Time Nick Message 01:22 mtj wizzyrea , about? 01:24 wizzyrea wuddup 01:24 mtj we should swap the problematic mibbit link on the support page, for this one 01:25 mtj http://webchat.oftc.net/?channels=koha 01:25 wizzyrea yep 01:25 mtj fwiw, i just tried the mibbit link and got a banned error, too 01:26 mtj cool ^^ 01:26 wizzyrea there is some kind of drama going on there 01:28 wizzyrea shouldn't need the mibbit greeter anymore :) 01:28 mtj ahem ;) 01:28 mtj oops, amen 01:28 wizzyrea can you detect when people are coming in from a particular domain? 01:29 wizzyrea I suppose you could have it greet everybody that isn't on the IRC regulars list ;) 01:29 wizzyrea everybody who joins, that is 01:29 mtj hmm, looks like you can... 01:29 mtj test1_ has userhost ~oftc-webi@121-73-232-162.broadband.telstraclear.net and realname OFTC WebIRC Client 01:30 eythian wahanui: caps lock is CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL 01:30 wahanui OK, eythian. 01:31 mtj my secret reason for the mibbit greeter was to encourage people to choose a proper username 01:32 eythian I think it never worked 01:32 mtj it ws really a mibbit nagger 01:32 mtj yep 01:32 jcamins I never saw anyone change their nick. 01:32 eythian wahanui: caps lock is also <reply>bash: LS: command not found 01:32 wahanui okay, eythian. 01:33 dcook I may have seen o ne or two people change their nick, but that might be wishful thinking on my part 01:35 mtj i would be thrilled to say goodbye to both mibbit and the mibbit greeter :) 01:36 cjh welcome bcak tcohen 01:36 cjh where bcak is back... close enough. 01:36 tcohen hi cjh 01:36 * wizzyrea saw people change their nick 01:36 tcohen just finished watching latest how met your mother's episode 01:37 tcohen and passing by 01:37 trea caps lock 01:37 wahanui bash: LS: command not found 01:37 trea heh 01:38 mtj tho, in mibbit's defense - it may well be possible to turn off mibbit's auto-nick feature 01:39 wizzyrea yea I think it is 01:39 jcamins The problem was never with the mibbit service. 01:39 wizzyrea i think my reasoning was 01:39 wizzyrea to make it as easy as possible for people to just hop in here and talk 01:39 mtj …so, that may have been our fault, for leaving that on 01:40 mtj yeah, a fair call liz :) 01:40 jcamins I was never bothered by the nick. 01:40 jcamins The questions, on the other hand... 01:40 wizzyrea I figured, I think, that if they really intended to stay around, they'd choose a nick eventually 01:40 jcamins Not that all mibbiters asked painful questions, nor that non-mibbiters don't occasionally ask painful questions. 01:40 wizzyrea if it was a drive by mibbiting, oh well. 01:44 mtj i guess you cant stop people asking stupid questions… 01:44 mtj you can just hope to identify them better :) 01:55 wizzyrea anyway, that's fixed. 01:59 mtj wooo, thanks wizzyrea++ 02:01 jcamins rangi: what's the best way to get old release notes, in your opinion? 02:01 rangi hm? 02:01 rangi pre when we were sticking them in the repo? 02:01 jcamins I think it would be helpful to have release notes for previous stable releases. 02:02 jcamins We have 3.0.* and then just the 3.x.0 release notes. 02:02 rangi they'll be in the mailing list archives 02:02 rangi someone could hunt them down and commit them 02:02 rangi would be good 02:03 jcamins Ah, let me clarify the question: I have two proposals for doing this, and I want to know which one is better. 02:03 rangi we must know some librarians who could do that :) 02:03 jcamins Option one: figure out git grep, retrieve all commits that touch misc/release_notes/*, cherry-pick to master. 02:03 rangi right 02:03 jcamins Option two: copy all newer release notes out of misc/release_notes on each branch, commit them en masse. 02:04 rangi option 3 02:04 rangi put them all in kohadocs repo 02:04 wizzyrea ^ 02:04 jcamins Ooh. 02:04 jcamins I like that option better. 02:04 jcamins A lot better. 02:04 jcamins That is a nice option. 02:05 rangi yep, just as long as we dont get in the way of the manual 02:05 rangi but i think a release_notes dir 02:05 rangi would be fine 02:05 rangi then if ppl wanted they could do 02:05 rangi en/ fr/ es/ 02:05 rangi etc 02:18 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Update 3.12 release notes for Koha 3.12.0-rc2 <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=6f9b5f34863e5e76621a75050cf4a9da00587017> / Language update for 3.12-RC <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=63302e77b84cd4a2b5f3745a1338a5257d6f0fb7> / Merge branch 'bug_10030' into 3.14-master <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=696e83e42d9a6d044d0754950b55 02:19 jcamins Building RC2. 02:24 jenkins_koha Starting build #34 for job Koha_3.12.x (previous build: SUCCESS) 02:31 mtompset Have a good day. :) 03:02 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.12.x build #34: SUCCESS in 38 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.12.x/34/ 03:02 jenkins_koha * D Ruth Bavousett: Language update for 3.12-RC 03:02 jenkins_koha * Kyle M Hall: Bug 10030 - MaxFines checks against amount, not amount outstanding 03:02 jenkins_koha * Marcel de Rooy: Bug 10030: QA Followup for trivial false warning detected while testing 03:02 jenkins_koha * Jared Camins-Esakov: Update 3.12 release notes for Koha 3.12.0-rc2 03:02 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10030 major, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Pushed to Master , MaxFines checks against amount, not amount outstanding 03:03 jenkins_koha Starting build #1175 for job Koha_master (previous build: STILL UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #1164 9 days 13 hr ago) 03:16 eythian wahanui: welcome is <reply>Welcome to zombo.com 03:16 wahanui OK, eythian. 03:16 * cjh keeps waiting 03:18 trea anything? anything at all? 03:18 eythian the only limitation is yourself, at zombo.com 03:18 trea i knew it. 03:18 trea tv 03:18 trea tv? 03:18 trea bah 03:18 wizzyrea wahanui: tv? 03:18 wahanui no idea, wizzyrea 03:19 wizzyrea aw 03:19 eythian are you losing an argument with yourself? 03:19 wizzyrea yea. 03:19 wizzyrea clearly 03:19 trea could be 03:19 cjh if you are losing an argument with yourself, at least you are also winning. 03:20 * wizzyrea blinks at zombo.com 03:20 cjh wizzyrea: it is worth the wait. 03:20 wizzyrea uhhuh 03:21 * ibeardslee waits 04:16 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1175: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 13 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/1175/ 04:16 jenkins_koha * Kyle M Hall: Bug 10030 - MaxFines checks against amount, not amount outstanding 04:16 jenkins_koha * Marcel de Rooy: Bug 10030: QA Followup for trivial false warning detected while testing 04:16 jenkins_koha * D Ruth Bavousett: Language update for 3.12-RC 04:16 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10030 major, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Pushed to Master , MaxFines checks against amount, not amount outstanding 04:16 jenkins_koha * Jared Camins-Esakov: Update 3.12 release notes for Koha 3.12.0-rc2 06:28 * magnuse waves 06:29 magnuse jcamins++ druthb++ for rc2 06:42 reiveune hello 06:42 marcelr hello #koha 06:43 magnuse bonjour! 06:43 magnuse @wunder boo 06:43 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 13.0°C (8:20 AM CEST on May 16, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 44%. Dew Point: 1.0°C. Pressure: 29.80 in 1009 hPa (Steady). 06:43 magnuse woohoo! 06:43 magnuse @wunder marseille 06:43 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Marseille, France is 13.0°C (8:30 AM CEST on May 16, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 29.42 in 996 hPa (Steady). 06:43 magnuse hah! 06:46 magnuse :-) 06:53 christophe_c hello #koha 06:53 magnuse bonjour christophe_c 06:53 marcelr hi christophe_c 06:53 christophe_c bonjour magnuse ;-) 06:53 marcelr hi magnuse 06:54 christophe_c hello marcelr 06:54 magnuse hiya marcelr 07:05 rangi evening 07:06 huginn GERMS!!!! 07:06 wahanui Germs originated in Germany, before rapidly spreading throughout the rest of the world. 07:07 kf wahanui botsnack cookie 07:07 wahanui thanks kf :) 07:12 magnuse hi rangi and kf 07:13 alex_a hello 07:13 wahanui hey, alex_a 07:45 rangi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-_x5pJe5Og 09:01 * magnuse imagins that everyone on #koha followed rangi's link and is now bouncing around on youtube :-) 09:31 kf :) 09:42 magnuse @wunder boo 09:42 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 14.0°C (11:20 AM CEST on May 16, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 48%. Dew Point: 3.0°C. Pressure: 29.80 in 1009 hPa (Steady). 10:11 tweetbot [off] twitter: @pierrevdk: "Almost finished ! #Kohails http://t.co/B2FvhJcKNV" 10:56 jcamins What should I make for breakfast? 10:58 magnuse pizza! 10:59 jcamins Ummm... 10:59 jcamins probably not. 11:00 magnuse awww... 11:00 jcamins Myshkin has grabbed my sweater and pulled me down to nearly bent in half. 11:01 jcamins Apparently he really wants his ears scratched right now. 11:02 magnuse better prioritize that ocer breakfast then 11:07 kf_away croissant? 11:07 jcamins kf_away: yes, I'll just throw one together quickly... :P 11:12 * magnuse wishes there was a way to make real croissants quickly ;-) 11:12 magnuse or pain au chocolate 11:12 jcamins magnuse: me too! If there were, I could have one for breakfast! 11:12 jcamins Mmmm. 11:13 magnuse hm, is it really "pain"? 11:13 jcamins In more ways than one! :P 11:13 magnuse yup 11:13 * magnuse does not find pain au chocolate painful... ;-) 11:13 jcamins Not when eating. 11:13 magnuse oh the bakeries in marseille... 11:14 jcamins When making, on the other hand... 11:15 slef depends how many razor blades are put in it 11:16 slef jcamins: do you get Jus-Rol over there? 11:17 jcamins slef: I don't think so. Never heard of it. 11:17 jcamins It's based in Berwick-upon-Tweed! 11:17 slef yeah, but licensing spreads stuff everywhere 11:18 jcamins Sure, but I've visited Berwick-upon-Tweed. Exciting! 11:18 slef http://www.jusrol.co.uk/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductId=33 11:18 jcamins Heh. I'd never be able to convince myself to use that. 11:19 slef I wouldn't bother with most of the pastry, but the pain au chocolate and the croissants are worth it, unless you like getting up earlier to do it properly. 11:19 jcamins Which I do not. 11:20 slef Is there any way to do the first steps of a dough overnight and then chill it? I've yet to find one that works well. 11:21 slef Anyway, I looked in because I'm trying to remember how to see if one string is in another in SQL :) 11:21 slef Not to discuss morning goods! 11:21 magnuse #koha - the food channel :-) 11:21 marcelr you have to eat :) 11:22 jcamins There is, so long as you want want to make an artisan-style bread. Folded pastries like croissants are more problematic, I think. 11:22 jcamins slef: LOCATE('York', 'New York') 11:22 slef arrrrrrrrrgh it has just reminded me I've forgotten to start the bread baking for lunch though :) As soon as I've done this, I'll go sort that out 11:22 slef LOCATE! Doesn't involve STR at all! 11:23 slef thanks jcamins 11:23 slef jcamins: now you see, I thought they were pastries, but Jus-Rol label it "Dough" :-/ 11:26 jcamins Alas, I have no fruit. 11:30 slef @quote add <jcamins> Alas, I have no fruit. 11:30 huginn slef: The operation succeeded. Quote #249 added. 11:30 * slef gets 0 lines from this report, goes to read the wiki again :-/ 11:36 jcamins I do have blueberry jam, though. 11:54 * magnuse just got "artisan bread in 5 minutes a day" in the mail 11:54 jcamins :) 11:54 jcamins Maybe I should do that for tomorrow. 11:55 kf_away jcamins: did you see msaby's comment? 11:55 magnuse i'm a little worried that the next book by the same people is called *healthy* bread in 5 minutes a day... ;-) 11:55 jcamins kf_away: now I did. 11:57 jcamins magnuse: hehe. 11:57 jcamins That's referring to the "healthy" craze in the US, not the actual healthfulness of the bread. 11:57 magnuse hehe 11:58 magnuse maybe they got hit by the low carb wave or something 12:00 slef Do we have an easy way to spot unused authority headings? 12:00 slef depends how many razor blades are put in it 12:01 magnuse isn't there a syspref that decides if unused headings are displayed or not? 12:01 magnuse must be some logic connected to that 12:01 * slef looks 12:01 slef OPACShowUnusedAuthorities 12:03 slef my @usedauths = grep { $_->{used} > 0 } @$results; 12:03 slef where... 12:03 slef my ( $results, $total, @fields ) = SearchAuthorities( \@marclist, \@and_or, \@excluding, \@operator, \@value, $startfrom * $resultsperpage, $resultsperpage, $authtypecode, $orderby ); 12:03 slef so this is doable from perl 12:04 slef is uses the zebra index 12:05 slef which may be why trying to do it in a SQL report sucks... thank magnuse 12:05 * slef sends a "here's a perl script" reply 12:06 jcamins Yes. 12:07 jcamins That would definitely make doing it via SQL problematic. 12:17 slef I love it when library catalogues contain stuff like this "Lovenheim, Peter. 2024, Portrait of a burger as a young calf :, c2002" 12:19 jcamins lol 12:24 oleonard Hi #koha 12:25 slef hi Doctor oleonard! 12:25 kf_away what did we miss? :) 12:28 oleonard If I was given an honorary doctorate I must have missed the ceremony. 12:32 tcohen morning #koha 12:36 tcohen jcamins: arond? 12:36 tcohen s/o/ou/ 12:36 jcamins I am. 12:37 tcohen as you noted in that koha-* bug, i didn't notice I changed the semantics of several koha-* commands 12:38 tcohen basically, I output to stderr that no instances where specified 12:38 tcohen i'd need to add a check or a redirection to devnull 12:38 tcohen in in a very specific script that is run on install 12:59 tweetbot [off] twitter: @27point7: "unit test drives me mad :( #KohaILS" 13:02 slef oleonard: I was usggesting it was fake, like doctor Nick in the Simpsons 13:03 * oleonard deflates 13:04 * kf_away feels for 27point7 13:04 kf_away can we help him somehow? 13:04 kf_away he is talking about bug 7593 13:04 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7593 major, P5 - low, ---, mathieu.saby, Pushed to Master , merging bib records loses connection to order line 13:05 jcamins I can't. 13:05 jcamins If you know data is missing you can post it on the bug. 13:05 kf_away no idea what jenkins has as data 13:06 jcamins All the sample data, and nothing else. 13:06 kf_away I think we should try and make this available somewhere at some pint 13:06 kf_away i think it has some items 13:06 kf_away and records, but not totally sure 13:06 jcamins Yes, all the sample data. 13:06 jcamins Including the bibliographic data. 13:07 kf_away there is no bibiographic official sample data 13:09 magnuse there are some records associated with tests 13:09 jcamins Last time I ran an install I was very surprised to be asked if I wanted to install bibliographic records. 13:09 magnuse huh? 13:10 jcamins In addition to the usual options, there was an option to install sample bib records. 13:10 jcamins I presume it was added during 3.10 and I wasn't paying attention, because I certainly didn't push it. 13:11 jcamins Anyway, anyone is welcome to document things however they like, so long as further questions are directed toward someone not me. 13:12 magnuse hehe 13:13 * magnuse can't see any sample records in installer/data/mysql/en/ 13:13 kf_away jcamins: there is no such options 13:13 kf_away sorry to say that 13:13 jcamins Hm. 13:13 jcamins I wonder why I was offered one. 13:13 jcamins Must've been a patch I failed. 13:13 kf_away hm maybe only en? 13:14 jcamins If you want a copy of an out-of-date Jenkins database, it is available at kohadev.cpbibliography.com/jenkinsdb.sql.bz2 for a few days more. 13:14 kf_away hm don't find any on master 13:15 * jcamins shrugs. Must've been something I was testing at some point. 13:16 jcamins Wow. Over a thousand patches in 3.12. 13:16 magnuse yay 13:17 jcamins Not counting merges. 13:18 tcohen OMG 13:18 tcohen that's a lot of human labour! 13:19 kf_away it is :) 13:19 tcohen jcamins: do I remove the check or add one in koha-common.init? 13:19 kf_away koha is awesome :) 13:21 magnuse it is :-) 13:24 jcamins tcohen: it's up to you. I don't have a strong opinion either way. 13:25 tcohen ack jcamins 13:26 magnuse there are test records at least in t/db_dependent/www/data/ and t/db_dependent/Record/testrecords/ 13:26 jcamins magnuse: yeah, but those are for unit tests. 13:26 magnuse the first one has one each for marc21 and unimarc, there are more in the second dir 13:27 jcamins I don't doubt that those are the ones on Jenkins, though I never looked at the second to see what they are. 13:27 jcamins I *do* doubt. 13:27 magnuse this was mostly in reply to kf saying "there is no bibiographic official sample data" :-) 13:27 jcamins I shouldn't have revised my statement from "I don't think" to "I doubt." It just results in confusion. 13:27 magnuse hehe 13:35 oleonard Hey, you know who's a string-safe patch that still needs signoff? Bug 9773 is a string-safe patch that still needs signoff! 13:35 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9773 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Replace YUI AJAX calls in cataloging plugins with jQuery 13:35 jcamins You know what other string-safe patches still could do with sign offs? 13:36 jcamins Bug 9452 and bug 10230. 13:36 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9452 blocker, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Needs Signoff , C4::Letters does not function under Plack 13:36 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10230 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Needs Signoff , Match points do not work with authorities 13:49 gmcharlt @quote random 13:49 huginn gmcharlt: Quote #190: "<jcamins> Hehe. Guillotine: the revolutionary card game you win by getting a head <asaurat> lol <asaurat> I mean mdr" (added by slef at 03:46 PM, February 28, 2012) 14:03 Viktor Having a sort of embarrassing problem - can't seem to get Kyles virtual appliance to work in Virtual box? 14:10 kf_away Viktor: sorry - have never used it 14:10 kf_away khall around? 14:10 khall what's up? 14:11 kf_away oh that worked fast :D 14:11 kf_away Viktor has a problem with the virtual appliance and I thought noone would know better than you :) 14:11 khall heh ; ) 14:11 Viktor Wow :) 14:11 khall what's the issue? Is it a networking problem? 14:11 Viktor khall Yes. Did not get any IP address. 14:12 Viktor Tried some different networking settings in virtualbox 14:12 khall did you try the option in the Koha shell menu that's supposed to fix it? 14:12 khall it's an issue with Debian, 14:12 Viktor But can't seem to find the hotwos that I think used to be on your site back in 2009 or so :) 14:12 Viktor Yes I did. 14:13 Viktor Just 14:14 Viktor Just tried some random stuff from the webb but no real help there. 14:14 Viktor sudo sh -c ?cat /dev/null > /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules? 14:14 khall yeah, that's the one 14:14 Viktor Tried it and powered the machine off and booted. Still nothing :/ 14:15 khall if you run '/sbin/ifconfig' do you see eth0? 14:16 Viktor Yes I do. 14:16 Viktor (and it's bridged to WiFi in virtualbox) 14:17 khall ok, that's good and bad. It means it's not a problem with the virtual appliance, but with your virtualbox configuration. That bad is that I probably can't help you any further. 14:17 khall Have you tried setting it to NAT instead? 14:17 jcamins Viktor: are you trying to access it from the same computer you're running VirtualBox on? 14:17 Viktor My college tried NAT yesterday on his computer and got an IP but no response when accessing it on the host computer. 14:18 khall that makes sense, 14:18 Viktor I tried NAT before executing the command stated above - nothing. Might be worth a new shot. 14:18 khall NAT will only let the VM access the outside world, not visa versa 14:18 Viktor Do you know anything on what issues I should research? 14:18 khall so, for that config, you need a NATed network interface, and a local network interface 14:19 Viktor I see. 14:19 khall that is, a Host-Only Adapter 14:20 jcamins You can also forward ports with NATed network interfaces, though I always use NAT + Host-Only Adapter. 14:20 khall so you will have two virtual networking interfaces, one lets the VM access the outside world, and the other let's the host machine access the VM 14:21 Viktor Hm. Setting up stuff like that is a bit outside my area of expertise :) 14:22 jcamins Not for long! :D 14:22 Viktor Guess I'll fool around a bit further with the settings in VirtualBox. 14:22 Viktor jcamins :) 14:23 khall I understand. Just go into the VirtualBox network configuration, and enable adapter 1 as NAT, and adapter 2 as Host-only Adapter. Then boot it up and run /sbin/ifconfig. You should see eth0 and eth1 14:23 khall type the ip of eth1 into a web browser on your host machine and you should be good to go 14:24 Viktor Hm. Wont let me save that config "invalid settings detected" 14:25 Viktor If i disable all network interfaces it says "non-optimal settings detected" but won't help me identify what the non-optimal ones are. 14:26 Viktor Fresh install of VirtualBox on a new machine and the virtual appliance with no changes. 14:34 jcamins Viktor: if you go through each tab, it will tell you what settings are invalid. 14:37 Viktor jcamins - I think so too. But I see nothing. Just the red ! at the bottom with "Non-optimal settings detected". Nothing lights up in any of the tabs and the text can't be clicked. Clicking the question mark produces the manual but no context. 14:38 tcohen jcamins: bug 10259 14:38 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10259 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Needs Signoff , koha-*-zebra scripts are expected to run without warnings if no instance name passed 14:38 jcamins Odd. On my system it will tell me "not enough RAM/duplicate MAC/etc." 14:38 jcamins tcohen: thanks! 14:40 Viktor jcamins - It's happier now with the non-optimal stuff since I pulled up the amount of video memory. But that shouldn't help with the networking I think... 14:41 jcamins Viktor: no, but it will make it stop complaining, anyway. 14:41 jcamins :) 14:41 Viktor Lol yeah :) 14:45 tcohen @later tell rangi you forgot to mention tagging 14:45 huginn tcohen: The operation succeeded. 14:53 tcohen jcamins, do release maintainers need a gpg key? 14:53 jcamins tcohen: yes. 14:53 jcamins You have to sign your tags, tarballs, and potentially packages. 14:53 tcohen great 15:03 pianohacker mornin' 15:03 * oleonard welcomes pianohacker back to the ole salt mines 15:04 Viktor Thanks for the help people! The best I managed was to get 10.0.2.15 but not being able to connect to it. I'll fool around some more but have to run now. 15:06 kf_away morning pianohacker 15:06 kf_away hm wondering, does this column name still make sense with hourly loans? Fine grace period (day) 15:07 * druthb waves at kf_away, who is clearly kf_not_away 15:07 kf_away oh yeah 15:07 pianohacker hi druthb, kf 15:07 kf i was 15:07 druthb hi, pianohacker! :D 15:08 kf The 'Fine Grace Period' is the period of time an item can be overdue before you start charging fines. Important: This can only be set for the Day unit, not in Hours < so it probably is sitll right 15:08 jcamins kf: right, it's still days-only. 15:13 kf all libraries want to have different fines for each notice level :( 15:13 kf it's driving me crazy to tell them 'no you can't do that' 15:13 kf *sigh* 15:14 slef but they can... just tell them the estimated price of adding it... puts most libraries off "nah, it's not that important" 15:14 jcamins ^^ works every time 15:15 kf heh 15:18 reiveune bye 15:18 oleonard That's why Koha doesn't have NCIP support (and we've never missed it) 15:28 Dyrcona kf: You could always migrate to Evergreen.... ;) 15:29 * oleonard stones Dyrcona for heresy 15:29 * druthb hands oleonard more rocks. 15:30 Dyrcona Help, help! I'm being repressed! :p 15:30 * Dyrcona gets in trouble in #evergreen for suggesting new people also look at Koha before deciding on an ILS. 15:30 * oleonard switches to smaller rocks 15:30 Dyrcona :) 15:32 kf oleonard: aren't smaller rocks meaner actually? 15:32 kf .) 15:32 oleonard Geez, everyone complained when I threw peanut M&Ms too. I can't win! 15:32 kf Dyrcona: I think my head can only store all the config options for one ILS 15:32 kf limited memory up there :) 15:33 oleonard Last week someone added a new system pref to Koha and it made me forget how to use a microwave. 15:33 kf lol 15:34 * kf does neither have a microwave nor a tv... 15:37 kf and now I am leaving :) 15:37 kf bye all 15:37 kf and Dyrcona++ for getting in trouble in #evergreen :) 18:07 oleonard Never do I hate Windows more than when I'm searching for a file. 19:08 tcohen best feed reader? 19:08 pianohacker feedly atm 19:08 oleonard The one that suits your needs and doesn't rely on Google Reader. 19:09 tcohen i need one i can tag feeds, like "this goes for 3.12" 19:09 pianohacker yeah, and the latter knocks out about half of them unfortunately 19:09 pianohacker tag feeds or posts? 19:09 pianohacker what do you use, oleonard 19:10 oleonard I think Tiny Tiny RSS is the best FOSS option at the moment 19:10 oleonard I've tried it, but it 19:10 oleonard was pretty clunky 19:10 * gmcharlt likes TT-RSS 19:10 gmcharlt and it's now getting some quick updates because of the attention 19:11 pianohacker tt-rss does sound like quality, though the hearsay is that the devs are a bit grouchy 19:11 oleonard I've been using Fever because I wanted something self-hosted, although it isn't free: http://feedafever.com/ 19:11 jcamins I like TT-RSS. 19:11 tcohen i want to set my rmaint toolbox 19:12 oleonard I also like Fever because there's a nice app for iOS which works well with it. 19:12 * oleonard is full of heresy today, Dyrcona should gather some stones. 19:13 * maximep likes what a colleague at work is doing https://github.com/fcapovilla/caporss 19:14 pianohacker iOS heresy? 19:14 oleonard non-free 19:15 * jcamins shakes his head dolefull. For shame for shame. 19:15 pianohacker okay. can't do much about non-free, but iOS use in this channel is punishable by snide comments about Swype 19:15 tcohen swype++ 19:16 jcamins *dolefully 19:16 jcamins s/shame for/shame, for/ 19:17 oleonard s/head/distinguished melon 19:22 rangi rss2email + procmail is what i use 19:23 rangi tcohen: you dont tag until you release, wasnt planning to cover that until its closer to time for you do a release 19:23 tcohen great rangi 19:24 jcamins That reminds me. I remembered in the middle of the night I forgot to push the tags for the RCs. 19:25 jcamins ... and I don't see them at all. 19:25 jcamins Hmm. 19:27 * jcamins creates new ones, pushes them. 19:32 tcohen rangi, you run r2e from a cronjob? 19:32 rangi yep 19:33 oleonard rangi: I submitted a couple of 3.10.x versions of patches that didn't apply, but I wasn't sure if they needed new signoffs. I recreated them from scratch so they don't have the original signoffs on them. 19:33 oleonard Was there a more correct way of handling that? 19:33 rangi thats the new rmaints problem :) or at least i wont be pushing them before the 3.10.6 release 19:34 rangi nope thats the right way 19:34 oleonard Should they get new signoffs? 19:35 rangi depends on how complex they are 19:35 rangi basically thats a judgement call from the rmaint 19:48 pianohacker Is Koha::Cache intended as a replacement for C4::Context->memcached? 19:48 lavamind hello 19:48 wahanui hi, lavamind 19:49 rangi !jenkins build koha_master now 19:49 jenkins_koha rangi: job koha_master build scheduled now 19:49 rangi pianohacker: yes 19:49 jenkins_koha Starting build #1176 for job Koha_master (previous build: STILL UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #1164 10 days ago) 19:50 lavamind I run about 150 Koha instances on a server for teaching (every student has an instance), but the zebra_rebuild processes weight heavily on the server, but now I just dicovered this : http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6566 (Checking if DB records are properly indexed) 19:50 huginn 04Bug 6566: enhancement, P3, ---, christophe.croullebois, Pushed to Master , Checking if DB records are properly indexed 19:50 lavamind can I use this script to re-index *only when needed* ? 19:51 rangi it should only index when needed anyway 19:51 rangi ie, it does incremental indexing 19:51 rangi you are using the debian packages right? 19:51 lavamind rangi: yes, and reindexing through a cronjob 19:51 tcohen lavamind: you need to use koha-index-daemon from Koha::Contrib::Tamil 19:51 pianohacker rangi: Okay. It seems like the only way to use the cache robustly is to use Koha::Cache->is_cache_active, but that depends on the CACHING_SYSTEM env variable being set, which is not mentioned anywhere outside of Koha/Cache.pm. Am I missing something? 19:52 jcamins pianohacker: you are not. 19:52 jcamins is_cache_active is my least-favorite part of the caching system. 19:52 jcamins And, for the record, not my idea. 19:52 pianohacker Has memcached been made de-facto-required? 19:52 jcamins Nope. 19:53 jcamins Completely optional. 19:53 tcohen because the process spawn for every call to rebuild_zebra will make the server load go high 19:53 tcohen memcached is not supported by the default install method (packages) 19:53 jcamins pianohacker: is_cache_active is used to check whether you should even try to use the cache. 19:53 pianohacker That's what I figured; which makes the choices kind of crappy 19:53 jcamins pianohacker: what are you trying to do? 19:53 pianohacker RightR 19:53 rangi lavamind: hmm you have your own cron job, not just using the one that comes set up wih the packages? 19:54 lavamind rangi, tcohen: I'm using the default cronjob : test -x /usr/sbin/koha-rebuild-zebra && koha-rebuild-zebra $(koha-list --enabled) 19:54 rangi tcohen: yes i use memcached with packages, you just edit config, same as with tarball 19:54 pianohacker sorry about that, irc had a hiccup 19:54 jcamins pianohacker: in that case, you might not have seen me ask what you were trying to do. 19:54 lavamind I had to set it to */15 instead of */5 because it was killing the server 19:54 pianohacker jcamins: caching of oauth token for a search API 19:55 jcamins pianohacker: ah-ha. 19:55 tcohen tarball install provides you a way of getting it work out-of-the-box 19:55 tcohen check bug 8773 lavamind 19:55 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8773 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Needs Signoff , Add per-instance koha-index-daemon in .deb setup 19:55 rangi lavamind: the problem is it has to connect to the db to check to see if it needs to index 19:56 pianohacker The choices seem to be either use context->memcached, which is the old way but won't break, or try to use Koha/Cache.pm and be ready to catch an error with eval{} if ($@) 19:56 tcohen you might tweak the koha-common init script the same way those patches do 19:56 rangi tcohen: only for one single instance, otherwise its busted and 2 instances use the same cache namespace 19:56 jcamins pianohacker: don't use context->memcached. 19:56 tcohen and use koha-index-daemon 19:56 tcohen heh 19:56 tcohen I use the instance name as namespace 19:56 tcohen was for rangi) 19:56 rangi tcohen: for the tarball 19:57 rangi you said it can set it up 19:57 jcamins If you use that directly, you're ruling out any alternative caching systems. 19:57 rangi i say it does it wrong if you have 2 installs 19:57 tcohen rangi: the tarball asks for a namespaec 19:57 pianohacker jcamins: That's my understanding, so I'll just use a "try-catch" 19:57 lavamind tcohen: yes, Koha::Contrib::Tamil sounds like exactly what I need 19:57 jcamins That's the best bet. 19:57 tcohen we have a pre-packages setup with 38 instances 19:58 tcohen we use koha_<instance> as namespace 19:58 tcohen and use koha-index-daemon for the reindexing 19:58 tcohen 10 sec interval 19:58 rangi how do you upgrade? 38 make upgrades? 19:59 tcohen before i got here (and moved everyone to git) we deployed stuff using SVN 19:59 tcohen right now we continue to do it like that 19:59 rangi eeeeeew 19:59 tcohen i do a standard install in /usr/share/koha_xxx 19:59 tcohen and put that on SVN 20:00 tcohen then the upgrade scripts fix every koha_xxx for the right instance name 20:00 lavamind I use a Puppet class over here 20:00 pianohacker Is it a horrible Perl practice to return undef from a constructor if things went pear-shaped? That would be a handy modification to Koha::Cache->new 20:00 rangi i use a apt-get update 20:00 rangi and apt-get install koha-common 20:00 rangi done :) 20:00 lavamind when I upgrade I ensure => absent all instance 20:00 tcohen we are moving to packages with 3.12 20:00 rangi cool 20:01 tcohen but, will be building our own until 8773 is included 20:01 rangi the problem with that is 20:01 tcohen (or something that replaces it of course) 20:01 rangi it makes koha dependent on moose 20:01 jcamins pianohacker: that's a good question. I don't see why. 20:01 jcamins I mean, I don't see why that's bad. 20:02 tcohen yes rangi, that's why that patch got the lines commented 20:02 rangi yep 20:03 rangi so what someone needs to do, is package Koha::Contrib::Tamil 20:03 rangi and all its dependencies 20:03 tcohen eythian did that already 20:03 rangi its not clean 20:03 rangi it fights with the moose needed for solr 20:04 tcohen oh c'mon, so we have moose already ? :-D 20:04 rangi no 20:04 rangi its an optional thing, just like this would have to be 20:04 rangi because moose while great for programming in 20:04 lavamind tcohen: I'm running 3.8.6, references to koha-*-indexer are absent from the initscript, can I just add them in ? 20:04 rangi is slow as hell 20:04 jcamins Not to mention, you need different versions. 20:05 rangi and that 20:05 tcohen of course lavamind, but make sure Puppet fixes stuff when you upgrade 20:05 lavamind un, I just apt-get installed libkoha-contrib-tamil-perl 20:05 rangi i wonder if we could do it with mouse 20:05 rangi maybe tchohen and I will fix that at hackfest :) 20:05 jcamins rangi: I liked mouse better than moose anyway. 20:05 lavamind tcohen: yep good call 20:05 rangi its a zillion times faster 20:06 jcamins That's why I liked it. 20:06 jcamins Other than that, they both seem to over-promise. 20:06 tcohen i have (the first) appointment with the US embassy @ Buenos Aires by May 28 20:06 rangi excellent 20:06 rangi yeah 20:07 rangi http://search.cpan.org/~noirin/perl5i-v2.11.2/lib/perl5i.pm 20:07 rangi hehe 20:08 rangi but it would be nice to get that 8773 as a recommends, that conflicts with the solr stuff 20:09 pianohacker tcohen: Appointment with the US embassy? 20:09 rangi so if you wanted it it's there, but acknowledge the fact you cant use it an solr together .. currently 20:09 jcamins For a visa! 20:09 tcohen i had to pay for the visa and choose a date to go to buenos aires 20:10 tcohen its two consecutive days 20:10 tcohen (2 interviews) 20:10 pianohacker oh, cool. irritating that it's that much work though 20:11 tcohen i'll take a day to visit my family there, not big deal 20:11 rangi right now im really leaving :) 20:12 tcohen pianohacker: did I mention the two meetings in cordoba? 20:14 tcohen lavamind: how living with Puppet is? 20:15 tcohen is it difficult to deploy/maintain? 20:15 pianohacker tcohen: no, don't think so 20:16 tcohen our production guys are a bit reluctant to implement it 20:16 tcohen (at least they are trying openstack for our datacenter) 20:18 pianohacker jcamins: Come to think of it, the module isn't robust in general; the tied scalars/hashes require an existing $cache, which can't happen unless caching is enabled 20:19 jcamins pianohacker: error-checking is always welcome. 20:20 jcamins However, as far as I am aware, it works perfectly with caching disabled. 20:20 jcamins There is simply no caching. 20:21 jcamins I had hoped that some of the people who were pushing Plack would build on that to make Koha's codebase generally Plack-compatible, but in hindsight that was mostly just a time-consuming way for me to learn about variable tying. 20:21 lavamind tcohen: I couldn't do my job without Puppet, it's a life saver 20:22 pianohacker jcamins: really? I could be doing something wrong, but it seems like if Cache::Memcached::Fast is installed, new() will always try to load and use it, regardless of whether it's set up 20:23 lavamind tcohen: one thing I love about Puppet is that it's like documenting your setup at the same time 20:24 pianohacker constructing tied variables using Koha::Cache->create_scalar, per the original patch notes, fails with a "can't use string as ref" error 20:24 lavamind and no it wasn't difficult to set up, everything is packaged in Debian including backports 20:24 jcamins pianohacker: I can't say I particularly recall now, but it will not _use_ the cache unless caching is enabled. 20:24 jcamins Hm. 20:24 jcamins Guess a patch is needed, then. 20:24 lavamind tcohen: can I find the koha-*-indexer scripts somewhere other than the diff files ? 20:24 pianohacker okay, thanks. Just trying to figure out if I was misunderstanding, or whether there was a bug 20:25 pianohacker as it's the former more often than the latter some days :) 20:25 jcamins pianohacker: it could be either, but I'd suspect the latter. In the intervening months I have reviewed about 700 patches. 20:25 jcamins (so I simply don't remember) 20:25 tcohen lavamind: let me put them somewhere, i see the patch doesn't apply anymore 20:26 pianohacker Your name's in the author field, you're supposed to have a perfect memory of what it is and how it works 20:26 jcamins lol 20:28 jcamins Also, a point about Koha::Cache versus Koha::Cache::Object... the latter is mostly to simplify the painful job of making Plack + memcached not disastrous. There is no reason not to use Koha::Cache directly for cache access, if you're designing around the idea of caching from the start. 20:30 pianohacker makes sense 20:30 jcamins Indeed, using Koha::Cache directly is more efficient. 20:30 jcamins Tying variables is expensive. 20:30 jcamins It's just less expensive than a cron job that restart Plack every five minutes. 20:30 pianohacker hah! True that 20:31 pianohacker How does the koha-with-persistence work go, anyway? That was just starting when I left last time 20:31 jcamins And insignificant next to the amount of time it takes Apache to start. 20:31 tcohen lavamind: es.koha-community.org/koha-indexer-scripts.tar.gz 20:31 tcohen http://es.koha-community.org/koha-indexer-scripts.tar.gz 20:31 jcamins Koha's OPAC works mostly with Plack. 20:31 jcamins I run into problems with the staff client under Plack daily, or at least weekly. 20:32 pianohacker makes sense, much more complicated code 20:32 jcamins Unfortunately, we announced complete compatibility for 3.10. 20:32 pianohacker ... oh 20:33 tcohen can you get it lavamind ? 20:33 jcamins On the plus side, Plack on the staff client works way better than it used to. 20:34 lavamind tcohen: yes, thank you, I'm reviewing the scripts carefully :) 20:35 lavamind tcohen: our usernames have the format koha_username, is that a problem ? 20:36 lavamind actually nevermind, the system users are username-koha 20:36 tcohen are u using packages? 20:36 lavamind yes 20:36 tcohen ok ok 20:36 lavamind I was confusing the logins... it's been a while since I haven't touched the Koha stuff 20:36 lavamind since I have* 20:38 tcohen we could use this one instead of the moose-dependent code from tamil http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/attachment.cgi?id=17790 20:38 lavamind oh boy, will this work ? it'll spawn 111 daemons :p 20:38 tcohen and build a new indexer daemon 20:38 tcohen it will lavamind 20:38 tcohen :-P 20:39 tcohen lavamind: you could try runnning that for one instance for testing? 20:39 lavamind yes, about to. 20:43 lavamind tcohen: 20130516 16:43:16 prof-koha-indexer: client (pid 3661) exited with 2 status 20:44 tcohen koha-indexer-daemon-output.log? 20:45 lavamind Can't locate C4/Context.pm in @INC ..... 20:46 lavamind seems like deja-vu ... 20:47 tcohen if you prepend "export " to the KOHA_CONF definition? 20:47 tcohen (on koha-start-indexer) 20:47 tcohen bbl, sorry 21:00 jenkins_koha Yippie, build fixed! 21:00 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1176: FIXED in 1 hr 11 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/1176/ 21:37 pianohacker maximep: caporss looks quite interesting; do you have any screenshots or anything similar? 21:40 rangi back 21:42 pianohacker augh, the issues-rules table has exploded in the past two years 21:43 wizzyrea heh yea 21:46 * pianohacker gets an itch to do crazy things to the admin interface again 21:47 cait pianohacker: sounds like an excellent idea to me :) 21:53 maximep pianohacker: I can ask him to add a few to github. It basically looks like greader, but with bootstrap 21:54 pianohacker maximep: That's pretty clear, actually 21:55 pianohacker greader with better color choice and border-radius, essentially? 21:56 maximep basically :p 21:56 pianohacker awesome :) 21:56 maximep he has 0 design/html/css skills, so really default bootstrap 22:04 pianohacker ^^ use case of bootstrap 22:04 pianohacker plus laziness/lack of time, but mainly that 22:17 eythian rangi, trea: you remembered it's whisky o'clock this evening? 22:17 * trea points to the bottle of balvenie behind him. 22:18 pianohacker ? 22:18 wizzyrea "dudes drinking whisky" 22:18 wizzyrea and possibly some chicks. 22:18 wizzyrea at a specified o'clock 22:19 pianohacker self-explanatory enough, then :) Any particular reason? 22:19 eythian because friday 22:19 trea because....reasons 22:20 pianohacker oh, right, international date line 22:20 pianohacker timezones-- 22:20 cait timezones++ 22:20 cait lol 22:20 cait timezones-- timezones-- 22:20 cait i typoed 22:21 pianohacker My favorite timezones moment was trying to schedule something with people in the US, France and India 22:21 pianohacker and the cute little "optimum meeting scheduler" showed all three 8-hour workdays right next to each other, with absolutely no overlap 22:22 eythian wahanui: new zealand is <reply>http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/hardest-parts-about-living-in-new-zealand 22:22 wahanui OK, eythian. 22:22 pianohacker very much a "somebody's going to drink a lot of coffee that day" moment 22:25 pianohacker okay, what is going on in #24 and how is it legal 22:26 cjh "suits $20 not stolen" cant get much better. 22:26 rangi how else do you expect students to shift house pianohacker 22:26 cjh pianohacker: well it isnt overhanging the front of his vehicle... 22:26 pianohacker Is that a full-size refrigerator? Good lord 22:26 rangi it is 22:26 cjh although I am not sure about the visibility concerns. 22:27 rangi and a lawn mower on the roof 22:30 eythian nah, you'd be able to see out the driver's window 22:38 bag it's a baby zebra!!! 23:10 talljoy bre 23:10 talljoy oops. my bad. 23:37 rangi i didnt even know this existed 23:37 rangi http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/duplicates.cgi 23:38 wizzyrea oooo 23:39 eythian oh nifty 23:41 * jcamins curses Time Warner. 23:41 jcamins They have found a new and creative way to drive me nuts. 23:42 jcamins They poisoned Google's DNS. 23:42 eythian oh? 23:42 jcamins Well, Google's records in their DNS. 23:42 wizzyrea O.O 23:42 jcamins The DNS records are actually valid, but about 1 in 10 connection attempts succeeds. 23:43 eythian change your DNS to another provider? 23:43 wahanui eythian: that doesn't look right 23:43 jcamins eythian: yep, did that. 23:43 eythian wahanui: sorry, but it is. 23:43 wahanui eythian: huh? 23:44 eythian jcamins: and are they still being weird? 23:44 jcamins It's better, though not perfect. 23:46 wizzyrea have you checked the twitterz for other reports of such nonsense 23:46 jcamins And as soon as I said that, it went screwy. 23:46 jcamins I have not. Good idea. 23:48 wizzyrea "turning off google DNS fixed my internet" from 5 hours ago 23:48 jcamins Yeah, I was noticing that. 23:48 jcamins So... 23:48 jcamins Google's DNS is at fault, and Time Warner is using it? 23:48 wizzyrea perhaps the problem has recurred. 23:48 jcamins Bahahahahaha!!!!! 23:48 jcamins Nah, it was a problem this morning, too. 23:51 jcamins (so I'm thinking it is not a reoccurrence so much as still going on)