Time  Nick         Message
01:38 ronald       is Mason around?
01:39 rangi        havent seen him today ronald
02:17 mtj          ronald:  heya i'm about, now...
02:17 mtj          whats up?
02:18 mtj          doing tax stuff this arvo… :/
02:48 Brooke_      kia ora
02:48 Brooke_      hey rangi, better bribe me mum, bro
02:49 Brooke_      she says no yeah buddy waiata on the 2pt conversion...
03:02 Brooke_      ooof
03:03 Brooke_      game over, mate.
03:44 kmkale       Namaskar #koha
03:45 mtj          heya Koustubha
03:52 kmkale       hi mtj
05:31 snail        morning all
06:57 francharb    hello alll
06:58 rangi        hi francharb
07:33 * mtj        has his tax stuff all done :)
08:04 kf           good morning #koha
08:10 kf           morning paul_p
08:10 paul_p       morning kf
08:11 paul_p       breaking news kf :we organise a "European debugguing sprint week" in April, here in Marseille, for 3.4, from april 4th to 8th. Public announcement coming soon, you can already note this week on you agenda ;-)
08:12 hudsonbot    Starting build 344 for job Koha_Master (previous build: SUCCESS)
08:12 rangi        cool
08:12 rangi        speaking of debugging
08:13 rangi        http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/showdependencytree.cgi?id=5574&hide_resolved=1
08:13 rangi        quite a few of these have been merged into master now, if you could test and mark resolved that would be great
08:13 paul_p       hi rangi
08:14 paul_p       mmm... rangi, how do you get this showdependancytree (can't find the link on show_bug.cgi?id=5574)
08:15 paul_p       ok, link found
08:15 huginn       New commit(s) kohagit: Merge branch 'new/bug_5277' into kcmaster <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=a8222aeeb1169d7b1939d1e64c319a16e3846e8c>
08:15 kf           paul_p: cool :)
08:15 rangi        im doing that with all your branches
08:16 rangi        building up a dependency tree and bugs for each feature/bug
08:16 paul_p       splitting our split in smaller splits, I understand ;-)
08:16 rangi        well splitting and combining
08:16 rangi        eg
08:17 rangi        http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commit;h=a4cc394508182f292b4767504dfbac882744c3df
08:35 huginn       New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 5699: don't discard $3 when building a record (UNIMARC specific) <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=60e0a76fc027ff8d97c3630fce0a7b8222b6d5fd>
08:36 hudsonbot    Project Koha_Master build #344: SUCCESS in 24 min: http://hudson.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master/344/
08:36 hudsonbot    Mason James: (bug 5277) (HEAD) cant search by barcode in OPAC search-page
08:37 hudsonbot    Starting build 345 for job Koha_Master (previous build: SUCCESS)
08:46 kf           !hudsonbot botsnack cookie
08:46 hudsonbot    kf did you mean me? Unknown command 'bot'
08:46 hudsonbot    Use !hudsonhelp to get help!
08:46 kf           !hudson botsnack cookie
08:46 hudsonbot    kf: great! yum yum. I just love cookie!
08:47 magnuse      kia ora, #koha
08:53 snail        mōrena, magnuse
08:54 * magnuse    googles
08:54 magnuse      "good morning"?
08:59 kf           god morgen magnus :)
08:59 snail        magnuse: indeed, transliteration of 'morning'
09:00 magnuse      cool!
09:00 magnuse      guten morgen, kf
09:01 hudsonbot    Project Koha_Master build #345: SUCCESS in 24 min: http://hudson.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master/345/
09:01 hudsonbot    Paul Poulain: Bug 5699: don't discard $3 when building a record (UNIMARC specific)
09:17 huginn       New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 5700: MT4004 : additem.pl Some Status were not defaulted to the correct value... <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=14422c8ed9df29a6b89e8afe69c4d05056618124>
09:27 hudsonbot    Starting build 346 for job Koha_Master (previous build: SUCCESS)
09:34 druthb       happy Monday, #koha.  :)
09:35 kf           happy monday??
09:36 kf           hi druthb :)
09:36 druthb       hehehe...
09:36 mtj          heyazz, very happy monday for me
09:36 kf           because it's almost over? ;)
09:37 mtj          nah, i've sorted/paid all my tax stuff for the last 2 years
09:38 mtj          $stress_level—
09:38 druthb       yay!
09:38 mtj          … and about to splurge on some linode VMs
09:39 druthb       I got a bunch of organizing done over the weekend, too, and tossed out piles of scribbly paper notes, so my $stress_level--, too.
09:39 kf           hmpf.
09:39 * mtj        hive-fives druthb
09:40 druthb       It's not *that* big a thing, but it sure feels good, don't it?
09:41 mtj          tax-returns  or scribbly-paper tossing?
09:41 mtj          kidding ;)
09:41 kmkale       yo druthb yahhy monday is that thingi like oxymoron or some such
09:42 kmkale       s/yahhy/happy/
09:43 druthb       for some people, certainly, kmkale.  For me, not so much; They're sometimes stressful and busy, but I try really hard to be the happiest person I know.  (And that's an internal decision, not a reaction to externalities.)
09:43 mtj          oooh, VM hosting performance (with graphs)
09:43 rangi        linode rules
09:43 kmkale       :)
09:43 mtj          http://journal.uggedal.com/vps-performance-comparison
09:43 rangi        rocksolid
09:43 druthb       I'm a big fan of linode; I've used 'em for a number of small projects here and there.
09:44 mtj          yeah, im going that way chris
09:44 mtj          … and the best bang-for-buck
09:45 mtj          rangi: 32 or 64 bit kernel, on linode?
09:45 mtj          any prefs?
09:45 rangi        i run 64
09:46 druthb       I've done some dev works, approvals and such, on nearlyfreespeech.net....for web stuff, it's decent.  You can't run herkin big services there, but for little db-based apps, wordpress, CMS stuff, it's nice, because you pay as you go for what you use.  Not a full vm, but not a cpanel host, either, kinda in between.
09:47 mtj          ok, i read somewhere 32-bit might be more lean, for a small memory config?
09:48 mtj          i wanna try running a small demo koha, on a linode
09:48 * magnuse    has been quite happy with slicehost so far, but should take another look at those stats...
09:49 mtj          linode is better/cheaper than slicehost
09:49 magnuse      yeah, looks like it
09:49 mtj          and more RAM
09:50 rangi        im running hudson, bugzilla, the pastebot and infobot, as well as downloads.koha-community
09:50 rangi        on my small linode
09:50 druthb       We've been using Rackspace, and there have been some uptime issues.  I am not fond of their fixed-size systems...if you need a huge disk, you have to buy huge cpu and memory to go with.  my loader server doesn't need a huge CPU, just lots and lots of workbench area.
09:51 hudsonbot    Project Koha_Master build #346: SUCCESS in 23 min: http://hudson.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master/346/
09:51 hudsonbot    Paul Poulain: Bug 5700: MT4004 : additem.pl Some Status were not defaulted to the correct value Status 0 was lost because test was done on value and not on the fact that a value was defined or not. when value is 0 then it was not used as default value for
09:52 mtj          i worked on a client's rackspace box, and it was sooo slow, i got ssh timeouts constantly
09:52 * magnuse    never had trouble with that on slicehost
09:52 druthb       I've not had that problem with ours, but we've had some panicky times when their servers act up and have to be rebooted.
09:52 mtj          its out-of-the-box config was borked too
09:53 mtj          its = rackspace
09:53 kmkale       i am using rackspace. and frankly i am happy with it.
09:56 mtj          this rackspace was running landscape, which was causing a 3 minute hang after ssh login :/
09:56 mtj          http://www.canonical.com/enterprise-services/ubuntu-advantage/landscape
09:57 mtj          anyhoo, thats the only experience ive had with RS...
09:57 * magnuse    looks for a way to see the results of the kohacon vote, but can't find it
09:58 rangi        has it closed?
09:58 mtj          surely not
09:58 rangi        nope 17th
10:02 magnuse      i just wanted to see the current standing - but guess that won't be available before it has closed
10:06 * kmkale     would like a peek at current standings too ;)
10:09 * mtj        mods the koha wiki page...
10:09 mtj          http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Koha_%28software%29&action=historysubmit&diff=412502815&oldid=412006237
10:14 kmkale       both branches have a very large active team???
10:15 mtj          lol, yeah that stuff should go
10:16 mtj          someones probably sneaked the harley details in as relevant, i think…
10:17 mtj          i want to make an april fools joke release of Koha , called 'Furby'
10:18 kmkale       brb
10:18 mtj          KohaAloha, NZ releases what it considers to be a stable release of Koha, called 'Furby'…
10:20 * druthb     is not gonna release a fork named after her pet.  "Captain Midnight" is a screwy name for a release.  :)
10:22 * magnuse    would have to relase 3 forks, Rosa, Benoni and Lina... nah, sounds like too much work ;-)
10:23 druthb       keeping up with more than one fork at a time is *hard work*.
10:23 mtj          … we've cherry-picked 50 exciting Koha features on a 3.0.1 codebase, and tested them on *actual* furbies!
10:23 mtj          amen druthb
10:23 mtj          thats why we all have to help each other
10:25 magnuse      amen mtj
10:25 kf           poor furbies
10:45 kf           @later tell jwagner tested bug 5688 - good catch, I never noticed the column!
10:45 huginn       kf: The operation succeeded.
10:53 kmkale       in opac where is the link to take a user to opac-user.pl?
10:57 kf           you mean account?
10:57 kf           ah sorry, have to go, lunch
10:59 kmkale       yes the my summary page
11:42 kf           @later tell kmkale opac-user.pl: when you are logged in on top of the page: 'Welcome....'
11:42 huginn       kf: The operation succeeded.
12:48 jcamins_away Good morning, #koha
12:48 Nate_        morning jcamins!
12:52 jwagner      Morning all
12:57 jcamins      Woohoo! My paper on the role of women in establishing the Russian canon was accepted!
12:57 Nate_        congrats!!
12:58 Nate_        morning! jwagner
12:58 jwagner      morning, Nate_ and congrats jcamins
13:04 kf           jcamins: congrats :)
13:04 ebegin       hello #koha!
13:04 kf           hi ebegin
13:04 * chris_n    welcomes ebegin
13:05 ebegin       :)
13:05 ebegin       I do have an mismatch for a tag somewhere in one of my .tmpl file.  Is there an easy way to validate a .tmpl file ?
13:07 mtj          ebegin: nope, use diff
13:07 mtj          or git-diff, the only method i use
13:09 ebegin       Hmmm, it won't be easy, I reindented most of the file.
13:10 jcamins      ebegin: there's some way to have diff ignore whitespace.
13:10 ebegin       got it :) it was not that long after all :)
13:10 mtj          reindent *after* the mod works
13:11 ebegin       I added an extra space before the > by mistake in a <!-- /TMPL_LOOP -->
13:11 * mtj        speaks with much personal experience on the issue
13:12 ebegin       is it just me or the indentation of the .tmpl files could be improved? :)
13:12 oleonard     It could certainly be better standardized
13:13 oleonard     Not everyone agrees on indentation style, so "improved" is a problematic term
13:13 ebegin       oleonard, i wanted to be polite. :) you could replace could be improved by sucks :)
13:14 oleonard     Either term has little meaning if you don't offer a suggested standard to apply
13:22 kf           perhaps we can decide on that after the switch to template toolkit?
13:24 oleonard     I'm not sure we'd manage to keep everyone on the same standard without some kind of Tidy script
13:25 pastebot0    "ebegin" at 24.202.39.26 pasted "Indentation proposal for .tmpl file" (30 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/140
13:26 ebegin       that would be a first proposal
13:26 ebegin       http://paste.koha-community.org/140
13:27 ebegin       basically, group what reprensents grouping, both in HTML::Template (<!-- TMPL_IF -->, <!-- TMPL_LOOP -->, ...) and HTML tags (<div>, <table>, <ul>, ...)
13:27 mtj          i think 2-char spacing might be better than 4
13:29 ebegin       mtj, i used 4 chars in the example, but I prefer using tab instead.  If you want your tab to be 1, 2, 4 or 10 characters is up to you and is usually a setting in your editor
13:30 ebegin       I used 4 chars in the example because I was not able to use tab in the form
13:30 mtj          no tabs, set your tab key to input spaces ;)
13:31 * mtj        dons tinfoil pants…
13:31 ebegin       that is always an eternal debate,.
13:32 ebegin       but if you use spaces, that brings another questions.  how many... 2, 4, 6, 8 ?
13:32 mtj          some template files in koha get pushed waaay right, with 4-char indenting
13:33 ebegin       That's why with a tab, you can set it to whatever you want ;)
13:33 mtj          as many as it says in the kc.org style guide, silly
13:33 oleonard     Doesn't say: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Coding_Guidelines
13:34 kf           I think 4 space indentation?
13:34 kf           * Indentation: 4 spaces [+++] or tabs [] or 2 spaces [] or don't care but give us perltidy settings [+]
13:34 mtj          lol, so add it...
13:35 * jcamins    doesn't care, for what it's worth.
13:35 mtj          nah, its a serious thing to agree on
13:35 ebegin       jcamins, I think that it worth it actually.
13:35 mtj          and every once/while someone brings it up
13:36 mtj          4-char is prolly what folks will decide upon
13:36 kf           ebegin: I think we will need a suggestion for template toolkit - perhaps a tidy up could be done with the conversion scripts?
13:36 oleonard     kf++
13:37 ebegin       jcamins, sorry, I agree that the spaces vs tab doesn't worth it... but a standard on indentation (when changing line, for exemple) worth it.
13:38 mtj          i *still* haven't found an html tidy/beautifiler that handles <!— TMPL —> blocks
13:38 jcamins      Yes, that's what I mean.
13:38 ebegin       I can believe that we have to look at .tmpl file for 15 or 30 minutes to know where that <!-- /TMPL_IF --> has to go
13:38 jcamins      mtj: probably because they're an offense against nature.
13:39 kf           ebegin: I hope the new syntax will make it a little easier
13:40 mtj          there was a WIP for html-tidy to handle html::template, a few years ago, i haven't looks at it since
13:40 ebegin       kf, I hope too
13:41 oleonard     mtj: It's a little late to be working on that again
13:41 mtj          ha, sure.. just saying..
13:44 oleonard     ebegin: One problem with <!-- /TMPL_IF -->placement is that even an editor with good code folding is going to have trouble handling both HTML and TMPL at the same time
13:45 ebegin       oleonard, this is why we are there, us, poor human ;)
13:45 ebegin       s/human/humans
13:46 ebegin       why count onan automated task when we can do it correctly while writing it...
13:48 oleonard     At the moment, because people have many patches pending which haven't been written according to any standard
13:50 ebegin       oleonard, I agree.  That whu there will be a transition.
13:51 ebegin       If we say that from now on, every time we modify a file we have to align them, chances are that most files will be standardized.
13:52 ebegin       or we can postpone that forever.
13:52 oleonard     I think kf's idea of building this into the T:T transition is a good one, although I have no idea if it is feasible
13:52 ebegin       We will always have pending patches
13:53 oleonard     But after the T:T transition *everyone* will be required to submit patches in a new format. Good time to begin a new standard.
13:53 ebegin       oleonard++
13:55 kf           we should ask chris about ti
13:55 kf           or rangi
13:55 oleonard     Of course
13:56 kf           but I would like it
13:56 kf           would make reading the templates easier I think
13:58 oleonard     I think the proof will be seeing how it handles a complex page like moremember.tmpl or circulation.tmpl
13:59 oleonard     Hi nfred
13:59 kf           mormember template needs a clean up
14:00 kf           some things there are bad for translation too
14:00 kf           like cutting sentences into smaller parts with if clauses - hard to translate such things
14:01 kf           tried to change them, but always broke something until I gave up
14:01 kf           too many ifs
14:01 nfred        Hi oleonard, glad to be here.  Been away for months!
14:02 oleonard     kf: Feel free to file a bug if you'd like me to take a look. I don't always recognize that kind of problem
14:02 kf           thx for the offer owen :)
14:02 oleonard     nfred: Do we know you by another nick from the old channel?
14:03 nfred        Yes, I'm being inconsistent!  I was nelsonf I think - Nelson Fredsell Atlanta, with installation in Cape Town, South Africa
14:04 oleonard     nfred: Welcome back. We're still getting used to some new nicks around here :)
14:05 nfred        I thought nfred would be easier for folks to type.  I've been working a plan for some time and move at snails pace...
14:06 * oleonard   's irc client has tab completion so it doesn't matter how long the nick is as long as it doesn't start the same as someone else's
14:06 nfred        My challenge for some time has been simply to install Koha on my laptop, and darned if I haven't been able to do  it yet.
14:06 kf           which os are you using?
14:07 nfred        I want to set up a similar environment too the Cape Town install.
14:07 nfred        OpenSUSE 11.3 in virtualbox
14:08 kf           never worked with opensuse
14:08 nfred        I've been following instructions on the koha site.
14:08 kf           I think debian is what most people use and there are good manuals and even packages for that
14:08 jcamins      Yeah, I saw that Debian 6 was released. :)
14:08 kf           question: can place holds for debarred user - bug or feature?
14:09 nfred        Yes, but the Cape Town install is OpenSuse. w/ Koha 3.00.01.005
14:10 mtj          bug :)
14:10 jcamins      nfred: I wasn't suggesting you use Debian, just expressing my excitement about there finally being a version of Debian with MySQL 5.1.
14:10 kf           mtj: I feared you would say that
14:13 oleonard     kf: Feature :)
14:14 oleonard     It could be called a bug if there were code in Koha to prevent it from happening but that code didn't work ;)
14:14 jwagner      kf and mtj, as a matter of interest, what would you expect should happen if a patron has existing holds and then gets debarred?  Do those holds remain valid?
14:14 jwagner      The answer might have an effect on what happens at the point of debarrment.
14:15 oleonard     You'd have to add a "suspend hold" feature (sounds familiar)
14:16 jwagner      That could work -- the tricky part would be unsuspending.  When someone is debarred, it could automatically suspend holds, but no good way to automatically unsuspend them I can think of.
14:16 jwagner      No way to distinguish between holds the patron might have suspended himself versus ones the system did
14:17 kf           oleonard: I think I would expect it so show a message with an override option
14:17 kf           jwagner: I would think yes - remain valid. it will make it easier to make him show up and pay his fines
14:17 nfred        kf: I'm working with http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_3.0.0_on_openSUSE_11.3, but can't make the virtualbox server visible to my Windows laptop.  Freek (and previously Ricardo Dias Marques) suggested static IP.  Using yast  with minimum os install, i.e. no gui.
14:18 kf           nfred: sounds more like a virtualbox issue than koha
14:18 nfred        Yes, I haven't even gotten to the koha part yet!
14:19 nfred        However, I'm trying to follow steps listed on the koha site
14:19 jcamins      nfred: change VirtualBox to use bridged networking.
14:19 wahanui1     jcamins: that doesn't look right
14:20 jcamins      Oh no! I killed wahanui1!
14:20 nfred        oops
14:20 jwagner      jcamins, it was a MERCY killing!
14:21 jcamins      nfred: anyway, use bridged networking.
14:21 nfred        I changed to bridged from NAT last night.  I then went to my windows browser and still couldn't see http://192.168.1.16 or http://localhost
14:23 jcamins      nfred: no, of course not. I was just waiting for you to get your VM booted after you changed it for the next step.
14:23 mtj          nfred:  you shouldnt be able to see localhost from your windows box ;)
14:24 nfred        I'm booting now..
14:24 nfred        okay, logged in as root
14:25 jcamins      Run ifconfig
14:25 jcamins      It should say something like en0: UP 192.168.1.16 netmask 255.255.255.0
14:26 jcamins      You want to know A) the IP and B) that first bit.
14:26 nfred        yes, and Bcast 192.168.1.255
14:26 jcamins      (whether it's en0 or eth0 or what)
14:26 nfred        eth0
14:26 nengard      morning all - got a question about recent commits - does anyone know what commit/bug report added the item type icons to the search results in the staff and opac?
14:26 jcamins      Okay, now, open up a terminal on your Windows box.
14:27 jcamins      Then run ping 192.168.1.16
14:28 nfred        there's also similar info with lo. re ping on windows, request timed out
14:28 jcamins      nfred: lo is loopback, so it won't be accessible from Windows.
14:29 nfred        jcamins: okay, thanks
14:29 kf           jcamins: do you know where I can find a list of relator code or terms?
14:29 kf           $4 apparently in 700 and others
14:30 kf           bug 5701
14:30 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5701 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, m.de.rooy, ASSIGNED, Distinction between authors/additional authors in staff normal view (MARC21/XSLT)
14:30 jcamins      kf: yes. http://www.loc.gov/marc/relators/
14:30 kf           thx, was looking there but missed this link
14:31 jcamins      kf: recent practice has changed to using terms ($e) instead of codes.
14:32 kf           I think we still use the codes
14:32 kf           there should be a way to translate them
14:33 jcamins      kf: yes, indeed there should. :)
14:34 kf           and not sure everybody wants to show them - will complicate the opac view
14:35 jcamins      There should be a syspref for that. :)
14:35 nengard      as an 'additional author' i would like it to say what i did  :)
14:35 nengard      right now illustrators will show under additional authors instead of as 'illustrators'
14:35 nengard      that too is confusing
14:35 nfred        jcamins: should I run another command on the linux side to trouble shoot, or run yast?
14:36 jcamins      nfred: sorry, I've been trying to figure out what the next step is.
14:36 oleonard     bywater++ # MassCat!
14:36 nengard      @later tell rangi got a question about recent commits - what commit/bug report added the item type icons to the search results in the staff and opac?  I have a comment but I can't find where to put it
14:36 huginn       nengard: The operation succeeded.
14:37 nengard      thanks oleonard :)
14:45 jcamins      Is it possible to override noissuescharge?
14:48 jwagner      jcamins, see Bug 3496
14:48 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3496 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, jwagner, ASSIGNED, Override maximum fine at checkout
14:50 oleonard     jwagner: Sounds like something that should be cherry-picked into master and resubmitted
14:51 oleonard     Hi wizzyrea
14:51 wizzyrea     good morning :)
14:53 kf           nengard: I agree about the separate line - only not happy about the codes/terms
14:54 kf           nengard: and it should work for 880 - but the display for 880 is not optimal at the moment
14:54 nengard      kf i'm saying that some of those terms need to be there (editor, illustrator, translator) the biggies cause otherwise those people are listed as 'additional authors' and they're not really
14:54 kf           ah, so more than one separate line
14:55 kf           have different labels and show them, I would like it htat way for opat at least
14:55 kf           because ourlibrarians don't know the english codes / terms
14:55 kf           and some of them are quite cryptic
14:56 kf           ah, mid-air collision
14:57 kf           I added a comment to the bug (thought it was already there, missed the bugzilla error message)
15:13 oleonard     Hi sekjal
15:13 oleonard     You at code4lib?
15:14 sekjal       hi, owen.  yes, at the pre-conference session on cloud computing
15:15 * oleonard   should try to make code4lib someday
15:18 sekjal       oleonard:  it's pretty neat
15:18 * oleonard   hadn't even realized it was coming up
15:21 kf           sekjal: druthb with you?
15:22 sekjal       kf: she's in transit today
15:22 sekjal       will be here around 6pm, I think
15:22 kf           ah
15:24 kf           sekjal: hope both of you have a good time :)
15:25 sekjal       I think we will.  hopefully will have some time for a bit of hackfestery
15:26 oleonard     Any other koha enthusiasts you know of coming?
15:26 sekjal       I've got some patches I want to work up, but they aren't requests from our clients, so it's hard to find the time during the normal work day
15:26 sekjal       atz is here
15:29 kf           sekjal: speaking of patches - have you seen my comment on the autobarcode issue?
15:29 kf           I have to say using our ISILs as branchcode is a bit mean to the system
15:30 sekjal       kf: I saw it, but haven't tried to do anything with it yet
15:30 kf           ok, just let me me know if I can test or provide more information :)
15:35 kf           oleonard++
15:56 sekjal       http://bit.ly/i3bBLw
15:56 sekjal       (my article has been published)
15:56 wizzyrea     woot!
15:56 jcamins      Congratulations!
15:56 kf           sekjal++ :)
15:56 ebegin       congrats sekjal
15:58 sekjal       thanks, everyone
15:59 sekjal       full disclosure: I had a co-author, but at the last minute, she asked to have her name taken off for political reasons.
16:01 magnuse      sekjal++
16:02 rhcl_away    sekjal++
16:02 magnuse      sekjal: are you allowed to post a preprint/open access version somewhere?
16:03 magnuse      e.g. http://eprints.rclis.org/
16:03 sekjal       magnuse:  just reading the legalize now.  Yes, I'm allowed to republish with impunity
16:03 * druthb     pops in for a bit, before lunch and flying..
16:04 sekjal       hey, druthb!
16:04 magnuse      sekjal: cool!
16:04 druthb       Congratulations, sekjal, on your publication!
16:04 sekjal       how was the first leg o' the flight?
16:04 * magnuse    waves at druthb
16:04 druthb       Mine is only one leg.  I'm at DCA (National) now.
16:05 magnuse      btw: e-lis has 9 hits for koha: http://eprints.rclis.org/simple-search?query=koha&submit=Go
16:05 wizzyrea     indianapolis?
16:05 druthb       yep.  going to Indy, then taking a shuttle to bloomington for code4lib.  :D
16:06 druthb       (and also, seeing sekjal....actually, that should be the other way around; I'm going to bloomington to see sekjal, and also go to code4lib.)  :)
16:06 magnuse      lucky people - code4lib sounds cool!
16:07 sekjal       druthb:  ah, thought you'd have a connection... but since I connected in DCA, that train of thought doesn't really hold
16:07 rhcl         eprints seems to be using DSpace, and excellent app
16:08 magnuse      rhcl: free software FTW! ;-)
16:08 jcamins      What time is it in Detroit?
16:08 druthb       sekjal:  I should be done with the newbee dinner 8-ish...call me when you're un-busy after that?  (and if you don't have other dinner plans, I'm sure there's room for one more friend.)
16:09 rhcl         I actually evaluated DSpace here, and plan to go back to that archival project "some day".
16:09 * druthb     waves to jcamins.
16:09 jcamins      (don't answer that... one of my other channels has a bot which would tell me, and I wondered if munin did too)
16:09 sekjal       druthb:  I don't have any particular plans after lunch today.  I'll give you a buzz
16:10 druthb       great!  I fly from DCA about 1400 (yes, in 2.5 hours), and will be on the ground by about 1630 in Indy.
16:11 druthb       sekjal:  I'm supposed to arrive on the shuttle at 1820, at the hotel, and I'll check in and boogie to the dinner.  :D
16:12 sekjal       druthb:  cool, noted
16:16 magnuse      rhcl: kete is worth a look too, depending on your use case...
16:19 rhcl         I see Kete and DSpace having differences--I've looked at both, though not recently.
16:19 rhcl         Kete looks great for recording the memories of living people, audio or visual I think
16:20 snail        anyone know who the wikipedia editor 'Alohabot' is?
16:20 rhcl         For more static things like still images and documents my _general_impression_ is that DSpace is better suited
16:21 rhcl         I also note that many people, possibly including Joann, might disagree
16:21 kf           snail: I would guess mtj
16:21 * oleonard   too
16:23 * magnuse    too
16:24 * druthb     waves to Nate_ from DCA's big concourse.
16:24 magnuse      rhcl: i see kete more as a "wiki with documents", dspace more as an archival tool, strong on metadata, weak on user participation
16:24 Nate_        Hiya!
16:24 rhcl         yes, concur
16:24 rhcl         Hey Nate
16:25 magnuse      does anyone know the status of "search domains" - do they actually do anything?
16:25 kf           hm
16:25 snail        mtj: please don't mess with my carefully chosen words around the fork in the wikipedia article. i understand your point of view, but wikipedia has the whole encyclopedic voice thing going on which means it has to be balanced and impartial
16:25 magnuse      hi Nate_
16:27 jcamins      Did nengard prepare a training video on customizing notices?
16:28 oleonard     snail: Why not take it up in the discussion on that article?
16:29 kf           jcamins: I know more about notices than I ever wanted to know - do you have a specific question?
16:29 jcamins      No, I just thought it would be nice to send a video on how to customize notices to a customer. :)
16:30 snail        oleonard: because far too many of the contributors have COI issues. did you read what I wrote recently at https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/User_talk:Jkostoff ?
16:30 snail        oleonard: technically, pretty much anyone in this channel editing the article is a COI
16:32 oleonard     Good thing we all exercise such great caution ;)
16:34 hdl          hi all
16:36 jcamins      [off] oleonard: speak for yourself. I was planning on changing the page to say "100% of dentists agree- Koha is the best ILS. When asked, Dr. Aibolit said 'oh, yeah, without novocaine we'd be even less popular than we are now.'"
16:37 druthb       [off] lol
16:41 kf           hi hdl
16:48 magnuse      hiya hdl
16:50 hdl          hi all
16:53 snail        I've reverted some of mtj's changes to the wikipedia page. if they show up here and ask about it, encourage them not to simply revert my revision. that way lies the path of madness. I'll be back here as I can, but I can't connect from work
17:00 oleonard     I guess my suggestion for using the Wikipedia discussion area didn't go over well
17:01 schuster2    I'm confused by bug 5297
17:01 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5297 minor, P5, ---, nengard, NEW, emailLibrarianWhenHoldIsPlaced does nothing
17:01 schuster2    So is this feature working or not now?
17:02 schuster2    Then bug 5489 came about
17:02 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5489 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, amit.gupta, ASSIGNED, Send hold email to branch email address if it exists instead of koha email address
17:02 oleonard     schuster2: I would say so based on gmcharlt's comment
17:03 schuster2    Does anyone know if the "demo" server from bywater up and running from koha-community has emails running?
17:04 jcamins      schuster2: I don't think it does, but I'll check.
17:05 oleonard     schuster2: I wouldn't think it would since it's a public demo
17:05 jcamins      It may be a few minutes since I'm eating lunch now.
17:06 schuster2    ok - I was just playing around and now realize part of what I was trying to test isn't on that server yet - 5489 isn't applied so it really doesn't matter.
17:06 schuster2    Thanks everyone.
17:07 schuster2    But I will ask this question of those here!  When you are editing in a git branch - how does the web know which branch to use and display changes?
17:09 oleonard     schuster2: When you check out a branch all the files are updated to that branch's version. Your installation immediately uses those changed files
17:10 schuster2    So if you delete a branch because you abandon the changes you were working on the installation reverts back to the main code?
17:10 oleonard     Since you can't delete a branch which is checked out you would have already had to switch to another branch
17:11 schuster2    OK so when you switch the web knows to use whatever the "active" branch is...
17:12 oleonard     the web site always looks in the same place for the files to use to do its thing
17:12 oleonard     Those files change the moment you switch branches
17:13 schuster2    OK thanks - I'll need to do some playing on my own to get my brain around it...
17:15 * oleonard   comes up with several metaphors which are just more confusing
17:15 sekjal       alright, time for some lunch
17:15 schuster2    Another question - as I'm working on this kids icon driven searching project.  If I wanted to house them on the Koha server I probably need to create a directory on my server.  Where would the best place be?
17:15 sekjal       back after
17:16 jcamins      schuster2: what do you mean?
17:16 schuster2    Gotta go to a meeting sorry be back in a bit
17:28 oleonard     What do you all think: Okay to mark a bug "patch sent" if the patch is attached to the report, even if it hasn't been sent to the list?
17:28 oleonard     Now that we need everything to have a signoff, the signed-off version will make it to the list
17:29 oleonard     briceSanc is attaching reformatted versions of his patches to the bugs and I'd like to mark them "needs signoff" so they'll get looked at.
17:30 jcamins      oleonard: makes sense to me.
17:42 rangi        As long as the signed off version goes to the list, and ppl set the bug statuses correctly should be fine
17:44 rangi        @later tell nengard don't know, way too many commits to memorise them, try searching the git log
17:44 huginn       rangi: The operation succeeded.
17:44 oleonard     rangi: nengard and I figured it out
17:44 rangi        Cool
17:45 oleonard     that discussion led to my patch today for Bug 5462
17:45 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5462 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, Fix variable names so we dont break template::toolkit
17:46 rangi        Yay
17:46 rangi        I think chris h has a few more for that too
17:46 rangi        And yes html tidy and tt play nice
17:47 rangi        But I will throw a stapler at anyone who tries to tidy the templates as we convert them
17:47 rangi        Because that makes spotting differences
17:48 rangi        And applying outstanding patches almost impossible
17:48 jcamins      rangi: what kind of stapler?
17:48 rangi        The heaviest I can find
17:49 rangi        We need to get them converted and be happy we haven't broken stuff
17:49 * jcamins    makes a note to send in a patch tidying a small portion of the templates so that rangi will send him a nice heavy stapler.
17:49 rangi        Then we can shift everything around
17:49 rangi        Ill bring it to ala and throw it :)
17:50 rangi        So 3.6 we could start with a big tidy
17:50 * jcamins    will take a nice heavy stapler any time, even if he has to wait until June.
17:50 rangi        If we do it now, all patches not applied now would have to be rewritten
17:51 jcamins      rangi: I agree. I just want that stapler...
17:51 rangi        Heh
17:55 oleonard     Nice Google home page, NZ: http://www.google.co.nz/
17:56 brendan_     morning #koha
18:19 schuster2    So rangi you are coming to ALA in June?
18:26 rangi        Yes indeed
18:26 rangi        Barring unforeseen circumstances
18:27 rangi        Ala in june, access in october
18:27 rangi        Are my 2 north american trips this year
18:32 schuster2    Wow world traveler!  Are you presenting or???  and when???  I will be there working on some School business/Texas Library Association stuff.  I would love to buy you a beverage one night.
18:54 rangi        Presenting at access, not ALA at least I don't think I am
18:57 rangi        And beverages of course gratefully accepted
18:57 gmcharlt     rangi: I have ways of getting you to present at ALA ;)
18:57 rangi        Orly?
18:58 gmcharlt     for the LITA OSS interest group, if nothing else
19:00 rangi        Cool, I reckon I could swing that :)
19:02 rangi        its on same time as the conf proper?
19:04 rangi        Ok my stop bbiab
19:12 rangi        back
19:13 * oleonard   can't git fetch.. times out...
19:16 jcamins      Item type icons and OPACXSLTResultsDisplay.
19:16 jcamins      Do they work together?
19:16 oleonard     item type icons do not display on the results page unless item-level_itypes is set to OFF
19:17 jcamins      Ohh.
19:17 jcamins      I see.
19:18 oleonard     jcamins: You have a client asking about it?
19:19 jcamins      Yep.
19:19 oleonard     (just had a conversation about this with nengard)
19:19 jcamins      I was trying to figure out why I never had any problems before.
19:19 jcamins      The ANS used biblio-level itypes.
19:21 cait         hi all
19:21 jcamins      Does item-level_itypes affect anything else?
19:22 oleonard     Not sure, beyond display of item type images
19:22 jcamins      Ah, grep, how I do treasure thee.
19:23 jcamins      Oh, it must affect limits.
19:23 cait         it should
19:24 cait         but there are some smaller bugs
19:24 oleonard     jcamins: I think what we should probably work for is a display of item-level material types on the search results page
19:24 cait         we had a library reporting that if the biblio level itemtype is not for loan they don't see holds links in the staff result list
19:25 cait         oleonard: I think there is no right way to do it if you have more than one item type
19:26 oleonard     But if we displayed material-type icons like on the XSLT display...
19:27 oleonard     I'm not sure how you'd do it, but I know that what my patrons really want to be able to see at a glance is whether it's a book, DVD, audio book, etc.
19:27 jcamins      Yeah, that's the problem I'm trying to deal with.
19:28 cait         and the material type icons are not obvious enough?
19:28 jcamins      cait: not on the search results page.
19:30 cait         are we talking about xslt or normal view?
19:30 jcamins      XSLT.
19:30 jcamins      Or normal, for that matter.
19:31 oleonard     Evergreen does what I'm thinking of, if I'm not mistaken.
19:32 oleonard     gmcharlt: Do you where I can find an up-to-date Evergreen OPAC?
19:32 rangi        hi anitsirk
19:32 anitsirk     morning rangi.
19:32 anitsirk     now i need to be careful again to always type in the correct chatroom ;-)
19:32 rangi        :)
19:33 gmcharlt     oleonard: see http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=community_servers#community_demo_servers
19:33 gmcharlt     there's a 2.0.0 (i.e, about as recent as you can get) OPAC demo included there
19:34 oleonard     I was surprised that the gapines one was so out of date (in distance from 2.0)
19:35 oleonard     gmcharlt: Does the Evergreen search results page indicate item- or biblio-level item/material type?
19:36 gmcharlt     oleonard: PINES is only running 1.4.0.7, as it happens
19:36 magnuse      hiya anitsirk!
19:36 gmcharlt     oleonard: Evergreen has no concept of a bib-level item type as such; what it does is choose the icon to display based on leader and other fixed field values
19:36 anitsirk     hi magnuse :-)
19:36 cait         hi anitsirk
19:36 oleonard     http://evergreen.seo.lib.oh.us/opac/en-US/skin/craftsman/xml/rresult.xml?rt=keyword&tp=keyword&t=harry%20potter&l=1&d=0&f=&av=
19:37 cait         I think that's what we are doing on the result and detail page now too
19:37 oleonard     So only one of that row of images will ever be "active" at one time
19:37 anitsirk     hi cait. thanks for your nice tweet
19:37 cait         not in staff, but in opac
19:37 gmcharlt     oleonard: in an ordinary search, yes
19:37 cait         different code though - we thought it should be the same include for both when we first looked at it
19:38 cait         anitsirk: it's only true - I click on your twitter links every day :)
19:38 gmcharlt     there's a "metabib" type search that tries to group formats together; for that type of search, multiple material type icons may get lit up
19:38 cait         and it's even more exciting when I know the corner or the place in your photograph
19:38 oleonard     I'm picturing a row of images in which more than one is active based on what different types of items are attached
19:38 anitsirk     something off topic: check out today's / tomorrow's (?) special Google logo: Jules Verne - it's moving and it's under water :-)
19:38 oleonard     But you'd have to do some kind of matching between broad material types and individual item types/collection codes
19:39 jcamins      oleonard: shiny!
19:39 jcamins      oleonard++
19:39 cait         can we make it a sys pref?
19:39 * cait       hides
19:39 oleonard     jcamins: That link? Not me.
19:39 gmcharlt     oleonard: if it were based on items instead of bib values, could be done (or if it were diving a lot more deeply in fixed fields that could encode multipe formats)
19:40 jcamins      oleonard: I was picturing your implementation of that for Koha.
19:42 cait         hm, can't access the link
19:42 cait         running into a timeout
19:42 oleonard     jcamins: I'm curious: Is your client dissatisfied with the material type icons offered by the XSLT results view?
19:42 oleonard     jcamins: I'm curious what information isn't displayed by the material type icons that they would want to see
19:43 jcamins      oleonard: we just introduced XSLT results view to this client. It helps, but they want the icons larger.
19:43 jcamins      And to be able to differentiate downloadable MP3s versus downloadable other things.
19:43 jcamins      Based on the 007.
19:44 oleonard     jcamins: We've always had to have XSLT turned off because our MARC data is wrong so much of the time :(
19:45 jcamins      Heh. Sounds about right.
19:45 cait         oleonard: I think there was a syspref to hide the icons in those cases
19:45 cait         or hide them in general from the xslt view
19:45 oleonard     True. But I'm not sure how much we gain if we leave out the icons.
19:46 jcamins      oleonard: direct links to downloadable resources.
19:47 oleonard     anyone else having trouble connecting to git?
19:47 cait         hm not sure
19:48 cait         hm, yes
19:48 mtj          oleonard: works ok for me
19:48 cait         ah, now it worked. I did a git pull and it took a little while to start
19:48 sekjal       oleonard:  git pull just worked for me
19:49 oleonard     Weird. "fatal: unable to connect a socket" is what I get
19:50 sekjal       oleonard: verify which remote?
19:50 oleonard     git.koha-community.org[0: 174.143.233.17]
19:51 sekjal       hmmm
20:04 jcamins      When an item is transferred between branches, it needs to be discharged before it shows up as having arrived at the destination library, right?
20:06 oleonard     When an item is transferred its holdingbranch is set to that of the destination
20:07 oleonard     I consider this to be wrong
20:08 jcamins      Hm.
20:09 jcamins      Any idea how it could happen that the holdingbranch is not changed?
20:09 oleonard     What are the circumstances?
20:10 jcamins      The staff client says "In transit," and the books were sent from the first library to the second, but they can't discharge the books at the second library.
20:11 schuster2    did they check it in?
20:11 jcamins      schuster2: they tried and were told they couldn't.
20:12 oleonard     Sent as in did a transfer or sent as in checked in at the first branch and Koha initiated an automatic transfer?
20:12 jcamins      The former.
20:12 schuster2    What message do they get when they check it in?
20:13 schuster2    How many branches are in the system?  Maybe they sent it to the wrong branch.
20:13 jcamins      "CANNOT
20:13 jcamins      CHECK IN.  This item must be returned to home library."
20:13 jcamins      I don't think so.
20:14 schuster2    Independant branches on?
20:14 jcamins      I think so, yes.
20:14 jcamins      (but I'm confirming that)
20:15 schuster2    I'm not sure how that all works with independant branches...  Can they share stuff?
20:15 oleonard     Could the item not have the homebranch is should?
20:16 jcamins      I think it was IndependantBranches.
20:17 jcamins      Ummm... has anyone else noticed that IndependantBranches is spelled wrong?
20:18 jcamins      I had the spelling of "independent" right the first time.
20:18 gmcharlt     jcamins: there's a long-standing bug
20:18 gmcharlt     with an argument that we English-speaking folks are the ones spelling it incorrectly ... according to the French ;)
20:18 jcamins      Ah.
20:19 oleonard     In that case "Branches" is spelled wrong ;)
20:20 cait         or we rename it to UnabhängigeBibliotheken ;)
20:20 gmcharlt     s/IndependantBranches/SYSPREF_23445/, perhaps? :)
20:20 jwagner      Bad girl, cait. Bad
20:20 cait         huh?
20:21 jwagner      remaining things :-)
20:21 jwagner      s/remaining/renaming/
20:21 * cait       is confused
20:21 jcamins      jwagner: at least it would be spelled correctly in *some* language then.
20:21 * jwagner    was referring to your threat to rename Branches
20:22 jwagner      Thought that's what translations were for...Maybe we need an English translation for that one?
20:23 cait         ok, confused enough to go to bed, reading my perl book
20:23 cait         bye all
20:25 jwagner      Come back, cait!  I didn't mean to drive you away!!!
20:25 * jwagner    thinks maybe I'd better leave too -- getting a little too slap-happy....
21:24 jcamins      Good night, #koha
22:55 sekjal       cheers, #koha
23:27 hudsonbot    Starting build 97 for job Koha_3.2.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
23:27 huginn       New commit(s) kohagit32: Updating history docs <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=9ed4374971a59b280270b3b96677c1f9b829671e> / Bug 5700: MT4004 : additem.pl Some Status were not defaulted to the correct value... <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=853246b1969fcf2039518a502b4808fd3b030c88> / Bug 5699: don't discard $3 when building a record (UNIMARC specific) <http://git.koha-community.org/
23:50 hudsonbot    Project Koha_3.2.x build #97: SUCCESS in 22 min: http://hudson.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.2.x/97/
23:50 hudsonbot    * Henri-Damien LAURENT: Bug 5690
23:50 hudsonbot    * Owen Leonard: Fix for Bug 5115, Tags JavaScript includes many untranslatable strings
23:50 hudsonbot    * Owen Leonard: Fix for Bug 5689 - System preference notifications are not translatable
23:50 hudsonbot    * Owen Leonard: Fix for Bug 5532 - sysprefs editor should show names of saved prefs
23:50 hudsonbot    * Chris Cormack: Bug 5691 - Delete all items respects independentbranches system preferences
23:50 hudsonbot    * Paul Poulain: Bug 5699: don't discard $3 when building a record (UNIMARC specific)
23:50 hudsonbot    * Paul Poulain: Bug 5700: MT4004 : additem.pl Some Status were not defaulted to the correct value Status 0 was lost because test was done on value and not on the fact that a value was defined or not. when value is 0 then it was not used as default value for
23:50 hudsonbot    * Chris Cormack: Updating history docs