Time Nick Message 07:14 cait hi #koha 08:07 rangi hi cait 08:08 cait hi rangi 13:08 jcamins_away drojf++ 14:07 drojf wow, cleaning bugzilla would take years 14:08 cait hm? 14:08 cait cleaning from? 14:09 cait have you seen the signed off is up to over 70 again? :( 14:09 * cait needs more tea to deal with this 14:10 drojf cleaning from "new" bugs dating back to 2009 14:19 liw possibly relevant: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2012/07/09.html 14:22 cait drojf: oh yeah 14:22 cait want to have a bug squashing party with me? 14:22 cait I only need to get a bit warmer first 14:22 cait hi liw :) 14:25 cait Then close as “won’t fix†everything left in the bug database. Don’t worry, the severe bugs will come back. 14:25 * cait cites 14:25 cait i think the time frames are a bit har here... so many different people involved 14:26 cait hard 14:26 * jcamins_away isn't really here, but has a question for liw about the Debian Perl project... 14:27 jcamins_away I'm thinking of packaging the QueryParser module used by Evergreen (and soon Koha too) for Debian, and trying to get it included. 14:27 * cait waves to jared 14:27 cait who is not really here 14:27 cait like drojf and druthb_away 14:27 jcamins_away Is that something someone like me, who doesn't have any reputation as an expert Debian developer, could reasonably do? 14:29 drojf cait: after doing a few bugs in the last hours i am getting closer to that "close as won't fix" attitude… 14:30 cait oh 14:30 cait go and have soome food 14:30 cait meet here in 30? ;) 14:30 jcamins_away I think closing old bugs as WONTFIX is a good idea. 14:31 jcamins_away It's easy to reopen or open new ones. 14:31 jcamins_away But we are so concerned about "not closing anyone else's bugs" in this project that our bug tracker is entirely worthless. 14:32 drojf cait: sorry, i am done for today 14:32 drojf it's not the most rewarding thing to do ;) 14:32 jcamins_away The last time I used bugzilla for anything was probably a year and a half ago. 14:33 jcamins_away (anything other than obtaining a bug number/moving a specific bug along status-wise) 14:33 drojf jcamins_away: when a search for "new" bugs shows "This result was limited to 500 bugs" something is definitely wrong 14:34 drojf 1614 bugs found. 14:34 jcamins_away Exactly. 14:34 * jcamins_away goes to find out which doorman is on duty. 14:34 wahanui i already had it that way, jcamins_away. 14:34 cait drojf: ouch!! 14:34 cait I guess ... you limited it to open bugs? 14:35 drojf Status: NEW, REOPENED, ASSIGNED 14:37 cait *sigh* 14:37 cait drojf: one step at a time... 14:38 drojf anything from the old tracker is useless anyway. a lot is reported by dafork™-people or libraries that are not subscribed to the "new" bugzilla anyway. i vote for "close everything that rangi imported from the old tracker immediately" 14:39 drojf the few things that are still valid in koha 3-4 years later will be reported again at some point 14:40 drojf i think i had only two that are still valid of maybe 10 or how many i checked. and checking takes too much time. so screw them all 14:43 drojf i started because i thought it would be nice to get an overview and be able to marc bugs as duplicate. but it is impossible than anyone could know all these bugs 14:45 cait hm that's not true 14:45 cait about the old tracker 14:45 cait and try me about knowing the bugs ;) 14:46 cait sometimes we fix something as a side effect of another 14:46 cait so that's why some of the older bugs might be invalid now 14:46 cait I will check what you did :P 14:49 cait not really :) 14:51 drojf yes. that is the point. koha looks very different now from 2008. do we really want to re-evaluate all that old stuff on terms of koha 2012/13 to see if it is still valid? 14:53 drojf it would take at least one dedicated month's work to go through all the bugs 15:02 drojf http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting,_9_January_2013#Cleaning_bugzilla 15:07 liw jcamins_away, you don't need to have any prior experience in Debian to help the Debian Perl modules packaging team make packages -- if you prepare the package, submit it for review (#debian-perl), and fix any issues, they'll have a Debian developer who'll do the upload for you, sometimes very quickly 15:07 liw jcamins_away, though right now Debian is in freeze, so it might take longer; also, new packages have be manually approvaed by the ftpmaster team, which can also take a few days 15:08 liw jcamins_away, so I say: go for it! and say hi from me to gergor herrimann 15:08 liw gregor, even 15:09 jcamins_away liw: thanks! 15:10 * jcamins_away leaves to spend the day with friends. 15:55 * druthb is about to pull some cookies out of the oven. She'd make someone a great housewife... 18:02 cait drojf: good work - you found some really weird bugs it seems :) 18:07 drojf cait: weird = 10 oldest bugs 18:07 drojf there will be 100 more 18:07 drojf or, 300 18:07 cait weird bugs? 18:07 cait probably 18:07 cait i think 3311 might still be vlaid 18:07 cait hm 18:07 cait maybe not 18:07 cait seems to work :) 18:08 cait cool 18:09 drojf i tried the wizard 18:09 cait yeah me too :) 18:09 cait works nicely now 18:09 drojf i suppose that module looked completely different when that bug was reported 18:09 cait maybe not completely differet, but hte radio buttons probably worked differently 18:10 drojf reported 2009-06-08. has there been a wizard at all back then? 18:10 cait yeah 18:10 cait they are old 18:10 drojf ah ok. somehow i thought that was more of a recent thing 18:10 drojf nevermind then 18:22 rangi Morning 18:22 wahanui Morning is, like, a state of mind. or whenever the cat wants breakfast 18:23 cait morning rangi 18:23 drojf hey rangi 18:24 rangi Thanks for tidying up old bugs 18:25 cait drojf is cool :) 18:25 cait drojf++ 18:26 drojf meh. funny network 18:27 drojf rangi: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting,_9_January_2013#Cleaning_bugzilla not sure if the mailing list would be a better place for it 18:27 rangi Hmm I think meeting first then mailing list 18:35 cait drojf: I think 3309 is a bug jared found recently 18:35 cait they renamed the column... to follow some new coding guideline and broke it 18:35 cait I bet 18:35 drojf yes i was about to patch that 18:35 drojf the column part 18:35 cait it jsut used to delete them and there is a warning on the page 18:35 cait I think there already is a bug... 18:35 cait was sometimes last week we noticed 18:36 drojf "about to" is maybe a little much. thinking about it and looking for the bug… 18:37 cait hm let me try and find it? 18:39 drojf that would be great :) 18:39 rangi @wunder nzwn 18:39 huginn rangi: The current temperature in Brooklyn, Wellington, New Zealand is 16.5°C (7:38 AM NZDT on December 17, 2012). Conditions: . Humidity: 57%. Dew Point: 8.0°C. Pressure: 30.18 in 1022 hPa (Steady). 18:40 cait @wunder Konstanz 18:40 huginn cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 5.1°C (7:35 PM CET on December 16, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 91%. Dew Point: 4.0°C. Windchill: 5.0°C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Steady). 18:41 drojf @wunder berlin, germany 18:41 huginn drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 5.2°C (7:12 PM CET on December 16, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 91%. Dew Point: 4.0°C. Windchill: 4.0°C. Pressure: 29.71 in 1006 hPa (Steady). 18:41 drojf ha! beat you by .1°C :P 18:42 cait hehe 18:42 drojf you win windchill though 18:43 cait hm I am checking 18:43 cait #koha logs next 18:44 cait and ping jcamins_away 18:45 cait drojf: I must have imagined it.... 18:45 cait *wonders* 18:46 rangi Hehe 18:47 drojf hm. alternative to closing the old things: find a library to sponsor me and i try them one by one, starting at the latest change (like what i did today). i suppose checking everything <2011 takes about 50 hours 18:47 cait :) 18:47 drojf of course that is nothing a library would be interested in… 18:47 rangi That would be cool 18:47 cait maybe we need microfunding or how that is called for you 18:47 rangi I think that's where joining spi would be good 18:48 drojf spi? 18:48 rangi We could collect funding for stuff like that easy 18:48 rangi Software in the public interest 18:48 drojf ah 18:49 cait drojf: I am still quite sure jcamins_away talked about it - so maybe you want to wait until we make sure it's nto doubled up effort? 18:49 rangi It's what debian and postures and others belong to 18:49 rangi Postgres even 18:49 drojf cait: patching the db error is adding 'id_' in one line 18:49 cait right 18:49 rangi Association that has treasurers and bank accounts and not for profit status 18:50 rangi So can handle money etc 18:50 drojf rangi: yeah i read when that came up in koha discussions, just wasn't familiar with the acronym 18:50 drojf err, read about them 18:51 rangi Ah cool 18:51 rangi They are really hands off unless you want them to do something 18:52 rangi I've been an individual member for 2 years now 18:52 rangi My stop bbiab 18:54 drojf rangi: the associated projects list alone makes them very likeable. what is between us and spi? 18:54 drojf s/is/stands/ 18:55 cait a community made decision 18:56 cait and you know how hard they can be to make 18:57 drojf i remember governance discussions on the list and bobs talk at kohacon. i don't see anything happening in between though. is there some kind of decision making process going on or is it just another thing that gets postponed whenever it comes up? 18:57 cait kind of 18:57 cait at least we got gpl3 now 18:58 drojf true. i am not around long enough to remember endless discussions of that before but it sounded like it was a big deal 18:59 slef mainly with a certain company that wanted to set up a puppet foundation... 18:59 slef anyway I'm not here, I'm working ;) 18:59 drojf a certain company that is not part of the community? 18:59 cait late slef 18:59 slef drojf: not any longer, indeed 18:59 drojf so let's get over with it :) 18:59 slef thing is spi is not a substitute for governancwe 19:00 slef we would still need some way to decide what we tell spi to do and/or who tells them that 19:00 drojf no i think that are two different things 19:00 drojf but i learned about spi in that discussion 19:00 slef spi is just a way to hold/traffic assets 19:00 drojf yes 19:00 slef although they'll also run elections if you want 19:01 drojf elections for us? 19:01 slef as they do for oftc I think 19:01 slef yeah 19:01 drojf i see. i think we do ok without that but its always nice to have options 19:02 slef but at the moment, in theory, HLT holds stuff for Koha in a sort of SPI-like laissez-faire way 19:02 slef not sure what's the status there 19:02 drojf i wonder what the trademark status is, too 19:02 slef stuff I'd like to fix but bleeeeah time 19:02 drojf in the HLT area 19:02 slef There Is No Trademark ;) 19:02 slef argh! blue pill! blue pill! 19:03 drojf lol 19:03 * slef returns to headbanging against overduerules 19:03 cait slef:i warned you 19:04 drojf slef: are you messing with the messaging thing a lot? 19:08 slef drojf: no, only overduerules 19:08 slef drojf: I'm staying out of C4::Letters so it should be forward-compatible 19:08 cait slef: but aren't thy about sending overdues? :) 19:08 cait ah 19:09 slef I'm in kohastructure.sql, updatedatabase.pl, overduerules.pl, overduerules.tt and overdue_notices.pl 19:10 drojf slef: i play with letters.pm for email encryption so please don't completely reorganise it ;) 19:10 slef like jcamins_away said, I'm leaving the UI alone for the basic enh 19:10 slef my enh enh messes it up 19:10 * slef goes to post this on bugzilla while he thinks of it 19:11 slef I love bugzilla quotes "<owen> I'm a crazed branch-creating maniac" 19:11 slef hmmm opinion please! 19:11 rangi back 19:11 slef Is this Architecture, internals and plumbing, or database? 19:12 cait what exactly are you doing? 19:12 slef restructuring the overduerules table to allow future (like 2 hours) extension 19:13 cait hm 19:13 cait architecture should be ok then I guess 19:13 rangi that 19:13 rangi or patrons 19:15 cait there is also one for notices I think 19:16 drojf i'm leaving for tonight, but i leave you with the threat of putting more things on the irc agenda, like discussions opf things like spi and governance. not sure when i take the time to look up the old stuff and write about it but expect me to be bored under the christmas tree at some point :P 19:16 cait lol 19:16 cait hope you show up again before christmas :) 19:17 slef WE ALWAYS PUT A BOARD UNDER THE CRHISTMAS TREE TOO!!!1! 19:17 cait good morning kathryn 19:17 kathryn hi cait! :) 19:18 slef hmmm there's Overdues.pm I'd not spotted 19:18 * slef checks it 19:19 slef Bug 9296 has been added to the database 19:19 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9296 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, mjr, ASSIGNED , overduerules table needs restructuring to allow future extension 19:24 slef my $query = qq|SELECT debarred$notify_level FROM overduerules WHERE categorycode=?|; 19:24 * slef cries 19:24 cait interesting 19:24 wahanui interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad 19:24 cait isn't notify_level dead code? 19:25 slef no, it's a parameter to the function 19:25 cait hm we got a new dependency 19:25 cait ? 19:25 cait Can't locate String/Random.pm in 19:26 cait hm self registration probably 19:26 slef cait: it's interpolating an arbitrary (as far as the module author knows) variable into SQL... that's how to help a injection security vulnerability occur 19:26 cait apart from that slef i think you should check if the notify_level is still used in the db/code 19:27 slef it'll be 1, 2 or 3 19:27 slef but my rewrite will kill it 19:27 rangi cait: yep it is self registration 19:27 slef as it's Evil, Bad and Wrong 19:27 cait slef: I am curious about this 19:28 slef cait: it's $notify_level, in C4/Overdues.pm 19:28 cait we gotnotify level in someplaces in the ui - but it's always empty 19:28 slef although I am working on 3.8.x at the moment for this client 19:28 slef but maybe it's gone from master 19:28 cait since... forever 19:28 cait and you are really sure? 19:29 slef cait: sounds like a hangover... it's in the code, as 1 2 3... but maybe it's gone from the UI 19:29 slef cait: and the pl scripts are generating it and ignoring the UI... so no injection security vulnerability this time, just now 19:29 cait slef: does your 3.8 have soemthing in table notifys? 19:29 slef cait: look in Overdues.pm for yourself 19:29 cait slef: I know it's there 19:29 cait but I looked at it quite some time ago and found it to be dead 19:29 slef cait: no, but that's using overduerules table 19:30 slef cait: ah maybe nothing calls that function. I'd not noticed it before. Maybe half-finished rewrite of overdue_notices.pl? 19:30 cait no I think it's much older 19:30 * slef searches 19:31 slef cait: it's only used internally in Overdues.pm and by KohaTest. Phew. 19:31 cait ah 19:32 slef cait: you know, we really should find some developers who know this code. ;-) 19:32 cait don't look at me 19:32 cait it predates my koha involvement 19:32 cait a lot 19:32 slef not mine 19:32 slef doesn't mean I remember it ;) 19:33 slef I think 10 years in 10 minutes sums up the futility of trying to understand it all 19:33 slef like bees in a hive 19:33 cait I like being a little bee in the swarm :) 19:36 slef I just like being a little B 19:36 * slef wonders how many 2L English-speakers will get that 19:37 slef cait: S says hello 19:37 * cait waves back to S 19:38 slef S brandishes a knife at you... I think it was a wave, but she's cooking 19:38 cait lol 19:38 cait ok :) 19:40 slef [off] now I'm being told off for describing everything that's going on... oh wait... 19:42 cait if you get told off you probably deserve it ;) 19:42 * cait sides with S 19:48 cait hm ok 19:48 cait I got a question 19:49 * wizzyrea waves 19:49 cait Yes, Check Out (Y) - shouldn#t something happen when I press Y? 19:49 cait hi wizzyrea :) 19:49 cait and yes, it's wrong capitalization 19:53 slef I think so... if not, might be a javascript fu 19:53 drojf shen is the newsletter stuff due? 20th? 19:53 slef wizzyrea: S waves to you 19:53 drojf s/shen/when/ 19:53 slef drojf: RTFEmail 19:53 drojf meh 19:53 slef but yes, I think this month's deadline is earlier 19:54 drojf slef: you get your FEmail when i manage to write for that :P 19:54 slef Koha - developed with Gin! 19:54 slef I'm working from the bar in the ktichen this evning 19:54 slef you might want to check the resultant patches more closely than usual 19:54 drojf was hoping to get more feedback but i suppose i have to deal with 3 (!) people answering a short survey after a free workshop 19:54 slef drojf: out of? 19:55 slef also, "what's in it for them?" 19:55 slef and have you mailed them 5 times yet? ;-) 19:55 drojf [off] i think 9 registered+2+2. the last +2 run off after half an hour (damn non-techie librarians) 19:56 slef [off] not a bad response rate... 5% is average for surveys... this has some guilt so expect 15%... you've double that 19:56 drojf slef: no, but i will put the download link for the script in the "post-limesurvey-url" the next time 19:57 slef heheh 19:57 slef drojf: try guilt-tripping them. Suggest if you don't get feedback, there might be no future workshops 19:58 drojf [off] hahaha. i sugested if they offer too much positive feedback, there will be _paid_ workshops 19:58 cait drojf: or mail them all and ask for personal feedback 19:58 slef drojf: doh! 20:05 drojf [off] no seriously it was mainly about rating the workshop we did and what they would want to learn about in the future. paid workshops was the last question i think. and you could vote 'no' on that of course. it is interesting to see how much people would like to know everything about koha "but please have more workshops for free, doing that on your weekend is a great time." 20:06 * cait nods 20:06 cait are you really surprised? 20:07 drojf no, i'm not 20:07 drojf and i did that just for fun 20:08 drojf [off] still it is weird to see what people expect to get for free once you give them "the little finger" (whatever that is english) 20:09 tweetbot` [off] twitter: @ranginui: "@PeepsNetwork @sallyheroes @BeezilBeard oops a #kohails APP even" 20:09 tweetbot` [off] twitter: @ranginui: "@PeepsNetwork @sallyheroes @BeezilBeard is at an android phone? there's a #kohails for that, you can shelve with it ;-)" 20:09 rangi [off] hence the you must help me now blog post 20:09 rangi that reminds me, i should do a 2012 round up blog post 20:09 drojf [off] rangi: i love that one. and i called somebody out on that at the workshop 20:10 slef [off] yeah, the co-op has started putting grant recipients onto peppercorn contracts so they understand we're not an all-you-can-eat free buffet :-/ 20:10 cait peppercorn contracts? 20:10 slef cait: like 1p/year 20:10 cait and yes, you should, rangi 20:10 cait we love your blog posts 20:10 cait slef: just to make a point? :) 20:11 slef cait: wikipedia probably knows "peppercorn rent" if you want more. 20:11 cait sounds totally reasonable 20:11 slef cait: just so they realise it's not infinite 20:11 cait yeah 20:11 slef used to be a peppercorn cost a fraction of a penny 20:11 cait ah 20:11 slef but the law still respected it as consideration, so there's still a valid contract 20:12 cait in my experience customers that actually pay are nicer and less demanding than those that get your services for free 20:12 cait it's werid 20:12 slef price psychology is very strange 20:12 rangi 81 developers committed stuff to koha this year 20:12 drojf [off] rangi: felt bad afterwards, but i think that had to be done. "BUT... i cannot spend weeks on configuring a library system?!!" -- "if you want to use a professional library system without being a library professional, that is what you do" … was not really appreciated. 20:12 rangi 30 of them for the first time 20:12 cait hm 20:12 rangi thats a pretty sweet stat 20:13 cait what's wrong here? (a little riddle) 20:13 cait name;surname;address1;address2;zipcode;city;country;email;itemcount;itemsinfo 20:13 cait Henry;Acevedo;"c/o Somewhere";"4345 Library Rd.";44224;"Springfield, MA";Germany 20:13 cait oh, now i get it, it only uses "" when it's more than one word 20:13 rangi yep 20:13 cait so maybe nothing is wrong. :) 20:13 slef bbl 20:13 cait why do I only find out after asking the stupid question? 20:14 slef cait: there are not stupid questions 20:14 slef *no 20:14 cait [off] you could also point out that there is a reason all those support vendors do exist 20:14 cait thx slef 20:14 rangi [off] and library degrees 20:14 slef cait: thx Einstein IIRC 20:16 cait [off] good point :) 20:16 drojf library degrees? you mean MARC studies? :P 20:17 cait hehe 20:17 cait @quote random 20:17 huginn cait: Quote #219: "You can't hit a perl module in the face. You can only hit it in its package!" (added by wizzyrea at 03:03 PM, October 10, 2012) 20:17 cait rofl 20:18 drojf lol 20:18 wizzyrea that's a great one. 20:18 drojf i know who said that. to whom 20:18 wizzyrea someone who didn't want me to put their name on it 20:18 drojf but s/he wanted to remain private :P 20:18 * wizzyrea doesn't remember who it was 20:18 cait do i really have to look in the logs and lose qa time? 20:18 drojf i do 20:18 cait or is someone going to tell me 20:18 drojf because it was said to me 20:19 drojf btw, is 'french kohacon' really called that? or is that just a generic name for non-frenchies? 20:20 rangi i think generic for non frenchies 20:21 cait i think it's called symposium 20:21 rangi hmm there are still 14 days of 2012 left 20:21 cait or similar, I don't speak french 20:21 rangi too early for my post? 20:21 cait rangi: hm, don't think so, you could wait if you want, but we are curious 20:21 cait well I am. :) 20:21 rangi :) ill do it today and can update if it changes much 20:23 cait :) 20:24 cait drojf: http://symposium.koha-fr.org/ 20:24 drojf thanks :) so he whole conference is done in french= 20:24 drojf ? 20:25 cait looks like it 20:25 cait :) 20:25 drojf haven't seen a call for papers for that. not that i could read it 20:25 cait hehe 20:25 cait paul told me that it will be in limoges this year 20:25 cait but there seem to be no dates yet 20:25 cait so maybe no cfp 20:27 drojf i see a fixed program for 2012, so i assume somebody should have called for papers 20:27 drojf or isn't that customary in france? 20:27 drojf « Install-Party » Koha. 9h30-12h30. Animation par Guillaume Hatt. - 20:28 drojf if that is going to be anything like ours, they will spend the whole day :P 20:28 cait 2012? 20:28 wahanui well, 2012 is the International Year of Co-operatives http://www.2012.coop/ 20:28 drojf http://symposium.koha-fr.org/?page_id=500 20:28 cait they did maybe... 20:28 drojf pardon my french but Programme du Symposium Koha 2012 20:29 cait past 20:30 drojf oh, right, that year is almost done. i should start counting 20:30 * drojf hides 20:32 * cait sends cookies 20:32 drojf cookies!! :) 20:57 tweetbot` [off] twitter: @ranginui: "2012 and Koha by the numbers http://t.co/fnPPe68s #kohails (if someone can tell me the number of new koha libraries ill add that too)" 21:03 cait yay 21:03 * cait goes reading 21:29 tweetbot` [off] twitter: @kohails: "#kohails 2012 and Koha by the numbers http://t.co/cAdYMUvk" 21:32 eythian hi 21:33 wizzyrea whaddup 21:33 eythian wizzyrea: you have matresses 21:33 eythian well, at least one 21:33 wizzyrea YAY 21:33 wizzyrea :) 21:33 wizzyrea did they impede your getting out? 21:36 eythian No, just saw them as I was heading out, after one of them came up and asked if I was your place. 21:36 eythian (which also happened on Saturday or Sunday or whatever day it was :) 21:36 eythian they seem to just keep on going up the stairs :) 21:37 cait eythian: so you have moved in with the rea's now? 21:37 cait :) 21:37 eythian No, different house 21:38 eythian I'm just further up the hill. 21:38 cait I know :) 21:39 wizzyrea lol. no, get off at the first stop!