Time Nick Message
00:00 rangi yeah boi
00:02 jcamins You know, it's kind of incredible how standards have changed in the past thirty years.
00:03 eythian wahanui: jcamins is also <reply>ask him about serials and/or acquisitions.
00:03 wahanui okay, eythian.
00:03 jcamins I just proofread a grant proposal from 1982.
00:03 jcamins A successful grant proposal.
00:03 jcamins It had errors that a freshman comp student today would get docked for.
00:05 dcook I like to think of it as progress but who knows
00:05 dcook I think my parents stopped being able to help me with my math homework by...8th or 9th grade, and both were university educated
00:06 dcook Mind you, my school was significantly better than theirs...
00:06 jcamins dcook: that's something a little different, though. You mostly don't use any math above 9th grade level in normal life.
00:07 dcook jcamins: True, but they said they'd never even seen anything like that. It wasn't about them not remembering how to do it. They really just hadn't seen it. But yeah, that is different.
00:07 dcook What sort of errors are int he grant proposal?
00:07 dcook in the*
00:07 jcamins Spelling errors, some basic grammatical errors, and a complete absence of consistency.
00:07 jcamins On a single page there are no fewer than three ways of representing lists.
00:08 dcook Are you sure freshman comp students today would get docked for that?
00:08 jcamins 1. Like this
00:08 jcamins 2) Like this
00:08 jcamins (3) Like this
00:08 jcamins Well, maybe they wouldn't lose points, but certainly there would be notes.
00:08 dcook I don't know if that's necessarily true. It might depend on the instructor and the school.
00:08 dcook At the beginning of my university education, spelling, grammar, and consistency mattered a lot
00:09 dcook By the end, it seemed to me that it was normal for errors to be in "polished" works
00:09 dcook Normal not being a good thing though :p
00:10 dcook [off] During my honours and grad school, I was amazed at the written quality of work from students and professors alike. They either hadn't been proof-read or they hadn't been proof-read well.
00:10 * dcook shrugs
00:11 dcook [off] My grade 9/10 English teacher was practically illiterate. Couldn't read very well, couldn't spell, had no grasp of proper grammar, but she's the one who stopped me hating English class.
00:11 jcamins [off] Okay, granted, that's true, but still... this particular scholar's work is _better_ now than in 1982, and I find it staggering that journals are okay with publishing it.
00:12 dcook [off] Publishing current work or past work?
00:13 jcamins [off] I find it amazing that they will publish his current work, which is still much better than past work.
00:15 dcook [off] I had that same amazement during much of grad school. I was horrified at the quality of the readings that we were often assigned. Part of it was the complete absence of proper spelling, grammar, etc. Part of it was the lack of logical cohesion through much of the work. These essays were being published in academic journals, but if they had been submitted during a freshman class, they would've been torn apart by an instructor.
00:15 wizzyrea Real life is messy.
00:16 jcamins [off] I think I can summarize my feelings about the matter with the following statement: "scholarship is an embarrassment."
00:16 dcook wizzyrea: Generally speaking, that's the way I'm leaning these days
00:16 jcamins Sure, but you end up failing to communicate due to singularly simple errors.
00:16 dcook I think part of that had to do with gender neutral pronouns
00:16 wizzyrea real life doesn't make sense all the time.
00:17 dcook Mmm, agreed, jcamins
00:17 rangi fixed the redirects now too
00:17 dcook wizzyrea: True, but are there times where you get an email and you have zero idea what it says?
00:17 wizzyrea real life is messy :)
00:17 wizzyrea it's only a problem if they refuse to clarify
00:17 dcook In most cases, that's true
00:18 dcook It can be quite stressful during high pressure situations
00:18 wizzyrea and imo, if scholarly publications aren't producing scholarly quality works, then it isn't a scholarly publication.
00:18 jcamins [off] Yeah, which is why you should proof your work at least once before requesting $500k in 1982 dollars.
00:19 wizzyrea ...but they still got it
00:19 wizzyrea which means it must have 1. been better than the other submissions and 2. it was good enough for the grant givers
00:19 jcamins Yup.
00:20 wizzyrea which I think says more about the grant givers than the submitter.
00:20 jcamins Oh, no doubt.
00:21 jcamins Hence my comment about standards.
00:21 wizzyrea well, you have to wonder if their standards had to be lowered because of the lack of quality of the submissions
00:21 wizzyrea sometimes you just HAVE TO GET RID OF THE MONEY
00:21 wizzyrea it does happen :/
00:22 wizzyrea budget year's ending, whatever
00:22 jcamins [off] I am often the beneficiary of that. Especially in April/May/June.
00:22 jcamins That's a good point, though.
00:22 dcook true true
00:22 rangi phones arrived
00:22 wizzyrea \o/
00:22 dcook I was once in an "elite" program which turned out not to be so elite because the applicants just weren't there
00:23 jcamins Phones?
00:23 dcook Which lowered the overall quality of the program as well :(
00:23 jcamins There is something... off... about the (software) dock on my laptop, and I can't figure out what it is.
00:23 jcamins I think when the trackpad was randomly clicking it removed one of the icons that was there.
00:24 jcamins Clearly not an important one.
00:25 wizzyrea hate it when that happens
00:25 wizzyrea things out of order?
00:25 jcamins I've been staring at it for several minutes, and I can't see anything out of order, so... no?
00:28 dcook Going senile, jcamins
00:30 wizzyrea did the icon change for your favorite app?
00:30 wizzyrea i've had that happen.
00:30 wizzyrea or one of your apps
00:31 jcamins Oh, maybe it's that the memory allocation monitor isn't all red.
00:32 wizzyrea hehe
00:38 jcamins Actually, I think I would vote for a feature that made it impossible to set the branch.
00:38 jcamins Make sure that no one uses the db user.
00:39 wizzyrea ^^
00:39 dcook ?
00:40 wizzyrea or make it sufficiently irritating to set it (which it is now) that you don't bother to use it
00:49 dcook rangi, wizzyrea: Do you know if that issue with the z39.50 server description NULL/default value error ever got reported?
00:50 jcamins I don't think so.
00:51 dcook thanks, jcamins
00:52 dcook I'll enter one now
00:56 jcamins Bug 10079 is weird.
00:56 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10079 major, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Passed QA , HomeOrHoldingBranch should not control who can delete when IndependantBranches is enabled
00:57 jcamins You wouldn't think HomeOrHoldingBranch should have anything to do with deleting, ever.
00:58 wizzyrea http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaOC9danxNo
01:00 dcook Hmm, true as, jcamins
01:00 dcook I guess I can see the logic, but...doesn't sound like a great idea
01:01 jcamins I can't even see the logic.
01:01 * dcook goes and takes a look at the actual preference
01:01 dcook Ah..
01:01 dcook Yep, that's frakked
01:02 jcamins Wait...
01:02 jcamins I can't reproduce the bug.
01:03 jcamins Oh.
01:03 jcamins I see.
01:09 * dcook is delving into updatedatabase.pl
01:09 jcamins Odd...
01:10 jcamins Oh well.
01:11 dcook Does it do what it needs to do at least?
01:12 dcook cjh: Are you around?
01:12 cjh dcook: depends, am I in trouble?
01:12 dcook hehe, nope
01:12 jcamins Oh, yeah, I got past that one, and now I'm on bug 8840.
01:12 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8840 normal, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Passed QA , ubuntu-pkg-check.sh fix and extend functionality
01:12 dcook I was just wondering if you could run me through your updatedatabase.pl trick again
01:13 dcook rangi: Looks like pastebot is down?
01:14 rangi hm?
01:14 jcamins Yeah, 502.
01:14 jcamins updatedatabase.pl trick?
01:15 dcook Yeah, I'm always a bit terrified to make DB changes
01:15 cjh just bumping kohaversion.pl by 1 minor version, running web installer, and then bumping it back down.
01:15 cjh (for patches that still have an XXX)
01:15 rangi try that
01:16 dcook huzzah. Cheers, rangi :)
01:16 jcamins Oh.
01:16 jcamins I just run updatedatabase.pl directly.
01:16 dcook jcamins: I think that's what I usually do as well
01:16 dcook But as cjh pointed out, this way you get to see the web installer view
01:17 jcamins Ah.
01:17 cjh jcamins: yeah, I just prefer the web installer view and find it easier than setting up the koha-env :)
01:18 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Merge branch 'bug_8840' into 3.14-master <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=a144adb8d9131f5d52ac7b4318f2b14c04fe2ca4> / Bug 8840 - [SIGNED-OFF] Patch to solve false "All dependencies installed!" <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=18b8f018c7f7fdcbac498ecea95d3da4baa0b8ff> / Bug 8840 - [SIGNED-OFF] ubuntu-pkg-check.sh fix and extend functionality <http://git.koha-com
01:19 jcamins Okay, four sets of packaging patches left.
01:23 jenkins_koha Starting build #28 for job Koha_3.12.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
02:01 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.12.x build #28: SUCCESS in 38 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.12.x/28/
02:01 jenkins_koha * Adrien Saurat: Bug 10100: adds a class to OPAC news dates
02:01 jenkins_koha * Kyle M Hall: Bug 10079 - HomeOrHoldingBranch should not control who can delete when IndependantBranches is enabled
02:01 jenkins_koha * Tomas Cohen Arazi: Bug 8840 - [SIGNED-OFF] ubuntu-pkg-check.sh fix and extend functionality
02:01 jenkins_koha * Mark Tompsett: Bug 8840 - [SIGNED-OFF] Patch to solve false "All dependencies installed!"
02:01 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10100 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, adrien.saurat, Pushed to Master , OPAC News dates need an CSS handle (class)
02:01 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10079 major, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Pushed to Master , HomeOrHoldingBranch should not control who can delete when IndependantBranches is enabled
02:01 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8840 normal, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Pushed to Master , ubuntu-pkg-check.sh fix and extend functionality
02:02 jenkins_koha Starting build #1169 for job Koha_master (previous build: STILL UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #1164 6 days 12 hr ago)
02:03 jcamins By the way, for anyone who was wondering, a Raspberry Pi is not the ideal device for a home security system, as setting up a streaming webcam runs the risk of causing the system to OOM.
02:04 dcook jcamins: Good to know
02:05 dcook I was thinking of using one for security-related things
02:05 dcook i.e. wire it up to some floodlights so that you could turn them on remotely when you're down the street
02:05 dcook Much less demanding than a streaming webcam though..
02:05 jcamins Other people have gotten it working.
02:06 jcamins So I am speculating that Apache (or something) tried to start itself up when I was testing the webcam.
02:07 eythian wahanui: yo mama is so fat, she doesn't support filenames longer than 8.3 characters.
02:07 wahanui OK, eythian.
02:15 dcook jcamins: I'd be interested to know how you go. I haven't picked up a raspi yet, but one of these days..
02:20 jcamins I actually bought it for experimenting with as a home catalog, but I wanted something fun (read: silly) to do today, so I picked it up and started fiddling.
02:23 dcook hehe
02:23 dcook Yeah, I mostly just want one to do silly things with
02:46 * dcook really needs to start baking again
02:46 dcook That way, I can give people cookies to test bug 10096 :p
02:46 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10096 new feature, P5 - low, ---, dcook, Needs Signoff , Add a Z39.50 interface for authority searching
03:13 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1169: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 11 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/1169/
03:13 jenkins_koha * Adrien Saurat: Bug 10100: adds a class to OPAC news dates
03:13 jenkins_koha * Kyle M Hall: Bug 10079 - HomeOrHoldingBranch should not control who can delete when IndependantBranches is enabled
03:13 jenkins_koha * Tomas Cohen Arazi: Bug 8840 - [SIGNED-OFF] ubuntu-pkg-check.sh fix and extend functionality
03:13 jenkins_koha * Mark Tompsett: Bug 8840 - [SIGNED-OFF] Patch to solve false "All dependencies installed!"
03:13 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10100 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, adrien.saurat, Pushed to Master , OPAC News dates need an CSS handle (class)
03:13 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10079 major, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Pushed to Master , HomeOrHoldingBranch should not control who can delete when IndependantBranches is enabled
03:13 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8840 normal, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Pushed to Master , ubuntu-pkg-check.sh fix and extend functionality
04:44 mtj peeps, what is the diff between a notice in koha, and its 'digest' version ?
04:44 dcook The digest version usually just includes a number, I think
04:44 wizzyrea the digest has all the things
04:44 dcook Whereas the regular notice includes all sorts
04:45 wizzyrea for example
04:45 wizzyrea if you have digests on for holds
04:45 wizzyrea hold notifications
04:45 wizzyrea if a borrower has 5 holds in a day come ready
04:45 mtj aah, ok… i should have looked
04:45 wizzyrea they will get one email
04:45 wizzyrea instead of 5
04:45 dcook Hmm, mysql query browser didn't like a million+ records...
04:46 dcook wizzyrea: The digest email won't have any of the detailed information though
04:46 dcook It will just say, you have 5 holds
04:46 dcook It won't say you've got 5 holds which are titled 1, 2, 3, 4, 5,
04:46 dcook (minus that last ,)
04:47 wizzyrea hm are you sure?
04:48 dcook Not 100%
04:48 wizzyrea holds are a bad example because they don't have digest :)
04:48 dcook I've been looking at the advanced notice digest though
04:48 dcook And that seems to be the case
04:49 dcook Unless you've manually changed what goes into the <<items.content>> replacement, I think
04:49 wizzyrea the default one definitely only shows the count
04:49 dcook Mmm, yeah. I'm not sure about holds
04:49 dcook Right
04:49 dcook No digest for that one
04:49 wizzyrea holds don't have a digest :P
04:49 dcook hehe
04:49 wizzyrea check out and check in though are always digest
04:50 wizzyrea digested?
04:50 dcook Now I'm hungry again...
04:50 wizzyrea and at least check-out does show the titles
04:50 dcook Of course, I'm having issues with my dev emails anyways so I can't speak too much to notices atm
04:50 mtj the digest versions seem to often only have a 'count' style template, (but they can show itemised content?)
04:51 wizzyrea I think they can - I could be wrong
04:51 dcook I know that wizzyrea and I have talked about this many times and never really settled on the for sure answer
04:51 wizzyrea have we?
04:51 dcook I always get side-tracked by other things which are a bit more pressing :/
04:51 wizzyrea lol.
04:51 dcook Yup, lol
04:51 dcook At least twice
04:51 dcook Possibly three times
04:51 * wizzyrea is like a goldfish "ooh, a bubbler!"
04:51 wizzyrea <swims round again>
04:52 wizzyrea ooh! a bubbler!
04:52 wizzyrea and so on.
04:53 dcook lol
04:53 dcook I really do need to sit down and look at that one someday
04:53 dcook Or mtj could look and report back the definite answer :)
04:54 mtj im about to test it now
04:54 dcook Yay!
04:54 dcook I've never thought of it until now but I wonder if places would deliver food to the office...
04:54 dcook I had lunch but I want second lunch...
04:54 dcook Or pre-supper
04:55 dcook I suppose Australians do have afternoon tea...
05:39 tweetbot [off] twitter: @IrmaLibraries: "One more library adopting Koha in Australia :-) Kick started migration today #KohaILS"
06:01 mtj yay!! ^^
06:08 dcook I take that as a good sign, mtj?
06:32 dcook That moment when you realize that you weren't passing your url into your function...and that's why it kept returning nothing
06:32 * dcook facepalm
06:46 reiveune hello
06:46 dcook salut reiveune
06:46 reiveune :)
06:47 dcook Good morning so far?
06:53 reiveune yes, but this is only the beginning of the week ;)
06:54 christophe_c hello #koha
06:56 alex_a bonjour
06:56 wahanui bidet, alex_a
06:56 alex_a bidet ??
06:57 * druthb shoots a rubberband at the very rude wahanui-bot.
07:02 dcook reiveune, true enough. True enough.
07:04 gaetan_B hello
07:04 wahanui hey, gaetan_B
08:14 rangi evening
10:09 jenkins_koha Starting build #119 for job Koha_3.10.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
10:14 drojf hi #koha
10:25 rangi hi drojf, get your phone?
10:25 drojf rangi: i did :) you too?
10:25 drojf and hi btw ;)
10:39 rangi yup :)
10:41 * mtj waves to drojf and rangi
10:42 drojf hi mtj
10:42 mtj so, guys… first opinions on the fones?
10:42 drojf rangi: pro-tip: don't trust the alarm clock. i think the snooze button let me sleep 50 minutes instead of 5 this morning
10:43 rangi heh
10:43 mtj i have recently seem this -> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/firefox-os-simulator/
10:43 mtj pretty clever
10:44 drojf rangi: did you get gps to work? it displays an icon but that's it for me
10:44 rangi mtj: thats what we were using at the apps day
10:45 drojf the simulator is pretty good actually
10:45 rangi drojf: nope no gps, but sms and phone call work well
10:45 drojf you got a keon too i suppose?
10:45 rangi yep
10:46 drojf i made it hang a few times, still can't get back from sms by one person to sms of everybody ^^
10:46 mtj rangi, aaaah, ok :) i had no idea its been out that long, even
10:46 drojf apart from that, it has more functionality than every phone i ever had
10:47 rangi :) apart from the gps, everythign else feels like software issues
10:47 rangi which is all good, they are easier to fix :)
10:48 drojf i spent a million hours preparing a ubuntu 64bit building vm for fxos :D
10:48 rangi :)
10:48 drojf and i changed the browser search to duckduckgo. have not dared to upload it to the phone though
10:49 drojf it seems i can build gaia but i get errors if i try to build the whole thing
10:50 drojf i don't think i should change stuff in more than gaia anyway ;)
10:50 mtj interesting -> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox_OS/Building_and_installing_Firefox_OS
10:50 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.10.x build #119: SUCCESS in 41 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.10.x/119/
10:50 jenkins_koha * Chris Cormack: Bug 9591 : Set Library changes after viewing Holds Queue >> reserves item
10:50 jenkins_koha * Owen Leonard: Bug 9679 - can't place hold from cart in CCSR
10:50 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9591 blocker, P3, ---, chris, Pushed to Stable , Set Library changes after viewing Holds Queue >> reserves item
10:50 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9679 major, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Stable , can't place hold from cart in CCSR
10:56 drojf i try to build a value_builder plugin to use when adding an item. it is supposed to check for a value in the record it is going to be added to. can i get the relevant biblionumber from within the plugin somehow? i tried $query->param('biblionumber'); but that gives me "Undefined subroutine &main::plugin called at /home/mirko/koha/cataloguing/plugin_launcher.pl line 38."
10:59 rangi hmm, i havent ever played with them
11:24 mtj i did successfully build a magazine plugin a few years ago
11:25 mtj hmm, i need to look about for that old repo… /
11:42 mtj drojf, aaah - i found that old repo...
11:42 mtj heres a (pretty fugly) example of a working cataloging plugin
11:42 drojf cool :)
11:43 mtj [off] http://git.kohaaloha.com/?p=head-dev/.git;a=commit;h=65436be38c5e2cabc92d568ac21a9843082d186f
11:43 drojf mtj: thanks for looking!
11:44 drojf i am trying to get the biblionumber with javascript and then pass it to the perl function. i think that might work
11:44 mtj its a bit 'mysterious'…someone else wrote most of it
11:44 drojf lol @ mysterious
11:44 mtj i 'modified' it… after them :)
11:45 mtj ive forgotten why i added many 'xxx' values, in the marc records?
11:47 mtj i think they were placeholders, that i later removed when saving?
11:49 drojf ha, works with var biblionumber = document.getElementsByName('biblionumber')[0].value;
11:49 drojf i win javascript \o/
11:52 drojf then i can pass it as a parameter and deal with it as you did too, mtj. seems my problem was just getting it somewhere before passing it over
11:53 mtj aah, ok
11:54 drojf i still think i should be able to get that other than looking it up in the file, but i may be wrong in case of adding an item.
11:54 drojf and it works for now ;)
11:57 mtj lol, its just a great example of bad code!
11:58 mtj i remember bits of it very well
12:00 mtj 3 jscript functions that are stuffed into a perl string called $res, wtf?!
12:05 mtj drojf, actually - i think that example is more hurtful, that helpful
12:06 jcamins mtj: A) isn't it kind of late for you, and B) I think that's just how value builders work.
12:06 mtj yes, and yes
12:07 drojf :D
12:07 drojf hi jcamins
12:09 jcamins Hello.
12:19 oleonard Hi #koha
12:19 jcamins Good morning.
12:40 tcohen morning #koha
12:42 jcamins tcohen: are you close to done with the patch adding error handling to koha-create?
12:42 tcohen yes jcamins
12:42 tcohen i'll be testing it this morning
12:42 jcamins Okay. In that case I'll wait for that one and push the packaging patches all at once.
12:42 jcamins Thanks!
13:19 * drojf curses the unescaped @ that caused half an hour of confusion
13:19 jcamins drojf: I hate that.
13:19 jcamins That's why use strict and use warnings are so important.
13:25 drojf jcamins: i use strict and warnings, but i just refreshed the plugin in the browser and it told me about undefined subroutines :/
13:25 jcamins drojf: perl -c
13:46 oleonard jcamins: I think Bug 10196 does affect 3.12/3.14
13:46 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10196 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Passed QA , items table partially hidden in marc view in ccsr
13:48 jcamins oleonard: really? Could you take a screenshot and circle the problem?
13:48 oleonard Sure
13:49 jcamins Thanks.
13:53 oleonard http://www.screencast.com/t/vdc31u25P
13:53 jcamins Hmm.
13:53 jcamins How did you do that?
13:55 oleonard My browser window is about 1050px wide for that screenshot if that helps
13:55 jcamins Oh, maybe it's an absolute width thing. My item tables aren't that wide.
13:56 oleonard Y U got skimpy items tables jcamins?
14:01 jcamins Okay, reproduced it.
14:02 drojf does a mysql BETWEEN 1 AND 5 include 1 and 5 or is it 2, 3 and 4?
14:04 jcamins drojf: I think it's inclusive.
14:06 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Merge branch 'bug_10196' into 3.14-master <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=9ec7313fe5079890ec1ceb3f394e08dd70ec51e6> / Bug 10196 - items table partially hidden in marc view in ccsr <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=a52bedaeac14c8f82073f60f0d8632d53b7792d1>
14:07 rambutan @later tell wizzyrea http://imageshack.com/photo/my-images/195/geesebabies.jpg/
14:07 huginn rambutan: The operation succeeded.
14:09 jenkins_koha Starting build #29 for job Koha_3.12.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
14:13 senator jcamins: re your comment on friday, i do have a little CentOS experience, a tad rusty. if mtompset reappears and is still busy translating redhat-isms, i'll be happy to offer what help i can
14:18 gmcharlt @quote random
14:18 huginn gmcharlt: Quote #66: "<paul_p> shame on koha, mySQL & user !" (added by jwagner at 03:39 PM, March 04, 2010)
14:35 oleonard Besides Bug 10229, is there a reason why we *should* enforce a no-space rule on authorized value codes?
14:35 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10229 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , branch transfer limits showing one tab at bottom
14:35 jcamins oleonard: you can't search for authorized value codes when there are spaces.
14:36 oleonard jcamins: Meaning you can't limit by collection code in a catalog search?
14:36 oleonard ...or something more general?
14:36 tweetbot [off] twitter: @ByWaterSolution: "Lincoln College of Technology Chooses ByWater Solutions’ Koha Support http://t.co/3Haqz1lvaS #KohaILS"
14:37 jcamins oleonard: collection code, or anything else.
14:37 oleonard So we need to have client-side and server-side validation of authorized value codes and block anything non alphanumeric?
14:37 jcamins That would seem like a good idea to me.
14:39 oleonard So 10229 is "wontfix," but we need a new bug about enforcing valid entries
14:39 jcamins 10229?
14:39 jcamins That's caused by a space?
14:40 oleonard Yes
14:40 jcamins Then, yes, that would be my inclination.
14:41 oleonard At least it's in the manual: "Authorized value is limited to 80 characters and cannot have spaces or special characters other than underscores and hyphens in it"
14:41 jcamins Yeah, underscores and hyphens are fine.
14:48 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.12.x build #29: SUCCESS in 39 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.12.x/29/
14:48 jenkins_koha Owen Leonard: Bug 10196 - items table partially hidden in marc view in ccsr
14:48 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10196 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , items table partially hidden in marc view in ccsr
14:48 jenkins_koha Starting build #1170 for job Koha_master (previous build: STILL UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #1164 7 days 1 hr ago)
15:21 reiveune bye
15:59 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1170: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 11 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/1170/
15:59 jenkins_koha Owen Leonard: Bug 10196 - items table partially hidden in marc view in ccsr
15:59 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10196 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , items table partially hidden in marc view in ccsr
16:23 sophie_m exit
16:24 sophie_m bonsoir
17:31 gaetan_B bye !
18:05 jcamins oleonard: our datepickers with the time are jqueryUI, right?
18:05 oleonard Yes. The time part of it is an additional plugin.
18:05 jcamins Hm.
18:08 jcamins Any idea where we handle the date format?
18:10 jcamins I see date-format.inc, but I don't really know what it does.
18:10 oleonard calendar.inc
18:11 jcamins Ah-ha!
18:11 jcamins Thanks.
18:11 oleonard date-format.inc is used to display a hint about what date format is expected when entering a date
18:12 jcamins No wonder it didn't seem to do anything.
18:28 tweetbot [off] twitter: @normnz: "@maberdour @opensourceway one lesson is don't write an article unless you are aware of the facts. #KohaILS"
18:29 oleonard Ooh, touchy. What's that about?
18:29 jcamins oleonard: the horrible article that they published.
18:29 oleonard A new horrible article, or the one from a few weeks ago?
18:30 jcamins A few weeks ago.
18:30 jcamins I presume.
18:37 tcohen jcamins, koha-remove: if the instance has a custom hostname defined, that does not match the one from mysql/koha-common.cnf
18:38 tcohen should we abort?
18:38 tcohen currently localhost is hardcoded so bad things can happen if someone uses an external DB and has one named the very same in localhost
18:39 jcamins tcohen: maybe not abort, but print out a warning and don't delete the database, perhaps?
18:40 tcohen yes, that's what I thought
18:40 tcohen I'm touching koha-remove to make it work for partial installs (koha-create failures)
18:40 tcohen so we use it as an easy rollback method
18:41 jcamins That's a good idea.
19:00 * oleonard wonders if there is such a thing as an IRC cat bot
19:01 rambutan Hey, I just re-proposed that just last week!
19:01 rambutan Well, it was actually a Koha cat bot
19:02 oleonard A good IRC cat bot would threaten to eat any channel member who was idle too long.
19:04 jcamins khall: didn't you submit a patch with an example SIP client to Koha?
19:04 jcamins Any idea what bug?
19:05 jcamins Bug 9288.
19:05 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9288 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Failed QA , Add a script to test SIP from the command line
19:05 jcamins khall: thanks.
19:05 khall np! I was wondering where that audio alert was coming from ; )
19:06 jcamins My mistake was searching for "sip2" rather than sip.
20:52 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
20:52 mtompset jcamins: Remember when I was describing a mess I had with my git repo, and you were saying the bad news is I likely edit'd the master?
20:53 mtompset I think I just encountered that.
20:53 * cait waves
20:53 mtompset Greetings, cait. :)
20:54 jcamins mtompset: senator confirms that he has some CentOS experience. Unfortunately, I expect he'll be leaving work in about 6 minutes.
20:54 mtompset No biggie. I solved my CentOS problems. :)
20:55 jcamins Hi cait!
20:55 jcamins How was your trip?
20:55 cait long? :)
20:55 senator jcamins: true today, but not always. but glad to hear mtompset installed debian *ducks*
20:55 jcamins Hehe.
20:55 mtompset So, how do I blow away everything in my git repo and make it like I just did the git clone?
20:56 jcamins mtompset: I just clone it over.
20:56 mtompset -- without doing the git clone from scratch.
20:56 jcamins Or delete my local branches.
20:56 jcamins Either works.
20:56 jcamins Deleting the local branches involves less time, if you don't have a pristine git repo somewhere on your LAN.
20:56 mtompset I did delete my local branches, but it left remnants behind like the new file I created.
20:57 jcamins git clean
20:58 jcamins Warning: THIS WILL DELETE THINGS IN AN IRRECOVERABLE WAY
20:58 mtompset That's fine.
20:58 mtompset I have a patch file which I can at least read to redo everything.
20:58 jcamins I have a screenshot of my web browser.
20:58 jcamins I keep on clicking on it and trying to copy text.
20:59 mtompset Been there, done that.
20:59 mtompset -- senator: This was for a different project. It was apache2 configuration issues, not a Koha problem exactly.
21:00 senator ah
21:01 bag logs?
21:01 wahanui hmmm... logs is http://irc.koha-community.org/irclog/koha/
21:01 bag oh rangi++
21:03 mtompset *sigh* Okay... redoing a git install again.
21:10 bag hey mtompset do you have any SAML work that you've been working available any where to look at?
21:10 mtompset Nope. It isn't to the alpha stage yet.
21:10 mtompset As soon as I get it to the alpha stage, I'll let you know. :)
21:11 bag awesome - well we may be working on it too
21:11 bag so if we have some alpha we'll share with you
21:11 mtompset However, it is based on biblibre's shibboleth patch.
21:12 mtompset Let me grab the URL...
21:12 mtompset http://git.biblibre.com/?p=koha;a=commit;h=b5257f7235a7cbad396d1a4036101ba6a0903ecb
21:12 bag cool yeah that's what I was looking at too
21:13 bag also mod_mellon
21:13 mtompset I have something which is integrated with master... However, since I don't have shibboleth installed, I can't get it to work for me.
21:13 mtompset I also tweaked it, since the redirect assumes the same server.
21:14 rangi wahanui: forget logs
21:14 wahanui rangi: I forgot logs
21:14 bag logs?
21:14 bag heh
21:14 rangi logs is http://irc.koha-community.org/koha/
21:14 rangi logs?
21:14 wahanui logs is, like, http://irc.koha-community.org/koha/
21:14 rangi there we go
21:14 mtompset valley girl speak?!
21:15 bag NateC?
21:15 wahanui I LIKE SPACE AND MY WIFE
21:15 rangi (it will redirect but that is the new url(
21:15 NateC Space is the Place :)
21:17 * mtompset hums, "It rolls down stairs. Alone or in pairs! Rolls over the neighbour's dog. It's great for a snack and fits on your back. It's log, log log!"
21:17 jcamins bag: mod_mellon might not be such a good choice, since that locks Koha into Apache.
21:18 bag right but you can run both apache and whatever
21:18 mtompset eeew!
21:19 jcamins Not for auth.
21:19 jcamins Because every single request has to be authenticated.
21:20 bag well jcamins I don't think SAML is for everyone - and if someone really wants it - that could be fix for them alone
21:20 bag not for everyone :D
21:20 jcamins True.
21:20 bag which is the line that I was walking
21:20 mtompset But a solution that can be turned on or off with a couple of sysprefs works across the board.
21:20 jcamins Good thing I'm not going to be the RM when that code comes out, eh?
21:21 bag a solution that can be turned on and off - is much better
21:21 rangi mod_mellon is fine, it can use the same system as the pki
21:21 rangi so can be turned on and off
21:22 rangi its sure as hell beats writing a SAML implementation in perl
21:22 bag and if it you love it and want to be on apache - there you go - no problem to you jcamins :)
21:22 bag :D
21:22 jcamins Well, I won't be RM, so I don't give a damn either way.
21:23 mtompset okay...
21:23 mtompset Let's start from scratch... I've just done the git clone.
21:23 mtompset I cd'd into the directory.
21:24 mtompset what next steps would be recommended to take?
21:24 bag wait jcamins we can't get in any more code? Did I miss the message?
21:24 bag heh :P
21:24 rangi mtompset: what are you trying to do?
21:25 jcamins You have one week to get well-tested bugfixes into 3.12.
21:25 mtompset I'm trying take a patch file I have, apply it, and have it not affect my initial branch.
21:26 mtompset How did the GBSD go on Friday?
21:26 jcamins mtompset: two bugs were reported, and that was it.
21:27 * cait just finished reading the logs an dnoticed noone missed her
21:27 cait guess i can go to sleep then :)
21:27 cait night all
21:27 wahanui goodnight cait. You'll be back.
21:29 jcamins bag: rangi has clarified that mod_mellon is *not* what CAS is using, so never mind my objections.
21:29 jcamins (not that it mattered anyway, as you wouldn't be submitting code by last February)
21:31 mtompset would you git install from the initial git clone directory or from a newly created branch?
21:32 jcamins mtompset: what difference does it make?
21:32 mtompset Is one easier to reset to a pristine git clone state?
21:32 jcamins No.
21:33 jcamins When you're running an install, it has nothing to do with what's in the git repository.
21:33 jcamins I mean, those are the files that are installed, but it is unrelated to branches.
21:33 mtompset True, the install doesn't know about the branches.
21:42 mtompset okay... rebuilt from scratch. all is clean. all is functional.
21:43 mtompset Now to manually redo these changes, because I don't want to accidentally modify the master.
21:45 rambutan @seen wizzyrea
21:45 huginn rambutan: wizzyrea was last seen in #koha 16 hours, 53 minutes, and 37 seconds ago: <wizzyrea> and so on.
21:46 wizzyrea sup
21:46 rambutan see our goosies?
21:46 wizzyrea d'awwwwwwwwwww
21:46 wizzyrea those are some adorable goslings.
21:47 rambutan they were here Sunday, took off walking, and now not to be found. No idea where they went.
21:47 wizzyrea away to do goosy things
21:48 rambutan yea, well, I hope not across the 4 lane highway, and every kid in the housing project would be out to catch them if they went that way.
21:59 eythian hi
22:00 mtompset Greetings, eythian. :)
22:33 rangi http://i.imgur.com/QuHaVhc.gif
22:37 tweetbot [off] twitter: @opensourceway: "Are you looking for open source library tools? Start with @KohaILS | http://t.co/thGv3INTmD #openlibraries"
22:39 mtompset what is the git command to list the files which are currently "add"ed to the commit list?
22:39 wizzyrea git status
22:39 wahanui git status is a-ok
22:40 wizzyrea i think is what you're asking for
22:40 mtompset Yes it was.
22:40 mtompset wizzyrea++ # thanks!
23:04 talljoy rangi that's a great video
23:05 jcamins rangi: wow, that's awesome.
23:05 jcamins Now I want an iguana to introduce to Myshkin.
23:05 talljoy hey jcamins, it's my lucky day! you were release manager for 3.10.05? yes?
23:05 rangi hehe
23:05 rangi nope thats me
23:05 jcamins talljoy: no, rangi.
23:06 talljoy that was you rangi, even better. :-)
23:06 cjh hehe
23:06 rangi https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-aLyqyd2CiQ
23:06 rangi yeah, nah
23:06 wizzyrea ^ so funny
23:06 jcamins I was RMaint for 3.6.5-3.6.10 and RM for 3.12.0.
23:07 jcamins Or maybe to 3.6.9. I don't exactly remember.
23:07 talljoy i've noticed that when circulating an unknown items the fast add cataloging option doesn't give the user the option to select the framework, they are stuck on the 'fast add framework'. i can't see anything in the release notes that would be related to a change in this behavior. (3.10.03 does give the option to select a framework)
23:08 rangi there were definite changes to the fast add functionality
23:08 talljoy ah. see here jcamins this is where i found your name as release manager http://koha-community.org/koha-3-10-5-released/
23:08 rangi he's release manager
23:08 rangi they only do .0 releases
23:08 rangi release maintainers do .everything else
23:08 wizzyrea maintainer I think
23:08 jcamins I suppose, yes, I was release manager for 3.10.5, but that won't help because you're interested in a stable release.
23:08 jcamins :)
23:09 talljoy gotcha! jcamins you're off the hook then. :-)
23:09 * talljoy sets her sights on rangi
23:09 talljoy what were some of the changes to fast add functionality?
23:09 rangi 7523
23:09 rangi in 3.10.4
23:09 jcamins talljoy: if you change the framework when doing fast add, you break the fast add.
23:09 rangi exactly
23:10 jcamins It because a regular add.
23:10 rangi and you cant check out
23:10 wizzyrea ^^ makes perfect sense
23:10 rangi bug 7523
23:10 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7523 normal, P3, ---, katrin.fischer, CLOSED FIXED, Templates should respect serials routing permission
23:10 rangi hmm nope
23:10 rangi bug 7253
23:10 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7253 major, P5 - low, ---, fridolyn.somers, Pushed to Stable , fast cataloging not always checking out
23:10 rangi that one
23:10 wahanui somebody said that one was down more often than up
23:10 rangi reported by nengard
23:11 talljoy and she is now complaining?
23:11 talljoy lol
23:11 talljoy j/k she's not. but this was given to me by her. :-D
23:11 * wizzyrea suspects who reported that.
23:11 rangi right, well its by design, changing framework is a bug
23:11 rangi its now been fixed
23:11 wizzyrea @quote get 123
23:12 wahanui http://xkcd.com/1172/
23:12 huginn wizzyrea: Quote #123: "rangi: #thingsihavelearnt if there is a mad scheme a library somewhere will be doing it ... except madder" (added by wizzyrea at 09:20 PM, March 30, 2011)
23:12 rangi if you want to do a real cataloguing .. go do that :-)
23:12 wizzyrea see the comic.
23:12 talljoy okay, so a library who liked this option will need to have the "true fast add" framework be the one they use for checkout. (very reduced)
23:12 jcamins talljoy: what?
23:12 wizzyrea they can import their fast add over the existing fast add.
23:12 wizzyrea if that's what they want.
23:12 rangi what she said
23:12 talljoy right, that's what i need to do
23:13 jcamins Okay, that's what I understood too.
23:13 talljoy they have multiple fast add frameworks
23:13 eythian fast add, faster add, fastest add.
23:13 talljoy bizactly
23:13 wizzyrea JUST ADD THE DAMN THING framework
23:13 talljoy LOL
23:13 talljoy thanks for the clarification y'all
23:13 wizzyrea "added yesterday" framework
23:13 wizzyrea they can call it the TARDIS framework
23:13 jcamins eythian: don't forget "fasting add," which is appropriate when your circ staff is on hunger strike.
23:14 eythian heh
23:14 talljoy and btw, someone asked me for RDA framework additions, are they in channel now?
23:14 talljoy i think it was maximep
23:14 jcamins It was maximep, but it doesn't look like he's around.
23:14 rangi @seen maximep
23:14 huginn rangi: maximep was last seen in #koha 3 days, 3 hours, 10 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <maximep> been that way for years
23:15 talljoy @later tell maximep Did you still need the RDA framework scripts? ping me and i'll send you the latest and greatest for bib and auth frameworks
23:15 huginn talljoy: The operation succeeded.
23:15 jcamins talljoy: you can attach them to the wiki.
23:15 rangi talljoy: can you put them on the wiki, where the current rda one is?
23:15 jcamins marc frameworks?
23:15 wahanui marc frameworks are specific to Koha.
23:15 talljoy yes, i can. i warn you they are hideous scripts, but they get the job done
23:15 rangi http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/MARC_frameworks
23:15 jcamins wahanui: marc frameworks is also http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/MARC_frameworks
23:15 wahanui OK, jcamins.
23:15 jcamins marc frameworks?
23:15 wahanui marc frameworks is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/MARC_frameworks
23:16 talljoy MARC is dead and yet we keep it on RDA life support. sigh....
23:16 talljoy long live FRBR
23:17 rangi we should use more MARC
23:17 wahanui http://02varvara.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/01-how-about-no-bear.jpg?w=800
23:18 rangi actually MARC killed Koha's initial FRBR implementation
23:18 wizzyrea we could almost add "we should use more MARC" to "be rangi"
23:18 jcamins Except Koha's initial FRBR implementation was sane.
23:18 wizzyrea ^^^
23:19 rangi 3rd normal form :)
23:19 wizzyrea @quote add <jcamins> ..."Koha's initial FRBR implementation was sane."
23:19 huginn wizzyrea: The operation succeeded. Quote #248 added.
23:19 talljoy FRBR++
23:19 wizzyrea all_good_ideas_that_were_old_but_now_new_again++
23:19 drojf when will we have koha for firefox os? i really feel the need for a library server on my phone
23:19 ibeardslee not more cowbell?
23:20 jcamins It did not make imaginary distinctions between expression and manifestation while going all Anxiety of Influence on bibliographic terminology.
23:20 rangi christopher walken already has that covered ibeardslee
23:20 rangi drojf: hmm, talk to jcamins ... its closer than you imagine ;)
23:21 jcamins rangi: not the server.
23:21 rangi true
23:21 jcamins I'm just working on implementing the functionality client-side.
23:21 rangi that would be a bit mental really
23:21 jcamins like...
23:21 jcamins we should use more marc?
23:21 wahanui http://02varvara.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/01-how-about-no-bear.jpg?w=800
23:21 rangi :)
23:21 jcamins Or less mental than that? ;)
23:21 wizzyrea http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM1fkHQP_Pw
23:21 wizzyrea sorry you said christopher walken.
23:22 drojf i bet there are great jquery marc modules out there :D
23:22 rangi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o0Vv8lr41w
23:22 * wizzyrea prefers dancing walken
23:22 jcamins wizzyrea: actually, I've seen this.
23:23 wizzyrea walken reading goodnight moon is pretty funny toom
23:23 wizzyrea too*
23:23 wizzyrea https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpZazF6bL7w
23:24 jcamins Hey, I need a bug number.
23:26 eythian bug 4
23:26 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4 normal, P2, ---, gmcharlt, CLOSED FIXED, installer.pl doesn't create parent directories
23:26 jcamins Bug 10240
23:26 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10240 new feature, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, NEW , Offline circulation using HTML5 and IndexedDB
23:26 wizzyrea bug 5874
23:26 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5874 enhancement, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, paul.poulain, CLOSED DUPLICATE, Overdue report : Limit by date & add a new permission to restrict who can run the report
23:27 jcamins wahanui: rand() * 10000
23:27 wahanui jcamins: what?
23:27 jcamins wahanui: random number?
23:27 wahanui wish i knew, jcamins
23:27 jcamins Oh well.
23:27 wizzyrea huginn might do that
23:27 huginn wizzyrea: I suck
23:27 drojf jcamins: nice
23:27 jcamins @dice 1d10239
23:27 huginn jcamins: Error: Dice can't have more than 100 sides.
23:27 jcamins huginn: says you!
23:27 huginn jcamins: downloading the Perl source
23:27 jcamins It's a fractal die.
23:40 jcamins Does anyone have any idea what issues.return is?
23:41 tweetbot [off] twitter: @kohails: "#KohaILS Lincoln College of Technology Chooses ByWater Solutions’ Koha Support http://t.co/3CPiOWUBYT"
23:41 jcamins And issues.issuingbranch.
23:42 rangi i can find out
23:43 jcamins Thanks.
23:43 jcamins I suspect they're obsolete.
23:43 rangi i can confirm that branchcode is where the item was returned
23:44 rangi back in 2000
23:44 rangi issuingbranch was where it was issued
23:44 jcamins Ahh, but at some point they got swapped?
23:45 rangi branchcode is now where it was issued
23:45 rangi i dont think we record where it was returned
23:45 * rangi looks
23:47 rangi nope we dont
23:47 rangi well we do in statistics
23:47 rangi but not in the issues or old_issues table
23:48 rangi so yes, issuingbranch is not used anymore (from a quick grep)
23:48 jcamins Thanks. That's what it looked like to me too.
23:48 jcamins Any idea about issues.return?
23:49 rangi that used to be a boolean
23:49 rangi back when we didnt have old_issues
23:50 rangi afaict
23:50 jcamins Ah.
23:50 jcamins Thanks.
23:50 jcamins That makes sense.
23:50 rangi i must say
23:50 rangi i like this
23:50 rangi http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=oldkoha_1_0_7.git;a=tree;f=C4/Circulation;h=0e8b899d0775213bd7a451d6f8c7926375c9ae3d;hb=af4638781075ffc99a6e92fe4a578a61654c19db
23:51 rangi better than our 12k line Circulation.pm
23:51 rangi sory 120k
23:52 rangi the code was crap
23:52 rangi but at least i could find stuff ;)
23:52 jcamins But at least it was neat crap.
23:52 dcook Certainly something to be said for neatness
23:52 dcook I sometimes wonder what lurks in the bowels of Koha
23:53 jcamins dcook: despair. We must never speak of it.
23:53 jcamins wtf?
23:53 dcook One of those things where it grows more powerful the more you say it's name? ;)
23:54 jcamins Bug 10241
23:54 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10241 normal, P4, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Easy analyticals creates two 773 fields. Search/link from host to children is broken
23:54 jcamins You know what? I'm going to ignore it because I haven't the energy to explain that those are two entirely separate features that do not work together.
23:55 rangi yeah
23:55 rangi easy analytics is fine if you never ever want to export your records
23:55 rangi i recommend people dont use it
23:56 jcamins Well, it also works fine if all you care about is the 773$a/$t/etc.
23:57 rangi true
23:57 jcamins Where it does not work is if you are looking to create links that are not Koha-internal.
23:58 rangi yep
23:58 jcamins Or, of course, if you're using control number links.
23:58 jcamins But I feel like that should have gone without saying.
23:59 rangi apparently not