Time  Nick         Message
23:58 jcamins      Very good. :)
23:58 wizzyrea     that's good though
23:57 dcook        morning #koha
23:57 jcamins      And finding scads of bugs. :(
23:56 jcamins      Shari is testing.
23:55 wizzyrea     oh of course :)
23:55 jcamins      biblionarrator, of course!
23:54 wizzyrea     what's the project? ;)
23:53 jcamins      Github wins.
23:49 * jcamins    had no idea.
23:49 wizzyrea     their tools are quite good
23:49 wizzyrea     well I'd just run the project through github
23:48 jcamins      I didn't even know Github had one.
23:48 jcamins      You know, you're the second person to say that.
23:48 wizzyrea     because people can attach pull requests to bugs
23:48 wizzyrea     probably github's
23:48 wizzyrea     in all truth?
23:47 wizzyrea     oh boy.
23:46 jcamins      If you needed a bug tracker for a new project, which one would you use?
22:51 wizzyrea     they had been messed up for a while
22:51 wizzyrea     heh, that kind of depends on whether we even get upload permissions
22:50 jcamins      As long as you change it on the new server, doesn't seem like it would be a problem?
22:49 wizzyrea     really probably no point right now.
22:49 wizzyrea     but the server is in flux so...
22:49 wizzyrea     meant/mean
22:49 wizzyrea     which reminds me that I really meant to re-do the website.
22:49 wizzyrea     firefox has quite a big brand/marketing
22:48 eythian      the bigger end-user ones, like firefox and stuff probably count
22:47 jcamins      Yeah, exactly.
22:47 eythian      http://httpd.apache.org/ <-- as opposed to stuff like this
22:47 eythian      http://handbrake.fr/ <-- you mean stuff like this?
22:46 jcamins      eythian: yeah, that's what I said. "I'm sure there are some."
22:46 eythian      I can't think of examples off the top of my head
22:46 eythian      there probably are some
22:46 jcamins      Shari asks if anyone knows of any software projects that do a good job selling themselves on their website.
22:43 jcamins      I'm not so sure about using it for the tech carts, though.
22:42 jcamins      Like, every year Professor Smith places a hold on Film A for May 15.
22:40 jcamins      I don't know, there is a certain logic to having recurring holds in Koha. Assuming that it's for something that you check out.
22:13 maximep      gn
22:11 drojf        good night cait
22:11 cait         good night all
21:41 maximep      well, more like 65 hours -_-
21:41 maximep      for now it just AddReserves everything when u place the hold
21:40 maximep      nah, that's only a few hours
21:40 cait         looks like you are far already
21:40 cait         ah
21:38 maximep      [off] http://i.imgur.com/TE2Ji39.png
21:37 cait         hi eythian
21:37 wizzyrea     plugin :P
21:37 maximep      there would be so much code and features duplication
21:36 wahanui      bidet, eythian
21:36 eythian      hi
21:36 cait         i can only imagine i tmakes something overly complicated even more complicated :)
21:36 wizzyrea     what she said.
21:36 cait         maximep: maybe it would be worth to have that feature separate from the holds system somehow?
21:36 cait         :)
21:35 * tcohen     flies away, literally
21:35 maximep      but they want to just use koha for everything
21:35 maximep      they were using other apps to do it
21:34 wizzyrea     no I meant, external to koha :P
21:34 maximep      yes, it will be a future feature
21:34 maximep      our clients are starting to use koha to manage more than just their books
21:34 wizzyrea     don't you really want a calendar for that kind of thing?
21:33 maximep      borrowing a tv every monday from 10 to 12 for the next 4 months
21:32 maximep      well, something as simple as
21:32 maximep      my code is very dependant on the patches by khall to have multiple reserves for the same user
21:32 cait         and how many crazy hold schemes are out there?
21:32 cait         what does a repeating hold do?
21:32 cait         not sure if you interfere with each other or not
21:31 cait         maximep: i think marcelr has done work in that area
21:31 maximep      haha
21:31 wizzyrea     interesting. fix it while you're at it.
21:31 maximep      working on a feature to have repeating holds, so i'm deep in that code right now
21:30 wizzyrea     glhf :)
21:30 rangi        ok off to meetings
21:30 cait         if I understand the feature correctly - we aren't using it so far
21:30 maximep      hmmm good point
21:29 wizzyrea     ^^
21:29 cait         nto that you get it exactly on that day
21:29 maximep      *see results* :P
21:29 cait         i mean it' smeans just that the hold will take effect then, right?
21:29 cait         maybe not intentional but it seems not evil
21:29 wizzyrea     pass
21:29 cait         hm
21:29 maximep      yes
21:29 cait         do you mean with hold date in the future?
21:28 cait         ?
21:28 maximep      poll: bug or feature that it's possible to create holds on holidays
21:11 tcohen       welcome back wahanui
21:11 wahanui      drojf has karma of 96
21:11 cait         karma for drojf
21:10 wahanui      drofj has neutral karma
21:10 cait         karma for drofj?
21:08 drojf        cool!
21:08 rangi        that trick too
21:08 wahanui      rangi has karma of 575
21:08 rangi        karma for rangi
21:08 wahanui      rangi: i'm not following you...
21:08 rangi        wahanui already knows that trick
21:08 wahanui      rangi was last seen on #koha 0 seconds ago, saying: wahanui: seen rangi? [Mon May 27 21:08:09 2013]
21:08 rangi        wahanui: seen rangi?
21:08 rangi        watch even
21:07 rangi        what this
20:46 cait         yeah :(
20:46 wizzyrea     ah is huginn gone awol
20:46 drojf        huginn should teach wahanui some of the tricks…
20:45 wizzyrea     @wunder nzwn
20:40 cait         fingers crossed!
20:39 tcohen       if i get the visa
20:39 tcohen       i'll know on wednesday
20:39 tcohen       i'mflying tonight to buenos aires
20:38 tcohen       but my boss told me "get your visa, then we talk"
20:38 tcohen       if i had the money i'd made my reservation already
20:38 cait         guess it's a little easier from europe :(
20:37 cait         oh
20:37 cait         i might be confused
20:37 tcohen       until i0m not sure i can enter US soil i cannot register
20:37 cait         or were you talking about something else?
20:37 cait         for kohacon :)
20:37 tcohen       registration?
20:36 cait         i am still waiting and getting a bit worried
20:36 cait         tcohen: did you get an email confirming your registration?
20:36 tcohen       #koha, i've been told invitation letters were sent for people applying for their US visas
20:33 tcohen       @seen rangi
20:31 tcohen       hi rangi
20:27 cait         someone tell me to hit that *Pay* button please
20:27 cait         ok
20:27 drojf        jcamins: sounds like fun :)
20:25 cait         must be worth the time then :)
20:22 jcamins      drojf: actually, I've been battling that book for hours.
20:22 jcamins      drojf: yay!
20:15 * druthb     blames cait!
20:14 druthb       !
20:09 wahanui      Germs originated in Germany, before rapidly spreading throughout the rest of the world.
20:09 cait         germs?
20:09 cait         what did you expect?
20:09 cait         it's german
20:09 cait         nope
20:07 drojf        or it's just my brain…
20:07 drojf        cait: our language is complicated
20:05 drojf        (you are probably way past that book by now)
20:05 kathryn      hehe
20:05 wahanui      i guess huginn is a bot, not a person.
20:05 cait         huginn....
20:04 cait         @wunder Konstanz
20:04 drojf        jcamins: so, after discussing it with a friend and asking google, in the end i'd say my first response was the correct one and i invented the existence of another word. ;)
20:04 cait         here too :)
20:01 kathryn      hmmn I've forgotten something - it's chilly!
20:01 kathryn      @wunder wellington,nz
20:01 kathryn      evening cait
20:00 cait         good morning kathryn
19:58 drojf        jcamins: do you have some more context for us?
19:57 wahanui      it has been said that glue is stil drying.
19:57 drojf        glue??
19:56 cait         the things you glue into books?
19:56 cait         but can't thnk of the word
19:56 cait         i think i know what you think about
19:55 drojf        i asked a bookseller friend and she says she knows no other word for it than widmung/gewidmet. maybe i made up that i know another word
19:51 cait         jcamins: he is right, normally you would use it as 'dedicated to'
19:51 * cait       thinks about the word too now
19:50 druthb       :P
19:50 cait         hmm
19:49 drojf        druthb: that feels weird :D
19:47 drojf        there is a different word i am looking for but i can't come up with it. that's ridiculous. anyway i really think a widmung implies it is done by the author, not a person giving away the book
19:47 * druthb     stuffs drojf into Google Translate.
19:43 drojf        woah i got wortfindungsstörungen
19:42 drojf        sorry ;)
19:42 jcamins      That complicates things.
19:42 jcamins      Ooh.
19:41 drojf        no on a second thought… i thjink it can only be gewidmet by the author, like "dedicated to". but now i'm not sure you meant that
19:41 jcamins      It's actually Yiddish that I'm looking at.
19:40 jcamins      I'll take that first response.
19:40 drojf        lol
19:40 drojf        language. think about it a second and all or nothing is possible
19:40 drojf        hm. or…
19:39 drojf        absolutely!
19:39 jcamins      drojf: can "gewidmet" be used to refer to what you do when you sign a book to give to someone?
19:37 drojf        (2) is completely wrong btw
19:36 drojf        heh
19:36 jcamins      Probably "haus." :P
19:36 drojf        jcamins: i wonder how it is pronounced :D
19:35 jcamins      drojf: never heard of that.
19:34 adam_m       Perfect, thanks!
19:33 maximep      adam_m: this page http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Newbie_guide can be very useful at first
19:32 adam_m       thanks, hopefully this works :)
19:32 drojf        jcamins: is that really used?? (1) http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=haus
19:31 * drojf      makes a note in the calendar
19:30 adam_m       ah ok, that could be it, no i didn't make a rule for ciculation
19:30 drojf        first time ever i was faster than jcamins :)
19:30 drojf        ha!
19:30 jcamins      jinx.
19:30 jcamins      ... and drojf already answered.
19:30 jcamins      adam_m: you need to do two things for it to work: 1) you must be creating items. 2) you must set up a default rule for circulation.
19:30 drojf        have you set a default rule for circulation? and have you added items to the biblios?
19:30 adam_m       And yes so far it seems like quite a good fit for our small rural school district
19:28 adam_m       It says there arent any available or whatnot. Is there something im missing when I add the actual book, such as the number of them to add?
19:27 adam_m       I have added a library and added a few books, but it seems that the accounds i created cannot take any books out
19:27 drojf        cool. i hope you like it
19:27 adam_m       I recently installed Koha, and have just been playing around with it before we actually start using it.
19:27 drojf        hi adam_m
19:26 adam_m       Hello
19:25 drojf        ok. it keeps wifi when it goes into standby and searches duckduckgo via https instead of google. got to add "firefox os developer" to my business card :P
18:37 drojf        AH! i was in the wrong folder and setup a branch just for gaia. no idea how to get rid of that or if it matters, but in the correct folder everything works ok
18:35 maximep      hey khall, is t/db_dependent/Holds.t in bug 9394 meant to replace t/db_dependent/Reserves.t ?
18:34 drojf        lol i guess you are right
18:33 jcamins      drojf: I'm pretty sure that's the reasoning of everyone who decides to use the tarball and zebraqueue_daemon.
18:32 drojf        but i finally managed to build the latest version so i'd like to play a bit more with it ;) there is probably some settings file that i could just search on the phone but where is the fun in that?
18:31 drojf        definitely not ready
18:31 drojf        if you want to build it, yes. there is no obvious option to change it in the settings at this point
18:31 * jcamins    thinks that possibly Firefox OS is not ready for primetime.
18:30 jcamins      That requires git?
18:30 drojf        trying to make the web browser on my phone use duckduckgo instead of google
18:29 jcamins      What are you doing?
18:29 drojf        it's probably different for b2g/firefox os, but i am really sure this is exactly how i did it last time. and it worked.
18:28 jcamins      Or if you don't want a branch based on master.
18:28 jcamins      Unless you don't call your remote origin.
18:28 jcamins      Yes.
18:27 * drojf      is confused
18:27 drojf        isn't it 'git checkout -b newbranchname origin/master' ?
18:26 drojf        i bet hungarian is a nice language to learn too
18:25 drojf        lol
18:25 drojf        it's hard to say really without knowing the contents
18:25 jcamins      I love these Hungarian things that I have to ask for German help on. :/
18:25 drojf        it could be an evaluation too
18:24 drojf        in a less fairytale-y way
18:24 drojf        i think it is more an "erzählung" kind of "bericht! something like this http://dict.leo.org/ende/?lp=ende&lang=de&searchLoc=0&cmpType=relaxed&sectHdr=on&spellToler=&search=bericht#/search=Erz%C3%A4hlung&searchLoc=0&resultOrder=basic&multiwordShowSingle=on
18:24 jcamins      Or evaluation?
18:24 jcamins      Ah-ha! I think I've figured it out. So I could probably call it an assessment?
18:23 drojf        looks like "account" also has this kind of meaning. at least leo tells me that, i wasn't familiar with it
18:23 jcamins      But in English we probably wouldn't publish a journal called "reports," so I was hoping maybe the German also meant review. :)
18:22 jcamins      The Hungarian translates as "report" too, but that doesn't really help much since I don't know any Hungarian, so I can't tell what it's about.
18:21 jcamins      drojf: I'm trying to understand what "report" means in this context.
18:21 drojf        but it depends on what is actually in there :)
18:21 drojf        jcamins: i think it is more like "report"
18:19 jcamins      drojf: Berichte über Leben und Kunst <-- is it fair to translate "Berichte" as "Review"?
18:18 jcamins      Alas, once again kf leaves right before I have a German question.
15:58 gaetan_B     bye !
15:51 jenkins_koha Owen Leonard: Bug 10261: Link to patron files missing from circ-menu.tt
15:51 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.12.x build #47: SUCCESS in 41 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.12.x/47/
15:48 msaby        some improvement to baskets and baskets groups display
15:47 msaby        tcohen: we also made some i
15:43 tcohen       acq will be our 3.12 highlighted feature
15:42 tcohen       i usually introduce new features prior to new version deployments
15:41 tcohen       interesting msaby, our librarians will start using acq once i manage to teach them
15:40 msaby        tcohen: and we hightlight the negative budgets in red
15:40 * tcohen     heads to resuming its work on koha-create
15:39 msaby        tcohen: a dashboard for acquisitions. it uses the login of the librarian
15:37 jcamins      tcohen: you are right, yes.
15:36 wahanui      well, the dashboard is at http://dashboard.koha-community.org/
15:36 msaby        If I have time I will try to "perlish" that
15:36 tcohen       the dashboard?
15:36 msaby        our dev made a new nice improvement in javascript to acq page ;-)) twitpic.com/ctn98n
15:35 tcohen       IRC its kindof mute today
15:35 tcohen       hi msaby
15:35 msaby        hello #koha
15:27 tweetbot     [off] twitter: @jsicot: "et hop, un petit dashboard pour les acquéreurs dans #KohaILS #hack http://t.co/eJhfCxUjpN"
15:22 tcohen       am i right jcamins?
15:20 tcohen       no, i understand there wasn't a patch for some missing bits
15:20 jcamins      Oh, did I miss pushing it?
15:20 tcohen       for koha-create-dirs and koha-create
15:19 tcohen       i'm providing a missing followup
15:19 tcohen       i found bug 9890
15:19 jcamins      They are per-instance.
15:18 wahanui      plugins are just enabled or disabled with Wordpress, aren't they?
15:18 jcamins      Plugins.
15:18 tcohen       about what jcamins?
15:18 jcamins      tcohen: no.
15:17 jcamins      About an hour.
15:15 tcohen       how long will it take jenkins_koha?
15:10 jenkins_koha Starting build #47 for job Koha_3.12.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
15:05 tcohen       magnus_away?
14:24 tcohen       I see the placeholder in the koha-conf.xml file is not correctly filled (the one fr the plugin dir)
14:24 tcohen       jcamins, are koha plugins re-usable through several instances?
14:14 tcohen       oh, I didn't notice, thanks jcamisn!
14:14 jcamins      tcohen: it's a holiday in the US so oleonard probably won't be around today.
14:10 tcohen       doesn't fix the weirdness
14:08 tcohen       i think 6413 is wrong
14:01 tcohen       do we have jqplot in the codebase oleonard?
13:53 * kf         files another bug then
13:52 * kf         is worried.
13:52 kf           should we be worried?
13:52 kf           gmcharlt is too
13:52 kf           huginn!
13:52 jcamins      kf: because huginn is the one who shows bugs, and huginn is offline.
13:52 tcohen       is bug 6413 a bugfix?
13:51 jcamins      tcohen: I would, yes.
13:51 kf           wondering why the bot didn't show the bug :)
13:49 tcohen       it doesn't kf. i've just read it, thanks anyway
13:48 wahanui      kf?
13:48 kf           wahanui?
13:48 kf           bug 6413
13:48 tcohen       oh, I remember: "All of a Sudden I Miss Everyone" :-P
13:47 tcohen       what was it called?... hmmm
13:47 tcohen       there was that Explosions in the sky album, from 2007
13:44 tcohen       s/do/does/
13:44 tcohen       do 6413 add a new column to accountlines?
13:35 tcohen       jcamins: would you use Class::Accessor fr a new Koha class?
13:19 tcohen       hm, I guess you're right
13:18 jcamins      tcohen: I think you're thinking of the circulation log, which was fied by someone at BibLibre.
13:13 tcohen       or was libsysguy?
13:13 tcohen       didn't she provide the patch?
13:11 kf           why wizzyrea? :)
13:11 kf           aah
13:11 kf           guess i have tortured wahanui enough :)
13:11 tcohen       wizzyrea++
13:11 kf           bug 7883
13:11 tcohen       i'm loving 7883
13:10 kf           bug 10352
13:10 kf           or i don't know - i guess we should not mix itemnumber/biblionumber in the same field
13:05 kf           :(
13:05 kf           if there was a bug, we fixed it wrong.
13:05 kf           this is a fresh out of the box 3.12 installation...
13:04 tcohen       there was a bug for that
13:03 kf           which creates a mess I think
13:03 kf           because one time we store itemnumber as object and the other time the bilbionumber
13:03 kf           well the cataloguing log search
13:02 kf           catalouging search is broken
13:02 tcohen       which ones kf?
13:01 kf           is not good
13:01 kf           that
13:00 kf           hmm
12:56 kf           :P
12:56 kf           fix them while they are fresh!
12:55 wahanui      -6
12:55 kf           10245 - 10251
12:55 tcohen       hi kf
12:54 kf           good morning tcohen :)
12:54 * kf         has a bug filing frenzy
12:53 tcohen       morning #koha
12:50 Viktor       Thanks for the input! I'll have to be off.
12:49 Viktor       Great!
12:49 jcamins      Sure.
12:49 Viktor       ?
12:49 Viktor       If I create a mockup, a little animations, an RFC or something -will you guys have a look at it.
12:48 Viktor       LOL thanks :)
12:48 * kf         hands Viktor cookies to make him still like us
12:48 Viktor       I'll think about it.
12:48 Viktor       Noted :)
12:47 Viktor       I'm sorry but I'll have to be going soon.
12:47 * jcamins    still thinks that the solution would cause way more problems than it would solve.
12:47 Viktor       Thats not the thought - my thought is that every problem should light up a persistent alert that you will have to handle before being able to end the transaction and print a receipt.
12:46 jcamins      Instead of losing scans because you didn't pay attention to the alert, you'll lose scans because there are no usable alerts.
12:45 Viktor       Hmm.
12:45 Viktor       If someone scans a few books and discovers a problem with the first one it's possible to forget to rescan the following books.
12:45 jcamins      You'll still lose scans, just in a different way.
12:44 Viktor       I will ponder that a bit since it might be a complication. But the experience should be very nearly the same as before. Just that you will not "lose scannings" the way the sometimes do today.
12:42 jcamins      Once to check them out, once to check that they were checked out.
12:42 jcamins      But in order to then keep up with what I assume will be a very complex circulation policy, you'll have to tell all the librarians to go through pile of books twice.
12:42 Viktor       Ah, sorry :)
12:42 jcamins      I know.
12:42 Viktor       Just that when you scan to fast for the system to keep up you'll get a barcode queue.
12:41 Viktor       The workflow should still be the same.
12:41 Viktor       It's not a batch module per se.
12:40 Viktor       jcamins - I have a correction to make!
12:40 jcamins      Otherwise the librarians will be all unhappy because the system let them check out a book it shouldn't.
12:40 Viktor       jcamins - But it's often perceived as technology "The system requires us to do it this way". But people find their own ways :)
12:40 jcamins      But if you have ten rules related to every single issue, they have to be checked after every issue.
12:39 jcamins      If you had a universal policy for circulation, a batch mode would be easy.
12:39 Viktor       jcamins - True!
12:39 Viktor       I would love to see RDA implemented since we are switching in Sweden too. But RDF does seem a little more exciting to me I have to confess.
12:38 jcamins      Viktor: the workflow problem is not about the technology, though, it's about the policies.
12:38 kf           Viktor: that makes a lot of sense .)
12:38 Viktor       Interesting disussion about RDA!
12:38 Viktor       kf Thing is these guys have taken to their heart that you can change stuff in Koha and they don't like to have to wait for every single book. So I'm trying to build a workflow based on people not training them to base their workflow on the system :)
12:37 kf           it will be interesting to see how the idea turns out :)
12:36 kf           it's probably me :) I have heard that so often that I wouldn't dare ignore the system :)
12:35 kf           I jobbed a bit at a busy public library and in an academic while in library school
12:35 kf           hm i am just not sure.... we were always trained to wait for the ils to confirm the checkout :)
12:35 Viktor       kf Thing is it's easy to miss stuff just because the staff scan while looking at the barcodes and scan a bunch of books before finding out that an earlier one lit up a box that requires handling.
12:34 jcamins      Viktor: the only reason the offline circ wouldn't work is that there's an extra step at the end where you have to approve your transactions.
12:34 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10347 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , Deactivate "Add item" button when "Add multiple copies" was activated
12:34 kf           bug 10347
12:34 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10346 trivial, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , "Add multiple copies" should be labelled "Add multiple items"
12:34 kf           bug 10346
12:34 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10245 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, chrish, Needs Signoff , OPAC items table CSS classes
12:34 kf           bug 10245
12:33 kf           *shrug*
12:33 kf           or just simple things like a popup for the materials note
12:33 Viktor       jcamins No. At least I don't think so. It's for those days when you have a class of 20 kids with ten books each and you have to work the fastest you can.
12:33 kf           Viktor: I think watiting at the end can take a lot longer because of the problems being missed
12:32 Viktor       jcamins I do still think we will need it but I will try to benchmark scanning with Plack enabled for the staff interface before developing anything new.
12:32 jcamins      Viktor: Okay, the offline circ would not meet your needs.
12:31 Viktor       jcamins The high speed scanning was to make shure you don't have to wait for the system as much. Scan at your pace and let the system work at it's own pace. We'd rather wait a bit at the end than wait for every barcode scanned.
12:30 kf           well the bug is filed :)
12:30 jcamins      I don't recall it doing that, but I've often wished it did.
12:29 kf           hm.
12:29 kf           i thought it used to do that
12:23 jcamins      kf: that'd be a neat feature.
12:21 kf           should the copy number be counting up when you use the add multiple items thing?
12:20 kf           hm
11:33 * kf         nods
11:33 jcamins      So unfair.
11:33 jcamins      Myshkin was just cheated. :( There was a bird on the window sill, and as soon as he got close it flew away.
11:29 kf           but... where do I have a working framework. hm.
11:28 kf           ok, the big bad bug is on me... but I don't understand how it happened, i am quite sure I did only hide fields I didn'twant
11:27 kf           my fast add tempalte is broken... missing all the fields
11:27 jcamins      Viktor: you had asked at some point about a way to scan items at high speed at some point. What did you want that feature for?
11:26 kf           hm actually it might be an export problem
11:25 kf           big bad bug
11:25 kf           oh yeah
11:25 jcamins      Sounds like a bug.
11:25 kf           and all my hidden fields didn't get imported at all
11:25 kf           i just imported our fast add framework into koha 3.12
11:25 kf           not about the unimarcers
11:24 kf           oh no
11:22 jcamins      rangi: no, UNIMARCers do not use AACR2.
10:22 tweetbot     [off] twitter: @spastk: "@ranginui as much as I like #KohaILS, I'm most concerned about them lowering hours and staff."
10:18 mtj          an interesting doc about UNIMARC and RDA -> http://conference.ifla.org/past/ifla75/135-dunsire-en.pdf
10:14 tweetbot     [off] twitter: @ranginui: "@spastk if they switched to #KohaILS they could save a bunch on license fees, not to mention support :)"
10:09 mtj          ok, now i think i shut up… :)
10:05 mtj          yeah… its a very strange feeling
10:05 rangi        yeah, i gave up
10:03 * alex_a_    too
10:03 alex_a_      lol
10:02 mtj          every time i attempt to understand anything about RDA, i feel i now understand less than before
09:59 rangi        i already know way more than anyone should ever have to know about cataloguing standards
09:58 rangi        who knows
09:57 kf           i think it's all related to isbd a bit too?
09:57 rangi        cos if they dont, it couldnt imagine any benefit going to RDA
09:57 kf           i don't know
09:57 rangi        do french librarians use AACR2 ?
09:56 rangi        all marc21
09:56 rangi        yeah theres no unimarc on that
09:55 kf           www.rda-jsc.org/members.html
09:55 rangi        (2004 they started)
09:55 rangi        9 years
09:55 rangi        but yes
09:54 rangi        http://www.rda-jsc.org/rdamarcwg.html  <-- this is the only working schema afaik
09:54 kf           but the closednessof that new standard is what worries me most
09:53 rangi        according to them, MARC21 == MARC
09:53 rangi        MARC 21 is one possible schema for encoding records created using RDA, but it will also be possible to encode records created using RDA in other schemas, such as MODS or Dublin Core.
09:53 kf           some of my coworkers work with it I think
09:52 mtj          lol, fail
09:52 rangi        im not going to pay to find out :)
09:52 kf           http://www.rda-jsc.org/rda.html
09:51 kf           hm not sure the toolkit does
09:51 rangi        ie, the standard refrences marc21 fields
09:51 kf           i think germany is a member now
09:51 rangi        in practicality it is
09:51 kf           but when you look at the group that invented it, probably mostly US
09:51 rangi        in theory its not
09:51 kf           it's not in principle I think... it's new cataloging rules
09:50 mtj          wow, i havent even considered that RDA was just a USMARC thing :/
09:47 kf           germany adopts rda.. but we are marc21 users too
09:47 kf           they would have to add fields to their marc flavour
09:47 * mtj        does a quik google…
09:47 kf           if other were to adopt RDA
09:47 rangi        yes
09:47 kf           i think so
09:46 mtj          curious, is RDA a spec for MARC21/USMARC only?
09:42 mtj          kf, ah yes, -  i did see that patch somewhere…
09:41 kf           because our default is in general a bit out of date
09:41 kf           he did a new default one adding all the new fields and subfields
09:41 mtj          ...or, can they just ignore those fields?
09:41 kf           and that is waiting for sign-off
09:41 kf           mtj: before you update the frameworks - it might be inlcuded in the update bgkriegel did
09:41 mtj          is it problematic for a library that does not use rda, to have an rda-enabled fwrk?
09:39 rangi        thats why im so keen on 3.14 to be able to care about other metadata formats
09:38 drojf        i thought it's all about fun for cataloguers, not information for patrons :P
09:37 rangi        :)
09:37 wahanui      i already had it that way, huginn.
09:37 huginn       rangi: Quote #252: "<@jcamins> Really the issues is that Anglo-American libraries have settled on a profoundly stupid format that utterly fails to express anything that patrons care about, while going on at great length about things patrons don't care about." (added by chris at 10:42 PM, May 26, 2013)
09:36 rangi        @quote get 252
09:36 rangi        hmm i have a good quote for this
09:36 rangi        course its only valid for MARC21 too
09:36 rangi        as long as someone is going to keep it up to date
09:36 rangi        but i guess it wouldnt hurt
09:35 rangi        (there are proposed fields still that are being accepted)
09:35 rangi        and its a moving target
09:35 rangi        because lots of places are not using RDA yet
09:34 rangi        i wouldnt no
09:33 mtj          rangi, so updating the '*marc*_framework_DEFAULT.sql' files with RDA stuff, is still a valid patch?
09:29 drojf        hi rangi and mtj
09:29 rangi        hi drojf
09:28 rangi        if its in your framework, it shows up, so you just have to load the RDA framework
09:28 mtj          heya drojf
09:28 rangi        mtj: yep
09:28 mtj          … well, thats the RDA display problem sorted :)
09:28 drojf        good day #koha
09:27 mtj          aaaah, the rda data is already viewable via the marc-view?
09:26 rangi        i think it was dead before it started
09:26 rangi        and moved on to bibframe
09:26 rangi        LOC dumped it on the world
09:26 rangi        im not holding my breath
09:26 rangi        make the display/search mods at that point
09:25 rangi        and when/if someone actually figures out what use there is for it
09:25 rangi        you can see it all in the marc
09:25 mtj          yep
09:25 rangi        have the framework, store the data, tick the rda box
09:25 rangi        it really seems like an utter waste of time
09:24 rangi        cos there is no way to automatically convert from aarc2 to rda
09:24 rangi        and since it will probably take about 20 years
09:24 rangi        so you have to try and do some mixed thing
09:24 rangi        you will end up making big chunks of your catalogue unfindable
09:23 rangi        unless you have all your records catalogued with rda
09:23 rangi        indexing it is pointless
09:23 rangi        xslt you can make your own, with the new syspref
09:22 mtj          ie: xslt/tt and zebra mods
09:21 mtj          rangi, we still need some additional patches to display and index/search RDA data correctly, i think?
09:20 * kf         hides
09:18 rangi        kf: yep and then you have MARC RDA .. its retarded squared!!
09:18 * kf         gets out the coookie jar
09:17 mtj          yeah, i agree with all of that… :/
09:16 rangi        yay huge improvement!!
09:16 rangi        all you can do is show it to them, and they will go, wtf is this supposed to mean
09:15 rangi        no benefit at all for library users
09:15 rangi        ie, its a librarian standard for librarians
09:15 rangi        what is missing is any explaination of wtf you are supposed to do with the data
09:15 kf           like the R in MARC? :)
09:15 rangi        mtj: its all there already, just add the framework
09:14 rangi        RDA the R is for Retarded
09:12 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10344 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , add RDA support to Koha
09:12 mtj          fwiw, ive created a bug 10344 for this...
09:10 kf           mtj: thereis also rangi's rda framework on the wiki
09:09 kf           hm wonder when update 10 happened, i shoudl get my rda knowledge updated too :)
09:08 mtj          cool, thanks for the link kf++
09:05 kf           ' codes were established     in MARC Update 10.'
09:04 kf           http://www.loc.gov/marc/RDAinMARC.html
09:04 kf           i take it bakc then
09:04 kf           oh there is a codenow
09:04 kf           maybe i am mistaken
09:03 kf           *shrug*
09:03 mtj          wow, how is that supposed to work.. ever?
09:02 kf           i think rda will cause some i18n issues at least with the carrier/media types being text in *your* language
09:02 mtj          yes.. yes.. of course!
09:01 kf           and xslt
09:01 kf           and I think we'd need some new indexes
09:01 kf           there was a blog post about rda a while back
09:01 kf           i think bywater might have been working on it
09:00 mtj          hmm, perhaps i should make a bug to add RDA stuff to Koha
08:59 kf           nope not currently
08:58 mtj          is there anyone running any RDA framworks with Koha, atm?
08:57 kf           hard to keep up with
08:57 kf           yep
08:54 mtj          ...yep, and improving at an increasingly faster pace
08:54 * kf         waves too
08:54 kf           yep :)
08:48 rangi        the best thing with Koha is its always improving
08:45 Viktor       And 3.12 looks sweet!
08:45 Viktor       I must say that Koha gives me less headache than the other stuff I have to get right in the current migration :)
08:44 Viktor       Hi rangi and mtj
08:43 * mtj        waves to Viktor and rangi
08:19 rangi        hi Viktor
08:19 Viktor       Morning Koha :)
07:16 christophe_c hello #koha
07:12 kf           good morning #koha
07:12 wahanui      i heard germs was http://i.imgur.com/5UfhT.jpg
07:12 huginn       GERMS!!!!
07:05 asaurat      hi
07:00 gaetan_B     hello
06:57 wahanui      kai ora, alex_a
06:57 alex_a       bonjour
06:44 reiveune     hello
05:53 huginn       cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 6.7°C (7:50 AM CEST on May 27, 2013). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 92%. Dew Point: 6.0°C. Windchill: 7.0°C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014 hPa (Steady).
05:53 cait         @wunder Konstanz
05:53 cait         hm extra grey monday...
04:36 eythian      a bit early, that's what I said :)
04:36 cait         shortly after 6
04:36 cait         normal time
04:34 eythian      isn't it a bit early there?
04:32 cait         good
04:31 eythian      haven't broken yet, no
04:31 cait         still working?
04:31 cait         hi eythian
04:31 eythian      hi cait
04:30 cait         good morning #koha
04:06 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9930 critical, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Pushed to Stable , can't update patron info in ccsr
04:06 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10293 blocker, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Pushed to Stable , Bug 9930 needs to be reverted for 3.10.x
04:06 jenkins_koha Kyle M Hall: Bug 10293 - Bug 9930 needs to be reverted for 3.10.x
04:06 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.10.x build #123: SUCCESS in 40 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.10.x/123/
03:26 rangi        bgkriegel++
03:25 jenkins_koha Starting build #123 for job Koha_3.10.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
00:26 tcohen       nice reading eythian !
00:20 wajasu       whoa!
00:19 eythian      http://www.modernperlbooks.com/mt/2013/05/ejecting-cgipm-from-the-perl-core.html
00:14 wajasu       i'll write it up and a patch and give a test.  i think my librarian will be happy
00:13 wajasu       yup
00:13 wizzyrea     that's a bug
00:13 wajasu       i found that if the GetNormailzedISBN routine in Koha.pm  doesn't remove the tailing " (v.1)" and such, then the Business::ISBN returns a blank ISBN and that gets submitted inthe URL to Amazon. Thus no cover image.  I tried $isbn =~ s/(.*)( \| | \()(.*)/$1/;  and now i am getting more cover images.