.
02:51 mtj         druthb, to get to where we want to be, we still need a way to have up-to-date frameworks for all langs
02:51 mtj         … so this problem is still relevant
02:51 druthb      Oh, absolutely.  But Frameworks are just *part* of that.  Every piece of text everywhere in the DB that is intended for screen display...
02:51 mtj         we still need to sort this, before we can get there
02:53 mtj         yep
02:53 mtj         so we would need a way to display the correct syspref strings, for a users language (as an example)
02:55 druthb      yep.  Basically, the thinking I'd had is to add a field (to already-bloated tables) for "lang"...and then you select with an additional WHERE for the current language.
02:55 druthb      gnarly, but it'd work.
02:55 mtj         in a proper multi-linual koha, we would need to load all syspref strings, for all langs, into the db
02:56 druthb      yes.  At least, for all langs that *that install* wanted to use.
02:56 mtompset    Yes, that's more of what I was envisioning, mtj.
02:56 mtompset    Updates done to that db via a po2db script? ;)
02:57 druthb      yep, something like that.
02:57 mtompset    Question... what about the error logs?
02:58 mtompset    would we be even able to multilingual-ize them?
02:58 mtj         druthb, i like your idea - it feels like the obvious/correct choice
02:58 druthb      Obvious, yes, correct--probably...but definitely non-trivial.
02:59 * mtompset  nods.
02:59 mtj         hey ftw, google-translate works really well with koha..
03:01 mtj         [off] here is a nice example -> http://ebc.calyx.net.au/cgi-bin/koha/opac-MARCdetail.pl?biblionumber=65
03:02 mtj         …try the 'korean' option, from the google-trans drop-down
03:03 mtj         you can see it translates the hardcoded english MARC21 field descriptions nicely
03:04 * druthb    nominates mtj for Chief Teller Of Non-Anglophones That GTranslate Is Right.
03:07 mtj         s/nicely/badly/
03:08 druthb      mhm.
03:08 druthb      GT works *okay*, *sometimes* for a single word or short phrase.
03:57 druthb      woo hoo!   http://transformedwoodworks.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=1
04:09 mtompset    Is there a way to hide branches from results?
04:14 mtompset    Better just go to bed.
04:15 mtompset    Have a great day.
04:20 talljoy     druthb that looks like a pen you made me!
04:20 druthb      :)
04:20 druthb      I've been doing some turning lately, plus I had a few from before I left Maryland.
04:21 druthb      I figured it was high time I got those online.
04:21 druthb      Setting up Zen-Cart is a minor pain in the patootie.
04:22 talljoy     selling your wares!  cool.
04:22 talljoy     i have to hide my pen from the young 'un.  he has a pen fetish.  Buys pens with his allowance.  odd!
04:23 druthb      Plz to give him the link. :D
04:23 talljoy     i will!
04:24 druthb      I'm gonna try to get a dozen or so up on the website this weekend.
04:24 talljoy     is that your pen up there ^^
04:25 talljoy     duh.. i see your NAME in big letters now!!!
04:25 druthb      :)
04:25 druthb      how do you like the site layout?
04:25 talljoy     sigh...that kind of day.  2 migrations in 24 hours. both with nervous nells
04:25 talljoy     i like the site a lot.  very nice
04:26 druthb      I still have a fair bit of tinkering to do, but it's coming along.
04:27 talljoy     hey do you read anything by Susan Phillips?
04:27 talljoy     http://www.susanephillips.com/
04:28 druthb      I haven't, no
04:28 talljoy     i went to an author lunch at TLA (just to see Andrew McCarthy) and she was the other author.  Anyways, i got a signed copy of her book and read it.  Light romance stuff, thought you might enjoy it.  I'd be happy to mail it to ya if you PM me your address.
04:29 druthb      That'd be awesome!  Thanks!
04:31 talljoy     has the minion moved out yet?
04:33 druthb      Nope; probably be the end of July before all the pieces fall into place.
04:35 talljoy     then you're an emptynester.  found a choir or dance group in houston yet?
04:37 druthb      Yes, and yes. :D
04:42 * druthb    heads for bed!
08:14 cait        @wunder Konstanz
08:14 huginn`     cait: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 12.0°C (10:00 AM CEST on June 01, 2013). Conditions: Rain. Humidity: 95%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 29.87 in 1011 hPa (Rising).
23:17 tweetbot    [off] twitter: @ranginui: "ZOMG #KohaILS people, please stop feeding the troll"
23:18 jcamins     Woo! Filter win!