Time Nick Message
00:00 mtj eythian: i'd do one at a time too ;)
00:00 seneca indeed ;)
00:00 seneca eythian, can you help me with the tracer?
00:01 seneca I thought I knew enough, but apparently I was wrong ;)
00:02 eythian well, in mainpage.pl it calls get_template_and_user with:
00:02 eythian flagsrequired => {
00:02 eythian catalogue => 1,
00:02 eythian },
00:02 eythian
00:03 eythian so, you'll want to look in that function, which I think is in C4/Auth.pm
00:05 eythian although, it passes on to checkauth
00:06 eythian so I'd dig through there
00:06 seneca int he checkauth function?
00:06 eythian yeah
00:06 seneca also in Auth.pm?
00:06 eythian yeah
00:10 mtj seneca: have a wack at putting Data::Dumper or Smart::Comments statements in Auth.pm
00:10 mtj then look in yr error log
00:11 seneca over my head, mtj :)
00:11 seneca sorry - not much of programmer
00:11 seneca more of a poker and see what happens
00:11 seneca though I promise I did not poke this install ;)
00:14 seneca just curious: what is the full version number of the latest 3.5 now?
00:15 mtj http://git.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=koha.git;a=tree
00:15 mtj http://git.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=koha.git;a=blob;f=kohaversion.pl;h=5b72642a90bdd8f4252ad0109bb6b5b05f77744f;hb=HEAD
00:15 mtj or this one....
00:16 seneca 3.05.00.010
00:16 mtj http://git.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=koha.git;a=blob;f=kohaversion.pl
00:16 seneca but I'm running 3.05.00.004
00:16 mtj sub kohaversion {
00:16 seneca and you guys are running newer than that, right?
00:16 mtj our $VERSION = '3.05.00.010';
00:16 eythian yeah, I was using latest master
00:16 mtj fyi, 3.05.00.010 is what i tested on
00:16 seneca I wonder...
00:17 eythian if you are using master in production (a bad idea in general) you pretty much have to stay up to date, bugs come out and are fixed all the time.
00:17 mtj yep, latest master for me too
00:17 seneca I'm going to try to upgrade and see what breaks/fixes
00:17 jcamins seneca: if you're tracking Master, I recommend upgrading it. If you don't, you'll be facing bugs that have already been fixed.
00:18 seneca that's what I'm hoping this is, jcamins
00:18 jcamins seneca: sorry about the repeat... I was looking away from the screen while typing, and didn't notice that other people said that already. ;)
00:18 seneca :)
00:20 * jcamins declares the day over, and goes to read. Further productivity is not in the cards.
00:20 jcamins Good night, #koha
00:20 jcamins Good luck, seneca.
00:20 seneca thanks
00:29 eythian who knows anything about what determines what users can see what baskets?
00:30 eythian We have a staff user unable to see baskets created by other staff users, and I think that's a bit weird
00:36 seneca upgraded to 3.5.0.10 but got these errors:
00:36 seneca http://library.mvschool.com
00:36 seneca Perl Module related, right?
00:36 eythian yeah
00:36 eythian libauthen-cas-client-perl
00:40 seneca Undefined subroutine &C4::Auth::checkpw_ldap called at /home/koha/kohaclone/C4/Auth.pm
00:40 seneca another perl module?
00:43 seneca Undefined subroutine &C4::Auth::checkpw_ldap called at /home/koha/kohaclone/C4/Auth.pm line 1426, <DATA> line 275.
00:43 seneca to be exact
00:45 seneca any tips?
00:49 seneca I don't see any difference in the Auth.pm between the previous version and 3.5.0.10
00:49 seneca in that area, anyway
00:49 seneca I didn't diff all 1500 lines...
00:53 seneca anybody else get that when they upgraded to master?
00:53 seneca (3.5.0.10)
00:53 seneca oh, there is no one else...
01:04 seneca hmm
01:05 seneca eythian, did you see this when you upgraded last?
01:05 seneca or mtj when you just today updated?
01:05 eythian No, but I don't have ldap turned on
01:06 seneca ah
01:06 seneca hmm... ldap configs don't seem to have changed
01:09 mtj seneca: my hunch is ldap....
01:10 seneca turning off ldap gets me past that error and to the staff client
01:10 seneca even for accounts that couldn't before
01:10 seneca but at least I have an actual error message now ;)
01:13 seneca but the error message makes me think that it isn't a problem with my ldap setup, but with koha's code related to ldap
01:13 eythian well, it could be a bug introduced in the current master.
01:14 eythian and it is Koha code that's broken there
01:14 seneca you mean if it is a bug in the current master?
01:16 eythian $ git show 9a3950f673c28688a2ead6514c3320e34ec0cc4c
01:16 eythian my guess is this patch breaks it
01:16 mtj why not upgrade your old backup db to 3.4, not 3.5 - and test ldap there
01:17 seneca eythian, that doesn't work on my cmd line
01:17 eythian why not?
01:17 seneca mtj, I'm about to - how ugly is reverting koha from git?
01:17 seneca I get "not a git repository"
01:17 eythian well then you're not in a git repository
01:18 mtj $ git reset --hard v3.04.04
01:18 eythian nonono
01:18 eythian git checkout v3.04.04
01:19 seneca how do I get your git show cmd to work?
01:19 seneca so I can see the patch
01:19 eythian be in the kohaclone directory
01:19 seneca oh, crap
01:19 mtj hehe, oops -i've always done it the 1st way
01:19 seneca sorry, I thought I was
01:19 seneca but wrogn term
01:19 seneca duh
01:19 seneca thanks :)
01:20 eythian mtj: using reset destroys your current branch pointer, you risk losing things.
01:21 mtj ah, i usually make a xxx branch before, then git reset --hard TAG-NAME
01:21 mtj eythian: but thanks for the tip
01:21 eythian in that case, do git checkout TAG-NAME -b my-branch
01:23 eythian I only use reset when I've messed something up and need to get back to a known-good state.
01:23 mtj seneca: please setup a test koha, before doing this stuff
01:24 seneca how do I set up a test koha? just make another folder?
01:24 seneca is backing up my kohaclone and koha-dev folders enough?
01:26 mtj seneca: you can handle those 2 tasks yourself, surely?
01:26 eythian and a different database
01:27 seneca how do you specify a different database when reverting?
01:28 eythian edit the copy of koha-conf.xml
01:28 seneca I guess I don't really understand how this all works, then
01:29 seneca if I make a backup copy of my koha-dev dir, and edit the "live" one to name the db something different, then a new db will be set up when I revert?
01:30 seneca sorry I'm dense on this
01:30 eythian reverting does nothing special, it just changes the code
01:30 eythian it doesn't touch the database
01:30 seneca ok...
01:30 mtj seneca: you need to do a little reading, before you tackle this problem...
01:31 eythian you would need to make a copy of the database to avoid messing with the production one
01:31 seneca point me to the docs, mtj
01:31 seneca ok, but I do that through mysql, right? or do I just edit something in the koha-conf.xml?
01:31 mtj *dont* start hacking on your current system, prep a test system - and hack on that
01:32 seneca thanks, mtj. ;)
01:32 eythian well, you need to copy the database. So do a mysqldump and load that into a new database.
01:32 mtj you n eed your live system running - to compare your test system too, anyhow
01:32 seneca my current system is a vm that was last backed up yesterday, so if I totally hose it, I don't lose that much (and trust me, our circulation isn't that high...)
01:33 eythian that's good :)
01:34 seneca ok, I think I see what you're saying about the db now, eythian
01:35 seneca if I dump the current db into another db and then refer to that new db in the koha-dev/etc/koha-conf.xml file's <database> section, then reverts I do will not affect the "current" db
01:35 eythian yeah
01:36 eythian although, reverts won't touch the db anyway
01:36 seneca I thought you were saying earlier that if I edit the db name in the koha-conf.xml, it would make a new db
01:36 eythian but poking around trying to fix things might
01:36 seneca right, but the new code would touch the db
01:36 seneca hehe
01:36 seneca right
01:37 mtj seneca: *you* make the new db
01:37 mtj koha-conf.xml just refers to that db
01:37 seneca so, related point: should I file a bug for this master ldap issue?
01:37 seneca got it, mtj
01:38 eythian seneca: wouldn't hurt
01:38 mtj and give your kohauser mysql privs to that new db , too
01:38 seneca right
01:38 eythian a lot of people don't have an ldap setup to test against
01:38 eythian so it's the kind of thing that doesn't get spotted always
01:38 seneca ah
01:39 mtj yeah, ldap bugs are tricky to track down
01:42 mtj ok, so i think we know what the problem is, and what the fix probably is
01:43 seneca maybe, unless 3.4.4 also has the ldap issue
01:46 seneca I'm checking the current bug list
01:51 mtj hmm, i dont think that commit is in 3.4.x
01:52 mtj not sure how to confirm that either . :/
01:52 seneca which commit?
01:52 wahanui which commit is it?
01:56 eythian mtj: git branch --contains -a <commit-id>
01:57 eythian or something like that
01:57 wahanui i heard something like that was sticking in nengard's mind
01:59 mtj eythian: ah, cheers!
02:00 mtj i did at novice equiv. of that...
02:00 mtj $ git checkout v3.04.04
02:01 mtj git log | grep 9a3950f673c28688a2ead6514c3320e34ec0cc4c | wc -l
02:01 eythian that is the hard way :)
02:01 mtj and good news, the problematic commit is not in 3.4.x
02:02 eythian keep in mind I haven't checked to see if that commit is the issue, I'm just guessing as it touches the Auth stuff
02:02 eythian (and a lot of it)
02:02 seneca I saw that as I looked through it
02:03 seneca ok
02:03 seneca bug report away, I'm ready to hose, I mean fix my system
02:03 seneca ;P
02:04 seneca ok, so theoretically, I should just be able to cd to kohaclone and "git checkout v3.04.04" (after backing up the db) and all will revert?
02:05 mtj seneca: if you are lucky , so can simply rewind your git repo to 3.4.4, and your 3.5 db will work ok
02:05 seneca I'm going to try it, but I'm backing up my 3.5 db now
02:05 mtj yep, pretty much
02:06 seneca but if anything hoses too bad, I'm lazy enough to just restore the vm backup
02:07 mtj yay! lazy++
02:07 lastnode hi. so i demod koha to the librarian yesterday adn she is interested to know more. is there a recommended koha demo install i can link her to?
02:07 seneca I'm a sysadmin
02:07 lastnode also, is htere a part of the documentation aimed at newbies
02:07 seneca goes with the territory
02:07 lastnode some of it is pretty technical
02:08 mtj lastnode: http://koha-community.org/demo/
02:14 seneca this db is hug
02:14 seneca e
02:14 lastnode thanks mtj
02:14 lastnode yeah ive been there
02:14 seneca It has to finish before my helpers here go to bed! ;)
02:15 seneca alright
02:15 seneca backup made
02:17 seneca "git checkout v3.04.04" eh?
02:18 seneca from the kohaclone dir?
02:18 seneca no git branch commands needed?
02:19 eythian no, just checkout
02:19 seneca here goes - everyone else, consider this research ;)
02:22 seneca alright
02:22 seneca good news, I can access the staff client via ldap again
02:22 seneca bad news, the perms problem is still there
02:23 eythian OK, then it's _definitely_ something in your setup
02:23 eythian because there would have been yelling or screaming already if 3.4 wasn't working
02:23 seneca yeah
02:23 eythian I'd try resetting all your sysprefs
02:24 lastnode http://www.pakban.net/koha/tut/newbie.html <- is this newbie guide current?
02:25 eythian hmm, I suspect it's a bit old
02:25 seneca disabling ldap auth fixes the perms problem
02:26 eythian @later tell brooke you need to stick a date or version on http://www.pakban.net/koha/tut/newbie.html
02:26 huginn eythian: The operation succeeded.
02:26 lastnode im looking for a guide for an administrator
02:26 lastnode most guides start with install
02:26 eythian what sort of administrator?
02:26 seneca so, I have to figure out what changed with the ldap functionality between my old version (3.2.something) and newer stuff
02:26 lastnode i just want an admin guide (very basic) i can link a non0technical person to
02:26 lastnode a new librarian
02:26 lastnode who is still learning
02:26 eythian ok, so working with the adminstration functions within Koha?
02:27 lastnode yes
02:27 eythian there's the manual, it's not really a guide though. I'm not sure what else there is, but it's not something I've looked for.
02:27 eythian seneca: yeah. It sounds pretty odd.
02:30 seneca anyone know of any up-to-date ldap auth docs for 3.4 and newer?
02:31 rangi seneca: random fevered question, there are 2 users eh? ie ldap isn't making one whn u login and trying to use that, which has no permissions?
02:31 rangi are = aren't
02:31 seneca hey rangi
02:31 seneca still sick, eh?
02:32 seneca yes, I do have my ldap setup replicating users in koha
02:32 rangi yeah dunno what this is, but it sux
02:32 rangi maybe there are 2?
02:32 rangi one with perms, one without?
02:32 seneca and updating info in koha everytime the users log into koha
02:32 seneca but that's still only one account in koha
02:33 rangi im wondering if its not matching
02:33 eythian seneca: have you double checked that
02:33 eythian it would make sense
02:33 rangi so making one, or updating the wrong one
02:33 seneca the way I understood it, koha checked the user/passwd against the ldap server, then applied perms according to the koha user's settings
02:34 seneca double-checked that there's only one account in koha? yeah
02:34 eythian seneca: that is what happens. But maybe it's not happening right for some reason.
02:34 seneca via my multiple db queries during this troubleshooting
02:34 rangi how'd u check that?
02:35 seneca well, I can see that there aren't two users with the same name, number, etc.
02:35 rangi wont have same number
02:35 rangi might not have same name
02:35 eythian may have the same userid
02:35 seneca then how can I check?
02:36 rangi put a warn in the module
02:36 seneca ?
02:36 rangi to dump the borrowernumber
02:36 seneca more programming I can't do :(
02:36 rangi check its the same as the one who has permissions
02:37 rangi or
02:37 seneca ok, so the userid for my account is lakab
02:37 seneca wouldn't there have to be two lakabs?
02:37 rangi maybe maybe not
02:37 eythian maybe, but keep in mind that things aren't working right, so there are no guarentees.
02:37 rangi delete the borrower in koha
02:38 rangi switch on ldap
02:38 rangi login
02:38 seneca if I type "lakab" in the username field when logging in, it's going to try to log in "lakab" right? (unless there's something REALLY wrong...)
02:38 rangi sure
02:38 rangi but it might not make/use the right borrower
02:38 seneca I'll try that rangi
02:39 seneca but I'll have to login via the OPAC to create the user lakab in koha
02:39 rangi yes
02:39 seneca so that then I can grant permissions to lakab to access the staff client
02:39 rangi yep
02:39 seneca and OPAC logins via ldap have always worked all along
02:39 seneca so what would I be testing, exactly?
02:40 rangi opac logins dont use permissions
02:40 seneca right...
02:40 seneca so what would I be testing?
02:40 rangi checking that ldap is not making a new user
02:40 rangi but using the one that already exists
02:40 seneca but ldap is supposed to make a new user...
02:41 rangi not if one exists
02:41 seneca right
02:41 seneca which it won't if I delete it... what am I missing
02:41 seneca sorry!
02:41 seneca I'm not seeing what you're seeing :)
02:41 rangi getting to a known clean state
02:42 rangi no user in koha
02:42 rangi make sure u can't login without ldap
02:42 seneca ok
02:42 rangi then switch ldap on
02:42 seneca I was missing that step
02:43 seneca ok, my user is deleted and ldap is off
02:43 seneca can't log into staff
02:43 seneca (of course)
02:43 rangi checked in db no user with ur userid?
02:44 seneca can't log into OPAC
02:44 seneca checking db
02:44 seneca ...
02:45 seneca empty set
02:45 seneca lakab does not exist
02:45 seneca turning on ldap
02:46 seneca lakab can log in OPAC, so koha checked correctly against ldap and then created the matching koha account
02:46 rangi check db to make sure
02:46 seneca the the db says there still isn't a userid of lakab...!
02:47 rangi theres the issue
02:47 seneca but the staff client shows lakab as a patron account
02:47 rangi is userid ur matchpoint?
02:47 seneca why do the db and staff client disagree?
02:47 rangi in ur ldap config?
02:48 rangi whats the borrowernumber of the user
02:48 rangi will be in url
02:48 rangi query that borrower in db
02:49 seneca ok, userid isn't set for this user
02:50 rangi theres the issue
02:50 seneca but cardnumber is
02:50 rangi if thats ur matchpoint
02:50 seneca where is that set?
02:51 rangi what is ur matchpoint in ur ldap config?
02:51 seneca weird
02:51 seneca that does seem to be it
02:51 seneca maybe
02:51 rangi what is ur matchpoint in ur ldap config?
02:52 seneca is that the mapping section in koha-conf.xml?
02:52 rangi yes
02:52 seneca userid is mapped to "cn" in the ldap server
02:52 rangi im on phone so can't look
02:52 seneca and cardnumber isn't mapped to anything
02:53 seneca however, in the db, cardnumber gets set, but userid doesn't..
02:53 eythian rangi or someone, does this look wrong to you? (with flagsrequired directly in the haspermissions call):
02:53 eythian || haspermission( $uid, { flagsrequired => { acquisition => q{*} } } )
02:53 rangi are you sure thats the same user u deleted?
02:53 seneca yeah
02:53 seneca new user number
02:53 eythian I'm 99% sure that's not right, and I've seen it in two places
02:54 rangi hmm
02:54 seneca and users with userids set do react to changing perms
02:54 rangi so if u set userid in the edit screen and set permissions can u login?
02:54 seneca users without userids set don't, I think
02:55 seneca let me try
02:55 rangi yeah so ur ldapserv is not handing out cn it looks like
02:55 rangi or its not beingset (but other stuff is)
02:56 rangi eythian: looks wrong to me
02:56 eythian rangi: cool
02:56 seneca ok
02:56 seneca problem
02:56 seneca I manually set userid
02:56 seneca for lakab
02:57 seneca in the gui
02:57 seneca verified it in the db
02:57 seneca and I still can't log in to the staff client
02:57 seneca ldap is on
02:57 rangi set permissions?
02:57 seneca oh wait...
02:57 seneca its' late...
02:57 seneca it's
02:58 rangi need at least catalogue
02:58 seneca yeah
02:58 seneca perms set, still no change
02:58 seneca though there is the question of whay the mapping for userid isn't going to userid
02:58 rangi well im out of ideas
02:58 seneca but is going to cardnumber...
02:59 rangi yeah
02:59 seneca hehe
02:59 seneca thanks anyway, rangi
02:59 rangi its def a setup thing
02:59 rangi but tricky to track without programming skill
02:59 seneca yeah
03:00 seneca we'd gladly pay someone to poke around on our system if someone was so inclined
03:00 rangi ask me tomorrow
03:00 rangi :)
03:00 seneca heh
03:00 seneca good luck, man
03:01 seneca er woman
03:01 seneca er or
03:01 seneca who knows
03:01 seneca it's the internet
03:01 seneca feel better
03:01 bug seneca: rangi is a man :P
03:01 seneca :)
03:01 * rangi wanders off again
03:01 seneca drink fluids
03:01 seneca etc
03:34 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6824] Basket permissions not looked up correctly <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6824>
03:34 eythian hey guys....new patch for y'all to sign off on :D
04:23 seneca eythian, still around?
04:24 seneca I think I figured it out
04:24 seneca our ldap server is a Novell eDirectory server
04:24 seneca previously, cn was the attribute for usernames
04:25 seneca apparently, sometime recently, Novell adopted the ldap standard "uid"
04:26 seneca changing "cn" to "uid" in the mapping section of koha-conf.xml seems to have resolved the perms issue
04:26 seneca that failure caused insanely odd problems
04:27 eythian cool
04:27 seneca so yeah, I'm assuming the koha ldap auth plumbing is a little complex...
04:27 seneca thanks for all your help
04:27 eythian Yeah, it is. Maybe it needs more diagnostic messages.
04:27 seneca a nice side effect is that I'm now running the stable 3.4.4
04:27 eythian cool
04:28 eythian that'll be easier to keep running
04:28 seneca well, that might not be koha's fault
04:28 seneca the ldap server wasn't giving errors
04:28 seneca it just wasn't returning a cn to map to userid
04:28 seneca so userid didn't get set upon account creation
04:28 seneca and no error was given
04:28 eythian ah right
04:29 seneca userid was just left blank
04:29 seneca however, there is some bit flipped in koha somewhere when that happens
04:29 seneca that gets stuck
04:29 seneca b/c even manually creating the userid later does not enable perms
04:30 seneca it seems like, with ldap anyway, that has to be set at account creation or not at all
04:30 seneca ah, plumbing
04:30 eythian Well, koha's not complex enough to have things that get stuck. It's either in the database or not at all.
04:30 seneca I wonder what the sticking point is, then
04:31 seneca maybe as rangi said, it was something disagreeing between the db and ldap
04:31 seneca even if manually set
04:31 seneca not separate accounts, but something else...
04:31 eythian Maybe your old system was mapping more things and so those were used to load the correct record, but the new ones were loading the incorrect record and so had no permissions.
04:31 seneca it's late, though, and I can think about this later
04:31 rangi thts cos it was matching userid to cn
04:32 seneca hey rangi
04:32 seneca shouldn't you be resting or something?
04:32 rangi so it wont be looking up the right borrower
04:32 rangi it will be using a null borrower
04:32 rangi with no perms
04:32 seneca so even if I set the userid manually, it still couldn't map to cn
04:33 rangi exactly
04:33 seneca b/c cn wasn't returning the right thing
04:33 rangi yep
04:33 seneca ok - I get that, but then why were the already-working accounts still working?
04:33 seneca accounts that had permissions before the upgrade a month or so ago could still get in
04:33 seneca oh!
04:34 seneca they had their userids set in koha already
04:34 seneca so I bet, when ldap failed to produce a cn
04:34 seneca koha just internally authed them
04:34 rangi yip
04:34 seneca it all makes sense now
04:34 rangi that would be my guess too
04:34 seneca wow, was I just really thick there?
04:34 rangi naw
04:34 rangi really hard to spot
04:35 seneca thanks for your brains, eythian, rangi and mtj
04:35 rangi but I had a hunch it was matvhpointd
04:35 seneca if I can donate some beer somewhere, let me know ;)
04:35 rangi :)
04:35 eythian I'll be at kohacon, so there's good ;)
04:35 seneca in India?
04:35 seneca I wish!
04:35 * rangi can't swallow without pain so ill take a rain cheque :)
04:35 seneca geez
04:35 seneca tonsils?
04:36 rangi yeah, last time this happened I ended up in hospital maybe this time they'll take the bloody things out
04:37 seneca yeah - I used to get strep throat yearly when I went back to school and around all those germy kids (I'm a teacher)
04:37 rangi I have 2 germy kids :)
04:37 seneca the doctor blamed my tonsils but wouldn't remove them
04:37 seneca hehe
04:38 seneca I guess they finally got used to the germs b/c it stopped
04:38 seneca but good luck to you
04:38 rangi thanks glad u are back in business :)
04:38 seneca me too
04:39 seneca and I have learned a ridiculous amount about koha in the last two days
04:39 seneca and kudos to koha for being resilient enough to stand several upgrades and downgrades on the same db without hosing itself
04:39 seneca go FLOSS! ;)
04:40 seneca out of interest, where are you eythian and rangi?
04:41 eythian seneca: Wellington, NZ
04:41 eythian (both of us)
04:41 rangi we work together
04:41 seneca ah
04:41 seneca haha
04:41 seneca well, you do it well
04:41 rangi ur in the us?
04:42 seneca I am
04:42 seneca Dayton, OH
04:42 rangi ah cool
04:42 seneca I sysadmin and teach at mvschool.com
04:42 rangi I've been to athens, columbus, cleveland and toledo
04:42 seneca we switched to koha 2 years ago when I became Dir. of Tech
04:42 rangi not dayton yet ;)
04:42 rangi sweet
04:43 seneca wow, that's all around me!
04:43 seneca why so many Ohio trips?
04:43 rangi my wife is from pittsburgh
04:43 seneca ah
04:43 seneca cool
04:43 rangi conference in toledo
04:43 seneca well, if you find yourself back around these parts, let me know
04:43 seneca I totally owe you
04:44 rangi rock and roll hall of fame in cleveland :)
04:44 seneca and you can take something back for eythian
04:44 rangi :)
04:44 seneca love that place
04:44 rangi yeah its neat
04:46 seneca alright
04:46 seneca I'm supposed to be up and on a run in 5 and half hours
04:46 seneca goodnight all!
04:47 eythian heh, g'luck :)
04:47 seneca (or morning)
04:47 seneca thanks
04:47 seneca ciao
04:56 * Oak waves
05:10 francharb hello #koha
06:00 alex_a hello all
06:03 cait eythian: around?
06:03 eythian yarp
06:03 cait :)
06:04 cait I am looking at your fix for 6824
06:04 cait you should check 6390
06:04 cait I think it's a bug too - for our libraries it is
06:04 cait but it's intention
06:05 cait perhaps you could check edgar's patch or come up with another solution? it would be really great
06:06 eythian cait: have a look at the patch, it's not intentional.
06:06 eythian It's definitely a bug
06:06 eythian someone was using the wrong style to check the permissions, so it always failed.
06:07 eythian I didn't actually change the logic, just made it written right.
06:08 cait hm
06:08 cait weir
06:08 cait d
06:08 cait you see I filed the other bug and wanted to fix it but was told it's like it should be
06:08 eythian yeah. Not supposed to be like that :)
06:08 eythian and, to me it makes no sense.
06:08 cait for me neither
06:09 eythian Maybe restrict by branch if independent branches is on, but that seems all you'd need.
06:09 cait small libraries, not hiding their baskets from each other
06:09 cait edgar has invested time in a different solution, by sys pref
06:09 cait I think if you really want to do it it should be a perm
06:11 eythian that patch removes the permissions, so anyone with access to the staff interface can view baskets.
06:11 eythian or at least, anyone with access to any part of the acq system
06:11 eythian hmm
06:11 eythian maybe that doesn't matter
06:12 cait hm I think there is a permission manage baskets
06:12 cait but the acq permissions are a bit confusing
06:12 cait nicole has a bug for that somewhere
06:13 eythian yeah, they are a little
06:43 cait time to go
06:44 cait cya
06:45 reiveune hello
06:50 Oak hello reiveune :)
07:08 reiveune hi Oak
07:08 Oak :)
07:12 hdl hi
07:20 kf good morning #koha :)
07:26 hdl hi kf
07:27 kf hi hdl
07:29 Oak Guten Morgen kf :)
07:29 Oak hello hdl
07:29 Oak :)
07:29 hdl hi all
07:34 kf Salaam Oak
08:07 eythian wahanui: xslt
08:07 wahanui eythian: huh?
08:07 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6496] authors appearing incorrectly in OPAC and Staff Client <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6496>
08:07 eythian wahanui: xslt is a maze of twisty turny passages, all alike.
08:07 wahanui OK, eythian.
08:07 kf :)
08:12 kf eythian: still at work?
08:12 eythian yep, not for much longer though
08:14 rangi poor eythian has spent the last 2 days doing the work of 3 people, as im sick at home
08:15 kf oh :(
08:15 kf rangi: we wondered where you have been, feeling better?
08:16 rangi as long as i keep taking the drugs, if my throat is still sore tomorrow, im off to the dr, i waited too long last time and ended up in hospital
08:16 kf hmpf!
08:23 kf yes, don't do that again
08:25 rangi http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/5495755/Text-tracks-down-motorway-samaritan
08:35 kf :)
08:38 * eythian --> home
08:41 Oak @wunder islamabad
08:41 huginn Oak: The current temperature in Islamabad, Pakistan is 35.0�C (1:00 PM PKT on August 31, 2011). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 53%. Dew Point: 24.0�C. Pressure: 29.71 in 1006 hPa (Steady).
08:41 kf @wunder Konstanz
08:41 huginn kf: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 16.0�C (10:38 AM CEST on August 31, 2011). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 79%. Dew Point: 12.0�C. Pressure: 29.93 in 1013.4 hPa (Steady).
08:44 kmkale Namaskar #koha
09:02 kf hi kmkale
10:11 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6825] OpacNav menu hide user menu on opac-user.pl page <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6825>
10:23 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 5806] Search results display items for all locations when the SearchMyLibrary first system pref is activated <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5806>
11:25 BobB kmkale are you about?
11:36 BobB Hi jwagner
11:36 kmkale hi BobB
11:36 jwagner Hi BobB
11:37 BobB Koustubha! Hi there.
11:37 kmkale :)
11:37 BobB Do you have two minutes? I have some questions about Thane?
11:37 kmkale sure BobB
11:37 BobB How far is VPM from Thane Railway?
11:37 Agent_Dani o/
11:37 kmkale about 5 minutes walk
11:38 kmkale very near the rail tracks
11:38 BobB Truly? Just 5 mins?
11:38 kmkale yup
11:39 BobB We are thinking of staying near Kurla, and catching the train to Thane each day. Is that practical?
11:39 kmkale Dont do that bob.
11:39 BobB We'd be travelling against the rush hour.
11:39 BobB Don't do it?
11:39 kmkale Local train are always full
11:40 kmkale no matter the direction
11:40 kmkale the ruch is wayy too much
11:40 kmkale even getting in the train is an ordeal
11:40 BobB ... and its too far to take a taxi, I think?
11:40 kmkale *rush
11:40 kmkale yes. quite expensive. also the road traffic is a killer
11:40 kmkale stay in Thane
11:41 BobB you sound quite definite about that?
11:41 kmkale Kurla is not a nice locality. Unless you stay in Bandra Kurla Complex
11:41 BobB It has a nice hotel. :)
11:41 kmkale Yes bob. I avoid train and road travel in mornings and evenings.
11:42 kmkale Which hotel?
11:42 BobB What's the best hotel in Thane?
11:42 kmkale United 21
11:42 BobB The hotel in Kurla is the Trident.
11:42 kmkale Aaahh. Thats a very good one.
11:42 kmkale Its in the Bandra Kurla Complex. Nice place
11:42 kmkale But the traffic from it to Kurla station is very very bad
11:43 BobB But we'd need to take a helicopter to get to Thane in the morning? I don't think that's realistic. :)
11:43 kmkale Its one of the worst few traffic spots in Mumbai.
11:44 BobB Oooh .. that's saying somethin'
11:44 kmkale I have to go to BKC frequently. I always schedule these meetings to start and finish in afternoon ;)
11:44 BobB OK, I'll look up United21. Thanks.
11:45 BobB Are there any holidays on 29/30 October or 5/6 November?
11:45 kmkale 1 min
11:45 BobB The weekends ..
11:45 kmkale let me look up a local calendar
11:45 BobB When is Diwali?
11:46 kmkale Diwali ends on
11:47 kmkale 28th October
11:47 kmkale After which we dont have any festivals
11:47 kmkale one min
11:48 BobB That's the Friday that we arrive. So the weekend will still be a holiday time, eh?
11:48 kmkale on 7th November its Bakri Eid.
11:48 BobB OK, we're gone long before then.
11:49 kmkale You arrive on 28th October then right?
11:49 kmkale Thats the last day of Diwali. You will see SOME fireworks :)
11:49 BobB Yes, very early: 02:40. Will stay that day near the airport, I think.
11:49 BobB Boom boom!
11:50 kmkale :) Its the biggest festivals in this part of India
11:50 BobB We should go to South Mumbai for that?
11:50 kmkale Nope. Anywhere will do..
11:50 BobB Cool. thanks.
11:50 kmkale Except Kurla maybe. Because its mostly Moslem community.
11:51 kmkale And BKC is a business district. Its deserted on holidays
11:51 BobB What's the format of the hackfest? Is Thursday 3 Nov. a hackfest day or a rest day?
11:52 kmkale 3rd Nov is a rest day
11:52 kmkale Planning a day trip
11:52 kmkale Elephanta Caves and bit of Mumbai
11:52 BobB OK, so we could have an excursion that day.
11:52 kmkale for those interested.
11:53 BobB We want to go out of Mumbai once. So either the weekend we arrive or on the rest day. We leave on Sunday 6 unfortunately. I have to get back for business here.
11:54 BobB Is Sanjay Ghandi park interesting from the Thane side?
11:55 kmkale Where would you like to go? What interestes you? May be I can suggest some places possible in a weekend..
11:55 BobB I'll do some research and let you know. Is Nasik too far?
11:55 BobB ... or Pune?
11:55 kmkale about 3 hrs nice drive
11:55 kmkale same with pune
11:56 BobB So possible. I read up and get back to you. Thanks!
11:56 kmkale OK.
11:56 BobB I'm really looking forward to visiting your country, Koustubha, if only briefly.
11:56 kmkale Hey there is too much to see in India. So take off more time ;)
11:57 BobB Wish I could. :)
11:58 kmkale Delhi, Taj, The Himalayas, Kerala, Royals of the Rajasthan, Korbet Tiger reserve, Kaziranga National Park, Kanyakumari, Kashmir, rameshwaram, I could go on all day :)
11:58 BobB Thanks for all that. We'll chat again soon.
12:05 kmkale BobB: for the weekend try Matheran or Mahabaleshwar. Both great hill stations. Or if you prefer the sea, try Diu-Daman or Murud-Janjira..
12:06 BobB Thank you! I'll investigate those.
12:08 kmkale Or you can try Ajanta -Ellora if you want some history
12:26 oleonard Hi #koha
12:48 oleonard Hi sekjal, tcohen
12:48 sekjal morning, oleonard
12:48 tcohen hi oleonard
12:49 * kf waves
13:11 kmkale hi kf
13:12 hdl hi sekjal
13:12 sekjal hi, hdl
13:12 hdl hi NateC
13:12 hdl hi tcohen and all
13:14 kmkale hi hdl & sekjal
13:16 trea o/
13:48 tcohen is there any documentation on the proposed API behind the solR move?
13:48 tcohen i'm interested in studing it to start thinking on a 'legacy' zera backend
13:48 tcohen s/zera/zebra/
13:49 paul_p tcohen, someone already did !
13:50 paul_p hi everybody
13:50 kf oh
13:50 tcohen hi paul_p, the zebra backend you mean? is implemented?
13:50 paul_p you should/could ask clrh & zeno tajoli. He sent us some things about that
13:50 kf so zebra can be kept?
13:50 paul_p well, it's a first attempt.
13:50 kf still very good news
13:50 paul_p (lack of communication...)
13:51 tcohen oh, i've just convinced my boss to spend some weeks working on that hahaha
13:51 paul_p tcohen, very good news !
13:51 paul_p it means you already have something, and you can improve it !
13:52 tcohen ok
13:52 tcohen i'll try to checkout that code
13:52 paul_p tcohen, just asked clrh to send you zeno mail (with the patches)
13:53 tcohen ok!
13:53 kf tcohen++
13:53 paul_p tcohen++
13:53 paul_p tajoli++
13:53 kf tajoli++ :)
13:53 kf communicaton++ hehe
13:53 paul_p right.
13:54 * paul_p really expect to send a weekly "RM news" on koha-devel for 3.8/4.0 !
13:54 kf ah, didn't mean it like that
13:54 clrh hello
13:54 clrh tcohen: I was not here but I ear that you talk about zebra and solr abstraction
13:54 clrh great
13:54 kf hi claire :)
13:55 kf paul_p: meant it positive, a good irc moment
13:55 tcohen clrh, i asked if there was any doc of the proposed API
13:55 clrh I can tell you that zeno tajoli works on it
13:55 clrh I have a long mail about it, I could maybe send it to you
13:55 tcohen that would be great
13:56 clrh did you have a look to our C4::Search implementation yet?
13:56 tcohen no I didn't
13:56 paul_p I'll drop a mail to koha-devel about this baby "working group..."
13:56 clrh I am a little busy now, I can send you the zeno mail and some information about this
13:57 clrh ok paul_p thanks
14:18 pelletiermaxime hey everyone. We are still using 3.2 and thinking of porting all our changes to the latest version to get it ready by november. Would you rebase on 3.4 or 3.6 ? How stable do you think 3.6.0 will be ?
14:19 pelletiermaxime well, that was a long series of question
14:19 pelletiermaxime -_-
14:20 oleonard I wouldn't recommend porting changes specifically for 3.4.x. New stuff goes into master (which will be 3.6), and bugfixes get cherry-picked into 3.4.x
14:21 oleonard 3.4.x will not get any new features, so even if you contributed new features based on 3.4.x, they wouldn't be accepted.
14:22 hdl oleonard: i think they are a library which want the system to be as stable as possible.... and not willing to rebase more than needed. pelletiermaxime who are you ?
14:22 pelletiermaxime yeah... hoping we can really contribute big features this time
14:22 pelletiermaxime working for libeo/sys-tech
14:22 pelletiermaxime 22 libraries
14:22 hdl ok.. nice.
14:23 hdl if you want to contribute something back then... oleonard recommandation is accurate.
14:23 pelletiermaxime oleonard: thanks for the opinion. Pretty much what I tought
14:23 hdl But be advised that it could require some work rebasing.
14:23 hdl pelletiermaxime: what kind of features ?
14:24 pelletiermaxime yeah, we know this will take us probably a couple of months
14:24 hdl have you considered filling out an RFC, an enh bug.
14:24 pelletiermaxime too many to list, really
14:24 hdl so that it could be known...
14:24 pelletiermaxime we will probably have more time to do it soon
14:25 hdl You might be amazed by the stuff already in pipes of one or the other.
14:25 hdl So could be interesting to share ideas on list...
14:25 hdl koha-devel
14:25 wahanui koha-devel is probably the best list
14:25 hdl on wiki.
14:25 hdl rfcs ?
14:25 wahanui rfcs are http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Category:RFCs
14:25 kf pelletiermaxime: good news :)
14:26 hdl and bug.koha-community.org
14:26 kf pelletiermaxime: if you can't do it all at once, start with some smaller featuers perhaps, easy testable stuff, with test plans and documentation
14:26 kf the deadline for new feateus into 3.6 is september 22nd
14:28 pelletiermaxime reading about the hourly loans bug 5549. Was this merged into master ?
14:28 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5549 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, ian.walls, ASSIGNED , Hourly Loans
14:29 sekjal pelletiermaxime: no, not yet
14:29 libsysguy but I signed off on it
14:29 libsysguy :)
14:29 sekjal it's still undergoing quality assurance
14:29 sekjal yes, it's much closer now
14:29 sekjal very encouraging
14:29 sekjal libsysguy has been brave enough to run it in production
14:29 sekjal which is a great way to shake out bugs
14:29 libsysguy yeah exactly
14:30 libsysguy there were a few
14:30 libsysguy but not many
14:30 sekjal libsysguy: all addressed?
14:30 pelletiermaxime well, we have been using something like that for many months :/
14:30 libsysguy yes sekjal
14:30 pelletiermaxime but we could never contribute the code
14:30 libsysguy rangi and I took care of them
14:30 pelletiermaxime hoping to changes things around here
14:31 sekjal pelletiermaxime: cool
14:31 libsysguy im hoping hourly gets pushed to master by 3.6 so I can finally tract master in production again
14:32 sekjal libsysguy: can you summarize the testing you've done? What areas of the system you're using, and which may not be relevant to your library, but would still be impacted by a change to circulation like that?
14:32 sekjal for example, messaging
14:32 sekjal or fines accural
14:33 sekjal no rush, or anything
14:33 libsysguy so let me see if i understand. You want me to summarize all the testing I've done or just the testing on hourly?
14:33 sekjal libsysguy: just on hourly
14:33 sekjal any data you can provide me will making QA'ing easier
14:33 sekjal though, I suppose I could just run my own battery, and ping you if I come across anything
14:33 libsysguy gotcha, Yeah I can probably whip something like that up. I'll have to get my circulation librarian in on it though
14:34 libsysguy I thought rangi had come up with a .t file for hourly
14:34 libsysguy but maybe im mistaken
14:34 pelletiermaxime Has something like Selenium ever been considered to do test cases for features likes that ?
14:35 sekjal libsysguy: that sounds like something he'd do
14:36 libsysguy heh
14:40 pelletiermaxime Looks like the plan is going to be to use 3.6 and try to send features for 3.8
14:44 francharb is there anyone who knows why you can choose "koha module = catalog" in the tool "notices"?
14:44 francharb any exemple would be great!
14:44 hdl oleonard: do you ?
14:45 * oleonard doesn't
14:46 francharb thanks oleonard, anyoneelse?
14:47 francharb actually, i cant even see a use case..
14:49 sekjal francharb: send a notice whenever a biblio is updated?
14:50 hdl sekjal: rss could be used in that cas.
14:50 francharb if you want to turn koha into a spamming robot, why not! ;) ;) ;)
15:03 reiveune bye
15:08 vfernandes hi Koha community
15:08 vfernandes can you guys help me out with one problem
15:09 vfernandes there is any known bug on the cataloguing modification log?
15:10 vfernandes when searching the modification log of one record it appears some modifications that aren't correct
15:11 jcamins_away vfernandes: is it possible you're seeing log entries about both item records and biblios?
15:11 vfernandes it's possible... but when entering the object it searches both in records and items?
15:12 jcamins_away That used to be a bug, at least.
15:13 vfernandes ther is any patche to solve it?
15:13 jcamins_away I don't know.
15:14 jcamins_away Maybe.
15:14 jcamins_away You could search the bug database.
15:14 jcamins_away What version of Koha are you on?
15:14 kf paul_p: still around?
15:14 paul_p kf, yep
15:14 vfernandes i've checked out and the problem is waht you said
15:15 kf your last patch - talks about due_date but adds issuedate
15:15 vfernandes it show bib and item modifications details
15:15 kf bug 4051
15:15 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4051 minor, PATCH-Sent, ---, paul.poulain, ASSIGNED , add columns to overdues export
15:15 vfernandes i'm using 3.2.6
15:15 paul_p yikes. It's issuedate, you're right. date due was already here.
15:16 jcamins_away vfernandes: ah. Ouch. I suspect it's been fixed in 3.4.x and Master.
15:16 paul_p will fix the patch comment & resent it
15:16 kf paul_p: thought you might have it open still, so using irc :)
15:17 jcamins_away bug 6102?
15:17 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6102 minor, PATCH-Sent, ---, gmcharlt, RESOLVED FIXED, Bib record log viewer displaying wrong biblionumber entries
15:18 jcamins_away Or maybe part of bug 6014.
15:18 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6014 major, PATCH-Sent, ---, paul.poulain, ASSIGNED , Log viewer needs permissions
15:18 paul_p kf++
15:18 paul_p thx kf, patch re-uploaded
15:18 kf commenting on 6070 now .)
15:21 vfernandes i think that's it
15:21 vfernandes :)
15:21 vfernandes jcamins++
15:22 vfernandes i'll try the bugfix now
15:24 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 4051] add columns to overdues export <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4051>
15:27 vfernandes it didn't solve my problem :|
15:29 alex_a ciao #koha
15:38 kf bye #koha
16:11 wizzyrea whaddup peeps
16:15 sekjal http://www.millikin.edu/staley/about/peeps/PublishingImages/peep_dogshow.jpg ?
16:19 wizzyrea lulz
16:27 jcamins_away Does anyone know anything about a pre-configured Koha Amazon Machine Image?
16:27 jcamins_away I was just asked about it, and it doesn't look to me like it exists.
16:28 wizzyrea I haven't seen such a thing
16:28 wizzyrea maybe turnkey linux has one?
16:28 wizzyrea seems unlikely tho
16:28 sekjal jcamins_away: I don't think there is one out there yet. would be easy enough to create and publish, though, I think
16:29 sekjal and if this whole Testing VM thing gets off the ground, part of it's requirements are easy importation into Amazon
16:29 jcamins sekjal: okay, that's what I thought.
16:29 rhcl sekjal: I have a meeting w/ the faculty @ 2:00pm local.
16:30 sekjal rhcl: nice!
16:30 cait sekjal++
16:31 rhcl I still only have 2 out of 4 projects they requested. I'm considering adding GLPI to the list. http://www.glpi-project.org/?lang=en,
16:31 rhcl some additional features in it that I'd personally like to see, but otherwise great project
16:32 aarkerio hi! where is the template in localhost:8080? I mean the login screen
16:33 aarkerio I need change some HTML code
16:33 wizzyrea such as?
16:35 aarkerio I want to add some links in login page
16:35 wizzyrea ah easy enough to do that with jquery without editing the template
16:38 aarkerio but where is the html code of login?
16:38 wizzyrea koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules
16:38 libsysguy aarkerio: that would make it very hard to update if you modified that file
16:39 wizzyrea ^^
16:39 libsysguy much easier to do what wizzyrea says and use jquery
16:40 aarkerio don't worry, I can handle it
16:40 wizzyrea fair enough
16:40 * wizzyrea remembers a time when she said that exact same thing.
16:40 * wizzyrea also remembers wearying of the constant maintenance
16:41 * wizzyrea shrugs
16:41 wizzyrea it's your time ;)
16:41 libsysguy ^^
16:46 aarkerio Found!! /intranet/htdocs/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/auth.tt
16:46 wizzyrea yay!
16:46 wizzyrea ah you're in a standard install.
16:49 libsysguy aarkerio: why a standard install?
16:51 jcamins libsysguy: probably so he can use the packages.
16:51 jcamins Which, by the way, freaking rock.
16:51 jcamins eythian++
16:52 jcamins liw++
16:53 sekjal aarkerio: if you wanted to make this a data issue instead of a template issue, you could create a new system preference that'll let you put additional HTML on the Auth page, much like we do for OpacMainUserBlock and OpacNav
16:53 sekjal that would be something that could be easily folded back into Koha, and save you having to maintain a local customization
16:55 * liw blushes
16:55 wizzyrea :)
17:54 seneca can anyone sum up the relation between biblionumber, itemnumber and biblioitemnumber for me? :)
17:54 seneca or point me to docs that do :)
17:55 cait biblionumber to biblioitemnumber is a 1:1 relationship
17:55 cait you could combine both into one table
17:55 cait it's separate for historical reasons
17:55 seneca given to bibliographic entries?
17:56 cait yes
17:56 seneca but they are different numbers, yes?
17:56 cait yes
17:56 cait different numbers
17:56 seneca are they both used?
17:56 cait you can find the biblionumber in the biblioitems table
17:56 seneca and items table, right?
17:56 cait yes
17:57 seneca sorry, I asked two questions there
17:57 seneca which were you answering? :)
17:57 cait both yes
17:57 seneca ha
17:57 cait biblioitems and biblio contain bibliographic information
17:57 cait and items the item information
17:57 cait all 3 tables are used
17:58 seneca ok...
17:58 seneca so which number do itemnumbers get attached to?
17:58 seneca or is it both?
17:58 cait what do you want to do?
17:58 seneca heh
17:59 seneca I'm just trying to get my head around it
17:59 cait itemnumber is the primary key for the items table
17:59 seneca I do have a problem I need to solve, but this is research ;)
17:59 cait you can identify an item with this number
17:59 seneca right
17:59 cait and the items table also has the biblionumber
17:59 cait perhaps biblioitemnumber too
18:01 seneca so, items are linked to their bibliographic entries via the biblionumber?
18:01 cait yes
18:01 seneca got it
18:02 cait :)
18:02 seneca and any items linked to the same bilbiographic entry will have the same biblionumber
18:02 seneca if I were searching the db, say
18:05 sekjal the items table has both biblionumber and biblioitemnumber fields
18:05 sekjal which *should* always be the same
18:05 sekjal unless you're doing something manually in the DB
18:06 sekjal biblio has the title, author and copyright date
18:06 sekjal biblioitems has the ISBN, ISSN, LCCN and the actual MARC and MARCXML data
18:10 seneca wait a minute, sekjal
18:11 seneca are you saying that biblionumber and biblioitemnumber should be the same number?
18:12 sekjal seneca: yes, generally speaking, they're always the same
18:12 seneca hmm
18:12 seneca that's not the case in any records in this library...
18:12 seneca I don't think
18:12 libsysguy because they get created at the same time rihgt sekjal?
18:13 sekjal libsysguy: yes, if the creation is done through normal channels
18:13 libsysguy ok thats what I thought
18:13 seneca hmmm
18:13 sekjal seneca: is this library upgrading from pre 3.0?
18:13 seneca describe normal channels
18:13 libsysguy the importbiblios script
18:14 sekjal seneca: Tools -> Stage MARC records for Import, manually created or Z39.50 created record, or bulkmarcimport.pl
18:14 seneca hmm
18:14 seneca let me check that
18:14 libsysguy sekjal on the subject of importing
18:15 libsysguy did you tell Margo the overlay functions were working?
18:15 sekjal seneca: if you did a data reload at any point, and did a "delete from" on biblio and a "truncate biblioitems", let's say, that would break biblionumber/biblioitemnumber synchronicity as well
18:16 sekjal libsysguy: the matching rule bug (6713) has been squashed as of 08-13-2011
18:16 sekjal and you can do import rules on 001
18:16 sekjal I recommend that she remove the offset and length params from the matching rule
18:19 seneca ok sekjal, I checked the record for a book that was input last year via the z39.50 search function
18:20 seneca biblioitemnumber is 53923 and biblionumber is 55253
18:20 seneca they're relatively close... but not the same
18:20 seneca is this a problem?
18:20 sekjal seneca: no, it's not a problem
18:21 sekjal it's just unusual
18:21 sekjal and something to be aware of
18:21 seneca well, I'm ok with unusual ;)
18:21 seneca but I'm seeing an odd problem since the 3.4.4 upgrade
18:21 seneca from 3.2.something
18:23 seneca in the OPAC, records created since the 3.4.4 upgrade are displaying on the search results page as "Availability: No items available:"
18:23 seneca though there is an item created
18:24 seneca and the row in ITEMS references the correct biblionumber for the record.
18:24 jcamins seneca: you need to run the rebuild_zebra.pl script using cron.
18:24 libsysguy just for the record sekjal we just tested that patch and it seems to be working with the matching rule
18:24 seneca and perhaps another symptom:
18:25 seneca in the marc record for this book, there is no "Item(s)" tab
18:25 seneca sorry, these books
18:25 sekjal libsysguy: patch for 6713?
18:26 libsysguy yes
18:26 seneca jcamins, what role does the zebra database play?
18:27 wizzyrea entries not in zebra = entries not displayed
18:27 jcamins ^^ what she said.
18:27 seneca what does the zebra database keep track of?
18:27 sekjal seneca: zebra is the basis for Koha's search. any biblio or item data you see on the search results pages comes from Zebra, instead of directly from the Koha database
18:27 seneca I'm assuming it doesn't just mirror the mysql db
18:27 libsysguy sadly no
18:28 seneca interesting, why the dual dbs?
18:28 jcamins seneca: they do completely different things.
18:29 seneca hmm
18:29 seneca they hold different data?
18:29 jcamins seneca: Zebra is basically a search engine, so its db is almost entirely indexes.
18:29 jcamins MySQL, on the other hand, is the canonical source for the data.
18:29 seneca ah, for speed, I assume
18:29 jcamins Right.
18:30 seneca got it
18:30 seneca but teh zebra db is synced to the mysql db via that script in cron
18:30 seneca er the
18:30 jcamins Right.
18:30 libsysguy basically
18:30 wizzyrea all good, we speak typo. ;)
18:30 seneca hehe
18:30 seneca good :)
18:31 sekjal seneca: yes, the misc/migration_tools/rebuild_zebra.pl script runs typically every 1 - 10 min, depending on your crontab choices
18:31 seneca is it in the system crontab, or a user?
18:31 seneca "usually" ;)
18:31 wizzyrea if you add a LOT of stuff, a longer interval might be better
18:31 sekjal seneca: user
18:31 wizzyrea well, actually I say that
18:31 wizzyrea is that true
18:31 wizzyrea ?
18:31 wizzyrea lol
18:32 libsysguy depends i guess
18:32 libsysguy a lot all at one time
18:32 libsysguy longer interval
18:32 jcamins wizzyrea: yes.
18:32 libsysguy a lot incrementally short is fine
18:32 sekjal wizzyrea: we've seen some difficulties come up if one process isn't complete before the next one kicks off
18:32 seneca we're small
18:32 wizzyrea ^^ that was my recollection
18:32 jcamins The problem is, rebuild_zebra doesn't use any sort of IPC to make sure that it's not deadlocking.
18:32 seneca we couldn't add a lot at one time if we tried
18:32 wizzyrea :)
18:33 seneca got it
18:33 libsysguy sekjal if its running as a cron process then it shouldn't kick off another one if one is already running right?
18:33 * sekjal 's next fun project is running rebuild_zebra.pl through NYTProf and looking for optimizations
18:33 wizzyrea sekjal++ good project
18:33 jcamins libsysguy: it does.
18:34 libsysguy oh...i didn't know that
18:34 jcamins libsysguy: however, if there's some way to get cron to know not to do that, it would be really useful.
18:34 seneca I couldn't find rebuild_zebra in any crontabs
18:34 seneca oddly
18:34 libsysguy crontab.example?
18:34 libsysguy in misc/cronjobs
18:34 sekjal oh, that's right! wizzyrea, I owe you a bug fix for bug 6801
18:34 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6801 major, P5, ---, ian.walls, NEW , C4::Overdues::checkoverdues returns all fields from biblio, biblioitems, items and issues
18:34 seneca let me look
18:35 wizzyrea :) yes, yes you do :)
18:35 wizzyrea a patch for that would make me squee.
18:37 seneca ok, I see an entry in crontab.example for rebuild_zebra
18:37 libsysguy yeah so I just copied that into my crontab
18:37 libsysguy err...koha's crontab
18:37 seneca but it's not in any user crontabs, I don't think
18:37 seneca is this a new requirment, possibly since 3.4.4?
18:37 libsysguy right you just have to paste it in there
18:37 libsysguy crontab -e
18:37 cait seneca: no it's old
18:38 cait when you are using zebra
18:38 jcamins seneca: no, it's been a requirement since 3.0.x.
18:38 seneca weird
18:38 seneca I wonder why it's not there now...
18:38 seneca I'm assuming these things USED to work correctly... ;)
18:39 seneca should I be able to run the relevant line in crontab.example manually?
18:39 seneca oh
18:39 seneca hold on
18:39 seneca nee the exports, I bet
18:39 seneca need
18:40 jcamins seneca: exactly right.
18:40 seneca ok
18:40 seneca I ran it
18:40 seneca exactly as it was in crontab.example
18:41 jcamins Did you get any output?
18:41 seneca but the book I'm testing with still mentions there are no items available
18:41 seneca none
18:41 seneca just a returned prompt
18:41 jcamins Run the following:
18:41 seneca and it only took 2-3 secs
18:41 jcamins kohaclone/misc/migration_tools/rebuild_zebra.pl -b -a -z -v
18:41 jcamins Does that give you any output?
18:42 seneca oh, right. the >/dev/null at the end of the line probably would kill output, eh?
18:42 seneca let me try without that
18:42 jcamins Heh.
18:42 jcamins Yeah, sorry, I didn't realize that was there.
18:42 seneca ok, remove the /dev/null changed nothing, but your -v flag did give output
18:43 jcamins Can you paste it into paste.koha-community.org?
18:43 seneca 0 records exported
18:43 jcamins That's it?
18:43 jcamins Okay, I suggest you reindex.
18:43 jcamins How many records do you have?
18:44 pastebot "seneca" at 64.128.125.59 pasted "output of rebuild_zebra" (31 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/26
18:44 jcamins Okay, the good news is it looks like it's running properly.
18:44 seneca well, I know I have at least two books with this current problem
18:45 jcamins I think if you reindex (add -r instead of -z), and then set up the cron jobs, that'll do it.
18:45 jcamins Total in the catalog, I mean.
18:45 seneca ~12k, I think
18:45 seneca let me reindex
18:46 seneca reindexing (I see now why you asked that....) ;)
18:47 sekjal wizzyrea: there you go
18:47 wizzyrea hehe
18:47 sekjal hopefully it will help
18:47 wizzyrea could you oh pretty please put that on our test DB? I could probably sign off on it if you did >.>
18:48 wizzyrea i don't have patrons with epic checkout lists in my test DB at the moment
18:48 wizzyrea my local test db
18:49 sekjal wizzyrea: if you wish, yes, I can put it there
18:50 wizzyrea i would like that very much
18:51 seneca done indexing, and it worked@
18:51 seneca er 1
18:51 seneca drat !
18:51 wizzyrea hehe YAY
18:52 seneca so, the rebuild_zebra in the cron should keep it up to date?
18:52 seneca indeed, wizzyrea :)
18:53 libsysguy ok so I am trying something that is new to me and I need a bit of help
18:53 libsysguy I am trying to set up zebra to let refworks use it
18:54 jcamins libsysguy: huh?
18:54 libsysguy well i need refworks to work with Koha
18:54 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6801] C4::Overdues::checkoverdues returns all fields from biblio, biblioitems, items and issues <http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6801>
18:54 libsysguy and they said they needed to connect to our server
18:55 libsysguy and I am pretty sure i set it up in the koha-conf file
18:55 libsysguy but im not entirely sure
18:55 wizzyrea oh z39.50
18:55 jcamins libsysguy: oh, you mean with Z39.50?
18:55 libsysguy perhaps?
18:56 jcamins libsysguy: did you see the no-server-side-work-necessary version?
18:56 jcamins jquery library?
18:56 wahanui jquery library is found at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/JQuery_Library
18:56 jcamins ^^ near the end of that page
18:56 libsysguy yeah that is in
18:57 libsysguy and refworks gives me a message that it won't work with Koha
18:57 jcamins Really?
18:57 libsysguy yes really
18:57 libsysguy so we called them
18:57 jcamins I believe you.
18:57 jcamins That was horror. ;)
18:57 libsysguy and they said they needed to index our catalog
18:57 libsysguy i was like o_0
18:57 cait ?
18:59 libsysguy my sentiments exactly cait
18:59 jcamins I guess they've decided to eliminate direct import.
19:00 jcamins Kind of absurd.
19:00 jcamins Well, very absurd.
19:00 jcamins Wait... wasn't there just a bug report about RIS being broken?
19:01 cait I think so
19:01 libsysguy several actually
19:01 cait but that's for when you want to export manually I think
19:01 cait so different probably?
19:01 * cait has never used refworks
19:01 libsysguy me either
19:01 wizzyrea gmcharlt would know
19:02 wizzyrea re RIS
19:02 jcamins cait: no, the RefWorks export uses RIS.
19:02 jcamins libsysguy: yeah, that's the problem.
19:03 jcamins RIS is broken.
19:03 libsysguy looks like there might be a patch
19:03 libsysguy stupid refworks...ive been trying to figure this out for weeks
19:03 libsysguy they didn't tell me there was a direct export
19:04 jcamins libsysguy: if they'll set you up with a direct Z39.50 connection thingy, that might be preferable, since Koha's RIS support has never been exemplary.
19:04 libsysguy gotcha
19:04 jcamins Incidentally, I really like the subject heading "No -- Periodicals"
19:04 libsysguy well they will
19:05 * jcamins should clarify that statement:
19:05 libsysguy so are there any instructions on how to set that up?
19:05 jcamins If they'll set that up for you without it causing you to go grey and jump off a bridge...
19:05 wizzyrea help, what's RIS stand for
19:06 * wizzyrea imagines you all snickering
19:06 * jcamins hasn't a clue.
19:06 * libsysguy doesn't know either
19:06 wizzyrea HAHA
19:06 wizzyrea <3
19:06 jcamins It stands for... RIS.
19:06 libsysguy Real Important Stuff?
19:06 jcamins It was developed by Research Information Systems.
19:06 wizzyrea ping gmcharlt, what does RIS stand for
19:06 jcamins Apparently it stands for Research Information Systems.
19:07 wizzyrea Hm
19:07 jcamins That can't possibly be trademark-able.
19:08 gmcharlt jcamins: eh, sadly, it could be; dunno if it is
19:08 gmcharlt wizzyrea: I mostly conceptualize it as "the format that reference manager and some other citation managers use"
19:09 wizzyrea oic, thanks, that makes sense
19:09 wizzyrea like endnote
19:09 wizzyrea etc
19:10 wizzyrea and obviously-- refworks, lulz
19:10 * wizzyrea does not putz around much in academics
19:10 libsysguy aww why is there such a divide
19:10 jcamins wizzyrea: actually, want to hear something ironic?
19:10 jcamins RefWorks barely supports RIS.
19:11 * gmcharlt weeps
19:11 gmcharlt (not really)
19:11 * wizzyrea loves irony
19:11 jcamins I find it very ironic, because I chose RIS on account of it being the format that RefWorks was closest to the standard on.
19:19 seneca I have another question
19:19 seneca (I feel like the annoying kid in class ;) )
19:19 cait don't
19:19 cait we like to help
19:20 seneca if zebra is where the search data comes from, why does the search immediately show the bibliographic results for a just-catalogued book, but the linked items don't show until a rebuild?
19:20 seneca :)
19:20 seneca is only the item info pulled from zebra?
19:21 jcamins seneca: good question!
19:21 seneca haha
19:21 jcamins Ooh, I know.
19:21 jcamins I bet you have the zebraqueue daemon running.
19:22 jcamins The zebraqueue daemon is evil.
19:22 seneca oh yeah?
19:22 cait which explains the missing cronjob
19:22 seneca do tell ;)
19:22 jcamins Yes! Bring out the bell and book!
19:22 * jcamins begins distributing incense.
19:22 seneca hahaha
19:22 jcamins ... it's not Friday yet?
19:22 jcamins Oops.
19:22 seneca what's it do and why's it evil?
19:23 jcamins It's broken. It's supposed to do what rebuild_zebra does, but it doesn't work.
19:23 libsysguy well its deprecated for startes
19:23 seneca well, that's not good
19:23 wizzyrea and at some point it had a icky memory leak
19:23 wizzyrea s/a/an
19:23 seneca so, you're saying I should stop that from running ;)
19:23 jcamins Yes.
19:23 seneca alright
19:24 cait and use the cronjob instead
19:24 seneca got it
19:24 seneca is it only the rebuild_zebra cronjob I would need to replace the evil daemon ;P
19:25 jcamins Yup.
19:25 seneca nifty
19:26 seneca I see koha-zebra-daemon and koha-zebraqueue-daemon
19:26 seneca only the latter is evil, yes?
19:26 jcamins Right.
19:27 seneca is there a special way I should stop it from running, or does the normal linux stuff (my OS) apply here?
19:28 jcamins Just the usual way of stopping things.
19:28 seneca ok
19:28 jcamins I usually do sudo /etc/init.d/koha-zebraqueue-daemon stop
19:28 seneca and once it no longer runs, neither the bibliographic info nor the item info will show for just-catalogued stuff until the zebra_rebuild cronjob runs, right?
19:29 jcamins Right.
19:29 seneca awesome
19:29 seneca unrelated: where's everyone from? :)
19:29 * jcamins is based in NYC.
19:29 wizzyrea < KS, US
19:30 seneca cool :) love asking those questions in IRC
19:30 seneca ;)
19:30 cait Konstanz, Germany
19:30 cait where are you from seneca?
19:30 seneca Dayton, OH, US
19:32 * wizzyrea has a seneca, kansas as one of her libraries
19:32 libsysguy Texas US
19:32 seneca ok, I catalogued another book to test the rebuild -z script but the evil daemon was still running at the time
19:32 seneca and when I manually ran rebuild -z script, it imported 0 records
19:32 libsysguy did you restart that server after killing that daemon
19:32 jcamins Bad news. You're probably going to have to reindex.
19:32 libsysguy oh yeah that is bad news :'(
19:32 seneca so I'm reindexing again (rebuild -r)
19:33 seneca then, without the daemon running
19:33 jcamins Yup.
19:33 libsysguy yeah -b -x -r
19:33 jcamins _Then_ you add a new record, and see if it works properly with the cron job.
19:33 seneca I'm going to catalogue a book, check to see that it DOESN'T show up
19:33 seneca run the rebuild -z script manually
19:34 jcamins That makes sense.
19:34 seneca ok
19:34 seneca the reindexing worked
19:34 seneca now to catalogue another book
19:34 jcamins Goodness. That is one angry cat.
19:34 seneca man, that daemon's a demon!
19:34 wizzyrea it's not coincidence.
19:34 seneca :)
19:35 seneca Ever read the book Daemon?
19:35 jcamins Myshkin would like it to be known that he is on the market for new people.
19:35 * jcamins hasn't.
19:35 seneca it's really good
19:35 wizzyrea i've heard it's good
19:35 seneca http://www.amazon.com/Daemon-Daniel-Suarez/dp/B003L1ZXCU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314819325&sr=8-1
19:36 seneca started reading it last spring, couldn't ever find the time to make any real progress
19:36 seneca so I got the audiobook and finished it in about 4 days
19:36 seneca what does Myshkin want people for?
19:37 seneca then I got the sequel and listened to it in about 3 days
19:37 seneca SO good
19:37 seneca and the Daemon is only ~kind of evil ;)
19:37 jcamins seneca: Myshkin wants people who will let him chew on the houseplants.
19:38 trea that is a great book
19:38 trea when i have a problem i usually ask myself, "What would Roy Merritt do?"
19:38 seneca hehe
19:38 seneca YES!
19:39 seneca alright, book catalogued
19:39 seneca no search results in the OPAC
19:39 seneca running the rebuild -z script manually...
19:39 seneca actually got output this time!
19:40 wizzyrea squee!
19:40 seneca and the records show up, both biblio and item info!
19:40 seneca you guys are my heroes
19:40 seneca :)
19:40 cait :)
19:41 wizzyrea @quote add <seneca> you guys are my heroes
19:41 huginn wizzyrea: The operation succeeded. Quote #151 added.
19:41 wizzyrea @quote random
19:41 huginn wizzyrea: Quote #27: "<jdavidb> ("A helicopter does not fly; it is a collection of quasi-unrelated parts moving in close formation, beating the sky into submission.")" (added by gmcharlt at 09:21 PM, August 22, 2009)
19:41 seneca hiccup...
19:42 seneca now to set the cronjob and stop the daemon from restarting on reboot
20:02 trea would someone be kind enough to point me to the koha mailling list archive URL?
20:02 wizzyrea mailing list?
20:02 jcamins mailing list?
20:02 wizzyrea haha
20:02 jcamins mailing lists?
20:02 wahanui mailing lists are at http://koha-community.org/support/koha-mailing-lists/
20:03 wizzyrea you win :)
20:03 cait :)
20:03 cait wahanui botsnack chocolate
20:03 wahanui thanks cait :)
20:03 jcamins mailing list is at http://koha-community.org/support/koha-mailing-lists/
20:03 jcamins mailing list?
20:03 wahanui rumour has it mailing list is at http://koha-community.org/support/koha-mailing-lists/
20:03 wizzyrea there we go :)
20:04 trea that would do it, cheers
20:08 sekjal anyone recall a bug report on the Cataloging Editor not properly collapsing fields since 3.4?
20:08 cait hmm
20:08 cait I think there was something about collapsing
20:09 jcamins There was one.
20:09 jcamins I don't remember which, though.
20:09 wizzyrea bug 5735
20:09 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5735 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, m.de.rooy, RESOLVED FIXED, Expanding/collapsing cloned fields in editor takes original field
20:09 wizzyrea maybe?
20:10 jcamins No, there was another.
20:10 jcamins I just saw it.
20:10 sekjal jcamins channels Yoda
20:10 wizzyrea bug 4867
20:10 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4867 major, PATCH-Sent, ---, cnighswonger, RESOLVED FIXED, cannot clone subfields in marc editor, other clone/unclone weirdness
20:11 jcamins Nope, a different one.
20:11 jcamins :P
20:11 jcamins It was in my search results earlier today. Now what was I looking for?
20:12 jcamins Bug 4374?
20:12 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4374 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, frederic, RESOLVED FIXED, Data entry form doesn't use hidden/mandatory flag as expected
20:12 wizzyrea bug 6621
20:12 wahanui somebody said bug 6621 was probably related.
20:12 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6621 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, prosentientsystems, ASSIGNED , Javascript error in cloning subfields
20:13 sekjal it would be in the late 5000s, early 6000s
20:13 sekjal or anywhere in the 6000s, actually
20:14 jcamins sekjal: are you thinking of bug 6439?
20:14 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6439 normal, P5, ---, gmcharlt, RESOLVED DUPLICATE, In cataloguing all subfields are displayed, even with hidden=0
20:15 jcamins That was marked a duplicate of 4374.
20:15 wizzyrea these later bugs really need some wrangling.
20:16 sekjal ah ha!
20:16 cait lots of bug work needed, always
20:16 cait needing more hands in there too I think
20:17 wizzyrea mhm
20:23 wizzyrea i'm looking at the report for 6588
20:23 wizzyrea bug 6588
20:23 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6588 normal, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , merging records loses item records!
20:23 wizzyrea now to me
20:23 wizzyrea to merge bibs means "make these bibs one"
20:24 wizzyrea isn't she talking about "attach item" which we also have?
20:24 wizzyrea if you don't want all of the items to merge, then you wouldn't use "merge"
20:24 wizzyrea you'd use "attach"
20:24 jcamins Agreed.
20:24 wizzyrea or am I not thinking about this in the right way
20:25 jcamins If you're not thinking about it the right way, neither am I.
20:25 sekjal the merge tool used to list all the 952s, and the librarian could choose what to do with them
20:25 sekjal but since removing items from the marcxml, they no longer show up
20:25 jcamins Ah. I see.
20:26 sekjal I think this report is more surprise at the change than to the functionality
20:26 jcamins That does seem like a nice feature.
20:28 sekjal bug report updated
20:28 wizzyrea oh cool, thanks sekjal
20:29 wizzyrea sekjal++ that is sensible
20:31 rhcl daem, did I miss Jesse Weaver?
20:31 wizzyrea nope, that's jesse m
20:31 wizzyrea jesse W is pianohacker :)
20:32 rhcl icic
20:32 rhcl yea, I know that
20:34 rhcl you know, for a long time I thought his real name was Paul Ianohacker. Don't ask me where I came up with that.
20:34 wizzyrea tee hee
20:35 cait :)
20:37 wizzyrea wow that thing just posted to the koha list looks interesting
20:39 rhcl LinkedIn?
20:39 wizzyrea no, the one after that, the koha/greenstone/GSDL thinger
20:39 rhcl [off] greenstone developers are mean
20:39 wizzyrea lulz.
20:40 jcamins Heh. A lot of people swear by LinkedIn.
20:41 rhcl [off] they kicked me off their listserv because I replied to something and addressed both a specific dev and the list, and my email went to both, of course, and they got hyper excited about me spamming them
20:41 jcamins Me, I'm not entirely convinced it's the solution to unemployment levels in the US.
20:42 wizzyrea linkedin is a necessary evil, I guess.
20:42 wizzyrea linkedin?
20:42 wahanui linkedin is probably a necessary evil, I guess.
20:42 wizzyrea ha
20:45 seneca everything seem to be running as it should
20:46 * wizzyrea gives seneca a high five
20:46 seneca thanks to jcamins, wizzyrea, cait
20:46 seneca libsysguy...
20:46 wahanui rumour has it libsysguy is Koha's hottest developer or partying with swedes on his deck
20:46 wizzyrea wall of em.... LOL.
20:46 seneca and anyone who chimed in to help
20:46 wizzyrea that was to say, wall of email crits me for 9999
20:46 * wizzyrea dies
20:46 jcamins What?
20:46 seneca and with that, I'm out
20:46 seneca ciao!
20:47 wizzyrea I just got a big batch of bug emails. ;)
20:47 jcamins Ah.
20:48 jcamins I guess they'll be hitting the list in a few minutes.
20:50 cait perhaps a good moment to go to bed then :)
20:50 cait good night all
20:52 jcamins Night.
21:06 * jcamins hands trea the duct tape.
21:06 * trea folds an origami swan out of duct tape.
21:10 rhcl I wish I had the skill to do that.
21:11 rhcl OK, so everybody listen to me. I have a great idea. So our library, like every library in the world, has book sales of old, weeded, or donated books.
21:12 rhcl But there is usually no databasing or information on them, just a big big bunch in boxes or on tables. Nobody knows what's there, right?
21:13 rhcl So why doing I write some trivial app that lets the staff scan in the ISBN's, query Amazon for the title and author, grep that out, and put it in some trivial db with a trivial interface to lookup...
21:13 rhcl and then when people come in looking for something they can find out if that book is there?
21:14 rhcl s/doing/don't
21:14 jcamins rhcl: because you'll end up with fewer sales.
21:14 rhcl less browsing?
21:15 jcamins People buy books at library book sales because they're cheap, and, hey, that looks kind of interesting, might as well take it, since they might not find [other book].
21:15 jcamins If people can look up if the sale has [other book], when they see the answer is yes, they're that much less likely to browse, or, when they see the answer is no, they're that much less likely to browse.
21:15 rhcl well
21:15 ibeardslee of course knowing that the book you are after is there, means that you'll turn up
21:16 ibeardslee the trick would be to put all the books in there, but advertise that you'd only got a small number of the book listed
21:16 rhcl ok, gotta think about this
21:16 jcamins ibeardslee: people would already be there, unless this is an online db.
21:17 jcamins Also, you need your volunteers to be able to do all the book sale prep stuff.
21:18 jcamins Entering things into a database might not be so reasonable for some of the volunteers.
21:18 ibeardslee surely if they are old library books, the'll already be in the system?
21:18 rhcl but my idea would be to make it terribly simple, just scan the barcode w/ a scanner...
21:19 ibeardslee they details are already there, just need to know which ones
21:19 rhcl put it in a flat-file db, have a simple lookup interface
21:20 jcamins ibeardslee: most library book sales I've been to were 90% donations.
21:20 jcamins Fifteen copies of the 2009 Danielle Steele, an acidic copy of the Silmarillion, etc.
21:21 ibeardslee ahh ok
21:21 ibeardslee speaking of the Silmarillion .. I do need to track down another copy of that
21:21 jcamins Speaking of the Silmarillion...
21:21 ibeardslee the last one is MIA
21:21 jcamins www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/902-Benjamin_Harff_Interview_Edel_Silmarillion.php
21:22 trea why not make an android/iphone app of this? use one of the barcode scan libs todo the lookups, etc.
21:22 wizzyrea ^^
21:22 trea wouldn't require a pc or a barcode scanner that way
21:23 jcamins trea: and then provide phones for the volunteers?
21:23 wizzyrea *some* volunteers would have phones :)
21:23 jcamins That makes a certain amount of sense.
21:23 trea doesn't everyone have a smartphone? >.>
21:23 trea <.<
21:23 * wizzyrea readies the trout
21:23 trea ^.^
21:24 ibeardslee https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kpR4kjqS88
21:25 ibeardslee although this one has more 'value' .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqS_IOealhM&NR=1
21:25 rhcl a smart app could certainly do the initial lookups, much like a barcode scanner, that's not a big issue, but it wouldn't do databasing so you could tell what you had in stock
21:31 ibeardslee https://market.android.com/details?id=nz.net.catalyst.KiritakiKoha not sure if that could do a scan and dump it into a special koha instance
21:32 jcamins rhcl: but would the volunteers be expected to update the database every time someone bought a book?
21:34 ibeardslee a scanner at checkout could do the job
21:35 wizzyrea you know, like a PoS device
21:35 wizzyrea that's point of sale, get your minds out of the gutter.
21:35 ibeardslee heh
21:35 ibeardslee it wasn't, I didn't, it was Dolly
21:35 wizzyrea the sheep?
21:35 wizzyrea even worse.
21:35 * jcamins thinks everyone else has libraries with nicer buildings than he's used to.
21:36 jcamins And more volunteers.
21:36 jcamins And all else that is good.
21:36 * jcamins feels deprived now.
21:37 wizzyrea i'm sympathetic, our libraries wouldn't use such a thing at their book sales
21:37 ibeardslee wizzyrea: nah there was an Australian comedy show about that had a girl that blamed everything on her dolly .. honest
21:37 wizzyrea hehe
21:37 * wizzyrea takes nothing for granted when it involves australian tv
21:38 ibeardslee they are just wierd
23:19 LBA Hi All, did I see something fly by recently about having hit a momentous number of committers? Could someone refresh my memory?
23:20 eythian LBA: 150th was recently
23:20 LBA Thanks!
23:21 LBA I'm doing a state of the open source ILSs tomorrow. Any suggestions from this group for other highlights in Koha land?
23:28 jcamins 3.6 feature freeze is less than a month away.