Time  Nick           Message
23:58 wizzyrea       wonder if they would...
23:58 wizzyrea       hmm
23:58 jcamins        Bibliocommons.
23:57 wizzyrea       iluinar?
23:57 wizzyrea       who
23:57 jcamins        Wish they'd share their solr configuration.
23:54 wizzyrea       keke
23:53 jcamins        Yep.
23:53 jcamins        Scroll just right and you can make the buttons at the top flicker in a seizure-inducing fashion.
23:53 wizzyrea       oh are you looking at iluminar?
23:53 jcamins        Ooh, love the fading!
23:52 jcamins        Hey... I've seen these icons before.
23:52 wizzyrea       and while it crashes your computer with poorly programmed flash
23:52 wizzyrea       yes
23:52 jcamins        Wait while it loads?
23:51 wizzyrea       it's abysmal
23:51 wizzyrea       we can learn how NOT to do it by looking at autographics' illuminar
23:51 wizzyrea       yeap
23:50 jcamins        But boy does it make a difference.
23:50 wizzyrea       ya
23:50 jcamins        Other than the social stuff, a lot of the formatting could be done with CSS.
23:49 wizzyrea       mhm
23:49 jcamins        NYPL just adopted Bibliocommons.
23:49 jcamins        We sure do.
23:48 wizzyrea       we really need to work on our opac
23:48 wizzyrea       it is
23:48 jcamins        From a user's point of view.
23:48 jcamins        It looks surprisingly nice.
23:47 wizzyrea       and I know someone who works there
23:47 wizzyrea       a library in our system (not a nexpress library) uses it
23:47 wizzyrea       e
23:47 wizzyrea       i hav
23:41 jcamins        Don't everyone answer at once.
23:36 jcamins        Has anyone ever heard of BiblioCommons before?
22:56 eythian        ah yep
22:56 jcamins        Also, my EC2 server's running Lucid at the moment, so Puppet needs to handle it.
22:52 eythian        ah, a good plan then :)
22:49 jcamins        If it works on Lucid, which requires a list of special cases as long as my arm, that means that I'm starting to understand what I'm doing. ;)
22:48 eythian        terrible! I mean, great! :)
22:48 jcamins        On Lucid, no less!
22:48 rangi          schweet
22:48 eythian        awesomecross :)
22:48 jcamins        eythian: I got Puppet to install Koha. :D
22:30 rangi          :)
22:29 eythian        I didn't see mtj spill anything either
22:28 wizzyrea       can't be counted on.
22:28 wizzyrea       but your barmates...
22:28 wizzyrea       just sayin... YOU might not spill the beer
22:28 eythian        It would be, yeah
22:27 jcamins        That seems like a shameful waste.
22:27 eythian        Only heathens spill beer
22:27 eythian        I tend not to spill beer.
22:27 rangi          hehe
22:25 wizzyrea       works on vomit :P
22:25 wizzyrea       you could put your transformer in a ziploc bag, that way drunken fllailing is guaranteed not to spill beer on it
22:25 * jcamins      has all his meetings with wine, but the idea is the same. ;)
22:24 * jcamins      agrees.
22:24 wizzyrea       I suppose you're right
22:24 eythian        with a pint is really the only way to do meetings :)
22:24 rangi          :)
22:23 wizzyrea       that would have been amusing
22:22 eythian        well had I remembered I could have just IRCed from there.
22:22 wizzyrea       keke
22:22 rangi          he made it back for the last half of the meeting at least :)
22:22 rangi          hehe
22:21 eythian        he's one to talk :)
22:21 rangi          chris_n2 ;)
22:21 rangi          eythian: mtj told us of your drunken escapades
22:18 chris_n2       my particular form of insanity has struck again ;-)
22:17 chris_n2       rangi: I'll fix it in the morning; dmake is happy again
22:13 eythian        yeah, I clean forgot about that too
22:09 Irma           sorry I missed the Koha meeting yesterday
22:09 Irma           G'day rangi
22:09 rangi          git mv oughta fix that chris_n2 :)
22:08 rangi          hi Irma
22:05 chris_n2       based on the naming pattern I think it should be 'archivalDVD.gif'
22:04 chris_n2       actually, that looks to be a typo
22:03 eythian        chris_n2: spaces in filenames are fine, but they somtimes require special handling and are often best avoided.
22:03 chris_n2       if there are no objections, I'll send along a patch to replace the space with an underscore
22:03 chris_n2       and it sends dmake (win32) into a tail spin
22:03 chris_n2       archival lDVD.gif
22:02 chris_n2       but here is one: http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=tree;f=koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/img/itemtypeimg/Seshat;h=429d7cd836fe78135b1ad9a196fdd2a8fc380850;hb=HEAD
22:02 * chris_n2     did not think that spaces in file names were legal
22:00 eythian        ah right
22:00 jcamins        Wait, idzebra is not in lucid. It's in maverick.
21:59 jcamins        Errr...
21:59 eythian        yeah, but what version?
21:59 eythian        not sure exactly
21:59 jcamins        eythian: ah. idzebra is in Lucid.
21:59 eythian        jcamins: idzebra, or something like that
21:58 jcamins        Which package was it required for?
21:58 chris_n2       naughty space in a filename
21:57 jcamins        Cool. I'll move that to the Ubuntu Lucid-only section of my Puppet config.
21:57 rangi          heh
21:56 eythian        rangi: heliosphere
21:56 jcamins        Ah.
21:56 rangi          it might be in the multiverse or cosmos or whatever the hell they call it
21:56 eythian        debian had an out of date one, but just before release they updated it.
21:56 jcamins_away   rangi: never mind, eythian answered.
21:56 rangi          yeah maybe only lucid
21:56 eythian        heh was just answering that
21:56 eythian        jcamins_away: I'm not sure about Lucid, but in Debian it's not necessary
21:56 jcamins_away   rangi: in what cases does one need to add the IndexData apt repository for installing Koha from packages?
21:55 huginn         eythian: The operation succeeded.
21:55 eythian        @later tell nengard your computer's clock is about 3 days out of date, just fyi
21:55 talljoy        lol
21:55 talljoy        i'll probably need it.
21:54 rangi          good luck
21:51 talljoy        thanks
21:51 talljoy        ok.  will try that.
21:50 rangi          should help you find it in the db
21:50 rangi          then you should get a line in the error log with the title in it
21:50 rangi          f ($titletype eq 'a') {
21:50 rangi          just before the
21:50 rangi          warn "title of dodgy record is $title";
21:49 rangi          do a
21:49 rangi          line 1219
21:49 rangi          its a record that doesnt have an 008
21:49 rangi          $pubyear   = substr $record->field('008')->data(), 7, 4;
21:48 talljoy        yes
21:48 rangi          this is master right?
21:48 rangi          2 secs ill do a snippet of code for ya
21:48 rangi          or better
21:48 rangi          before line 1220
21:47 rangi          C4/Biblio.pm
21:47 rangi          is put a warn in
21:47 talljoy        all ears, here.
21:47 rangi          what id do
21:47 talljoy        that's the 6 million dollar question
21:47 talljoy        lol
21:47 talljoy        which is?
21:47 rangi          yeah so its the next one in the set :)
21:46 talljoy        http://pastebin.com/8bt2kkd7
21:46 talljoy        and it returns a number of marc records and then after the last one pfffft. quits
21:46 talljoy        was running this command from the commandline...  perl $PERL5LIB/opac/opac-search.pl q='french'
21:45 talljoy        how can i see what is being returned if i only get an error in the opac?
21:44 rangi          oen with a zillion items
21:44 rangi          or it could be a really long record
21:44 rangi          one in the first 20 returned
21:44 talljoy        only takes one, i suppose.
21:44 talljoy        they have pretty straightforward callnumbers, don't know if that's it
21:42 jcamins_away   I have no idea why that's an issue, maybe sekjal can explain, but that screws things up majorly.
21:41 jcamins_away   Yeah.
21:41 jcamins_away   (if you have a limited number of possibilities it could be.
21:41 talljoy        in the callnumber?
21:41 jcamins_away   talljoy: look for a record with UTF-8 in the call number.
21:41 * rangi        too
21:41 * talljoy      wishes marc really was dead.
21:41 rangi          a bad marcxml
21:40 talljoy        thought so.  any ideas on how to track it down?
21:40 rangi          usually
21:40 rangi          yup
21:40 talljoy        is that referring to some bad marc?
21:40 talljoy        i am getting a "software error" when running a keyword search from the opac.  Can't call method "data" on an undefined value at /home/load11/kohaclone/C4/Biblio.pm line 1220.
21:40 rangi          sup talljoy ?
21:40 talljoy        hi all!
21:28 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6977 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, fcapovilla, NEW , Support for repeated subfields when importing an authority into a biblio record field.
21:28 jcamins_away   bug 6977
21:13 huginn         New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6979] LDAP authentication fails during password comparison <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6979>
20:38 chris_n2       its amazing where emoticons pop up
20:38 rangi          heh true
20:37 chris_n2       heh
20:37 chris_n2       we probably should remove H::T::P as a dependency in 3.6
20:35 rangi          lets just reinvent everything, including the terms
20:35 rangi          what is wrong with those kuali people
20:34 rangi          community source?
20:34 rangi          y
20:34 rangi          seriousl
20:34 rangi          hmm thursday alreday
20:27 cait           bye magnus_away :)
20:27 * magnuse      calls it a day
20:26 magnuse        hiya Tyree!
20:26 Tyree          ah good to know......
20:25 cait           hint: you can bribe rangi with chocolate and cookies
20:25 cait           hi Tyree :)
20:23 Tyree          Hi ya!
20:23 rangi          just showing her round
20:22 paul_p_        thanks !
20:22 rangi          paul_p_: fixed
20:22 rangi          Tyree has just started at catalyst, she is gonna be bossing me and robin around
20:21 rangi          doh, i cant believe i typoed that
20:18 paul_p_        rangi, my name is Poulain, not poulan (cf the news on k-c.org) + we usually spell BibLibre (not Biblibre)
20:15 rangi          :)
20:14 magnuse        blocking cookies?
20:11 * oleonard     quits before he gets into any more trouble
20:11 magnuse        lol
20:10 rangi          heh
20:10 * oleonard     sends an in-depth, well-argued, meticulously-documented answer
20:10 rangi          heh oleonard did :)
20:09 rangi          email about 3.8 away
20:09 rangi          im not touching that best ils email :)
20:07 chris_n        k, time to head home
20:06 rangi          random message to the mailing list
20:06 rangi          incoming
20:06 * cait         should have known that
20:06 rangi          sweet
20:06 * chris_n      posted the new channel info to the list
20:05 rangi          looks like cookies was the way to get ppl to talk on the mailing list ;)
20:05 rangi          heh
20:05 * chris_n      gets a kick out of huginn's news announcement: "New commit(s) kohanews:"
20:04 magnuse        yay!
20:04 rangi          done
20:04 * rangi        fixes
20:04 * rangi        makes stuff up
20:04 rangi          we do that
20:04 rangi          thats nz english
20:03 cait           finally :)
20:03 cait           oh cookies on themailing list
20:03 magnuse        rangi: this is nitpicking, but there seems to be two spaces here: "ownership of**a section"
20:03 rangi          ill email the list too now
20:03 magnuse        moahahah
20:03 rangi          let the tweeting commence
20:03 cait           why did noone stop me? :)
20:03 magnuse        hehe
20:03 rangi          lol busy cait
20:03 * cait         feels like it finally sinks in
20:02 cait           I actually volunteered to have 2 roles
20:02 cait           ok
20:02 rangi          hows that now?
20:02 rangi          :)
20:02 magnuse        many eyeballs etc ;-)
20:01 cait           comma after druart
20:01 magnuse        in the last sentence
20:01 rangi          ta
20:01 magnuse        ownership of [a] section
20:01 chris_n        did someone say the word 'volunteer'?
20:01 cait           rangi++
20:01 rangi          yeah ill update it to say that
20:00 magnuse        hehe
20:00 rangi          :)
20:00 rangi          sshhh
20:00 magnuse        i think chris_n only volunteered if no one else volunteers before 3.6 is released?
20:00 * rangi        fixes
20:00 rangi          i fail
20:00 rangi          ohh bad grammar in first sentence
19:59 rangi          http://koha-community.org/koha-3-8-0-release-team-elected/
19:59 rangi          proof read please
19:55 rangi          awesome!
19:55 maximep        rangi: thanks =). Yeah and we have a few more patches coming up soon!
19:52 rangi          i agree magnuse
19:51 magnuse        hoiw does that saying go? "be lenient in what data you consume and strict in what data you produce" or something? the norwegian national library is harvesting records and being very picky about what data should go where... they ought to be able to transform it themselves, i think
19:50 f18            the old ISIS system is dumb, because there was only the simplest way of book management and nothing more
19:48 f18            slef: thank you for your answer and sorry for my late response. But the records have the 952 tag, because I created it manually.
19:46 huginn         New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6978] Notify the user on his account page when it is almost expired. <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6978>
19:44 magnuse        yay!
19:41 * rangi        will write a blog post on koha-community and email links to it
19:40 magnuse        moahaha
19:40 rangi          dangit
19:40 * rangi        realises that by asking he probably just volunteered
19:40 rangi          so who is gonna write up the election results?
19:39 rangi          some good stuff coming from libéo
19:39 magnuse        and just the one who asked is benefiting from the answer
19:38 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6978 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, fcapovilla, NEW , Notify the user on his account page when it is almost expired.
19:38 rangi          oh i like bug 6978
19:38 magnuse        yeah, that's a bit of a shame
19:38 rangi          so its less obvious that people are getting answers
19:38 rangi          see thats the problem too, ppl answer offlist
19:38 oleonard       magnuse: I just got onto the fulfillment-general list and it doesn't look like there's been any posts since Nov. 2010
19:37 magnuse        got a direct one from texas too!
19:37 magnuse        yay
19:35 rangi          woo darla answered go alaska!
19:33 * magnuse      hates grammar, loves english... ;-)
19:32 * magnuse      's eyes glaze over...
19:31 oleonard       English suffers from the lack of a second person plural pronoun
19:31 rangi          heh
19:30 magnuse        or did you mean daft? ;-)
19:30 magnuse        oleonard: how was that deft?
19:30 magnuse        i have tried to join the mailinglist several times, but i never get the promised confirmation message
19:29 rangi          heh
19:27 * oleonard     applaud's magnuse's deft use of "y'all" in his list message
19:25 * oleonard     wonders why the mailing list archive is private
19:25 * oleonard     was just asked about that yesterday
19:23 magnuse        someone might want to update http://fulfillment-ill.org/ a little - "When completed in about two years" - just sayin' ;-)
19:22 magnuse        gmcharlt++
19:21 chris_n        huginn++
19:21 chris_n        nice
19:21 rangi          cool
19:21 rangi          hmm will someone answer magnuse I wonder ;)
19:21 gmcharlt       ok, it should now be set up to announce website posts in #koha-news on FreeNode
19:20 magnuse        yay
19:20 chris_n        very
19:20 rangi          cool :)
19:19 huginn         gmcharlt: community.org/koha-3-4-2/> / Koha Newsletter: Volume 2/Issue 6: June 2011 <http://koha-community.org/koha-newsletter-volume-2issue-6-june-2011/>
19:19 gmcharlt       @more
19:19 huginn         gmcharlt: Dates for 3.6.0 <http://koha-community.org/key-dates-3-6-0/> / Koha Newsletter: Volume 2/Issue 7: July 2011 <http://koha-community.org/koha-newsletter-volume-2issue-7-july-2011/> / Koha 3.4.3 is now available <http://koha-community.org/koha-3-4-3/> / KohaCon11 – programme ideas wanted <http://koha-community.org/kohacon11-programme-ideas-wanted/> / Koha 3.4.2 is now available <http://koha- (1 more message)
19:19 gmcharlt       @more
19:19 huginn         gmcharlt: Koha 3.4.5 is now available <http://koha-community.org/koha-3-4-5/> / Koha Newsletter: Volume 2/Issue 9: September 2011 <http://koha-community.org/koha-newsletter-volume-2issue-9-september-2011/> / Koha Newsletter: Volume 2/Issue 8: August 2011 <http://koha-community.org/koha-newsletter-volume-2issue-8-august-2011/> / Koha 3.4.4 is now available <http://koha-community.org/koha-3-4-4/> / Key (2 more messages)
19:19 gmcharlt       @kohanews
19:17 ropuch         There was third option to uploading file in pootle (beside Merge & add conflict as suggestions and Add all new traslation aas suggestion), right?
19:17 cait           hi chris_n :)
19:14 * chris_n      greets cait
19:04 cait           :)
19:04 magnus_afk     guten abend cait
19:04 rangi          hi cait
19:03 cait           hi all :)
19:02 * magnus_afk   saw someone mentioning it in the scrollback...
18:58 rangi          I was just trying to remember the name of it last night!
18:58 rangi          how did the halva discussion come up?
18:54 * magnus_afk   has 2 kinds of halva in his fridge
18:52 rangi          hopefully im wrong
18:52 rangi          I suspect not
18:52 rangi          would have to look at the code
18:52 rangi          right I guess we could page through them all?
18:52 oleonard       I guess the question is whether you can pass a limit to the search and get only page two of the results
18:51 oleonard       warn $numresults; -> 759
18:51 oleonard       Well the z39.50 search definitely returns more than 20 results
18:42 huginn         New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6975] OPACBaseURL called as OPACBaseurl in many templates <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6975>
18:38 slef           bbl
18:38 slef           f18: if not, use something to edit the file to map whatever you do have (852 most often; sometimes 942 or 999) to 952.
18:38 slef           f18: check if your ISIS export has any 952 tags. 9xx fields are local use, layout specific to Koha.
18:32 rangi          i know it probaby returns more results than it shows
18:32 rangi          im not sure
18:31 oleonard       Is it true that there *are* additional pages of search results?
18:31 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5044 normal, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , should be able to page through z39.50 search results
18:31 oleonard       Bug 5044
18:25 chris_n        wajasu: the topic for that channel does that
18:19 f18            *too
18:19 f18            hi everyone! I'd like to import MARC21 records from an old ISIS-system and succeed, but I cannot find my records afterwards in the search/catalogue. I guess there is a problem with the 952 tag (LOCATION AND ITEM INFORMATION), because after the import I can "open" the record and view the tags (under the button "import this batch into the catalog") ... but 952 is missing? if my question is to weired, please tell me.
18:16 slef           http://skoulikas.com/sesame.htm is the better one
18:14 sekjal         jcamins_away: 6977 looks up your alley
18:08 huginn         New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6977] Support for repeated subfields when importing an authority into a biblio record field. <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6977>
18:08 slef           Halva is nice, prefer to avoid the stuff from occupied territories that is on sale in the UK.
17:34 rhcl           time to get back to MLA
17:33 * jcamins_away leaves for real this time.
17:33 jcamins_away   Mostly very tasty.
17:33 jcamins_away   There are tons of varieties, though.
17:33 jcamins_away   (I can't find pictures of the latter two)
17:33 jcamins_away   The balls with sesame seeds on them.
17:33 jcamins_away   Semolina halva.
17:30 jcamins_away   Tahini halva with pistachio.
17:30 jcamins_away   (there are some pictures)
17:29 jcamins_away   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halva
17:29 rhcl           here we go
17:29 jcamins_away   The traditional varieties are...
17:29 rhcl           see, what'd I tell ya?
17:28 jcamins_away   Actually, that's just the Arabic word for candy.
17:28 jcamins_away   Mmmm. Halwa.
17:28 rhcl           Wolfram Alpha tells me EggD is 9�F below the optimal temperature for eating halavah. And jcamins is the Wolfram Alpha of food who can tell us what the heck halavah is. Firefox needs a jcamins search engine plugin.
17:24 huginn         slef: The current temperature in Bicester, United Kingdom is 18.0�C (6:05 PM BST on October 05, 2011). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: 16.0�C. Pressure: 29.77 in 1008.0 hPa (Falling).
17:24 slef           @wunder EgBT
17:24 huginn         slef: Error: No such location could be found.
17:24 slef           @wunder EgBV
17:23 huginn         slef: The current temperature in Edinburgh Airport, United Kingdom is 15.0�C (5:50 PM BST on October 05, 2011). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 12.0�C. Pressure: 29.44 in 997 hPa (Steady).
17:23 slef           @wunder EgPH
17:21 huginn         slef: The current temperature in Bristol Airport, United Kingdom is 16.0�C (5:50 PM BST on October 05, 2011). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 15.0�C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa (Steady).
17:21 slef           @wunder EggD
17:20 huginn         collum: The current temperature in Erlanger, Kentucky is 22.8�C (1:18 PM EDT on October 05, 2011). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 53%. Dew Point: 13.0�C. Pressure: 30.29 in 1025.6 hPa (Rising).
17:20 collum         @wunder 41017
17:19 slef           I actually think this is worse than facebook. At least people sign up for facebook, even if they have trouble resigning from it.
17:18 slef           evil buggers creating pseuds for people without asking, trying to track us.
17:18 slef           I get ranty about that. Freedom of association is a human right, including freedom not to associate.
17:14 slef           I remember https://launchpad.net/~slef https://launchpad.net/~mjr and I think there are other accounts for me there, only one of which admits it's an autocreate. I don't remember what it does if you contact me through launchpad on any of them.
17:12 magnuse        slef: noted
17:12 oleonard       slef: sysprefs.sql sets the default minimum password length to 3
17:12 slef           launchpad is bad because it creates accounts for developers without their consent, without telling them, without any way to opt out.
17:11 huginn         magnuse: The operation succeeded.
17:11 magnuse        @later tell jcamins https://launchpad.net/~koha
17:11 slef           boo launchpad
17:11 magnuse        jcamins_away: here: https://launchpad.net/~koha PPAs for Stable and Development
17:10 slef           yeah, but by default
17:10 oleonard       the length of the suggested password is defined by your minimum password length system pref
17:10 slef           oleonard: aren't they only 4-chars?
17:07 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5280 normal, P5, ---, cnighswonger, ASSIGNED , Fix password field in members.pl so that the password is masked as it is entered
17:07 * oleonard     is considering doing away with it in conjunction with changes related to Bug 5280
17:02 oleonard       does anyone actually use the randomly generated password suggestions when updating a password?
17:01 huginn         jcamins: The operation succeeded.
17:01 jcamins        @later tell eythian Is there any instance in which it is necessary to add the IndexData apt repo to your /etc/apt/sources.list.d/, or is that just stale information at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_Lucid_using_Koha_packages?
17:01 magnuse        i'm trying to find the link i'm thinking of...
17:01 jcamins        http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_Lucid_using_Koha_packages
17:00 magnuse        which instructions?
17:00 jcamins        magnuse: yeah, but the instructions for installing the packages on Lucid say to add the apt line.
16:59 jcamins        Hm. idzebra is on Lucid, too.
16:59 magnuse        rangi has some packages for ubuntu...
16:58 jcamins        Must just be on Lucid?
16:58 jcamins        magnuse: oh...
16:57 magnuse        jcamins: i don't think you have to worry about indexdata when you install from packages?
16:55 jcamins        Well, it doesn't hurt anything to have that apt line in there, anyway.
16:54 jcamins        Or just older versions?
16:54 jcamins        Do you have to do that for all versions of Debian and Ubuntu?
16:53 wizzyrea       prominent
16:53 wizzyrea       you can make that online access link more prominint
16:53 wizzyrea       and especially since we can now modify the css for xslt in opacusercss
16:53 jcamins        Wait... when do you need to add the IndexData apt line?
16:52 wizzyrea       you download it :P
16:52 wizzyrea       there is a copy available for reference
16:52 wizzyrea       yea i'm not sure how to deal with that exactly -- technically that's correct
16:52 magnuse        yup, i know ;-)
16:52 oleonard       Of course paul_p_ has been with us longer than Biblibre has existed
16:51 wizzyrea       later paul_p
16:51 magnuse        but happy birthday biblibre, anyway! and wow, that means biblibre was just 1 year old when i started to get involved with koha
16:51 paul_p_        so, good bye everybody & see you tomorrow !
16:50 nengard_lunch  maybe we need the authorized value to show on the results instead of the string 'reference'
16:50 paul_p_        magnuse, lol
16:50 magnuse        paul_p_: probably a mixed blessing kind of a gift ;-)
16:50 nengard_lunch  that's what she meant
16:50 nengard_lunch  yup
16:50 nengard_lunch  Copies available for reference: NEKLS HQ [eBook] (1).
16:50 wizzyrea       copies available for reference
16:50 wizzyrea       ah yea the same
16:50 oleonard       http://catalog.nexpresslibrary.org/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?q=jane+eyre+gutenberg&limit=
16:50 nengard_lunch  wizzyrea what does it say on the search reuslts
16:50 wizzyrea       of download
16:49 wizzyrea       yea, it's a not for loan value
16:49 magnuse        jcamins: ah sorry, i was connecting your utterances the wrong way... congrats!
16:49 paul_p_        thx jcamins to remind me that it's BibLibre 4th birthday those days. Should I consider having been choosen as next RM as a birthday gift ? (Is it a gift at all in fact ?)
16:49 wizzyrea       let me see how she did that
16:49 wizzyrea       status "download:
16:48 jcamins        magnuse: no, I got it working. :)
16:48 wizzyrea       for example
16:48 wizzyrea       http://catalog.nexpresslibrary.org/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=464981
16:48 paul_p_        time to leave... bye & see you tomorrow (my) morning !
16:48 magnuse        jcamins: you'll get it right next time!
16:48 wizzyrea       it's not reference, it's electronic
16:47 wizzyrea       so you have a dummy item
16:47 jcamins        rhcl: not nearly.
16:47 jcamins        It has not. Not that this would have been wasted effort, anyway. Understanding what I'm doing is always a good thing.
16:47 * wizzyrea     checks
16:47 wizzyrea       or something
16:47 wizzyrea       of "electronic"
16:47 wizzyrea       nengard: i think NEKLS solved that with a new authorized value
16:45 magnuse        i'm having trouble importing patrons - does anyone know off hand if Tools > Import Patrons handles windows line endings properly or not?
16:45 * jcamins      checks the Ubuntu website, more-than-half-expecting to find that that Lucid has been replaced as the LTS.
16:44 rhcl           jcamins is a puppet master then?
16:43 magnuse        yay!
16:43 jcamins        Woohoo! I think I just got Puppet to install Koha on Ubuntu Lucid from the packages!
16:41 magnuse        and free software has some benefits that are far from philosophical
16:41 magnuse        hehe
16:40 slef           if you don't believe in sharing information on a philosophical level, why become a librarian?
16:39 slef           worth stealing the quote rhcl mentined but bleah at the one magnuse gave
16:29 oleonard       It could have easily been "Evaluating software" and talked about the factors which should be considered when evaluating proprietary *and* open source software.
16:27 oleonard       Not much to that article.
16:26 magnuse        "I�m still a big believer in open source software, but I don�t want to see libraries choosing software solely for philosophical reasons."
16:25 magnuse        yay, thanks!
16:24 nengard        Farkas, Meredith. ?Open Source, Open Mind.? American Libraries. Technology in Practice (September 27, 2011). http://americanlibrariesmagazine.org/columns/practice/open-source-open-mind.
16:24 rhcl           magnuse: don't know, let me see if they have a link.
16:24 rhcl           Quote: "Some open source projects, like Koha, have a strong community of open source developers who are improving the code..."
16:23 magnuse        is it online?
16:23 rhcl           Interesting article by Meredith Farkas in the Sept/Oct issue of American Libraries--ostensibly advocating OSS and mentioning Koha, but then quasi-promoting proprietary software "if it's better"
16:16 oleonard       I'm not sure how you define the conditions under which the availability doesn't show
16:15 nengard        right they don't want it to say 'reference'
16:14 oleonard       http://search.myacpl.org/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?idx=kw&idx=kw&idx=kw&limit=mc-ccode%3ADNLD&sort_by=relevance&do=Search
16:13 oleonard       nengard: In the XSL view we get a "connect to title online" link, but we also have a "copies available for reference" line because we have a dummy item attached
16:12 oleonard       that's an issue we face as well
16:12 jcamins        Ah.
16:11 nengard        the user has ebooks listed as 'not for loan' and so they say copies available for reference - i thought there was something about not showing 'no items available' and showing the link fro the 856 (I know that's a bit different but it was related)
16:10 nengard        sorry - distracted
16:07 jcamins        nengard: what are you trying to do?
16:06 nengard        not sure ?
16:06 jcamins        Ooh, IndexData's gpg key is about to expire.
16:02 jcamins        nengard: you mean AlternateHoldings?
16:01 nengard        hello all, i'm vaguely remembering a bug report (enhancement) about the availablilty note on the search results for online materials ? does anyone know the bug number on this?
15:58 reiveune       bye
15:56 magnuse        i'll write an intro to the mail list or the newsletter when i get the time...
15:55 slef           magnuse: interesting. Thanks. I'll mention it sometime.
15:54 oakivil        thanks yous
15:54 oakivil        ok
15:53 jcamins        oakivil: MARC authority records.
15:53 oakivil        What kind of data*
15:53 oakivil        What kind of daat does the bulkauthimport.pl eat?
15:53 oakivil        Hello #Koha
15:52 * slef         fires up the fish
15:52 magnuse        http://www.bibliotekforum.no/article.php?id=2654 an article from one of the online library journals
15:50 magnuse        not much there yet
15:50 magnuse        donum.no
15:50 magnuse        well, almost...
15:50 slef           got link?
15:50 slef           no, missed that while I was off ill!
15:49 magnuse        did you hear norway got it's koha/free software for libraries organization about a week ago, and it's a co-op?
15:48 slef           I think it's something like 10% of our resources went on that last year... in Italy, there's a legal requirement for co-ops to help co-ops but it's only 3% I think.
15:47 slef           I think that's what it's for, anyway. Someone says to us "help co-ops?" and we often say "yes."
15:46 slef           all the main political parties here say they love co-ops, including the coalition partners, but we've seen little support yet
15:46 magnuse        ah
15:46 slef           some co-op political promo I think
15:45 magnuse        and what's the publication?
15:45 slef           touch-typing doesn't mean I can spell.
15:45 magnuse        hehe
15:45 slef           the
15:45 slef           (they letters are half-worn away)
15:45 slef           heh, if you zoom in on the bamboo keyboard you can tell I touch type! ;-)
15:44 slef           laptop keyboard is unavoidable, phone keyboard is for texting, bamboo keyboard is for when I'm only typing, cykey is for when I'm editing
15:43 magnuse        ah, that should be ok then ;-)
15:42 slef           magnuse: you can't see the fourth one because I'm in the way
15:42 magnuse        btw: sure you have enough keyboards around?
15:42 slef           photosharing websites defeat me
15:42 magnuse        hehe
15:42 slef           bleah
15:42 slef           oh that's no better
15:41 slef           oh and the i.
15:41 slef           3mb download oops. Delete the .jpg for a preview I think
15:40 magnuse        slef: yay!
15:36 slef           [off] http://i.imgur.com/uhVQz.jpg publicity shot of me for new publication
15:26 wizzyrea       sorry :(
15:26 magnus_afk     can't catch 'em all...
15:26 sekjal         let this be a lesson:  this is what happens when you rush testing
15:25 sekjal         yeah, I should have done a better job QAing that
15:25 oleonard       ...the patch of unintended consequences...
15:19 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6576 critical, PATCH-Sent, ---, srdjan, ASSIGNED , changing framework while cataloging looses data
15:19 wizzyrea       bug 6576
15:18 sekjal         I'm asking the original developer of bugfix 6576
15:17 * oleonard     has no idea
15:15 sekjal         not sure what the side effects are, though
15:15 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6974 major, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , MARC21 Leader plugin no longer auto-fills the 000 field
15:15 sekjal         oleonard:  commenting out line 1041 of cataloguing/addbiblio.pl seems to fix bug 6974
15:10 magnus_afk     yay!
15:09 paul_p_        french 100% done !
15:09 paul_p_        strike : http://translate.koha-community.org/fr/34/ thx fredericd for taking care of what was still pending !!!
15:08 sekjal         paul_p_:  yes, it's in the queue for QA
15:08 paul_p_        sekjal, have you seen my mail about "fines in days" patch waiting for QA ? PLEASE QA it !
15:07 paul_p_        pfiou... 5PM here, and I haven't started what I wanted to do today (except irc meeting)
15:07 sekjal         ugh, no, that default 000 value was in there the whole time; the patch only altered the way the params were called
15:07 jcamins        I'm not sure why I didn't think of it immediately, but sometimes it takes a moment.
15:06 jcamins        Yeah, after a moment I realized how to do it. :)
15:03 slef           for completeness
15:03 slef           jcamins: if ($moo =~ m/^${stem}/) { ... }
15:02 jcamins        Actually, never mind.
15:01 jcamins        Okay... anyone know how to check if a string *starts* with another string in Perl?
15:00 sekjal         TransformHTMLtoMARC getting called too early, thus creating a value, thus preventing the JS from working as intended
14:59 sekjal         now that TransformHTMLtoMARC creates a default 000, perhaps it's an order of operations issue
14:59 sekjal         ...idea
14:54 oleonard       after: 00848    a2200313   4500
14:54 oleonard       before: 00848nam a2200313   4500
14:54 oleonard       After saving the existing record, the 000 field is similar to but not exactly what it was before
14:54 oleonard       I made a note of the value of 000 in the existing record, then copied the auto-filled spaces from the blank record into the existing one
14:53 oleonard       sekjal: Here's a test I just did. I opened both an existing record and a blank record for editing
14:49 sekjal         oleonard:  yes
14:49 oleonard       Ah, I see... if you clear the field and click back into it?
14:49 oleonard       Overwrites the existing data?
14:48 sekjal         I'm also finding that it auto-fills if I EDIT a record (just not if I create a new one)
14:48 * oleonard     didn't think it did... will test again
14:44 sekjal         oleonard:  the 000 field does seem to correctly generate on save
14:38 jcamins        wizzyrea: ewww. I'm sorry.
14:38 wizzyrea       yes, yes I did.
14:38 jcamins        wizzyrea: did you just try this?
14:38 oleonard       Man, Jane's Addiction played a terrible set at vomitpalooza.
14:37 trea           checking now ;)
14:37 trea           that was my next step jcamins, before vomitpalooza
14:36 wizzyrea       problem solved.
14:36 wizzyrea       the good news: it still works inside a ziploc bag.
14:36 wizzyrea       the bad news, the kid puked on the tablet
14:36 wizzyrea       getting puke on your tablet won't kill it
14:36 wizzyrea       the good news, for you parents with tablets
14:33 kf             bye all :)
14:32 wajasu         chris_n: maybe someone can set the topic on the freenode koha to point them to connect to the irc.oftc.net koha.
14:32 wizzyrea       I think this has something to do with the layout or the template
14:28 jcamins        trea: have you checked whether the behavior is the same on Master?
14:21 trea           I've checked the callnumbers of both items in question, and they are exactly the same. So i'm inclined to believe it may have something to do with the template as you've suggested.
14:20 trea           http://screencast.com/t/tjM7k74vaC0T
14:18 trea           stand by
14:18 wizzyrea       (how is it doing it wrong)
14:18 wizzyrea       what's the question
14:17 wizzyrea       as it's marked fixed
14:17 wizzyrea       but that may not be your issue
14:17 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3120 enhancement, P5, ---, gmcharlt, RESOLVED FIXED, Dewey call numbers not splitting correctly on spine labels
14:17 wizzyrea       bug 3120
14:16 wizzyrea       the label template
14:15 trea           k
14:15 wizzyrea       that *might* have to do with the template
14:15 wizzyrea       1s
14:15 wizzyrea       hmm, possibly
14:15 trea           adding too many spaces or anything like that?
14:15 trea           anyone seen a bug with the label creator not splitting callnumbers correctly?
14:13 * oleonard     tested in IE8
14:12 sekjal         works on Chromium 12, too
14:11 sekjal         at least, on FF7
14:11 sekjal         okay, it works
14:10 sekjal         whoops
14:09 oleonard       did you shift-reload to make sure your basket.js was updated?
14:09 sekjal         oleonard:  still cannot log out
14:07 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6974 major, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , MARC21 Leader plugin no longer auto-fills the 000 field
14:07 * oleonard     files Bug 6974
14:06 sekjal         thanks, oleonard, was just reading
14:05 oleonard       Try that sekjal
14:05 huginn         New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6970] logout not redirecting to login page <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6970>
13:51 clrh           hello magnuse and all
13:45 trea           magnuse, hi. o/
13:45 magnuse        hiya clrh and trea
13:39 sekjal         yes, a logoutBasket function, the same but for those two lines, would be a way to solve it
13:36 * oleonard     will tinker
13:36 oleonard       It doesn't mean we couldn't have a different function tied to logout
13:36 oleonard       Yeah, commenting out those lines breaks the "empty and close" option in the cart
13:33 sekjal         oleonard:  sure will
13:33 oleonard       sekjal: Are you willing to look at our leader auto-fill problem?
13:33 sekjal         my testing showed that commenting out the lines did allow logout, and anything in the Cart when I logged out was gone when I logged back in
13:32 sekjal         yes, any testing you can do would be appreciated.  Not being able to log out is... bad
13:32 oleonard       That's off the top of my head, but I'd be happy to test if you'd like.
13:31 oleonard       And the redirect to about:blank I thought might have been put there to ensure there was an http transaction to set the cookie?
13:30 oleonard       the window.close() is used by the cart popup isn't it?
13:30 oleonard       I don't think we can just remove those lines if that's what you mean
13:29 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6970 major, P5, ---, oleonard, NEW , logout not redirecting to login page
13:29 sekjal         oleonard: do you have any comments on bug 6970?
13:29 oleonard       Soon we will control the horizontal and the vertical
13:29 kf             cool :)
13:27 chris_n        we also control #koha on freenode now as a backup in case anyone missed the earlier announcement
13:27 chris_n        mtj++
13:25 magnuse        mtj++
13:25 mtj            if anyone wants admin access...? ping me ;)
13:25 mtj            http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.com/Koha-f3047917.subapps.html
13:24 mtj            ... and will hopefully sort an historic mail-import very soon :)
13:23 mtj            http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.com/
13:23 mtj            fyi:  we now have admin access again - on the nabble Koha lists
13:19 magnuse        yay
13:15 slef           magnuse: http://www.solfest.org.uk too it seems
13:14 slef           http://facet.me.uk/?p=246 is my favourite recent one
13:13 magnuse        "solfest"? that's norwegian! ;-)
13:12 slef           http://facet.me.uk/ is his personal homepage.
13:11 magnuse        ah ha!
13:11 slef           he's based in Edinburgh, which was part of the reason for proposing that city
13:11 magnuse        ah, cool
13:11 magnuse        (oops, accept the proposal, i mean)
13:10 slef           another member of the co-op
13:10 magnuse        mle?
13:10 magnuse        i'm ready to propose a talk when you are ready to accept it ;-)
13:10 slef           I like that step because mle is in charge of it. The later ones will be more work for me ;)
13:09 magnuse        sounds like a good plan!
13:09 slef           sure... first choice will be to nail down a venue to some dates
13:07 magnuse        hehe, you can do it! ;-)
13:07 slef           magnuse: scary!
13:05 magnuse        slef: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Category:KohaCon12 is all yours now ;-)
13:00 slef           thd: see http://search.cpan.org/~shancock/Perl-Tidy-20101217/bin/perltidy#Line_Break_Control
12:59 thd            ?
12:59 thd            slef: what I meant is how are forced line breaks in an overly long line treated in terms of indentation or lack thereof.
12:59 magnuse        slef: i don't see any harm in that
12:58 slef           Wasn't the aim to start the 2013 process soon after kohacon 2011 has closed?
12:58 thd            manguse: more vigorous discussion on the mailing list.
12:58 wizzyrea       aight -- time to get ready 4 work nd stuffs
12:57 thd            manguse: more lead time.
12:57 slef           thd: 80 char I think
12:57 magnuse        any suggestions for better publicizing?
12:57 oleonard       We didn't have the whole Asian continent spreading the word ;)
12:56 thd            oleonard: The ballot was not as well publicised as in the past and attracted few votes.
12:56 oleonard       June would be fantastic for me: summer vacation for the family, they can all come along.
12:56 magnuse        is looking forward to meeting oleonard and lots of other people
12:56 * oleonard     is sad to miss two in a row
12:56 * magnuse      does a little happydance
12:56 oleonard       Excellent. I'm definitely trying to make that one.
12:55 thd            oleonard: Yes overwhelmingly in favour of slef.
12:55 oleonard       Oh slef, did you get the official nod for KohaCon 2012?
12:54 thd            slef: how does the perl style treat long line wrapping?
12:54 slef           go watch whatever pages you like
12:54 slef           wiki pages updated
12:47 * Brooke       can no longer resist the siren call of the nap
12:46 magnuse        slef++
12:46 slef           ok I'm linking the minutes
12:46 jcamins        Brooke: ah. I thought it was at 5am EST for some reason.
12:45 Brooke         and the bulk in like 2h.
12:45 Brooke         2.75 jcamins
12:45 mtj            well done all, we got there in the end :)
12:45 jcamins        Did the meeting really last 3:40, or did I have the start time confused?
12:44 magnuse        hear hear
12:44 oleonard       thanks to all who stayed up late or got up early for this monster meeting
12:43 magnuse        yay - 2 and 3/4 hour!
12:43 slef           thd: no comment ;-)
12:43 * thd          is not sensibly awake now.
12:43 paul_p_        ok, have a good morning, good afternoon, good night, good TV, good lunch, good breakfast, good whatever !
12:42 slef           thd: indeed. hard to be sensibly awake 2-4 and then 8-22
12:42 paul_p_        ++
12:42 huginn         Log:            http://librarypolice.com/koha-meetings/2011/koha.2011-10-05-10.00.log.html
12:42 huginn         Minutes (text): http://librarypolice.com/koha-meetings/2011/koha.2011-10-05-10.00.txt
12:42 huginn         Minutes:        http://librarypolice.com/koha-meetings/2011/koha.2011-10-05-10.00.html
12:42 huginn         Meeting ended Wed Oct  5 12:41:42 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
12:42 Brooke         #endmeeting
12:42 Brooke         #agreed next meeting 16 November 2 UTC
12:42 Brooke         going gone
12:42 thd            slef: The hours would not conflict but I assume that your sleep would.
12:42 Brooke         going twice
12:42 Brooke         going noce
12:42 mtj            paul_p_:  omg - i am happy to reach a decision on this topic, thats all :)
12:41 Brooke         16 November 2 UTC
12:41 Brooke         barring objections
12:41 slef           but don't let that stop you
12:41 slef           yeah, I won't make that. Big co-op planning meeting at 11 UTC, probably including kohacon2012
12:40 thd            +1 16th
12:40 mtj            paul_p_:  just joking  - i dont mind at all :)
12:40 paul_p_        16th++ for me (not 9th pls, i'll be jet lagged !)
12:39 paul_p_        slef, yes :(((
12:39 Brooke         given the pattern should be
12:39 slef           is this the 2am UTC one?
12:39 Brooke         that way it's after KohaCon?
12:39 Brooke         how about 16thish Nov?
12:38 Brooke         #topic time and date of next meeting
12:38 slef           naughty no-one, double-voting
12:38 slef           I think standings are: no-style: no-one; perlstyle: paul_p_, ColinC, slef, mtj; pbp: (some 2nd prefs); gnu: (some 2nd prefs); koha: no-one; (any style: oleonard, kf, sekjal, wizzyrea, jwagner)
12:38 mtj            and perl-style it is!!!!!!
12:38 paul_p_        mtj, why omg ?
12:38 Brooke         #agreed perl-style
12:37 mtj            making perl-style the winner oMg?!?
12:37 paul_p_        ok, so all of you vote for the option that has the most votes already ;-)
12:37 magnuse        any style so long as it's consistent is fine by me too
12:37 Brooke         so then perl style has the most support, yes?
12:37 jwagner        I'll go with any style if consistent
12:37 mtj            ok, can i change to be perl-style? :p
12:37 wizzyrea       any-consistent-style++
12:37 sekjal         slef:  yes, any style so long as it's consistent is fine by me
12:37 slef           any more mistakes/omissions?
12:36 slef           as is sekjal I think
12:36 kf             yep
12:36 slef           ok, so oleonard and kf are any-style
12:36 kf             sorry for causing confusion
12:36 kf             not no-style - I agree with any style as long it's consistent
12:36 slef           kf: how?
12:36 kf             slef: wrong
12:36 slef           have I missed anyone?
12:36 Brooke         if we come up with a survey for it
12:36 slef           I think standings are: no-style: kf, jwagner; perlstyle: paul_p_, ColinC, slef; pbp: mtj (+some 2nd prefs); gnu: (some 2nd prefs); koha: no-one
12:36 kf             but irc might not be the right place
12:36 Brooke         ooh cool idea
12:36 mtj            and the winner is.... ?
12:36 Brooke         that's what we're trying to do kf
12:36 kf             to vote? like for the conference?
12:35 kf             ok, perhaps we have to have a vote about this? using a tool?
12:35 * kf           is confused
12:35 thd            However, I really do not mean no-style.  I mean some other style.
12:35 mtj            if not... could slef calculate the winner, please?
12:34 thd            perl style second
12:34 thd            no-style yet first
12:34 slef           thd: that's another option that no-one has yet proposed. Anyone could have, but I assume it has no advocate.
12:34 mtj            ok...... anyone else??
12:33 thd            Brooke: none of the above would be a style which we have not yet considered.  Some modified koha style.
12:33 slef           thd: none of the above would be effectively for current practice, which we have to conclude from mtj's great work on the examples is no-style.
12:33 oleonard       sekjal's point 2 is important considering the trouble whitespace changes cause patch comprehension
12:33 kf             sekjal++
12:33 mtj            slef: oops! :p
12:33 paul_p_        wizzyrea, lol, but so true !!!
12:33 thd            Brooke: none of the above would not be no style.
12:33 sekjal         I don't particular care what styling we use, so long as 1) it's consistent in each script (so incoming patches follow existing style), and 2) any style-only changes are independently submitted from functionality changes
12:33 slef           heh, php
12:32 wizzyrea       pick-and-dictate++
12:32 mtj            php, then perl-style for me
12:32 oleonard       some-style++, no-style--
12:32 Brooke         thd a bunch have said no style
12:32 kf             is my vote, don't know enough to compare, but I am all for consistency
12:32 kf             not no-style ?
12:32 thd            slef: I still think there is a none of the above missing.
12:32 paul_p_        perl-style++, then pbp
12:32 slef           mtj: I'm taking this as an approval vote, seeing as no-one wants a preference vote.
12:32 Brooke         he called for a preference
12:31 mtj            slef:  thats 2 votes love ;)
12:31 jwagner        no-style++
12:31 slef           (if we're going to do it approvalwise)
12:31 mtj            ah, and option number 5 is ... no style!!!!!
12:31 slef           gnu++
12:31 slef           perl-style++
12:31 wahanui        okay, thd.
12:31 thd            I am also concerned that indentation styles which do not collapse in vim lead to overly long lines which cannot always be broken across multiple lines.
12:31 ColinC         perl-style++
12:30 Brooke         one for pbp if you've got a favourite style please mod it up so we can get out of here
12:30 mtj            options are: pbp, perl-style, gnu/gcs, koha-style
12:30 paul_p_        slef++ for figuring out transition later
12:30 slef           Figure out transition later.
12:30 kf             don't have no decision
12:30 mtj            pbp++
12:30 paul_p_        well, not sure until we don't know the options !
12:30 kf             but make thing smoving
12:29 kf             perhaps we should have a vote
12:29 slef           I move we take a preference vote for a style now, Condorcet with IRV.
12:29 sekjal         sorry, was afk
12:29 Brooke         propose summat to vote on
12:29 jwagner        what is the motion on the floor?
12:29 kf             if we can't come to a decision here
12:29 mtj            ... everyone ready to vote now?
12:29 ColinC         thd++
12:29 paul_p_        sekjal, anytihng to say ?
12:29 thd            I am a great advocate for consistency, however, I am concerned that systematic use of tidy without any other reason to modify a file will complicate tracing code changes.
12:29 * Brooke       is subtle like a brick.
12:28 Brooke         decide.
12:28 Brooke         HINT
12:28 Brooke         it's almost over owen
12:28 * oleonard     boggles at the long meeting
12:28 slef           I'd also need to tell it a method: Condorcet with IRC, UK Usenet and Schulze seem the most likely, but it might have your favourite.
12:28 paul_p_        ColinC, not everybody uses vim or emacs, & we want to lower the barriers !
12:27 slef           Just a note: I have voteengine working here. I can evaluate a preference vote if you wish, but I'd need to give instructions on how to vote :)
12:26 ColinC         paul_p you can filter lines via perltidy easy to do in vim and emacs
12:26 paul_p_        thd, I would say yes, (but don't ask why ;-) )
12:26 thd            paul_p: Does consistency of indentation matter outside an individual file?
12:26 paul_p_        (ie: everything is blamed to the perltidy patch)
12:25 Brooke         not a bad idea once a decade...
12:25 paul_p_        ColinC, not history, but make git blame being confused.
12:25 paul_p_        thd, that's my question
12:25 ColinC         reformatting the entire code base loses history
12:25 paul_p_        ColinC, how can you run on changed lines only ?
12:25 paul_p_        Brooke, there were no rule for 10 years, so jwagner is right to ask. But I think it's good to have consistency though.
12:25 thd            paul_p_: Will we be systematically reformatting the entire code base?
12:25 wizzyrea       (and does tidying 40 lines of thousands make it better or worse?)
12:24 ColinC         no you can run it on your changed lines only
12:24 thd            paul_p_: I agree that consistency is important.  However, how much consistency is important relative to other things.
12:24 paul_p_        sekjal, OK. But if I submit a patch of, say 40 lines, how can I perltidy those 40 lines only ? Should I send a patch updating all the script ?
12:24 Brooke         jwagner: it will be if we continue not to act
12:24 mtj            surely no-one disagrees on this basic point?!?
12:23 ColinC         we should give some doc on how to use the tool
12:23 Brooke         cause he's more knowledgeable
12:23 Brooke         or what mtj said
12:23 jwagner        I'm not really understanding why it's a problem.  Consistency would be nice, but it is a crisis?
12:23 Brooke         how about we recommend that developers use perlstyle
12:23 mtj            ok, a vote on whether to use an offical perltidy style , please?
12:23 paul_p_        Koha is hard enough to hack already !!!
12:23 paul_p_        thd, not sure I agree with this idea. That's important to have consistency over coding style !
12:22 sekjal         I'd prefer not to spend QA time reformatting style: it would be better if it were up to the individual developer to make any fixes necessary
12:22 slef           get the documentation sorted, get most of us using it and then we can look at a requirement. Viva Do-ocracy!
12:22 thd            paul_p: I remember a discussion at Koha-Con 2009 where gmcharlt seemed to wisely state something to the effect of not forcing people to use any one style of indentation etc. avoided unnecessary religious strife.  Consistency within the file is more important.
12:22 Brooke         aye naught wrong with a strong suggestion
12:22 slef           Brooke: recommendation not requirement first I think.
12:21 jwagner        mtj, but part of the policy has to be enforcement of some kind, doesn't it?
12:21 slef           I'd vote: gnu > perlstyle > koha > no-style > pbp # though
12:21 Brooke         we're trying to make it policy, yes?
12:21 mtj            jwagner: lets cross that very distant bridge *after* we decide on an offiical style
12:21 ColinC         I suggest we start first with a recommendation that people use it
12:21 slef           Brooke: not policy though?
12:21 * paul_p_      think it's not a good idea in fact...
12:21 Brooke         and I think it was in the way back, too
12:21 paul_p_        updating all scripts
12:21 Brooke         it was over the mailing list slef
12:21 paul_p_        other option (dunno if it's a good one), have a big patch at the beginning of 3.8
12:20 slef           I don't think transition has been discussed at all yet, has it?
12:20 ColinC         I'd agree with slef I think use defaults is easier than suggesting people use exceptions
12:20 jwagner        Or have the QA person change them?
12:20 jwagner        Are you proposing to reject patches that aren't written to style?
12:19 slef           perlstyle-style and pbp-style are so close in disruptiveness, I'd really prefer we pick the more FOSS perlstyle-style
12:19 paul_p_        thd, I would prefer to have a rule !
12:19 slef           thd: we could consider it but I wouldn't advocate it strongly.
12:18 thd            slef: Is the actual practise of continuing to not have an official style an option we are considering?
12:18 slef           jcamins: also we could probably put vim and emacs tags into the files to trigger smart editors to adapt
12:18 slef           jcamins: will do if I'm correct ;-)
12:18 jcamins        slef: that should be documented somewhere.
12:18 mtj            magnuse: yes and yes
12:18 slef           jcamins: run perltidy OPTIONS FILENAMES before commit.
12:17 * magnuse      has been following koha rather closely for 3 odd years, and can't remember seeing anything about any explicit coding styles...
12:17 mtj            ok, so shall we vote on this issue?
12:17 mtj            slef, yep 'koha-style' perltidy is not really offiical, so not enforced
12:17 jcamins        FWIW, I have no idea how one would go about using this.
12:16 slef           for comparison, Circulation.pm is about 3000 lines
12:16 * wizzyrea     suspects there was not enough suggesting that people should use it, lately
12:16 paul_p_        I think so
12:16 ColinC         I think at present no style is in operation
12:15 slef           mtj: but all are bigger than I thought, so probably no-one uses koha-style explicitly either
12:15 magnuse        mtj++
12:15 slef           mtj++
12:15 slef
12:15 slef           15  Circulation.pm.perlstyle-style | 2045 +++++++++++++++++++++++-----------------
12:15 slef
12:15 slef           14  Circulation.pm.pbp-style       | 2037 +++++++++++++++++++++++-----------------
12:15 slef
12:15 slef           13  Circulation.pm.koha-style      | 1673 +++++++++++++++++----------------
12:15 slef
12:15 slef           12 Circulation.pm.gnu-style       | 1730 +++++++++++++++++-----------------
12:15 mtj            slef:  so koha-style has the least change from current
12:14 paul_p_        slef, dunno, we don't have an explicit rule
12:14 slef           pbp is not documented in FOSS anywhere as far as I can tell.
12:14 thd            :)
12:14 mtj            http://git.kohaaloha.com/?p=koha-perltidy/.git;a=blob;f=0001-applied-various-perltidy-styles-to-Circ.pm.patch;h=d4d6ee5d575f289d1f279757007eb7b5c6f0ab10;hb=95002157c25c04e104631bfc127fcec56e825cf3
12:14 slef           paul_p_: do biblibre still code to 178-char line length?
12:14 paul_p_        why "except pbp" ?
12:13 paul_p_        good point (except i'm not sur all the script already have "koha-style")
12:13 slef           in which case we might as well pick anything except pbp.
12:13 slef           but it may be that no-one was using the perltidyrc any more anyway, so that will also be a disruption
12:13 slef           if we switch to another style, it may be a big disruption for little gain
12:12 slef           the perltidyrc (koha-style in mtj's examples) was an attempt to standardise what was already happening
12:12 slef           ok, let me explain my concern
12:12 paul_p_        kf, yep, that's what I meaned ;-)
12:12 Brooke         believe perltidy is what's on the table, yes/
12:12 thd            mtj: I think that consistency within each file is sufficient.
12:12 ColinC         Agreed
12:11 * magnuse      agrees with kf
12:11 kf             choose an existnig style, not create one
12:11 paul_p_        My 2nd concern being : don't spend time reinventing the wheel, spend time hacking
12:11 slef           from near the start of the patch file
12:11 kf             and easy to use
12:11 kf             yep, important, document it, make it easy to find
12:11 slef           paste those lines
12:11 slef           filename | 4 ++--
12:11 slef           that will show lines like
12:11 kf             :)
12:11 kf             oh wow
12:10 thd            kf++
12:10 wizzyrea       (and publish it somewhere)
12:10 slef           mtj: git format-patch -o .. 'HEAD^'
12:10 ColinC         kf+
12:10 wizzyrea       kf++
12:10 paul_p_        kf++
12:10 kf             I hve no strong opinion about the coding thing - make it consistent and choose one, change code not at once but bit by bit perhaps
12:09 slef           that's not it... 1mo
12:09 * slef         checks that here
12:09 mtj            hmm, 1 tic...
12:09 slef           mtj: git whatchanged -1 # IIRC
12:09 mtj            slef: i dont know how to do that...
12:08 slef           mtj: could you paste how many lines are changed (I think it's in the whatchanged output?)
12:08 mtj            but regardless of my examples.... lets vote :)
12:06 mtj            thd: but are now back up?
12:06 thd            The examples of perl tidy in action are down.
12:06 Brooke         take it away mtj, methinks
12:05 Brooke         (last point in the agenda before setting the time and date! Woot!)
12:05 wizzyrea       not that kind ofachievement
12:05 * thd          caused a stack overflow in the circulation system.   High score :)
12:05 Brooke         #topic coding guidelines
12:04 thd            Brooke: Yes, I understand that those are ideas for scoring points and not rules.
12:04 Brooke         excellent idea.
12:04 magnuse        yay
12:04 Brooke         will put it there when I've got summat
12:04 magnuse        Brooke: do it on the wiki and we can all chime in if we see fit?
12:04 * rangi        has to go to sleep
12:04 wizzyrea       thd: the features are completely optional
12:03 mtj            magnuse: ta :)
12:03 paul_p_        Brooke, I keep silent because i've nothing to say (& i'm having lunch, i admit ;-) )
12:03 kf             back
12:03 thd            Brooke: I see a strategy for gaming the library for achievement which would abuse the circulation desk.
12:03 wizzyrea       yes, i'll help you
12:02 Brooke         k I shall take thy silence as a sign of assent.
12:02 magnuse        mtj: works for me!
12:02 mtj            http://git.kohaaloha.com/?p=koha-perltidy/.git;a=commit is back up?
12:02 magnuse        what's not to like? ;-)
12:01 Brooke         at least in one department.
12:01 Brooke         we have a nice armature for the stuff we were gonna do anyway
12:01 Brooke         if they don't like it
12:01 wizzyrea       go for it
12:01 Brooke         so I'm up for it
12:01 Brooke         it's not actual coding
12:01 Brooke         if they like it, then great
12:00 Brooke         submit summat
12:00 Brooke         here's what I have in my crazy head
12:00 Brooke         so
12:00 Brooke         (like 15th October)
12:00 Brooke         they're do very soon
12:00 Brooke         the bad news is
12:00 Brooke         the proposals they're looking for run very close to the achievement stuff outlined
12:00 Brooke         http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Gamifying_the_ILS
11:59 Brooke         some Gamification achievement stuff was already proposed on the wiki
11:59 wizzyrea       #info Liz Rea (NEKLS - apologies on the tardiness)
11:59 Brooke         http://dmlcompetition.net/
11:59 Brooke         I wanted to draw attention to
11:59 Brooke         #topic Gamification
11:58 Brooke         #help think over the handling of bugs with no endorsement.
11:57 Brooke         #idea list of bugs in a call for help or koha-devel mail
11:57 slef           thd: QA or anyone watching koha-bugs to review/move it on when they get time. Could put a list of bugs in a call for help in newsletter or koha-devel mail. Lots of ideas.
11:57 wahanui        Brooke: I forgot brooke
11:57 Brooke         wahanui forget brooke
11:57 wahanui        somebody said Brooke, was it summer now in NZ?
11:57 paul_p_        Brooke, ???
11:56 Brooke         let's mull this over more mebbe?
11:56 paul_p_        (many have patch pushed, maybe we could remove them)
11:55 slef           #info change the 90 on the end for a different number of bugs
11:55 slef           #info ^^ bugs that are unchanged more than 90 days
11:55 paul_p_        thd, have someone else endorsing it
11:55 slef           #link http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/buglist.cgi?field0-0-0=days_elapsed&query_format=advanced&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&type0-0-0=greaterthan&value0-0-0=90
11:55 Brooke         maybe we can feature them for adoption at GBSDs.
11:55 thd            slef: What should happen after bugs are explicitly disowned?  What action should be triggered?
11:54 paul_p_        yep
11:54 slef           paul_p_: but you think it should be fixed, just not by you?
11:54 paul_p_        good, we agree on that !
11:54 paul_p_        slef, well, atm, everybody think "paul will take care", but I won't
11:53 slef           But for explicitly disowning bugs, OK.
11:53 slef           I think a default assignment of TEAM (Toll! Ein Anderes Macht's! = Great, someone else will do it!) is an awful idea and I don't see how it addresses your problem.
11:53 paul_p_        assigning to koha-bugs what a given default assignee don't want to endorse sounds a good idea
11:52 paul_p_        slef, but if it's a real bug, I won't set "RESOLVE WONTFIX" !!! it's just that I want to say "ok, it's still here, but it's not for me"
11:52 slef           paul_p_: koha-bugs@lists.koha-community.org
11:51 paul_p_        slef, assign such a but to QA = you mean "QA mailing list" ?
11:51 slef           or actually, RESOLVE WONTFIX
11:51 slef           I mean, the answer to paul_p_'s question in that post seems simple: assign such a bug to QA. I don't see why defaults need change to do that.
11:50 slef           #link http://lists.koha-community.org/pipermail/koha-devel/2011-August/035984.html
11:50 slef           thd: ok... I'd not got back that far yet. Thanks.
11:50 thd            slef: The issue was raised on the koha-devel list in August.
11:49 paul_p_        the question I try to solve : how to detect non endorsed bugs & how to avoid having useless default assignees
11:49 sekjal         I mostly use RSS for QA notifications
11:48 slef           I don't understand what problem you are trying to solve here. I'm currently searching koha-devel for the thread. A link in the agenda would have been helpful.
11:48 slef           I don't like that. QA have enough to do already.
11:47 paul_p_        idea : use koha-qa as default assignee & let QA contactbeing set by QA manager & assistants ?
11:47 paul_p_        default assignee being someone & default QA being koha-QA mailing list
11:46 paul_p_        oups, sorry I misunderstand you. We have 2 things : default assignee & default QA
11:46 slef           paul_p_: abandoned bug = Last change > N months ago?
11:46 paul_p_        ?
11:46 slef           no, kf was right - I was wrong. module maint is default assignee
11:46 paul_p_        maybe we could have no default QA and have koha-qa as default assignee
11:46 kf             phone call
11:45 paul_p_        not assignee
11:45 paul_p_        kf, slef said koha-QA
11:45 slef           #link http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/describecomponents.cgi?product=Koha
11:45 kf             and cc bug list
11:45 kf             module maintainer is
11:45 jcamins        I don't think koha-devel is such a good idea. That would greatly increase the volume of e-mail.
11:45 paul_p_        slef, yep
11:45 kf             no
11:45 slef           kf: I think koha-qa is default assignee isn't it?
11:45 paul_p_        the big point being: "how to detect abandonned bugs ?"
11:45 kf             as long as something is NEW noone is workign on it
11:45 kf             I thought we do that
11:44 paul_p_        i've had 2 ideas : having koha-devel as default assignee & using NEW/ASSIGNED status to deal with real assignee
11:44 paul_p_        I think it differs, but not sure i'm right.
11:43 Brooke         someone want to talk about this? is this summat that will be covered by Champions or is it different?
11:42 Brooke         follow up on the koha-devel thread for bugzilla and default assignee
11:42 Brooke         #topic Misc
11:42 mtj            oops..
11:42 rangi          nope
11:42 mtj            so,
11:42 magnuse        not accoring to http://librarypolice.com/koha-meetings/2011/koha.2011-09-07-18.00.html
11:41 Brooke         did we have any actions from last meeting that neet to be seen to?
11:41 magnuse        (other than to say having gbsd as a regular thing on the agenda might be unnecessary...)
11:41 Brooke         #topic Old Business
11:40 magnuse        not from me
11:40 jwagner        #info Jane Wagner, PTFS/LibLime
11:40 Brooke         anything else on bugs?
11:40 magnuse        Brooke: agreed!
11:40 Brooke         not that bugs need to wait for a GBSD :)
11:40 magnuse        paul_p_: great!!
11:39 nengard        7 voted for Edinburgh for #2 and 58 for Reno as #2 and 23 didn't rank a #2
11:39 paul_p_        (magnuse and that will be the case for all GBSD : we concluded that half a day every 2 week was not the best, because when you've half a day, you need to start and ... it's done. So we switch 1 day every month, the GBSD)
11:39 nengard        2 didn't complete the vote
11:39 nengard        12 voted for Reno as #1
11:39 kf             nice!
11:39 slef           this GBSD is far enough into a month I may be able to take part... if my colleagues get moving with the month-start admin today/tomorrow
11:39 jcamins        magnuse: ah. I have no objection to keeping them on Fridays for now, I was just wondering.
11:39 nengard        74 voted for Edinburgh as the first choice
11:38 magnuse        biblibre++
11:38 nengard        88 votes
11:38 magnuse        jcamins: initally because biblibre have their community days on fridays, but it cn be changed, of course
11:38 kf             biblibre++
11:38 kf             because fridays are for fun things? :)
11:38 paul_p_        magnuse: this time all BibLibre will join GBSD for all the day.
11:38 jcamins        magnuse: why are they always on Fridays?
11:38 paul_p_        (number of votes, % ...)
11:38 paul_p_        hi nengard. Do you have some details about KohaCon12 vote ?
11:37 magnuse        be there or be []
11:37 magnuse        there is a gbsd on this coming friday, as a last sprint to the string freeze http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/2011-10-07_Global_bug_squashing_day
11:37 rangi          thats my input on the subject
11:37 rangi          they rule
11:37 jransom        congrats slef
11:37 Brooke         #topic Global Bug Squashing Days
11:36 jransom        i'm going to head off folks - see some of yuou in Mumbai and maybe the rest in Scotland!
11:36 nengard        #info Nicole Engard, ByWater Solutions, Documentation Manager
11:36 rangi          coolio
11:36 slef           #info I thank all voters and koha-community on behalf of the co-op. We'll get moving and be in touch.
11:36 kf             people have not agreed to make the data public
11:36 kf             yes, important point
11:36 Brooke         arright good point
11:36 nengard        like last year
11:36 nengard        before putting it on the wiki
11:35 nengard        keep it anonymous
11:35 nengard        Brooke you want to remove the names and such before making it public
11:35 jransom        30 june - but thats not a reason to influence date choice
11:35 wahanui        thd: that doesn't look right
11:35 thd            jransom: Change your financial calendar to suit.
11:35 Brooke         we can make it public I suppose yes nicole?
11:35 Brooke         paul ask nengard for good numbers there's a link here
11:35 sekjal         slef:  just so long as it's not late October; missing 3 Halloween's in a row is too much for my family!
11:35 slef           jransom: when is your financial year break?
11:35 paul_p_        Brooke, some details about the votes ?
11:34 jransom        but not sure i'll be able to swing 2 trips in same financial year
11:34 slef           kf: yes, there are many festivals in Edinburgh which we cannot outbid for venues and so on.
11:34 kf             trying not to make it the same time as other important things
11:34 kf             I think the host decides
11:34 jcamins        rangi: you'd be surprised.
11:34 jransom        yay - i nve never been toscotland and my great grandads were scottish and irish andfrench and english
11:33 Brooke         he chooses the one that's convenient to him as host.
11:33 slef           thd: Unless there's a strong reason not to, we will got with best availability and weather, probably June.
11:33 rangi          och aye the noo (and yes i know no one actually says that in scotland .., at least not as a phrase like that)
11:33 kf             I think having it earlier next year was discussed - I like the idea
11:33 thd            slef: How do you propose choosing a time?
11:33 jcamins        Yippee!
11:33 kf             slef++ coop++ (?)
11:33 kf             whooohoooooo!
11:32 magnuse        woohoo!
11:32 Brooke         Congratulations Scotland :D
11:32 Brooke         #topic KohaCon 2012
11:32 Brooke         we've no one to address anything anyway on to
11:32 Brooke         so
11:32 paul_p_        I hope that the lot of work time will occur whent i'm "low work needed" on managing my company
11:31 rangi          thd: not steady amount, big lumps, then quiet
11:31 thd            :)
11:31 Brooke         fits and spurts
11:31 thd            rangi: lumpy?
11:30 rangi          lumpy
11:30 jransom        kudos to those who take it on
11:30 rangi          it comes and goes too
11:30 jransom        its aery big commitment
11:30 thd            rangi: That is good to know as a comparison for such an all consuming job.
11:30 rangi          its pretty much a fulltime job, but the realities are, you have to do probably about half unpaid
11:29 rangi          and 3 or 4 hours of my own time each day
11:29 jransom        16 more sleeps for me
11:29 rangi          just fyi, i did on average about halftime of my working time
11:29 Brooke         no other Indians in the house.
11:29 Brooke         #topic KohaCon2011
11:28 paul_p_        (maybe i'll be able to do more, but i'm not sure at all)
11:28 thd            paul_p_++
11:28 paul_p_        enough I don't know. I can't promise doing more, and promise not doing less
11:28 Brooke         #agreed Paul Poulain is the release manager.
11:28 paul_p_        enough I don't know. I can't afford doing more, and promise not doing less
11:28 sekjal         +1 for paul for 3.8 RM
11:28 mtj            slef, will fix that now
11:27 rangi          +1
11:27 thd            paul_p_ Is half time enough time?
11:26 slef           mtj: point of info, your examples git is Server Temporarily Unavailable every time I tried so far
11:26 mtj            ... just got back home, and remembered the irc meeting
11:26 kf             celebrating your new roles I guess - because you got the jobs
11:26 rangi          heh
11:26 kf             lol
11:26 christophe_c   +1
11:26 mtj            i bumped into eythian, and we got sidetracked at a pub
11:26 kf             +1
11:26 jransom        +1 for paul
11:26 slef           -1 no prejudicing the next release's roles
11:26 thd            +1
11:25 paul_p_        just one point (already written iirc) = I plan to dedicate half of my time to the RM role
11:25 magnuse        +1
11:25 jransom        heya mj
11:25 Brooke         well then go on and vote properly you cats!
11:25 Brooke         morena
11:25 mtj            morning all
11:24 Brooke         any other unresolved issues?
11:24 Brooke         I think so
11:24 kf             ready to vote now?
11:24 christophe_c   +1 paul_p
11:24 kf             ok
11:23 magnuse        paul_p++
11:23 thd            +1 paul_p_ sensibly sensing the community
11:23 magnuse        rangi: sounds good to me
11:23 paul_p_        that's my hope too, although i'l bug ppl on koha-devel to point pending patches !
11:22 jransom        rangi: sounds that way
11:22 sekjal         kf:  that's my hope, too
11:22 kf             paul_p_: with more people doing qa I hope we can catch up on things :)
11:22 rangi          is that what ppl are concluding?
11:22 Brooke         excellent to hear Paul
11:22 rangi          #info stick with time based releases, if a release contains a change large enough to warrant a major version number we use it, otherwise keep on the 3.x one
11:22 paul_p_        kf, I think i've already said i've abandonned the idea, as it seems ppl are against it.
11:21 sekjal         ^^
11:21 kf             on another question: can we discuss lowering the qa barrier for some time? I don't feel so comfortable with that, even if it's only for a limited amount of time
11:21 * oleonard     must leave, is ready to give paul_p his vote knowing that it will All Work Out.
11:20 slef           http://lists.koha-community.org/pipermail/koha-devel/2011-October/036235.html
11:20 sekjal         I'd like the opportunity to see if any other major features can be reasonably developed in time for our target 4.0 date, but that's really details as far as I'm concerned
11:20 slef           magnuse: ta
11:19 magnuse        slef: http://lists.koha-community.org/pipermail/koha-devel/2011-October/date.html
11:19 jransom        so we preomise a releasae and whats ready is in it
11:19 paul_p_        sekjal, I think too
11:19 thd            slef: today in koha-devel.
11:19 sekjal         paul_p_:  okay, so then you and I are mostly in agreement.
11:19 paul_p_        I won't call it 4 just to beat chrome numbering speed ;-)
11:19 paul_p_        I won't call it 4 just to beat chrome numbering ;-)
11:18 paul_p_        1st digit is updated on any major structural change being the rule
11:18 paul_p_        sekjal, 3.10
11:18 sekjal         would the release then still be called Koha 4.0, if the major structural change isn't ready, or would it go to 3.10?
11:18 thd            sekjal: So the issue may be merely whether the ready features merit the major version number.
11:17 sekjal         ok
11:17 paul_p_        then no Solr in oct 12 !
11:17 sekjal         would you propose delaying 4.0, or not including Solr?
11:16 sekjal         paul_p_:  what if the Solr work cannot pass QA by Oct. 22nd, 2012, for whatever reason?
11:16 slef           thd: got message-id or link handly?
11:16 paul_p_        sekjal, no ! definetly no ! (at least in my mind, seems I can't explain clearly my idea)
11:15 thd            slef: On the koha-devel list paul_p_ tried to answer sekjal.
11:15 sekjal         paul_p_: it's not just numbering, it's feature-based v. time-based
11:15 paul_p_        slef, right, couldn't find time
11:15 slef           paul_p_: what late answer? http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Proposal_paul_p_RM38 is unchanged since last meeting.
11:14 paul_p_        I think it's just a numbering question, that is really a minor question
11:14 kf             but don't force features that are not ready
11:14 kf             3.10
11:14 kf             when not - do a 3.01
11:14 kf             hm perhaps say, when it's ready, do a 4.0, and aim for that
11:14 paul_p_        maybe I haven't be clear enough in my today mail.
11:14 Brooke         I appreciate the idea of parallel development, but perhaps when we have two like releases: either two feature based or two time based.
11:14 sekjal         and we can jump right from 3.8 to 4.0
11:14 sekjal         hopefully, all the stuff we plan for in 1 year will be ready in 1 year
11:14 * oleonard     too
11:14 Brooke         I concur slef
11:13 magnuse        sekjal: +1
11:13 slef           -1 no role appointments for 4.0 yet, especially without any details.
11:13 sekjal         I still hold that timebased releases on the 3.X line are the way to go, with a feature-based 4.0 being released when all its parts are actually ready
11:13 paul_p_        of course i'm for time based releases ! i was the 1st to use the term !
11:13 paul_p_        or no ?
11:13 paul_p_        sekjal, and my -late- answer to this concern does fix your question ?
11:12 sekjal         we tried that before with 3.2, and it.... didn't work so well
11:12 sekjal         I don't believe it's reasonable to schedule feature releases on a timetable
11:12 Brooke         and we have been quick for us so far.
11:12 Brooke         I think they're both key
11:11 kf             I think that's an important point
11:11 thd            paul_p_ Do I understand that correctly that your plan for 4.0 will be whatever the collective community plan is?
11:11 magnuse        should we do the whole timebased releases, which features are required for calling it 4.0 discussion again? ;-)
11:10 magnuse        +1
11:08 Brooke         release manager Paul Poulain
11:08 christophe_c   +1 fo kf too
11:07 Brooke         #agreed Frédéric Demians is the Translation Manager with cait assisting.
11:07 fredericd      when could you scheduled that: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Git_Splitting_and_Shrinking
11:07 jcamins        #info jcamins = Jared Camins-Esakov, C & P Bibliography Services.
11:06 paul_p_        if it's OK for you, then +1
11:06 kf             translation is important for us
11:06 kf             that's ok for me
11:06 fredericd      magnuse: you can co-host...
11:06 magnuse        +1 for kf ;-)
11:06 rangi          kf it is
11:06 magnuse        hm, i won't have time to do something like that in the foreseeable future...
11:06 kf             +1 fpr fredericd as translation manager
11:06 paul_p_        hehe... good idea. you shouldn't have said it, they'll refuse to help you;-)
11:05 rangi          +1 to either of them (or both)
11:05 christophe_c   +1
11:05 fredericd      in order to premare the transmission of this role to one of them
11:05 paul_p_        ( & +10 for the idea to remove translation from git repo !)
11:05 fredericd      I've asked to associate cait to this role (or magnuse or both)
11:04 rangi          fredericd: did you have an idea that kf might help out with translations also?
11:04 ropuch         +1
11:04 paul_p_        +1
11:04 ColinC         +1
11:04 magnuse        +1
11:04 thd            +1
11:03 Brooke         Frédéric Demians for Translation manager
11:02 Brooke         #agreed Nicole Engard is Documentation Manager and Documenter of DB
11:02 paul_p_        (for those who don't understand = private joke)
11:02 paul_p_        (too many things in english I mean)
11:02 Brooke         ha!
11:02 paul_p_        Brooke, i promise i'll never apply as doc manager, or you'll have to learn me too many things :D
11:02 jransom        +1
11:01 rangi          +1
11:01 kf             +1
11:01 sekjal         +1
11:01 ColinC         +1
11:01 oleonard       +1
11:01 magnuse        +1
11:01 Brooke         oh fine, nengard for Documentation for this go
11:01 paul_p_        +1 for nicole (maybe not for life)
11:01 thd            +1 next couple of releases at a time
11:00 kf             one release at at time
11:00 Brooke         Nicole for Documentation for life?
11:00 thd            +1 everyone who shows up again
11:00 Brooke         kf++
10:59 kf             not so many people, we will get some doubling up :)
10:59 rangi          but he can do both :)
10:59 rangi          i was gonna make oleonard a champion
10:59 slef           +1
10:59 paul_p_        +1 for oleonard
10:59 kf             +1 for oleonard :)
10:59 magnuse        +1 for oleonard
10:59 Brooke         #agreed and Oleonard wrangles too :D
10:59 christophe_c   +1 for both
10:59 * oleonard     would be glad to wear that badge
10:59 Brooke         #agreed Bug Wranglers are KF and Magnus (not that this is limited.)
10:58 Brooke         I'm gluing together Documentation Manager and Documentation of DB since they are the same highly competent individual, not that I'm biased ;)
10:58 kf             oleonard: up to get a title?
10:58 kf             true
10:58 ropuch         +1
10:58 paul_p_        I think oleonard could also be elected, as he is BW, even if he don't has the role officially ;-)
10:57 * oleonard     +1s kf, magnuse, and everyone he missed before
10:57 hdl            +1
10:57 hdl            +1
10:57 paul_p_        +1 for magnuse & +1 for kf
10:56 ColinC         +1 both
10:56 sekjal         +1 for kf, +1 for magnuse
10:56 rangi          +2 (one each)
10:56 jransom        +1 +1
10:56 kf             +1 for magnuse
10:56 thd            +1 everyone who shows up
10:56 magnuse        +1 for kf
10:56 Brooke         anyone else got a hankerin' to keep doggies movin?
10:55 Brooke         Bug Wranglers we've KF and Magnuse
10:55 Brooke         #agreed Ian Walls continues as QA Manager
10:55 Brooke         Ian is too slow to escape so
10:54 thd            +1
10:54 magnuse        +1
10:54 kf             +1
10:54 Brooke         QA Manager is solely Ian
10:54 Brooke         #agreed both Marcel de Rooy and Jonathan Druart will be Assistant QA managers
10:53 sekjal         the more the merrier
10:53 hdl            °1
10:53 kf             +1
10:53 jransom        me too
10:53 ropuch         +1
10:53 ColinC         +1 for both
10:52 christophe_c   +1 too
10:52 slef           +1
10:52 thd            +1 many many volunteers
10:52 magnuse        +1 for both
10:52 Brooke         I believe it was said that it's okay for 2, yes Ian?
10:52 paul_p_        having 2 doesn't harm at all. so I vote +1 for both of them
10:52 Brooke         we've Marcel de Rooy and Jonathan Druart on the slate
10:52 Brooke         Assistant QA Managers
10:51 Brooke         on we go
10:51 thd            Even when I have had no other time for Koha, I have been fixing the wiki.
10:50 jransom        it would sort out who was payng attention
10:50 Brooke         #idea send to the list nominating Champions and if their reaction time is low the trap shuts.
10:50 kf             +1
10:50 rangi          :)
10:50 rangi          they get the job
10:50 rangi          and if they dont say no fast enough
10:50 rangi          we should email the list nominating people
10:49 magnuse        hehe
10:49 paul_p_        (some of us will soon look like USSR generals, with 80 medals :D )
10:49 paul_p_        I think she's just lacking the name & badge ;-)
10:49 slef           wizzyrea already has the websites module which is a bottomless pit. Is wizzyrea here?
10:48 Brooke         #idea Module Champions hold no extra power save to cajole, bribe, and threaten
10:48 paul_p_        well, in fact, she already is a "module champion" ;-)
10:48 sekjal         I nominate wizzyrea for one or more modules, then
10:48 kf             make people talk to each other
10:48 kf             more a coordinating role
10:48 rangi          yup
10:47 sekjal         an advocate for a module
10:47 kf             because it's too much expecting that
10:47 rangi          just caring
10:47 rangi          i agree
10:47 paul_p_        right (imo)
10:47 rangi          so no extra power, except the power to cajole, bribe, threaten
10:47 kf             right?
10:47 kf             necessarily
10:47 kf             which does not mean fixing themselves
10:47 rangi          their
10:47 paul_p_        yes, that's my idea !
10:47 paul_p_        rangi, why not
10:47 rangi          and making it there role to care about making sure bugs in that area get fixed
10:46 rangi          how about calling them module champions
10:46 kf             I think keeping things in order, like a bug wrangler does
10:46 Brooke         so what is the community's pleasure?
10:46 sekjal         would ModuleMaints have any particular privileges?  a weightier signoff?  QA passing?  ability to commit code to a Koha branch?
10:45 * chris_n2     must excuse himself and get ready to head to work
10:44 paul_p_        helper for RMaint. testing/applying patches for a given module for example
10:44 sekjal         for creating fixes?  for testing incoming? for overall planning?
10:44 Brooke         yee haw the devil is up
10:44 sekjal         responsible in what sense?
10:44 paul_p_        responsible for a sub-part of koha maintainance. But we have no candidates, so...
10:43 kf             to move forward tonight
10:43 paul_p_        for me module maintainer is a help for RMaint
10:43 kf             and go through the modules at a separate meeting
10:43 sekjal         ^^
10:43 kf             perhaps we need to clarify the role a module maintainer has
10:43 * chris_n2     apologizes to the chair
10:43 chris_n2       ouch
10:43 Brooke         we are talking about roles paul
10:43 slef           ok, shall I mail him and ask if that's OK? If no response in a week, we call for new
10:42 paul_p_        we arevoting for roles ;-)
10:42 kf             wizzyrea would be good for circ - it's not about fixing, more like overseeing, right?
10:42 Brooke         #idea trawl koha-devel for options
10:42 chris_n2       then the default assignee could set those bugs they do not intend to work on to the other
10:42 paul_p_        we're not on this part of this agenda !
10:42 Brooke         but I can hardly predict that with accuracy
10:42 kf             +1 for optional
10:42 chris_n2       maybe not as the default, but as an option
10:42 Brooke         I'm thinking that Ian might be inclined to pick those up
10:42 kf             both very important
10:42 chris_n2       I think koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org is a good idea
10:42 slef           Circulation and Patrons
10:41 kf             yes, but he has more than one module
10:41 slef           Kyle M Hall looks like the only default assignee I've not seen recently
10:41 slef           #link http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/describecomponents.cgi?product=Koha
10:40 paul_p_        kf, it's also on the agenda, (misc section)
10:40 kf             paul_p_: yes, the defaults on bugzilla - we can still vote on the other suggestion
10:40 magnuse        kf: +1
10:39 paul_p_        kf, you mean default assignee on bugzilla ?
10:39 kf             but perhaps we should do that at a separate meeting
10:39 kf             not all are active in the community now
10:39 kf             I think revisiting the current module maintainers might be good
10:39 paul_p_        Bueller ???
10:38 kf             bueller?
10:38 Brooke         Module Maintainers? Bueller?
10:37 jransom        yay
10:37 magnuse        chris_n++
10:37 * chris_n2     is trying to script it up anyway
10:37 Brooke         Err Nighswonger. *duck*
10:36 paul_p_        wonderful chris_n2 !
10:36 Brooke         listen to Chris Christie darn it.
10:36 Brooke         I've naught for this under Module Maintainers
10:36 chris_n2       as I say, if no one steps up before release date I'll do it again
10:36 jransom        I vote for chris_n2 (if he wants it) - done an amazing job
10:36 paul_p_        maybe the best option is to call on the MLs and see if chris_n2 applies again or someone else save him ;-)
10:36 chris_n2       ouch
10:35 Brooke         #help someone save Chris from Release Maintainer
10:35 Brooke         chris_n++
10:35 Brooke         indeed
10:35 kf             but chris_n++ for his good work so far
10:35 Brooke         oh he's more than two options. He could move to the south of France. XD
10:35 paul_p_        chris_n2, I personnaly don't want to force anyone. But you're doing a good job so if you want to continue, i'll vote.
10:35 kf             we can ask and wait if someone volunteers
10:34 paul_p_        chris_n2, you've 2 options : either you accept to continue or we ask publicly for someone else.
10:34 chris_n2       if no one volunteers by release time, ask me again :)
10:34 kf             for life is a bit too scary, you have to make him do it one release after the other ;)
10:33 kf             I was secretly hoping he would do it for 3.6 - because he is good at it :)
10:33 * chris_n2     runs and hides :-)
10:33 * Brooke       was secretly hoping that Chris Squared would volunteer for life...
10:33 Brooke         do we have a proper candidate for Release Maintainer?
10:33 Brooke         (this is what you get when you're not present. XD)
10:32 Brooke         #agreed Robin is Packaging Manager with MTJ assisting
10:32 ColinC         1
10:32 thd            +1
10:32 sekjal         +1
10:32 christophe_c   +1
10:32 jransom        +1
10:32 paul_p_        +1
10:31 magnuse        +1
10:31 Brooke         okie dokie rangi has moved for Robin with MTJ as a helper
10:31 magnuse        rangi: +1
10:31 chris_n2       rangi: +1
10:31 paul_p_        except if one packages for Debian, one for RedHat for example
10:31 kf             rangi: agreed
10:31 * thd          sleeps at the keyboard regularly
10:31 rangi          i vote eythian in charge, mtj as sidekick
10:31 paul_p_        I think magnuse is quite right = 1 person make sense for packaging
10:31 Brooke         #info need clarification on Packaging Manager; might have to wait for next meeting.
10:30 paul_p_        they're sleeping
10:30 Brooke         indeed
10:30 kf             only getting later for nz
10:30 kf             not sure they will
10:30 Brooke         yeah I'm skippin this for now until one or the other shows, hopefully both
10:29 magnuse        i think it makes sense to have 1 person in charge of creating the official packages?
10:29 kf             I think both are not here right now :(
10:28 paul_p_        will ask him privately
10:28 paul_p_        ok
10:28 Brooke         Paul I'd rather not.
10:28 kf             #agreed Brooke is elected to chair the meetings (Bus driver)
10:28 Brooke         did this need to be a single person or is it valid to have both Mason and Robin?
10:28 paul_p_        Brooke, what about going back to 3.6 and ask the question to fredericd ?
10:28 fredericd      #info Frédéric Demians, Tamil
10:28 Brooke         #info Packaging Manager
10:28 chris_n2       lol
10:27 Brooke         #agreed I'm stuck with this for now.
10:27 sekjal         +1
10:27 kf             now we need an agreed :)
10:27 kf             +1
10:27 chris_n2       +1
10:27 slef           +1
10:27 ropuch         +1
10:27 rangi          +1
10:27 ColinC         +1
10:27 paul_p_        +1 too
10:27 magnuse        +1 then
10:27 jransom        +1 for brooke being the shepherd
10:27 Brooke         I don't feel like I was ever given it and it freaks me out
10:27 thd            +1 Brooke driving on both sides of the road
10:26 jransom        gets us places
10:26 Brooke         I'd like community assent for chairing
10:26 jransom        person in charge
10:26 Brooke         nope
10:26 paul_p_        "bus driver" = is it just a joke, or there's some english subtilty i miss ?
10:26 magnuse        #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Roles_for_3.8
10:26 hdl            slef: it says also that chris can...
10:26 Brooke         votes for and again me for Bus Driver
10:25 Brooke         doing this from the bottom to the top, cause I can.
10:25 Brooke         okie dokie
10:24 paul_p_        #agreed paul suggest git.koha-community.org/koct.git as name
10:24 slef           (bum! I don't have permissions on the directory plugin on the website at the mo, so I can't tell if we could use that for extensions - sorry)
10:24 Brooke         let's go for low lying fruit
10:24 Brooke         arright
10:24 kf             #agreed create a new project on git.koha-community.org for the KOCT firefox plugin
10:23 Brooke         moving on from the minutia of the agreed upon...
10:23 Brooke         #topic Voting on Roles for 3.8
10:23 asaurat        #info Adrien Saurat, BibLibre
10:22 asaurat        thx kf :)
10:22 slef           paul_p_: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Website_Administration#Host_and_administrators_4 says hdl can?
10:22 paul_p_        ok, i'll ask him if he don't read the logs of the meeting
10:22 rangi          gmcharlt can
10:21 paul_p_        rangi, can you ?
10:21 paul_p_        I think it's OK. The remaining question being = who create git.koha-community.org/koct.git ?
10:21 kf             welcome asaurat :)
10:21 Brooke         we talked out on this bug?
10:20 hdl            #info Henri-Damien LAURENT biblibre
10:20 paul_p_        wow ! wahanui is usesull ! great day !!!
10:20 Brooke         ta
10:20 wahanui        KOCT is Koha Offline Circulation Tool or https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/koct/
10:20 oleonard       KOCT?
10:20 paul_p_        please welcome asaurat, which is Adrien, new BibLibreros, that started on monday.
10:20 Brooke         I smell a link.
10:20 hdl            it is not certified though
10:20 oleonard       Yes it is
10:20 paul_p_        (or i missed something)
10:20 paul_p_        kf, it's already in the ff directory
10:19 Brooke         #idea listed on the firefox directory
10:19 kf             having it in the official firefox plugin directory woudl be good too
10:19 kf             paul_p: different repo is agreed on I think - presentation to be decided
10:18 paul_p_        (explain how to install it...)
10:18 paul_p_        chris_n, I think we need a different repo and a specific webpage to speak of the module
10:18 slef           yeah, we used to have an independant website, but we're already a bit stretched for admins IMO
10:18 chris_n2       or just a different repo on git.kc.org?
10:18 paul_p_        (because iirc, we had an independant website)
10:18 slef           I wonder if the directory plugin used on the main site for support directory could do a directory of extensions. I'll go look
10:18 chris_n2       are we talking about an entirely different project? ie different webpage, wiki, etc?
10:18 rangi          yup, we can point the dns anywhere just need someone to set up the site and maintain it
10:18 paul_p_        not sure we need to bring back the extensions page, it could just be a page on koha-community.org (or was it what you were thinking of ?)
10:17 Brooke         #idea bring back the extensions web page
10:17 christophe_c   +1
10:16 kf             I think that page needs someone to host it probably
10:16 slef           +1 from me - any chance of bringing the extensions web page back in some form, for that sort of thing?
10:16 christophe_c   hi
10:16 christophe_c   #info Christophe Croullebois, BibLibre
10:15 paul_p_        +1 from me, of course ;-)
10:15 paul_p_        s/ne versions/new versions/
10:14 paul_p_        kf, the plugin is very small, until now we had nothing to change, but it's the main reason = be able to release ne versions of the plugin when needed
10:14 chris_n2       +1
10:14 magnuse        +1
10:14 kf             so having it on the public repo but as a separate project does make sense to me
10:14 kf             I think the firefox plugin might change with new versions of firefox, different timeline than koha has
10:13 kf             :)
10:13 * chris_n2     gets to sleep in that saturday now ;-)
10:13 Brooke         ty
10:13 kf             no votes against ;)
10:13 kf             #agreed delaying the 3.4.6 release a day or two in light of the 3.6.0 release on the 22nd
10:13 oleonard       My suggestion was that it be in git somewhere, and having its own dedicated project is one option
10:12 paul_p_        oups, sorry, I missed that chris_n2 called for a vote. +1 for me
10:12 Brooke         please use vote instead of suggest or message me or summat. I'll be barreling through this stuff. It's a long agenda.
10:12 thd            +1
10:12 Brooke         fine vote on then :)
10:12 paul_p_        owen has tested the bug, is probably about to signoff, and is suggesting to add KOCT firefox plugin to git. I agree it's a good idea, and was suggesting to have a dedicated git project for it
10:11 rangi          Brooke: did we want to see if any more votes for delaying 3.4.6 ?
10:11 oleonard       #info Owen Leonard, Athens Count Public Libraries
10:11 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5877 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, paul.poulain, ASSIGNED , Offline circulation improvements : upload all files, apply at once
10:11 Brooke         so let's see bug 5877
10:10 * clrh         #info Claire Hernandez, BibLibre
10:10 rangi          +1
10:10 paul_p_        #info Jonathan Druart, BibLibre, France, applied as QA assistant for 3.8
10:10 kf             +1
10:10 * chris_n2     suggests delaying the 3.4.6 release a day or two in light of the 3.6.0 release on the 22nd
10:09 paul_p_        kf, right
10:09 rangi          yep, as soon as after the 8th would be great
10:09 kf             there are no 3.6 folders yet where you can upload your files
10:09 Brooke         #help fredericd to update pootle
10:09 kf             at this date
10:09 kf             was wondering if fredericd can update pootle
10:09 paul_p_        kf, fredericd works on french translation like a mad ;-)
10:08 kf             fredericd: around?
10:08 paul_p_        #info String freeze for 3.6 in 3 days (oct, 8th)
10:08 rangi          bugs that dont introduce new strings will still be pushed, and any security ones
10:08 rangi          2 weeks for translators
10:08 rangi          yup
10:07 kf             soon was 8th?
10:07 paul_p_        I've added a specific point yesterday, about BZ5877, let me know when I start speaking of it
10:07 rangi          if you want stuff in, get it signed off asap
10:07 rangi          to be ready for the release on the 22nd
10:07 rangi          we are in feature freeze, string freeze starts very soon
10:06 Brooke         #topic Roadmap to 3.6
10:06 kf             chris_n++
10:06 Brooke         any questions?
10:06 Brooke         everyone++
10:06 chris_n2       and that's it
10:06 chris_n2       thanks to everyone for all of the good work!
10:05 chris_n2       the plan is to keep releasing as long as we have a flow of patches for 3.4.x
10:05 chris_n2       the 3.4.6 will move out on the 22nd of this month
10:05 chris_n2       everything is moving along well with 3.4 maintenance
10:05 Brooke         chris squared?
10:04 Brooke         #topic Roadmap to 3.4
10:04 Brooke         apparently we have a placeholder on freenode
10:02 rangi          #info Chris Cormack, Catalyst IT
10:02 magnuse        #info Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway
10:02 ropuch         #info Piotr Wejman, CSNE Library, Poland
10:02 paul_p_        #info Paul Poulain, BibLibre
10:02 ColinC         #info Colin Campbell PTFS-Europe Ltd
10:02 sekjal         #info Ian Walls, ByWater Solutions, 3.6 QAM
10:02 jransom        #info Joann Ransom HLT, NZ
10:02 thd            #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
10:02 chris_n2       #info Chris Nighswonger, FBC, 3.4.x Release Maintainer
10:02 slef           #info MJ Ray, http://www.software.coop
10:02 kf             #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ
10:02 Brooke         introduce yourselves using #info if you want the minutes to show you were here
10:01 Brooke         Haere Mai!
10:01 ropuch         #help
10:01 paul_p_        Brooke, ok
10:01 Brooke         #topic Introductions
10:01 huginn         Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
10:01 huginn         Meeting started Wed Oct  5 10:00:22 2011 UTC.  The chair is Brooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
10:01 Brooke         #startmeeting
10:01 Brooke         #startmeetikng
10:01 Brooke         no it means I'm chairing and don't feel like fishing through email
10:00 paul_p_        starts now isn't it ?
10:00 paul_p_        Brooke, ok. It means you wont be there for the meeting ?
10:00 Brooke         because I've a bus to drive soon.
09:59 Brooke         and I will mail you details after the meeting
09:59 Brooke         it's meant to be a suite with an extra bed
09:59 paul_p_        (as we're 3 too, we may do like you)
09:59 paul_p_        Brooke, which email did you use ? 2nd question: did you book a suite with a supplementary bed for you 3 ? something else ?
09:57 Brooke         I booked by email, but I also phoned at one point.
09:57 rangi          eythian is all booked, i could ask him tomorrow, (he got all his confirmation stuff including a shuttle from the airport to the hotel)
09:57 paul_p_        Brooke, a private question before the meeting start. How did you do to book the hotel in mumbai ? I sent emails, but have no feedback (I try to book at the same hotel as you)
09:56 paul_p_        hi chris_n2 & Brooke
09:56 chris_n2       howdy paul_p_
09:56 Brooke         0/
09:55 chris_n2       ich
09:55 Brooke         this was Albany NY to a parking lot in Springfield MA to Worcester.
09:55 Brooke         that's rather good though :)
09:55 Brooke         could be worse
09:55 chris_n2       Culpeper
09:54 Brooke         from?
09:54 chris_n2       I did mine to Fairfax and Alexandria
09:54 Brooke         "centrally located Worcester."
09:54 * chris_n2     remembers the 4am carpool thing :P
09:53 Brooke         4 AM carpool!
09:53 Brooke         State Aid reprogrammed me
09:53 kf             ?
09:53 Brooke         I went from wanting to shoot things to wanting to do heavy duty maths
09:52 chris_n2       wow, that's pretty good for this time of the morning :)
09:52 * chris_n2     salutes
09:52 * Brooke       salutes jransom.
09:52 jransom        babe!
09:52 Brooke         CRC Helman reporting for duty! Just do not let me call cadence!
09:44 * chris_n2     reaches for the coffee pot :-)
09:44 chris_n2       heya kf
09:44 kf             hi chris_n2 :)
09:43 kf             anything in the log file?
09:43 kf             doubled up cardnumbers?
09:43 chris_n2       mtj: is kohaaloha having server problems?
09:42 magnuse        one patron worked, then i replaced that with another, without touching the header, and it says it can't parse the header...
09:41 kf             and your header?
09:41 kf             could you show my 2 anonymized lines?
09:40 kf             hmmm
09:40 kf             magnuse: I don't think providing a borrowernumber makes any sense, but it's ilke it worked for me in the past
09:40 magnuse        lines end with a " - yes, different borrowernumbers - yes same error
09:40 kf             magnuse: yes, give it something
09:39 kf             and still the same error message?
09:38 kf             and you are using different borrowernumbers, right?
09:38 kf             how do your lines end?
09:38 kf             hmmm
09:38 magnuse        kf: worked for the first one, but not when i tried with another patron... weird
09:33 magnuse        so you just gibe it something and that's overwritten/replaced?
09:32 magnuse        hm, that might have worked
09:30 kf             I normally count from 1 to something
09:30 kf             although it's not using it (don't ask me, it makes no sense)
09:30 joransom       test
09:30 magnuse        ok
09:30 kf             not sure about current version, but 3.2.2 doesn't like no borrowernumber
09:30 kf             magnuse: no, don't make it empty, give it something
09:30 jransom        heya Katrin
09:30 magnuse        the borrowernumber was empty, but i removed it - didn't help
09:30 kf             magnuse: borrowernumber?
09:30 kf             wb joransom :)
09:29 magnuse        nope
09:29 kf             are you providing a borrowernumber?
09:29 kf             do you have patron attributes?
09:29 kf             magnuse: hmmmm
09:28 jransom        irc app
09:28 jransom        maybe i need an ircr the android ..
09:28 magnuse        jransom: time to consider getting a "proper" irc client, perhaps? ;-)
09:28 jransom        yes!
09:28 jransom        this time maybe
09:26 magnuse        lots of "Header row could not be parsed"
09:25 kf             or only taking forever
09:25 kf             errors?
09:24 magnuse        wow, Patron Import does not want to be my friend today...
09:23 rangi          nekls use it in production, as do some of our libraries, havent heard anything from them
09:21 kf             hdl: I didn't notice any problems in our tests, we are testing with 3.4.5 right now
09:21 magnuse        hdl: i have 3.4.2 in production, but have not heard of any problems
09:21 kf             hdl: no we haven't - 3.2.2 still - once the i18n things are fixed we plan to update
09:20 hdl            It appears that when editing an item, modzebraqueue is not called any longer.
09:20 hdl            Don you have problems with checkin checkout status ?
09:20 hdl            magnuse: kf do you have 3.4 or 3.6 in production ?
09:18 jransom        gone again
09:18 kf             ah, my scrolling is broken
09:18 jransom        oh nuts -
09:18 kf             uhoh
09:18 magnuse        cool!
09:18 jransom        hello Magnus
09:17 jransom        yes :)
09:17 magnuse        better now, jransom?
09:16 jransom        and cant see my typing
09:16 jransom        this is interesting - I can't read anything (though it says someone mentioned my name)
09:15 magnuse        jransom: how's te takere coming along?
09:15 magnuse        kia ora jransom!
09:15 ropuch         Hi jransom
09:14 jransom        evening all
09:11 ropuch         Such time saving
09:10 ropuch         [;
09:10 ropuch         Huh, if only I had found this batch marc retrieve script
08:57 sekjal         I'll be back in an hour, then
08:57 kf             and you got up too early? :(
08:57 kf             oh
08:57 sekjal         this is not the first time daylight savings time has pulled one over on me.
08:56 sekjal         ah
08:56 wajasu         4am here
08:56 magnuse        in an hour
08:56 sekjal         meeting's happening soon, right?
08:55 sekjal         morning, magnuse
08:55 magnuse        good morning sekjal
08:55 wajasu         yeah.  i saw web based css might be a doable these days.
08:54 kf             and there might be work in progress somewhere you could built on
08:54 kf             to html
08:54 kf             i think the big plan is to move away from pdf
08:54 kf             wajasu: you should talk to chris_n about it
08:53 wajasu         maybe my pdf viewer, which is linux okular, doesn't have some sort of mapping table from C3BC -> FC,  too many point of conversion (browser->apache->perl->DB->perl->pdf)
08:51 wajasu         anyway the PDF had  two bytes  C3BC  and  showed as two chars. but after the patch,  the C3BC becomes  FC -> ü
08:49 wajasu         maybe i should export my marcxml record, and attach it to the bug?  tommorrow.
08:48 wajasu         i converted to marcxml, then imported.  I had to add holding, etc.  Things show fine in the web browser.
08:47 wajasu         i think i used a marc4j library when i wrote the import program from the old DOS based proprietary library software.
08:46 kf             the dots are not right above the u but a little bit too much right
08:46 kf             shows wrong in some browsers like firefox too
08:46 kf             making it u + dots
08:46 kf             wajasu: often the normalization form is different than
08:45 wajasu         I'll look into editing a bib with jürgen to see if thats a problem.  my problem is with records that are already imported from 2 years ago and that were pulled from z3950 servers initially.
08:43 wajasu         maybe i should export a marc record to see how it gets encoded in marcxml.
08:40 kf             you could try copying 'jürgen'
08:40 wajasu         it was a computer program that converted to marcxml, then imported.
08:40 kf             perhaps worth a test
08:40 kf             could be
08:39 kf             if you use u + .. for typing, it might be different
08:39 wajasu         maybe my database holds encoded U+C3BC and thats what is passing through, so the latin1 mapping wasn't working.
08:39 kf             perhaps it's a different character - I am using a german keyboard of course
08:38 wajasu         maybe its how my data got imported into koha from a legacy pc library system.
08:38 wajasu         i am trying to understand why my umlauts weren't working.
08:37 wajasu         yeah. i see
08:37 kf             comment 8
08:36 kf             yeah, I put a comment into the bug
08:36 wajasu         really. for barcode labels?
08:36 kf             like your example: Jürgen
08:36 kf             other thigns like cyrillic failed for me, but the umlauts I had tested
08:35 kf             becasue to my knowledge umlauts work
08:35 kf             wajasu: I commented - I am a bit confused
08:35 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2246 critical, PATCH-Sent, ---, cnighswonger, NEW , Label printing doesn't work with Unicode characters
08:35 wajasu         ok. i sent a patch for bug 2246.  my code change(1 line) to comments ratio is pretty high though :)
07:37 kf             hi Oak :)
07:35 Oak            hello #koha
07:35 Oak            Guten Tag kf
07:30 kf             mtj: around?
07:16 kf             yep
07:15 magnuse        meeting in 3 hours minus 15 minutes, right? http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_Meeting,_5_October_2011
07:15 rangi          wb kf
07:14 magnuse        guten morgen kf and #koha
07:13 kf             good morning #koha
06:53 magnuse        kia ora rangi
06:52 rangi          morning magnuse
06:50 reiveune       hi rangi
06:50 rangi          hi reiveune
06:38 reiveune       hello
06:31 wajasu         i had tried my 3.02 library labels, and also with3.4.4 and HEAD, and it seems the 1st line in my librarians template is missing.  does anyone remember something like that happening.  where after an upgrade the label templates needed rework.
06:28 cait           kulps: http://koha-community.org/support/paid-support/
06:27 cait           it's a koha support provider
06:26 kulps          cait, is bywater a koha consulting group?
06:24 cait           :)
06:24 ropuch         cait: bookmarks updated ;)
06:24 kulps          I'm not sure I'll be strong at ldap by the time I'm done integrating everything with it, but I'll certainly be beter
06:23 kulps          thanks
06:22 cait           http://bywatersolutions.com/2011/09/08/how-ldap-connections-work-in-koha-3-4/
06:21 cait           kulps: there is something on the bywater blog
06:21 cait           ropuch: tidied it up a little, the page is here:http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/How_to_add_an_OPAC_screen_keyboard
06:20 cait           ropuch:  :)
06:19 eythian        there's guides around, I'm pretty sure
06:19 kulps          maybe I found something
06:19 kulps          wait
06:19 kulps          hmm
06:17 kulps          also, the wiki doesnt mention how to configure Koha for LDAP authentication, is there a seperate guide somewhere?
06:16 ropuch         cait: I stil have the code from you somewhere [;
06:16 cait           ropuch: I have put the code for the screen keyboard on the wiki :)
06:15 wajasu         my library is academic and lots of german, swedish, jewish, arabic authors.
06:15 wajasu         now that I've read the pdf spec and know way too much, i might give it a shot, embedding the trutype font.
06:15 alex_a         hello #koha
06:14 cait           ropuch: yes, they have hebrew records
06:13 wajasu         so even if I patch the diacritics for latin1 (iso8859-1) folks want their own diacritics.
06:13 ropuch         cait: but afair it's your libraray with this nice virtual keyboard solution?
06:13 kulps          ropuch, thanks very much. I'll give it a whirl.
06:13 eythian        I'm a little surprised there's no standard unicode font for PDF
06:12 cait           this is a blocker bug for lots of people
06:12 ropuch         kulps: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.education.libraries.koha.devel/6574
06:12 cait           yeah, koha is very international
06:12 cait           hebrew
06:12 rangi          arabic too
06:12 kulps          ropuch, do you maybe have a link?
06:12 cait           we have hebre and all that, french have lots of diacritics
06:12 cait           not sure about the question?
06:11 wajasu         since utf8 supports more 1112064 codepoints (1-4 8bit bytes), maybe the pdf creators should just embed a unicode font.  Are we restricting chars to be <256 ascii code? do may marc21/xml records contain foreign language characters?
06:11 ropuch         kulps: an there was Nicholas van Rheede van Oudtshoorn (huh) post on koha-devel
06:07 wahanui        owen's blog is http://www.myacpl.org/koha/
06:07 cait           owen's blog
06:07 cait           hm i think oleonard's blog has one solution
06:06 kulps          hmm, where should I start looking? In the forums or the wiki, somewhere else?
06:05 eythian        *do
06:05 eythian        kulps: there's scripts floating around to show new stuff, a bit of hacking they could to random stuff.
06:03 wajasu         true.
06:03 kulps          Hey folks, I've finally started to import our books to the hackerspace's library and was wondering if there is a way (either built in or by extension) to show random books on the OPAC main screen? Or to be able to browse all books?
06:03 rangi          theres no reason it can't support both and users choose
06:02 rangi          for those who want
06:02 rangi          to still be able to use zebra for indexing
06:02 wajasu         to support the z3950 services?
06:00 rangi          thats the bit that is waiting
06:00 rangi          what needs to be done for it to go in koha, is it needs to not break zebra support
06:00 ropuch         cait: I'v got Lokalize plugin that properly display file:line in which translated term is [;
06:00 wajasu         ok.
06:00 rangi          its just using the api
05:59 rangi          dont think it requires any hacking of java, and its in one of biblibres branches already
05:58 wajasu         i'm wondering if you are really looking to support solr.  i am a java guys and could knock that out for ya.
05:57 wajasu         I could try coding a new label-create-pdf.pl that supported truetype, which i also got working but i need to draw the text differently, plus i'd need a new column to support the path to be used to embed.
05:51 cait           hi ropuch :)
05:48 ropuch         Morning #koha
05:48 wajasu         the original bug2499 really describes supporting foreign languages in PDFs.  my patch would just let current Latin1 standard fonts in the PDF spec work better.
05:44 eythian        It's still worth submitting so that it gets tested and follows the patch workflow stuff properly
05:43 wajasu         i did a git clone against git master.  i am going to try to submit a patch, but its basically the same 1 line change:  adding utf8::downgrade($line); before the $pdf->Add($line); so that the 2 byte unicode C3BC will get written as FC and the todays Latin font based PDFs will map the FC to udiaresis.
05:22 cait           hehe
05:22 cait           and how's things on the other side?
05:22 eythian        still light outside. Not used to that either.
05:21 cait           not used to the shorter days yet
05:21 cait           hm still dark outside
05:13 eythian        how's things?
05:12 cait           evening
05:12 cait           ah sorry
05:12 cait           morning mr robin :)
05:12 eythian        hi cait
05:12 cait           good morning #koha
03:50 * druthb       likes lil patches.
03:50 druthb         :)
03:50 rangi          was easy to test
03:50 rangi          no worries
03:49 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6867 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, ruth, ASSIGNED , datelastseen is not imported from marc file
03:49 druthb         rangi:  thanks for the push on Bug 6867.  :)  Glad to get that one whipped.
03:43 huginn         New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6895] Diacritics in Pootle/po files are broken in source text <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6895>
03:41 * eythian      is having no botluck today
03:41 wahanui        eythian: excuse me?
03:41 eythian        wahanui: you heard me
03:41 wahanui        i already had it that way, eythian.
03:41 eythian        no wahanui, \you heard me is <reply>Doesn't mean I was paying attention, $who
03:41 wahanui        i already had it that way, eythian.
03:41 eythian        wahanui: \you heard me is <reply>Doesn't mean I was paying attention, $who
03:41 wahanui        eythian: huh?
03:41 eythian        wahanui: you heard me
03:41 wahanui        OK, eythian.
03:41 eythian        wahanui: you heard me is <reply>Doesn't mean I was paying attention, $who
03:26 eythian        :)
03:26 rangi          ta
03:26 rangi          that works :)
03:26 eythian        compose-e-'
03:26 rangi          cut and paste
03:26 eythian        like that
03:26 eythian        �
03:26 rangi          an e with one
03:26 rangi          how do a i type an acute
03:25 rangi          hmm
03:24 eythian        hiya
03:24 eythian        hrm
03:24 * druthb       waves to rangi and eythian
03:24 wahanui        OK, eythian.
03:24 eythian        wahanui: literal \where is he
03:24 eythian        odd
03:24 wahanui        well, he is gone again
03:24 eythian        where is he
03:24 wahanui        he is gone again
03:24 eythian        where is he?
03:24 wahanui        he is gone again
03:24 eythian        where is he?
03:24 wahanui        OK, eythian.
03:24 eythian        wahanui: \where \is he is also <reply>He \is INSIDE the computer!
03:17 rangi          yeah
03:15 eythian        http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2011/10/04/searching-for-mark-pilgrim/ <-- Mark "Dive Into *" Pilgrim seems to have pulled a _why.
03:13 rangi          heya druthb
03:01 druthb         hi, mtj.  :D
03:01 mtj            heya druthb
02:59 druthb         o/
02:56 mtj            spread the aroha round...
02:55 rangi          oh cool
02:55 mtj            Koha repo on bitbucket -> https://bitbucket.org/koha/koha/overview
01:22 rangi          sleep well
01:22 rangi          :)
01:21 chris_n2       ok, off to sleep so I can stay awake during the meeting in a few hours :-)
00:55 rangi          figured :)
00:55 chris_n2       too busy
00:55 rangi          heya chris_n2 :) hows things?
00:55 chris_n2       heya rangi
00:53 rangi          mtj: i concur
00:30 mtj            its very relevant to the Koha project
00:30 mtj            rangi: yeah, thats my favourite bit too