Time Nick Message
01:05 * chris_n finds it interesting that he lost his notices history during the upgrade from 3.2 to 3.8
02:18 mtj wooh, go postgres! -> http://developers.slashdot.org/story/12/09/10/2220202/postgresql-92-out-with-greatly-improved-scalability
02:20 jcamins_away mtj: now if only creating users in postgres weren't a horrible nuisance.
02:21 mtj i dont recall it being tricky?
02:26 mtj jcamins_away, im curious - whats the nuisance?
02:57 jcamins_away mtj: you have to su to root in order to create a postgres user.
02:57 * jcamins_away disapproves of root shells.
03:00 jcamins_away mtj: at least, that's what the instructions said. Since setting up postgres was a one-time activity on a development VM, I accepted the instructions at face value.
03:00 mtj hmm, really? i cant believe that...
03:01 mtj http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.0/static/sql-createuser.html
03:02 mtj 'CREATE USER adds a new user to a PostgreSQL …. You must be a database superuser to use this command.'
03:02 jcamins_away mtj: nor could I. But that's what the postgres quickstart doc said. So I followed the instructions, and made a mental note to not configure postgres again until someone pointed out a better quickstart guide.
03:02 jcamins_away Right. According to the quickstart guide, you must su to root in order to login as the database superuser.
03:03 mtj lol, ok
03:03 jcamins_away Thankfully, I have installed postgres on the one VM that needs it. :)
03:07 mtj ftw, heres an example without having to su as root -> http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/howto-add-postgresql-user-account
03:08 mtj oops, i might be wrong about that , even...
03:08 mtj # su - postgres
03:10 jcamins_away Yeah, and the guide said `sudo su - postgres` wouldn't work.
03:10 * jcamins_away shrugs
03:10 jcamins_away No need for you to spend time researching it.
03:11 jcamins_away I didn't destroy my system with the root shell, so no harm done. :)
03:11 mtj well, i just knew i would prove you wrong…. or not :/
03:12 jcamins_away Hehe. Yeah... it's absolutely unbelievable.
03:12 jcamins_away I'm sure there's another way to do it, but there's rather too much documentation to go through when all I want to do is create a user quickly.
03:19 senator jcamins_away: just rolling by, had to defend postgres. yeah that's faulty documentation. you definitely do not need a root shell. sudo su postgres is fine.
03:20 jcamins_away senator: good to know. This was pre-deciding to install Evergreen, or I would've been bugging you about it.
03:23 mtj senator++
03:25 senator koha++ # rise in koha/evergreen community cross-pollination lately. much credit to jcamins
03:26 mtj (goods news for when koha gets postgres reintergrated)
03:26 senator (evergreen contributors cannot help but use botanical metaphors)
03:26 jcamins_away Hehe.
03:28 mtj oooh, random hail in wgtn!
03:31 ibeardslee and this morning was beautiful and sunny and I thought 'I don't need the rain jacket today'
03:59 Oak Ahoy me hearties
04:00 bag heya Oak
04:06 Oak heya bag :)
04:15 rangi eek bug 8753
04:15 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8753 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , Add forgot password link to OPAC
05:07 mtj hmm, i'd like to see a screnshot of that bug...
05:10 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
05:10 rangi @wunder nzwn
05:10 huginn rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 8.0°C (4:00 PM NZST on September 11, 2012). Conditions: Light Rain Showers. Humidity: 71%. Dew Point: 3.0°C. Windchill: 3.0°C. Pressure: 29.77 in 1008 hPa (Rising).
05:10 mtompset Greetings, rangi.
06:26 alex_a bonjour!
06:44 reiveune hello
06:44 wahanui que tal, reiveune
07:01 mveron Good morning #koha
07:06 matts hi !
07:21 mtompset Greetings, #koha...
07:27 magnuse bbl
07:50 mtompset Greetings again, #koha.
07:51 mtompset Anyone have an opinion on the best way to set environment variables which is generally generic?
07:51 mtompset That is... I logout, login in, and the variables just happen to be set.
07:52 rangi there is no generic way, it depends entirely on what shell people use
07:53 mtompset :( That's a lousy reality.
07:54 rangi you are best to give an example for bash, as thats probably the most common shell
07:54 rangi people using other ones probably know how to set them
07:54 mtompset In which case an /etc/profile.d/koha_env.sh is an okay idea?
07:55 rangi not /etc
07:55 eythian mtompset: system-wide variables?>
07:56 eythian or just in general?
07:56 mtompset I'm trying to clean up the last part of the Ubuntu docs before de-tar-ifying them.
07:56 kf hey eythian
07:56 eythian hi kf
07:56 mtompset And it was saying to put something in /etc/bash.bashrc.local
07:56 mtompset But that isn't even called.
07:56 kf eythian: the nice weather returned :)
07:56 mtompset (it is in other OS's)
07:57 kf eythian: seems Konstanz is finally over you ;)
07:57 eythian mtompset: so you want system-wide?
07:57 mtompset Yes, because then it should work in cron, or a user shell.
07:57 eythian because /etc/environment
07:57 eythian kf: not so awesome here, alas
07:57 eythian @wunder den haag
07:57 huginn eythian: The current temperature in Green Valley Ranch Golf Club, Denver, Colorado is 10.0°C (1:55 AM MDT on September 11, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 75%. Dew Point: 6.0°C. Pressure: 29.75 in 1008 hPa (Falling).
07:57 eythian that is not what I asked for
07:58 kf @wunder Konstanz
07:58 huginn kf: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 18.2°C (9:55 AM CEST on September 11, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 90%. Dew Point: 17.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady).
07:59 mtompset Does /etc/environment work on Debian too?
08:00 eythian @wunder the hague
08:00 huginn eythian: The current temperature in Den Haag, Den Haag, Netherlands is 17.4°C (9:50 AM CEST on September 11, 2012). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 84%. Dew Point: 15.0°C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010 hPa (Steady).
08:00 eythian mtompset: it works on Ubuntu, probably debian too
08:15 mtompset I'll test that theory later. I'm about to test if /etc/environment affects cron.d --- Ooooo! It did. :)
08:16 mtompset I'm grabbing the latest Debian netinstall ISO.
08:33 mtompset Is there an optimized git clone command that doesn't download 400MB+ the first time?
08:34 mtompset git clone git://git.koha-community.org/koha.git kohaclone <--- really big initial download.
08:37 rangi depends what you want to do with it
08:37 rangi if you want to use it for dev .. which is really all you would want to do with the git repo .. then you need it all
08:38 rangi but you could use --depth to get a shallower history ...
08:38 rangi but you cant push from it, or clone from it
08:39 rangi so if you only wanted the recent history, you could do that, i wouldnt tell people to do that though unless they knew their way around git very well
08:51 mtompset That's what I thought. :(
08:55 drojf good day #koha
08:56 rangi hi drojf
08:56 drojf hey rangi
09:00 drojf internet sucky, brb
09:02 mtompset Hate when the internet connectivity is sucky.
09:02 mtompset Greetings, drojf.
09:02 slef mtompset: I get DSL back today
09:02 drojf hey mtompset
09:02 wahanui mtompset is trying to do a variety of projects in less than three months!
09:02 slef what are GMDs?
09:02 mtompset I should change that to two. :)
09:03 mtompset Genetically Modified Devils?
09:03 mtompset Yes, that was a totally random guess.
09:03 mtompset Gifts of Mass Destruction. :)
09:03 drojf slef: "real" internet, congratulations. that took a while
09:04 slef mtompset: it's related to RDA, so you may be closer than the "real" answer.
09:04 slef drojf: British Telecon (who have a monopoly on the last mile in most places) blamed the Olympics and Paralympics.
09:04 kf slef: where did you meet GMDs? because I ran into some of those during a migration recently...
09:04 slef drojf: while running TV ads telling us how BT was bringing the nation together to follow the olympics.
09:05 slef kf: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/RDA#From_David_Schuster
09:05 drojf ah makes sense. all these sports people that and fans that needed their own DSL while in the UK :D
09:05 mtompset Perhaps Generic Media Descriptor?
09:05 mtompset http://cataids.wordpress.com/2009/07/15/how-rda-will-affect-gmd/
09:06 * slef does the login shuffle to expand GMD on first use on the wiki page
09:06 kf slef: hm not totally sure, but maybe something about the new way to catalog media types and such? :(
09:07 slef kf: mtompset: links to http://www.loc.gov/marc/changes-rda-338.html which looks authoritative
09:09 drojf the loc website does not load for me. my internet seems to be unhappy for some reason
09:09 slef wahanui: RDA?
09:09 wahanui RDA is probably a room in a twisty maze of standards
09:09 slef Resource Description and Access
09:09 slef wahanui: FRBR?
09:09 wahanui no idea, slef
09:10 slef wahanui: you are not much good at this, are you?
09:10 wahanui slef: i don't know
09:10 mtompset maze?
09:10 mtompset standards?
09:10 wahanui standards are what you use to hold up a fence.
09:11 slef wahanui: FRBR is Functional Requirements for Bibliographic Records
09:11 wahanui OK, slef.
09:11 eythian least helpful acronym expansion ever
09:12 slef eythian: the rest of the definition I've got is "a conceptual entity-relationship model developed by the International Federation of Library Associations and Institutions (IFLA) that relates user tasks of retrieval and access in online library catalogues and bibliographic databases from a user’s perspective. It represents a more holistic approach"
09:12 slef eythian: which doesn't really add much...
09:12 eythian but it's holistic
09:12 eythian oh, there's an alarm going here that everyone is ignoring.
09:12 eythian I suppose I should ignore it too
09:13 eythian oh it stopped
09:13 eythian no, false alarm, it's back again.
09:13 slef eythian: can I describe it as a link to the Whole Sort of General Mish Mash?
09:13 eythian it would seem to be appropriate
09:13 slef eythian: I think having a library park at the end of my drive was a better unexpected interruption
09:14 eythian Well, I'm in a library.
09:24 eythian http://www.mightyape.co.nz/product/Worlds-Longest-Beard/20219413/?nt=1
09:27 vfernandes hi guys
09:28 vfernandes anyone here has experience in URL rewrite in apache?
09:28 slef vfernandes: yes, far too much.
09:28 slef first question
09:28 wahanui "What are you trying to do?" "What is the goal?" or "What problem are you experiencing?"
09:30 mtompset vfernandes, if you are asking because of a reverse proxy, you need to pass the Fully Qualified Domain Name, not a shortened version.
09:35 vfernandes what I need is simple... a need to redirect opac-main.pl?logout=1 to opac-search.pl
09:35 eythian vfernandes: do you need it to run opac-main.pl first?
09:36 eythian because if not, that should be simple enough to not need a rewrite.
09:36 eythian Just a redirect
09:36 vfernandes ok but the user needs to be logout
09:36 vfernandes so If thing the opac-main.pl needs to run
09:36 vfernandes *I think
09:37 eythian OK.
09:37 mtompset So you allow users to log in?
09:37 eythian that's harder then
09:37 eythian The best way (arguably) would be to create a syspref that is "URL to redirect to after logout"
09:38 eythian which would be generally useful for people who'd like to send the browser back to a portal or somethibng
09:39 vfernandes the objective is to "remove" the OPAC main page... the users can login but when he log outs its redirect to the OPAC main page
09:39 vfernandes http://catalogo.ubi.pt
09:39 eythian --\ Packages being removed because they are no longer used (3)
09:39 eythian libhtml-template-pro-perl
09:39 eythian I like that every time I see it
09:40 eythian vfernandes: how do they log in if you remove the main page, or do you direct them to the login page from somewhere else?
09:40 eythian ah, I see
09:41 eythian in that case, probably a rewrite rule is what you want
09:41 eythian so if it matches exactly .../opac-main.pl, it redirects them away.
09:42 eythian http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/rewrite/remapping.html <-- this should help
09:43 vfernandes I've already saw that page but i can't make it work in the Koha :/
09:45 eythian what happens when you try?
09:47 vfernandes page not found
09:47 eythian RewriteRule ^/cgi-bin/koha/opac-main\.pl$ / [R]
09:47 eythian is what I would expect to work
09:49 eythian what URL does it try when you get the page not found?
09:49 eythian Keep in mind it's also possible to log rewrite operations
09:52 * mtompset grumbles about an "optional" component causing "make test" to fail horribly in a git clone.
09:53 * mtompset tries a git pull to see if there is anything out there.
09:54 * mtompset grumbles and just installs the missing component pondering what to write about this kind of case in the documentation.
09:56 eythian mtompset: if the component isn't really optional, you're better making a patch that changes its status
09:57 mtompset cache-memcached-fast
09:57 mtompset I do believe it is optional.
09:57 mtompset Perhaps a test needs to be moved?
09:57 eythian ah, but it breaks just the tests.
09:57 eythian could be
09:57 eythian I'm not sure if we have a policy for that
09:57 eythian (we certainly should)
09:58 mtompset I'll just blame jcamins_away. ;)
09:58 eythian seems fair
09:58 eythian it's what he gets for being away
09:58 * mtompset likes eythian's perspective. :)
10:02 vfernandes eythian with that rule redirect to cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/index.html/
10:03 eythian curious
10:03 eythian maybe try putting the full http://... bit in
10:09 mtompset Would a ,L be useful?
10:10 eythian acutally, in that case, probably yes
10:10 eythian acutally is a new word I just invented.
10:12 mtompset acutally?
10:12 wahanui well, acutally is a new word I just invented.
10:12 * mtompset laughs.
10:12 drojf http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=acutally
10:14 mtompset not so good.
10:14 kf hi drojf :)
10:14 drojf hi kf :)
10:14 drojf slides?
10:14 wahanui kf should be writing slides
10:14 kf meh.
10:14 kf abstract today
10:14 kf but not much better
10:17 drojf @wunder berlin, germany
10:17 huginn drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 25.6°C (12:12 PM CEST on September 11, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 42%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010 hPa (Steady).
10:18 drojf last summer day. better go to spend it in the office :/
10:19 mtompset Actually, eythian, Member_Attributes test cleanly fails on DBD::Mock not installed.
10:19 mtompset So, perhaps the the test that blew up on missing cache-memcached-fast needs a tweak.
10:19 eythian mtompset: oh, good to know
10:19 eythian yeah
10:19 eythian that seems quite plausible
10:22 mtompset -- or not. :(
10:22 mtompset It caught the error, but it caused a fail.
10:30 pastebot "mtompset" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "Failed Tests After being forced to install libcache-memcached-fast-perl" (27 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/168
10:33 mtompset Installed libdbd-mock-perl and re-runnning.
10:56 mtompset Good. make test passed.
11:04 mtompset Is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Background_indexing_with_Zebra not recommended?
11:04 mtompset The packages use cron by default.
11:20 eythian the background indexing thing is still fairly new
11:21 eythian packages tend to lag a bit behind the implementation of things like that, unless the person putting them in Koha adds package support themselves. Otherwise it's up to someone else to need it enough to implement it.
11:36 mtompset I personally like vi. The instructions currently say gedit. What is a good text-only editor that would likely be installed by default on Ubuntu and Debian that doesn't have a major learning curve?
11:37 mtompset nano?
11:37 eythian My only concern with gedit is that it shouldn't be installed on a server
11:38 eythian whereas I'm pretty sure nano is by default, on debian at least.
11:38 eythian Typically it's the first thing I remove.
11:40 mtompset Well, the instructions do say to swap 'nano' for your favorite editor at the top.
11:41 mtompset I'm just trying to put something reasonable for those who aren't familiar with any editors by default and would not likely remove nano.
11:41 mtompset gedit makes no sense ifthe instructions say we recommend a server edition of ubuntu.
11:54 eythian yeah
11:55 eythian I'd say nano would be fine, and it has little onscreen help to drive it.
12:00 Barrc Is it just me that manages to create a site/database of "koha_koha" when using "koha-create --create-db koha" ?? Shouldn't it created as just "koha" !?
12:01 Oak i think 'koha-' is the db prefix the script adds
12:02 jcamins_away Barrc: Oak is correct. That is by design.
12:03 Barrc Right - I though I was doing something silly! Just out of curiosity, why is it so?
12:03 jcamins_away So that the packages don't clobber your existing data.
12:03 jcamins_away That would be bad.
12:03 jcamins_away :)
12:04 Barrc But on the downside - it doesn't name your database as specified! Could we check for "clobber" before creation!?
12:05 jcamins_away koha-create is intended to create a Koha instance, not a database.
12:05 Oak Barrc, if you ever get to use cPanel or Site5 hosting accounts, their scripts also add a db prefix whenever you create a new database.
12:05 jcamins I can't see any benefit to not using a prefix, and lots of potential disadvantages.
12:05 Oak there must some good reason for this i'm sure. let me google that.
12:06 Barrc jcamins: But it does create an empty db called koha_koha. There is no bother changing it, I was just curious why the name is prefaced!
12:07 jcamins Barrc: several reasons, just off the top of my head:
12:07 Barrc The preface would be redundant too, wouldn't it, if it was the same each instance!
12:07 jcamins 1) you know what the database is for. Most libraries do not use "koha" as an instance name.
12:07 jcamins Also, instance names appear in the DNS generally.
12:08 Oak makes sence...
12:08 Barrc Do most signal site (instance) Koha's not use koha as their db name?
12:08 Barrc Not that any of this really matters - I am just curious is all!
12:09 Barrc single
12:11 jcamins So if you want the DNS to be archives.whatever.com, and you also have a program for storing your archives database that you set up first, you now have a problem.
12:11 jcamins I wouldn't think so.
12:11 jcamins Much better to use the name of your institution.
12:11 jcamins That said, most places use "library"
12:11 jcamins (in my experience)
12:11 jcamins 2) as I said, clobbering data is bad, and predictability is good.
12:12 Barrc OK - makes sense. I haven't installed any multi database sites, all our Koha sites are on individual VMs running one sole website - good to know though!
12:12 jcamins 3) if you show up and say "my predecessor set up a Koha installation using packages, but I accidentally deleted /etc/koha/*" right now we can probably tell you with some certainty where the data is. With a different naming scheme, we'd have to give several places to check (a problem because most people using Koha for the first time probably don't know how to use MySQL).
12:17 * mtompset nods, "We use 'library'."
12:20 kf hi jcamins
12:20 mtompset Does the documentation mention that the create-db relates to the URL that is being expected?
12:21 jcamins mtompset: yes.
12:22 mtompset I'm almost finished pass 1 of cleaning up the ubuntu documentation.
12:22 eythian I tend to use the name of the organisation
12:22 eythian it also makes migrating data to a shared testing environment that little bit easier.
12:23 oleonard Hi #koha
12:24 kf hi oleonard and paul_p
12:25 mtompset Greetings, oleonard and paul_p
12:25 mtompset Greetings, julian_m. :)
12:25 * paul_p not really here, at a training day
12:26 julian_m hello mtompset
12:26 * magnuse does not really wave to paul_p
12:26 * mtompset laughs, "Good one, magnuse."
12:26 magnuse :-)
12:26 * druthb waves to the not-Paul, too.
12:33 jcamins oleonard: I'm pretty sure rangi's meme was intended in agreement.
12:33 oleonard Just wanted to make sure
12:35 oleonard I considered suggesting a solution that involved the circ and fine rules matrix, but not only did that not seem to fit well but changes to that never seem to happen [well]
12:36 * jcamins is pro-syspref.
12:37 * kf is pro-syspref too
12:37 kf and I agree with jcamins about rangi's meme :)
12:40 druthb rangi's meme?
12:40 magnuse rangi's meme?
12:42 oleonard His comment on Bug 8236
12:42 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8236 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha, Failed QA , Prevent renewing if overdue or restriction
12:43 druthb lulz
12:44 magnuse tee hee
12:44 tcohen moooorning #koha
12:45 mtompset Oh that is awesome.
12:45 mtompset rangi++ # loved the syspref meme.
12:46 mtompset Greetings, tcohen.
12:46 tcohen rangi++
12:59 magnuse rangi++ (but can't really see alternatives to sysprefs in a lot of situations)
12:59 jcamins magnuse: forcing a change on everyone?
13:00 magnuse yeah, we can't do that
13:00 jcamins If we don't syspref things we will.
13:00 magnuse yup, that's why sysprefs are necessary, even if they sometimes appear as necessary evils...
13:02 * jcamins doesn't have any objection to syspref proliferation.
13:03 magnuse cool
13:05 mtompset But then they need to be documented well, so people remember why they were added and what they are for :)
13:08 magnuse sure
13:08 magnuse and checking that the sysprefs "make sense" is probably a good idea
13:09 magnuse guess we already have the beginnings of that in the "system information" tab under "about Koha"
13:12 mtompset okay... jcamins, you don't have a master branch... what commands would you use to force a branch to track 3.8.x?
13:12 jcamins git checkout -b bug_whatever origin/3.8.x
13:13 mtompset so: git checkout -b my_3.8.x origin/3.8.x
13:13 mtompset git branch -D master
13:13 jcamins That works too.
13:13 jcamins I wouldn't check out a plain 3.8.x branch either.
13:14 mtompset so: git checkout -b my_3.8.4 origin/3.8.4
13:14 mtompset git branch -D master
13:14 jcamins No, if you're checking out a version, just use the tag.
13:14 jcamins git checkout v3.08.04
13:15 mtompset so: git checkout v3.08.04
13:15 mtompset git branch -D master
13:15 jcamins If you're not doing development, you can safely leave the master branch.
13:16 mtompset So, do a "standard" install using a git repo?
13:16 magnuse huh, why delete master?
13:17 oleonard To stick it to the man
13:18 jcamins magnuse: because if you leave the master branch, you greatly increase the chance of ending up with an out-of-date topic branch.
13:18 mtompset what's a topic branch?
13:18 magnuse uh huh, if you say so... ;-)
13:19 jcamins magnuse: if you don't ever end up with out-of-date branches while using a local master, then there's no reason to delete it.
13:19 jcamins Also, with a local master you greatly increase the chance of accidentally committing to it.
13:20 * mtompset nods, "Yep."
13:20 magnuse "Topic branches are typically lightweight branches that you create locally and that have a name that is meaningful for you. They are where you might do work for a bug fix or feature (they're also called feature branches) that is expected to take some time to complete." http://stackoverflow.com/questions/284514/what-is-a-git-topic-branch
13:21 mtompset So, let's say someone does the "git checkout v3.08.04"
13:22 mtompset Is the assumption they will answer "dev" to "perl Makefile.PL"?
13:22 jcamins It's up to them.
13:22 jcamins If they want a dev install, yes.
13:22 jcamins Otherwise, no.
13:22 mtompset Hmm....
13:23 jcamins I'd say if you're doing a standard install you might as well just download the tarball, though.
13:23 jcamins Or, much better, use packages.
13:24 mtompset Wouldn't a "git checkout v3.08.05" be faster than grabbing the tarball if you already have 3.08.04 checked out?
13:25 jcamins Probably, but why would you have a git checkout?
13:25 tcohen i'd like to vote for the removal of the discouraged flag for tarball install in the docs
13:26 * mtompset chuckles.
13:26 mtompset Sorry, tcohen. mtj and I had a chat yesterday.
13:26 jcamins tcohen: why? Packages are much easier to support.
13:26 mtompset Anything resembling a tarball install will be hidden far away from users.
13:27 mtompset I hope to hide the tarball instructions on the Wiki at least.
13:27 mtompset But that hasn't been confirmed or denied yet.
13:28 mtompset Because the goal is Wiki --> INSTALL.OS file
13:28 mtompset and then Documentation generated from Wiki into git repo.
13:29 mtompset And then Wiki generated from git repo source.
13:30 mtompset Which means the tarball instructions may get hidden into the repo, but not be put out in a Wiki or INSTALL.OS format.
13:30 Barrc mtompset: personally, I wouldn't be too quick to hide the tarball instructions. Granted, they may generate more questions, but at the very least it gives a good overall view of how Koha hangs together
13:30 Barrc more so than install from packages does
13:31 mtompset Yes, but the question is: what is our role? education or support?
13:31 mtompset support is easier with packages.
13:31 Barrc Yep - agreed.
13:31 Barrc However.....
13:33 Barrc non sys admins (in the library world) tend to like the idea of seeing what is going on - especially if they have (or are about to) switched from a 'closed-source' solution.
13:34 Barrc I know a fair few library users (mid range tech abilities) that got Koha down (tarball) and played with it before coming near us. They seemed to really like the idea of it being available - packages install might not be a transparent
13:34 mtompset That may be true, but the problem is... forgive the vulgarity of the meme, but sometimes people are: http://weknowmemes.com/2012/07/askhole/
13:35 Barrc Just my 2 cents is all .....
13:35 mtompset Also, but using packages... you save disk space by not having to compile it yourself.
13:35 mtompset ^but^by^
13:36 mtompset I totally understand where you are coming from. I like it myself. However, given my limited work time frame. Packages are really my only option on a forward basis.
13:36 Barrc I am all for packages.......I would just suggest maybe adding a disclaimer to the tarball install docs instead of hiding them!
13:36 mtompset People don't read disclaimers.
13:37 Barrc That is mostly true!
13:37 mtompset Have you ever clicked Next without reading the End User License Agreement?
13:37 wizzyrea ^^
13:37 Barrc Ha - I would still be reading some of them if I didn't!
13:38 mtompset I know, but that proves people are in a rush to accomplish what they want, and how they figure it will work.
13:38 mtompset Giving a tarball to a novice is like handing a loaded gun to a baby.
13:38 wizzyrea also I know of lots of librarians, non tech, who just want to try something out, and don't want to screw around with why the FFFF zebra doesn't work
13:39 wizzyrea so there are both ends of that spectrum
13:39 wizzyrea an
13:39 wizzyrea d
13:39 wizzyrea
13:39 Barrc Yep, I agree ye......
13:39 wizzyrea packages are better for I'd say 80% of "average" users
13:39 mtompset Yes, both ends of the spectrum exist.
13:40 wizzyrea and if you want to do a tarball install, you should have to go looking for *that*
13:40 wizzyrea not looking for how to use the packages.
13:40 wizzyrea because I think most people should be using packages.
13:40 Barrc I do to - I like the part about having to look for them. I wouldn't like them to be removed completely though!
13:41 wizzyrea no, tarball instructions should never be removed completely - but the install.* files should tell us how to do packages
13:42 wizzyrea and install.*.advanced should tell you how to do it from the tarball
13:43 Barrc the install files in the tarball -:)
13:44 mtompset I'm not sure putting an INSTALL.OS.advanced is a good idea.
13:44 mtompset Sometime people think more highly of themselves than they should.
13:45 mtompset tarball instructions for debian-based OS' make no sense in general. tarball instructions for RPM-based ones, however, make complete sense.
13:46 mtompset Which leads to the problem of people following the Fedora instructions for an Ubuntu Install (for example). ;)
13:49 mtompset Okay... speaking of instructions... I'm doing some serious editing. And I can't make sense of Appendix C.
13:49 mtompset http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_Ubuntu#Appendix_C
13:50 mtompset Earlier in the instructions it says: "See Appendix C for instructions and notes on installing Koha to a second machine that is pointing to the same database as a current machine with Koha installed."
13:50 mtompset Can someone confirm that the appendix does no such thing?
13:51 mtompset I'd like to axe it.
14:47 wizzyrea ooh, language quality game for koha
14:47 kf hm?
14:47 wizzyrea apparently, for windows
14:48 wizzyrea MS has a game that they use between their global offices
14:48 wizzyrea that helps with improving the quality of the localizations
14:48 wizzyrea localisations :P
14:48 wizzyrea and the offices compete.
14:49 mtompset link?
14:49 wahanui link is right, but the website is gone, apparently
14:49 wizzyrea 4500 participants reviewed over 500k dialog boxes, with 6700 bugs reported
14:49 wizzyrea no link, i'm taking a gamification course ;)
14:49 wizzyrea it's part of the lecture
14:49 kf ah
14:49 kf coursera?
14:49 kf or something that sounds similar?
14:49 mtompset course link? ;)
14:49 wizzyrea yep :)
14:49 kf I have read about this - funny :)
14:50 kf is it any good? :)
14:50 mtompset By the way, greetings, wizzyrea. :)
14:50 wizzyrea www.coursera.org
14:50 wizzyrea hello :)
14:50 bag good morning
14:50 wizzyrea mornin.
14:50 mtompset Greetings, bag.
14:50 wizzyrea I have to give a talk on gamification in libraries later this week.
14:51 wizzyrea I'm doing research.
14:51 wizzyrea a
14:51 wizzyrea among other things
14:51 * oleonard can't believe he missed his chance to take Introduction to Computational Finance and Financial Econometrics!
14:51 wizzyrea LOL
14:51 mtompset Sounds intriguing?
14:51 kf wizzyrea: I guess you already checked the wiki page?
14:52 wizzyrea kf: I wrote quite a bit of that. Lol.
14:52 wizzyrea ^.^
14:52 kf yeah, and you didn>'t forget you did :)
14:52 wizzyrea hehe no
14:52 wizzyrea this talk is a little more generalized than that
14:53 wizzyrea not just games in the catalog, but other games you can do in the library
14:53 mtompset ARG! Now I have to ponder networking issues instructions?!
14:53 mtompset One last section before I can start the AXE process.
14:54 wizzyrea heh
14:54 wizzyrea brb sharpening pencil
14:54 mtompset people still use those?
14:55 Shane-S I am an It director with an andriod, ipad, Macbook Pro, MacBook Air, and a Desktop that is comparable to a server...yet I still go everywhere with a notepad and pen/pencil :)
14:56 Shane-S I think it is because I never need a power button, and unlock swipe or button, and the sun's glare is never a problem
14:57 mtompset Are you sure it isn't because cursive writing is a hidden language sceme to the younger generation? ;)
14:57 mtompset scheme.
15:03 wizzyrea lol
15:03 wizzyrea srs that made me laugh.
15:03 Shane-S never been a fan of cursive can't read it :p
15:04 mtompset Depends on whose handwriting. :)
15:04 Shane-S my own ....lol
15:04 * mtompset laughs, "I know people like that."
15:11 kf drojf: still around?
15:12 drojf kf: leaving now
15:12 drojf why?
15:13 kf pm
15:16 kf leaving too :) bye all1
15:20 reiveune bye
15:46 ala_3vo Hello #koha
15:47 ala_3vo I wondering if anyone had heard about this RDA and how it will affect the MARC records.
15:48 jcamins ala_3vo: not much, really.
15:49 jcamins As libraries find they want RDA-specific fields to show up, they'll no doubt be added.
15:51 jcamins But RDA is just a different bonnet worn by the same muddy pig.
15:51 jcamins Ooh, I like that.
15:51 jcamins Very evocative.
15:51 oleonard http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YV37KJUqpNI/Tz5zayGP1YI/AAAAAAAAAvY/wGV5RP1i-0w/s1600/Pigheaded_ladydetail1.jpg
15:51 ala_3vo well, this will certainly affect the copy cataloging as it is slowly being converted from AACR2 to RDA
15:52 jcamins ala_3vo: I don't see how it will make any difference, no.
15:52 jcamins Fields that are missing will be added- when they're missed.
15:53 jcamins MARC is MARC, so there is no need for change on the backend.
15:53 jcamins The frameworks being out of date is an issue, but that was an issue well before RDA was adopted.
15:58 jcamins ala_3vo: is there something specific you're running into problems with?
16:03 * mtompset smirks, "You scared him off with reality, jcamins."
16:04 oleonard I think it was the pig.
16:04 cait jcamins: i still want to work on the frameworks :( but so many things to be sorted out first *frustrated*
16:04 mtompset Yes, yes that is scary.
16:04 cait reality?
16:04 * cait should go and shop for real food
16:04 cait bbl
16:04 jcamins cait: muddy pigs in bonnets.
16:04 mtompset take care, cait.
16:04 cait jcamins: ?
16:05 mtompset that's the reality of RDA. :)
16:05 jcamins cait: reality. That's what MARC+RDA is. A muddy pig in a bonnet. :)
16:06 bag heh muddy pigs
16:06 cait ih
16:06 mtompset oleonard: regarding the failed qa. Did my replying comments make sense?
16:07 oleonard Uh, no, sorry :|
16:07 oleonard I still don't understand why you don't change the ID of the element and then change the ID in the CSS
16:07 mtompset Because the ID in the CSS isn't used.
16:08 mtompset you need to have ".clearfix #login" for it to be used.
16:08 mtompset And changing the name causes the inherited values to not be inherited any more.
16:08 mtompset I was using Firebug in Firefox.
16:09 mtompset The lines of code that exist now for #login are not used.
16:09 oleonard #login in staff-global.css? That is used on every page in the staff client.
16:09 mtompset They would be used if it said ".clearfix #login".
16:09 mtompset I know...
16:09 mtompset But the reason it works is because it is getting it from yui.
16:10 oleonard Sorry, I think you're wrong.
16:10 mtompset Feel free to check.
16:10 oleonard If I take out the #login declaration, the layout breaks.
16:11 mtompset what browser?
16:11 wahanui it has been said that browser is UNIMARC-only.
16:11 oleonard Firefox.
16:11 wahanui rumour has it firefox is koha's preferred browser
16:11 mtompset That's the confusing part, I think... position is not absolute.
16:11 oleonard ?
16:12 mtompset The definition says absolute, right?
16:12 mtompset But firebug doesn't show absolute.
16:12 oleonard Yes
16:12 jcamins forget browser
16:12 wahanui jcamins: I forgot browser
16:13 oleonard Firebug says #login { position: absolute; right: 0.5em; }
16:13 mtompset Should I attached failed tests too and include all the steps?
16:13 mtompset Why doesn't it in mine?!
16:13 jcamins mtompset: custom CSS?
16:14 oleonard Are you looking at the login page? Or a page in the staff client after you have logged in?
16:14 mtompset after I have logged in.
16:14 oleonard And you're looking at <div id="login"> where it shows the branch, your username, etc?
16:14 mtompset Well, not right now, but yes, that is what I looked at.
16:15 mtompset I just did a fresh git install.
16:15 * wizzyrea gets out the popcorn
16:16 mtompset Let me get my networking issues dealt with, and I'll look at it again.
16:16 oleonard Yeah, change <div id="login"> to <div id="login_controls"> Then change the CSS from #login to #login_controls. You're done.
16:17 jcamins What was the problem we were trying to solve?
16:17 oleonard Bug 8339
16:17 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8339 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Failed QA , div id="login" should be id="login_controls" in header.inc
16:17 jcamins Ah.
16:17 jcamins Got it.
16:17 mtompset I'd like to rescue it from failed_qa hell.
16:18 jcamins cm does not require a period, right? Even though it should?
16:18 jcamins (cm = centimeters, not computer modern, for those people who are eythian:)
16:20 oleonard FWIW jcamins : http://stylemanual.ngs.org/home/C/centimeter-cm
16:20 oleonard mtompset: Please try my suggestion
16:20 mtompset I will.
16:20 mtompset Working on networking.
16:20 mtompset But it didn't work before.
16:21 jcamins oleonard: thanks! Usually "cm" appears at the end of a sentence when I'm cataloging, so I wasn't sure.
16:21 wizzyrea oleonard: did it work for you?
16:22 oleonard Yes
16:23 mtompset Which is why I'm confused.
16:24 oleonard mtompset: You could also solve this problem by giving your login form CSS more specificity: #main_auth #login { ... }
16:24 mtompset Like I said ".clearfix #login"
16:24 oleonard ...but the bug is right, we shouldn't reuse the ID if possible.
16:25 oleonard mtompset: You don't have to say ".clearfix #login" because there's no possibility of confusing which element is meant by "#login"
16:25 oleonard There's only one on that page.
16:25 mtompset Yes, but .clearfix isn't defined until later in the CSS file.
16:26 mtompset Anyways...
16:26 mtompset I'm up.
16:26 mtompset Main log in screen... not inheriting from that definition, because of login.css\
16:26 mtompset That's not the problem.
16:26 mtompset logging in.
16:27 mtompset curses to firefox!
16:27 mtompset between 14 and 15 they must have fixed it.
16:28 mtompset Okay, your suggestion will work.
16:29 jcamins It could also have been stale CSS.
16:29 mtompset stale?
16:29 oleonard cached by the browser
16:30 wizzyrea shift-f5 ftw
16:30 mtompset Doesn't that do a reload?
16:30 wizzyrea it re-fetches everything
16:30 wizzyrea the page, it's CSS
16:30 wizzyrea scripts
16:30 oleonard It does a reload and forces the browser not to pull from its cache
16:31 wizzyrea anything that's in the cache is ignored.
16:31 wizzyrea and you get all new shiny fresh copies
16:31 jcamins wizzyrea: except CSS in Chrome, which requires a ctrl-f5 on a Mac.
16:31 mtompset But isn't that what clicking the reload button should do?
16:31 wizzyrea well that
16:31 wizzyrea no
16:31 wizzyrea you can also hold shift (or ctrl) and click that button to do the same thing
16:32 * jcamins does Shift-refresh, Ctrl-refresh, and Alt-refresh in that order.
16:32 oleonard mtompset: Simply clicking the reload button will fetch a fresh copy of the page (markup) if there is one, but it won't force a reload of page assets
16:32 mtompset Okay, I learned something new.
16:32 wizzyrea "page assets"
16:32 mtompset well that would include js, css, etc. etc.
16:32 wizzyrea like, you can get new html, but the images will come from the cache
16:33 wizzyrea the css will come from the cache
16:33 wizzyrea it's so the web goes "faster"
16:33 mtompset right, hence stale cache.
16:33 mtompset stale CSS.
16:33 wizzyrea exactamundo
16:33 mtompset ARG!
16:33 wizzyrea is ok :)
16:34 wizzyrea shift-reload is super handy.
16:34 mtompset Okay... well, since I'm running off a fresh git. Might as well use it. :)
16:35 wizzyrea if I'm working on look/feel of things, I don't ever use regular refresh.
16:35 wizzyrea always shift-refresh
16:35 wizzyrea jcamins is super extra thorough, I've never actually had to go to those lengths :)
16:36 jcamins I do when switching between 3.6.x and Master.
16:36 wizzyrea that might be a reason to
16:36 wizzyrea cait cait cait cait cait cait
16:37 wizzyrea … hi
16:37 wizzyrea :)
16:38 mtompset Cool... I replicated stale CSS.
16:39 wizzyrea \o/
16:40 cait wizzyrea: huh? hi back :)
16:40 mtompset shift-f5?
16:40 wizzyrea yep, or shift + the reload button
16:40 cait why so many caits?
16:40 wizzyrea just because
16:40 wizzyrea like this
16:40 wizzyrea http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNkp4QF3we8
16:41 mtompset shift reload didn't work?
16:41 * oleonard goes ahead and just sets the password for all his test db patrons to the same damn thing
16:42 mtompset Anyways... Firebug seems to have forced the CSS to reload.
16:42 mtompset not even patron1 = password1, patron2=password2?
16:42 jcamins oleonard: !?
16:42 cait heh
16:42 wizzyrea :)
16:43 cait I should have waited what you come up next with :)
16:43 * jcamins looks forward to oleonard saying "no, ?!"
16:44 mtompset dumb question... why would someone choose position: absolute?
16:44 mtompset Absolute against what?
16:45 oleonard http://www.w3schools.com/cssref/pr_class_position.asp
16:47 mtompset so why not text-align: right; margin-right: 0.5em?
16:47 mtompset Are we trying to keep it in that position if we scroll down or something?
16:48 oleonard If we were trying to do that it would be failing spectacularly!
16:49 mtompset True.
16:49 jcamins mtompset: because the goal is to have logical markup, and notionally we want the #login div on the right, not taking up the entire top bar?
16:49 * jcamins doesn't know.
16:49 jcamins Just throwing it out there as a possibility.
16:54 JesseM does koha keep track of "printed notices" in notice history for a patron? or does it have to be emailed?
16:54 mtompset And actually... if I want to do something like tweak the main page to have 10px borders... text-align:right; margin-right: 10px; looks better. ;)
16:55 jcamins mtompset: if you want to override the CSS you can.
16:55 jcamins That's what IntranetUserCSS is for.
16:57 mtompset Oh shoot... if I forgot to set the git global variables for things... can I set them before a git commit and still have my patch come out okay?
16:58 jcamins Yes.
16:58 jcamins You can even fix your name and e-mail by amending your commits.
16:59 mtompset good to know.
17:04 oleonard Hi khall
17:05 khall sup?
17:05 oleonard I'm hacking on the interface for approving patron updates :)
17:07 khall sweet!
17:12 mtompset bug 8339 ready for failure. ;)
17:12 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8339 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Needs Signoff , div id="login" should be id="login_controls" in header.inc
17:14 mtompset shoot! I attached the wrong patch for another bug.
17:40 mtompset There, fixed. bug 8742
17:40 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8742 trivial, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Needs Signoff , Example uses perl 5.8 in Makefile.PL
18:02 mtompset I better sleep.
18:02 mtompset Good night.
18:13 tcohen mtompset
18:13 wahanui mtompset is trying to do a variety of projects in less than three months!
18:40 jcamins rangi: heh. I was wondering what "contravene" had to do with anything.
18:41 * oleonard would really like to see Bug 8644 pushed soon!
18:41 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8644 major, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Passed QA , jQueryUI CSS file should not contain customizations
18:41 * oleonard is impatient
18:42 * jcamins has lots of patches which already passed QA that he'd like to see pushed.
18:42 * oleonard will be submitting a patch that adds the Accordion widget http://jqueryui.com/demos/accordion/
18:42 * jcamins too is impatient.
18:42 cait oleonard: wooo!
18:42 cait hm wooot :)
18:42 cait or so
18:43 oleonard Further proof Europeans love accordions
18:43 cait lol
18:43 cait hey!
18:43 jcamins I guess I need to rebase bug 8597 again, probably.
18:43 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8597 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, fcapovilla, Passed QA , New theme for the OPAC with a mobile view
18:44 libsysguy oleonard you can push all the widgets if you want
18:44 * libsysguy won't mind
18:45 oleonard :P
18:45 libsysguy especially the dialog
18:45 libsysguy since I'm using that
18:45 * jcamins uses sortable.
18:45 libsysguy and will have to painstakingly rebase anyway
18:47 oleonard Alright, I give.
18:47 oleonard At this point the only reason not to include them all is that not all of them have Koha-specific styling.
18:48 jcamins oleonard: I don't feel we need to include everything. I'm just commenting that I use sortable.
18:49 oleonard At this point all the widgets are spoken for. At least three of the 5 "interactions" will need to be added eventually (including sortable)
18:50 oleonard All that's left is the effects, which we could probably mostly do without although I think "Highlight" would be nice to have.
18:50 * oleonard prepares a sharp stick for anyone who proposes using the "explode" effect
18:50 jcamins Would that enable us to get rid of a custom highligher thing?
18:51 oleonard Different thing jcamins
18:51 oleonard ...I'm pretty sure...
18:51 jcamins Oh.
18:52 cait oleonard: well... know that you mention it...
18:52 jcamins Oh well. I was thinking it'd be nice to reduce the number of javascript files we require.
18:54 jcamins Actually, bug 8597 does not require rebasing.
18:55 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8597 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, fcapovilla, Passed QA , New theme for the OPAC with a mobile view
18:56 * jcamins checks his other patches currently in Passed QA.
18:59 libsysguy oleonard, doesn't it make sense to include them all so you control the theming
18:59 libsysguy instead of me :p
19:00 oleonard A proposed follow-up to Bug 7067: http://screencast.com/t/2bwrGMxVrXg
19:00 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7067 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Needs Signoff , allow patron self registration via the opac
19:01 libsysguy how long is that video
19:01 libsysguy it is just blank for me
19:02 oleonard 32 secs
19:02 libsysguy hmm I couldn't get it
19:02 cait it takes a while
19:02 cait I had blank parts
19:02 libsysguy oh
19:02 cait but then it came
19:02 cait and it looks pretty!
19:02 libsysguy i will put my patience pants on
19:06 oleonard Anyway, I probably won't submit the follow-up until some of these other patches make it through
19:07 oleonard 7067 is getting close to being ready, although the most recent issue is perplexing: How to deal with potential duplicates.
19:22 bag nice hopefully I'm getting a .CEQ for additional edifact testing… maybe the next few days bug 7736
19:22 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7736 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, mark.gavillet, Needs Signoff , Edifact QUOTE and ORDER functionality
19:23 bag and I was targeting testing and signing off bugs about SIP on friday :)
19:23 bag s/was/am ;)
19:26 rangi Has bug 8089 been pushed yet?
19:26 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8089 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Signed Off , Use Koha::Cache everywhere
19:26 rangi Nope
19:27 bag hopefully soon
19:27 rangi Can someone qa, master is busted until it's pushed
19:27 rangi Can't modify any table that uses sqlhelper
19:28 rangi @wunder nzwn
19:28 huginn rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 7.0°C (7:00 AM NZST on September 12, 2012). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 71%. Dew Point: 2.0°C. Windchill: 1.0°C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Rising).
19:28 bag AHH rangi thanks that clears something up for me!!!
19:28 bag doh
19:29 rangi Cold
19:29 bag @wunder 93109
19:29 huginn bag: The current temperature in K6LCM-Westside/Mesa, Santa Barbara, California is 24.3°C (12:26 PM PDT on September 11, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 73%. Dew Point: 19.0°C. Pressure: 29.94 in 1014 hPa (Steady).
19:29 oleonard Hi rangi
19:30 wizzyrea >.> http://www.grouprecipes.com/group/koha/1890
19:31 rangi Yay!
19:31 oleonard I'm in.
19:31 wizzyrea I seeded it with some of my own
19:31 rangi Sorry my joke fell flat oleonard
19:31 wizzyrea and kf's
19:31 oleonard You caught me a bad time rangi, my fault
19:32 * wizzyrea waves to idreambooks
19:32 wizzyrea wb :)
19:33 idreambooks thanks! :)
19:33 * oleonard waves to idreambooks, who is usually in after he has left
19:34 idreambooks i am actually here pondering your release dates and deadlines
19:34 cait ah, we are getting close to our next big release
19:34 idreambooks oleonard: wave back! still trying to figure out to do it on irc
19:34 cait have you seen the post on the website?
19:35 idreambooks is sep 22 the deadline?
19:35 wizzyrea http://koha-community.org/koha-release-manager-newsletter-10-2012-08/
19:35 rangi For feature freeze yes
19:35 wizzyrea yep, feature freeze
19:35 khall oleonard++ just checked out that screencast. That looks fantastic!
19:36 idreambooks rangi, wizzyrea: so we need to implement the ratings before then to get into 3.10.0
19:36 idreambooks how come you guys dont use github...itll be free for you
19:37 idreambooks 'cos you are open source
19:37 wizzyrea we host our own, and I suspect there are some ideological differences with github
19:37 oleonard I'm glad you like it khall. I've got a bunch of template tweaks to submit too. The jquery stuff I'll probably submit separately since there's a bunch of conflicting patches in the queue
19:37 idreambooks ah ic
19:38 rangi There are backups on github
19:39 rangi But it's not free software like gitorious or git or koha I find using it a bit hypocritical for me anyway
19:39 jcamins Plus, having your own repo gives you a lot more flexibility.
19:39 wizzyrea but you don't get the social stuff
19:39 jcamins wizzyrea: we have IRC!
19:39 wizzyrea well yea
19:40 wizzyrea but on github it's not an email to say, do a pull request.
19:40 oleonard Didn't you hear the news? Potential employers are sifting through github for candidates!
19:40 * oleonard will never be found!
19:40 wizzyrea lol
19:40 idreambooks ohh...didn't know you guys had such strong opinions on github :)
19:40 * wizzyrea suspects oleonard doesn't want to be found
19:41 jcamins wizzyrea: I understood that pull requests didn't work right on Github anyway.
19:41 wizzyrea hehe fair enough.
19:42 oleonard wizzyrea, I wouldn't mind finding a Koha sugar-daddy to pay me to just hack on Koha all day
19:42 wizzyrea hint hint nudge nudge
19:42 idreambooks part of the reason we want koha to use our ratings is because it can drive pageviews for us. with sep22 fast coming up, what would you guys suggest we do to get the changes done in time (http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8733)
19:42 huginn 04Bug 8733: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , Adding critic reviews to book pages
19:43 oleonard idreambooks I don't see what you can do in that time.
19:44 idreambooks oleonard: we thought we could help with development but it seems like learning our way around koha alone would take up a lot of our time
19:44 idreambooks we need your help! :)
19:45 oleonard Yeah, that's understandable. I'm sure your help will be useful when someone takes it on, but there's not enough time for a volunteer to put in enough hours I suspect
19:45 wizzyrea you mean for 3.10
19:45 oleonard Right
19:45 wizzyrea I suspect what needs to be done, is sysprefs added for an external review source
19:46 wizzyrea + giving those a home in the OPAC
19:46 jcamins idreambooks: oleonard doesn't necessarily mean that specifically at you. For features that haven't already been signed off, we're probably looking at pushing code that was already developed back to 3.12. There simply isn't enough time in a day.
19:46 oleonard wizzyrea: Do you picture something more modular than the previous Amazon system?
19:47 wizzyrea hm no, I don't think so
19:47 wizzyrea basically it would just go on the tab in place of amazon reviews
19:47 wizzyrea and a spot to optionally put the readometer on the detail
19:47 cait wizzyrea has it all mapped out :)
19:47 wizzyrea well I've been thinking about it :P
19:48 cait i waned to do so many things for this release *sigh*
19:48 wizzyrea because I think it would be a cool service for public libraries
19:48 cait can we get more hours in a day? can someone patch it?
19:48 bag please
19:48 * oleonard would sign off
19:48 bag I could use that too - or a patch to clone
19:48 rangi Now the html for the review box is fetchable
19:48 rangi By isbn
19:48 * wizzyrea writes a patch to the universe to slow down the orbit of the earth round the sun
19:48 bag one to stay home all day with the Ginny dragon too :)
19:49 * wizzyrea makes no promises regarding your internal circadian rhythms
19:49 rangi Some jQuery in sysprefs could add that to detail page I'm sure
19:50 wizzyrea ^^
19:50 rangi I'm not going to have time
19:51 * wizzyrea will try to get to it, if I can get this dang gamification preso written >.<
19:51 rangi I have major conference coming up
19:51 rangi My stop bbiab
19:51 wizzyrea but yea, we may be able to enable libraries to at least get the readometer
19:52 wizzyrea and not have any changes to koha at all
19:52 wizzyrea which would be cool
19:52 jcamins idreambooks: if you're comfortable with Javascript/jQuery, you could certainly stick a sample jQuery script on the wiki.
19:52 wizzyrea jquery library?
19:52 wahanui rumour has it jquery library is found at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/JQuery_Library
19:53 wizzyrea there are demo catalogs on our website
19:53 wizzyrea demos?
19:53 wizzyrea demo?
19:53 wahanui hmmm... demo is running the same code... argh
19:53 wizzyrea SRSLY?
19:53 idreambooks didn't think libraries can implement something like this without it being in koha (even if it is just the readometer based on isbn)
19:53 * wizzyrea sighs
19:53 jcamins With the plan that you'll contribute an idreambooks.com review tab to Koha for 3.12, since it's a bit too late for 3.10.
19:53 wizzyrea not the reviews, but the readometer I think we can - I didn't see your update to the bug
19:53 wizzyrea re: the ISBN
19:54 wizzyrea Koha is friendly to jquery
19:54 cait yep
19:54 jcamins idreambooks: sure you can. There's a system preference to add arbitrary Javascript/jQuery to the Koha OPAC (and staff client).
19:54 wizzyrea intranetuserjs
19:54 wahanui rumour has it intranetuserjs is in the system preferences ;)
19:54 cait wahanui botsnack cookie
19:54 wahanui :)
19:54 idreambooks jcamins: know some jquery
19:54 wizzyrea demo is at http://koha-community.org/demo/
19:54 wizzyrea demo?
19:54 wahanui demo is running the same code... argh
19:55 wizzyrea forget demo
19:55 wahanui wizzyrea: I forgot demo
19:55 wizzyrea demo is at http://koha-community.org/demo/
19:55 wizzyrea you can use any of those to do your testing :)
19:55 oleonard wahanui: demo is also http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_Demo_Databases
19:55 wahanui okay, oleonard.
19:56 jcamins Unfortunately my really cool jQuery, the one that maps the place of publication, is only in non-public catalogs.
19:57 jcamins idreambooks: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/JQuery_Library#Add_a_link_to_map_the_publisher.27s_location <-- you wouldn't be able to use this code, as it's for something totally different, but this gives you an idea of what you can do without changing Koha at all, I think.
19:57 * wizzyrea ponders how intranetuserjs is going to get the ISBN
19:57 jcamins wizzyrea: for the staff client rather than the OPAC?
19:57 wizzyrea no fr the opac
19:57 cait wizzyrea: what you could do easier is put it in SearchforTitlein
19:57 wizzyrea yea, I was thinking that
19:57 cait or
19:57 cait do something like
19:58 wizzyrea well jared has an example there of getting it out of the marcxml
19:58 cait <span style="display:none" id="myisbnforthat">{ISBN}</span> in there...
19:58 idreambooks jcamins: cool
19:58 cait that is a bt tricky...but would give you an easy isbn
19:58 wizzyrea or getting "stuff" out of marcsml
19:58 wizzyrea xml*
19:59 wizzyrea but you're right, it would be easier to put it in searchfortitlein
19:59 cait the problem with isbns is that they are repeatable
19:59 oleonard The normalized ISBN that we have in the template for getting cover images is the 10-digit one
20:01 jcamins $('.isbn').[extract ISBN] :P
20:01 cait ah right
20:02 cait maybe it got easier since last time I tried :)
20:02 oleonard How does that work jcamins?
20:02 oleonard Oh, the span class="results_summary isbn"
20:02 jcamins oleonard: the contents of that tag are the ISBN.
20:03 cait I put it there!
20:03 cait because last time I got annoyed with getting isbns
20:03 oleonard We should just embed hidden machine-readable data in template and make our lives even easier
20:03 cait I remember now heh
20:04 jcamins oleonard: I have said that repeatedly.
20:04 jcamins I'd like to embed the entire MARCXML.
20:04 oleonard jcamins: Was I singing to myself with my fingers in my ears?
20:04 cait jcamins: hm couldn't we just pretty up the marc view a bit with ids maybe?
20:05 idreambooks sounds like implementing the 'readometer' is relatively easy because of isbns. but implementing the rest of the features would take time. any idea how much time it would take one of yous?
20:05 oleonard jcamins: How would you suggest going about it jcamins?
20:06 cait idreambooks: sorry, not sure - for me probably longer than for a lot of the others - and I am not sure how it works :)
20:06 oleonard idreambooks: Assuming you get a volunteer, all they need to do is get it done in less than six months ;)
20:06 oleonard (because of the release schedule)
20:07 jcamins cait: no, then we'd still have to load a different page.
20:07 idreambooks nov 22 is release date right. so if the patch gets sent by sep 22 it should be in nov 22 release?
20:07 idreambooks so 2 months...
20:07 cait hm not exctly
20:07 cait it has to get tested
20:07 jcamins idreambooks: probably not, no. The patch has to be *included in the release* by September 22.
20:08 cait and qa'd
20:08 cait first step is sending the code
20:08 cait second step is someone else tests it ans signs off
20:08 cait third step is qa team passes qa on it
20:08 wizzyrea the readometer stuff can be done anytime and used by any library if you put the code to embed it on the wiki
20:08 cait then release manager gets to push it
20:08 cait it sounds complicated, but can be fast, sometimes it's not
20:08 wizzyrea patch workflow
20:08 wahanui patch workflow is at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Bug-enhancement-patch_Workflow
20:08 cait it really depends
20:08 wizzyrea this would probably be easy to test
20:09 wizzyrea ^^ might help you
20:09 oleonard idreambooks: And luckily you have lots of eager testers
20:09 idreambooks great :)
20:09 jcamins oleonard: I think you might have had your fingers in your ears when I suggested embedding the MARCXML.
20:09 idreambooks although the process seems pretty drawn out :|
20:10 rangi stability wins over features every time
20:10 jcamins idreambooks: not at all. The most important thing is a stable system, and to get that there has to be lots of testing.
20:10 rangi what he said :)
20:10 idreambooks hmm...ic
20:10 jcamins Also, it goes surprisingly fast.
20:10 jcamins rangi: do you have the link to your blog post handy?
20:10 jcamins It was a good post. :)
20:10 rangi i actually showed idreambooks it yesterday
20:11 rangi http://blog.bigballofwax.co.nz/2012/08/12/how-long-does-a-patch-take-to-make-it-into-master/
20:11 rangi http://blog.bigballofwax.co.nz/2012/08/14/how-does-a-patch-marked-enhancement-take-to-get-into-master/
20:11 rangi also, i like this new one apropos of nothing
20:11 rangi http://blog.bigballofwax.co.nz/2012/09/10/notes-for-my-talk-to-the-pasifika-koha-users-group/
20:11 jcamins Oh. Well done.
20:12 * jcamins was 18 hours into a day that started at 2am yesterday, so wasn't fully conscious.
20:13 idreambooks rangi: that was helpful. i guess the release date is something else. i thought once patch gets pushed to master the changes go live but because of deadlines like sep22 the time to live change be slightly different
20:13 wizzyrea readometer we can get done sooner though :)
20:13 rangi well someone could install from master .. we release the software
20:13 rangi we cant control what/when people upgrade
20:14 idreambooks wizzyrea: awesome :)
20:14 idreambooks rangi: thought people would upgrade when the latest relase is considered stable
20:14 jcamins chris_n runs off master.
20:14 jcamins idreambooks: nah, people upgrade whenever they feel like it.
20:14 idreambooks oh
20:15 wizzyrea libraries are strange places.
20:15 * jcamins uses 3.6.x still. A bugfix release comes out every month for 3.6.x and 3.8.x.
20:15 cait yeah, we are using 3.6.x too :)
20:15 rangi there are people using 2.2.9
20:15 cait but people want the new interface now
20:15 * chris_n has repented and now runs off packages :)
20:15 rangi from 2003
20:15 rangi yay chris_n !
20:15 jcamins Many places still use 3.4.x, or 3.2.x, and some even use 3.0.x, and a few unlucky people are using 2.2.9. :(
20:15 jcamins chris_n++ # for seeing the light
20:15 chris_n I'm just wondering where my notice history went.. :(
20:16 rangi about 200 libraries in the philipines are using 2.2.9
20:16 jcamins Though, it was a great smoke test.
20:16 chris_n but that's a small loss
20:16 chris_n ouch!
20:16 jcamins "Ooh, chris_n has encountered a problem."
20:16 chris_n somewhere along the way the notices table got truncated I think
20:16 chris_n not sure how
20:16 chris_n or messages rather
20:17 rangi hmm it might be a cron job running doing that
20:17 cait yeah
20:17 rangi check /etc/cron.daily/koha-common
20:17 chris_n hadn't thought of that; I'll check it
20:18 * chris_n is neck deep in the asterisk learning curve
20:19 chris_n a 'koha' sip trunk might be a nice addition :)
20:20 rangi there was a bug for that, reed was going to work on it
20:20 rangi its probably still in bugzilla somewhere
20:20 oleonard ...wandering the halls aimlessly
20:21 rangi heh
20:33 oleonard I'm off. See you #koha.
21:06 rangi names
21:06 rangi heh
21:06 rangi missing a /
21:08 bag talljoy++
21:08 talljoy :-D
21:08 rangi talljoy++ #signing off
21:08 bag YAY
21:08 talljoy lol
21:09 rangi @karma talljoy
21:09 huginn rangi: Karma for "talljoy" has been increased 4 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 4.
21:09 talljoy talljoy?
21:09 wahanui I CRUNCH DATA or kicking butt at words with friends
21:10 talljoy nom nom nom
21:10 bag hey rangi if we are sending a patch for updating the history for Koha - do we need to make a bug? (I can't remember)
21:11 rangi there is one
21:11 bag sweet
21:11 bag history bug?
21:11 bag bummer
21:11 rangi bug 7143
21:11 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7143 trivial, P5 - low, ---, katrin.fischer, ASSIGNED , Bug for tracking changes to the about page
21:19 mbalmer @wunder konstanz
21:19 huginn mbalmer: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 19.0°C (11:00 PM CEST on September 11, 2012). Conditions: Light Rain Showers. Humidity: 74%. Dew Point: 15.0°C. Pressure: 29.98 in 1015 hPa (Rising).
21:19 mbalmer shit.
21:20 rangi ok then
21:30 cait night all
21:32 wizzyrea what was that about lol
21:32 rangi no idea
21:32 jcamins wizzyrea: it's too humid.
21:32 rangi maybe he only likes proprietary humidity
21:33 wizzyrea ohsnap
21:38 * jcamins heads out to an exhibition opening.
23:51 rangi yay!
23:51 rangi https://hacks.mozilla.org/2012/09/its-opus-it-rocks-and-now-its-an-audio-codec-standard/
23:51 rangi die mp3 die
23:54 wajasu great. one step closer to phone/video calls being internet/web enabled without the middle men.
23:54 ibeardslee hmmm still might wait a while before I rerip all my CDs
23:57 ibeardslee although the plan is still to do flac and have a simple export to alternate codecs depending on the purpose
23:58 rangi nice
23:59 wajasu rangi: i think i agree with khall about keeping bug 8215 signed off. its usable, but its taking so long to get there. i think what kf found might be better as a separate bug.
23:59 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8215 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Signed Off , Add Course Reserves
23:59 rangi hmm?
23:59 rangi not the translation stuff shouldnt