Time Nick Message
00:05 jcamins rangi: I'm a bit iffy about choosing *between* the icons.
00:05 jcamins It should be possible to display both.
00:05 jcamins We already support icons for itemtypes, we just can't display the biblio-level ones anymore.
00:06 rangi hm?
00:06 jcamins (at least in circulating libraries)
00:06 rangi not following you
00:06 rangi this is only for the search results page
00:06 rangi where we currently display the biblio level itemtype
00:06 rangi but generated from the marc control fields
00:07 rangi instead of what is in 942
00:07 rangi which in most libraries they dont match at all
00:07 jcamins Right.
00:07 rangi then you get to the detail page and you see the item level itemtypes it wouldnt be changing those
00:07 jcamins Right.
00:07 rangi its only changing which itemtype you display at biblio leve
00:07 jcamins http://ans.cplibraries.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?q=smith
00:07 rangi l
00:08 jcamins They use biblio-level itemtypes, which is how the icon on the left is generated.
00:08 rangi oh so this is already working?
00:08 jcamins No, it doesn't work for circulating libraries.
00:09 rangi cos thats all they want
00:09 rangi they want Type:
00:09 rangi to go away
00:09 rangi and have the biblio level itemtype there
00:10 rangi its no less wrong than the book or article icon showing now
00:10 rangi and lots of the time more right
00:10 jcamins Right. So you need to *add* the option to display those icons.
00:10 jcamins The bug says you're choosing between.
00:10 rangi no i want to switch the type ones off
00:10 rangi i dont want both
00:10 rangi Type: Book; Format: print ; Literary form: not fiction
00:10 rangi that whole line
00:11 rangi needs to go away
00:11 rangi and be replaced with the itemtype icon from the biblio level
00:11 rangi thats what they want
00:11 jcamins Right. But I think it should be possible to choose the icon using the item types configuration.
00:11 rangi yes
00:12 jcamins It may be this is what you're planning, and the description was just too brief.
00:12 rangi this wont affect this
00:12 rangi all im trying to do is get rid of the Type: Book; etc
00:12 rangi and the icon that comes with that
00:13 jcamins Okay.
00:13 jcamins Now I understand.
00:13 rangi cool
00:13 rangi sorry i explained badly
00:13 jcamins Sounds like a good feature.
00:17 Judit good morning
00:19 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.8.x build #157: UNSTABLE in 1 hr 8 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/157/
00:19 jenkins_koha robin: Bug 8594 - prevent the report system from breaking some subqueries
00:19 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8594 normal, P5 - low, ---, robin, Pushed to Master , A report containing a subquery that has a 'limit' will have that limit stripped out
00:19 jenkins_koha Starting build #158 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #156 11 hr ago)
00:31 rangi hmm unstable
00:31 wahanui i think unstable is sid
00:31 rangi ah yep items one
00:32 * rangi is gonna cheat and push that patch
00:33 rangi something mucked up the db, so that bibnumber and biblioitemnumber arent always the same
00:33 rangi which exposed the test as being wrong
00:33 rangi so it was a good thing :)
00:41 gml hi everyone
00:42 rangi hi gml
00:42 gml what is the purpose of "isexception" field from table special_holidays ?
00:42 rangi no idea
00:42 rangi http://schema.koha-community.org/tables/special_holidays.html
00:42 rangi luckily the schema knows
00:43 gml thx
00:43 gml i didnt know schema pages
00:44 gml i leave, thx again
00:47 Judit schema is good
01:11 Guest5939 Hi - I hope it's ok to ask for some help/advice on koha here. I'm using koha 3.8.4 - but since 3.8 I've been unable to add any circulation rules and I think this is why I get errors on placing holds.
01:12 rangi hmm we havent had any reports of people unable to add rules
01:12 rangi what do you apache error logs tell you?
01:13 Judit what is the error when you are trying to place holds?
01:13 Guest5939 To be honest with you - I am relativley new to koha so I haven't check the logs.
01:13 Guest5939 But generally it tells me that This patron has too many holds - but I am still able to place it.
01:14 Guest5939 secondly, it also tells me that these items aren't normally able to be placed on hold for patrons.
01:14 Guest5939 I checked my admin settings, and they are as lax as can be to allow virtually any hold to be placed for any patron.
01:15 jcamins_away Perhaps you are missing a rule for ALL-ALL-ALL?
01:15 Guest5939 The only thing from what I've found from the web is that it could be related to the fact that I don't have any default circulation rules - and I can't make any ..
01:15 Judit did you check your default circ rules, or the branch specific?
01:16 Guest5939 Yeah, but I try to add some - and nothing happens - koha just ignores it when I click set.
01:17 jcamins_away Oh, I see. I'm about to turn off the computer, but it sounds like a failed upgrade. You'll need to take a look at the logs to see what's going on.
01:17 Judit did you isntall koha 3.8.4, or did you upgrade an older koha to 3.8.4?
01:17 Guest5939 ok - I'll see what it says and what I can do.
01:18 Judit and what isthe exact rule you are trying to add?
01:18 Guest5939 I had the live dvd of koha 3.8.2 - then upgraded that to 3.8.3 and then upgraded that to 3.8.4
01:19 Guest5939 I can't add any rule at all.
01:19 jcamins_away livedvd?
01:20 jcamins_away (no, I'm really not here)
01:21 Guest5939 Yes, from Vimal Kumar
01:22 Guest5939 I did try (on another machine) to build it myself - but I could never get it to actually go for me. Hence for 3.8 i used Vimal Kumar's live dvd/cd for 3.8.2
01:22 jcamins_away I have very little experience with the livedvd, but the only thing I have heard about it has been complaints that it doesn't work right.
01:22 * jcamins_away leaves for real this time.
01:24 Guest5939 Hmm.. yes. I will try and build one again today and see. thanks anyway
01:28 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.8.x build #158: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 8 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/158/
01:28 jenkins_koha Chris Cormack: Bug 6886 - OPAC XSLT respecting single branch mode
01:28 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6886 minor, P5 - low, ---, chris, Pushed to Stable , Single branch mode should disable showing the branch name in front of all callnumbers
01:28 jenkins_koha Starting build #159 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: STILL UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #156 12 hr ago)
01:28 rangi fingers crossed this one fixes it
01:45 bag mtj?
01:45 wahanui DeM KraZy NutZ!!
02:36 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.8.x build #159: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 8 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/159/
02:36 jenkins_koha * Chris Cormack: Bug 6886 - Follow up for UNIMARC
02:36 jenkins_koha * Chris Cormack: Bug 6886 Follow up for NORMARC
02:36 jenkins_koha * mtompset: Bug 8478 - Update Ubuntu related files (3.8.x)
02:36 jenkins_koha * Chris Cormack: Bug 5327 : Fixing a typo in the test that was causing a false fail
02:36 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6886 minor, P5 - low, ---, chris, Pushed to Stable , Single branch mode should disable showing the branch name in front of all callnumbers
02:36 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8478 minor, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Pushed to Stable , Update Ubuntu related files
02:36 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5327 major, P3, ---, bart.tj, Signed Off , Unit tests required for all C4 modules
02:36 rangi darn
02:41 druthb o/
02:46 rangi jenkins build koha_3.8.x now
02:46 rangi !jenkins build koha_3.8.x now
02:46 jenkins_koha rangi: job koha_3.8.x build scheduled now
02:46 jenkins_koha Starting build #160 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: STILL UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #156 14 hr ago)
02:53 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
03:21 wajasu it seems like moments ago you went to sleep
03:26 mtompset Who me?
03:26 wahanui you are trying to do a variety of projects in less than three months!
03:26 * mtompset laughs, "Wahanui."
03:26 wajasu :)
03:27 mtompset wajasu: Well, it does seem that way, but I did get 7+ hours of sleep.
03:32 halcyonCorsair rangi: whats the most useful / common usecase for this chef stuff I'm playing around with?
03:32 rangi the obvious one would be a support company who had a bunch of koha servers they wanted to keep in sync
03:32 halcyonCorsair rangi: eg. one-touch fire up an ec2 koha, or one-touch koha-dev vm with vagrant/virtualbox, or?
03:32 Amit_Gupta heya chris
03:32 rangi those would also be great
03:32 rangi hi Amit_Gupta
03:33 halcyonCorsair ah yep
03:33 bag heya Amit_Gupta
03:33 wahanui Amit_Gupta is probably from Nucsoft Osslabs
03:33 Amit_Gupta heya bag
03:33 halcyonCorsair rangi: well, i've already got the one-touch vm there, although a bunch of currently hardcoded bits as mentioned
03:33 rangi also being able to do a one touch dev instance would be fantastic
03:33 rangi *nod*
03:33 rangi what might be a good thing to do is
03:34 rangi whack a page up at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Main_Page
03:34 rangi with links to your repo etc
03:34 rangi then maybe fire off an email to koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org
03:34 rangi see what ideas we can shake out of the woodwork
03:37 halcyonCorsair rangi: https://gist.github.com/3644826
03:37 halcyonCorsair yeah will do tomorrow
03:37 mtj haay chris, ive made some pretty good progress on the install-doco stuff...
03:37 rangi nice
03:37 rangi halcyonCorsair: good riding near where you are?
03:38 mtj http://git.kohaaloha.com/?p=install-docs/.git;a=tree;f=1
03:38 * mtompset listens in on mtj's comment about install-doco stuff.
03:38 wajasu i have an automated debian preseed.cfg file and shell script that builds a VM with koha-common and mysql etc if you want to reference that.
03:38 mtj http://git.kohaaloha.com/?p=install-docs/.git;a=blob_plain;f=1/debian.html;h=f4cd8648753393e5cf290319eddeeda1cfd9b760;hb=HEAD
03:38 mtompset What was the source document?
03:39 rangi halcyonCorsair: wajasu: sounds like we might be able to put together a nice list of recipes
03:39 mtj mtompset -> http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Debian
03:39 rangi mtj: looking good, just gotta kill those \r :)
03:39 mtompset So you took wiki format and put it into various document formats?
03:40 mtj mtompset, exactly :)
03:41 mtompset So, does this look like what will happen with all the INSTALL.* files?
03:41 halcyonCorsair rangi: not super great, kinda takes about 40m ride/waiting in traffic to get out of the city
03:41 mtj using mwlib, pandoc and asciidoc
03:41 rangi halcyonCorsair: ahh that's less than optimal
03:42 mtompset halcyonCorsair: That sounds like Manila traffic.
03:42 wajasu halcyoncorsair; yup. i was looking at using Carton to gather manage module deps too. there is always somethings to mess with in kohaland
03:42 halcyonCorsair rangi: one thing you could do to speed things up re: a dev box, is make take the vanilla ubuntu/debian base box and create a 'koha' one with the elevnty-billion perl dependencies, etc installed
03:42 mtj rangi, blame asciidoc for those /r's :)
03:43 halcyonCorsair mtompset: mmm, traffic isn't *too* bad, at least for me, but the roads aren't that great and worse there are a lot of intersections
03:43 mtompset I'd like to make sure the Ubuntu wiki/INSTALL file are identical in content so we don't lose information when this transformation occurs.
03:43 mtj wajasu, the ll-koha repo has some carton code, ftw...
03:43 wajasu oooh
03:43 rangi halcyonCorsair: yeah thats a good idea
03:44 halcyonCorsair heh, the git clone takes long enough on its own :P (even when i do only depth 5)
03:44 mtompset eleventy-billion?! Come on... It's bad, but not that bad. ;)
03:44 mtj mtompset, identicalness is the ultimate goal, for this task
03:45 wajasu i wish we could pull off using carton, and use local::lib.
03:46 mtompset Well, I meant that if someone ran the transformation right now, I'm worried information may or may not be lost.
03:46 wajasu then maybe a koha-perl-lib-x64-3.x.rpm package.
03:47 * mtompset laughs, "An RPM package? -- You know how much work it would take to get all the dependencies cleanly in place first?"
03:47 mtompset And when I say cleanly, I mean without doing a CPAN install.
03:49 mtj mtompset, no one is running any transformation 'right now'...
03:49 wajasu i was playing with the idea of embedding/integrating Apache-Camel using stomp protocol to send messages. then we can configure routes to email,sms, EDI, file,webservices, search, ldap, message queues, etc without us writing that.
03:50 wajasu then is find camel runs in OSGI container. and a perl project called OSGIish to manage things via shell.
03:51 mtj mtompset, but at some stage, *someone* is going to have to decide what bits of what docs, becomes the shiny new ubuntu install doc...
03:52 mtompset True, and I know that tcohen and I would like to make sure the Ubuntu docs are shiny and new. :)
03:53 mtj who, how, what , when that happens is yet to be discussed….
03:53 jenkins_koha Yippie, build fixed!
03:53 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.8.x build #160: FIXED in 1 hr 7 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/160/
03:53 rangi yes!
03:54 mtj the good news is, we now have a set of programs to handle the conversion of those different file formats.. when that happens
03:54 wajasu rangi++ :)
03:55 mtompset commands?
03:55 wahanui commands are the one that i posted above
03:55 * mtompset laughs, "Perhaps I'll try to hunt the wiki."
04:01 mtompset there it is. :) Reindexing my QA install of packages on Ubuntu. :)
04:17 mtompset Greetings, cait
04:20 cait hi mtompset
04:48 mtompset " [warn] Couldn't read whole MARC record" what does this mean?!
04:49 wajasu whoa
04:51 mtompset irc logs?
04:51 wahanui irc logs are http://irc.koha-community.org/irclog/koha/
04:53 wajasu a bug i'm testing for signing off said "Verify new permissions, top level coursereserves, with subpermissions add_reserves and delete_reserves."where are permisssions -> tools or admin?
04:56 wajasu on master i saw Search Engine config and clicked it and got => Software Error Koha::SearchEngine::::Config is not a module name (Too Many colons?)
04:57 mtompset Yes, I think that is two many colons... BUT the problem might be there is supposed to be something between the two set of ::.
04:58 wajasu probably new for solr/zebra
04:58 mtompset That would be my guess.
05:00 cait wajasu: in the patron record under more in the toolbar
05:00 cait it's staff permissions
05:00 wajasu ok
05:05 wajasu will have to sleep to test the cominations of perms. iam close to signof on bug 8215
05:05 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8215 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Needs Signoff , Add Course Reserves
05:06 wajasu gnight yall
05:06 rangi cya wajasu
05:09 cait evening rangi
05:09 rangi hey cait
05:10 cait @wunder Konstanz
05:10 huginn cait: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 16.0°C (7:00 AM CEST on September 06, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 75%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 30.21 in 1023 hPa (Rising).
05:10 cait meh.
05:10 cait I think we had the first day with fog yesterday
05:10 cait only a little bit of sun late afternoon
05:10 cait eythian got away from here just in time
05:25 mtompset Oh that's funny.
05:26 jenkins_koha Starting build #161 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: FIXED)
05:26 mtompset koha-rebuild-zebra -b -a -f -v... does a double reindex.
05:26 cait it reindexes authorities and biblios
05:26 mtompset twice.
05:28 mtompset koha-rebuild-zebra is a script wrapper for rebuild_zebra.pl
05:28 mtompset It's like calling rebuild_zebra.pl with -b -b -a -a
05:36 mtompset Hmmm... not good... got another error on a reattempt.
05:37 mtompset I call it error, because I think it quit before the end.
05:41 mtompset reattempting with apache turned off (it is a qa system after all). :)
05:47 cait why are you using -f?
05:47 mtompset [warn] d1: 1: Malformed tag
05:47 mtompset full reindex.
05:48 mtompset http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Commands_provided_by_the_Debian_packages#koha-rebuild-zebra
05:48 cait ah right
05:49 cait maybe don't use -a -b?
05:49 mtompset Then it doesn't index.
05:49 cait you tried?
05:49 mtompset Yes.
05:49 cait because I woudl think -f translates to - a -b
05:49 mtompset Yes, I think it does.
05:50 cait so -f -v should work
05:50 mtompset I tried just that.
05:50 mtompset very short output.
05:51 mtompset What does the Malformed tag message mean?
05:51 cait well that doesn't have to be bad
05:51 cait that it's short
05:52 cait I am not sure, probably a bad marc recod
05:52 mtompset I'm just trying to take out 3.6.3 data put it into 3.8.4
05:53 Judit watch out for fines
05:53 mtompset Actually, the funny thing is, I didn't get the marc record warning/error in the second run.
05:54 mtompset Oh, there it is.
05:54 mtompset [warn] Couldn't read whole MARC record
05:54 Judit http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8253
05:54 huginn 04Bug 8253: blocker, P3, ---, kyle.m.hall, Failed QA , Fine doubling
05:55 mtompset So, how do I track down the MARC record in question?
05:55 mtompset Any ideas?
05:55 wahanui Any ideas are welcome :)
05:55 rangi This is for indexing in zebra?
05:56 mtompset Yes.
05:56 rangi Are u using packages?
05:56 mtompset Yes.
05:57 rangi So it will be doing -x then
05:58 mtompset What is that? Where is that?
05:58 rangi You are using the koha-rebuild-zebra right?
05:58 mtompset koha-rebuild-zebra -b -a -f -v library
05:58 cait -a -b don#t seem to be options to be used with -f
05:58 cait if you look at the wiki page
05:59 rangi Yeah
05:59 cait so it's not a bug if it double indexes
05:59 mtompset true, but strangely... the first pass gives:
05:59 mtompset [warn] d1: 1: Malformed tag
06:00 mtompset the second pass gives:
06:00 mtompset [warn] Couldn't read whole MARC record
06:00 cait I think it's a problematic record
06:00 rangi You'll just have to look for xml that is incomplete then
06:01 cait maybe something in the xml wrong
06:01 cait because according to documentation the packages index the xml by default
06:01 cait and the normal zebra rebuild uses the mrc
06:02 mtompset Is there some sort of validate xml script?
06:02 cait I don't know
06:03 mtompset so that's the marcxml field in biblioitems?
06:08 mtompset The problem is without the -b -a, I get "skipping biblios"
06:13 cait probably becuse of the error
06:13 cait and because it indexes differently
06:13 cait using other options
06:14 cait try -u
06:14 cait -u -f -v
06:14 mtompset -u?
06:14 wahanui -u is an option that you use to give the mysql username you want to log in as
06:14 cait read the docs
06:14 mtompset Close, wahanui. :)
06:14 wahanui mtompset: sorry...
06:15 mtompset Ah, I see.
06:15 mtompset I still think I'll hunt for the bad XML, which should show me the bad MARC.
06:16 cait hunting for the bad xml is probably a good idea
06:16 cait but the reindexing scripts won't help you with that
06:25 mtompset true enough.
06:25 mtompset I think I have a clean index now, but I don't see how.
06:25 mtompset going to work on hunting for bad xml.
06:33 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.8.x build #161: SUCCESS in 1 hr 7 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/161/
06:33 jenkins_koha * ruth: Bug 7613: OCLC Connexion web service and desktop client, followup patch
06:33 jenkins_koha * m.de.rooy: Bug 8704 - Typo in etc/koha-conf.xml
06:33 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7613 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, ruth, Pushed to Stable , OCLC Connexion Gateway, including extension svc/import_bib
06:33 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8704 normal, P5 - low, ---, m.de.rooy, Pushed to Stable , Typo in etc/koha-conf.xml
06:39 reiveune hello
06:39 wahanui bonjour, reiveune
06:45 alex_a bonjour
06:45 wahanui bonjour, alex_a
06:45 julian_m hello
06:45 wahanui hello, julian_m
06:49 * magnuse waves
06:54 mtompset bonjour, reiveune, alex_a julian_m.
06:54 mtompset Greetings, magnuse.
06:54 reiveune hi mtompset
06:55 mtompset I think I found our bad xml... need to make my program not crash on the first bad case it finds.
06:57 alex_a bonjour mtompset
06:57 magnuse hiya mtompset
07:06 francharb good morning #koha
07:09 matts hi !
07:10 mtompset bonjour, francharb. Greetings, matts.
07:22 drojf good morning #koha
07:24 gaetan_B hello
07:27 mtompset Greetings, gaetan_B
07:28 mtompset i think I found my bad "xml" problem.
07:28 mtompset e's with diacritics.
07:28 mtompset is the packages compiled up with chr or icu?
07:29 kf good morning #koha
07:29 mtompset Good morning, kf.
07:29 mtompset is the packages compiled up with chr or icu?
07:30 mtompset MAybe my xml bug hunting code needs localization awareness?
07:30 drojf hi kf
07:31 kf hi drojf
07:32 kf mtompset: chr
07:32 kf but I am not sure it matters for your problem
07:33 mtompset We have non latin characters, I believe.
07:33 kf yes, but that's not a problem for indexing
07:33 kf only for serach
07:36 kf morning paul_p
07:36 paul_p 'morning #koha
07:37 mtompset bonjour, paul_p
07:41 jenkins_koha Starting build #162 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
07:52 rangi evening
07:52 kf evening rangi
07:52 magnuse kia ora rangi and #koha
07:53 mtompset kia ora, rangi.
08:46 mtompset okay...
08:46 mtompset My hunt for the trigger has led me to zebra's mod-grs-marc.so file
08:47 mtompset Are the packages set to use GRS?
08:47 mtompset Is there a syspref that is wrong?
08:47 rangi i think you are off on a total wild goose chase
08:48 * kf agrees with rangi
08:48 kf you got a bad record
08:48 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.8.x build #162: SUCCESS in 1 hr 7 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/162/
08:48 jenkins_koha m.de.rooy: Bug 8706 - Private lists can be accessed by anyone
08:48 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8706 critical, P5 - low, ---, m.de.rooy, Pushed to Stable , Private lists can be accessed by anyone
08:48 jenkins_koha Starting build #163 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
08:49 mtompset Yes, I know I have bad data.
08:49 eythian hello.
08:49 kf good mornign eythian
08:49 kf @wunder Konstanz
08:49 huginn kf: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 15.5°C (10:45 AM CEST on September 06, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 90%. Dew Point: 14.0°C. Pressure: 30.27 in 1025 hPa (Steady).
08:49 mtompset I even have 207 candidates for the problem.
08:49 eythian @wunder oosterhout
08:49 huginn eythian: The current temperature in MeteOosterhout, Oosterhout Nb, Netherlands is 15.9°C (10:47 AM CEST on September 06, 2012). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 66%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 30.36 in 1028 hPa (Steady).
08:49 eythian not much better really...
08:50 rangi @wunder nzwn
08:50 mtompset I just want search for "old" in the new system and "old" in the old system to return the same number of results.
08:50 huginn rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 14.0°C (8:00 PM NZST on September 06, 2012). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 67%. Dew Point: 8.0°C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Falling).
08:50 kf hm
08:50 kf pretty much all the same bad weather all over
08:51 drojf @wunder berlin, germany
08:51 huginn drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 16.2°C (10:43 AM CEST on September 06, 2012). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 48%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Pressure: 30.24 in 1024 hPa (Steady).
08:51 drojf it's getting really dark right now. because i want to leave the house ;)
08:52 kf ah, I know that phenomenon
08:56 mtompset @wunder mnl
08:56 huginn mtompset: The current temperature in Manila, Philippines is 32.0°C (4:00 PM PHT on September 06, 2012). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 66%. Dew Point: 25.0°C. Pressure: 29.80 in 1009 hPa (Steady).
08:56 Joubu hello
09:02 mtompset Greetings, Joubu.
09:03 Joubu Does someone know if unit tests in t/db_dependent/lib/KohaTest are still used ?
09:03 rangi no they aren't
09:04 rangi but if they could be made to work again, they would be
09:04 rangi you can never have too many tests
09:06 kf :)
09:13 mtompset I'm still stumped.
09:13 mtompset I did "title: sex" search in catalogue under 3.6.3 and 3.8.4
09:13 mtompset different results.
09:13 mtompset So something is not right with zebra.
09:14 Joubu rangi: ok thanks
09:14 kf not necessarily
09:14 kf it might be a field is indexed differently
09:14 kf or different settings for search
09:14 kf like fuzzy
09:15 mtompset "He's hot, she's hot : what to look for in the opposite sex." comes up in 3.6.3, but not 3.8.4
09:15 kf did you do a title or a keyword search?
09:15 mtompset I typed "title: sex"
09:16 mtompset Status is Lost. Is there a preference that affects that?
09:16 kf yes
09:16 kf search the prefs
09:17 mtompset Okay. 3.8.4 has 3 results. All say show.
09:18 mtompset As does 3.6.3
09:19 mtompset Clicking searching tab.
09:20 mtompset Interesting... ICU has a "UseICU" syspref.
09:21 mtompset Search tag settings identical except for new syspref, but it says it doesn't affect Zebra.
09:21 mtompset ^tag^tab^
09:22 mtompset toggling doesn't change 3.8.4 search results.
09:28 mtompset Hmmm....
09:35 magnuse mtompset: UseICU does not affect how indexing is done, it just tells the rest of koha how indexing is being done
09:35 mtompset Right.
09:35 mtompset That's what the comments say, so it was a long shot.
09:35 magnuse currently it only affects how links from subjects to searches for those subjects are constructed
09:42 drojf hm. i have a million dying zebras in my log
09:42 drojf apparently it starts and then immediately dies again. "exited with 1 status"
09:43 drojf i don't mind the occasional dead zebra, but of course search does not work that way.
09:43 * mtompset nods.
09:47 eythian drojf: in that case I run it in the foreground with verbose on to see what's making it die
09:55 mib_1x1t28 Hello - would someone help explain what the marcxml field is used for in biblioitems? It doesn't seem to matter if I change data there (example 952 p - barcode) it doesn't reflect in Koha, instead "barcode" from the items table does!?
09:56 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.8.x build #163: SUCCESS in 1 hr 7 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.8.x/163/
09:56 jenkins_koha * fridolyn.somers: Bug 8261: Cannot search system preferences from Local Use tab
09:56 jenkins_koha * nengard: Bug 8696: Update Export bibs on Tool Menu
09:56 jenkins_koha * jcamins: Bug 8550: restore ISSN field to Z39.50 search
09:56 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8261 minor, P5 - low, ---, fridolyn.somers, Pushed to Stable , Cannot search system preferences from Local Use tab
09:56 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8696 minor, P5 - low, ---, nengard, Pushed to Stable , Tools menu says export bibs still
09:56 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8550 normal, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Pushed to Stable , Z39.50 searches for ISBN/ISSN problematic
09:57 eythian mib_1x1t28: there should be no 952 in the marcxml, and if there is it will be ignored. Item details come from the items table specifically.
09:58 eythian However, I would not modify the XML directly, as then it gets out of sync with the ISO2709 MARC in the 'marc' field, and potentially any tables that track marc fields.
10:02 mib_1x1t28 what about the other marcxml data in there - 245, 690's etc - where is that used?
10:05 drojf eythian: good idea. but i think something is seriously broken with instances not really disabled but removed and other weird things. plus maybe some borked path somewhere in a config file. i think i'll just start over with a fresh vm when i have more time. tried to rescue the one from edinburgh but don't have time to look at that now.
10:17 Jorgen Hi all, I've just did an install of koha 3.8.4 on ubuntu 12.04 - and it seems successful. Used this guide: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_Ubuntu
10:17 * mtompset cheers.
10:18 rangi so you installed using the packages?
10:18 mtompset Though, you did do it the hard way, Jorgen.
10:18 mtompset koha_on_ubuntu is a tarball instruction set.
10:18 rangi thats what that page should tell you to do
10:18 mtompset It does have a pointer at the top of the page suggesting the packages are easier.
10:18 rangi ah annoying
10:18 Jorgen However, I followed its recommended Option 1 for the Zebra..and when I run koha-index-daemon i get an error that it couldnt find the C4 file.
10:19 mtompset you haven't set the environment variables.
10:19 Jorgen I'm pretty sure I set it up - but will try again now.
10:19 mtompset echo $PERL5LIB and you will know.
10:19 Jorgen Sorry, what does tarball mean?
10:20 mtompset tarball refers to how the file is comprised.
10:20 mtompset tarball is like snowball. :)
10:20 Jorgen i did the echo - /home/kohatest/perl5/lib/perl5/i686-linux-gnu-thread-multi-64int:/home/kohatest/perl5/lib/perl5
10:21 mtompset that doesn't look right.
10:21 Jorgen the error starts off like: Can't locate C4/Context.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.14.2 /usr/local/share/perl/5.14.2 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.14 /usr/share/perl/5.14 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at /usr/local/share/perl/5.14.2/Koha/Contrib/Tamil/RecordReader.pm line 16.
10:22 Jorgen I did the web installer - and that all seems fine - but this looks to me like I could have some issues..
10:23 mtompset koha-index-daemon?
10:23 mtompset There is no mention of koha-index-daemon in these instructions.
10:24 mtompset koha-zebra-daemon
10:24 wahanui koha-zebra-daemon is in init.d, linked to koha-zebra-ctl.sh in oleonard's koha bin directory
10:25 Jorgen Do Either Option#1 [OPTION 1 is Highly RECOMMENDED for Koha version 3.06.02]or Option #2 DO NOT DO BOTH. Option #1: Use the Zebra Index Daemon to manage indexing. See http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Background_indexing_with_Zebra
10:25 mtompset Right... I would like to say, I haven't tested option 1. :)
10:25 mtompset Perhaps tcohen has. :)
10:26 Jorgen so i followed the link - that leads you to install a few cpan modules. Towards the end of that link they then use the koha-index stuff.
10:26 Jorgen Is option 2 better?
10:26 mtompset I would be able to help you with option 2. :)
10:27 mtompset I'm not familiar with option 1. :)
10:27 jcamins_away Jorgen: either option is fine. You need to set KOHA_CONF and PERL5LIB.
10:27 mtompset export KOHA_CONF=/etc/koha/koha-conf.xml
10:27 mtompset export PERL5LIB=/usr/share/koha/lib
10:27 mtompset Since you did a tarball install. :)
10:28 mtompset The bottom of your .bashrc, log out, log in... that should be good enough. :)
10:29 Jorgen ok, that file is empty, just added the lines and will log in and out. will report back to see how it went.
10:30 drojf kf: the day we are in wildau is software freedom day :) http://www.softwarefreedomday.org/
10:33 Jorgen Hi - still not getting koha-index-daemon to work.
10:33 mtompset same error?
10:33 wahanui same error is face earlier also
10:33 mtompset wahanui forget same error
10:33 wahanui mtompset: I forgot same error
10:33 Jorgen same error was this:
10:34 Jorgen Can't locate C4/Context.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /home/kohatest/perl5/lib/perl5/i686-linux-gnu-thread-multi-64int /home/kohatest/perl5/lib/perl5/i686-linux-gnu-thread-multi-64int /home/kohatest/perl5/lib/perl5 /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.14.2 /usr/local/share/perl/5.14.2 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.14 /usr/share/perl/5.14 /usr/local/
10:34 magnuse and what does "echo $PERL5LIB" on the command line give you now?
10:36 magnuse oops
10:36 magnuse Jorgen: and what does "echo $PERL5LIB" on the command line give you now?
10:36 Jorgen woops -
10:36 Jorgen did it pase
10:36 Jorgen te
10:36 Jorgen this is the error: /home/kohatest/perl5/lib/perl5/i686-linux-gnu-thread-multi-64int:/home/kohatest/perl5/lib/perl5
10:37 magnuse that still looks weird
10:38 mtompset export KOHA_CONF=/etc/koha/koha-conf.xml
10:38 mtompset export PERL5LIB=/usr/share/koha/lib
10:38 mtompset If you want to keep the weirdness that is fine, but you need /usr/share/koha/lib in there.
10:38 * mtompset is off to supper.
10:38 Jorgen I also just wanted to make sure that zebra is starting up at boot so from the install i did this: sudo ln -s /usr/share/koha/bin/koha-zebra-ctl.sh /etc/init.d/koha-zebra-daemon
10:39 Jorgen and get this: ln: failed to create symbolic link `/etc/init.d/koha-zebra-daemon': File exists
10:40 mtompset ls -la /etc/init.d/koha-zebra-daemon and confirm it is pointing to the right place.
10:41 Jorgen says this: lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 37 Sep 6 20:00 /etc/init.d/koha-zebra-daemon -> /usr/share/koha/bin/koha-zebra-ctl.sh
10:44 mtompset So you already ran that step.
10:44 mtompset going back to eating again.
11:14 kf drojf: cool :)
11:34 mtompset Software Freedom Day. Nice. :)
11:35 eythian magnuse: y'about?
11:37 magnuse yup
11:37 eythian so, I've got a small amount of funding to look into the images things
11:37 * jcamins_away perks up his ears. Internationalized packages?
11:37 jcamins_away Oh.
11:37 jcamins_away No.
11:37 * jcamins_away wanders off.
11:38 eythian jcamins_away: I was working on those yesterday, got them rebased (untested) to current master
11:38 * mtompset smirks.
11:38 jcamins_away :D
11:38 magnuse jcamins_away: i'm sure eythian wouldn't mind you testing his work
11:38 eythian magnuse: so I think I'm going to spec up the easy way for now, and allowing ordering to be done can come later.
11:38 * magnuse will not have time for it this week
11:39 magnuse eythian: very cool!
11:39 * jcamins_away shan't have time this week either.
11:39 eythian The library wants covers from the NZ Nat Lib, but to add another source like that will require the multiple images to be fixed
11:40 magnuse eythian: i needed some kind of proof of concept of "unified covers" for my digital signs, so i came up with this: https://github.com/MagnusEnger/kohawork/blob/bug8628-digitalsigns/opac/opac-cover.pl
11:41 magnuse feel free to use it or ignore it completely :-)
11:41 eythian That was the sort of approach I was thinking of
11:42 magnuse yay
11:43 eythian however, the time I have is really just to ascertain what will need to be done and get a time estimate for them.
11:43 eythian they will hopefully approve that
11:43 eythian (unless it turns out I can do it in an hour or so, which I doubt)
11:43 magnuse ah, i'll continue using my little crutch for a while then, and see what happens
11:43 magnuse hehe
11:44 magnuse trouble is, there aren't that many sources that go well with this kind of approach, i think
11:45 eythian Why?
11:46 magnuse well, as soon as the source wants a link from the image back to them or something similar, it breaks down
11:46 magnuse but then, i guess there are places where that is just not feasible
11:47 eythian We'll burn that bridge when we get to it, I think. It's solvable. For example, instead of returning an image, it could provide HTML that we insert.
11:47 eythian But, I think we can do that later.
11:48 magnuse yeah, my thinking too
11:49 magnuse but as long as you only get an image back you can do <img src="opac-cover.pl?bibliotenumber=x"> in a template
11:49 magnuse if you are getting html from the "unified covers script" you need to use ajax, i think
11:49 eythian you can do <iframe src="opac-cover.pl?type=html&biblionumber=x" /> in a template too
11:49 magnuse which is not a big deal, i guess
11:50 magnuse yeah, that thought crossed my mind too, that's true
11:50 magnuse yeah, it should be solvable!
11:54 magnuse eythian: any timeframe for you investigations?
11:55 eythian next hour, hour-and-a-half
11:55 eythian I'm writing my ideas into the wiki now
11:55 magnuse hm, not sure i can wait that long ;-)
11:56 eythian heh
12:00 kf :)
12:00 kf eythian++
12:07 eythian I'm sorta sure I saw somewhere once where you could specify an image to show if none could be found, am I imagining things?
12:09 magnuse jcamins_away does it in his local images scripts
12:09 eythian hmm
12:09 eythian oh well, I'll add that as a future feature
12:09 magnuse not sure that is the kind of thing you are thinking about
12:10 eythian if no service can provide a cover, do we have the option to say what cover to show?
12:10 magnuse http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=blob;f=C4/Images.pm;hb=HEAD#l44
12:10 eythian (i.e. "no cover found" image)
12:10 magnuse there is no syspref or similar for that that i know of
12:10 eythian ah right
12:10 magnuse amazon has it's own kind of image for that
12:11 magnuse open library has a 1x1 transparent gif or png
12:11 eythian C4::Images uses nothing in C4 aside from Context, it should be in Koha::
12:11 magnuse yeah, there was a reason it didn't go in there
12:12 magnuse lots of dicussions and i think jcamins got tired of it and showd it into C4 ;-)
12:12 oleonard Hi #koha
12:12 eythian hmm OK
12:13 eythian It's possible I'll change that as new images stuff will probably end up in Koha::
12:13 magnuse yay!
12:16 oleonard Amazon returns a 1x1 gif if no cover image is found
12:17 eythian http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Covers_from_multiple_sources_RFC#Proposed_Method <-- magnuse, my plan
12:17 eythian well, my plan for how it will work
12:17 eythian not for what needs to be done
12:18 magnuse eythian: that looks excellent!
12:18 oleonard Providing a default "not found" image if nothing can be found is problematic because of translations
12:18 oleonard That's why we currently use CSS-styled text
12:19 eythian oleonard: that's a future option I'll ignore for now
12:19 oleonard Javascript or CSS could both be solutions for providing an image instead of text if a library wants to customize.
12:20 eythian Well, I'm trying to avoid javascript as this is from the point of view of the opac (mostly, exactly the same logic will apply to the staff client)
12:21 eythian but if we implement the iframe method, then we can do whatever we like
12:21 magnuse eythian: sorry, what did you say you had funding for? hacking on this, or just for putting together a price estimate?
12:21 eythian or send something through that CSS can recognise to render the "not found" text
12:21 eythian magnuse: just putting together an estimate
12:22 eythian So I want to get a feel for exactly what needs to be done.
12:22 magnuse ok, that's what i thought
12:22 eythian basically, a design for a "good enough" base that works and can be improved
12:23 magnuse nice
12:26 magnuse about caching: isn't using koha::cache (and letting that worry about where to cache) the way to go?
12:26 eythian yes
12:27 magnuse ok
12:27 eythian although the docs for that don't say what 'cache_type' should be, just that it needs to be provided :<
12:28 eythian Oh, I see, it comes from the submodules
12:28 eythian still should be documented.
12:28 * eythian grumps
12:29 eythian actually, koha::cache doesn't choose how to cache things for the most part
12:29 eythian in a default, non-persistent/non-memcached setup, it would effectively do no caching I think
12:30 magnuse oh
12:30 eythian ah well, I think it'll still be useful.
12:30 eythian Perhaps Fastmmap would do it
12:32 kf eythian: maybe ask jcamins_away? :)
12:32 eythian I would, but he's away :)
12:32 kf was trying to summon him
12:32 eythian This'll also be the incentive I need to build CHI
12:32 kf don't trust his away messages
12:32 magnuse if you wish hard enough...
12:32 kf hehe
12:32 kf red shoes needed?
12:33 magnuse hehe
12:33 magnuse jcamins_away?
12:33 wahanui somebody said jcamins_away was probably not here, but you don't have to take my word for it!
12:33 magnuse heh
12:48 magnuse hooray for all the work on Bug 7067!
12:48 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7067 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Needs Signoff , allow patron self registration via the opac
12:48 * oleonard is re-testing now
12:49 pastebot "oleonard" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "Clean up your database for re-testing Bug 7067" (3 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/154
12:53 druthb o/
12:53 * jcamins is here.
12:54 oleonard Hi passel of ByWaterians. And jcamins too!
12:54 libsysguy about damn time jcamins
12:54 magnuse \o
12:54 jcamins Hey, now.
12:54 jcamins Were you here two hours ago? I think not!
12:54 libsysguy heh
12:54 magnuse see, if you wish hard anough and wait long enough, jcamins appears!
12:55 kf magnuse: magic!
12:55 jcamins oleonard: which files are needed from the custom jQueryUI zip?
12:56 libsysguy serious question
12:56 oleonard The wiki lists them jcamins http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Coding_Guidelines#Using_jQueryUI_widgets
12:56 libsysguy why can't we just go ahead and load that whole jquery-ui.js file
12:56 oleonard jcamins: Although currently they're ALL in there. :| Not what I wanted.
12:57 libsysguy oh
12:57 libsysguy well thats what I wanted
12:57 libsysguy heh
12:57 oleonard libsysguy: I hoped to keep it as trim as possible
12:57 oleonard No sense loading assets we don't use in Koha code.
12:57 jcamins oleonard: no, that's not what I meant. I generated a custom ZIP with just those components, but it has a gazillion files.
12:57 libsysguy well I think eventually it'd be nice to use them all
12:57 oleonard jcamins: Oh sorry
12:57 jcamins It looks completely different from what we have currently.
12:57 oleonard libsysguy: No sense trying to use them all without good reasons
12:57 jcamins (I mean, the files included)
12:58 libsysguy actually if you wanted to do it that way oleonard why not load them as seperate minified files
12:58 * jcamins has a *great* reason for sortable.
12:58 jcamins :)
12:58 oleonard jcamins: The jquery-ui-*.js file from /js/
12:58 oleonard Rename to jquery-ui.js
12:58 libsysguy yeah that
12:58 wahanui i heard yeah that was fine as it is
12:59 oleonard jcamins: And the jquery-ui-*.css file from /css/smoothness/
12:59 libsysguy instead of mashing them all into one can't we do on the fly minification
12:59 oleonard Rename to jquery-ui.css
12:59 libsysguy another issue I has was the images
12:59 libsysguy when I wanted to use dialog you have to move those over as well
12:59 oleonard libsysguy: We can't because no one has finished Bug 1918 :P
12:59 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=1918 enhancement, P3, ---, dpavlin, In Discussion , Minify JavaScript and CSS
13:00 eythian http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Covers_from_multiple_sources_RFC#Work_To_Be_Done <-- magnuse, am I missing anything obvious?
13:00 libsysguy heh
13:00 libsysguy I was thinking about the way drupal handles mult http requests
13:00 oleonard As was I libsysguy, when I filed that bug in 2008 ;)
13:01 libsysguy great minds think alike oleonard
13:01 oleonard You're right it would really simplify handling assets like jqueryUI
13:01 jcamins What about the CSS?
13:02 oleonard jcamins: Grab the jquery-ui-*.css file from /css/smoothness/
13:02 oleonard Rename to jquery-ui.css
13:02 libsysguy it would probably help to use a css framework as well
13:02 libsysguy or bootstrap ;)
13:03 oleonard Bootstrap seems to be trying to become an alternative to jqueryUI
13:03 magnuse eythian: looks (very) good to me!
13:06 libsysguy oleonard: it seems like it might be a viable one
13:07 oleonard mtj was working on a Bootstrap version of the OPAC
13:08 libsysguy I had seen that
13:08 libsysguy I wonder how it is going
13:09 libsysguy mtj you around?
13:10 magnuse probably asleep
13:11 libsysguy slacker
13:11 libsysguy just like jcamins :p
13:11 * druthb gets out the pointy stick.
13:11 mtj im about... ;)
13:11 oleonard libsysguy: I think Bootstrap is interesting too but I don't see the connection between "how do we handle js and css assets sensibly" and "a css framework would help"
13:11 tcohen hi #koha
13:11 mveron hi #koha
13:11 jcamins Speaking of pointy sticks...
13:11 * jcamins pokes his NIC.
13:11 jcamins It pokes back, and refuses to work.
13:11 * magnuse waves to tcohen and mveron and mtj
13:12 * mveron waves back :-)
13:12 mtompset Greetings, tcohen, mveron, mtj, jcamins, and anyone that I missed. :)
13:12 libsysguy oh there's not oleonard
13:12 libsysguy I just fell down the rabbit hole
13:12 druthb he does that a lot. Youthful exuberance.
13:13 mtompset Can anyone tell me if there is a field in the koha db related to 246$a?
13:13 libsysguy remember how sekjal used to get going on a topic and before you know it he was talking about RDA or something
13:13 libsysguy yeah my poor head works like that too, only with less librarian :p
13:13 jcamins mtompset: there is not.
13:13 jcamins mtompset: and that is a good thing.
13:13 mtompset So, where are the subtitles?
13:14 jcamins 245$b, and not stored in the database.
13:14 jcamins There's a patch relating to that.
13:14 mtompset What's the title continuation one?
13:15 jcamins 245$b.
13:15 jcamins I think you're asking the wrong question.
13:15 jcamins first question?
13:15 wahanui "What are you trying to do?" "What is the goal?" or "What problem are you experiencing?"
13:16 mtompset Explain why results showed up in my search.
13:16 mtompset title:opposite
13:16 oleonard and "Have you seen 'Keyword to MARC mapping yet?'
13:17 mtj libsysguy, my bootstrap thing is still up -> http://dev1.kohaaloha.com
13:17 mtompset Because it seems like out 3.6.3 system searches 246$a
13:17 mtompset ^out^our^
13:17 jcamins mtompset: of course it does.
13:17 jcamins 246 is alternate title.
13:17 libsysguy mtj I was afraid to ping it
13:17 mtj (i haven't worked on it since..)
13:17 libsysguy I didn't know if you were paying out the nose for bandwidth :p
13:17 mtompset But 3.8.4 isn't grabbing it for some reason.
13:17 jcamins Koha would be a darn useless ILS if it didn't handle alternate access points.
13:18 jcamins Ah.
13:18 jcamins Nothing to do with the database.
13:18 libsysguy mtj did you post the sauce?
13:18 mtompset I'm having Zebra headaches.
13:18 mtompset Transplanting 3.6.3 tarball to 3.8.4 packages.
13:18 libsysguy we all do mtompset
13:18 mtompset same data.
13:18 mtompset Both fully reindexed.
13:19 mtj libsysguy, -> http://git.kohaaloha.com/?p=dev1/.git;a=summary
13:19 mtompset but title:opposite isn't giving the same results.
13:19 mtj (but not ready for a github push yet)
13:20 libsysguy I thought about seeing if I could integrate this into my catalyst work
13:20 libsysguy now that I have a better direction to work in
13:20 libsysguy if that would be ok?
13:20 jcamins mtompset: odd. I can't really troubleshoot, being working on non-Koha things today, but are you seeing any results?
13:21 mtompset for other specific "title:word" searches, yes. But vastly different.
13:21 mtompset I chose "opposite" because it had such a small number of records in the 3.6.3
13:22 mtj libsysguy, i wouldnt bother yet… its a distraction
13:22 jcamins Do you find the records that aren't showing up in that search using other searches?
13:22 libsysguy I haven't worked on my catalyst stuff in a long time
13:22 libsysguy i'll just end up starting over
13:23 libsysguy but I agree there is a lot of other stuff that needs to be fixed in the working Koha first lol
13:23 jcamins Kaizen: don't start over, start small.
13:23 mtompset Yes.
13:23 mtompset Another piece of information. While doing reindexing on the 3.8.4 I hit two types of errors.
13:23 mtompset Well, "warnings".
13:23 jcamins Which warnings?
13:24 oleonard Is there a method in place for automatically displaying option in system preferences like patron category? Like placeholders in guided reports?
13:24 mtompset Can't find in scroll back...
13:24 mtompset irc logs?
13:24 wahanui irc logs are http://irc.koha-community.org/irclog/koha/
13:25 jcamins oleonard: how do you mean?
13:25 mtompset [warn] Couldn't read whole MARC record
13:25 oleonard Like instead of explicitly listing choices in the .pref file, put <<borrower.category>> and have them automatically display
13:25 mtompset [warn] d1: 1: Malformed tag
13:26 jcamins oleonard: oooh. I don't think so.
13:26 eythian mtompset: often things like that cause zebra to give up and not finish the reindex
13:26 jcamins mtompset: sounds like you have corrupted data.
13:26 jcamins Like, *very* corrupted data.
13:26 mtompset how could it be corrupted?!
13:26 eythian have you noticed that the ones the new version returns tend to be the lower biblio numbers?
13:26 jcamins I have no idea.
13:26 eythian it happens
13:26 oleonard mtompset: The influence of a Sith lord?
13:26 eythian cosmic rays
13:27 eythian oh, or sith lords.
13:27 eythian http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~ballard/bofh/bofhserver.pl <-- this'll explain why
13:28 mtompset But the results in 3.6.3 look correct.
13:28 eythian Oh, it's definitely a microelectronic Riemannian curved-space fault in write-only file system
13:28 mtompset That's why I was asking about 246$a and such... so I could query the MySQL directly to confirm.
13:29 jcamins It has nothing to do with MySQL.
13:29 eythian mtompset: what are you using to do a reindex?
13:29 eythian (exactly)
13:29 jcamins Zebra works only with data out of biblioitems.marcxml and items.*
13:29 mtompset Okay.
13:29 mtompset Let me grab the crontab script.
13:30 mtompset paste?
13:30 wahanui paste is found at http://paste.koha-community.org
13:31 mtj can i just interject... how about L2 cache here?
13:31 mtj could this be a problem?
13:31 eythian heh
13:31 pastebot "mtompset" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "3.6.3 reindex" (13 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/155
13:31 mtj no… seriosuly!
13:32 mtompset How would L2 Cache be the problem?
13:32 eythian what on earth are you doing with that crontab?
13:32 eythian Also, have you don't a full reindex?
13:33 mtompset We started with 512MB... This was the only way to get it to work.
13:33 jcamins mtompset: what the heck is that?
13:33 wahanui that is pulled from the fields
13:33 mtompset Ugly isn't it? :)
13:33 eythian err, have you *done* a full reindex, I meant
13:34 jcamins Yes, and not applicable to a package installation.
13:34 jcamins How did you reindex the 3.8.4 installation?
13:34 mtompset koha-rebuild-zebra -f -v library
13:34 mtompset For the packages.
13:35 mtompset I also tried -b -a -f -v
13:35 mtompset and yes, a sudo to.
13:35 jcamins Okay, that looks correct.
13:35 kf druthb?
13:35 wahanui rumour has it druthb is wanting to be the TM for 3.12. Now we know she's crazy
13:36 jcamins kf?
13:36 wahanui i heard kf was cait or really, really sweet. or <reply>she gives me memory loss or a holds expert.
13:36 * druthb perks.
13:36 mtompset What is TM?
13:36 kf ah TM... translation manager
13:36 kf excuse?
13:36 wahanui kf: Daemons loose in system.
13:36 mtompset Thanks. :)
13:36 kf :D
13:36 jcamins excuse?
13:36 wahanui jcamins: non-redundant fan failure
13:36 eythian mtompset: tried it with '-u'?
13:36 gmcharlt @quote random
13:36 huginn gmcharlt: Quote #117: "<druthb> basking ? You bask on the beach...one does not bask in the Potomac River basin...you melt or swelter or something, but you don't bask. :P" (added by jwagner at 01:17 PM, January 24, 2011)
13:37 mtompset Might as well give that a shot.
13:37 eythian although, if you have a flaky record, you'll still want to pin it down and fix it.
13:37 mtompset That's the problem. Pinning it down.
13:38 mtompset I can believe we have a flakey record.
13:38 oleonard It's not hard if you try
13:38 mtompset Methodology?
13:38 eythian the biblibre script will help
13:39 mtompset what script are you talking about?
13:39 eythian I'm trying to find it
13:39 jcamins rebuild_zebra_sliced.
13:39 mtompset About half indexed now.
13:39 jcamins .somethingweird
13:39 eythian Bug 6566
13:39 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6566 enhancement, P3, ---, christophe.croullebois, Pushed to Master , Checking if DB records are properly indexed
13:40 jcamins Oh, I thought you meant rebuild_zebra_sliced.somethingweird.
13:40 jcamins 6566 will also be useful.
13:41 eythian jcamins: that's bug 7286
13:41 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7286 enhancement, P2, ---, stephane.delaune, Pushed to Stable , Introduce rebuild_zebra_sliced.zsh to recursively rebuild zebra & be error proof
13:42 eythian I don't know why that's written in ZSH, we have Perl...
13:44 jcamins eythian: nor do I.
13:46 mtompset running the script on 3.6.3
13:46 mtompset Does zebra index in bilibonumber order?
13:47 mtompset biblionumber order?
13:47 jcamins mtompset: if the problem is with the data in 3.8.4, wouldn't it make more sense to run the script there first?
13:47 mtompset just checking data source.
13:47 jcamins When rebuilding, I believe so.
13:47 mtompset if the source is bad.
13:47 mtompset source is good.
13:48 slef eythian: zsh = zealot shell?
13:49 eythian I don't know what the z stands for
13:49 jcamins Zee shell vee vant you to use?
13:50 mtompset I'm having difficulties running the script on 3.8.4
13:50 mtompset my PERL5LIB was empty.
13:50 mtompset so I set it.
13:51 mtompset missing other variable.
13:51 magnuse ooh, bilbonumber
13:51 mtompset what should KOHA_CONF be for packages?
13:51 magnuse /etc/koha/sites/x/koha-conf.xml where x is the name of the instance
13:52 magnuse if i'm not mistaken
13:53 eythian yarp
13:53 mtompset magnuse++
13:53 mtompset Running now.
13:54 mtompset oh there's the whack load not indexed.
13:55 eythian and when it's settled down, run it again and see what got missed.
13:55 mtompset I just used -c
13:56 mtompset I suppose I should put that other option.
13:56 eythian oh right
13:56 eythian after all, <eythian> mtompset: often things like that cause zebra to give up and not finish the reindex
13:56 eythian which would cause you to have a lot not indexed.
13:57 mtompset Okay... so here's the question: the first thing listed is 18369 as not listed.
13:57 mtompset not indexed.
13:57 mtompset Does that mean there is an error on 18368 or 18369?
13:57 eythian probably 18369
13:58 eythian but check them both to be sure
13:58 * mtompset nods.
13:59 eythian in theory though, after a couple of runs of that script, you should end up with only the ones that are problematic not in the index
13:59 mtompset There's no 952.
13:59 jcamins Of course not.
13:59 jcamins The 952 is generated on the fly when indexing.
14:00 mtompset So how do I tell what is bad about the record?
14:01 jcamins You could run it through xmllint to start.
14:01 mtompset the marcxml field?
14:01 eythian there's also marclint, but it's very picky
14:01 jcamins Usually you can *see* the problem, though.
14:02 jcamins eythian: and so far rebuild_zebra is being run with -x.
14:02 eythian yeah, it's usually something strange like a chopped-in-half record
14:03 mtompset The only thing strange is the number of tabs in the MARC view.
14:03 mtompset I see 0,2,3,6 and 9.
14:03 eythian have a look at the marcxml
14:04 eythian that's what's being indexed, that's where the problem is likely to be
14:04 eythian don't use any abstraction when doing this, or you'll get mislead.
14:08 rambutan Skekel's Foxholes. I need to go back to school.
14:09 eythian I used them in my thesis
14:09 rambutan I was just reading
14:09 mtompset I did a "SELECT marcxml from biblioitems where biblionumber=#"
14:09 mtompset I don't see anything wrong.
14:09 eythian my thesis?
14:09 rambutan yea
14:09 eythian ...how?
14:09 eythian mtompset: does xmllint see anything wrong?
14:10 mtompset I'll check.
14:10 eythian mtompset: also check the ones above and around it, just in case
14:10 eythian also, let that script go and reindex all it can, and then see what happens
14:10 eythian I have had weird things where records wouldn't index, and then later they did. I never figured out what was happening there.
14:11 mtompset xmllint?
14:11 mtompset can't find it.
14:12 eythian install it?
14:12 eythian libxml2-utils
14:15 mtompset validation failed no DTD?
14:15 jcamins Skip DTD checking.
14:16 jcamins You may want to do DTD checking eventually, but usually the problem is a lot more fundamental than that.
14:17 mtompset not sure how to skip it.
14:18 mtompset I don't see an option that is that clear.
14:19 jcamins Don't use --valid
14:20 mtompset Okay... no errors.
14:20 eythian I'd try the reindexing again
14:21 mtompset Hmmm.... where's the definition the 008?
14:21 mtompset Is a large gap normal?
14:23 eythian huh?
14:23 mtompset <controlfield tag="008">050804s1957 001 0 eng d</controlfield>
14:24 mtompset large gap.
14:24 eythian hmm, not sure. You'd have to look up the spec for that field
14:24 wizzyrea @marc 008
14:24 huginn wizzyrea: This field contains 40 character positions (00-39) that provide coded information about the record as a whole and about special bibliographic aspects of the item being cataloged. These coded data elements are potentially useful for retrieval and data management purposes. []
14:24 wizzyrea not helpful, huginn.
14:25 eythian actually, it is helpful :)
14:25 jcamins I'm not going to say it's "normal," but it's not surprising.
14:25 eythian 40 characters wide means that a big gap is OK
14:25 eythian at least, not too unexpected
14:25 wizzyrea right - the question is, is that an ok gap or a not ok gap?
14:26 wizzyrea are spaces valid for that?
14:26 jcamins If that's exactly 40 characters, it's an okay gap.
14:26 eythian not too likely to upset zebra, anyway
14:27 mtompset I'm not going to count then. It probably is okay.
14:27 wizzyrea . Character positions that are not defined contain a blank (#).
14:27 wizzyrea so yes, should be ok :P
14:28 wizzyrea (as long as it's 40)
14:29 mtompset so does the koha-rebuild-zebra script use the sliced script?
14:29 eythian no
14:30 mtompset That's weird... 19000 was indexed?!
14:30 mtompset Nevermind... the counter confused me. :)
14:30 eythian that's why I said: <eythian> also, let that script go and reindex all it can, and then see what happens
14:30 eythian <eythian> I have had weird things where records wouldn't index, and then later they did. I never figured out what was happening there.
14:31 eythian oh right.
14:31 eythian do that anyway :)
14:31 mtompset Yes, this process will take more than the five minute trigger on the reindex call.
14:31 mtompset so at least more blocks should be reindexed next run.
14:31 wizzyrea out of memory maybe?
14:32 wizzyrea but it would usually tell you if that was the case
14:32 mtompset I was watching it like a hawk.
14:32 mtompset It didn't dip.
14:32 mtompset It went down, but nothing below 150MB free.
14:34 mtompset Well, this has been quite helpful.
14:35 mtompset eythian++ # thanks for the script.
14:35 eythian not me, I didn't write it :)
14:35 mtompset jcamins++ # thanks for some bug report links.
14:35 mtompset wizzyrea++ # thanks for the marc definitions.
14:35 mtompset Yes, but you knew of it.
14:36 mtompset I might be able to track this indexing mess down.
14:36 mtompset So, I may not have to leave instructions on how to skip 3.8.x ;)
14:38 halfie hi, in which table does koha store user credentials? (hashed I hope).
14:39 eythian halfie: borrowers
14:39 kf and patron_attributes if you use that functionality
14:39 eythian and yes, hashed, albeit without salting which is something I want to fix
14:40 eythian kf: not credentials it doesn't
14:40 kf ah, crdentials
14:40 kf sorry,
14:40 kf didn't knwo the word :)
14:40 halfie eythian: which hashing algorithm is being used currently?
14:40 halfie md5, how many rounds?
14:40 eythian halfie: not sure, I think it's simple md5 at the moment.
14:41 eythian I have plans to replace it with salted bcrypt one day
14:41 halfie eythian: cool, I will verify if it is md5, the data seems to be base64
14:42 eythian yeah, I think it uses base64_md5 or something along those lines
14:42 mtompset amazonaws.com? Where are you coming from, halfie?
14:42 eythian use Digest::MD5 qw(md5_base64);
14:43 mtompset eythian++ # on the quick reply and find. :)
14:44 halfie mtompset: i am using a amazon ec2 host :)
14:44 jcamins wizzyrea: someone from idreambooks came around yesterday evening.
14:44 eythian mtompset: he's using an Amazon EC2 server as an IRC shell, and is based in the US I'd expect.
14:45 wizzyrea ohhh coool
14:45 oleonard jcamins: I saw the bug report, that's pretty cool to get that kind of interest
14:46 jcamins S/he filed a bug and is hoping to integrate their review stuff into Koha.
14:46 halfie IRC is banned at work , hence have to use another host for my IRC fix ;)
14:46 mtompset Geography really wasn't the intent of the question. ;)
14:46 oleonard Glad to hear that ban is working out halfie ;)
14:46 * mtompset laughs.
14:47 halfie websense is crap and it can't dissect SSH traffic over port 443
14:47 oleonard jcamins: "willing to provide development assistance" doesn't exactly sound like "We will submit a patch"
14:48 jcamins oleonard: I didn't read the bug. S/he was asking how to go about submitting a patch to Koha.
14:48 oleonard That's a good sign.
14:48 wizzyrea yea that was my doing, I contacted them
14:49 jcamins wizzyrea: I know. I thought it was Greg, but s/he implicated you. :)
14:49 wizzyrea pretty cool that they took me up on it
14:50 mtompset Though, when I hear "development assistance" I sometimes think money. ;)
14:51 * oleonard can't open the Powerpoint file attached to the bug in LibreOffice
14:51 jcamins Powerpoint?
14:51 wahanui Powerpoint is dying on me :(
14:52 jcamins wahanui: no surprise there!
14:52 wahanui jcamins: what?
14:52 wizzyrea it opens in my libreoffice
14:52 wizzyrea ohhhhhh THAT is pretty wicked, actually
14:52 jcamins Works for me.
14:52 * oleonard grumps
14:53 wizzyrea I really like the "readometer"
14:53 * jcamins too.
14:53 jcamins I was pushing for them to include a link to the readometer in their API.
14:54 wizzyrea their reviews are mostly collected for new books, which is really the only downside
14:54 jcamins Yeah, definite downside.
14:54 wizzyrea but. new books become old books in time.
14:55 wizzyrea and let's be honest here - do you really need a review of 1960 edition of hamlet?
14:55 jcamins And s/he said they were adding in more content, so maybe we'll see the archives fleshed out more?
14:55 wizzyrea that's what I am hoping
14:55 jcamins I'm more interested in seeing the NYRB reviews from a year ago.
14:55 wizzyrea that's what they told me too
14:56 wizzyrea actually, I did a simple thing
14:56 jcamins Also NYT reviews.
14:56 wizzyrea that added just a link to their reviews
14:56 wizzyrea lms if I can find it
14:57 jcamins Yeah, I suggested using jQuery for a mockup.
14:57 wizzyrea I think i did that
14:57 wizzyrea not the readometer tho
14:57 jcamins Yeah, the readometer isn't available via API yet.
14:57 jcamins You'd have to screen scrape.
14:58 jcamins This is terrible.
14:58 wizzyrea terrible?
14:58 wizzyrea what is terrible
14:59 jcamins I'm cataloging something by Horace Walpole, and I feel an *overwhelming* urge to A) have some cheese, and B) tell people that I am engaged in "Walpoling activities."
14:59 jcamins Curse you, Monty Python!
14:59 wizzyrea http://screencast.com/t/zjS98Iv39Gx
14:59 wizzyrea @quote add <jcamins> I'm cataloging something by Horace Walpole, and I feel an *overwhelming* urge to A) have some cheese, and B) tell people that I am engaged in "Walpoling activities."
14:59 huginn wizzyrea: The operation succeeded. Quote #216 added.
14:59 wizzyrea [09:56am] jcamins:
14:59 wizzyrea Curse you, Monty Python!
14:59 wizzyrea sorry, it really had to be preserved for posterity
15:01 wizzyrea idreambooks doesn't let you query by isbn, so it's hard to get the exact book
15:01 wizzyrea best I was able to do in the short time I looked at it, was to get to the search results.
15:01 wizzyrea if it's one they have though, it's always #1
15:02 wizzyrea but I love the idea of real reviews from critics in the catalog.
15:02 wizzyrea love. that. idea.
15:02 jcamins They'll be adding the ISBN access.
15:02 wizzyrea woot!
15:02 wizzyrea I really ought to go read the logs eh
15:05 wizzyrea I like how the IRC stat generator picked out my single pithy quote of the day yesterday.
15:05 reiveune bye
15:05 wizzyrea bye!
15:05 wizzyrea always too slow.
15:05 jcamins Hehe.
15:06 mtompset Still prickly, rambutan? ;)
15:09 kf bye all :)
15:09 wizzyrea oh and we've wanted that thing rangi was talking about re: 942 itype images for AGES.
15:09 * wizzyrea just read the logs
15:10 wizzyrea sounds like you guys had an epic and fruitful conversation with the idreambooks guy!
15:10 * wizzyrea is so proud
15:10 * wizzyrea bounces and squees
15:11 * jcamins thinks that making item type images *always* bib-level on the search page might meet the users' needs, without painful modifications to the XSLT.
15:11 * jcamins considers.
15:12 eythian wizzyrea: what's that about 942 itype images?
15:12 * jcamins thinks that injecting the item type image URL directly into the record at indexing time would be a better option.
15:12 eythian I've seen that going through our internal systems a bit lately
15:12 jcamins Item type images on the search results page *kill* performance.
15:13 wizzyrea eythian: http://irc.koha-community.org/irclog/koha/2012-09-05#i_1068318
15:13 eythian ah right, that's what I've been seeing then
15:13 trea are there any other settings that would affect a session timeout besides the koha syspref?
15:14 wizzyrea not keeping cookies
15:14 wizzyrea time and date wrong on the computer
15:14 jcamins IP changes.
15:15 wizzyrea oo yea, dynamic addressing
15:15 wizzyrea ^^ is probably the issue.
15:15 trea IP changes are definitely something i've witnessed before. this is happening to multiple branches connecting to the same server on different ISPs, so i doubt addressing is to blame
15:16 trea all good suggestions however
15:16 wizzyrea all managed by the same IT department or multiple IT departments?
15:16 wizzyrea and what I'm trying to get at - is "do they have the same firewall setup at each branch"
15:16 trea right, makes sense
15:17 wizzyrea and/or similar internal networks
15:17 jcamins Ooh, wait. It could also be a reverse proxy in front of the server.
15:17 eythian wahanui: excuse?
15:17 wahanui eythian: static buildup
15:17 wizzyrea ^^ this
15:17 trea ^^
15:17 eythian it could also be static buildup.
15:17 trea oh yea, i hadn't considered that. :P
15:17 jcamins excuse?
15:17 wahanui jcamins: Daemons did it
15:17 wizzyrea sunspots.
15:18 trea the earth's magnetic pull is pretty strong today
15:18 jcamins I'm going to have to go with static buildup.
15:18 eythian wahanui: sunspots are what you get from staring at the sun for too long
15:18 wahanui eythian: wish i knew
15:18 eythian wahanui: sunspots are \what you get from staring at the sun for too long
15:18 wahanui OK, eythian.
15:18 wizzyrea sunspots.
15:18 wahanui sunspots are what you get from staring at the sun for too long
15:18 wizzyrea eythian++
15:18 * wizzyrea nods knowingly
15:19 eythian I do like how I pretty much can't get sunburnt in this part of the world.
15:19 eythian It's like there's some kind of invisible protective shield in the sky
15:20 * jcamins thinks we should call it an "ozone layer."
15:20 jcamins It has a nice ring.
15:20 eythian it'll never catch on.
15:20 oleonard And they should make a handy spray to make it go away
15:22 * wizzyrea makes a note to stock up on sunscreen
15:22 eythian just bring a tin of paint
15:23 libsysguy has a vote for the next meeting, properly tabbing files
15:23 libsysguy can we make a script do it
15:23 jcamins libsysguy: already discussed.
15:23 jcamins No.
15:23 jcamins Destroys history, limited value.
15:23 libsysguy ugh
15:23 oleonard libsysguy: Fix indentation of lines you are otherwise changing
15:24 libsysguy i try to
15:24 jcamins Perltidy one file at a time, in a patch that is nothing but perltidy.
15:24 eythian libsysguy: I tend to perltidy the function I'm working on, if it's bad.
15:24 jcamins If indentation is so screwed up it gets in the way of the development, fix whatever you have to, with the goal being as little as possible.
15:24 eythian (but, do it as a separate patch)
15:24 libsysguy right
15:24 libsysguy I am just reading files for writing unit tests
15:25 libsysguy and I keep seeing if bracketing all over the place
15:25 libsysguy its hard to keep up with lol
15:25 drojf wizzyrea: the api page of idreambooks already has ISBN? "{keywords} in the above URI is the search query. It can be any of the following: Book Title and/or Author ISBN (10 or 13)"
15:26 wizzyrea woot!
15:26 jcamins drojf: that's API only.
15:27 wizzyrea oh right, yea, I knew that part - the way I was doing it wasn't through the api though (because it didn't exist when I was last looking at it)
15:27 drojf jcamins: what do you mean by "only"? would that not be used for a implementation in koha?
15:27 wizzyrea but I'm glad they built that in. And I suppose it's possible that they built that in since last night :)
15:27 jcamins No, the API already had ISBN.
15:28 jcamins drojf: wizzyrea was just using a link.
15:28 wizzyrea ^^ because no api when I was looking at it weeks and weeks ago
15:29 wizzyrea it's a pretty new service
15:30 * mtompset waves, "Off to dreamland. Hopefully waking up = mostly indexed."
15:31 drojf interesting service. would probably be DOA in germany due to our great new law forbidding internet companies the "stealing" (quoting) of snippets (and linking to the original page) without paying the source
15:31 wizzyrea O.o
15:31 jcamins drojf: seriously?
15:32 wizzyrea what if they don't want to be paid?
15:32 drojf jcamins: it's called "leistungsschutzrecht" and it's complete bullsh…craziness
15:32 wizzyrea I suppose they should license their content appropriately in that case
15:32 drojf i think it only applies to content industry that wants to be compensated somehow. they excluded bloggers in the end
15:32 drojf it's really strange
15:33 drojf i would assume google news kicking out all of them
15:33 wizzyrea so like you can't link to the NYtimes without paying them, for example?
15:34 drojf you can link. but if you are eg. google and have something like a snippet of the news and the link, it's too much already i think. german publiushers are idiots and think they deserve money for that
15:34 wizzyrea well that is a legislative antifeature if I've ever seen one.
15:35 wizzyrea maybe they should write the first paragraph in such a way that I'll be inclined to click on it to read it :P
15:35 wizzyrea that seems nuts, how are they going to enforce that.
15:35 drojf because they are really oldschool, missed new technical opportunities and fight everything that is happening
15:35 wizzyrea poorly.
15:37 drojf i hope they get ignored everywhere. google should not list them AT ALL, kick them out of their whole services. i think they did that before
15:37 eythian there was somewhere else (france maybe?) that happened
15:37 drojf i think belgium
15:37 eythian and google did kick them all out
15:37 drojf yes and then all turned back to normal pretty soon :D
15:38 eythian they came crying back when no one was visiting them
15:44 * drojf needs sugar
15:45 * oleonard turns on Def Leppard and readies the sugar bowl
15:46 drojf lol
15:47 eythian how sordid.
15:48 eythian goodness, looks like we have a 3.6 -> 3.8 upgrade happening in a day's worth of work, including a staging deploy for testing. That's nice and smooth.
15:50 eythian did I see something about allowing borrowers to sign up from the OPAC?
15:50 eythian or was it just updating their own details?
15:50 oleonard Bug 7067
15:50 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7067 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Signed Off , allow patron self registration via the opac
15:50 oleonard It modifies the process for both operations
15:51 eythian thanks, we've had a client sitting on considering that for quite some time
15:52 oleonard The patch is really shaping up thanks to khall's hard work
15:55 eythian yeah, I just read it. Looks busy :)
16:27 jcamins ago43: bug 8736 is probably caused by the punctuation at the end of the series facets.
16:27 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8736 normal, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Series searching causes script error
16:28 eythian jcamins: bug 8646
16:28 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8646 minor, P5 - low, ---, robin, Pushed to Stable , Certain search terms cause browser "script taking too long" error
16:28 jcamins ago43: you can confirm this by removing the punctuation and space at the end of one of the searches.
16:29 jcamins eythian: I was getting there.
16:29 eythian heh OK
16:29 jcamins eythian: however, I didn't have the bug number, so "getting there" was actually going to involve me telling ago43 to look in Bugzilla to find a fix you did.
16:30 eythian ah right
16:30 ago43 lemme check that.
16:30 jcamins So you saved ago43 a romp through Bugzilla. :)
16:32 eythian marked the bug as a dup because it probably is.
16:32 ago43 okay. I saw that bug, but didn't make the connection so filed a new one. Thanks!
17:24 gaetan_B bye!
18:03 eythian under what circumstance is a hold email generated? Is it just when the hold is placed via the OPAC, or also when through the staff interface?
18:05 cait hm you mean the holds that go to the library?
18:06 cait I am not sure about those, we don't use them
18:06 wizzyrea neither
18:06 wizzyrea oh wait - do you have the syspref on for "email librarian when hold is placed"
18:06 wizzyrea is that what you are talking about?
18:07 cait I thought he was, but he doesn't tell :P
18:07 cait hi wizzyrea :)
18:07 wizzyrea hi cait <big hugs>
18:07 cait aww
18:07 cait <big hugs back>
18:07 eythian wizzyrea: yeah, I think that's it
18:08 eythian I realised however that their request made no sense
18:08 eythian so really the point is now moot.
18:08 wizzyrea hehe
18:08 cait wizzyrea: do we link to the users list from the homepage somewhere?
18:08 wizzyrea users list.
18:08 cait people at the workshop didn't know about the page in the wiki
18:08 wizzyrea clearly not, since I don't know what that is.
18:08 cait ah
18:08 wizzyrea oh, the wiki page. no, we don't
18:09 cait hm
18:09 cait maybe we could?
18:09 wizzyrea we could, sure
18:09 cait but from where? hm
18:09 * wizzyrea is impossibly lazy
18:09 wizzyrea do you have the link?
18:09 wizzyrea just thought you might have it handy
18:09 wizzyrea if not it's cool I'll look it up
18:09 wizzyrea :)
18:09 cait http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_Users_Worldwide
18:09 cait was looking it up :)
18:10 wizzyrea well we could do it under About
18:10 wizzyrea oh, actually it's already linked from there
18:10 wizzyrea under about "in use by libraries worldwide"
18:11 wizzyrea sorry "worldwide in libraries of all sizes"
18:11 cait ah right
18:11 cait hm.
18:11 wizzyrea it could be more prominent ;)
18:11 cait yeah
18:11 cait but I am not sur eif I have a good idea
18:11 cait where we could put it
18:11 eythian can someone tell me if it would make sense at any time to create a custom notice called 'INV' that is an invoice for lost items?
18:11 eythian is there somewhere that would allow you to use that.
18:12 eythian It doesn't seem to be referenced in the code
18:12 wizzyrea I can certainly see the utility of that
18:12 eythian but how would you access it?
18:12 wizzyrea through fines
18:13 eythian how does that work?
18:13 cait I am not sure it's an existing feature
18:13 cait I haven't heard about it
18:13 cait whichmodule did they add it to?
18:13 wizzyrea also you'd want to be able to (eventually) designate whether you wanted all lost items for that patron for all time, paid or not, or just the ones currently outstanding.
18:13 wizzyrea the first question?
18:13 wahanui "What are you trying to do?" "What is the goal?" or "What problem are you experiencing?"
18:13 eythian I'm trying to work out what the client was thinking
18:13 cait like wizzyrea - it makes sense, but I am not sure koha can do something with it :)
18:14 wizzyrea lol
18:14 eythian They have created this, I'm attempting to see if they could use it from anywhere.
18:14 wizzyrea no, I don't think you can currently use it
18:14 cait I think maybe when an item is marked missing for x time, you would put it on lost after that and send them the invoice
18:14 cait after you searched your shelves and they had some time to find it?
18:14 eythian ahh
18:14 eythian I think they've put it into the overdue rules
18:14 * cait still feels like making not much sense today
18:15 cait aah
18:15 wizzyrea well
18:15 wizzyrea you could make it so that the final notice
18:15 cait yeah, so 3rd notice is: you didn't bring it back, we are going to make you pay for a replacement
18:15 eythian yes, that's what it is
18:15 eythian OK, now it makes sense.
18:15 wizzyrea \o/
18:15 eythian (which is surprising as the rest of their questions didn't)
18:15 wizzyrea hehe
18:16 eythian next thing is to determine if I can get the item replacement cost into there.
18:16 cait we can try to explain th eothers to you too :P
18:16 cait should be possible
18:16 eythian cait: no, they really don't make sense
18:16 cait you can get all item fields in there
18:16 eythian that's what I thought
18:17 cait <item>... </item> I think, so only in that notice
18:17 wizzyrea well bag did a thing to compute costs for receipts maybe a similar approach would work here?
18:18 * wizzyrea looks for the link
18:18 wizzyrea http://bywatersolutions.com/2012/09/04/add-saved-amount-to-checkout-receipt/
18:18 wizzyrea speaking of which I need to put that into nexpress.
18:18 * wizzyrea sighs
18:18 eythian I should be able to use <<items.replacementcost>> in there
18:19 eythian replacementprice rather
18:19 cait in theory yes
18:19 cait didn't test it
18:20 wizzyrea er but I'd have to be using 3.8. So, yea no.
18:21 wizzyrea i knew there was a reason I wasn't all over that.
18:21 wizzyrea my libraries have been pestering me for that ;)
18:37 wajasu khall: almost done testing 8215. checking out permissions. looks promising :)
18:37 khall excellent!
18:37 eythian bug 8215
18:37 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8215 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Needs Signoff , Add Course Reserves
18:48 mbalmer more time for sip
18:53 wajasu when i add a staff user, i can't login. no permission for the staff clinet home page. which permission do i need to enable?
18:53 wajasu circulate?
18:54 cait read through them
18:54 cait there is one staff access I think
18:54 wajasu i see it
18:54 oleonard The "staffaccess" one is not the one you want
18:55 wajasu that seems to allow delegation of permission assignment
18:55 oleonard Usually for circ staff you'd add circulate, catalogue, borrowers, reserveforothers
18:55 cait oh right
18:55 cait the other is permissons for staff?
18:56 cait should have looked at the interface :(
18:56 wajasu ok any one will open the door i guess. here goes.
18:57 cait sorry wajasu for misinformation
18:57 cait oleonard++
18:58 wajasu circulate wasn't enough. trying more.
18:58 cait trying again: catalogue I think
18:58 cait but no guarentees :)
18:59 wajasu yup needed catalogue
18:59 wajasu thx
19:00 wajasu ahh restricted menus :)
19:16 wajasu khall: i can't add/delete reserves as a staff unless i have a manage_courses(add/edit/del) permission [can't navigate to courses. i can see superlibrarian/admin creating the courses, and others just managing reserves.
19:17 khall wajasu, put a note in bugzilla and I'll see what I can do about it.
19:18 wajasu ok. thats all i think i found. :) great work!
19:18 khall excellent! thanks!
19:19 wajasu khall: are hoping for 3.10 version?
19:19 wajasu are you hoping
19:28 wajasu khall: just FYI. even though permissions are used to hide links, etc (no delete reserve perm). i was able to still delete a reserve by editing the url action at the top of the browser.
19:32 rangi Ah yeah the perm checks should be done in the script
19:32 rangi Morning btw
19:32 oleonard Hi rangi
19:32 wajasu hi
19:32 wahanui what's up, wajasu
19:32 rangi Never ever trust the browser
19:32 wajasu perm checking might need to be something we double check in test scripts.
19:32 rangi I think everyone should be forced to attend owasp day :-)
19:33 rangi Yep good idea
19:38 rangi @wunder nzwn
19:38 huginn rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 15.0°C (7:00 AM NZST on September 07, 2012). Conditions: Light Rain Showers. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007 hPa (Steady).
19:40 rangi That doesn't mention the nice spring 'breeze'
19:43 bag @seen hankbank
19:43 huginn bag: hankbank was last seen in #koha 1 day, 23 hours, 47 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: <hankbank> working on presentation to Future of Libraries conference in SF about Koha at LG needed to talk about IRC as cultural phenom
19:44 rangi 43kmph gust to 80 apparently
19:48 rangi On the upside it's friday
19:48 rangi Which means I get an hour of Julius time to talk about aria tags
19:49 cait hm? :)
19:49 cait cornering him at beer o clock?
19:49 rangi Then visit the guide dog downstairs then beer o'clock
19:49 cait is it julius' guide dog?
19:49 oleonard Hence Bug 8712 rangi ?
19:49 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8712 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , We should use WAI-ARIA guidelines to help with accessibility -OMNIBUS bug
19:50 rangi No every Friday he sets aside an hour for anyone to talk to him
19:50 rangi Nope not his dog
19:50 cait cool
19:50 rangi He just uses a cane
19:50 rangi The dog is someone's who is traveling to countries that aren't friendly to guide dogs
19:51 rangi But he is used to going to work so his sitter brings him in
19:51 rangi And yes oleonard hence that bug
19:52 oleonard Is that a wish list kind of thing or does that have some push behind it?
19:52 rangi Oh I'll do it
19:52 rangi Just learning how to do it best
19:52 cait :)
19:53 cait oleonard: is there news about jquery ui menu maybe?
19:53 oleonard Cool. I confess I know nothing about it, but I'd like to learn.
19:53 rangi After watching the crap they have yo deal with to use websites it's the least I can do
19:53 cait I would so love to see that in 3.10 - but guess it's not going to happen
19:53 rangi Cool I'll write up what I learn
19:53 oleonard cait: At this point it looks like it must be heading for a release with minimal documentation, minimal features. If that's true, it's as useless to us as if it weren't released.
19:54 cait oh no :(
19:54 cait I had hoped it might be better accessible than yui
19:54 oleonard Of course I don't really know, but it seems like the next release is coming soon
19:54 cait else I might have to change all the pull down menus into links for the library
19:56 oleonard cait: I confess I got so fed up the other day thinking about the jqueryui menu issue I even looked at YUI3
19:56 cait how did it look?
19:56 cait and are theere maybe other plugins for jquery we could make use of?
19:57 oleonard YUI3 doesn't even have a standalone menu widget anymore!
19:57 * oleonard has no idea why
19:58 cait http://wiki.jqueryui.com/w/page/12137997/Menu
19:58 cait doens't look too bad?
19:58 cait and here is something about ARIA there
19:58 oleonard The demo is minimal though: http://view.jqueryui.com/master/demos/menu/default.html
19:59 rangi wajasu++ #good testing
19:59 oleonard It seems to leave a lot of the heavy lifting up to the individual developer, lacking built-in handling for some essential features
20:00 cait boo.
20:01 rangi Ok my stop bbiab
20:04 wajasu testing is the best way to learn about the codebase,
20:07 cait wajasu++
20:07 cait oleonard: what do you think, what options to we have?
20:07 cait only sticking with yui for now?
20:08 oleonard Maybe, I haven't really investigated well
20:08 wajasu so after signoff comes "Pushed for QA", then another test cycle with a QA lead. QAM is a tough role to have when eveyone wants their patch in.
20:09 wizzyrea yep
20:09 cait not necessesarily pushed qa
20:09 cait often passed qa next - without pushing it to a branch
20:10 wizzyrea i think that's what he meant.
20:10 wizzyrea or maybe not.
20:10 cait I am not making sense today - i am starting to get used to it :)
20:10 wajasu ii was trying to understand what paul said about pushing things next week.
20:11 wajasu so those 73 signed off patches are in his queue?
20:12 cait paul pushes the passed qa patches, sometimes he sets passed qa too, but we have other people qaing too, the qam and his qaa (assistants)
20:12 cait not sure which queue you are looking at
20:12 wajasu signed iff query at bottom of bug page: http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/buglist.cgi?cmdtype=dorem&remaction=run&namedcmd=Signed%20Off&sharer_id=1&list_id=40415
20:12 rangi back
20:13 rangi passed qa is the queue paul should watch
20:13 rangi signed off is the queue the QA team should watch
20:13 rangi needs signoff everyone should watch
20:13 wajasu who takes things from signed off to passwd qa?
20:14 rangi the qa team
20:14 wahanui somebody said the qa team was required
20:14 rangi http://koha-community.org/roles-koha-3-10-0/
20:16 rangi http://koha-community.org/about/release-schedule/
20:16 rangi those might help explain
20:16 wajasu will things move pretty quick, by oct 22nd? or nov for 3.10? or will much of the signed off queue hang around until next year?
20:17 wajasu those helped
20:17 rangi well the feature freeze is before oct 22nd
20:17 rangi so depends on if bug fixes or enhancements
20:17 rangi and the rest of your question can be answered with how long is a piece of string
20:18 rangi http://blog.bigballofwax.co.nz/2012/08/12/how-long-does-a-patch-take-to-make-it-into-master/
20:18 rangi http://blog.bigballofwax.co.nz/2012/08/14/how-does-a-patch-marked-enhancement-take-to-get-into-master/
20:19 rangi and i vote we follow magnuse suggestion
20:19 wajasu golden info. thanks
20:19 rangi wajasu: thats what happens when you let a math major lose on your project info
20:19 rangi https://twitter.com/libriotech/statuses/243707897345896448
20:20 wajasu ha
20:21 magnuse rangi++ for the stats
20:21 wajasu i just wondered how hectic it gets before release time, and if stuff falls on the floor because of little bugs, then us signer offers need to be ready to retest/sign off again. etc.
20:22 rangi wajasu: ideally it gets less hectic :)
20:22 rangi what i tried to do for 3.6 and 3.4 was a hard freeze, then only push bug fixes that are well tested
20:23 rangi gives it about a month to shake out any issues, but yes sign offers should be ready to leap into action if a blocker appears
20:23 rangi also, if i regression was caused, i would revert (paul does too) the feature that caused it
20:23 rangi up until the freeze there was time to fix those, if they werent fixed by freeze, its best to yank them out
20:23 rangi git makes that easy
20:24 wajasu so i see why we need more tests, more integration tests, to flush them out early.
20:25 rangi yep
20:26 rangi *sigh*
20:26 wajasu i got familiar with the test environent by working on bug 8728
20:26 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8728 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Needs Signoff , t/db_dependent/Reserve.t test doesn't use resdate and expdate arguments for AddReserve
20:27 wajasu thats been broke since 2009. from gitweb trace.
20:27 rangi but not failing
20:27 wajasu not the functionality, the test was broken.
20:27 rangi yeah but the test wasnt failing
20:28 rangi i just got 4 oks
20:28 rangi thats why no one picked it up
20:28 wajasu right, only rthe arguments were misaligned
20:28 wajasu someone added two args in the middle
20:28 wajasu the metric date warning was showing though.
20:29 wajasu now it doesn't
20:29 wajasu but it still worked, but they weren't testing expdate and resdat.
20:31 rangi right
20:31 rangi probably should fix the pod too
20:32 wajasu plus the test depended on prexisting biblio and items, which i added to the test. when i pull a fresh master, i don;t have pre-existing data (just webinstaller ) and i would have to go add biblios to pass the test.
20:33 rangi thats a pretty lacklustre research effort im afraid (the recent mail to the koha list)
20:33 rangi and ohh a spammer to bounce off the list
20:33 * rangi does so
20:34 wajasu koha-devel?
20:34 wahanui koha-devel is probably the best list
20:34 rangi no the main list
20:35 cait and only us centric
20:35 rangi well of course
20:35 cait 3 main vendors
20:35 rangi that's a given really
20:35 cait really???
20:35 wahanui Of course!
20:35 cait koha - koha vendors
20:35 cait I can't even give you the lin kit seems :(
20:35 rangi yeah frames
20:36 wizzyrea 3 main vendors. jeez.
20:37 rangi yeah, you'd get a D for that research effort
20:37 wizzyrea A for going and fetching all of those logos though.
20:38 rangi heh
20:38 wizzyrea i'm teasing.
20:38 cait hm they got evergreen in the koha faq
20:38 wizzyrea really.
20:38 wahanui Of course!
20:38 wizzyrea you got your evergreen on my koha! No you got your koha on my evergreen~
20:38 rangi you should email them corrections :)
20:38 rangi http://opensource-ils.cci.utk.edu/content/contact-form
20:38 rangi except if you are blind
20:39 rangi then you can't
20:39 rangi stupid captchas
20:39 cait hm and koha.org links at tech support :(
20:39 cait doesn't seem like they got the difference
20:39 rangi yeah its just a mess really
20:39 rangi nope
20:39 rangi ah well
20:39 rangi just one more pile of misinformation on the net
20:39 rangi its not like it's alone in that :)
20:40 cait no, but it makes me sad
20:40 rangi its kinda stink it doesnt mention the other open source ils either
20:40 rangi foss4lib is a much better effort
20:41 wizzyrea openbiblio or...
20:41 wizzyrea what's the one you're thinking of
20:41 rangi newgenlib
20:41 rangi there's a few now
20:41 cait yeah
20:41 cait senayan maybe
20:41 rangi whats that german one?
20:41 cait that german one?
20:41 rangi or is it french?
20:41 cait pmb
20:41 rangi that one
20:41 cait french
20:41 nengard already emailed them a brief email - but more from the rest of you would be awesome
20:41 cait there is also bibliotheq I think
20:41 cait and something else
20:42 wajasu didn't you guys have this same conversaion a year ago?
20:42 wajasu dejavu
20:43 wizzyrea it's cyclical.
20:43 wizzyrea ;)
20:43 rangi yep
20:43 wajasu anyone looked int bug 8447
20:44 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8447 critical, P1 - high, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , can't save new records / indicator error
20:44 nengard I hope so ? but not me :)
20:44 rangi not me
20:44 cait mveron++ for being awesome
20:45 wajasu i breifly did, but i wonder if there is some low level MARC violation that enforces indicators to be a certain way. i'm going to look at it. i'll probably learn something.
20:45 rangi talk to jcamins first
20:46 rangi its to do with authority merging/creating
20:46 wajasu i see
20:47 wajasu i was playing with adding athorities in master, and there was a popup, which you could search and save, but the cancel button did nothing. should i write up a bug?
20:47 rangi cool nothing new to push
20:47 rangi yep, as long as you can replicate on master
20:56 rangi bug 8211 and bug 8726 would be good ones to get signed off
20:56 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8211 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Needs Signoff , Add "subject (broader)," "subject (narrower)," and "subject (related)" options for search
20:56 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8726 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Needs Signoff , Did you mean? plugin for broader/narrower/related terms
20:57 wajasu ok
20:57 rangi they have good test plans also :)
20:57 wajasu i was starting to look at LDAP security stuff since i have that background and can work that stuff.
21:04 wajasu i'm seeing that 8211 depends on 7818. 7818 is pushed to stable. (is master stable?)
21:05 rangi if you click on the history link
21:06 rangi http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_activity.cgi?id=7818
21:06 rangi you can see it went to master first
21:06 rangi then to stable
21:06 rangi that's the pattern patches should take pushed to master
21:06 wajasu ah.
21:06 rangi then cherry-picked to 3.8.x or 3.6.x as required
21:07 rangi occassionally we have to do a seperate patch for the stable branches
21:07 rangi but that is a rare occurence
21:07 wajasu you guys are managing alot of branches
21:08 wajasu 2 plus trunk/master.
21:08 rangi thats not many :)
21:09 rangi and thats why we have release maintainers
21:09 wajasu not with git. but clearcase or pvcs, or others its a bear.
21:09 rangi i only have to care about the 3.8.x branch
21:09 rangi yep thats why we use git
21:12 wajasu i've got to go running. will look at 8211 and 8726 later
21:13 rangi cool
21:41 rambutan chris_n is bouncing all over the place
21:41 rangi yep
21:47 drojf so i am not the only one less than impressed by that ils "research" website
21:49 rangi id encourage people to use the contact form to nicely point out the factual errors
21:49 rangi gotta keep it nice and polite, but yeah its a bit a of a mess
21:49 drojf i would if i'd think they would be interested at all
21:49 drojf but i doubt that somehow
21:49 rangi yeah
21:49 rangi hm true, they never seemed to get involved or ask any questions
21:50 jcamins_away [off] It's *research*. Too important for asking people like us.
21:51 drojf we should probably ask them, they are the researchers ;)
21:52 drojf i wonder how they chose the three "main vendors" over the rest
21:52 rangi being in the US?
21:53 jcamins_away wtf?
21:53 rangi yeah that page is special :)
21:53 jcamins_away I was looking at the "other ILS" section.
21:53 halcyonCorsair rangi: yo, what's the layout of your dev machine like? where do you keep the code, etc?
21:53 rangi [off] http://opensource-ils.cci.utk.edu/content/koha-vendors
21:54 rangi halcyonCorsair: ~/git/koha/
22:03 drojf there sure are a lot of forky links on that website. i have not seen that comapany mentioned so often before.
22:03 drojf company even
22:03 jcamins_away [off] That's 'cause they're doing Official Research (TM)
22:04 drojf heh
22:05 drojf This is the IRC website for the Koha community. The channel is logged and searchable. Major topics include announcements, events, news, tips and tricks, and surveys.
22:05 drojf look, that is us in research
23:31 mtompset Good morning, #koha
23:32 mtompset I think my zebra problems are solved. Just about to test.
23:36 rangi just going to upgrade bugzilla
23:36 mtompset woo hoo! They are solved.
23:37 mtompset bug 6566 solved my problems.
23:37 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6566 enhancement, P3, ---, christophe.croullebois, Pushed to Master , Checking if DB records are properly indexed
23:37 mtompset Ran that script.
23:38 mtompset And the reindexes every 5 minutes picked up the missing pieces.
23:40 rangi upgraded, now running 4.2.3
23:41 mtompset So the URL isn't the same now?
23:42 rangi yes it is
23:42 mtompset but it is really bugzilla 4.2.3 under the hood?
23:43 rangi its been bugzilla 4 for years
23:43 rangi no need to change the url tho
23:49 mtj silly Q.. can anyone remember how to 'enable' zebra index cron, on koha+packages?
23:49 rangi its enabled by default
23:50 mtj ah, ok
23:50 rangi unless you did
23:50 rangi koha-disable instance
23:50 mtj gotcha, i couldnt rembz if it was, or not..