Time  Nick            Message
23:50 huginn          jcamins_away: The operation succeeded.
23:50 jcamins_away    @later tell sekjal Two bugs for QA- 6997 and 7216. Both are pretty simple.
21:59 eythian         catch you later
21:59 eythian         heh yeah :)
21:59 liw             but that's for next year, this is thursday evening and it's bedtime -- night! :)
21:59 liw             in fact, there should possibly be one talk for people interested in using the packages, and a separate workshop for people interested in improving the packages
21:58 eythian         I probably should
21:58 eythian         yeah. I need to sit down in a pub with mtj at some point and teach him how they all work
21:58 liw             indeed, you should give a talk about the koha packages
21:58 liw             well, if someone gives, but I'm happy to
21:58 liw             if I give a debian packaging tutorial at kohacon, you can get lots of helpers with the packages :)
21:57 eythian         in between security package updates and migrations :)
21:57 liw             cool. thanks!
21:57 eythian         sounds like good friday afternoon work
21:57 eythian         I'll do that then, when I work out their new system
21:57 eythian         OK
21:57 liw             none seem to need updates, but I think I'd like to see adoption uploads anyway, so they get removed from my list of packages
21:56 liw             ah, sorry, misunderstood the nagging sentence
21:55 eythian         you need to keep nagging me :) that said, I think they are all reownered in the Perl staging area. I'll have to see if any need updates.
21:53 liw             whom do you need to nag?
21:52 eythian         Not so much yet. Too much travel, too much work :) keep nagging though, it'll happen. Maybe today even, if things don't end up being too busy.
21:51 liw             eythian, any progress on getting the perl cpan packages related to koha that are still under my name in Debian adopted?
21:50 eythian         liw: I am
21:50 liw             eythian, hi, are you awake?
21:48 libsysguy       you should be aware of a rebase error
21:47 libsysguy       anybody on that is checking out my hourly branch?
21:44 huginn          New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6151] IndependantBranches and HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn can prevent items from being checked in <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6151>
21:44 wizzyrea        oh zowie
21:44 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6151 major, PATCH-Sent, ---, jonathan.druart, ASSIGNED , IndependantBranches and HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn can prevent items from being checked in
21:39 sekjal          anyone feel like doing so a very long circulation-based test plan?  bug 6151
21:39 sekjal          okay, that patch is ready
21:35 * wizzyrea      applauds
21:35 * wizzyrea      giggles
21:34 * oleonard      tried to draw it out this time
21:34 wizzyrea        :)
21:34 oleonard        Farewell #koha, until we meet again.
21:34 wizzyrea        GOOD BYE, oleonard
21:34 oleonard        I shall not be able to assist you in this quest wizzyrea, for I must depart.
21:31 wizzyrea        we're getting lots of holds with no biblionumber left over when items are deleted
21:30 oleonard        It rings a vague indistinct bell
21:30 wizzyrea        does this ring a bell for anybody?
21:30 wizzyrea        delete a bib + items
21:30 wizzyrea        I guess there's no bug for what happens when you delete a bib that still has items with reserves on them
21:15 cait            night all
21:05 jcamins_away    They are indeed.
21:04 chris_n         arn't they all :)
21:04 huginn          jcamins_away: Quote #167: "<sekjal> yes, major project. very important" (added by chris_n at 07:58 PM, November 18, 2011)
21:04 jcamins_away    @quote get 167
21:04 chris_n         your always on top of it
21:04 chris_n         right wahanui, right
21:03 wahanui         i already had it that way, chris_n.
21:03 huginn          chris_n: The operation succeeded.  Quote #168 added.
21:03 chris_n         @quote add gmcharlt: #koha is ALL the time
20:44 huginn          wizzyrea: Quote #23: "<gmcharlt> /msg huginn register nick password" (added by wizzyrea_ at 04:25 PM, August 06, 2009)
20:44 wizzyrea        @quote get 23
20:44 wizzyrea        humbug.
20:44 huginn          wizzyrea: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
20:44 wizzyrea        @quote add gmcharlt: #koha is ALL the time
20:43 gmcharlt        #koha is ALL the time
20:39 jcamins_away    #koha doesn't care the time, apparently.
20:36 cait            in the darkness?
20:36 oleonard        Hey, didn't you hear #koha tell you guys to go play outside for a change?
20:34 sekjal          agreed
20:33 cait            I think adding one for circulaton will probably be good
20:33 sekjal          nothing for issues, renewals and returns
20:33 sekjal          yeah, so I guess just that subroutine
20:33 sekjal          it's a different color in my terminal, and is blending in with other lines
20:33 cait            hm yes, but only for part of it? I guess
20:33 sekjal          ah ha! there it is
20:32 cait            Circulation_barcodedecode.t
20:32 cait            hm I see
20:30 sekjal          it might be me and this headcold, but I can't see it if we've got it
20:29 cait            thought we caught all at kohacon
20:29 * cait          wonders
20:28 cait            there is nothing for circ?
20:28 sekjal          where would I put the unit test for a new C4/Circ subroutine
20:27 sekjal          rangi:  there doesn't seem to be a t/Circulation.t or t/db_dependent/Circulation.t
20:27 cait            still a good deed!
20:27 cait            ah
20:26 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7206 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , delete links in basket could use design work
20:26 oleonard        Actually Bug 7206, but I was trying a js menu
20:26 cait            or only all the js errors?
20:25 cait            are you trying to fix the minus?
20:25 cait            uh
20:24 oleonard        Ha, whatever I just did to the js on basket.pl, now it wants to automatically delete the order on reload :P
20:16 huginn          JesseM: The current temperature in Brewer Stratford Marina, Stratford, Connecticut is 8.9�C (3:14 PM EST on December 01, 2011). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 24%. Dew Point: -11.0�C. Windchill: 5.0�C. Pressure: 30.13 in 1020.2 hPa (Steady).
20:16 JesseM          @wunder 06614
20:06 jcamins_away    Thanks.
20:05 rangi           will do
20:05 jcamins_away    rangi: any chance you could add me to the CC list?
20:05 jcamins_away    Useful looking patch, though.
20:04 * rangi         will leave it for the smart ppl to check
20:03 * jcamins_away  isn't at home, so can't check.
20:03 jcamins_away    Because if it's not MARC21-only, I'd fail it until some sort of handling for UNIMARC defaults is provided.
20:02 cait            oh good point
20:02 jcamins_away    Hmmm... is that a MARC21-only block?
20:01 cait            if it works like that?
20:01 cait            sounds good to me
20:01 cait            hm
20:00 rangi           i dont know enuff MARC voodooo to know if thats correct
20:00 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7072 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, fcapovilla, NEW , Use MARCAuthorityControlField008 to generate default 008 fields in AddAuthority
20:00 rangi           bug 7072
19:53 cait            I would file a new bug
19:53 cait            i don't think there is one for your problem yet
19:53 cait            maximep: which bug?
19:50 nengard         all
19:50 nengard         thanks al
19:50 nengard         back to training
19:45 maximep         arg, can't find the bug
19:44 nengard         i found that one
19:44 nengard         yeah
19:43 huginn          04Bug 3069: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Koha Z39.50 client process discussion
19:43 cait            http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3069
19:43 wahanui         searching is not working
19:43 cait            searching..
19:43 nengard         okay do you know which it is ? :) I'm gonna search for it
19:43 cait            yes
19:43 nengard         so the reservoir gets filled up with z search results?
19:43 jcamins_away    nengard: there's an open bug on that.
19:43 cait            maximep: right
19:42 cait            an old one
19:42 maximep         ok. iirc there's a bug for translation tool problems, right?
19:42 jcamins_away    nengard: yup.
19:42 cait            there is a bug explaining that
19:42 cait            yes
19:42 cait            it imports I think the first 10 of each search you do
19:42 nengard         what are these? the search results of our z searches?
19:42 cait            yep
19:42 nengard         it looks like the reservoir is getting filled with records imported using z39.50
19:42 cait            yep, the script extracting the strings is probably mssing it
19:42 nengard         got a reservior question in training
19:42 maximep         translate install doesn't catch it
19:41 maximep         but can't do it manually either
19:41 maximep         ok
19:41 cait            maximep: little bug in the tool getting the strings for translation
19:41 maximep         yeah, that's the problem
19:41 cait            maximep: I see it, it's not translated for me either, perhaps because it's not part of a system preference
19:39 oleonard        The file in question is intranet-tmpl/prog/fr-FR/modules/admin/preferences/enhanced_content.pref
19:39 cait            have yo utried only searching for NOTE?
19:39 maximep         translate update didn't seem to catch it either
19:39 maximep         nope
19:39 cait            it's not in the po file?
19:38 maximep         just can't translate it
19:38 maximep         I know what it is and what it does
19:38 cait            check the enhanced content pref page
19:38 cait            you can only have one source for cover images
19:38 cait            iirc
19:38 cait            it's not in a pref, somewhere above or beyond I think
19:37 cait            it refers to covers
19:37 cait            ah
19:36 maximep         didn't try doing a translate update
19:36 maximep         can't find it in fr-FR at least
19:36 maximep         tried msgid "enhanced_content.pref## <strong>NOTE"
19:36 oleonard        maximep: Was that not picked up for translation by the translation tool?
19:35 maximep         in 3.6
19:34 maximep         I can't find how to translate the text "NOTE: you can only choose one source" in the system preferences. Anyone did it ?
19:28 wizzyrea        yw, gl
19:20 tcohen          thanks everyone
19:19 tcohen          and let itemtypes to mean circulation rule applying
19:19 tcohen          I'll move my item-types/kind of material to CCODE (or whatever I choose to use)
19:18 wizzyrea        all good, we have batch edit now ^.^
19:17 tcohen          just got it wrong for a long time...
19:17 wizzyrea        also is to say: koha doesn't need any modification to work the way you want it to, your data does . ;)
19:17 tcohen          wizzyrea: i'm just in fear LOL
19:17 wizzyrea        sense*
19:17 wizzyrea        make senes?
19:17 wizzyrea        but all are arbitrary - you can name them however you want
19:16 wizzyrea        ^^
19:16 cait            and locations and collections do not
19:16 wizzyrea        the point is - itypes go with the circ rules
19:16 cait            itemtype: short loan > collection dvd
19:16 cait            or
19:16 wizzyrea        DVD = gets longer loan period
19:15 wizzyrea        = short loan period
19:15 wizzyrea        example: DVD - New Release
19:15 cait            than perhaps you might want to consider having item types for kinds of circ rules
19:15 wizzyrea        you can make different itypes for each type of dvd that circs in a different way
19:14 tcohen          and different DVD's have different circ rules too!!
19:14 wizzyrea        *nod*
19:14 sekjal          if they loan differently, then they'll need different item types
19:14 tcohen          sekjal: of course :-D
19:14 rangi           maximep: this is a FAQ almost, we should write it up
19:14 tcohen          hi wizzyrea
19:14 sekjal          that is, to DVDs loan differently than books?
19:14 wizzyrea        itypes are more like "rule types"
19:14 sekjal          tcohen: do the two things have different circulation behaviours?
19:14 maximep         cait and rangi make a good support duo... completing each other phrases :p
19:13 wizzyrea        we use itypes in exactly the way they are describing
19:13 wizzyrea        I'd use ccode for that
19:13 tcohen          i've been using itemtypes to express that
19:13 tcohen          at item level i'd like to have them listed as DVD and book accordingly
19:13 jcamins_away    listening_to_rangi++
19:12 tcohen          I have a record, that contains a DVD and a book
19:12 cait            and... listen to rangi
19:12 cait            you have to find out what you want to display at item level and choose the fields accordingly
19:12 rangi           its just that itemtype is used to control circ rules
19:12 rangi           the same with itemtype
19:12 cait            what he says
19:12 rangi           it can be filled with whatever you want
19:11 tcohen          right?
19:11 tcohen          rangi: collectioncode should be filled with things like 'book', 'magazine', etc
19:09 jcamins_away    Thanks!
19:09 cait            jcamins_away: thx, reading now
19:09 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7284 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, NEW , Authority matching algorithm improvements
19:09 jcamins_away    cait: bug 7284
19:08 cait            have itemtypes like: not for loan, 4 weeks, short loan, overnight only
19:08 rangi           lol
19:08 cait            hehe
19:08 cait            what rangi says
19:08 rangi           what cait said
19:08 cait            you can put that into collections
19:08 rangi           and use the collectioncode for books
19:08 cait            it does not have to be the type of the item
19:08 cait            I think most people misjudge itemtypes
19:08 rangi           use itemtypes
19:08 huginn          rangi: Quote #123: "rangi: #thingsihavelearnt if there is a mad scheme a library somewhere will be doing it ... except madder" (added by wizzyrea at 09:20 PM, March 30, 2011)
19:08 cait            itemtypes
19:08 rangi           @quote get 123
19:07 tcohen          but having all them listed as 'books' (itemtype)
19:07 cait            um
19:07 tcohen          have a circulation rule for each of them
19:07 tcohen          you have three items
19:07 cait            can you give an example?
19:07 cait            like how?
19:07 cait            for each item on your record
19:07 tcohen          i mean, not item type-based but configurable per item
19:07 cait            you can use different itemtypes
19:06 tcohen          is there any work on having idfferent type of circulation rules for different items on a record?
18:57 cait            fredericd++ semarie++
18:57 cait            yep
18:56 rangi           semarie++
18:56 rangi           fredericd++
18:19 huginn          New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 7282] invalid language selection <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7282>
18:17 tcohen          with koha/solr ?
18:17 tcohen          is there any demo site
18:16 tcohen          hi #koha
18:15 rangi           wb cait
18:12 cait            back
17:56 magnuse         sekjal: http://manual.koha-community.org/3.6/en/circfaq.html#smsnoticefaq "Some common options in the US (that have Perl drivers) are..."
17:56 wizzyrea        I just like to say goodbye is all ;)
17:56 trea            lol
17:55 wizzyrea        noooo
17:55 oleonard        wizzyrea: Next time I'll way for your goodbye. If I don't receive it I'll just stay at work.
17:55 magnuse         ah
17:54 sekjal          magnuse:  I believe list of SMS::Send::* modules are in the Koha manual somewhere
17:54 * wizzyrea      looks at oleonard
17:54 rangi           big mobile phone users/producers
17:54 wizzyrea        not like some OTHER people I know who are so fast on the exit button you can't ever catch them
17:53 rangi           yup
17:53 magnuse         tw = taiwan? seems to be a lot of those...
17:53 oleonard        s'okay wizzyrea, she'll be back
17:53 rangi           hmm yeah more than when i last looked
17:52 wizzyrea        by--- bother!
17:52 kf              bye all
17:52 kf              ok, time to leave
17:52 magnuse         sunno why i wasn't getting more then 2 at first...
17:51 magnuse         oh wait, this gave a number of hits: http://search.cpan.org/search?m=all&q=SMS%3A%3ASend&s=1
17:51 kf              I think one is in koha of those, somewhere?
17:50 magnuse         ah
17:50 rangi           not a lot
17:50 rangi           thats about how many exist
17:50 magnuse         huh, how do i figure out what SMS::Send::* modules exist? searching CPAN gives very few results...
17:44 rangi           cya paul_p
17:43 paul_p          time to go back home. bye & see you tomorrow !
17:43 paul_p          rangi, & trea I think we've made some improvements. trea, drop a mail to christophe.croullebois at biblibre.com, he could tell you
17:34 rangi           for 7282 should the regexp be $lang =~ s/[^a-zA-Z_-]*//g;  (with the g?)
17:32 rangi           fredericd: are you about?
17:31 rangi           i think the sub could be updated to check a few more things
17:30 trea            okay, i see the sub now. thanks for pointing that out.
17:27 rangi           if you want to check
17:27 rangi           C4::Items DelItemCheck
17:26 trea            thanks for checking
17:26 trea            yes, i believe so
17:26 rangi           does that help?
17:25 rangi           that wont stop it
17:25 rangi           but if you have reserve/hold that isnt waiting, but is itemlevel
17:25 trea            rangi++
17:25 rangi           and if it has waiting reserve
17:25 rangi           which checks onloan
17:24 rangi           it calls DelItemCheck
17:22 rangi           ill look
17:22 trea            hope springs eternal, as they say
17:22 oleonard        So optimistic!
17:22 trea            s/dos/does
17:21 trea            does batch item deletion check for holds and fines? i'm guessing it probably dos.
17:21 trea            thanks rangi
17:20 rangi           trea: 1000
17:19 trea            it looks like past a certain point it simply says "there's too many to display"
17:19 trea            anybody know what the upper limit to display items to delete in the batch item deletion tool?
17:18 jcamins         (at least, not one that's marked as required) Right, paul_p?
17:16 jcamins         kf: I don't think you can skip an update.
17:15 sekjal          I think I've got too low of blood sugar right now to fully comprehend the recommendation, the patch, and all the details. I shall eat now
17:15 paul_p          (and I'm OK to wait for your/marcel QA validation)
17:14 kf              paul_p: seeing the updates later on is nice - I only don't want to encourage people doing stupid thigns - like skipping updates they don't understand
17:14 paul_p          sekjal, we've tested it a lot. We use this mechanism in production for our customers, chris_n signed it off. I don't feel we're hurrying
17:14 huginn          New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 7282] invalid language selection <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7282>
17:14 kf              paul_p: I can agree on those 2 points
17:13 paul_p          It also ease managing 2 versions, as I can push something that will be only in 3.8 without causing any trouble to 3.6 update & customers
17:13 * sekjal        hates rushing anything
17:13 sekjal          I repeat my recommendation of waiting until 3.8 to deploy this, in order to give us adequate time to test
17:12 jcamins         paul_p: a good point.
17:12 paul_p          jcamins, right: the new system is ++ for devs. It has also some additional pluses, like being able to see the result of an updatedatabase at anytime. For support, it's a big + !
17:12 magnuse         kf++
17:12 sekjal          something that's introducing a lot of overhead and instability for very little gain
17:12 jcamins         sekjal: agreed.
17:11 sekjal          jcamins:  I think I need to reread the proposal... it seems like we're getting off track from that, and into an overly-complex change
17:10 jcamins         Heh.
17:10 wahanui         3.6 is more relevant
17:10 jcamins         3.6?
17:10 jcamins         Developers don't have to write any additional code (compared to now) to make a database change, and testers have a much simpler time of applying database updates they're testing, and checking for interactions.
17:10 jcamins         sekjal: well, I would think that paul_p's original proposal would simplify it.
17:10 kf              hm 3.6 I mean
17:10 wahanui         it has been said that 3.4 is still on schedule
17:10 kf              and 3.4?
17:10 kf              so we can get bug fixes into master again?
17:09 kf              can we concentrate on getting something that works and will not break things in?
17:09 kf              hi rangi
17:08 magnuse         ata marie rangi
17:08 rhcl_asm        meeting over, I'm outta here
17:07 sekjal          sup, rangi
17:07 rhcl_asm        </#MPLD>
17:07 sekjal          is such simplification even possible?
17:07 rangi           sup peeps
17:07 kf              nope
17:07 jcamins         I feel like this is not leading to a net simplification of the development and testing process.
17:06 sekjal          we so need to get the Task Scheduler working through the staff client again....
17:06 sekjal          tie that in with some other automatic backup code
17:05 wizzyrea        I guess the install already does that
17:05 wizzyrea        the button would probably also put the catalog in maintenance mode
17:05 wizzyrea        ^^ I like that idea
17:05 sekjal          and perhaps an additional button could be added "backup DB before applying"
17:05 sekjal          description method would let us preview changes before committing
17:04 wizzyrea        lots of this stuff can be added
17:04 wizzyrea        do and iterate :)
17:04 sekjal          s/so/also/
17:04 sekjal          we could so check if the update is already applied (and skip if so)
17:04 wizzyrea        right
17:03 sekjal          but this API would let us auto upgrade (if code version > db version) AND auto downgrade (if code version < db version)
17:03 wizzyrea        with a link
17:03 wizzyrea        that's just like MS does with windows updates, they always reference the KB article
17:03 sekjal          "for more info, see bug xxxx"
17:03 sekjal          that could be by convention
17:02 wizzyrea        or at least a link to the bug
17:01 sekjal          so, each database update must include a check method (is this even necessary), a do method (like we have), and undo (revert the change) and a description (display a textual summary of what this is set to accomplish)
17:01 sekjal          add a fourth API call to databaseupdate:  DESCRIPTION
17:00 * kf            goes to hide
17:00 wahanui         system preference is ReservesMaxPickUpDelay
17:00 kf              system preference!
17:00 * wizzyrea      knows that's more work
17:00 sekjal          seeing the updates before upgrading (optionally) is a good feature
17:00 chris_n         ok, lunch for real this time :)
16:59 wizzyrea        those that are curious can see what the changes will be, those that don't care can just click through
16:59 chris_n         wizzyrea++
16:59 wizzyrea        well a choice to "apply all" by default, and a "see details" (like osx does) would be good
16:59 jcamins         If you hack the code to get around the webinstaller, that's your funeral.
16:59 jcamins         You enter your password, and then you wait.
16:58 paul_p          maybe we could do that is DEBUG=0, and let the user choose if DEBUG=1
16:58 sekjal          I wouldn't want that to change
16:58 * jcamins       doesn't see how there's a change between the existing system and that proposal.
16:58 wizzyrea        :D
16:58 paul_p          chris_n, may be a good idea.
16:58 sekjal          I like that Koha automatically applies all the applicable updates to the DB
16:58 chris_n         with that note, I'm off to lunch with my 5yr old
16:58 chris_n         that may avoid upgrade confusion
16:58 chris_n         paul_p: perhaps we should auto apply the updates and then display what updates were applied
16:57 sekjal          mmm, lunch
16:57 * chris_n       also likes lunch
16:56 * wizzyrea      whispers sweet nothings into wahanui's ear
16:55 wizzyrea        hm no
16:55 wahanui         chris_n is release maintainer for 3.2, 3.4, and 3.6. or <reply> I LIKE GIT
16:55 wizzyrea        chris_n?
16:55 wahanui         okay, wizzyrea.
16:55 wizzyrea        chris_n is also <reply> I LIKE GIT
16:55 wahanui         I LIKE SPACE AND MY WIFE
16:55 wizzyrea        natec?
16:55 wahanui         chris_n is probably release maintainer for 3.2, 3.4, and 3.6.
16:55 jcamins         chris_n?
16:55 wizzyrea        natec
16:55 jcamins         chris_n is <reply> I LIKE GIT!
16:55 wahanui         I LIKE ALMONDS! HAVE SOME NUTS!
16:55 wizzyrea        rangi?
16:55 wahanui         I LOVE BASEBALL AND BREAKFAST BURRITOS
16:55 wizzyrea        bg?
16:55 wahanui         chris_n: excuse me?
16:55 chris_n         wahanui: I LIKE GIT!
16:54 wahanui         I LIKE SCIENCE!
16:54 jcamins         wizzyrea?
16:54 wahanui         I LIKE SCIENCE!
16:54 chris_n         heya wizzyrea
16:54 wizzyrea        git or miss. awesome.
16:54 chris_n         lol
16:54 jcamins         :D
16:54 sekjal          jcamins: ::groan::
16:53 sekjal          because I did it naively
16:53 chris_n         ie before git am or git rebase, we backup
16:53 * jcamins       thinks that might be git-or-miss.
16:53 sekjal          immediately ate up all the RAM
16:53 sekjal          tried at my previous institution
16:53 chris_n         a git hook
16:53 sekjal          I've been interested in doing that for a while
16:53 chris_n         yup
16:53 sekjal          git-based backups
16:53 chris_n         maybe we should just integrate koha and git :-)
16:52 chris_n         so 1) backup db 2) apply update 3)things are screwed up 4) restore backup 5)git revert 6) everyone's happy
16:52 sekjal          chris_n:  yes, backups++
16:51 kf              andit can work too
16:51 chris_n         sekjal: hence my statement about backing up first
16:51 kf              so I can understand why someone wants it
16:51 kf              paul_p: we started our first koha libraries on a version of master too - because of some sip things we needed, thoroughly tested it before that and updated to stable later
16:51 sekjal          but if you're reverting to an earlier code state, you DB state must match
16:51 jcamins         I mean, undo would be really cool, but something to consider in the future.
16:51 chris_n         been there, done that
16:51 chris_n         with a db backup and git, undo is very possible
16:51 sekjal          it can be lossy
16:51 sekjal          paul_p:  sometimes
16:51 jcamins         Agreed.
16:51 paul_p          and I think it's almost impossible to have an undo sometimes.
16:51 chris_n         I think an undo feature would involve backup up the db prior to application
16:50 paul_p          jcamins, no.
16:50 jcamins         If so, I missed that.
16:50 jcamins         paul_p: did you propose an undo feature?
16:50 jcamins         I think.
16:50 paul_p          (i'm speaking as BibLibre here : we're thinking of proposing to a few of our libraries to run master. But only wisely choosen ones)
16:50 chris_n         git is my "undo"
16:50 jcamins         kf: no undo button.
16:50 chris_n         but that's because /me is here to "fix it" when it breaks
16:50 sekjal          CHECK, DO, and UNDO
16:50 kf              yeah, but having an undo button... means inviting it
16:50 sekjal          my proposal for updating updatedatabase was to introduce a three-command API
16:49 paul_p          chris_n++
16:49 chris_n         and assume the liability involved
16:49 paul_p          *if* they know what they're running & are ready to face some problems sometimes
16:49 chris_n         paul_p: we basically run master
16:49 jcamins         chris_n: I'd prefer not to speculate.
16:49 paul_p          my feeling is that having a few/some libraries should/could running master is good.
16:49 * chris_n       wonders who would want to "undo" a patch sequence on a production box?
16:48 sekjal          kf: no offense taken
16:48 chris_n         not to production
16:48 kf              sekjal: I didn#t want to offend you - it's only a personal opinion
16:48 chris_n         undo is only relevant to development
16:48 jcamins         Undo is not included in paul_p's proposal.
16:48 sekjal          kf: we at ByWater looking at changing that particular policy; meeting is schedule for Monday
16:48 kf              which means making it harder to submit database changes
16:48 jcamins         kf: I agree with you about running Master.
16:48 kf              it needs to be a separate sql or pl file
16:48 paul_p          jcamins, yes, she means that
16:48 chris_n         kf: paul_p has cleared up the question
16:48 jcamins         This change doesn't make it easier or harder to run master.
16:48 kf              I think if we want to have an undo option
16:47 jcamins         kf: oh, you mean running Master?
16:47 paul_p          kf, agreed
16:47 jcamins         kf: we want people to test multiple patches, and spot problems *before* something's been pushed to Master.
16:47 kf              paul_p: I know, but I am not sure it's a good plan
16:47 jcamins         sekjal: and when I say "disincentive" I mean "I, at least, ignore all changes that might conflict, instead letting them bitrot, because I don't have the time nor ability to handle any sort of complex testing."
16:47 * chris_n       runs from master every time he can get away with it ;-)
16:46 sekjal          kf: its certainly a lot of work
16:46 paul_p          kf, all bywater customers run master...
16:46 kf              not sure we should make that easier
16:46 * chris_n       thinks this move is one step to a full solution
16:46 kf              in my opinion
16:46 sekjal          so, the problem we're trying to solve is encouraging folks to test two patches in conjunction?
16:46 paul_p          (plus, the more I think of it, the more I think running master is a perillious idea...)
16:46 kf              sekjal: running from master is dangerous
16:46 chris_n         right
16:46 paul_p          right
16:46 paul_p          jcamins++
16:46 sekjal          okay, so it looks like I'm thinking about problems that are outside the scope of this proposed change
16:45 jcamins         sekjal: that's no different from the situation now.
16:45 jcamins         sekjal: the problem we're trying to solve is that with updatedatabase working as it does, there's a disincentive to testing the interaction of two patches.
16:45 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6328 major, PATCH-Sent, ---, paul.poulain, ASSIGNED , Fine in days does not work
16:45 sekjal          like the fix for bug 6328
16:45 sekjal          then we don't have a way to undo that change
16:45 sekjal          paul_p:  if master has introduced a complex database change that has not been committed to stable
16:44 paul_p          sekjal, why ? (the hard time)
16:44 sekjal          we also have a hard time switching from master to stable once we're down the release cycle a ways
16:44 paul_p          sekjal, nothing new here. It's already the case.
16:44 chris_n         no rollback
16:44 sekjal          problems I see:  we cannot 'downgrade' a database as we can downgrade code
16:43 paul_p          so, he could see what has been made
16:43 paul_p          He could just have the option to "apply" (all updates)
16:43 chris_n         not a "average user" problem
16:43 paul_p          chris_n, could be an improvement, you're right. But doing this silently seems a bad idea.
16:43 chris_n         sekjal: I "think" it is really a development problem
16:42 chris_n         paul_p: the non-linear application is really for devs (which includes "in-house" mods), right?
16:42 sekjal          maybe I'm being dense or forgetful (wouldn't be the first time).  but what problems are we looking to solve with the change in updatedatabase method?
16:42 chris_n         and not even open the door for potential "skips"
16:42 jcamins         paul_p: I knew you were away *somewhere*.
16:42 chris_n         so why wouldn't we just apply all db changes automagically during an upgrade?
16:42 jcamins         paul_p: in other words, the only way to avoid installing updates would be to modify the code?
16:42 paul_p          jcamins, I had a meeting this morning, not a training
16:41 paul_p          so, in fact, no real choice...
16:41 paul_p          chris_n, yep, except he will be switched back to this page (from mainpage.pl) everytime he tries to "fake" Koha
16:41 chris_n         for whatever insane reason
16:41 chris_n         so it is possible that someone could "choose" not to run db update X?
16:41 jcamins         paul_p: I thought you said yesterday you were training today.
16:40 paul_p          chris_n, yep
16:40 chris_n         paul_p: will someone doing a normal release upgrade have the option of applying db updates via the admin/updatedatabase.pl interface
16:40 paul_p          (frenchism suspected)
16:40 paul_p          jcamins, don't play your wahanui !!!
16:39 jcamins         Or not.
16:39 paul_p          chris_n, yes ?
16:39 jcamins         chris_n: he's training a library, I think.
16:39 chris_n         paul_p about?
16:38 chris_n         we could always "enforce"  the application of "community-wide" changes....
16:38 kf              sorry, but i am worried about this :(
16:37 kf              well, if you tell me you have done local changes, I will tell you: you are not runnign koha, I can't help.
16:37 chris_n         and so must be accounted for
16:36 chris_n         I think the probability of that happening is small, but real
16:36 kf              so.
16:36 kf              ...
16:36 kf              but, a lot of people seemed to like it
16:36 kf              and that's where I think this is idea is not good
16:36 kf              I think it's insane to not do the updates... but if you wanted to do that, I couldn't stop you
16:36 kf              with a hash + local changes - the hashes will never match, so I will have no idea where the person is in a general view?
16:35 chris_n         no, z being a change you like, and I don't
16:35 kf              or that
16:35 chris_n         probably displaying the most recent "sync'd" db version number would be the best we could do
16:35 kf              z = local change? because I think they will only be local, not having a number
16:34 kf              or the last applied and failed updates in () behind that
16:34 chris_n         if I have a,b,c applied and you have a,b,z applied what version are we at?
16:34 kf              perhaps
16:34 kf              the last applied with a link to the page
16:34 chris_n         kf: but how would you determine what "version number" to display
16:33 kf              so people ilke me can ask: which of your numbers are red and have exploded?
16:33 kf              a hash and a number to be displayed?
16:33 kf              can't we have both?
16:33 * chris_n       would like to hear gmcharlt 's $0.02 on the subject
16:32 jcamins         I put in my vote for hashes ages ago.
16:32 jcamins         Agreed.
16:31 chris_n         and to me it seems hashes do a fantastic job
16:31 chris_n         kf: and the most responsible thing we can do is ensure track-ability
16:31 jcamins         chris_n: nor do I.
16:31 chris_n         jcamins: not without digging through the catalog
16:30 chris_n         kf: I agree, but there are no guarantees once the lid is off of that pandora's box
16:30 jcamins         chris_n: for good reason. Do you have an example of that?
16:30 * chris_n       just got finished badmouthing MARC with a colleague
16:29 kf              chris_n: not skipping things in general
16:29 kf              chris_n: I think the intended use was for 'local' things
16:29 jcamins         So, like, $aWizards$vBibliography and $aWizards$xBibliography.
16:28 jcamins         chris_n: I'm trying to find an example of two headings that are identical except for the subdivision code.
16:28 * chris_n       notes you're chatting with yourself ;-)
16:28 chris_n         feeling ok?
16:28 chris_n         jcamins: ?
16:27 jcamins         Bibliography?
16:27 jcamins         No.
16:25 jcamins         Maybe not. Maps?
16:23 jcamins         Ah, maybe Periodicals can be both subfield x and subfield v?
16:21 chris_n         requiring every update would render non-linear updates pointless unless I've missed something
16:20 * chris_n       personally does not see that it is possible to reduce the risk given the additional "surface area" non-linear updates will add to that
16:19 kf              I like having numbers and I like having a chance of everyone being on the same database structure
16:19 kf              which is what I don't like about the idea :(
16:18 kf              yeah
16:18 chris_n         but the possibility is increased
16:18 kf              or leave the impression it is
16:18 kf              and we shouldn't tell him it's a good idea
16:18 francharb       ;)
16:18 chris_n         it may not
16:18 * francharb     hugs Brooke
16:18 kf              but he shouldn't
16:18 asaurat         auf wiedersehen!
16:18 chris_n         there will be a greater chance that divergence will occur
16:18 chris_n         so...
16:18 chris_n         kf: with the new system the "admin" or whatever, may choose to apply or reject any update
16:17 kf              chris_n: because everything else will make helping people impossible
16:17 oleonard        Sorry, http://diligentroom.wordpress.com/2011/11/22/the-exemplar-of-stupid-koha-vs-liblime-trademark/
16:16 kf              chris_n: I think I disagree here - and I am really hoping peopel without local changes are on the same db version
16:16 oleonard        PTFS continues to do all its communicating in the form of comments on 3rd party blog posts diligentroom.wordpress.com/2011/11/22/the-exemplar-of-stupid-koha-vs-liblime-trademark/
16:16 kf              and never heard of all pref
16:16 kf              hm no
16:16 maximep         am i supposed to have all.pref?
16:15 maximep         anyone ever had an error saying all.pref not found when doing a system preferences search?
16:15 * chris_n       rids himself of another $0.02
16:11 huginn          New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 7282] invalid language selection <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7282>
16:11 reiveune        bye
16:07 * Brooke        hugs francharb
16:03 kf              it's only some things look ugly now without the stupid punctuation
16:03 kf              wizzyrea: I think if we made isbd and some other views work without... we could strip them....
16:02 kf              it is
16:02 kf              yep
16:01 * magnuse       thinks mixing punctuation and data is evil
16:00 wizzyrea        nice!
15:59 * chris_n       reminds peps that we do control #koha-news over on freenode; huginn hangs out there and posts koha news as it occurs in case you are interested
15:57 chris_n         which helps make everybody happy some of the time :-)
15:57 * chris_n       has used some regexps to strip it out when printing labels
15:57 * wizzyrea      recalls the library that systematically removed it - and then had to put it back when they came into our catalog >.<
15:56 chris_n         folks are constantly asking me what it is there for
15:56 * jcamins       too.
15:56 * chris_n       wishes they'd do away with end-of-(sub)field punctuation... period
15:54 jcamins         Is there any context in which end-of-subfield punctuation is significant in an authorized heading?
15:51 rhcl_asm        chris_n: == funny
15:48 chris_n         oleonard: I'm glad for you; they always seem to be driving for china when numbing me up... 8-P
15:47 * chris_n       better check the part of speech :)
15:46 chris_n         'idempotent' usage example: "Arguing with PTFS is idempotent"
15:45 oleonard        chris_n: The dentist is usually quite kind to me
15:45 kf              I asked something, he popped in, answered it and left again :)
15:45 huginn          rhcl_asm: gmcharlt was last seen in #koha 20 hours, 13 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <gmcharlt> cait: idempotent means that if you repeat an operation more than once, nothing changes
15:45 rhcl_asm        @seen gmcharlt
15:44 * chris_n       sees oleonard survived "the chair" yesterday :)
15:44 rhcl_asm        ya, probably wasn't necessary. I'm passing notes, tweeting, and trying to follow an active discussion.
15:42 oleonard        rhcl_asm: Just wondered why that should be "off"
15:42 * sekjal        looks at where this started, and where it's wound up, and wonders how he's going to get this feature coded any time this decade
15:40 kf              store the log in a useful way, make it possible to undo steps
15:40 rhcl_asm        are they doing it in secret? no, open discussion at MPLD (Missouri Public Library Directors meeting -where I'm at)
15:40 kf              perhaps we could go from that?
15:40 kf              sekjal: there is an option right now to turn on logging of changes...
15:39 kf              sekjal: I am not sure if this is going a step too far
15:39 oleonard        [off] secretly, rhcl_asm ?
15:38 Brooke          nice
15:38 rhcl_asm        [off] dudes, lots of Sirsi libs are migrating to EG here at the new Missouri consortium
15:37 * Brooke        thinks Sekjal intends to cast MassRes for Records.
15:37 sekjal          if we kept biblio revision history in a git-like way, we could easily share changes to biblios across libraries
15:37 wizzyrea        but you also need a way to dump the history.
15:37 wizzyrea        wordpress has such a thing.
15:36 wizzyrea        revision history
15:36 Brooke          oh wow
15:36 sekjal          so, basically, a git log
15:36 sekjal          what we'd need here is not just the last version, or a deleted version, but all versions from initial creation to now
15:35 wizzyrea        ^^
15:35 kf              but not a way to do it
15:35 kf              we have the information
15:35 kf              undo deletions
15:35 wizzyrea        well a revert would be awesomes
15:35 kf              I was told earlier version had features to bring back things from there... but it got broken
15:35 kf              sekjal: I think a first step here would be to make use of our deleted_* tables again
15:35 wizzyrea        you can at least see the changes
15:35 wizzyrea        well they are kind of backed up in the action logs
15:35 sekjal          wouldn't it be handy to have a quick 'revert' option there?
15:34 sekjal          how many libraries have run into a situation where someone accidentally overwrites a record with something else?
15:34 sekjal          extending the idea... why just backup items?  why not biblios?
15:33 wizzyrea        sekjal: batch edit could probably do that
15:33 rhcl_asm        I'm at a meeting
15:33 kf              sekjal: perhaps better have a backup table? easier to fit in into current workflow?
15:33 kf              sekjal: I think we talked about that in nz :) I like it
15:33 wizzyrea        well you're not following anybody
15:33 wizzyrea        there, feel better? :)
15:31 rhcl_asm        #MPLD
15:30 rhcl_asm        twitter
15:30 wizzyrea        rhcl- on what?
15:30 sekjal          and a mechanism to push values in there, and pull them back out
15:30 sekjal          so, a new table, temp_items or items_backup
15:30 rhcl_asm        so sad - nobody following me?
15:26 * Brooke        nods.
15:26 sekjal          mostly just increase storage
15:26 sekjal          Brooke:  I think it could be done with minimal system load
15:26 sekjal          course reserves
15:26 Brooke          how much of a load would that produce?
15:26 sekjal          'new' or 'featured' items on in a different shelving location
15:25 sekjal          floating collections
15:25 sekjal          possible use cases:
15:25 sekjal          so you can change some aspect of the record for a while, then go back
15:25 Brooke          but someone someplace big like NYPL might have a whole different story to tell.
15:25 sekjal          idea:  a complete "temporary item record" for any given item
15:25 Brooke          at least from what I've experienced.
15:25 Brooke          so in excess of about 80% of materials are just returned "normally"
15:24 Brooke          is more favourable than scattering
15:24 Brooke          I think the ratio overall
15:24 libsysguy       0/
15:24 Brooke          wb
15:23 Brooke          0/
15:23 kf              hi wizzyrea
15:23 Brooke          I'd return this where it belongs, but I've a screaming child in the car, so it's going to this branch.
15:23 kf              being able to set up circulation rules by bus stop, while your items are all at the bus as a home library...
15:23 Brooke          and an individual one off
15:22 Brooke          but there's still a difference between a collection
15:22 kf              so, when you only get to a bus stop once every 3 weeks, the due dates should be calculated accordingly
15:22 Guest18734      O.O
15:22 kf              people wnat a "bus stop management module" for that
15:22 kf              I was told
15:22 kf              book mobiles are entirely differnt
15:22 Brooke          from the stuff I'd borrow directly.
15:22 sekjal          I'm mostly considering cases where holds aren't involved, though, at least for right now
15:22 Brooke          is different
15:22 Brooke          the stuff I pull off of bookmobile
15:22 sekjal          kf:  yeah, the holds rewrite will factor into this, as well
15:21 Brooke          and a floating collection though
15:21 Brooke          there's a difference between an individual item
15:21 kf              having a rewrite for the holds is perhaps the way to go - thought it was kinda planned?
15:21 kf              I am not sure building anything on the current system wil work out really
15:21 sekjal          yeah, that's a pre-3.2 feature, so I think it needs a pretty big overhaul to make it work
15:21 kf              sekjal: the files are still in koha, but there were some bugs with it, so it's not displayed...
15:20 kf              sekjal: rotating collections I think - was supposed to do that
15:18 Brooke          so I might well be misinterpreting it.
15:18 Brooke          the description is scant though
15:17 Brooke          I think that's what the floating collection thing is meant to address, but doesn't quite yet as specced.
15:17 sekjal          do we need a third level of "temporary home library"?  for things sent away from their owners for an extended visit?
15:17 Brooke          then we know how successful the display was..
15:17 Brooke          they can stay at Main
15:17 Brooke          meh
15:17 Brooke          some people are like
15:16 Brooke          so send em back to Pine Hills.
15:16 Brooke          I don't want em back again
15:16 Brooke          even though the books are from Main
15:16 sekjal          kf:  yes
15:16 Brooke          like hey, I just sent this floating St. Patrick's display over to Pine Hills
15:16 kf              possessing = has it right now?
15:16 sekjal          we have "owning library", and "possessing library"
15:16 Brooke          yeah it seems like there has to be some sort of time based expiry jobby
15:16 sekjal          sorry
15:16 sekjal          we have o
15:16 sekjal          oh geeze, now we're bringing in a new question
15:15 Brooke          :)
15:15 kf              ;)
15:15 kf              uhoh
15:15 kf              I might not want it to be returned anywhere else thatn the holding branch
15:15 Brooke          Cait I think we're thinking alike
15:15 kf              supposed to stay there for a while
15:15 Brooke          but that's a risk we've to take ;)
15:15 kf              if it's been given to the holding branch as a kind of collection
15:15 Brooke          it might be immediately sent to Guam
15:15 kf              hm
15:15 Brooke          yes
15:15 sekjal          I mean, shouldn't homebranch ALWAYS be okay?
15:14 Brooke          or else we're in big trouble
15:14 Brooke          no
15:14 Brooke          oh wait, that's Local History / Rare, no freggin way."
15:14 sekjal          would it ever be a problem to return a book to the library that owns it?
15:14 Brooke          cause I was always like "ya! Lend that.:
15:14 Brooke          I'm just trying to figure out how you would deal with an anti social Library or collection
15:14 trea            hi Brooke
15:13 Brooke          0/ trea
15:13 kf              make it a list
15:13 kf              so you can combine
15:13 sekjal          oh, right, patron home branch could be different than home or issuing
15:13 kf              perhaps we need soemthing with checkboxes
15:12 kf              and anywhere
15:12 kf              oh
15:12 Brooke          I mean your way might well be better
15:12 kf              sekjal: homebranch, issuingbranch, patron's home branch?, holding branch
15:12 Brooke          do we want to lose the first lock?
15:12 sekjal          anywhere "on the same network as the homebranch", for some definition thereof
15:12 rhcl_asm        Tweeting #MPLD
15:12 Brooke          when you have "Can I return this here?" it's a toggle.
15:11 sekjal          some possibilities:  homebranch, issuingbranch, homebranch OR issuingbranch, anywhere
15:11 Brooke          there's a gradient
15:11 Brooke          when you phrase it that way
15:11 Brooke          that's interesting
15:11 sekjal          by question 1, I mean "where am I allowed to return this book?"
15:11 sekjal          so, for question 1, what would acceptable values be?
15:09 kf              true
15:08 sekjal          though, quote123 will factor in
15:08 sekjal          since it's a return, who had it is not likely to be important
15:08 sekjal          kf:  I believe so
15:08 kf              without borrower category
15:07 kf              sekjal: sounds like floating should be a circ matrix thing?
15:05 Brooke          but they might not want their stuff going outside of their moana
15:05 Brooke          they might have floating collections within their own island
15:05 Brooke          things are even trickier if you effectively have a central library and branches operating within a consortium
15:04 Brooke          but it's not the whole
15:04 Brooke          that's part of it
15:03 sekjal          because I do need the functionality wherein, depending on item type and homebranch, the item either stays at the return location, or goes home
15:02 Brooke          that checks to ensure that newer stuff might not be subject to a hold or transfer.
15:02 sekjal          will look at 7144
15:02 sekjal          sorry, phone
15:02 Brooke          so there should be an itemtype thinger
15:02 Brooke          that functionally never sees its home library
15:02 Brooke          is when you have a bestseller
15:02 Brooke          in this context
15:02 Brooke          the only time people seem to get a bee in their bonnet
15:01 Brooke          "Hey, they returned this to me, can I send it on to X Library? Cause one of _their_ Patrons wants it now."
15:01 Brooke          I used to telephone for ILLs
15:01 Brooke          back in the olden days
15:01 Brooke          which is where a neat chat window or good relationships within a consortium would come in handy
15:00 Brooke          question 2 would be a table with confirmation
14:59 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7144 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, srdjan, ASSIGNED , Floating collection
14:59 kf              bug 7144
14:59 Brooke          so that is certainly "right"
14:59 Brooke          no, we won't bring it back to the home library
14:59 kf              I think I have seen bugs for this.
14:59 Brooke          yes, we will take this piece of material
14:59 kf              and I think weighting was part of the planned holds rewirte?
14:59 Brooke          the first domino is yes or no though
14:59 kf              sekjal: have you seen the floating collection patch?
14:58 rhcl_asm        there, my contribution
14:58 rhcl_asm        think google circles--we have a route driver for an "external" consortial group, and we have our own intra-branch deliveries.
14:57 sekjal          rhcl: working on handling circ returns in a multi-branch environ
14:57 wahanui         hmmm... HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn is being used two different ways in AddReturn
14:57 Brooke          HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn
14:57 jcamins         rhcl_asm: return routing.
14:56 rhcl_asm        woke
14:56 rhcl_asm        I just wonke up, may I ask the subject?
14:56 jcamins         It does, but might be a little NP-complete.
14:56 Brooke          it's also waste when it is mailed back to central rather than just filled on the spot.
14:55 Brooke          does that make any sense?
14:55 Brooke          rather than wait a week
14:55 Brooke          if we know that the truck is going to the next Library down the road, it's easier to send it on so it gets there today
14:55 Brooke          in general, Libraries have a set schedule for delivery
14:55 Brooke          that takes delivery in mind
14:54 Brooke          and cleverness in construction
14:54 Brooke          a weighting mechanism
14:54 Brooke          I'd also suggest
14:54 sekjal          what should those mechanisms look like?
14:54 sekjal          so, we need to break HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn down into two separate mechanisms.  one to answer question 1, the other to answer question 2
14:53 sekjal          and, with IndependantBranches on, you cannot return to anything BUT the HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn library
14:52 sekjal          the problem being, of course, that if you can only return to the HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn library, then your automatic transfer won't kick off, because you're already there
14:51 Brooke          I grok ye sekjal.
14:51 * Brooke        nods.
14:51 sekjal          right now, we're using HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn to answer both of those questions
14:51 sekjal          2) if so, where does that material go next?
14:51 sekjal          1) can the patron return the material here?
14:51 sekjal          so, there are really two questions that come into play in a return
14:50 jcamins         sekjal: yes, that's a common situation with large consortia.
14:49 kf              I imagine it#s probably slowing down zebra now too
14:49 paul_p          well, we hoped it was a shared problem...
14:49 sekjal          paul_p:  is there a solution, or at least a good place to start?
14:48 jcamins         paul_p: was that a surprise? :P
14:48 sekjal          a material is owned by one library, and possibly lent by another, and could in theory be returned to a third
14:48 paul_p          we had a Solr expert last week, for 3 days. The speed of Koha/Solr sometimes goes very bad. The reason is not Solr. It's Koha !
14:48 sekjal          so, in a multi branch environment, circulation is naturally more complex
14:47 jcamins         sekjal: I'd like to hear about it, anyway.
14:47 kf              making us more and more curious...
14:47 * sekjal        worries he may have oversold this...
14:47 kf              spill :)
14:47 sekjal          half bugfix, half feature, really
14:47 Brooke          should we do a type with me for speccing, or what?
14:47 Brooke          I <3 features.
14:47 sekjal          nothing super fancy
14:47 Brooke          discuss
14:47 Brooke          oooh oooh
14:47 sekjal          I've got a feature idea I need to discuss a bit, if anyone has time
14:46 Brooke          :)
14:46 Brooke          a yep
14:46 kf              I like this better than discussions about past and things - let's make koha the best ils
14:45 sekjal          joubu++
14:45 sekjal          paul_p++.  that kind of work is VERY satisfying
14:44 Brooke          I'm really excited to hear about all of the good stuff that came out of conference performance wise
14:44 paul_p          joubu++ would be more honest ;-)
14:44 huginn          libsysguy_afk: Karma for "improving_koha" has been increased 1 time and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 1.
14:44 libsysguy_afk   @karma improving_koha
14:44 Brooke          paul_p++
14:44 Brooke          way to go paul!
14:44 kf              paul_p++
14:44 kf              improving_koha++ :)
14:44 kf              cool :)
14:43 paul_p          (on each result page)
14:43 paul_p          yeah ... we've found a stupid SQL query that load all framework just to retrieve one value. Patch coming, that reduce the CPU consumption a lot ! (from 5.98s to 4.23s on our tests...)
14:43 sekjal          ah, that brings me back...
14:42 * magnuse       's mind boggles
14:41 Brooke          clearly this is the intended purpose of Reference. ;)
14:41 Brooke          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C7mNr5WMjA
14:40 magnuse         ?
14:40 Brooke          :)
14:40 brendan_ripon   yup that one
14:40 Brooke          it's big it's heavy it's wood?
14:39 brendan_ripon   whoops song not sound
14:39 brendan_ripon   whenever I type log - I always think of the sound..  log log
14:39 wahanui         irc logs are ibot's friend :) or at http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/
14:39 kf              irc logs?
14:39 wahanui         okay, kf.
14:39 kf              irc logs are also at http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/
14:39 brendan_ripon   heh
14:39 jcamins         Uhhh...
14:39 kf              lol
14:39 wahanui         irc logs are ibot's friend :)
14:39 jcamins         irc logs?
14:38 wahanui         ...but irc logs are ibot's friend :)...
14:38 wahanui         ...but irc logs is ibot's friend :)...
14:38 jcamins         wahanui: irc logs are at http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/
14:38 brendan_ripon   thanks
14:38 wahanui         logs are at http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/
14:38 brendan_ripon   logs?
14:38 brendan_ripon   irc_logs?
14:38 brendan_ripon   morning all
14:34 Brooke          if they were earnest, they'd have signed over the assets
14:34 oleonard        Come back with new information jwagner
14:33 jwagner         And at the risk of ending this enjoyable conversation, I have a client call scheduled that I have to make.  I'll be back later.
14:33 Brooke          can you cite in the meeting minutes when you've brought up this issue?
14:33 oleonard        jwagner: Are you saying you speak for PTFS?
14:33 oleonard        Don't throw the question back at me jwagner
14:33 jwagner         Brooke, I've attended almost every meeting.
14:33 oleonard        jwagner: Your press release says PTFS wants it. So do it.
14:33 Brooke          we work in sunlight.
14:33 Brooke          instead of insisting that things are done under cover of darkness.
14:33 Brooke          then show up at the next General IRC meeting
14:32 jwagner         why do you think the stakeholders haven't?  We've tried talking to the committee in the past; we're willing to try again.
14:31 oleonard        jwagner: Why do you think PTFS has not moved to start a direct dialog with Koha stakeholders to determine an equitable solution for the disposition of the trademark that serves the best interests of the libraries who use Koha?
14:30 sekjal          I believe that's a fairly accurate search... I'm willing to refine as necessary
14:30 sekjal          http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git&a=search&h=HEAD&st=author&s=wagner
14:30 jwagner         and I'm not trying to buy credits.  I'm talking about patches I have personally written and submitted.
14:30 oleonard        jwagner: You don't want to submit patches because you get attacked for it?
14:30 jwagner         oleonard, for precisely this reason -- I'm tired of being attacked
14:29 oleonard        jwagner: You don't get to "buy" the credit for Liblime's participation in the past
14:29 oleonard        jwagner: Obviously there is, because time has changed your participation level
14:29 Brooke          go ahead.
14:29 Brooke          versus the harm you've sought to do
14:29 jwagner         So there's a time limit on "participation"
14:29 Brooke          do the maths to see what I've done for the community this past year alone
14:29 Brooke          PTFS commits from US are negligible at best.
14:28 Brooke          but if you look at git for the last year
14:28 Brooke          *LibLime* initially participated
14:28 Brooke          Go.
14:28 Brooke          Stack your negligible commits to master v my documentation
14:28 Brooke          sure.
14:27 jwagner         Brooke, would you care to compare how many patches I and other PTFS people have submitted to _community_ code versus how many you have done?
14:27 Brooke          there's still time to do what you said you would
14:26 Brooke          patronising over IRC also doesn't count.
14:25 Brooke          submitting patches to your own fork's repository doesn't count.
14:25 chris_n         they say they have received such invaluable support thorough the list and irc that they want to give back
14:25 jcamins         philippines_house_of_representatives++
14:25 Brooke          oh sweet chris
14:25 chris_n         for development purposes
14:25 jcamins         Woohoo!
14:24 * chris_n       reads an email with an offer to use the koha dataset from the House of Representatives Congressional Library Bureau of the Philippians in it
14:24 jwagner         Let's see.  Definition of support?  Participate in meetings, create bug reports, submit patches, participate on the listserv and IRC, what else?
14:24 Brooke          how so?
14:24 Brooke          oh really?
14:23 jwagner         We have done so.
14:23 Brooke          http://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2010-April/023548.html
14:23 Brooke          I'm still waiting for that.
14:23 Brooke          "As promised, PTFS will continue to support the Koha open source community."
14:22 oleonard        jwagner: We are waiting.
14:22 Brooke          PTFS willingly repeated past mistakes.
14:22 oleonard        jwagner: "PTFS/LibLime encourages a direct dialog with Koha stakeholders to determine an equitable solution for the disposition of the trademark that serves the best interests of the libraries who use Koha"
14:22 Brooke          they chose not to use it
14:22 oleonard        jwagner: https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150377460456996
14:22 Brooke          you had my information
14:21 Brooke          no.
14:21 Brooke          and did they contact me?
14:21 jwagner         My memory is not short, but my patience is exhausted.
14:21 jwagner         I did not.  I passed that offer on to my bosses.
14:21 Brooke          and you rebuffed me.
14:21 Brooke          I offered to talk over Community issues
14:20 Brooke          the very first time I met you
14:20 Brooke          and perhaps your memory is short indeed
14:19 Brooke          is that a Koha Foundation, controlled solely by PTFS, can hold a mark
14:19 Brooke          what has been rebuffed
14:18 Brooke          and I believe that it was just stated that HLT can do just that and are validated by the community to do so.
14:18 jwagner         Because every time we've tried we've been rebuffed.  I've participated in several of those discussions myself.
14:18 Brooke          I'd still like to know why John Yokley promised community involvement and has failed to deliver on that.
14:18 jwagner         We have not and will not attempt to enforce trademarks, but also will not hand them over without the guarantees we've stated.
14:17 Brooke          I'd love to see it.
14:17 Brooke          by all means, make that public
14:17 jwagner         Brooke, yes they did.  We have the correspondence.
14:17 Brooke          the self preservation argument is ridiculous on the face.
14:17 Brooke          at no point did anyone use a mark against you
14:17 oleonard        jwagner: You're misrepresenting again
14:17 Brooke          Then continued to war with the community, yes?
14:17 jwagner         So you're asking us to hand over things like trademarks etc. to people who participated in trying to use them against us
14:17 Brooke          Your CEO professed a fresh start, yes?
14:16 Brooke          So that obstacle no longer exists, yes?
14:16 jwagner         This was done at the instigation of Josh and Liblime who were afraid of us, but supported and enabled by many of the same people who now represent "the community".
14:16 Brooke          You were blocked by a party that no longer participates, no?
14:15 oleonard        jwagner: We don't want to hear your history lession. We just want to know when PTFS will be contacting us.
14:15 jwagner         Maybe it is time for the history lesson.  When PTFS first entered the Koha field, our attempts to get listed as a support provider were blocked repeatedly and we were ordered to stop using the Koha logo etc. by people who now have conveniently short memories.
14:15 huginn          JesseM: The current temperature in Brewer Stratford Marina, Stratford, Connecticut is 4.8�C (9:13 AM EST on December 01, 2011). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 24%. Dew Point: -14.0�C. Windchill: 0.0�C. Pressure: 30.10 in 1019.2 hPa (Rising).
14:15 JesseM          @wunder 06614
14:15 oleonard        The first, to my knowledge.
14:14 * Brooke        is pretty sure oleonard knows his history as he works at the Library that was one of the first running Koha in the states.
14:14 oleonard        If you're telling me, jwagner, that PTFS cannot reach the Koha stakeholders, then I'm confused.
14:13 oleonard        ...as they said they "encouraged"
14:13 oleonard        Actually I was just wondering when  PTFS/LibLime would seek a direct dialog with Koha stakeholders to determine an equitable solution for the disposition of the trademark
14:13 jwagner         Or to just note that we HAVE sought dialog multiple times and been rebuffed.
14:13 jwagner         oleonard, would you like a history lesson, and to have me correct all the misstatements in the preceding discussion?
14:12 oleonard        jwagner: When will PTFS/LibLime seek a direct dialog with Koha stakeholders to determine an equitable solution for the disposition of the trademark?
14:11 libsysguy1      haha that would be pretty funny to see actually
14:09 oleonard        It would be great press to have PTFS say they would go after libraries using the term Koha
14:08 libsysguy1      yeah…so its basically comes down to…what is your name worth to you
14:07 Brooke          oh well.
14:07 Brooke          no more blood to suck
14:07 Brooke          which would hose a leech.
14:07 Brooke          we'd name change and move on
14:07 Brooke          not entirely
14:05 libsysguy1      if they did…we'd basically be royally screwed
14:05 libsysguy1      BUT
14:04 libsysguy1      because no court would uphold it...
14:03 kf              they have not tried to enforce it
14:03 Brooke          interresante.
14:03 kf              hm let's wait ok?
14:01 libsysguy1      ^^
14:00 oleonard        If the trademark issue in NZ is resolved as PTFS has promised I wonder if we could use those donations to challenge the TM in the US
13:59 libsysguy1      agreed
13:58 Brooke          it'd be interesting to see what the courts said.
13:58 Brooke          I personally think the horse has long left the stall
13:58 oleonard        Too bad libraries in the United States have been using Koha under that name since before Liblime existed.
13:57 libsysguy1      and they have the wordmark
13:57 libsysguy1      since we have "confusingly similar" products
13:57 libsysguy1      technically we could run into problems if we bought koha.com
13:57 libsysguy1      so I am kind of interested in what is going on with this
13:56 kf              yay ;)
13:56 * libsysguy1    is taking a business law class this semester
13:56 kf              because it's nice - and has a meaning
13:56 kf              that's what I was thinking
13:56 libsysguy1      no its not, and we should file for a mark on our symbol
13:56 libsysguy1      it wasn't until we called and found out it wasn't the open source koha that we found koha-community
13:56 kf              so the symbol is not trademarked, right?
13:55 Brooke          deceptive business practices are deceptive?
13:55 oleonard        I think it would just create more confusion if our project were koha.com and ptfs were koha.org
13:55 kf              koha is a character mark
13:55 kf              hm
13:55 libsysguy1      ok, I just know that when we first started looking for Koha we found ptfs first
13:54 oleonard        Yeah, I don't think that's something we should pursue. We have our own domain
13:54 Brooke          and why?
13:54 Brooke          where else would they host their hockey site?
13:54 libsysguy1      hehe i can do that…im in college :p
13:54 asaurat         libsysguy1: try to look poor
13:54 libsysguy1      ok
13:54 kf              yeah, I would think leve them
13:54 libsysguy1      yeah
13:54 kf              the hockey team?
13:54 Brooke          personally, I'd just leave them alone
13:53 libsysguy1      Would anybody be opposed to me shooting the maintainer an email just to see what his price was?
13:52 kf              ah
13:52 libsysguy1      thus ptfs now owns that mark
13:52 Brooke          yep Metavore is LibLime's real name
13:52 kf              hm
13:52 libsysguy1      i assume they were bought by ptfs
13:52 libsysguy1      i see the wordmark on Koha from Metavore
13:51 Brooke          http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4001:5l2e23.2.1
13:51 Brooke          It's theoretically abandoned, but it wouldn't surprise me if they reactivated at some point
13:49 Brooke          yep
13:49 libsysguy1      Brooke you mean the hockey team?
13:48 kf              asaurat: ok, that makes sense then :)
13:48 Brooke          it's not like anyone would be confused by their website.
13:48 Brooke          plus
13:48 Brooke          so I don't think they'll fork over the domain.
13:48 Brooke          they had the trade mark to Koha in the US for like forever
13:39 asaurat         well, that's a hockey team and we have a project from new zealand, they will refuse any rugby game I'm afraid ;)
13:39 libsysguy1      their whois record shows a public contact
13:38 libsysguy1      and honestly sometimes it was worth the call
13:38 libsysguy1      well I used to work for a company that dealt in domains
13:38 kf              asaurat: rugby!
13:38 kf              koha.de belongs to a publisher
13:38 libsysguy1      hehe
13:38 asaurat         maybe could they surrender it to us if we beat them in a hockey game
13:38 kf              I don't think so
13:38 oleonard        I don't think that ever works out well
13:37 libsysguy1      I know the community doesn't own any money but has anybody contacted koha.com to see how much they would want for their domain?
13:34 kf              hi paul_away
13:32 kf              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chom-chom
13:32 kf              jcamins: Koha cha cham 3.6
13:32 kf              no = know
13:32 kf              but I no not much more than that
13:31 kf              we have notice templates, and available shows up in the template for suggestions
13:31 jcamins         Koha ash-covered goat cheese 3.10.0?
13:31 asaurat         seems logical indeed, I'll take a look
13:31 kf              and we are supposed to send out letters when things get available
13:31 kf              so it seems to me like it was intended
13:31 kf              but I found traces of it
13:31 asaurat         ok
13:31 kf              I am not sure how much of that has been implemented :(
13:31 kf              it's in the templates
13:30 asaurat         is there already an AVAILABLE status used somewhere, or would it be something to be created ? I don't remember that
13:29 kf              hope you don't mind :) still very happy that this part works now!
13:29 kf              hehe
13:29 kf              I think we could consider the status thing working perfectly if it would go into AVAILABLE sometime
13:29 asaurat         yep, saw that, you don't lose any time ;) good!
13:29 Brooke          0/
13:28 kf              :P
13:28 kf              I also might have given some pointers to other related bugs...
13:28 asaurat         thx =)
13:28 kf              tested the fix for suggestions you did and it works very nicely :)
13:28 asaurat         I saw the updates about our bug :D
13:28 kf              asaurat++
13:27 asaurat         hi!
13:27 kf              hi asaurat :)
13:23 libsysguy1      yeah but i was thinking there might be a tip line ;)
13:23 Brooke          and even if there were, not all 501c3s are created equal ;)
13:23 Brooke          it gets sticky, but it's not like there's someone at the registrar's going "Hey buddy, hand over your 501c3 paperwork"
13:23 libsysguy1      i wonder if koha.com would consider selling
13:22 libsysguy1      well thats sad then...
13:21 Brooke          so
13:21 Brooke          and they're a defence contractor
13:21 Brooke          indeed. MITRE was the first with it
13:21 Brooke          but not everyone with one is non profit.
13:21 Brooke          it was intended for non profit use initially
13:20 libsysguy1      hmm
13:20 Brooke          nope that's an Interwebs myth
13:20 libsysguy1      secondly I thought that .org was only for non-profit organizations
13:17 libsysguy1      Ex: freekoha.com, bestkoha.com, and thekoha.com
13:16 libsysguy1      so I was doing some early morning domain name browsing and I saw some interesting dn's for sale related to Koha
13:05 kf              counts
13:05 kf              coutns
13:05 kf              it counds
13:04 kf              it's in the list of sweets
13:04 Brooke          you're back to drinks :P
13:04 kf              Koha Lassi?
13:03 kf              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_sweets_and_desserts
13:03 kf              looks yummy enough
13:02 Brooke          http://www.manjulaskitchen.com/2006/12/23/gulab-jamun/
13:02 jcamins         http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulab_jamun
13:02 kf              picture?
13:01 kf              huh?
13:01 Brooke          Koha Gulab Jamun
13:01 kf              what for india?
13:01 kf              also a nice plan
13:00 Brooke          in naming the sweets locally
13:00 jcamins         lol
13:00 Brooke          we could honour the country that hosted KohaCon that year
13:00 kf              yeah, and suddenly you want to update!
13:00 jcamins         Koha Oatmeal-chocolate chip 3.8.0.
13:00 kf              or sweets in general :) yum. hehe
13:00 Brooke          but cookies ARE more fun.
13:00 Brooke          Bordeaux sounds better
13:00 kf              cookies on the opposite...
12:59 kf              that's stinky
12:59 jcamins         Koha Gouda 3.8.0.
12:59 Brooke          I can be persuaded to run cookie flavours.
12:59 kf              that's much more logical for us than wine or cheese
12:59 jcamins         Koha Bordeaux 3.8.0.
12:59 kf              cookie flavours :)
12:59 Brooke          we're running Koha Syrah.
12:59 Brooke          wine.
12:59 Brooke          feck cheese
12:58 jcamins         cheese++
12:58 kf              chris_n++ :)
12:57 jcamins         Heh. ".not-a-LibLime-fake"
12:55 chris_n         :)
12:55 Brooke          cheers
12:55 * Brooke        posits that chris_n is also prolly a Yorkshireman at heart ;)
12:55 chris_n         ok, off to teach algebra
12:55 chris_n         and maybe a chocolate donut or two :)
12:54 * chris_n       hands over some truffles
12:54 * Brooke        gives Cait some hot chocolate.
12:51 kf              can I get hot chocolate?
12:50 * chris_n       reads the mail
12:48 * jcamins       sips the coffee from chris_n.
12:46 NateC           and everyone else too!
12:46 chris_n         and anyone else who would like some
12:46 NateC           morning jcamins
12:46 NateC           morning Brooke!
12:46 * chris_n       hands jcamins coffee
12:46 chris_n         g'morning/afternoon kf
12:45 jcamins         Good morning, #koha.
12:42 Brooke          oi Nate
12:41 kf              hi chris_n
12:40 chris_n         heh, humidity... not
12:39 huginn          chris_n: The current temperature in Erwin, North Carolina is 0.0�C (7:15 AM EST on December 01, 2011). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 100%. Dew Point: 0.0�C. Windchill: -2.0�C. Pressure: 30.27 in 1025 hPa (Rising).
12:39 chris_n         @wunder 28334
12:33 syed            kf: let me try 1st to fetch this book through librarian  (as brooke: said)
12:32 kf              no, I think there isn't but you might still want to check the hold related system preferences
12:32 kf              or perhaps
12:32 kf              hm
12:32 syed            ok
12:31 kf              no
12:31 syed            Brooke: kf:  If I placed hold any book from OPAC... is there any option that the same book will show "on hold" to other OPAC user
12:21 kf              what Brooke said
12:21 kf              syed: it still displays as available, until you go and get it and return it
12:21 Brooke          I think it stays available until the Librarian fetches it and places a hold on it. Unless they finagle though, you ought to stay first in the holds queue though.
12:18 syed            I have "placehold" a book on OPAC which has only 1 copy ... but the same book still available to other OPAC user?
12:16 wahanui         what's up, Brooke
12:16 Brooke          howdy
12:16 syed            hi all
11:45 Brooke          rats
11:45 francharb       time for lunch!
11:44 francharb       ;^)
11:44 francharb       0/ Brooke!
11:02 Brooke          bananacremepie++
10:48 * Brooke        suspects that no one in Horowhenua turns in before 10.
10:38 Brooke          nope
10:38 * Brooke        hops
10:38 kf              but today is not a meeting?
10:38 kf              hehe ok
10:38 Brooke          It's 5.35 here. That's uh, not even early if I'm lead to believe our meeting schedule is decent. :P
10:37 Brooke          NU!
10:37 kf              hi Brooke - go to bed ;)
10:25 Brooke          :D
10:24 magnuse         o/
10:14 Brooke          0/
09:55 magnuse         yay
09:55 huginn          magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 8.0�C (10:20 AM CET on December 01, 2011). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 71%. Dew Point: 3.0�C. Windchill: 4.0�C. Pressure: 28.94 in 980 hPa (Steady).
09:55 magnuse         @wunder boo
09:39 huginn          kf_mtg: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 4.9�C (10:35 AM CET on December 01, 2011). Conditions: Fog. Humidity: 97%. Dew Point: 4.0�C. Windchill: 5.0�C. Pressure: 30.28 in 1025.3 hPa (Rising).
09:39 kf_mtg          @wunder Konstanz
09:34 huginn          rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 15.0�C (10:00 PM NZDT on December 01, 2011). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 72%. Dew Point: 10.0�C. Pressure: 30.36 in 1028 hPa (Rising).
09:34 rangi           @wunder wellington nz
09:03 rangi           typing fail
09:02 kf_mtg          ?
09:01 rangi           hmm
09:01 rangi           3/ws 18
08:48 magnuse         yeah, i have 370 unread *threads* in my "koha tech" folder, mostly patches and bugzilla updates
08:48 kf              inbox at 33 today... but i have todo folders
08:47 magnuse         i have 22 threads to go through, then it's empty
08:47 rangi           9971 currently in my koha folder
08:47 kf              uoh
08:47 magnuse         kf: yes, i did make a note of you non-supportiveness ;-)
08:47 rangi           thats my inbox
08:47 kf              for me it really depends on the folder
08:46 kf              magnuse: i was not very supportive... sorry
08:46 rangi           i currently only have 488 mails
08:44 kf              :)
08:44 magnuse         thanks Judit
08:44 magnuse         well, the plan is to solve/answer what i can do now, and move the rest to my todo list
08:42 kf              magnuse: you believe in miracles?
08:42 Judit           you can do it
08:42 Judit           go magnus, go!
08:41 magnuse         my goal for the day: an empty inbox...
08:38 juan_sieira     I need some coffee to start...
08:38 juan_sieira     I just arrived now to office
08:37 magnuse         yay, that's the spirit! ;-)
08:37 juan_sieira     keep on working
08:37 juan_sieira     none
08:35 magnuse         wassup juan_sieira?
08:35 juan_sieira     hi magnuse
08:35 rangi           hehe
08:34 * magnuse       considers campaining for adopting english as the official language in norway
08:33 kf              magnuse++
08:33 kf              woohooo!
08:33 magnuse         only 81% left on the staff side... gah!
08:33 rangi           woo whoo
08:33 magnuse         stupid norwegian strings getting themselves marked as fuzzy!
08:33 magnuse         yay nb-NO opac is 100% translated again
08:32 magnuse         hiya francharb and juan_sieira
08:32 kf              hi francharb
08:32 francharb       morning
08:25 kf              [off] rofl
08:25 rangi           [off] and it makes cheese
08:25 kf              [off] did you miss it? it's great - has a lot new features, like multibranch support, normarc, and printing slips
08:24 magnuse         [off] huh?
08:24 kf              ah ok.
08:23 rangi           [off] i released 9391238390438035823502358205235239-5829570238592735-28350987t-8i3082-9385203852852 yesterday anyway
08:23 rangi           not important
08:23 rangi           but meh
08:23 rangi           its all about confusing
08:23 kf              hm?
08:22 rangi           3.6 kf
08:22 * kf            shakes her head
08:22 kf              not 4.4...
08:22 kf              but it's 4.8
08:22 rangi           yeah, not much diff to 4.2
08:22 kf              ... and it's really not that interesting
08:21 magnuse         [off] https://github.com/liblime/LibLime-Koha
08:21 paul_p          really ? it's not written anywhere.
08:21 rangi           paul_p: its all in github
08:21 kf              paul_p: ?
08:21 paul_p          time to leave for my meeting. See you soon
08:21 kf              gut :)
08:21 * paul_p        just requested a link to DL LLK 4.8 Will report you about the results...
08:20 rangi           wie gehts kf?
08:20 magnuse         yay
08:20 kf              another good morning to you too :)
08:20 magnuse         wieder guten morgen kf
08:19 magnuse         stupid norwegian strings getting themselves marked as fuzzy!
08:13 julian_m        hi
08:08 magnuse         bonjour!
08:07 asaurat         hi! !
08:06 reiveune        hello
08:06 magnuse         have a nice meeting paul_p!
08:05 paul_p          hi magnus_afk & rangi (here just for a few minuts, after, heading for a meeting)
08:05 rangi           hi paul_p
08:03 magnus_afk      kia ora paul_p
07:53 cait            bbiab
07:42 wahanui         cait: I forgot bug 6893
07:42 cait            forget bug 6893
07:42 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6893 critical, PATCH-Sent, ---, adrien.saurat, ASSIGNED , Order from suggestion does not remove suggestion from 'accepted' list
07:42 wahanui         ...but bug 6893 is evil :(...
07:42 cait            wahanui: bug 6893 is no longer that evil
07:42 wahanui         cait: excuse me?
07:42 cait            wahanui: no longer!
07:35 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6893 critical, PATCH-Sent, ---, adrien.saurat, ASSIGNED , Order from suggestion does not remove suggestion from 'accepted' list
07:35 wahanui         bug 6893 is evil :(
07:35 magnus_afk      bug 6893
07:34 cait            just finished testing 6893 - works great
07:34 cait            asaurat++
07:30 alex_a          voila
07:27 cait            morning alex_a1 :)
07:27 alex_a1         morning cait
07:13 Oak             thanks
07:13 Oak             later. will tell about today'a adventure :)
07:13 cait            ok, bye Oak :)
07:13 Oak             okay me go now.
07:13 Oak             :)
07:12 cait            koha and almost everything that is not cauliflower :)
07:11 Oak             any day of the year
07:11 Oak             it would be fun to hear you talk about your hobbies and favorite dish, though
07:10 cait            not really awake yet
07:10 Oak             i was just kidding cait :-)
07:10 cait            not about my hobbies and my favourite dish
07:10 cait            things like that :)
07:10 cait            talking about me = librarian, work at BSZ... what do I do there
07:09 Oak             Hello and welcome. good.
07:09 Oak             got it
07:09 Oak             kidding, again
07:09 Oak             oh thank you, i'm happy to be here
07:08 cait            and welcome, nice you are here... will be talking about ... today
07:08 Oak             :)
07:08 cait            hehe
07:08 Oak             kidding
07:08 Oak             it's rude to talk about oneself
07:08 Oak             once you get going... then it's fine
07:08 cait            telling them a bit about myself most of the time
07:08 Oak             starting is weird.
07:08 cait            hm
07:07 Oak             scary, yes, which reminds me, how do people start their presentation?
07:07 cait            scary
07:07 Oak             yes. another year.
07:07 cait            yeah it is
07:07 magnus_afk      Oak
07:06 Oak             magnus
07:05 magnus_afk      wow, 1st of december
07:05 cait            :)
07:05 magnus_afk      morgen cait
07:05 cait            morning magnuse :)
07:04 magnus_afk      kia ora #koha
05:23 cait            hey rangi and mr Oak :)
05:22 Oak             hello miss cait
05:22 Oak             :)
05:22 rangi           morning cait
05:22 rangi           hi Oak
05:12 Oak             :)
05:12 druthb          hi, Oak! :D
05:09 Oak             rangi
05:09 Oak             hello druthb :)
05:09 Oak             uh oh
05:09 Oak             kia or a#koha
04:47 rangi           on the bus
04:47 rangi           back
03:03 brendan_ripon   ports above 6000 are blocked
03:00 Judit           once we found a hotel with - "free-WiFi"- it meant that you could browse the site of the hotel for free :D
03:00 rangi           brendan_ripon: hotel blocks ssh?
03:00 Judit           that is what we always do
03:00 Judit           and share the network
02:59 Judit           it is usually easier and cheaper to buy a sim card and use itin a unlocked phone
02:58 druthb          just think...it's better than Vihang's!
02:58 druthb          gotta love hotel wifi.  when it works, at all.
02:58 * brendan_ripon is on mibbit - since I'm blocked by the hotel
02:57 brendan_ripon   yo druthb
02:54 druthb          hi, brendan_ripon! :)
02:49 * brendan_ripon loves training libraries - that's where it's at
02:47 * chris_n       hears the pillow calling
02:46 rangi           same old same old
02:45 brendan_ripon   yo rangs - what's happening
02:44 rangi           hiya brendan_ripon
02:43 brendan_ripon   evening
02:32 rangi           ibeardslee: https://twitter.com/#!/taratj/status/142067720719048705
02:26 * druthb        is kind of irritated to discover that there are no Koha contributors on this list:  http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_women_in_FLOSS    May have to correct that.
02:22 lizzy           hrmph
02:22 rangi           heh
02:22 lizzy           hmm indeed
02:02 huginn          rangi: The operation succeeded.
02:02 rangi           @later tell paul_p shouldnt the db version in master by 3.07 ? not 3.06
02:01 rangi           hmmm
01:57 BobB            :)
01:56 BobB            Except a couple of libraries want to go live whilst the rest of the country is quiet.
01:56 BobB            Australia shuts for January.
01:56 BobB            Its near the end of the year now - it gets busy.
01:53 druthb          :D  Good to hear!
01:52 BobB            Hi Ruth, all good here.
01:51 druthb          hi, rangi! :D
01:51 rangi           hi druthb
01:51 druthb          hi, BobB!  :D  how's things down your way?
01:50 * BobB          waves to druthb
01:45 druthb          giggling like a maniac.
01:43 trea            how goes it?
01:43 trea            hi druthb
01:43 druthb          hi, trea!
01:40 wizzyrea        hiyas :)
01:40 druthb          :D  hi, wizzyrea!
01:40 wizzyrea        \o
01:39 druthb          o/
01:32 wizzyrea        not yet!
01:31 Judit           :D so he put it up in his nose?
01:31 wizzyrea        I just told my 3 year old "no, we don't ever ever ever put our gum in our ears!!!"
01:31 wizzyrea        well there's one for the log
01:30 Judit           oki
01:30 Judit           you just need to remember when browsing the logs that the time is behind
01:28 wizzyrea        probably no big deal really
01:27 rangi           so you would want to switch ethe server time to be AU
01:27 rangi           yes
01:27 Judit           it could mean almost a day delay
01:27 Judit           if the server time is back in USA and the library is in AU, it could mess up even the circulation rules
01:25 rangi           and all the emails etc
01:25 Judit           i see
01:25 Judit           hm
01:25 rangi           cos the crons will still run on system time
01:25 rangi           changing it in koha would be messy
01:25 Judit           thanks
01:25 rangi           it runs on the servers timezone
01:24 rangi           no
01:24 Judit           can you change the timezone in koha? i dont seem to find it in the manual
01:24 huginn          New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 7278] In the items table, make items.materials of type text, and show its contents at circulation <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7278>
00:56 mtj             ok, thanks chris
00:56 mtj             ah, i just missed chris_n  :/
00:56 rangi           7th december
00:55 mtj             ... with the security patches?
00:55 mtj             peeps.. any idea when 3.4.7 is being released?
00:55 rangi           heh
00:53 wizzyrea        that would be "3 year old typing detected"
00:53 Judit           hi rea, having fun?
00:51 wizzyrea        ; [
00:51 wizzyrea        m ;jk[; ]'
00:51 wizzyrea        j'
00:51 wizzyrea