Time  Nick          Message
00:09 Judit         morning
01:26 eythian       Judit: afternoon
01:27 Judit         :)afternoon? you already left?
01:28 eythian       nope, it's 1:26pm here
01:49 jcamins_away  y
01:49 jcamins_away  u
01:50 jcamins_away  Sorry.
01:50 jcamins_away  Phone keyboard.
01:51 rangi         heh
01:51 rangi         yeah, they can be tricky to use
02:19 jcamins_away  git.k-c.org really slow for anyone else?
02:20 jcamins_away  really slow/down?
02:22 chilts        both the website and the git clone are fine for me
02:22 jcamins_away  chilts: thanks.
02:24 rangi         hmm slow for me
02:24 rangi         but up
04:41 cait          morning #koha
04:54 Oak           kia ora #koha
04:55 cait          hi Oak
04:55 Oak           Ahoy cait
05:00 eythian       hello
05:00 cait          hello :)
05:01 Oak           hello :)
06:31 alex_a        bonjour
06:41 cait          hi alex_a
06:41 cait          next week! :D
06:42 cait          bbl
06:49 julian_m      hi #koha
06:53 Joubu         hi all
07:04 marcelr       hello koha
07:04 slef          hello
07:04 wahanui       what's up, slef
07:05 slef          wahanui: up is the sky
07:05 wahanui       OK, slef.
07:06 Oak           \o
07:14 kf            good morning #koha
07:17 Oak           good morning kf :)
07:19 marcelr       hi kf Oak
07:20 francharb     hi
07:23 * magnuse     buries magnus_afk and waves at #koha
07:25 magnuse       Oak
07:25 Oak           magnuse
07:25 magnuse       yay! ;-)
07:25 Oak           :-)
07:28 marcelr       hi magnuse francharb
07:29 magnuse       hiya marcelr
07:30 Oak_          electricity playing hide and seek
07:31 magnuse       sounds like fun... ;-)
07:31 Oak_          it is :)
07:37 Oak_          how do i give myself credit for the Koha deployment and customization I did... in footer area of my opac? what words do I use?
07:39 Oak_          like, Deployed by --- or Implemented by --- ? or what? any ideas? or should I add a 'Credits' link in footer and add names of all the people who helped me. that sound better actually.
07:40 hdl           oak there is an opaccredits sys pref iirc
07:41 hdl           But you also could add something to the about page.
07:41 paul_p        good morning #koha
07:41 Oak_          hmm
07:41 hdl           it is not something we usually do.
07:42 Oak_          yes, probably because you all have jobs... and this is my MLIS project, and it would be better if people knew who did the work? no?
07:42 Oak_          i mean i don't have a library job at the moment
07:44 hdl           Oak_: at the time Paul and I worked, we worked as consultants.
07:44 Oak_          hmm :)
07:44 Oak_          okay
07:47 rangi         evening
07:48 Oak_          evening rangi
07:48 magnuse       kia ora rangi
07:57 stuartyeates  rangi: thanks for the hints earlier today. we're having another crack at picking an LMS in October
07:57 rangi         excellent
07:58 rangi         happy to do a demo/presentation any time if that would be useful
07:59 stuartyeates  last interation they decided that all the real offerings were vaporware, but everyone else seems to be heading in the alma direction
08:00 stuartyeates  from what i can tell we'll looking for a 100% hosted outsourced solution
08:00 rangi         ah yep
08:00 rangi         totally doable :)
08:00 stuartyeates  but i'm only seeing one part of the consortia, so that may not be an accurate description of the state of play
08:01 rangi         right
08:01 rangi         ill ask david up at waikato too
08:01 slef          If Paypal do their worst, any ideas how we can collect the donations from the USA without them?  Wire transfers are very expensive, even US-US which I could set up.
08:02 rangi         cheques work, they just take a long long time to clear
08:02 slef          mailing cheques internationally? Yeah, that's true
08:02 slef          We've done that from the far east in the past.
08:03 rangi         yep, laurels parents have done that to us before too
08:04 slef          What about NZ? Can you wire transfer to UK or use e-wallets or are we begging paper cheques from there too?
08:04 * slef        sulks at paypal
08:04 * magnuse     thinks slef is too lenient
08:05 rangi         naw we can do etransfers
08:06 rangi         they do charge like a wounded bull for it
08:06 rangi         however, i could talk to work, it might be that we can somehow use catalyst eu
08:07 rangi         ie, get catalyst nz, to transfer to catalyst eu in the uk, and get it to you from there
08:07 rangi         im assuming of course that we must have to do money transfers to them from time to time
08:13 slef          rangi: if needed, do you think you or catalyst could collect the other NZ donations into it?  And any idea what ballpark the transfer charge is?
08:13 rangi         probably, and no idea
08:15 rangi         david from catalyst eu will be at the conference so we can have a chat and figure it out
08:16 slef          just in case anyone cares, international transfers in the UK are under £10 and US is $20-$40... bizarrely, I'm pretty sure transfers from most of the EU to us cost nothing as long as they're sent in Euros, thanks to the EU
08:18 slef          rangi: if you have free domestic transfers, I can probably get access to an NZ bank account pretty simply.
08:18 rangi         wouldnt be free, but in the region of 20cents
08:18 stuartyeates  slef: the NZ-EU situation has changed in the last month, we've been dropped from an approved list
08:19 stuartyeates  apparently it's too easy to set up a company here electronically and so people have been using us as money laudering transit point
08:20 rangi         yay us!
08:21 asaurat       it's business time!
08:21 slef          stuartyeates: Great. And the reaction is to make the banking system more secure by stopping everyone being able to use it for anything.
08:21 slef          asaurat: lazy. I've been here 80mins already.
08:21 slef          ;)
08:22 asaurat       i was talking about the NZ ;)
08:23 slef          stuartyeates: I've a nice sideline using the co-op to campaign for relaxing banking security... although I'm not doing that with paypal because I think I have too much money and not enough time there.
09:53 slef          every so often I get bored with writing perl and then I write something like map { $column->{$headings->[$_]} = $_ } (0..@{$headings}); and smile when it works.
10:00 drojf         good day #koha
10:00 slef          hi
10:02 drojf         hi slef. do you know if there is an acta demonstration in edinburgh on 9.6.? i think it's a global (european) action day
10:03 slef          drojf: last I saw, the nearest was Glasgow about 1h away by train. There is a google map linked from their facebook page if you want to check it and let me know ;)
10:03 slef          Glasgow is a bit far for a lunchtime trip
10:03 drojf         just looking for something non-facebookish ;)
10:04 slef          the facebook page was public-viewable
10:04 slef          EDRI.org may have links too
10:05 drojf         glasgow and london on the related google map
10:05 drojf         what does it take to register a demonstration in uk? ;)
10:09 drojf         Glasgow 9. 6. 2012 12:00--20:00 in UTC+01
10:09 drojf         i doubt there will really be people for 8 hours
10:10 slef          I don't know what it takes to register a demonstration here. I've never registered one ;-)
10:10 slef          I suspect whether there will be people for 8 hours depends on what the police do...
10:11 drojf         54 people going according to fb. if we have a public anti acta hackfest day we woudl be 38 already ;)
10:12 drojf         54. wow. either uk folks are really not interested in acta or don't use facebook for that.
10:25 slef          yeah fb doesn't seem the natural place to organise against surveillance
10:25 slef          or they're distracted by the monarchy going "ooh look at the pretty things, have some holiday, good peasants"
10:28 drojf         heh. i never understood why they all use fb for that but it lead to 10000 people in berlin at -17° the last time i went so i try to accept it anyway
10:29 drojf         found a different google map at edri which has 10 uk events. not all is lost ;)
10:31 slef          any in Edinburgh?
10:31 drojf         unfortunately not https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=214917285437566492834.0004bf01e005a41a2f7fa&msa=0&ll=51.096623,12.260742&spn=24.452056,67.631836
10:37 * drojf       tries to pull zioha out of the revolving door
10:56 slef          drojf: shame. Any "how to do a UK demo" and any volunteers to organise it?
10:59 jcamins_away  slef: are you doing something with authorities?
10:59 slef          jcamins: no more than usual. In what way?
11:01 jcamins       slef: your example of how to keep Perl interesting looked like it might be a modification of C4::Heading.
11:01 slef          jcamins: ah no, I'm loading a CSV into the items table with a perl script and the C4 API
11:02 jcamins       Ah.
11:03 slef          $headings is the first line of the CSV of course
11:04 slef          biab
11:06 drojf         slef: http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrights/the-right-of-peaceful-protest/index.html looks promising, i'll have a closer look later
11:45 BobB          hi slef
11:48 BobB          @later tell slef BobB cannot organise the band for KohaCon - members are dispersed on relevant nights.  Sorry.
11:48 huginn`       BobB: The operation succeeded.
11:56 slef          BobB: OK, thanks for trying. I'll make a note.
11:57 oleonard      Hi #koha
12:39 paul_p        jcamins = sandbox2.sql.gz on contrib/global/sandbox has been upgraded to 3.8.0 and his size reduced to 5k biblio (instead of 20k)
12:45 jcamins       paul_p: did you push the changes to add sign off?
12:45 paul_p        jcamins yep
12:47 jcamins       :)
12:47 jcamins       paul_p++
12:58 paul_p        jcamins = just in case= I just pushed another patch (with doc and a commented line that should not be=
12:58 paul_p        )
12:58 umer          Hi, every one. i am new to this channel and KOHA as well. i have understood many things regarding koha and still in the phase of learning.
12:58 umer          i need a bit of ur help
13:00 umer          how can we import data from some excel file into koha. i know how to import patrons, i do have idea how to import catalogs and items. but if my data is like (petron abc has item xyz issued from library)
13:00 umer          a complete excel file of this data
13:00 umer          any idea?
13:02 jcamins       umer: you will have to convert the file into MARC.
13:04 umer          no.. i have marc files, it has data related to records and items. i have imported the items and records into koha. this is working fine.
13:04 umer          now what i want to do is, there was an old system, which has information like which book was issued to which patron and is still not checked in, which patron has how much fines etc
13:04 jcamins       Oh, I see. You mean *just* circulation data.
13:05 umer          yes yes you got it right
13:05 umer          just circulation data
13:05 jcamins       You'll probably need to write a script to read the data from the spreadsheet and insert it directly into the Koha database.
13:05 jcamins       Koha migration toolbox?
13:06 jcamins       Koha migration toolbox is https://www.gitorious.org/koha-toolbox/
13:06 jcamins       ^^ that might be useful. It has scripts for a lot of migration tasks.
13:06 umer          ahhan.. okay.. i ll look into it. thanks a lot
13:14 umer          ok one more thing. by default koha provides the functionality of calculating fines base upon days. is there some way that we could calculate fines on hourly basis?
13:15 jcamins       umer: that feature was added in version 3.8.
13:16 umer          oh.. i am using 3.02. is there some way that i can update it to the latest one?
13:17 jcamins       If you look in INSTALL.debian, it has instructions for upgrading.
13:17 umer          ok.. thankyou
13:18 jcamins       oleonard: do you know of a way to produce a box with a caption-y looking thing outside of a form?
13:18 jcamins       I know about fieldset and legend, but the box in question contains only text.
13:19 oleonard      What's the context?
13:19 jcamins       Authority notes.
13:19 jcamins       I want to set them off a little bit from the rest of the text.
13:21 oleonard      jcamins: I don't think there is an existing model for that yet, so you can do what you think works best
13:22 oleonard      If it's instructions for a form we sometimes offset it on the right, like on the list add page
13:22 jcamins       Actually, what might be better is to set up a tabbed bit, and then just have one tab.
13:22 oleonard      Not that that looks great.
13:22 jcamins       That makes it more like the bib details.
13:22 * oleonard    doesn't understand
13:23 jcamins       I am designing a details view for authorities.
13:23 oleonard      But that reminds me to be grumpy about Bug 8170
13:23 huginn`       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8170 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , 5XX fields get hidden under Title notes
13:23 oleonard      5XX fields aren't hidden there, they just GO THERE.
13:23 jcamins       Why?
13:23 jcamins       Ah.
13:24 oleonard      You could just as easily argue that the MARC view is "hidden" because there's a separate link for it
13:24 * jcamins     was going to file a bug saying that the MARC view is hidden.
13:24 umer          couldnt find INSTALL.debian .. could u please guide me the path to this file
13:25 oleonard      umer it's in the root directory of your Koha installation
13:25 jcamins       umer: it should be in the root directory, but you can also find it online here: http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=blob;f=INSTALL.debian;h=2c41201138e5dcabf0a06d21cda3df632474469d;hb=HEAD
13:26 umer          couldnt find it in root. thanks for the link
13:42 jcamins       Hm. the tabber is removing the <ul> and <li> elements, and not doing anything else.
13:45 wizzyrea      I think you said "root" and he thought "/"
13:45 wizzyrea      and good morning
13:46 oleonard      "You had me at root"
13:46 oleonard      "In that I stopped reading after that"
13:47 jcamins       Okay, it's no longer removing the <ul> and <li> tags.
13:47 jcamins       That's progress.
13:47 oleonard      jcamins: You're trying to do the tabs plugin?
13:47 jcamins       Yes.
13:49 oleonard      I'd be happy to check the markup if that would help
13:49 wizzyrea      oh there's a new zebra version
13:49 jcamins       Before I show it to you, I think I'd better check that I'm not making any embarrassing mistakes in it.
13:49 jcamins       wizzyrea: yeah, I saw that.
13:49 oleonard      jcamins: That's usually the problem ;)
13:50 jcamins       ... like the one I just found.
13:50 wizzyrea      3 whole changes. They are ambitious.
13:50 jcamins       lol
13:50 jcamins       wizzyrea: presumably there are more differences?
13:50 jcamins       I _did_ think that very thing, though.
13:51 wizzyrea      um, thre are only 3 listed in the email
13:51 wizzyrea      Increase max size of indexing term from 256 to 512.
13:51 wizzyrea      Fix buffer overrun for terms using ICU normalization.
13:51 wizzyrea      Fix problem in dictionary due to increase max size of term.
13:51 jcamins       I know. I saw the e-mail.
13:51 wizzyrea      that's it
13:51 wizzyrea      oh that was for everyone else :P
13:51 jcamins       And thought "is that really all they did?"
13:51 jcamins       But then I decided they probably did more and just didn't feel like writing release notes.
13:51 wizzyrea      or they didn't, and zebra is just that awesome
13:51 wizzyrea      and bug free.
13:52 jcamins       Heh.
13:53 jcamins       Odd... the javascript doesn't seem to be showing up.
13:54 jcamins       Mystery solved.
13:54 jcamins       Misplaced IF.
13:55 jcamins       It is now working. :)
13:56 Oak           jcamins++
14:06 wizzyrea      well here's your mad scheme of the day
14:06 wizzyrea      "anybody ever tried to use SIP authentication with WordPress?"
14:06 * wizzyrea    ducks
14:06 jcamins       wizzyrea: why?
14:07 wizzyrea      so that you can have patron only password protected areas of your website
14:07 wizzyrea      for say, databases.
14:07 wizzyrea      and keep only one username
14:07 jcamins       Interesting.
14:07 wizzyrea      actually, it would be cool if you could make Koha an OpenID endpoint
14:07 wizzyrea      then you could just use OpenID
14:08 wizzyrea      that solution would require no further work on WordPress.
14:08 jcamins       That would make sense.
14:30 magnuse       openid++
14:35 * jcamins     thinks Myshkin approves as well.
14:35 jcamins       Especially if it openid is a code word for "tummy scratching."
14:40 magnuse       isn't it?
14:41 jcamins       Must be.
14:41 jcamins       He's asleep in his box top (with a tissue paper mattress... what a spoiled cat), and every few minutes he wakes up enough to very theatrically roll around on his back and look at me accusingly before nodding off again.
14:50 Oak           funny
15:11 jcamins       liw: around?
15:20 clrh_         ?
15:25 mtompset      Hello?
15:25 oleonard      Hi mtompset do you have a question?
15:26 mtompset      I thought that perhaps an interactive community might have a better chance at pointing me to SAML 2.0 integration with Koha. :)
15:26 mtompset      I found a thread on some mailing list from March.
15:27 mtompset      But other than that, nothing seems to be out there.
15:28 jcamins       mtompset: a quick wikipedia search on SAML suggests that any work there is on it would be in BibLibre's work on shibboleth, but I've certainly never heard of it before.
15:28 mtompset      I also found Dobrica Pavlinušić's blog.
15:29 mtompset      I suspect that is dpavlin_away right now.
15:29 kf            I think jcamins is right, biblibre said there were working on shibboleth integration with Koha.
15:29 jcamins       mtompset: dpavlin may know something about it, then.
15:29 kf            they were...
15:29 mtompset      Is there any ETAs?
15:29 kf            ETA?
15:29 jcamins       mtompset: no.
15:29 jcamins       Estimated Time of Arrival.
15:30 jcamins       clrh: you don't have a schedule for shibboleth integration, do you?
15:30 mtompset      Well, dpavlin's blog http://blog.rot13.org/2011/06/saml2-sp-with-perl-webapp.html
15:30 mtompset      points at pieces, but I'm not sure I understand how the patchwork works.
15:32 jcamins       Since I have no idea what SAML is (even after skimming Wikipedia), I can't really help you, sorry.
15:32 jcamins       It might be worth sending an e-mail to koha-devel.
15:32 mtompset      It's an protocol definition of how to authenticate and give access to services. At least that's my take on it.
15:32 jcamins       That way when dpavlin isn't away he can respond. :)
15:34 mtompset      Or I could leave a message on their blog. I just don't like signing in and subscribing to things left right and center. :)
15:34 kf            mtompset: when you are working with Koha the mailing list is a must have :)
15:35 clrh          jcamins: we did a first work and I am waiting for customer test installation to validate it
15:35 mtompset      actually, the wiki was good enough for our base install.
15:36 clrh          but I remmeber it was a really "hard thing" to setup architecture (sysop ionfrastructure !?) don't know the god work
15:36 clrh          jcamins: will I see you at edimbourg?
15:36 jcamins       mtompset: installing Koha is one thing. Doing development with it is something else.
15:36 jcamins       clrh: unfortunately not. :(
15:36 jcamins       I'll be presenting via the Internet.
15:36 mtompset      tell me about it, jcamins. :)
15:37 clrh          snif ok I will remember that I have to tell you when we will submit a patch
15:37 jcamins       clrh: mtompset was wondering about it. I'll see the update to Bugzilla. :)
15:37 jcamins       mtompset: actually, developing with Koha is pretty easy.
15:37 jcamins       But you do need to subscribe to the mailing lists.
15:37 * kf          joins clrh in sniffing
15:38 kf            clrh: I wish too jcamins would be there
15:38 clrh          for me snif is like "crying" / be sad
15:38 clrh          ook kf you have the same meaning
15:38 mtompset      okay... on main page... where is the "yes, bombard me with lots of mail that I'll mostly mark as read"?
15:39 jcamins       Support.
15:39 wahanui       i think support is found at http://koha-community.org/support/
15:39 jcamins       mailing lists?
15:39 wahanui       mailing lists are at http://koha-community.org/support/koha-mailing-lists/
15:39 jcamins       ^^ there we go. :)
15:39 mtompset      At least one question got answered. ;)
15:40 kf            mtompset: where are you located?
15:40 mtompset      PH
15:40 mtompset      And you?
15:41 kf            Germany
15:41 * jcamins     is from the US- New York.
15:41 kf            which version did you install?
15:41 mtompset      3.6.3
15:41 mtompset      Though I patched the login with 3.6.4
15:42 mtompset      Tweaked a bunch of styling things.
15:42 jcamins       mtompset: you know, you could just upgrade the entire system.
15:42 mtompset      To make it "fit" our things.
15:42 jcamins       version control with git?
15:42 jcamins       koha version control?
15:42 jcamins       git?
15:42 wahanui       i guess git is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Version_Control_Using_Git
15:42 jcamins       There we go.
15:42 jcamins       You might want to read that document if you haven't already.
15:42 kf            mtompset: yes, updating to 3.6.5 would make sense
15:42 mtompset      Nah, because that would bust the style things. :P
15:43 kf            if it's already annoying with such a small update, you will run into major problems later
15:43 oleonard      Actually using version control is for *not* busting style things
15:43 kf            there are lots of options to style things without making updating a pain
15:43 mtompset      I had to edit existing files.
15:43 kf            not sure what you did, but it might be worth doing some research to save lot sof time and nerves later on
15:44 kf            mtompset: I was afraid you woudl say that - but it's never a good idea
15:44 mtompset      Though I did like the ability to add CSS'.
15:44 kf            in my opinion
15:44 mtompset      I documented my tweaks.
15:44 mtompset      So if we do upgrade, it shouldn't be too hard.
15:45 oleonard      With version control you have the possibility of having git automatically merge your customizations upon upgrade
15:46 mtompset      Haven't used git before, nor koha, nor a lot of the technologies involved in this beautiful mess. :)
15:46 jcamins       mtompset: never too late to learn.
15:47 mtompset      I'd like to keep my learning curve less acute. :)
15:47 jcamins       In that case, learn to use git.
15:47 jcamins       You'll learn real fast how painful upgrades can be if you really want shibboleth.
15:48 kf            mtompset: we really not try to make this hard for you - we try to tell you how it will be easier
15:48 mtompset      I'm also looking at zxid
15:48 jcamins       (the earliest release that could possibly have shibboleth would be 3.10... you'll have forgotten what tweaks you made, and the Koha files will have changed greatly in between 3.6.3 and 3.10)
15:49 kf            I think you could perhaps use CAS
15:49 kf            and it might be that you can get it indirectly working with shibboleth that way but not sure
15:50 mtompset      No... CAS isn't an option.
15:50 kf            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Authentication_Service
15:50 mtompset      I've been told that SAML 2.0 is it, and there is no discussion.
15:50 mtompset      I won't forget the tweaks.
15:50 mtompset      1) /usr/share/koha/intranet/htdocs/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/css/login.css 2) /usr/share/koha/intranet/htdocs/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/includes/doc-head-close.inc 3) /usr/share/koha/intranet/htdocs/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/includes/header.inc 4) /usr/share/koha/intranet/htdocs/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/lib/yui/reset-fonts-grids.css 5) /usr/share/koha/intranet/htdocs/intran
15:51 jcamins       Well, all I can say is, good luck.
15:51 mtompset      and I have the tweaks listed in detail in a file.
15:51 mtompset      That's also why I'm in the midst of setting up 3.8.1 in a VM.
15:52 mtompset      That will give me an idea of how much those particular files have changed.
15:55 mtompset      losing blood sugar subscribing to all these lists... ;)
15:55 oleonard      mtompset: Why change reset-fonts-grids.css when you can override it with a custom stylesheet?
15:56 mtompset      I would... if I knew where to easily.
15:56 mtompset      I wanted it done quickly. :P
15:57 oleonard      intranetstylesheet system preference, or IntranetUserCSS system preference
15:57 oleonard      Quickly now will turn into time-consuming later.
15:58 mtompset      Perhaps... so you are saying that if I put my tweak from the reset-grids.css into the stylesheet that I set up with those system preferences, it will over-ride it?
15:58 oleonard      yes
15:59 mtompset      Because it seemed like some of those sheet were overriding what i was putting into my custom sheet.
15:59 mtompset      I'll try cleaning that up...
15:59 mtompset      See if it works... later.
16:00 oleonard      use the intranetcolorstylesheet if your stylesheet is on your Koha server. use intranetstylesheet if it's at another URL. use IntranetUserCSS if you want the CSS embedded on each page
16:01 mtompset      Okay... this is useful info... now how to save it somewhere to look at.... today. :)
16:01 gaetan_B      bye !
16:02 mtompset      Bye. :)
16:03 mtompset      Okay... does anyone here know about the mess that is Zebra?
16:04 jcamins       mtompset: "Know" is kind of a strong word.
16:04 mtompset      I'm trying to figure out why certain options aren't behaving as expected... perhaps I don't understand the queue or something.
16:04 mtompset      I add an item
16:04 mtompset      -b -a... doesn't show up.
16:04 mtompset      -b -a -r... does show up.
16:05 mtompset      Delete an item...
16:05 mtompset      -b -a -z doesn't remove
16:05 jcamins       searching faq?
16:05 wahanui       searching faq is probably at http://koha-community.org/documentation/faq/
16:05 mtompset      -b -a -r does remove.
16:05 jcamins       You should take a look in that document. It's probably a permissions issue.
16:05 mtompset      I read the documentation... it is drastically lacking explanation.
16:06 kf            patches to the documentation are welcome
16:06 jcamins       You followed the troubleshooting steps that describe this exact problem?
16:06 mtompset      give me the URL... I probably did.
16:06 jcamins       I just did.
16:07 jcamins       Third question from the end.
16:07 mtompset      environment variables are fine.
16:08 mtompset      it is running as the koha user
16:08 mtompset      right there... what directory permissions?
16:09 jcamins       Everything must be owned by your Koha user.
16:09 jcamins       /var/lib/koha/*
16:10 mtompset      yep, it is.
16:10 mtompset      how do I know I'm not running the zebraqueue daemon?
16:10 jcamins       Did you start it?
16:10 jcamins       ps ax | grep zeb
16:11 jcamins       If you see anything that looks like zebraqueue, you are.
16:11 mtompset      3224 ?        Ss     0:00 daemon --name=koha-zebra-ctl.kohadata --errlog=/var/log/koha/koha-zebradaemon.err --stdout=/var/log/koha/koha-zebradaemon.log --output=/var/log/koha/koha-zebradaemon-output.log --verbose=1 --respawn --delay=30 --user=koha koha -- /usr/bin/zebrasrv -v none,fatal,warn -f /etc/koha/koha-conf.xml  3226 ?        S      0:00 /usr/bin/zebr
16:11 mtompset      nothing with a que in it.
16:12 jcamins       Okay, that's correct.
16:13 jcamins       How did you install Koha, out of curiosity?
16:13 mtompset      http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_Ubuntu
16:14 mtompset      I read about the zebraqueue being flaky so chose the crontab way of doing it.
16:14 liw           jcamins, you called?
16:14 mtompset      sudo koha-rebuild-zebra -v –full `/usr/sbin/koha-list`
16:14 mtompset      That's in the DEBIAN scripts.
16:15 mtompset      the script remaps -full to -b -a -r
16:16 jcamins       liw: yes, I'm trying to make a metapackage, and I was wondering if there was any way to have a metapackage with a changelog. It seems like when I add a changelog, it requires a rules file, and I don't want to install anything.
16:16 jcamins       mtompset: so you used packages?
16:17 mtompset      yep... wget the latest.
16:17 mtompset      Which seems to be ancient now. :)
16:17 jcamins       There are frequent updates.
16:17 liw           jcamins, I've used empty packages as metapackages, which means there's no files in them, except /usr/share/doc/$PACKAGE/copyright and changelog.gz
16:17 jcamins       So in order to rebuild Zebra you are running `sudo koha-rebuild-zebra koha`?
16:18 jcamins       liw: do you have an example debian/rules file?
16:18 jcamins       (for that)
16:18 mtompset      No... I'm running UBUNTU. :)
16:19 mtompset      rebuild_zebra.pl -b -a -r
16:19 mtompset      /usr
16:19 mtompset      AH! I had to //
16:19 jcamins       mtompset: okay, then why were you running koha-rebuild-zebra?
16:19 liw           jcamins, "bzr branch http://code.liw.fi/env-liw/bzr/trunk/ env-liw.trunk" should give you something that works for me
16:19 mtompset      /usr/share/koha/bin/migration_tools/
16:20 mtompset      I'm not...
16:20 mtompset      I'm saying the instructions in the FAQ are debian biased.
16:20 mtompset      And that I read the script
16:20 jcamins       mtompset: okay.
16:20 mtompset      and that it remaps -full to ...
16:20 mtompset      /usr/share/koha/bin/migration_tools/rebuild_zebra.pl -b -a -r
16:20 jcamins       Right. -b -a -r is correct.
16:21 mtompset      But -r is a FULL reindex.
16:21 jcamins       liw: thanks!
16:21 mtompset      Isn't -z supposed to be a partial reindex?
16:22 mtompset      If I add something, shouldn't that get into the zebraqueue somehow, so that -z would pick it up?
16:22 jcamins       Yes.
16:22 mtompset      I'm not talking importing a batch, I'm talking manually adding.
16:23 jcamins       Right.
16:23 mtompset      Okay.... so it isn't.
16:23 mtompset      How do I determine where the failure is?
16:23 jcamins       You can check in the zebraqueue table, try and figure out when done is being set to 1.
16:24 mtompset      Hmm... co-ordinate with the user an add entry... watch the zebraqueue table.
16:25 mtompset      oh sucky!
16:25 mtompset      I see some error logs.
16:26 mtompset      Oops... should have included the referer part...
16:26 mtompset      NOT.
16:27 jcamins       You missed a few steps.
16:27 jcamins       And, what version of Ubuntu?
16:27 jcamins       mtompset: you are missing some dependencies.
16:27 jcamins       Run koha_perl_deps.pl -m
16:27 mtompset      I don't think so...
16:27 mtompset      I did a grep for use on the pl scripts and did a mass install.
16:28 mtompset      I also did the dep check script.
16:28 jcamins       And it said you had everything?
16:28 kf            it looks like you are missing lingua snowball
16:28 kf            or whatever that is called correctly
16:28 jcamins       I think Lingua::Stem::Snowball is there, but one of its dependencies is missing.
16:29 mtompset      Line 55 is part of the new() method.
16:32 jenkins_koha  Starting build #739 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
16:33 mtompset      C4::Search requires the snowball
16:37 mtompset      I think I'll debug the problem later.
16:38 mtompset      I think Snowball is being called with an undef parameter, and that causes things to get evil, because there are no undef checks.
16:41 wizzyrea      weird, I run it on ubuntu and I don't have this problem
16:41 huginn`       New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 8159: Fix error in kohastructure.sql <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=64f933a2faa862c4981491f3ca51cf9082ef4254> / Bug 7747 [FOLLOW-UP] Replace YUI autocomplete with jQueryUI <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=f858a6853b17c54799d7d8250d71940d160b5819> / Bug 7747 - Replace YUI autocomplete with jQueryUI <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commi
16:41 wizzyrea      but then again i have all of my dependencies.
16:42 slef          I've been staring at this too long. When someone says classification number, is that items.fullcallnumber in Koha or something else?
16:42 wizzyrea      did you check more -> about -> then click the "perl modules" tab
16:42 wizzyrea      do you have anything missing?
16:42 jcamins       slef: it depends, but *probably* something else.
16:43 slef          jcamins: what would be your favourite bet?
16:44 jcamins       I'd guess 082$a.
16:44 slef          @marc 082 a
16:44 huginn`       slef: Classification number  (Repeatable)
16:44 slef          heh
16:44 jcamins       Of course, it could be that they're using those as the fullcallnumber, too.
16:44 slef          ok let me go look at what went in there before... thanks jcamins
16:44 jcamins       You're welcome.
16:44 slef          no they don't look like fullcallnumber to me... I'm trying to figure out what to put in fullcallnumber too
16:45 jcamins       What do the number look like?
16:46 mtompset      What's the difference between bold items and non-bold items, wizzyrea?
16:46 slef          hehe. Examples include "371.9144 TOW" and "Reading age 6-9yrs. Interest level 7-10yrs"
16:46 wizzyrea      I think required for koha use, and required for specific function
16:46 wizzyrea      for example
16:46 slef          mbalmer?
16:46 wahanui       mbalmer is DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS!!!!!
16:46 slef          mbalmer: was I talking to you about SIP a while ago?
16:47 mbalmer       slef, yes?
16:47 mbalmer       yes!
16:47 wizzyrea      SMS::Send, you don't need for normal koha operation
16:47 mbalmer       I will be in Edinburgh next week
16:47 wizzyrea      it's not bold.
16:47 jcamins       slef: okay, that's fullcallnumber.
16:47 mbalmer       and wahanui is wrong.  that one is ballmer, with to l
16:48 slef          mbalmer: do you want to take an hour or two out to do a sip3 teleconference with 3M?
16:48 mtompset      Okay...
16:48 mtompset      So what version of Lingua::Stem::Snowball do you have?
16:48 mbalmer       sure.  in edinburgh of before?
16:48 wizzyrea      .0952
16:48 jcamins       slef: that's probably fullcallnumber, and you need to extract the numeric bit to stick in 082$a.
16:49 mtompset      As do I... I noticed it uses Carp and Exporter.
16:49 mtompset      Do you know what versions you have of those?
16:49 wizzyrea      basically, if it's red and says "not installed"
16:49 wizzyrea      then you have a problem.
16:49 mtompset      All mine are black.
16:50 mtompset      Most are bold.
16:50 mtompset      Can you tell me your versions of Carp and Exporter?
16:51 mtompset      Because line 55 has $self->_derive_stemmer
16:51 mtompset      And I can't find the definition of _derive_stemmer in the snowball.
16:51 mtompset      So, I figure it must be in Carp or Exporter
16:51 slef          mbalmer: it'd be in edinburgh. I can forward you the invitation email. It's something silly like 3pm on the 5th June.
16:51 slef          mbalmer: I can't do it for various reasons, but I didn't know if it would interest you. No worries if you would rather pay attention to conference.
16:51 slef          mbalmer: message me your email address if you'd like me to forward it.
16:51 slef          jcamins: yummy :-/
16:51 wizzyrea      http://screencast.com/t/iXqTjlSF
16:52 slef          jcamins: of course, the list of biblionumber and these classifications is yet another file...
16:52 mtompset      Carp and Exporter aren't listed there.
16:52 mtompset      You have to look manually.
16:53 jcamins       slef: awesome!
16:53 mbalmer       slef, I will only join the event on june 6, so june 5 3pm I think I could attend from .ch.  3pm which timezone?
16:53 wizzyrea      CGI::Carp is
16:54 mtompset      not CGI::Carp
16:54 wizzyrea      then it's not listed
16:54 mtompset      Snowball says Carp and Exporter.
16:54 wizzyrea      sounds like you've got it all figured out.
16:54 slef          mbalmer: 3pm UK I think.  The email gives it in US Eastern IIRC.
16:54 mtompset      That's why i'm asking you what versions you have.
16:55 mtompset      Perhaps newer versions break it.
16:55 mbalmer       slef, that sounds like I could be available.  Thanks for letting me know about it, btw!
16:56 wizzyrea      lingua probably has it's own dependencies that you are missing. they might not be listed in the koha dependencies.
16:57 mtompset      Yes.... and they are Carp and Exporter.
16:57 mtompset      I'm looking at the code.
16:57 mtompset      I would like to know what versions you have.
17:02 mtompset      Well, I'm off.
17:02 mtompset      Thanks for the help and suggestions.
17:02 mtompset      Too bad it didn't solve everything, but it gave me some ideas.
17:05 oleonard      mtompset: I have a standard install of Ubuntu 12.04 and a by-the-book installation of Koha and I don't have a problem with Snowball. This suggests a problem with dependencies on your machine.
17:08 mtompset      I agree.
17:08 mtompset      But finding them is going to be a pain.
17:08 mtompset      I don't want to reinstall from scratch.
17:09 mtompset      Not when the system is being used to get the data current before going live.
17:09 mtompset      Anyways... have a good day (24 hour period) everyone.
17:13 slef          "Your PayPal Account Access Has Been Restored"
17:13 schuster      wizzyrea_away you back?
17:14 jcamins       Woohoo!
17:14 * jcamins     throws a Paypal party.
17:15 slef          jcamins: TimeWorked: 262 minutes
17:17 * liw         runs: gedit obnam-1.0-announcement.mdwn
17:17 liw           egh, sorry, wrong channel
17:18 jcamins       Ooh, obnam 1.0 is released? Cool!
17:18 liw           jcamins, not until tomorrow, I just want to draft the announcement now
17:18 * Oak         googles obnam
17:19 kf            slef: yay!
17:19 Oak           slef++
17:19 Oak           stop sulking now
17:20 * Oak         gives slef ice cream
17:20 slef          Oak: when we get the money out...
17:21 Oak           ah yes
17:21 slef          I don't think that was a scam email but... ;)
17:21 Oak           let's put the ice cream back in the fridge then
17:21 Oak           :) hm
17:21 slef          I'll do that in a mo
17:22 kf            slef++ :)
17:23 Oak           kf time to go home
17:24 kf            I know, but still have to do some things
17:24 Oak           things will never end, you know
17:25 jcamins       kf: Oak is right about that.
17:25 kf            2 weeks vacation starting next week
17:25 Oak           :)
17:25 Oak           fine, you win
17:25 mbalmer       woa
17:26 jenkins_koha  Project Koha_master build #739: UNSTABLE in 53 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/739/
17:26 jenkins_koha  * kyle: Bug 8140 - [SIGNED-OFF] Error when exporting label xml
17:26 jenkins_koha  * oleonard: Bug 7747 - Replace YUI autocomplete with jQueryUI
17:26 jenkins_koha  * oleonard: Bug 7747 [FOLLOW-UP] Replace YUI autocomplete with jQueryUI
17:26 jenkins_koha  * jcamins: Bug 8159: Fix error in kohastructure.sql
17:26 huginn`       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8140 blocker, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Pushed to Master , Error when exporting label xml
17:26 mbalmer       is that deserved, kf ;) ?
17:26 huginn`       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7747 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Stable , Replace YUI autocomplete with jQueryUI
17:26 huginn`       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8159 critical, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Pushed to Master , Error in kohastructure.sql
17:27 jcamins       What do you mean, Jenkins build became unstable?
17:28 kf            mbalmer: deserved or not, I need one :)
17:28 mbalmer       heh...;)
17:31 * magnuse     discovers "prove -m -Q --formatter=TAP::Formatter::HTML"
17:40 kf            magnuse: what does that do?
17:45 Oak           kf it sends people home who work too much
17:45 magnuse       kf: formatts the output of prove nicely as an html page
17:46 Oak           and that too
17:46 Oak           of course
17:48 kf            lol
17:48 kf            Oak++ .)
17:49 Oak           :)
18:00 mtompset      I couldn't sleep knowing there was a bug.
18:00 mtompset      I found it!
18:00 mtompset      There's a typo in addbooks.pl
18:01 mtompset      Hello?
18:01 mtompset      Is there where I mail one of the lists and tell them about it?
18:02 jcamins       Well, first you have to confirm that it hasn't already been fixed.
18:02 jwagner       Check bugzilla to be sure it hasn't already been reported, and then create a bug report for it
18:02 jwagner       http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/
18:02 jcamins       If it hasn't been, you report a bug for it.
18:05 mtompset      I've got 3.8.1 -- 3.8.5 is the most current?
18:05 jcamins       3.8.1 is the most current on the 3.8.x line, and 3.6.5 is the most current on the 3.6.x line.
18:05 jcamins       mtompset: weren't you on 3.6.3 about an hour ago?
18:05 wizzyrea_away schuster - back now
18:05 mtompset      I have two versions.
18:05 mtompset      3.6.3 is the one being used.
18:06 mtompset      I checked 3.8.1 which I'm tinkering with on the side.
18:06 mtompset      They both have the same bug
18:07 mtompset      To think a tiny \ can make a big difference!
18:07 mtompset      If you go to Cataloguing.
18:07 mtompset      Then do a search.
18:08 mtompset      You will trigger the error in the error log.
18:08 mtompset      But all the other searches don't trigger the error.
18:08 mtompset      Only the search from Cataloguing.
18:08 wizzyrea      wait what's the actual problem
18:09 wizzyrea      the first question?
18:09 wahanui       "What are you trying to do?"  "What is the goal?" or "What problem are you experiencing?"
18:09 mtompset      No apparent problem.
18:09 mtompset      My goal is to stop error messages from filling the error log.
18:09 wizzyrea      oh, that's noble.
18:09 wizzyrea      (seriously :))
18:09 mtompset      Because the search appears to work for the end user.
18:10 mtompset      buildQuery(\@operators,\@operands,\@indexes,@limits,\@sort_by,undef,undef);
18:10 mtompset      See the @limits? There's no \ on it.
18:11 mtompset      my @operands  = $operands  ? @$operands  : ();     my @limits    = $limits    ? @$limits    : ();     my @sort_by   = $sort_by   ? @$sort_by   : ();
18:11 * wizzyrea    checks that on her 3.9 system… sec
18:11 mtompset      Looks ugly, but as you can see the buildQuert code treats indexes, limits, and sort_by the same.
18:12 mtompset      buildQuery...
18:12 jcamins       mtompset: buildQuery is a rather horrifying routine, alas.
18:12 wizzyrea      what was the error you were seeing
18:12 mtompset      The snowball one.
18:12 * wizzyrea    does not get that one
18:13 wizzyrea      I do however get this one: [Thu May 31 13:25:02 2012] [error] [client 192.168.1.137] [Thu May 31 13:25:02 2012] addbooks.pl: Illegal date specified (year = 2007, month = 7, day = 00) at /home/liz/kohaclone/C4/Search.pm line 1656, referer: http://koha-staff.lan.nekls.org/cgi-bin/koha/cataloguing/addbooks.pl
18:13 wizzyrea      but the search works.
18:13 wizzyrea      that *could* be bad data.
18:14 mtompset      Really? Maybe they fixed it in a later version.
18:14 wizzyrea      well this is juuuuust beyond 3.8.1
18:14 wizzyrea      I highly doubt it.
18:14 mtompset      I'll bug report it.
18:14 wizzyrea      probably the best plan
18:14 mtompset      I did a search for addbooks.pl
18:14 mtompset      Saw only 7 bugs.
18:15 wizzyrea      mm, try cataloging search
18:15 wizzyrea      too.
18:16 mtompset      Okay.... I guess the person might not have narrowed it down to addbooks.pl
18:17 wizzyrea      probably not - we get all levels of users reporting bugs.
18:17 wizzyrea      (it is both glorious and occasionally frustrating)
18:17 wizzyrea      but we deal :)
18:17 slef          @query Illegal date specified
18:17 huginn`       slef: No results for "Illegal date specified."
18:18 wizzyrea      interestingly, i also get this one; [Thu May 31 13:31:15 2012] [error] [client 192.168.1.137] [Thu May 31 13:31:15 2012] addbooks.pl: Use of uninitialized value in numeric eq (==) at /home/liz/kohaclone/C4/XSLT.pm line 249., referer: http://koha-staff.lan.nekls.org/cgi-bin/koha/cataloguing/addbooks.pl?q=addbooks.pl
18:18 wizzyrea      not even the same thing!
18:18 wizzyrea      and the other error didn't recur.
18:19 mtompset      Which probably ties to the same bug...
18:19 wizzyrea      different query
18:19 slef          @query Use of uninitialized value in numeric eq
18:19 huginn`       slef: No results for "Use of uninitialized value in numeric eq."
18:19 slef          huginn`: you're a bit useless today.
18:19 huginn`       slef: downloading the Perl source
18:21 mtompset      wizzyrea, could you take a look at /usr/share/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/cataloguing/addbooks.pl and tell me if there is a \ on the @limits?
18:21 wizzyrea      yep
18:21 mtompset      line 75
18:22 wizzyrea      no slash
18:22 jcamins       Bah. I stuck the apt repo on an old VPS, and apparently a lot of people (including me) decided to hit it at the same time, bringing it down.
18:23 wizzyrea      putting it in doesn't make the error go away
18:24 slef          mtompset: line 1038 of /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Search.pm does suggest it should have a \ I think
18:24 jcamins       Oh, it certainly needs the \.
18:25 slef          mtompset: without it, the rest of the parameters to buildQuery will be ignored IIRC
18:25 mtompset      It will dereference incorrectly.
18:26 mtompset      Perhaps...
18:26 mtompset      Anyways...
18:26 mtompset      It solves one thing, but not what I was hoping for yet.
18:28 Oak           but still
18:28 Oak           mtompset++
18:28 Oak           jcamins, is it up now?
18:29 mtompset      Oh sucky! I have to register for bugzilla too?!
18:29 kf            yes
18:29 kf            bye all :)
18:29 Oak           finally
18:29 jcamins       Oak: it was briefly.
18:29 Oak           bye kf
18:29 jcamins       Then I think it went back down.
18:29 wizzyrea      later kf
18:29 kf            Oak: :P
18:29 Oak           hmm.
18:30 wizzyrea      I'm really wondering if these errors, at least the date one
18:30 wizzyrea      I think it's bad data.
18:30 wizzyrea      bc it only happens on one specific query.
18:31 wizzyrea      yep, I found the offending record.
18:31 wizzyrea      also - jcamins- this may interest you
18:31 wizzyrea      [Thu May 31 13:42:11 2012] [error] [client 192.168.1.137] [Thu May 31 13:42:11 2012] detail.pl: Use of uninitialized value $countanalytics in numeric gt (>) at /home/liz/kohaclone/catalogue/detail.pl line 256., referer: http://koha-staff.lan.nekls.org/cgi-bin/koha/catalogue/MARCdetail.pl?biblionumber=915
18:32 jcamins       wizzyrea: a patch was submitted for that.
18:32 wizzyrea      k
18:32 wizzyrea      just checking.
18:32 Oak           me go now. sleep time.
18:32 Oak           wizzyrea++
18:32 Oak           jcamins++
18:34 wizzyrea      pf I didn't do anything
18:34 slef          wahanui: manual
18:34 wahanui       manual is at http://www.koha-community.org/documentation
18:37 mtompset      is wahanui a bot?
18:38 jcamins       Yup.
18:38 mtompset      Bug 8172 added. :)
18:38 wizzyrea      a pretty clever one.
18:38 huginn`       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8172 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Missing dereference marker for buildQuery parameter in addbooks.pl
18:41 mtompset      Is huginn` a bot too?
18:41 sekjal        yup
18:42 * sekjal      is coding in a bar again… everyone watch out!
18:42 wizzyrea      LOOKOUT
18:43 slef          sekjal: | is a pipe, not a bar
18:43 slef          wahanui: bots?
18:43 wahanui       bots are listed at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/IRC_Regulars
18:43 slef          wahanui: ta
18:43 wahanui       slef: i'm not following you...
18:44 slef          wahanui: thank you
18:44 wahanui       slef: sure thing
18:44 slef          wahanui: como Nicholas Cage en Leaving Las Vegas...
18:44 wahanui       slef: what?
18:44 slef          wahanui: idiot
18:44 wahanui       slef: huh?
18:45 slef          wahanui: die!
18:45 wahanui       errrrgh arrrrgh stop it that tickles a bit!
18:48 magnuse       lol
18:49 wizzyrea      he's almost sentient.
18:50 jcamins       #introduction
18:50 jcamins       #introductions
18:50 jcamins       #topic Introductions
18:50 wahanui       #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
18:50 jcamins       ^^ see.
18:50 wizzyrea      oh, no almost about it. :)
18:52 sekjal        does anyone recall the latest verdict on management of Lists belonging to deleted users?
18:52 sekjal        I believe they can only be dealt with by the Koha root user… is that true?
18:53 jcamins       sekjal: right now, yes.
18:53 sekjal        great, thanks jcamins
18:53 jcamins       sekjal: marcelr's been fixing the list permissions slowly but surely to fix that, though.
18:53 sekjal        working on bug 8164, and that's one of the areas where testing will be needed
18:53 huginn`       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8164 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Replace IFNULL() with COALESCE() in all database calls
19:05 mtompset      Goodbye, everyone. Talk with you later.
19:09 sekjal        argh!  Why is there a Unicode character for "pile of poo", but not for a shopping cart?!
19:10 jcamins       lol
19:10 cait          lobby?
19:10 mbalmer       its the same.
19:22 sekjal        … is "Save to your lists" broken on opac-detail.pl ?
19:22 sekjal        I'm getting a 404
19:22 jcamins       sekjal: it wasn't when I tested marcelr's patch yesterdayish.
19:22 sekjal        hmmm… could just by my config, I suppose
19:22 sekjal        I'm on a pretty stark test DB
19:25 sekjal        hmmm… it's not the most recent change to opac-addbybiblionumber.pl
19:25 jcamins       sekjal: I'm not sure if the patch was pushed.
19:25 jcamins       (yet)
19:26 sekjal        not yet
19:26 sekjal        there was one circ March 22
19:26 sekjal        that's not it
19:26 sekjal        ah, well.  time to go
19:26 sekjal        later, all!
19:40 rangi         Morning
19:40 cait          morning rangi :)
19:43 wizzyrea      peeps - please remember to check on your stuff in failed qa
19:43 wizzyrea      there's lots of good stuff in there that needs to get in
19:44 rangi         Can u mail koha-devel
19:45 rangi         I suspect this is the choir in here :)
19:46 wizzyrea      yes. I will do that
19:48 rangi         Thanks
19:48 wajasu        i'm working on a script that builds a libvirt based vm (kvm in my case) for debiansqueeze. as long as you have a bridge already configured to the internet, it will build debiansqueeze(standard+mysql-server+mysql-client+web-server) with no prompts using a preseed.cfg. I'm going to add koha's deb, and later git.  the image can be reused as a base image, or hopefully for one-off patch work.
19:49 wizzyrea      oo, cool.
19:52 cait          wizzyrea++ :)
19:53 wizzyrea      what?!
19:53 wizzyrea      what'd I do
19:56 cait          write a good mail? :)
19:56 wajasu        then maybe one could grab the image, boot it, sync with git master, make fix, test, make git commit, run a kohapatch script to prepare the patch and instruct on how to a) push to bug report, b) send to list serv,  etc,  also, a script could pull and patch the vm just like sandbox.pl does.
19:56 cait          having a lovely signature? "I geek koha"? being awesome?
19:56 wizzyrea      hehe
19:56 wizzyrea      well thank you :)
19:58 rangi         wasaju++
20:01 rangi         slef: around?
20:01 slef          rangi: momentarily, bbi30 after that
20:04 rangi         Get my email?
20:05 slef          rangi: get my reply?
20:05 slef          (oonly just sent)
20:05 rangi         Cool will look
20:07 rangi         Sweet ill email them back when I get to work thanks
20:31 rangi         morning kathryn
20:32 kathryn       morning rangi :)
20:32 kathryn       and morning all
20:33 Elay          Wow. I'm finally here. Sorry for the interruption.
20:34 rangi         heya Elay :)
20:34 rangi         Elay = lenora .. say hi everyone who is still awake :)
20:34 * rangi       is chris c
20:34 Elay          I'm at the StreamNet Library, Portland, Oregon, U.S.
20:34 jcamins       Hi Elay.
20:34 rangi         now you are on irc, you can join us for meetings and stuff in the future if you want too :)
20:35 Elay          what, participate?
20:35 rangi         hehe
20:35 rangi         it's a crazy concept!
20:35 Elay          Can I just say that I LOVE Koha?
20:36 cait          hi Elay
20:36 rangi         you can stay then :)
20:36 cait          and morning kathryn
20:36 cait          :)
20:36 Elay          And now, I want to learn to code so I can play even more...
20:36 Elay          Hi, cait & jcamins
20:37 rangi         got your email Elay
20:37 Elay          My family all code in various languages, except Perl.
20:37 Elay          So, I'm really just giving in. Resistance is futile.
20:37 rangi         so the file you want to look at is C4/Templates.pm
20:38 Elay          Hm.
20:38 rangi         now the trick is, you use windows eh?
20:38 rangi         hmm darn owen has gone home
20:38 Elay          I've got putty.
20:38 rangi         ohh cool
20:38 Elay          My tech support person is weaning me off Windows to linux
20:38 rangi         good person
20:38 Elay          Trick is to get to where I need to be
20:39 rangi         friends don't let friends use proprietary software ;-)
20:39 Elay          Love that. I'm putting that on my favorite quotes.
20:39 rangi         so, do you know if on your linux box that you can connect to with putty, if there is a git checkout of koha?
20:40 * kathryn     waves at cait :)
20:40 Elay          I connect to my server via Putty
20:40 rangi         cool
20:40 Elay          so, question is, I have command prompt, how to I get to directory (DOS days are so far gone)
20:41 Elay          I know that ages me.
20:41 rangi         so we could edit the patch in situ on the server, but then a plague of sysadmins would reign fire down on me for telling you to do that
20:41 rangi         rain
20:41 rangi         even
20:41 rangi         Elay: cd
20:41 Elay          so would my sysadmin
20:41 rangi         cd /where/i/want/to/go
20:42 Elay          ls gives me nothing, so I have no directories?
20:43 Elay          dir gives me
20:43 rangi         ls
20:43 Elay          bin  dev etc initrd.img lost+found mnt proc sbin srv temp var
20:43 rangi         not dir
20:43 Elay          boot Docs home lib media opt root selinux sys usr vmlinuz
20:43 rangi         well dir might work if someone has been nice to you, and aliased it :)
20:43 rangi         what user to do you login as?
20:44 Elay          whatever sysadmin gave me
20:44 rangi         ahh
20:44 Elay          damn, I'm lame
20:44 rangi         type
20:44 rangi         whoami
20:44 rangi         then
20:44 rangi         pwd
20:44 rangi         pwd will tell where you are
20:45 Elay          oftl
20:45 Elay          at /home/oftl
20:46 Elay          Can I download the software to a local drive rather than trying to retrieve from server?
20:47 rangi         yep
20:48 rangi         thats why i was wanting to see if owen was around, he uses git in windows .. i don't know how to do that im afraid
20:48 jcamins       rangi: he does?
20:48 jcamins       He's a saint!
20:48 rangi         well maybe not anymore, he did once tho
20:48 Elay          can't I put in a partition and split my drive for a linux side or is that way too hard?
20:49 rangi         oh, you could put a linux virtualmachine on
20:49 rangi         thats what a lot of people do
20:49 rangi         chris_n: do you do that?
20:50 rangi         im pretty much useless for anything to do with windows im afraid
20:50 rangi         actually cait does i think
20:50 cait          I do what? :)
20:51 cait          we are using windows at work, so I have a virtualbox with koha there
20:51 rangi         have a linux virtual machine on linux
20:51 jcamins       I'd recommend Virtualbox.
20:51 rangi         that
20:51 jcamins       That's how cait does it.
20:51 cait          well... if cait is not messing it up... like she did yesterday :(
20:51 cait          but that was my fault, it used to work pretty nicely
20:51 rangi         https://www.virtualbox.org/
20:52 * jcamins     successfully created a Koha test AMI for himself.
20:52 Elay          Windows hosts?
20:53 cait          windows is the host
20:53 cait          and linux will be the guest :)
20:55 Elay          Gotcha
21:09 jcamins       The problem is probably Ubuntu 12.04, not user error.
21:09 jcamins       Unfortunately, that's the extent of my wisdom.
21:09 rangi         annoying
21:10 jcamins       Yeah. I can't really offer that as "advice" on the mailing list.
21:20 Elay          Whoops. VirtualMachine cut off some of my connections on install.
21:20 rangi         helpful of it :)
21:20 cait          ah sorry, I should have warned you
21:20 Elay          eh, one of those things
21:21 cait          next you should download your linux of choice
21:21 Elay          debian.org?
21:21 jcamins       Yes.
21:22 jcamins       Debian is a very good choice.
21:22 cait          I was using ubuntu in the past, but I think debian would be a good choice
21:22 rangi         debian squeeze would be mine
21:22 * jcamins     is on an anti-Ubuntu kick.
21:22 cait          as I have to start over again anyway... I might try debian too :)
21:22 Elay          I think sysadmin prefers debian squeeze as welll
21:22 rangi         squeeze is rock solid
21:23 * jcamins     has been setting up Squeeze servers all day.
21:24 jcamins       We're on number... six? Seven? I last cont.
21:24 jcamins       *count
21:25 wizzyrea      has anyone ever gotten the SIP tests to run?
21:25 wizzyrea      I'm trying to get them to, but I am failing. Miserably.
21:25 Elay          i386?
21:25 wizzyrea      is the target computer 32 bit or 64?
21:25 jcamins       wizzyrea: I have, but I don't remember what I did.
21:26 wizzyrea      curses.
21:26 Elay          xp
21:26 wizzyrea      that means it's me.
21:26 jcamins       wizzyrea: it took a lot of work.
21:26 Elay          lame, argh, I have fallen so far behind the friggin' curve
21:26 jcamins       Elay: how much memory does it have?
21:27 Elay          RAM is 3072
21:28 Elay          hard drive is 150 GB
21:28 jcamins       Elay: in that case you might as well go with i386.
21:28 Elay          oh, good. I guessed right!
21:28 * jcamins     always uses amd64, but your computer is old enough that it might not be 64-bit.
21:29 Elay          is 2 yo. But can't upgrade until 3.
21:29 jcamins       And it's running XP? I thought XP was a 9yo OS.
21:29 jcamins       Anyway, i386 will work just fine. :)
21:30 * jcamins     hasn't used Windows in a very, very long time.
21:30 jcamins       Probably got XP confused with something else.
21:30 rangi         jcamins: vista sucked so much
21:30 rangi         lots of ppl just stayed with xp
21:30 wizzyrea      ^^
21:30 Elay          I skipped right over Vista.
21:31 rangi         yeah xp, until windows 7
21:31 Elay          But got DH a computer with it, partially as revenge
21:31 Elay          Was very cruel, I know
21:31 rangi         pretty much every IT dept i know did that
21:31 Elay          cuz I broke my home laptop and now have to share his computer.
21:31 rangi         :)
21:31 * wizzyrea    imagines elay rubbing his/her hands together evilly
21:31 Elay          karma sucks
21:31 wahanui       sucks has neutral karma
21:31 Elay          her
21:32 rangi         i install linux on every computer i touch, fair warning if we ever meet at kohacon again :)
21:32 wizzyrea      excellent, we can practice our evil laughs together.
21:32 Elay          will already be done on my new laptop
21:33 * jcamins     restores a 2.8GB Koha database.
21:33 Elay          so, while we're waiting for download...should I go large (17") or smaller for new laptop?
21:34 Elay          Have an android tablet already. Yes, I have bought into the Don't Be Evil Empire.
21:34 wizzyrea      what are you going to use it for?
21:34 Elay          website development
21:34 Elay          coding if I ever get to learn Perl...
21:34 wizzyrea      get a middle sized one.
21:34 wizzyrea      travel a lot/
21:34 wizzyrea      ?
21:35 Elay          yes, but generally won't be doing much web or code while traveling
21:35 Elay          so have tablet for travel.
21:35 wizzyrea      so this laptop, will it sit on your lap much?
21:35 Elay          all the time, have a very comfy recliner
21:35 wizzyrea      get a middle sized one.
21:35 wizzyrea      :)
21:35 wizzyrea      14 or 15
21:35 wahanui       15
21:36 rangi         get a zareason.com one
21:36 rangi         :)
21:36 ibeardslee    oh, and they have an NZ company now
21:36 rangi         they do :)
21:37 jcamins       Ooh. They have 16GB laptops.
21:37 rangi         eythian has one jcamins
21:38 rangi         mine is only a paltry 8GB
21:38 rangi         i really like it tho
21:38 * jcamins     has 8GB in his laptop.
21:38 * wizzyrea    too
21:38 jcamins       Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with the laptop.
21:38 jcamins       But, there are days.
21:38 rangi         i have https://zareason.com/shop/Alto-3880.html
21:38 rangi         with debian squeeze and 8 gig
21:38 jcamins       Like today. When I have 67MB of RAM free.
21:38 rangi         its very nice
21:39 * cait        has 8 too
21:39 jcamins       (and 3GB swapped out, darn it)
21:39 jcamins       Okay, but do they sell to the US?
21:39 ibeardslee    yes
21:39 jcamins       (not that I'm buying a laptop, I'm just curious)
21:40 jcamins       Their website is a bit too minimalistic for my taste.
21:40 ibeardslee    rangi and I are just excited that they are setting up shop in NZ, so we can now buy linux laptops
21:40 jcamins       Oh, they're based in Berkeley.
21:40 Elay          ok, Debian is done downloading
21:41 jcamins       Wow. Their prices are kind of remarkable.
21:44 Elay          What kind of disk do I want to create?
21:44 Elay          VDI, VMDK, VHD, HDD
21:45 cait          I think I used what was suggested, but someone might have better advice
21:46 jcamins       I just use the default.
21:49 * jcamins     realizes that he should have put home on a different volume.
21:49 jcamins       Too late, of course.
21:54 Elay          ok. time for me to go for today
21:54 Elay          will work on the virtual machine later
21:55 rangi         cool
22:08 rangi         oh hey
22:08 rangi         david nind is editing the wiki
22:08 rangi         so it must be working for new users again
22:08 rangi         http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Release_Announcements  <-- good idea
22:19 jcamins       Hey, is there any reason that Plack couldn't be chrooted? It seems to me that the web server does not need access to any (Koha-specific) files other than koha-conf.xml and /usr/share/koha.
22:20 cjh           it would also need access to all the perl modules, but otherwise I cant think of any reason why not
22:21 rangi         yeah chrooted should work
22:23 jcamins       Seems to me like that might be a good idea.
22:23 rangi         its not a bad idea
22:27 slef          yengh... what do I need to send speakers? File formats, screen size, a link to the programme and a see-you-soon?
22:29 rangi         yeah sounds good
22:29 rangi         slef: mine is just html/javascript so should work on anything
22:30 rangi         ill have my laptop, but am happy to just transfer it to the presentation machine too
22:33 * jcamins     will probably record a video, so that there's a handout of sorts.
22:34 cjh           are the presentations being recorded?
22:37 slef          cjh: yes but no promises yet on quality, sadly
22:37 cjh           worst case having access to the slides would work as well
22:38 slef          if we can get the wifi up and there's enough power, I may be able to stream live
22:39 cjh           so I can watch the presentations in my sleep )
22:39 cjh           that should
22:39 cjh           sorry a bird is typing on my keyboard... that should've been a :)
22:39 slef          http://bambuser.com/channel/mjray
22:39 slef          is where it would be
22:40 cjh           thanks :)
22:40 slef          hey, it may all be different
22:40 slef          I may be misleading you, getting my lies in early
22:43 eythian       I'll probably be plugging my laptop in, especially for the hackfest part.
22:43 eythian       I assume we'll have wifi for that, otherwise things won't work so well.
22:44 * eythian     needs to write the hackfest part still
22:44 rangi         oh yeah i meant just the kohacon bit
22:44 rangi         and yeah me too
22:44 eythian       I think that'll be today and tomorrow.
22:47 rangi         actually i need to rejig my main talk a bit
22:47 eythian       Mine needs review, as it's been a few days since I finished it.
22:47 eythian       So I need to look at it fresh
22:53 slef          I'm worried that we'll be bugfixing the wifi but it wouldn't be the first conference that's happened at.
22:54 slef          but that's just me looking on the dark side again.
22:54 rangi         :) worst comes to worst I can tether
22:55 slef          it irritates me when I have to tether because the wifi is so obnoxious
22:55 slef          but it happens a lot
22:55 rangi         *nod*
22:55 slef          it's like where I'm sat now
22:56 rangi         holy crap
22:56 rangi         how long has the save bar floated in the marc editor?
22:56 slef          I'm on 3G dongle because it's cheaper than the wifi :-/
22:56 rangi         that's awesome!
22:56 slef          since the blue 3.8 UI changes I think
22:56 * rangi       likes
22:56 rangi         having to scroll back to the top was a pet peeve
22:57 jcamins       rangi: no, much longer.
22:58 slef          page down pages down more than a page, though... not a big problem in the marc editor though, as most people don
22:58 slef          t jump through that fast.
22:58 slef          because the bit obscured by the floating bar isn't taken off of page-down distance by firefox
22:59 eythian       definitely in 3.6
22:59 eythian       slef: what sort of data plans will a prepay SIM card have there?
23:00 jcamins       eythian: any chance I could persuade you to set up an oldstable dist during the hackfest? :)
23:00 eythian       jcamins: it seems like a plausible thing for me to do :)
23:00 eythian       also larsw will be there to help me :)
23:00 eythian       liw rather
23:01 jcamins       :)
23:02 rangi         speaking of which, after i have had a refresher of his tutorial i plan to run one here
23:03 eythian       cool
23:04 jcamins       I _really_ want that one to be recorded.
23:04 rangi         :)
23:04 eythian       jcamins: you could just come to Edinburgh you know. It's not far from where you are.
23:04 eythian       relatively speaking.
23:04 eythian       It's the same hemisphere even
23:05 jcamins       lol
23:10 rangi         bug 8171 confuses me
23:10 huginn`       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8171 normal, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Improper escaping of quotes during z39.50 queries leads to potential malicious code execution
23:11 slef          eythian: prepay for data only or in a phone?
23:12 eythian       slef: phone
23:12 slef          eythian: no clue, sorry. Have you tried the link on the wiki? If it doesn't help, I can ask around.
23:12 slef          wahanui: kohacon12?
23:12 wahanui       kohacon12 is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Category:KohaCon12 or Conference Tue 5 June 2012 to Thu 7th, Hackfest Sat 9th June-Mon 11th June
23:13 slef          eythian: it's on the summary page
23:13 eythian       slef: no, it's OK. I was just wondering if you knew off the top of your head
23:13 eythian       rangi: that bug is totally wrong
23:13 eythian       I think the person doesn't know perl.
23:13 eythian       (well, the quotes not working thing may be correct, but the rest of it not so much)
23:13 rangi         yeah
23:14 slef          eythian: looks like £10/Gb if you do it right, similar to prepay data-only, actually.
23:14 rangi         updating now
23:14 slef          (o2 web bolt-on)
23:15 eythian       slef: that sounds ideal
23:15 slef          http://www.o2.co.uk/tariffs/payandgo "The Works"
23:15 eythian       more expensive than what I pay here, oddly enough :)
23:16 slef          for prepay?
23:16 eythian       but not terribly so
23:16 eythian       not for prepay
23:16 eythian       I have some bizarre non-stop promo plan
23:16 slef          you get gouged on prepay
23:16 rangi         yeah we sure do
23:16 eythian       3GB/mo for NZ$40
23:16 eythian       near enough to £20
23:16 slef          heh I meant in the UK but never mind
23:16 eythian       but it's not supposed to exist
23:20 slef          coo... looks like o2 and 3 are cheapest... interesting to know
23:21 slef          I think for customer service vodafone = t-mobile > o2 > 3 > orange
23:22 slef          hmmm  Tesco £7.50 for 1Gb for one month
23:22 slef          but they're a bad company
23:23 slef          Tescopoly.org - Every Little Hurts
23:24 slef          bbl
23:52 * Oak         goes back to sleep