Time Nick Message
01:02 jenkins_koha Yippie, build fixed!
01:02 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1148: FIXED in 1 hr 10 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/1148/
01:33 tweetbot [off] twitter: @kohails: "#kohails Koha Community Newsletter: April 2013 http://t.co/jTuUVvKw3E"
01:43 alohabot Hi mib_kmg6jq, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
01:43 mib_kmg6jq Hello! Quick question - is the patron-facing web interface (the one without -staff) able to show all books in inventory for patrons to browse through?
01:44 mib_kmg6jq Sort of like a paginated list of all records
01:44 jcamins Not really, no.
01:45 jcamins The best you could do is a search that returns all records.
01:45 jcamins (for example: pqf=@attr 1=_ALLRECORDS @attr 2=103 "")
01:45 mib_kmg6jq that'll work!
01:45 mib_kmg6jq Thanks for the help jcamins
01:46 jcamins You're welcome.
01:46 mib_kmg6jq Have a good rest of your night all
05:20 * cait waves
05:24 cait noone here? :)
05:28 cjh nope, holiday over here :)
05:33 cait hey cjh :)
05:33 cait so why are you here? :)
05:34 cjh holiday for me means homework time :(
05:34 cait ah
05:34 cait I know how that feels - distance study
05:34 cait so when i am not working.. I should be doing math right now
05:34 cjh I finish in June/July though, so home stretch.
05:35 cait yay! :)
05:35 cjh I was going to ask what you were studying, I guess it's math :p
05:35 cait I am not that crazy :)
05:36 cjh heh
05:36 cait they call it 'web and multimedia computer science' or something less badly translated
06:00 drojf good morning #koha
06:05 cait morning drojf :)
06:06 drojf hi cait :)
06:06 wahanui hi cait :) are you around ?
06:07 cait yes wahanui
06:07 cait yes wahanui is yay!
06:07 cait yes wahanui
06:07 cait ooh
06:11 jenkins_koha Starting build #104 for job Koha_3.10.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
06:12 drojf "all and sundry are welcome to take, use, and contribute to the LibLime Koha code base". hrm. no, thanks.
06:13 cait where did you pick that up?
06:13 rangi [off] i think my main contention has been addressed by rambutan, the idea that there needs to be some reconciliation is a flawed idea
06:13 * cait volunteers tcohen to fix git bz because it just doesn't work with his library name in the patches
06:13 cait but seriously
06:13 drojf [off] yes, i like the comment
06:13 cait it would make this QAM really really happy if someone fixed it
06:14 cait [off] I have missed out on that it seems - someone got a link?
06:14 drojf [off] http://opensource.com/education/13/4/open-source-project-lessons-koha
06:15 drojf should probably go into the log too :) http://opensource.com/education/13/4/open-source-project-lessons-koha
06:15 rangi linked from the newsletter cait
06:17 drojf [off] i mean, apart from the copyright stuff… i couldn't care less about what they do and i don't see why people would "want them back". or have compromises about what to take from what version. or spend any time into merging it. if they really wanted to return to the community, there is a nice koha they can work on
06:17 rangi [off] s/copyright/trademark/ and I agree
06:18 drojf [off] trademark, right
06:21 rangi [off] yeah this history bit is mosly right .. well mostly, and the conclusion to trust corporates less i agree with, but the insinuation that koha hasnt been good about attracting companies, or that the community should have bowed to any ptfs demands, or should have to compromise in any way at all is flawed
06:21 rangi [off] i see this is as an open source vs free software thing
06:23 rangi [off] this bit, i totally disagree with "Never turn down an opportunity to discuss an issue and seek a resolution. If two parties can't agree on terms by themselves, it may help to seek mediation from a third party who can broker a compromise."
06:23 rangi [off] to that i respond with "Don't feed the trolls"
06:24 gmcharlt [off] mediation assumes some level of good faith
06:24 rangi [off] exactly, sometimes turning down is the best course, stating never is just plain wrong
06:30 * magnuse waves
06:31 rangi heya magnuse
06:31 wahanui magnuse is afraid that we added another 10000 bugs while he was eating pizza.
06:31 rangi nope i was too busy eating pizza
06:31 cait hi magnuse
06:32 drojf hei magnuse
06:32 magnuse hiya rangi cait drojf
06:32 magnuse oy, save some pizza for me!
06:32 mtj some of the history in that article is very 'wishful', on ptfs/liblimes part
06:32 magnuse nah, tomorrow is pizzaday
06:33 rangi i think the author only talked to 2 people, so its a pretty shallow article
06:34 rangi mtj: thinking about it more, switching the xslt to be on by default (in new installs if it isnt already) would be a good patch i reckon
06:34 cait 18 bugs now waiting for qa
06:34 cait morning paul_p
06:34 rangi hi paul_p
06:34 paul_p hi cait & rangi
06:34 mtj rangi, i had thought that too
06:35 magnuse mtj, rangi: bug 9867
06:35 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9867 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, magnus, Needs Signoff , Make XSLT view the default for Norwegian installations
06:36 magnuse bonjour paul_p
06:36 rangi cool
06:36 cait drojf: did you send a patch for the pref thing?
06:37 mtj magnuse, cool - we can change that patch to include all installs, i think
06:38 magnuse mtj: sure!
06:38 drojf cait: bug 10103
06:38 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10103 normal, P5 - low, ---, mirko, Needs Signoff , UniqueItemFields is missing from sysprefs.sql
06:39 christophe_c hello #koah
06:39 magnuse mtj: it's just a small update to installer/data/mysql/sysprefs.sql
06:41 cait hi christophe_c :)
06:41 rangi hi christophe_c
06:41 cait both of those are pretty easy to sign off :)
06:41 cait mtj: I think maybe better have a new bug
06:42 cait or change the title of the bug report
06:42 wahanui cait: that doesn't look right
06:42 cait yes wahanui
06:45 alex_a bonjour
06:45 wahanui niihau, alex_a
06:46 christophe_c hi cait rangi ;-)
06:47 reiveune hello
06:48 cait oooh
06:48 cait that was not good
06:48 cait I have returned a huge amount of books that were overdue (not lost)
06:49 cait and suddenly I have a lot of credit on that account?
06:49 * cait is a bit scared now
06:50 magnuse cait: don't look a gift horse in the mouth ;-)
06:50 cait i will have to repeat that steps somehow.
06:50 drojf lol magnuse
06:52 cait interesting
06:52 wahanui interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
06:52 drojf it wouldn't be nice to have libraries go broke because they pay their patrons ;)
06:52 magnuse hehe
06:53 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.10.x build #104: SUCCESS in 41 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.10.x/104/
06:53 jenkins_koha * Owen Leonard: Bug 9981: Handle sort1 field when duplicating patron
06:53 jenkins_koha * Tomas Cohen Arazi: Bug 9812 - Forbid access to several files through the browser
06:53 jenkins_koha * Corey Fuimaono: bug 9397 - Error Messages hard to find for Visually Impaired Users (Accessibility) [Returning Items] {REVISION 1.1}
06:53 jenkins_koha * Kyle M Hall: Bug 8770 - amount does not equal amountoutstanding on a fine with no payments or credits
06:53 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9981 trivial, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Stable , Sort1 not automatically cleared when duplicating a patron
06:53 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9812 minor, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Pushed to Stable , Several files shouldn't be exposed or browseable through a URL
06:53 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9397 trivial, P5 - low, ---, agent.075, Pushed to Stable , Error Messages hard to find for Visually Impaired Users (Accessibility) [Returning Items]
06:53 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8770 blocker, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Pushed to Stable , amount does not equal amountoutstanding on a fine with no payments or credits
06:53 jenkins_koha Starting build #305 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
06:53 magnuse success! \o/
06:53 cait ugh
06:53 cait i can repeat that
06:53 cait something is seriously wrong
06:54 cait oh it's the patch
06:54 magnuse gah!
06:54 cait bug 10030
06:54 wahanui bug 10030 is giving me trouble too
06:54 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10030 major, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Signed Off , MaxFines checks against amount, not amount outstanding
06:57 rangi hmmm
06:57 cait yeah exactly
06:57 cait weridness. I have to go :)
06:57 cait bye all :)
06:57 rangi you sure its teh patch?
06:57 rangi its a one line change
06:57 cait i couldn't replicate on master
06:57 cait but it would be good if someone else confrmed
06:58 rangi that doesnt do anything to do with returns
06:58 cait I really have to run to work now
06:58 cait yeah, but it only happens to me when the patch is applied right now :(
06:58 cait and seems ok on master
06:58 cait oh
06:58 cait now it didn't happen
06:59 cait i have to go - if someone could run some tests that would be good
06:59 rangi i dont think it could be the patch
06:59 rangi it has nothign to do with credits
06:59 cait i agree
06:59 cait i wondered that myself, but it's happened 3 times for me now and it's definitely not right
06:59 rangi yeah
06:59 rangi just have to track down whats causing it
07:01 rangi my $fix = _FixOverduesOnReturn($borrowernumber, $item->{itemnumber}, $exemptfine, $dropbox);
07:01 rangi i bet its to do with that
07:04 rangi @later tell kf check your fines log (turn it on if you need to) then look for any lines in it, they might help you spot where its coming from
07:04 huginn rangi: The operation succeeded.
07:04 rangi @later tell kf also check accountlines for a CR line
07:04 huginn rangi: The operation succeeded.
07:24 huginn GERMS!!!!
07:24 wahanui germs is http://i.imgur.com/5UfhT.jpg
07:24 kf morning huginn and wahanui
07:28 magnuse welcome back kf
07:30 kf thx
07:30 kf it bothers me I couldn't hunt down that fine problem
07:31 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.8.x build #305: SUCCESS in 38 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/305/
07:31 jenkins_koha Tomas Cohen Arazi: Bug 9812 - Forbid access to several files through the browser
07:31 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9812 minor, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Pushed to Stable , Several files shouldn't be exposed or browseable through a URL
07:38 magnuse kf: you saw the hints from rangi?
07:46 magnuse @wunder boo
07:46 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 4.0°C (9:20 AM CEST on April 25, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 81%. Dew Point: 1.0°C. Windchill: -1.0°C. Pressure: 29.65 in 1004 hPa (Steady).
07:46 magnuse s/Mostly Cloudy/Snowing/
07:46 rangi @wunder nzwn
07:46 huginn rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 15.0°C (7:00 PM NZST on April 25, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 29.65 in 1004 hPa (Steady).
07:48 magnuse rangi: that still sounds nice
07:49 rangi its not bad for april
07:52 magnuse yay
07:53 kf magnuse: I saw - but not at the right computer now :(
07:53 kf magnuse: i think it might have something to do with that account being my main test account, so there is some old data that might play into it
07:53 kf it's scary, I really want to nail that bug down tonight
07:55 magnuse just do it! :-)
08:02 kf hope I can :)
08:07 magnuse you can do it!
08:07 kf bonjour clrh_ :)
08:08 clrh_ hello kf :)
08:08 clrh_ .nick clrh
08:08 clrh_ oups
08:10 magnuse bonjour clrh_
08:11 clrh_ :)
09:33 magnuse kia ora ConnorDewar
09:36 ConnorDewar hello magnuse
09:39 ConnorDewar do you happen to know python magnuse ? i have a bug in my program and have no clue why its happening
09:42 magnuse ConnorDewar: nah, not really, i'm afraid
09:43 ConnorDewar no worries ill just keep hacking at my code untill i get it :)
09:43 magnuse ConnorDewar: great way to learn :-)
09:48 ConnorDewar not good for the temper though
09:52 marcelr hi #koha
09:54 marcelr @later tell rangi Sometimes banned when using mibbit for irc
09:54 huginn marcelr: The operation succeeded.
09:55 rangi marcelr: nothing we can do about that
09:56 marcelr hi rangi: ok well second try mostly works :)
09:56 rangi it will depend on how many ppl are connected
09:56 marcelr but it is a new phenomenon
09:56 marcelr never had just for a few weeks now
09:56 rangi oftc (and any irc network) has a limit on the number of connections from the same ip number
09:56 rangi probably more ppl using mibbit to connect to irc
09:57 rangi (not just in #koha its for the whole network)
09:57 marcelr could be; but there was some testing with banning..
09:57 rangi id recommend getting a real irc client ;-)
09:57 marcelr :)
09:57 rangi no, that was only for the channel
09:57 rangi we cant stop ppl joining the network
09:57 marcelr ok
10:00 mtj marcelr, think of your problem as an opportunity :p
10:01 marcelr :)
10:01 marcelr so much opportunities in bugzilla too
10:02 huginn Oh no, not this fool again
10:07 drojf not a fan of mibbit, but running a webfrontend for irc on our own servers would probably solve the problem for #koha (not volunteering to do that, get real clients everyone)
10:07 rangi we used to have that
10:07 rangi it was just as bad, and would suffer the same problem, multiple connections from the same ip
10:07 rangi it looks a lot like a ddos
10:08 rangi well a dos anyway :)
10:08 drojf oh, ok. i thought the limit would probably not matter for the few mibbitses we have here at the same time
10:08 rangi its for the network
10:08 rangi not the channel
10:09 rangi http://www.oftc.net/oftc/WebChat
10:10 rangi oftc have their own one now
10:10 drojf of course it's per network, but i mean having it coming with "our" server's ip and only have koha folk use it
10:11 rangi wasnt last time, we used to run into quite often i had to keep upping the maxconns
10:11 drojf strange
10:12 rangi you only need about 4 from the same ip, mibbit has about 15 ips it uses
10:12 rangi (same ip, same identd)
10:12 drojf well, getting an irc client is a good test to see if you should ask your question here or in the google group anyway :D
10:12 rangi almost no one runs an identd daemon anymore
10:12 rangi :)
10:14 rangi marcelr: 22:10 -!- Irssi: No bans in channel #koha
10:14 rangi (i checked just in case)
10:14 marcelr ok thx
10:15 rangi drojf: there you go, mail on the mailing list, that totally should be in google groups
10:16 * kf waves
10:16 rangi whats a polite way to say "I really think you shouldn't be administering a complex system like Koha"
10:16 rangi you use way to many z
10:16 magnuse oh noes
10:20 rangi https://infomalias.wordpress.com/2013/04/25/mla-koha-training-2013/
10:22 drojf lol rangi
10:22 tweetbot [off] twitter: @ranginui: "#kohails training in the maldives https://t.co/nledfSJxLS"
10:23 drojf magnuse: did you mean "oh noezzzz"?
10:23 magnuse drojf: of, course, sorry for the omission
10:24 * magnuse needs some lunchzzzz
10:24 drojf no pizzzzzza until tomorrowzzzz!
10:25 * kf lolz
10:25 magnuse i knowzzzz
10:25 * drojf goezzz back to workzzz
10:47 tcohen Zzzzzzz
10:47 marcelr hi tcohen
10:48 marcelr tcohen: i write a draft for utf8 handling in koha on the wiki
10:49 tcohen You rockzz marcelr
10:50 marcelr heh zzzz
10:50 marcelr your help will be appreciated
10:52 tcohen Once i get out of bedzz and actually be conciuozz marcelr heh
10:52 marcelr :)
10:52 marcelr still a bit early there..
10:53 tcohen Lookzz like i left the irc clientz on, the ledzz woke me up
10:55 kf lol
10:55 kf kinda funny zzzzzzzzzz
10:55 marcelr he kfzzz
10:55 kf hi marcelr and tcohen :)
10:58 tcohen kf: http://git.661346.n2.nabble.com/Content-Type-handling-td7567230.html
10:59 marcelr tcohen: this seems to be related to the version of git you use
10:59 marcelr i still have this error too with Córdoba :)
10:59 kf tcohen: thx - but that was not the problem :) when I do git bz attach I get an error complaining about non ascii things :(
11:00 tcohen I'll check it at work, maybe giving raring a try was not good after all
11:01 kf raring?
11:01 marcelr raar
11:01 kf tcohen: it's not only your patches, I get the same when I type something in german
11:01 kf I think it's git bz
11:01 marcelr it is git?
11:01 kf hm no I think it's especially git bz
11:01 kf it's a python error
11:01 marcelr ok
11:02 jcamins plzzzzzzzz fix git-bzzzzzzzzzzz errorrrrrrrrrrrrrr
11:02 kf git bz attach is broken for any commit message with a non ascii character
11:02 kf errorrrrzzzzz
11:02 * jcamins is zzzzzzzzzzzleeepy
11:02 kf go back to bed ;)
11:02 tcohen Maybe we should wrap python-cgi-lwp to better handle utf8
11:03 tcohen :]
11:03 slef kf: maybe some .str being used instead of of .unicode or something
11:03 jcamins tcohen: we should call the wrapper pythonzzzzzzz
11:03 slef kf: I assume your locale is utf-8?
11:04 kf slef: yes
11:05 kf slef: so if you tried a patch from tcohen - that works for you?
11:05 kf if it's only me... that's also useful information
11:05 jcamins I'm pretty sure I've successfully attached patches with UTF-8 in the commit message.
11:06 slef kf: not recently. I was going to check the git-bz source
11:06 slef kf: see if I can spot anything as I've been doing more python than perl recently
11:07 slef kf: do you have a backtrace you can http://paste.koha-community.org ?
11:07 kf slef: sorry, not on this computer
11:08 kf it's quite wordy
11:08 kf and n the end says something about ascii
11:08 magnuse i did a commit message recently where i copied the breadcrumbs, like Home > Something, and the character that looks kind of like > got mangled
11:08 magnuse no errorzzz though
11:08 kf magnuse: which editor do you use?
11:08 marcelr good to hearzzz
11:09 slef line 1210 looks suspicious to me, calling ascii_uppercase
11:09 magnuse kf: vim, mostly
11:09 magnuse for comit messages
11:09 kf magnuse: hm for git bz I have that other one opening up...
11:09 slef but that's only a filename, shouldn't be trouble
11:09 magnuse nano?
11:09 kf i could try switching that to vim
11:09 kf probably
11:09 magnuse yeah, i get that sometimes too
11:09 slef export EDITOR=vim
11:09 marcelr jcamins: already awakezz
11:09 slef or whatever
11:09 magnuse some env variable i should have set
11:10 magnuse slef: that's probably it, yeah
11:10 slef or mess with update-alternatives if you want it system-wide
11:10 kf slef: maybe you could try that: git bz apply 10107, git bz attach -e 10107 HEAD
11:10 slef kf: trying
11:10 slef kf: at what point goes it BOOM?
11:10 kf it fails instantly on git bz attach
11:10 marcelr kf: is the problem utf8 in commit message only?
11:10 kf ah sorry no
11:11 kf it fails after saving that
11:11 kf only commit messages, patches seem fine
11:11 kf slef: I can edit the patch, but without -e it fails too
11:11 slef kf: does it work without a patch attached?
11:12 kf hm
11:12 kf interesting question
11:13 kf I normally obsolete in the -e step
11:13 kf QA problems :)
11:13 slef kf: worksforme
11:13 kf meh.
11:14 kf maybe I can show you the error sometime?
11:14 slef kf: please do.
11:14 kf slef: thx for taking a look :)
11:14 kf slef++
11:14 * slef clocks out and returns to other python code
11:14 slef kf, magnuse: S said thank you by the way :)
11:14 kf :)
11:15 kf hi kyle
11:15 magnuse slef: :-)
11:15 magnuse hiya khall
11:16 khall morning magnuse!
11:16 kf khall: i tried testing maxfne this morning... but ran into some weirdnesses
11:16 khall kf: I'll have to check that out
11:17 kf I am not sure if it's realted to your patch - see last note
11:17 kf i would have liked to investigatemore but ran out of time and had to get to work
11:17 kf it was seriously buggy what I saw
11:17 kf maybe you have an idea as you know the code in ther ea bit
11:17 kf i started with an existing patron account that had lots over overdue checkouts
11:18 kf so I marked them all and returned them from the circ screen
11:18 khall yeah, I'll have to do some investigation.
11:18 kf and suddenly I had over 300+ euro credit
11:18 khall wow, that's interesting
11:18 kf then I tried repeating that with one item like notedon the bug, and coudl reproduce it twice
11:18 kf but then... not
11:18 kf so there is maybe some additional factor playing into it
11:18 khall ugh, that's the worst kind of bug
11:18 kf exactly
11:18 jcamins Hey, did I report the bug where if you click the plus to expand options on Orders search and then click the minus, the plus vanishes?
11:19 kf itdidn't look like I got a credit line - something in the existing fine lines must have changed
11:19 kf this patron has a lot of past...
11:19 kf and those suddenly added up to a negative value
11:19 kf and I also tested lost stuff with this accout... it's rather hairy
11:20 kf I am wondering not if it's in reality a bug with the fine refund for lost - but I can't check that installation now
11:20 marcelr jcamins: bug 6554 ?
11:20 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6554 critical, P3, ---, dpavlin, Pushed to Master , Resolve encoding problems with corrected UTF8 handling in templates
11:20 jcamins Nope.
11:21 jcamins It's a functionality bug.
11:21 jcamins I don't think I did, so I'm reporting it again.
11:21 jcamins If someone else recognizes it, you can mark my new one duplicate.
11:21 khall magnuse: we finally opened the bag of chocolates from you last night. They were most excellent!
11:22 magnuse khall: yay, good to hear!
11:22 marcelr jcamins: should we revert 6554 in 3.12.x?
11:24 jcamins marcelr: I don't know. It still concerns me.
11:25 marcelr jcamins: i think that we should now actually
11:25 magnuse bug 6554
11:25 marcelr i am still finding new things
11:25 jcamins Yeah, probably better to leave it for master, then.
11:25 marcelr like bug 10114 now
11:25 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10114 minor, P5 - low, ---, m.de.rooy, ASSIGNED , Double encoding problems caused by uri_escape_utf8
11:25 marcelr revert it from 3.12.x and leave it in master
11:26 kf i had one encoding problem this morning
11:26 kf butnot sure if it's realted
11:26 kf bug 100113
11:26 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=100113 was not found.
11:26 kf bug 10113
11:26 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10113 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Currency and cost calculation problem in acquisition
11:26 kf hm not that
11:26 wahanui somebody said not that was a probably - you'll just need to learn a few new techinques
11:26 kf bug 10110
11:26 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10110 normal, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Problems with diacritics in saved SQL reports
11:26 kf this one
11:26 wahanui i think this one is cool as long as someone *wants* acknowledgement
11:27 marcelr kf i will look at it too
11:27 marcelr probably a 6554 effect; needing a decode somewhere
11:27 marcelr i wrote this on the wiki now
11:28 marcelr http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Handling_UTF8_in_development
11:35 jcamins kf: were invoices ever sorted?
11:46 kf jcamins: context?
11:47 jcamins kf: when you're receiving items, you have to choose an invoice.
11:47 jcamins I was told that they used to be sorted in reverse date order, but now they are not.
12:02 kf jcamins: I am not sure
12:06 magnuse yeah sure, "06-DEC-12" is probably a good way to store a date
12:06 jcamins magnuse: Excel?
12:06 wahanui i think Excel is a bit stupid.
12:07 magnuse nope, proprietary ils
12:07 jcamins Also likely to be a bit stupid. ;)
12:08 * magnuse is under that impression too
12:17 kf marcelr: should I cc you and ? when I find problems with diacritics?
12:17 marcelr kf: that is fine
12:19 kf ok :) thx for adopting those bugs marcelr++ :)
12:35 oleonard Hi #koha
12:35 magnuse kia ora oleonard
12:35 kf hi oleonard :)
12:35 * magnuse discovers that git does not like $ in commit messages
12:38 jcamins Interesting.
12:38 wahanui interesting is, like, sometimes good and sometimes bad
12:45 tcohen morning #koha
12:47 magnuse buenas dias tcohen
12:50 tcohen como estas magnuse?
12:50 magnuse muy bien (i think)
12:51 tcohen gonna see those irc logz to see how the git bz issue continued
12:51 oleonard IE--
12:51 tcohen ie--
12:51 magnuse ie--
12:51 tcohen eg++
12:51 jcamins ie--
12:52 druthb o/
12:52 kf ie--
12:53 druthb ie— #joinin' the herd.
12:53 oleonard ie em-dash?
12:53 druthb heh. damn you, autocorrect!
12:53 druthb ie--
12:53 tcohen @later tell eythian: we could do smth like "for lang in $(koha-translate --list) ; do koha-translate --update $lang ; done" during the packages update
12:53 huginn tcohen: The operation succeeded.
12:54 druthb *squee*
12:54 * druthb enjoyed her ride to work this morning on her new motorscooter.
12:56 magnuse yay, congrats druthb
12:57 druthb It's a dream to ride, but I was startled to discover that the speedometer is in km/h. I looked down, and it said "50", and I thought, "that's nuts." Then I noticed the little lettering...
12:58 magnuse hehe
12:58 magnuse it's the small things :-)
12:58 druthb http://www.longboamerica.com/product.php?productid=7&
12:58 oleonard Snazzy. How long is your commute?
12:59 druthb About 15 minutes. City streets, no highway.
12:59 oleonard Nice
12:59 jcamins That's good, because it's a motor scooter!
12:59 jcamins :P
12:59 druthb Oh, I *could* get on a lesser-highway with this, for very short distances—at 2 AM when no one is around.
13:00 druthb but I'd rather not.
13:00 druthb One thing, though…Houston streets remind me of Mumbai, minus all the horns and little black-and-yellow rickshaws… holes *everywhere*
13:03 tcohen git checkout clean_master ; git pull
13:03 kf which color is it? :)
13:03 druthb Blue. :)
13:03 tcohen sh*tz
13:04 tcohen hey, that's a nice scooter btw
13:05 oleonard The United States is way behind the rest of the world in important areas like health care, broadband, and scooter ownership.
13:06 jcamins oleonard: or, as one might say, I need more scooterzzzz.
13:06 tcohen you don't have dulce de leche either
13:06 druthb scooooooterzorz!
13:06 oleonard I CAN HAZ SCOOTERZZZ PLZZZ?!
13:08 druthb More scooters also makes it *safer* for scooters, motorcycles, and bicycles. People will get used to watching for smaller chariots.
13:11 marcelr no scooters plzzz on the bike path
13:11 druthb Cheap to insure, cheap to operate…The only people who lose out with more-scooters is the big oil companies...
13:11 marcelr what about a bike?
13:12 * tcohen is ashamed he loves his car
13:12 * druthb would never do that, marcelr, unless walking her scooter if the engine had quit.
13:12 marcelr you should see holland
13:12 druthb Bikes are good if your city is compact enough for that. Houston is not.
13:12 druthb There are several cPanelers who live close enough to bike, and they do.
13:13 marcelr :)
13:16 druthb I live about 11.5 km from work. Far enough that a bike ride would be longish, even if I didn't have to ride on a super-busy street. But easy-peasy, on a scooter.
13:18 marcelr 11 km is not that much for a bike though
13:18 marcelr 25 minutes
13:19 jcamins I don't think I'd want to bike in 100 degree heat, though.
13:20 marcelr fahrenheit i suppose :)
13:20 marcelr have to calculate that to celsius
13:21 marcelr we should have it in koha
13:22 marcelr jcamins: send a message to dev about the encodings
13:22 druthb It's not that far, no, but the traffic— no. Four lanes each way, major-major street, 50 km/hr speed limit. Not safe for bicycles, at all.
13:22 marcelr yeah in our country biking is much safer
13:23 tcohen marcelr++ # for starting the UTF-8 handling wiki page
13:23 druthb Around here, in residential neighborhoods, and parks, that's about the only place it's safe to ride a bicycle.
13:24 marcelr tcohen++ #utf8 work
13:31 kf oleonard++ :)
13:37 kf bye :)
13:50 tcohen houston, we have problemzz
13:50 jcamins Hehe.
13:51 tcohen client denied by server configuration: /home/tomas/Work/PSI/Koha/koha-community-src/koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/cataloguing/value_builder/marc21_field_006.xml
13:51 tcohen the "client denied" thingz...
13:52 tcohen means bug 9812 broke it
13:52 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9812 minor, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Pushed to Stable , Several files shouldn't be exposed or browseable through a URL
13:53 tcohen which is strange, because I don't know what doez apache have to do with a .pl script being forbidden accezz to an xml file in the filesystemz
13:53 jcamins tcohen: works for me.
13:54 tcohen tried using the value builder for 006?
13:54 jcamins Just did, yeah.
13:55 tcohen did u re-run the install? (so that Deny from all sentence gets included?)
13:55 jcamins Oh, wait.
13:55 jcamins I don't use Apache.
13:55 tcohen hehe
13:59 tcohen can anyone using apache, on a new dev/standard install confirm this problem?
14:01 tcohen jcamins, we could revert that patch, or add an "Allow from 127.0.0.1" line
14:02 jcamins tcohen: wait... we request the XML from the web server?
14:02 tcohen that's what i0m not understanding actualy
14:03 tcohen looks like the cgi script is forbidden access to the XML... which is rare as the templates are also forbidden...
14:04 tcohen marc21_field_006.pl seems to just read from the filesystem
14:04 jcamins Yeah, that's what it looks like to me too.
14:04 tcohen *but* unless the allow from localhost thing, it doesn't work
14:47 jcamins oleonard: are you planning to address relator term codes and rebase bug 8661 for 3.14?
14:47 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8661 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Failed QA , break out additional authors in opac like in staff
14:48 oleonard I was hoping to. Why?
14:48 jcamins I was asked if that was likely to go into Koha at some point.
14:48 jcamins I said "yes, I think so."
14:48 jcamins But I wanted to confirm.
15:04 samuel hi everybody
15:05 samuel i've a problem: i've this message "local use recorded" when i scan a barcode
15:08 jcamins samuel: that means the book wasn't checked out.
15:09 samuel it's for all books
15:09 jcamins Sounds like you need to train your circ librarians to check books out to patrons.
15:11 samuel oups, i don't really understand. Is it a parameter which could be the source of the problem?
15:12 jcamins What is the problem?
15:12 wahanui i think the problem is it's human beings doing it. Rebuild your indexes.
15:13 jcamins "Local use recorded" means that Koha is recording a local use on the item.
15:13 jcamins If it is an item that was supposed to have been circulated, the problem is that your circ staff didn't check the book out to the patron.
15:14 oleonard samuel: You see the message for books which were checked out?
15:15 samuel each time i scan a barcode, there is this message
15:16 jcamins samuel: if the "problem" is just that you don't want to record local uses, your options are to either not scan items in when they don't need to be or disable RecordLocalUseOnReturn. However, I still have no idea what the problem is.
15:17 oleonard jcamins: The problem is he sees the message when checking in items which were checked out.
15:17 oleonard It should only display for items which were not checked out as I understand it.
15:17 jcamins oleonard: okay, so we're sure the items were checked out?
15:18 jcamins That was not clear to me.
15:18 samuel RecordLocalUseOnReturn is disabled
15:19 tweetbot [off] twitter: @infoCCSR: "Ménage du printemps pour la communauté Koha-CCSR! http://t.co/bL2YbWNVM0 cc/@kohails #ccsr #logiciellibre"
15:19 jcamins Hm. That feature works correctly for me, so I can't tell you what the problem is.
15:19 oleonard Me too samuel. What version are you using?
15:20 samuel 3.10.04
15:20 jcamins And you get the local usage message when you are checking books in or checking books out?
15:21 jcamins It just occurred to me, it could be that your patrons are marked as statistical.
15:27 cait \waves
15:29 reiveune bye
15:29 jcamins oleonard: I have a question for you about your library's circ workflow.
15:29 oleonard Sure
15:30 jcamins How do you make sure that all the books a patron leaves with are actually checked out?
15:30 oleonard We don't.
15:30 jcamins Ah.
15:30 jcamins You have a fairly busy library, so it seems like it would be easy to have a barcode mis-scan and not notice.
15:31 oleonard We can't afford to implement any kind of RFID security system or whatever.
15:31 jcamins I wasn't thinking about intentional theft. More about high volumes of circ and inadvertant slips.
15:32 oleonard I figure the issue is basically the same.
15:33 jcamins I was asked about some sort of modal dialog that forces the circ person to acknowledge that a barcode doesn't exist.
15:34 jcamins I'm not sure how I feel about that.
15:34 cait grr tablet thinks keyboard should be english
15:34 oleonard There are other circ operations which block subsequent scans until something has been acknowledged
15:34 cait that limits my vocabulary
15:34 jcamins There are?
15:35 cait so maybe we would onlz need to change the tzpe of the message_
15:35 oleonard Yes, including some which I disagree with. I wonder if I can remember what they are...
15:35 jcamins Oh, like checking a book that is already checked out to Patron A to Patron B.
15:35 jcamins Right.
15:36 oleonard Actually what I most disagree with is that we handle different cases differently UI-wise. Sometimes the barcode form is disabled, sometimes it is hidden
15:37 cait it is_
15:37 cait no idea where the questionmark is now
15:37 jcamins Poor cait. No more touch typing.
15:37 cait i can, but it will look funnz >(
15:37 cait smiling smilez at the end there
15:38 oleonard Lucky for you we're adding zzz to everything today anyway ;)
15:38 jcamins Yup.
15:38 cait zeah
15:38 jcamins So you'll fit right in.
15:38 cait onlz the smilezs are a bit sad
15:38 cait its onlz the chat program.... must be a bug
15:39 jcamins You know what would be nice?
15:39 jcamins Using a TT filter for the "Please confirm" dialog.
15:40 oleonard How would that work?
15:41 rambutan @seen khall
15:41 huginn rambutan: khall was last seen in #koha 4 hours, 19 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <khall> magnuse: we finally opened the bag of chocolates from you last night. They were most excellent!
15:41 jcamins [% IF whatever %][% PROCESS pleaseconfirm %]message...[% END %][% END %]
15:42 jcamins The idea being that the title and buttons should be consistent and only the message in the center changes.
15:42 oleonard Those buttons usually come with lots of hidden form fields
15:43 jcamins Hm.
15:43 jcamins Not so consistent as I thought.
15:43 jcamins Oh well.
15:45 cait nice trz >(
15:56 rambutan @later tell khall plz ping me when you get a chance
15:56 huginn rambutan: The operation succeeded.
16:01 oleonard jcamins: I wonder if we could do pagination bars better through TT? Right now some are built in Output.pm
16:01 jcamins oleonard: probably could.
16:01 jcamins At the very least, we could have a block that does the markup.
16:02 cait oh oleonard
16:02 wahanui oleonard is still here, if you just wish hard enough. or Koha's master UI designer
16:02 oleonard We'd have to pass in the URL somehow jcamins
16:02 cait have zou sen the bug about the doubled up pagination on... order receive i think_
16:02 jcamins Sure.
16:02 cait i filed it, but it|s not template but acq i think
16:02 jcamins You'd pass an array of page number => URL to the block.
16:03 cait actuallz i am reallz reallz pleased that someone is pazing zou for fixing up acq
16:03 cait wide smiling smilez
16:03 jcamins Wrong window. :P
16:03 cait ugh
16:03 cait i will need a new chat app eventuallz
16:04 jcamins Something like this: [% searchpagination | FILTER paginator %]
16:05 oleonard I don't see that bug cait
16:05 jcamins And searchpagination would look like: { '1' => url1, '2' => url2, .. '5' => url5, '32' => url32 }
16:06 cait oleonard: i will trz to find it
16:07 druthb cait, are zou having kezboard issues?
16:13 cait zes
16:13 cait touch tzping on an english kezboard...
16:13 cait accidentallz
16:13 druthb heh. Stuff in the wrong place?
16:13 cait tablet
16:13 cait its onlz this app... all others are ok, so not the settings >*
16:13 druthb >.<
16:13 cait that was a sad smilez
16:14 druthb aww
16:17 cait oleaonard bug 10044
16:17 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10044 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , Doubled up paging on order receive
16:27 oleonard Oh yeah cait I did see that. I was discouraged by the fact that I would have to add so many orders to test it :(
16:27 * oleonard is acquisitions-lazy
17:01 rambutan I need to acquire some grub.
17:08 cait oleonard: mazbe use the staged import
17:08 cait lots of order lines reallz fast
17:08 oleonard Oh that's a good idea, I forgot about that option
17:19 tweetbot [off] twitter: @opensourceway: "What's the best thing about @kohails? You pick: it's free, #opensource, and the first of its kind for libraries | http://t.co/thGv3INTmD"
17:32 cait back :)
17:32 cait and I can type smileys again!
17:34 druthb :D and the y key!
17:35 cait yep :)
17:35 druthb :) yay!
17:48 cait one of the library schools here now offers 'library computer science'
17:48 cait that's a bit late - but still awesome :)
18:16 cait gmcharlt, jcamins, druthb: should we vote on translation manager next meeting?
18:16 jcamins cait: I have no objection.
18:17 cait it's not on the agenda yet: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting,_7_May_2013
18:19 cait brb
18:19 gmcharlt cait: unless it looks like it's going to be contest, I have no objection to voting then
18:19 gmcharlt *contested
18:24 jcamins ie--
18:35 cait gmcharlt: contest?
18:36 gmcharlt cait: contested
18:36 jcamins cait: if more than one person wants the role.
18:36 cait maybe someone else should put it on the agenda :)
18:36 cait becasue I am confused now
18:36 gmcharlt cait: I'll do so in a bit
18:37 cait thank you
18:38 cait I asked ruth - she is ok with voting too
18:40 druthb dooooo eeeeet
18:53 tcohen so, thre's a bot that uses too much the letter z
18:53 tcohen "sir plzz tell me how to download koha
18:53 tcohen explain sir plzz"
18:58 maximep hey guys, a quesiton about the RDA marc21 framework. I don't understand why the sql at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/MARC_frameworks#RDA_Framework doesnt seem to have the field I see on http://www.loc.gov/marc/RDAinMARC.html
18:59 maximep but I admin I know pretty much nothing about that stuff :/
18:59 cait which fields do you miss?
18:59 jcamins maximep: it could be the field was added in an update after the framework was made.
19:00 maximep sql was uploabed by Chris in December 2012
19:00 maximep maybe I just don't understand all that stuff
19:01 * jcamins doesn't know what field you're talking about.
19:01 maximep for exemple 377 - Associated Language (R)
19:01 cait maybe he just missed it
19:02 maximep hmmm
19:02 jcamins Probably because it is confusingly labelled and the link takes you to the authority spec.
19:02 cait aah
19:02 cait that makes sense
19:03 maximep oh, am I confusing authority and bibliographic fields ?
19:04 jcamins No, that field is valid in bibliographic records apparently, but the documentation just points you to authority records.
19:04 maximep ok
19:04 jcamins You should add the missing field(s) and upload a new framework.
19:08 maximep weird, this doc from 2009 has those fields http://www.loc.gov/marc/formatchanges-RDA.html. I think I will ask Chris directly when he comes by
19:08 jcamins I'm sure he just overlooked them.
19:08 jcamins As RDA is entirely useless, one wouldn't want to spend a whole lot of time on that.
19:08 magnuse lol
19:09 maximep good to know
19:10 magnuse maybe we should use more marc?
19:10 cait more marc?
19:11 cait hm
19:11 magnuse we should use more marc
19:11 wahanui http://02varvara.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/01-how-about-no-bear.jpg?w=800
19:11 jcamins should we use more marc?
19:11 jcamins There it is.
19:11 jcamins :)
19:11 magnuse :-)
19:12 cait you have to make a serious face when saying it
19:12 cait more marc
19:12 cait hm.
19:12 cait we should use more marc
19:12 wahanui http://02varvara.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/01-how-about-no-bear.jpg?w=800
19:12 cait ah
19:13 jcamins Actually, I would object to RDA even if we weren't using MARC.
19:13 jcamins Ditto FRBR.
19:15 tcohen so, we now have to wrap 'open' to test for BOM first :-P
19:15 jcamins tcohen: actually, I was planning on ignoring the issue.
19:16 jcamins Patches are welcome, of course, but the solution to that particular problem is "don't open your CSVs in Excel."
19:16 cait tcohen, khall: i can reproduce the fine weirdnesson master
19:16 khall what bug number was that cait?
19:17 cait not sure might be a new bug once I am done
19:17 cait i found it testing 10030
19:17 tcohen ouch
19:17 cait now trying to investigate more
19:17 khall I see, keep at it!
19:17 cait hm interesting
19:17 wahanui somebody said interesting was sometimes good and sometimes bad
19:17 cait do we calculate fines on return now?
19:18 cait by force?
19:18 khall usually bad
19:18 khall cait, yes
19:18 cait can you switch that off?
19:18 khall I don't believe so
19:18 cait that's bad.
19:18 jcamins That's a bit of a massive oversight.
19:18 khall if the fine is up-to-date then the recalculation shouldn't do anything
19:18 khall why is that?
19:18 cait because it's a major workflow change
19:19 cait libraries might have patrons pay the fine before returning the book
19:19 cait or something like that
19:19 khall you should still be running fines.pl nightly
19:19 cait or there might be a reason you turn off the fines cronjob
19:19 khall it was a necessary addition for hourly loans
19:19 cait hm, wonder if finesmode turns it off
19:19 khall it should still respect finesmod
19:19 cait well maybe it should only do hourly calculations then
19:20 khall why?
19:20 jcamins It's definitely a necessary feature, but it should be possible to disable, since it does change the way that fines function.
19:20 jcamins The most obvious place where it's a problem would be if you run your cronjob at an odd time in order to change when fines accrue.
19:20 * cait nods
19:21 khall jcamins: can you describe a real world situation like that? I'm having a hard time thinking of one.
19:22 jcamins khall: I can.
19:22 jcamins It's the workaround for dropbox mode not working the same as in...
19:22 jcamins Horizon?
19:22 wahanui i think Horizon is proprietary software.
19:22 jcamins The ILS used by public libraries.
19:23 khall how does it work in horizon?
19:23 jcamins Bug 5644.
19:23 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5644 critical, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, RESOLVED FIXED, dropbox mode doesn't set the correct date
19:23 jcamins I think it's Horizon.
19:24 jcamins Drop box mode will charge only the fines that were owed yesterday.
19:24 khall that's how Koha's dropbox mode works, right?
19:24 jcamins I was under the impression it did not, no.
19:24 jcamins Though that may have been fixed.
19:25 cait khall: I think itmight not be ok to do that
19:25 khall hm, I was under the impression that is did! What behavior is dropbox mode expected to have?
19:25 cait because if the fine does not show in the patron account... it should not suddenly appear at the circ desk
19:25 jcamins 5644 says RESOLVED-FIXED.
19:25 jcamins I thought all dropbox mode in Koha did was back-date the checkin.
19:26 cait jcamins: it used to do that yes
19:26 khall backdate, which causes the fine to be re-calculated
19:26 khall iirc
19:26 cait i remember rangi argueing on some bug about that
19:27 cait this is seriously borked
19:27 cait or not
19:27 cait it seems to respect finesmode at least
19:27 cait now I stil have to find out how I ended up with credit
19:27 cait and still thinking this new behaviour needs documentation
19:28 cait if a library has just turned off the cronjob
19:28 cait and didn't disable the pref
19:28 khall it should be lowering the fine amount on recalculation
19:28 cait they will suddenly have a lot of fines everywhere
19:28 khall maybe it's gone screwy, perhaps someone made a number negative when it should be positive or visa versa
19:28 tcohen cait: we should have unit tests that express the desired behaviour
19:28 khall this is why I'm rewriting the accounts system ; )
19:29 tcohen several things were working while the Calendar wasn't, so i'm not suprised this errors arise
19:31 cait ugh
19:31 cait now it stopped doing it
19:31 cait koha!!
19:31 tcohen memcached sysprefs?
19:31 jcamins Probably changing finesmode?
19:31 cait tcohen: not using memcache
19:31 cait but thx for providing hints
19:31 cait I did set it back to calculate
19:34 jcamins Just a reminder for those around that string freeze is next Wednesday.
19:35 cait thx jcamins
19:37 cait khall: ook
19:37 cait I switched finesmode off an don... and now it doesn't work
19:37 cait at all
19:37 cait it's not calculating
19:37 cait but it did before
19:40 cait khall: don't hide! :)
19:41 khall hmm
19:41 khall you mean it's not calculating when you run fines.pl?
19:41 cait it doesn't calculate the fine now on return
19:41 cait no I mean it did calculate the fine exactly once
19:41 cait and now it doesn't
19:41 khall if finesmode is off, it shouldn't, right?
19:41 cait it's on
19:42 khall I'm confused ; )
19:42 cait so am i
19:42 jcamins khall: new problem. :)
19:43 khall : )=
19:44 cait ok
19:44 cait I thik it'*s a matter of cheating when testing
19:44 cait it works exactly once
19:45 cait check out the item backdated - return - fine recalculates
19:45 cait pay fine - do the same again - no fine
19:46 cait it works once you use a new patron
19:48 khall ugh, it's probably seeing the old fine and saying "The fines already there, I don't need to update it"
19:48 cait i guess so
19:48 khall that sounds very familiar
19:49 cait i am trying to find out if that woudl be a problem in a real life setting
19:49 khall sure it would be. Anyone who checks out a book more than once but returned it late the first time.
19:49 cait hmm
19:50 cait i wonder if it's aproblem because I am doing it on the same day - which would not be possible without a time machine
19:50 rangi Morning
19:50 wahanui Morning is a state of cat
19:50 cait i have to find an older checkout
19:50 khall cait: I think your on to something
19:50 cait morning rangi
19:50 rangi It should check date too so yes
19:50 khall it's based on the description which has the due date/time in it
19:50 khall same day = same due date/time = ignored
19:51 khall in that case, not a real world problem.
19:51 cait ok
19:51 cait that's good then
19:51 cait I still have to figure out how I got the credit
19:51 khall again, my new account system will fix that ; )
19:51 cait oh i think i know
19:51 khall No more identifying fines by the description
19:51 cait it recalculated
19:51 cait with my new configuration
19:51 khall unique ids! unique ids everywhere!
19:51 cait I had that book checked out in the past - with a higher fine applying
19:51 cait then for testing this
19:52 cait I changed the configuration and added a maxfine that was much lower than before
19:52 cait and then... when I returned... I got a credit for the difference
19:52 cait and now we now why calculating on return can turn out really bad
19:53 cait hm but that would be a problem with fines.pl too I guess
19:53 khall yup
19:53 cait fines is giving me headaches
19:53 khall it's just delayed by a few hours
19:53 khall any changes to fine rules must be retroactive to open checkouts
19:53 rangi Fine on return needs to be able to be disabled
19:53 khall I can't imagine a way around that
19:54 rangi As an aside
19:54 rangi Because it doesn't fit the workflow of many libraries
19:54 khall that's how this convo began ; )
19:54 cait well, we got the third vote for a syspref now
19:54 cait mine, jcamins and rangi
19:54 cait I am filing a bug
19:54 rangi Cool well let me restate it does
19:55 khall it's necessary for the hourly loans, and we could just fix it by only calculating fines on return for hourly loans
19:55 khall no need for a syspref then,
19:55 khall no way to mess up the configuration by accident
19:55 cait rangi: what do you think?
19:55 rangi That would be slower and more error prone than a syspref
19:56 rangi I'll add the syspref if no one else does
19:56 cait maybe have a pref: not at all, only hourly, all
19:56 rangi Yep
19:56 cait i am filing the bug
19:56 khall I don't see how that would be slower and more error prone, can you explain?
19:56 rangi How do you know it was an hourly loan on return
19:56 khall i guess you'd have to pull the rule
19:57 rangi Exactly
19:57 rangi Slower
19:57 khall or you could just look at the due date and assume anything due at 23:59 is non hourly
19:57 rangi Eww god no
19:57 khall which would make the non-syspref way *more* fast
19:57 khall lol
19:57 rangi Magic numbers are a horrible idea
19:58 khall however, with the syspref, if a library uses hourly loans and disables the fines-on-return they won't get fines on the hourly loans
19:58 jcamins 23:59 is a real time, which means it is a valid time for something to be due, and using magic numbers always causes problems down the line.
19:58 rangi Serves them right then
19:58 cait bug 10120
19:58 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10120 major, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Fine recalculation on return needs to be a system preference
19:59 rangi I prefer that to breaking the workflow of existing koha users
19:59 jcamins Add a note to the hourly loans syspref saying "you must enable whatever if you want to charge fines on hourly loans."
19:59 khall hasn't it been like this for a number of releases now? When was hourly added?
19:59 rangi Yes and it sux and annoys patrons
20:00 khall or we could add a flag to the issues table to say 'this is hourly' or 'this is daily', but that's even more involved.
20:00 rangi 3.8
20:00 cait khall: it's more involved
20:00 cait but long term we should do just that
20:00 cait i hate that we display 23:59
20:00 cait it's confusing for 100% of our libraries as they don't have any need for hourly loans
20:01 cait we should not display times for daily loans.
20:01 khall we could strip out the time if it's 23:59, but that's again using a 'magic number' which doesn't seem to fly here
20:01 cait also we could have real 'neverending' loans with a marker that way
20:01 khall so yeah, I think the idea of having the issue flagged as hourly or daily is the way to go
20:01 rangi It shouldn't ever fly anywhere
20:01 khall rangi: what do you think of that solution?
20:01 rangi I'm still adding a syspref
20:02 rangi But that would allow it to be trinary
20:02 rangi None, hourly, all
20:02 cait and hate was maybe strong...
20:02 cait but even horizon didn't do that
20:02 cait :)
20:03 khall I think for hourly it should always be forced, otherwise the circ rules don't function correctly.
20:03 rangi Only if you fine
20:03 khall right, but *if* you fine, it should just work
20:04 khall it would make it all more user-friendly, don't you think?
20:04 rangi Unless you don't want it to
20:04 rangi @quote get 123
20:04 wahanui http://xkcd.com/1172/
20:04 huginn rangi: Quote #123: "rangi: #thingsihavelearnt if there is a mad scheme a library somewhere will be doing it ... except madder" (added by wizzyrea at 09:20 PM, March 30, 2011)
20:04 khall if you don't want it to, you just set the fine amount to 0
20:04 drojf i would try bug 10111 but i fail to understand how to group baskets?! i have baskets for a vendor, but when i open the add basket group tab "ungrouped baskets" is empty
20:04 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10111 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Layout on basket summary page a bit inconsistent
20:04 rangi No you might want it to fine with the cron job job
20:04 tcohen hey rangi, I told that guyz to download a livecdz and don't bother here
20:05 rangi Good plan
20:05 jcamins Hehe.
20:05 tcohen (true story)
20:05 khall the cronjob would have to run every minute, then, right?
20:05 cait drojf: go to the vendor page
20:06 cait check for the basket groups page
20:06 cait there should be a new button somewhere there
20:06 cait and then drag and drop them
20:06 rangi No they might only level fines at the end of the day but you get fined the amount you are overdue
20:06 * khall waves his white flag
20:06 cait don't trie in internet explorer... but it's unlikely you would do that, right?
20:06 jcamins drojf: then bang your head on the desk until acq stops hurting.
20:06 cait jcamins: tsk
20:06 drojf cait: that is where i am. i have that basket group
20:06 cait don't dicourage a nice tester!
20:06 drojf i just cant add anything
20:07 jcamins cait: I'm trying to help him survive!
20:07 drojf because no baskets are shown
20:07 cait ok, oyu have the screen with 2 columns
20:07 drojf lol @ ie
20:07 rangi You could kindly the 2 sysprefs
20:07 cait ah
20:07 rangi Lol link
20:07 khall rangi: but if the item is checked out, goes overdue, and is returned before fines.pl is run, it doesn't get a fine.
20:07 cait did you close your baskets?
20:07 khall right?
20:07 cait you can only add closed baskets
20:07 drojf AH!
20:07 rangi Right
20:07 drojf how would i know? :D
20:07 tweetbot [off] twitter: @esilibrary: "Great Job ESI Support Team! http://t.co/4DlAulXb83 #egils #kohails"
20:07 drojf ok thanks
20:07 khall that's the problem to me
20:07 drojf will try
20:07 cait drojf: because you asked me? :)
20:08 * drojf wonders what that function is for at all…
20:08 cait sending out composed pdf orders
20:08 cait i mean group the orders, make one pdf
20:08 drojf i see
20:08 rangi Acqui is next for a rewrite
20:08 drojf i think i'll take some of the head/desk thingy jcamins recommended ;)
20:09 * khall lowers his white flag and hoists his jolly roger!
20:09 khall well, it's time for me to run. Later all!
20:09 rangi A library asked me on Tuesday why does acqui get worse each release
20:09 cait bye khall
20:09 khall bye cait!
20:09 cait rangi: ouch
20:09 cait did they tell you what they hate?
20:09 rangi It's true though
20:10 cait hm for our libraries it's the opposite, but it might be a question of workflow
20:10 cait france/germany might be similar insane :)
20:10 rangi Funds and budgets are backwards
20:10 cait yeah i agree with that
20:10 rangi You can't roll over
20:10 rangi The plus thing sux
20:11 drojf at least the basket grouping is fancy with the draggy and the droppy :D
20:11 cait you could program that... but because the structure is not well, it might get really difficult
20:11 rangi There's hours worth
20:11 cait i would encourage them to write it down
20:11 cait mailing list
20:11 wahanui mailing list is at http://koha-community.org/support/koha-mailing-lists/
20:11 cait bugzilla
20:11 wahanui well, bugzilla is found at http://bugs.koha-community.org
20:11 rangi I wouldn't
20:11 cait lol thx wahanui
20:12 rangi Because that would just be disheartening
20:12 jcamins Automatic rollover is probably hopeless, but it seems to me that making it possible to change the fund/budget at receive might make it vaguely less painful when the new fiscal year starts.
20:12 rangi My stop brb
20:12 cait jcamins: it woudl be hard, but not hopeless I think, you'd probably have to do a mapping
20:13 cait have a page with old and new funds... and let the library map them
20:13 cait and then roll over
20:13 jcamins ie--
20:13 rangi You'd have to start again
20:13 cait or do start again
20:13 rangi Cos its shit
20:13 jcamins Exactly. Rollover would require a clean slate and sane structures.
20:13 rangi And fails audits
20:13 cait but even then, if the structure of funds changed between years, roll over would run into problems
20:14 jcamins Yeah, but you wouldn't start out with an impossible-to-reconcile mess.
20:14 cait hm I thik that is a bit late now
20:14 jcamins I know.
20:14 jcamins But isn't it a glorious thought?
20:14 cait i mean we should have worried about that when it was sitting in the 3.0 to be master
20:14 cait before release
20:14 cait but noone did
20:15 rangi It's not too late
20:15 cait no, but it requires work
20:16 rangi You don't keep fixing a pile of crap you start again
20:17 rangi It's a massive waste of everyone's time otherwise
20:18 cait but who will fund a complete rewrite?
20:18 cait and how will libraries using it now be moved over?
20:18 rangi And don't talk to me about 3.0 as if we had any control over it
20:18 cait it's like search rewrite... only more difficult
20:18 rangi Way way way less difficult
20:19 cait rangi: sorry
20:19 rangi Acquisition isn't hard we just made it be
20:19 cait I was quite new around here back then
20:19 rangi Libraries who like retarded acqui can use the current system
20:20 rangi Others can switch at the financial year
20:20 rangi Clean break
20:20 rangi Tge
20:21 cait tge=
20:21 cait ?
20:22 * jcamins waves to gglitch.
20:22 jcamins You can just go ahead and ask your question.
20:22 gglitch Hi jcamins :)
20:22 * jcamins curses IE.
20:22 jcamins The tab key stopped working.
20:22 jcamins Why do I use IE?
20:23 jeff jcamins: interop testing?
20:23 jcamins jeff: yep.
20:23 jcamins Exactly.
20:23 jcamins It still makes me miserable.
20:23 gglitch Howdy. Enthusiastic novice here. I've just inherited a Koha 3.0.4 installation on an Ubuntu 10.04 server. Am I better off trying to upgrade both Ubuntu and Koha, or freshly installing each, and figuring out how to migrate my data?
20:23 jcamins The Koha upgrade is easy.
20:24 jeff there was an hn thread earlier today discussing the proper naming of the one css file that contains all your dirty hacks. original suggestion was shame.css, someone suggested guilt.css, third person chimed in "i've been doing this for years. mine's called ie8.css"
20:24 jcamins You can just copy your data from the old server to the new server, run the upgrade script, and after a few... minutes/hours/days... it'll be upgraded.
20:24 jcamins I tend not to upgrade my servers' OSes.
20:24 jcamins jeff: lol
20:26 gglitch @jcamins Thanks very much. Does copying my data just mean moving the database over?
20:26 huginn gglitch: downloading the Perl source
20:29 jcamins Jeez, lag!
20:29 rangi gglitch: 3.0.4 is really really old
20:29 rangi so i would do a couple of upgrades
20:29 rangi not try and go all the way from 3.0.x to 3.10.x (or 3.12.x depending on when you start)
20:30 * jcamins heads home.
20:30 jcamins So long, #koha.
20:31 gglitch Thanks jcamins. Rangi, thank you too - but this is easier than migrating data to a fresh install?
20:31 gglitch The Koha page seems pretty adamant that Koha should no longer be used on anything older than Ubuntu 12.04
20:33 rangi gglitch: not easier
20:33 rangi but if you do a couple of thousand db updates in one go
20:34 rangi i bet you will miss the 3 that failed
20:34 rangi :)
20:34 rangi (couple of thousand is an exaggeration its probably a couple of hundred)
20:34 gglitch Forgive my newbness, but you're referring to whatever process would hook a new installation of Koha up to the current installation's data store?
20:35 gglitch Or translate that data store to the format/version required by the new Koha?
20:37 tcohen gglitch: do u like the umbillical bros?
20:37 gglitch I
20:38 gglitch m interpreting that as a joke about the infantile state of my knowledge. I'm googling frantically.
20:38 gglitch The, ah, fetal state of my sysadmin skills.
20:38 tcohen there was a joke on a show, "I think there was a g-glitch"
20:39 chris_n gglitch: sorry I missed you, but I see you found your way over here anyway
20:39 gglitch Don't know that show, but from now on, Max Headroom is my primary inspiration as a librarian.
20:39 rangi gglitch: thats right
20:39 gglitch Thanks chris_n :)
20:39 tcohen http://www.metacafe.com/watch/978919/the_umbilical_brothers_gli_glitch/
20:40 tcohen sorry gglitch, it was just a bad joke
20:42 gglitch tcohen - funny video. Never heard of the umbilical brothers :)
20:43 tcohen you have to see the speedmouse show then :-D
20:45 gglitch This is hysterical
20:46 tcohen its a synonim for good or for bad?
20:48 gglitch I'm just saying it's funny :)
20:50 gglitch K so but seriously. I have to make sense of this Koha business. I haven't found an easy way to migrate data from an outdated Koha installation to a new one. Any pointers, before I dive back into the nets?
20:50 gglitch (pun acknowledged but not intended)
20:52 rangi gglitch: id start with a new server
20:52 rangi running a recent debian or ubuntu lts
20:53 rangi install koha via packages load the data in, and do a ton of testing
20:53 rangi bbiab
20:54 gglitch Thanks rangi!
21:06 drojf wouldn't it be fun to have koha create an XMPP account for each patron on a local server? we could use it in a social-networky way and have a local »librarybook« network.
21:18 cait night all
21:18 wahanui goodnight cait. You'll be back.
21:28 rangi drojf: i did that once
21:29 rangi but before xmpp
21:29 rangi with AIM
21:29 rangi then i started converting my bot to jabber
21:29 rangi https://github.com/ranginui/kohabot
21:32 rangi i think my screenshots were on a evil blog
21:32 drojf rangi: that's cool!
21:35 rangi [off] http://web.archive.org/web/20070901060311/http://blogs.liblime.com/developers/2007/06/22/instant-message-your-ils/
21:35 rangi [off] i totally didnt do it on their dime, dunno why i put it on that blog, seemed like a good idea at the time i guess
21:36 rangi it was pre ils-di
21:36 rangi and pre svc/
21:36 rangi so it would be easier to do now
21:40 drojf true. i like it!
21:41 drojf i was thinking about something like having your patrons get accounts automatically and be able to post stuff and chat and it shows up somewhere in koha. i don't know if i would want to chat with the co-patrons at the libraries i use but it feels crazy enough that libraries might like it :D
21:41 jcamins Hehe.
21:41 drojf on a second thought, have all your items have jabber accounts. they could start spamming the users ;)
21:42 jcamins Heh.
21:43 drojf "(10:15:00) Harry Potter: I am overdue! Return me immediately!"
21:44 drojf rangi: searching from a jabber client would be nice. i'd definitely use that
21:51 rangi heh
21:51 rangi yep
21:52 rangi and renew from jabber
21:52 rangi id use that
21:52 drojf yes!
22:04 rangi random question
22:05 rangi is there a way to delete all links to authorities?
22:05 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
22:11 jcamins rangi: not in Koha.
22:11 jcamins Easy enough to script, though.
22:11 rangi dangit
22:11 rangi rip through and kill all the 9's ?
22:11 jcamins Either remove all authorities and run the linker with KeepStaleHeadings off and LinkerRelink on, or just delete all the $9s in 1xx, 6xx, and 7xx.
22:12 rangi ah yep
22:12 rangi removing all authorities, just delete in the db eh?
22:12 jcamins And reset the index.
22:12 rangi right
22:12 rangi ill give that a crack
22:16 jcamins BTW, strawberries were $0.79/pound!
22:17 rangi id buy 12 pound then
22:17 drojf good night #koha
22:17 rangi cya drojf
22:18 rangi also
22:18 rangi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT7W8xJFl_g
22:22 jcamins So far I've bought 6lbs this week.
22:22 jcamins And chances are I'll buy more tomorrow.
22:25 mtompset If I installed a beta version of Ubuntu and the final release has been done, would a sudo apt-get update;sudo apt-get upgrade; sudo apt-get dist-upgrade; sudo do-release-upgrade be sufficient to make sure I'm using the non-beta version?
22:32 ibeardslee if you are already running the beta the do-release-upgrade isn't required
22:32 jcamins No idea, sorry.
22:33 ibeardslee I've been just running the "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" to keep the updates happening.
22:34 ibeardslee Also be aware of the mirror you are using some may still be a little bit behind and may not have the absolute 'final' release yet.
22:39 mtompset Thanks for the feedback. :)
22:39 mtompset ibeardslee++
22:39 mtompset jcamins++ # reply is better than silence. :)
22:55 eythian hi
22:57 eythian @later tell tcohen if you place a : after my name in @later tell, I'll never see your message :)
22:57 huginn eythian: The operation succeeded.
22:58 eythian @later tell tcohen I also don't want to have all the languages in one package, I'd rather split them into their own.
22:58 huginn eythian: The operation succeeded.
23:03 grubbing rangi or jcamins: why don't one of you write a koha chatterbot in your spare time?
23:04 rambutan http://sweetlibrarian.com/2012/04/emma-the-catbot/
23:04 rambutan http://mentor.patch.com/articles/catbot-makes-purr-fect-impression-at-mentor-public-library
23:05 rangi yeah, naw
23:10 rambutan http://oedb.org/blogs/ilibrarian/2013/6-things-libraries-can-do-with-google-glass/
23:26 jcamins Hm. If only wizzyrea were here to remind me how to figure out the freezing point of sugar solutions.
23:46 jcamins If I can make a solution that is exactly saturated, it should remain mostly liquid in my freezer.
23:47 eythian a bit of antifreeze will help too
23:48 tcohen alcohol
23:48 tcohen ;)
23:49 jcamins tcohen: perfect!
23:49 jcamins Now... what proportion of alcohol is necessary...
23:50 eythian all of it, clearly
23:50 tcohen eythian, I was thinking more on 3.12 packages, which probably won't benefit from the koha-lang packages
23:50 tcohen heh eythian
23:51 eythian ah yes, I need to have a look at those patches
23:51 tcohen i halted my work on those scripts until someone takes a look
23:51 tcohen but i'll resume tomorrow
23:52 eythian I intend to, just super busy at the moment
23:52 tcohen yeah, i imagine, n orush!