Time  Nick             Message
00:10 * slef           falls asleep, but thanks rangi
00:52 rangi            w00t
00:52 rangi            http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/lastBuild/console
00:55 druthb           o/
00:56 rangi            hey druthb
00:56 druthb           hi, rangi!  *hug*
00:58 rangi            hows the choir going?
00:58 druthb           wonderfully!  I had something really amazing happen monday before last during our tea break.
00:59 rangi            oh?
00:59 druthb           They announced that board elections are coming up, and they need at least five, and up to eleven, to join the board.  So I was thinking over throwing my hat in the ring, and two current board members came up and asked me if I'd accept a nomination from them.
01:00 rangi            excellent :)
01:00 druthb           To the kid who always got picked last, and who has *never* been the go-to, this was just huge.  Took all I had not to cry like a lil girl.
01:00 rangi            heh :)
01:01 druthb           Kind of emboldend me a lil, I guess...today, I joined PerlMonks, and am one point away from no longer being an Initiate.
01:01 rangi            oohh well done
01:01 druthb           answered a couple of questions, helped on one...and racked up 19 XP.
01:02 rangi            sweet
01:02 rangi            we should start kohamonks.org
01:02 rangi            we already have actual monks :)
01:02 * druthb         puts on her robes.
01:03 druthb           The only thing is, there, they've decided against having gender-centric terms for us fems.  All the titles are masculine forms.
01:03 * druthb         would be a Koha nun.  ;-)
01:06 * druthb         chants "pie jesu domine", and whacks herself on the forehead with a flat board.
01:08 rangi            heh
01:08 ibeardslee       harder
01:09 druthb           :P
01:10 rangi            http://div.libriotech.no/kohamisc/gbsd/gbsd10/hourlystatus-gbsd10.txt
02:04 ibeardslee       rangi: would you have anyone in mind to back you up for those sessions?
02:05 rangi            maybe chrish .. maybe kristina .. dont want to volunteer ppl without checking tho
02:05 ibeardslee       eg in the event asking for hot chips on the Friday night goes wrong ;)
02:06 rangi            heh, i think chrish or robin
02:09 ibeardslee       I think eythian would probably usually be out on the Saturday.
02:09 rangi            yup
02:10 ibeardslee       anyway email inbound
02:10 rangi            ta
02:11 rangi            !jenkins build Master_Packages now
02:11 jenkins_koha     rangi: job Master_Packages build scheduled now
02:17 cjh_             rangi: is this regarding the minion training?
02:18 cjh_             rangi: I was going to volunteer but assumed you wouldnt need help, id be more than happy to come in on a saturday.
02:18 rangi            its more for backup
02:18 rangi            if you could cover saturdays if i was sick etc .. and eythian_ cover tuesday evening ..
02:18 rangi            then that would work
02:19 cjh_             im also available tues evening after 4:30, but whatever works :)
02:19 cjh_             although eythian would be in office anyway.
02:19 rangi            cool yep
02:19 rangi            sweet
02:20 eythian_         what am I volunteering for?
02:20 rangi            heh
02:20 ibeardslee       Nick Smith's portfolios
02:20 eythian_         eh?
02:20 rangi            some of the academy kids expressed an interest in doing some ongoing work .. so a couple of hours every tuesday
02:20 eythian_         ah right
02:21 rangi            we picked tuesday, cos thast when perlmongers is
02:21 rangi            so if they want on those nights they can stay on for that too
02:21 eythian_bucklame makes sense. I'm also able to be free on Tuesdays if need be (unlike last year when training was that night so I took off a bit earlier)
02:21 rangi            sweet
02:22 ibeardslee       sounds like we have something happening .. now to get people interested
03:09 rangi            https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/529734_325297727532001_106589126069530_934380_1980896496_n.jpg
05:07 Oak              kia ora #koha
05:07 Oak              i need help setting up Koha
05:07 Oak              on Debian, I have followed this: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_3.6_on_Debian_Squeeze and now I am at the login prompt of the web installer, and it is asking for username password
05:08 Oak              what username and password?
05:08 wahanui          i heard username and password was correct
05:28 Oak              found it
05:36 Oak              anyone around?
05:54 Oak              cait!
05:54 Oak              i need bit of help
05:54 cait             Happy birthday!
05:54 Oak              oh well. thanks.
05:55 cait             wrong day again?
05:55 Oak              nope
05:55 cait             you don't like birthdays?
05:55 Oak              nope
05:55 Oak              well, not mine.
05:56 Oak              anyway, the help part.
05:57 Oak              Koha on Debian is installed and http://10.16.18.71:8080/ works fine. Now how do I configure the OPAC? entering IP address of the pc in my local network just returns: "It works! This is the default web page for this server."
05:58 Oak_             did you get the help question? or was I disconnected?
05:58 Oak_             Koha on Debian is installed and http://10.16.18.71:8080/ works fine. Now how do I configure the OPAC? entering IP address of the pc in my local network just returns: "It works! This is the default web page for this server."
05:58 cait             hm
05:58 cait             I thin kyou have to deactivate sth
05:59 cait             I am trying to remember
05:59 cait             which manual did you use for installation?
05:59 Oak_             here is my /etc/apache2/sites-available/... file: http://pastebin.com/TsMtSkmP
05:59 Oak_             http://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.koha-community.org%2Fwiki%2FKoha_3.6_on_Debian_Squeeze&ei=Sm5pT5v6FIOnrAf_zaT_Bw&usg=AFQjCNFTcwJkOEz592oW0zjh190VuH5OkQ&sig2=DD4nvjeJCai01Ulq_XZWNg
06:00 Oak_             crap
06:00 Oak_             this one: wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_3.6_on_Debian_Squeeze
06:00 Oak_             what's "sth"?
06:09 cait             something
06:09 cait             :)
06:09 cait             oh
06:09 cait             let me check
06:10 cait             ah you used the packages
06:10 Oak              yes
06:11 Oak              all i did is this: http://pastebin.com/KSSGy9Yd
06:12 cait             hm
06:12 cait             I am perhaps the wrong person to ask
06:12 cait             I think you have to deactivate the standard page from apache perhaps
06:12 cait             but I don't see in the manuals how to do that
06:12 Oak              sudo a2dissite default  ? http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.com/FIXED-I-can-access-de-staff-client-but-not-the-OPAC-td4513503.html
06:14 Oak              should I run that command and see what happens?
06:14 cait             http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.com/FIXED-I-can-access-de-staff-client-but-not-the-OPAC-td4513503.html
06:14 cait             ah
06:14 cait             you found the same :)
06:14 cait             I think what liz wrote ther
06:14 Oak              cool, let me try
06:15 Oak              \o/
06:15 Oak              worke
06:15 Oak              d
06:15 Oak              thank you cait! :)
06:18 Oak              now me go.
06:49 skk              i have a quick question we have koha 3.04.07 can we straight upgrade to 3.06.02 with cofigure make and make upgrade commands or we need to do anything else
06:52 cait             3.4 to 3.6 should not reqiure running any additional scripts or something, if you meant that
06:52 cait             there might be some new dependencies noted in the release notes
06:53 skk              those if it ask i will download but my worry was with regular upgrade commands anything else as well need to be done hence before doing this i wanted to verify
06:56 cait             it's recommended to dump your database and keep it safe somewhere before doing an update
06:56 rangi            why 3.6.2 not 3.6.4 ?
06:56 cait             and ideally run through the process on a test server first
06:57 skk              i was thinking i should go from 3.6.2 then to 3.6.4 but if i can go straight and if it wont create any problems then will use 3.6.4
06:58 rangi            well 3.6.2 was the 3rd 3.6.x release, theres nothing special about it .. no reason to go to it first
06:59 skk              thanks a lot!
06:59 skk              will try straight upgrade from 3.04.07 to 3.06.04
07:00 cait             have fun :)
07:04 skk              we were getting error while running reports in 3.4.7 undefined subroutine &C4::Reports::Guided::themelanguage called at /usr/share/ko ha/lib/C4/Reports/Guided.pm line 714 . hence we wanted to check if this error can be rectified in new version
07:14 rangi            dorkland in the house
07:21 magnuse          kia ora eythian_bucklame, rangi and #koha!
07:28 alex_a           bonjour
07:28 magnuse          bonjour l'hackfest!
07:30 mveron           Bonjour, #koha @ Marseille and worldwide
07:31 magnuse          hiya mveron
07:35 mveron           magnuse: I saw in the newsletter the note about Kohaat the Oslo and Akershus University College of Applied Sciences
07:35 mveron           It is a good story to tell
07:35 magnuse          yeah, they rock! :-)
07:35 mveron           Do yo have more information about? - Would like to write something on our (future) Website
07:37 magnuse          depends on what you want to know
07:37 mveron           Just "soft news", something I could use in a blog or in an article
07:38 magnuse          well, i don't really have that much more detail than what was in the newsletter
07:40 magnuse          yay for 5549 passing qa!
07:43 mveron           magnuse: OK, thanks. Will take the info as is.
07:57 map              hi
07:57 wahanui          bonjour, map
07:57 rangi            hmm cait kicked out the plug at biblibre
07:58 map              how can i create bard code for koha
07:58 map              ?
07:58 map              while am trying to create am not getting proper bar codes for my books
07:58 map              can anyone help me ?
08:00 map              i am new in koha
08:12 mveron           map: I'm quite new as well. Maybe: Administration->System Preferences->Cataloging preferences->Record Structure->autoBarcode
08:12 mveron           and: http://manual.koha-community.org/3.6/en/administration.html#catprefs  1.4.3.2 autoBarcode
08:21 rangi            http://virtualbreath.net/curious/2012/03/21/squashing-bugs/
08:22 eythian_bucklame rangi: nightline at 10.30 is apparently having a look inside the Chch library.
08:23 rangi            oh, ill keep an eye out
08:34 sophie_m         hi #koha
08:34 cait             hi sophie_m :)
08:35 sophie_m         :-)
08:50 Joubu            hi all
08:52 cait             hi Joubu
08:53 map              hai any one there
08:53 map              sorry
08:53 map              i was not here
09:04 paul_p           hello #koha
09:06 cait             hello paul_p :)
09:06 map              hai
09:07 map              i am new in koha
09:07 wahanui          i already had it that way, map.
09:07 cait             hi map
09:07 cait             welcome to #koha
09:07 map              i hai cati
09:07 map              sorry
09:07 map              cait
09:07 map              how r u
09:07 map              ?
09:07 map              actually i am trying to do the barcode field for my koha
09:08 map              but am not able to do it properly
09:08 map              can u help me for that
09:08 cait             I am sorry, not sure i understand your questions
09:08 cait             what are you trying to do? exactly?
09:08 cait             you have a working koha installation?
09:08 map              yah
09:08 cait             which version of koha did you install?
09:08 map              koha is working
09:09 map              and now we are doing data entry for adding books
09:09 map                 3.6
09:09 map              i think not sure
09:10 map              only bar coding is the problem for me now
09:10 cait             ok
09:10 cait             so do you want to use preprinted barcodes? or print barcodes with koha?
09:10 map              i want to print barcode with koha
09:11 map              i like to get accession number as my barcode
09:11 cait             I think first ting you want to do
09:11 map              so it is easy for us to detect
09:11 cait             is make koha assign barcodes numbers automatically
09:11 cait             there is a setting in the system preferences: autobarcode
09:11 cait             administration > system preferences
09:11 cait             and search there for autobarcode
09:11 map              okay
09:11 cait             manual?
09:11 wahanui          manual is, like, at http://www.koha-community.org/documentation
09:12 cait             and for the barcode printing
09:12 cait             you might want to take a look at the manual
09:12 cait             and the video toturials from nicole
09:12 cait             video tutorials?
09:12 wahanui          video tutorials are http://bywatersolutions.com/section/tutorial-videos/
09:12 map              is it possible we can use our accession nuber as barcodes
09:12 map              ?
09:13 map              are u therew?
09:13 map              *there
09:13 map              ?
09:13 cait             you have to store it in the barcode field then
09:13 cait             there is a barcode scheme using the year
09:13 cait             perhaps this will fit your needs
09:14 cait             you can also use independent numbes, there is a seaparate field for inventory numbers
09:14 map              okay
09:14 map              okay
09:14 map              let me check
09:14 cait             perhaps try and get a look at the forms and item fields and options
09:14 map              okay
09:14 cait             so you get a better idea about what you can do
09:14 map              if u dont mind can i get ur facebook id or gmail id
09:15 map              so that i can contact u later
09:16 cait             I think #koha is the best place to ask questons
09:16 cait             there is always someone around
09:16 cait             and we have the mailing lists
09:16 cait             mailing lists?
09:16 wahanui          mailing lists are at http://koha-community.org/support/koha-mailing-lists/
09:16 cait             so lots of people can help you
09:17 map              thank you so much
09:17 map              dear
09:17 cait             you are welcome
09:17 cait             where are you from map?
09:17 map              INDIA
09:17 map              where u from
09:17 map              ?
09:18 cait             germany, but currently at the koha hackfest in marseille, france
09:18 map              okay
09:18 rangi            @wunder marseille
09:18 huginn           rangi: The current temperature in Marseille, France is 13.0°C (10:00 AM CET on March 21, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 30.36 in 1028 hPa (Steady).
09:18 rangi            @wunder nzwn
09:18 huginn           rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 15.0°C (10:00 PM NZDT on March 21, 2012). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 14.0°C. Pressure: 29.77 in 1008 hPa (Falling).
09:19 map              and you are an IT professional
09:19 map              ?
09:19 cait             mostly a librarian
09:19 map              okay
09:20 cait             hey juan_laptop
09:20 map              now am in the field of record structure field in koha
09:20 map              cal u explaing me how can i modified ?
09:20 cait             the frameworks are a big topic
09:21 map              k
09:21 cait             I think I would try to figure out the other parts of koha first
09:21 cait             there are lots of options, but going with the defualt frameworks at the beginning is a bit easier
09:21 cait             I suggest you go to administration
09:21 cait             and work your way down there
09:21 cait             setting the basic parameters
09:21 map              okay
09:21 cait             and then try to add a few records, patrons
09:21 cait             try to circulate
09:21 map              i am talking abut bar code
09:22 map              actually i just need to generate bar code from my accession number
09:22 map              now can i do that
09:23 cait             whatever you save in the barcode field
09:23 cait             can be printed out
09:23 cait             on the barode labels
09:25 map              actually its a number only if i entered the number there is it ll generate barcode?
09:25 cait             sorry, I don't understand oyur question
09:25 map              okay
09:26 map              example am having an accession number test01
09:26 map              how can i make its barcode for koha
09:26 map              can u explane it for me
09:26 cait             yes
09:26 cait             but you have to save it to the barcode field
09:26 cait             and you can follow the video tutorial
09:26 map              where it is actually
09:26 oleonard         Hi #koha
09:27 cait             video tutorials?
09:27 cait             video tutorial?
09:27 cait             http://bywatersolutions.com/section/tutorial-videos/
09:27 wahanui          video tutorials are http://bywatersolutions.com/section/tutorial-videos/
09:27 map              okay let me check dear
09:27 map              and get back to u
09:28 juan_laptop      hi cait
09:31 eythian_bucklame rangi: maybe it was tv3 news, as the video is online here: http://www.3news.co.nz/VIDEO-First-peek-inside-the-Christchurch-library/tabid/423/articleID/247536/Default.aspx ... perhaps nightline is just doing a recap
09:32 rangi            ahh
09:32 rangi            yeah thats plausible
09:34 oleonard         Hi rangi and eythian_bucklame, so nice to see you in my morning for a change
09:34 rangi            heya oleonard
09:34 wahanui          oleonard is the master UI designer of koha or an awesome bug wrangler
09:34 eythian_bucklame oleonard: hiya
09:34 slef             hi all
09:35 slef             wahanui: correct!
09:35 wahanui          slef: sorry...
09:35 oleonard         I just finished giving our "ergonomy" group a tour of Koha interaction patterns as I understand them in the staff client
09:35 oleonard         Documentation to follow, slowly. cait was kind enough to take notes
09:35 cait             she tried to... not sure it makes sense
09:35 rangi            heh
09:36 rangi            well i can never read my own notes, so its bound to be better than that
09:37 cait             I typed them
09:38 eythian_bucklame *I * it's *. ... I can barely read your typing ;)
09:38 cait             so it should be better in that aspect
09:38 rangi            eythian_bucklame: heh
09:41 eythian_bucklame rangi: oh, it's on tv now
09:41 rangi            ahh id just turned it all off
09:41 eythian_bucklame it's a real mess
09:41 eythian_bucklame 300,000 books on the floor
09:41 rangi            yeah, that's what id heard ;(
09:42 eythian_bucklame they said that at least the building remained waterproof.
09:42 eythian_bucklame given the rain and snowstorms they had
09:43 slef             wow whassat?
09:43 eythian_bucklame I think they said they're going to warehouse books and you can request them. Probably a good temporary scheme.
09:43 eythian_bucklame slef: they finally got access to Chch library after the quake over a year ago.
09:44 oleonard         Wow
09:44 slef             ouch
09:44 eythian_bucklame yeah, it's one of the few buildings still standing in it's area, mostly because it was built to hold a lot of weight I guess.
09:44 slef             eythian_bucklame: yeah, Norwich warehoused books after its library burnt down in 1994, until the new one opened in 2000ish
09:45 eythian_bucklame slef: yeah, they're not sure if they can fix the building or if it'll have to be rebuilt.
09:45 slef             eythian_bucklame: one of the larger branch libraries was used as a temporary main library with the most popular books in it, the rest in IIRC an ex-nuclear-bunker.
09:45 eythian_bucklame I guess a nuclear bunker isn't going to burn down :)
09:46 asaurat          it still can be flooded ;)
09:46 eythian_bucklame I linked to the video (which seems to have terrible sound, and/or flash just sucks) above which'll give you an idea.
09:46 eythian_bucklame true :)
09:46 slef             asaurat: it's in the hills
09:47 eythian_bucklame alright, time for bed for me I think. Later all.
09:47 slef             eythian_bucklame: yeah, flash, so 1990s. html5++
09:47 eythian_bucklame yep. If only companies wouldn't damage the standards process.
09:48 eythian_bucklame *company's
09:48 eythian_bucklame no wait
09:48 eythian_bucklame the first one
09:48 wahanui          the first one is, like, the easiest, but you can't do anything very interesting with it
09:48 oleonard         slef: Flash or patented video codecs, how do we choose? :)
09:48 eythian_bucklame really time for bed.
09:48 eythian_bucklame oleonard: you choose open video codecs :)
09:48 eythian_bucklame byebye
09:48 slef             oleonard: software patents are prohibited by law here, so that's simple ;-)
09:49 slef             eythian_bucklame: night
09:49 * oleonard       must have awoken from a bad dream
09:50 slef             oleonard: yeah, it's called moving to Europe, isn't it? ;)
09:51 francharb        0/ #koha
10:21 libsysguy        seen rangi
10:21 wahanui          rangi was last seen on #koha 39 minutes and 10 seconds ago, saying: yeah, that's what id heard ;( [Wed Mar 21 09:41:36 2012]
10:21 libsysguy        rangi was what you heard that hourly failed...
10:36 oleonard         libsysguy, sekjal passed it, but it seems new issues were discovered here at Hackfest
10:36 libsysguy        yeah I was noticing that
10:37 libsysguy        im looking into them now
10:37 * libsysguy      is trying to reproduce
11:21 magnus_afk       jcamins++ for channeling me on bug 7092 :-)
11:21 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7092 normal, P5 - low, ---, magnus, Passed QA , Complete-subfield searches TraceCompleteSubfields syspref not working correctly
11:21 jcamins          magnus_afk: hehe.
11:24 paul_p           cait++ (for analytical record)
11:24 paul_p           work like a charm in UNIMARC ;-)
11:29 jcamins          Okay, everyone cross your fingers that the contractors really do finishtoday.
11:32 oleonard         Am I allowed to sign off on cait's patches today? We're working in the same office! :)
11:33 oleonard         Lunch time!
11:35 huginn           New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 6831 follow-up: add support for UNIMARC and NORMARC <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=0a9ba9d9dffb7291eb9a8d7cfa24523a8b1bdd1c> / Bug 6831: Add ability to enter adding child record from parent <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=adb3777e2e4940a842e0d33a22121b1db762aeba> / Bug 5657: Changes made to sub merge to eliminate errors occuring when updating bibio... <h
11:46 jenkins_koha     Starting build #667 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
12:21 * slef           edits http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon12_Announcements#Add-on_A2:_Call_For_Papers to try to do Brooke's suggestions.
12:22 slef             Anyone know if it's possible to lengthen my wiki login expiry?  Do I need to ask an admin?
12:23 magnus_afk       slef!
12:23 slef             magnus_afk: here, I want a word with you!
12:23 magnus_afk       so i gather...
12:24 slef             :)
12:28 jenkins_koha     Project Koha_master build #667: SUCCESS in 41 mn: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/667/
12:28 jenkins_koha     * ian.walls: Enhancement 7144: Floating Collections (per branch/itemtype)
12:28 jenkins_koha     * paul.poulain: Bug 7144 follow-up cleaning for HTML4 coding guideline
12:28 jenkins_koha     * paul.poulain: Bug 7144 followup DBrev number
12:28 jenkins_koha     * paul.poulain: Bug 7144 string follow-up: reordering text
12:28 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7144 enhancement, P1 - high, ---, srdjan, Pushed to Master , Floating collection
12:28 jenkins_koha     * januszop: Bug 5657: Changes made to sub merge to eliminate errors occuring when updating bibio records in batch (after updating multiple authority records)
12:28 jenkins_koha     * colin.campbell: Bug 6831: Add ability to enter adding child record from parent
12:28 jenkins_koha     * Katrin.Fischer.83: Bug 6831 follow-up: add support for UNIMARC and NORMARC
12:28 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5657 normal, P3, ---, januszop, Pushed to Master , biblio records update fails when updating multiple authorities linked with the same biblio
12:28 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6831 enhancement, P2, ---, colin.campbell, Pushed to Master , Enhanced Workflow for adding analytical records
12:28 skk              we upgraded our koha from 3.2.10 to 3.4.8 to 3.6.4 while running upgrade we had also ran remove_items_from_biblioitems.pl command after running rebuild_Zebra command we are unable to see all bound volumes data  when koha database is checked in phpMyAdmin in items table we are able to see all these items
12:28 skk              my query is how to get all these bound volumes in opac and main koha are we missing anything
12:36 Oak              kia ora #koha
12:36 Oak              when adding a new record in Koha, the 100 a (Personal Name) field is locked. I went to Administration > System Preferences > Authorities and set BiblioAddsAuthorities to "Allow" and saved, was that supposed to unlock the 100 a field?
12:36 Oak              it's still locked.
12:44 libsysguy        sekjal you around
12:45 sekjal           libsysguy:  yup
12:45 sekjal           working on 5549
12:45 libsysguy        dude I was looking at that this morning too
12:45 slef             Oak: I'd expect it to unlock it but maybe you need to change the framework too. It's been a while since I did a naked setup.
12:45 slef             bug 5549?
12:45 wahanui          rumour has it bug 5549 is libsysguy's white whale
12:45 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5549 enhancement, P1 - high, ---, chris, Failed QA , Hourly Loans
12:45 libsysguy        I don't see how that could possibly happen
12:46 sekjal           I can't reproduce their renewal problem
12:46 slef             wahanui++
12:46 sekjal           but I do get the 'inverse' error
12:46 Oak              slef, what do i change in the framework?
12:46 libsysguy        weird
12:46 sekjal           working on tracing it out now
12:46 sekjal           something to do with fines in days, I think
12:46 Oak              the "MARC Bibliographic framework" link?
12:47 Oak              and there edit "Books, Booklets, Workbooks" by clicking on "MARC structure"?
12:47 magnus_afk       have fun #koha!
12:47 Oak              search for 100
12:47 Oak              click subfields?
12:48 libsysguy        if you look in Koha::Calendar the variable is initialized to a DateTime::Duration object one line above the error
12:48 Oak              edit 'a', i.e. "Personal Name"?
12:48 slef             Oak: this sounds wrong to me. Have you checked the FAQ?
12:48 sekjal           libsysguy:  what line?
12:48 Oak              FAQ...
12:48 slef             alternatively wait for someone who isn't eyesdeep in admin and code to help :(
12:48 slef             FAQ?
12:48 wahanui          i think FAQ is found at http://koha-community.org/documentation/faq/
12:49 libsysguy        line 96
12:49 slef             Oak: if this isn't in there it should be
12:49 slef             wahanui: BiblioAddsAuthorities?
12:49 wahanui          BiblioAddsAuthorities is probably a syspref that lets authorities be created automagically when you add a record.
12:49 libsysguy        i just did a grep for inverse
12:49 libsysguy        thats the only place it occurs
12:49 libsysguy        so i started there and tried working backwards
12:49 sekjal           right, but the error is coming from DateTime::Duration.pm directly
12:49 sekjal           in the 'subtract_duration' subroutine
12:49 Oak              it is there
12:50 sekjal           which is called by 'subtract'
12:50 Oak              but it does not make sense: "These fields are authority controlled and you probably have the BiblioAddsAuthorities set to 'allow'. When it is set to 'don't allow' these fields will be locked and require you to search for an existing authority record. "
12:50 sekjal           which is called to places in Koha/Calendar.pm
12:50 sekjal           s/to/2/
12:50 libsysguy        interesting
12:50 libsysguy        ok...goes to look further
12:50 sekjal           1 of which is days_between
12:50 Oak              FAQ: Why can’t I edit 1xx, 6xx, or 7xx fields in my catalog record? Answer: These fields are authority controlled and you probably have the BiblioAddsAuthorities set to 'allow'. When it is set to 'don't allow' these fields will be locked and require you to search for an existing authority record.
12:50 sekjal           where we just did some work
12:50 libsysguy        you're obviously ahead of me :p
12:50 sekjal           so that's my first suspect
12:51 sekjal           libsysguy:  I've been poking for the last half hour or so
12:51 libsysguy        you know what might nip it in the butt for now is to check to see if start_dt and end_dt are both references
12:52 skk              can someone help. we upgraded our koha from 3.2.10 to 3.4.8 to 3.6.4. We are unable to see boundvolumes data in kohaadmin as well as in opac. These records are there in koha database when we saw database from phpMyAdmin. My query is how to get these records visible in koha.
12:52 libsysguy        sekjal if they aren't, convert them with dt_from_string
12:52 sekjal           yeah, I was just thinking... can you subtract two DateTime::Duration objects like that
12:53 libsysguy        you mean line 175
12:54 sekjal           yes
12:55 sekjal           okay, according to stack overflow, you can
12:55 libsysguy        oh...
12:55 libsysguy        http://search.cpan.org/~drolsky/DateTime-0.73/lib/DateTime.pm#Datetime_Subtraction
12:56 sekjal           hmm... that would indicate otherwise
12:56 slef             skk: did you run the script to change the items format?
12:56 sekjal           ah, but those are datetimes, not durations
12:56 slef             (afk for a while)
12:57 libsysguy        are we passing it Duration objects or DateTime objects?
12:57 sekjal           not sure yet
12:57 sekjal           aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand I just say Patrick Jones
12:57 sekjal           s/say/saw/
12:58 sekjal           his hair seems shorter....
12:58 sekjal           going into days_between we have two DateTime objects
12:58 libsysguy        ok
12:59 sekjal           on from dt_from_string, the other from DateTime->now()
12:59 libsysguy        so maybe it would be safer to use the subtract_datetime
12:59 Oak              sekjal, i have done this but still that field is locked: http://lists.katipo.co.nz/public/koha/2011-May/028962.html
12:59 sekjal           yes, we'll need to use the datetime subtraction method
12:59 libsysguy        ok, how do you want to handle that?
13:00 sekjal           Oak:  are you running memcached?
13:00 libsysguy        I have a patch I need to send to rangi for an error that I found in dropbox returns this morning
13:00 sekjal           libsysguy: I'm going to test locally and see if it helps
13:00 libsysguy        ok
13:00 Oak              what's memcached? I just installed Koha on Debian for the first time.
13:00 sekjal           if so, you or I can write up a patch and send to rangi
13:01 sekjal           Oak:  caching software for better concurrency.  if you're not familiar, you probably haven't turned it on
13:01 libsysguy        ok, well since you have a test case already in place could you patch and test?
13:01 libsysguy        or you can send me what you did to make it fail and I can
13:01 sekjal           libsysguy:  yes
13:01 Oak              where do i turn it on? just give a clue...
13:01 Oak              wait
13:01 Oak              i'll google
13:01 * libsysguy      feels guilty for having sekjal do all the work
13:02 sekjal           Oak: if you had memcached turned on, you'd need to reload it for the frameworks to take affect
13:02 sekjal           Oak: was just guessing at one easy solution
13:02 Oak              where is that setting?
13:02 sekjal           Oak:  set up during the make process
13:02 sekjal           libsysguy: no need.  you have already done so much
13:03 libsysguy        oak but its not default so if you didn't turn it on its not on
13:03 sekjal           I want this enhancement in place almost as much as you do
13:03 Oak              cait!
13:03 jcamins_away     Happy birthday!
13:03 libsysguy        its cait's birthday?
13:04 jcamins_away     No, Oak's.
13:04 libsysguy        oh! HAPPY BIRTHDAY OAK!!
13:04 Oak              thank you guys.
13:06 cait             yes?
13:09 cait             so what about me?
13:09 sekjal           happy birthday, Oak!
13:10 Oak              thank you so much guys, you are too kind!
13:10 Oak              God bless you all.
13:10 Oak              :)
13:13 * mbalmer        waves at the kohaistas!
13:14 tcohen           morning #koha
13:16 kmkale           namaste #koha
13:16 wizzyrea         oh happy birthday oak
13:19 sekjal           libsysguy:  having a hard time fixing this issue
13:19 sekjal           I've tried a couple different ways now, to no avail
13:19 mbalmer          how do I tell perlcritic to treat 'use Modern::Perl' to be equal to 'use warrnings, use strict' ?  i.e what need to be put in ~/.perlcriticrc ?
13:20 Oak              thank you very very much all :) thank you wizzyrea.
13:21 libsysguy        hmm
13:22 libsysguy        maybe its not failing at the point we think it is
13:22 * libsysguy      iwll be in and out, had a server fall out last night so im running in a degraded state :-\
13:23 wizzyrea         I think we've all been there.
13:23 jcamins_away     wizzyrea: Committing all the things!
13:23 wizzyrea         :)
13:23 oleonard         schema?
13:23 wahanui          schema is probably tracked in git. or found at http://schema.koha-community.org
13:23 oleonard         Thanks wahanui
13:25 wizzyrea         ...and now you are all going to look at my silly little shell scripts.
13:25 wizzyrea         and wonder if I'm quite sane.
13:26 sekjal           libsysguy: I think you're right... I commented out the call to subtract in days_between, and still get the error
13:26 sekjal           moving to the other call thereof
13:28 libsysguy        did you add a check for ref in days_between sekjal?
13:29 sekjal           libsysguy: no
13:29 sekjal           just commented out the call to subtract, which would be what causes the call to inverse
13:29 libsysguy        oh i understand now
13:31 sekjal           okay, fail
13:32 mbalmer          no perlcritic users around?
13:32 * mveron         Likes Perl :-)
13:33 wizzyrea         mbalmer: does this help any
13:33 wizzyrea         http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.com/Koha-patches-PATCH-1-2-SIGNED-OFF-Updating-perlcriticrc-to-allow-Modern-Perl-to-suffice-instead-of-u-td5157092.html
13:33 * mbalmer        rather hates it...
13:33 paul_p           oleonard = is it correct : Delete records if no items remain ? the same in french would have been spelled "Delete records if no item remain" (no s to item as there's none)
13:34 * mveron         Swiss people are used to deal wit dialects...
13:34 oleonard         paul_p, Actually I think you could do it two ways :)
13:34 oleonard         Delete records if no items remain
13:34 oleonard         or
13:34 wizzyrea         tmtowtdi?
13:34 wahanui          i think tmtowtdi is there's more than one way to do it
13:34 oleonard         Delete records if no item remains
13:34 wizzyrea         whodathunk
13:34 oleonard         But I think the first is better
13:35 wizzyrea         Remove bibliographic record when no items remain?
13:35 paul_p           oleonard if kyle wrote it that way and it's OK, I won't change anything then. now pushing bug 6027
13:35 oleonard         The second sounds awkward, at least to my American ears
13:35 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6027 enhancement, P4, ---, kyle.m.hall, Passed QA , Delete biblios if deleting all their items in batch deletion
13:36 mbalmer          wizzyrea, many thanks, putting that in .perlcriticrc helped.
13:36 wizzyrea         yw :)
13:37 * paul_p         just pushed the tiny patch ever = (bug 7749)
13:37 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7749 normal, P5 - low, ---, katrin.fischer, Pushed to Master , Not all OKs on the start page are translatable
13:38 paul_p           s/tiny/tiniest/
13:38 paul_p           => removes one space !
13:38 cait                2
13:38 cait             heh :)
13:38 * oleonard       defends his title, claiming a patch which removed only 1
13:38 cait             it's not my fault it was an easy fix!
13:39 gmcharlt         somebody needs to submit a patch that just changes the permissions on a file ... only way to beat oleonard's record
13:39 * mveron         proud to have signd off 7749 as my first sign off...
13:42 sekjal           libsysguy:  you were right: it looks like it's line 95 (the direct call to inverse)
13:43 cait             mveron++
13:44 wizzyrea         didn't slef do that?
13:44 wizzyrea         submit a patch that only changed the permissions on a file
13:44 * oleonard       thought he remembered something like that
13:49 slef             wizzyrea: yeah probably.
13:50 mbalmer          perlcritic is a bastard……
13:50 mbalmer          stephan goes mad, I think ;)
13:56 sekjal           libsysguy:  no, not the call to inverse... though that does look problematic, too
13:56 sekjal           or maybe just confusing
14:00 paul_p           mveron++
14:00 paul_p           ;-)
14:01 paul_p           the RM is hungry of patches to push :D ...
14:01 * paul_p         heads for some patches to QA...
14:01 paul_p           26 patches "signed-off" to pick from
14:02 paul_p           the biggest part of them being ENH !
14:03 marcelr          hi koha
14:03 cait             hi marcelr
14:04 marcelr          hi cait
14:04 marcelr          paul_p: could you head to 7310 ?
14:04 cait             i was talking to marijana about your great patch for sru
14:04 cait             do you think there is a chance to get that rebased and perhaps spend some time on it otmororw?
14:04 marcelr          ok
14:05 cait             perhaps we can figure out here, with the testing librarians
14:05 cait             what's going wrong for unimarc
14:05 cait             or were there other problems?
14:05 cait             or could you split out some of the features?
14:05 cait             I am not sure how to approach this
14:05 marcelr          no time for it tomorrow, i am afraid; problems are at the unimarc side
14:05 cait             hm ok
14:05 marcelr          i am running this in production for one year already
14:05 cait             if not tomorrow I fear it will not be done this week
14:05 cait             I know
14:06 cait             and I think it's a great feature
14:06 marcelr          me too ;)
14:07 cait             yeah, I want to help to get it into koha
14:07 marcelr          i think i must split it
14:08 sekjal           libsysguy: my research is leading my in circles
14:08 sekjal           back to sub _FixFineDaysOnReturn
14:08 sekjal           that's got to be it
14:08 sekjal           solution:  just drop support for suspension in days :-p
14:09 oleonard         cait, follow-up attached to Bug 5482
14:09 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5482 normal, P5 - low, ---, chris, Needs Signoff , Translation problem in guided reports - Item field names
14:16 jenkins_koha     Starting build #668 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
14:17 sekjal           libsysguy:  I think I've nailed down the culprit
14:17 huginn           New commit(s) kohagit: bug 7092 follow-up: DBRev number <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=2225bbc62c6d358f207c26c24f97dff74c5c18ea> / Bug 7092 - Complete-subfield searches TraceCompleteSubfields syspref not working... <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=20fd03724aca67beb98b09dbf2275a81a1f8a3a7> / Bug 7734: NO_LIBRARY_SET should be translatable <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koh
14:18 sekjal           around line 1800 of C4/Circulation.pm.  the handling of fine day intervals has not caught up.  mixing apples and oranges
14:19 sekjal           time for my first session of the day... but I'll try to poke at it more as I have time today
14:29 matts            paul_p, http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7767
14:29 huginn           04Bug 7767: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, henridamien, NEW , acqui/basketgroup.pl: our $template scoping
14:30 paul_p           matts c'est pas un patch ca ! c'est la sortie d'un diff !
14:30 paul_p           un patch, ca commence par ca:
14:30 paul_p           From 0e84678b1ec58c6a1672528f9516cb800bc4eb96 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
14:30 paul_p           From: =?UTF-8?q?St=C3=A9phane=20Delaune?= <stephane.delaune@biblibre.com>
14:30 matts            -_-
14:30 paul_p           Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 12:12:16 +0100
14:30 paul_p           Subject: [PATCH] Bug 4032:XSLT systempreference takes a path to file rather
14:30 paul_p           than YesNo
14:30 paul_p           ---
14:30 paul_p           C4/Search.pm                                       |    3 +-
14:30 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4032 enhancement, P1 - high, ---, stephane.delaune, Needs Signoff , XSLT systempreference should take a path to file rather than YesNo
14:30 matts            effectively indeed bon sûr c'est bien sang !
14:31 paul_p           matts : ptet pas la sortie d'un diff, mais ca a une drole de tête
14:41 dpavlin          plack omnibus patch: http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7172
14:41 huginn           04Bug 7172: major, P1 - high, ---, paul.poulain, NEW , Data Persistency
14:46 cait             http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon12_logo_design
14:47 data_doctor      Looks Great!
14:58 edveal           Anyone out there experiencing issues with css for #opac-main-search on IE. I have a number of sites that all of a sudden the background images or color they have is not showing on IE. I have IE 8 only for testing.
14:59 oleonard         edveal, there were recently some CSS changes pushed which cause some differences in IE
14:59 oleonard         Bug 6865
14:59 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6865 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Replace image-based gradient backgrounds with CSS3 gradients
14:59 edveal           Good to know...
15:00 oleonard         There are some issues I'm aware of. I don't have IE on this laptop bug I can make suggestions if you have examples
15:00 jenkins_koha     Project Koha_master build #668: SUCCESS in 44 mn: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/668/
15:00 jenkins_koha     * kyle: Bug 6027 - Delete biblios if deleting all their items in batch deletion
15:00 jenkins_koha     * Katrin.Fischer.83: Bug 7749: Not all OKs on the start page are translatable
15:00 jenkins_koha     * adrien.saurat: Bug 7744: use of TT date filters on basket pages
15:00 jenkins_koha     * Katrin.Fischer.83: Bug 7734: NO_LIBRARY_SET should be translatable
15:00 jenkins_koha     * magnus: Bug 7092 - Complete-subfield searches TraceCompleteSubfields syspref not working correctly
15:00 jenkins_koha     * paul.poulain: bug 7092 follow-up: DBRev number
15:00 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6027 enhancement, P4, ---, kyle.m.hall, Pushed to Master , Delete biblios if deleting all their items in batch deletion
15:00 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7749 normal, P5 - low, ---, katrin.fischer, Pushed to Master , Not all OKs on the start page are translatable
15:00 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7744 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, adrien.saurat, Pushed to Master , Use of date filters in basket pages
15:00 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7734 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, katrin.fischer, Pushed to Master , NO_LIBRARY_SET should be translatable
15:00 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7092 normal, P5 - low, ---, magnus, Pushed to Master , Complete-subfield searches TraceCompleteSubfields syspref not working correctly
15:20 paul_p           oleonard or cait or dpavlin = i'd like to have a signoff on bug 7780 ! (will be great for the sandbox message sent by cron ;-) )
15:20 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7780 normal, P5 - low, ---, paul.poulain, Needs Signoff , fix translator tool verbosity
15:21 oleonard         Did you hear that cait? paul_p is talking to you :P
15:21 * cait           huh?
15:21 paul_p           Joubu / marcelr = QAing bug 6199 now
15:21 * cait           is playing dumb
15:21 cait             no i will look at it
15:22 cait             but first finish this
15:22 cait             this = what I am working on now
15:22 paul_p           did I say I love git already ?
15:22 paul_p           cait: perfectly fair ;-)
15:22 paul_p           (but don't tell my wife -about git-)
15:27 paul_p           Joubu marcelr = QAing 7401
15:29 cait             tsting
15:29 cait             paul_p: will we get chocolate for not telling your wife about git? ;)
15:30 paul_p           cait, that can be an option...
15:30 cait             hm
15:30 cait             I am testing
15:30 cait             but
15:30 cait             I don't get any success message... is this by design?
15:31 marcelr          paul_p: did you already see 7310 again?
15:31 marcelr          bug 7401
15:31 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7401 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha.sekjal, Signed Off , Shelving Location facet instead of Branch facet when only 1 branch configured
15:31 marcelr          bug 6199
15:31 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6199 enhancement, P3, ---, robin, Failed QA , Allow bulkmarcimport to blank duplicate barcodes rather than skipping items
15:32 cait             paul_p: it would be nice to get some feedback for successful installation
15:42 paul_p           marcelr yep
15:42 cait             paul_p: forget it- I have signed off
15:42 paul_p           cait thx ;-)
15:43 paul_p           marcelr on bug 7310
15:43 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7310 normal, P3, ---, m.de.rooy, Passed QA , Improving permissions on lists (virtual shelves)
15:44 marcelr          yes?
15:47 vfernandes       hi guyes
15:48 paul_p           OK, 9 patches applied (marcelr= I just wanted to say I am on 7310)
15:48 vfernandes       it's possible to remove hifens from ISBN OPAC searches?
15:48 marcelr          paul_p: great!
15:50 Morthland        How can I disable lists in OPAC?
15:50 marcelr          morthland: via a syspref
15:50 oleonard         Administration -> System preferences -> virtualshelves
15:51 wizzyrea         too bad it's be a pain to change that syspref.
15:51 Morthland        hmm?
15:51 wizzyrea         because virtualshelves makes no sense - it's lists everywhere in the UI
15:52 oleonard         At least you can find the preference when searching for "lists"
15:52 wizzyrea         true.
15:52 oleonard         Unfortunately the description isn't clear that it affects only the OPAC
15:53 chobbs           Hi all! We have some inventory barcode files that were collected last August but never submitted for processing. Obviously, many of these items have since circulated. I want to create a stored proc that will update the datelastseen, as well as check in anything that hasn't since circulated but is still issued. Any thing else I need to look for?
15:54 oleonard         Is there no notice for warning patrons their accounts will expire soon?
15:55 cait             there is
15:56 cait             probably tied to the systempreference
16:00 chobbs           oleonard:  Is that what 'NotifyBorrowerDeparture ' is for?
16:00 oleonard         No, that controls whether the staff is warned on the circulation page a certain number of days ahead of the expiration date
16:01 sekjal           paul_p and other Fines in Days users:  does borrower debarment date need to be a datetime?
16:01 chobbs           oleonard:  Ahh, bummer.
16:01 Morthland        where can I find an example of a koha opac?
16:02 paul_p           sekjal we spoke of that yesterday, and we don't know any library that could have a rule like "check in 1 hour late ? 1 hour debarred"
16:02 paul_p           sekjal a rule that could be possible being "1 hour late => 1 day debarred" seem more possible.
16:02 oleonard         Morthland: http://search.myacpl.org
16:02 sekjal           okay, so the debar duration is in days
16:03 paul_p           but even this option seem rare.
16:03 paul_p           yep, probably OK
16:03 oleonard         Morthland, Or demos via koha-community.org
16:03 sekjal           ok
16:03 paul_p           (and if someone request it in hours, we will quote that enhancement :D :D )
16:03 sekjal           will work on this fix
16:03 chobbs           Morthland:  Here's a K-12 school district version: http://koha.nhusd.k12.ca.us/
16:04 chobbs           not exactly fancy (pretty much out of the box)
16:04 chobbs           Anyone have suggestions on my inventory issue? Or was it a case of tl;dr?
16:06 dpavlin          cait: Bug 7213 might be of interest to you :-)
16:06 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7213 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, dpavlin, Needs Signoff , Document /svc/ HTTP API and provide example command-line client
16:06 marcelr          paul_p: you did it!
16:06 paul_p           ;-)
16:07 marcelr          paul_p++
16:08 marcelr          not only a bad idea for 3.6 also rebasing nightmare ;)
16:09 huginn           New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 7310 follow-up: DBRev <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=ceb81cfc5200341f1782c754df47516f1ed932af> / Bug 7310 Followup: Warnings for nothingdeleted and somedeleted for staff client. <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=95e513f400e9f79798131f175370d0d7e600cd4c> / 7310 Indentation followup replacing leading tabs with spaces <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=
16:16 jenkins_koha     Starting build #669 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
16:16 sekjal           lunch time... back when I can find wifi and a place to plug in
16:20 chobbs           Would somebody be willing to sanity check this fix for my out-of-date inventory file? http://pastebin.com/uutDUzEP
16:22 chobbs           Grrr, never mind, I already discovered a problem with it :) not checking the date on issues
16:25 slef             heh
16:26 chobbs           Updated version: http://pastebin.com/73h7HjqU Any thoughts?
16:30 jcamins_away     Meeting in 1.5 hours?
16:31 wizzyrea         *nod*
16:32 jcamins_away     Thanks.
16:32 * jcamins_away   leaves again.
16:35 oleonard         Hackfest is disbanding for the evening... not sure if anyone will be at the meeting...?
17:00 jenkins_koha     Project Koha_master build #669: UNSTABLE in 43 mn: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/669/
17:00 jenkins_koha     * m.de.rooy: Bug 7310: DB revision for Improving list permissions
17:00 jenkins_koha     * m.de.rooy: Bug 7310: Improving lists permissions -- New prefs
17:00 jenkins_koha     * m.de.rooy: 7310a: Improving list permissions: Changing Koha SQL structure
17:00 jenkins_koha     * m.de.rooy: Bug 7310: Code changes for Improving list permissions
17:00 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7310 enhancement, P3, ---, m.de.rooy, Pushed to Master , Improving permissions on lists (virtual shelves)
17:00 jenkins_koha     * m.de.rooy: Bug 7310: Improving list permissions: Deleting patron
17:00 jenkins_koha     * m.de.rooy: Bug 7310: Updated VirtualShelves unit test
17:00 jenkins_koha     * m.de.rooy: Bug 7310 Followup for sysprefs.sql
17:00 jenkins_koha     * m.de.rooy: 7310 Indentation followup replacing leading tabs with spaces
17:00 jenkins_koha     * m.de.rooy: Bug 7310 Followup: Warnings for nothingdeleted and somedeleted for staff client.
17:00 jenkins_koha     * paul.poulain: Bug 7310 follow-up: DBRev
17:05 kyleh            hey all, I need to modify the template that generates koha's apache configuration file, is it debian/templates/apache-site.conf.in, is is that just for the debian packages?
17:05 paul_p           hi kyleh. I think it's the debian package only
17:05 paul_p           look in etc/
17:06 bag              heya paul_p that sandbox is pretty sweet :)
17:06 bag              is the source code available for that?  I think sometime soon - I will set up another one here :)
17:06 chris_n          kittens and sandboxes?
17:06 bag              that's a really great great additional
17:07 bag              heh addition not additional ;)
17:08 paul_p           bag once i'll be able to push on git.koha-community.org / contrib.git i'll push everything (including documentation ;-) )
17:08 bag              YAY!!!  I love it...
17:08 paul_p           ;-)
17:09 paul_p           (note that atm, all sandboxes have been switched to unimarc : we have many librarians playing like mad with them this week)
17:09 bag              3.8 is shaping up as a pretty sweet release :)
17:09 paul_p           bag and once the new updatedatabase system will be pushed, it will even be handiest...
17:09 bag              totally :)
17:26 Oak              kia ora #koha
17:31 * jcamins        is ready for the meeting... and a whole half hour early!
17:31 cait             hi jcamins
17:31 jcamins          Hello.
17:34 * slef           goes to get coffee
17:38 Oak              Hello Brooke :)
17:38 Brooke           howdy
17:38 wahanui          hola, Brooke
17:38 oleonard         Hi Brooke, thd
17:39 thd              hello oleonard
17:39 huginn           New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 7748: use of TT date filter on addorderiso2709 <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=58e3065af4168a39d4af01eeee6ee7bad6db57ce> / Singlebranchmode was always 0 causing the branch to be null and the reservations... <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=b67e1304f6833fb1b2637a1fd78be124dff7649f> / Bug 7169: Follow-up: Change booksellers search results display <http://git
17:40 thd              oleonard: Have you missed winter in Ohio?
17:40 oleonard         Pretty much
17:41 * thd            has suffered greatly from lack of winter.
17:43 * thd            is normally functioning maximally during winter as long as it is not excessively cold.
17:43 clrh             bye
17:43 Brooke           I don't think I'm like to forget roses in full bloom round New Year's in me courtyard
17:43 Brooke           I want to get on over to the Cherry Blossom Festival but it's all overcast and crummy.
17:44 * thd            is allergic to Brooke's roses and all flowering plants.
17:45 * thd            has been miserable at the wrong time of year.
17:45 oleonard         the cherry blossoms are at least two weeks earlier in Ohio than last year I think
17:45 Brooke           seems that way here, too
17:45 wizzyrea         same with the bradford pears here too
17:45 Brooke           one of my fencing mates was yelling at his pears not to bud a few weeks back XD
17:45 thd              Blooming has started months earlier in NYC.
17:46 jenkins_koha     Starting build #670 for job Koha_master (previous build: UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #668 3 h 30 mn ago)
17:47 thd              I should have been mostly free of the effects of my pollen allergy until a brief period in May quickly ended by summer heat.
17:48 Brooke           ugh
17:48 Brooke           I hope we don't get Jenkins spam half way through the meeting
17:48 thd              Can Jenkins not be tamed?
17:48 * oleonard       pats jenkins_koha protectively
17:49 thd              Is there a jenkins_koha meeting mode?
17:49 cait             t
17:49 * kyleh          is done for the day. He got a *very* early start.
17:49 * Brooke         looks at Owen and chances a growl at Jenkins.
17:51 data_doctor      I was not able top cross-country ski this year in Ohio
17:52 Brooke           wow
17:52 data_doctor      not enough snow
17:52 data_doctor      although I did have one day to sled before it melted.
17:52 Brooke           hooray sled!
17:53 data_doctor      The magnolia trees bloomed yesterday - wonderful aroma in the evening...
17:53 data_doctor      @wunderground 44240
17:53 huginn           data_doctor: downloading the Perl source
17:53 data_doctor      oops
17:54 jcamins          It just smells like New York City here.
17:54 * thd            thinks about moving to Norway where thd's ancestors were comfortable in a somewhat Arctic climate with much darkness.
17:54 bag              @wunder 93109
17:54 huginn           bag: The current temperature in K6LCM-Westside/Mesa, Santa Barbara, California is 19.8°C (10:54 AM PDT on March 21, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 38%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Falling).
17:54 data_doctor      @wunder kent ohio
17:54 huginn           data_doctor: The current temperature in Kent/Brimfield, Portage County, Ohio is 25.0°C (1:51 PM EDT on March 21, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 47%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 30.20 in 1022 hPa (Falling).
17:55 data_doctor      very delightful outside today!
17:55 data_doctor      and setting record temperatures!
17:56 Brooke           25C
17:56 Brooke           for reals?
17:56 * Brooke         rubs the olde eyes.
17:56 thd              data_doctor: For me, a delightful day is a nice cool and gentle rain all day suppressing the pollen.
17:57 * oleonard       is so much more prepared for Europe having been trained by huginn to understand °C
17:57 wizzyrea         thd: you would love the weather here today
17:57 oleonard         Now if only huginn could have taught me French too
17:57 wizzyrea         hehe
17:58 * Brooke         is jealous of oleonard.
17:58 slef             yo Brooke
17:59 Brooke           what's up homie?
17:59 slef             oleonard: bonjour matelot! Sont ces pamplemousses a vôtre?
17:59 Brooke           mmmm grapefruit.
17:59 wizzyrea         mmmm
17:59 slef             Brooke: Edinburgh's up
18:00 * Brooke         cracks the knuckles in preparation for the meeting...
18:00 cait             hopes her window properly auto scrolls now
18:00 Brooke           #startmeeting
18:00 huginn           Meeting started Wed Mar 21 18:00:17 2012 UTC.  The chair is Brooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:00 huginn           Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:00 Brooke           Haere Mai welcome to the Koha Community General IRC meeting
18:01 Brooke           please use #info to identify yerself for the record
18:01 Brooke           #topic Introductions
18:01 oleonard         #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries
18:01 jcamins          #info Jared Camins-Esakov, C & P Bibliography Services
18:01 bag              #info Brendan Gallagher, ByWater Solutions
18:01 druthb           #info D Ruth Bavousett, ByWater Solutions
18:01 wizzyrea         #info Liz Rea, NEKLS
18:01 cait             #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ
18:02 mveron           #info Marc Véron, marc veron ag, Allschwil/Basel, Switzerland
18:02 melia            #info
18:02 melia            oops, let me try again. #info Melia Meggs, ByWater Solutions
18:02 thd              #info Thomas  Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
18:02 data_doctor      #info Fred Pierre, Stow-Munroe Falls Public Library, Ohio
18:02 ago43            #info Albert Oller, ByWater Solutions
18:04 slef             #info MJ Ray, software.coop
18:04 mtj              #info mason, kohaaloha, nz
18:04 NateC            Nate Curulla, ByWater Solutions!
18:04 * cait           whispers at Nate #info! :)
18:05 Brooke           right moving along
18:05 Brooke           #topic Announcements
18:05 dpavlin          #info Dobrica Pavlinusic, FFZG
18:05 NateC            #info Nate Curulla, ByWater Solutions
18:06 NateC            :D
18:06 bag              :D
18:06 Brooke           nuffin in the agenda here
18:06 JesseM           #info
18:06 Brooke           and no one is saying a word, soooooo
18:07 Brooke           #topic Roadmap to 3.4
18:07 JesseM           #info Jesse Maseto, ByWater Solutions
18:07 * slef           looks for the agenda
18:07 Brooke           http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_Meeting,_21_March_2012
18:07 mtj              #info last Koha IRC meeting notes -> http://librarypolice.com/koha-meetings/2011/koha.2011-12-07-18.00.html
18:08 Brooke           sweet, ta
18:08 slef             cool. I'd got November's for some reason :-/
18:08 wizzyrea         ping chris_n
18:08 slef             confused the hell out of me
18:08 chris_n          here. sorry
18:08 Brooke           no problem, we suck a lot of work out of ye
18:09 chris_n          3.4 has taken a back seat atm
18:09 chris_n          I hope to do at least one  more release
18:09 chris_n          but not this month unfortunately
18:09 * rangi          is doing kids breakfast will be around from the bus
18:09 chris_n          I think that's it for 3.4
18:09 Brooke           okie dokie
18:10 Brooke           any questions for the generous Chris N?
18:10 Brooke           movin' on then
18:10 Brooke           #topic Roadmap to 3.6
18:10 chris_n          #info Chris Nighswonger, FBC
18:10 chris_n          me again, heh? ;-)
18:10 chris_n          ok
18:11 chris_n          I plan to do a March 3.6 release
18:11 chris_n          but may not be able to make it until second week in April
18:11 chris_n          for those of you who may not know, my wife had a double cervical spine fusion earlier this month
18:11 chris_n          so that's put a bit of a cramp in my schedule
18:12 chris_n          that's it for 3.6
18:12 chris_n          :)
18:12 Brooke           :)
18:12 Brooke           any questions on 3.6 folks?
18:12 data_doctor      Looking forward to faster pageloads on patron records!
18:13 data_doctor      Compared to 3.5
18:13 data_doctor      Great work!
18:14 mle              #info Matthew Edmondson, sc
18:14 Brooke           #topic Roadmap to 3.8
18:14 cait             paul_p is not going to be here tonight
18:14 oleonard         The agenda says feature freeze Monday
18:15 cait             good point
18:15 data_doctor      I'm feeling chilly already
18:15 Brooke           the Apologies said that, but I saw a paul p bounce in and out earlier
18:15 oleonard         The librarians here at Hackfest are working very hard to test
18:15 Brooke           so I was hopeful :)
18:15 cait             and the mailnig lists show that clearly :)
18:15 cait             there is a big group testing
18:15 chris_n          testing++
18:16 Brooke           the agenda also says ginourmous performance gain
18:16 slef             cait: I though the reason for this being so late in the month was so it was during Marseille hackfest :-/
18:16 chris_n          hackfest_participants++
18:16 cait             it's evening
18:16 oleonard         slef, I think we must have gotten something mixed up somehow
18:16 cait             so most have gone home, we are at the hotel now
18:16 cait             perhaps it was a time confusion
18:16 dpavlin          plack helpd a bit... we have 0.7-2.5 s page load with plack (slow for search results, fast for eveyrhing lese)
18:17 dpavlin          s/lese/else/
18:17 Brooke           slef: I was unavailable the first week
18:18 Brooke           no one wanted to do me jorb.
18:18 data_doctor      In what areas do you see performance gains in 3.8?
18:18 slef             Brooke: ah. I was unavailable last meeting, so couldn't offer :)
18:18 jcamins          data_doctor: that's probably better discussed after the meeting.
18:19 data_doctor      sure thing :)
18:19 oleonard         besides, dpavlin's work won't be in 3.8
18:19 Brooke           why
18:19 Brooke           I think that's scarily relevant :D
18:20 dpavlin          oleonard: It wont?
18:20 Brooke           unless no one can tell us that's here
18:20 Brooke           in which case we'll move on
18:20 oleonard         Oh, if I'm mistaken dpavlin correct me
18:20 oleonard         Perhaps I misunderstood what you were referring to
18:20 jcamins          Brooke: my understanding was that this is a proof-of-concept for 3.10.
18:21 jcamins          Brooke: I could be mistaken.
18:22 cait             I think it will probably be
18:22 Brooke           hooray for that :D
18:22 cait             not sure .) dpavlin?
18:22 cait             I mean a proof of concept and starting work
18:22 Brooke           also dpavlin++
18:22 cait             yes dpavlin++
18:22 sekjal           sorry I'm late
18:22 dpavlin          We won't have full plack in 3.8 for sure, but I hope that some changes which are prereq will land before freeze
18:23 dpavlin          but, I *do* intend to run plack from next week on in my library, so... ;-)
18:23 sekjal           #info Ian Walls, 3.8 QAM
18:23 cait             dpavlin: testing is good :)
18:24 bag              hmm dpavlin do you have a git repo somewhere that we could look at?  Or your plack configs
18:24 dpavlin          http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Plack is probably good place to get started with latest development
18:24 bag              I'd be more than willing to throw that up on a community testing server
18:24 bag              ah cool yeah I saw that
18:25 cait             bag: I think they only began this week
18:25 Brooke           #info http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Plack Plack and Performance stuff
18:25 cait             and have been working on patches all day that are in bugzilla now :)
18:25 Brooke           cait++
18:25 Brooke           thanks everyone at the hackfest
18:25 bag              ah yeah with help from hdl we did that in NZ..  but there were certain problems :)
18:25 dpavlin          opac is much more stable in plack than intranet and it's already used by one franch library in production.
18:26 Brooke           hopefully Paul is filling you all with wine and cheese :D
18:26 cait             no wine, but we had cheese :)
18:26 bag              right - it's circ that matters the most :)
18:26 * slef           has wine. Not French, though.
18:26 bag              dpavlin: I'd also suggest trying starman too - or at least testing it…  :)
18:27 Brooke           dpavlin does it speed the opac searching a bit? I've noticed a difference in speed between what I think is a fuzzy search and not. Hopefully that whittles some of the time off.
18:27 sekjal           dpavlin:  will plack work help with running Koha on mod_perl?
18:27 bag              sekjal: it should
18:28 dpavlin          Brooke: it does help a bit with opac (mostly module loading time)
18:28 Brooke           sweet :D good to know
18:28 sekjal           awesome
18:29 dpavlin          sekjal: it *probably* will help with mod_perl, since we can wrap plack in mod_perl, but starman seems like better soltion, mostly because of leeking memory...
18:29 larryb           hello
18:29 Brooke           any other burning 3.8 commentary?
18:29 sekjal           working on bug 5549 fixes
18:29 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5549 enhancement, P1 - high, ---, chris, Failed QA , Hourly Loans
18:30 sekjal           should be ready before feature freeze
18:30 bag              gmcharlt: you around?
18:30 Brooke           #Info Feature Freeze is Monday. Yes really.
18:30 larryb           #info Larry Baerveldt, ByWater Solutions
18:31 Brooke           moving on then
18:31 bag              sekjal have you seen gmcharlt at computers in libraries
18:31 Brooke           #topic Roles for 3.10
18:31 rangi            #info Chris Cormack at the bus stop
18:31 bag              if so ask him about DOM indexing for biblios
18:31 jenkins_koha     Project Koha_master build #670: STILL UNSTABLE in 45 mn: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/670/
18:31 jenkins_koha     * kyle: Bug 7597 - Part 1 - fines not recording the right info in the stats table
18:31 jenkins_koha     * kyle: Bug 7597 - Part 2 - move sub writeoff to C4::Accounts
18:31 jenkins_koha     * kyle: Bug 7597 - Part 3 - fines not recording the right info in the stats table
18:31 jenkins_koha     * kyle: Bug 7597 - Part 4 - Change C4::Acounts::WriteOff to WriteOffFee
18:31 jenkins_koha     * kyle: Bug 7597 - Part 5 - Remove my from $branch, which was masking previous declaration
18:31 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7597 critical, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Pushed to Master , fines not recording the right info in the stats table
18:31 jenkins_koha     * julian.maurice: Bug 7169: Change booksellers search results display
18:31 bag              I think his goal was before freature freeze
18:31 jenkins_koha     * julian.maurice: Bug 7169: Follow-up: Change booksellers search results display
18:31 jenkins_koha     * maxime.pelletier: Singlebranchmode was always 0 causing the branch to be null and the reservations in the OPAC not to work in singlebranchmode.
18:31 jenkins_koha     * adrien.saurat: Bug 7748: use of TT date filter on addorderiso2709
18:31 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7169 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Pushed to Master , Change booksellers search results display
18:31 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7748 trivial, P5 - low, ---, adrien.saurat, Pushed to Master , Date not formatted on "Add orders from iso2709 file" page
18:32 slef             jenkins_koha: mute
18:32 jenkins_koha     slef did you mean me? Unknown command 'mute'
18:32 jenkins_koha     Use '!jenkins help' to get help!
18:32 melia            galen said he plans to have a branch submitted by this friday for DOM indexing
18:32 bag              ah thanks melia  - well anyways sekjal if you see him - ask him :)
18:33 sekjal           bag:   no, haven't seen gmcharlt here
18:33 rangi            Just don't push things and Jenkins will be quiet
18:33 bag              thanks
18:33 rangi            So 3.10 roles?
18:33 wizzyrea         paul is gone, that job started before the meeting :P
18:33 Brooke           rangi yep
18:33 rangi            Then quit moaning :)
18:34 cait             we are still missing candidates for 2 important roles
18:34 Brooke           looks like way more than 2 cait
18:34 cait             translation manager and qa manager
18:34 Brooke           #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Roles_for_3.10
18:34 wizzyrea         db doc manager and doc manager?
18:34 * cait           searches for the link
18:34 wizzyrea         it's on the agenda :)
18:34 cait             ok, my scrolling is broken again
18:35 libsysguy        back
18:35 jcamins          Three important roles, at least. Translation manager, QAM, and packaging manager, assuming that nengard is willing to do docs again.
18:35 libsysguy        #info Elliott Davis - UT Tyler
18:36 Brooke           nengard's puppy is sick, so perhaps that is why she is elsewhere.
18:36 bag              I think nengard is up for doc manager again…
18:36 slef             Brooke: I think she's at an event too
18:36 bag              she's at or on her way to computers in libraries
18:36 rangi            Im sure eythian will continue packaging
18:36 sekjal           nengard is in her room working on CiL presentation, I think
18:36 sekjal           we'd met for lunch earlier
18:36 slef             ah, the internet, top stalking tool
18:37 Brooke           enywhooo
18:37 Brooke           think about if you want to volunteer for one of those posts
18:37 thd              I suspect lack of names in the wiki for roles is from lack of attention to 3.10 roles in the wiki.
18:37 Brooke           find someone that's done it in the past to see if you're a match
18:37 Brooke           and uh
18:37 mtj              i wanna do packing stuff too
18:37 Brooke           yeah.
18:38 thd              fredericd: are you extant?
18:38 oleonard         Since we don't have all the volunteers, there's not much we can do. Except maybe propose a deadline?
18:38 Brooke           #help Fill the Slots on the Roles for 3.10 page with Volunteers
18:39 rangi            It's not easily split mtj but u could do some cpan packaging that would help
18:39 Brooke           oleonard I agree and would add that it's rapidly approaching
18:39 jcamins          mtj: could you put yourself and eythian down as packaging managers?
18:39 rangi            Ask eythian about the debian Perl team
18:39 cait             I think that's what we did for 3.8
18:40 jcamins          Or packaging manager and grasshopper? :)
18:40 mtj              rangi:  *nod* and jcamins , yep :)
18:40 Brooke           would anyone be so kind as to send out a message to the lists looking for help?
18:40 rangi            Qam is the big one IMHO
18:40 slef             #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Roles_for_3.10
18:40 cait             yep
18:41 cait             we really need to find qam and one more assistant I think
18:41 jcamins          cait: has joubu said anything about continuing (or not)?
18:41 cait             not afaik
18:41 * sekjal         would like to keep contributing to QA efforts
18:42 jcamins          sekjal++
18:42 dpavlin          sekjal++
18:42 cait             sekjal++
18:42 rangi            Cool assistant?
18:42 rangi            Or manager?
18:42 cait             quick, someone should edit the wiki ;)
18:42 * oleonard       checks the locks on sekjal's shackles
18:42 * sekjal         is uneasy about volunteering for a 3rd QAM term, with the recent job change
18:42 * Brooke         helps oleonard.
18:43 Brooke           does Cait have the time for QAM?
18:43 rangi            Assistant makes sense
18:44 cait             I think qam manager requiresmore skills than I currently have
18:44 cait             hopefully one day
18:45 mtj              hmm, i think i could help out with some QA stuff, too?
18:45 wizzyrea         mtj you'd probably be good at that.
18:45 rangi            We can't convince Marcel to do Qam and get another assistant?
18:45 Brooke           Bus Driver's empty
18:46 cait             I like rangi's idea
18:46 * jcamins        too
18:46 bag              how about a bunch of assistants but no M
18:46 * chris_n        points cait to the koha user's list
18:46 cait             hm?
18:46 Brooke           bag how'd that work?
18:47 rangi            Bag: don't think that will work
18:47 sekjal           I think the only difference between assistants and the manager is as tie-breaker and work allocater
18:47 sekjal           or at least that's how it worked this last cycle
18:47 bag              which I think cait could do :)
18:47 bag              but mainly it's better than nothing
18:47 Brooke           anchio Brendan
18:47 rangi            Not if she doesn't want to
18:48 oleonard         Sure, if we're allowed to draft people we can just get rangi again :P
18:48 cait             I am torn
18:48 * Brooke         bribes Cait with sweets.
18:48 cait             I am not sure I would be good for this job
18:48 bag              we've had releases with no QA before and I think we need to at least think about how to work with assistants
18:48 * Brooke         is pretty darn sure.
18:48 cait             I can offer to think about it
18:48 rangi            Bag ur joking right?
18:48 cait             but qama not qam
18:49 * Brooke         does the happy dance.
18:49 sekjal           QA team is required
18:49 Brooke           ^
18:49 bag              well what if no one volunteers for QAM rangi
18:49 sekjal           but whether one stands apart from the rest as 'manager'...
18:49 cait             bag: I think it's too early to say noone volunteers
18:49 sekjal           I'm not sure I see the immediate difference in workflow
18:49 cait             and we really need one
18:49 bag              thanks sekjal that is what I was trying to say
18:50 sekjal           perhaps it's just that QAM is ultimately on the hook for all the QA team?
18:50 Brooke           pretty much
18:50 sekjal           ... that doesn't sound right, though, since RM can jump QA, at his own discretion and peril
18:51 jcamins          sekjal: there has to be someone who can say definitively "this does not pass QA." With four QAAs, you have a situation where everyone has to offer an opinion.
18:51 jcamins          (and then you'd have a deadlock)
18:51 jcamins          Okay, consider the situation with five QAAs.
18:52 sekjal           if we're thinking of QAM in this regard, as a tie-breaker and responsible party, then it doesn't sound like it's that different than the day to day of QA
18:52 mtj              ok, so we may not get a QAM role confirmed today... :)
18:52 thd              If no one would come forward, for QAM, the authority of main QAM could rotate by week, or by 'tag you are it'.
18:53 sekjal           and if it's not a change in normal workflow, then I think I could take on the additional work going from QAA to QAM
18:53 wizzyrea         or what if the qam was really the one to say "these problems identified by the assistants are no-go's, this fails"
18:53 bag              there we go thd is thinking outside the box :)
18:53 sekjal           if everyone is comfortable with that
18:53 bag              or what wizzyrea said :)
18:53 Brooke           that seems like more articulations than are strictly necessary
18:53 thd              wizzyrea++
18:54 jcamins          sekjal++
18:54 rangi            How about we post to the mailing list
18:54 wizzyrea         though I'd probably be happier if sekjal just stayed on :P
18:54 Brooke           what if the QAM were Wizzyrea?
18:54 Brooke           >.>
18:54 Brooke           <.<
18:54 thd              We need not choose today.
18:54 wizzyrea         if he feels able.
18:54 rangi            And see who applies
18:54 Brooke           yeah thd prolly discussed this to death
18:54 wizzyrea         yes, lets do that.
18:54 jcamins          Makes sense.
18:54 Brooke           so think about volunteering
18:54 mtj              hmm, well sekjal has a beard... does that not give him more QA authority?
18:55 thd              We can discuss the problem of an empty main role further if it actually happens.
18:55 bag              beards++
18:55 Brooke           beards--
18:55 Brooke           #topic KohaCon201`2
18:55 Brooke           take it away MJ
18:55 cait             I thnk we should have the next meeting before release then - only noting for later
18:55 Brooke           #topic KohaCon2012
18:56 slef             ok
18:56 mle              k
18:56 Brooke           cait yep I agree, we'll sort that later, though
18:56 talljoy          #info Joy Nelson ByWater Solutions
18:56 slef             mle is leading on all things Edinburgh, I'm going to lead the schedule
18:57 slef             mle, say whatever you want, plus correct me when I good
18:57 slef             goof ;)
18:57 slef             we've got some great volunteers already, but could do with more
18:57 * oleonard       waves, leaving for dinner
18:57 slef             I've posted a form so people can request invitations at
18:58 slef             #link http://koha-community.org/kohacon12/
18:58 slef             for sponsors or visas or that sort of thing.
18:58 mle              one question i have for this meeting is whether it would be handy to ask our Edinburgh friends for sofa spaces?
18:58 slef             The next things to open are papers and general registrations, I think, which will be on that same web page.
18:58 mle              ther are lots of cheap hostels though ; /
18:59 slef             Thanks to wizzyrea for help setting that page up.
18:59 jcamins          mle: only the locals know where to get good haggis.
18:59 Brooke           yes MLE
18:59 wizzyrea         ! you're welcome but you really did it :P
18:59 wizzyrea         so, slef++
18:59 rangi            Yep on that page is good I think
18:59 slef             If you'd like to help volunteer, msg me for the email address.
18:59 slef             help by volunteering
19:00 slef             as I'm clearly so overloaded I've not time to type full words, clearly
19:00 slef             :)
19:00 wizzyrea         and/or repeating yourself :)
19:00 slef             wizzyrea: The next things to open are papers and general registrations
19:00 mle              so I need numbers but if there is ineterest I can ask for sofa spaces
19:01 Brooke           #Info If you want to crash and have no dough, please talk to mle about sofa spaces
19:01 mle              we are looking to pledgebank the excursion day, so we must get on with that. But I would be keen to get numbers/interest for a fishing trip.
19:01 rangi            Ok bus stop brb
19:02 mle              #Info if you are a looking for a sofa space ask me ASAP so that I can see what can be done. : )
19:03 thd              mle: Where is the place in which you are acquiring information about numbers?
19:03 slef             help
19:03 slef             ok, I just got confused
19:03 slef             sorry about that
19:03 mle              thd good question.
19:03 slef             did any known volunteers not get yesterday's or today's emails?
19:04 slef             ah, never mind, it just got stuck in some filters.
19:04 slef             (at the volunteer side, not ours)
19:05 Brooke           will there be an IRC meeting about KohaCon?
19:05 slef             We'll be posting a call for sponsors soon, but we've had a small setback with our first choice on that.
19:06 mle              Brooke we shoudl have an IRC chan for KohaCon12
19:06 Brooke           dunno
19:06 thd              mle: a separate channel, really?
19:06 Brooke           seems like there's enough material to at least warrant a meeting
19:06 Brooke           could be wrong, though
19:07 rangi            back
19:07 slef             I'm 90% sure there will be a Gold Sponsor package where you get everything we're offering in exchange for amounts > N, so if any organisations would like to suggest numbers, please do.
19:07 slef             Brooke: you might be right now, or at least there will be soon.
19:08 * Brooke         nods.
19:08 slef             Any first suggestions for a time/date? Give me 5 and I'll run a poll.
19:09 slef             OK, I'll pull 5 out of my nose
19:09 mle              wednesdays at 18:00
19:10 slef             mle: UTC, BST or what? ;)
19:10 mle              BST ; )
19:10 cait             heh
19:10 cait             wednesday is fine for me
19:10 cait             will be travelling until tuesday
19:10 mle              great
19:11 Brooke           #info KohaCon meetings Wednesdays at 18.00 mebbe
19:11 Brooke           anything else on KohaCon
19:11 Brooke           ?
19:11 slef             ok any more suggestions? I expect wed 19:00 UTC to be popular here, as it's roughly when we're all here.
19:11 slef             Not unless anyone has more questions?
19:11 rangi            that is i think 7am thursday for me
19:11 rangi            which is good
19:12 sekjal           btw, nengard says she accepts 3.10 Doc Manager
19:12 Brooke           eggsellent.
19:12 mle              thd: kohacon12ATsoftwareDOTcoop should be operational now.  numbers, questions etc.
19:12 rangi            sweet
19:12 rangi            nengard++
19:13 Brooke           #topic GBSW
19:13 Brooke           It's Global Bug Squashing Week
19:13 Brooke           grab a sandbox
19:13 Brooke           squash things.
19:13 rangi            kristina did a nice post about it
19:13 sekjal           lots of signoffs and QA passings so far this week
19:13 sekjal           more to come
19:13 Brooke           if you don't link it, it doesn't exist ;)
19:13 slef             why do my sandboxes always fill with quicksand and eat me?
19:14 rangi            http://virtualbreath.net/curious/2012/03/21/squashing-bugs/
19:14 cait             yes
19:14 cait             even with all the hackfest librarians
19:14 cait             there are sitll a lot of things to be tested
19:14 cait             and bugs to be squashed
19:15 cait             I started looking through the list of critical bugs soome days ago
19:15 cait             there is lots of work to do!
19:15 rangi            yep
19:15 sekjal           hourly loans is nearly ready
19:15 rangi            yay!
19:15 cait             please don't only focus on ne features (I know we all love them) - but also look out for bugs to be fixed!
19:16 cait             and tested... and so on
19:16 sekjal           I've got a patch ready to test that should fix the suspension in days issues found at hackfest
19:16 rangi            sweet, i still cant replicate the renewal issue
19:16 Brooke           speak of the devil :D
19:16 sekjal           rangi: nor I
19:16 cait             hm
19:16 cait             itemlevel itypes?
19:16 cait             not sure
19:16 cait             or something else being different?
19:17 anitsirk         hi Brooke. :-)
19:17 anitsirk         .. and all others
19:17 tajoli           hi all
19:18 cait             hi anitsirk :)
19:18 anitsirk         hi cait
19:18 cait             hi zeno - back home?
19:18 Brooke           so moving on
19:18 tajoli           yes
19:18 tajoli           just arrive
19:18 Brooke           #topic Actions from Last Meeting
19:18 Brooke           there's not much meat there
19:19 Brooke           there were a few things discussed over the lists, which I think is good
19:19 Brooke           because there definitely seems like there was less minutia in this meeting, which is also happy
19:20 thd              :)
19:20 Brooke           any other old business apart from me?
19:20 Brooke           #topic Miscellaneous
19:20 Brooke           any general stuff?
19:20 * mle            chuckles
19:21 Brooke           #topic Time and Date of Next General Meeting
19:21 Brooke           so the request was for before 23 april
19:22 Brooke           which I think we can do
19:22 Brooke           we might even have 2 in april if folks feel the need
19:22 Brooke           so we can have one for nominations and one for actual voting
19:22 Brooke           or not
19:22 Brooke           whatevs.
19:22 cait             not sure
19:22 Brooke           4 April is the first Wednesday
19:22 Brooke           conflicts on that?
19:22 cait             should work for me
19:23 sekjal           sound workable to me
19:23 rangi            email about roles needs to go out asap then
19:23 tajoli           for me +1
19:23 rangi            to give time for ppl to talk to husbands, wives, bosses etc
19:23 slef             NAFAIK. 10am UTC?
19:23 Brooke           next one is meant to be 10.00 UTC
19:23 Brooke           rangi are you volunteering to do that?
19:23 rangi            no
19:23 Brooke           cause if not, we need someone to
19:24 Brooke           #help someone send a reminder like yesterday about roles to be filled for next meeting
19:24 Brooke           so proper vote please
19:24 Brooke           next meeting
19:24 wahanui          next meeting is 14 June 2011 1800 UTC+0
19:25 Brooke           4 April 10 UTC
19:25 slef             wahanui: forget next meeting
19:25 wahanui          slef: I forgot next meeting
19:25 Brooke           +1 for this is good with you
19:25 slef             +1
19:25 rangi            +1
19:25 * thd            exempts himself from email writing as he departs the city for a few days in search of cold weather.
19:25 wizzyrea         +1
19:25 thd              +1
19:26 mtj              +1
19:26 cait             +1
19:27 Brooke           #agreed Time and Date of Next General Meeting is 4 April 10.00 UTC
19:27 Brooke           #endmeeting
19:27 huginn           Meeting ended Wed Mar 21 19:26:49 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
19:27 huginn           Minutes:        http://librarypolice.com/koha-meetings/2012/koha.2012-03-21-18.00.html
19:27 huginn           Minutes (text): http://librarypolice.com/koha-meetings/2012/koha.2012-03-21-18.00.txt
19:27 huginn           Log:            http://librarypolice.com/koha-meetings/2012/koha.2012-03-21-18.00.log.html
19:27 Brooke           hooray I'm free. :D
19:28 anitsirk         you did a good job from what i saw, Brooke :-)
19:28 * Brooke         blushes.
19:28 mtj              cheers Brooke, very smooth !
19:28 Brooke           ta
19:28 druthb           Brooke++
19:28 data_doctor      talkulater!
19:28 thd              Brooke only does a less than good job when absent.
19:29 slef             coding guidelines?
19:29 * druthb         pauses to try to parse thd's statement, then agrees with him.
19:29 slef             wahanui: guidelines?
19:29 wahanui          slef: wish i knew
19:29 slef             wahanui: you swine
19:29 wahanui          slef: huh?
19:29 slef             coding guidelines are http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Coding_Guidelines
19:33 rangi            minutes updated, and next meeting page made
19:33 rangi            http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting,_4_April_2012
19:33 slef             shall I mail out about Roles?
19:33 rangi            so someone can do that email now
19:33 rangi            yay slef :)
19:35 Brooke           yes thanks slef
19:36 cait             slef++
19:37 slef             rangi: 1-:00 UTC, really? ;-)
19:39 rangi            he
19:39 Brooke           hi kathryn
19:39 rangi            h
19:39 rangi            close enough
19:39 rangi            fixed
19:39 kathryn          hi brooke : )
19:41 slef             mail sent
19:41 rangi            thanks
19:41 rangi            slef++
19:43 libsysguy        chat log
19:43 libsysguy        log?
19:43 wahanui          log is at http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/
19:44 mle              anyone want travel help from london to edinburgh?  I can help you book tickets. if we book in the next few days some cheap ones may still be available.
19:44 slef             see if you can spot where the mail text came from :)
19:45 slef             mle: I'm thinking that travel info and an "ask us" form on http://koha-community.org/kohacon12/ might be worthwhile.
19:45 rangi            mle: im flying in
19:45 rangi            so any tips from getting from the airport into the general conf vicinity would be handy
19:45 mle              slef just reminding folk that the cheap train tickets need to be booked asap
19:45 rangi            also, pre paid sim cards .. with data plans
19:46 slef             mle: I'm guessing booking at http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/ is the cheapest trains London-Edinburgh? Web-only fares, collect at King's Cross departure gates.
19:46 rangi            they are able to be bought easily?
19:46 mle              rangi we can check that
19:46 rangi            thanks mle
19:46 slef             rangi: yes, walk into shops. Good to check for best deals closer to the time.
19:46 rangi            cool
19:46 jcamins          rangi: getting from EDI airport to the city is very easy.
19:47 rangi            yay!
19:47 * slef           did this for a prepaid internet dongle just before Christmas.
19:48 cait             :)
19:48 slef             mle: "Tickets are now available for travel up to and including Friday 08 June 2012, Click below to get ticket alerts" on http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/ so I guess it's not quite time to book if you want to return after hackfest.
19:48 cait             also flying in
19:48 cait             all booked
19:48 slef             cait: to EDI?
19:48 cait             yes
19:48 cait             via amsterdam
19:48 slef             KLM?
19:48 cait             from zürich
19:48 cait             yes
19:49 slef             cool, not used them for years
19:49 cait             I flew to marseille with them last year
19:49 cait             was ok
19:50 jcamins          KLM is great for EDI-NYC.
19:51 rangi            eythian and I are coming in on singapore (then i guess BA)
19:51 rangi            same day as cait
19:51 cait             yep about 2 hours later than me
19:51 rangi            so we will probably travel from the airport together
19:51 cait             or 1?
19:51 cait             can't remember, but will probably be well rested and wait for the 2 tired nzers
19:53 rangi            we'll have been travelling for 40+ hours
19:53 rangi            so will probably be zombies
19:53 rangi            so someone awake would be helpful
19:54 cait             :)
19:54 cait             I will be glad
19:54 cait             to help
19:54 kathryn          hi cait - he he good luck with that!
19:54 cait             I had jo picking me up from the airport in wellington
19:54 cait             and was soooo glad to see her
19:54 cait             I asked her later how she recognized me
19:54 cait             I think she said something like I looked most tired and glad to be finally there
19:54 jcamins          cait: I suggest you hold up a sign that says "WELCOME TO [SOMEWHERE-NOT-EDINBURGH]"
19:55 cait             lol
20:06 libsysguy        sekjal i've been gone most of the day...did I miss anything in regards to 5549?
20:07 sekjal           libsysguy:  I just sent rangi my patch
20:07 sekjal           fixes suspension in days, and that 'inverse' bug
20:08 libsysguy        eek i better send rangi my patch as well
20:09 rangi            you better!
20:09 rangi            whats your patch for libsysguy ?
20:09 sekjal           there are going to be some merge conflicts rebasing this branch for latest master
20:09 sekjal           one in smart-rules.tt
20:10 libsysguy        I found an error in circ/returns.pl during dropbox mode
20:10 libsysguy        returns.pl didn't know where the format_date function was
20:10 sekjal           a small one in catalogue/moredetail.pl, and updatedatabase.pl (of course)
20:10 sekjal           libsysguy:  I fixed that!
20:10 rangi            ill rebase it too and push it
20:10 libsysguy        dang it sekjal
20:10 libsysguy        rangi ignore my email
20:11 rangi            actually no i wont
20:11 rangi            ill merge from master
20:11 libsysguy        sekjals skill is far superior to mine
20:11 sekjal           sorry, libsysguy, I thought it was a bug I'd made
20:11 rangi            rebasing breaks history, and will make it a mess for anyone who has pulled that branch
20:11 libsysguy        it might have been, I checked out and was testing
20:11 rangi            so ill just merge master in and fix conflicts and push it
20:12 sekjal           there is also a DB rev number issue in the code pushed for 7301
20:12 sekjal           erk, 7310
20:12 mtj              chat log?
20:12 wahanui          chat log is http://irc.koha-community.org/irclog/koha/
20:13 rangi            sekjal: the patch from libsysguy guy arrived .. which i ignore right? but no sign of yours yet
20:13 jcamins          logs?
20:13 wahanui          logs are at http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/
20:14 rangi            same site
20:14 rangi            just in case you were wondering
20:14 rangi            my computer at home :)
20:14 libsysguy        yes rangi ignore mine
20:15 jcamins          rangi: I didn't notice that wahanui had responded, but early I saw him not respond to "chat log," only to "logs."
20:15 sekjal           rangi:  blast, my laptop is not set up right
20:15 jcamins          *earlier
20:15 mtj              logs?
20:15 wahanui          logs are at http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/
20:16 mtj              logs?
20:16 wahanui          somebody said logs was http://irc.koha-community.org/irclog/koha/
20:16 rangi            sekjal: can you push it somewhere and ill cherry-pick ?
20:16 rangi            if thats easier
20:16 sekjal           rangi: sent another way
20:16 sekjal           will show up as attached patch file
20:17 rangi            sweet as
20:17 rangi            brb getting coffee
20:20 sekjal           rangi:  actually, hang on
20:20 sekjal           libsysguy's patch fixed dropboxmode
20:20 sekjal           mine fixed debar date
20:21 sekjal           so we'll conflict on [% USE KohaDates %], but otherwise, both patches should be necessary
20:21 rangi            right ill do both then :)
20:22 libsysguy        sweet!
20:22 sekjal           I think I need a nap
20:22 libsysguy        brb
20:22 sekjal           or a beer
20:25 sekjal           oh, geeze, 34 bugs in the QAQ
20:25 sekjal           I had it so well under control!
20:26 rangi            right applying patches now
20:31 rangi            pushed .. now im gonna merge master in .. and push again
20:37 rangi            ok
20:37 rangi            pushed
20:37 cait             yay :)
20:38 libsysguy_afk    yayy
20:39 libsysguy        is the hackfest over
20:39 cait             no not yet
20:39 cait             only sleeping :)
20:39 cait             lasts until friday
20:39 jcamins          Sleep?
20:39 jcamins          There's no sleep during the hackfest!
20:39 libsysguy        Koha never sleeps
20:39 sekjal           rangi: pulled
20:39 jcamins          You should be doing relaxing hacking!
20:39 sekjal           looks good
20:39 wizzyrea         get more caffiene!
20:39 rangi            excellent
20:39 wizzyrea         wait.
20:39 wizzyrea         no.
20:39 wizzyrea         3x days of hackfest... it's prolly time for a break. :)
20:40 jcamins          "This is your code."
20:40 jcamins          "This is your code on caffeine."
20:40 wizzyrea         THISISYOURCODEONCAFFIENE
20:40 jcamins          lol
20:40 * sekjal         needs some caffeine.... serious conference fatigue setting in
20:40 cait             jcamins: I am
20:40 cait             putting in ids and classes into cataloguing
20:40 wizzyrea         oy there is nothing worse than conference caffiene
20:40 jcamins          :)
20:40 wizzyrea         wait
20:40 cait             and I have decided that the class will be named cat
20:40 wizzyrea         conference fatigue
20:40 cait             because we need more cats in koha ;)
20:40 rangi            heh
20:40 wizzyrea         hehe
20:40 jcamins          cait++
20:43 sekjal           I'm going to take a break.  hopefully I'll be back on later this evening to clean out more of the QAQ
20:45 sekjal           later, all
20:52 rangi            heya jransom
20:54 cait             hi jransom :)
21:00 rangi            slef: thanks for testing bug 7613
21:00 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7613 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, srdjan, Needs Signoff , OCLC Connexion Gateway
21:02 cait             hm
21:02 cait             moveitem lives in cataloguing... but for styling... perhaps more catalog?
21:05 rangi            hmm
21:05 rangi            yeah
21:05 cait             same for link item?
21:06 rangi            i think so
21:07 cait             k
21:11 cait             circ is next
21:11 rangi            yay for styling the intranet!
21:11 cait             lol
21:12 cait             there has been some work done by gaetan and asaurat on the start page today
21:13 rangi            awesome
21:14 cait             :)
21:18 * magnuse        waves
21:18 bag              heya magnuse
21:18 wahanui          it has been said that magnuse is afraid that we added another 10000 bugs while he was eating pizza.
21:18 bag              heh
21:18 magnuse          hehe
21:18 magnuse          hiya bag
21:18 jransom          heya all
21:19 jcamins          Mmm. Pizza. I look forward to pizza Friday in nine days.
21:19 magnuse          kia ora jransom!!!
21:19 rangi            hey magnuse :)
21:20 jransom          magnus :)
21:20 magnuse          hiya rangi
21:20 * magnuse        is on the 20th floor of a hotel in stavanger :-)
21:20 magnuse          @wunder stavanger
21:20 huginn           magnuse: The current temperature in Stavanger, Norway is 8.0°C (9:50 PM CET on March 21, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: 6.0°C. Pressure: 30.48 in 1032 hPa (Steady).
21:20 jransom          rangi: discoverd the root of a bad bug fix was me giving giving bad instructions ... having to apologise profusely now to cjh
21:23 rangi            hehe :)
21:23 rangi            programmers
21:23 rangi            we do what you say
21:23 rangi            not what you mean :)
21:23 * cjh            is enjoying not being a *complete* idiot
21:26 gmcharlt         programmers: we sometimes mistake ourselves for being the computers ;)
21:27 * wizzyrea       does a doubletake
21:27 cait             heya gmcharlt :)
21:27 wizzyrea         hi gmcharlt
21:27 gmcharlt         howdy
21:27 wahanui          privet, gmcharlt
21:27 jransom          lol - poor cjh and its about time you lot learnt to read librarisn minds and not rely on what we write
21:27 wizzyrea         take a screenshot!
21:27 wizzyrea         ^.^
21:28 jransom          wonders if the rst of the world knows about bucklame
21:28 gmcharlt         oh, I'm quite sure it's harmless
21:28 cait             hey eythian in bucklame
21:29 cait             this part of the world does :)
21:29 gmcharlt         but in this case, I have to prove to the customer that it is
21:29 gmcharlt         heh, wrong window - ignore any discussion of harmful kitties ;)
21:29 rangi            hehe
21:31 slef             rangi: no problem. I'm in that bit of the code this weekk.
21:32 jcamins          gmcharlt: bag was looking for you.
21:32 bag              no not really - but hi gmcharlt
21:33 slef             anyone know if I can lengthen my login timeout on the wiki, or if a sysadmin (gmcharlt? thd?) can?
21:33 slef             it's rather irritating going afk for an hour, then having to log in again
21:34 slef             jcamins: how does one reach the city from Edinburgh Airport then?
21:35 jcamins          slef: these are the directions from the international arrivals area. Domestic arrivals are slightly closer, I think.
21:35 jcamins          When you come through customs, there is a clearly marked exit on your right.
21:35 jcamins          Ignore it.
21:35 jcamins          If you go out that door, you will get hopelessly lost and confused.
21:36 jcamins          Walk straight by it, between the car rental stand and the exchange place.
21:36 jcamins          It's not a very long walk, but you do want to walk up a bit.
21:36 jcamins          (inside the terminal)
21:37 jcamins          Eventually you reach a bank of doors. I think there are three. Go out.
21:37 jcamins          You should see the big blue Airlink buses.
21:38 jcamins          There's also a sign that says "Fly by bus."
21:38 jcamins          Go up to the bus.
21:38 slef             jcamins: that the one that drops you at Waverley Bridge?
21:38 jcamins          slef: yeah.
21:38 slef             jcamins: cool, thanks.
21:39 jcamins          slef: you're welcome.
21:39 jcamins          Actually, I think the last time I was there they even had a kiosk selling tickets.
21:39 jcamins          (under the big sign that said "Fly by bus")
21:39 slef             jcamins: when do these details date from?
21:40 jcamins          slef: 2009.
21:40 jcamins          So, I guess it's been a while, at this point.
21:40 jcamins          The bus page is http://www.flybybus.com/
21:40 cait             wow
21:40 cait             you have an amazing memory
21:41 jcamins          cait: did I mention that the flight attendents between AMS and EDI knew me?
21:41 wizzyrea         later peeps
21:41 cait             ?
21:41 cait             later wizzyrea :)
21:41 rangi            cya wizzyrea
21:41 jcamins          cait: because I flew so often!
21:41 slef             jcamins: OK if I post that to the wiki?
21:43 jcamins          slef: sure, go ahead.
21:43 jcamins          Other people may not be so confused if they go out the first door.
21:43 jcamins          I sure was, though.
21:53 slef             http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon12_Summary#Travel_Tips updated
21:55 rangi            cool
21:57 mbalmer          evening, koha..
21:59 cait             good night #koha
22:00 mbalmer          heh, shift change ;)
22:01 mbalmer          jcamins, replied to your worries.
22:04 jcamins          mbalmer: I don't think your reply attached.
22:04 mbalmer          my hotel wifi is shaky, to say the least...
22:05 mbalmer          in short, it's teh least invasice approach and a generic solution (aka sth from CPAN) won't work.
22:06 mbalmer          Koha as is, is deeply MySQLified.
22:06 jcamins          mbalmer: why won't a generic solution work?
22:07 mbalmer          so it's not enough for other DBs to create a functional equivalent, it has to be functional equivalent and mimick MySQL (which is wrong on son many levels, of course)
22:08 jcamins          mbalmer: wouldn't it be better to work to actually eliminate MySQLisms?
22:08 mbalmer          jcamins, just look how "SHOW COLUMS FROM" in C4/ImportExport…. is being used.
22:08 mbalmer          It totally ecpects a MySQL result.
22:08 mbalmer          bad code...
22:09 jcamins          mbalmer: okay, so why don't we fix the code?
22:09 mbalmer          dunno.  we provide a solution.
22:10 jcamins          With the long term goal being stability, sustainability, and general good quality, that would seem preferable.
22:10 mbalmer          minimally invasive.
22:10 mbalmer          yeah, long term goals...
22:10 jcamins          Minimally invasive is good, but then we end up with things like SQL Helper.
22:11 mbalmer          did you actually look at what we proposed?
22:11 jcamins          mbalmer: I did.
22:11 mbalmer          and, you are against it?
22:12 jcamins          Not categorically, I just don't see enough benefit to justify writing our own special-purpose DBI layer.
22:12 mbalmer          you have stock in MySQL ? ;)
22:12 mbalmer          I see A LOT OF BENEFIT in this solution.
22:12 mbalmer          and it is not a DBI layer.
22:12 rangi            if its in capitals it must be true
22:13 mbalmer          comeon, you know exactly what this is about.  generating SQL fragment for the DB in use, not more, not less.
22:13 mbalmer          It is not even a layer of abstraction imo.
22:14 mbalmer          rangi, it's only louder, not truer ;)
22:14 jcamins          mbalmer: that's probably why I look at it and don't think it's a good idea while you look at it and think it is. Having read through the code, I would consider it a special-purpose abstraction layer.
22:15 oleonard         bag around?
22:15 bag              we are on it oleonard
22:15 mbalmer          jcamins, well we can wait forever to support postgresql.  here is a solution that works, that is clean and easy to understand, and which does the job right.
22:15 bag              :D
22:15 oleonard         Gotcha, thanx
22:16 bag              been watching it for a bit now ;)
22:16 bag              looks to be OOM...
22:16 mbalmer          and it does not need us to changed the DB stuff to much or apply a complete new paradigm.
22:17 jcamins          And if I'm abstracting things, I want something truly abstract.
22:17 jcamins          So when next-cool-RDMS comes along, *I* don't have to do the work to support it.
22:17 jcamins          mbalmer: provided the work doesn't break existing functionality, I don't suppose I really care that much.
22:17 mbalmer          it does not break existing stuff.  that was one of the prerequisites.
22:18 mbalmer          and it's really a baby-steps approach
22:18 jcamins          Oh, one other requirement from me: it has to be not horrible to maintain.
22:21 mbalmer          sorry, we can't accomplish that, since it has to be written in Perl ;P
22:21 mbalmer          jokes aside, it even comes with a unit test
22:23 mbalmer          any of the Marseille guys around?
22:24 bag              rangi I think I got you beat with weather today
22:24 eythian_bucklame it's 11.25pm there, so probably not so much
22:24 bag              @wunder 93109
22:24 rangi            highly likely
22:24 huginn           bag: The current temperature in K6LCM-Westside/Mesa, Santa Barbara, California is 20.5°C (3:23 PM PDT on March 21, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 38%. Dew Point: 6.0°C. Pressure: 30.00 in 1016 hPa (Falling).
22:24 rangi            @wunder nzwn
22:24 bag              ouch 20C
22:24 huginn           rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 17.0°C (11:00 AM NZDT on March 22, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 14.0°C. Pressure: 29.71 in 1006 hPa (Rising).
22:24 eythian_bucklame @wunder auckland,nz
22:24 huginn           eythian_bucklame: The current temperature in Auckland, New Zealand is 21.0°C (11:00 AM NZDT on March 22, 2012). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 78%. Dew Point: 17.0°C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Rising).
22:25 bag              oh eythian_bucklame with the close win
22:25 bag              .5 ahead
22:25 eythian_bucklame of course, we had subtropical type rains yesterday. Quite nice now though.
22:26 oleonard         mbalmer, I'm around for a moment
22:26 oleonard         ...not that I have anything to bring to your discussion
22:27 mbalmer          oleanard, just make sure noone never orders Andouillette in a restaurant, it's horrible...
22:27 mbalmer          that was a local marseille announcement only ;)
22:28 mbalmer          tomorrow I plan to work on the SIP server
22:28 * oleonard       Googles Andouillette, and finds the second result refer to it as "French Pig-Colon Sausage"
22:29 oleonard         Wow, it really sounds horrible!
22:29 mbalmer          yeah, it is.
22:29 mbalmer          I needed a strong Cognac after it ;)
22:30 mbalmer          been here, done that, tried andouillette ;)
22:30 bag              oh yeah oleonard - back up :)
22:36 oleonard         ?
22:36 Judit            hi
22:36 wahanui          hey, Judit
22:39 magnuse          hiya Judit
22:41 mbalmer          what you using as self checkout hardware? and what os?
22:42 mbalmer          what _are_ you using ...
22:43 rangi            so Koha uses DBI already right
22:43 rangi            and DBI has column_info
22:44 rangi            so thats show columns done for all RDBMS supported by DBI
22:44 rangi            has tables() too
22:44 rangi            for a list of table names
22:44 mbalmer          if only it was used that way in Koha
22:45 rangi            well how about instead of doing tableColumns
22:45 rangi            in DBQ
22:45 rangi            in 2 ways 1 for postgres and one for mysql
22:45 Judit            is there a list somewhere with the official supported browsesr for koha
22:45 rangi            just do it one way .. using DBI
22:46 oleonard         Judit, Any modern browser other than Internet Explorer (for the staff client)
22:46 mbalmer          as we said many times, we want a minimal invasive solution.
22:46 jcamins          Judit: there is not, but basically any recent browsers that aren't IE should work. :)
22:46 oleonard         Judit, And any modern browser for the OPAC
22:46 rangi            how is that more invasive?
22:46 mbalmer          we just change the SQL, nothing more.
22:46 rangi            we already have a DBI handle
22:46 rangi            you must be changing somehting to call tableColumns
22:47 mbalmer          and we just make sure the SQL works.  No other changes.
22:47 rangi            else whats the point
22:47 rangi            oh look you do
22:47 rangi            -            my $query = 'SHOW COLUMNS FROM ' . $table;
22:47 rangi            -            my $sth = $dbh->prepare($query);
22:47 rangi            +            my $dbq = C4::DBQ->dbq;
22:47 rangi            +            my $sth = $dbh->prepare($dbq->tableColumns($table));
22:47 rangi            now why not have tableColumns work in a Database independent manner, instead of just for 2 db's ?
22:48 Judit            thanks
22:48 mbalmer          it is DB independent.
22:48 rangi            only if your db is postgres or mysql
22:48 mbalmer          we just provide two implementations, more can be added.
22:48 rangi            look
22:48 rangi            if you just use column_info
22:49 * oleonard       heads for bed... luckily in this room it's not far!
22:49 rangi            you'd have 16
22:49 mbalmer          unrealistic.
22:49 mbalmer          Koha is MySQL only.
22:49 rangi            ok i give up
22:49 rangi            if you want to reimplement DBI.pm
22:49 rangi            go for it
22:50 rangi            im just pointing out a 3 line change would make your patch now be able to show columns for 16 databases not just 2
22:50 mbalmer          you don't see the real problem.
22:50 rangi            yes im stupid
22:50 rangi            youve told me that before
22:51 mbalmer          it makes no sense to discuss with you.  whenever you are ready to enter a technical discussion, please tell me.
22:51 rangi            *sigh*
22:52 rangi            i gave you code snippets .. but whatever im done
22:52 rangi            sekjal: you back again?
22:52 bag              heya sekjal
22:52 sekjal           rangi, bag:  yes, I'm back
22:53 sekjal           can't stay away from #koha!
22:53 bag              sekjal++
22:53 bag              awesome!
22:53 bag              it's better than drugs, MAN
22:53 magnuse          yeah man, like totally
22:54 mbalmer          rangi, even if the SQL statements are DB independent, Koha still expects MySQL results.  Which is wrong on so many levels.  E.g. it expects a column 'Field' as result of 'SHOW COLUMNS FROM'.  That is non-portable, to say the least.
22:55 rangi            i understand that
22:55 rangi            thats why i propose making it use DBI->table_info and DBI->column_info
22:55 mbalmer          so we made the PostgreSQL part return that information like it came from MySQL, as 'Field'
22:55 rangi            fwiw when i first wrote koha, it was written on postgres mysql support came later
22:56 rangi            and then the postgres ssupport got broken
22:56 rangi            but I use postgres at work on a daily basis, and I like it better than mysql
22:56 rangi            but i think that DBI has a routine to get column names that is db independent
22:56 mbalmer          rangi, yes, in the end that is what needs to be done.  DBQ just enables us to use PostgreSQL right now without to many changes.  In the end, the DB layer has to be reworked a bit.
22:56 rangi            and that we could just make your tableNames a wrapper to that
22:58 mbalmer          stephane and I wanted to make the bare minimum to make it DB indepdendent.  of course you are right that in the end proper DBI usage is what we want.
22:59 * rangi          goes to get coffee
22:59 mbalmer          In the long term, C4::DBQ has no business in Koha.  It is really a transition vehicle, imo.
22:59 * sekjal         is catching up... so this is all in regards to the work for bug 7365?
22:59 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7365 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Needs Signoff , Koha uses MySQL
23:00 magnuse          mbalmer: would "proper DBI usage" be much harder to implement than C4::DBQ?
23:00 mbalmer          sekjal, yes. and also look at the wiki page.
23:00 mbalmer          magnuse, we think yes.
23:01 mbalmer          we really wanted to be minimally invasive.  just do the very basic changes needed.
23:01 sekjal           mbalmer:  reading...
23:02 mbalmer          it's incomplete, of course.
23:04 mbalmer          even if we make the database layer DB independent, the upper layers of Koha still often expect MySQL results, that is part of the problem (or fun…)
23:05 sekjal           I'm seeing 8 C4 modules that have some kind of "show columns from" call
23:05 sekjal           most of them are on-offs, except ImportExportFramework.pm
23:05 rangi            they all seem to want an array of column names
23:06 rangi            so if tableNames used column_info to do that .. could junk all of those ?
23:06 * jcamins        has found a kitchen scale. :D
23:06 rangi            baking jcamins ?
23:06 jcamins          Apparently there are kitchen scales that support baker's percentages directly!
23:07 Judit            u
23:07 Judit            can i have one
23:07 Judit            please
23:07 cjh              bakers percentages?
23:07 jcamins          rangi: not until we've moved, but the kitchen scale isn't moving with us, so I need a new one.
23:07 * cjh            runs off to google
23:07 rangi            ahhh
23:07 mbalmer          even worse, in one place DESCRIBE is used, discarding all results, then SHOW COLUMNS FROM.  Some of the SQL code is really funky.
23:07 jcamins          mbalmer: those are bugs. They need fixing, regardless of postgres/mysql use.
23:07 mbalmer          ack.
23:08 mbalmer          and it's part of our patch, btw.
23:08 jcamins          cjh: baker's percentages are awesome. Much easier than anything else.
23:08 cjh              jcamins: if im reading this right it uses the quantity of flour as the base unit and then gives everything else relatively?
23:08 sekjal           oh, nix that, 7 C4 modules... C4/Letters.pm has that area commented out
23:09 mbalmer          so.  midnight here, need to catch some zzz .  cu tomorrow.
23:09 sekjal           goodnight, mbalmer
23:09 mbalmer          gn8 all!
23:09 sekjal           oh, actually, 6... Auth_with_ldap uses that in it's docs, not the code
23:10 cjh              bakers units make scaling the recipe easy :o
23:10 cjh              and by units, i mean percentages.
23:10 jcamins          cjh: right.
23:12 jcamins          cjh: and given that I bake... a lot... when I'm baking, that's useful.
23:12 eythian_bucklame just so long as the flours isn't measured in furlongs, or whatever you people use :)
23:12 eythian_bucklame *flour
23:12 cjh              heh
23:12 Judit            i hate the cup
23:12 Judit            so unclear
23:12 cjh              but guessing is fun :p
23:12 Judit            and there is australian cup and US cup
23:13 jcamins          Judit: exactly!
23:13 Judit            gram is the only sensible way
23:13 Judit            unfortunately most of the population thinks otherwise
23:13 eythian_bucklame and the liquid cup, and the fluffy cup, and the Elbonian cup...
23:13 jcamins          Judit: and with my new kitchen scale, I will be able to use it!
23:13 eythian_bucklame and the gold cup
23:14 jcamins          (the gram, that is)
23:15 Judit            eythian :D
23:15 jcamins          Kitchen scale ordered.
23:15 Judit            which one?
23:15 wahanui          it has been said that which one is it
23:15 Judit            the baker percentage scale?
23:15 jcamins          http://www.amazon.com/My-Weigh-KD-8000-Weighing-Tabletop/dp/B001NE0FU2
23:15 jcamins          Yup.
23:16 Judit            ah
23:21 * jcamins        taps his foot impatiently waiting for his new scale to arrive.
23:21 jcamins          It'll just be another week or so.
23:21 Judit            :)
23:22 Judit            until then, you can start collecting recipes
23:22 jcamins          Judit: yay!
23:23 Judit            i have just amde a rosemary quince cake th eother day
23:23 jcamins          Rosemary quince cake?
23:23 jcamins          That sounds delicious.
23:23 Judit            very interesting
23:23 Judit            and delicious
23:24 jcamins          Like this: http://staging.leapdesign.com:8047/food-health/quince-rosemary-frangipane-cake-with-lightly-whipped-cream-1222/ ?
23:25 jcamins          Hm. Doing that without a spring form pan would be rather difficult.
23:25 Judit            it is not
23:25 Judit            and vanilla is not for quince
23:26 jcamins          Judit: no? I'd think it'd stick something awful.
23:27 Judit            well i used one of those silicon "papers"
23:27 Judit            and the butter and almond makes it pretty oily too
23:27 jcamins          Ah, that makes sense.
23:28 Judit            aand, april is chestnut picking month here: quince and chestnut soup…..
23:29 jcamins          Mmm.
23:30 * magnuse        finally got around to writing the README for his little project at https://github.com/MagnusEnger/semantikoha
23:33 jcamins          Woohoo!
23:33 jcamins          magnuse++
23:34 magnuse          yay :-)
23:39 rangi            magnuse++
23:39 sekjal           magnuse++  this looks like something I'd like to play with
23:39 magnuse          sekjal: feel free ;-)
23:40 sekjal           I want to compile information about my library objects from multiple sources, since some places do some things better than others
23:41 magnuse          sekjal: then linked data/RDF is your friend
23:43 magnuse          oops, my nightly cronjobs are kicking in - time to bid you all a good night!
23:54 sekjal           wow, lots of t/db_dependent failures on current master
23:54 rangi            you have the sample db installed ?
23:55 rangi            ouch
23:55 rangi            yeah
23:55 rangi            7310
23:55 rangi            bug 7310
23:55 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7310 enhancement, P3, ---, m.de.rooy, Pushed to Master , Improving permissions on lists (virtual shelves)
23:55 rangi            http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/lastCompletedBuild/testReport/
23:56 jcamins          Ouch!
23:57 jcamins          I wonder why... when I signed off, all the tests passed.
23:57 jcamins          Granted, that was a month ago.
23:57 rangi            it could be db on jenkins
23:57 sekjal           rangi:  no, not running sample db... using wizzyrea's
23:58 rangi            http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/lastCompletedBuild/testReport/%28root%29/t_db_dependent_VirtualShelves_t/failed_to_add_to_list_when_we_should__73_/
23:58 sekjal           I've fixed the Acquistions error.. patch is on bug 5347
23:58 huginn           04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5347 enhancement, P2, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , late order management
23:59 jcamins          All tests in virtualshelves.t pass for me.
23:59 rangi            ill check the db on jenkins
23:59 rangi            after i eat my sushi